F I D O N E W S -- Vol.11 No.25 (20-Jun-1994)
+----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
| A newsletter of the | ISSN 1198-4589 |
| FidoNet BBS community | Published by: |
| _ | |
| / \ | "FidoNews" BBS |
| /|oo \ | +1-519-570-4176 1:1/23 |
| (_| /_) | |
| _`@/_ \ _ | Editors: |
| | | \ \\ | Donald Tees 1:221/192 |
| | (*) | \ )) | Sylvia Maxwell 1:221/194 |
| |__U__| / \// | Tim Pozar 1:125/555 |
| _//|| _\ / | |
| (_/(_|(____/ | |
| (jm) | Newspapers should have no friends. |
| | -- JOSEPH PULITZER |
+----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
| Submission address: editors 1:1/23 |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Internet addresses: |
| |
| Sylvia --
[email protected] |
| Donald --
[email protected] |
| Tim --
[email protected] |
| Both Don & Sylvia (submission address) |
|
[email protected] |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| For information, copyrights, article submissions, |
| obtaining copies and other boring but important details, |
| please refer to the end of this file. |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
========================================================================
Table of Contents
========================================================================
1. Editorial..................................................... 2
2. Articles...................................................... 2
Insanity.................................................... 2
Cat Torture................................................. 3
Need your help!............................................. 4
New Backbone Echo: SHADOW................................... 6
BOOOP....................................................... 7
World Muslim Network........................................ 8
The PRIME Network........................................... 9
Policy proposal............................................. 11
Muse Studio (poetry discussion)............................. 13
Dear Madam Emilia Erhardt................................... 17
What is a "First Among Equals" ?............................ 18
3. Fidonews Information.......................................... 18
FidoNews 11-25 Page: 2 20 Jun 1994
========================================================================
Editorial
========================================================================
A copy of the full policy as proposed this time is file-requestable
from 1:1/23 as POL450.ZIP.
Fnoozey woosey editrix is now about to creep downstairs to find
Donald and attempt to seduce him into finishing writing this
editorial, because she is growing bored with her own recent binge
of soap-boxing....
down
stairs
more
stairs....
It seems to me that it would be a lot simpler to just toss out
policy four and go back to Tom Jenning's original two rules: try
not to bug people, and try not to be bugged.
I follow the goings on in our regional echo, and see policy
being used chiefly for attempting to build fiefdoms and control
sysops. I have no desire to be controled by anybody, and I
suspect that few sysops do. I seldom hear anybody say we need
policy to control *me* ... it is always *them* that needs to be
controled.
My mail comes in through my Nec. Strictly against policy, of
course, but then the Nec just sits there, keeps his nose clean,
and gets the mail out. He never gets involved in politics. The
same is true for our Rec. Just mail, day after day after day.
We have never had an election for our Nec or our Rec. They do
too good a job. Nobody has ever wanted one.
========================================================================
Articles
========================================================================
Insanity
Carl Kristoffersen (1:141/910)
My Opinion about the "Insanity"
It was recently reported that the node list contains excess
baggage. So, me being the curious one, I figured I would take a
quick look at the situation. The first thing that I found, was that
my node list was only 1.54 meg instead of the 2.5 meg which Mr.
Gilmore had reported. Thinking that maybe something was amiss (or a
ms. for the feminists), I downloaded the list from a very well
respected veteran sysop in the Fidonet community (a little brown
nosing never hurt) and found it to be one byte larger than mine. The
end of the world seems near at this point. It just turned out that
it was a changed phone number. I don't know how this happened, but
when I find out, heads will roll, except of course if it was my
fault.
At this point I proceded to root out (no pun intended) the evil
doers in the list. I found that there was 16 nodes on hold, 354
FidoNews 11-25 Page: 3 20 Jun 1994
nodes down and possibly 14,000 nodes, that would be the maximum
number, that could delete the v32, flags etc. from their line in the
list.
According to my calculations, we could save 100k by doing all of
the above. That means that if someones machine processes the list
in 30 minutes prior to the changes, it could be cut back to 29
minutes 59.883 seconds. Percentage wise, it's a .0065% difference.
I'm sure that could be precious time for some, and they probably
got excited about the leap second that will be added at the end of
this month, but I'm usually sleeping, working or riding my
motorcycle while it's being processed, so it gives me that much more
time to enjoy those things.
Here's how I got 14,000
v32,v42 355
v32b,v42 200
v32,v42b 824
v32b,v42b 11654
-----
13033
+ 967 for general priciples
-----
14000
As you can see, I even stretched it a bit, actually, quite a few
bits (pun intended).
I'm not against cleaning up the node list some, like taking out
some of the down systems or verifying that v32's are not v32b's,
etc. but I don't believe it is as imparitve as some grunts make it
out to be.
For most of us, it is only a hobby (except Dan, the Donutman), and
as such, will be more resistant to changes when it comes from
individuals who stand with a firm opinion rather than an open mind.
Carl Kristoffersen
1:141/910
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Cat Torture
Michael Johnson (1:106/3323)
Hello FIDOnetters! I want to announce a new echo that I am
hoping will get off the ground real quickly and make backbone
status. I am counting on you to help me meet this goal as soon as w
humanly possibly so that we can all surf the cyberwave on
CAT_TORTURE....which is hosted from 106/3323.
Yes, we aren't your run of the mill "I hate cats" type people.
No. We are the folks who love to yank Fluffy's tail...and then swing
him/her around in the air by it before releasing said feline into a
substantial firmament...such as a concrete wall. We are creative,
caring, loving compassionate people who just plain despise those of
FidoNews 11-25 Page: 4 20 Jun 1994
the feline persuasion.
We discuss such interesting topics as...
*- How to train a pit bull to bite a cat in half.
*- Rubber band attack on feline strongholds.
*- Feline-SCUBA diving and how to impliment it.
(mason jar not included)
*- How to use catskin for articles of clothing.
*- How to remove the cat's heart and show it to him
while it's still beating.
AND MORE!
*- Postal regulations about mailing cats to distant places.
*- How to get UPS to ship cats to Canada.
*- Seldom used varmint laws that could actually turn your hobby
into a golden opportunity to earn cash and make the "big time"!
I would appreciate a response ASAP from all of the cat hating
sysops out there so that we can get this thing moving. We need to
get on the backbone so that we can share our tips and hints with all
of the other cat-o-phobes and start making this a great nation like
it was intended. People point their fingers at the liberals and
demorats and accuse them of bringing this country down, but I happen
to know that it is those darn cats.
flames=>dev.null
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Need your help!
Pedro Jaramillo (1:202/1620)
CC: Brenda Donovan, Editor, Hostmaster, Bob Johnstone
Hello SysOp:
I do not know what to do or where else to go.
On May 21 a guy named Bob Carroll, a user of 202/1601 sent a racist
message agains hispanics which I responded defending my race.
On May 22 an unusual number of users started to log into my BBS
leaving insulting messages, wrong names and telephone numbers. One
of this users called himself Bob Jarey (never called again) using
similar arguments as those presented before by Bob Carroll offered
to upload many files.
FidoNews 11-25 Page: 5 20 Jun 1994
One hour later Portal of Power reported node 202/1010 (Bud Jamison)
drop a file reported by Palmscan as infected by a virus. I
discovered this next morning and sent appropiate messages to
202/1601 (Chris Christenses) 202/1 (Brenda Donovan) 202/1010 (Bud
Jamison)
Bud Jamison responded he never upload any file that night. Chris
Christensen called me a layer and said I sabotaged my own system to
make them look bad. I requested no feed from his node anymore and at
the same time I requested Brenda Donovan for a new Hub since
according to him Bob Corello was his best user, a example of an
American Citizen and so he had all the right to use and abuse his
right of offending my culture.
Several people, including Brenda Donovan, have told me Bob Corrello
is only an agitator, others refer to him as a nuisance.
Since May 22 Brenda Donovan has also exchanged messages advicing me
that Fidonet may be too much for me and that I may preffer to stay
out I requested a new assignmet of HUBs because of the reasons I
explained in this message but she kept promessing me she will assign
me to a different HUB but no luck until now. It's been almost one
month I have not bein able to receive your messages nor sent you any
message so I am sending you this message as 'direct' mail to your
system.
When I first requested a node, it took less than 24 hours .. now
it's been about 24 days, may question to you is this ..
" would it be different if my sking color is white " ?
I would probably not have anything to fight for nor anything to
defend. Please help me to stop this racist attitudes.
The reason for me getting in contact with you is to let you know
Brenda Donovan has full control who you talk to, who gets in the
FidoNet network and also who can send you messages.
All I wanted to do is to be a part of you, to chat, to communicate
in a friendly and respectfull manner, but I will never tolerate any
insults to me or my race.
My question to you is also, how many more have not gone so far as I
did and left Fidonet becouse of her own decisions. Does she really
owns Fidonet? If she does ... what do I have to do to get back? She
has not informed me that either.
Most of you I have talked to in the past, know me well, and I have
never insulted any of you. Why do you allow this woman to tech me a
lesson I do not deserve to begin with?
How can we avoid this things to happen again?
I want to apologize for involving you in this manner but I have been
FidoNews 11-25 Page: 6 20 Jun 1994
'excomunicated' from Fidonet without notice. Further more I no
longer enjoy comunicating with Brenda Donovan.
Please send your replays 'direclty' to this system since I am not
receiving route mail from Fidonet.
If you can, please allow your users to know I have been
excomunicated from Fidonet without notice.
If you would like to see the original messages exchanged regarding
this issue, I will make a ZIP file of all of them under the name
MSGS.ZIP so you can Freq it any time.
My sytem is on line from 6:00 p.m. to 9:00 a.m. (BBS & FAX)
My phone numer is 619-584-0333
I will appreciate your help.
Pedro Jaramillo
HISPANA On-Line!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
New Backbone Echo: SHADOW
By Stephen Atkins 1:140/23.4@FidoNet
A new backbone echo
Hello everyone. I know what your thinking. We don't need another
echo. Well I don't agree in this case.
I am starting the SHADOW echo. It is for everyone who wants to
discuss the ShadowRun RPG and CyberPunk RPG, along with any other
RPG that pertains to the futuristic world.
I won't post the echos rules here. They will be posted in the echo
every month. This echo should be availible by July 1, 1994 when the
new new backbone list comes out.
For any questions or comments please send them to me at
Stephen Atkins 1:140/23.4 @FidoNet
Thanks for your time and hard disk space.
FidoNews 11-25 Page: 7 20 Jun 1994
BOOOP
ECHOPOL OUTLINE
(with changes to existing p4)
Bob Moravsik (1:2606/583)
Here is a proposed echomail policy outline that a group worked on
starting in 1991. In policy developments its best to stay in outline
form until CONCEPTS are fixed. THEN draft full text.
Bob
9.9 Background/prolog: echos for benefit or participant, routing the
responsibility of wide area network, moderator exist for the
benefit of participants...grab a few sentences from now section
9.9. Warm and fuzzy stuff here.
9.9.1 Definitions
9.9.1.1 IEC
9.9.1.2 ZEC
9.9.1.3 REC
9.9.1.4 NEC
9.9.1.5 HEC
9.9.1.6 Moderators
9.9.1.7 Hubs
9.9.1.8 ECHOTAG
9.9.1.9 ECHOLIST/Echolist Coordinator
9.9.2 How appointed (each appointed by *C AND maybe with advise and
consent of
*ec-1...creative area) lots of manuevering expected here
9.9.3 Duties IEC
9.9.4 " ZEC
9.9.5 " REC
9.9.6 " NEC
9.9.7 " HEC
9.9.8 " Moderators
9.9.9 " Routing Hubs
9.9.9.1 ZONE
9.9.9.2 REGION
9.9.9.3 NET
9.9.9.4 HUB
9.9.10 Duties Echolist coordinator-may promulate listing procedures
Filename=ELISTMOD.PRO, needs IEC approval indicated
in text of file.
9.9.11 Duties defined above are inclusive, no others implied
(the old check and balance)
9.9.12 Applying for an ECHOTAG
9.9.12.1 If tag unlisted, messages are NETMAIL. May not use
section 9.9. Moderator/tag not recognized.
9.9.12.2 Tag must not be confusing to existing LISTED tag. Purpose
of echo may be exactly the same. ELIST coordinator's
call. Appeal to IEC.
9.9.13 Conferences rules (a generic set for all conferences)
9.9.13.1 Moderator may ONLY promulgate TOPIC related rules
9.9.13.2 Only rules listed in ECHOLIST are valid
9.9.13.3 Requirement: draft changes posted, 30 day comment
FidoNews 11-25 Page: 8 20 Jun 1994
adopted after addressing comments, sent to ECHOLIST
coordinator. Changes valid upon next listing. Rule
set sequentially numbered.
9.9.13.4 Rules MUST be consistantly applied.
9.9.14.5 Moderator "procedure"-stuff the rational points
of "mod-pol" here.
9.9.14 Routing procedures (put a new bop "procedures" here after
ie. Request posted in public echo, 2 requests, request
mandatory after 2 nets or 3 nodes [change].)
9.9.15 Disputes/Appeal (through *C's BUT may be delagated to *ec)
Parallel sections of now p4, remedy is
excommunication from conference (permanent or temp)
or lose of moderatorship or *ec position etc.
(checks and balances here)
9.9.16 Interperative guielines. policies interperted in favor of
free expression and accussed given all favorable presumptions.
(maybe-no appeal if no violation found at first level)
9.9.17 Misc...a wrap up. helpful one/two liners that don't fit above
9.9.18 Subordinated to sections __________ affecting netmail.
9.9.19 Effective date +1 month except sections ________which are
effective _______ no power to extend.
In addition, modify sections of p4 dealing with "appointments" of *C's
and ammend to ELECTIONS...lots of disputes expected here. Up to
seventeen sections must be "tweeked"
****END*******
----------------------------------------------------------------------
World Muslim Network
Formation of the World Muslim Network (WMN)
By Eugene Hassan Hazer 1:3611/21
Islamic sysops who are looking for an access to Islamic material
and programs that are dedicated to Al-Islam are encouraged to join
the World Muslim Network (WMN). At present there are seven Islamic
BBSs operating in the United States and we are looking for others
in any part of the world that would like to become a hub or node in
this new network.
The WMN is dedicated to Islam and its teachings plus we strive to
correct the mistrust and mis-information about Islam that has been
spread here and abroad. We provide informational assistance to Muslims
that are new to our countries. We assist with training of new converts
and help them solve problems. WMN will also provide friday prayers
for persons in communities that do not have a Masjid or for persons
that would just like to tune in to the Masjid conferences. WMN will
become a multi fac'eted resource for persons who desire information
about Islam and its practices.
Non Islamic BBSs may participate by going through their local or
regional hub but please be reminded that this is a Islamic network
and Flames or abusive language is not allowed.
FidoNews 11-25 Page: 9 20 Jun 1994
WMN has three Islamic echoes established and many of the general
Fido type conferences available to our users. WMN hubs/nodes are
allowed to carry any conferences and files, etc, as long as it is
not against the scriptures or can be used as a vehicle against
Al-Islam. WMN at present has able personnel to help any novice
BBS user with the advice necessary to effectively set up his BBS
to interface with the WMN.
WMN formats for upload/downloads will be standard Fido format for
hubs but nodes can be either Fido or QWK format,depending on the
capabilities of the local hub.
Discussion areas
---------------------
Islam in General
Holy Qur'an
Hadith
Shari'a
Fiqh
The Companions
Da'wa
Reversions(Conversions)
Pillars of Al-Islam
History
Islamic Poetry
Islamic World Contributions
Islamic Schools/Schooling
Islamic Locator
Islamic News
The worlds view of Islam
Misconception about Islam
Raising Islamic children in America
From the Masjid
Criteria to be a Muslim
The Islamic family
Language of the Quran
Islamic Women only
Islamic Teens only
Cross cultural forum
Women in the Qur'an
_____________________________________
For an application packet, please file request the 'magic' file name
WMN from 1:3611/21,1:278/314 or 1:115/449. You may also D/L the file
'Islamic.Bbs' from 1-912-929-1073 for a list of Islamic BBSs located
here in the US.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The PRIME Network
Steve Winter
FidoNet 1:18/98
Please spread this info around. Thanks!!
As featured in Aug '93 BBS Caller's Digest and Dec '93 Online Access
FidoNews 11-25 Page: 10 20 Jun 1994
***************************************************************
* __________ __________ ___ ________ *
* | | | | | |\ /| | *
* | | | | | | \ / | | *
* |________| |________| | | \ / | |______ *
* | | \ | | \/ | | *
* | | \ | | | | *
* | | \ | | | | *
* | | \ _|_ | | |_______ *
* *
* 'The sun never sets on the PRIME network' *
***************************************************************
* PreRapture(tm) International Message Exchange *
***************************************************************
Hubs in NORTH AMERICA, SOUTH AMERICA, CANADA, EUROPE, and ASIA
USA Canada Brazil Germany Italy Belgium Taiwan Korea
Singapore Hong Kong Sweden UK Iceland Texas (and Growing!)
PRIME really is the Only True Christian worldwide network on earth.
* Both Religious (Christian) and non-religious conferences. *
A wholesome, family oriented network with a strict policy
against profanity, lewdness, obscenity etc..
Features echos on educational and technical topics.
* Elaborate Bible Discussion and Debate * False Preachers Exposed *
919-286-3962 * 919-286-3606 * 919-286-3266 * 919-286-2100
Using USRobotics Dual Standard Modems V.32bis-14,400 / HST-16800bps
* FREQ PRIME.ZIP from 1:18/98 or 1:2245/104 for network kit *
-={ HOLY_BIBLE Echo Conference }=-
Available through the PRIME Network and
on the FidoNet Zone 1 and Zone 2 Backbone
* The only true Christian Conference in FidoNet *
********
Acts 2:38 *++++++* John 3:5
*+ ** +*
**************+ ** +*************
*+++++++++++ ++++++++++*
*+ ******* HOLY_BIBLE ****** +*
*+++++++++++ ++++++++++*
**************+ ** +*************
*+ ** +*
Gal 1:8 *+ ** +* Mark 12:29
*+ ** +*
I Tim 3:16 *+ ** +* Acts 2:4
*+ ** +*
Isa 45:21 *+ ** +* Mark 16:16
*+ ** +*
Acts 10:46 *++++++* Acts 19:5
********
Hebrews 5:9 Acts 22:16 James 1:22
HOLY_BIBLE and WHOLLY_BIBLE (C)Copyright 1988-94 Steve Winter,
All rights reserved worldwide (with contributers
retaining all rights to their contributions)
FidoNews 11-25 Page: 11 20 Jun 1994
A very strict conference designed to expose fakes
by requiring that doctrines be proven with scripture.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Policy proposal
by Basil Dolmatov, 2:5020/140
Policy proposal or 'Festina lente but move at last!'
Five years passed since installing Policy 4.07 in FidoNet. A lot of
things have been changed till now and there is a strong need in new
policy document, reflecting current state of FidoNet and serving to
its development.
I do not think, that 'revolutionary' way is the best way to move
forward, so the basis for new policy proposal (marked as 4.50, so far
as it was born in region 50 <grin) is the current policy 4.07.
Some changes have been made in the text, having the goal to legalize
some tendencies in FidoNet development. Efforts were made to keep all
current procedures and not calling them obsolete but adding new ones.
This makes possible the co-existence of several different approaches,
thus leaving the judgement 'What is the better way of living?" to the
time only.
I hope, that this effort to create policy document, fitting current
needs of FidoNet, would be supported by Regional Coordinators and
this draft would be a platform for the new policy.
Policy proposal is requestable from 2:5020/140 (as well as from
1:1/23, I hope).
Here are the main changes in comparison with 4.07 policy (parenthesized
are my intentions):
1. Urge to create and distribute master nodelist is removed,
the master nodelist is considered to be a collection of zone nodelists
and appearing in full brilliance in rare case of referendum.
(This relieves troubles with huge size of nodelist and nearly
uncountable (more than 32767 <grin>) number of its entries.
This puts an end to possible desynchronizations between zones, so
far as there will be no _creation_ of world nodelist as ZC duty,
only creation of zone nodelist of own zone and _distribution_ of
zone nodelists (nodediffs) of other zones.
This allows for individual node to compose convenient set of zone
nodelists for use instead of keeping huge world nodelist)
2. Zone Mail Hour is renamed to Mail Hour with stated possibility to
set _different_ mail hours in different networks. The exact mail hour
(if it is not coincide with ZMH) is marked with #xx flag in the Host
entry of nodelist.
(This reflects current tendency to avoid usage of random direct
connections between distant networks, relying on stable internetwork
links. Nevertheless, the possibility to crashmail to any node is
intact, and proposed procedure for getting in touch with any node
outside my network is no more complicated than now, when I want to
FidoNews 11-25 Page: 12 20 Jun 1994
connect with node in other zone. The authors of two widely spreading
contemporary mailers (T-mail and Bink/+) expressed their disposition
to support an automatic MH determinition based on nodelist flags)
3. Urge for NC to run host system is weakened, leaving him fully
responsible for its operation.
(There are two demands, which sometimes cannot agree: the demand of
powerful and stable node as a host, and demand of power-brained and
stable person as NC. This allows to extract maximum benefit for
network in such situation )
4. Elections are mentioned as a possible way to install new
coordinator. Election is considered as an above coordinator decision,
and if he announced it, then the results are binding for him. Elected
persons could be dismissed as well as appointed ones (in case of
failing to perform their duties).
( clear, I think)
5. Impeachment procedure is expanded to all coordinator levels,
stating, that if an impeachment is succesful, then the election must
be held.
6. FidoNews is removed from list of obligatory items, leaving a
declaration about importance of FidoNews in the text. Possibility of
"local FidoNews" is mentioned.
7. Some angry words about possible geographic exemptions are removed,
freeing poor sysops, who are suffering from strange telco policy, from
guilty complex.
(This allows to do geographic exemptions when it is necessary without
bad feelings. There are really shizophrenic telco tariff systems
throughout the world).
8. Direct references to necessary communication standard are removed
and changed to indirect one. The right to put new standard
into force is given to IC.
(This allows to move to new standards without policy changes)
9. The demand of "IC being one of ZC" is lifted and transformed into
recommendation.
(I see no drawbacks from that, because, being elected by ZC, and
feeling possibility of being overruled, the IC will be forced to
cooperate with ZCC and all questions which IC must resolve, will be
resolved in fact by ZCC+IC).
10. The possibility of _additional_ demands to the new nodes in the
network is mentioned, not as a condition to be listed, but as a
condition to get some _additional_ services except host-routing of
incoming netmail.
11. Using fakenets when supporting points is mentioned as one of
possible ways, not the obligatory one.
12. Case histories are removed, thus leaving all situations to
coordinator's discretion.
FidoNews 11-25 Page: 13 20 Jun 1994
There could be something else, but the main points are clear, I think.
All these changes are quite independent and I put them in one draft,
having intention to show my feeling of FidoNet trends and movements and
my picture of FidoNet now.
Any comments, discussions and opinions are welcome at 2:5020/140.
Cheers, Basil.
--- Nothing special
* Origin: Edifying Cat Point Station (2:5020/140.1)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Muse Studio (poetry discussion)
Michael Nellis (1:240/1.27)
Greetings and salutations to all writers and poets.
This is just a short note to let you know about a new, North
America wide echo.
==========================WELCOME================================
=======================TO MUSE STUDIO============================
TAGNAME: MUSE
TITLE: MUSE STUDIO (Poetry Discussion)
DESCRIPTION:
This NEW Fido conference is designed as an international forum to
encourage poets to master the craft by posting poetry both old
and new, exploring techniques, and informing on poetry news and
conferences. Of most importance will be discussions on a wide
range of subjects, the purpose of which will be to generate and
develop poetry through an exchange of ideas. This is not just a
beginner's workshop, but a virtual spot for increasing mastery in
the field through discussion, feature articles, and reviews.
However, ALL are invited, and critiques may be requested.
Performance poetry on tape, both audio and video, and hypertext
poetry are just two of the fields to be explored among the
participants of this conference. News of contests, markets,
books, poets, and media presentations will also be part of the
service.
ORIGIN: 1:3601/25
DISTRIBUTION: 1:3601/25, 1:3601/88, 1:135/907, 1:3615/41,
1:150/175, 1:106/12, 1:106/6073, 1: 3601/23, 1:243/50, 1:243/50.4
Moderator: Claire Brunetti 1:3601/25
Co-Moderator: Michael Nellis 1:243/50.4
as of 2/11/94
=============================RULES===============================
FidoNews 11-25 Page: 14 20 Jun 1994
Feel free to post your poems, comments, news, and discussions.
Any type of poetry is welcome. If you request critique, please do
so on one poem at a time and allow a generous response period.
Generally, a reaction to a poem receives a fast response; whereas
a critique will take much longer. This is not an instructional
echo; all respondents are equally responsible for the veracity of
shared information. However, literary experimentation is desired.
Philosophical discussions are encouraged, but be aware that each
person retains the right to her/his own belief system and is not
required to be convinced of the rightness of anyone else's. When
in doubt as to the intent of a respondent, ascribe good will and
a "wait and see" attitude. Mundane discussions are also
encouraged since they often spark creative application.
Very personal discussions and emotional disagreements should be
moved to a <chat> or netmail situation. Thank you. I hope you
enjoy your stay.
Claire Brunetti
.. Muse Studio, Gaineville, FL (1:3601/25) @904-373-0237
++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++
If you are interested in polling for MUSE, here is the
information your sysop will need.
++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++
Netmail Scott Moyers at 1:3615/41 with BBS Name, Sysop Name,
Conference Requested (MUSE), Session Password, and Default
Archiver. That's all your sysop needs to do to get it set up.
++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++
Scott Moyers' BBS # is (615) 281-2104. If FL is a cheaper call,
your sysop could also poll MUSE @ Digital Underground, sysop
Eddie Auerbach (904) 373-0237 with the area fix MUSE and default
archiver. Same info. as for Scott re. sysop.
++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++
Why should you poll for MUSE? Muse_Studio is dedicated to
offering both professional and personal support of artists in the
field.
We hope to develop an echo with a friendly atmosphere where folks
can drop in for just a chat with fellow artists, or get into an
intense discussion of the art and craft of writing poetry, or
where they can post light hearted verse.
Here are some extracts from a just a few messages:
-Hal Rhodes
I wanna talk poetic theory, philosophy, opinion, idea...etc. I
FidoNews 11-25 Page: 15 20 Jun 1994
wanna have my work savaged where it deserves it...and for the
critic to have the courage of his/her conviction. Let's talk
about it. Let's keep our hearts off our sleeves and our swords,
and get on with sincerely honest (and honestly sincere)
productivity.....so to speak. Heheheheh.
<getting off soapbox>
* * *
Many poets experience major breakthroughs in the quality of their
work after a Renga collaboration. My own work leaped ahead after
my first Renga. Since then, I've looked to help others experience
such leaps. Rengas may be fun but the focus is on developing
Discipline. An attribute sorely absent in the majority of online
poetry. Well.....it's much too late in the game to salvage this
unfortunate mess. You have my regretful apology. I can do no more
than declare this Renga at an end.
++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++
-Claire Brunneti
I'm amazed that you made it here so quickly after Hal gave you
the phone number. I had a netmail inquiry from a sysop in Tacoma,
WA, and thought it might be you. How have you been? How's the
poetry? If you don't know Tippi, you should. She writes some
stunning stuff and publishes poetry, too. I think you know
everyone else.
MW> see some familiar names (even though you may know me
MW> primarily as a "lurker" from months past.) Is this board
MW> going onto a backbone sometime soon? Later. Marilyn
No, I don't know you as a lurker; you were always writing and/or
working on poetry. Published a poem on herons, too, didn't you?
Great to have your input here!
* * *
MN> that the first draft may have more emotional impact.
CB> Yep. It's better poetry.
MN> Thought so. I'm not sure why, but the choice of victim over
MN> prey just seems to make so much difference.
"Prey" has many connotations; victim seems only to have one.
Ambiguity is a desirable quality in poetry since it "allows" the
reader various experiences instead of only one.
++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++
-Tippi Blevins
So you see, Genre poetry doesn't have to be about Martians or
FidoNews 11-25 Page: 16 20 Jun 1994
space ships. It can be about the wonders of space and other
planets. Let me know if you're interested in writing genre
poetry. I can point you in the right directions to get
published.
++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++
-Pauline Schwen
Everyone has really been very nice about sending lots of hugs.
They DO help. <g> I was feeling better today and started sorting
through the pages of the chapbook. (Things are looking up!)
++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++
-Mike Beck
Many thanks to you sir for bringing to my attention "Ballads of a
Bohemian." I was much impressed (inspired?) by the excerpts in
your message and I will certainly look for it. I owe you one,
thanks.
++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++
-Michael Nellis
MN> In the love nest, whence such things don't intrude,
CB> The combo. of antiquated English words like "whence,"
CB> "quoth," "apothecary," "gallows," and modern business
CB> practices of "conference" and "plastic money," etc. feels
CB> odd. What response are you hoping to produce in your reader?
I have no idea. It just felt right to write it that way.
I have tried using such a combo in other poems, and it fell flat,
but in this case it seems to fit in comfortably (to me anyway;
other comments are appreciated).
* * *
HR> Gut reactions (and articulate commentary) welcomed.
Perhaps if you included something to tie together the apprentice
sorcerer in the first verse, to the master sorcerer in the
second. The way it stands you seem to have a beginning and an
end, but no middle.
* * *
I've been studying my _Complete Poems of Robert Service_, and one
of the books it contains is his _Ballads of a Bohemian_.
This is a book of poetry, but it is presented as a diary. It was
written while Service was in France and Belgium, in 1914 and '15.
It chronicles his efforts to establish himself as a poet before
the outbreak of hostilities, and some of his activities as a Red
FidoNews 11-25 Page: 17 20 Jun 1994
Cross man during the First World War.
It is an often powerful mix of prose and poetry, and I was
wondering if any else had done something similar.
During Service's stay in Paris he had two close friends. One was
Saxon Dane, and the other was McBean (no first name.) Anybody
know who these two were? McBean was a novelist and short story
writer, Dane wrote Free Verse. They were both killed during the
war.
It was McBean who helped to establish Service by acting as his
agent and placing some of his poetry. Enough to keep Service
from starving, at any rate. Service lived the life of a (almost)
starving artist while in the Montparnasse district in Paris. At
one point he was down to his last ten sous (cents), and at
another he was down to his last meal. He was saved on both
occasions by McBean's having sold some of his work.
(And we think we've got it tough.) ;-)
++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++
So, whether you're an old hand with plenty of sales, or a
struggling neophyte stuck on trying to get that perfect word,
Muse_Studio has a place for you.
I hope to see you there.
Michael Nellis, Co-moderator
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Madam Emilia Erhardt
A: Hurry up and make up some questions, k? We don't have much time
left before the snooze goes down the wire.
Q: I do not "make up" questions. They're actual questions, which
come to mind, in response to male. I read a lot of mail and it
confuses me. Speaking of confusion, I browsed through a packet of
messages relevent to the "cry for help" article. I did not quite
understand them. Why not?
A: There's a fine line between saying what you mean honestly, and
ignoring people's feelings. This line is drawn in a variety of hues
and densities, including opacity, redness, stretched thinness and
fluctuating yellow. I am afraid I know of no way to precisely
define this line, it stretches and wanes with moods, temperment,
vocabulary, and intentions. It even varies oddly with perceptions.
It varies most with the relative difference between what one has to
say and what another wants to hear. As long as the line does not
look to anyone like a wall, no-one is bound. Of course, some prefer
bondage.
FidoNews 11-25 Page: 18 20 Jun 1994
Q: Have you been awake since 4:00 a.m. reading mail?
A: Yes.
A: Sounds like it. Go eat something. Go back to bed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What is a "First Among Equals" ?
What is a "First Among Equals" ?
By Anonymous, somewhere within fidonet.org
Were you aware that FidoNet is presently without an International
Coordinator? Were you aware that none of the 6 standing Zone
Coordinators want the job? What to do?
According to Policy4, the International Coordinator must be the,
"First Among Equals" Zone Coordinator and selected by the ZCs.
So... under what guidelines should the ZCs select an IC?
Do you think it appropriate that if none of the standing ZCs wants the
job that choosing from a past ZC would be appropriate? How about if
the past ZC had resigned his position due to burnout? Would he still
be acceptable? How about if he had new commercial interests that may
tarnish his decision making process? Would he still be acceptable?
And how about P4 which seems to imply that the IC must come from the
'present' ZC rank and file?
Do you think that perhaps the ZCs should confer with their RCs in this
case? P4 also states that Zone Coordinators are selected by
the Regional Coordinators in that zone. Would that imply that the ZCs
should fall back to the RCs for input?
I really don't know what to suggest, but I do suggest that if you have
an opinion on this matter, please make it known to your Zone
Coordinator and/or Region Coordinator. This is not a hypothetical
situation. It describes the present situation exactly.
It seems that any direction that the Zone Coordinator Counsel decides
upon will be something other than by the "letter" of Policy4. Since
it appears that they have to "wing it", I'm sure they'd appreciate
your input. Shouldn't they have already asked you for it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
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Fidonews Information
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FidoNews 11-25 Page: 19 20 Jun 1994
------- FIDONEWS MASTHEAD AND CONTACT INFORMATION ----------------
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Tom Jennings
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FidoNews 11-25 Page: 20 20 Jun 1994
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Asked what she thought of "civilization", Dear Madam Emilia said:
"Civilization is a fine dance on an uneven floor with everyone in costume."
-- END
----------------------------------------------------------------------
