SUBJECT: ERIE UFO SIGHTING FILE: UFO1430
[The following is an edited version of Sunday, January 8, 1989 online CO with
Rick Dell'Aquila discussing his investigation of the Lake Erie UFO]
8:07:29 PM EST Sunday, January 8, 1989
User User ID Nod Rm Name / Forum Area
---- ------------ --- --- -----------------
36 76012,3361 MRT 5 Ted
46 71330,3655 JAK 5 GREG
56 75376,1620 CVK 5 Dale
63 73367,472 CVK 5 Rick
65 76004,2063 ACM 5 mike h
78 70511,17 CRZ 5 Mike
95 72377,1264 ANY 5 jc
94 71450,3504 ANN 5 Bert
103 71340,276 SOR 5 Mark.Y
129 76703,603 DCI 5 Jim Horn VETSIG
(Ted) Our special Guest tonight is Cleveland attorney and UFO investigator, Rick
Dell'Aquila. Rick and his investigative partner, Dale Wedge, are responsible
for the investigation of the Lake Erie UFO. In addition to numerous files on
this subject in LIBrary 10, the next issue of The MUFON Journal will feature
this case in an article titled "Ohio Flap". Any opening remarks Rick? GA
(5,Rick) Thanks Ted...Hello everyone. I first became aware of this case on
reading an article in the Cleveland Plain Dealer 3/7/88, attributing a series of
UFO reports by the Coast Guard and civilians near the CEI coal-burning power
plant over Lake Erie on 3/4/88 to misidentifications of the planets Venus and
Jupiter which were in close proximity to each other that weekend. The article
quoted a local astronomer that lights reported entering and leaving the
"planets" were "spontaneous gas emissions" from the planets' surface. I would
have turned to the next page but for this ridiculous explanation. Instead, I
phoned the astronomer who confirmed that the planetary explanation was his
theory because "if they did not relate what they saw to the planets, then they
must have been seeing the planets." But the first time he had heard the
"spontaneous gas" explanation was when he read it in the paper himself. By now I
was very curious about the accuracy of the rest of the article and I phoned my
co-investigator, Dale Wedge. Dale and I began an investigation and ran a
classified ad we received a response from someone who had taken a photo of a
brightly glowing triangular object over his yard that same night near the Perry
Nuclear Plant on Lake Erie and in the course of our investigation, we found
several other witnesses who have seen some things over the same period. We also
obtained a Coast Guard incident report on the sighting and interviewed witnesses
on the beach with the Coast Guard. They described several small brightly glowing
triangular objects
zipping over the lake leaving a wake of ice below and behind them.
These objects were emitted from a large football shaped object that
ultimately landed on the ice below the horizon. The ice was crackling
loudly and in an abnormal manner until the object landed and everything
came deathly silent. The local CSICOP membership contends that the
large object was the planets and the smaller triangular objects were
the wings of seagull illuminated by moonlight. The photograph was examined by
Dr. Maccabee and found to depict a uniformly glowing bright triangular object.
ga
(Ted) I'll now open the floor to ? ga
(5,Bert) ?
(5,Bert) Rick, can you tell us how you were able to come by the Coast Guard
report? Also. What do you have now in the way of results of FOIA requests, etc.
GA
(5,Rick) A copy of the report was obtained by other investigators through the
FOIA after the Coast Guard first denied its existence. I originally obtained a
copy from a confidential source...However, as I say, the Coast Guard has since
released it through FOIA. ga
(Ted) At the MUFON meeting in Lincoln you were discussing the Lake Erie UFO
photos with Dr. Bruce Maccabee when Bert and I walked up to you. Has the good
Dr. done any analysis yet? And if so what are the results? ga
(5,Rick) Yes, he has examined it and some other information we sent him
concerning the camera...His opinion is that the image depicted is not the result
of a flaw in the film or camera, but an accurate depiction of some uniformly
glowing triangular shaped object...Based upon his calculations and our
measurements at the scene, the roughly equilateral triangle is approximately
25-35 feet tall. ga
(Ted) ga Bert
(5,Bert) Rick the fact that the CG has released the report via FOIA seems to
acknowledge that something did indeed go on. Did any additional information get
released as well, or do you think they release the copy simply because they knew
it was already captured. Also, who did they release the report to?
(5,Rick) Dale and I have been knocking ourselves out trying to take this
investigation to the next logical step, which is to interview the USCG
themselves. This has been an exercise in futility to this point. I do not
believe that there has been an explicit admission by the USCG that something
unexplained went on. Their position is that their personnel misidentified the
planets for a period exceeding one hour using binoculars and describing the
erratic movements, spotlights, colors, etc. which are in the report and the
witnesses description. The report was printed in a CAUS Bulletin and released to
several other investigators after Dale and I made it public. ga
(Ted) What did the CG have to say about their comment that they were told "This
is out of their league? " GA
(5,Mark.Y) ?
(5,Rick) This was a statement made to the civilian witnesses the hearsay we have
is to the effect that the USCG wanted to go out on the lake the next day to
investigate but were told not to do so since the matter was "out of their
league." ga
(Ted) Mark Y is next GA Mark
(5,Mark.Y) (Slightly off the topic.) Were there multiple evenings of sightings
or is this an isolated case? GA
(5,Rick) There have been multiple evening and multiple witness sightings over
this period, all seemingly within a 10-15 square mile area we have reports and
investigations on-going over this area from September 1987 to as recently as
November 1988...But that weekend seemed to be a peak period. ga
(Ted) Is there any evidence of missing time with any of the witnesses? ga
(5,Rick) No. ga
(Ted) Can you tell us anything about the most recent sightings? ga
(5,Rick) The 11/88 sighting involved a brightly lit cigar shape viewed in the
daylight for about 15 minutes which is identical to one reported by two
witnesses in September 1987. There have been reports of objects hovering over
or near the nuclear power plant and one report of a low level fly-by by an
unmarked black helicopter, among some other things. ga
(5,Bert) ?
(Ted) Ga Bert
(5,Bert) Regarding the question of missing time is this issue routinely explored
when you interview a witness? GA
(5,Rick) Dale and I have been particularly sensitive to this question especially
since one of the witnesses was pregnant at the time of the sighting. It would
be premature for us to say anything about that subject without more than we have
to this point. ga
(5,Bert) follow
(Ted) GA Bert
(5,Bert) Are you saying then that the question of missing time is indeed
discussed with your witnesses, but that it is premature to reveal it here? GA
(5,Rick) No...I don't want you to jump to that conclusion...but we do routinely
explore the question with the witnesses. ga
(5,Dale) !
(Ted) GA Dale
(5,Dale) I just wanted to note for Bert that the witness did have her baby in
September of 1988. ga
(Ted) What did it's eyes look like (HAH!) How many people, in total , have now
seen this UFO? ga
(5,Rick) On the night in question there were 4 civilians and two USCG personnel
on the beach and two witnesses present in the area of the photograph. ga
(Ted) How about other nights (or days? ) ga
(5,Rick) We have been talking to about two dozen people to date. ga
(5,Dale) !
(Ted) Ga Dale
(5,Dale) On the question of the release of the USCG document, I think it is
noteworthy to explain that an underling from the USCG released the document to a
news source who wants to remain anonymous. Once that was done, I believe that
they could not hide the fact that there was one, therefore, they had to release
it to others. From that point, the well has dried up also, in Just Caus,
someone asked through FOIA about USCG documents after the document we have. The
USCG said they had no such documents, but Caus put the document that we have
next to this letter of denial. You figure it out.ga
(5,Bert) ?
(Ted) Ga Bert
(5,Bert) Rick. You and Dale have put together a nice collection of documents
which give a rather comprehensive coverage of what happened the peak evening.
Once you had all this info together along with the CG report, did you go to the
news media with it?GA
(5,Dale) !
(5,Rick) We have sent copies and letters to Television ,radio and print media
throughout this part of Ohio with very little response, except for a local UHF
TV station which interviewed me after their airing of UFO Coverup: Live. They
have suggested a longer segment on this case with me but that has not yet
materialized. ga
(Ted) GA Dale
(5,Dale) Correct me if I'm wrong Rick. I believe Rick contacted the media in an
effort to gain information instead of publicizing it, up to the UFO Live
program. There was a lady on an FM station that said her son was a USCG person
at the scene of the incident on that night. Rick tried to get a copy of the
tape but the radio station did not respond. We were contacted about going on TV
around the time of the sightings, but felt that this would jeopardize the
investigation with other who would state they saw the object for publicity sake.
Now, I hope Rick can get on TV to promote the case and get more info from
sources that may know something about that night.ga
(Ted) mike h. did you have a ? ga
(5,mike h) yep. Dale: I really hate to bring this up, but is the Sept. birth
related to your now notorious benevolent disinformation campaign? And what are
we supposed to believe about the Erie information if this is indeed the case? ga
(5,Dale) Rick had no knowledge of what I was doing. He has chastised me for it,
since he has put so much time into this case. This, in my opinion is Rick's
case, and in that manner, you should only give credibility to his facts, and not
mine. Rick is a credible attorney and investigator and should not be
questioned.ga
(5,mike h) sorry
(Ted) No one here is above "questioning" but I think I understand what you mean.
Rick have you read any of the Cooper/Lear "stuff" and if so what do you think?
ga
(5,Rick) Yes I have read those materials and I am waiting for evidence as far as
my personal opinion: I HOPE its not true. ga
(Ted) SO do I. Several months ago we had a member by the name of Neil Palumbo
who was investigating a case of UFO crashing through the ice near Rochester.
Have you any knowledge of this person or his case? ga
(5,Rick) Someone mentioned it to me briefly and I find this one of the more
interesting aspects of these cases...That (At least at Lake Erie) the object
landed below the horizon onto the ice, where the smaller triangular objects
returned and hovered over it as it emitted several bright lights, one of the
triangle shone a spotlight onto the large object and at some point the entered
the large object one by one, whereupon it shut off its lights and was no longer
visible...But these things have been reported from time to time over Lake Erie
as well as Lake Ontario. ga
(Ted) I think it was Palumbo that claimed to have evidence of an under water
structure. Dale, do you remember any of this? ga
(5,Dale) Yes. I believe that Neil had been working at a library and ran across
some maps that showed (to him) that there were some under water bases in Lake
Ontario. I don't recall the extent or the information that he had on this. I
believe that there was something in LIB10 on this at one time.ga
(5,Bert) !
(Ted) Perhaps in light of recent information it might be a good idea to contact
him. GA Bert
(5,Bert) As I recall Palumbo and several others have been investigating UFOs
entering and leaving the water at a sight near Toronto. They apparently had been
studying this for some time and were going to put the story together in a book
that would come out in 1990. I remember he said that what they think is some
sort of base could actually be seen in some satellite photographs, but he would
not tell us where to look, because he didn't want to give the story away. I got
the feeling that he eventually was afraid he told us too much and that is why he
stopped showing up here on Sunday evenings. In any case, I think Dale actually
spoke to him on the phone. Is that right Dale. GA
(5,Dale) !
(Ted) Ga Dale
(5,Dale) I wanted to say Bert is absolute correct, the maps that Neil spoke
about were satellite photo maps that he ran across. Where he never did disclose
to me. I was unable to gain information in talking to him and just sent him
copies of our information at that time.ga
(Ted) His PPN is 71211,2217
(5,Rick) Before we sign-off here, I wanted to leave my post office box in case
anyone wants to drop me a line, or if Mr. Palumbo should read this:
P.O. Box 29163
Parma, Ohio 44129
(5,Dale) !
(Ted) GA Dale
(5,Dale) I have a question for Rick. Rick and I have been upset that this case
hasn't made the MUFON Journal, since it gives many different elements not seen
in a lot of cases (e.g., official documents, photos, and multiple independent
witnesses). Rick, when did you find out that they would put your article in the
Journal and what will it say as opposed to the article that was written last
year, but not published? ga
(5,Rick) This has been a disappointment for me apparently, MUFON will print a
VERY preliminary summary which was sent to them in April of 1988 when Dale and I
were hip deep in the investigation (complete with telephone problems). The first
notice that I had about the article being printed came from Ted this morning. I
regret that MUFON didn't contact us sooner before printing the article since we
have so much more and better information to add now. ga
(5,Dale) !
(Ted) GA Dale
(5,Bert) !
(5,Dale) I was just wondering if this was done in order to get the Central
States most important case in the Journal before an award was made? Dan Wright
stated that this was the most important case in this sector of MUFON. Perhaps
it had to be justified through printing in the Journal.ga
(Ted) Let me state how this information came to me. In preparation for tonight's
CO I called Walt Andrus (I think on Thursday.) I asked him why this case hadn't
gotten more attention as it was fascinating to me. He said that it was to appear
in the next issue which was at the printers and should be in the mail in a week
to 10 days. He also stated that the article was to be titled "Ohio Flap".
Perhaps either Dale or Rick should confirm this. GA
(5,Bert) !
(5,Rick) I guess I am pleased that it will finally be publicized, but as I say,
the article which will appear does not do justice to the scope and details of
the on-going "flap". ga
(Ted) GA Bert
(5,Bert) Just for the record, it's worth noting that in the FENWICK files, which
are on LIB10, there is reference to a UFO base located in Lake Ontario near
Hamilton. That would place it in the same area that Palumbo et al are doing
their research. I would recommend taking a look at that part of the file, Rick.
I say "that part", because it is quite long and much of it seems pretty "far
out". GA
(5,Rick) Thanks for the reminder...I did download that file, I believe from
Paranet...I'll have to look at it again. ga
(Ted) Dale did you have a comment? ga
(5,Dale) No sir. I just guess maybe one. I wish Rick could have given justice
to the upcoming MUFON article by having the chance to upgrade his article. The
article you will read was done in the midst of the investigation, and not
towards the end. I guess lastly, Rick, is there anything available through the
mail about the investigation that can be given out rather cheaply to those
interested?ga
(5,Bert) !
(5,Rick) Yes...If anyone wants more info, write me at the Post Office Box. I'm a
little slow in responding, but I do get around to it, and since we intend to
continue pressing this investigation, there seems to be new developments
regularly. ga
(Ted) GA Bert
(5,Bert) Just wondered if you had considered sending some of your material to
UFO magazine or UFO Universe? GA
(5,Rick) Dale and I have talked about that and we will probably do something
along those lines eventually. ga
(Ted) What is this I hear about a book in the works? ga
(5,Dale) !
(5,Rick) Why does every investigation need to conclude in a book? I think this
sort of thing is the best way to get the most current information out there. ga
(Ted) Dale care to comment? ga
(5,Dale) I agree with Rick, but one thing that I would like to do is get Rick
out here to test out my handy dandy new VHS Camera and do a poorly done video to
show you what we did throughout this. This could help others understand what we
went through, what was done, and what can be done better. The Coyne's did it
Rick, remember?
(Ted) The Coyne's ? ga
(5,Dale) The Coyne's did a video on investigation. Rather good, but I think we
could make a video that is really quite interesting.ga
(Ted) Shirley and George? ga
(5,Dale) yeah.ga
(Ted) I'd like to see that. ga
(5,Rick) Not a bad idea. ga
(Ted) Sounds like you have a winner Dale! ga
(5,Rick) Let's talk later. ga
(5,Dale) The thing is this is if this ever happens again, I want to film it as
it happens from start to finish. Rick and I were left to audio tape, we taped
everything. Video would be a great asset for us all.ga
(Ted) Any other ?s ga
(Ted) Rick I want to thank you for spending your evening with us. It has been
informative and interesting. I will forward a copy of this CO to you after I
have cleaned it up. Again, thanks and don't be such a stranger to the ISSUES
forum. We are international and would love to have you visit us from time to
time. ga
(5,Rick) Thanks I'll stay in touch...Are you going to be in Las Vegas this
summer? ga
(Ted) I sure hope so. Anyone else? ga Let's hear it from those that plan to go
to the MUFON Las Vegas symposium. GA
(Ted) ME!
(5,Mike) Hope so!
(5,Dale) Need a baby sitter
(Ted) Take him with you!
(5,JIM) Do MUFONs bite?
(5,Rick) grrr
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