| Return Create A Forum - Home | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| Classical Theism | |
| https://classicaltheism.createaforum.com | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| ***************************************************** | |
| Return to: Philosophy | |
| ***************************************************** | |
| #Post#: 242-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Teleology in Nature | |
| By: Brian Date: October 12, 2020, 1:37 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| What are the best arguments for accepting teleology as a real | |
| feature of the natural world? Are there any good contemporary | |
| accounts/defenses of teleology in nature? | |
| #Post#: 245-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: Teleology in Nature | |
| By: ClassicalLiberal.Theist Date: October 28, 2020, 6:02 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| I guess it depends on whos definition of teleology you are | |
| working with. Teleolgy, to Aquinas, was just the fact that | |
| physical things have certain dispositions: ice melts when it | |
| gets too warm, wood burns, quantum particles don't decay into | |
| flowers but into other particles, etc. It seems to me this sort | |
| of teleolgy is self-evident, and you would have to reject nearly | |
| every piece of scientific literature out there, which seems like | |
| a harsh conclusion and unwarrented skepticism. If you are | |
| working with Paley's defintion, the one which is often employed, | |
| then I have a bit less to say. In my opinion, the intelligent | |
| design folks might (might is an important word. I wouldn't | |
| defend their positions too strongly) have something going for | |
| them when it comes to the existence of the first single celled | |
| organism. It seems pretty unlikely on a purely naturalistic | |
| worldview that such a thing would arise. The best evidence of | |
| teleolgy in nature, in my opinion, would be the fine tuning | |
| argument; however, a multiverse hypothesis seems to me more | |
| probable than a theistic one. If you really want to know more | |
| about this, I would ask Atno. Personally, I think teleological | |
| arguments, although interesting, don't get very far. | |
| #Post#: 249-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: Teleology in Nature | |
| By: Dominik Date: December 1, 2020, 6:12 am | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| CLT, do you think the fifth way doesn't work? Why? I like these | |
| teleological arguments, although I have a tendency with | |
| supplementing them with the PSR | |
| #Post#: 250-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: Teleology in Nature | |
| By: RomanJoe Date: December 1, 2020, 4:16 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| Teleology has always seemed evident to me. It's the common sense | |
| view--beings have metaphysical dispositions and these | |
| dispositions aren't arbitrary or random. | |
| Teleology and essentialism go hand in hand. I think the | |
| conscious whole we call the human being, or even the conscious | |
| whole we call the animal, have persuaded me of some kind of | |
| essentialism. And by some kind I mean a sort of Aristotelian top | |
| down approach. The fact that matter can be rendered into an | |
| irreducible conscious whole, capable of qualia-laden, and | |
| rational behavior that outstrips the bare capabilities of its | |
| material parts, tells me that there is some organizing | |
| principle, something that baptizes the otherwise disparate | |
| world-stuff into wholes greater than their parts. | |
| Organizing principle, nature, essence, whatever you call it, is | |
| defined by its natural potentials. Humans are rational animals. | |
| Find a mature human whose potential for rational thought is | |
| somehow thwarted and we call him mentally handicapped, insane, | |
| etc. Why? Because there's an expectation of a certain | |
| metaphysical disposition, a disposition that humans exclusively | |
| engage in, e.g. rational thought. Humans aren't snap shots, | |
| nothing is. We know the quiddity of something by the potentials | |
| exclusive to it. This is teleology, an aim beyond a being | |
| towards a determinate set of potentials. | |
| #Post#: 251-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: Teleology in Nature | |
| By: ClassicalLiberal.Theist Date: December 1, 2020, 5:30 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| @dominik | |
| I think the fifth way probably works. I am not very well-read on | |
| the topic, but I have no objections to the sort of teleology | |
| used in that argument. My issue is with the contemporary notion | |
| of extrinisic teleology (like the ID movement's), not the | |
| thomist notion of intrinsic teleology. | |
| ***************************************************** |