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Christian Deference Forum
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Return to: Universal Reconciliation (UR)
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#Post#: 294--------------------------------------------------
Is the lake of fire "remedial"?
By: lesjude Date: August 16, 2012, 2:03 pm
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Those that say yes believe everyone who ever lived
including Satan and his demons will be reconciled to God. Here
are some of the scripture used to support this belief. They say
God is not angry with His creation ("For God so loved the
world," John 3:16), but has already reconciled the world to
Himself ("God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself," 2
Corinthians 5:19). Therefore, all creation will be delivered
(Romans 8:21), and all men be drawn to Christ ("If I be lifted
up...I will draw all men unto me." John 12:32) and ultimately
saved and resurrected ("For as in Adam all die, even so in
Christ shall all be made alive" 1 Corinthians 15:22). Those in
punishment will ultimately be brought to repentance (2 Peter
3:9), as God's wrath will not abide forever (Isaiah 57:16), and
eventually every knee will bow to God (Romans 14:11), and
confess Jesus as Lord.
Those that say no to this question believe punishment is
eternal for all who die without receiving Christ in this life
and there is no second chance for those not in Christ.
To cite John 3:16 to prove that God loves and will save the
whole world clearly ignores the condition for salvation set
forth it the verse which is faith in Christ ("whosoever
believes"), and ignores John 3:36
New King James Version (NKJV)
36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who
does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of
God abides on him.�
If the sinner "shall not see life" and the "wrath of God
abides on him" it is obvious that universal salvation cannot be
gotten from John chapter 3.
There is an abundance of Scripture that sets forth clearly the
eternal punishment of the lost. Jesus taught that the abode of
the wicked dead is a place of eternal punishment where�Their
worm does not die, And the fire is not quenched." (Mark 9:44,
46, and 48), and the Lake of Fire where the lost, including
Satan and his demons, will be cast which is a place of eternal
torment:
Revelation 14:9-11
New King James Version (NKJV)
9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice,
�If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his
mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also
drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full
strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented
with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and
in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment
ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night,
who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the
mark of his name.�
Revelation 20:10
New King James Version (NKJV)
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire
and brimstone where[a] the beast and the false prophet are. And
they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Revelation 20:13-15
New King James Version (NKJV)
13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades
delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged,
each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were
cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.[a] 15 And
anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the
lake of fire.
Here is scripture that says punishment is eternal, not remedial,
nor will the sinner see the error of his ways and repent.
Revelation 22:11
New King James Version (NKJV)
11 He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy,
let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be
righteous[a] still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.�
AND the sinner is forever forbidden access to the eternal city:
Revelation 22:14-15
New King James Version (NKJV)
14 Blessed are those who do His commandments,[a] that they may
have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the
gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and
sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves
and practices a lie.
Luke 16:26
New King James Version (NKJV)
26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great
gulf fixed, (between the saved and unsaved) so that those who
want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there
pass to us.�
There is no basis that all will ultimately saved in 1
Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all
shall be made alive.
It is true that in Adam all die as all men are descended from
Adam, BUT all men are certainly NOT in Christ. Only those that
receive Christ in this life are said to have eternal life and
the hope of the resurrection of the righteous. John 3:16, 36,
Galatians 3:26-29, 2 Corinthians 5:17.
[b]
It is true that all men will be resurrected but contrary to UR,
all will not be resurrected to life.
John 5:29
New King James Version (NKJV)
29 and come forth�those who have done good, to the resurrection
of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of
condemnation.
Revelation 20:5-6
New King James Version (NKJV)
5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand
years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed
and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such
the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God
and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
Daniel 12:2
New King James Version (NKJV)
2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall
awake,
Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Matthew 25:46
New King James Version (NKJV)
46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the
righteous into eternal life.
#Post#: 297--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is the lake of fire "remedial"?
By: clothed-in-white Date: August 16, 2012, 4:07 pm
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yes, i agree with lesjude. :)
Not because any church taught me about hell but because the NT
tells of this situation in detail so none are confused nor
dismayed.
Salvation has to be WORKED OUT here on earth IN FEAR AND IN
TREMBLING, so we escape the wrath of God and Jesus who would
know all things never even hinted at a 2nd chance age long
[whatever that means] salvation after death.
Men try to think for God and then tell HIM how it is.
Now i can understand rogertutt's sad testimony i.e. how he was
so badly beaten as a child and went into depression for years,
as he thought God was abusive like his own father by placing
people in ''hell''- never to realise that ALL MEN are given
opportunities for believing Father for salvation.
Each one is not put into hell for no reason but deserves it as
does satan and his angels.
the state of all men - was to be delivered to hell.
they needed a SAVIOUR to stop this from happening who would die
as a sacrifice for them here or as a lamb who is slain. This
act of sacrifice is our doorway opened and our return BACK from
the punishment we all deserved.
People fail to understand this awesome message - WE ALL DESERVED
DEATH - HELL - SEPARATION because of 1 man Adam and his choices.
We did not personally choose to be a sinner and a rebel, but our
forefather Adam did as now we live in HIS LEGACY to us.... :'(
:'( :'(
WE NOW CAN MAKE OUR PERSONAL CHOICE - I.E #1 - to stay with
Adam's choice and die or #2- BELIEVE IN THE 1 WHO WAS SENT AND
LIVE.
That seems pretty straight forewards
choice 1
choice 2
what is very interesting is In many places, the Bible says that
Sin cannot bear to be in the presence of the Holy God
demons shriek and beg for mercy, men try to hide, even the
sin-tainted Earth itself will flee from God's presence in the
end times.
Father will never condemn anyone unjustly, but will be faithful
to reveal Himself to anyone who looks for His salvation.
let us lift the veil of darkness for all men by being an example
of divine light and life and stop living in vanity of this world
and mere man's religious beliefs.It is a heresay to abide in the
teaching of man's theory on Universal reconcilliation.
It sure a no GO ZONE AND a false concept and i am sad that Roger
has been so deceived into believing a lie.
#Post#: 298--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is the lake of fire "remedial"?
By: Admin Date: August 16, 2012, 4:25 pm
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[font=trebuchet ms]I believe and trust simply that God will save
who God will save.
It is not His will that any should perish, and we must be very
sorrowful at the idea that some shall, for it hurts the Father
more than us.
I believe it is right and good to pray that all men be saved.
Beyond that, it is in the Father's hands, and His will shall be
done.[/font]
#Post#: 300--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is the lake of fire "remedial"?
By: clothed-in-white Date: August 16, 2012, 7:09 pm
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if we dont go off into the theories of religious men....we can
ask a sensible question and receive the truth of the whole
matter.'
will God send millions of people to hell who have not heard the
gospel. the mentally challenged, the children, the hurting
etc....
NO!!!! HE WILL NOT -that is NT bible truth and none can change
this truth by preaching another gospel.
here is His word on this whole question and He cannot lie.
[quote]
King James Bible
''For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world
are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made,
even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without
excuse''
[/quote]
Father has made provision for all humanity to run back into His
personal shepherding and care. Our Father has given them so
clear evidence of his existence and claims, that they have no
excuse for their idolatry, and for hindering the truth by their
iniquity.
''He is Just
He is Love
Love loves Justice and justice loves love.
without Justice love cannot be
without Love justice cannot be.''
UR calls Father a liar. :'(
the next queation to ask is
this.......................................
WHO ???? would benefit the most by telling others they can be
rebels and sinners and destroy and maim others on earth, but one
day after they die, they really shall be saved''
who would benefit from this lie and deceiving other into
thinking ''o well i have a 2nd chance''?
people chooSe to oppoSe the Lord and HiS work.
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