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#Post#: 11469--------------------------------------------------
The Comforter ?
By: twinc Date: January 4, 2016, 1:42 pm
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imho it seems because it is nowhere stated - it is not really
understood exactly why the Comforter was needed or sent - twinc
#Post#: 11471--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Comforter ?
By: Kerry Date: January 6, 2016, 6:07 am
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You think it's not stated? I thought it was.
I thought the Comforter came to correct man's opinions -- about
sin, righteousness and judgment, no? The promise was that the
Spirit would teach the Apostles the truth -- some of which Jesus
could not teach them while he was on the earth because they
weren't strong enough to take it then. And if they forgot
something Jesus had told them, the Spirit would remind them.
John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for
you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not
come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of
righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no
more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear
them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide
you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but
whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew
you things to come.
#Post#: 11472--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Comforter ?
By: twinc Date: January 6, 2016, 2:49 pm
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[quote author=Kerry link=topic=1043.msg11471#msg11471
date=1452082071]
You think it's not stated? I thought it was.
I thought the Comforter came to correct man's opinions -- about
sin, righteousness and judgment, no? The promise was that the
Spirit would teach the Apostles the truth -- some of which Jesus
could not teach them while he was on the earth because they
weren't strong enough to take it then. And if they forgot
something Jesus had told them, the Spirit would remind them.
John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for
you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not
come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of
righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no
more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear
them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide
you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but
whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew
you things to come.
[/quote][quote author=Kerry link=topic=1043.msg11471#msg11471
date=1452082071]
You think it's not stated? I thought it was.
I thought the Comforter came to correct man's opinions -- about
sin, righteousness and judgment, no? The promise was that the
Spirit would teach the Apostles the truth -- some of which Jesus
could not teach them while he was on the earth because they
weren't strong enough to take it then. And if they forgot
something Jesus had told them, the Spirit would remind them.
John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for
you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not
come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of
righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no
more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear
them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide
you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but
whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew
you things to come.
[/quote][quote author=Kerry link=topic=1043.msg11471#msg11471
date=1452082071]
You think it's not stated? I thought it was.
I thought the Comforter came to correct man's opinions -- about
sin, righteousness and judgment, no? The promise was that the
Spirit would teach the Apostles the truth -- some of which Jesus
could not teach them while he was on the earth because they
weren't strong enough to take it then. And if they forgot
something Jesus had told them, the Spirit would remind them.
John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for
you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not
come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of
righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no
more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear
them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide
you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but
whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew
you things to come.
[/quote]
the actual answer is so simple and obvious it is overlooked -
twinc
#Post#: 11476--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Comforter ?
By: HOLLAND Date: January 6, 2016, 3:58 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Kerry link=topic=1043.msg11471#msg11471
date=1452082071]
You think it's not stated? I thought it was.
I thought the Comforter came to correct man's opinions -- about
sin, righteousness and judgment, no? The promise was that the
Spirit would teach the Apostles the truth -- some of which Jesus
could not teach them while he was on the earth because they
weren't strong enough to take it then. And if they forgot
something Jesus had told them, the Spirit would remind them.
John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for
you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not
come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of
righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no
more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear
them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide
you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but
whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew
you things to come.
[/quote]
I would agree, Kerry.
Peace be with you!
#Post#: 11478--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Comforter ?
By: Kerry Date: January 7, 2016, 6:36 am
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[quote author=twinc link=topic=1043.msg11472#msg11472
date=1452113346]
the actual answer is so simple and obvious it is overlooked -
twinc
[/quote]
An advocate advocates. A comforter comforts. Right?
The Greek word, of course, means someone who stands by your side
-- to support you like a lawyer does. Jesus went away
physically but sent the Spirit to be with the disciples. I'm
not sure "comforter" is the best translation. The Douay-Rheims
translation may be better, leaving it untranslated as
"Paraclete."
#Post#: 11485--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Comforter ?
By: HOLLAND Date: January 11, 2016, 9:01 pm
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[quote author=Kerry link=topic=1043.msg11478#msg11478
date=1452170175]
An advocate advocates. A comforter comforts. Right?
The Greek word, of course, means someone who stands by your side
-- to support you like a lawyer does. Jesus went away
physically but sent the Spirit to be with the disciples. I'm
not sure "comforter" is the best translation. The Douay-Rheims
translation may be better, leaving it untranslated as
"Paraclete."
[/quote]
On this, Kerry, I would say that I've seen Paraclete translated
as either Comforter or Advocate. I understand that there is
good textual basis for doing so for either translation. If we
have sufficient advocacy and comfort through the Holy Spirit, I
do not see the need of any recourse to others such as the Virgin
Mary.
Peace be with you!
#Post#: 11488--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Comforter ?
By: Kerry Date: January 13, 2016, 12:19 am
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[quote author=HOLLAND link=topic=1043.msg11485#msg11485
date=1452567687]
On this, Kerry, I would say that I've seen Paraclete translated
as either Comforter or Advocate. I understand that there is
good textual basis for doing so for either translation. If we
have sufficient advocacy and comfort through the Holy Spirit, I
do not see the need of any recourse to others such as the Virgin
Mary.
Peace be with you!
[/quote]This sounds similar to the Protestant idea of "me and
Jesus". I would fear that if I thought i had enough advocacy
of the Spirit on my own, I might not be able to be corrected if
I veered off. I could think I was being guided by the Spirit.
That could be the path to schisms and divisions.
Think of the concept of the Quaker "sense of the meeting."
That sounds safer to me than putting too much faith in my own
relationship with God by myself.
#Post#: 11490--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Comforter ?
By: HOLLAND Date: January 14, 2016, 8:22 pm
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[quote author=Kerry link=topic=1043.msg11488#msg11488
date=1452665970]
This sounds similar to the Protestant idea of "me and Jesus".
I would fear that if I thought i had enough advocacy of the
Spirit on my own, I might not be able to be corrected if I
veered off. I could think I was being guided by the Spirit.
That could be the path to schisms and divisions.
Think of the concept of the Quaker "sense of the meeting."
That sounds safer to me than putting too much faith in my own
relationship with God by myself.
[/quote]
I agree, Kerry. We must never be too forward in our speaking of
our Spiritual leadings but must exercise circumspection in that
we must realize the danger of falling into error. We can never
grow in the Spirit if we refuse to acknowledge our errors.
Peace be with you!
#Post#: 11493--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Comforter ?
By: HOLLAND Date: January 17, 2016, 2:38 pm
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[quote author=twinc link=topic=1043.msg11469#msg11469
date=1451936547]
imho it seems because it is nowhere stated - it is not really
understood exactly why the Comforter was needed or sent - twinc
[/quote]
This puzzles me because we both know that the Holy Spirit as
Comforter is revealed in the Gospel of John.
I mean no disrespect, twinc, for your Catholic faith, but
doesn't it cause you anguish that there are now many churches
and congregations in which the minister leading the
congregation, is an ex-Catholic and much, if not most, of that
same congregation, are also ex-Catholics? They left because
they did not obtain the Spiritual sustenance that they were
looking for and needing in the Catholic church.
I should think that, surely, we need a Comforter and Advocate
with the Father.
Peace be with you!
#Post#: 23678--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Comforter ?
By: twinc Date: August 10, 2019, 4:07 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
totally misunderstood that unlike us today they did not have a
bible and concordances for recall and ready reference and
remembrance but had to rely on the Holy Spirit for guidance etc
- twinc
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