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Bad Manners and Brimstone
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#Post#: 79809--------------------------------------------------
Pay What You Can
By: DaDancingPsych Date: August 9, 2023, 4:08 pm
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Pay What You Can. What does that even mean?!?
There's a woman who offers specialized classes. She is several
hours away from me, so I would take her classes when she would
do a big weekend or something. After attending various times
over the years, I noted that some of her material was starting
to repeat, so her classes brought less value to me, but still
quite good.
Then covid. She switched to an online format. What a great
pivot! She also changed to a pay what you can format, which I
assumed was to accommodate those who might have been out of
work. This has apparently worked well for her as she continues
to do things in this way. Truthfully, the pay what you can has
caused me to shy away. It feels so strange for me to create the
price and determine the worth.
She's offering a big weekend of sorts that I'm interested in. I
did my research and my best guess is that others are offering
similar classes (in-person, in their part of the world) for
approximately $200. The comparison is not apples to apples, but
I think I'm in the ballpark. I CAN pay the $200. I have a decent
job and could probably shift the budget to make it work. But I
don't want to. Surprise expenses, other planned expenses, and
fear that much of the material might be a repeat of years past.
If she had priced these classes at $100, I would have jumped on
board feeling like it was a great deal. But she didn't price
them; I did. Even though I CAN pay, is it wrong to compensate
what I'm willing to pay... even if it might be well below market
value?
Thoughts?
#Post#: 79811--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pay What You Can
By: Aleko Date: August 10, 2023, 2:36 am
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My thought is that �pay what you can� in this sense is short for
�pay what you think it�s worth, if you can afford it; if not,
pay what you can�. If one would normally expect to be charged
$200 for this thing, one shouldn�t feel obligated to pay $500
just because one can afford that much!
So if you reckon that $200 is a reasonable price for this
course, and that it�s of enough use and interest to you that if
it were being charged at that price, you would put your money
down, I honestly think you would be stiffing her to pay less.
Is this weekend course still online? In that case, I�d expect
the price to be a lot less than a physical course, because the
outlay to the teacher is a lot less - no hire of venue, no
insurance, no coffee and lunches to provide.
If it�s in-person, one option might be to wait until close to
the course date and ask if there are still places available.
With a week or so to go, the teacher will be committed to pay
for the venue, insurance etc and if she hasn�t got a full house
she might be glad of your $100.
#Post#: 79812--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pay What You Can
By: DaDancingPsych Date: August 10, 2023, 5:25 am
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[quote author=Aleko link=topic=2531.msg79811#msg79811
date=1691653010]
Is this weekend course still online? In that case, I�d expect
the price to be a lot less than a physical course, because the
outlay to the teacher is a lot less - no hire of venue, no
insurance, no coffee and lunches to provide.
[/quote]
Yes, she is still doing everything online. So yes, I assume that
her expenses have decreased, especially since she appears to
have a set-up in her home that she is able to use on a
consistent basis. My evaluation is based on similar in-person
programs (as I am unaware of anyone with the same set-up as
her). She's certainly of the same caliber as the others, though.
I do think my $200 evaluation is fair. Considering the decreased
expenses on her end, maybe $175 or $150 might still be, too. But
the $100 that I'm willing to part with is likely quite low.
Thank you for your thoughts; they are helpful.
#Post#: 79814--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pay What You Can
By: Hmmm Date: August 10, 2023, 8:26 am
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[quote author=DaDancingPsych link=topic=2531.msg79812#msg79812
date=1691663153]
[quote author=Aleko link=topic=2531.msg79811#msg79811
date=1691653010]
Is this weekend course still online? In that case, I�d expect
the price to be a lot less than a physical course, because the
outlay to the teacher is a lot less - no hire of venue, no
insurance, no coffee and lunches to provide.
[/quote]
Yes, she is still doing everything online. So yes, I assume that
her expenses have decreased, especially since she appears to
have a set-up in her home that she is able to use on a
consistent basis. My evaluation is based on similar in-person
programs (as I am unaware of anyone with the same set-up as
her). She's certainly of the same caliber as the others, though.
I do think my $200 evaluation is fair. Considering the decreased
expenses on her end, maybe $175 or $150 might still be, too. But
the $100 that I'm willing to part with is likely quite low.
Thank you for your thoughts; they are helpful.
[/quote]
Some thoughts:
Since you took her weekend courses before, do you remember how
much she charged back then?
My other thought is that she could be using this pricing as a
"loss leader". So if you took the course and only paid $100 for
this weekend but found she had refreshed her material, would you
be willing to take additional online courses?
If you were taking the course in person, is there material or
tools (like if it is a crafting course) that she would provide
that you now need to provide? If so, I would take that into
account between the differences between your $200 estimate.
My last thought is that in person classes usually have a smaller
number of participants. So she may be spending the same amount
of time giving the course to a much larger audience which is why
she is being flexible in her class cost model.
#Post#: 79815--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pay What You Can
By: DaDancingPsych Date: August 10, 2023, 10:54 am
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[quote author=Hmmm link=topic=2531.msg79814#msg79814
date=1691674001]
Some thoughts:
Since you took her weekend courses before, do you remember how
much she charged back then?
My other thought is that she could be using this pricing as a
"loss leader". So if you took the course and only paid $100 for
this weekend but found she had refreshed her material, would you
be willing to take additional online courses?
If you were taking the course in person, is there material or
tools (like if it is a crafting course) that she would provide
that you now need to provide? If so, I would take that into
account between the differences between your $200 estimate.
My last thought is that in person classes usually have a smaller
number of participants. So she may be spending the same amount
of time giving the course to a much larger audience which is why
she is being flexible in her class cost model.
[/quote]
Great thoughts actually!
I hadn't thought to see what I paid the last time. It was
slightly more than $200. Now there are a few differences that I
could justify my lower number (fewer class hours this time and
she wasn't the only instructor that weekend), so I think I'm in
the ball park.
Yes, I absolutely would take more of her courses in the future
if I found out the material was all refreshed. While her
expertise is high and should be valued as such, getting to
obtain new ideas and concepts (rather than reinforcing the old
ones) would bring more value to me. It's just hard to justify a
potential "repeat" when my budget is rather tight at the moment.
There's no physical materials that she offers in-person. I might
get personalized feedback or be able to ask questions, but she
does offer this over Zoom so some of that may still be offered.
In my case, I would not be attending live and would just receive
the recordings. This is no fault of hers; just my scheduling.
Unfortunately, I have no clue how many people she pulls in
through her online teachings. Lack of fire codes makes that
number limitless... but I don't know how it's working in
reality.
But these are all good points... even if they are reinforcing
that I shouldn't be a cheapskate!!! ;D
#Post#: 79818--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pay What You Can
By: TootsNYC Date: August 10, 2023, 1:43 pm
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another thought is this: an in-person course might have a limit,
so someone paying less will push out someone who might have paid
more.
Online courses often don't have limits, in which case every $100
is $100 more than if you didn't attend.
And if you're not taking up personal attention during the
coursework, that also should drop the price a bit.
#Post#: 79820--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pay What You Can
By: jpcher Date: August 10, 2023, 2:09 pm
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I'm thinking that you could 'pay what you can' ($100). Then if
it's all new, refreshed material and/or you found the experience
to be awesome, then you could always pay a bit extra after the
fact. You know, pay what you think the experience was worth.
You say that with a bit of budget adjustment you could pay the
full price, but I do understand your point about possible repeat
information. That could be rather frustrating. "I paid this much
for a repeat?"
Did she give a suggested price for the seminar? Or was it just
listed as 'pay as you can'? If it was the latter, then some
people might pay only $25 for the experience . . . people that
are not as savvy as you are as to the going rate for things like
this.
I agree with hmmm's thought of "loss leader" maybe she's trying
to drum up business. A $25 payment is better than no payment at
all.
Be honest with yourself. If you think you should have paid more,
then do so.
If not? Then don't worry about being a cheapskate.
(Toots replied while I was typing)
#Post#: 79827--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pay What You Can
By: lowspark Date: August 11, 2023, 9:15 am
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I'm not too fond of the "pay what you can" model either. Makes
it so hard to know what to do!
In addition to what others have said, you might consider this.
If she were charging $200, would you go ahead and sign up? If
so, that means it's worth $200 and you should pay that. If not,
then what price point would be reasonable to you?
I do this sort of thing when I'm shopping sometimes. If I'm
attracted to an item of merchandise, before I look at the price,
I think to myself, what would I be willing to pay for this? THEN
I look at the price. If it's at my price point, or lower, then
I'm inclined to go ahead and pick it up. If it's higher, I
consider carefully if it's worth that extra amount or not.
One more comment. If she's been doing "pay what you can" for a
couple of years now, the fact that she continues to do it
indicates that it has been profitable for her. So it means that
people are generally stepping up and paying an amount that is
satisfactory to both parties. And this includes you and however
you have valued and paid for her services previously.
#Post#: 79828--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pay What You Can
By: DaDancingPsych Date: August 11, 2023, 10:01 am
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More great thoughts. It's entirely possible that any amount
would be appreciated. I suppose that if I was running this
model, I wouldn't be looking at the individual payments, but
rather what did I make in whole. If I was looking to make $1000
from a series of classes and the total came $1500, then I
wouldn't care that an individual paid a small amount. But I
wasn't sure if everyone saw it this way. But I also worry on the
flip side that if she only makes $500 total that my low payment
might become offensive? But I think now I've entered my classic
overthink stage!
I suppose that lack of personal attention could reduce the price
a bit. Her live classes typically do involve a lot of personal
interaction, although larger groups would also reduce this.
No suggested price; just pay what you can. I really have no clue
what others are paying.
I had actually thought of paying a "tip" afterwards if I felt
like I needed to pay more. It would be easy to do being that she
accepts payments through PayPal and Venmo. I suppose in the
spirit of pay what you can that it might appear that another pay
day came along so I able to add a thank you payment, but I
wasn't sure if that might feel strange.
#Post#: 79844--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pay What You Can
By: Hmmm Date: August 14, 2023, 9:43 am
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[quote author=DaDancingPsych link=topic=2531.msg79828#msg79828
date=1691766084]
More great thoughts. It's entirely possible that any amount
would be appreciated. I suppose that if I was running this
model, I wouldn't be looking at the individual payments, but
rather what did I make in whole. If I was looking to make $1000
from a series of classes and the total came $1500, then I
wouldn't care that an individual paid a small amount. But I
wasn't sure if everyone saw it this way. But I also worry on the
flip side that if she only makes $500 total that my low payment
might become offensive? But I think now I've entered my classic
overthink stage!
I suppose that lack of personal attention could reduce the price
a bit. Her live classes typically do involve a lot of personal
interaction, although larger groups would also reduce this.
No suggested price; just pay what you can. I really have no clue
what others are paying.
I had actually thought of paying a "tip" afterwards if I felt
like I needed to pay more. It would be easy to do being that she
accepts payments through PayPal and Venmo. I suppose in the
spirit of pay what you can that it might appear that another pay
day came along so I able to add a thank you payment, but I
wasn't sure if that might feel strange.
[/quote]
I think adding an additional payment after the class is a great
idea. In my industry, the online classes for a course are often
half the price of attending in person. I say go ahead and sign
up with a $100 payment and leave yourself the option to add
additional after the course if you find it really valuable.
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