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#Post#: 12053--------------------------------------------------
Leaving Egypt
By: Justaname Date: May 1, 2016, 2:15 pm
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This is taken from the study on www.biblegateway.com/
I can't find anywhere where it says that only one fifth of the
Israelites came out with Moses, and four fifths stayed back!!!
Have you heard that before from your Rabbi friend?
So what happened to those who stayed back? ( if this is
true...it totally blows my mind, as we would have thought that
something that important, Moses would mention in Exodus)
I presume if they didn't believe Moses, then they wouldn't have
killed the lamb, so lost their elder sons.
BUT, if that happened, one would think there would be great
repentance, as they would have seen God was speaking through
Moses to them. And they had disobeyed. How come they didn't
then run after Moses when their elder sons died? I just can't
get my head around all this.
Quote:-
The story of the Exodus comes down to one action. According to
Jewish tradition, four-fifths of the Israelites did not leave
Egypt. They weren’t ready to step out in faith and follow
God, through His servant Moses, into the desert and an unknown
fate. But for those who did escape the brutal clutches of the
Egyptians, it all came down to following this one command:
“. . . all the members of the community of Israel must
slaughter them at twilight. Then they are to take some of the
blood and put it on the sides and tops of the doorframes of the
houses where they eat the lambs.”
#Post#: 12055--------------------------------------------------
Re: Leaving Egypt
By: Kerry Date: May 1, 2016, 3:12 pm
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I'd never heard that. At the moment, I don't believe only one
fifth left. I'll try to look into it. So far as I can see
right now, it's based on what vowels are put into a word that is
usually taken to mean "armed." A Rabbi using other vowels said
it meant one fifth.
#Post#: 12064--------------------------------------------------
Re: Leaving Egypt
By: Kerry Date: May 2, 2016, 11:10 pm
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The verse in question is Exodus 13:18 and the word in question
is chamush. The KJV translates it as "harnessed."
Exodus 13:18 But God led the people about, through the way of
the wilderness of the Red sea: and the children of Israel went
up harnessed out of the land of Egypt.
R. Ishmael wrote a midrash or commentary saying if you supplied
different vowels, the word could mean "one-fifth." I suppose
that could be true. The original texts have only consonants;
and it's fair game to think the vowels might not be right.
But look at the other three places this word is used and it's
assumed the vowel is "a" and not "o":
Joshua 1:14 Your wives, your little ones, and your cattle, shall
remain in the land which Moses gave you on this side Jordan; but
ye shall pass before your brethren armed, all the mighty men of
valour, and help them;
Joshua 4:12 And the children of Reuben, and the children of
Gad, and half the tribe of Manasseh, passed over armed before
the children of Israel, as Moses spake unto them:
Judges 7:11 And thou shalt hear what they say; and afterward
shall thine hands be strengthened to go down unto the host. Then
went he down with Phurah his servant unto the outside of the
armed men that were in the host.
The "fifth" -- "chomesh" is found once:
Gen 47:26 And Joseph made it a law over the land of Egypt unto
this day, that Pharaoh should have the fifth part; except the
land of the priests only, which became not Pharaoh's.
So which is it in Exodus 13:18 ? Look at the context -- I think
the context, being about war, means the word is "armed" not
"one-fifth":
Exodus 13:17 And it came to pass, when Pharaoh had let the
people go, that God led them not through the way of the land of
the Philistines, although that was near; for God said, Lest
peradventure the people repent when they see war, and they
return to Egypt:
18 But God led the people about, through the way of the
wilderness of the Red sea: and the children of Israel went up
harnessed <armed> out of the land of Egypt.
I also think Abraham would have felt left down, if not lied to,
if only one fifth of his offspring came out.
Genesis 15:15 And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou
shalt be buried in a good old age.
16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again:
for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.
I haven't been able to find Rabbi Ishmael's commentary; but
different Rabbis have different views -- meaning some are right
and some wrong. Some have the right tradition while others
invented traditions of men. It makes the Talmud a hard book to
study; but if you follow the Tradition of Hillel and Gamaliel,
you're probably on safe ground since Jesus quoted Hillel at
times. I'm not sure about Rabbi Ishmael.
As well, the Rabbis often write cryptically, and perhaps Rabbi
Ishmael was writing figuratively. If you were to tell me that
spiritually only one-fifth of Israel came out of Egypt, I could
believe that. I'd even say that number was high. Their
physical bodies came out, but did they?
I believe God took them all out. He did His part, fulfilling
His promise to Abraham in a non-limited way; but the people of
Israel, even after being taken out, failed. In that lifetime,
they failed. Yet as Paul said, all Israel will be saved. God
won't give up on them until they are all saved.
There may be a lesson for us in this too. Jesus may have done
his part in the matter of our salvation, rescuing us from the
evils of this world -- but what happens if we wish to return to
those evils? Again, I think such people will eventually be
saved -- all -- but their carcases might have to fall in the
wilderness first like those of Israel.
There are so many ways of reading the beloved son and Egypt
verse.
Hosea 11:1 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called
my son out of Egypt.
That's the verse. Israel is said to be the son that was called
out of Egypt. Yet we read:
Matthew 2:15 And was there until the death of Herod: that it
might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet,
saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.
And it can refer to you and me too, I think.
#Post#: 12065--------------------------------------------------
Re: Leaving Egypt
By: Kerry Date: May 3, 2016, 12:02 am
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I also don't think many people of Israel would have felt safe to
stay. The Egyptians wanted them out!
Exodus 12:33 And the Egyptians were urgent upon the people, that
they might send them out of the land in haste; for they said, We
be all dead men.
#Post#: 12068--------------------------------------------------
Re: Leaving Egypt
By: Justaname Date: May 3, 2016, 2:18 pm
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Yes totally. Excellent thoughts.
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