SUBJECT: NEW AGE FORUM 21-JUN-92 FILE: UFO2964
*********** New Age Forum 21-Jun-92 15:47:35
David/Moderator: Gentlemen, I think we need to call this CO to official
| order, is that OK with everybody?
Jeff Morrow: yes.
Joe Balsamo: yep
Steve | Yes
David - the other o: go
David/Moderator: OK.. here we go, first I must get the formalities out of
| the way so....
| I am the moderator and will basically run the CO, if you have a
| question type a ?, if you have a comment type a !....
| I will then call on you each in turn, please do not interrupt
| whomever is speaking, when your called on, please send a OK...,
| so ..
| that we know your typing your message. Finish each line with a
| set of elipses, such as ....,. When you finished, send a GA
| to...
| indicate you are finished. Everyone understand?...ga
Joe Balsamo: Yes
Jeff Morrow: yes
David - the other o: yes
David/Moderator: Ok...
| Joe I think you had something to say?...ha
| Sorry, I mean ga
Joe Balsamo: Well, how many people here are familiar with the database
| project that we have been discussing in previous COs? GA
David - the other o: !
David/Moderator: David, ga
David - the other o: I know of it's existence. It seems there is some
| concern on duplication of
| efforts. GA
David/Moderator: There is concern that we don't want to duplicate the
| efforts of groups like CUFOS and MUFON......
| however we are still trying to continue with the thing and
| talking with these groups in turn....ga
David - the other o: It seems there are two ways to go. A distribute base
| or a central base everyone chips into...GA
David/Moderator: Ok...
| actually we are taling of doing a combo of each. This Forum
| would be the central base, for now, but the DB would....
| also be distributed through the normal UFO networks around the
| country....
| The long term goal is to have a Forum dedicated to UFOs and a
| database that may be accessed online by anyone....ga
Joe Balsamo: !
David - the other o: ? How far has it gotten in design? GA
David/Moderator: ok...
Peter Baitz: !
David/Moderator: Good question, we started preliminary designed about 2
| weeks ago, and we going to continue discussion here today...
| Nothing has been finalized yet because it involves so much
| data..
| Joe > GA
Joe Balsamo: Personally, since David and I are going to the MUFON
| convention in New Mexico, I'd like to wait until we have had a
| chance to speak
| to some of the other people...
| with UFO databases before we determine a final design. At this
| point, any and all suggestions are welcome. Obviously, this
| thing
| could turn into a logistical nightmare if we don't get support
| from some of the bigger groups...
| people on CIS have NO means to check out UFO reports, so I
| think our job would be more of a centralized clearing house for
| data.
| We just don't have the structural organization to do followup
| reporting. GA
David/Moderator: Peter > GA
Peter Baitz: Greetings all! I am here finally. How is it going today? GA
David/Moderator: Not so bad, we discussing the database as you can
| see.....
David - the other o: !
Peter Baitz: hello
David/Moderator: Hello
Steve | !
David/Moderator: You here Peter, we got you. David F, did you have
| something to say? ga
David - the other o: ok...
| Yes. A meeting with the other groups is imperitive for
| compatability...
| I would guess that the info is not in the same soft or
| standardized entry...
| forms. It might be a good idea to inquire or propose such a
| standard. Also...
| in line with the idea of centralize clearing house. A
| directory of directions...
| for research. you know something like "I'm too busy to deal
| with this right...
| now but it would be interesting to know...".
| Also maybe a request for data registry...GA
David/Moderator: Steve > GA
Steve | Do you intend to list sightings and call for local support in
| documenting the event?
Joe Balsamo: !
David/Moderator: Ok...
| Thats an interesting point, and one frankly thats never been
| brought up before, but it is something that should be ....
| considered. As Joe said before, since he and I are attending
| the MUFON symposium next month, and we're going to talk to...
| several researchers there, it may not be a bad idea to wait and
| see what they have to say about the whole thing.....
| Joe > GA
Jeff Morrow: !!
Joe Balsamo: Ok...
| I think that everyone needs to think about what they'd like to
| see in a database for doing UFO research. Obviously, we want
| this
| thing to be comprehensive, but compatible as well...
| this point, we need to talk to the orgs such as CUFOS and MUFON
| and go on from there. I think that it might be more productive
| for
| us to hold off talking...
| he database until Dave and I get back for the symposium.
| Perhaps we should concentrate on the online newsletter which is
| standalone and totally...
| ndent upon just our group...what do you all think? GA
David/Moderator: Jeff > GA
David>the other: !
Steve | ?
Jeff Morrow: Thanks, David! I agree with Joe. ...
| Each of these groups has its own adgenda, and we are not in the
| position...
| to do our own field inveestigation at this time. In order to
| function ...
| as a central database, we must have the support of at least
| some of the ...
| current research organizations. I have found that all these
| groups...
| pretty much guard their data, and don't mix well. I think you
| should test...
| the waters at the conference before jumping into the database,
| but let's...
Peter Baitz: !
Jeff Morrow: proceed with the newsletter. I also see that I'm being
| paged, and havt leave in a minute. ...
| I'll pick up the rest from the transcript. Ga
David/Moderator: Sorry to see you go, put I'll post the transcript ASAP,
| David > GA
David>the other: OK...
Jeff Morrow: Thanks. Bye. Ga
David>the other: I concur with Joe and Jeff about the Newsletter. It is
| more immediately doable...
| The key to approaching the other groups is to be valuable to
| them...
| Provide a service that eventually they find they can't do
| without. It ...
| Must cost some bucks to keep the individual nets up and
| running...
| even with late night data exchanges. Researchers do tend to
| cover thier...
Steve | !
David>the other: data territory rather close until they are ready to
| publish...GA
David/Moderator: I agree completely with what you and Joe and Jeff
| say.....Steve > GA
David>the other: ?
Steve | I agree with Joe on the newsletter, But I must have missed the
| initial
| premise of the database, would someone please explain.
Joe Balsamo: !
David/Moderator: Joe your good at that, would you care to take the ball
| for a minute? GA
Joe Balsamo: Sure...
| First, I would suggest that everyone download the first two CO
| transcripts...
| these give a detailed description of what we have been
| discussing. In a nutshell, we wanted to create a central
| database...
| that would be available to anyone in the UFO field. It would
| include all verifiable contacts, CE I-V, and any other
| pertinant
| types of information...
| e CIS is international and available to so many, it would be an
| ideal place for all of this data to be stored. GA
David/Moderator: Peter, sorry for the wait > GA
Peter Baitz: No problem. I was just taking it in- catching up....
| I see the database , now as a catalog in database form...
| of existing and any new (via CIS and others) UFO related
| reports. GA
Joe Balsamo: !
David/Moderator: David > GA
David>the other: OK...
| Comment first...that's just the line to take when pitching the
| idea to the othergroups...
| Question is ... who edits the newsletter...I suggest Jeff cause
| he's not here?...GA
David/Moderator: he he he, Joe > GA
Joe Balsamo: OK...
Peter Baitz: !
Joe Balsamo: First, is anyone else in this group planning on going to the
| MUFON symposium? Secondly, I suggest we discuss the online
| newsletter
| and who all here right now is interested in participating? GA
David>the other: !
Peter Baitz: !
David/Moderator: David > GA
David>the other: ok...
| I'm not gonna be able to get anywhere near AZ cause of busyness
| here in the city...I second the motion to table...
| Database discussion and move on to the newsletter...I've got
| some time I can give...GA
David/Moderator: OK. excellent! Peter > GA
Peter Baitz: I am interested as well. What will be the format of the
| newsletter...
| -a lump of articles? - one file? Where are we so far inthis
| regard? GA
David/Moderator: Ok....
| For now we will table the Database idea until Joe and I have a
| chance to dicuss it with the people at the symposium.....
Peter Baitz: !
David/Moderator: Now for the Newsletter, I don't know what the format
| will be, ASCII I suppose, perhaps a series of files, maybe
| pictures, maybe ...
| all ZIPped together. Comments? Peter > GA
David>the other: !
Peter Baitz: Thanks.....
Steve | !
Peter Baitz: I was in fact interested in the newsletter, just to nake it
| clear....
| Ok GA
David/Moderator: OK great......David > GA
David>the other: ok...
| I've seen some impressive online newsletters (colors menu
| capabable)...
| Morning Star avaliable in one of the libs here is one...But I
| don't know what
| soft...
| they use to put it together...propriatery or unique I suppose.
| A start to get
Joe Balsamo: !
David>the other: us moving fast would be ascii zipped then upgrade.
| Does anyone know where/whatmorning star uses?...GA
David/Moderator: OK....
| Joe you go first, then Steve you follow...ga
Joe Balsamo: Thanks...
| I just called a friend of mine who is a newsletter expert and
| she is going to join us...hopefully she'll be here in just a
| sec...GA
Steve | ASCII & GIFF'S, YES! ZIPPED,
| THE MORE THE BETTER .=> GA
David/Moderator: Good deal, I think we're on to something here!..ga
Joe Balsamo: Hi Deb!
Deb Carlen: Hello, o spiritual master.
David/Moderator: Welcome Deb, how are you today? ga
Deb Carlen: No one else could call me out on a nanosecond but you.
| ga
Joe Balsamo: If I might but in for a moment...
David/Moderator: Ok Deb,....
| Ok Joe > GA
Deb Carlen: Someone should re-state the rules for me. GA
Joe Balsamo: deb is a newsletter expert :)...I think her advise in this
| area could be the difference between total success or
| failure...sorry
| david, thanks for indulging us!...GA
David/Moderator: OK... deb the rules are simple....
| If you have a comment type a ! if you have a questions type a
| ?, I will call on you in turn with the others....ok...ga
Deb Carlen: Dave, thank you; Joe, you are too kind. ...GA
David/Moderator: OK.. Deb, do you know what we trying to do here? ga
Deb Carlen: Not really; vaguely ga
Joe Balsamo: !
David/Moderator: Joe, I take it youd like to explain? GA
Joe Balsamo: OK...
| Basically what we are doing is formulating the idea of
| producing a UFO oriented newsletter....
| right now, it will probably start out in electronic form, but
| that is not to say that we may not want it to be in 'real' form
| later...
| Aside form that, the floor is open to suggestions. GA
David/Moderator: If I may....
| The newsletter would encompass UFO sights, reports,
| investigations, and theories from around the world....
| it would have articles, pictures perhaps, and reports from
| investigators. Thats my idea basically, any others? ga
Deb Carlen: ! and ?
David/Moderator: Deb > GA
Deb Carlen: Sorry to be late to the idea...
| but if it's a fax NL, who's doing what...
| there are so many things I want to tell you about the effort I
| don't know where to start
| ga
David>the other: !
David/Moderator: David > GA
David>the other: ok...Simple start would be bundle of articles/gifs ect
| zipped together left in...
| Library and/or sent to a mailing list on/offline. I've seen
| soft that makes online look really good. We (have we?) chose
| Jeff as editor
| what was that???...
Joe Balsamo: !
David/Moderator: The editor is still up for grabs.....
David>the other: Chosing strawboss, contributers (putting out a call for
| submissions), format,...what else...GA
Deb Carlen: !
David/Moderator: At this point its me and Joe, buts ANYONE else is
| welcome!
David>the other: JEFF!!
David/Moderator: Joe > GA
| Joe > GA
Joe Balsamo: OK...
| David the othe, I appreciate you wanting to volunteer Jeff
| ;)...but since he isn't here, I think we need to make sure the
| editor
| will be someone that is impecably reliable. The staff is going
| to have to consist...
| going to be able to stick with this thing. That is, IMHO, the
| most important aspect. GA
David/Moderator: Deb > GA
Deb Carlen: I suggest (humbly, please) that whomever's to be involved on
| any level, take the course I teach...
| and I'll get you in for free. I'm in the midwest in July.
| Where are you all (y'all) located?
| ga
David/Moderator: Well I'm in Missouri...ga
Deb Carlen: St. Louis - July 7 ga
David>the other: NYC
Joe Balsamo: Well, looks like David is it ;)
Deb Carlen: Just missed you; the boss is there now but I can't get you in
| there til next time ga
David/Moderator: July 7, I can make that, where...ga
Deb Carlen: St Louis Marriott West - I'll email you details; be sure I
| get your CIS id. GA
| !
David/Moderator: Good deal, Joe has my Id if you need it. Deb > GA
| again!
Deb Carlen: Sorry... just wanted to say that the course covers all
| aspects of NL production: writing, editing, DTP etc. I just
| missed Joe in SDiego,
| ga
David/Moderator: Cool.. I'll look forward to it.....
Joe Balsamo: !
David/Moderator: OK, so I'll be editor, for some reason, and Joe is gonna
| be assitant editor, right Joe? GA
Deb Carlen: ?
Joe Balsamo: Uh, er, yeah sure!...
| I was just going to mention that we have lost about half of our
| group...I wonder what we should do at this point? GA
David/Moderator: Deb > GA
Deb Carlen: What is anticipated scope of editorial mix/target audience?
David>the other: !
Deb Carlen: ga
Joe Balsamo: !
David/Moderator: David > GA
Deb Carlen: Sorry David/Mod
David>the other: OK...
| How about the client nets first then broaden it out to general
| public if there'sinterest...ga
Deb Carlen: !
David/Moderator: Joe > GA
Joe Balsamo: ok...
| I was pretty much going to echo what David other said (jeez,
| can we call one of you guys dave?) but I think that it will
| start out
| as an online NL...
guys dave?: !
Joe Balsamo: and then progress to a physical nl from there. Obviously,
| the people that are going to be interested are the same people
| on here,
| and if it is good...
| it will just grow from there, hopefully...hahahah (guys dave,
| love it!) GA
David/Moderator: If I may interfect something.....
| It might not be a bad idea to make the thing proprietary of
| this Forum, but allow PUBLIC ditribution....
| I have several friends with private networks who would be
| interested in helping to distribute it.......Deb > GA
| BTW call me BOSS....;-)
Deb Carlen: OK: Boss, guys Dave & Joe...hmmm we've got a lot to consider.
| You're giving away copyright, yes?...
David/Moderator: Deb . GA
NOT da BOSS: ?
Deb Carlen: if you're making it proprietary/ok to public distrib
| OK da Boss, but da means something else to me ;)
NOT da BOSS: :)
David/Moderator: OK da > GA
NOT da BOSS: ok...
| Question one can you keep Copywrite and still make public
| nonlimited distr?...seems I've seen it done...
Deb Carlen: !
NOT da BOSS: Question two having given away copywrite can it be regained
| down the road?
| ...ga
David/Moderator: Remember folks, we are in a FORMAL CO here.....
| Deb > GA
Deb Carlen: NO; IT'S A USE IT OR LOSE IT LAW. It would take an hour to
| explain.
| but I'll send you all email. ga
David/Moderator: Well...
| we want it availble to everyone, but I would think we also
| would want it clear just WHERE it came from...ga
Deb Carlen: 1
| !
David/Moderator: Deb > GA
Deb Carlen: OK...
| You can do that and still maintain a certain amt of control...
| but I think we're jumping the gun (my fault actually)...
JOE | do what?
Deb Carlen: to get into this before the edit/mktg is set up. ga
David/Moderator: Joe,....
| this is a formal CO discussing the possiblity of starting a
| electronic UFO newsletter.
| Joe B, do you have anything to say....ga
Joe Balsamo: ?
| Yes...
David/Moderator: Joe B > GA
Joe Balsamo: I was just going to as Deb, since she is our resident
| expert, what we should do first. At this point, what do you
| suggest, besides
| David taking the course? GA
Deb Carlen: !
David/Moderator: Is this course free?............Deb > GA
Deb Carlen: Usually $295. I have some discretion with guests.
| It's a full day. You'll be exhausted.
| ga
| !
David/Moderator: OK, I hope you have a LOT of descretion with guests! ;-)
| Deb > GA
Deb Carlen: Hmmm. This could be interesting...
| First, draw up a list of topics...
| then a preliminary format, concurrent with a mktg plan ga
David/Moderator: Anyone have any suggestions for any of these
| suggestions? GA
Dave | !
Joe Balsamo: !
David/Moderator: Dave > GA
Dave | OK...
| Info gathering (esp from GOV'T ie FOIA), contacts of field
| workers, history of areas...ga
David/Moderator: Joe > GA
Joe Balsamo: OK...
Dave | !
Joe Balsamo: I was going to suggest that we gather the topics and such in
| a manner similar to the one we were going to do with the
| database...
| les post a message on UFO forum suggesting what we are up to
| and ask the group what topics and the like they'd like to see...
| The stuff that Dave mentioned is a good start (BTW, I have ALL
| of the FOIA's ever filed dealing with UFOs) GA
Deb | !
David/Moderator: Dave > GA
Dave | OK...
| also sociological effects of the concept (RAW Higher
| intelligence, Benevolent space brothers ect)...
Joe Balsamo: !
Dave | I agree with Joe on posting a rfc but we can't depend on it...GA
David/Moderator: Deb > GA
Deb | use Joe's/Dave's suggestions you'll need 2 senior copy editors
| right off the bat. Info processing will be enormous.
| that's OK but be prepared.
| ga
Dave | !
David/Moderator: Joe > GA
Joe Balsamo: OK...
| I assume by RAW, you mean Robert Anton Wilson?...
Dave | Yes
Joe Balsamo: This is something we need to discuss right off the bat is
| just how far in which direction we want to go with this nl...
| do we want it to be purely scientific, or do we want to explore
| ALL possibilities. GA
David/Moderator: Dave > GA
Deb | !
Dave | ok...
| I was thinking this permature but do we want to establish a
| point of contact...
| From what Deb just said (a bit upward re copy ed) it sounds
| like there should be one userid where decisions come from...ga
David/Moderator: Deb > GA
Deb | We need a mission statement first first first; that's the
| hardest of all, THEN we do the editorial mix
| And yes, Dave, you need a senior head honcho to make decisions.
| ga
David/Moderator: Ok....
| Since I'm section Leader of the UFO section, I guess I should
| be like main contact?....Also, Deb could you explain this....
| mission statement for me a bit?...ga
Deb | Yup...
| It's a statement of purpose: why the NL will exist...
Dave | !
Deb | it doesn't have to be a major report, just a few sentences. it
| also establishes your credibility. ga
David/Moderator: Dave > GA
Dave | OK...
| SOP Art 1 To support and deseminate research on the phenom
| UFO...ga
David/Moderator: OK....
Joe Balsamo: !
David/Moderator: I think Dave pretty much hit it on the head!
| Joe > GA
Deb | !
Joe Balsamo: I still think we need to be real clear up front which
| approach we are going to take with this...
| as you all well know, one can take a 'purely' scientific
| approach, or one can open it up to all things...what do you all
| think? GA
Dave | !
David/Moderator: If I may....
| I think we should TRY and maintain a combination of a
| Scientific AND Neutral approach instead of leaning one....
| way or the other like other publications do. Lets present the
| facts, as we know them....
| David > GA
Dave | OK...
| The purely sci approach is one open to almost everything...If
| you are saying lets not pander to the fringe...
| I concour...However the phenom itself is so truly weird that
| some strange thingsare gonna come up...I...
| Favor straight reporting and not preaching the great Space
| brothers come to save us from ourselves...
| But those who belive are also a part of the phenom...
| Additionally, the phenom might not be a straight type of thing.
| Constant and open to the objective approach...
| Wasn't it Vallee who was approached by an ex-intelligence
| officer who said that the trouble with...
| the scientific approach in this matter is that science views
| information free for the taking...
| and that ufo's seem to be telling whoever what they want to
| hear? Like an intellop laying lots of mutually...
| conflicting info out there to be taken as gospel....GA
Deb | !
David/Moderator: I'm sorry Deb, please GA
Deb | OK
| This is the type of discussion that results in good
| organization; you may want to ...
| let the idea gel a bit before the statement is written...
| you see how it spins out the ed mix already. You have two
| issues of ideas/topics now.
| ga
David/Moderator: Your right Deb, I think we should think about this
| awhile. What does everyone else think? GA
Dave | !
David/Moderator: Dave > GA
Dave | OK...I'm thinking that it might be time to sked another
| meeting...Deb pse join...
Deb | !
Dave | and pack it in for tonight (working into hour 3 here and I got
| colors coming up)...GA
Joe Balsamo: !
David/Moderator: Deb > GA
Deb | Thanks for asking. Yes. ga
David/Moderator: Joe > GA
Joe Balsamo: She will be right back, David...I agree with what Dave says,
| though.
| whoops...sorry
Dave | huh?
| !
David/Moderator: Dave > GA
Dave | Sundays are good for me but almost any evening will do (Save
| fri/sat nights).
| Say Sunday next same time?
| ga
Deb | !
Joe Balsamo: !
David/Moderator: Deb > GA
Deb | I'm on the road a lot in July but if you email me, I'll show up
| any time but July 12 - I've got an on-air thingie then.
| It was nice to meet all of you.
| ga
David/Moderator: Deb I want to thank you for dropping by....
| its was very nice AND very helpfull. I hope to see you back at
| the next CO!
| Joe > GA
Joe Balsamo: ok...
Dave | !
Joe Balsamo: shall we schedule the next meeting for 5pm EDT July 19th.? GA
Dave | June or July?
David/Moderator: David > GA
| July 19th, is that OK with everyone else??? GA
Deb | ! yes.
Joe Balsamo: Works for me
Dave | Next month is good for me...
David/Moderator: Dave, how about you...ga
| OK, great, then next month July 19th at 5pm EST, I'll set it up
| and Post a message. Anything else? ga
Deb | !
Dave | !
David/Moderator: Deb > GA
Deb | Will you be assigning any tasks for us in the intervening time
David/Moderator: Dave > GA
Joe Balsamo: !
Dave | got make a rfc posting. someone what to make a draft of sop?
| route it around?
David/Moderator: Just a sec here, Joe > GA
Joe Balsamo: ok...
| I think Dave is right, we may want to post a message and gather
| up some thoughts and ideas from everyone so next time we can do
| a
| statenment of purpose. GA
David/Moderator: Yes....
Deb | !
David/Moderator: I'll post a message to everyone here in the Forum, in
| the mean time I would like....
| each of you to think on this a bit, and maybe send me a
| message, or messages, via this forum as to each of your
| thoughts....
| on how to approach this thing.
| Deb > GA
Deb | Never mind; you guys are way ahead of me.
| ga
David/Moderator: We try!!! :-)
| Anything else anybody? ga
Dave | yo
| Does anyone have a CUFON number for NYC?
David/Moderator: I don't, Joe do you?
Joe Balsamo: I have the main CUFOS number: (312) 271-3611
Dave | tks and that's all i got ttfn oo.
David/Moderator: If that all, then I call this CO officially over and
| done with. Pass the bear please!
Dave | growllll ... you can have 'em.
Joe Balsamo: OK, good meeting, too bad we lost half the gang, though!
Dave | Good night all...[poof]
David/Moderator: Good night Dave,
| Deb thanks for coming by, I appreicate it.
Deb | Dobriya noche
| yer welcome
David/Moderator: Thanks, lost me for a sec, :-)
Joe Balsamo: hasta la vista
David/Moderator: Night to you all!
Steve | Bye all
Joe | Take it easy, David.
<EOF>
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