SUBJECT: COMPUSERVE CONFERENCE TRANSCRIPT 2/19/89 FILE: UFO3220
[The following is a transcript from the February 19, 1989 Online CompuServe
conference with publisher, editor Vicki Cooper. Vicki has been affiliated with
UFO Magazine since its start in 1986]
User User ID Nod Rm Name / Forum Area
---- ------------ --- --- -----------------
13 75376,1620 CVK 5 Wedge
23 73240,52 HAR 5 Alf
26 74270,3360 LTS 5 Vicki
42 73720,1605 VAN 5 Joe Holland
46 76430,144 FTL 5 Mike Troyer
47 71450,3504 ANN 5 Bert
57 71211,2467 ALL 5 JAY
60 76012,3361 MRT 5 Ted
61 71340,276 SOR 5 Mark.Y
64 75206,2130 SFM 5 Damien Barkan
72 72727,2312 CVA 5 baj
77 76703,266 DUK 5 G-WIZ
84 72210,1213 DEQ 5 Michael Corbin
92 72135,424 PNX 5 Jim Speiser Drax:
93 72406,1736 HLY 5 Darrell Green
97 70511,17 CRZ 5 Mike in absentia
108 72677,360 DCD 5 Jennifer Ross
Ted: Tonight we are fortunate to have as our special guest, Ms. Vicki Cooper [NO
relation to Bill Cooper]. Vicki is co-publisher and editor of UFO magazine. In
the past, Vicki has been editor for L.A. Parent Magazine and has written for the
L.A. Times. In recent issues of UFO Magazine Vicki has been focusing on what she
terms the "Control Factor." Before I open the floor screen?: to questions
perhaps you could explain what it is you mean by the "Control Factor." Also if
you have any prepared opening remarks this would be a good time to share them
with us. Ok Go Ahead Vicki. GA
Vicki: I want to start out by emphasizing a news article that has just appeared
in the new issue of UFO. An investigative journalist in Wash. DC has received
dependable information from sources who formerly worked at the Pentagon and who
sat in on daily briefings with the Joint Chiefs of Staff. These sources have
outlined a tight and complex internal command structure for dealing with the UFO
situation, directed from the Pentagon's Natl. Military Command Center and
encompassing just about every "Known" Authority/Agency within our government and
intelligence apparatus. It would appear as if the notorious "secret team" which
has orchestrated extensive and world wide covert operations in the name of
"national security" is just as entrenched in directing and manipulating UFO
research. In answering about the "control Factor": I see it in much the same
light as Jacques Vallee. It seems to be a curious combo of an unseen force and
influence by forces in very earthly intelligence communities. Infiltration,
manipulation of the public perception of the UFO phenomenon. ga
Ted: I will now open the the floor for ? GA
Joe Holland: Can I ?
Bert: ?
Damien: ?
Ted: Ok Joe GA
Joe Holland: I don't understand your article about film producer Bob Emenegger.
Was he first offered the Holloman film by the Air force, and was it then
withdrawn by higher ups in the Pentagon? Was the content of the film described?
Why does Emenegger think the Air Force has no secrets?
Vicki: Frankly, I've had a number of conversations with Emenegger and I think
he's unduly influenced by the AF. He SAYS he was first exposed to the Holloman
film when he and filmmaker Alan Sandler were making a public relations film for
the Defense Dept. He saw the film as an aside and has stated that it did in fact
depict a saucer landing and GET THIS!: blue aliens getting out of the thing!! ga
Wedge: ?
Ted: Bert is next Ga
Bert: Vicki, first I think there may have been a line missing from your opening
statement. Could you check that, as there appeared to be reference to someone
who had sat in on joint chiefs meeting ?: You have devoted a couple of issues of
UFO to the News media and how they deal, or don't deal, with the UFO phenomenon.
We also hear from time to time that there are people in the big media that
suppress the issue can you comment on this possibility? ga
Vicki: Big Media probably has suppression coming from both owners and the FCC,
for various reasons. The biggest suppression, in my opinion, is the refusal by
their top notch journalists to take the subject SERIOUSLY! ga
Ted: Damien next GA
Damien: Sorry, my first time on a conference I pass...
Drax: ?
Michael Corbin: ?
Ted: GA Wedge
Wedge: Vicki, since you have one of the best UFO Magazines in the country, and
seem to bring out good information, have you been under any in your estimation:
any kind of scrutiny by higher ups or have you had any strange things happen to
you? ga
Vicki: I believe they have an interest in us, for obvious reasons, but as far as
intense scrutiny--lets say I feel the control factor shadow over me, but I
cannot quite put my finger on things. It's one of the weirdnesses I experience
all the time. I'm sometimes, ummmm, spooked! ga
Ted: DRAX <nice to have you back!> ga
Drax: Thanks, Ted, good to be back. Vicki, can you elaborate any on the
investigative journalist and his source's information? Specifically, does his
info resemble the MJ-12 infrastructure at all? GA
Vicki: A great question. It so happens that lately as I look at the reporter's
article, I'm nervous at how the coordination between the infrastructure he
describes fits in maybe a little too neatly with MJ-12 info. I also received a
flow chart from a researcher here that the Pentagon sources also corroborated
somewhat. This guy told me that publishing the flow chart would invite undue
scrutiny from government types...EEK! It's in this latest ISSUE. If you don't
hear from me, it's been nice!ga
Ted: Thanks for the CO-OPERation Vicki. GA Mike Corbin
Michael Corbin: Nothing at this time, Ted.
Ted: I guess I will ask a question. Vicki, how long has UFO Magazine been in
circulation and over that period of time what changes have you seen in the UFO
phenomenon? GA
Vicki: We published our first issue in '86. It's been less changes in the field,
for me, than changes in my perception and attitude about things. The influence
of this control factor and what I am convinced is intelligence manipulation has
made me more hardnosed and interested in getting facts, about just what the hell
the gov't is up to. Suppression, cover-up, is only part of the story. GA
Michael Corbin: ?
Wedge: ?
Ted: Vicki, can you give us a specific example of how the CONTROL FACTOR has
affect you? GA
Vicki: DAMN. I wish I had great specific examples. What I observe is some
manipulation of the field and of cases, I believe, so that research is
contained. Nothing ever really gets done as far as opening things up. And it has
affected me by making me increasingly aware of the relationship between covert
action in general which runs outside of public scrutiny and the manipulations of
people and information in this field. I have felt that our mag has perhaps been
"fed" information. For instance: There is just too much emphasis on the MJ-12
stuff. I feel it could be a diversion. From what? That's the question. GA
Ted: Mike C next GA
JIM: ?
M. Corbin: Ted, you asked the ? I was going to, but Vicki, do you feel that
there is any way to get a more specific handle on where this "feeding" is coming
from....Are they sources or people writing columns. ga
Vicki: I think--and I stress, think--that sources who are ostensibly gov't. and
intel. connected jam the circuits with outrageous and untestable info in order
to distract and fragment. I know from history that the CIA, for example, has
infiltrated media. The NY Times published an excellent article in the '70s that
dealt with just that type of domestic infiltration.
Ted: Ok Mike, Follow? ga
M. Corbin: Assuming this to be true and the fact that there is so much emphasis
on MJ-12, could there be an intelligence connection to this and the show that
aired in October? ga
Vicki: Absolutely. It seems there was undue influence from the Moore Shandera
duo in that program. And let's face it. They would as much as admit that they
play closely with spookery in order to promote their MJ-12 scenario. They would
not, of course, use the word "promote." But the outcome is just the same. Condor
and Falcon are turkeys of the first order, in my estimation! ga
Ted: Wedge is up GA
Wedge: Vicki, I can remember a time when I would get on here on Sunday nights
with Speiser and we would talk about lots of other things than UFO's, because
they were not in the news. Why do you think UFO's are coming back at this time?
Do you have any theories on this and the gov't position at this new flap time?
Vicki: Maybe UFOs are back because it's a "sexy" topic! They also seem to be
flying around, lots. Lots is going on. I believe the gov't may have a vested
interest in, if not helping with quality information, at least keeping the
subject, the UFO myth, somewhat alive in people consciousness. For my part, I
simply can't stop being absorbed in all this stuff. It's a matter of keepin'
on. GA
Drax: ?
Ted: If a CompuServe member wanted to contribute an article or paper to UFO
Magazine what kind of material are you looking for, what criteria do you use to
accept or reject submissions and how should they go about making the submission?
GA
Vicki: We're always looking for good case material, but we play... Opinion
pieces are always a good place to start. I, of course, appreciate people who
can write well and I have a particular fondness for material that helps unplug
the secrecy constraints. That's why the guy in D.C., with the Pentagon and
State Dept. sources, I feel can bring more credibility and brass tacks to the
magazine. GA
Ted: GA Drax
Drax: That touches on something I want to ask about. UFO Magazine claims to
provide a forum for theories on ETs, etc. You also want to get down to brass
tacks, as you say, and contribute to an ultimate solution. What happens if you
find those two goals at odds with each other? For instance, what if you find you
are giving a forum to individuals or groups who you feel are not contributing to
finding the solution, and may in fact be detrimental to that goal? Where would
you draw the line? GA
Vicki: It's one of the biggest problems with UFO. I have felt that as I said, we
have been fed info at times. As an editor, with some integrity, it would be my
job to expose such falsities. But I almost need to understand the complexities
of the entire intelligence profession to know what's going on! It's something
that troubles me. Also, Sherie [Sherie is the co-publisher with Vicki] and I
both believe that we have to be open to the larger picture.
Any suggestions? GA
Bert: ?
Drax: Sorry I have to vacate the premises. Bye. Thanks Vicki!
Vicki: Bye, Jim. Sorry to see you go.
Ted: Wedge is next <sorry, I was knocked off for a minute - Control Factor????:
GA Dale
Wedge: Vicki...would you care to discuss your thoughts about any investigations
going on i.e. Gulf Breeze, etc: and how you view them or the organizations that
sponsor the investigations?ga
Vicki: The organizations involved with Gulf Breeze, etc., MUFON, other
investigators, are probably influenced by the control factor, mainly because if
the Robertson Panel directives are still in operation, they're infiltrated.
Also, it seems there are few investigative standards that everyone can agree
upon. The Gulf Breeze case has gotten a lot of attention from media and from the
mainstream ufological community. I am always suspicious of those types of cases.
For Chrissakes! None can even agree if Mr. Ed. is a credible individual. Frankly
I can't stand UFOs that look like upside down teapots. I'm for the good old
shiny disc. GA
Wedge: I think Ted got knowcked off again. GA M. Corbin.
M. Corbin: Thanks...
Ted: I'm back!
Wedge: I let M. Corbin go Ted.
Ted: Bert is next and then Mike C
Bert: Vicki, do you know of any people at all in the government I'm thinking
mainly of congress: who are interested and/or are making an effort to confront
the UFO issue? GA
Wedge: !
Vicki: I know of no names of congresspersons. But I do know there is one man,
whose name escapes me who is or was a special asst. to Sen. Claiborne Pell. He
has apparently interfaced with some UFO researchers and allegedly has an
interest in the phenomenon. I just cannot believe, in this tight administration
run by a former CIA director, that it would be in the interest of any
congressperson to openly address the UFO issue. You know, of course, Heh-heh:
that our Mr. Moore claims that members of congress are interested in hearing the
testimony of Falcon and Condor. Now, who would be the birdbrain in such a
situation?? GA
Ted: Mike Corbin <New ParaNet-Alpha Sysop and Manager> ga
M. Corbin: Thanks, Ted. Vicki, I am really curious with all of the purported
allegations of a government 'disinformation' campaign, what the real truth could
be to the phenomenon. Since MJ-12 deals with so much bizarre activity, what is
left for us to speculate about what the real truth is? Any feelings on this? ga
Vicki: Mike, as you typed your question, it went off the screen. But I believe I
have the gist of it. First of all, from a number of "independent" sources,
there appears to be a coordinated scenario that depicts, to be brief, an active
inner gov't. team which has in-depth knowledge about UFOs and also apparently
has interfaced with the aliens. That's the portrait which is somewhat
haphazardly being put before the public. It's known that the CIA practices
disinformation by stabilizing lines of propaganda that fulfills their own
mysterious purposes. I of course can't be sure, but I believe the scenario has
some important relationship to our defense stance. And I mean conventional
defense stance. It makes me think that there is need for this in what they'd
call a national security sense. It's too deep and too political for me to
fathom, but it relates to what technology we have, or at least what they'd want
us and others KGB?: to THINK we have. Do you see? For someone in my capacity,
it's all speculation. Exciting, bizarre cloak 'n' dagger, but speculation,
nonetheless. GA
Ted: Wedge GA
Wedge: I was just going to add that there is a Congressman from Florida who is
interested in the lake Erie sighting. He has oversight connections to the Coast
Guard which was at the scene of our case. This is being worked on at this
moment. Lastly, do you see any type of religious interaction with what is going
on in the UFO scene. This was something that many have brought up on this
Forum? ga
Ted: Dale, what do you mean "oversight connections"? ga
Wedge: The Congressman has oversight connections to the Coast Guard he sits on
an oversight committee. He wants answers to our case, and has stated that he
would have investigations.ga
Ted: I would like to come back to that in a later CO. OK Vicki GA
Vicki: Get that senator on the phone, quick! Maybe he'd like to take part in the
UFO summit meeting that some people here, and Don, are helping to plan. It would
get all these crazy cards on the table and clear the path for the next big move
in ufology. It will be absolutely crucial to have someone like him, or many like
him, on board. Should I take the time NOW to answer the religious question? More
input, por favor! GA
Ted: Sure, GA
Vicki: It can't be denied--many, many, many people seem drawn to putting UFOs in
a religious context. I think that's a mistake, as far as ufology and fact
gathering go, but what if there ARE aliens, and what if they ARE more "tuned in"
to the force that makes life what it is? If that is the case then we indeed have
an impending transformation in regards to our concept of God. What dismays me,
and apparently contradicts much of what seems to really be going on, is this
vast tendency to want to make the aliens ETs, and to make those ETs benefactors
and holders of some higher, spiritual powers. There are just so many cases of
the aliens who are cut-and-dried and inhumane in what they do to humans. Are
these God-like qualities, Hell, no. It's strange how so many crave space
brothers in this schtick. GA
Wedge: We're talking Good versus Evil. We're not talking about Space Brothers,
we're talking about mis-information on a cosmic scale that deals with a dark
side that's whole purpose is to make people think that it is either a benefactor
race or a Space Brother. Damn, I got to get that paper done I am writing. It
will be out next month, tops.ga
Vicki: In the grand design, I don't know what it all means. Cosmically, it seems
there are these two black-and-white sides. It seems that the human mind wants to
polarize. Both the benefactors and the little grey meanies get lots of press!
The true issue may be man's belief system, the cosmic change it may be going
through. Have you read any of Jacques Vallee's work? He has, I think, a handle
on that sort of thing. Cults are built around these beliefs. That's controlling
at least my framework, at times. If I could only separate the intelligence
shenanigans from the mysterious belief changers who may be coming not from
another planet but from a dimension beyond materiality. GA
Ted: Another dimension? Which dimension is that? ga
Vicki: Take the 405 Freeway to the interstellar offramp. There's a little gin
joint there run by my guru talk about dimensions! Well, the beer is great!
Hee-hee: GA
Ted: Ah HA! I'll bet I'd run into Zephod Bebblebrox sp?: there, Eh? ga
Vicki: Oh, yeah, yeah. GA
Mark.Y: ?
Ted: Ga Mark Y.
Mark.Y: Vicki, have you noticed any correlation between UFO phenomena and other
paranormal activity, e.g., ghosts, demons, witchcraft, etc.? GA
Vicki: I have a "source" here who insists that the occult and witchcraft are a
part of the phenomenon. He's a conspiracy buff and much of his info is hard to
follow. On the factual side, I know there are a number of UFO witnesses who have
experienced extensive psychokinetic activity in conjunction with their UFO
experiences. In some cases there has been a relationship between poltergeist
activity and UFO events. When you look at the details of many abduction cases,
such as the ones Budd Hopkins has researched, time and again there are reports
of the "aliens" floating through walls, floating bodies up, paralysis, etc. And
I think it should be noted that "black" programs in our government may have some
mysterious ways of engendering hallucinations, not to mention psychic research
which could institute the kinds of phenomena that some would call paranormal or
psychic. And you know, the Soviets have been at it longer and with more
seriousness than we have. If we're doing it, baby, it's SECRET!! GA
Ted: Mark, if we are successful, we will have Debra Tomey Kathie Davis of
"Intruders": next SATURDAY for a special afternoon CO. She has had some STRANGE
experiences AFTER her abduction which could be called psychokinetic. Watch the
Message board in the next couple of days to see if we actually can get her. Ok
any other ? for Vicki? ga
Mark.Y: ?
Ted: GA Mark
JAY: !!!!!
Mark.Y: Ok this is a follow-up:. Vicki, would you think that these paranormal
activities could be pretending to be UFOs? GA
Vicki: Before I answer that, let me note that in a book review Don wrote he
tells about the author, Dan Cohen, calling Kathie Davis "the type of person who
reads the National Enquirer." That kind of lambasting is the control factor at
its horrible finest! Now, to your question. Yes. I believe a UFO could be a
fabrication. Look at what we can do already with lasers, with holograms. It's
not really absurd that after years of secret R&D, "we" could have come up with
psychokinetic technology that could damn well mock up just about anything. It
gives a whole new meaning to the boogey-man, doesn't it? GA
Ted: Mark, is that what you meant? ga
Mark.Y: Close. I was thinking more in lines that ghosts, demons or the like
could be pretending to be UFOs particularly in close-encounters 3 & 4 cases:.
GA
Ted: I thought so, GA Vicki
Mike Troyer: ?
Vicki: Wicked demons masquerading as UFOs. You know, I find that idea intriguing
and I wouldn't put it past those buggers. The question is just how could we
tell? Again, it's the absence of hard evidence that has us stuck. Ghosts on the
astral realm may have a real fun time charging people up as blasted UFOs. But
how do you explain encounters over military installations? Cases of UFOs
absorbing pilots, aircraft, throwing off missile launches? Thems some ghosts! Or
should I say "spooks?" GA
Ted: GA JAY
JAY: WHAT TIME SATURDAY? GA
Ted: Jay, we don't know yet. It will probably be in the afternoon if at all
check the message board, say, Tuesday. Anything else JAY GA
Bert: ?
JAY: BIBLE Says that in the last days there would be many sights and wonders in
the sky. ga
Ted: Yes, there sure have been those lately. Any comment Vicki? ga
Vicki: The Biblical references fit in, that's for sure. The Book of Ezekiel is
one that's filled with UFO imagery. I guess on the historical time frame we are
in the "last days." Have you heard about the UFO researchers who became
convinced that UFOs represented the anti-Christ? I still think connecting
religion with actual UFO study and research is a mistake. It confuses the issue
and feeds a mythology that has little connection and no support to gathering
evidence that affixes UFO reality. The Bible-thumpers have a lot of heat, but
very little light. That's not to say that science will have the whole ball of
wax. In the final analysis it would seem UFOs represent an uncanny interaction
between nuts-and-bolts and the tale of humanity outlined in religious myth and
cultural heritage. Now that sounds so high and mighty that it probably doesn't
mean much. I need some hard questions? I interface with just about everybody in
the UFO field! So whattya want to know?? GA
Bert: ?
Ted: Mike Troyer, how about a Hard question? ga
Mike Troyer: Well, as a relative newcomer who's not afraid to appear dumb, let
me ask what seems to me to be the obvious questions:. First, Vicki, have YOU
ever seen what you would describe as a UFO? ga
Vicki: Can you believe it? I've never seen a UFO. But I did see a meteor or
shooting star one night, out near Joshua Tree, CA where there's been lots of UFO
activity. It was so big, and occurred at an emotional moment of conversation.
The timing was such that I felt there was an odd sort of synchronicity to it,
one that implied a form of intelligence to me. In the old days, they would have
called it an "omen." Or, for that matter, a "sign or wonder" in the sky!! I
felt very religious about it for days afterward. GA
Ted: Any follow Mike? ga
Mike Troyer: Secondly, Let me ask you if you BELIEVE in what we commonly refer
to as UFO's? GA
Vicki: You've gotta be kidding! I'm only driven, to the point of OBSESSION, to
do this magazine. I have a strong almost bizarre compulsion to make the UFO
subject more acceptable to wider number of people and there are times, too many
times, when my whole life revolves around doing this magazine and doing it
better and better all the time. You should see the recent issue hold for a
commercial break!: Tons of good stuff, black helicopter info, an inside look at
Strieber's new movie, the gov't. infrastructure and, as we say, much, much more.
I simply am hooked on UFOs and can't let it go. GA
Ted: Bert Ga
Mark.Y: ?
Bert: Vicki, I've just finished reading "Don't Look Up" by Danny Gordon and Paul
Dellinger, who are both journalists. It deals with the sightings going on in
Wythville VA and thereabouts. What's interesting is that here are two
JOURNALISTS who are focusing on over 1000 sightings in the last year or so. Have
you had any contact with these guys? And what do you think generally of the VA
flap? ga
M Corbin: Nite all. Thanks Vicki and Ted. I have enjoyed this!!
Vicki: I've talked to Danny Gordon a number of times and he sends me his
newsletter. He's another journalist who got pulled into the UFO thing. He told
me at times, for him, it was also an obsession, in the same sense as I just
described. He was convinced that it was military activity for the longest time.
Yet the book is filled with drawings that depict the most unusual craft, taken
directly from witness accounts. I can't help thinking that the Wytheville flap
could be an example of a manufactured UFO wave. But the book tells tale after
witness tale of sightings. Many were are: huge craft that flew at unbelievably
high or low speeds. "Don't Look Up" is reviewed in this issue. I like Danny. He
gave a presentation before UPI reporters in VA, wherein he tried to rally them
to look seriously at the subject and begin doing their job as reporters with it.
Incidentally, a known NY journalist, Howard Blum, is writing a book on the UFO
cover-up. He has written about espionage, about the Walker Spy case, for one. I
love seeing journalists doing there thing for UFOs. Every little bit helps. GA
Bert: follow
Ted: GA Bert
Bert: I guess we also need to keep in mind that Danny Gordon has had 29
sightings himself at the time the manuscript was finished:. One further
question, how much of an impact do you think the upcoming abduction movies
Communion, Intruders, Fire in the Sky: are going to have on the general public's
perception of what may be going on. Seems to me it could have a major effect,
since movies are something people discuss more openly with each other. ga
Vicki: It's curious, though, how movies are talked about, but often the
information in them is dismissed after a short time. It's possible these flicks
could have a short-term effect. Just last night here in CA, we discussed the
effect of using that immediate public reaction to those films to galvanize
public sentiment toward getting loud about the UFO thing. We are considering a
form of "leafletting" about the UFO summit outside the theaters for example. I
try to fight that depressing feeling that people can be exposed again and again
to this information and yet just sit on their duffs when it comes to doing
something. There seems to be a "veil" up. That's the stigma that surrounds the
UFO area. It's been there for SO long! What is it going to take to break that
veil? We need proof that we can slap everyone with. Until the phenomenon makes
itself more "present" it may be the usual frustration. Any idea on what will
mobilize public sentiment? Sometimes I feel that if I could do it, I'd arrange
an abduction encounter for Dan Rather!! Just kidding. I would not wish that on
anyone. But what will do it? What will do it? GA
Bert: !
Ted: Good ?. I guess there are no good answers. Mark Y. is next GA Mark
Mark.Y: Pass
Ted: GA Bert
Bert: Just wanted to note that since the MUFON meeting in Las Vegas will have
COVERUP as it's theme, that might be cause to attempt a media alert. GA
Ted: Any other ?s ga
Ted: Vicki, I want to thank you for spending your Sunday evening with us. I has
been a very enjoyable experience for us. I hope that soon you will become a
REGULAR here on our forum. I also want to thank Don Ecker for the time he spent
helping to put this CO together. Thanks Guys and Gals! Vicki, any final
comments? ga
Vicki: Thanks for this opportunity, Ted. I hope to be able to be on the forum
regularly. By the way, Don urges response to his HUMMUT.TXT! Again my thanks. GA
Ted: Nite all!
Bert: Thanks, Vicki and Don.
Vicki: Nite, stay happy.
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