F I D O N E W S -- Vol.11 No.26 (27-Jun-1994)

F I D O N E W S -- Vol.11 No.26 (27-Jun-1994)
+----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
| A newsletter of the | ISSN 1198-4589 |
| FidoNet BBS community | Published by: |
| _ | |
| / \ | "FidoNews" BBS |
| /|oo \ | +1-519-570-4176 1:1/23 |
| (_| /_) | |
| _`@/_ \ _ | Editors: |
| | | \ \\ | Donald Tees 1:221/192 |
| | (*) | \ )) | Sylvia Maxwell 1:221/194 |
| |__U__| / \// | Tim Pozar 1:125/555 |
| _//|| _\ / | |
| (_/(_|(____/ | |
| (jm) | Newspapers should have no friends. |
| | -- JOSEPH PULITZER |
+----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
| Submission address: editors 1:1/23 |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Internet addresses: |
| |
| Sylvia -- [email protected] |
| Donald -- [email protected] |
| Tim -- [email protected] |
| Both Don & Sylvia (submission address) |
| [email protected] |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| For information, copyrights, article submissions, |
| obtaining copies and other boring but important details, |
| please refer to the end of this file. |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
========================================================================
Table of Contents
========================================================================

1. Editorial..................................................... 2
2. Articles...................................................... 3
Cat Torture: Well deserved, too............................. 3
Endorsment of Illegal Activites?............................ 4
Publishing of Cat_torture................................... 5
US Vs. The Governmet........................................ 5
CAT_TORTURE................................................. 6
Subject: FidoNews........................................... 8
Region 13 Election Proposal Delayed......................... 8
ONE TIT..................................................... 14
Just an idea about this NodeList............................ 19
Reply to article in FidoNews 11-24.......................... 22
Nodelist.................................................... 23
Welfare Reform and Where To Discuss It...................... 25
FidoNet LAW Echo Moderator Makes News!...................... 26
ECSTASY now available from 1:163/328........................ 28
CORELDRAW now available from 1:163/328...................... 29
Wholly_Bible, To whom does it belong?....................... 29
Darling Madam EMilia........................................ 30
FidoNews 11-26 Page: 2 27 Jun 1994

1984 tee shirt.............................................. 31
3. Fidonews Information.......................................... 33
========================================================================
Editorial
========================================================================
Of all the problems in Fidonet, I think that the policy four
section on geographic areas is the biggest. While it makes sense to
organize so that as many calls as possible are local, the
insistance on such a thing makes little sense.

First of all, such an organization is going to be the norm
by the simple virtue of being the cheapest. Where it is not the
cheapest, then there is no reason for it.

Secondly, the geographic organization is used far too often
for political grandstanding and control. In the past two years
we have had major disruptions in Britain and in Germany. Both
have been excessively annoying to hundreds of sysops, and both
can be directly attributed to an elite attempting to use a
geographic rule against the wishes of a large group. The same
sort of bickering and political infighting takes place on a
smaller scale daily, all over fidonet.

I would wager that an extremely high percentage of all
policy complaints (read annoyances) are caused by sysops using
that policy section to attempt to claim control over particular
BBS's as "theirs", meaning that the sysop must join "their" net
and abide by "their" rules. It never seems to occur to the
complainers that each BBS belongs to the sysop, not to the net,
not to the RC, not to the CRP, not to anybody but the person
that runs it.

Lastly, the rule serves as a monopoly rule for poorly run
nets. I received a phone call this morning from a sysop that
has being attempting to join Fidonet for four months. The RC
of the local net has not responded for two months. Nobody else is
allowed to start a net in the area, even though there are some
twenty of them running as a private net that cannot get access
to fidonet. The net that has control of Fidonet in the area
consists of seven nodes.

Every week I hear complaints about the power of the phone
companies, and the evils of monopolies. It is about time that
we stopped doing the same thing in Fidonet.

FidoNews 11-26 Page: 3 27 Jun 1994

========================================================================
Articles
========================================================================
Cat Torture: Well deserved, too

Fredric L. Rice, The Skeptic Tank
1-818-335-9601

Michael Johnson (1:106/3323) in Fido1125.NWS has let the cat out of
the bag. Though he didn't clearly state the _reasons_ for the well
deserved distaste for -- as he puts it, "those of the feline
persuasion" -- quite simply, he wasn't authorized to do so. I, on
the other hand, aftering reporting his having made CAT_TORTURE known
publically to Control, have been granted the authority to offer some
of the "de-tails" of The Furred Alien Destroyers (FADs) among us.

They came to Earth over 4,000 years ago and began their bloody
experiments. Though Humans originally slaughtered and ate them where
ever they tried to hide, they clevery tied the planet together with
their telepathic machine network -- PURRM: People-Usurping Role
Reversal Machine. When it became established that the ancient and
ignorant humans of those times became enslaved to PURRM then openly
accepted them into their homes, they started stealing from the Earth
all of its natural resources.

Chief among their crimes is the stealing, collecting, and the
transmission of needed solar energy up to their mother ships in orbit.
Control has learned that there are currently nine such mother ships
which continue to plague humanity. The shuttle missions as yet have
been unable to place an agent on board any of the ships with any
success and NASA, along with JPL, have been keeping secret the number
of astronaught Control agents which have been boosted into orbit never
to return. What happened to them? No one knows. Oh the inhuman
monsters!

As Michael Johnson points out:

"We need to get on the backbone so that we can share
our tips and hints with all of the other cat-o-phobes
and start making this a great nation like it was
intended. People point their fingers at the liberals
and demorats and accuse them of bringing this country
down, but I happen to know that it is those darn cats."

It gets much worse. The rise of religious fascism the world around
is caused by The Furred Alien Destroyers and their evil experiments.(1)
The underlaying free-flowing stress caused by PURRM over the centuries
causes unidentifiable irritations which lead to intolerance. Only
by slaughtering all cats everywhere will Humanity ever be safe! Few
know the real reason for flouride being introduced into the world's
water supply: Control has learned that flouride acts as a powerful
conductor to Zeta-rays! The consequences of this immutable fact
should be clear: The World Health Organization is entirely controlled
by cats!
FidoNews 11-26 Page: 4 27 Jun 1994

Scientists at the Superconducting Kitty-Colliders at CERN, working
closely with Control, have managed to unlock some of the mysteries of
cat physiology. The drape and curtain shredding these fiends exhibit
is a blatant attempt to let the sun light into the house so that they
may bathe in the electromagnetic gluon flux stream. Their unholy
bodies convert these photons into hellish Zeta-rays, used to power
their hidden PURRM network and feed their mother ships.

Join CAT_TORTURE. Link in today! Help us save Earth. Help us rid
the universe of this infestation. The first 13 SysOps which link
in will comprise the newest Control cell so call 1:106/3323 now!

This is __NOT__ a joke!!! Act NOW to save yourself!!!

-=-

(1) Case in point:
"Anyone who is not a true Christian, is by default, Satanic."
- Steve Winter

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Endorsment of Illegal Activites?
Ronnie Toth (1:135/71)

� Area: 56 ��
Msg#: 4 Date: 22 Jun 94 15:10:13
From: Ronnie Toth
To: Dan Buda
Subj: Illegality question
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Hi!

DB> A friendly note pointing out the discrepancy, "may" be appropriate,
DB> but remember that the moderator is in charge of the echo and
DB> whatever they decide pretty much goes, as long as it is not illegal.

Referencing FidoNews, Vol.11, No.25, June 20, 1994, I wonder if such an
echo as described in the "Cat Torture" article which begins on page 3,
endorses illegality in FidoNet.

What do you and others say about this? Would such an echo be considered
legal? I believe there are laws on the books of every state in the U.S.
that say something about this.

If this was posted in jest, it certainly did not come across as such and
should be clarified.

Ronnie

FidoNews 11-26 Page: 5 27 Jun 1994

Publishing of Cat_torture
Dia Spriggs (1:135/68)

I must protest the publishing of Cat_Torture in the fidonews. WIth
all the echos that are good, decent and trying to do something to
improve life in any form you must advertise that something like
this actually exists?

Even in an off hand humorous fashion this is offensive and to waste
time to cater to any kind of cruelty is insane and far below any
standard I thought was trying to be upheld by Fidonet.

I wonder how funny and how much attention would I receive if I said
that I hated children and I was starting and echo on how to abuse
them...how to molest them...kidnap them...torture them....would you
find this newsworthy ? Would you find it amusing? Since the
standards for echos seems to have fallen into the pits I see no
reason for such an echo to exist. Better yet I think an echo on all
kinds of ways to torture and kill abusers of any kinds...animal or
human would be VERY appropriate. There are enough sick people in
the world without giving them ideas on how to torture and maim
little creatures.

I, for one after spending years trying to stop animal abuse in any
form and lately starting echos to help the human animals improve
their lives am appalled and highly offended that you would even
consider giving such an echo space and consideration.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

US Vs. The Governmet

RICK LITHGOW (1:2601/574)

Hey Editor

I'll tell ya something, twix the Local, State, & Federal
Governments and Al Gore's speech on the "National Communications
Infrastructure", never has the government been so ludicrous! (Well
except maybe the McCarthy era) Things are going too far with the
government trying to control everything from BBS's to the entire
computing industry! First Al Gore yap's off about the internet
(which is been around for well over a decade), and in pop's the
government trying ot promote clipper and throw poor Phil Zimmerman
in jail. (Phil is the author of PGP encryption). Scares all of
FIDO and other net's into not allowing encryption because of possible
illegal traffic. Then all the crackdown's and press on porno bbs's.
Rumor's about this and that and you'll goto jail for harrassing this
person or showing a .GIF to that person. Well now here's a goodie
from the Washington State government..

"NEW SECTION. Sec. 706(1)"
A license is required for the commercial use of virtual-reality
FidoNews 11-26 Page: 6 27 Jun 1994

technology for entertainment or purposes other than bona fide
education, training, research, and developement"

Where VR is defined as "NEW SECTION Sec. 702(4) 'Virtual Reality'
means any computer or other electronic technology that creates an
enhanced illusion of three-dimensional, real-time interactive
reality through the use of software, specialized hardware, holograms,
gloves, masks, glasses, computer gun's, or other item's inducing audio,
visual, and sensory effects of versimilitude beyond those available
with a personal computer."

The bill is being pushed by Senator Phil (I really don't squat about c
omputers) Talmadge.

What are with these loons in the government?? First they've been
trying to take away our 1st ammendment rights, then our privacy,
then talk of regulating our hobby, now they're trying to stiffle
the computer industry into stagnation. How long are we going to
take this lying down? What is it gonna take for people like you and
me to stand up to these goobs? If we don't we're going to loose
what little freedom is left in this country and it will no longer
be a democracy, it will be "He who has the most money wins". Geez
people, write your congressman, write a senator, write the
president, but do something to prevent law's like the clipper chip
becoming mandatory and programs like PGP to become outlawed, stop
the regulating of the computer communication industry, otherwise
one day you may turn on your monitor and be looking at the picture
of a federal agent because of a stupid or little known of law that
you didn't want to stand up for....

Sorry 'bout the blathering, but I wrote it in the heat of
annoyance(grin).

Regards
Rick Lithgow

* WCE 1.5/2295 * People who shouldn't breed...Next on Geraldo!...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

CAT_TORTURE
Michael Johnson (1:106/3323)

Well, since last week I have had several replies to my
solicitation for those who shared my affinity for discussing
innovative ways to make felines miserable. I have also recorded
several death threats, one offer of sexual abuse of a most unusual
sort and a most silly fool who is probably the most gullible dummy
in FIDOnet. (I'll let you decide) I suppose it is time to reveal to
those persons who express cranial density beyond Uranium235 that
CAT_TORTURE is a hoax of minor magnitude. I understand your need to
preserve your little fluffy and all of their brother and sister
felines who remain oppressed in the world today.....I even
understand the threats of violence and the death threats. In fact,
I sorta liked the death threats because they weren't the usual "I
FidoNews 11-26 Page: 7 27 Jun 1994

am gonna blow your head off" type of threats...nooooo these were
creative death threats involving kitchen utensils, sporting goods
items and one who had a decided fixation on Italian sausage.....but
this one guy was ominous and self-important, with all the trappings
of a CIA agent he barged into my bbs and said.........

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Area Netmail, Msg#99, Jun-20-94 22:24:00
From: Michael Oujesky (1:124/5117.2)
To: Michael Johnson (1:106/3323)
Subject: Fair warning

Just saw your article in FidoNews and thought I'd drop a note on
your proposed echo.

As soon as I see that is in distribution within nets 124 or 130, I
intend to persue measures against whoever necessary for supporting
cruelty to animals.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

"Supporting" cruelty to animals?

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha......

This guy should take a pill and then spike a tree.

Guess I had better turn in my guns and go on about
peacefully plowing the land and give up this nonsense of supporting
cruelty to animals. Too bad, it was an idea whose time had
come....if the response I got from you guys in PITBULL_TRAINER was
anything to gauge by. To the fellah who offered to have cats
inserted into his anus....yer on yer own guy. I'm not condemning,
just refusing to participate.

Interestingly, the only sane letter that had a modicum of
humour it it was posted by our own Sylvia, who is a definite cat
person. SYlvia, because your cat is Canadian I can see no threat to
the USA at this time if it is allowed to live....as long as you
keep it in Canada and don't allow it to stray into one of our
border towns where it might incite our cats to riot or possibly
worse.

The rest of you know who you are and you (most of you) should
be totally ashamed of yourselves. The level of netmail flaming was
terrible and honestly, I can get better flames from one test
message in internet in a well chosen group. Is FIDO going downhill?
Have we been invaded by dweebs? Are we doomed to eternal
seriousity? Have we lost our edge after all of these years?
Maybe.....maybe not

Actually, who cares?
Well, besides Oujesky.....

FidoNews 11-26 Page: 8 27 Jun 1994

Subject: FidoNews
Lee Lefler (1:280/5)

Over the years I have read quite a few articles in FidoNews.
I have browsed just about every issue that was published since I
originally joined the net in '89. There have been many good
articles; we've had our share of stupid and silly ones as well. But
the one in issue 1125 announcing a new echo called 'Cat Torture' is
just plain sick. I can understand that you don't want to censor
articles that are sent to you, but in essence by advertising this
echo you promoting animal abuse. I doubt you would think twice
about sending an ad for an echo called 'Gang Rape' to the bit
bucket, so where does FidoNews draw the line on decency?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Region 13 Election Proposal Delayed
REGION 13 COORDINATOR DELAYS ELECTION PROCEDURE PROPOSAL
By Alan Boritz - 1:2605/102

Democracy has been a long time coming to Region 13, but it looks
now that it won't be coming our way for a while. Although
elections for *C positions was a hot topic during R13C Michael
Walsh's campaign last year, and he promised to get moving on the
project, it seems that he's now gone back on his promise and won't
move the election proposal any further.

On January 12, Walsh stated in the REGION13 conference, "It got
quiet because of the holidays. You'll see the bit on elections
first, and shortly."

Then on March 14, Walsh stated, "Please review the proposal and
make any suggestions you want... I want to get this puppy off the
ground."

But now it seems that he's but this project on the "back-burner,"
as he stated on June 11, "When the time comes. I said that we'd
have one, and we will. I never said it would be at a specific
time...I'm not going to answer any more questions of this nature
here. I'm far more interested in finishing my current project
before getting into another one, and once I have, we'll get back to
it."

It seems rather convenient to delay an election proposal,
especially in light of the wide-spread dissatisfaction with Miles
Hoover's "regional echo hub" activities. And many of us in Region
13 who have been here long enough have had enough of Hoover's and
(former R13C) Bill Andrus' phony scam "elections" (the old "a vote
not received is a vote for whatever I want" routine).

Sysops in Region 13 have made their desires known, they want an
election procedure. While we've become accustomed to ignoring
Michael Walsh's "promises," especially all of the OTHER campaign
promises he hasn't kept, it's important that we continue to
FidoNews 11-26 Page: 9 27 Jun 1994

formalize the election procedure that presumably will be used to
(at least) select Walsh's successor.

For the benefit of all those who haven't been given the opportunity
of reviewing the current Region 13 election proposal, here it is,
as presented by R13C on March 18, 1994, reformatted slightly for
Fidonews:

Region 13 Election Policy Proposal Revision 1.03
February 21, 1994

Written in committee by Michael Walsh, R13C, with the assistance
and input of Phillip Dampier, Howie Ducat and Bill Fisch

Changes suggested by various members of the region and incorporated

This proposal is presented to the membership of Region 13 for
debate and modification as is deemed appropriate, and will be
balloted upon in its final form. If adopted, it will become the
first part of a region-wide operations policy.

For the purposes of balloting on this proposal, when that time
comes, a member of the region will be selected to serve as the
vote-counter. The person selected will not be a coordinator at any
level in order to ensure impartiality.

50%+1 of the ballots received will be necessary to adopt this
proposal.

--Michael Walsh, R13C

=================================================================

I. The Election Moderator

A. The moderator is appointed by the RC at the beginning of
his/her term, and must be confirmed by a vote of the NCs of
the region. Discussion on the appointment will take place
for one week in the NCRC13 echo, after which a netmail
ballot to confirm or reject the appointee is held, using the
procedure outlined later in this document. The RC will
count the votes and post the results in the NCRC13 echo, and
if 50%+1 vote in favor of the appointee, this person is
confirmed. NCs are expected to solicit the opinions of the
members of their respective networks when casting their
ballot, casting their ballot in accordance with the majority
view in their respective networks.

B. The election moderator has complete control over the
electoral process and validates all candidates' nominations,
counts all votes and announces the results. The election
moderator may appoint an assistant with the approval of all
nominated candidates at the end of the nomination process,
whose job will be to assist in counting votes.

FidoNews 11-26 Page: 10 27 Jun 1994

C. In order to easily identify the election moderator to
members of the region, s/he will receive the nodelist
designation of 1:13/2, and will be added to the segment upon
confirmation.

D. The election moderator serves in the appointed position for
the entire term of the sitting RC, but may be replaced by
the RC if needs be by this same process.

II. Election Details

A. Schedule: all schedules start at 00:01 hours and end at
24:00 hours

1. Announcement of the election: October 1st through October
7th

a. Made in the REGION13 echo by the election moderator so
that everyone in the region can participate, and in
netmail to each of the NCs in the region with
instructions to repost the announcement in their local
administrative echomail areas, or to forward it in
netmail to any nodes not receiving them. An
announcement is also made in FidoNews by the election
moderator.

b. Describes what position will be elected, whether RC or
REC

c. Is done three times in a one-week period in REGION13;
the netmail notification is done once, as is the
FidoNews announcement.

2. Declarations of Candidacy: October 8th through October
21st

a. Any member of the region may declare candidacy

b. Two weeks are allowed for such declarations

c. All declarations must be done in the REGION13 echo,
which will be used for all election-related business

d. The message header/timestamp will be used to determine
whether a declaration was received on time, but no more
than two days after the end of the declaration period.

3. Questions to the Candidates: October 22nd through
November 11th

a. The candidates will state, briefly, their platforms in
the REGION13 echomail area

b. Members of the region may question the candidates on
any issues that they may feel are important to them or
FidoNews 11-26 Page: 11 27 Jun 1994

the region

c. Debate between candidates should be limited; it is the
membership that must be answered, and the election
moderator may halt debate at any time if it is clear
that the membership is not benefiting from the debate.
This does not apply to clarification of position; i.e.,
if a candidate states a position and it isn't clear,
any other candidate may request clarification and
present their position. This is not intended to
prevent opposing points of view from being discussed,
but rather is intended to prevent the candidates from
focusing on each other and ignoring the members of the
region.

d. Three weeks are allowed for questions and answers

4. Vote: November 12th through November 18th
One week is allowed for all members of the region to vote

5. Announcement of the results: within three days of the end
of the vote, or by November 21st

6. Elections are held once every two years for each of the
RC and REC positions. The elections are staggered, such
that in one calendar year an RC election will be held,
and the next calendar year an REC election will be held.
The purpose of this is to maintain continuity in the
operation of the region.

B. Recall Elections

1. Recalls are started by a referendum, in which 20% of the
NCs of the region request the recall election; this
request for a recall must be filed with the election
moderator. In order to allow for each member of the
region to have a voice in the recall process, any NC who
receives requests from 10% of their network to recall a
*C shall make such a request for a recall election.

2. The recall election is held as a regular election would
be, with the sitting *C running as a candidate while
still in office.

3. A recall election does not upset the regular schedule of
elections; if a recall election is held, and results in
the replacement of a *C, that replacement will only serve
until the next regularly scheduled election at which time
s/he may run as a candidate if nominated.

III. Voting Procedure

A. Each nodelisted operator is entitled to one vote; if more
than one person shares responsibility for a system, and also
share a nodelist entry, then only one vote is allowed
FidoNews 11-26 Page: 12 27 Jun 1994

between them.

B. Votes are counted only when sent by netmail, and when sent
by the nodelisted operator to the election moderator. Voice
votes or proxy votes are NOT COUNTED. Votes must be
addressed to 1:13/2.

C. Votes should be sent DIRECT to avoid the possibility of
tampering, but in recognition of the fact that not all
members of the region are able/willing to make a
long-distance call to deliver their vote, it may be routed.
Votes which are routed are not guaranteed to be delivered,
and as such, no responsibility can be placed on the
person(s) who may route such mail.

D. Each vote must contain:

1. The name and node address of the operator casting the
vote,

2. The vote itself,

3. A password to be used in announcing and validating the
vote.

E. The election moderator will tally and summarize the votes,
listing each vote by password in the announcement, i.e. if
John Doe and Jane Doe are candidates, the announcement of
the results would look like this:

John Doe Jane Doe
-------------------- --------------------
Beeswax Whatchamacallit
Zaphod Zoos
Viper Kitchen
Wrangler
Hunter
-------------------- --------------------
3 votes (37.5%) 5 votes (62.5%)

A second announcement will follow this, listing in numerical
order, all node addresses from which a vote was received and
counted. These two messages will serve as the record of vote,
and by the nature of their content, will allow all members of
the region to see that their votes were counted and counted
correctly while maintaining the confidentiality of the votes.

F. A candidate must receive 50%+1 of the votes in order to be
elected. If four candidates are running, and the vote is:

A: 91 votes B: 37 votes C: 69 votes D: 12 votes

Candidates "A" and "C" will face each other in a runoff to
determine the winner of the election. A runoff election is
held between the two candidates receiving the most votes, and
FidoNews 11-26 Page: 13 27 Jun 1994

is handled as described above except:

1. One week for further questions to the remaining
candidates, not three, and

2. All results from the general election are discarded and a
new ballot is taken, with the results of the new ballot
alone being counted.

G. If the election results in a tie, the ZC will choose the RC
from the candidates.

H. The elected person will take office one week following the
announcement of the results, and in the case of the RC
election, with the approval of the ZC (in recognition of
FidoNet Policy.) The outgoing coordinator will make
available all materials necessary to ensure a smooth
transition, and will support the coordinator-elect for as
long as is possible or needed.

IV. Dispute Resolution

A. Any dispute must be filed, in netmail, to the election
moderator within the one week time frame before the electee
takes office. This dispute should be carbon-copied to at
least two other members of the region to ensure fairness and
action on the part of the election moderator.

B. The election moderator will announce the dispute, and
request a Judge of Elections be named. The Judge of
Elections will be the ZC, or if s/he is unavailable, another
region's RC or a member of the region acceptable to all of
the candidates.

C. The Judge of Elections will receive from the election
moderator all votes cast, without the summaries.

D. The Judge of Elections will recount the votes and create a
new summary which will be forwarded to the election
moderator and posted accordingly. This will be the final
count in cases of dispute.

V. Amendments to Election Policy

A. Any member of the region may propose an amendment to this
election policy, but no amendment may be proposed during an
election.

B. Such a proposal must be sent to the RC and the election
moderator. The RC will cause it to be distributed to all
NCs in the region, and direct that the NCs distribute it to
all members of the region.

C. Debate on any amendment will be held in the REGION13 echo.

FidoNews 11-26 Page: 14 27 Jun 1994

D. The process for voting on the amendment will be as follows:

1. The proposal will require 50%+1 of the votes to be
adopted

2. The votes will be counted as in a regular election, with
the results posted similarly

3. The time frame for debate is open, but voting will still
take place in one week's time

4. The election moderator will schedule the vote at least
one week in advance to allow all members of the region to
have time to consider their vote

5. The vote can be forced to occur by referendum of the NCs;
if 20% of the NCs request the vote to be scheduled, the
election moderator must schedule the vote

VI. Continuity and Successive Administrations

It is recommended to the members of the region that any
candidates who may run for the RC position be clearly asked to
abide the terms and conditions of approved regional policy, such
that no future RC may throw out policy to suit his/her whim. If
a candidate does not clearly state that they will abide the terms
and conditions of approved regional policy, you are advised that
you should cast your vote in favor of a candidate who will abide
it so that it can be maintained in perpetuity for the benefit of
the members of the region.

-##-

----------------------------------------------------------------------
POLICY 33.5 - THE FINAL INSULT
Charles Herriot (1:163/110)
(this had to be done, Doc, now where's my Ibogaine?)

1. TITLE: (amateur policymongers probably don't realize the
importance of leading off with at least one "tit"... capture
their imaginations and their hearts and minds will follow)

The title of this document shall be:

"Policy 33.5 - The Final Insult,

otherwise known as:

"Mom! Mom! He/she dissed me and I'm gonna whump his/her
sorry ass with this policy document until he/she either
apologizes or else gets locked in a room and forced to
listen to John Denver singin' 'Rocky Mountain High' until
her/his ears bleed."

2. PURPOSE: The purpose of this policy is to create more
policy. The Region has recognized quite clearly that if more
FidoNews 11-26 Page: 15 27 Jun 1994

policy were created then, incredibly, we'd have more policy.
If we had more policy, then we would definitely need even
more of it to expand upon the previously created policy.
Hell, in no time at all, this policy stuff would be breeding
on its own and provide sustenance to unemployed cod
fisherman.

3. DEFINITIONS:

AcetyleneMail: The polite staple of inter-sysop
communication which must include, at a minimum, at least one
demand that the recipient engage in an act of
self-replicating his/herself. It is entirely appropriate to
substitute the preceding with a suggestion to the recipient
that they engage in an act of procreation with anyone having
the surname: "Off."

Cod: Humiliated trout. Not to be confused with the
traditionally refrain of grunt sysops to *C-beings which
loosely paraphrases into: "Who named you Cod?"

Beer: The official sysop monetary unit. Debts can be
satisfied upon payment of these units, and *C-beings are
obligated to buy grunt sysops copious quantities of this
particular resource.

CRPs: Mistakenly identified as "Cost Recovery Plans", these
are really guileless attempts to extort money from Grunt
Sysops. The money is expended on fast women and loose cars.

Echomail: A system of distributing the latest gnarly-rad
path lines, and logoff macros, by "K00L D00DZ" which are
rivaled by Sea Slugs for their intrinsic wit. Also, any
quote of the preceding is considered "echomail" and the high
fibre content helps to improve echomail regularity.
Humungous amounts of megabytes of this stuff are
sporadically sent throughout the Region. All of this
echomail was spawned by one message which was entered in
1985 and everyone has been quoting the shit out of it ever
since.

Grunt Sysops: A strange infestation which has plagued
Fidonet for years. No one has figured out what sort of toxic
spray would be effective in eliminating them. The freshly
hatched sysop-beings, shortly before mastering the basic
skills of mailers and echomail distribution, plaster
messages all over the known universe announcing yet another
new net.. one that promises some feature so outstanding that
it probably isn't replicated in more than 500 of the
existing 600 Fidonet echomail areas.

Hubs: Dwarf-like creatures who live in tinfoil lined,
darkened caves, where their multi-node, Lan-based, 69
gazillion baud modems, poot forth echomail. Hubs are
recognizable from the fact that their plastic pocket pen
FidoNews 11-26 Page: 16 27 Jun 1994

protector mounted pagers beep whenever they receive an
inbound mail packet. Hubs secretly dream about bringing the
entire Sports Illustrated Swimsuit modeling group to gaze at
the diode arrays winking from every corner of their
kleenex-piled rooms.

NECs: Pituitary challenged Hubs who can often run a mailer
for almost a whole day without having the system crash. NECs
spend hours explaining batch files to bored and miserable
people everywhere. NECs have LAN work-stations in their
bathrooms where they do their best work.

Nets: Nets are largish containment devices used to bag
various *Cs who have run amok. These are not to be confused
with "Network" which is also herein defined.

Netwar: An exchange of pleasantries between sysops
culminating in at least a dozen threats of policy
complaints, filled diapers, and about 20 megs of brainlessly
quoted text.

Networks: Are collections of nodes who have mastered the
incredible mentation powers to remember the same sequence of
digits. Networks are loosely centred on geographic areas
within easy mortar range of each other.

Network Coordinators: (see also "Mazola & Bondage") Network
Coordinators are selfless individuals who are reluctantly
railroaded into wearing a large bullseye on their foreheads
for the amusement of grunt sysops who are bored and have
already painted the cat.

Region: The region shall encompass that area in Canada lying
to the east of the Manitoba border (unless they lower their
taxes and sell cheaper beer) and continuing past the welfare
states in the Atlantic provinces to whichever dead cod
happen to wash up on the beaches of Sable Island. The Region
shall also include the Free Republic of Quebec, but only
insofar as it does not impinge upon their God-given right to
rant endlessly about their contused and paranoid cultural
identity.

Regional Coordinators: The larval stage of Small Animal
Psychologists. These beings are to be humoured and indulged
since their are obligated to buy rounds of beer for all
sysops at social gatherings. Regional Coordinators can be
identified by the horrible sucking noises they make while
applying Vulcan lip-locks to the ZC's nether bits. After
weeks of sheep and sleep deprivation, these poor souls can
be spotted, buck naked in the moonlight, howling for more
policy.

Technical Standards: A basepoint for launching into some
sort of penis-envy type message comparing baud rates, how
many terrabytes of online GIFS can be shot through the phone
FidoNews 11-26 Page: 17 27 Jun 1994

lines, or how some moron has pissed away a small fortune on
a Pentium chip so that they can display messages at 14
million times their visual comprehension rate. I mean, let's
face it, if you happen to have cute blossooms, nobody is
going to give a damn whether your mailer works... in an
ideal world, your mail would get hand-delivered.

Users: Like, get serious wouldja? Screw 'em if they can't
take a joke.

4. Official Titles:

In this Region, a group of sick minds will choose some
relatively innocent soul and propel the poor sucker into the
job of Regional Co-ordinator. The Regional Coordinator shall
have all the powers biologically granted to bread mold, but
otherwise can be safely ignored.

The Region shall be hacked up into small fiefdoms, called
"Networks" which shall elect mascots, order pizza in bulk
quantities, and participate in the annual Node Draft to
choose the players for the upcoming Netwar season. Nets will
dragoon someone into being the Network Coordinator who will
be obliged to either undergo spontaneous human combustion
before a full term is served, or else stand for re-election
to the particular purgatory for which they are ideally
maladapted.

Network Coordinators will not be surprised to discover that
they commune directly with either God or if they want to go
right to the top; to Luke Kolin.

Network Coordinators are entitled to screech that "they need
a really big net." Judging from their post electoral
behaviour, most grunt sysops would agree with their
appraisal, and might further suggest a cell of the padded
variety as well.

Any grunt sysop who has stood in the blinding white light of
their own ego too long is entitled to pile nine or ten
listings of their own number into the nodelist and appoint
themselves as Net Coordinator. They will be entitled to
exhibit multiple-personality disorderly conduct and
pontificate about "what their net wants." Spray misting
these lost souls with regular doses of crystal-meth is
advised.

5. Elections: Anyone who actually wants a title in Fidonet
should be put in a bottle and sent out into the Japanese
current. If their lives are so incomplete without the fame
of a Fidonet title, then they should be encouraged to get
their pictures on milk cartons, but don't elect the poor
bastards because they'll inflict bad grammar on you until
you lie in a pool of drool, clutching your "I Adore My 64"
button, babbling about the good old days when men were men
FidoNews 11-26 Page: 18 27 Jun 1994

and sheep were not particular.

6. The Netwar Season: The netwar season shall commence
nanoseconds after the election of each new Regional
Coordinator. A season can be kick-started to a promising
beginning by any Regional Coordinator who campaigns on some
sort of "peace" platform. Like, nudge nudge, wink wink, we
all *deplore* the fights in hockey games, so we'll be sure
to take these kind of lame promises just as seriously.
(snicker)

(Incidentally, don't trust any candidate who quotes Arlo
Guthrie in "Alices Restaraunt" and says "I wanna kill. I
wanna kill. I mean, I wanna see blood and guts and veins in
my teeth. I wanna kill. KILL! KILL!" because these are the
kind of milquetoasts that probably brake for whales and will
screw up a perfectly good netwar season with their puerile
sniveling for calm. C'mon, fess up... you tryna tell me that
you forked out five grand for a BBS system that was just
gonna bring in the DOGTALK echo?

At the beginning of each season, grunt sysops will make
irrational decisions about who they hate at the moment, and
will bounce up and down in their cribs, asking to be picked
by their most favoured Network Coordinator. Top draft
choices will always be those sysops who are prepared to
nitpick the hell out of issue that occurred way back in the
late fifties.

Network Coordinators should not ignore the "specialty teams"
that make netwars so fascinating. Getting one of those
tight-assed weenies who quotes every obscenity that comes
down the turnpike and then appends some cloacally-challenged
moralizing, should be counted as almost as important as the
wankers who brag that they are the very first to be running
the "new" Fido Version 1.01 software. The latter can be be
guaranteed to smoke out some peckerwood who counter-brags
that he/she has been running that version for three
nanoseconds longer.... under Windows, no less.

A truly successful Netwar season can be measured by the
logarithmic expansion of new nets, and the number of
excitable, intrigue-filled, phone calls that Lesley-Dee
makes.

7. The Stirring Conclusion: Just as this policy document was
about to end. Just as Luke in his X-wing fighter was about
to drop the Neutron bomb down the exhaust shaft and put this
puppy out of it's misery. Just as the Bikersluts were about
to perform peculiar ablutions in the lap of the good Rev.
Visage. Just as your RETURN button was begging for mercy
like some spaghetti flogged, Jesse Hollington -type
combination fax machine and gratification device... just at
that moment... a rock fungus will burst it's spore pod and
some flatlined-on-the-EEG sysop will suggest that "we really
FidoNews 11-26 Page: 19 27 Jun 1994

oughta have lots more policy."

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Just an idea about this NodeList

By Jan Derk Otter - 2:282/100.20
Just an idea about this NodeList

Last week I've read through several of the latest FidoNews's. I hadn't
much time lately, so I read through quite a few of them in a few days.
The continuing story seems te be the world NodeList.

Most people complain about it's size, and they then try to point out
that what causes it to be so big is, that it contains too many
duplicate nodes, private nodes, down nodes and nodes on hold. Also
the number of flags at the end of each node-entry would be a problem,
and cause too much data.
They then suggest that the NodeList is cleaned up, so it would regain
normal proportions.

To my opinion this is not a solution at all. Even if half of the size
of the NodeList is caused by this "redundant" information, then
cleaning up the NodeList would still result in a filesize of more than
1 Meg currently. I suppose this would still be unacceptable to the
most of us, at least to them who currently complain about its size.
And even then: if FidoNet continues to grow the way it currently
grows, we're back on 2 Megs and more in a relatively short time.
So, to my opinion, removing this redundant information is not, or at
least of little value. What we really need is another concept.

Let's take a look at the "real" world (whatever that may be ;).
I'm living in The Netherlands, a small country here in Europe. Though
The Netherlands are not a big country all together, I do not have a
phonebook of the whole of The Netherlands. In fact I only have a
phonebook of my own area. And even that one is already more than
4 cm (~ 1.5 inch) thick. If I would like to have all the books with
all the phonenumbers in The Netherlands, I would be left with a stack
of books of about 1 meter (~ 3.3 feet) high. That would be a little
overdoing things, or not?

So, what if I have to call someone whose number I do not have? If the
person lives in my own area, I can look up his phonenumber in the book
I have. If the person lives in another area, I dail a central service,
give them the information they need, and I get the requested number, or
a series of numbers which could be of interest to me. If I need a
phonenumber from somebody outside The Netherlands, I dial another
central service and the same procedure takes place.
If the number I got, somehow is of importance to me, I write it down in
my personal phonedirectory.

Now let's re-think the whole NodeList-idea.
From a historic point of view, it is a logical situation where we have
come todate, concerning the NodeList. If you have a net with just a
FidoNews 11-26 Page: 20 27 Jun 1994

"few" numbers, the idea just works fine. At the size of which FidoNet
is at this moment this is already somewhat harder to pretend. At the
size of which FidoNet tends to grow at this moment, it might become
almost impossible.

Nobody is interested in having a Nodelist of 10 Meg or more, lazy
laying around on a disk, just occupying space. And every time it's
updated it takes to much time. Even on a fast computer.

So why not implement the idea of "normal" phonenumbers in the FidoNet.

Say I become a new member of the FidoNet. At that moment I get a small
file from my Boss (who-ever that may be), containing the most
important nodes-information. Of course my and his node-information is
in this file, and probably information of a few other important nodes.
If I want to send direct Netmail to a node whose information I do not
have, I just send a Netmail to an (let call it) AddressManager,
requesting information about this node. I so drop an
Address-information-request on my Boss's system, using relevant
information such as for example a nodenumber, or a name if I don't
know the nodenumber, or both parts of them if I just have parts of
them both.

The requested system (it could be my Boss's system, but of course
also might be another system) looks up the information in its own
Nodelist. If it finds relevant information, it then compiles a file
containing this information and passes that back to me. It also sends
me a Netmail saying that something was found. This latter is of cource
just for my convenience.
If the AddressManager does not find something relevant, it forwards
the request to an uplink, and returns me a Netmail saying that nothing
was found on it's own system, and that the request is forwarded to
that and that system. I then know I might have to wait a little longer
before getting an answer.

If some node-information was returned, I use a sort of NodelistManager
to update my private nodelist, eventualy removing entries that are not
of concern to me. And voila, I'm ready and have my updated
"phonebook".
If nothing returned (but "errors") I know that I probably made a
mistake and that in any case the information as I stated it, is not
available in any searched Nodelist, which of course would normaly mean
that the information is not avalable in any existing Nodelist,
including the world NodeList.

In essence we already have such a system.
If I want an Echomail-area connected, I send a request to an
AreaManager. If the requested area is not available on the
host-system, it forwards the request to it's own host (or another
possible uplink), also requesting that area (for it's own system to be
connected). If the system is or becomes connected, I become connected.
If not, I get an "error message" returned.

Now, one new problem has arisen. How to keep your personal, private
nodelist up to date?
FidoNews 11-26 Page: 21 27 Jun 1994

Well, again: how does this function in the daily life?
Say you call a friend who just bought a new telephone. You probably
won't notice this until s/he mentions. You're discussing this topic for
some time, and both sides know all of each other again. Finished.

How to implement this in the FidoLand?

As we (almost) all know, we have this fine and wonderful EMSI/IEMSI
handshake-protocol. This protocol has some fields defined, and also
allows for some EXTRA_FIELDS to be defined. One of the already
predefined EXTRA_FIELDS is the IDENT-field. This field servers as
"General identification of system that includes all information to
generate a St. Louis-format nodelist entry." (I quoted this from the
FSC-0056 specs).

I suppose it's obvious what I'm up to.

One system calls another. They both connect to each other via an IEMSI
handshake. If one of the EMSI-datafields was the IDENT-field, then the
information in this field is saved until after the session is
finished. After the session completed, the IDENT-information is
compared to the known node-information for that specific node. If the
information has altered in the meantime, the (private) nodelist is
updated.

Of course no Nodelist-files serving as files for download or
file-request, residing on the system are altered! Just the nodelist
the mailer uses to set up connections.
And of course it is important not to use any other data than the data
in the NodeList for that specific node!

In this way, what we end up with is a "few" big main systems, where
the whole, complete world NodeList resides. For example two or three
in every Region.
The somewhat smaller but still big systems contain the smaller
Nodelists. For example a Nodelist of the specific Zone.
And the smaller systems contain the smaller Nodelists, for example
just the ones from the most important Regions for the specific area.
And everybody else just "own's" its own nodelist, whatever it may
contain.

Of course, everybody who likes to do so may request a specific
complete Nodelist, even the complete world NodeList for my part. And
they may of course request to get the reguarly updates send to keep
this Nodelist up to date.
But for the most part of us, we could do with our own private
nodelist, I suppose.

This all doesn't mean that the integrity of the Nodelists is not
important. Of course it is. And there should be people taking care
of that.

Well, before this article get's even longer, I think I should make an
end somewhere here. I know this whole thought needs some re-thinking.
But of course I can and want not do that all myself. These are just
FidoNews 11-26 Page: 22 27 Jun 1994

first thoughts about how to implement a new type of
nodelist-distribution, without having to be incompatible with the past.

Just give it a thought. Think of it. Reconsider: do you really need a
complete nodelist on your system, or can you do with a list of the few
nodes you daily call? Do you have phonebooks of the whole world?
How many entries of the nodelist you have, do you really use?

Any suggestions are welcome. Don't send them to me. Send them to the
FidoNews bulletin. As I did. Or send them to a (professional)
programmer who has experience in programming for the FidoNet, and who
probably might like this and/or your idea.
Though I'm a programmer myself, I don't think I start writing software
for the FidoNet.

And, if you have anything unpleasant to tell (mail) me, please send
that to 0:0/0.0 or something equivalent. If you really dare, try to get
it published in one of the next FidoNews's.
Sorry this article got so long. I didn't plan that.

With sincerely greetings,
hoping my article may be of help to all of you,

Jan Derk Otter AKA Nozem (2:282/100.20)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Reply to article in FidoNews 11-24
Mikael St�ldal (2:201/337)

In FidoNews 11-24 there was an article, "D R A F T P R O P O S A L",
about Zone One Mail Backbone Policy. There was no name or address in
the article so I can only reply this way.

You may say that I shouldn't care since this is a policy for zone 1
and I'm in zone 2. But I think that it will affect the whole
FidoNet, why publish it in FidoNews otherwise? Many international
EchoMail areas will be covered by this, right? In that case the
whole FidoNet will be affected.

> 4.2 Message Technical Standards
> --------------------------------

> FTSC specification FTS-0001 is followed.

> Only ASCII characters are used in a message's control fields.

What does the last quoted line mean? Does "ASCII" mean only 7 bit
and "control fields" include From, To and Subject? If that is the
case, why? How should then people like me do? I have a non-ASCII
character in my name, the thrid letter in my last name is an 'a'
with a ring above. I don't want to change it to a normal 'a' as I
have done in the nodelist.

FidoNews 11-26 Page: 23 27 Jun 1994

If you specially say that only 7 bit is allowed in the header, then
it's logical to draw the conclusion that 8 bit *is* allowed in the
message body. That good, but shouldn't you specify a character set
or a method to indicate which character set is used (such as FSC-54)?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Nodelist
Doug Mclean (1:255/9)

In response to an article entitled "Insanity" by Carl Kristoffersen
(1:141/910) which appeared in FIDO1125.NWS, regarding the size of
the nodelist.

First, if Mr. Kristoffersen's nodelist is only 1.54 megs, then I
would suggest that he has either a regional nodelist, a compressed
one, or an antique one. My nodelist (nodelist.168) is 2735309 bytes
long. My nodelist compiler tells me the following about it (I'll
use some of these numbers later on):

Total Nodes Processed = 32415
Bad Nodes = 0
Unique Nodes = 32415
Nodes Down = 643
Points = 3
-------------------------------------
Zone Coordinators Listed = 7
Regional Coordinators Listed = 72
Network Coordinators Listed = 725
Hub Coordinators Listed = 1535
=====================================
Diff'ing = 0:34
Parsing = 0:19
Sorting = 0:03
Processing = 0:00
Writing = 0:22
-------------------------------------
Total time needed = 1:18

As you can see, the "real" nodelist (this week) has 643 nodes
listed as "down", almost double the number claimed by Mr.
Kristoffersen.

Mr. Kristoffersen is correct that the time it takes to compile a
nodelist could be shortened only marginally and not enough to make
any real difference (although why his nodelist compiler takes 30
min to compile a 1.5 meg nodelist is beyond me). However, if we
assume that the time required to process a nodelist is directly
proportional to it's size (not necessairly a valid assumption),
then my calculator tells me he would save about 2 min (by his
numbers), not about .12 seconds. Carl, how did you arrive at .12
seconds?

Further, he is ignoring the time it takes to recieve the nodelist
FidoNews 11-26 Page: 24 27 Jun 1994

via modem, and the space it consumes on a hard drive.

He also ignores most of the possible measures to trim the nodelist,
concentrating only on down nodes and the v32/v32b and v42/v42b
flags. There is a fair amount of excess in the nodelist that could
easily be eliminated.

Let's do some rough calculations. I wrote a small program to count
some of the things in the nodelist, and I will use the results
below. I will assume that the average node occupies 80 bytes in the
nodelist, and that the average comment line occupies 60 bytes. The
following may contain a small amount of guesswork and estimates,
but should give us a general idea of what COULD be saved. Note that
when you eliminate a flag, you eliminate one of the associated
commas, for an extra byte saving, this is why I assume that
eliminating a single (for example) V32 saves 4 bytes. Also note
that the following is not a complete list of all redundancies, but
a quick look at just some of them:

Eliminate "down" nodes: 643 * 80 bytes = 51440 bytes

Eliminate the dashes in phone numbers, 1-506-636-9117
would become 15066369117. I don't think software needs
the dashes anyway: 32415 nodes * 3 bytes = 97245 bytes

Eliminate the underscores in the BBS names AND in the
locations, the capitals for each word should suffice.
Leave them in the sysop name, software needs that
to reply correctly to messages: 32415 nodes * 2 bytes = 64830 bytes
(2 bytes/node is a very conservative estimate for both
BBS name and location taken together)

Replace CM for nodes that are 24 hour with
a flag for nodes that aren't CM (maybe
ZM for Zone Mail hour only)
24293 nodes * 3 bytes - (8122 nodes * 3 bytes) = 48513 bytes

Eliminate the last 2 chars of baud, 2400 would become
24, 9600 becomes 96 etc: 32415 nodes * 2 bytes = 64830 bytes

Eliminate the V42 and V42b flags. Who uses these
anyway???? V42 flags 612 nodes * 4 bytes = 2448 bytes
V42b flags 11928 nodes * 5 bytes = 59640 bytes

Eliminate V32 from V32/V32b pairs: 317 nodes * 4 bytes = 1268 bytes

Eliminate comment lines. Make these available in a
fido document instead for those who want them:
1055 lines * 60 bytes = 63300 bytes
--------------
Total bytes saved: = 453514 bytes

453514 / 2735309 = .1658, or over 16% of the nodelist.

And, that doesn't even include other redundancies, like
FidoNews 11-26 Page: 25 27 Jun 1994

non-standard flags, pairs involving HST flags etc. Even more space
could be saved by eliminating other redundancies that I didn't
check for, but surely must exist.

If we assumed that 80 percent of nodes maintain a full nodelist, we
can collectively save at least
453514 bytes * (.9 * 32415) nodes = 1.323 E 10 bytes or 12617.7 megs
of hard drive space worldwide.
And that number will grow as fido grows!

While the above could be implemented fairly easily (except maybe
the baud rate change), we could save even more space in the distant
future with even more radical changes. Replace MO, CM, X? etc flags
with a 16 bit hex number (represented as text 0000 - FFFF) where
each bit represents a flag. Replace the modem capability flags with
a similar scheme. Eliminate the baud rate all together and use only
the modem flags instead. Maybe move the nodelist to a binary format
(to increase speed as well as reduce size). While these ideas could
not be implemented immediately, standards for their future use
could be developed (these things take time, right?).

Finally, I must agree with Mr. Kristoffersen that it is not
imperitave that drastic changes be made immediately. After all,
while 12617.7 megs sounds like a LOT of hard drive space, it isn't
really that much when divided among over 30000 nodes. But,
computers in general (and telecommunications in particular) are
rapidly changing, and fido is eventually going to need to trim some
fat from the nodelist, and develop standards for a new nodelist
format. The current nodelist format is rapidly becomming too
complex and outdated. Why not start looking at some changes now? If
changes aren't made, 10 years down the road the nodelist will
become a huge monster that will not be practical to work with. It
is getting pretty close to that point now! The future will have to
bring changes, and a good time to start looking at them is today.

Doug McLean 1:255/9.0
Via DLGMail @ 1:255/9.0

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Welfare Reform and Where To Discuss It

Welfare Reform & Where To Discuss It
By Mike Adams, 1:19/10

Several years ago I started the Welfare Conference because I noticed
there seemed to be no clear place for the issues involving social
services system to be discussed. The conference very quickly moved to
the Zone 1 Backbone, and it's been a place for many interesting dis-
cussions ever since. Though I originally envisioned the conference as
involving just the social service programs in the United States, it
soon grew to encompass many parts of the world. Australian and
Canadian participants often give a viewpoint which has been both
educational and invigorating.
FidoNews 11-26 Page: 26 27 Jun 1994

The headlines in today's papers virtually scream out about the subject
of welfare reform, and we've been discussing it for quite a while in
the Welfare Conference. Some speak from the experience of receiving
benefits, others from administering welfare programs, and still others
speak from the sidelines where they've been viewing the abuses that
currently flaw the system. Some of the ideas presented have been on
the radical side, and some have been thought-provoking. All are worth
considering.

So, whether you're a welfare recipient (past or present), a welfare
worker, or just an interested party, the opportunity awaits you. You
can discuss your ideas with others who are interested in discussing
them. The conference is on the Zone 1 Backbone. Request it now!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

FidoNet LAW Echo Moderator Makes News!

from Lester Garrett
1:125/101

(From a Cross-Posted Message)

Source: THE ARIZONA REPUBLIC
Wednesday, May 4, 1994
page B7

COURT UPHOLDS FINE FOR DIVORCE LAWYER ON LAM
--------------------------------------------
By Brent Whiting
and Pamela Manson
The Arizona Republic

"The legal problems of a Phoenix divorce lawyer on the lam took
another turn for the worse Tuesday as the Arizona Court of Appeals
upheld a blow to his pocketbook.

"The court refused to set aside a $9,350 fine slapped against Robert
Hirschfeld last year after a judge held him in contempt for advising a
client to sell his estranged wife's van to pay Hirschfeld's fees.

"In a 3-0 opinion, the court rejected Hirschfeld's arguments that he
doesn't need to pay because legal fees are 'necessities of life' that
are exempt from court orders to preserve assets in divorce cases.

"The court's decision follows a ruling Friday in which a federal judge
refused to prohibit state judges from having Hirschfeld jailed for
failing to pay a $20,000 fine in another case.

"Hirschfeld vowed Tuesday that despite the recent setbacks, he will
continue with appeals that he expects to solve his problems.

"'It's improper to use an arrest warrant to collect a money
FidoNews 11-26 Page: 27 27 Jun 1994

judgement,' Hirschfeld said. 'Ultimately, they (the courts) will have
to admit I'm right.'

"He made the comments during a telephone conversation with _The
Arizona Republic_. Hirschfeld, who placed the call from an
undisclosed location, would not comment on reports that members of the
Valley legal community have spotted him in Puerto Penasco, Sonora.

"Hirschfeld, 52, went underground last month after Judge Alfred Rogers
of Maricopa County Superior Court issued a warrant for his arrest for
failing to pay the $20,000 fine.

"Sources say that aside from his differences with Rogers, Hirschfeld
may face more-serious problems with clients who feel they are being
short-changed while he is gone.

"The sources said the State Bar of Arizona takes a dim view of lawyers
who collect fees but don't perform services. Such complaints could
result in the revocation of Hirschfeld's license, they said.

"One client, Daniel Howard of Glendale, said his child-support
payments were increased two weeks ago because Hirschfeld did not show
up in court. Hirschfeld sent a substitute lawyer for another hearing,
but the replacement knew nothing about the case, Howard said.

"'He should take care of his clients and then take care of his
problems,' said Howard, who says Hirschfeld still owes him $3,000
worth of legal work for a $6,000 retainer he paid.

"Hirschfeld replied that he has made arrangements for substitute
lawyers in his cases and that Howard's payments went up despite an
objection.

"'I'm not abandoning him,' he said.

"The Court of Appeals ruling against Hirschfeld involves a pending
divorce between an Air Force captain and his wife.

"Judge Brian Hauser of Superior Court held Hirschfeld in contempt Dec.
7 after the officer had removed his wife's van from a Glendale
Community College parking lot while she was attending classes.

"The officer later sold the vehicle for $13,300, about $5,000 less
than its fair-market value, and used the proceeds to buy a
less-expensive vehicle for himself and to pay legal fees to
Hirschfeld.

"The Court of Appeals upheld findings by Hauser that the sale violated
the terms of a preliminary injunction enjoining both parties in the
divorce from disposing of assets.

"Judge Thomas Kleinschmidt, writing for the court, said Hauser
reasonably could have inferred from the evidence that Hirschfeld had
advised his client to sell the van.

FidoNews 11-26 Page: 28 27 Jun 1994

"Hirschfeld said Tuesday that the vehicle was taken from the wife
before he was representing her husband."

Afterward: According to a follow-up story, Mr. Hirschfeld was
apprehended on May 5th and spent the night behind bars.

According to attorney Mark Osterman, Moderator of the FidoNet
LEGAL_LAW Echo,

". . .it has been reported that the $20,000 fine/sanction is as a
result of failing to disclose (during a long custody battle) that [Mr.
Hirschfeld's] client had attempted suicide. One attorney in the area
stated that [Mr. Hirschfeld] had indeed hidden this fact from the
judge, that the suicide attempt had occurred days before the trial
began. The $20,000 were the fees and costs of the opposing party's
defense on behalf of the mother.

"Upon being hit with these fines and costs, it is alleged that a
Complaint was filed in Federal court which was denied, wherein [Mr.
Hirschfeld] asked the Court to set aside the Order of the Arizona
Superior Court. The Federal District Court declined. . . ."

====================================

END TRANS

----------------------------------------------------------------------

ECSTASY now available from 1:163/328

by Rick Pali
ECSTASY now available from 1:163/328

An echo is born, and it's called ECSTACY. The topic is the music of
Sarah McLachlan, Tori Amos, Kate Bush, Jane Siberry and similar
non-commercial female artists. Any discussion, debate, news questions
about these performers are welcome. If you've visited the Usenet
group rec.music.gaffa, you'll feel right at home in ECSTASY.

The echo is less than a month old and isn't backboned so distribution
is private. Traffic now is less than 20 messages a week but that will
increase as more systems link in.

If you're interested in a feed, or more information please feel free
to drop me a netmail message.

Rick Pali
ECSTASY Moderator
1:163/328
FidoNews 11-26 Page: 29 27 Jun 1994

CORELDRAW now available from 1:163/328

by Rick Pali
CORELDRAW now available from 1:163/328

CorelDraw is the leading professional graphics package available for
a PC running MS Windows. With a program as complex as this one, there
are bound to be tips and tricks to help you work faster and better that
you're not aware of. Tune in to the newly formed CORELDRAW echo to
discuss the software, and how you work with it.

If you're interested in a feed, or more information, please feel free
to drop me a netmail message.

Rick Pali
ECSTASY Moderator
1:163/328

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Wholly_Bible, To whom does it belong?

By Mark Wilson
Wholly_Bible, To Whom does it belong?

Quoting Steve Winter from the FIDO1125.NWS issue of Fidonews...

SW> The PRIME Network
SW> Steve Winter
SW> FidoNet 1:18/98
SW>
SW> (much verbage deleted)
SW>
SW> WHOLLY_BIBLE (C)Copyright 1988-94 Steve Winter,
SW>
SW> (more verbage deleted)

Contrary to Mr. Winter's statement that is quoted above, other than
his claim to have copyright over the words WHOLLY_BIBLE, which is
not a work that is available to copyright, he has nothing to do
whatsoever with the Wholly_Bible echo. The echo in question was
started in March of 1993 in response to his intolerance of differing
views, and is florishing quite well without any input from him,
although he has never been banished from accessing the echo. It is
available from the standard Zone 1 backbone connections, and is also
presently available from certain systems in Zone 3 as
Bible_Believers. The zone 3 distribution is presently changing so
that it will be available in Zone 3 as Wholly_Bible3, and at that
time the distribution as Bible_Believers will be curtailed, although
the Bible_Believers echo will remain as an independent echo.
Wholly_Bible and Wholly_Bible3 are distributed and moderated under
the control of Scott McCool (1:291/7) and Mark Wilson (1:379/1108),
and are available for distribution to other zones and networks by
prearranged agreements with the moderators.
FidoNews 11-26 Page: 30 27 Jun 1994

The purpose of the Wholly_Bible echo is to allow for discussion of
Bible topics, with the Bible being the source material for the
discussion, although peripheral material is allowed at the
discretion of the moderators. The moderators do maintain
discretionary control over what topics may be allowed, as some
topics do seem to become inflammatory in nature and are either
allowed or banned as is deemed necessary at the given time to
maintain the noise level at a comfortable level. We presently have
participants from many differing viewpoints; with Judaism, and many
differing flavors of Christian beliefs being presently discussed.
Discussion of the original language text is encouraged, whether it
be Hebrew, Chaldean, Aramaic, or Greek.

If you are looking for an echo that has a wide diversity of beliefs
represented, without the hatred towards and suppression of all
opposing thought that is prevalent in some other echoes, this may
be the one you are looking for. If you are looking for an echo with
the origin of the majority of the messages being from nodes other
than the moderators, this echo just might fit your desires. You are
encouraged to link the echo either through the backbone distribution
system, or contact either of the above stated persons for
arrangement of a feed at speeds up to 14,400 from 1:379/1108 or from
1:291/7 at speeds to 28,800. Other feeds may be available depending
upon arrangements available, including but not limited to tunneled
Internet feeds of echomail message packet files in standard FTS
style.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Darling Madam EMilia

Q: I have developed asthma. All my friends who frequently drop by
smoke. Now I am allergic to this smoke. So I hide in my room with
my computer and avoid them, because I do not want to order them not
to smoke around me. What should I do? I must confess I am rather
enjoying hiding in my room with my computer.

A: Obviously you have developed "asthma" as an excuse to spend all
of your time near your BBS. This is fine. Stop worrying. Perhaps
you could actually meet some of your BBS friends? However, it is
not necessary to "actually" meet your BBS friends, becasue
electronic existance is as least as important as physical existence.
You probably are closer emotionally to little letters on a screen
than you are to posturing and contrived real-time social scenes
anyway.

Q: I have fallen in love again, with another Mike-like character.
I also have a crush on Rufo, and Libby. The problem is, he wants
to seduce ME over the net, but I feel uncomfortable with this. I
HATE being conquered. I would rather seduce HIM. If i am seducing
him, then i am in control. What if he thinks I am too wierd and I
scare him away? This would be unBearably painful. What should I do?

FidoNews 11-26 Page: 31 27 Jun 1994

A: Masochism is the answer to all emotional angst. If he
disappears into the greater Fido never to be seen again, enjoy
this. Enjoy the bizarreness of whichever scene you encounter.
Besides, you have disappeared, leaving lots of love-struck puppies
before now and you never even said "goodbye" to any of them, so this
serves you right. NAA-na-Na. You are a BITCH and you know it, so
stop whining. Just because you have a nice ass you think no-one
will mind when you mailer doesn't work. You deserve to be
tortured.

Q: I haven't had any internet mail for days now because my
upstream host is down or there is some other amorphous technical
problem. What should i do?

A: Use FidoNet. Internet is k for dabbling and you can get some
magazines on Internet that are much harder to find on FidoNet. But
I've never had a problem with lost mail in FidoNet. Dabble on
Internet, Babble on Fidonet. Besides, one of these days it will
become hideously important that FidoNet is a VOLUNTEER
oprganization, never to be clobbered by beurocracy or legalisms or
government.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

1984 tee shirt

Sender: [email protected]

Here is some more info on the "1984" tee shirt. I URGE you to GET
THIS. My order is in the mail. I've seen the shirt. IT'S GREAT!!!

----Forwarded message begins here---

I still have some of the shirts. I've included the ordering info.
It covers payment, available sizes and colors and payment.

-john.

------------------------
John Blair: <[email protected]> voice: (513) 523-2961
http://phoenix.aps.muohio.edu/users/jdblair/home.html KILL YOUR
PGP public key available upon request. TELEVISION

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

1984 NSA T-Shirt Ordering Information

What does the design look like?

The design is be printed in white ink on a dark colored shirt.

The front design is:

1984
FidoNews 11-26 Page: 32 27 Jun 1994

+---+
|(O)| <--- half-tone picture of an eye
+---+
"We're Behind
Schedule"
National Security Agency

The text is EuroStyle Extended. The eye is rendered in a coarse
half-tone. The back of the shirt is the "Cyber Rights Now" fist
and lightning logo from Wired Magazine. The shirts are 100% cotton.
Available shirt colors are black, navy, dark green, and maroon.
Available sizes are L, XL, and XXL. 3XL is also available for an
extra $2/shirt in the same colors, excluding maroon.

Where can I see the design?

The design is available via WWW clients at:
http://phoenix.aps.muohio.edu/users/jdblair/t-shirt.html
Mosaic will display the images directly. Lynx, as well as other
ascii based systems, should let you download the gifs to your local
system.

It is also available via anonymous ftp at:
ftp.atd.ucar.edu:/pub/Crypto
ftp.wimsey.bc.ca:/pub/crypto/shirt

How much does it cost?

The t-shirt is priced at $15 if sent to an address within the
United States. For addresses in Canada, the price is $16. For
addresses in most of Western Europe, $18. If you wish the shirt to
be shipped outside of these areas, please e-mail me for pricing
information. If you can come pick it up from me personally, the
charge is only $13.

How do I get one?

I have a small number of shirts in stock. Let me know what size
and color you would like, and I'll let you know if I have one. I
will be able to send your shirt when I receive your money.
Unfortunately, since digital cash isn't a reality yet, you'll have
to snail-mail me the money.

Make out your check or money order to me, John Blair.

My address is:

1984 T-Shirt
John Blair
223 S College
Oxford, OH 45056

Please notice that this address is DIFFERENT from the previously
posted address. I've moved off campus for the summer.

FidoNews 11-26 Page: 33 27 Jun 1994

Be sure to include the size, and color of the shirt you want, as
well as a snail-mail address where I should send the shirt, and an
e-mail address for confirmation of the order. Please write your
e-mail address CLEARLY.

Money order is preferable. If you send a check, I will have to
wait until the check clears before sending your shirt.

Notice for international orders: Payment must be in U.S. Dollars.

For more information, please e-mail me at:
[email protected]

This file was last updated on 21.May.94.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.3

iQBVAgUBLd5ZqYuQSr5WjekpAQFh+wH+NyHaMB08hDVz6Gv7G38UefNj8gCI+Ca5
3AuldfLC0jb44jz3qn9wmh0pc2ai8vLO0haYehE7SZ0r87eATN60jg==
=rRfq
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

----------------------------------------------------------------------

========================================================================
Fidonews Information
========================================================================

------- FIDONEWS MASTHEAD AND CONTACT INFORMATION ----------------

Editors: Sylvia Maxwell, Donald Tees
Editors Emeritii: Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell,
Vince Perriello, Tim Pozar
Tom Jennings
"FidoNews" BBS
FidoNet 1:1/23
BBS +1-519-570-4176, 300/1200/2400/14400/V.32bis/HST(DS)
Internet addresses:
Don & Sylvia (submission address)
[email protected]
Sylvia -- [email protected]
Donald -- [email protected]
Tim -- [email protected]

(Postal Service mailing address)
FidoNews
128 Church St.
Kitchener, Ontario
Canada
N2H 2S4

Voice: (519) 570-3137

FidoNews 11-26 Page: 34 27 Jun 1994

Published weekly by and for the members of the FidoNet international
amateur electronic mail system. It is a compilation of individual
articles contributed by their authors or their authorized agents. The
contribution of articles to this compilation does not diminish the
rights of the authors. Opinions expressed in these articles are those
of the authors and not necessarily those of FidoNews.

Authors retain copyright on individual works; otherwise FidoNews is
Copyright 1994 Sylvia Maxwell. All rights reserved. Duplication and/or
distribution permitted for noncommercial purposes only. For use in
other circumstances, please contact the original authors, or FidoNews
(we're easy).

OBTAINING COPIES: The-most-recent-issue-ONLY of FidoNews in electronic
form may be obtained from the FidoNews BBS via manual download or
Wazoo FileRequest, or from various sites in the FidoNet and Internet.
PRINTED COPIES may be obtained from Fido Software for $10.00US each
PostPaid First Class within North America, or $13.00US elsewhere,
mailed Air Mail. (US funds drawn upon a US bank only.)

INTERNET USERS: FidoNews is available via FTP from ftp.fidonet.org,
in directory ~ftp/pub/fidonet/fidonews. If you would like a FAQ, or
have questions regarding FidoNet, or UUCP<==>FidoNet gateways, please
direct them to David Deitch (1:133/411@fidonet) at
[email protected].

SUBMISSIONS: You are encouraged to submit articles for publication in
FidoNews. Article submission requirements are contained in the file
ARTSPEC.DOC, available from the FidoNews BBS, or Wazoo filerequestable
from 1:1/23 as file "ARTSPEC.DOC". Please read it.

"Fido", "FidoNet" and the dog-with-diskette are U.S. registered
trademarks of Tom Jennings, and are used with permission.

Asked what he thought of Western civilization,
M.K. Gandhi said, "I think it would be an excellent idea".
-- END
----------------------------------------------------------------------