SUBJECT: ASSORTED THINGS FROM BILL ENGLISH & OTHERS FILE: UFO2813

SUBJECT: ASSORTED THINGS FROM BILL ENGLISH & OTHERS FILE: UFO2813

Subj: Re: Coral Castle (8/100)
From: Michael Johnson
To : Bill English
Date: 03/08/91 14:34:57

On 5 Mar 91 21:38:00 Bill English said to Peggy Noonan
>PN>the whole thing was built by one man working alone--he said
>PN>something about having found a secret) and I ask here
>PN>because some people who've told me about the place make
>a
>PN>UFO connection...power wands and all that. If you know
>PN>anything about it, I'd love to hear...Thanks.
>
>
>Peggy,
>
> As a kid living in Florida I and my family spent the
>day visiting the Coral Castle. It was probibly one of the most
>impressive place I have ever seen. With regard to the legends
>surrounding it...well, the guide did talk of it but I think
>that at the time I was most impressed with the gates that weighed
>several tons, but could be opened with just the touch of a

I also grew up in Florida and have been to the Coral Castle many times...the
gates are constructed from old ford truck axles and the gates were hung and
THEN balanced with a chisel made of a leaf spring.
The huge slabs of coral were split from the rockbed with ford leaf springs
also and the ground is still exposed and shows the marks of the tools. He used
a tripod/lever assembly similar to an egyptian design to hoist the slabs to
their present position. The lunar/planetary symbols atop the walls had some
signifigance to the builder and are apparantly to be viewed from an elevated
rock chair set into the center of the garden.

Subj: Re: Wierd Stuff... (9/100)
From: Bill English
To : Dan Brown
Date: 03/07/91 20:45:00

In a message to Bill English <03-07-91 04:40> Dan Brown wrote:

DB> I never say anything signifcant, but at least I do it
DB>with consistancy! <Grin>...
DB>
DB> I was trying to find out of akinesia was in anyway common
DB>in ufo related experiences. I started having (or at least
DB>noticing it) akinesia quite regularly after having a
DB>strange experience when I was six. I was just trying to
DB>find out if it was common, or related so that I could check
DB>it out as an anvenue of exploration...
DB>

Dan,

Now that I know what your talking about, it appears that yes, to a certa
in
degree something like what you described is common to many of the UFO Experience
s
that have been recorded. The most well known being that of Betty and Barney
Hill. If you are familiar with their story, they were apparently paralised when
the UFO interupted their journey. You will also note that in many cases the
victims cannot move until such time as the aliens either tell them to move or
somehow control their movement.

I would be most interested in hearing more about your experience when
you were six years of age. Most abduction/contact cases it seems appear to begin
when the victim is of a very young age. If you wish to keep this slightly more
private, I invite you to call the UFINET BBS and talk to me there.

Kind regards,
Bill English

Subj: Re: Saying nasties..... (10/100)
From: Bill English
To : John Powell
Date: 03/07/91 20:47:00

<GRIN> I like your style....

Bill..

Subj: Re: Colrado Springs area sigh (11/100)
From: Bill English
To : John Powell
Date: 03/07/91 20:49:00

In a message to Bill English <03-05-91 20:18> John Powell wrote:

JP>You just gave me an excellent idea! (And I don't mind
JP>doing the work if Jym won't mind the traffic...)
JP>
JP>If somebody is willing to type up a form letter(s), and
JP>post it here, I'll volunteer to be the caretaker of the
JP>letter(s) and reply to all who ask with a pre-addressed
JP>ready-to-print letter.
JP>
JP>Any takers out there on typing up a letter?
JP>
JP>What do you think Jym? (The traffic would only be the
JP>replies to direct questions or to those who seem
JP>specifically interested.)
JP>

John, If Jym doesn't feel that it's appropriate for the UFO echo then you can
use the UFINET Echo.

Bill..

Subj: Re: Old stuff! (12/100)
From: Bill English
To : Jim Sanders @ 995/113
Date: 03/07/91 21:34:00

In a message to Bill English <03-05-91 10:06> Jim Sanders @ 995/113 wrote:

JS>Bil,
JS>
JS>I have just entered this conference. I did send you one
JS>message concerning a sighting in Northern California back
JS>in 1957 era...
JS>
JS>There are two other old incidents which have never been
JS>explained to my satisfaction. IE:

Jim, nice to hear from you. As it happens I have a ton of old files from the
fifties that have all kinds of case reports in them..

JS>The Capt. Mantell P-51 sighting and chase of UFO out of
JS>Fort Knox, Ky. The investigation reported pilot hypoxia and
JS>crash as he was not carrying oxygen aboard. I have heard
JS>other reports that his crash residue was "hot" with
JS>radiation.. Any in depth on this old one.

The Mantell case was one of the cases that APRO (Aerial Phenomenon Research
Organization) had originally investigated. I have copies of the original investi
gation
reports along with the offical publicity reports concerning Mantell's crash.

According to what I have here, a UFO was sighted on radar and several planes
were scrambled to investigate, among them Captain Mantell. Mantell apparently
chased the UFO successfully to a point and at the same time climbed almost to
his aircrafts limit. According the the APRO report Mantell radioed that he was
at the limit and was about to break off the chase when it was later reported
by the other pilots that a beam of some type came from the UFO and grabbed his
aircraft pulling it along at incrediable speeds. The other aricraft lost sight
of it, however radar was able to track it for a while longer. Radio contact
was apparently lost the moment the beam struck. AT this point the report becomes
a little cloudy. Mantell's aircraft and his body were found shortly thereafter,
but there is no indication from the APRO report nor from the offical Air Force
release indicating that the wreakage was radio active.

JS>Another was radar sigthing out of Selfridge AFB, MI.. They
JS>scrambled an F-89 to intercept... The F-89 was able to
JS>close and report "Had Joy" (radar contact) and the aircraft
JS>and crew were never seen again.. wreckage or any part...
JS>
JS>Are these two in your records ? ? ?
JS>
JS>Jim

I don't seem to be able to find this one in the files, however there are several
similar reports of this nature. Among them are several reports from the White
Sand Missle Test Range here in New Mexico for that time period which tell of
several missles and of chase aircraft that were taken aboard UFOs while in fligh
t
and never seen again. One witness to such an accurance was my father, who was
among the elctronic tracking crew at White Sand at the time.

Hope this answers some of your questions.

Kind Regards,
Bill English

Subj: Re: Cow Blood (13/100)
From: Bill English
To : Curtiss Hahn
Date: 03/09/91 00:34:00

In a message to John Feilke <03-06-91 18:38> Curtiss Hahn wrote:

CH>As I understand it the Lear reports were made up bu John
CH>Lear to discredit UFO groups, is this correct ?

Curtis, no this isn't true. I have known John personally for quite sometime,
and although he's been known to pull a fast one occassionally in order to gauge
a reaction he very sincerely believes the material that he has officially report
ed
on. John and I reach an agreement some time back that I may not necessarily
agree with everything that he says, but I most certainly respect him. I might
add at this point also that John's material is John's research and work, and
not the work of others. I might also add that John most diffinently is not out
to discredit Ufology. In his own right John has made some of his own personal
scrafices for the work that he has done.

Kind regards,
Bill English
UFINET

Subj: Re: Hoagland's Mars (14/100)
From: Bill English
To : Ron Bonds
Date: 03/09/91 00:36:00

In a message to All <03-05-91 21:57> Ron Bonds wrote:

RB>
RB>Has anyone seen the Video "Hoagland's Mars" that has the
RB>computerized graphic fly over of Cydonia? Is it worth
RB>$29.95??

Ron, I have the tape...it is if your interested in that particular topic.

Bill..

Subj: Mars (15/100)
From: Bill English
To : Michael Geggus
Date: 03/09/91 00:39:00

In a message to Boyd Naron <03-07-91 16:29> Michael Geggus wrote:

MG>Boyd, are there any pubilshed or GIF images of the Mars
MG>artifacts around. Reading further I am getting more and
MG>more interested... Mike

Mike, call the UFINET News BBS. LOog on and let me know that your there and
I will make the GIF files that I have available for you.

kind regards,
Bill English

Subj:
From: Bill English, Dan Brown
To : Re: Wierd Stuff...
Date: 03/09/91 7:05:00

> ... it appears that yes, to a certain degree something like what you
> described is common to many of the UFO Experiences that have been
> recorded.

Ok, That's what I was wondering about.
> ...Betty and Barney Hill. If you are familiar with their story...

I've heard of them, but I haven't ready their story. I saw a 'debunker'
movie about them long ago on late night tv, but the movie pretty much led
the viewer to believe that they were two eggs short of a dozen... Other
than that, I'm not familiar with them.

> You will also note that in many cases the victims cannot move until
> such time as the aliens either tell them to move or somehow control
> their movement.

At the onset of this last episode, I tried to fight against the akinesia
(paralysis) and was becomming successful in my attempt, but as soon as I
started making headway, it was like another wave of it hit me but this
tntact cases it seems appear
> to begin when the victim is of a very young age.

Maybe I should type up something and send it your way. I'm feeling more at
ease about discussing my experiences publicly, but privately would be much nicer
.

Subj: Re: Oddities (17/100)
From: Dan Brown
To : John Powell
Date: 03/09/91 11:11:00

In a message to Dan Brown <03-07-91 19:59> John Powell wrote:

> Let's see if I've got it: The left side, bright side, headboard side,
> would also be against a wall? The right side, dark side, foot-of-bed
> side, was where there might have been movement?

Uh... Can you say that fast, three times? <Grin>...

Well, I'm getting confused here! hehe... Let me try to explain it again.
Hopefully I'll do a better job than last time!

I was laying across the bed at a minimal angle, about half way down the
bed. My head slightly toward the upper right side of the bed, feet toward
the lower right. (Laying with the left side of my head on the bed, facing
the headboard which is against the wall.)

From that position, with my left eye, I could see the headboard, and half
of the wall to the right of the bed where my robe generally hangs. with the
right eye I could see a bit more since the bed isn't obstructing my view.
The right eye has better periphery vision due to my position. I wouldn't be
able to see the left side of the bed, since that would be the area behind
my head and out of my view.

From the area behind my head, at the ledt side of the bed, is where I could
see something moving with my periphery vision. I have good periphery vision
as far as the angle of sight, but not in clearity, so I could not
make out a distinct form. I could, however, sense/feel movement, behind me
in much the same way that people are sensitive to heat, air movement, and awaren
ess
of a presence, but not by the actual hard sight of something.

>> I've had similar experiences (without the eye stuff) happen with my wife
>> asleep in the room, but could never move, or speak to wake her. Very
>> seldom am I able to open either eye.
>
> How similar? How many times?

Similar in all points except the eye part, and being in a different position
in the bed. On rare occassions, I find myself in a different place on the bed,
but very seldom. As far as how mant times, well, this has been a regular thing
since I was six years old. (about 29 years.) Up till about six months ago, this
was a monthly episode, and now an then, it would shift to weekly for a month,
then go back to monthly.

>> Just the sound of blood rushing through my ears/head. Sounded like
>> major rushing water.

> One ear or both ears? Would you attribute this to temporarily heightened
> hearing or to a temporary increase in your blood pressure? Which seems to
> you to be more likely?

Both ears... I would say that it is probably due to an increase of adrenal
secretion causing a temporary rise in BP... I'm not a medical doctor, so my
guess is only a guess.

> Smell anything during or shortly after this happenned?

Not that I remember this time. I have smelled kind of a wet paper smell crosse
d
with a "hemp rope" type of smell during similar episodes. I was more caught
up in the "eyes" thing than in smelling...

> Did you notice your own shadow on the bed? Assuming there's a small
> distance between the headboard and the wall, could there have been a
> shadow there? Did you feel any external source of heat?

No shadow that I could notice. The room was evenly lit in all directions.
My head was about two to two and a half feet from the headboard, so I might
not have seen a shadow if there was one...

Heat? Yeah, but not hot heat... just the type of heat exchange you might expec
t
if someone was near you.

> Are you sure your left eye was really opened?

Yup. I switched back and forth from left to right a few times. My left eye
was open, and the room was bright.

> What happenned after?

After the episode with my eyes? or the entire thing... After the thing with
my eyes, I noticed something was movig behind me, and I stopped using my eyes,
shut them and stayed motionless. After that, I don't know what happened until
I apparently woke up with the "Hemispherical perception" thing on my mind, while
i was telling myself that I "hadn't been dreaming."

> How did you feel physically?

As best as I can remember, sore and awake. Like someone had been hitting
me with a two-by-four, but it went away rather quickly.

> What did you do afterwards?

I got up, turned on all of the lights in the house, sat in the front room
with a blanket over me and waited until I got the nerve to go back to bed!

> Given your normal daily routine schedule, if you have one, how did this >
event effect it?

See above... <Grin>... I have no regular schedule anymore. I generally
stay awake until I can't stay awake. Now and then when I don't feel
watched, and I get into a realitivly normal sleeping schedule.

>> You mean there's still hope for us old, long haired, bearded Sysops with
>> glasses!? <Grin>...
>
> Well, I don't know about that Sysop part... <grin>

You're no help! <Grin>...

Take care,

Dan

Subj: Re: Questions, Etc. (18/100)
From: Dan Brown
To : John Powell
Date: 03/09/91 11:14:00

In a message to Dan Brown <03-07-91 20:43> John Powell wrote:

> Sure. Is 916-446-7286 your BBS? I'll give it a call, probably during the
> daytime, and we'll work something out from there. How's that?

Sounds good... or you can try (916)446-0347 [Voice]... I have an answering
machine hooked up, but If I'm here I always pick it up. (Just stay on long enoug
h
for me to get to the phone!) <Grin>...

Subj: Ufinet news bbs (19/100)
From: Michael Geggus
To : Bill English
Date: 03/09/91 07:21:00

Is UFInet News BBS available throught the CONNECT USA network? Just wondering..
....I
did find one GIF which I uploaded here on City Lights BBS of the Face on Mars...
.Mike
Geggus

Subj: Re: QUIET THOUGHTS (20/100)
From: Tessa Hebert
To : David Mayeux
Date: 03/09/91 02:30:00

MSGID: 1:106/342 4d76e648
>What bbs in Houston did you get this information on?? I have
>been looking for a good text file/Message base bbs on psycic
>phen. Do you have the #?
>

Hi. The bbs is Gateway Houston: 723-3981, 723-2820, 723-3619. The sysop's
name is Donald Saxman. It's primarily a message board, but does have a Chat
feature & games.

The New Age board has message bases for dreams, astrology, runes/tarot, parapsyc
hology,
mainstream religion, general new age, and my board (which is called Heaven's
Records). I also have 2 text files in the SHELF, which is located in the new
age discussion message base.

Please do drop in for a visit. I think you'll like the board. (It's user-friend
ly
& you can use a pseudo.)

Subj: BACK TO FUTURE (21/100)
From: Tessa Hebert
To : CHRIS POULSEN
Date: 03/09/91 02:35:00

MSGID: 1:106/342 4d76e788
>You are INSANE if you think Mattel developed a 'hoverboard' as
>featured
>in 'Back to the Future'
>

Well, because my sanity is in question here, I will just have to find that artic
le
that I read in a magazine. I'll go back to the library & find it & give you
the name of the magazine & the date.

I know it doesn't prove my sanity, but I was in the library the other day lookin
g
through their com
* Origin: The Bad Connection !!! (219)663-3107 Crown Point, IN (1:230/15)

Sub: N~UFO
Read: (1-100), Message#21, Replies=0, [C/R]=Next Msg, ? :

Subj: SKEPTIC? (22/100)
From: Allen Gage
To : All
Date: 03/09/91 20:08:55

after reading some of the messages posted. I am still a skiptic but don't want
to be after a couple of nights ago. I live in the north
east and on tuesday theragrees with me about the $295...
but I do have your message and number archived, and will give you a call in
a couple of weeks it I get no takers at $295...

Thanks again for your interest!

Jeff Lindner, SYSOP, ECMUG - BBS of the Mac Users Group in Corvallis, OR (voice
- home) 503-928-6230 (voice - work) 503-753-9217

Subj: CROP CIRCLES - REVISI (23/100)
From: John Morrison
To : Richard Bean
Date: 03/09/91 05:54:36

In a message to John Morrison <06 Mar 91 10:02:00> Richard Bean wrote:

RB> In regard to the Rainbow echo, I haven't the foggiest notion. Only
RB> the sysop knows for sure. I do not really understand just what echoes
RB> are and how they get around. We do get lots of postings on the UFO
RB> network from places all over North America.

Yeah, we do to. That's why I asked, because some of the boards only carry
the UFO echo and you may even be getting the stuff from here from somebody else
besides us. Anyway, I was trying to find a general discussion echo that travels
between here and Irving (area) and all I have found so far is the UFO echo and
I don't want to clutter it up with stuff not pertaining, you know. Thanks for
the info.

-John

--- [Norton] via Quickpoint XRS 3.2 (286)
* Origin: Truth Seeker, Music Lover - Ft. Smith, AR (Quick 1:19/19.14)

Sub: N~UFO
Read: (1-100), Message#23, Replies=0, [C/R]=Next Msg, ? :

Subj: Re: question (24/100)
From: Joan Rodenbaugh
To : Tessa Hebert
Date: 03/09/91 10:49:26

In a message of <Mar 07 02:12>, Tessa Hebert (1:106/9996) writes:

TH> Hi, Joan. I'm interested in discussing some of the more
TH> metaphysical aspects of the UFO's too. I don't understand why we
TH> can't do so on this echo. I think especially since Whitley
TH> Streiber's books have come out that a lot of people are ready to
TH> talk about the "astral plane" stuff involved with the UFO's. It
TH> puts us in the weird position of talking about UFO's on new-age
TH> bases, where we'll probably be told to go talk about UFO's on the
TH> UFO base. (?)
TH>

Hi Tessa, my feelings exactly! Why limit the UFO experience when it is so multi-
faceted?
I know from personal experience that some of these beings are from "other planes
"
of existance. I guess it's hard enough for some people to swallow the fact that
there are UFO's at all, not to mention UFO's from outside of our physical univer
se.
I think Jym will let us know if we stray too far away from topic. I think he
would rather see discussions on the other planes taken to the meta echos unless
it has a direct link to the UFO experience. I just don't know how to avoid cross
ing
the line here.

Regards,

Joan

--- msged 2.07
* Origin: Joan's Point! (1:128/68.3)

Sub: N~UFO
Read: (1-100), Message#24, Replies=0, [C/R]=Next Msg, ? :

Subj: Re: CROP CIRCLES (25/100)
From: Richard Bean
To : John Powell
Date: 03/09/91 08:50:27

The circles are points where a form of energy is being transferred from this
reality to another (more advanced) one. They cannot resist a clean, blank slate
any more than we can and have been using the whorls to create more and more
elaborate heiroglyphs. At least one of those depicts the relationship between
earth and heaven and God. The energy is called Forfe and is created unknowingly
by humans, just as bees produce honey. It is the energy food of the Gods....and
spirits.
--- TBBS v2.1/NM
* Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 349-9397 Dallas, Tx (124/4214)

Sub: N~UFO
Read: (1-100), Message#25, Replies=0, [C/R]=Next Msg, ? :

Subj: Re: Clear Intent (26/100)
From: William Ivey
To : Bill English
Date: 03/09/91 23:56:00

>Unfortunately you won't find that for the most part in the supermarket
>rags.

A science fiction writer once told me that he was contacted once by the
most famous of "supermarket rags" soliciting outlandish scenarios from
him. They said if he'd write it, they'd find someone who'd swear to
god it had actually happened to them. :-) -Wm
--- FiFo V2.1l
* Origin: Twilight Zone BBS 407-831-1613 (1:363/112)

Sub: N~UFO
Read: (1-100), Message#26, Replies=0, [C/R]=Next Msg, ? :

Subj: Oddities (27/100)
From: William Ivey
To : John Powell
Date: 03/09/91 23:56:00

>I bet the T-shirts at the vendor kiosks are great though...

"I Rolled Down/Up Spook Hill!" ? :-)

Incidently, the "explanation" that my mother got years and years ago was
that a pirate was buried there and he didn't like people driving on his
body so he'd push you off. :-) (Pirates are Florida's stock in trade,
of course.) -Wm
--- FiFo V2.1l
* Origin: Twilight Zone BBS 407-831-1613 (1:363/112)

Sub: N~UFO
Read: (1-100), Message#27, Replies=0, [C/R]=Next Msg, ? :

Subj: Cow Blood (28/100)
From: William Ivey
To : Curtiss Hahn
Date: 03/09/91 23:57:00

>If the search for subsitute blood was going on for some time,

It has been. In fact there ARE several blood substitutes on the
market (chloroflourocarbons, for example) but they all have shortcomings
of one kind or another (there was an article in either Science News or
Scientific American on the subject a year or two back). Obviously, a
substitute derived from real mammalian blood is a logical direction
for research to take.-Wm
--- FiFo V2.1l
* Origin: Twilight Zone BBS 407-831-1613 (1:363/112)

Sub: N~UFO
Read: (1-100), Message#28, Replies=0, [C/R]=Next Msg, ? :

Subj: SIGHTINGS (29/100)
From: William Ivey
To : Chris Poulsen
Date: 03/09/91 23:58:00

>are there any physicists out there who have any theory what force
>would cause a car to 'play dead' without any permanent damage?

Well, these aren't forces, but they can shut down a car yet leave it
apparently unharmed and startable after a few minutes.

Vapor lock. As the engine cools, the fuel vapor will condense and allow
the car to start. In this case, the starter will still work.

Battery damage. There are several places in the batter/electrical
system where a temporary loose connection can occur. Like vapor lock,
this can be temperature related and self correcting.

Voltage regulator. An electromechanical voltage regulator can have a
sticky contact plate. Repeated attempts at starting might jog it loose.

Starter solenoid and relay. This would allow headlights, etc. to work,
but would keep the car from starting.

Fuel pump. Can cause surging and eventual stopping. After several
minutes the car can restart and act as if nothing is wrong (for
awhile). This one actually happened to me on I-10 in west Texas one
night - the pump finally failed over 1000 miles later.

More mundane than UFOs, but you've got to rule these and a few others
out first.-Wm
--- FiFo V2.1l
* Origin: Twilight Zone BBS 407-831-1613 (1:363/112)

Sub: N~UFO
Read: (1-100), Message#29, Replies=2, [C/R]=Next Msg, ? :

Subj: Re: Oddities (30/100)
From: William Ivey
To : Dan Brown
Date: 03/10/91 12:00:00

>The room just seem to be lit up all over. I couldn't see any shadows
>like you'd see if someone cam in and turned the light on. It was a
>uniform light.

The more you describe this, the more familiar it sounds. Beaucoup de
deja vu! The light was even as though the room were lit by lots of
flourescent tubes, right? (The brain as image processor, eh? :-)

One of the strangest versions of this that I had was lying in bed
watching the ceiling of my room open up to reveal a huge, cavernous
space filled with H.R. Geiger-style machines. The blend of reality
and dream was flawless - I could see the hinges on the ceiling
sections.

The prettiest version was "waking" up to see a fairy-like creature
sitting on the edge of my reading lamp - lovely butterfly-style
wings. As I came more awake, she faded out smoothely. Cute! :-)

There were several others over a period of a couple of years, but
not recently. BTW, I tend to dream vividly with solid plots and
characterizations, I don't know if that has any bearing on it -
do you have vivid dreams?-Wm
--- FiFo V2.1l
* Origin: Twilight Zone BBS 407-831-1613 (1:363/112)

Sub: N~UFO
Read: (1-100), Message#30, Replies=0, [C/R]=Next Msg, ? :

Subj: Group Insanity Or Contagious Insanity (31/100)
From: John Hicks
To : Peggy Noonan
Date: 03/09/91 21:38:02

REPLY: 1:104/602 4d75b7dc
> BTW, did you see the CIS message asking for sources for
> GIF pix of UFOs and info on area 51 or S-4 (I don't know what
> S-4 is)? It was an inquiry from #76050,2657.
I missed it. Lots of info can be gained from recent issues of UFO Magazine,
in which there was an article on Bob Lazar.
S-4 is supposedly one of the supersecret areas of Nellis AFB test range in
which the Air Force is flying saucers.

jbh

--- FD 1.99c
* Origin: UFINET//PARANET//MUFONET (407)649-4136 (1:363/29)

Sub: N~UFO
Read: (1-100), Message#31, Replies=0, [C/R]=Next Msg, ? :

Subj: Hoagland's Mars (32/100)
From: John Hicks
To : Ron Bonds
Date: 03/09/91 21:52:03

REPLY: 1:133/405 3295ee52
> Has anyone seen the Video "Hoagland's Mars" that has the
> computerized graphic fly over of Cydonia? Is it worth $29.95??

Where can I get it?

jbh

--- FD 1.99c
* Origin: UFINET//PARANET//MUFONET (407)649-4136 (1:363/29)

Sub: N~UFO
Read: (1-100), Message#32, Replies=0, [C/R]=Next Msg, ? :

Subj: Crotans ? (33/100)
From: John Hicks
To : Curtiss Hahn
Date: 03/09/91 21:53:04

REPLY: 1:106/1999@fidonet 1665a18e
> I don't remember the exact word found on the pole but it was
> almost the same as the name of a local indian tribe that just
> happened to be hostile.

Croatan.

--- FD 1.99c
* Origin: UFINET//PARANET//MUFONET (407)649-4136 (1:363/29)

Sub: N~UFO
Read: (1-100), Message#33, Replies=0, [C/R]=Next Msg, ? :

Subj: Old stuff! (34/100)
From: John Hicks
To : Jim Sanders
Date: 03/09/91 22:04:05

> The Capt. Mantell P-51 sighting and chase of UFO out of Fort
> Knox, Ky.

I've also read that the wreckage was riddles with lots of small holes. No
idea if that's true.

> Another was radar sigthing out of Selfridge AFB, MI.. They
> scrambled an F-89 to intercept... The F-89 was able to close and
> report "Had Joy" (radar contact) and the aircraft and crew were
> never seen again.. wreckage or any part...

Don't know about that one. Here's a similar incident.
Sometime in late 1989 (I think), literally thousands of people saw a huge
triangular ufo cross the island of Puerto Rico. At some point, a large number
of people saw two F-14s orbiting the object.
The F-14s, one by one, flew inside and never came back out.
Jorge Martin will be speaking about that incident at the MUFON Symposium in
Chicago. I've never seen the story published.

jbh

--- FD 1.99c
* Origin: UFINET//PARANET//MUFONET (407)649-4136 (1:363/29)

Sub: N~UFO
Read: (1-100), Message#34, Replies=0, [C/R]=Next Msg, ? :

Subj: Off-line readers (35/100)
From: John Hicks
To : Jym Fox
Date: 03/09/91 22:06:06

REPLY: 1:370/530 4d72a72c
> Peggy,see if you can get this sysop to use XRS or Silver Express
> and help you set it up. You can then reply to messages at your
> leasure off-line.

I've suggested that. I think Bryon's running it, if Peggy can get the echos
she wants there.
Unfortunately, my mail processor won't cooperate with it.

jbh

--- FD 1.99c
* Origin: UFINET//PARANET//MUFONET (407)649-4136 (1:363/29)

Sub: N~UFO
Read: (1-100), Message#35, Replies=0, [C/R]=Next Msg, ? :

Subj: Gov. (36/100)
From: John Hicks
To : Bill English
Date: 03/09/91 22:09:07

> However! It isn't just the flying wing configuaration
> that is part of the Stealth technology as I understand it, but
> rather it's construction..

You got it. A wing is more stealthy than conventional design, but the real
key to stealth is materials and coatings.

jbh

--- FD 1.99c
* Origin: UFINET//PARANET//MUFONET (407)649-4136 (1:363/29)

Sub: N~UFO
Read: (1-100), Message#36, Replies=0, [C/R]=Next Msg, ? :

Subj: Re: Congress (37/100)
From: John Hicks
To : Bill English
Date: 03/09/91 22:13:08

> No this is not true. Carter made the comment at one time that he
> has seen a UFO and that'a all..

I vaguely recall Carter saying that he'd release info, but he didn't make
any big deal about it. I think it came back to haunt him as soon as he said
it.
The MUFON investigation conclusion was that Carter and the others had been
watching Venus.

jbh

--- FD 1.99c
* Origin: UFINET//PARANET//MUFONET (407)649-4136 (1:363/29)

Sub: N~UFO
Read: (1-100), Message#37, Replies=0, [C/R]=Next Msg, ? :

Subj: Crop circles (38/100)
From: John Hicks
To : John Powell
Date: 03/09/91 22:16:09

REPLY: 1:19/19.19 27d441d9
Bruce Maccabee has suggested that we call the formations "agriglyphs," in
the same way that rock carvings are petroglyphs. Sounds good to me.

jbh

--- FD 1.99c
* Origin: UFINET//PARANET//MUFONET (407)649-4136 (1:363/29)

Sub: N~UFO
Read: (1-100), Message#38, Replies=0, [C/R]=Next Msg, ? :

Subj: New to this... (39/100)
From: John Hicks
To : John Moore
Date: 03/09/91 22:23:10

>
> Hello, I was scanning through the echos and found this
> one .. but at the risk of sounding naive.. I dont want to jump
> in to a converation and then reallizing that I was in over my
> head..

A few books. The UFO Casebook, by Kevin Randle, will give you a good overview
.
Clear Intent, by Fawcett and Greenwood, on purported government coverups. Intrud
ers,
by Budd Hopkins, on the abduction phenomenon. Confrontations, by Jacques Vallee,
for the...opinion from left field, but makes about as much sense than anything
else.
The Gulf Breeze Sightings, by Ed and Frances Walters, is the current bone
of contention for argumentive types. Those will get you started.
Periodicals I'd suggest are the MUFON Journal and UFO Magazine. Don't waste
your money on UFO Universe.

No comments from the peanut gallery now..... ;-)

jbh

--- FD 1.99c
* Origin: UFINET//PARANET//MUFONET (407)649-4136 (1:363/29)

Sub: N~UFO
Read: (1-100), Message#39, Replies=0, [C/R]=Next Msg, ? :

Subj: New to this... (40/100)
From: John Hicks
To : John Moore
Date: 03/09/91 22:25:11

Also almost essential to keeping current is the UFO Newsclipping Service.
It's worth every cent. Ads for the service are in the mags.

jbh

--- FD 1.99c
* Origin: UFINET//PARANET//MUFONET (407)649-4136 (1:363/29)

Sub: N~UFO
Read: (1-100), Message#40, Replies=0, [C/R]=Next Msg, ? :

Subj: Boston- March 6 1991- 2:55 am (41/100)
From: John Hicks
To : Chris Kane
Date: 03/09/91 22:27:12

> I dont have THE scoop on this, but here's the lowdown..

This sounds like it's connected to the "meteor" sightings. I saw a quoted
AP report in which airline pilots reported to the FAA that the "meteor" was
hovering over NYC, and LIUFON has a report of a similar incident on Long Island.

jbh

--- FD 1.99c
* Origin: UFINET//PARANET//MUFONET (407)649-4136 (1:363/29)

Sub: N~UFO
Read: (1-100), Message#41, Replies=0, [C/R]=Next Msg, ? :

Subj: cows blood for human use (42/100)
From: John Hicks
To : John Powell
Date: 03/09/91 22:31:13

REPLY: 1:19/19.19 27d58731
> Somehow I don't think the Mary Lou's, Peggy Sue's and Billy
> Bob's of the world are anywhere near prepared...

I think you're absolutely right. I've known intelligent adults who haven't
read a book or newspaper, or even listened to TV news in *years*.
It's very difficult to me to understand how they can be so totally unintereste
d
in anything but their own little world.

jbh

--- FD 1.99c
* Origin: UFINET//PARANET//MUFONET (407)649-4136 (1:363/29)

Sub: N~UFO
Read: (1-100), Message#42, Replies=0, [C/R]=Next Msg, ? :

Subj: RE: PHENOMENA (PART I) (43/100)
From: Scott Ecker
To : William Ivey
Date: 03/09/91 22:19:38

SE>Contagious insanity is "not uncommon"?!?

> Nope. There are countless variations on the theme...

Disregarding the term "insanity", I understand more clearly your suggestion.

> Anxiety, fear and stress can easily be generated internally for many
> reasons...

True, but without individual case study, has no generalized bearing.

> - the need to create something special in one's life is not outside
> the realm of possibility. Nor is the creation of a totally imaginary
> past event to justify a current but irrational stress response
> unknown.

But herein lies one very tremendous problem: The imagery. Why are there no
Ewoks, Storm-troopers, E.T.s, Klingons, Yodas, and the other thousands of
prevelent alien archetypes? Why no cute, friendly beings as depicted in
_Close Encounters_? Where are the lightsabers, X-Wing fighers, Enterprises,
laser guns, and so many of the other heavily reinforced images? If the
unconcious mind were to concoct some fantastic episode of alien abduction to
bring feelings of specialness or to "justify an irrational stress response",
surely the doctrines of _Star Trek_ would hold more ground than the
relatively unknown images of floating through windows, sterile white rooms,
strange tables, exacting medical proceedures, bizarre (and often repeated)
instruments, little gray men, and so on. The arguement "but there have been
so many books, and television programs about abductions" could be offered,
but judging from my own conversations with friends and aquaintances, I doubt
the average person knows much, if anything, about the experience, and
certainly not the finer aspects.

SE>However, in the context of abduction experiences, there is no proven,
SE>evidence-supported mundane theory of solution,

> On the contrary, there are usually alternate explanations. For
> example, in the case of Betty Hill, her psychologist maintained
> that her experience was based on elaborated fantasies that were
> probably the result of sublimated stress in her life.

There was surely a great ammount of stress for the Hills, being part of an
interracial marriage back in that period of time. But to rely solely upon
internally-generated theory is to ignore the physical elements involved in
the Hill abduction claim (spots on the car, stopped watches, etc.).

Dr. Simon's opinion likely reflected a conservative view, for I doubt that a
psychiatrist who valued his reputation and career would advocate the
abduction of humans by extraterrestial entities based upon the meager amount
of information available at that time. He would have been laughed right out
into the street by his peers. And as you must know, psychology is home to
numerous differing theories and stances, so the opinion of one individual
cannot totally refute (or substantiate for that matter) the validity of the
Hill's claims.

(continued next message...)

--- TMail v1.17
* Origin: West Coast Pyro Board (209 661-5355) (1:205/45)

Sub: N~UFO
Read: (1-100), Message#43, Replies=0, [C/R]=Next Msg, ? :

Subj: RE: PHENOMENA (PART II) (44/100)
From: Scott Ecker
To : William Ivey
Date: 03/09/91 22:20:38

> The child who is beaten, contrary to what you seem to think, often
> seeks to administer violence as an adult - they do not fear violence,
> per se. This is such a well known connection I'm surprised you don't
> seem to be aware of it.

My attempt to illustrate an external stimulus-fear response was rather poor,
I concede, however, you should understand the idea I suggest. A clearer
example might be this: On several occasions in my youth, about age five or
six, I witnessed (or at least *thought* I witnessed) a small, semicircular,
red colored object eminating from the window sill in my bedroom at night, and
I can guarantee you that the resulting fear had nothing whatsoever to do with
thrill-seeking, nor any internal stresses, nor needs of any kind.

SE>And the UFO abductee, who has been exposed to some form of trauma (be
SE>it physical or phychological),

> No doubt tre is a trauma in many cases, but it need not be assumed to
> be an abduction by aliens even when that is what is claimed by the
> person involved.

Should we assume then, given an apparently normal, well adjusted person
claiming such an experience, that there is nothing to worry about; nothing
which warrants investigation or further scrutiny beyond simply saying
"imaginary experience" and moving right along?

SE>Your statement about fear is much to general, and does not account for
SE>many physiological effects (scars, rashes, bloody noses, etc.)

> Not directly, but as part of a total psychological picture, it does.
> Rashes, bloody noses, etc. can be stress-induced...

See the previous arguement concerning the availability of abduction imagery.

> ...and scars, in the absence of other convincing evidence, are
> ambiguous. (I have a strange scar on my hand at the moment. I don't
> know how it got there - could have been aliens, I suppose, but since
> I first noticed it some time after repairing a fence, the more

The scars to which I refer are anything but ambiguous, and are, quite to the
contrary, of very precise design. One of the more common--a round scoop-like
mark appearing on the thigh or calf--seems, to me, more than coincidental
when found so often upon abduction claimants. So far as "in the abscence of
other convincing evidence," I disagree wholeheartedly, and would refer you to
_Missing Time_, _Intruders_, _The Octover Scenario_, _Confrontations_, etc.
for further assistance.

Best Regards,

Scott

--- TMail v1.17
* Origin: West Coast Pyro Board (209 661-5355) (1:205/45)

Sub: N~UFO
Read: (1-100), Message#44, Replies=0, [C/R]=Next Msg, ? :

Subj: Back To Future (45/100)
From: Daniel Osborn
To : Tessa Hebert
Date: 03/10/91 08:37:00

> Okay, I'll get back to you too as soon as I find the magazine
> article about the hoverboard being a toy created by Mattel but not
> marketed because of the danger.

As a joke the producer of the film said, in a promotional "behind the scenes
interview" that the board was real and that it had to be taken off the market
because it was too dangerous. I saw the promo and said to my wife at the time
that his demeanor was such that people were going to take him seriously. IT
WAS ONLY A JOKE!!! He said several other things that made it obvious that he
was joking. Don't be so gullible, it is WORSE than being insane! :-)

--- FD 2.00
* Origin: The Emerald City-Westminster, CO (1:104/214)

Sub: N~UFO
Read: (1-100), Message#45, Replies=0, [C/R]=Next Msg, ? :

Subj: Re: Stealth (46/100)
From: Bill English
To : William Ivey
Date: 03/09/91 02:01:00

In a message to Bill English <03-06-91 23:33> William Ivey wrote:

WI>You just weren't paying attention. There's nothing
WI>radically new in the
WI>stealth planes, it's all based on materials and techniques
WI>that have
WI>long, and well publicized histories. The only really "new"
WI>thing is
WI>bringing them all together into a single airframe (most of
WI>the
WI>technology appears discretely in other fighters, both US
WI>and foreign).
WI>(In fact, you can buy some of it at your local hobby
ATZ

OK
ATH

OK
Read: (1-100), Message#55, Replies=0, [C/R]=Next Msg, ? :46

Subj: Re: Stealth (46/100)
From: Bill English
To : William Ivey
Date: 03/09/91 02:01:00

In a message to Bill English <03-06-91 23:33> William Ivey wrote:

WI>You just weren't paying attention. There's nothing
WI>radically new in the
WI>stealth planes, it's all based on materials and techniques
WI>that have
WI>long, and well publicized histories. The only really "new"
WI>thing is
WI>bringing them all together into a single airframe (most of
WI>the
WI>technology appears discretely in other fighters, both US
WI>and foreign).
WI>(In fact, you can buy some of it at your local hobby
WI>shop!)-Wm

If your refering to the honeycomb construction then your correct, however as
far as I know there still wasn't any real research with regard to bringing it
all together. Of course you may be right and I might not have been paying attent
ion.
But then I thought perhaps I was...unless of course I was in the bathroom during
that particular class...<grin>

Kind regards,
Bill English

--- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval)
* Origin: UFINET News BBS (505)682-3450 9010/14 (1:308/100)

Sub: N~UFO
Read: (1-100), Message#46, Replies=0, [C/R]=Next Msg, ? :

Subj: Re: Interesting! (47/100)
From: Bill English
To : Dale Anderson
Date: 03/09/91 02:02:00

In a message to Bill English <03-06-91 08:32> Dale Anderson wrote:

DA> BE> General Markov's statements to the press. Additionally
DA>I also have
DA>
DA> BE> world <grin>. I might add that General Markov is the
DA>Russian Air
DA> BE> Force Aor Defence Minister.
DA>
DA>Bill,
DA> Are these computer files and are they available for
DA>download? Thanks much.

Not yet, I am still trying to scrap the money together for a hand scanner, but
they can be in short order...

Bill..

--- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval)
* Origin: UFINET News BBS (505)682-3450 9010/14 (1:308/100)

Sub: N~UFO
Read: (1-100), Message#47, Replies=0, [C/R]=Next Msg, ? :

Subj: Re: Far Journeys (48/100)
From: Bill English
To : Dale Anderson
Date: 03/09/91 02:04:00

In a message to Bill English <03-06-91 23:00> Dale Anderson wrote:

DA>Whitley Strieber mentions it in an interview with the
DA>author of
DA>'Report On Communion'. It is based on what he calls the
DA>'neoteny' concept.

Interesting. Whitley's material paralells alot of other material as well. MOst
notiable among these is tyhe Christa Tilton Case.

Bill..

--- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval)
* Origin: UFINET News BBS (505)682-3450 9010/14 (1:308/100)

Sub: N~UFO
Read: (1-100), Message#48, Replies=0, [C/R]=Next Msg, ? :

Subj: Re: phili. exper (49/100)
From: Bill English
To : Gus Giudici
Date: 03/09/91 02:19:00

In a message to Bill English <03-07-91 20:28> Gus Giudici wrote:

GG> Hi Bill,
GG> Well,ya know what Sgt.Friday sez,I'm for that.
GG>However.it's interestting that you still give Moore his due
GG>for those two books,do you belive that stuff at the end of
GG>Philla. Experi. about Franklin Reno? It seems to me if we
GG>accept that as truth,then Moore solved the mystery and
GG>anything else is just goverment suppresion of the facts.

I'll give credit where it is due. Especially if someone did a good job. As for
Franklin Reno, well...to be honest with you I haven't given it much thought
since my priorities have been in other areas.

GG> By the way,do you know if there is a hard copy
GG>of Moore's presentation in Las Veagas,I understand that's
GG>when and were he came out with the disinformation info.
GG>
GG>(sorry if this is all old news Bill,but I've never had the
GG> oppertunity to ask these questions.)

Yes there is a hard copy of Bill's speech at the 89 MUFON conference and I happe
n
to have one here. Unfortunately it is copyrighted material and I cannot place
it on the system for download. I would suggest that you contact Bill at his
office in LA and order one. I'll have to dig into my files and get the address
for you, but I will post it.

GG> I had read that APRO had a taped interview with Allende,
GG>do you know if it's available?

I don't know if there is still a copy of the tape available. All of the APRO
files were placed in storage when Coral Lorenzen passed away and as I understand
it they suffered a great deal of damage. The International Center for UFO Studie
s
in Scottdale, Az has managed to get those files and have been in the process
of restoring what they can for public access. I'll try and find their address
and number for you and post that also.

GG> Hynek could do no wrong,Hynek is GOD!
GG> (or with God as the case may be.)
GG> (just a personel observation,nuff said)

None of us are gods or should be even compaired as such. Although I disagreed
with Hynek, I did and still do respect him and what he did in later life.

--- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval)
* Origin: UFINET News BBS (505)682-3450 9010/14 (1:308/100)

Sub: N~UFO
Read: (1-100), Message#49, Replies=0, [C/R]=Next Msg, ? :

Subj: Re: phili. exper (50/100)
From: Bill English
To : Gus Giudici
Date: 03/09/91 02:22:00

continued from last message:

I didn't mean to end the last message so abruptly, but I hit the wrong keys...it
's
late

GG> Thanks for the info on MUFON and the sources for current
GG>literature,and I'll be sending out that letter to UFINET
GG>shortly.Once agin,I really do apreciate your replies,before
GG>I learned how to crank up this old XT,I didn't know there
GG>were so many folks out there to converse with on this
GG>subject.
GG>

It's my pleasure to be able to help any and all who want to know. For those
just learning the in's and out's, none of this is old information. And yes there
are a lot of us out here...

Take care,
Bill English

--- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval)
* Origin: UFINET News BBS (505)682-3450 9010/14 (1:308/100)

Sub: N~UFO
Read: (1-100), Message#50, Replies=0, [C/R]=Next Msg, ? :

Subj: Re: Wierd Stuff... (51/100)
From: Bill English
To : Jym Fox
Date: 03/09/91 02:25:00

In a message to Dan Brown <03-05-91 21:09> Jym Fox wrote:

JF>DB>Sometimes in
JF>DB>> this business you get caught with your pants down
JF>around your ankles and
JF>DB>> you seem to have caught me..<grin>
JF>DB>
JF>DB> What a picture that conjures up! Hehe...
JF>DB>
JF>
JF>I don't know Dan....it's sorta like I always picture Bill
JF><grin>.
JF>
JF> Jym

Jym, This may be the wrong echo for this comment...But God will get you for
that !

Bill..

--- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval)
* Origin: UFINET News BBS (505)682-3450 9010/14 (1:308/100)

Sub: N~UFO
Read: (1-100), Message#51, Replies=0, [C/R]=Next Msg, ? :

Subj: Re: Far Journeys (52/100)
From: Bill English
To : Jym Fox
Date: 03/09/91 02:26:00

In a message to Wood Mage <03-06-91 14:35> Jym Fox wrote:

JF>James can show you which echos are great for the Astral
JF>Planes. There are some NEW echos comming over to us on
JF>FidoNet fronm the PODS network which deal with just this
JF>subject.....
JF> Jym
JF>ps....This echo is NEVER safe <grin>.

Ain't that the truth...

Bill..

--- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval)
* Origin: UFINET News BBS (505)682-3450 9010/14 (1:308/100)

Sub: N~UFO
Read: (1-100), Message#52, Replies=0, [C/R]=Next Msg, ? :

Subj: Re: Bagdhad UFO's (53/100)
From: Bill English
To : Steve Arringdale
Date: 03/09/91 02:29:00

In a message to John Hrusovszky <03-06-91 14:20> Steve Arringdale wrote:

SA>Well, although the message wasn't directed this way, I'm
SA>going to make a short reply... Near as I can tell, there
SA>were at least two confirmed sightings over bagdhad in the
SA>first day or two of the air war. Peter Arnett and the two
SA>other CNN reporters saw two objects. One of which they
SA>identified as some form of helicopter, yet it made
SA>absolutely no noise. Now, it seems funny to me that they
SA>could ID the air-craft, at night, during all the combat,
SA>yet still hear no noise coming from it. THe second one flew
SA>directly over the Al Rashid hotel and "Lit up the entire
SA>sky" to quote one of the reporters. This air-craft also
SA>made no noise at all.. I believe those were the UFO's that
SA>were reffered to.. any other ones, I don't know about, but
SA>these two sightings were reported live before the Iraqi
SA>military began censoring the reports.... Isn;t it
SA>interesting what you hear when reporters are allowed to
SA>give the public the 'play by play' of whats going on?
SA>

Steve, if you can get the UFINET Echo read the article from the "Weekly World
Spews" that I placed in there. It's entertaining to say the least..

Bill English

--- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval)
* Origin: UFINET News BBS (505)682-3450 9010/14 (1:308/100)

Sub: N~UFO
Read: (1-100), Message#53, Replies=0, [C/R]=Next Msg, ? :

Subj: Re: KECKSBURG UFO (54/100)
From: Bill English
To : Kirk Shorting
Date: 03/10/91 00:39:00

In a message to Bill English <03-08-91 10:25> Kirk Shorting wrote:

KS> Thanks Bill, but I don;t have downloading capability at
KS>the moment. My education will have to wait.
KS> Later,....
KS>

No p[roblem Kirk. When your able just call the UFINET system and let me know
your there...

Bill..

--- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval)
* Origin: UFINET News BBS (505)682-3450 9010/14 (1:308/100)

Sub: N~UFO
Read: (1-100), Message#54, Replies=0, [C/R]=Next Msg, ? :

Subj: Re: Wierd Stuff... (55/100)
From: Bill English
To : Dan Brown
Date: 03/10/91 00:41:00

In a message to Bill English <03-09-91 07:05> Dan Brown wrote:

DB> Maybe I should type up something and send it your way.
DB>I'm feeling more at ease about discussing my experiences
DB>publicly, but privately would be much nicer.

Dan, that would be most satisfactory. Anything that you write or say will of
course be kept in the strictest confidence.

Bill..

--- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval)
* Origin: UFINET News BBS (505)682-3450 9010/14 (1:308/100)

Sub: N~UFO
Read: (1-100), Message#55, Replies=0, [C/R]=Next Msg, ? :

Subj: Re: That damn Cooper again. (56/100)
From: Bill English
To : Harrison Hopper
Date: 03/10/91 00:43:00

In a message to Bill English <03-05-91 21:52> Harrison Hopper wrote:

HH> Read what Cannon has to say about Cooper in letters to
HH>the editor in the latest MUFON Journal. You'll like it.
HH>
HH>
HH> :::hop
HH>

I am supposed to be a member of MUFON but I have yet gotten my membership card
or a copy of the journal. Perhaps you can up load the story to me or send it
snailmail..

PLEASE.....HUH!...

Bill..

--- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval)
* Origin: UFINET News BBS (505)682-3450 9010/14 (1:308/100)

Sub: N~UFO
Read: (1-100), Message#56, Replies=0, [C/R]=Next Msg, ? :

Subj: Re: Lost colony (57/100)
From: Bill English
To : Jim Sanders @ 995/113
Date: 03/10/91 00:46:00

In a message to Bill English <03-08-91 14:23> Jim Sanders @ 995/113 wrote:

JS>Bill,
JS>
JS>I have seen a thread which refers to the "Lost Colony of
JS>Roanoke" or such..
JS>
JS>Have an item which may interest you...
JS>
JS>I the vacinity of Sneedville, Tenn. are remmants of a group
JS>of people called Malungeons (sp?). They were supposedly
JS>settled in this area BEFORE Boone or any of the others
JS>crossed to the west...
JS>
JS>Some now say they are descendents of the lost colony and
JS>other say shipwrecked Portugese sailors... They are not
JS>Amerindians
JS>
JS>Have you anything on this mystery???

Jim, unfortunately the only thing that I know about it is what I have read in
history class. And at that I didn't do very well because I refered to it as
the Smith Town Colony...Sheesh!

Bill..

--- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval)
* Origin: UFINET News BBS (505)682-3450 9010/14 (1:308/100)

Sub: N~UFO
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Subj: Re: Ufinet news bbs (58/100)
From: Bill English
To : Michael Geggus
Date: 03/10/91 00:47:00

In a message to Bill English <03-09-91 07:21> Michael Geggus wrote:

MG>Is UFInet News BBS available throught the CONNECT USA
MG>network? Just wondering.......I did find one GIF which I
MG>uploaded here on City Lights BBS of the Face on
MG>Mars.....Mike Geggus
MG>

Hmmmm...good question. I don't really know if it is or not. If anyone would
care to give me the information about how this might be done, I would appreciate
it.

Bill..

--- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval)
* Origin: UFINET News BBS (505)682-3450 9010/14 (1:308/100)

Sub: N~UFO
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Subj: Re: KECKSBURG UFO (59/100)
From: Bill English
To : Lynn Curtis
Date: 03/10/91 00:55:00

In a message to Bill English <03-08-91 13:04> Lynn Curtis wrote:

LC>Hello Bill!
LC>
LC> I saw you logged onto my board and I've upgraded your
LC>access anytime you wish to call feel free.
LC>
LC> It has been a long time since I've delved into my
LC>fascination and need-to-know of UFOs. It's been about 3
LC>1/2 years maybe 4.
LC>
LC> Do you have a complete files listing for all of your
LC>UFO-related files? I've got some catching up to do and
LC>would appreciate a look-see at what all you have.
LC>
LC>Thanks,
LC> Lynn

Lynn, we have a problem here. I HAVE NOT called your BBS. If someone has logged
onto your system using my name I would suggest that you dump them immediately,
or at least question them as to their identity. It may be that they have the
same first and last name as I do. If they state that they are me then they are
lying. Once we get this little matter starightened out I will be most happy
to call your system. You of course are always welcome here at UFINET News BBS.

Yes I do have a complete files listing, freq the file "ALLFILES.BBS"

Kind regards,
Bill English
UFINET

--- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval)
* Origin: UFINET News BBS (505)682-3450 9010/14 (1:308/100)

Sub: N~UFO
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Subj: Re: Back to Future (60/100)
From: Larry Mears
To : Chakko Ohye
Date: 03/08/91 13:51:55

In a message of <05 Mar 91 00:06:00>, Chakko Ohye writes :

> I don't know anything about the Philadelphia Experiment Book. I
> saw the movie (If it's the same topic?). But a hover board, I think,
> would be possible with electricity. When current is passed through
> wires a magnetic field gets created (induced), like an electro-magnet.
> So, just get two magnets (like doughnut shaped ones) and put them
> on top of each other so that they repel each other and one will hover
> over the other magnet. I'm sure the same thing could be re-created
> using electro-magnet type devices which were designed so that the
> magnetic fields from each one would align up in the right way.

If you did that you would have to run around with one set of
magnets on a seperate board for the other board to oppose. The
thing Brown was doing is different. Just read the book you'll
enjoy it. ...LGM

--- KramMail v3.10
* Origin: Gateway - Hunstville, Al. - (205) 880-7723 *HST* (1:373/2.0)

Sub: N~UFO
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Subj: COVER UP (61/100)
From: John Hicks
To : CHRIS POULSEN
Date: 03/10/91 12:15:05

> It's obviously some trickster with a HeNe LASER. I have one and
> could
> easily pull the same prank if I wanted to. LASERS are easily
> obtainable, and a fairly powerful one can be had for under $300.

OK, do it in a clear sky too. Without any beam being visible.

jbh

--- FD 1.99c
* Origin: UFINET//PARANET//MUFONET (407)649-4136 (1:363/29)

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Subj: Re: SORRY (62/100)
From: John Hicks
To : Peggy Noonan
Date: 03/10/91 12:18:06

> Thanks for the tip on how to use the quote-from-message F3 tool.
> I'll give that a try. No, I hadn't used the QuickEd full-

What you saw was QuickEd, by Dror Tirosh. It's the fullscreen editor I was
referring to. F3 turns on and off the quote window, enter quotes a line, and
Ctrl-Z saves the message.
The other is the common line editor, in which you work line by line.
You must be able to use ANSI.SYS and have graphics turned on at the bbs end
in order to use QuickEd. If you could use it once, you have it all set up at
your end.

jbh

--- FD 1.99c
* Origin: UFINET//PARANET//MUFONET (407)649-4136 (1:363/29)

Sub: N~UFO
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Subj: Interesting! (63/100)
From: Dan Thompson
To : Bill English
Date: 03/10/91 01:32:00

Hi Bill,
I noticed in a message to you from Dale Anderson, that he was
quoting a message that you had apparently sent to me, re: concerning
the radio station WWCR post that I put on here several days ago,
subject: Interesting.
I didn't receive a message from you so I'll have to assume that
it was "lost in the mail". Could you kindly re-post.
Thanks a lot,
Dan

--- W2Q v1.47 [Eval]
* Origin: The NightOwl BBS (614)655-2455 (1:2220/50)

Sub: N~UFO
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Subj: Philly Experiment (64/100)
From: Billy Pietschman
To : Gus Giudici
Date: 03/09/91 21:42:00

Hi! Ok--I have copies of my dads Seamans papers here in fromt of me...
I cant find any reference to Lipshiz(sp?) but I remember him mentioning
that--now I think that they were a supplier of food/supplies that they
dealt with--it been a lot of years.I have a paprer here from the US
Coast Guard--Dated Jul 30 1945 and he did graduate at Sheepshead Bay,
NY. And another letter from the LUCKENBACH STEAMSHIP COMPANY,
LUCKENBACH LINES, Foot of 35th Street, Brooklyn 32, NY, from the SS
HENRY D. THOREAU. Here is the text: To Whom It may Concern: William
Pietschman has served aboard this vessel from the 29th of January.
While this vessel was in route from Genoa to the United States, Mr.
Pietschman suffered a spinal attack, which was a recurrence of a
previous injury. From March 25th to March 31st he was unable to leave
his bed due to complete numbness in his lower limbs.
Yours truly,
Roger Brach, Purser
SS Henry D. Thoreau
He was discharged 11 April 1946 at Charleston, South Carolina, abter
being released from active duty on 8 Sept 1945 from USMSGS, New York.
He never had any "lower limb" problems that I ever saw, and I feel
somewhat qualified to comment on this, you see, he was a Doctor, and I
am a Registered Nurse. I any case, his injury(?) seems strange to me.
... Thanks so much for your reply, and if anyone out there can find
and Merchant Marine info, please send it to this echo. There are fewer
and fewer of thse veterans left, and someone might talk about the
Philadelphia Experiment before their story dies with them...I wonder if
the experiments continued at all...don't you?

--- W2Q v1.47 [Eval]
* Origin: The NightOwl BBS (614)655-2455 (1:2220/50)

Sub: N~UFO
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Subj: Close Encounter of the 2nd kind (65/100)
From: Tessa Hebert
To : Chuck O'neill
Date: 03/10/91 22:28:00

Hi, Chuck. I thought your Close Encounter was really interesting, & I appreciat
e
how hard it is to write a public message about something like that. I have
a few questions & would like to talk about it some more with you.

How old was your friend's little brother when this happened?

> playing with a flashlight, shining it into the air. You see,
> the thing was, there was a police helicopter that use to fly
> around with a big spotlight checking out people's property.
> We got his little brother into the habbit of shining it at
> the helicopter, it would really piss them off.
>

Is it possible that he attracted the UFO by shining the flashlight in the sky?

You know, I've read about people who have reported UFO's that "appeared to be
helicopters". I wonder if you & your friends have had a "cover-up memory" of
watching a police helicopter, when you have actually been watching a UFO.

The other thing that curious about your story, that leads me to believe that
there is a missing time gap & that possibly you, your friend & his parents were
not able to act during that time gap is "why didn't the child's parents hear
his screams sooner & come out of the house before the UFO left?"

I suggest that it's possible that you & friend believe you could not open the
door, when what may have happened is that you were frozen & unable to move durin
g
that time, and maybe the UFO abducted the child.
How much
time would you estimate elapsed from beginning to end of te else's story.

---
* Origin: The Gates Of Amber BBS(NODE1) Houston TX 713-980-3989 (1:106/9996)

Sub: N~UFO
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Subj: October 1973 (66/100)
From: Bob Sheldon
To : All
Date: 03/10/91 21:48:09

During October, 1973, I saw about 25 UFO's in the Houston, Tx area. They
were paying a lot of attention to the oil refineries in the eastern part of
the metroplex. All of this was observed from a high rise dormitory at the Unive
rsity
of Houston. Did anyone else have a similar experience that month? This was
the month that the Yom Kippur war started in the Middle East.

--- Echodor v3.07
* Origin: CONNECT AMERICA #7 - Austin, Tx - 512-836-7117 - (1:382/10.0)

Sub: N~UFO
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Subj: Re: 40S COVER UP (67/100)
From: Kirk Shorting
To : Chris Poulsen
Date: 03/09/91 11:37:02

CP> Why would a race as superior as an alien race would need to be to
CP> traverse space waste their time communicating with lowly humans?

Why would a race as superior as humans want to waste their time travelling
to distant continents in order to study the gorilla for twenty years? Or study
other human beings? or study flaura and fauna?
Curiosity seems an inherent element to intelligence, don't you think?
If humans were to find primitive life on Mars which communicated with one anothe
r,
I think all interested people would want to communicate with them regardless
of how far or difficult the attempt might be.

--- Maximus-CBCS v1.02
* Origin: Ont.Police Journal,Ajax,ON @9600 HST (416)428-3568 (1:229/101)

Sub: N~UFO
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Subj: Re: Coral Castle (68/100)
From: Kirk Shorting
To : Peggy Noonan
Date: 03/09/91 11:47:55

I read a book a couple of years ago written by a fellow by the name of Davidov
its.
Apparantly, he is an engineer who designed a method of casting fabricated stone.
He claims to be able to create any stone out of its elements. He calls this
process geopolymerization. He claims that this method is the one used by the
Egyptians to build the Pryamid at Gaza.
I found his book extremely convincing but I was informed by another gentleman
via a message that Davidovits' theory was full of wholes. This gentleman said
that he was in a position to know but he did not elaborate.
I mention this book and its author because he claims that the monuments at
Coral Castle were created via the same method that he has pioneered.
ALthough I received a dissenting opinion, I would recommend that you give the
book a read for yourself (If you can find it.). It was very well written and
did not seem like a book written by some kook. He seemed to have good answers
for all his critics and his theory does well in explaining the various problems
inherent in the building of large structures like the pryamids.
Take care.

--- Maximus-CBCS v1.02
* Origin: Ont.Police Journal,Ajax,ON @9600 HST (416)428-3568 (1:229/101)

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Subj: What do you do? (69/100)
From: Karen Lawrence
To : All
Date: 03/10/91 18:37:07

Does anyone know what you're supposed to do if you see a UFO? I mean do you
call anyone or something? Because - I know this seems really strange, I think
I saw one! I was driving home from my grandmother's house with my parents, and
I saw a red floating thingy behind us about 50-75 feet in the air & about half
a mile bhind us

--- Maximus-CBCS v1.02
* Origin: Avi-Technic BBS (1:261/662)

Sub: N~UFO
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Subj: PHILI. EXPER (70/100)
From: Mark Freel
To : Steve Arringdale
Date: 03/09/91 10:27:00

SA>missing.... If anyone else has more detailed or different info regarding
SA>either inncident please post it, as I've been trying to collect informat
SA>this for the past 4 years, and it seems there is a brick wall in my way
SA>everywhere I turn....

For what its worth ...

Some accounts of the Philadelphia Experiment mention the sighting of aliens
by crew members during the experiment, which seems to have involved
magnetic pulses.

Several years ago, there were a few reports about a helmet that pulsed
magnetic waves through the temporal lobes. This device was intended to ind
mystic states in the user. Visions, including those of aliens, were report

This may be the same device discussed in the December 1988 OMNI, in
_Transcending_Science_ by Dennis Stacy starting on page 55. I think this
device was also written up in the Brain Mind Bulletin.
* SLMR 1.05 * A riddle wrapped in mystery inside an enigma. Churchill
* TomCat! 2.9* * Have you tried an OFF line mail reader yet? Try it!

--- W2Q v1.47 [Eval]
* Origin: The Software Connection Home of The File Equalizer (1:281/778)

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Subj: UFO sightings (71/100)
From: Mark Freel
To : John Powell
Date: 03/09/91 10:13:00

JP> MF> Actually, I wonder why he goes fishing near Gulf Breeze!

JP>He does?! Lately? Hmmmm.

Lately, he might have been too busy. He likes to fish and has gone to a
number of places. Long before Desert Shield, I saw a picture in the newspa
and remembered the location because it was associated with other events.
* SLMR 1.05 * A riddle wrapped in mystery inside an enigma. Churchill
* TomCat! 2.9* * Have you tried an OFF line mail reader yet? Try it!

--- W2Q v1.47 [Eval]
* Origin: The Software Connection Home of The File Equalizer (1:281/778)

Sub: N~UFO
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Subj: RE: SIGHTINGS (72/100)
From: Scott Ecker
To : Chris Poulsen
Date: 03/10/91 00:50:19

> Speaking of stalling cars caused by UFO's.....are there any
> physicists out there who have any theory what force would
> cause a car to 'play dead' without any permanent damage?

Electromagnetic forces have been suggested, I think, although without
reviewing some of the literature on my bookshelf, I could not elaborate any
further. If I can locate any references, or additional information, I will
post another message to you.

Best Regards,

Scott

--- TMail v1.17
* Origin: West Coast Pyro Board (209 661-5355) (1:205/45)

Sub: N~UFO
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Subj: RE: SIGHTINGS (73/100)
From: Scott Ecker
To : Robert De welles
Date: 03/10/91 00:51:40

SE> Under normal circumstances, you are certainly correct, however in
SE> many close proximity UFO sightings, automobiles *will* stall, and
SE> all electrical functions will cease. Not a direct example of
SE> "extra-terrestials," but certainly a legitimate part of the UFO
SE> phenomenon.

> I don't really think so I mean U.F.O.s....I how do we know that
> the ufos are balls of energy,I mean things like that (battery
> and all) are all natural!

Ball lightening, corona discharge, what? Your message is difficult to
understand. Anyway, there is quite some difference between an ambiguous
light seen in the distance, and a structured craft with lights, windows,
whatever, seen at close proximity. Certainly you do not mean to suggest that
"car stopping," in the UFO context, is purely coincidental?

> I understand about some of them but most of ther time people are
> just making all those stories up.

Statistically, hoaxes do not represent the majority of UFO sightings--that
destincition belongs to misinterpretation of astronomical or conventional
objects, and the like. The exact figures from the Air Force's Project Blue
Book study, as recorded in _The Hynek UFO Report_, were: Astronomical:
26.0%; Aircraft: 17.0%; Hoaxes: 0.9%; Psychological: 0.5%. This is only a
partial list, but serves its purpose nonetheless. You will also note that of
some 12,618 sightings recorded by Blue Book, a mere 116 were identified as
hoaxes. Even the 701 listed as "unknown" far outnumber those listed as
fraudulent. Hardly a convincing case for the "made up" theory.

Best Regards,

Scott

--- TMail v1.17
* Origin: West Coast Pyro Board (209 661-5355) (1:205/45)

Sub: N~UFO
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Subj: UFO funnybone (74/100)
From: Dale Anderson
To : Ben Curtis
Date: 03/07/91 06:10:59

In a message to Dale Anderson <05 Mar 91 10:24> Ben Curtis wrote:

BC> I feel that a spark of laughter is in order, from time to time.
BC> Maybe some people feel that UFOlogy is a joke. Maybe those
BC> jokesters really feel that UFO's are a probability, and deep down
BC> they might fear it. Fear of this kind of thing brings on a shield.
BC> Laughter/jokes are that vent.

Hi Ben. Your 101% correct with me. Humor manifests itself in different ways
and is a nervous release at times. The intent of my message was to propose
some type of often seen 'rules of the echo' to let new people know (and remind
the veterans) what to expect and what is expected of them when interacting with
the echo participants. I'm sure I am not the first to suggest this, I don't
like to see people ridiculed for no reason.

BC> I have had my experiences. I don't relate it to anyone, because of
BC> the "beyond belief" syndrome. But, I do love a good natured spoof

Ben, you surely know this is a 'beyond belief' area. We attempt to make sense
of all the nonsense. That just isn't possible sometimes. The trouble is one
doesn't always know where the nonsense ends and the sense starts. I think that
is why a degree of respect is needed, especially to inform the new participant.
To let them know that even if their sighting sounds like a lot of nonsense,
there is a place to attempt explanation.

BC> now and then. I guess that might be the question, if it is good
BC> natured, or not.

I respect and understand your viewpoint. I agree that jokes are occasionally
needed for uplifting the monotony of seriousness here, if they are good natured
and most importantly, don't offend a participant _personally_. I simply dislike
watching certain people (_most often new_) jump into a new or old message and
make 'wisecracks' at someones claimed experiences. I don't see how that is
conductive to productive discussion. My main concern is for those new individua
ls
who have been sent the questionable message, and might not view it as funny.
Instead of relating their experience (or whatever it is), they might decide
to 'tune out' the echo and not return. As it is said, "first impressions are
lasting impressions". Ridicule is fine in my view, _if_ it is deserved. Perhap
s,
just leaving the decision to the receiver of the message is more appropriate,
or ignoring it until it ceases. I absolutely am not trying to be a 'topic cop',
I don't have the expertise or patience necessary. I do tend to get a bit defens
ive
at times, as you and others have witnessed. It _is_ done with a well intended
purpose and encourage anyone here to present differing opinions.

BC> I wouldn't make an all out rule on laughter, just because a few are
BC> too serious for thier health. Why censor ... like the government
BC> seems to do relating to UFO's?

No way!! I don't want to see a ban on laughter, I need all the laughter I can
get. I believe in free information flow and don't want to see that flow obstruct
ed
in unnecessary ways. I appreciate your response and for stating your views.
I strongly believe that the echo is important for others, and 'hackers' like
me, with a serious interest in the phenomena. I feel that next to paying the
big boys of electronic storage and transfer $6.00+ an hour for discussion forums
and e-mail, this is a unique medium and needs to exist. BTW, I did laugh at
the 'gas station' joke, really!

BC> 001122[[: Ben Curtis :]]221100
BC> Now ... where did I put that diskette?

It's under the slice of pizza. ;-)
Regards,
Dale
--- XRS!% 4.02
* Origin: \_Speculation sometimes leads to Confirmation_/ (Quick 1:19/19.22)

Sub: N~UFO
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Subj: Cover up (75/100)
From: Dale Anderson
To : John Feilke
Date: 03/07/91 06:48:12

In a message to Dale Anderson <05 Mar 91 16:04> John Feilke wrote:

>DA=>waiting to see the videos. Anyone have the ABC address? I
>DA=>feel like sending a letter.

JF> I left the phone number on here the night it happened. Can't find
JF> it here right now. Look at the posts for the last monday night in
JF> FEB. I called up ranted & raved to the answering lady and she kindly

After reading some recent messages, someone had posted the number. Thanks for
the reply. BTW, I like your method of 'ranting and raving'.

Regards,
Dale
--- XRS!% 4.02
* Origin: \_Speculation sometimes leads to Confirmation_/ (Quick 1:19/19.22)

Sub: N~UFO
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Subj: files (76/100)
From: Dale Anderson
To : Ken Willoughby
Date: 03/08/91 06:27:46

In a message to Bill English <02 Mar 91 10:56> Ken Willoughby wrote:

KW> Sorry I am going to be out of commission for about 2 weeks to a
KW> month with a Melanoma {tumor} operation on my eye. I may be able
KW> to use my daughter's computer if the opportunity permits.

Ken,

I don't know if you'll receive this message before your hospital stay. Pleas
e
know that I wish you the best in your operation. We expect to see you back
here when you are recovered, or sooner. Take care.

Dale
--- XRS!% 4.02
* Origin: \_Speculation sometimes leads to Confirmation_/ (Quick 1:19/19.22)

Sub: N~UFO
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Subj: Government cover-up (77/100)
From: Dale Anderson
To : Rick Moen @ 914/207
Date: 03/08/91 06:50:47

In a message to Dale Anderson <02 Mar 91 02:57> Rick Moen @ 914/207 wrote:

> DA> Have you researched the Hudson Valley sightings? ...

> RM> I haven't had a chance to (but do not profess to be a UFO
> RM> investigator, in the first place). The problem with many of

> DA> was conducted as best it could under the circumstances, more
> DA> importantly, as it was happening. Maybe the total story isn't

RM> many, many times in the past, cases have been misinterpreted and
RM> vastly overblown, and a far different picture has appeared on
RM> further examination. For all I know, a different picture in
RM> _this_ case may already be evident. I just don't know the case
RM> concerned, though UFO history would suggest that you're jumping
RM> to conclusions.

I am anticipatory of your description of "a different picture", if you can,
of "_this_" case and why I am jumping to conclusions. Cases _have_ been misinte
rpreted
in the past. Researchers are human and subject to error. Let's scrutinize
the information case by case, separately from the others. 'Night Siege' _is_
an informative book (and recommended). Ex-skeptic-government UFO researcher,
the late Hynek was even involved.

> DA> The data cannot sit and be outdated, as the witnesses at
> DA> Roswell,...

RM> The _alleged_, never-produced witnesses, you mean?

The research did produce witnesses, whose stories are in books/articles about
the incident. Some of the witnesses preferred, at their request, to remain
anonymous as to their true identity for personal reasons. As I stated before,
anyone with a serious interest in locating the witnesses should do so through
the investigators of the original research. I do not have personally researched
information on this topic.

> DA> ...but must be researchable now for future researchers to benefit.
> DA> Rather than recite the book, I'll just say that the reports were
> DA> safely in the _hundreds_,

RM> As I've said before, _quantity_ of evidence in itself means
RM> nothing. Every year, on Christmas Eve, there are hundreds of
RM> reported sightings of flying reindeer and red-suited fat men.
RM> That doesn't mean we should be solemnly discussing Close
RM> Encounters of the Santa Kind. ;-)

Sure, if you say so. What echo is Santa on? ;-)

> DA> down-range of the initial reported location. A large
> DA> percentage of the sightings described basically the same shape,
> DA> speed, etc..., of the object.

RM> This only shows they were likely _seeing the same thing_.
RM> It doesn't tell you what the thing _was_.

Good, we have established the witnesses were not subject to individual error
and misinterpretations. What would be the next step?

> RM> especially the Cooper/Lear variety. Probably, the common
uncompress: corrupt input
> RM> scientific attitude is "40 years of study, and they're still
> RM> coming up with just bizarre conspiracy bulldada stuff?" ...

> DA> I don't agree with your analogy for scientific disregard
> DA> towards the phenomenon.

RM> I don't quite follow: It wasn't an analogy.

RM> I was simply making a stab at guessing why most scientists are
RM> generally unwilling to listen to UFOlogists (which is what you
RM> asked). However, as I noted, you asked the wrong guy. To find
RM> out what scientists think, I think you had best ask _them_.

Your correct, it is not an analogy. I retract that statement. Your "stab"
is probably accurate to a sense, but still invalid in my view.

It was your skeptical and scientifically based thinking that prompted the questi
ons,
_if_ I am correct with this overview. Do you know of any
scientists that might wish to participant on the echo?

> DA> I know it is just an example, but scientists cannot (I trust)
> DA> be that ignorant of the data.

RM> Such touching faith! <grin> You are being careful, I hope, to
RM> distinguish between the data and their interpretation. It's the

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