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| #Post#: 80539-------------------------------------------------- | |
| "Black Tie" wedding - question at the end | |
| By: SnappyLT Date: November 24, 2023, 6:48 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| I've received a "save-the-date" announcement about a "black tie" | |
| wedding in my extended family coming up next July. | |
| I was chatting with "George," an early-30s aged member of my | |
| extended family, after Thanksgiving dinner yesterday. He and his | |
| wife, too, have received the save-the-date announcement. | |
| George told me he is annoyed about the "black tie" requirement | |
| for guests. He was saying that he feels that while the | |
| bride-to-be deserves to have whatever wedding she wants, he | |
| thinks that should not include telling her male guests that they | |
| have to go rent or buy a tuxedo just for one night. He said he | |
| is very tempted to just buy a nice black business suit and | |
| attend the wedding wearing a new black suit and bowtie. That way | |
| he can at least wear the black suit to work in his office | |
| sometimes as opposed to buying or renting a tuxedo he'd rarely | |
| ever use again. | |
| I did not suggest to George what I thought he should do. | |
| I told George that I could see his point of view. (I, too, am | |
| put off by the notion that the bride-to-be and her mother are | |
| presuming to tell me as a guest how to dress for a wedding.) | |
| On the other hand, based upon past experiences, I predicted to | |
| George that the bride's mother might indeed be very upset with | |
| George if he attends in a black business suit instead of a | |
| tuxedo. | |
| I told George that, for myself, if I decide to attend that | |
| wedding, I will send in my RSVP card promptly and I will | |
| reluctantly rent a tuxedo (even though I have a particularly | |
| handsome dark navy blue suit already in my closet that I'd | |
| rather wear). | |
| What would you have told George if he had spoken to you? | |
| #Post#: 80540-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: "Black Tie" wedding - question at the end | |
| By: Aleko Date: November 25, 2023, 5:20 am | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| As a general rule, it�s my understanding that the dress codes | |
| �white tie� and �black tie� need not be taken 100% literally by | |
| guests (people with actual roles in the event, whatever it is, | |
| are a different case). If you have it or feel inclined to hire | |
| it, wear it. If not, wear the next-most-formal thing with all | |
| the trimmings. So it�s acceptable to wear black tie to a | |
| white-tie banquet, or a dark business suit to a black-tie | |
| wedding (with a carnation in your buttonhole and a silk square | |
| in your breast pocket, of course, to show you�re respecting the | |
| festive formality of the occasion). | |
| But family dynamics also matter. Your wording suggests that you | |
| think the bride�s mother would be angry if any male guests | |
| didn�t wear black tie. If so, this is not really so much an | |
| etiquette question as a family-peace question. Are you or George | |
| close enough to the bride or bridegroom to ask them what they | |
| want or think? They might say �oh gosh, we didn�t want people to | |
| feel they had to hire, only to get across that it is a formal do | |
| - business suit is just fine�; if so, George knows he�s good to | |
| go. On the other hand, they might say �oh gosh, if anyone turns | |
| up in a suit Momzilla will be fit to be tied, and we�ll spend | |
| our entire wedding day trying to placate her - please, for our | |
| sakes, don�t do it�, In which case it�s his call whether to hire | |
| the wretched thing or just decline gracefully. | |
| #Post#: 80541-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: "Black Tie" wedding - question at the end | |
| By: Rose Red Date: November 25, 2023, 7:54 am | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| Multiple websites, including the Knot, says it's acceptable to | |
| wear a dark suit with a black tie/bowtie. But I agree it depends | |
| on if that means the bride or the MOB will disrupt the party by | |
| making a guest uncomfortable by their attire. I'm not saying | |
| it's right. I'd hate it if I'd need to buy a fancy floor length | |
| gown that's only worn once (I have nice dresses but not black | |
| tie level). But George needs to decide if he wants to keep the | |
| peace, decline the invitation, or wear a suit and let the chips | |
| fall where they may. | |
| #Post#: 80542-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: "Black Tie" wedding - question at the end | |
| By: DaDancingPsych Date: November 25, 2023, 11:23 am | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| I would tell George that it's inappropriate to not follow the | |
| dress code. As others have pointed out, his dark suit might be | |
| quite appropriate, but I would probably seek advisement prior to | |
| the invitation arriving so that I could make an informed | |
| decision as to what to do. | |
| If they truly want everyone to wear tuxes, when it sounds like | |
| it's not the norm for your family's weddings, then they must | |
| understand that some people will opt to not attend (or violate | |
| the dress code.) It's entirely possible that the bride and | |
| mother-of-the-bride have not thought this fully through. By | |
| getting in touch with them for clarification, it may help to | |
| alert them that the guests may not be willing to invest in a tux | |
| (or evening gown) for this event. | |
| #Post#: 80543-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: "Black Tie" wedding - question at the end | |
| By: oogyda Date: November 25, 2023, 12:14 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| In my experience, people often overstate the formality of their | |
| weddings. | |
| Often, this is because they are declaring the formality of the | |
| wedding party and don't really expect the same from their | |
| guests. Plus most people don't really know what the terms used | |
| in "dress codes" really means. | |
| #Post#: 80544-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: "Black Tie" wedding - question at the end | |
| By: Rho Date: November 25, 2023, 10:01 pm | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| First let me state that my husband inherited, literally, his | |
| fathers tux at age 37 so we have never had to worry about | |
| renting one. | |
| BUT why is it O.K. to ask guests to wear a certain colour or | |
| wear dressy casual or festive yacht and no one thinks twice. | |
| But black tie--oh my that is an imposition. | |
| To answer your question I don't know on the spot what I would | |
| have told George, if he should s_ck it up or smile and let him | |
| think it's O.K. to bend the dress code. | |
| Also--I was told after the fact of a bridal couple who | |
| requested black tie optional knowing lots of guests would show | |
| up in suits. Their plan was to let folks know not to show up in | |
| jeans. | |
| #Post#: 80545-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: "Black Tie" wedding - question at the end | |
| By: shadowfox79 Date: November 26, 2023, 2:33 am | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| I agree with what others have said, in that it's best to check | |
| these things just in case "black tie" simply means wear | |
| something nice. | |
| I don't blame the couple for having a dress code. DH and I | |
| didn't bother with one - as long as nobody showed up in their | |
| work overalls we were happy - but this resulted in almost every | |
| guest ringing us up to ask what they should wear. I didn't feel | |
| I could put "wear something nice" on the invitations, but maybe | |
| I should have. | |
| And also every woman wants to know if she needed to wear a hat. | |
| I have no idea why everyone was so obsessed with hats. | |
| #Post#: 80546-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: "Black Tie" wedding - question at the end | |
| By: Aleko Date: November 26, 2023, 3:37 am | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| DDP, I think Autocorrupt for some reason turned your �alert� | |
| into �alter�! | |
| #Post#: 80547-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: "Black Tie" wedding - question at the end | |
| By: Aleko Date: November 26, 2023, 3:56 am | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| [quote]And also every woman wants to know if she needed to wear | |
| a hat. I have no idea why everyone was so obsessed with | |
| hats.[/quote] | |
| Maybe because in Britain up till the 1950s or so at least, it | |
| was absolutely de rigueur for women to wear hats to church, and | |
| for any formal outdoor occasion. (Many older women even as late | |
| as the 1950s didn�t contemplate going out of their front door | |
| without a hat, ever.) So for the next half-century or so the | |
| wearing or not-wearing of hats by women was a clear marker of | |
| the degree of formality of an event, just as, for example, the | |
| wearing of ties by men still is. But now that hat-wearing for | |
| women has for decades only been obligatory at a few events with | |
| archaic dress codes (eg the Royal Enclosure at Ascot), this is | |
| no longer so: at a wedding these days you might see more hats | |
| worn by the young and dashing than the staid and elderly. | |
| #Post#: 80553-------------------------------------------------- | |
| Re: "Black Tie" wedding - question at the end | |
| By: lowspark Date: November 27, 2023, 11:32 am | |
| --------------------------------------------------------- | |
| Some people really do want every man invited to wear a tux and | |
| every woman to wear a formal gown. I've seen it. And if you show | |
| up in something else, you stand out like a sore thumb. On the | |
| other hand, I've also seen where "black tie" just means suit for | |
| the men and cocktail dress for the women. Only one way to find | |
| out. Ask. | |
| So to answer your question, I'd have told George to ring up the | |
| bride and groom and ask if his black suit was ok. If so, good! | |
| If not, then either get the tux or don't go. | |
| As to the question about if a bride and groom have the right to | |
| ask this, well, yeah. They do. Just as they have the right to | |
| ask guests to travel to a "destination wedding". And the invited | |
| have a right to decline the invitation if they choose not to | |
| comply. | |
| I don't think the guests should override the request though. If | |
| the requirement is black tie, meaning that George is requested | |
| to wear a tux, as verified by bride/groom, then he should either | |
| wear one or decline the invitation. | |
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