F I D O N E W S -- Vol.11 No.42 (17-Oct-1994)
+----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
| A newsletter of the | ISSN 1198-4589 Published by: |
| FidoNet BBS community | "FidoNews" BBS |
| _ | +1-519-570-4176 |
| / \ | |
| /|oo \ | Small animal psychology and |
| (_| /_) | Spiritual guidance Department: |
| _`@/_ \ _ | Rev. Richard Visage 1:163/409 |
| | | \ \\ | |
| | (*) | \ )) | Editors: |
| |__U__| / \// | Donald Tees 1:221/192 |
| _//|| _\ / | Sylvia Maxwell 1:221/194 |
| (_/(_|(____/ | Tim |
| (jm) | Newspapers should have no friends. |
| | -- JOSEPH PULITZER |
+----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
| Submission address: editors 1:1/23 |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| MORE addresses: |
| |
| Don --
[email protected] |
| Sylvia --
[email protected] |
| Tim Pozar --
[email protected] |
| David Deitch -- 1:133/411.411,
[email protected] |
|
| submissions=>
[email protected] |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| For information, copyrights, article submissions, |
| obtaining copies of fidonews or the internet gateway faq |
| please refer to the end of this file. |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
========================================================================
Table of Contents
========================================================================
1. Editorial..................................................... 2
2. Articles...................................................... 2
Subject: Censorship......................................... 2
Subject: Planet Connect Censorship.......................... 4
Subject: CENSOR. KEVIN.ZIP.................................. 7
Dear Reverend Visage,....................................... 8
What is the effect of the NET700 case to the world?......... 10
SysOp's vs. 1st Time Callers................................ 12
Computers, Freedom and Privacy '95 Call for Participation... 13
Subject: Logical Deduction.................................. 17
Subject: Animals in Fido.................................... 18
Subject: Letter from Net700 to IC........................... 18
3. Fidonews Information.......................................... 20
FidoNews 11-42 Page: 2 17 Oct 1994
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Editorial
========================================================================
Planet Connect has always made me a bit nervous. Not only is
the satelite a commercial venture, but it always seemed to me
that we were putting all our eggs in one basket by using it.
The phone line method has been one of Fidonet's great strengths
.. a work-arround can always be found if one method of moving
the mail fails.
In addition, it always seemed to me that the goal,
eventually, should be an internet type of network. As the data
highway concept gains steam, Fidonet should be working towards a
fully interconnected net with close to immediate node to node
mail.
Nevertheless, the cost benefits of the satelite made it
difficult to argue against it. This week, however, we have
discovered that Plannet Connect is in the habit of censoring the
mail that passes through. That is another matter entirely.
The next few articles are about that censorship, so I will
say no more. I expect to hear a lot on this issue over the next
few weeks.
A 24 hour log of items censored is available by Freq from
this BBS as PCCON.ZIP. It is approximately 1/4 meg, compressed.
========================================================================
Articles
========================================================================
From: The Terminator (1:2805/1)
To: Editor (1:1/23)
Subject: Censorship...
Gentlemen:
Thank you for publishing my policy complaint concerning
commercial use of FidoNet. I especially enjoyed your editorial
comments. You have a brilliant future with the mainstream media
as your comments perfectly reflected the Liberal Manifesto.
Ordinarily, I would pen an appropriately Conservative response
to your Socialist prattle, however something more important has
arisen. It has come to my attention that Planet Connect has
been CENSORING FidoNet echoes. At the bottom of this message is
a copy of netmail I recently received. This is the only hard
evidence I have at the present time, although I am confident
that more is forthcoming. There have been rumours circulating
for over two weeks about this matter. If Planet Connect is
indeed CENSORING FidoNet echomail, it must cease immediately.
CENSORSHIP is one issue where both Liberals and Conservatives
agree. According to the enclosed example, Planet Connect is
using NOBOGUS to scan for any message containing the word
"fuck." Any message containing this word causes the entire
packet to be immediately sidelined for inspection by hand.
FidoNews 11-42 Page: 3 17 Oct 1994
Planet Connect then decides whether the message is "appropriate"
before sending the packet. What gives them the right to decide
the appropriateness of echomail? How do we know if they are
ACTUALLY examining the sidetracked packets? What if they are
just deleting the packets? This is entirely possible since it
would be incredibly time consuming to examine 20,000 messages by
hand. What if they were to configure NOBOGUS to scan for the
word "Jesus?" This is CENSORSHIP, plain and simple. This is not
only a violation of FidoNet Policy 4.07, it is also
contradictory to the spirit of the First Amendment to the United
States Constitution and the Canadian Charter of Rights. I would
ask you to publish this is message in FidoNews and I would urge
you to conduct your own investigation into this matter. This is
North America, not Nazi Germany.
Sincerely yours,
Brent R. Hamm
Network Echo Coordinator
Network 2805
* Originally by John Hrusovszky, 1:238/300@fidonet
* Originally to Kevin McCarthy, 1:238/470
* Originally dated 12 Oct 1994, 23:15
Kevin...just felt I needed to inform you that Planet Connect is
sort of censoring your mail in the FLAME conference.
They are using some numskull utility called NoBogus to search
for, flag, and set aside words like "fuck", etc. They then
manually inspect the message, and then either allow it through,
or discard it.
I disagree with this policy totally, and have voiced my opinion
on it quite openly. Not being a Planet Connect SysOp, they will
now allow you to get the PCSITES echo, as that is for PC SysOps
only, bu there IS a PLANET_CONNECT echo, that everyone is
welcome in, and you are more than welcome to turn that one on if
you wish to address this problem. (There are LOTS of planet
Connect problems, and a LOT of us SysOps are going to go away to
their competition -- when one becomes available).
Anyway, just thought you should know. I take this quite
seriously that I transfer mail to and from you, as you are a
paying customer. I disagree 100% with their stupid policy on
this (and other things) and will fight for your right to post as
you see fit. If a moderator has a problem with it, let that
moderator take the issue up with you. It is NOT planet connects
duty to become our digital big brother!
FidoNews 11-42 Page: 4 17 Oct 1994
From: The Terminator (1:2805/1)
To: Editor (1:1/23)
Subject: Planet Connect Censorship
* Originally by Kevin McCarthy, 1:238/470@fidonet
* Originally to Joe Leggett, 1:238/0
* Originally dated 13 Oct 1994, 13:24
Hi Joe,
I have a friendly question, yet it is rather disturbing to
myself and others in the net.
It would seem that Planet Connect is censoring Fidonet
conferences. Specifically, they are using NoBogus to screen for
potentially offensive words in messages, and tossing them out,
at which point they are manually screening them and deciding
whether or not to forward them.
Now, I have no problem with Planet Connect doing whatever
they need to do to weed out duplicates, or echo "bricing"...but
when it comes to the content of a message destined for a
specific echo, they have NO business deciding what mail is
appropriate or not appropriate for consumption. That task is for
the moderator of said echo to decide for him or herself.
I am specifically talking about the FLAME conference, but
this is going on in other conferences as well. In the FLAME
conference, I used to receive 500+ messages per day. I am
currently receiving around 150 per day. There are users out
there posting from half-way across the country, and not making
it to my system, and vice-versa.
I wish to file a formal complaint against Planet Connect, or
the individual who would represent Planet Connect in this
matter, and I was hoping you could point me in the right
direction.
I received a netmail message from my Planet Connect feed,
John Hrusovzski, regarding this act of blatent censorship,
yesterday on 10/12/94. I am in contact with him, and have asked
him for some concrete proof (i.e. NoBogus logs, correspondence
from the PCSITES echo, other correspondences regarding this
matter) which I will present as evidence when the time comes.
I am specifically claiming that Planet Connect, or the
individual(s) who represent Planet Connect, are in violation of
FidoNet Policy Document, versoin 4.07, June 9, 1989.
Specifically:
#1. Violation of article 2.1.5 - No Alteration of Routed
Mail. Planet Connect is deliberately deleting Echomail (Routed
Mail) messages, using their own discretion, contrary to the
policy set forth in 2.1.5 of the FidoNet Policy Document, which
FidoNews 11-42 Page: 5 17 Oct 1994
states one _must_ follow the procedure outlined in 2.1.7 of said
document when not routing mail per the routing agreement.
#2. Violation of article 2.1.7 - Not Routing Mail (para.2)
Planet Connect is not returning the messages to the sender which
were found to be offensive, or the accompanying reasons for not
routing said messages. Both of these requirements are outlined
in paragraph 2 of section 2.1.7 of the Fido Policy Document.
I feel the above violations are very serious in nature, and
warrant immediate action. This is BLATANT censorship at it's
worst, and this type of activity affects us ALL, regardless of
message content. We are all paying customers of Planet Connect,
and we are paying them to perform a specific task...to deliver
(route) our mail to the intended recipient. We do NOT pay
Planet Connect to censor, monitor, or otherwise interfere with
the task of routing mail, and Planet Connect, and/or the
individual(s) who represent Planet Connect, by the undertaking
of this deed, are in blatent violation of the policies set forth
by FidoNet Coordinators, voting in the FidoNet Policy Document,
as outlined above.
As we all know, FidoNet has its OWN policies and remedies
for dealing with "excessively annoying", or otherwise
inappropriate routed mail. These too are outlined in FidoNet
Policy Document version 4.07. We know this is why we have
moderators in each and every conference in the Fido structure,
and they are the first in the chain to decide whether or not
messages are appropriate for that particualr conference.
We are also all aware of the fact that the FLAME conference
serves more than one purpose, albeit those reasons are not
always outwardly obvious. The FLAME conference provides a very
effective means to vent frustrations, in an open-forum, with
little restraint put on the participants in regards to manners,
topic, etc. The FLAME conference also serves to keep the other
more serious and demanding conferences free of just that type of
behavior. It is a well known fact that the FLAME conference is
a "no-holds-barred" echo, and that the subject matter and
mannerisms observed in this echo will no doubt be offensive to
some individuals. Simple solution...if it's offensive, don't
poll it or read it! I have a strong feeling that somewhere down
the line, this has been forgotten. The moderator of the FLAME
conference has _not_ found the mail in question to be offensive,
or unsuitable for said conference. The moderator (John Clifton)
of FLAME has, on some occasions, revoked certain individuals
rights to post in said conference.
The bottom line here is...Fido has a structured policy
document which is to be followed by all participants in said
net. This would include, of course, anyone responsible for
routing Fido echomail, including all members and representatives
of Planet Connect. Blatant violations of Fido policy are being
undertaken by Planet Connect, and this _must_ stop now.
FidoNews 11-42 Page: 6 17 Oct 1994
Planet Connect is playing a very dangerous game, one which
undermines the very roots of freedom of speech, a RIGHT which
every American citizen is entitled to, by law. PC does _not_, in
this case, stand for Politically Correct, it is nothing more
than an enterprise which exists only to make money. That money
comes from SysOps like you and me, hard earned money, money I
chose to spend to get my echomail to it's destination, _not_ for
unauthorised censorship, and _not_ for legislated morality from
Planet Connect.
We, as users, and paying subscribers, of Planet Connect,
must, and _will_, put a stop to this abhorrant behavior. We
will not be bullied by a mere routing service. Fido can
legislate itself, and always has. This is OUR network, the
users made Fido what it is today, and we as users of Fido,
including ALL of us associated with Fido, must speak out, and
assure that this unauthorized censorship, this unwanted
intrusion on OUR privacy, is stopped COMPLETELY, and stopped NOW.
This is not a simple individual complaint by one node. Think
of it as a class action suit. There are MANY out there who feel
as I do on this issue, and there will be MANY more following
suit, and voicing their opinion, presenting facts and evidence,
and filing formal complaints on behalf of this issue. I do hope
you will join us in putting a stop to this, and help give Fido
back to the people, where it belongs.
If it turns out that the Fido structure itself has "ok'd"
this type of activity, and Planet Connect is acting on the
demands of said Fido structure, then those in Fido who are
responsible for instructing Planet Connect to perform this
"service" are in violation of their own Fido Policy Document
version 4.07, June 9, 1989, and formal complaints will be filed
against the individual(s) responsible.
It is _not_ acceptable to usurp the Fido Policy Document for
any reason. This document must be voted upon, and ratified to be
legitimate, and we all know that that hasn't been done since
June 9, 1989.
Sincerely,
Kevin McCarthy
1:238/470@fidonet
FidoNews 11-42 Page: 7 17 Oct 1994
From: The Terminator (1:2805/1)
To: Editor (1:1/23)
Subject: CENSOR. KEVIN.ZIP
Gentlemen:
I have obtained a copy of Planet Connect's NOBOGUS.LOG. In ONE
24-hour period they managed to CENSOR 23 FidoNet EchoMail
Conferences. I have attached copies of their log for your
perusal. At the bottom of this message is a sample extract that
I would like published in FidoNews. Thank you very much.
Sincerely yours,
Brent Hamm
Network Echo Coordinator
Network 2805
12 Oct 04:21:32 NOBO Msg 8: found FUCK
12 Oct 04:21:32 NOBO -------------------------
12 Oct 04:21:32 NOBO Attributes:
12 Oct 04:21:32 NOBO From: Virginia Scripps at 247/800
12 Oct 04:21:32 NOBO To: All at 3615/50
12 Oct 04:21:32 NOBO Subject: four-letter words
12 Oct 04:21:32 NOBO Date: 11 Oct 94 09:48:11
12 Oct 04:21:32 NOBO -------------------------
12 Oct 04:21:32 NOBO 1:AREA:FUNNY
12 Oct 04:21:32 NOBO 2:@MSGID: 1:247/302 8f02e795
12 Oct 04:21:32 NOBO 3:The word cunt -- that word which women seem to
hate the most -- has
12 Oct 04:21:32 NOBO 4:a fascinating heritage. I like to think, as
Chaucer did, that it
12 Oct 04:21:32 NOBO ...
12 Oct 04:21:32 NOBO 66:
12 Oct 04:21:32 NOBO 67: * Origin: -=[Community Access]-= 905-732-0770 USR
Sportster 28800 (1:247/302)
12 Oct 04:21:32 NOBO 68:SEEN-BY: 247/302 310 800 3615/50
12 Oct 04:21:32 NOBO 69:@PATH: 247/302 800
* 12 Oct 04:11:13 NOBO Msg 9: found ASSHOLE
12 Oct 04:11:13 NOBO -------------------------
12 Oct 04:11:13 NOBO Attributes:
12 Oct 04:11:13 NOBO From: Jack Brannan at 100/602
12 Oct 04:11:13 NOBO To: Tom Pardue at 3615/50
12 Oct 04:11:13 NOBO Subject: RE: MURDERING HISTORY
12 Oct 04:11:13 NOBO Date: 10 Oct 94 19:00:11
12 Oct 04:11:13 NOBO -------------------------
12 Oct 04:11:13 NOBO 1:AREA:CIVLIB
12 Oct 04:11:13 NOBO 2:@MSGID: 1:100/
[email protected] a5145d14
12 Oct 04:11:13 NOBO 3: >> TP> Jack, when faced by the collective
intelligence of
12 Oct 04:11:13 NOBO 4: >> TP> fundamentalists such as you, I must play
them game as you
12 Oct 04:11:13 NOBO ...
12 Oct 04:11:13 NOBO 19:--- Via Silver Xpress V3.02
FidoNews 11-42 Page: 8 17 Oct 1994
12 Oct 04:11:13 NOBO 20:--- FidoPCB v1.4 [ff275/a]
12 Oct 04:11:13 NOBO 21: * Origin: Invest Quest, St Louis,Mo 314-644-6747
(1:100/255)
12 Oct 04:11:13 NOBO 22:SEEN-BY: 100/255 602 650 1000/7086 1314/4 2701/2
3615/50 7080/6
12 Oct 04:11:13 NOBO 23:@PATH: 100/255 602
* 12 Oct 04:05:24 NOBO Msg 1: found FUCK
12 Oct 04:05:24 NOBO -------------------------
12 Oct 04:05:24 NOBO Attributes:
12 Oct 04:05:24 NOBO From: Pat Chapman at 387/31
12 Oct 04:05:24 NOBO To: Dennis James at 3615/50
12 Oct 04:05:24 NOBO Subject: Re: female genital mutil
12 Oct 04:05:24 NOBO Date: 10 Oct 94 08:27:00
12 Oct 04:05:24 NOBO -------------------------
12 Oct 04:05:24 NOBO 1:AREA:FEMINISM
12 Oct 04:05:24 NOBO 2:@MSGID: 1:387/57.0 2e993314
12 Oct 04:05:24 NOBO 3: -=> Quoting Dennis James to Pat Chapman <=-
12 Oct 04:05:24 NOBO 4:
12 Oct 04:05:24 NOBO ...
12 Oct 04:05:24 NOBO 25:
12 Oct 04:05:24 NOBO 26:--- Maximus 2.01wb
12 Oct 04:05:24 NOBO 27: * Origin: Avalon: San Antonio's Pagan BBS (210)
308-9579 (1:387/57)
12 Oct 04:05:24 NOBO 28:SEEN-BY: 387/31 32 57 590 697 800 3615/50
12 Oct 04:05:24 NOBO 29:@PATH: 387/57 31
* 12 Oct 04:07:39 NOBO Msg 13: found FUCK
12 Oct 04:07:39 NOBO -------------------------
12 Oct 04:07:39 NOBO Attributes:
12 Oct 04:07:39 NOBO From: Michael Pilon at 243/23
12 Oct 04:07:39 NOBO To: Guy Murphy at 3615/50
12 Oct 04:07:39 NOBO Subject: CITING SOURCES - 2/2
12 Oct 04:07:39 NOBO Date: 11 Oct 94 17:44:12
12 Oct 04:07:39 NOBO -------------------------
12 Oct 04:07:39 NOBO 1:AREA:DEBATE
12 Oct 04:07:39 NOBO 2:@MSGID: 1:243/23.0 e9b1ff5c
12 Oct 04:07:39 NOBO 3: -=> Quoting Guy Murphy to Lester Garrett <=-
12 Oct 04:07:39 NOBO 4:
12 Oct 04:07:39 NOBO ...
12 Oct 04:07:39 NOBO 13:
12 Oct 04:07:39 NOBO 14:--- FLAME v1.1
12 Oct 04:07:39 NOBO 15: * Origin: CHANNEL-23
*FidoNet*internet*IGA_Net*ARNet* 613-830-5391 (1:243/23)
12 Oct 04:07:39 NOBO 16:SEEN-BY: 243/22 23 24 37 3615/50
12 Oct 04:07:39 NOBO 17:@PATH: 243/23
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Editor-Beings Prelude: While holding his nose, Charles
Herriot (1:163/110) submits the latest missive from Doc
Logger which was delivered by courier wrapped around a large
quantity of polar bear livers. In a postscript, Logger
suggests that the inclusions are to be used in some form of
ritual involving Fidogods. Roll da flic, Sylvia....
Uncle Bill's Home for Wayward TonTon Macoutes,
FidoNews 11-42 Page: 9 17 Oct 1994
Armalite, Argentina
S0D 0RF
Dear Reverend Visage,
I was dismayed that you had ventured to one of the more
dangerous parts of the world. While Mr. Bill was sending
thousands of troops to correct traffic patterns in Haiti,
more people died of gunshot wounds in downtown Washington,
D.C. than had died of unnatural causes in the preceding two
months of ugliness in Port Au Prince. You have to admire the
priorities at work and the Excited States must be positively
drooling at the prospect of helping Iraq locate the border
markers in Kuwait.
I was further dismayed to read in the paper that Prince
Charles had sixteen badgers shot on one of his estates. It
seems that he was worried that they would somehow pass on TB
to his cattle, but the *real* reason must have something to
do with the fact that they were poised to write a salacious
kiss-n-tell story involving Princess Di. You can't trust
badgers, Visage, as I've mentioned on more than a few
occasions and its a darned fine thing to see our future
monarch doing something other than expressing a desire to
live in the trousers of his paramours.
Ms. Labamba was positively gushing when she mentioned that
the large crate of inflatable Hillary Clinton dolls had
arrived from Rick Arnold at Rune's Rag (1:2601/522). Dooya
think that if I mentioned Rune's Rag ( a fine electronic
publication, available from 1:2601/522) that Rick would send
the batteries that appear to be missing from the
aforementioned shipment?
I hesitate to mention Net250 after you had me followed by
trained marksmen armed with Thorazine tipped blowguns, but
it appears that our beloved but non-sentient RC, Rick "Bury
The Rest of Me At Wounded Knee" Johnston, is about to embark
on another act of abject idiocy. It seems that he is about
to overrule a policy complaint that was filed and rejected
by the NC250. The complaint itself, was so profoundly
childish and snivelling that it wouldn't have been taken
seriously by a kindergarten teacher, but Rick "The Night of
The Living Unread" Johnston has applied his keen
jurisprudent mind to the issue. Look for flaming nodenumbers
on the Northern horizon as this saga sinks deeper into the
slimepit.
I understand now, why you were unable to locate the ZC, Bob
Satti (cue the plague of frogs), in your rambling through
Canada's west. Apparently, Mr. Satti (sacrificing another
hamster in deference to the Fidogods) has opined that he
will see Nets 163 & 243 force marched to the altar before
his term expires. Mercifully, he has also stated that he
cannot turn his attention to the divorced Ottawa nets until
FidoNews 11-42 Page: 10 17 Oct 1994
the range warfare in Region 13 is subdued. Might I suggest,
as a measure of the kind of deep concern that we feel
towards these things, that we air freight our four hundred
pound Samoan attorney to Region 13 so that their squabbles
are prolonged long enough to outlast Mr. Satti's (cue the
flood) tenure?
On almost the same issue, I note that in the Z1-Election
echo, various Fidogods keep citing PeeFour as some sort of
Divine Doctrine. It would be unsurpassing rude of me, I
suppose, to point out that PeeFour was never ratified, never
voted upon, and has all the authority of Cheese Whiz. The
fact that PeeFour entrenches the incestuous clubbiness of
Fidogods is reason enough to place the document in a
position where the sun doesn't shine and someday the
elflords who keep invoking it will learn that the sysop
peasantry don't need to be "controlled." The Z1_Election
denizens are debating whether the secular state of
*EC-beings can create their own policy nightmare. They miss
the point entirely, in that the more rules they create, the
more Fidocriminals they will engender.
I must go Visage, your secretary has the kind of bovine
gleam in her eye that Rudolph must have had the day he met
Bambi, and I have no desire to father any children whose
noses glow red in the dark. As a good and decent gesture, I
suggest that we send her to the White House where she can
become one of Mr. Bill's UnderSecretaries. Her distemper has
nothing at all to do with the fact that the Snooz editors
refused to honour your expense tab from Washington for the
services of "St. Brigitte's All Nude Girl's Tuba Marching
Band." I think it was the tubas, Visage, because Don Tees
was heard to mutter something about the value of "art."
Regards,
Doc Logger,
3rd Baseman In The Rye,
Holden Caulfield School of Fencing,
Shuckmagosh, Ohio
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What is the effect of the NET700 case to the world?
Your right to international communication is at stake.
-----------------------------------------------------
What is the NET700 case? Owing to personal feud between the RC and
the NC, the NC was suddenly fired with reasons that the majority of
sysops did not accept. A new NC was appointed by the RC and a
cleansing exercise started. New NC demanded all sysops to apply for
Fidonet membership again, or else be kicked out. The reason: he needs
to know the information of all nodes. This is a very bad excuse as
the information of all nodes is already in the NET700 nodelist which
has been in use for many years satisfactorily.
FidoNews 11-42 Page: 11 17 Oct 1994
The present status is that all sysops (about 600) continue to use the
existing nodelist and happily communicating with each other under the
Fidonet Hong Kong. Only a few (about 30) responded to the new NC, but
they still keep the existing nodelist and also happily communicating
with all fidonet sysops in Hong Kong.
Here comes the ugly abuse of authority. The NC just fielded the 30
odds nodes to the international nodelist. So the world now sees a
shrunken Hong Kong net from a prosperous and busy network to a tiny
and quiet place of 30 nodes. You may know that Hong Kong is a tiny
island in size but a giant in economy and hi-tech communication. How
come the 600 sysops who devoted time and money to telecommunication
suddenly all committed a fatal crime and were ex-communicated from the
world renowned network?
Something is definitely wrong.
The nucleus of the event is in the RC of Region 61 who brought his
personal feud to the world. New NC is his front (probably aka RC).
ZC is also stupid enough to be caught in the event without seeing the
consequence.
Hong Kong sysops are furious. Complaints are being made to ZC and IC.
There are also legal actions being planned to sue the NC. This naive
guy thinks he can't go to jail for this and claims to be a hero, being
a beloved subordinate of a powerful RC and has the power to stand up
again 600 others. He doesn't realise that the civil action against
him may cost him millions of dollars in the end.
As it now stands, NET700 is running smoothly locally. The only
damaging thing the NC/RC/ZC have done is the abuse of their authority
in manipulating the international nodelist. The IC has to do
something to maintain the integrity of this important document which
is used by the world.
In the meantime, your right to international communication is in
stake. Remember when you want to join the wonderful Fidonet to reach
the world. Now because of improper management, this Fidonet is in the
danger of falling apart. You can see that a main chunk of Hong Kong
has been lost. This wonderful city of 600 nodes is largely out of
reach to you now. Is there a way to curd this kind of irresponible
behaviour of the appointed personnels? Is the information super
highway really in need of regulating. Fidonet is a fine example of a
well orgainsed network of amateurs. But this things really put people
off and make them turn elsewhere.
Meanwhile, guys in Hong Kong are still striving to save the net.
Demands are being made to the IC for the reinstatment of all Net700
nodes. Whether Fidonet can be healthy again is now in his hand.
Raymond Poon
(6:700/7 ex-communicated?)
FidoNews 11-42 Page: 12 17 Oct 1994
SysOp's vs. 1st Time Callers
by Chris Cancilla, (1:375/64)
SysOp Patients vs. 1st Time Users
All of us, as SysOp's of an established BBS, have run across a
user that logged on to our BBS for the first time. But as we watch
that user stumble through the menu's, trip over most of the options,
and fall flat on their face with a "CONNECTION TERMINATED" report, we
wonder what is going on.
I, for one, enjoy teaching a new user the "ropes". The other
evening I had a user call my system three times. All three times it
ended in a dropped carrier. The fourth time I was getting very upset.
I broke in with chat mode and asked what was going on. He answered
something I was not prepared for. He told me that mine was the first
BBS he ever logged on to, and the first time he has ever used a modem.
After I asked him kindly to turn off his CAPS LOCK key, and to
press >ENTER< twice after he finishes typing, we got some training
accomplished. I showed him how to download a better terminal program
(TELIX 3.22) than he was using; the terminal he received with his
modem. I explained what Zmodem was, compared to the rest of the
protocols. I showed him what he needed to know to make the experience
enjoyable.
After we did all this he told me that he was not alone. His Mom
and Dad were sitting there with him. At first they were all getting
real frustrated and ready to unplug the computer from the wall. Then
I broke in and talked kindly to them. Later his father and I spoke
voice. A fairly intelligent man who knows enough about computers to
realize he needs to learn more.
The father also let me in on a secret; if I had not broke in and
assisted them, they were going to not use the modem. But, with my
help, they have a very good attitude towards BBS's, SysOp's, modeming,
and computers in general. They managed to get the file they wanted
all along, a Star Trek text file. I had to call them back voice and
get them to call back the BBS again. They needed a way to un-ARJ
the file.
Although the family was sitting around the computer and learning
together, it could have led to a lot of stress. Me, spending a small
amount of time assisting and teaching them made it an enjoyable
experience.
If more SysOp's would look at it in that respect, rather than as
"OH GOD....a virgin user!" and ignore them, more people would be
better taught on BBSing and user's attitudes would be more positive
towards the System Operators.
Chris Cancilla
FidoNews 11-42 Page: 13 17 Oct 1994
1:375/64 FidoNet
87:6002/7014 TrekNet
244:300/2 AgapeNet
--==>> CHRIS <<==--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From tdkcs!hookup!wps.com!tomj
The Little Garden, a San Francisco Bay Area Internetwork
Computers, Freedom and Privacy '95 Call for Participation
Call for Participation - CFP'95
The Fifth Conference on Computers, Freedom and Privacy
Sponsored by the ACM SIGCOMM, SIGCAS, SIGSAC and Stanford Law School
28 - 31 March 1995
San Francisco Airport Marriott Hotel, Burlingame, California
INVITATION
This is an invitation to submit session and topic proposals for
inclusion in the program of the Fifth Conference on Computers, Freedom
and Privacy. Proposals may be for individual talks, panel discussions,
debates, or other presentations in appropriate formats. Proposed topics
should be within the general scope of the conference, as outlined below.
SCOPE
The advance of computer and telecommunications technologies holds great
promise for individuals and society. From convenience for consumers and
efficiency in commerce to improved public health and safety and
increased participation in democratic institutions, these technologies
can fundamentally transform our lives. New computer and
telecommunications technologies are bringing new meanings to our
freedoms to speak, associate, be left alone, learn, and exercise
political power.
At the same time these technologies pose threats to the ideals of a
just, free, and open society. Personal privacy is increasingly at risk
from invasion by high-tech surveillance and eavesdropping. The myriad
databases containing personal information maintained in the public and
private sectors expose private life to constant scrutiny. Political,
social, and economic fairness may hinge on ensuring equal access to
these technologies, but how, at what cost, and who will pay?
Technological advances also enable new forms of illegal activity, posing
new problems for legal and law enforcement officials and challenging the
very definitions of crime and civil liberties. But technologies used to
combat these crimes can threaten the traditional barriers between the
individual and the state.
Even such fundamental notions as speech, assembly and property are being
transformed by these technologies, throwing into question the basic
Constitutional protections that have guarded them. Similarly,
information knows no borders; as the scope of economies becomes global
and as networked communities transcend international boundaries, ways
FidoNews 11-42 Page: 14 17 Oct 1994
must be found to reconcile competing political, social, and economic
interests in the digital domain.
The Fifth Conference on Computers, Freedom and Privacy will assemble
experts, advocates and interested people from a broad spectrum of
disciplines and backgrounds in a balanced public forum to explore and
better understand how computer and telecommunications technologies are
affecting freedom and privacy in society. Participants will include
people from the fields of computer science, law, business, research,
information, library science, health, public policy, government, law
enforcement, public advocacy, and many others.
Topics covered in previous CFP conferences include:
Personal Information and Privacy
Access to Government Information
Computers in the Workplace
Electronic Speech, Press and Assembly
Governance of Cyberspace
Role of Libraries on the Information Superhighway
Law Enforcement and Civil Liberties
Privacy and Cryptography
Free Speech and the Public Communications Network
We are also actively seeking proposals with respect to other possible
topics on the general subject of computers, freedom and privacy. Some
new topics we are considering include:
Telecommuting: Liberation or Exploitation?
Courtesy, and the Freedom to be Obnoxious
Commercial Life on the Net
How Does the Net Threaten Government Power?
Universal Access to Network Services
The Meaning of Freedom in the Computer Age
Online Interaction and Communities
Government-Mandated Databases
PROPOSAL SUBMISSION
All proposals should be accompanied by a position statement of at least
one page, describing the proposed topic. Proposals for panel
discussions, debates and other multi-person presentations should include
a list of proposed participants and session chair. Proposals should be
sent to:
CFP'95 Proposals
Stanford Law and Technology Policy Center
Stanford Law School
Stanford, California 94305-8610
or by email to:
[email protected]
with the word "Proposal" in the subject line. Proposals should be
submitted as soon as possible to allow thorough consideration for
FidoNews 11-42 Page: 15 17 Oct 1994
inclusion in the formal program. The deadline for submissions is
1 November 1994.
STUDENT PAPER COMPETITION
Full time students are invited to enter the student paper competition.
Winners will receive a scholarship to attend the conference and present
their papers. Papers should not exceed 2,500 words and should examine
how computer and telecommunications technologies are affecting freedom
and privacy in society. All papers should be submitted to Professor
Gary T. Marx by 20 November 1994. Authors may submit their papers either by
sending them as straight text via email to:
[email protected]
or by sending six printed copies to:
Professor Gary T. Marx
University of Colorado
Campus Box 327
Boulder, Colorado 80309-0327
(303) 492-1697
Submitters should include the name of their institution, degree program,
and a signed statement affirming that they are a full-time student at
their institution and that the paper is an original, unpublished work of
their own.
INFORMATION
For more information on the CFP'95 program and advance registration, as
it becomes available, write to:
CFP'95 Information
Stanford Law and Technology Policy Center
Stanford Law School
Stanford, California 94305-8610
or send email to:
[email protected]
with the word "Information" in the subject line.
THE ORGANIZERS
General Chair
--------------
Carey Heckman
Stanford Law School
Stanford Law & Technology Policy Center
Stanford, CA 94305-8610
415-725-7788 (voice)
415-725-1861 (fax)
[email protected]
To discuss potential CFP'95 speakers, topics, and formats, and to receive
FidoNews 11-42 Page: 16 17 Oct 1994
additional CFP'95 information, subscribe to the CFP95 list. Send to
[email protected] a plain text message consisting of subscribe cfp95.
Program Committee
---------------------
Sheri Alpert
Internal Revenue Service
Judi Clark
ManyMedia
Kaye Caldwell
Software Industry Coalition
Esther Dyson
EDventure Holdings
Mike Godwin
Electronic Frontier Foundation
Peter Harter
National Public Telecomputing Network
Lance J. Hoffman
George Washington University
Ellen Kirsh
America OnLine
Bruce R. Koball
Motion West
Gary T. Marx
University of Colorado
Mitch Ratcliffe
Digital Media
Marc Rotenberg
Electronic Privacy Information Center
Deborah Runkle
American Association for the Advancement of Science
Barbara Simons
USACM
Ross Stapleton-Gray
Georgetown University
Glenn Tenney
Fantasia Systems
Jeff Ubois
Author and Consultant
FidoNews 11-42 Page: 17 17 Oct 1994
J. Kent Walker, Jr.
U.S. Department of Justice
Affiliations are listed for identification.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Vern Faulkner (1:340/44)
To: Editors (1:221/192)
Subject: Logical Deduction
I looked at my BBS history a few days back. I realized I'd
been in this hobby (hobby? You mean, people are supposed to BBS
and FIDOnet for.. fun? Oh dear.) for quite some time. Normally,
I'd try and steer myself away from all the political hoo-hah
that happens, especially the stuff that gets draped over the
near-dead corpse of the FIDOnews. However, Mr. Hamm's fine
diatrabes in the last issue really caught my eye. Not being one
without an opinion, I expressed it. Then, having so expressed, I
bit my lip, and wrote it all down for you people. Please - do
try to remember this is a hobby net... Anyhoo.. here's my
thoughts on this whole kerfuffle...
1) Since when did a tax deduction automatically indicate
commercial use? I know that I have been, in the past, able
to write off some of the rent on my home in my personal
taxes. Does this mean, that *in my jurisdiction*, I was
running a business in my home? I don't think so.
2) There is nothing to prevent systems of a commercial nature,
ie: pay bbs systems, from using FIDOnet as part of the
package presented to users.
3) IF a system is running in a commercial environment, ie: they
are a pay BBS, or operated on commercial premises, they may
well be required to (a) register software as commercial, and
(b) pay business rates on their telephone lines. In the
event of (a) and (b) above, then very certainly, the costs
accumulated on the telephone are tax-deductable in the
course of business. In no way does this make the amateur
network of FIDO subject to commercial influence - if so,
then take a look at the vast number of commercial systems
out there! I can think of at least two in my net alone. What
they do behind their mailers is their business... not mine,
nor FIDO's either.
4) If Mr. Terminator (sigh) claims that the ANTI_VIRUS echo is a
walking ad for a commercial product, may I turn you to the
Remote Access support echo, the proboard support echo, the
front-door support echo, the pkware support echo - in short,
having an echo devoted entirely to the use and maintenance
of one commercial/shareware product does not, in my mind
constitute commercial operation. It constitutes a support
echo for any of the myriad programs out there.
FidoNews 11-42 Page: 18 17 Oct 1994
5) I'd like to remind Mr. Hamm that he is likely using
commercial software at some stage of his BBS operation, be
it MS-DOS, 4DOS, OS/2, Unix, or Windows. Does that mean, by
merely mentioning what operating system someone uses in a
message, they are supporting that Operating System and ergo,
blatantly commercial? I think not - otherwise the next
nodelist will have about sixteen entries in it, worldwide.
Vern Faulkner, Fox and Dragon Inn, Victoria, B.C.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Den Whitton (3:623/632)
To: Madam Emilia (1:221/192)
Subject: Animals in Fido
Dear Madam,
In addition to the animals mentioned in your survey I count 5
Aardvarks and 10 entire zoos.
Cheers
Den
Sysop, The Zoo BBS
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Roger Nie (6:700/200)
To: Editor (1:1/23)
Subject: Letter from Net700 to IC.
Hello George,
As you should know about the case of Net700, and I want to
condemn my Zone Co-ordinator about this case as he was
acknowledged and support the wrong decision of R61C and the new
appointed Net700C.
As I believe, the re-engineering process should be, provide a
take over process from the former NC to him, and there should be
nothing changed to the lower level. But the new appointed NC,
failed to take-over the job from the former NC, and try to
remove all nodes in order to get the information from us. After
a meeting of NET700, we confirmed that we deeply condemn our
Coordinators use this dirty tricks to win his power.
And for this case, we tried to send netmail to our Z6C, Honlin
Lue, but he refused all netmail which was written in English,
and willing to answer all the complain in Chinese in the Chinese
echomail. He is trying to escape the official language in
FidoNET in order to bend on the RC/NC.
Please take a look on the following translation from his mail,
FidoNews 11-42 Page: 19 17 Oct 1994
Date : Sep 27 '94, 01:04
From : Honlin Lue 6:720/303.0
To : Hilary Luk
Subj : about net-rule of Fido.
In a message of <Sep 25 19:36>, Hilary Luk
(6:700/
[email protected]) writes: HL> You said you would support
the RC you appointed, even if he made mistake.
If he made mistake, I will ask him to correct, and will forgive
him.
Date : Sep 29 '94, 02:52
From : Honlin Lue 6:720/303.0
To : Goodwin Yuen
Subj : China
In a message of <Sep 28 13:29>, Goodwin Yuen
(6:700/
[email protected]) writes: GY>Neither of any post,
Policy4 haven't give him power to dissolve and GY>rebuild the
whole network�I GY>(He can only remove those nodes which were
downed above 2 weeks.)
This is correct. Policy4 does not give NC any power. If it
affects your right, you don't have to accept it.
But Policy4 said out-going NC will provide information of nodes
to the new NC. If the new NC delete any node because he does
not have sufficient information, this is understandable.
We only communicate through e-mail. If the identity cannot be
confirmed, we can't be sure who is the writer of the mail.
An extreme situation is when a person is NC and he made a number
of false nodes. Or a few dozens phoney BBS. Although the
telephone numbers in the nodelist is real, who can ascertain
that the sysop of the BBS is real.
NC not just can delete nodes which have been down for two weeks.
He can also delete BBS who made false nodelist or do not use the
latest nodelist.
As I know, Policy4 request us to use the update nodelist. But
our ZC said that if we don't use the update nodelist, our node
can be removed. It is true that we have responsibilty to use the
update nodelist. But not forced us to use the latest otherwise
our node will be removed. And ALL the NET700 nodes in the
nodelist were real and offical. ZC cannot doubt about the
nodelist's reality.
Also when his RC made a mistake, he will forgive him, but when
nodes at his lower level made a mistake, he will dismiss him. It
is obviously to see that our ZC is fully protect his appointed
staffs either he is doing something wrong, like dismiss ALL
nodes in NET700.
FidoNews 11-42 Page: 20 17 Oct 1994
I think you also agree that we, operating a BBS, is basically
for interest. But now our Co-ordinators treat this as a game for
politics and power. We hate this intention and condemn all
levels of our Co-ordinators.
Besides for NET700, all the product support site, which was
based on NET700 was also removed from the Zone list. Like mine
6:6/108 and 6:6/109, the Asia support site for QuickBBS and
ALLfix. I fully believe that the Z6C/R61C/N700C parties has an
intention to remove all HONG KONG FidoNET nodes neither it is
NET700 or not, and then accept those who will not oppose, or
support their dictatorship management, back to the nodelist.
I fully hope that you can leave us a mail, at least we can see
your decision in NET700 very soon. You decision will safe about
600 active nodes, 300 private nodes in NET700, a network which
the size is competitive with a state in US.
Rgds
Alex Lee
6:700/126
6:700/137
6:6/108
----------------------------------------------------------------------
========================================================================
Fidonews Information
========================================================================
------- FIDONEWS MASTHEAD AND CONTACT INFORMATION ----------------
Editors: Sylvia Maxwell, Donald Tees
Editors Emeritii: Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell,
Vince Perriello, Tim Pozar
Tom Jennings
"FidoNews" BBS
FidoNet 1:1/23
BBS +1-519-570-4176, 300/1200/2400/14400/V.32bis/HST(DS)
more addresses:
Rev. Richard Visage -- 1:163/409
Don -- 1:221/192,
[email protected]
sylvia -- 1:221/194,
[email protected]
Tim --
[email protected]
(Postal Service mailing address)
FidoNews
128 Church St.
Kitchener, Ontario
Canada
N2H 2S4
FidoNews 11-42 Page: 21 17 Oct 1994
max & Don voice: (519) 570-3137
Fidonews is published weekly by and for the members of the FIDONET
INTERNATIONAL AMATEUR ELECTRONIC MAIL system. It is a compilation
of individual articles contributed by their authors or their
authorized agents. The contribution of articles to this compilation
does not diminish the rights of the authors. Opinions expressed in
these articles are those of the authors and not necessarily those of
FidoNews.
Authors retain copyright on individual works; otherwise FidoNews is
Copyright 1994 Sylvia Maxwell. All rights reserved. Duplication
and/or distribution permitted for noncommercial purposes only. For use
in other circumstances, please contact the original authors, or the eds.
OBTAINING COPIES: The most recent issue of FidoNews in electronic
form may be obtained from the FidoNews BBS via manual download or
Wazoo FileRequest, or from various sites in the FidoNet and Internet.
PRINTED COPIES may be obtained by sending SASE to the above paper-mail
address, or trade for copy of your 'zine.
INTERNET USERS: FidoNews is available via FTP from ftp.fidonet.org,
in directory ~ftp/pub/fidonet/fidonews.
Anyone interested in getting a copy of the INTERNET GATEWAY FAQ may
freq GISFAQ.ZIP from 1:133/411.0, or send an internet message to
[email protected]. No message or text or subject is
necessary. The address is a keyword that will trigger the automated
response. People wishing to send inquiries directly to David Deitch
should now mail to
[email protected] rather than the
previously listed address.
SUBMISSIONS: You are encouraged to submit articles for publication in
FidoNews. Article submission requirements are contained in the file
ARTSPEC.DOC, available from the FidoNews BBS, or Wazoo filerequestable
from 1:1/23 as file "ARTSPEC.DOC". Please read it.
"Fido", "FidoNet" and the dog-with-diskette are U.S. registered
trademarks of Tom Jennings, and are used with permission.
"the pulse of the cursor is the heartbeat of fidonet"...
-- END
----------------------------------------------------------------------
