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Return to: War Declarations!
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#Post#: 3765--------------------------------------------------
Stench of War Comes on The Wind
By: WisenGrim Date: January 10, 2015, 1:58 pm
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Having been gone for the holidays I logged in to find ground
zero overrun with players trying in one way or another to claim
the area for themselves. Now, I respect the bravery, pluck, and
downright balls of these fine folks to stake such a bold claim
but I found it problematic as I was shot while doing basic
looting. This of course was entirely legitimate but got me
thinking that my standard loot ground was being wrested from me
at gunpoint. No doubt that was the point.
Well . . . . we can't be havin' that! I will start this
conflict simply enough. Those holed up in ground zero MUST be
removed. My opening volley is this: having built in the zero
zone all players should be aware there are no protections
offered there of ANY kind. All looting, shooting, blowing up,
tearing down or general mayhem is permitted in that zone without
regard for stop signs prefabs, or keystones. I thus call on all
players to begin to process of removing these folks from their
comfy abodes within the city. I also call on the Zorg to rise!
#Post#: 3766--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stench of War Comes on The Wind
By: h0tr0d Date: January 10, 2015, 2:37 pm
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well, I would only agree so far as to say griefing is not
allowed. The rules still apply,o you can't tear player's
buildings down for the sake of tearing them down simply b/c they
are in GZ. That hasn't changed as far as I am aware, although I
may welcome the challenge and try that as an experiment if it
comes. It would be an interesting challenge to say players could
tear down buildings there even if a base, simply b/c GZ is used
by so many. With that said, I think the intent is to make GZ
no-pvp with the next build.
And tbh we don't kill everyone that comes in GZ, or hunt
everyone we hear. We just ask that if we do people realize it is
pvp.
We also intend to hoist a flag there, as it will be our main
base. We do not worry about if someone destroys land claim
blocks we may/may not have placed around the city and people
replace them, as they are not our main base.
TL;DR
I don't believe you can destroy people's bases for no other
reason than to destroy it. Stop signs mean nothing and prefabs
can't be stop-signed I assure you. As far as land claims I
believe if it is someone's main base you can remove them
absolutely and raid. But "anything goes" is not permitted.
#Post#: 3767--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stench of War Comes on The Wind
By: Aknot Date: January 10, 2015, 2:42 pm
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[quote author=WisenGrim link=topic=453.msg3765#msg3765
date=1420919924]
My opening volley is this: having built in the zero zone all
players should be aware there are no protections offered there
of ANY kind. All looting, shooting, blowing up, tearing down or
general mayhem is permitted in that zone without regard for stop
signs prefabs, or keystones. I thus call on all players to
begin to process of removing these folks from their comfy abodes
within the city. I also call on the Zorg to rise!
[/quote]
See that is what I always thought too. Any building in any
prefab offered no protection. However it appears it has changed.
So you can only make a hole big enough to get in and knock over
a glass jar or two.
#Post#: 3768--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stench of War Comes on The Wind
By: WisenGrim Date: January 10, 2015, 3:23 pm
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Hmmm. We I certainly want to work within the rules. But I
thought GZ was open season no holds barred. A truly lawless
place. If that is not the case it presents a problem. If folks
move in, which is totally cool, they take command of the
landscape there, also totally cool. But if I can't bring your
tower down, I can't reopen the city for my own looting. Do you
see the conflict?
#Post#: 3769--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stench of War Comes on The Wind
By: h0tr0d Date: January 10, 2015, 3:50 pm
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3. Any bases/structures built in the central city hub are
subject to immediate attack/raid/PVP. Stop signs mean nothing in
the central city or it's immediate surroundings. You cannot
protect a prefab (Existing building) from raids. If you take
over a prefab, stop signs are meaningless and you are opening
yourself up to being raided.
5. When raiding bases that are not protected by stop signs,
only destroy what is necessary to gain access. When looting,
only take what you need such as some food, water, ammo and a
weapon and only if you desperately need it to survive. Do NOT
clean "someone out". If you are not certain what is acceptable
behavior ask yourself this - "Will this be a dick move?". If the
answer is yes then don't do it.
No Aknot, nothing has "changed." That is how it has always been,
at least since I joined. Prefabs only mean you cannot stop sign
them. It isn't about "you can only knock over a glass jar or
two" anymore than it is "if I sneeze at certain players they PM
madman crying bloody murder." Although the second has seemed
true on occasion. Remember when one build someone destroyed
every munitions box in GZ? We could still do so now but we want
people to come for possible fights.
As it stands now, and always has, just because someone has a
prefab does not mean you can raze it to the ground. Just because
it is in GZ does not mean you can raze it to the ground. This
build seems unique in that people mostly stayed close to GZ and
we decided to occupy it to ramp up PVP.
I do see the dilemna WisenGrim and I would be in favor of
discussing GZ as being no holds-barred. But madman's intent is
on the next build make GZ entirely PVE. Aknot can speak to that.
But we really have no need of loot, I am sure most don't, and if
i was playing a survival game and I was alone/smaller group...I
would avoid large cities and only venture in with care.
Especially if I knew it was occupied.
Making GZ open to any and everything certainly would make it
interesting, and I'd be for that. But while you were away there
was a movement to make it less PVP and that side won.
There are other cities to loot, and there are other ways
(plenty) to get loot. We have taken over several structures in
order to help secure our area, but by no means do we have land
claims on every block. I would hope that people like Grim who
wish to PVP/and raid the established buildings there would do
so. Our duels with The Zorg have been fun so far, amicable and
complimentary. For the record we got raided (we left a side open
so it could be raided), and CMonster played it up as cabinet
looting. If they had blocked up that side and forced us to
destroy it I wouldn't have cared, but for that record I
mentioned...we did not seek retaliation or revenge after being
hit.
I think letting prefabs be destroyed is interesting, but
allowing bases to be destroyed even if inside GZ is potentially
a slippery slope. I am not all together opposed to it, but I am
boggled that everyone thought GZ is anything goes. I'll go look
at the rules again.
For the record I'd also like people who raid bases, even though
they have stop signs, lose that protection. Just as if I build a
tower near your base and harass you, I would expect you to be
allowed to raze it as it isn't my legitimate base and you should
be able to defend yourself. I think it's common sense there.
#Post#: 3770--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stench of War Comes on The Wind
By: WisenGrim Date: January 10, 2015, 4:42 pm
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I appreciate what your saying and you are right, loot is not the
issue, there is more than enough of that to go around.
Apparently I misunderstood the rules for GZ but my
misunderstanding is probably based in an old ruleset that
predates your arrival on the server. The server had originally
set up GZ as one of two towns where PvP was allowed. They were
the only places on the map that were allowed to be Pvp and it
was no holds barred for structures as well.
#Post#: 3771--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stench of War Comes on The Wind
By: Aknot Date: January 10, 2015, 4:44 pm
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See i look at it this way:
I take a prefab for what it is. It is part of the game that I
can interact with. Just because someone slapped down a KS does
not change the fact of what it is. Especially when it is a part
of the game that houses 'loot'.
There can be a line (those little corner bldgs with
sinks/lockers) but when it comes to Apts, Police Stations, etc.
I should be able to go in and remove your Kstone and everything
in there.
So where the rule states "You cannot protect a prefab (Existing
building) from raids." That means you can only go in and "take
what you need such as some food, water, ammo and a weapon and
only if you desperately need it to survive. Do NOT clean
"someone out". If you are not certain what is acceptable
behavior ask yourself this - "Will this be a dick move?". If the
answer is yes then don't do it." Which is to me only an entrance
big enough to get in and out and knock over a glass jar or two.
:D
A dick move (and no dont take that the wrong way.. ;) ) is
someone taking over a POI/PreFab like an Apt, Police Station
etc. WITH the ways the rules are set and not expecting to be
ransacked and looted of everything.
Now if someone took one of those empty or almost empty lots
(garage hint/hint) and built placing stop signs I wouldn't bat
an eyelash. The person is looking for a challenge with the Zed
attacks and scavengers of GZ, not a dick move but if someone
went in and destroyed their place dick move.... within the rules
sorta but dick move.
People should not be raiding bases if they have stop signs on
their own base... UNLESS of course they are raiding a base that
is using a prefab or in GZ.......
#Post#: 3773--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stench of War Comes on The Wind
By: h0tr0d Date: January 10, 2015, 5:25 pm
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I didn't make the rules. I actually read and try and understand
them by asking intent.
#Post#: 3782--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stench of War Comes on The Wind
By: CMonster Date: January 11, 2015, 4:38 pm
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The presence of the OBEY tower in Ground Zero was a delightful
revelation for myself, in as much as it provided an immediate
PVP place with a clan who generally has players online.
Therefore I received this recon information with delight, and
put a raid on the top of the "to do" list.
I was hoping to incite war so that the Zorg could motivate their
respective militants for general activity, but the OBEY clan has
proven to be a shrewd collection of diplomats who have carefully
angled their words. As yet the Zorg have still been unable to
reacquire their sham sandwiches, but we have plans to help make
that happen.
Couple days ago, BP capped one of our crew when he was out
gathering scrap iron, which resulted in a gunnery duel between
BP and myself. We hit each other numerous times, but he finally
got me square in the face. I should have kept moving, but I was
also in position to do the same to him, but with a fatal
split-second delay. Ended the day with a satisfaction at having
the pleasure of dueling with the OBEY, and look forward to my
chance at redemption.
Also, when we went into the recent raid I understood that none
of the structures were given the safeguards of stop signs.
However, in the interest of keeping the OBEY clan intrigued
enough to remain online so they can fear the possible
retaliation of the mighty Zorg, we refrained from attacking the
main tower (which was not a prefab), destroying more than was
needed to feel the satisfaction of entry (Except when Fillman
tripped and accidentally dropped six TNT on the trestle bridge),
or altering the environment in such a way that it could be
interpreted as griefing.
The beautiful thing is, I look forward to logging on so Zorg can
run patrols into GZ and cap OBEY members as they go about their
business. Of course Zorg claim the entire map in the general
sense, but we are more than willing to coordinate with people
who respect our mission to unite mankind under the enlightened
unity of the Horde.
#Post#: 3786--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stench of War Comes on The Wind
By: h0tr0d Date: January 11, 2015, 4:57 pm
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heh nice. I guess rhafl and Iitay didn't tell you about the day
earlier:)
Just to be clear we aren't saying we cannot be raided, just that
being a prefab or in GZ doesn't mean you can lay waste to bases
(as it currently stands). I have long been under the impression
people wanted GZ to be PVE so players could scavenge and new
players would not be killed instantly. I would submit that this
build has not yielded the problems prognosticators of doom have
prophesied.
The sky is not falling because of pvp in GZ, in fact I feel the
server has had more player interaction than ever before.
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