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Return to: Catholicism 101
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#Post#: 99--------------------------------------------------
Why I am Catholic
By: CatholicCrusader Date: August 9, 2012, 8:28 am
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Why I am Catholic
A statement of my personal belief
Jesus said his Church would be "the light of the world." He then
noted that "a city set on a hill cannot be hid" (Matt. 5:14).
This means his Church is a visible organization. It must have
characteristics that clearly identify it and that distinguish it
from other churches. Jesus promised, "I will build my Church and
the gates of hell will not prevail against it" (Matt. 16:1 8 ).
This means that his Church will never be destroyed and will
never fall away from him. His Church will survive until his
return.
Among the Christian churches, only the Catholic Church has
existed since the time of Jesus. Every other Christian church is
an offshoot of the Catholic Church. The Eastern Orthodox
churches broke away from unity with the pope in 1054. The
Protestant churches were established during the Reformation,
which began in 1517. (Most of today�s Protestant churches are
actually offshoots of the original Protestant offshoots.)
Only the Catholic Church existed in the tenth century, in the
fifth century, and in the first century, faithfully teaching the
doctrines given by Christ to the apostles, omitting nothing. The
line of popes can be traced back, in unbroken succession, to
Peter himself. This is unequaled by any institution in history.
Even the oldest government is new compared to the papacy, and
the churches that send out door-to-door missionaries are young
compared to the Catholic Church. Many of these churches began as
recently as the nineteenth or twentieth centuries. Some even
began during your own lifetime. None of them can claim to be the
Church Jesus established.
The Catholic Church has existed for nearly 2,000 years, despite
constant opposition from the world. This is testimony to the
Church�s divine origin. It must be more than a merely human
organization, because any merely human organization would have
collapsed early on. The Catholic Church is today the most
vigorous church in the world (and the largest, with a billion
members: one sixth of the human race), and that is testimony not
to the cleverness of the Church�s leaders, but to the protection
of the Holy Spirit.
[B]FOUR MARKS OF THE TRUE CHURCH[/B]
If we wish to locate the Church founded by Jesus, we need to
locate the one that has the four chief marks or qualities of his
Church. The Church we seek must be one, holy, catholic, and
apostolic.
[B]The Church Is One (Rom. 12:5, 1 Cor. 10:17, 12:13)[/B]
Jesus established only one Church, not a collection of differing
churches (Lutheran, Baptist, Anglican, and so on). The Bible
says the Church is the bride of Christ (Eph. 5:23�32). Jesus can
have but one spouse, and his spouse is the Catholic Church. His
Church also teaches just one set of doctrines, which must be the
same as those taught by the apostles (Jude 3). This is the unity
of belief to which Scripture calls us (Phil. 1:27, 2:2).
[B]The Church Is Holy (Eph. 5:25�27, Rev. 19:7�8 )[/B]
By his grace Jesus makes the Church holy, just as he is holy.
This doesn�t mean that each member is always holy. Jesus said
there would be both good and bad members in the Church (John
6:70), and not all the members would go to heaven (Matt.
7:21�23). But the Church itself is holy because it is the source
of holiness and is the guardian of the special means of grace
Jesus established, the sacraments (cf. Eph. 5:26).
[B]The Church Is Catholic (Matt. 28:19�20, Rev. 5:9�10)[/B]
Jesus� Church is called catholic ("universal" in Greek) because
it is his gift to all people. He told his apostles to go
throughout the world and make disciples of "all nations" (Matt.
28:19�20). For 2,000 years the Catholic Church has carried out
this mission, preaching the good news that Christ died for all
men and that he wants all of us to be members of his universal
family (Gal. 3:28 ). Nowadays the Catholic Church is found in
every country of the world and is still sending out missionaries
to "make disciples of all nations" (Matt. 28:19). The Church
Jesus established was known by its most common title, "the
Catholic Church," at least as early as the year 107, when
Ignatius of Antioch used that title to describe the one Church
Jesus founded. The title apparently was old in Ignatius�s time,
which means it probably went all the way back to the time of the
apostles.
[B]The Church Is Apostolic (Eph. 2:19�20)[/B]
The Church Jesus founded is apostolic because he appointed the
apostles to be the first leaders of the Church, and their
successors were to be its future leaders. The apostles were the
first bishops, and, since the first century, there has been an
unbroken line of Catholic bishops faithfully handing on what the
apostles taught the first Christians in Scripture and oral
Tradition (2 Tim. 2:2). These beliefs include the bodily
Resurrection of Jesus, the Real Presence of Jesus in the
Eucharist, the sacrificial nature of the Mass, the forgiveness
of sins through a priest, baptismal regeneration, the existence
of purgatory, Mary�s special role, and much more �even the
doctrine of apostolic succession itself. Early Christian
writings prove the first Christians were thoroughly Catholic in
belief and practice and looked to the successors of the apostles
as their leaders. What these first Christians believed is still
believed by the Catholic Church. No other Church can make that
claim.
[B]Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth[/B]
Man�s ingenuity cannot account for this. The Church has remained
one, holy, catholic, and apostolic�not through man�s effort, but
because God preserves the Church he established (Matt. 16:18,
28:20).
He guided the Israelites on their escape from Egypt by giving
them a pillar of fire to light their way across the dark
wilderness (Exod. 13:21). Today he guides us through his
Catholic Church.
The Bible, sacred Tradition, and the writings of the earliest
Christians testify that the Church teaches with Jesus�
authority. In this age of countless competing religions, each
clamoring for attention, one voice rises above the din: the
Catholic Church, which the Bible calls "the pillar and
foundation of truth" (1 Tim. 3:15).
Jesus assured the apostles and their successors, the popes and
the bishops, "He who listens to you listens to me, and he who
rejects you rejects me" (Luke 10:16). Jesus promised to guide
his Church into all truth (John 16:12�13). We can have
confidence that his Church teaches only the truth.
[I]Adapted from this source:
http://www.catholic.com/documents/pillar-of-fire-pillar-of-truth
http://www.catholic.com/documents/pillar-of-fire-pillar-of-truth
[/I]
#Post#: 104--------------------------------------------------
Re: Why I am Catholic
By: CBE Date: August 9, 2012, 10:31 am
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I love your zealousness. But I'm not sure about your history.
Around 300 AD Constantine became empior of the Roman empior.
Then he set of in a city that has often been call by his name
Constantinople, a religous center which became the religous
center for the Roman empior. We then see the important religous
events like the concouls of Nicia in the area of Greece and
Constantinople. Now at that time we have what we call Bishops
leading the different churches. Each city has it's church and
Bishop.
As time goes by there becomes a power struggle between the
church at Rome and the church at Constantinople, and the Roman
Empior basically breaks down into and east and west again. Then
we enter what is reffered to as the Byzantine Empire, which is
in Constantiople. Rome falls to the Goths, Vandals and such.
Still the relgious struggle goes on, and the struggling Bishop
of Rome declares himself to be pope (about 450 AD), which seems
pretty much a joke because what's left of the political power
and economic power of the Roman Empire has moved to
Constantinople and the Glory of the Byzntium Empire goes forth.
That is; what glory is still left of the Roman Empire is
reflected in the Byzantium Empire which is ruled from Greece
(Constantiople). The self proclaimed pope isn't thought of as
much at that time, and nobody but himself, and possibly his
immidiate followers, proclaim him to be pope and leader of
Christianity. Certainly he does not rule in Canstantiople at
that time.
Still, as is always the case, men love the idea of having a
human king, as opposed to trusting in the Lord as their King. We
havn't forgotten about why Saul was appointed king have we. So
the struggle for this self created title of "pope" (ultimate
religous power on earth) begins, and it seems to me that it
becomes a joke at times. Indeed, as I recall there was once
three different people claiming to be pope, and popes are being
killed of left and right, like kings, as the power struggle
continues.
Finally a pope who narrowly avoids being killed off goes to the
powerfull king Charlemagne of France, and he gets Charlemagne to
attack and conquor Rome, thereby making him pope again. This is
how this all comes about, and we wind up with a eastern and
western church (Roman Catholic, and Greek Orthodox churches) The
Roman Catholic church declares themselves to be the one true
chruch, but the Greek Orthodox, who have actually been around
longer, don't agree.
Now they both tend to agree on many things. They are after all
very old traditional churches that share alot of history. Yet
the Greek Orthodox certainly will not agree that the Roman
Catholic church is the oldest church. Ask the, I have, and they
will tell you plainly that they are the oldest church. Nor will
they agree that the Roman Church and their pope is the one true
church with the one true leader of God's people on earth. How
could they?
Now I am protestant, and a Charimatic protestant at that. I feel
that the Roman Catholic church, the Greek Orthodox church, and
Protestant churches are all God's. In the book of Revelation we
see God using John to write to seven churches, and Paul wrote to
many others. It was clear at that time the God had His church
meeting at different locations, and that they were the Lord's.
[Rev 1:20] As for teh mystery of the seven stars whcih you saw
which you saw in My right hand, ... the seven stars are the
angels of the seven churches
So how do you get one true church out of a verse like that?
As for me, it seems clear that the Pope is a leader of the
"Roman" Catholic church. He is deserving of respect like any
other bishop, but he is clearly not the leader of the Greek
Orthodox church, nor the Coptic church (which like the Greek
Orthodox is probably older than the Roman Catholic church also).
Of course I am considered Protestant, and the pope does not have
authority in any church I have been to.
Do get me wrong though. I admire and respect the man and the
title he has been given. Indeed, He could have no authority
(according to the Scritpures) unless it had been given to him by
God. But then again, if he doesn't have authority, how silly is
it to say he does? If the pope and the Catholic church has power
and authority (and they do) they have it because of God. And if
they don't have power and authority (and they don't have all
power and authority) then it wasn't given to them by God also.
So if a person of persons, proclaim themselves to be the one
true church and God's authority on earth, but don't have it, it
is just a matter of pride and not fact.
Still I love the Catholic church. I love that fact that the good
news of Jesus Christ is being spread, no matter what the motive
behind those spreading the good news is. Paul wrote about that.
May God Bless the Catholic church.
#Post#: 105--------------------------------------------------
Re: Why I am Catholic
By: Admin Date: August 9, 2012, 10:38 am
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[font=trebuchet ms]Perfect statement of faith for kicking off
Catholicism 101. There's a lot there, and a lot of Scriptures
to look up, which, in time, I hope to do. Thanks for a
well-organized post. I'll need a bit of time to study through
it. [/font]
#Post#: 123--------------------------------------------------
Re: Why I am Catholic
By: Beancounter Date: August 9, 2012, 8:24 pm
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My eyes are sore and tired right now, not really capable of
seeing a lot, but I am glad to see your strong faith Terry that
proudly proclaim your faith. I like CBE am protestant, but I
cannot find myself faitffully supporting any church I have ever
visited. I love to fellowship with other christians, singing
songs of faith, listening to speakers speak about thier faith
and what scripture says to them, but these churchs are made up
of... and I dont mean a few members... I mean many in the
leadership... christians who are living a life of flesh and
stone, involved in petty power struggles for position, treating
those they dont like with disrespect, looking down thier noses
at many... the list could go on, but the point is made. I wish
I felt as strongly about some christian sect as you do Terry.
But experience has shown me that churchs will only make me proud
to be a member, when Christ returns and sets things right.
#Post#: 128--------------------------------------------------
Re: Why I am Catholic
By: CatholicCrusader Date: August 10, 2012, 6:15 am
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[quote author=CBE link=topic=27.msg104#msg104 date=1344526305]
I love your zealousness. But I'm not sure about your history.
Around 300 AD Constantine became empior of the Roman empior.
Then he set of in a city that has often been call by his name
Constantinople, a religous center which became the religous
center for the Roman empior. We then see the important religous
events like the concouls of Nicia in the area of Greece and
Constantinople. Now at that time we have what we call Bishops
leading the different churches. Each city has it's church and
Bishop............[/quote]
I am not quite sure what that has to do with my post. Worldy
kings and their capitols are irellevant. And the only reason
Rome is relevant is because that's where Peter died and so thats
where we see a man take up his ministry and his authority.
#Post#: 246--------------------------------------------------
Re: Why I am Catholic
By: CBE Date: August 14, 2012, 11:26 am
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[quote author=CatholicCrusader link=topic=27.msg128#msg128
date=1344597339]
I am not quite sure what that has to do with my post. Worldy
kings and their capitols are irellevant. And the only reason
Rome is relevant is because that's where Peter died and so thats
where we see a man take up his ministry and his authority.
[/quote]
[size=12pt] Is where Peter died relevant? Does a man in Rome
actually have some central authority over the whole Chruch? Is
the pope relevant to deciding what church a person should
attend?
As Chrisians (followers of Christ) we all realize the
significants of Christ dying on the cross, and I recall
something said about is it not being right thank any prophet
should die somewhere other than Jerusalem.
Lk 13:33 for it cannot be that a prophet cannot perish outside
of Jerusalem.
Perhaps He was being a bit sarcastic, or maybe there is a deeper
meaning, like Jerusalem being a type of spiritual city in which
we put God's prophets to death. Still all Christaian from the
first realize the significants of Christ death, but Peter death
is a bit more in question.
The significance of Peter's death in Rome was first made (and
only made, as far as I can tell) by the church in Rome. The
meaning of Jesus saying, "upon this rock my church will be
built" is up for debate! There I havn't found any indication in
the early church, that it's meaning meant that Rome was supposed
to be the center point for the Religion. I see not signs that
the early church instantly felt that the leader of the church in
Rome was supposed be the spiritual leader to all of them.
Why were so many of the councils in Nicea? Why did Constantine
move the Religious center to Constantinople? Can you point to
anything other than after the bishop of Rome appoints himself
pope and master authority over all Chrisidom?
A study of church history seem to point that Rome was important
because it was the center of the Roman Empire!! Christianity did
not stem from there, but rather Jerusalem. Also the first
indications that I see in history that Rome was meant to be the
place of the devine leader of Christendom, was from the bishop
of Rome that first appointed himself all around leader.
Below are some quotes from a book "Church History In Plain
Language" , by Bruce Shelley
"According to the offical teaching of the Roman Catholic Church,
definded at the First Vatican Council (1870), Jesus Christ
establised the papacy with the apostle Peter; and the Bishop of
Rome as Peter's successor bears the supreme authority (primacy)
over the whole church. Both Eastern Orthodox churches and
Protestant denominations deny both of these claims. For this
reason any study of the history of the papacy creates
controversey, comparable to sticking your hand into a hornets
next.
Our primary concern, however, is neither the vindication nor the
refutation of the Roman Catholic claims. It is a survey of
Christian history. Whatever the absolute claims of the church
authorities, history indicates that the concept of papal fule of
the whole church was established by slow and painful stages. Leo
is a major figure in that process because he porvides for the
first time the biblical and theological bases of the papal
claim. That is why it is misleading to speak for the papacy
before his time."
Leo, when he become biship of Rome preaches a sermon on Peter,
in which he indicates the conncetion of Peter and Paul to the
church at Rome make the biishop of Rome the leader as in
succesion.
In 451, the Emperor called a council at Chalcedon. Leo was the
most forceful and respected Bishop there, but never the less,
"The sole and independent leadership of the Eastern church by
thepatriarch of Constantinople was confired." (again from Bruce
L. Shelley)
In 455, Leo was begging Gaiseric, King of the Vandels to have
mercy on Rome.
So now what? 1400 years later, (1870) the First Vatican Council
has to make a statment to confirm the Popes authority. Yeah -
the discussion is a hornest nest, because the conntection if
dubious, and only ever really recognized by the Roman Cahtolic
church. It very much seems to be something like saying "I am the
greatest, and I will tell you why."
Still if someone wants to say, "I am a Catholic because, the
Pope is the supreme authority of God on earth", that is their
reason.
I do believe the Roman Catholic church is a Christian church.
It's hard to read history and think that it was not used
extinsively by God to expand the kingdom of God. Of course it is
just as hard to take an independant look at history and come to
the conclusion that is the only church to expand the kingdom of
God.
Yet neither of those reasons are why I believe or why I go to
church where I do. I believe because a voice over my right
should told me "READ YOUR BIBLE", and since then I have become
friends with a spiritual being that teaches from from the Bible,
gives me wisdom and understanding, and tells me to go to a
Christian church, has me working in a Christian healing room,
once had me spend all the money I had to open and run a
Christian bookstore, and even told me He wanted me posting on a
forum again the very day Raina e-mailed me and told me about
this new site. Frankly, I have a Lord that tells me where to go
and what to do, and He even tells me that the Roman Catholic
church is one of His churches. So I love the Roman Catholic
church because the One who talks to me loves it, but He doesn't
take me there, nor can I agree with all their thinking. Some of
it just doesn't make sense to me.[/size]
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