F I D O  N E W S --                   Vol.10  No.35    (30-Aug-1993)
+----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
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|  FidoNet BBS community     |         Published by:                   |
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|        _`@/_ \    _        |       Editors:                          |
|       |     | \   \\       |         Sylvia Maxwell    1:221/194     |
|       | (*) |  \   ))      |         Donald Tees       1:221/192     |
|       |__U__| /  \//       |         Tim Pozar         1:125/555     |
|        _//|| _\   /        |                                         |
|       (_/(_|(____/         |                                         |
|             (jm)           |      Newspapers should have no friends. |
|                            |                     -- JOSEPH PULITZER  |
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
========================================================================
                         Table of Contents
========================================================================

1.  Editorial.....................................................  2
2.  Articles......................................................  2
     Zone 1 Echopol - Introduction to the new draft..............  2
     Zone 1 Backbone Echomail Policy - proposed Draft............  3
     The Church of Elvis......................................... 19
     The Simulation & Gaming Echo, filling a gap................. 24
     Standards?  We don't need no steekin' Standard!............. 25
     SEX -- HOW TO GET IT ON THE NET!............................ 26
     "ZIP as FidoNet Standard Archiver".......................... 28
     "Tired of People Misusing Policy?  Use It Yourself!"........ 30
     HST and ZYX Nodelist Flags.................................. 32
     *** The RC 24 @FidoClassic is elected ***................... 32
     This is Matt Giwer speaking................................. 49
     CONTROLLING ECHO ACTIVITY................................... 51
     ARJ, ZIP, et al stupidity................................... 53
     NEWSLETTERS AND THE FIDONET................................. 53
3.  Fidonews Information.......................................... 54
FidoNews 10-35                 Page:  2                    30 Aug 1993


========================================================================
                             Editorial
========================================================================
  You may notice a lack of articles about the holy war in this
issue.  We received SO many jousts and rebuttals, that we're not
printing any of them.  Thanks to all participants for providing an
enjoyable spectacle.

  Personally, I could never figure out why someone would want to
carry an echo moderated by someone they did not like.  It is a bit
like going to a party hosted by someone that you cannot stand, and
then complaining because you did not enjoy yourself.  Maybe they
just go because they like to pick fights.  Maybe they think that
anything they do not like is a threat to them.  Perhaps they are
just control freaks.  If an old hippy may offer some advice, hang
out with people you like.  It is more fun, and you will digest your
food better.

  On another note, the week here has been spent converting a
wretched old fence in one of Kitchener's seedier neighbourhoods
(the one we live in), into an art gallery.  It has been a bit of a
revelation to this spectator.  I have had wino's come up and give
me poigniant speaches about the human condition, and police officers
make cracks that were worthy of a nine-year-old smart-ass.  Ten foot
tall toughs have said how much they appreciated the work, while
a seemingly harmless couple mistook an art reporter for an undercover
police officer and rather violently grabbed his camera to arrest his
picture taking.  A small boy in a baseball cap stole one of the
paintings.

  People are endlessly fascinating, and that, after all, is what
Fidonet is all about.  Anything that limits the eclecticism of the
participants can only be for the worse.
========================================================================
                              Articles
========================================================================
Zone 1 Echopol - Introduction to the new draft

ZONE 1 ECHOPOL - INTRODUCTION TO THE NEW DRAFT

by Adrian Walker 1:153/752
Echopol Committee Chairman

This Zone 1 Echomail Policy is an attempt to document the way the Zone
1 echomail backbone operates.  The intent is to gain consistency in
the decisions which are made, thereby helping to make the backbone as
fair and smooth in operation as possible.  It is not a rework of
previous Echopol documents, but a completely new text.

This is not a finished document.

It is a draft of the best ideas of the Echopol Committee appointed in
May 1993 by the Z1EC, and the results were then reviewed and amended
by the 10 Z1 RECs in August.  Detailed input has been received from
FidoNews 10-35                 Page:  3                    30 Aug 1993

across the zone from sysops, moderators, coordinators, and hubs, and
while we feel the last 3 months have yielded a very workable document,
it now has to be tailored to reflect accurately the way Zone 1 sysops
want their backbone echomail system to operate.

The ZEC has agreed to the use of the Z1_ELECTION echo for discussion
of this Echopol draft, and while it is planned that an RC review and
final zone-wide voting will take place in October, this date is only a
projection as long as there is a need for further public discussion.

The nature of the final vote has been left open for a concensus to
emerge from public sysop discussion.  The options include a full vote
of the thousands of Zone 1 sysops participating in backbone echomail,
or a vote by the 375 Zone NECs on behalf of their Nets, or a vote by
the 10 RECs on behalf of their regions, and a variety of other
options.  No doubt the mechanics of counting the vote will play a part
in how the concensus is arrived at.

The main thing now is to gather constructive ideas from everyone to
make it a better document - one which provides the minimum level of
restriction needed -  to keep the echomail distribution running
effectively - to give a balance between the needs and responsibilities
of moderators, sysops, and echomail coordinators - and to provide the
basis for fair decisions in handling problems relating to echomail.

Let's make this a team effort.


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Zone 1 Backbone Echomail Policy - proposed Draft

ZONE 1 BACKBONE ECHOMAIL POLICY - DRAFT

by the Zone 1 Echopol Committee
1:153/752

This document is the second draft of a revised ECHOPOL prepared by the
Zone 1 Echopol Committee, and reviewed by all Zone 1 RECs.

                         TABLE OF CONTENTS

1.  OVERVIEW

1.0  Basis of policy
1.1  Purpose of policy
1.2  Backbone goal
1.3  Agreement
1.4  Amendments

2.  APPOINTMENTS

2.0  Zone Echomail Coordinator (ZEC)
2.1  Region Echomail Coordinator (REC)
2.2  Net Echomail Coordinator (NEC)
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2.3  Zone Echomail Hubs (ZHubs)
2.4  Region Echomail Hubs (RHubs)
2.5  Net Echomail Hubs (NHubs)
2.6  Conference Moderators (Moderators)
2.7  Nodelist Designations

3.  ORGANIZATION

3.0  Backbone Echo lists
3.1  Autonomy of Regions and Nets
3.2  Guarantees
3.3  Echomail Coordinator Removal
3.4  Moderator recognition & authority

4.  DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM

4.0  Participation
4.1  Charging for distribution
4.2  Restricted distribution
4.3  Cross-Net/Region feeds
4.4  Emergency backup planning
4.5  Advanced technology feeds
4.6  Security

5.  CONTENT

5.0  Routing of echomail & Netmail
5.1  InterNetwork goals
5.2  Encryption
5.3  Routed files

6.  SOFTWARE STANDARDS

6.0  Technical references
6.1  Monitoring responsibility
6.2  Message Size

7.  DISPUTES

7.0  Use of judgement
7.1  Complaint settling
7.2  Wilful disregard
7.3  Sanctions
7.4  Removal of echoes for cause
7.5  Feed cuts
7.6  Moderator appeal committee

8.  DEFINITIONS

8.0  Backbone
8.1  Backbone Echolist
8.2  CRP
8.3  Downlink
8.4  Echo
8.5  FidoNet Policy
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8.6  Gateway
8.7  Illegal
8.8  International Echolist
8.9  Low and high ASCII characters
8.10 Routine Operating Information (R.O.I.)
8.11 Secure mail
8.12 Secure node
8.13  *EC

     ---------------------------------------------------------

                      GENERAL ECHOMAIL POLICY

1. OVERVIEW

1.0  Basis of policy

This Echomail Policy document (Echopol) has been drafted by the
Echomail Coordinators to extend but not contradict FidoNet Policy as
intended by Sections 1 and 9.9 of Policy 4.  Should any part of this
document be in disagreement with the FidoNet Policy current at the
time of dispute, that policy shall take precedence.  Terms used in
this document are defined in Section 8.

1.1  Purpose of policy

This document establishes the echomail policy for the FidoNet echomail
Backbone (Zone 1).  Its purpose is to define, standardize and provide
guidance for decisions required in the operation of the Backbone
echomail distribution system, and to define the Echomail Coordinator
structure .  This policy applies only to services provided by the
Backbone such as echomail listed on the Backbone Echolist, and Netmail
routed through the Backbone.

1.2  Backbone goal

The Backbone was designed to simplify the distribution of echomail at
the Zone level.  Its purpose is to promote communication in echomail
conferences in a lawful, friendly manner consistent with the general
principles of FidoNet.

1.3  Agreement

Any node accepting a feed of Backbone echomail or routing netmail
through the Backbone agrees to the provisions of this policy.  All
Echomail Coordinators will ensure that downlinks receiving a Backbone
feed are educated concerning this policy.

Since FidoNet is an amateur network promoting communication, all
messages entered onto any FidoNet Backbone echo are considered to be
in the public domain unless the echo has been defined by the moderator
as 'closed' or 'restricted'.

1.4  Amendments

FidoNews 10-35                 Page:  6                    30 Aug 1993

Amendments to all or part of Echopol are ratified by a simple majority
of Zone 1 <sysops/NECs/RECs> casting votes in a policy referendum.

Suggestions for amendment to Echopol may be submitted at any time to
the ZEC or to an REC who will present the proposal to the RECs for
discussion.  The ZEC will call a policy referendum either on the
request of 5% of Zone 1 sysops presented to the ZEC or if a majority
of RECs request a referendum.  Multiple amendments may be considered
during a single referendum, but will be voted on individually.

Changes to this policy are to be made as follows:

  Draft amendment published in FidoNews for comment
  Public discussion in Zone-wide echo for minimum of three weeks
  RECs review and recommend any changes to revised draft
  RCs review for impact on general policy and recommend any changes
  Final draft published in FidoNews
  Zone-wide vote by all <sysops/NECs/RECs> to accept/reject revision
  Results published in FidoNews

Where Echopol makes reference to a specific version of FidoNet Policy
or to a specific paragraph within that document, if such version or
paragraph number changes, the ZEC may without further approval or vote
update Echopol to reflect the altered number provided that the
original sense of the paragraph referred to has not significantly
changed.

To allow for timely modification of routine procedures, the ZEC may
direct that a Zone 1 Backbone Routine Operating Information (R.O.I.)
document be established.  Drafting and modification of an R.O.I.
document is subject only to approval by a majority vote of RECs.

2. APPOINTMENTS

2.0  Zone Echomail Coordinator (ZEC)

The ZEC is responsible for coordination of echomail, routing, and
schedules at the Zone level to ensure reliable and efficient
availability of Backbone echoes while avoiding creation of duplicate
messages.

The ZEC is appointed by the ZC on the advice of the Zone 1 RECs and
acts as Chairman of the council of RECs.  The ZEC should be actively
involved in hubbing echomail in order that he remain in touch with
routine hubbing issues.

2.1  Region Echomail Coordinator (REC)

An REC is responsible for coordination of echomail, routing and
schedules at the Region level to ensure reliable and efficient
availability of Backbone echoes while avoiding creation of duplicate
messages.  The REC is responsible for the technical integrity of all
echomail sent from his Region into the Backbone system regardless of a
Net's feed source.

FidoNews 10-35                 Page:  7                    30 Aug 1993

An REC is appointed by that Region's RC on the advice of the regional
NECs.  An REC should be actively involved in hubbing echomail in order
that he remain in touch with routine hubbing issues.

2.2  Net Echomail Coordinator (NEC)

An NEC is responsible for coordination of echomail, routing and
schedules at the Net level to ensure reliable and efficient
availability of Backbone echoes while avoiding creation of duplicate
messages.  The NEC is responsible for the technical integrity of all
echomail sent from his Net into the Backbone system regardless of a
node's feed source.

An NEC is appointed by that Net's NC on the advice of the Net's
sysops.  An NEC should be actively involved in hubbing echomail in
order that he remain in touch with routine hubbing issues.

2.3  Zone Echomail Hubs (ZHubs)

A ZHub distributes echomail at the Zone level, connecting to other
ZHubs as determined by the ZEC and providing a minimum of one
connection to each Region.

A ZHub acts as an unlanned extension of the ZEC's computer system. The
ZHub does not make decisions on feed cuts, echo termination or other
echomail policy matters.

Each ZHub carries all Backbone echoes and appropriate related file
echoes.  Where such a requirement would have an adverse economic
impact on the ZHub, it will pre-arrange any variance from this
requirement with the ZEC.

A ZHub is appointed by the ZEC.

2.4  Region Echomail Hubs (RHubs)

An RHub distributes echomail at the regional level, normally connects
to a ZHub, and provides connections to regional Nets as determined by
the REC for the Region.

Each RHub carries Backbone echoes to the extent deemed appropriate by
the REC and carries such authority on policy matters as the REC may
delegate.

An RHub is appointed by the REC in accordance with regional echomail
policy.

2.5  Net Echomail Hubs (NHubs)

An NHub distributes echomail at the Net level, normally connects to an
RHub, and provides connections to Net sysops as determined by the NEC
for the Net.

Each NHub carries Backbone echoes to the extent deemed appropriate by
the NEC and carries such authority on policy matters as the NEC may
FidoNews 10-35                 Page:  8                    30 Aug 1993

delegate.

An NHub is appointed by the NEC in accordance with Net echomail
policy.

2.6  Conference Moderators (Moderators)

Moderators preside over echoes and are responsible to the ZEC for the
smooth operation of their echoes.  The duties and method of
appointment of Moderators are defined in Section 3.4.

2.7  Nodelist Designations

To prevent an unnecessary burden on the nodelist and to assist in
identifying echomail coordinators, a separate entry for the ZEC, REC
or NEC is not recommended.  Echomail coordinators shall be identified
by the UZEC, UREC, and UNEC user flags on the coordinator's personal
node number entry.

3. ORGANIZATION

3.0  Backbone Echo Lists

The ZEC is responsible for the maintainance of a list of available
echoes at the Zone level (Backbone Echolist).  The ZEC may also
appoint a Zone Echolist Coordinator to be responsible for the
maintenance of a detailed list of echo descriptions (International
Echolist), with terms of reference set out in R.O.I..

3.1  Autonomy of Regions and Nets

Separate policy documents may be issued at the Region or Net level to
provide additional detail on local procedures.  Ordinarily these
lower-level policies may not contradict this policy.  However, with
the approval of the ZEC or REC as appropriate, local policy can be
used to implement differences required due to local conditions.

There is no attempt in this document to determine the distribution
arrangements within individual Nets.  Where policy in this document
relates to Nets it is designed to protect the Backbone technically and
to protect the sysop from unreasonable demands by his Net.

3.2  Guarantees

While the Backbone attempts to provide the best service possible, it
provides no guarantee of mail delivery.  Messages which require
sensitive or timely handling should not be sent through the Backbone.
The receiving of Backbone echomail should in all cases be considered a
privilege, not a right.

3.3  Echomail Coordinator Removal

The ZEC shall be removed from his position by the ZC on the advice of
a simple majority of the Zone 1 RECs.  An REC shall be removed from
his position by his RC on the advice of a simple majority of the
FidoNews 10-35                 Page:  9                    30 Aug 1993

regional NECs.  An NEC shall be removed from his position by his NC on
the advice of a simple majority of the Net sysops. A ZHub may be
removed from his position by the ZEC, an RHub may be removed from his
position by his REC, and an NHub may be removed from his position by
his NEC.

The ZEC, an REC or an NEC may only be removed for failure to carry out
his duties properly as described above, for continued violations of
policy, for gross misconduct, or if he is no longer a member of
FidoNet. With reasonable notice a ZHub, RHub or NHub appointment may
be transferred to allow for development of Zone, Region or Net
expertise in Hubbing.

3.4  Moderator recognition & authority

The Backbone has no desire to interfere with the internal affairs of a
Backbone conference as long as it does not disturb the operation of
the Backbone, either technically, or through dispute.

The Backbone recognizes that a moderator has complete authority over
his/her echo in regards to the echo's policy, standards of conduct and
participation.  When the Backbone places an echo on its distribution
system, the moderator may maintain whatever private distribution or
gating he wishes, provided that this does not adversely affect
Backbone topology, or local CRPs.

A Moderator need not be either a Sysop or a member of FidoNet but must
be readily accessible via netmail through a FidoNet node number.

A Moderator is recognized as follows:

  a.  Upon formation of a conference the person who forms the
      conference is the Moderator.

  b.  Upon resignation or replacement of an existing Moderator the
      conference's rules define how the new Moderator is selected.

  c.  Should a conference which originates inside of FidoNet be
      without a moderator for over thirty days, the ZEC may cause an
      interim Moderator to be appointed for a period of up to 12
      months.  If during that time the original Moderator does not
      return, the appointment shall become permanent.

Where a person takes over official moderation of an echo without the
previous moderator's approval, or in its absence without the ZEC's
approval, such action will be deemed to be excessively annoying.

When the Backbone agrees to carry an echo on the Zone 1 distribution
system, the Moderator in return agrees to the provisions of this
policy and to accept the following responsibilities:

  a.  seeing that messages in the echo correspond to the echo's theme
      as expressed in the International Echolist.

  b.  ensuring that the echo does not distribute or promote illegal
FidoNews 10-35                 Page: 10                    30 Aug 1993

      activities or information.

  c.  updating the echo listing in the International Echolist at
      least every six months.

  d.  monthly posting of echo rules or policy.

  e.  designating a proxy if unable to perform duties for a period of
      more than 10 days.  Moderators are encouraged to appoint
      Co-Moderators to assist them in their responsibilities and to
      stand in for them in their absence.

  f.  authorizing that the feed to a Node be severed if the Moderator
      believes that the Node is violating an echo rule.  Such a
      request will conform to the feed-cut policy of section 7.5
      below.

The ZEC shall remove an echo from the Backbone Echolist upon the
request of the official moderator.

4. DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM

4.0  Participation

All active nodelisted systems are eligible to be considered for a feed
of Backbone echomail unless barred from receiving a feed under the
terms of this policy or Fidonet Policy.

Submission by a node of a request for echomail to its NEC, or
voluntary payment of a cost-recovery plan contribution does not
automatically require that the NEC approve such a feed.  Such approval
will normally be given except where the node has not provided
requested system data or has not met the requirements of a CRP.

A node should allow at least two weeks for a feed request to be
processed.

4.1  Charging for distribution

Cost recovery plans (CRPs) shall be limited to recovering the true
cost of collecting/delivering echomail and may include a reasonable
amount for contingencies.

The Net membership and any other nodes or Nets which contribute to a
CRP shall have the right to reliable public reporting of the cost
recovery balances at reasonable time intervals, but should not expect
formal auditing procedures.

The administrators of a CRP at their option may prohibit any node
which obtains a feed from their distribution system from sub-feeding a
node outside that CRP, but must not require that a node obtain its
echomail only through that CRP.

4.2  Restricted distribution

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If an echo is designated as restricted distribution, no node may feed
that echo to any node not clearly on the distribution list without
specific permission from the moderator of that echo.

4.3  Cross-Net/Region feeds

In general the only inter-Region links are between ZHubs and RHubs.
Experience has shown that the ZHub/RHub/NHub structure minimizes
technical problems associated with circular feeds and promotes minimum
cost to participating systems.

A node or a Net is expected to obtain any desired Backbone echomail
feed from the appropriate NHub or RHub respectively.  Cross-Net or
cross-regional feeds are discouraged due to the known potential for
unrecorded sub-feeds to occur, but may be approved where the cost to a
node is significantly reduced or where the node can obtain Backbone
echomail not available in its Net, in which case the following
criteria will be applied:

  a.  the node or Net must not be attempting to bypass a reasonable
      Net or Region cost recovery plan.

  b.  for nodes, if the feed is out-of-Net, the NECs of all involved
      Nets must approve or disapprove the link based on its technical
      merits.

  c.  for nodes or Nets, if the feed is out-of-Region, the RECs of
      all involved Regions must also approve or disapprove the link
      based on its technical merits.

  d.  any cross-Net or cross-Region echomail feed must dead-end, in
      the case of a node on the node's system, and in the case of a
      Net within that Net (ie, no further re-distribution).

4.4  Emergency backup planning

To allow the Backbone distribution system to continue to operate with
a minimum of disruption in the event of long-term power failures,
equipment failures or loss of volunteers, the ZEC will coordinate an
emergency backup plan for the ZHubs.

It is recommended that each REC maintain a regional emergency backup
plan.

4.5  Advanced technology feeds

The use of advanced technology (eg: satellite feeds) which
substantially alters the distribution or cost of Backbone echomail
feeds will be subject to prior coordination with the appropriate NECs
and RECs of the nodes involved.

This provision is not intended to restrict the implementation of new
technology but rather to ensure that unforeseen distribution methods
are adequately examined for their implications prior to use.

FidoNews 10-35                 Page: 12                    30 Aug 1993

In general, any legal form of distribution technology which lowers
costs, and improves speed of communication, while avoiding circular
feeds which cause duplicate messages, will be encouraged.  Details for
handling specific types of distribution methods will be specified in
R.O.I.

4.6  Security

To prevent deliberate disruption of echoes by various forms of mail
dumping, each ZHub, RHub and NHub must operate in a secure manner so
that only mail arriving from nodes with which distribution
arrangements have been pre-arranged is processed automatically.

Any reasonable method of ensuring that insecure mail does not enter
the Backbone without review is acceptable, such as software capable of
separating the mail automatically, subroutines prepared by the hub,
packet-level passwords, visual examination or other methods.

An echomail hub may choose not to accept inbound mail from a downlink
which does not operate as a secure node, but at its discretion may
continue to feed Backbone mail to that downlink.

5. CONTENT

5.0  Routing of echomail & netmail

Due to the costs involved echomail is not normally routed.  Routing of
echomail without prior agreement between all nodes involved in the
routing is considered annoying.

The Backbone accepts and delivers Echomail Routed netmail (ERN) at all
levels above the Net level, and all Region and Zone Hubs agree to
support such routing.  It is understood that some Nets may choose not
to include outgoing netmail with their echomail transfers, but in such
cases the Net should make arrangements for disposition of incoming ERN
from the appropriate RHub.

5.1  Inter-network goals

It is the general policy of FidoNet to encourage communication between
FidoNet and all other networks through the development of
inter-network echoes.  Inter-network echoes shall conform to the
provisions of this policy while being distributed by the Backbone.

The ZEC may direct that an echomail gateway operating procedures
document be established to provide a technical base for increasing
contact between various networks.  Drafting and modification of a
gateway operating procedures document is subject only to approval by a
majority vote of RECs.

5.2  Encryption

The language of FidoNet is English, and all Backbone echomail traffic
must be in this language unless the echo moderator specifies
otherwise.
FidoNews 10-35                 Page: 13                    30 Aug 1993


All Backbone echomail and Backbone-routed netmail messages must be in
human-readable language.  None of the text may be encoded, encrypted,
enciphered or otherwise rendered unreadable;  it must be possible for
all sysops through whose systems the messages are routed to read each
message or part thereof without having to use any form of special
program or treatment.

The use of high or low ASCII characters is not permitted in the
header, tearline, or origin line of a message.

Echo moderators may permit high or low ASCII characters in the body of
the message only if they have so indicated in the International
Echolist.  Moderators may also approve the inclusion of small segments
of code and/or of uuencoded (or equivalent) text, but are subject to
Backbone judgement as to when these segments become excessive and are
limited by the section in this policy on routed files.

A sysop has the right to require that the originator of any apparently
encrypted or otherwise unreadable message being routed through his
system provide him with satisfactory evidence that the message is
neither commercial nor illegal in content.

5.3  Routed files

Due to the large size and additional cost of transmission the Backbone
does not accept routed files.  It accepts no responsibility for
returning such files or for advising the originator of their
non-transmission.

For the above reason uuencoded or similar message-format files are
considered to be routed files and are therefore treated as described
above.  Short pieces of programming code, no longer than a typical
message and infrequently sent, may be routed subject to any
restrictions provided by individual echo rules.

The Backbone distributes essential administrative files containing
information on echo areas.  These files are regularly routed to all
mail hubs for public distribution.  All Backbone systems have agreed
to transport these files.  The current names of the files, the file
areas and the routing software used are listed in R.O.I..

6. SOFTWARE STANDARDS

6.0  Technical references

Current technical standards for Backbone echomail and routed netmail
are detailed in R.O.I..

When handling Backbone echomail the use of echomail software which
does not conform to the above standard is considered annoying.

6.1  Monitoring responsibility

To reduce costs and system malfunctions for sysops participating in
FidoNews 10-35                 Page: 14                    30 Aug 1993

the Backbone distribution system, proven message tracking or
monitoring software may be employed by echomail hubs at all levels.
This may include the use of 'grunged message' detection software and
the return or notified-deletion of damaged or out-of-specification
messages.

6.2  Message Size

Due to the limitations of older software the Backbone can not
guarantee delivery of long messages.

The currently accepted maximum message size handled by ZHubs is
specified in R.O.I..  Downlinks and software programmers are
encouraged to use this standard so that all messages up to this length
are routed without interruption.

7. DISPUTES

7.0  Use of judgement

The application of Echomail policy in the resolution of disputes
requires the use of good judgement by the echomail coordinators
involved.  Decisions should be made in a consistent manner with a
genuine attempt made to obtain both sides of any issue.

Where this policy does not appear to forsee a particular situation the
echomail coordinator is expected to use a combination of this policy,
FidoNet Policy, precedent and his own good judgement to resolve a
dispute.

7.1  Complaint settling

Complaints referred to in this section (7) are those dealing with
technical issues where a decision may be made under the terms of this
Echomail Policy.  If a complaint is filed under the terms of FidoNet
Policy it must be referred instead to the appropriate NC, RC or ZC for
resolution.

Where a node is unable to obtain satisfactory handling of an echomail
complaint from his NEC he may address the complaint to his Region's
REC and failing a satisfactory response from the REC, he may address
the complaint to the ZEC.

7.2  Wilful disregard

A person who engages in disruptive behaviour such as posting multiple
copies of identical messages or flooding an echo with messages to
render communication difficult or to increase costs will be considered
excessively annoying.

A person who alters quoted extracts in an echomail message so as to
misrepresent the original author's text will be considered annoying.

7.3  Sanctions

FidoNews 10-35                 Page: 15                    30 Aug 1993

The only sanction which may be applied to a node by an echomail
coordinator for contravention of this policy is removal of its access
to Backbone services such as echomail and outgoing routed netmail
feeds. Any situation which is believed to warrant stronger action such
as a node being considered 'excessively annoying' will be referred to
the *C chain for a decision.

The only sanctions which may be applied to users by a Backbone echo
moderator for contravention of the echo's rules are requests for
apology, restrictions of echo privileges, or feed cuts.  Any other
sanction applied by a moderator may be grounds for removal of the echo
from the Backbone, as detailed in section 7.4 c..

7.4  Removal of echoes for cause

An echo may be removed from Backbone distribution by the ZEC in the
following cases:

  a.  inadequate traffic or distribution.
  b.  carriage of commercial or illegal content.
  c.  unwillingness of the moderator to abide by Echopol.
  d.  inability of the moderator to accept or respond to netmail.
  e.  moderator behaviour judged excessively annoying.

The ZEC may remove an echo automatically in the case of a. above.
Removal for any other reason requires the prior approval of a majority
of RECs and evidence that the moderator has been given sufficient
warning and an opportunity to present his point of view to the ZEC.

7.5  Feed cuts

To ensure fairness to both the Moderator and the users of an echo,
where a Moderator wishes to terminate a user's participation for
violation of the echo's published rules, the Moderator will send
netmail to the user's Sysop with a copy to the Sysop's NEC directing
that the user's access to the echo be severed.  This netmail will
include:

  a.  instructions to cut the access for a specific user.

  b.  copy of the echo rules section which was violated.

  c.  copy of the user's message(s) which constituted the initial
      violation.

  d.  copy of the Moderator's subsequent warning to the user not to
      repeat the violation.

  e.  copy of the user's repeat violation.

Where the violation is of sufficient seriousness to warrant no
warning, provisions d. and e. above may be disregarded.  This should
be an unusual occurrence.

Provided that all of this evidence is attached the Sysop will
FidoNews 10-35                 Page: 16                    30 Aug 1993

immediately and without question terminate the user's access as
directed.  If he/she fails to do so the NEC will terminate the Sysop's
feed of the echo.  If the NEC fails to terminate the sysop's feed the
REC will terminate the NHub's feed.  If the REC fails to terminate the
NHub's feed the ZEC will terminate the RHub's feed.

Knowingly feeding an echo to a Node whose feed has been cut for
violations of this policy or at the request of the Moderator, is
considered annoying.

Appeals of feed-cut instructions which contain the above evidence may
be made only after the feed-cut has been honoured.

7.6  Moderator appeal committee

The ZEC may appoint and act as Chairman of a Moderator Appeal
Committee which hears complaints or appeals from users, moderators and
coordinators relating to the moderation of Backbone echoes.  The
committee's members may include moderators and coordinators. Current
membership will be detailed in R.O.I..

The committee may make recommendations to the ZEC for resolution of
disputes concerning:

    a.  sysops or users removed from echoes by moderators.

    b.  NHubs removed from echoes by RECs.

    c.  RHubs removed from echoes by the ZEC.

    d.  echoes removed from Backbone distribution for reasons other
        than low traffic or demand.

The committee may only make recommendations with respect to appeals
brought before it.  It should not originate policy for moderators or
coordinators.

The committee's recommendation for resolution of each issue will
normally be accepted by the ZEC.  Since the Backbone attaches its
name, distribution system, and funding arrangements to Backbone
echoes, if the moderator of an echo involved in such a dispute
disagrees with the ZEC's decision, the ZEC may recommend removal of
such an echo from the Backbone in accordance with Section 7.4.  This
will allow the moderator the freedom to operate the echo without
further reference to this policy.

8. DEFINITIONS

8.0  Backbone

The Backbone echomail distribution system (the 'Backbone'), to which
this policy applies, incorporates all Zone, regional and Net level
distribution as well as inter-regional and inter-Net links of Backbone
echomail.  The distribution system includes Backbone coordinators,
echomail conferences, conference moderators, and distribution
FidoNews 10-35                 Page: 17                    30 Aug 1993

arrangements.

8.1  Backbone Echolist

The Backbone Echolist is a listing of area tag names for all current
Backbone echomail conferences, and is maintained in a format usable
for automatic processing of feed requests.

8.2  CRP

A Cost Recovery Plan (CRP) is a non-profit cost-sharing arrangement
agreed to by nodes directly participating in an echomail delivery
arrangement in which phone and other direct costs of importing and
distributing echomail are shared by all members of the system.

8.3  Downlink

A downlink is a system, whether node or hub at any level, which
receives Backbone mail from a distribution source above it (its
uplink).

8.4  Echo

An Echo, also called an Echomail Conference, or Conference, is a
message base or forum distributed under a specified echo name, or TAG,
dealing with a defined area of interest.

8.5  FidoNet Policy

The current ratified FidoNet Policy is Policy 4 and is referred to in
this document as FidoNet Policy.

8.6  Gateway

A gateway is a system of computers equipped to pass electronic  mail
messages of various types between FidoNet and a non-FidoNet network.
A Gateway acts as a translator, allowing messages entered on a system
in the other network and addressed to a destination within FidoNet to
be translated into a form which is technically acceptable to and
compatible with FidoNet, and vice versa.

8.7  Illegal

In addition to illegal behaviour referred to in FidoNet Policy, the
term 'illegal' in this document will be taken as referring to
behaviour considered illegal in the jurisdiction of the coordinator,
hub, sysop or moderator who must take responsibility for such
behaviour.  It is recognized that this definition will result in
varying definitions of 'illegal' depending on the location of the
person on whom such responsibility rests.

8.8  International Echolist

The International Echolist is an informal, international listing of
Echomail conferences as described and submitted by each conference's
FidoNews 10-35                 Page: 18                    30 Aug 1993

moderator.  It contains descriptions and other data for all Backbone
and many non-Backbone echoes.

8.9  Low and high ASCII characters

In this document, high ASCII characters are considered the Eight-bit
characters (ASCII 128-255), while low ASCII characters are considered
the non-printing low-order codes (ASCII 2-31), with the exception of
the 8Dh(soft <CR> character).

8.10  Routine Operating Information (R.O.I.)

The Zone 1 Backbone Routine Operating Information (R.O.I.) file
provides functional details for the application of this Policy and
normally contain non-policy matters to clarify, standardize, or ensure
smoothness in the Backbone's distribution system.

8.11  Secure mail

Secure mail is considered to be mail (netmail or echomail) received
from nodes with which distribution arrangements have been
pre-arranged, thereby providing greater assurance that the sender has
authorized access to Backbone echomail areas or other services.

8.12  Secure node

A secure node is one which processes inbound mail automatically only
from nodes with which prior agreement has been made to accept such
mail.

8.13  *EC

For the purpose of the Zone 1 Backbone echomail system, the term '*EC'
refers to the Zone 1 ZEC, RECs, and NECs.  It does not refer to any
Hub or to any other use of the term 'Echomail Coordinator'.

     ---------------------------------------------------------
     "FidoNet" is a U.S. registered trademark of Tom Jennings.
     ---------------------------------------------------------

Echopol Committee:

Adrian Walker     153/752                Miles Hoover      109/25
Tony Wagner       105/2                  John Mudge        352/111
Larry Squire      3620/2                 Mark Astarita     2605/10
Dixon Kenner      243/5                  Dallas Hinton     153/715
Michael Walsh     273/10                 Dave James        209/209

                          ---ooo000ooo---
FidoNews 10-35                 Page: 19                    30 Aug 1993


The Church of Elvis

                --=== THE CHURCH OF ELVIS ===--

Preface and Preamble:

      "If there is any fixed star in our constitutional
       constellation, it is that NO official, high or petty, can
       prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics,
       nationalism, religion or other matters of opinion or
       force citizens to  confess by word or act their faith
       therein. If there ARE any circumstances  which permit an
       exception, they do not now occur to us."

       Ref: U.S.Supreme Court (1943) West Virginia State Board
       of Education v. Barnette, 319 US 624.

                  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
               "XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXV,,.
            "/XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX",
          ,"XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX  XXXXXXXXXXXXXX",
         ,"XXXX//        /X/    //////XXXXXXXXXXX",
       ,"XXXXXXX  XXXX   XXXX  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX"",
       XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX",
      XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX",
     /XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXV,
    /"XXXXXXXXXXX X X   XXXXX  XX XX       XXXXXXXXXXXXXV,
    /"XXX X X X XXX X  X   XXX   X XX    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXV,
    /"XXX X X X XXX X XX  X XX    XXXXX   XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXV,
    /"XXX XX XX XXXX XXXX XX XX  XXXX    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXV,
    /,XXXX XX X XX X X X XXX XX   XXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXV,
    //XXX  XXX X XXXX XX   X       XX X XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXV,
    //XXX  XXX X XXXXX XX           XXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXV,
     /XX   XXX X XXXXXX XX           XXXX  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXV
     /XX     XXXXX  XXX X             XXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXV
     /XX      XXXXX   XXX               XXX   XXXXXXXXXXXXXV,
    //XX       XXXXX    XX               XX   XXXXXXXXXXXXXV,
    //XX         XXXX    XX                X   XXXXXXXXXXXXV,
    //X            XXX    X                    XXXXXXXXXXXXXV
     /X              XX                         XXXXXXXXXXXXV
     /X                     ,,,,,XXXXXXX,,       XXXXXXXXXXXV
     /XXXXXXXXXX,         "XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX      XXXXXXXXXXXV
     /X"        ""                        ""     XXXXX    XXV
      H ,""""""""",,        ,"""""""""",,        XXXX    XXX
      "   ""   """ /          ""     ""          XXXX /  XX
      "      "    //                             XXX //  XX
      "           //                             XXX  /  XX
       "          //                            /XXX /  XX
       "          //                            /XXX    XX
       "         ///                            /XXX / XXX
       "        ///          ,,                /XXXXXXXXX
       "        //           /                /XXXXXXXXXX
        "         """  ""                    /XXXXXXXXX/  "
         ",       ,,,, ,,,,                                  ,
FidoNews 10-35                 Page: 20                    30 Aug 1993

          "     ""IIII IIIIIIII"",               // /     /  "
           "       """"""""""""  "                //     /    "
            "      ,         ,"              // /     //       "
            "       "IIIWWIII"           //  // /      /     /  ",
             "         """"            ///   / /      /    / /   ",
          //  "                      ////  // /     /       //    "
         //    "                    ////  / /    //         /    "",
       //   /   ",                  "// /  /    /         //       "
     //    /     ",               //////  /   //         //        "
    //      /      ",               // //    //         //        """
 //        / ""    "    "       ""///     /        //         "    "
//        //  ""   ""         "/ /      /       //                 "
//           ",  ","",       ","   /    //      //                  ""

                       ELVIS thinks you're NEAT!

   %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
   %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
   %%%                                                         %%%
   %%%    U N I V E R S A L      L I F E      C H U R C H      %%%
   %%%    International Headquarters * Modesto California      %%%
   %%%                                                         %%%
   %%%                                                         %%%
   %%%    It is hereby declared that   ELVIS ARON PRESLEY      %%%
   %%%                                                         %%%
   %%%    has been named        S A I N T          of the      %%%
   %%%                                                         %%%
   %%%    Universal Life Church this day of November 8, 1988   %%%
   %%%                                                         %%%
   %%%                                                         %%%
   %%%        U L C                                            %%%
   %%%       S E A L        Signed: Kirby J. Hensley, D.D.     %%%
   %%%        I H Q                 President                  %%%
   %%%                                                         %%%
   %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
   %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

    Upon duly submitted and approved petition to the International
    Headquarters of the Universal Life Church, Inc., Elvis Aron
    Presley was named Saint of the Universal Life Church in
    November, 1988.  The petition to the church read as follows:

        Elvis exhibited faith and hope when, as a youngster,
        he pursued his talent as an entertainer despite the
        odds against rising from his humble beginnings. He
        exhibited charity by his obvious and documented
        generosity. All of these attributes of character are
        believed to have been present to an extraordinary
        degree by his followers.

  *****************************************************************

                     ECCLESIASTICAL PROCLAMATION

    WHEREAS the beliefs on matters of death and resurrection are
FidoNews 10-35                 Page: 21                    30 Aug 1993

            especially promulgated during the weekend of the
            First Sunday after the first full moon after the
            Vernal Equinox, and

    WHEREAS these concepts are so closely tied by many in many
            churches to ancient ceremonies of fertility and
            symbolized by Bunnies and Eggs and other esoteric
            symbols of rebirth and new life, and

    WHEREAS the promise of eternal life was extended to everyone
            as far back as 1939 (or even earlier, to hear some
            tell it) and that possibility is recognized by lots
            of folks, and

    WHEREAS the Saturday prior to the Sunday mentioned above has
            heretofore remained generally unclaimed, unnamed,
            and uncelebrated, now,

    THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the Saturday before the First
            Sunday after the first full moon after the Vernal
            Equinox be proclaimed and known as ELVIS SATURDAY
            from this day forward, and be celebrated by the
            faithful in joyous recognition of all Spring
            Festivals associated with rebirth and fertility with
            the eternal melodies of St. Elvis Aron Presley, who
            lives forever in the eternal present.

                     Wherefore I have set my mark and caused to be
                     affixed the seal of the Church of Elvis ULC
                     on this 14th day of April, 1990.

                                       Signed by the Bishop .
                                     Saturday, April 14, 1990

   ----------------------------------------------------------------

                           THERE's MORE!!!

         The CHURCH OF ELVIS is a sect of the Universal Life
               Church and is looking for new ministers.

                          ABOUT MINISTERHOOD

-- Is This For Real?

Yes, it is.  The Universal Life Church will ordain anyone, for
life, no questions asked, and at no cost.  The ordination is
legally valid, and, after registering with local authorities, ULC
Ministers can legally perform weddings, funerals, baptisms, etc.

-- But I Have To Believe In Something Silly, Right?

Nope.  The ULC doesn't impose ANY beliefs on it's Ministers or
their congregations.  Your god is OK.  Period.

FidoNews 10-35                 Page: 22                    30 Aug 1993

-- Am I Making Any Promises?

Only one.  A ULC Minister agrees to do what's "right".  You get
to interpret "right" to your satisfaction.  No one will call to
ask for money.  You're not joining a "cult."  You're welcome
(encouraged!) to continue practicing whatever faith you like.
ULC Ministers are also Catholics, Episcopalians, Methodists,
ELVIS Worshippers... you name it.

-- So How Do I Become Ordained?

Easy.  Just fill out the simple form below, or call
CompuChurch (tm) and go to the Santuary then to the Altar
Your info will be processed by CompuChurch (tm)
International Headquarters.  CompuChurch will file your request
with the ULC, and you'll receive your credentials within a
coupla weeks.  It's free, but we could use a stamp! Canadian Pilgrims
could send 2 stamps!

-- Still A Little Wary?

There's more information on the ULC at any CompuChurch (tm)
Chartered BBS, from The Church of Elvis or from CompuChurch (tm)
International Headquarters, 1:3800/6 or call direct at (504) 927-
4509.

BBSes are filled with ULC Ministers from all walks of life. Join
us!

  -----------------------------------------------------------------

* MAKE ME A MINISTER!

Yes, this all sounds wonderful. I want to be a minister, fully
ordained and authorized to do anything ministers usually do, and
entitled to the privileges and benefits extended to the clergy.

           Name:
                  ----------------------------------------------

        Address:
                  ----------------------------------------------

 City State Zip:
                  ----------------------------------------------

I am enclosing a postage stamp or two to make life easier for you!

 SEND TO:
                        Church of Elvis
          Diocese of Baton Rouge Universal Life Church
                         P.O.Box 64575
                     Baton Rouge, LA  70896

-----------------------------------------------------------------
FidoNews 10-35                 Page: 23                    30 Aug 1993


   A Certified True Copy of the original certificate of
   Sainthood issued under the seal of the Church of Elvis ULC,
   and signed by the Pastor and the Prophet of Elvis is
   available, along with a copy of the Proclamation of Elvis
   Saturday, if requested, for a $5 donation payable to
   Universal Life Church sent to the address above.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
* SPECIAL TITLES

Special Titles are offered for a minimum donation of $5.00.
Below is a list of special titles currently being offered:

Bishop               Magus               Monsignor
Healing Minister     Missionary          Pastor General
Cardinal             Elder               Lama
Apostle of Humility  Right Reverend      Guru
Deacon               Flying Missionary   Archpriest
Preceptor            Colonel             Missionary
Doctor               Sister Soul         Therapist
Archbishop           Evangelist          Friar
Metropolitan         Abbot               Thanatologist
Reverend Mother      Free Thinker        Arch Deacon
Hadji                Brahman             High Priest
Rabbi                Abbess              Parochial Educator
Scribe               Monk                Priest
Religious Preacher   Cure                Universal Rabbi
Most Reverend        Preacher            Swami
Angel                Ascetic Gnostic     Dervish
Universal Rabbi      Brother             Mother Superior
Father               Chaplain            Anada
Abbe                 Lay Sister          Archcardinal
Rector               Orthodox Monk       Druid
Starets              Reverend Father     Missionary of Music
The Very Esteemed    Prophet             High Priestess
Minister of Music    Iman                Shaman
Righteous Brother    Messenger           Mystical Philosopher
Universal Religious Philosopher
Universal Philosopher of Absolute Reality

If you do not see the title you want, write us. New titles are
approved every day!

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                   Special Title of Sainthood

Do you know a "Saint" personally?  Do you know someone who has
exercised the three theological virtues - faith, hope, and
charity - to an extraordinary degree?  If so you may bestow
"Sainthood" within the ULC upon this beloved person.  Merely
write with your reasons for bestowing Sainthood upon the
individual and include a donation of $5.00.  The handsome
certificate of Sainthood will be sent directly to you, or you may
have the degree sent to the recipient.
FidoNews 10-35                 Page: 24                    30 Aug 1993


-----------------------------------------------------------------

                  Distributed by The Church of Elvis
                                 and
             CompuChurch (tm) International Headquarters
                             504-927-4509
                           FidoNet 1:3800/6

                  For Information, send S.A.S.E to:
                         The Church of Elvis
    c/o The Episcopal Offices of the Archdiocese of Cyberspace
             Attention Archbishop C.A.Jennings, D.D.
                            P.O.Box 64575
                      Baton Rouge, LA 70896-4575

                   --=== THE CHURCH OF ELVIS ===--

----------------------------------------------------------------------

The Simulation & Gaming Echo, filling a gap

The Simulation & Gaming Echo, filling a gap
by Gerald Todd   1:261/1151

Have you been looking for an echo where simulations didn't have to fly
to be on topic?  Maybe Jill of the Jungle just isn't your cup of tea?
Maybe you have a bold new tactic in Task Force: 1942 to share, or an
alternative strategy for an Advanced Squad Leader scenerio?  Or maybe
you just want to find a local club?  Then you've been looking for
the SIMulation & Gaming echo!

        Tag: SIM
      Title: SIMulation & Gaming
Description: Featuring discussion on; Military Strategy Games, all
             types of simulations, gaming events, club notices,
             opponents wanted, postal & e-mail play, playing hints,
             new products, reviews, game design & research,
             miniatures, want-ads, computer AND non-computer gaming
             & simulation.
  Moderator: Gerald Todd, 1:261/[email protected]
Distribution: Net261 local backbone & private links
For Echo Rules request SIMRULES from moderator system.
For info on links netmail moderator.

FidoNews 10-35                 Page: 25                    30 Aug 1993


Standards?  We don't need no steekin' Standard!
By Steve Lamb
1:203/[email protected]

    There has been quite a few articles posted in the snooze
lately discussion a call for a new standard. Well, here's my
entry into the fray.

   *NO STANDARD IS NEEDED!*

   I'm wondering where all these people are when they get
their echomail a few times a day. I've run DOS and OS/2 and
never ONCE have I used ARC for my echomail. When using DOS it's
ARJ  and  when OS/2 it is lh2, a LHarc port.  All the
tosser/scanners I've used, IMail, FMail, FastEcho, GEcho, Squish
(both OS/2 and DOS) have had the ability to unpack and pack in
ANY FORMAT.

  Let me point out the most important part of that last
paragraph, "the ability to unpack and pack in ANY FORMAT." This
means that those of us who want to use ARJ for mail packing can
send get our mail in ARJ. If someone we feed wants to use ZIP,
LHA, or even ARC we can repack in that format and ship it out.

  Now, here's the concept, the standard we are all pounding
on deals with the nodelist. ARC is the standard compression
because it is the most widely available archiver when it comes
to multi-platform use.  But why don't we look at our echomail
processors and follow their lead? Why can't we get the nodediff
or nodelist in the format of OUR choosing and reprocess it into
the format that our links want?

  We need a flexible standard, there it is.  Everyone loves
spewing, "Well ARC is the current standard!" That is correct, so
let's change the way the standard is written.  Our mailer's
these days are using protocols above and beyond the standard
(EMSI is a prime example) but have fall-back to the original
tried and true standard.  So let's do it with archivers, for
mail and nodediffs.

  The new standard is that we can get the nodediff in ANY
format we wish and process it for our downlinks. The ONLY
format which is required to be supported by anyone is ARC.  If
they want ZOO, if you don't have ZOO, and they don't want
anything else, fallback to ARC. If all you have is ARC then
they must have ARC to process it.  But ARC is the only
requirement, not the rigid, set in stone standard.

  That only reflects the current trend in echomail, a trend
which I've never had a problem with. When it comes to nodediffs
its a wonder we are still ARCing along only because SOME of us
cannot support anything else. Let's let the few HUBs who are
most likely packing mail in multiple formats to take care of the
few who require ARC and let the rest of us ZIP along, or ARJ, or
FidoNews 10-35                 Page: 26                    30 Aug 1993

LHA, or ZOO, or anything else.

  Now, some may see the one "flaw" in this system.  It will
require a nodediff for each format to be stored on the HUBbing
system. Well, to those who would think this a problem I submit
that these HUBs send out tons more data in mail per day than the
WEEKLY nodelist update to nearly every node they service.  50K
per compression format per WEEK will not seriously bother any
system that is currently HUBbing. If it does, what are they
doing hubbing when one node could take up to 1Mb per DAY?

  How to impliment this standard? Get it supported, get it
in there. It works on the echomail side of life quite well all
over the net right now. All we need is a utility to reprocess
the nodediff and send it on it's way.  Any takers on the
program?  I'm willing to try my hand at it if it means we can
FINALLY get away from this useless bickering over a few words of
policy when we have the ability to accomodate both those who
want a new/faster/tighter compression format, and those who are
stuck with ARC!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

  From: Doug Wilson                          (1:351/220)

SEX -- HOW TO GET IT ON THE NET!

This article is about sex, and is aimed at people who  enjoy  it  and
even   enjoy  thinking  or  talking  about  it.   And  you  won't  be
disappointed, for  I  not  only  talk  about  it,  but  suggest  that
unlimited  sex is available for anyone who wants it!  (But first this
word from our sponsor ...)

Actually this article really is about sex, and so  is  the  following
definition,  even  if  it seems at first glance to be about something
else.  Here is how the famous  Jargon  File  or  Hacker's  Dictionary
defines SEX:

> SEX ... Software EXchange.  A technique invented by
> blue-green algae hundreds of millions of years ago to speed
> up their evolution, which had been terribly slow up until
> then.  Today SEX parties are popular among hackers and
> others (of course, these are no longer limited to exchange
> of genetic software).  In general, SEX parties are a Good
> Thing, but unprotected SEX can propagate a virus.

Now this is very true, but also misses a point.  People engage in sex
for the pleasure more often than the exchange  of  genetic  software.
But  as  Richard  Dawkins  points  out in "The Selfish Gene" and "The
Blind Watchmaker", the pleasure is really a bribe that our genes give
us in order to persuade us to reproduce them.

And  of  course,  when  people  use a BBS or meet at a PC-users group
meeting, there is almost always a little software exhchanged (even if
you  are  only  interested  in  the  messages, you are likely to have
FidoNews 10-35                 Page: 27                    30 Aug 1993

downloaded an offline reader).  But that's not really why most people
do  it  most  of  the  time.   They do it for the pleasure.  Software
EXchange is fun, and using a BBS or attending a users group  is  fun.
It's  sex.   (And  sometimes  it  really is sex in the human-to-human
sense, too.  Adult BBS items are popular, and a lot of flirting  goes
on in the Chat echoes.)

But according to Dawkins, ideas are memes, and memes strive selfishly
to propagate themselves, just like genes do.  Some of  this  pleasure
we  experience  in using a BBS may be merely the bribe that our memes
give us in order to persuade us to reproduce them.

Most of us have at one time or another experienced the  near-orgasmic
pleasure  of  a  really good argument over ideas: religion, politics,
technology, computer languages, or other subjects which  arouse  such
passion in people who care about them.  Where does that pleasure come
from?  Is it something our memes provide?  Maybe genes and memes  are
working  together  here, if we have a genetic predisposition to enjoy
exchanging ideas.

In the lower animals, the genes were clearly running the show, but as
learned  abilities  replace  innate  ones, maybe the tables have been
turned and the selfish memes are using our genes for their own  ends,
(no pun intended).

If  sex  was  invented  to speed up evolution (using the teleological
language that seems  so  valid  in  biology),  then  maybe  all  this
exchange  of  information  has  something  to do with speeding up our
cultural evolution, or the evolution of our shared memes.  And  maybe
these memes are using our sexual drives for this purpose -- certainly
without the need for sexual fulfillment many of us would be much less
social and thus exchange fewer ideas/memes.

The  dominant  meme  which  has  been running my life for the past 15
years or so is the idea of  using  some  fancy  mathematical  methods
called  combinatorial  optimization  to  patch  up  the  human social
network so that we will all be surrounded by truly compatible friends
and co-workers and will be able to find good meaningful jobs.  But of
course optimizing the social network would also  serve  to  bring  us
into contact with many truly compatible sexual partners.

Now,  it  occurs  to me ... or maybe I should say, I am driven by the
memes possessing me to  say:  perhaps  this  idea  of  making  sexual
pleasure  readily available to everyone is so appealing that it could
serve as the  hook  to  attract  others  to  this  idea  of  applying
combinatorial  optimization  to society.  Yes, yes, it could do that.
Let's try it.

Here goes: if you enjoy sex and want lots of it, then all you have to
do  is participate in our project to apply combinatorial optimization
to society.  If you understand what I'm talking about here, send me a
message  indicating  your  interest,  and  I  will send you some more
information. If you don't understand what I'm saying,  but  like  the
idea  of  plenty  of  sex, try to think of someone you know who might
understand this article and pass it on to them.  If enough people are
FidoNews 10-35                 Page: 28                    30 Aug 1993

interested, we should be able to get this project off the ground in a
matter of a few weeks, and then we can all enjoy the  results.   Pass
this  a  copy  of  this  article  on to your friends. Post it on your
favourite echo.

Now, if you  have  read  this  article,  and  particularly  the  last
paragraph, you have just experience a form of software exchange.  Lie
back and light  up  a  cigarette,  or  whatever  you  do  after  such
exchanges.  I hope it was good for you, too!

-- Doug Wilson


----------------------------------------------------------------------

"ZIP as FidoNet Standard Archiver"
by Stanton McCandlish  FidoNet 1:301/2
IndraNet 369:101/1
FishNet 21:103/101
HSANet 13:505/4
USA_Link 505:505/5  +1-505-246-8515

I'd like to add a (qualified) voice of support to Kristian
Stark's proposal that a new archive format be looked into. What
the qualifier is, is a slight Korzybskian error, a confusion
between map and territory, menu and meal.

There is NO problem whatsoever in using PKZip, if InfoZip
becomes the standard. The file formats are identical (when
InfoZip is used properly, i.e. with the -k -9 switches). The
issue is not about which archiving program does the compression,
but about the format itself. If the issue was the program, then
ARC would be out, since there are a variety of semi-com- patible
ARC makers out there (in fact I find that many of the ARCs I
receive will not decompress properly except with PKUnPak of all
things.)

In short, if you prefer PKZip over InfoZip (which is fully 2.04g
compatible, and will maintain future compatibility with PKZip;
that's what it's FOR), then use it.

Also, I'd like to correct Mr. Stark, in that InfoZip IS
available for the Mac. The only platforms I can think of right
off hand that DON'T have an implementation of a (well known) ZIP
[un]archiver, are RISCs and mainframes that do not run Unix or
VMS, Atari, non-Amiga Commodores, CP/M and the Timex Sinclair
<grin>. Also, it is my understanding that PKZip will run just
fine in OS/2, but perhaps I am mistaken (I do not use OS/2, but
I have users that do, and my BBS's files are all in .ZIP format
so...)

Even so, the source code is available, and compiling for your
machine (or porting it with some minor mods) should be trivial.

[addendum: I just checked the source code and there ARE patches
FidoNews 10-35                 Page: 29                    30 Aug 1993

for compiling it for Amiga, as well as Mac, OS/2, VMS, etc.
That only leaves the oddball machines, the owners of which
should not have much difficulty porting it anyway, considering
how difficult it is to make a Windows, OS/2, and Mac version out
of a DOS product. Additionally, there are Windows-NT patches
now!]

I have already outlined how much using ARC is *costing* us all,
in direct monetary losses, every day, month and year. The time
to retire ARC to the hall of fame and move on has come.

And lest one be worried about nodes that can't handle ZIPs,
hell, use ARC just like you always did. Let's not make this any
more difficult than it needs to be, eh? Or would that violate
Holy Policy?

The following implementations of Info[Un]Zip are available by
FREQing the full file name from my system, NitV-BBS, at any of
its addresses. You need not be nodelisted or even in Fido to do
it:

ZIP19P1X.ZIP  114278   Zip for DOS
ZIP19LX.ZIP   112338   Zip for Amiga.  Obviously, you need UnZip 1st!
ZIP50X16.ZIP   99994   Zip for 16-bit OS/2
ZIP50X32.ZIP  150558   Zip for 32-bit OS/2
ZIP19P1.ZIP   202085   Zip (and presumably UnZip) source code
ZIP19P1.ARC   272445   Zip src. in nasty ARC format (done by ARCA)
                      Note the difference in file sizes.  How long
                      is 70k at 2400bps?  >:)
ZIP_UNZIP.HQX  96968   BinHex'd Zip and UnZip for Mac
UNZ51D3X.EXE   40062   UnZip for DOS (self-extracting archive)
UNZ51D3X.LHA   84726   UnZip for Amiga (LHA/LZH archive)
UNZ50X16.ZIP  102097   UnZip for 16-bit OS/2
UNZ50X32.ZIP  116709   UnZip for 32-bit OS/2
UNZ51D3X.TAZ  299288   UnZip (source) for Unix.  This is a "tar"-archived
                      .tar, "compress"-compressed .Z file, original name:
                      UNZ51D3X.tar.Z.  It may be that this is the only
                      source for UnZip that I have, I'm not really sure;
                      hopefully ZIP19P1.* has it also.  If not, please
                      advise me, and I will see what I can do about it.
                      It appears that the basic source in ZIP19P1.* is
                      the Unix Zip source.  If you need ZIP19P1.* in
                      another format such as ZOO, I can do that.  I
                      MIGHT be able to provide it in tar form, but I
                      wouldn't trust DOS ports of tar very much.
WUNZ13EX.ZIP   70656   UnZip for Windows 3.x.
                      No Zip seems to be available.
WUNZ13SR.ZIP   63194   UnZip for Windows source code.
ZCRYPT19.ZIP   14175   ZCrypt encryption module for Zip ** available ONLY
                      to nodes in the US and Canada, due to idiotic US
                      export restrictions on cryptographic materials.

[apologies if this table does not come out looking nice when
printed. Looks great in my text editor though!]

FidoNews 10-35                 Page: 30                    30 Aug 1993

I do NOT have versions for Atari, VMS, NT, or any version not
listed here. Besides PKZip 2.04, and a variety of utils, this is
IT.  I will gladly archive and make available other versions
that are passed on to me. Note: I cannot guarantee the integrity
or suitability of any of these files. The older UNZ51D3X.ZIP
(for Amiga) that I had was corrupt apparently, and was not the
original distribution (thus the .ZIP extension). It has been
replaced with UNZ51D3X.LHA.

FREQ magicname FILES to get the full NitV file list.  NEWFILES
will provide you with a list of the last 30-days' newest stuff.

As an aside, I'd like to propose that all of us yell like mad
and get the ban on encrypted mail lifted.  I'd like to point
you, in the mean time, to the Fido SecureMail Hub System, which
will gladly carry your encrypted or otherwise private mail
unread and unmolested.  Grep the nodelist for the UNSMH and
URSMH flags to find the nearest SM Hub.

If you'd like a lot of info on why cryptography is of use to
you, and what the govt. is trying to do to take away your rights
to privacy and freedom of expression, FREQ magicname BIGBRO.

And if you'd like to try out some encrypted echomail, or
otherwise escape net.oppression, FREQ magicname INDRANET for
info on IndraNet (zone 369), the  most  free  and  open
international net- and echo-mail network you are likely to find
anywhere.

PS to Mike Riddle: your "method of 1" compression stuff, which
came from the _Journal_of_Irreproducible_Results_ is a joke.
That's a science humour magazine. They are fond of things like
mathematical "proofs" that dropped toast will always land
buttered side down. :)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

"Tired of People Misusing Policy?  Use It Yourself!"
Stanton McCandlish, 1:301/2

I hereby recommend that those who feel that they have been
affected by recent events, file one or more of the following
Policy Complaints, as appropriate:

J.B. Graham 1:170/0 - excessively annoying behaviour (XAB), for
  wrongful excising of Jason Garcia formerly 1:170/506 from
  the nodelist, on the [lack of] basis of not registering
  software.  Recommendation:  Warning,  removal from NC
  position.

Bruce Bodger 1:19/0 - XAB, for wrongful excising of Jason Garcia
  formerly 1:170/506 from the nodelist, on the [lack of]
  basis of not registering software; XAB, for wrongful
  banning of Mark Yoder 1:264/177.5 from the FRONTDOOR echo,
  without warning; Violation of Section 1.3.6, due  to
FidoNews 10-35                 Page: 31                    30 Aug 1993

  conflict of interest in excising Garcia from the nodelist
  due to not registering software from a commercial entity he
  is involved with. Recommendation: stern warning, removal
  from RC position.

Ron Dwight 2:2/0 - most extreme case of XAB FidoNet has seen to
  date, for 1) ignoring all practical matters in enforcing a
  personal interpretation of policy 2) completely wrecking
  one region (R24), and embarking upon the wreckage of
  another, such that several hundred nodes have dropped out
  of the "official" nodelist and are actively rebelling;
  nodes are being forced by Dwight and cohorts [who should
  also have XABs filed against them, including Burnett] to
  particpate in "Geonets" that are based not on the logic of
  proximity and ability to network smoothly, but on phone
  numbers. This action has caused grief to many THOUSANDS of
  FidoNet participants [as an example, if only 100 BBSs are
  affected, and each BBS has only 10 FidoNet users, that's
  already 1000].  3) Harrassment of sysops in both R24 and
  R25. Violation [of the spirit if not the letter] of
  policy, specifically Policy 4's staunch recommendation that
  net admins not wear multiple hats - in particular Dwight,
  as ZC2, has also set himself up as RC25, for the sole
  (expressed) reason of thwarting a legal action under UK law
  [Dwight is not one to go bandying about insinu- ations of
  blackmail]. Recommendation: very stern warning, removal
  from both RC and ZC positions.

Christopher Baker 1:18/0 - XAB, for repeatedly weaseling and
  handwaving on policy issues, specifically:  renouncing
  policy, then enforcing his own version of it, despite
  several self-reversals, and severe criticism; for baseless
  threats to dissolve entire nets that do not brown-nose; for
  base insults toward individuals and entire networks; for
  removing an NC for obeying Baker's own policies [even if
  the NC was rude, this is a matter for a PC, not for taking
  the "law" into Baker's own hands, which he has no authority
  to do.] Violation of Policy, specifically the section that
  states that "real" law in your area must supercede Fido
  pol- icy, specifically: revealing a password in a public
  echo,  which  is  a  violation  of  US  Federal
  Telecommunications Law, governing access to computers and
  passwords  thereof.  Violation of Policy, specifically
  improper elisting of an echo.  Recommendation:  stern
  warning, removal from RC position.

Steve Winter 1:18/98 - XAB, for harrassment and bigotted
  discrimination ("hate speech"), and gross insults to any
  and all members of a religion (Christianity) who do not
  happen to participate in the HOLY_BIBLE echo. [Not to
  mention the very obnoxious practice of stating baseless
  opinion as "fact" in his advertisements.] Recommendation:
  Warning and removal of HOLY_BIBLE from the backbone for a
  period of 6 months.

FidoNews 10-35                 Page: 32                    30 Aug 1993

Tired of this stuff? DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

Note to the "accused": Nothing personal. For all I know you are
great people but in my never even remotely humble opinion you
are all making VERY big mistakes, and others are suffering
because of it.

WARNING: Any flames addressed to me will be met with an
immediate XAB Policy Complaint. If you have something to say
you can say it reasonably.


----------------------------------------------------------------------

HST and ZYX Nodelist Flags
by Clay Tinsley, 1:124/5125

I've seen lots of comparisons lately between the ZyXel and USRobotics
modems.  The most popular comparison is the one which attempts to show
which modem is most popular in Fidonet.

This is a great idea; people want to know what modem to buy, and which
modems are growing in popularity.  The FidoNet nodelist is a great
place to start - IF it was updated correctly.

Too many of the listings incorrectly show the older HST flag - as a
matter of fact, over 2,600 entries are wrong, showing "HST" and "V32b"
on the same line. This modem simply doesn't exist! All Dual Standards
are at least H14 capable.

I encourage all 16.8 HST users, NC's and Hubs make sure their nodelist
entries and are up to date. There's no point in updating an HST,V32b
entry IF it's an H14, but if you're updating that entry already, go
ahead and make the change. It's the improper H16 entries that are not
telling the real story. I also encourage nodes and NC's to get the Z16
and Z19 nodelist flags approved for use.

 For the record:   HST - oldest 9600 High Speed Technology
                   H14 - newer 14,400 High Speed Technology
                   H16 - newest 16,800 High Speed Technology

----------------------------------------------------------------------

*** The RC 24 @FidoClassic is elected ***

Wolfgang Hanke, RC 24 @FidoClassic  (2:24/0) (2:246/301)

Hello to all members of Fido all over the world.

I am the official spokesman for the german 'Fido  Classic',  selected
by a democratic election, now acting as Region Coordinator RC 24.

All  the 950 Sysops who I represent lay claim to being the legitimate
members of the Fido Region 24.

FidoNews 10-35                 Page: 33                    30 Aug 1993

All nodes listed in the appendixes  have  agreed  that  the  way  the
german nodelist (176) was reorganized can not be accepted, not now or
in the future.

The changes made did NOT comply with Policy 4.07 - as  often  said  -
and  the  people  concerned are against the inhumane and bad mannered
way in which it was handled.

I have applied to  represent  the  nodes  who  oppose  the  way  this
procedure was handled and to discuss this further with the people who
initiated it. I now want  to  talk  this  problem  over  as  soon  as
possible.  But,  I don't want, under any circumstances, to talk about
integration into the current german 'GCC-Fido'.

We, the legitimate nodes of Region 24, in a fair  way,  will  always,
and I repeat always, point out the faults of Fido in Germany. Being a
part of Fido we have a right to speak up and be heard and at the same
time  nobody  can ignore what we have to say. We can't just simply be
pushed out of fido.

We, approximately 950 nodes, think and work  democratically  and  all
call for a withdrawal of this form of regionalisation.

And  after  that,  of  course,  we  can,  in  an  open  way,  discuss
improvements of the german Fido structure.

I thank you all for your attention and
we are looking forward to your response.

With best regards.

Wolfgang Hanke, elected RC 24 @FidoClassic    (2:24/0) (2:246/301)

Sysops who did not accept
the german regionalisation:

Abels Wim                A2:242/201 A2:242/200 A2:242/22 A2:242/21
..                      A2:242/20
Abt Alexander            A2:2407/51 A2:2407/511 A2:2407/512 A2:2407/510
Addicks Johann_H.        A2:2401/718
Adolph Ralf              A2:2401/206
Ahrens Torsten           A2:248/120
Aichberger Thomas        A2:246/59
Albert Hans              A2:246/64
Albert Michael           A2:242/86
Albrecht Thomas          A2:246/305
Amiri Reza               A2:246/402
Andres Kim               A2:242/110
Angele Christian         A2:246/111
Ankenbauer Holger        A2:2407/912 A2:2407/913 A2:2407/910
Antoine Egbert           A2:242/369
Antoskiewicz Dirk        A2:241/3414
Anyfantis Thomas         A2:241/7503
Arlandt Joerg            A2:2401/209
Atzinger Martin          A2:246/805
FidoNews 10-35                 Page: 34                    30 Aug 1993

Babatz Stephan           A2:242/16
Bachem Hans              A2:2402/109
Bader Klaus              A2:246/141
Bahr Thomas              A2:242/38
Balser Uwe               A2:248/122 A2:248/123
Balun Rayko              A2:2407/110
Bank Michael_von_der     A2:2400/110
Bankett Kai              A2:2401/719
Bankmann Peter           A2:245/31 A2:245/30 A2:245/303
Barth Michael            A2:242/371
Bauer Alexander          A2:243/105
Bauer Michael            A2:248/45 A2:248/50
Bauer Richard            A2:243/94
Baumann Klaus            A2:242/83
Beck Peter               A2:246/500 A2:246/5 A2:246/550
Becker Beate             A2:242/5109
Becker Uwe               A2:242/522
Beckert Juergen          A2:248/156
Beckmann Christian       A2:246/0 A2:246/4 A2:246/9000
Begander Detlef          A2:2407/39
Behm Frank               A2:241/2312 A2:241/2311
Behr Gerhard             A2:246/407
Behrendt Achim           A2:2405/667
Behrendt Christian       A2:242/62
Beil Tim                 A2:248/101
Bell Alexander           A2:242/9 A2:242/49
Berger Andreas           A2:242/5112
Berger Peter             A2:2407/34
Bergermann Robert        A2:241/2300 A2:241/2302
Bergmann Frank           A2:243/65
Berle Ralph              A2:2401/602
Bernhardt Peter          A2:2400/846 A2:2400/845
Bernstorf Ulf            A2:241/7813
Bieker Stephan           A2:242/36
Biermann Lars            A2:245/630
Bilgram Dirk             A2:246/57
Bitsch Henning           A2:247/31
Blankart Johannes        A2:246/29 A2:246/136
Blaufuks Miguel          A2:248/43
Blecker Wolfgang         A2:248/166
Blodau Joerg             A2:2401/604
Bochmann Alexander       A2:241/7803
Bock Christoph           A2:242/424
Bodemer Axel             A2:242/404 A2:242/400
Boehnke Anton            A2:241/7806
Boelt Andreas            A2:246/144
Boettger Ralf            A2:240/136 A2:240/122 A2:240/123
Boettjer Uwe             A2:241/2011 A2:241/2006
Bolz Peter               A2:2401/104
Boor Christian_de        A2:241/2203
Boos Markus              A2:243/111
Borcherdt Ulf            A2:2402/119
Borm Joerg               A2:248/310
Boveleth Thomas          A2:241/5225
Bracke Wolfgang          A2:242/325
FidoNews 10-35                 Page: 35                    30 Aug 1993

Brand Winfried           A2:242/515
Braukmann Andreas        A2:245/403
Braukmann Andreas        A2:241/2012
Braun Frank              A2:242/513
Braun Herbert            A2:2400/860
Braun Klaus              A2:241/2023
Brendemuehl Volker       A2:246/802
Brendler Rudolf          A2:246/140
Brenke Michael           A2:245/201
Brentano Hubert          A2:242/512
Bressel Max              A2:240/133 A2:240/102 A2:240/103 A2:240/132
Brinkmann Rainer         A2:247/45
Brodmuehler Frank        A2:245/105
Broecker Norbert         A2:241/7465
Brune Willi              A2:2401/300 A2:2401/301 A2:2401/302
Brusch Ronald            A2:240/127
Brutscher Hans           A2:243/92
Bruziks George           A2:243/910 A2:243/91
Buchheister Lutz         A2:240/126
Buelte Burkhard          A2:2407/302
Buhr Klaus               A2:2402/318
Bultmann Arnulf          A2:246/63
Bungalski Marco          A2:241/2309
Burkhard Axel            A2:248/307
Burkhardt Marc           A2:247/184
Burkon Ekkehard          A2:246/129
Cartwright Clifton       A2:2400/17
Caspari Manfred          A2:242/5107
Chan Kai                 A2:246/69
Christel Rudolf          A2:2400/300 A2:2400/301 A2:2400/931 A2:2400/932
Christel Thomas          A2:2400/302
Claessen Udo             A2:242/102
Clymont Jeff_Mc          A2:2401/119
Coordes Michael          A2:2403/21
Cremers Frank            A2:242/206
Crisan Eugen             A2:2400/33
Cuntz Manfred            A2:249/56
Cvachovec Michael        A2:248/8
Czech Andreas            A2:242/52
Daeuble Joachim          A2:2407/44
Dahm Patrick             A2:248/311
Dammann Marc             A2:240/116
Dangschies Andreas       A2:242/601 A2:242/602
Dassler Joerg            A2:2400/12 A2:2400/13 A2:2400/11 A2:2400/900
..                      A2:2400/5 A2:2400/901 A2:2400/0 A2:2400/10
..                      A2:2400/1 A2:2400/905
Dauffenbach Michael      A2:242/5101
Daum Klaus-W.            A2:241/2305
Dedden Wolfgang          A2:242/508
Delphin Harl             A2:242/342
Demmer Uwe               A2:242/67
Dickhoff Bruno           A2:242/61
Diehl Matthias           A2:248/154
Diehl Nico               A2:2405/20
Dietz Michael            A2:2403/59
FidoNews 10-35                 Page: 36                    30 Aug 1993

Distler Holm             A2:247/183
Dohmen Lothar            A2:242/605
Drechsler Peter          A2:242/5170
Drescher Martin          A2:2401/306
Drescher Uli             A2:245/107
Dressler Andre           A2:2401/101
Drexel Jochen            A2:2407/911
Driessche Bart_van       A2:2400/107
Dueker Sven              A2:242/425 A2:242/426
Duell Harald             A2:2407/1001
Dufek Roman              A2:2400/29
Dufner Dieter            A2:247/118
Dullinger Frank          A2:2401/113
Ebeling Juergen          A2:242/84
Eckel Eckmar             A2:246/148 A2:246/448
Edelmann Siegfried       A2:246/807
Edelmann Thomas          A2:2400/305
Eggen Frank              A2:241/2009 A2:241/2005
Eichenberg Wolf          A2:2403/39
Eichler Stefan           A2:2400/531
Eppert Malte             A2:243/31
Erhardt Harald           A2:246/115 A2:246/7000
Esser Rene               A2:241/5207
Evertz Uwe               A2:241/2314
Fahrmair Michael         A2:246/806
Fanslau Thomas           A2:245/102 A2:245/101
Feagans Carl             A2:2400/304
Feldenkirchen Dirk       A2:2401/14
Feldmann Michael         A2:242/56
Fellendorf Kai           A2:2401/730
Fensterseifer Thomas     A2:246/562
Fergen Joachim           A2:243/102
Ferrari Rudi             A2:242/521 A2:242/511
Fiebiger Roland          A2:2400/815
Fingerling Sebastian     A2:249/42
Finis Carsten            A2:246/250
Fischer Eckard           A2:243/20 A2:243/21
Fischer Fred             A2:2402/118
Fischer Ralf             A2:241/0 A2:241/1 A2:241/2000 A2:241/2003
Fischer Sven             A2:241/7522
Fleck Steffen            A2:247/123
Floeck Alex              A2:242/5105
Floerke Stephan          A2:246/117
Flory Bernd              A2:249/125 A2:249/225
Foerster Markus          A2:246/200 A2:246/2000 A2:246/202 A2:246/201
Frank Heinz              A2:242/45
Franke Thorsten          A2:245/402
Franzen Chris            A2:241/2028
Freund Kerstin           A2:241/4033 A2:242/4033
Frey Michael             A2:246/105 A2:246/104
Frinken Nancy            A2:2407/11
Fritsch Ralf             A2:2402/122
Fritz Michael            A2:248/39
Froehlich Silvia         A2:246/15
Fuchs Joerg              A2:243/28
FidoNews 10-35                 Page: 37                    30 Aug 1993

Fuchs Manfred            A2:2407/73
Fuchs Ruediger           A2:245/32
Fuesers Harald           A2:242/35
Fulea Dinu               A2:245/406
Gabler Juergen           A2:2401/310 A2:2401/311 A2:2401/305
Gaida Marco              A2:2400/835
Galganek Christian       A2:2403/31
Galke Sven               A2:245/76
Gartner Oliver           A2:241/7080
Gausepohl Detlef         A2:242/40
Gawrisch Jendrik         A2:241/7512
Gehring Tobias           A2:241/7656 A2:241/7657
Gehrt Volker             A2:242/5102
Geiger Horst             A2:244/36
Geissler Ernst           A2:248/159
Gerke Rolf               A2:241/3410 A2:241/3411
Gesierich Franz          A2:244/28 A2:244/0 A2:244/20
Geyer Lothar             A2:249/53
Gierg Thomas             A2:2405/47 A2:2405/48 A2:2405/49
Gierke Eberhard          A2:248/324
Giglberger Stephan       A2:2400/403
Gimmler Karsten          A2:242/97
Gloeckner Robert         A2:2400/30
Goedde Dirk              A2:246/240
Goessl Stefan            A2:2407/101
Goetjes Sven             A2:2401/204
Gollwitzer Alexander     A2:248/309
Gorges Andreas           A2:245/302
Grabes Horst             A2:246/888
Graf Peter               A2:247/161
Grau Jochen              A2:2400/45
Gressnich Goetz          A2:247/105
Gries Manfred            A2:242/401
Grimm Michael            A2:242/5116
Grosch Harald            A2:242/71
Grosse-Allermann Dirk    A2:245/35
Grosse-Venhaus Bernfried A2:2401/212
Gruppe Robert            A2:242/111
Guentert Johannes        A2:241/7811
Guenzel Gerrit           A2:241/2033
Gueth Bernhard           A2:248/111
Gutbub Swen              A2:246/42
Gutscher Norbert         A2:241/7552
Gutzke Joerg             A2:242/7
Haag Axel                A2:2407/10 A2:2407/108
Haake Stefan             A2:2407/35
Haas Christian           A2:246/601
Habel Marcus             A2:242/88
Hackenbruch Horst        A2:242/98
Haensch Stefan           A2:2403/50
Haerth Matthias          A2:242/89
Haeusler Norbert         A2:248/513
Haffner Wilhelm          A2:242/517 A2:246/610
Hagebeucker Stefan       A2:2401/715
Hagenbusch Ronald        A2:2407/3 A2:2407/33
FidoNews 10-35                 Page: 38                    30 Aug 1993

Hahn Pit                 A2:248/118
Halfpapp Norbert         A2:242/5115
Hamboerger Klaas         A2:241/2042
Hamers Hans              A2:241/5201
Handtmann Arne           A2:242/5 A2:242/50
Hanisch Armin            A2:246/41
Hanke Wolfgang           A2:24/0 A2:246/3000 A2:246/301 A2:246/300
Hannemann Nobert         A2:241/7814
Hansen Gunner            A2:240/105 A2:240/128
Hardinge David           A2:2400/850
Harms Klaus              A2:245/400 A2:245/444
Hartmann Fredi           A2:242/514
Hasselmeyer Peer         A2:247/4
Haubold Peter            A2:242/250 A2:242/251
Hauck Manfred            A2:247/79
Haumann Ulrich           A2:248/17
Haus Dirk                A2:247/170 A2:247/60
Haustein Stefan          A2:2401/108
Hauzinger Michael        A2:242/205
Heese Michael            A2:241/2007
Heider Winfried          A2:241/2001
Heine Werner             A2:246/109
Heinen Benedikt          A2:242/44
Heinold Udo              A2:241/7550 A2:241/7551
Heinz Christian          A2:2400/351
Heinze Christian         A2:246/642
Helbing Stefan           A2:246/813
Helle Sascha             A2:2407/31
Heller Carlos            A2:245/139
Heller Henry             A2:247/111 A2:247/112 A2:247/115 A2:247/116
..                      A2:247/114
Hempel Markus            A2:2400/865
Henkelmann Andy          A2:248/116
Hennes Martin            A2:242/242
Hennig Frank             A2:246/208
Herklotz Volker          A2:240/115
Hermann Juergen          A2:241/7554
Hermanns Oliver          A2:245/407
Hermes Roland            A2:241/2025
Herrmann Ralf            A2:2400/866
Herrmannsdoerfer Harry   A2:2400/109
Herth Christoph          A2:248/124
Heun Rainer              A2:246/54
Heymann Arnd             A2:2400/43
Hick Christian           A2:242/502
Hierold Gerd             A2:246/118
Hilbrandt Peter          A2:2402/56 A2:2402/55
Hilgemann Joerg          A2:243/50
Hochecker Peter          A2:240/111
Hochstaetter Christoph   A2:243/660
Hoelting Thomas          A2:2401/711
Hoerner Robert           A2:241/7518
Hoeschen Dirk            A2:245/114
Hoess Michael            A2:242/82
Hoffmann Axel            A2:242/37
FidoNews 10-35                 Page: 39                    30 Aug 1993

Hofmann Juergen          A2:241/7150 A2:241/7151
Hofmann Michael          A2:2400/306
Hofmann Robert           A2:2400/24 A2:2400/924 A2:2400/925
Hohmann Bernd            A2:248/317
Holweger Dieter          A2:241/7558
Holzheimer Markus        A2:2400/18
Holzmann Markus          A2:2401/116
Hornberger Peter         A2:248/600
Horstmann Tobias         A2:2407/55
HUB22                    A2:243/622
Huebner Daniel           A2:241/4528 A2:241/4527
Huertgen Boris           A2:242/210
Hugowski Winfried        A2:245/631
Huhn Christian           A2:241/7600 A2:241/7604
Hummel Dieter            A2:241/6000 A2:241/6001 A2:241/6002
Hummel Hans_Peter        A2:2401/605
Hupfer Tom               A2:241/7902
Hyweege Frank            A2:2401/309
Ikenmeyer Rainer         A2:242/406
Imre Can                 A2:2400/870
Jackel Manfred           A2:243/104
Jacobsen Henning         A2:240/107
Jaeger Juergen           A2:242/5104
Jaeger Karl-Ludwig       A2:241/7603
Janssen Carsten          A2:241/2019
Janssen Uwe              A2:246/812
Jendyk Helmut            A2:2402/124
Jensen Goeran            A2:242/332
Johann Andre             A2:2401/118
John Peter               A2:246/403
Junius Martin            A2:242/6
Kaestner Dan             A2:243/96
Kaiser Joerg             A2:242/308
Kaleve Peter             A2:246/4000 A2:246/56 A2:246/156 A2:246/256
Kaleve Thomas            A2:241/2039
Kalman Peter             A2:243/98
Kaltenbach Nader         A2:246/133 A2:246/606
Kammel Juergen_H.        A2:2401/105
Kannenberg Branko        A2:242/523
Kantzer Eike             A2:2403/57
Kaspar Stefan            A2:246/19 A2:246/18 A2:246/8000 A2:246/818
Kaszanics Peter          A2:245/100 A2:245/8 A2:245/104 A2:245/116
Keila Peter              A2:2400/61
Kemper Mathias           A2:2401/115
Ketterer Mirko           A2:241/7536 A2:241/7526 A2:241/7500 A2:241/7516
Kettner Klaus            A2:246/566 A2:246/6500
Keuthen Marco            A2:247/120
Kidalla Marc             A2:2400/121
Kiesewetter Georg        A2:2400/352
Kilb Klaus               A2:245/138
Kiotsoukis Alexander     A2:246/406
Kirchhoff Hajo           A2:2400/116
Kittel Stephan           A2:246/333
Klampfl Ruediger         A2:243/11
Klein Andreas            A2:246/47
FidoNews 10-35                 Page: 40                    30 Aug 1993

Klein Klaus_Dieter       A2:246/126
Kleinitzke Markus        A2:2400/52
Kleinpoppen Joerg        A2:2401/600 A2:2401/601
Kleinwort Axel           A2:246/30 A2:246/31
Klingler Stefan          A2:247/107
Klinkhammer Uli          A2:2401/109
Klissner Michael         A2:246/902
Klose Sascha             A2:241/2016 A2:241/2017
Klotz Willy              A2:2407/46
Klukas Uwe               A2:245/125
Knauer Konrad_H.         A2:2403/0 A2:2403/32
Knechtel Joern           A2:249/26
Knischek Ulrich          A2:241/2205
Knittel Dirk             A2:241/7099
Knothe Harald_Konrad     A2:249/62
Kober Roland             A2:2401/609
Kockskaemper Klaus       A2:2401/704
Koegel Achim             A2:241/7463
Koehler Hermann          A2:2407/413
Koehler Klaus            A2:243/666 A2:243/600
Koehncke Hans            A2:248/0 A2:248/2
Koehrer Martin           A2:241/7559
Koenigs Helmut           A2:245/521
Koersgen Peter           A2:246/607
Koester Detlef           A2:245/555
Koestlin Albrecht        A2:242/51 A2:242/5100
Konezna Walter           A2:248/150 A2:248/151
Kraemer Ralph            A2:245/173 A2:245/174 A2:245/175 A2:245/172
Kramer Michael           A2:248/10
Kramer Michael           A2:242/80
Kraus Frank              A2:2401/705
Kraus Stefan             A2:247/29
Kraus Thorsten           A2:247/653 A2:247/654 A2:247/652
Krause Thomas            A2:243/607
Kremer Marco             A2:243/610
Kressig Peter            A2:242/109
Kretschmann Kai          A2:248/312
Kreuz Franz              A2:246/701
Kreuz Guenther           A2:2407/47
Krieg Andreas            A2:2407/107
Krieger Joachim          A2:247/121
Krieghoff Phil           A2:2407/801
Kries Wolfgang           A2:2401/606
Kroeter Wolfram          A2:2400/28
Krueger Stephan          A2:242/5120
Kuba Marcus              A2:2407/106
Kubiak Norbert           A2:245/404
Kuenkel Walter           A2:243/10 A2:243/93
Kuester Thomas           A2:243/18
Kuhlmann Christian       A2:2400/34
Kuhn Stefan              A2:246/222
Laarz Martin             A2:242/5117
Laas Frank               A2:246/113
Lachmann Frank           A2:241/7557
Lachner Gero_D.          A2:2401/304
FidoNews 10-35                 Page: 41                    30 Aug 1993

Lademann Bernhard        A2:243/108
Lamers A.Juergen         A2:242/5103
Lamm Wolfram             A2:2401/502
Lamparter Steffen        A2:2407/43
Land Erhard              A2:2401/117 A2:2401/122 A2:2401/121
Lang Klaus               A2:248/157
Lange Philipp            A2:246/245
Langen Oliver            A2:2401/504 A2:2401/507
Lanzl Markus             A2:246/306
Lappersdorf              A2:246/309
Laurig Matthias          A2:2401/706
Lederer Michael          A2:2407/36
Lehnet Thomas            A2:243/103
Leibing Dirk             A2:241/2113
Leichsenring Michael     A2:241/7210
Lemchens Arvids          A2:241/2034
Lepenat Guenter          A2:2401/703 A2:2401/702 A2:2401/700 A2:2401/701
Lerch Manfred            A2:242/5404
Lerner Peter             A2:2400/800 A2:2400/801
Leubner Thomas           A2:241/2021
Leuschner Veit           A2:241/2310
Liebchen Peter           A2:241/5200 A2:241/5203
Lieberwirth Markus       A2:241/7812
Liebetanz Michael        A2:241/7805 A2:241/7809
Lillich Jochen           A2:241/7464
Linden Joerg             A2:242/509
Linke Volker             A2:244/33
Linker Bernd             A2:243/602
Linker Heinrich          A2:248/114 A2:248/100 A2:248/115
Littmann Peter           A2:2403/33 A2:2403/1 A2:2403/47
Llopis Frank             A2:248/13
Locherer Holger          A2:241/2029
Loehrl-Thiel Joachim     A2:2400/108
Loesebeck Georg_Meyer_zu A2:243/63
Lomb Markus              A2:246/13 A2:246/803 A2:246/804
Lotz Thomas              A2:2405/210 A2:2405/211 A2:2405/212
Lucas Olaf               A2:241/7810
Luciani Angelo           A2:246/37
Ludolphi Andreas         A2:242/370 A2:243/74
Ludwig Timo              A2:247/169
lueders chris            A2:2402/332 A2:2402/331 A2:2402/0 A2:2402/300
..                      A2:2402/330 A2:2402/333 A2:2402/334
Luksch Norbert           A2:241/7816
Lutz Bernd               A2:242/5403
Maass Claus              A2:241/7462
Maguhna Dirk             A2:2401/608
Maibach Lutz             A2:248/300 A2:248/308
Maiwald Robert           A2:242/8
Mangels Stephan          A2:241/7456
Mangold Thomas           A2:2407/21
Mantke Harry             A2:246/700
Markgraf Norman          A2:2401/707
Markl Peter              A2:246/304
Marquart Willi           A2:248/158
Martens Carsten          A2:2400/855
FidoNews 10-35                 Page: 42                    30 Aug 1993

Martin Thomas            A2:243/107
Martinovic Zlatko        A2:2407/38
Marxen Rainer            A2:242/262
Massmeyer Thomas         A2:241/7454
Mathes Michael           A2:240/124
Matthies Claus           A2:246/180 A2:246/80
Maybaum Johannes         A2:242/43
Mayer Georg              A2:246/151
Medina Ed                A2:248/514
Meese Sebastian          A2:247/181
Meier Karsten            A2:242/428
Meier Roland_A.          A2:246/28 A2:246/828
Meinzer Harald           A2:241/7658
Meissen Harald           A2:245/128
Mels Ralf                A2:2401/102
Mendez Thorsten          A2:2400/100 A2:2400/101
Mensfeld Ulrich          A2:2401/708
Merkel Axel              A2:241/2040
Metzinger Detlef         A2:241/7606
Metzler Robert           A2:2400/25
Meyer Sascha             A2:246/26
Mirgel Martin            A2:243/99
Mischka Andreas          A2:241/7913
Moeller Andreas          A2:2400/16
Moeller Daniel           A2:2407/41
Moeller Henning          A2:242/3
Moeller Ralf             A2:248/314 A2:248/315
Moers Martin             A2:242/603
Montag Frank             A2:241/7450 A2:241/7451
Morrow Stefan            A2:248/326
Muckert Thomas           A2:2401/503
Mucko Mirko              A2:242/94 A2:242/92 A2:242/90 A2:242/91
Mueller Andreas          A2:2407/54
Mueller Bettina          A2:242/18
Mueller Burkhardt        A2:246/107 A2:246/103 A2:246/100
Mueller Christian        A2:246/67
Mueller Felix            A2:246/903
Mueller Guenter          A2:242/503
Mueller Jens             A2:240/401 A2:240/400 A2:240/444
Mueller Michael          A2:246/811
Mueller Stefan           A2:2401/603
Mueller Steffen          A2:241/7560
Mueller Sven             A2:2401/717
Mueller Werner           A2:246/801
Mueller-Hertenstein MarkuA2:241/7555
Muskatewitz Norbert      A2:242/510
Mutlu Uenal              A2:246/17
Naake Roland             A2:241/7556
Nachtigall Thomas        A2:2400/736 A2:2400/737
Nehls Herbert            A2:245/405
Nerge Thomas             A2:241/2307
Netscher Andreas         A2:247/401
Neugebauer Thomas        A2:2402/116
Neukamp Gerd-Uwe         A2:245/113
Neumann Jasper           A2:242/2
FidoNews 10-35                 Page: 43                    30 Aug 1993

Neumann Marc             A2:241/5915
Neumann Roger            A2:246/122
Neumeyer Volker          A2:2407/109
Neupert Thomas           A2:2400/738
Nick Detlef              A2:243/40
Niedermeier Werner       A2:246/2
Nissen-Henschke Norbert  A2:242/362
Noa Joerg                A2:2402/50 A2:2402/51
Norgaz Kurt              A2:242/5119
Nuehlen Martin           A2:2401/110
Oberdoerster Falko       A2:241/7808
Obermaier Stefan         A2:246/602
Oesterwind Dirk          A2:2401/112
Oesterwind Frank         A2:242/505
Ohmann Juergen           A2:2402/342
Opaschowski Ralph        A2:241/2206
Opiela Oliver            A2:248/318
Orth Manfred             A2:248/323
Osswald Markus           A2:242/101
Osterholz Rainer         A2:244/74 A2:244/73
Osterloh Siegfried       A2:242/25 A2:242/0
Oswald Andreas           A2:248/126
Oswald Martin            A2:241/2200 A2:241/2201
Ott Jochen               A2:246/876 A2:246/76 A2:246/276 A2:246/176
Otto Andreas             A2:242/5407
Otto Oliver              A2:241/2306
Ottstadt Willy           A2:240/119 A2:240/130
Pabst Christian          A2:241/2020 A2:241/2004
Pack Manfred             A2:2401/303
Paczia Guenther          A2:2401/103
Park Leonhard            A2:241/2035
Paschen Mike             A2:240/120 A2:240/0 A2:240/100 A2:240/101
..                      A2:240/121
Paulus Hartmut           A2:241/5907
Perner Guenter           A2:248/15
Perzel Andreas           A2:247/24
Petersen Knut            A2:243/609
Petzoll Kurt             A2:2400/510
Pfaff Lutz               A2:248/319
Pfefferle Markus         A2:241/7070
Piotrowski Lothar        A2:241/6003
Pitzschel Kay            A2:243/604
Plein Olivier            A2:243/106
Ploenissen Frank         A2:246/53
Polzer Roland            A2:246/809
Prade Frank              A2:246/1355 A2:246/155 A2:246/55 A2:246/255
Prause Michael           A2:243/101
Preiss Wolfgang          A2:2400/702
Prem Rainer              A2:248/18
Proestler Dieter         A2:242/11
Puetz Thomas             A2:2400/40 A2:2400/902 A2:2400/41
Puls Roman               A2:242/46
Punga-Kronbergs Ralph    A2:248/152
Pusch Anton              A2:242/507
Raabe Max                A2:243/97
FidoNews 10-35                 Page: 44                    30 Aug 1993

Radwan Sami              A2:241/7452 A2:241/7453
Raschke Michael          A2:2401/611
Rattay Karl-Heinz        A2:241/7801 A2:241/7804 A2:241/7800
Rausch Yves              A2:248/36
Rautenstengel Dieter     A2:240/112 A2:240/135
Reck Ralf                A2:2407/570
Reichert Torsten         A2:246/810
Reimann Ralf             A2:2401/106
Reinhard Carsten         A2:242/705
Reinhold Peter           A2:2401/713
Reisenthel Patrick       A2:246/408
Reissig Hermann          A2:2400/651
Rensch Guenter           A2:241/7537
Reuter Alexander         A2:246/568
Reuter Frederic_Ch.      A2:243/41
Rheinhold Steffen        A2:2407/900
Rieck Klaus              A2:245/126
Rieck Tobias             A2:2407/903
Ried Oliver              A2:241/2037
Riedlbauer Julian        A2:242/204
Riehm Peter              A2:242/220
Riek Daniel              A2:2402/341
Riess Peter              A2:244/48
Rietz Juergen            A2:246/404
Ringhofer Dieter         A2:241/7152
Risser Markus            A2:2400/906 A2:2400/105
Ritter Jochen            A2:247/42
Rittweger Michael        A2:242/257
Rockenstein Christoph    A2:242/15 A2:242/13 A2:242/14
Roeber Ralf              A2:241/2303 A2:241/2304
Roeckseisen Anton        A2:246/453
Roedel Thomas            A2:246/401
Roeder Tommy             A2:246/61 A2:246/62
Roeding Ulrich           A2:246/147
Roedling Markus          A2:241/7817
Roehrig Thomas           A2:241/7602
Roesler Martin           A2:246/149
Roessig Juergen          A2:240/406 A2:240/407
Rogge Stefan             A2:241/5204
Rohde Oliver             A2:246/450 A2:246/4500 A2:246/82
Rohm Dieter              A2:2407/803
Rojahn Holger            A2:2401/211
Rossner Thorsten         A2:2402/313
Rost Andreas             A2:245/55
Roth Wolfgang            A2:246/25 A2:246/6000
Rothkopf Karl-Heinz      A2:2401/208
Rudolf Harry             A2:247/231
Rudolph Gisbert          A2:2401/120
Rudorf Harald            A2:245/150 A2:245/141
Rueffer Frank            A2:242/311
Ruettinger Michael       A2:2400/19
Rueve Michael            A2:243/72
Runge Wolfgang           A2:242/19
Rupp Torsten             A2:241/7506
Rzympowski Axel          A2:245/401
FidoNews 10-35                 Page: 45                    30 Aug 1993

Sachsse Stefan           A2:248/104
Sack Oliver              A2:2400/36
Sansone Frank            A2:244/24 A2:244/30 A2:244/31 A2:244/25
Santospirito Martin      A2:241/7460
Sarp Wolfgang            A2:242/339
Sasse Joerg              A2:2401/506
Savignano Metin          A2:2407/481 A2:2407/48
Schaarschmidt Bernhard   A2:246/22
Schaefer Klaus           A2:245/140 A2:245/0
Schaefer Thomas          A2:241/7534
Schaefer Werner          A2:246/102
Scharff Winfried         A2:241/7608
Scharfy Thomas           A2:2407/401 A2:2407/402
Schatz Matthias          A2:2400/402
Schaudt Stefan           A2:241/2030 A2:241/2014
Schauer Thomas           A2:246/124 A2:246/125 A2:246/326
Schauf Dieter            A2:242/5160
Schauff Wolfgang         A2:243/6
Schaufler Wilfried       A2:241/7154
Scheffer Peter           A2:242/33 A2:242/32 A2:242/30
Scheiber Leonhard        A2:244/37
Schellhase Kurt          A2:2403/58
Scherer Holger           A2:247/182
Scheungrab Robert        A2:246/36
Schiele Stefan           A2:246/154 A2:246/153
Schiffers Oliver         A2:242/5113
Schiffers Ralf           A2:241/5202
Schikowski Joerg         A2:2407/2000
Schikowski Uwe           A2:2407/2 A2:2407/0 A2:2407/1
Schildbach Andreas       A2:246/146 A2:246/446 A2:246/46
Schiradin Roland         A2:247/164
Schirm Uwe               A2:246/120
Schischefsky Frank       A2:240/405
Schlagner Andreas        A2:242/519
Schlangen Thomas         A2:242/500 A2:242/506
Schlia Norbert           A2:248/508 A2:248/500 A2:248/504
Schlierf Werner          A2:245/49
Schmelzer Thomas         A2:241/3409
Schmickler Dieter        A2:2402/317
Schmidt Erik             A2:242/42 A2:242/41
Schmidt Michael          A2:2400/830
Schmidt Oliver           A2:246/157
Schmidtke Guenter        A2:2407/301
Schmitt Bruno            A2:248/155
Schmitt Hjalmar          A2:246/501
Schmitt Markus           A2:249/150
Schmitz Michael          A2:245/38 A2:245/600
Schmitz Torsten          A2:242/29
Schneck Henning          A2:2400/32
Schneider Andreas        A2:242/403
Schneider Gerd           A2:248/305
Schneider Heinz          A2:245/33
Schneider Ralf           A2:247/30 A2:247/0
Schnelleke Rene          A2:242/104
Schnitter Peter          A2:246/307
FidoNews 10-35                 Page: 46                    30 Aug 1993

Schnuerle Jochen         A2:2407/91 A2:2407/92 A2:2407/9 A2:2407/90
..                      A2:2407/93
Schoeffel Gerald         A2:247/101
Schoeling Marco          A2:241/2316
Schoellhorn Klaus        A2:246/40
Schoen Michael           A2:246/242
Schoenrock Uwe           A2:246/666
Scholl Stefan            A2:242/24 A2:242/23
Scholz Werner            A2:2400/15
Schork Oliver            A2:2403/60
Schorsch Andreas         A2:2401/500 A2:2401/501 A2:2401/505
Schrage Edwin            A2:240/109 A2:240/108
Schramm Karsten          A2:246/66
Schramm Manfred          A2:2401/200 A2:2401/202
Schreiber Henning        A2:2401/712
Schreiner Andreas        A2:246/603
Schroeder Andreas        A2:241/7514
Schroeder Frank          A2:2401/308 A2:2401/313
Schroeer Carsten         A2:242/108
Schuermann Gordian       A2:241/2022 A2:241/2008 A2:241/2027
Schuhardt Frank          A2:247/160
Schuhmayr Dirk           A2:246/43
Schulte Michael          A2:242/87
Schulz Norbert           A2:242/306
Schuster Emil            A2:2407/74
Schuster Gerd            A2:241/5220
Schwab Martin            A2:246/21 A2:246/221
Schwabedissen Oliver     A2:240/29
Schwarz Axel             A2:246/128
Schwarz Christian        A2:246/51
Schwedhelm Marino        A2:246/302
Schweigart Alexander     A2:246/119
Schweser Marc            A2:242/17
Seeling Thomas           A2:248/112
Seidel Thorsten          A2:242/55 A2:242/99
Seif Juergen             A2:240/104 A2:240/131
Seifert Tommes           A2:2407/800
Seiz Christian           A2:241/7601
Sell Joerg-Stefan        A2:242/405
Seuss Andy               A2:248/325
Seuss Bodo               A2:2400/805
Sieber Michael           A2:242/260
Sihn Christian           A2:242/349
Silkeit Klaus            A2:242/68 A2:242/69
Simms Clarence           A2:241/6013
Simon Dominik            A2:246/604
Simper Roland            A2:246/777
Singer Marco             A2:241/7459
Sittmann Klaus           A2:246/34
Skilandat Marcus         A2:2407/802
Sonne Ingo               A2:241/3412
Sperl Armin              A2:2400/37
Spinger Carsten          A2:245/124
Stamm Markus             A2:2400/700
Starck Bastian           A2:241/2015
FidoNews 10-35                 Page: 47                    30 Aug 1993

Staudacher Michael       A2:246/702
Steiger Ralf             A2:248/30
Steinbach Roland         A2:246/308
Steinbild Burchard       A2:2400/71
Steinmetz Harald         A2:248/321
Steins Alexander         A2:246/170
Stelter Christian        A2:241/2013
Stelzig Heinz            A2:248/509
Stengel Joerg            A2:246/405
Stephan Daniel           A2:241/7660
Stickler Michael         A2:248/42
Stieger Ingmar           A2:246/3030
Stimpel Thomas           A2:2407/49
Stoevesandt Heiko        A2:241/2308
Storck Dominik           A2:2405/334
Strang W.Ronald          A2:242/5108
Straub Karl              A2:244/38
Streeck Heiko            A2:242/107
Stricker Marcus          A2:2401/107
Stricker Rudolf          A2:246/9999
Strunz Robin             A2:242/520
Stuebner Gregor          A2:2407/81 A2:2407/84 A2:2407/8 A2:2407/80
..                      A2:2407/82 A2:2407/83
Stult Helmut             A2:246/11
Stumpf Michael           A2:2400/35
Stupp Alfred             A2:241/6007
Sturm Achim              A2:241/2202
Sucher Howard            A2:247/83
Synak Christian          A2:241/7922
Tenbrock Karl            A2:2401/210
Teufel Steffen           A2:244/51
Thalmann Michael         A2:242/73
Thelen Klaus-Dieter      A2:2401/0 A2:2401/1 A2:2401/100 A2:2401/111
Thiel Peter              A2:248/301
Thiele Christian         A2:246/79
Thieme Rolf              A2:243/95
Thienen Volker_v         A2:2403/53
Thierschmidt Peter       A2:2407/45
Tholen Dieter            A2:241/2026
Tismer Berndt            A2:2407/12 A2:2407/13
Tobin Stefan             A2:2401/710
Toobe Stefan             A2:247/655
Treusch Dirk             A2:2405/77
Tusk Carsten             A2:242/5114
Uhr Dietmar              A2:243/0 A2:243/1 A2:243/35
Ulmer Andreas            A2:2400/21
Umlauf Horst             A2:242/106
Unger Guido              A2:242/5118
Unger Peter              A2:242/5106
Unnewehr Raimund         A2:242/103
Vohlken Hermann          A2:241/2010
Volk Georg               A2:244/39
Vollring Lutz            A2:240/408
Vonrhein Christoph       A2:2407/501 A2:2407/5 A2:2407/500 A2:2407/502
..                      A2:2407/503 A2:2407/504
FidoNews 10-35                 Page: 48                    30 Aug 1993

Wacker Karsten           A2:245/307
Wagner Eberhard          A2:244/54
Wagner Juergen           A2:241/7155
Wagner Wolfgang          A2:246/112
Wahl Hans                A2:245/112 A2:245/132 A2:245/131 A2:245/118
..                      A2:245/130
Waibel Juergen           A2:2401/709
Wairer Franz             A2:248/607
Waitz Gilbert            A2:248/12
Waldmann Thomas          A2:2407/40 A2:2407/4 A2:24/99 A2:24/999
Wallner Gerald           A2:243/100
Walny C.P                A2:2407/77
Warmuth Tom              A2:242/10
Wassenich Volker         A2:242/59
Wasserhess Sebastian     A2:242/501
Wassmer Joachim          A2:2407/902 A2:2407/901
Waye Norbert             A2:241/5208
Weber Frank              A2:242/93
Weber Jens               A2:248/330
Weber Jens_P.            A2:247/180
Weber Karl_Hermann       A2:242/427
Weber Manfred            A2:243/22
Weck Stephan             A2:247/19
Wegner Gunther           A2:248/610
Weigel Karl              A2:248/302
Weihgold Jochen          A2:244/29 A2:244/35
Weindl Oliver            A2:246/45 A2:246/145
Weinmann Klaus           A2:241/7061
Weis Thomas              A2:248/403
Wettel Alexander         A2:246/567
Wetzel Dietmar           A2:248/515
Whautier Daniel          A2:241/7815
Wiemann Heinz            A2:241/5206
Wienandt Peter           A2:242/315
Wiesseckel Peter         A2:246/452
Wiezer Arnim             A2:241/2204
Wildschuetz Lothar       A2:242/550
Willig Peter             A2:2407/904
Wimmer Carsten           A2:242/53
Winter Berndt            A2:247/71
Winterer Andreas         A2:246/72
Witt Thomas              A2:240/118 A2:240/117
Witte Martin             A2:243/90
Witzens Stefan           A2:241/7455
Woehrle Juergen          A2:2407/100
Wohlrab Guenter          A2:246/169
Wolf Frank-M.            A2:241/7153
Wolf Hanstheo            A2:242/4 A2:242/27
Wolf Mathias             A2:242/117
Wolfrum Patrique         A2:241/7807
Wolter Klaus             A2:242/525
Wrage Jutta              A2:240/456
Wuensche Ulrich          A2:2401/114
Zebisch Barbara          A2:241/7607
Zeilmann Daniel          A2:2400/26 A2:2400/27
FidoNews 10-35                 Page: 49                    30 Aug 1993

Zell Volker              A2:2401/205
Zeller Wolfgang          A2:241/7053 A2:241/7050 A2:241/7051 A2:241/7052
Zerbe Uwe                A2:2407/7
Zetzmann Juergen         A2:240/402 A2:240/403 A2:240/404
Zeyen Veit               A2:242/504
Zimmermann Dieter        A2:248/20
Zuber Rainer             A2:2400/401
Zweigler Wolf-Dieter     A2:249/142
Zwilling Bernhard        A2:246/16

                        End of the roll FIDO CLASSIC


----------------------------------------------------------------------

  From: Matt Giwer                           (1:3603/326)

This is Matt Giwer speaking

    I have no access to Fido sysop chat areas but I have been told I
am a topic of conversation.  As such I presume I need no further
introduction.

    While acknowledging every right of every sysop, every node, every
whatever I should call them for the sake of completeness, I have a
presistant problem with moderators.  As you may know I specialize in
the controversial and political echoes.  I have opinions and political
convictions on everything, enough said.

    The problem is that moderators of such conferences also have them
which is the crux of the problem.  Too often, in fact the majority of
my 'banned in Boston' experience on Fido (and entire networks for that
matter) has been for cause of the moderator or participants
disagreeing with me rather than of rule violation.

    To paraphrase

    'other participants have said they will drop the conference if I
do not ban you'

    'you did something on another conference that was not against the
rules'

    and the most infamous

    'you did what is said but I will tell your sysop you did not.'

    I can produce messages of moderators threatening to completely
ban me from Fido because of personal friendship with higher ups in
Fido.  I will admit an empty threat perhaps but that it can be made
with impugnity is something Fido does not address.

    The issue is censorship of competing ideas.  The issue is free
speech.  I know it is good enough for the USA but not good enough for
the moderator.  I fully understand that.  At least one conference
FidoNews 10-35                 Page: 50                    30 Aug 1993

moderator has recinded censorship to save it from extinction.  (90% of
the posts from the moderator and only 202 messages in three months.)

    When one has a controversial or political conference it is the
equivalent of a KILL_MINORITIES conference and banning any discussion
of why that might not be a good idea appears a touch antithetical to
discussion.  I am aware Fido has no such overt conferences yet
(politically and controversially) I can name two offhand.  Is it my
opinion?  Certainly.  Is it the opinion of the moderator?  Equally
certain.

    Of course this bears upon who is to judge.  There are several
conferences purporting to discuss certain topics but unstated code
words must be observed.  To wit (or even three wit) Progressive means
Marxist only, Environment means pro-radical environmentalism only,
Alternative means the moderator will determine what is an alternative.

    I am fully aware of the code words and terms being used in such
political conferences.  Is my participation excessively annoying?
Interestingly that code word for the Moderator disagreeing is quite
common.  When one is disagreeing who does the disagreement truly
annoy?

    Yes, yes, my sins are numerous yet I point out their
documentation is from one source only, the moderator.  When I can
demonstrate a moderator lied to cut my access where do I go to talk
about it?  Does Fido care?  Of course not.  Judgment is too complex
and time consuming and just plain too hard.  Of course the question
becomes, who ascertains the moderator is a) qualified, b) fair, c)
honest, d) impartial, e) is not playing demigod.  Answer, no one.

    Where does anyone go when you disagree with the moderator?  There
is a major difference between "we are here to discuss aquariums" and
"we are here to discuss only the correct side of this controversial
issue."  Now fine, that is certainly the moderator's perogative IF and
ONLY IF he so states it is only to discuss a predetermined side of a
controversial issue.

    The question then becomes, does Fido countenance false conference
descriptions?  If so, why?  Indeed the question itself is
controversial.  However the parallel is Fido has determined this
article is not worthy of consideration and it will not be run.  This
is not intended to slam or threaten the publishers but rather, if you
KNEW that were the case would you continue to read FidoNews?  I would
not.  If you would, why?  (There are plenty of conceptual and
grammatical reasons not to publish this.)

    I am not going to go into any of my infamous 100 liner diatribes
against censorship.  I will only point out I have never asked for
censorship in 13 years, of any person, of any subject, of any opinion.
I point out that conferences have risked losing participants because
of permitting disagreement.  I point out that conferences have risked
losing backbone status because of censorship.

    It is more than a double edged sword.  The problem lies in the
FidoNews 10-35                 Page: 51                    30 Aug 1993

power of the moderator.

    I can also point out that spectacular success is also a "crime"
on Fido.  POLITICS became so successful in terms of message traffic
that message limitations were imposed.  May I be so bold as to suggest
the purpose of a conference is message traffic?  Where did the "this
much success and no more" come from?  Is penalizing success so
important?

    What should be the power of the moderator?  Is a concealed
purpose of a conference permitted?  Why?  Is there no place to point
out subterfuge on the part of a moderator?  Why?  Is the purpose to
inhibit discussion?  Why?

    I would expect someone could answer the whys.

    I note a policy statement of every sysop investing their own time
and money into this hobby.  I note that moderators can control sysops
and users.  Moderators do not fall into that category.  They are
completely unaddressed in any policy.

    Can anyone tell me why?
                                  Matt Giwer @ 1:3603/326


----------------------------------------------------------------------

CONTROLLING ECHO ACTIVITY...
AND ELIMINATING MODERATOR CENSORSHIP

From: Doug Wilson                          (1:351/220)

Two problems that have been evident lately are the amount of activity
in  some  echoes  and  the  role  of  moderators.   I have a possible
solution to both problems.

First, the activity problem.  Some  echoes  seem  to  sit  idle  with
almost  no activity, certainly far below the chain-reaction threshold
where good conversations perpetuate themselves and branch out.  Other
echoes  like  WRITERS  and  INTERUSER  are  so busy that it is almost
impossible to keep up with them.

One solution might be to adopt  a  hierarchical  system  like  USENET
newsgroups.   Then when an echo is relatively idle, that branch could
be collapsed, merging what few posting  remain  back  into  the  node
above.   An  echo  that  is  too busy could be split.  For example we
could have INTERUSER.GREETINGS,  INTERUSER.CURIOUS,  INTERUSER.HORNY,
and INTERUSER.SERIOUS.

But,  this  is  not the ideal system.  Rather than copying USENET, we
could try to come up with something better.  I would propose a one in
which  messages  were assigned a 32-bit code, each bit representing a
contents flag.  A particular combination of flags would correspond to
what  is now called an echo, and someone wanting to receive just that
echo, could set up the appropriate filter with just those bits set.
FidoNews 10-35                 Page: 52                    30 Aug 1993


The problem of figuring out a suitable code, i.e.  assigning  various
bits  to various purposes can be solved in this way: collect lists of
the echoes carried by various BBS's, then represent this as  a  large
sparse  matrix.   The result is probably too big to work on directly,
but can be manually split-up and recombined later.  On  pieces  large
enough  to  work with, do a factor analyis (Karhunen-Loeve Expansion)
to find the most significant factors.  Pick the several of  the  most
significant  factors  and  do  a  Varimax  rotation to distribute the
variance equally amongst these factors.

The result should be a code that is close enough to reality to  allow
most  SysOps  to  get  almost  exactly  the  same set of message they
currently get by setting the appropriate flags.  I'd be happy  to  do
this analysis, if someone can figure out how to collect the data.

Now,  let me turn to the second issue, assuming the first one solved.
I think the moderators role should be  limited  to  changing  certain
bits  in  the 32-bit code representing each message.  Suppose someone
is writing in what is for all practical purposes still an  echo,  but
is now coded by flags such as:

+ Computers, + Social, - Political, + Technical, x News

which  is  about social and technical issues re:computers, but is not
political.  If a person posts a political message, the moderator  can
change  the bit, and the message is now classified as + Political. If
the person posts an obscene or abusive message,  the  moderator  will
flag it + Obscene and/or + Abusive.  Most boards will filter out such
messages, some will seek them out, but there is no actual  censorship
being done.  Messages are simply flagged for content.

But  ...  meanwhile  all  the messages have been distributed over the
network, with the wrong code.  What can we do about  that?   Well,  I
think the system should support code-change messages from moderators.

To  do  this, I think we need to associate with each message a unique
identifier.  We can create one by compounding the node address of the
BBS  the  message  was posted on with a serial number provided by the
BBS.  A moderator could now work like this: upon reading the messages
posted  to his or her echo (i.e. flagged appropriately) the moderator
finds unsuitable messages and sends out  a  short,  net-wide  message
which  contains  the  message  ID  and the new code.  Upon receipt of
these messages, individual BBS's will change the codes of messages if
these message exist on their boards.

I think something like this would solve many problems and allow for a
system that worked better and had  fewer  problems.   I'd  appreciate
comments  on  this,  but  I  would  prefer  you  to  view  this  as a
contribution to a brainstorming session.   Brainstorming  works  best
when we all agree to try to come up with our own ideas, and not shoot
down other people's.  I'd be interested in detailed technical  advice
or  suggestions,  or  anybody  else's  ideas  for  solving  the  same
problems, but I am not particularly  interested  in  hearing  why  my
ideas  are  worthless  and why these supposed problems are not really
FidoNews 10-35                 Page: 53                    30 Aug 1993

problems at all but features of the system.


----------------------------------------------------------------------

ARJ, ZIP, et al stupidity.
 --------------------------

  From: CARLOS BAZAN                         (4:975/4)

 I have been following up the development of Zip versus ARJ versus all
other compressors "quarrel". Your results show savings of 1 % or 10 K,
or something like that in each test you all have been doing of one
compressor over the other. The fact is, I have been seeing not one, but
several of these tests in each issue of FidoNews I have received. I may
even add, I haven't been receiving FidoNews for a long time. Fidonews
circulates around the world, in whichever format you want, ZIP or ARJ,
but the thing is, we could be saving some space omitting all those
tests, and therefore, we will be saving transmission time. That 1 % or
10 K you are showing can be saved if you keep your tests to yourselves.
We can all try compressing a 2 meg Graphic. We can all take 22 files and
compress them. I think you are wasting your time, since I don't think
the change will actually occur. You can not change the minds of 24000+
network Sysops.

 Please route all flames to Carlos Bazan 4:975/4.

 Thanks.

 Carlos Bazan,
 Sysop INTER-BBS Mexico.


----------------------------------------------------------------------

NEWSLETTERS AND THE FIDONET

by: Jason Robertson  (1:250/802.2)

    Looking through the Fidonet, I find it hard to believe that
Newsletter are not widely produced.  There are many in existence, but
not on many of the topic areas that there could be, or there basis
are not within the Fidonet.

    These Electronic Newsletters, could increase knowledge of echoes
to the casual passer-by or the avid user.  There could be much in the
way of success in these media forms for the publishers as many of the
Newsletters, could get advertising, to provide the user with an
up-to-date price guide, opinions, ideas, help, and others ideas.

    This system would be idea for many echoes to use, such as echo
would be the Photo echo.  This would give people help in the area of
Photography, testing of equipment, New Releases, Editorial, Price
Guides, and sent in the form of an archive to systems, this gives
that chance for the Readers, the Participants to display their
FidoNews 10-35                 Page: 54                    30 Aug 1993

abilities, and work.

    Other echoes could use differing set-ups and differing ideas,
but this also gives the participants a method to express him/herself
to a large group.  This in time may expand to included on many other
systems that may or may not include the Network, or echo that the
Newsletter Originated from.

Though Newsletter are good for many echoes to spread information,
this also is not an ideal for all echoes.

So, would-be editors, beware as not all ideas are feasible so do
your homework first.


----------------------------------------------------------------------


----------------------------------------------------------------------

========================================================================
                         Fidonews Information
========================================================================

------- FIDONEWS MASTHEAD AND CONTACT INFORMATION ----------------

Editors: Sylvia Maxwell, Donald Tees, Tim Pozar
Editors Emeritii: Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell, Vince Perriello,
                            Tom Jennings

IMPORTANT NOTE: The FidoNet address of the FidoNews BBS has been
changed!!! Please make a note of this.

"FidoNews" BBS
   FidoNet  1:1/23
   BBS  +1-519-570-4176,  300/1200/2400/14400/V.32bis/HST(DS)
Internet addresses:
   Don & Sylvia    (submission address)
             [email protected]

   Sylvia -- [email protected]
   Donald -- [email protected]
   Tim    -- [email protected]

(Postal Service mailing address) (have extreme patience)
   FidoNews
   172 Duke St. E.
   Kitchener, Ontario
   Canada
   N2H 1A7

Published weekly by and for the members of the FidoNet international
amateur electronic mail system. It is a compilation of individual
articles contributed by their authors or their authorized agents. The
contribution of articles to this compilation does not diminish the
FidoNews 10-35                 Page: 55                    30 Aug 1993

rights of the authors. Opinions expressed in these articles are those
of the authors and not necessarily those of FidoNews.

Authors retain copyright on individual works; otherwise FidoNews is
copyright 1993 Sylvia Maxwell. All rights reserved.  Duplication and/or
distribution permitted for noncommercial purposes only. For use in
other circumstances, please contact the original authors, or FidoNews
(we're easy).


OBTAINING COPIES: The-most-recent-issue-ONLY of FidoNews in electronic
form may be obtained from the FidoNews BBS via manual download or
Wazoo FileRequest, or from various sites in the FidoNet and Internet.
PRINTED COPIES may be obtained from Fido Software for $10.00US each
PostPaid First Class within North America, or $13.00US elsewhere,
mailed Air Mail. (US funds drawn upon a US bank only.)

INTERNET USERS: FidoNews is available via FTP from ftp.ieee.org, in
directory ~ftp/pub/fidonet/fidonews. If you have questions regarding
FidoNet, please direct them to [email protected], not the
FidoNews BBS. (Be kind and patient; David Deitch is generously
volunteering to handle FidoNet/Internet questions.)

SUBMISSIONS: You are encouraged to submit articles for publication in
FidoNews. Article submission requirements are contained in the file
ARTSPEC.DOC, available from the FidoNews BBS, or Wazoo filerequestable
from 1:1/23 as file "ARTSPEC.DOC". Please read it.

"Fido", "FidoNet" and the dog-with-diskette are U.S. registered
trademarks of Tom Jennings, and are used with permission.

   Asked what he thought of Western civilization,
   M.K. Gandhi said, "I think it would be an excellent idea".
-- END
----------------------------------------------------------------------


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