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	#Post#: 50551--------------------------------------------------
	Throwing out your hosts' food supplies
	By: Aleko Date: April 18, 2020, 10:00 am
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	A recent Miss Manners letter complains that: [quote]'When my
	wife and I hosted some family members, one of our female guests
	took it upon herself to go through our pantry and select every
	item that was past its "sell by" or "best by" date. She then
	proceeded to pour the contents into our garbage disposal and
	toss the containers in our recycling bin'[/quote] He adds that
	they have friends, also over 65, who say they have been
	subjected to similar treatment by visiting relatives.
	https://www.pressreader.com/usa/the-dallas-morning-news/20200410/282325387093582
	I can't think of a more unforgivable piece of rudeness.
	Whatever their family relationship, no guest has the right to
	rummage unasked through their host's things, let alone take it
	on themselves to throw out anything they find there, whatever
	their opinion of it. And it is nobody's business to deprive
	adults of sound mind of their own property on the grounds that
	they ought not to have or use it. We only have the right to do
	that to children or mentally-inadequate adults who are in our
	charge. What the letter-writer's guest was essentially saying
	is, 'I'm sorry, Uncle Harold, but you and Auntie Mabel are
	clearly ga-ga, so your family need to protect you from your own
	incompetence'.
	Incidentally, she was also showing herself up as a fool as well
	as a busybody: because a sell-by date does not even mean that
	the product should not be consumed after that date. Typically
	about a third of the product's shelf-life should remain.
	#Post#: 50554--------------------------------------------------
	Re: Throwing out your hosts' food supplies
	By: AnnNottingham Date: April 18, 2020, 10:31 am
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	Well, that would be houseguests I could scratch off the list.
	What's next-going through my underwear drawer and throwing out
	anything too hole-y or faded?
	#Post#: 50557--------------------------------------------------
	Re: Throwing out your hosts' food supplies
	By: STiG Date: April 18, 2020, 10:58 am
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	Unless you are going to replace whatever you throw out, don't
	touch my stuff!
	I did routinely go through my Dad's stuff to throw out stuff
	that was open, in the fridge, well out of date but then I'd take
	him shopping to replace the things he actually used.
	#Post#: 50559--------------------------------------------------
	Re: Throwing out your hosts' food supplies
	By: Aleko Date: April 18, 2020, 12:14 pm
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	[quote]I did routinely go through my Dad's stuff to throw out
	stuff that was open, in the fridge, well out of date but then
	I'd take him shopping to replace the things he actually
	used.[/quote]
	Here we differ. Till Covid-19 I routinely went every two weeks
	to my Dad in the Midlands and stayed overnight. I'd help him put
	together our lunch and supper, and if I came across anything
	iffy in the fridge I'd remark on it and suggest he throw it out;
	but I would neither go though the fridge just to check up on
	him, nor throw out anything I found without his explicit
	agreement.
	Dad spent his early teens during WWII in a godawful boarding
	school in East Africa, where as he says the main thing he
	learned was to eat anything put before him, no matter how
	revolting, and he lived 57 years with my mother whose austere
	Quaker upbringing combined with her own years of wartime and
	postwar austerity forbade her to throw anything away that was
	conceivably useable. Hence there are quite often iffy things in
	his fridge. Last time I was there I asked what he had for our
	supper and would he like me to cook it? He said he had some
	chicken livers, and yes please. So I fished them out, and said,
	'Dad, I don't know how long you've had these, but they're past
	it.' 'Oh, let's not be fussy!' 'No, seriously, Dad: they
	actually stink. I definitely wouldn't eat these, and I won't be
	responsible for cooking them for you, either. You're a grown-up
	bunny rabbit and you can cook them for yourself if you want, but
	I'd rather make do with bread and cheese, thanks'. He came
	over, sniffed and agreed that ok, they really were past it, and
	agreed we should bin them. That's how it goes; I can call him a
	daft old badger to his face, and he doesn't mind when I do, but
	I would never override his rights as an adult in his own house.
	(Not till I actually find him trying to boil an egg in a dry
	pan, as my mother did toward the end; if ever he goes truly gaga
	the rules will change, but not till then.)
	#Post#: 50560--------------------------------------------------
	Re: Throwing out your hosts' food supplies
	By: STiG Date: April 18, 2020, 12:45 pm
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	My Dad had the beginnings of dementia and poor reading eyesight
	so he needed the help. I would definitely tell him what I was
	chucking and why. Quite often there were leftovers in there
	that were unrecognizable, too. In the interests of safety, he
	needed the direction.
	#Post#: 50580--------------------------------------------------
	Re: Throwing out your hosts' food supplies
	By: mime Date: April 18, 2020, 8:51 pm
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	What a horrible guest! I've seen relatives over the years do
	this kind of thing, too. "Busybody" really is the best word for
	it. I don't quite understand whether they actually fear for
	Auntie Edna's safety (as unfounded as that may be) or they feel
	important by taking on the role of guardian for a failing family
	member.
	Doesn't matter-- that is someone who demonstrated that they
	cannot be trusted to act in the true best interests of the older
	relative. They don't deserve to be a guest again.
	I do leave room for the case of someone who really is struggling
	with dementia-- but control should be relinquished to a
	competent and caring relative, and done voluntarily!
	#Post#: 50586--------------------------------------------------
	Re: Throwing out your hosts' food supplies
	By: XRogue Date: April 18, 2020, 11:31 pm
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	Unfortunately, some people will not accept help even when
	needed. Witness my paternal grandmother who in her early 70's
	(possibly earlier, 72-73 is the earliest I observed) began
	leaving food to go rancid in both fridge and pantry. We're
	talking chunky milk with mold colonies, past due separated
	mayonnaise and bulging leaky cans. Multiple cases of food
	poisoning, for herself and unwary guests. Dad's siblings
	refused to eat in her house, Dad wouldn't admit it was that bad
	until her Christmas dinner one year gave HIM food poisoning too.
	(I was 7, that was the last Christmas at her house until I was
	17, and we insisted on having that catered from a deli).
	Dad spoke to her about it a few times, offered help, got
	screamed at that he just wanted to put her away in a home, she
	wasn't senile or old, because her mother (who lived to be 108!)
	was still alive. Threw his hands in the air, did the best he
	could to keep rotating stock in the kitchen, and we dialed WAY
	back on eating there too.
	So Dad's mother continued to maintain her independence until she
	finally collapsed in her kitchen aged 82. She had a brain tumor
	and damage from uncontrolled grand mal seizures. Dad went and
	retrieved her, and she died in hospice the next year. Had been
	very frail for the preceding 10 years or so.
	Point is, if there is no safety issue, sure, butt out. If, God
	forbid, there is a safety concern, I do not care about polite, I
	will not put myself or my children at risk, nor let someone be
	unheathy and live in misery and unsafe conditions. If that makes
	me a buttinsky or a horrible person, well so be it.
	#Post#: 50612--------------------------------------------------
	Re: Throwing out your hosts' food supplies
	By: Chez Miriam Date: April 19, 2020, 1:07 pm
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	[quote author=XRogue link=topic=1686.msg50586#msg50586
	date=1587270684]
	<snip
	Point is, if there is no safety issue, sure, butt out. If, God
	forbid, there is a safety concern, I do not care about polite, I
	will not put myself or my children at risk, nor let someone be
	unheathy and live in misery and unsafe conditions. If that makes
	me a buttinsky or a horrible person, well so be it.
	[/quote]
	I've once thrown away food from someone else's home, and that
	was my mother's: we'd gone up there for her 80th birthday party,
	and I was trying to find room in the fridge for some French
	[a.k.a. "stinky"] cheese we'd bought, and some champagne, and
	some wine, and, and, and...
	The black mould was offputting, and there was very little space,
	so I took everything out [to thoroughly clean the fridge
	itself], and then binned every last item that was "growing a fur
	coat".
	Afterwards, she insisted that her fridge was clean, but my
	husband had approved the 'black mould removal exercise', so we
	both knew differently. Now, since her eye surgeries, I haven't
	needed to clean on any visit [and I notice she doesn't use the
	torch to see in there].
	Were it just the household at risk, I'm have 'sucked it up', but
	knowing that other 80+ year olds would be turning up I didn't
	want to risk anyone having the furry ham. I may also have
	chucked the 1 tsp worth of butter in three containers, only
	leaving the one that was just started.
	My cousin's mouldy food in her fridge? Yeah, just leave that
	and say "oh, no thank you" to whatever has visible mould.
	We're firm believers in "if food is still OK, it's still OK to
	eat it", but mould doesn't belong on meat. [Cheese, we may just
	scrape.]
	#Post#: 50617--------------------------------------------------
	Re: Throwing out your hosts' food supplies
	By: Hanna Date: April 19, 2020, 2:40 pm
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	I think my father probably wrote that letter.
	#Post#: 50619--------------------------------------------------
	Re: Throwing out your hosts' food supplies
	By: VorFemme Date: April 19, 2020, 3:30 pm
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	I have asked DD to help me clean the pantry while they visit -
	her comments that any food in the pantry older than her kids (so
	- best by date in 2010 or earlier) is probably not edible.
	VorGuy insisted on keeping the cookie mix (only four years past
	the best by date) and made them himself. VorSon & I are NOT
	touching them because, frankly, something had gone badly off -
	rancid flour? Rancid shortening in the mix? Don't know, don't
	care, don't want to sniff any of the others...sorry.
	He says that they taste fine. He also adores hot sauce, peppers
	on his pizza, and a higher level of spicy food than I can
	tolerate...I don't know if he likes the flavors or has less
	sensitive taste buds...but he's always insisted that things were
	"fine" when I was insisting that they didn't taste right to
	me...so...I just avoid what smells bad and toss things when he
	isn't looking. Or have someone who can read the "best by" or
	"expiration dates" that are getting hard for me to
	read...because he will insist that "we just bought that" when
	the spice has gone crumbly, has no scent, and you can't tell by
	looking at the contents of the jar what is was originally...and
	the "bought date" that I wrote on it in permanent marker clearly
	says 2/12 to me and he's insisting that means Feb 12th this
	year, not February eight years ago.
	But DD & VorSon are the only ones that can help me sort out the
	pantry and convince VorGuy that maybe, just maybe - it would
	upset the delicate tummies of his grandkids if they got into the
	old food and he can't bear the idea of making the grandkids
	sick.
	Love him - but - he's stubborn at times. Since he's retired, I
	can't quietly toss the fuzzy ham out while he's at work...he's
	home full time...
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