F I D O N E W S -- Vol.11 No.49 (05-Dec-1994)

F I D O N E W S -- Vol.11 No.49 (05-Dec-1994)
+----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
| A newsletter of the | ISSN 1198-4589 Published by: |
| FidoNet BBS community | "FidoNews" BBS |
| _ | +1-519-570-4176 |
| / \ | |
| /|oo \ | Small animal psychology and |
| (_| /_) | Spiritual guidance Department: |
| _`@/_ \ _ | Rev. Richard Visage 1:163/409 |
| | | \ \\ | |
| | (*) | \ )) | Editor: |
| |__U__| / \// | Donald Tees 1:221/192 |
| _//|| _\ / | Sylvia Maxwell 1:221/194 |
| (_/(_|(____/ | Tim |
| (jm) | Newspapers should have no friends. |
| | -- JOSEPH PULITZER |
+----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
| Submission address: editors 1:1/23 |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| MORE addresses: |
| |
| Don -- [email protected] |
| Tim Pozar -- [email protected] |
| David Deitch -- 1:133/411.411, [email protected] |
|
| submissions=> [email protected] |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| For information, copyrights, article submissions, |
| obtaining copies of fidonews or the internet gateway faq |
| please refer to the end of this file. |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
========================================================================
Table of Contents
========================================================================

1. Editorial..................................................... 2
2. Articles...................................................... 2
Discriminatory Discrimination............................... 2
RAMMING ECHOS............................................... 4
Swamp Swine Magazine,....................................... 5
SYNDICATE-NET............................................... 7
How can the ZC ignore this?................................. 9
Fidonews for the Blind...................................... 18
In Consideration of Others.................................. 18
A chat with our resigning FidoNet Z6C, Mr. Honlin Lue....... 19
3. Fidonews Information.......................................... 21
FidoNews 11-49 Page: 2 05 Dec 1994

========================================================================
Editorial
========================================================================
Having just driven 600 hundred kilometers home from a job in
the north, this will be a quick editorial. We are rapidly
approaching the deadline.

BTW, how does one know that one is really "up north" when in
Canada? Well, you hit the scan button on the radio, and it just
circles the dial for an hour of driving. Then the radio
suddenly blares into existance at about 3000 decibels, just
about scaring you off the road. Passing a sign that says "New
semi's from builder -- $19,900" also clues you in that you are
not in the city anymore.

A note to the various sides of the articles for the blind
issue. If someone can write up some guidelines, we will insert
them into ARTSPEC.DOC. That document is about due for revision
anyway. I have to caution, however, that only about two out of
every five articles pay any attention to the specification.
About the only current requirement is do not use beyond
column 72, and an asterisk in column one is the title line.
Today, four articles used asterisks in column one for bullets,
and three had to be rejustified. While I have some sympathy for
the issue, there is a limit to how much work one can do.
========================================================================
Articles
========================================================================
Discriminatory Discrimination
by Steve White

It has been suggested in a previous article of the Snooze that the
format and basic construction of the Snooze is discriminatory against
sight-impaired persons. While I can sympathize with the situation as
presented, and must admit I had never considered it before, a second
article in the same vein has raised a more disturbing specter than the
subject of the articles themselves.

Quite plainly, it would seem accusations of discrimination are being
leveled against the publishers of the Snooze because someone did not
get his or her way. While the argument presented in reference to
taking out unnecessary characters, etc., was sound in and of itself,
the second article on the same subject carried a tone of nothing less
than common "strong-arm" intent in bullying someone into a course of
action favorable to the author.

I would like to remind that author that while I'm sure there are
problems for the sight impaired which we can find accomodation for,
the sight-normal readership of the Snooze might be quite happy with the
current format, thank you.

Discrimination is the act of making a clear distinction or acting on
the basis of prejudice. A discriminatory act against a handicapped
person would be along the lines of erecting a building on top of a
FidoNews 11-49 Page: 3 05 Dec 1994

foundation with 50 steps leading to the access points and not
providing a means for wheelchair access. In other words, the "locking
out" of the individual discriminated against from activities and places
normally afforded other individuals.

No one has "locked out" or published an issue of the Snooze in such a
way as to exclude the sight impaired. It may not be as convenient as
a sight-impaired person might like, but it's obviously legible even to
a reading device. The Snooze is not discriminatory. All are welcome
to participate.

Where the author of the article thought it was "callousness" on the
part of the editor in stating the editor's feelings on the situation
instead of implementing the author's suggested changes, even though
it might take several months, I would submit no changes are needed.
Perhaps the author should look at the text of his own articles for a
lesson in tactics. It was mentioned that a "large group of members
of this network" were discomfited without mentioning an actual figure.
It was also mentioned that a new version of the Snooze without the
current formating should become the Snooze itself. Also mentioned
was "my attempt at education."

While I must thank the author for raising my consciousness with regard
to the problems with ASCII characters and screen readers, I must
also say I'm disappointed with the tone and seeming intent of the
second article. Whether the author was trying to invoke feelings in
sight-normal persons similar to his own, I can't be sure of as I'm not
that author, but I can say with a resonable degree of certainty that I
would feel discriminated against if such sweeping changes were
undertaken in the format of the Snooze based on the fancies of a
minority. Yes, majorities can be discriminated against by minorities,
no matter the reason for the distinction.

Should we require all art galleries to carry two of each painting, one
for sighted persons and one with special textures for the sighting
impaired? The idea is ludicrous, yes, and an example of the extreme
being suggested by the author with regard to changes in the format of
the Snooze.

In summation, it would be nice if everyone could have their way in this
world, and everything was perfect. It would be grand if every store
carried the exact color and size to suit everyone. Just as there is
diversity in things bought and sold, though, there is diversity in
those who purchase, use, consume, and read those products. Nothing can
please everyone. I'm not going to suggest the author start his or her
own Fido newspaper as I feel this one is just fine for anyone's purpose
and it wouldn't be practical. What I would suggest is the author try
and compromise, if possible, or come up with a workable solution
acceptable to all, rather than a few, in solving his or her problems.

After all, wasn't the original article merely a complaint of
inconvenience? We all deal with inconvenience in one form or another
in our daily lives, some more than others. When the inconvenience
becomes the impossible, then I would agree something should be done
immediately. Where the inconvenience is simply an annoyance, then
FidoNews 11-49 Page: 4 05 Dec 1994

maybe the matter is just that, an annoyance, and shouldn't become
such an issue that baseless accusations are hurled without forethought
of the total picture or the certain knowledge of the motives of those
we don't agree with.

Force meets resistance. Threats beget threats. Sometimes you don't
succeed, no matter how hard you try. Calm and rational usually
prevails. Change takes place best one step at a time.

Hate mail and blatant flames should be directed to:

Steve White
1:3626/2

----------------------------------------------------------------------

RAMMING ECHOS

Original Area: Warnings
Original From: Bill Dirks (1:250/603)
Original To : All (1:250/603)

This is to inform and warn everyone who reads, handles,
receives, routes, etc. echomail within Fidonet and any other net
using FTN type mailers. I will TRY to keep this short.

Recently, a moderator of a Fidonet echo, in an effort to
get readers of echos similar to his, to only use his echo and
not the others, has enlisted the aid of a few people who using a
program called "Bogus" have flooded these other echos with virus
source code (actual) and some extreme adult material in an
effort to get nodes to cut those echos. Unfortunately, It has to
a large degree worked.

Without getting into the technical details, those wanting
to disrupt or flood an echo with nonsense can do so with the
program Bogus. The problem is with this program, these misfits
can "forge" mail to look legit to the "unsecure" system they
send it to. Who are the unsecure systems??

Any system that isn't operating with a session password
and/or packet passwords regarding echomail feeds, IN PARTICULAR
HUBS, are being hit. But here lies the problem. Unless all hubs
trace their calls to everyone calling them, this can and will
continue. The reason for this is the current ZC and ZEC for
Fidonet.

Yes, the ZC & ZEC are aware of the problem. They have even
been told who the "actual" responsible systems are for feeding
in this garbage. They have done nothing to date. The folks over
at PC tried to but received so much grief, they had to back off.

Be aware that the affected echo moderators have tried to cut
feeds, etc. to stop this. Those cut continue to win on appeal to
the ZC & ZEC because without a wiretap in place before targeted,
FidoNews 11-49 Page: 5 05 Dec 1994

this will continue to happen. Yes, it's that bad to provide
proof except.........

One of the main cretins let his pride get the best of him.
With his permission, an underground publication
published/acknowledged what he did. However..... even with this
presented to both the ZC & ZEC, they are not doing anything.

OVERALL, my warning is this. Do not accept echomail from
systems without a session password in place. Next, notify the
Fidonet Hierarchy that you are not happy with them doing
anything to combat the problem.

This is a very complex issue that's hard to explain
briefly. I probably created more questions than what I answered
to those aware of the problem. If you want to discuss this in
general terms without names and systems involved, I'll happily
answer any and all questions. Those wanting more specifics need
to address it to net mail.

While as yet unconfirmed, they have done this to at least
one echo in another network. It's 50%+ credible right now as the
program being used to disrupt current activities will work on
other networks also.

Anyway, if you have the time, write the ZC or ZEC and ask
why they haven't done anything to cutoff those nodes creating
the garbage in the Dirty_Dozen, Virus, and Virus_Info echos so
far even after they've been provided from numerous sources, who
the offenders are? You might be surprised by their response if
you get one, even if at the RC/REC level.

Bill Dirks

P.S. In the FWIW category, I'm personally pursuing this matter
along other channels to fix it.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Swamp Swine Magazine,
Laiphrog Tanker Division,
Shuckmagosh, Ohio

Dear Reverend Visage,

Bad craziness abounds. I am saddened to report that this
week's winner of an all expenses paid vacation in the "Betty
Ford Clinic For the Thinking Impaired" is none other than
Bob Satti (cue the plague of amoeba,his intellectual peers.)
Bob "Bob" Satti, demonstrated that basic literacy and
comprehension skills are not requisites for Fidogods when he
misread the appeal documents and ruled in support of our
narcoleptic RC, Rick "IS the Big Red Button The One You
Press to Transmit?" Johnston. Unfortunately, Bob "Bob" Satti
FidoNews 11-49 Page: 6 05 Dec 1994

(cue the plague of Speak 'N Spell Modules) only managed to
grunt a few short sentences in elucidating his contused
reasoning, but it was apparent that both the facts of the
case and basic logic were deemed irrelevant.

Someone with a higher tolerance for slow-moving,
non-sentient creatures ought to prod Bob and ask him just
what in Gawd's creation (with appropriate co-author credits
to Steve Winter) he found in the original policy complaint
that was either accurate or provided cause for banishment
from Fidonet. In any event, The Lukester's appeal will find
it's way into the lap of George Peace. (cue Banquo's ghost
in the form of Bob MacKay.)

To recap for our regular reader, a failed NC candidate named
Matthew Stein decided that he ought to file a policy
complaint against one of his detractors during the campaign.
The object of Stein's misaffections, Luke Kolin, had already
incurred the wrath of the RC, Rick "Weekend At Bernies"
Johnston by suggesting that Rick ought to pay at least lip
service to running a functional mailer. The policy
adjudication by the NC250 politely suggested that Stein was
being an annoying git, but Stein rushed off an appeal to
Johnston where he knew that concepts like truth, justice and
reality were lost in the black hole of the RC's sedimentary
mind. Without much surprise, Johnston ruled in Stein's
favour whereupon the matter was turfed upstairs to the feet
of the Fidogod, Bob "Bob" Satti.

It is obvious now, that the usage of multisyllabic words and
sentences longer than four words confused Satti, who issued
the literary equivalent of a few grunts in support of the
RC's demented logic. A nice warm hand job for Bob, I say,
and may the farce be with him and may his days in office be
numbered in low digits.

I was moved by the last Snooz wherein a concerned soul
expressed outrage that this esteemed organ contained words
which may not be suitable for viewing by children. Just as a
kind of baseline reality test, does anyone happen to know
whose children would read this thing, or is he making an
incredibly subtle point of about the arrested emotional
maturity of Fidonet sysops in general? We should be told.
Why is it, Visage, that there always seems to be someone
whose eyebrows don't meet on their forehead only by dint of
electrolysis, who emerges from the woodwork to whine about
content? As a good and decent gesture, I would think that
the sniveling soul should contribute at least six wholesome
articles to the snooze. Y'know, heartwarming stuff about
family picnics in front of the computer where Billy Jim Bob,
the web-footed offspring, says "Gosh" and "Swell" at regular
intervals.

Mr. " B 4 I 4 Q R U 18 Q T Pi?" Tharin's concerns were
expressed again in the latest snooz. He feels that ascii art
FidoNews 11-49 Page: 7 05 Dec 1994

in the Snooz is prejudicial to his rights as a sighted
impaired person who must hear each character through a voice
synth. I couldn't agree more with his sentiments and I would
hope that television programmers wake up to this same
insensitivity and drop the video feed from their broadcasts.
Gawd knows, we would not want any aspect of our lives to
rise above the lowest common denominator. Far be if for me
to suggest something sensible, but perhaps he could have
saved the birdshot expended from both barrels by enquiring
if there wasn't some kind soul who would volunteer to
produce and make file requestable, a voice synth friendly
version of the Snooz. I would empower Ms. Labamba for this
task but unfortunately, she has an over-hormonal response to
the voice synth's pronunciation of : "Zoo Kee Knee." (Just
as a form of community service, if Mr. Tharin embarks on
this task, perhaps he could also find someone willing to
reduce the snooz to "See Dick. See Jane" vocabulary so that
it can be comprehended by the less gifted Fidogods.)

I must go Visage, the Snooz dominatrix, Ms. Emelia, has your
latest petty cash vouchers in one hand, and Newt Gingrich's
ethics in the other. She looks dangerous and her unsettled
state really has nothing at all to do with the fact that I
shipped over a smallish flock of Emus to her house for
safekeeping. As a good and decent gesture, I suggest that
she be sent to the West Coast as Bob's Phonetics teacher.

Regards,

Doc Logger,
Giant Clam Rancher,
Yap Island, Micronesia

----------------------------------------------------------------------

SYNDICATE-NET
by Al Miller 1:261/1136

/\
\
\ YNDICATE-NET - (C) copyright 1994 -- Todd Alan Rourke
\/ Invitation for new members.

Syndicate Network was formed on October 20, 1991 when a group of
friends got together and decided to make a friendly, intellectually
stimulating network. Since then the network has expanded and we
currently have nodes all over North America.

The main reason people join networks is to obtain access to the
information contained in the ECHOs of the network. Syndicate Network
has it's share of intellectually stimulating ECHOs. A list of the
available ECHOs and their descriptions follows:

Administrative Echoes

FidoNews 11-49 Page: 8 05 Dec 1994

* SYN_SYSOP - Sysop only ECHO
SYN_HUB - HUB only ECHO
* SYN_GLOBAL - Main chat area
SYN_MODERATOR - Private MODERATOR echo.
SYN_OFFICE - Public network policy discussion area for users.
SYN_TESTXXX - Testing area for new nodes (specific to each net).
SYN_REGXXX - Regional forum (specific to each region).

Public Discussion Echoes

SYN-AMIGA - Amiga Users Forum
SYN-ATHEISM - Atheist discussion group.
SYN-BBS - BBS/SysOp support area.
SYN-C&PASCAL - C & Pascal programmers discussion.
SYN-CONSERV - Conservative political think-tank.
SYN-DOS - DOS-Based computing area.
SYN-RHETORIC - Conservatives & Liberals 'duke it out!'
SYN-EMA - Cinema and movie reviews/production.
SYN-ENVIRON - Environmental issues forum.
SYN-FAITH - Religious discussion group.
SYN-JIHAD - Atheism and Religion go to 'holy war!'
SYN-LIBERAL - Liberal political think-tank.
SYN-MAILER - Frontend mailer support forum.
SYN-MUSIC - Musical discussion and reviews.
SYN-OS2 - OS/2 users forum.
SYN-QDECK - QuarterDeck utility discussion.
SYN-SOUND - Sound cards, etc
SYN-TELECOM - Basics of telecommunications.
SYN-WINDOWS - Windows support area.
SYN-WRITERS - Writers forum for reviews/critique.
SYN-XBASE - XBASE programming discussion.
W-WOMEN - Women's issues, women only.
W-TEENS - Teen's issues, teens only.
W-RECOVERY - Addiction recovery, 12 steps.
W-PRICE - For sale/trade.
W-DEEP - Deep thoughts and nonsense.
W-HEALTH - Health and fitness.
W-SPEAK - Other languages (French, Spanish, etc).
W-FOOD - Food, dining and cooking.

File Echoes

* SYN_ADMIN - Nodelists, policy updates, etc.
SYN_ERGY - Politically related files.
SYN_THESIS - Religiously related files.

*= required to carry for net membership

So if you are interested in joining an intellectually stimulating
network then Syndicate network is the place for you. For more
information about Syndicate network you should contact:

ZEC: Todd Rourke, FidoNet 1:323/110
ZC: Al Miller, FidoNet 1:261/1136

FidoNews 11-49 Page: 9 05 Dec 1994

Both of these systems will have the latest policy documentation and ECHO
lists available for file request under the magic name SYN-NET.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

How can the ZC ignore this?
Mr. Bob Satti,
ZC

I am submitting this response to Rick Johnston's appeal
decision as an amicus curiae since I have direct knowledge
of the circumstances which generated the policy complaint,
was involved in several mediation attempts, and have an
interest as a sysop peasant concerning the misapplication of
Policy Complaints to achieve social objectives.

Rick Johnston's decision should be overturned for the
following reasons:

1) That the complaint arises out of the attempts by Matthew
Stein to use policy to foster his socially maladroit notions
of the purpose of Fidonet.

2) That the complaint, having already been the subject of
Mr. Kolin's removal from the net, is a form of
double-jeopardy.

3) That Mr. Stein participated in numerous mediation
meetings, agreed to settlements, and then reneged on each
agreement in his singular pursuit of Mr. Kolin's node
number.

4) That Johnston's findings of fact cannot be adduced from
the evidence, and particularly since the provenance of the
"evidence" was supplied by Mr. Stein.

5) That Johnston did not provide a copy of the requested
grounds for the appeal to Mr. Kolin prior to rendering a
decision.

6) That there was no demonstrable harm done to either Mr.
Stein or Fidonet in general by the alleged activities of Mr.
Kolin.

Point 1:

I was involved in a lengthy meeting with Luke Kolin, Rick
Johnston & Matthew Stein where the various complaints raised
by Mr. Stein were discussed. Mr. Kolin had been summarily
removed from both the democratically elected NC250 position
and from the nodelist by Rick Johnston; without benefit of
notice or an opportunity to provide a defense. The meeting
had been arranged to attempt to convince Mr. Johnston that
more than lip service to the concept of natural justice was
required from someone who professed to have the skills to be
FidoNews 11-49 Page: 10 05 Dec 1994

RC. During the meeting, it was clear that Mr. Stein's
political ambitions (he was standing as a candidate for
NC250) coloured his judgment with respect to Mr. Kolin.

At the end of the meeting, all parties had agreed to certain
conditions, one of which was the re-admittance of Mr. Kolin
in the nodelist. Mr. Johnston also agreed to the terms of
the agreement.

The following day, Mr. Stein, who was acting as co-NC at the
time, refused to honour the terms of the agreement, citing a
change of heart.

When Mr. Stein subsequently lost the election, he then filed
the policy complaint which is the basis for this appeal.

Another mediation meeting was arranged wherein Mr. Stein's
only contribution was a repetition of "I want Luke's
Nodenumber." It was clear that Mr. Stein's dislike of Mr.
Kolin precluded him from resolving what was obviously
something other than a technical problem.

Point 2: The issues in the policy complaint had already
resulted in Mr. Kolin's removal from the nodelist for a
period that lasted seven weeks. When the original complaint
was made, Mr. Johnston simply excised Mr. Kolin's nodenumber
from the nodediff submission without giving Mr. Kolin an
opportunity to provide a defense.

It would be ludicrous to allow Matthew Stein to revisit the
*same* issues and obtain an additional punitive action
against Mr. Kolin. It should be noted that there have been
no new complaints since the first series filed by Mr.
Stein. In fact, Mr. Kolin has served Net250 as the NEC since
his re-admittance to the net.

If sysops are to be permitted to file complaints, attain
judgments, and then file the same complaint over again which
results in yet another judgment then Fidonet will have
become a truly insane world.

Point 3:

Policy requires that an attempt be made at mediation. Mr.
Kolin had been the democratically elected NC of Net250. Mr.
Stein was a failed candidate for the NC position. Mr.
Kolin's response to the issues was to provide service to the
net by becoming NEC. Mr. Stein's response was to create a
"new net" called IT-NET and to actively solicit net250
sysops to leave net250 to become part of this new net. When
Mr. Stein did not convince a significant number of sysops to
join, Stein filed his policy complaint.

Mr. Johnston has a demonstrable conflict of interest with
respect to adjudicating this complaint. Mr. Stein had
FidoNews 11-49 Page: 11 05 Dec 1994

provided Mr. Johnston with a USENET feed at no cost to Mr.
Johnston. The current NC of net250 refuses to provide the
same service to Mr. Johnston.

It has been apparent that both Mr. Johnston's and Mr.
Stein's motivations in this matter have had very little to
do with a technical breach of policy, but rather installing
or removing favourable people to admin positions in net250.

Point 4:

Mr. Johnston's findings of fact are stretching the envelope
in terms of what any fair minded individual would call
"evidence". Mr. Johnston, in his appeal decision makes the
following statement:

" Additionally, anyone familiar with the workings of
the nodelist processing/generating program MakeNL will know
that MakeNL will only submit a nodelist segment when changes
have been made to the control and/or input files."

This would almost makes sense were it not written by someone
who has consistently fouled up the nodediff submissions,
been incapable of distributing the regional nodediff or
Fidonews. Mr. Johnston's technical abilities in this regard
are so abysmal that the nodediffs are distributed in Region
12 through the REC chain, and Fidonews is distributed on an
ad hoc basis by interested parties. Clearly, Mr. Johnston
cannot, with a straight face, count himself among those
"familiar with the workings of the nodelist
processing/generating program."

Mr. Johnston claims that he received a bogus nodediff
submission from a node flying a "250/0" address. Mr.
Johnston has been either unable or unwilling to actually
produce the alleged bogus nodediff submission. Mr. Johnston
acknowledges that he used neither session passwords nor
changed the net250 nodediff file name despite being asked to
do so.

Mr. Johnston's appeal then goes on to make reference to a
series of log files. In one case, the log files are provided
by Mr. Johnston himself. (It is fascinating that Mr.
Johnston is able to produce *these* log files, yet has been
unable to provide log files when he has made the erroneous
assertion that he did not receive nodediff submissions from
other nets.) Mr. Johnston also refers to another set of log
files and he identifies them as having been provided, *not*
by Mr. Kolin, but by Mr. Stein. No one in their right mind
would accept this form of third hand evidence.

It is the height of irony when Mr. Johnston goes on to
assert that he has discovered evidence that the log files
had been "doctored" but then leapt to the insupportable
conclusion that these files which passed through the hands
FidoNews 11-49 Page: 12 05 Dec 1994

of Mr. Stein were "doctored" by Mr. Kolin. If they were
doctored at all (which I will dispute in the next paragraph)
one would have to have a peculiar blindness to the rules of
evidence and logic to accept that they were doctored by
Kolin.

Mr. Johnston is close to correct in saying "Given that one
of the three files submitted by Mr. Kolin has been blatantly
tampered with, I feel that it is reasonable to conclude that
none of the three files can be taken at face value, and so
should be discarded." More accurately, he should have
characterized the three files as having been submitted by
Mr. Stein who alleged that they were from Mr. Kolin, but
quibbling aside; Mr. Johnston finds that the files have no
merit. Fair enough... but for Mr. Johnston to then follow
with an assertion that the case has been proved against Mr.
Kolin defies his own logic. In Mr. Stein's complaint, he
makes much of various system clock timing discrepancies
between Mr. Kolin and Mr. Johnston's system. Mr. Stein's
scientific (cough) method was to call both systems at least
a month after the alleged nodediff submission. By Mr.
Johnston's own account (attending one of his lame
explanations for why he'd screwed up the nodediff submission
yet again) her asserted that his system had crashed which
surely must have attended a reboot at least once. The
argument raised by Stein of a system timing variance is
nonsensical and would barely have any credence had his tests
been conducted on the day of the alleged nodediff
submission. Mr. Johnston relies upon a perceived timing
difference of less than two minutes to assert that the files
were doctored. (Just as a humorous exercise, it'd be a safe
bet that the same test applied to 75% of the files on Mr.
Johnston's system would probably generate the horrific
result that most of his files were "doctored" in similar
fashion.)

Point 5:

Mr. Stein's appeal request was a two sentence message
stating that he would like to appeal the NC's decision.
Surely the person whose appeal is being heard at the RC's
level is entitled to know the grounds for the appeal request
before being required to respond. Mr. Johnston's Kafkaesque
insistence that Mr. Kolin provide a response to an appeal,
before being given the reasons for the appeal is a travesty
of natural justice. Mr. Kolin, quite correctly, asked for
the grounds for the appeal and was refused by Mr. Johnston.

Point 6:

Where's the beef? By the admission of all parties, there was
no harm done to either Mr. Stein or to Fidonet. Mr. Stein
would have been blissfully unaware that *anything* had
happened had he not been fed with material by Mr. Johnston.
The bogus nodediff was not processed by Mr. Johnston's
FidoNews 11-49 Page: 13 05 Dec 1994

system so it did not propagate any errors or changes into
the nodelist. Mr. Stein's claim to be affected by the bogus
nodediff submission is absurd.

Conclusion:

Please uphold the original policy complaint decision
rendered by James Korolas, NC250, and remind Mssrs Stein and
Johnston that policy wasn't invented so that childish jihads
could be conducted against those they happen to dislike.

Stein Vs. Kolin
Decision posted by James Korolas, NC250

In adjudicating a Policy Complaint filed by one sysop
against another, the first determination must be an analysis
of whether the act of filing such a complaint represents
prima facie evidence of "being too easily annoyed" on the
part of the complainant.

The purpose of the policy complaint mechanism is to address
legitimate instances where actions of a sysop detrimentally
effect the operations of Fidonet. It was not meant to
provide the means for litigious sysops to ask for
punishments to be meted out for trivial reasons. In that
respect, any policy complaint must be judged as a
double-edged sword. If the issues raised are determined to
be motivated for less sanguine reasons than any possible
effect of the action being complained against, then there is
a case to be made that the problem lies with the
complainant.

In this instance Matthew Stein has raised one issue in
particular, and several other issues for which he omitted
any supporting documentation. In the latter category, the
allegations of theft leveled against Luke Kolin seem
particularly dangerous should there be no support for this
assertion and may be a matter more appropriately litigated
in a formal court action.

The issue raised by Matthew Stein is the assertion that Luke
Kolin submitted a nodediff segment to the RC when he was not
authorized to do so. No evidence was supplied which
indicated that there was any injury to either Matthew Stein
nor to Fidonet in general. No direct evidence is supplied
that Luke did, in fact, submit the nodediff segment. The
supplied material relies on inferential assumptions about
the "possibility" of the act, but does not prove the act.

No comment was offered as to why the RC would have viewed
the security of the nodediff segment submission to be of
such low importance as to have caused him (the RC) to avoid
implementing elementary security precautions.
Parenthetically, it is unusual and entirely inappropriate
that the current RC has been issuing sub judice opinions on
FidoNews 11-49 Page: 14 05 Dec 1994

this matter in advance of this complaint being appealed. If
it is the RC's intention to breach the agreements which he
was involved in negotiating, then at a minimum he should
have joined himself to this action and removed himself as
the appellant adjudicator.

Absent from Matthew Stein's policy complaint was the fact
that the issues raised had already been the subject of
negotiated agreements, several of which had involved Mr.
Stein in the first instance. It is readily apparent that Mr.
Stein, having agreed to a negotiated settlement in his
capacity as Co-NC of the net, is now asking to revisit the
issue in his capacity as a nodelisted sysop. Mr. Stein's
persistence in this matter provides a clue as to his
capacity to remain "too easily annoyed."

Had there been any direct evidence that Mr. Kolin submitted
the nodediff segment, I would have apportioned
responsibility equally to the cavilier security controls of
the RC and to Mr. Kolin. Further, I would have found the
matter required a remedy in terms of nodediff security, but
no banishment from the nodelist for Mr. Kolin.

As to Mr. Stein having launched the complaint, I find his
actions to be perilously close to being "too easily annoyed"
but not quite extreme enough to require any sanctions. There
is no doubt that Mr. Stein's disenchantment with Mr. Kolin
is manifest, but the purpose of Fidonet policy complaints is
not to adjudicate social interactions.

Complaint dismissed.

Wed 26 Oct 94 23:16 Rcvd: Fri 28 Oct 13:38
By: Rick Johnston, Net 229 Echo Coordinator (HST *
Original to: Luke Kolin (1:250/714)

RE:
The Appeal submitted by Matthew Stein, with respect
to the ruling issued by James Korolas (N250C) in the matter
of the Policy Complaint filed by Matthew Stein against Luke
Kolin

Basis of the Complaint:

In Mr. Stein's complaint, his major point is that
Mr. Kolin has proven himself a "menace" to FidoNet by his
actions in submitting a nodelist segment for Net 250 while
he was not in the office of Net Coordinator.

Mr. Stein has mentioned other incidents as well,
however they do not pertain to the matter at hand.

Supporting Documentation to the Complaint:

Mr. Stein has included samples from the log files of
FidoNews 11-49 Page: 15 05 Dec 1994

both Mr. Kolin, and of the RC to whom the nodelist segment
was delivered. The nodelist segments from the Regional
Coordinator clearly show Mr. Kolin's system in a connection,
presenting the 1:250/0 address as an AKA, and delivering a
file named the same as the Net 250 nodelist segment at the
time.

An examination of Mr. Kolin's logs for the same time
period do not show this connection, nor any actions that
would cause the nodelist segment to be generated or
delivered. However, further examination of the logs
supplied by Mr. Kolin to Mr. Stein, who was the nodelisted
Coordinator of Net 250 at the time, show an inconsistency in
that one of the logs has record of activities taking place
after the date and time stamp on the file itself. Based on
this, it seems obvious to me that this log file has been
edited. Given that one of the three files submitted by Mr.
Kolin has been blatantly tampered with, I feel that it is
reasonable to conclude that none of the three files can be
taken at face value, and so should be discarded.

Additionally, anyone familiar with the workings of
the nodelist processing/generating program MakeNL will know
that MakeNL will only submit a nodelist segment when changes
have been made to the control and/or input files. Thus I
will grant the possibility that this may have been an
automatic event that Mr. Kolin accidentally left in his
system batch files. However, given that a nodelist segment
was submitted, this shows that Mr. Kolin willfully edited
the control and/or input files he had on hand for the Net
250 nodelist segment and caused a submission to be created.

In his ruling, Mr. Korolas stated that he would
equally blame the RC for failing to establish a session
password. However, at the time Mr. Korolas was "Co-Acting
NC" of Net 250, using a nodelist address of 1:250/1.
Included in his duties was the maintenance of the nodelist
segment for the net. Although there wasn't a session
password in place for Mr. Korolas at the time, this would
not have prevented Mr. Kolin from submitting his segment as
the addresses used are not the same and the password would
not have prevented Mr. Kolin from connecting and delivering
his segment.

Documentation for the Defence of Mr. Kolin:

Upon receipt of Mr. Stein's request for an appeal in
this Complaint, I immediately forwarded a netmail message to
Mr. Korolas, with copies to both Mr. Stein and Mr. Kolin,
requesting all information that he had received from the two
parties to this Complaint. This message was sent to him on
September 30th and his reply, dated for October 2nd, stated
that he would not forward this information until he had
received Mr. Stein's grounds for appeal.

FidoNews 11-49 Page: 16 05 Dec 1994

To quote briefly from FidoNet Policy:

- - - - begin quote - - - -
9.5 Appeal Process

A decision made by a coordinator may be appealed to the next
level. Appeals must be made within two weeks of the decision
which is being appealed. All appeals must follow the chain
of command; if levels are skipped the appeal will be
dismissed out of hand.

An appeal will not result in a full investigation, but will
be based upon the documentation supplied by the parties at
the lower level. For example, an appeal of a Network
Coordinator's decision will be decided by the Regional
Coordinator based upon information provided by the
coordinator and the sysop involved; the Regional Coordinator
is not expected to make an independent attempt to gather
information.

- - - - end quote - - - -

Under Policy, Mr. Korolas is required to forward any
information he had pertaining to the Complaint in question.
On October 10th, I spoke to Mr. Kolin in a telephone call
and advised him that Mr. Korolas had still not supplied the
requested information, despite an additional reminder (also
CC'd to Mr. Kolin and Mr. Stein) sent to him on October 3rd.
At that time, I requested that Mr. Kolin forward a copy of
what he had submitted to Mr. Korolas in his defence to be
forwarded to me before the following weekend (October 15th)
so that I might proceed with a ruling. I finally received a
message from Mr. Kolin on the Sunday evening, which
perported to be a copy of what had been submitted to Mr.
Korolas. Although this may not be pertinent to the
complaint process, it is my opinion that this "statement"
was created by Mr. Kolin expressly for my benefit and that
the real reason that Mr. Korolas did not forward the
requested information was because he did not have anything
to forward. This is partly based on Mr. Korolas's continued
refusal to cooperate with my request despite the requirement
in Policy that he do so, and partly on a statement made by
Mr. Kolin in the 'copy' he forwarded to me, namely "However,
I have not been provided with this information, and
therefore have been unable to prepare a suitable defense.",
given that both Mr. Korolas and Mr. Kolin repeatedly
demanded to know Mr. Stein's 'grounds for appeal' prior to
providing any information on Mr. Kolin's defence.

In response to some of the points in Mr. Kolin's
statement:

1) He has pointed out that he was re-admitted to Fido,
despite theknowledge of the incident of myself, as RC, Mr.
Stein, as nodelisted NC, and Mr. Korolas, nodelisted Co-NC.
FidoNews 11-49 Page: 17 05 Dec 1994

At the time, it was pointed out that proper proceedure had
not been followed in Mr. Kolin's removal from the nodelist,
in that he was denied a chance to appeal his
excommunication. His return to the nodelist was to correct
for that unjust denial of appeal opportunity, and the matter
of the nodelist submission was not considered "closed" by
that action.

2) He suggests that he cannot be 'punished' for actions
committed while he was not a member of FidoNet. In that, he
may be correct. However, he was not removed from the
nodelist until after the discovery of his false nodelist
submission. Although he did not forward his log files to
Mr. Stein until after his removal, he was still a FidoNet
member at the time of the offence, and so is responsible for
his actions.

In conclusion, based on the technical evidence
supplied, it is clear that Mr. Kolin did submit a nodelist
segment for Net 250 while not in the office of Net
Coordinator, presumably with malicious intent. As such, I
hereby reverse the ruling issued by Mr. Korolas, and rule in
the favour of Mr. Stein.

For his actions in attempting to disrupt the workings of
the Net, Mr. Luke Kolin is hereby excommunicated from
FidoNet for a period of not less that one year. If at some
point in the future Mr. Kolin should re-apply for FidoNet
membership, it will be at the descretion of the Net
Coordinator for his geographic area who will consult with,
and obtain the agreement of, the Regional Coordinator prior
to issuing him a node number. In addition, Mr. Kolin is not
to be granted any position of authority or responsibility
within FidoNet including, but not limited to, *C, *EC or
Hub.

This excommunication will become effective within
two weeks of the date of this ruling, provided there is no
appeal filed on this ruling, or after all avenues of appeal
have been exhausted.

Rick Johnston
Region 12 Coordinator
Dated: October 26, 1994
FidoNews 11-49 Page: 18 05 Dec 1994

Fidonews for the Blind
Rude? Not yet.
===============

In Fidonews 1147, Jesse Tharin of 1:300/7, is complaining about the
way Fidonews is formatted. I must be one of those six people in the
whole world that actually prints Fidonews (omigosh) on a dot matrix
printer. I prefer it this way, it's been this way forever, I am not
alone. I also made a few calls and have determined that there are a
LOT more than just six people printing out this issue right now.
Sometimes there are as many as twenty or thirty readers printing out
the Fidonews during any given week. So with that, let me get to the
point.

If Jesse wants an issue for the blind, I mean that is how he ends his
article, then I would like to invite him to create and distribute a
Fidonews issue specifically for the blind. I'm sure that since this
would be such a heart warming endeavor, the editors would have no
problem in allowing him to do this. If he really cares about this
issue, he'll quit bitching and do something about it.

I say leave the boilerplate, leave the ASCII art, and under no
circumstances should the Doggie be removed.

BTW, where can I get a copy of BOGUS?

Dash Riprock - Net 231 Amateur Gynocologist - 1:231/30

----------------------------------------------------------------------

In Consideration of Others
Article Title : In Consideration of Others
Article Date : November 29, 1994
Submitted By : Robert Byrd @ 1:221/950.0

Hello Snooze Editors!

Fine weather to you and yours. Things are just dandy up Listowel way
with only the occasional tractor trailer sliding into the side of the
building due to icy road conditions.

I noted with interest the situation brought to light by Jesse Tharin a
few issues back; that of the ungainly screen formatting of the Snooze.

I think that Mr Tharin raises a good point. For people who rely upon a
text reader, the Snooze is no doubt an exercise in exasperation. The
ASCII art and copious use of periods in the Table of Contents, the
hyphens in the Masthead and between articles only make for a situation
that must be almost unbearable for those people.

As a person who has _never_ printed an issue of the Snooze on a printer,
I personally find the the page formatting to be a blemish on the screen.
Of course, I am also the kind of person who would not start a new
article only eight lines from the bottom of the printed page.
FidoNews 11-49 Page: 19 05 Dec 1994

While I can appreciate that the Editor-beings are also Worker-beings in
their real lives, I was somewhat put off be the seemingly cavalier
attitude displayed by them in the Editorial of issue no. 47.

I think it is time that the Snooze moved forward in its life. Admit that
almost _no_ one ever prints the Snooze and implement a consistent method
of formatting for screen reading.

As a sidebar, I myself do not see ascii art as being Haiku : "the
Japanese verse form consisting of three lines of five, seven, and five
syllables respectively" (from the Gage Canadian Dictionary). While I
admit to laughing long and loud at some of the various artwork I have
come across in FidoNet, I would not consider it to be Haiku. And... I
don't think the Snooze would suffer from the lack of it.

Thank you for your time and pet the cats for me.

Respectfully,

Robert Byrd

----------------------------------------------------------------------

A chat with our resigning FidoNet Z6C, Mr. Honlin Lue
forwarded via: 6:700/703
available for FREQ: z6c_chat.zip

S: SysOp
H: Honlin

S: Honlin, thanks for coming to chat with us. It is our
great pleasure to meet you here. :-)
Umm... may we know why you want to resign from the post
of Z6C...? Too much sacrifice..? If you were given a
chance again, would you still take it up...?

H: It won't take you too much time to be the Z6C. So, no
sacrifice at all. 4 years ago, the Asian Regions,
Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan and the newly established
Japan, still belonged to Zone 3. They were in fact mature
enough to become an independent zone. However, as the
fee for inter-countries IDD call in Asian Regions was the
most expensive compared with those in Europe, USA and
Australia, the condition for developing such a kind of
IDD based BBS Network was still the poorest here.

Nevertheless, we do have our unique cultural background which
is totally different from those in USA and Europe,
although we speak English also. To let our friends in
USA and Europe understand the "face" issue (which is very
important amongst Chinese or people affected by the
Han-culture), feudal, elitist and non-democratic
thinking deeply implanted in Asians...... It cannot be
explained in a few words.
FidoNews 11-49 Page: 20 05 Dec 1994

Factors such as cultural, racial, geographical, lingual
and living habit...etc, together with our status as a
developing economy, were assuring us that we had the
condition to become an independent zone. In view of
this, I consulted the 4 RCs in the Asian Regions and got
the approval of Bill Bolton and Matt Wheal in Zone 3.
At last we had our independent Zone 6.

The reasons for establishing Zone 6: the environmental
factors were telling us that we should be independent,
and we wished we could help develop Fidonet in Asian
Regions with the establishment of Zone 6. There was
nothing to do with whether I wanted to be the ZC or not.
Therefore, if you ask me whether I want Zone 6 to be
independent if another chance is given, I still think so.
However, whether I will take up the post of Z6C, as this
was not the issue I concerned at that moment, I cannot
answer this even now.

Why resign? It has been 4 years since Zone 6 becomes
independent with my effort. Its rate of development is
the highest amongst other zones in the world. I have been
the ZC for 4 years already. I believe that a position
should not be held by a person for too long. As the ZC,
my term of service is 4 years and is the longest in Fidonet.
I should not hold this position again. Moreover, there
are many inter-countries projects in Zone 6 pending to be
implemented. I hope this can be achieved by another
friend here who has a stronger language ability.

S: What an open ZC you are! It is our luck to have you in
Fidonet. But we do feel regret about your resignation!
(Sighing...) Well... then why do you adopt democratic
election for this post? Why don't you adopt appointment?

H: Policy 4 has clearly stated: ZC is elected by RCs.

S: I see. Umm... we really hope we can have a good ZC like
you in the future. What quality do you think is
important for a good ZC...?

H: Should have a thorough understanding of Democracy and
Rule-of-Law...
And adequate language ability.

S: To be a good ZC is not easy...
Having been the Z6C for years, anything impressed you
most? Or made you regret...?

H: Yes, of course...
We had regions like Singapore, Indonesia, Hong Kong and
Macau, etc before 1988. The Network in Taiwan Region
came into being in April, 1988. It joined Zone 3 of
Fidonet on May 16, 1988. Besides, it took me more than a
FidoNews 11-49 Page: 21 05 Dec 1994

year's IDD call to Japan to deliver the program in 2400 BPS
in order to help them establish Japan Region on January
26, 1990. Zone 6 was established on November 2, 1990.
Two years after, we had applications from Philippines and
Korea.

To develop BBS in Asia, I had been to Shanghai, China
with Samson Luk (R61C) to help the BBS in China Region to
develop its network.

BBS sysops in Asians Regions had met in Taipei, Taichung,
Seoul and Tokyo successively in 5 SysOp's conferences.
All these stages are very impressive.

Umm... for the regrettable experience... I think it's my
inadequacy in English language. Also, I have been longing to
link up every Region in Asia via Internet to establish the
Z6 Backbone. But this project has not been launched
successfully yet. :-)

S: Hope this will come true one day...
Thank you very much and wish you every success in all
your future endeavour!

H: Thanks! :-)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

========================================================================
Fidonews Information
========================================================================

------- FIDONEWS MASTHEAD AND CONTACT INFORMATION ----------------

Editors: Donald Tees, Sylvia Maxwell
Editors Emeritii: Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell,
Vince Perriello, Tim Pozar
Tom Jennings
"FidoNews" BBS
FidoNet 1:1/23
BBS +1-519-570-4176, 300/1200/2400/14400/V.32bis/HST(DS)

more addresses:
Rev. Richard Visage -- 1:163/409
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voice: (519) 570-3137
FidoNews 11-49 Page: 22 05 Dec 1994

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does not diminish the rights of the authors. Opinions expressed in
these articles are those of the authors and not necessarily those of
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Authors retain copyright on individual works; otherwise FidoNews is
Copyright 1994 Sylvia Maxwell. All rights reserved. Duplication
and/or distribution permitted for noncommercial purposes only. For use
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Articles by Madam emilia may be retransmitted freely through
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OBTAINING COPIES: The most recent issue of FidoNews in electronic
form may be obtained from the FidoNews BBS via manual download or
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PRINTED COPIES may be obtained by sending SASE to the above paper-mail
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INTERNET USERS: FidoNews is available via FTP from ftp.fidonet.org,
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Anyone interested in getting a copy of the INTERNET GATEWAY FAQ may
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SUBMISSIONS: You are encouraged to submit articles for publication in
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"the pulse of the cursor is the heartbeat of fidonet"...
-- END
----------------------------------------------------------------------