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Return to: "Ask the Basketball Ref"
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#Post#: 99141--------------------------------------------------
Mannford MS officiating
By: SportsFan_92_3 Date: January 13, 2024, 10:19 am
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The older male official at the Mannford Middle School today
spent a considerable amount of time talking with fans from both
sides of the stands, while the game was happening. At one point
he was almost in the Mannford side of the stands and turned
completely away from the game play that was ongoing. He either
needs to stop play to address the fans, or wait until a dead
ball. All this while the other official is trying to officiate
the play and it�s her first time to ref.
I asked him in the 1Q to watch elbows being thrown in the paint,
in front of him. He stopped play to come over and tell our 2
coaches that he wouldn�t call the elbows because they were
�retaliatory� due to the player being held by our defender. My
thought is, then call the hold, which I told him. Elbows
shouldn�t be thrown whether it�s retaliatory or not.
We lost by one point. A made free throw was taken off the score
because the shooter landed over the FT line. This is 3rd grade
rec. Every single FT shot in the game, the girls all landed on
or in front of the line. It was only called 1x, on a make for
us. Frustrating to have a point removed for something that is
normally allowed in 3G rec. Please clarify if the player must
land behind the FT line.
I talked to a Mannford coach after our game who said this same
official does most of their home games and he�s very
frustrating.
I know there is a shortage of refs. Someone from the INBC needs
to go watch a game or two and make their own determination on
whether or not this ref needs to be teaching a first time
official how to do the job.
#Post#: 99142--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mannford MS officiating
By: Director of Officials Date: January 13, 2024, 1:44 pm
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If you have some film you would like for me to review, please
send it to [email protected]
#Post#: 99143--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mannford MS officiating
By: SportsFan_92_3 Date: January 13, 2024, 2:08 pm
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Video of the elbows or of him standing with his back to the
ongoing game while he chastised the Mannford fans? I may have
some of the elbows. Thankfully it stopped after the 1Q. Either
way I�ve never heard of �retaliatory elbows� not being a foul in
10 years of coaching. Those were the words he used when he came
over to tell us �this isn�t my first rodeo�� My only request was
that he watch the elbows in the paint. I�m not sure what video
will prove. I didn�t video him telling us he wasn�t going to
call a foul for retaliation.
Are they regularly calling it a violation when a 3G rec FT
shooter lands on/over the FT line? We will need to coach our
girls to move back to make sure they don�t cross the line during
the shot. The gyms in Bixby don�t have a 12 foot FT line, so
that clearly isn�t enforced there. At 8-9 years old, we�re
really happy when they can make a 12-15 foot jumper, regardless
of where they land. There were probably 6-7 other FTs shot in
the game and it wasn�t called. All of them crossed over the line
during the shot.
Feel free to also reach out to the Mannford coaches. It was
pretty bad on both ends. The Mannford coach for the 9 AM game
commented to me that he was a little surprised when the ref was
almost in the Mannford stands while the game was being played.
#Post#: 99144--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mannford MS officiating
By: Director of Officials Date: January 13, 2024, 11:44 pm
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The video of the actual elbow(s) you were speaking of above or
the 6 other free throw line violations that were not called.
Anything you can provide would be very beneficial.
#Post#: 99145--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mannford MS officiating
By: SportsFan_92_3 Date: January 14, 2024, 2:45 pm
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You haven�t answered the question yet. In 3G rec, are we calling
it a violation when the shooter lands on or over the FT line in
the act of shooting? I don�t have video of it happening, is that
going to be consistently called? I�m not planning to file a
protest, even though we did end up losing by 1.
I can tell you with 100% confidence it happens on every single
FT in our games. It hasn�t been called this season, except for
1x.
Please advise.
#Post#: 99146--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mannford MS officiating
By: SportsFan_92_3 Date: January 14, 2024, 2:59 pm
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I�m checking for video although seeing the FT line on video
might be fairly difficult. We normally have a couple parents
videoing however I�m not sure how long they keep it when it
doesn�t involve their kid doing something like scoring a bucket
or making a good play.
I�m not trying to be difficult about the call but I do want it
to be consistent, as I know you do too. For our games in Bixby
the official is pretty much just guessing where 12 foot line is
so there isn�t any way to call it, but for our away games we
haven�t had it called.
#Post#: 99147--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mannford MS officiating
By: Director of Officials Date: January 14, 2024, 5:06 pm
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What answer are you looking for? You are blaming the officials
for calling something when there isn't a line clearly marked
like there is supposed to be. When you leave it up to
interpretation there will be inconsistencies. That is why I
asked for a video but I understand you may not have that. I
will talk to the officials involved about both the elbows and
the free throw lane violation(s)
#Post#: 99148--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mannford MS officiating
By: SportsFan_92_3 Date: January 19, 2024, 9:59 am
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When there is a line marked at 12 feet, are officials going to
call when an 8-9 year old steps on or over the line, in the act
of shooting a FT, a shooting violation? Sorry, my question
wasn�t clear enough. There is a line painted at Mannford.
Honestly I�m not sure it�s painted anywhere else but it has been
called 1x all season, on a made FT when we ended up losing by 1
point. He didn�t call the violation on the other 5-6 FT�s we
shot. Whether the FT is made or not, if he�s going to call it a
violation, at least be consistent.
I�m just asking for consistency. The official in Mannford was
ridiculous. The worst I�ve seen in 10 years. We will certainly
run more video to help everyone learn and get better. I wish we
had video of him turned talking to parents in the stands while
the game was being played.
At the same time so it doesn�t just seem like I�m complaining.
The officials we had at the Jenks rock gym on Jan 6 did a great
job. I went to both of them after the game and told them as
much. They had just officiated a game before ours between Jenks
HWPO and Skiatook where they had to kick a fan out for being a
jerk. The officials have a hard job and ridiculous
parents/coaches need to grow up. I�ve never, not once, had an
official stop the game in the 1Q and come to our bench to
lecture us about how experienced he is. He took away any
opportunity for us to ask questions or clarification on calls
that should be explained/answered. I haven�t mentioned up to
this point, he gave our HC a �formal warning� in the 3Q. The
only way we knew he got a �formal warning� was because we could
hear him tell the scorers table about it. He didn�t tell our HC.
When our HC asked why he got a warning, the official shut down
any questions.
I�ll start asking the official before the game if they are
calling the FT shooting violation. At least then we know what to
expect.
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