SUBJECT: MORE INTERVIEW'S OF BILL ENGLISH FILE: UFO3294
70/75: Bill English Interview
Name: Ken Geest #1 @3466
Date: Tue Jul 10 19:00:45 1990
From: The Dark Side (Missouri)
The post following this one is an interview conducted with Bill English on
July 8, 1990. Myself, Mary Geest, Barb Becker and Greg Petroski were all
present and Bill English.
If you have any questions you would like to ask Bill English, you may send
him E-mail at 171@3466
Ken Geest 1@3466
WWIVnet Origin "The Darkside" St. Louis, Mo. 314-298-7486
Read:(1-75,^70),? :
71/75: UFORN--Bill English Interview July 8, 1990
Name: Ken Geest #1 @3466
Date: Tue Jul 10 19:01:29 1990
From: The Dark Side (Missouri)
UFORN Interview with Bill English July 8,1990
Participants:
Bill English
Ken Geest
Barb Becker
Greg Petroski
Geest: Good evening, We would like to welcome William (Bill) S. English
tonight.
English: Thank you Ken, I am honored...
Geest: thanks....ok Bill, first up, when did you first become interested
in UFO's?
English: My first involvement with UFOs came as a direct result of my
employment as a civilian Data Analyst for the United States
Department of Defence at RAF Chicksands, in England. I was
located at the Air Force Security Services Command listening
station there...
Geest: What did you do at the RAF position?
English: Essentially it was my job to analyse data that was taken from
Soviet Block Nations Broadcasts and communications via the
"Big Ear" that was located at Chicksands. When analising the
data after it was translated I was to gage it's probibility
and assign to it a factor or percentage in order to help
ascertain what the information may possibly pertain to..
Geest: At what point did UFO's come into the picture?
English: Well, where to begin....Hmmmm...It all began during the later
part of June of 1977. I reported to work as I normally did
and picked up my assignments sheet for the day. When I read
the assignments sheet there was only one job listed. I was to
analyse documents that had been brought in by Diplomatic Courier.
This didn't seem to be to much out of order since I had done this
type of thing before. After getting my morning cup of coffee and
picking on the enlisted men I went to my work station and rang the
duty officer on the intercom to inform him that I was ready to
receive the documents in question. Security messures at that time
required that the DO bring all materials for analysis and that
the Analyst sign for them directly. The D.O would then lock my
cubicle door until I informed him that I was finished or need a
break, at which time he would come in and take pocession of the
documents and sign my log stating that he had them.. This occassion
he brought in a diplomatic pouch that was sealed and locked and
broke the seal and unlocked the pouch. This WAS unusual. In most
cases the pouches or material were already removed from whatever they
were delivered in and placed in security jackets. He then presented
the documents to me and I signed for them and he locked the door
and I started reading.
Geest: Do you have any idea why the messanger broke the seal on the pouch?
English: He had no choice. The seal had to be broken in order to open the
pouch...
Geest: What did you read/ and or see?
English: The pouch contained what appeared to be a military Tech manual at
first glance, but when he handed it to me I saw that the title
on it was "Grudge/Blue Book Report #13", and it contained several
ultra top secret clearance codes on the cover. At the time I had
no idea what it was I was reading until I got about four or five
pages into it. I then discovered that what I had was what appeared
to be a complete Technical and Medical investigation report
concerning UFOs and Alien Beings...
Geest: Where was the pouch suppose to go to...ie was it to go to the
Pentagon etc...
English: I have no idea where it was supposed to go after I read and
analysed it. Once we did our job we put it back into the hands
of the D.O. and that was the last time we saw the documents that
we worked on...It could have gone anywhere after I had it....
Becker: Why would you have been given this report?
English: At the time I assumed that it was to do the job that I was
employed to do. Analyse the documents that were given to me.
I asumed that at the time also they wanted someone with a pretty
good track record to take a look at it. The Desposition form with
the instructions said to analyse the document and it's various
sections and assign a probibility rating to it based on the
material that it contained..
Geest: A Probibility of what, please forgive we are not military folks...
English: Well, let me explain it a little so that maybe it will be a
little clearer than mud <grin> Essentially I was to evaluate the
material and information. Once I did this I was then to basicly
use my intuition and decide whether or not the information was true
or not. We usually had a basic criteria that we followed and that
criteria changed almost daily depending upon the information and
data that was available to us as as analyst. In short we had to
decide if it was true or if it was horse sh*t and then give what
we considered to be a percentage rating of this fact or fiction...
Petroski: Could you give us a simple example of the criteria that you went
by?
English: Essentialy the basic criteria could consist of any number of
things...Example...We have received a transmission stating
that Commrade Smuck was in Petrograd on such and such a date....
Based on the fact that two days previous we received a transmission
stating that Smuck's secretary had completed his travel
arrangements we then put two and two together and assign a
probibilty rating of 95% to the fact that Smuck is indeed in
Petrograd...Also there was the fact that in many cases we went
on gut feelings based on our own general knowedge and skills in
comparative data analysis. In short we would compare one fact
as presented in a document against another fact that was presented
in a document. This in fact is how I analysed the Grudge/Blue
Book Report since I had no previous knowledge concerning UFOs
prior to encounter this document.
Geest: What did you think when you first read the UFO material?
English: At the time I didn't know what to think.
Geest: Moving forward, after your military service, when did you become
interested in investigating UFO's....
English: You must remember that by this time I was already a civilian. My
then wife was employed by the Department of Defence Schools System
and after my discharge from the service in 1974 I stayed with her
in Germany where we had first met and then she took a transfer to
England that had been offered to her, at RAF Chicksands. I was
employed about a month after our arrival when I met a former
Commanding officer that I had served with in Vietnam. By this time
he was employed by The Department of Defense in the Security
services Command...
Geest: How widespread is the knowldege of Project Grudge, or is there any
way to know?
English: At the time I read the documents, from looking at the traffic log
which is located on the cover of the book it looked like several
foriegn governments as well as the United States were very much
aware of the contents of the Book. The last transmital record
showed that it had come from the American Embassy in Moscow..As
of this moment I cannot begin to guess just how wide spread the
knowledge is...
Geest: could you comment on the names of the various Gouvernments that
were on the traffic log?
English: There were several, the most notable were Canada, England, Soviet
Union, East Germany, West Germany, and I think a couple of the Soviet
Satilite Nations such as Poland, and Yugoslavia....
Becker: I have to ask what probility did you assign the report?
English: Based on the material that was in the book, to include
photographs of what appeared to be Alien bodies, autopsy reports,
Technical reports on several recovered craft, and most particularly
a report that involved me directly while serving in Vietnam, I
assigned the Report a probibility rating of approximately 98.9999 percent...
Geest: ok...Let's move ahead a few years. In the last 2-5 years their has
been a series of "reports" from various sources indicating the US
Government is involved in a coverup of UFO's. Many of these reports
have come from William Moore, John Lear, Bill Cooper, and as of
late one Robert Lazer. Most of these "statements" seem to strech the
imagination of most UFOlogists. Could you comment on the Moore
material?
English: First of all, I would like to state for the record that my claims
are right up there with all of the rest of them as far as
stretching the imagination. However, I will be the first to
acknowledge the fact that the material that I viewed could well
have been fraudulent information that I was supposed to see for
whatever reason. I do not present any of this material as the
god awful truth, I only relate what I saw and what has happened
to me since the viewing of that information. This is something
that I try to make clear whenever I speak on this topic....
As far as Bill Moore is concerned....For the work that he did on the
"Roswell Incident" and several other books, it is my opinion that
he is to be commended. But since then, with a few possible
exceptions, the material that he has presented, most notably the
material that he presented in that garbage television production
"UFO Cover-up Live" is material that he took from interviews with
me back in the late seventies. It is my opinion that everything
he presented as having been the direct result of his investigations
of those two buzzards Falcon and Condor, is a lot of CRAP!
Geest: There seems to be a new version of UFOlogy that is surfacing. We
have reports from Lear, Cooper, etc., It is my thought that these
people are not UFOligists but rather Cases, and as such are not
really UGOlogists....would you care to comment....
English:I have a great deal of respect for John Lear as a man. In all
fairness to John I have not given his material very much thought
since I have not really had the opportunity to view his research
data and material. I cannot say for sure that his material is true,
however I believe that he believes it is. I would also point out
that were it not for John I would still be in hiding in Virginia.
He is the man directly responsiable for me coming out of hiding
and getting back into active investigations and public speaking
on the subject.
Geest: What do you think about the current status of the various UFO
groups around the country, ie are we working together or are we
working against each other?
English: Well, unfortunately it is my feeling that currently we are all
caught in a morass of wheel spinning. During the past two years
I have noticed that very little legitimate investigation is
being done. Not because the desire is not there, but more because
we are forced to listen to such people as Bill Cooper and Bill
Moore. Moore is a jerk in my estimation, but there doesn't seem
to be anyone quite like Bill Cooper. Most of the organizations
have allowed themselves to become factioned by Cooper's statements
and such based upon their own personal beliefs and the horse sh*t
that Cooper spreads...There was a time when these organizations
were devoting themselves to serious research. When Cooper showed up
it seemed that they became involved in other things...Frankly it
is my estimation that all of the UFO Investigative organizations
need to come together and share information of all types in order
to keep from working at cross purposes....UFINET has already
instituted a policy of open cooperation between all UFO
organizations and shares whatever information that it has
available to anyone serious about researching...
Geest: I agree. It seems to me that the sharing of information should be
the focal point, regardless if you are a member of MUFON,
CUFON, or what ever UFO group. one last question.....It seems that
UFO research is not recognized within "the media" and as such we are
now more or less starting our own communications media ie...the PC
and BBS....would you care to comment and please include the number
to your system....
English: I have to agree with you that "the Media" doesn't look upon UFO
research with any degree of seriousness, however I think that
this is more our own fault than anything else. We have no
standardization criteria and as a result we attract those elements
that attempt to take advantage of us and those around us with
regards to research. The simple and basic cure for this would seem
to me to be a coming together as organizations and working out a
standardization of investigative criteria. Once that criteria is
in place and we begin to work within it's frame work, then we will
be recognised by first the scientific community and then the media.
With regard to establishing our own communications network. That
is the natural course of things I think. With PC's and BBS's
becoming more and more available to the everyday persons it is
only natural that we utilize this media to exchange ideas and
information. I don't believe that it is exclusive to just UFO
information but as a whole...I will say that UFINET News and
information service is (as of this moment and besides the government)
the only Professional UFO News and Information Service/Investigation
group in the world. We are not a non-profit organization and
those members of UFINET Who are certified by us are supported by
a host of professional services, to include legal aide, and resource
information..We do however provide a free access system for people
to call and exchange information and investiative reports. that
number is (505) 437-7198. We also have a mainframe computer system
that is accessable through several regional Bell operating companies
and around the world. It is extremely new and we are still waiting
to see what the responce is going to be like...
Geest: I would like to thank Bill English for taking time to speak with us
tonight.......Bill thanks for the interview...
English: My pleasure Ken....
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