F I D O  N E W S --                   Vol.12  No.45    (06-Nov-1995)
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|  A newsletter of the       |   ISSN 1198-4589 Published by:          |
|  FidoNet BBS community     |   "FidoNews" BBS                        |
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|         /  \               |                                         |
|        /|oo \              |                                         |
|       (_|  /_)             |                                         |
|        _`@/_ \    _        |                                         |
|       |     | \   \\       |   Editors:                              |
|       | (*) |  \   ))      |        Donald Tees      1:221/192       |
|       |__U__| /  \//       |        Sylvia           1:221/194       |
|        _//|| _\   /        |                                         |
|       (_/(_|(____/         |                                         |
|             (jm)           |     Newspapers should have no friends.  |
|                            |                    -- JOSEPH PULITZER   |
+----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
|               Submission address: editors 1:1/23                     |
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|    Don -- [email protected]                          |
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                         Table of Contents
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1.  Editorial.....................................................  1
2.  Articles......................................................  2
     Response to Mr Fredrik Bennisons............................  2
3.  Fidonews Information..........................................  3
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                             Editorial
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I listen to a lot of the sysop echos, even post in a few of
them. It strikes me, lately, that the fights have become almost
ceremonial in nature.  As if the participants know there has to
be a better way, but have not quite figured out how yet.

It strikes me that relationships should have a reset button.  A
big red one that we could press every once in a while, and start
over.  Without the harsh words.  Without dredging up old history
from a previous, and younger life.

I read the wizard of Oz recently.  Maybe declaring a new
variable actually does create it.  Like magic.

Here is my favourite all time poem by Max.  She called it

Quickie Code:
       push
       push
       push
       POP

P.S.   Please forgive such an unbalanced editorial.
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                              Articles
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Response to Mr Fredrik Bennisons
article in FNews 12/43 (23-Oct-1995)
From: Robert Hoerner (2:2476/7)

Hello Fredrik,

this is a nice chat, isn't it :)

Ok, let's remember: in an article some weeks ago you wrote that
NC_ELECT, a so called policy addentum set in force by Z2C this
year, could be a good example of how to implement some democracy
in FidoNet.

I answered that this NC_ELECT has not been set in force following
the rules in P4, section 8, and therefore, from my point of view,
it is nothing but a paper, at least it is no "democratic policy".

You answered:
"I'd like to point out that P4 section 8 describes how a new
version of FidoNet policy is ratified. NC_ELECT however is no
new FidoNet Policy proposal, it is simply a Zone policy document
as mentioned in section 1 of FidoNet Policy4."

This leads me to one little question: if policy 4, section 8, is
NOT to be used when implementing a new (here of course: a new local)
FidoNet Policy Document, which guideline has to be used instead?

And another question arises from policy 4, section 2.2:
"You must indicate that you have read, and agree to abide by, this
document and all the current policies of FidoNet."

"All the current policies"? Which policies could be meant?

You continue:
"FidoNet Policy 4 does in no way describe how these local policy
documents are ratified, the only restriction is that they must
have the approval of the IC if they contradict FidoNet Policy 4."

So in your opinion everybody could present his ideas to the IC,
asking him to "appove" it to be a new zone policy? And this is, in
your eyes, only necessary if those ideas "contradict" P4?

Come on, and you are talking about democracy? Democracy, Fredrik,
FidoNews 12-45                 Page:  3                    06 Nov 1995

means (at least in my tired eyes it does mean) open discussion,
secret voting and publishing of the results.
Where has been the discussion? What could be changed?
Secret voting? Who voted, and who made those people eligible to
vote? Publishing of the results?

You wrote:
"NC_ELECT _was_ democratically approved, a vote was held among
all Region Coordinators in Zone 2 and a majority voted to accept
the document."

I friendly invite you to prove it:

When exactly has the voting been held?
Who exactly participated in this voting?
What exactly has been the result?

And, last but in no way least:
Based on which written rule (you may call it a "policy") has the
voting been held? (this means: who has been eligible to vote,
where has this been published, where and when has the election
period and the name of the returning officer been published and
who decided about all these rules based on wich rules?)

I'd like to hear from you again,
      my best wishes
          Robert      (2:2476/8)

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                         Fidonews Information
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FidoNews 12-45                 Page:  4                    06 Nov 1995


------- FIDONEWS MASTHEAD AND CONTACT INFORMATION ----------------

Editors: Donald Tees, Sylvia Maxwell
Editors Emeritii: Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell,
                 Vince Perriello, Tim Pozar
                 Tom Jennings
"FidoNews" BBS
   FidoNet  1:1/23
   BBS  +1-519-570-4176,  300/1200/2400/14400/V.32bis/HST(DS)

more addresses:
   Don  -- 1:221/192, [email protected]
   Sylvia- 1:221/194, [email protected]

(Postal Service mailing address)
   FidoNews
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voice:  (519) 570-3137
sylvia: (519) 579-8029

Fidonews is published weekly by and for the members of the FIDONET
INTERNATIONAL AMATEUR ELECTRONIC MAIL system. It is a compilation
of individual articles contributed by their authors or their
authorized agents. The contribution of articles to this compilation
does not diminish the rights of the authors. Opinions expressed in
these articles are those of the authors and not necessarily those of
FidoNews.

Authors retain copyright on individual works; otherwise FidoNews is
Copyright 1995 Donald Tees. All rights reserved.  Duplication
and/or distribution permitted for noncommercial purposes only. For use
in other circumstances, please contact the original authors, or the eds.

OBTAINING COPIES: The most recent issue of FidoNews in electronic
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PRINTED COPIES may be obtained by sending SASE to the above paper-mail
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INTERNET USERS: FidoNews is available via FTP from ftp.fidonet.org,
in directory ~ftp/pub/fidonet/fidonews.

Anyone interested in getting a copy of the INTERNET GATEWAY FAQ may
freq GISFAQ.ZIP from 1:133/411.0, or send an internet message to
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response.  People wishing to send inquiries directly to David Deitch
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previously listed address.

FidoNews 12-45                 Page:  5                    06 Nov 1995

SUBMISSIONS: You are encouraged to submit articles for publication in
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from 1:1/23 as file "ARTSPEC.DOC". Please read it.

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    ' ' disgreement is actually necessary,
        or we'd all have to get in fights
        or semethin to amuse ourselves,,
        and create the requisite chaos."
                          -Tom Jennings
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