F I D O N E W S -- Vol.10 No.32 (09-Aug-1993)

F I D O N E W S -- Vol.10 No.32 (09-Aug-1993)
+----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
| A newsletter of the | |
| FidoNet BBS community | Published by: |
| _ | |
| / \ | "FidoNews" BBS |
| /|oo \ | +1-519-570-4176 1:1/23 |
| (_| /_) | |
| _`@/_ \ _ | Editors: |
| | | \ \\ | Sylvia Maxwell 1:221/194 |
| | (*) | \ )) | Donald Tees 1:221/192 |
| |__U__| / \// | Tim Pozar 1:125/555 |
| _//|| _\ / | |
| (_/(_|(____/ | |
| (jm) | Newspapers should have no friends. |
| | -- JOSEPH PULITZER |
+----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
| Submission address: editors 1:1/23 |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Internet addresses: |
| |
| Sylvia -- [email protected] |
| Donald -- [email protected] |
| Tim -- [email protected] |
| Both Don & Sylvia (submission address) |
| [email protected] |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| For information, copyrights, article submissions, |
| obtaining copies and other boring but important details, |
| please refer to the end of this file. |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
========================================================================
Table of Contents
========================================================================

1. Editorial..................................................... 2
2. Articles...................................................... 2
How to use the Internet Through FidoNet..................... 2
Professional Volunteers..................................... 3
PRIME and HOLY_BIBLE, The Wholly Bible Echo................. 4
Announcing the Horror Fiction Echo.......................... 6
A Better Moderator Bureau?.................................. 6
Just a user................................................. 7
Holy Policy................................................. 9
Announcing IndraNet......................................... 10
Original Subj : XAB Complaint threatened.................... 11
ARJ vs ZIP, the Real Story?................................. 11
FIDONET CARES............................................... 12
AND ON A SLIGHTLY MYSTICAL NOTE............................. 13
3. Fidonews Information.......................................... 13
FidoNews 10-32 Page: 2 09 Aug 1993

========================================================================
Editorial
========================================================================
Editing is a weird job. Especially for the Snooze. One
really neat thing about it is we get lots of mail from
everywhere and it's all different. Someone suggested we
re-start running a list of software available for different
machines to connect to the net. Sounds like a good plan. Any
volunteers for compiling software lists?

We were sittng on the floor in an art gallery yesterday
having a party, and someone told me she felt very odd looking at
paintings she didn't necessarily like while feeling she had to
say something about them. I asked, "why bother talking if you
don't say what you mean?".

Of course, back patting is kind and occasionally generative,
reinforcement is humanely pleasant; enforcement looks very
similar and can be rather sinister.

Civility is a fine dance on an uneven floor with everyone in
costumes.
========================================================================
Articles
========================================================================
How to use the Internet Through FidoNet
by Matt Riedel, 1:2606/[email protected]

Many people either don't know there is a way to do this,
and others know there is a way, and just don't know how.
To send e-mail through FidoNet to the InterNet, is quite
simple. The major FidoNet Gateway to the Internet is at
1:1/[email protected]. Address a netmail message to the recipient
in the InterNet style addressing scheme. When it asks the FidoNet
address, put 1:1/31. Then just put your subject and message as usual.
Here is a sample message:
Fr.: Matt Riedel, 1:2606/[email protected]
To: [email protected], 1:1/[email protected]
Subj.: Hi!
===============================================================
Hi! This is my message.

or, this is an alternative way:
Fr.: Matt Riedel, 1:2606/[email protected]
To: Hostmaster, 1:1/[email protected]
Subj.: Hi!
===============================================================
To: [email protected]
<skip this line!!>
Hi! This is my message.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As a member of FidoNet, you automatically get an InterNet address.
It is a universal form that is quite simple to remember. its:

FidoNews 10-32 Page: 3 09 Aug 1993

<FirstName>.<LastName>@f(node#).n(Net#).z(zone#).fidonet.org
or, if you are a point:
<FirstName>.<LastName>@p(point#).f(node#).n(net#).z(zone#).fidonet.org

Note: 1:1/31 is the official FidoNet<->InterNet gateway. There are
others around, if you look. 1:1/31 is in Piscataway, NJ, and if
your hub/host allows you to route netmail, you may do it that way.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Professional Volunteers

Professional Volunteers
by: Dave Maddux @ 1:3625/443

In more than a few articles and throughout the mails we are
reminded that Fidonet is "only a hobby" and that the mail moves
through the efforts of many "unpaid volunteers." This seems to
mean different things to different people. This is what it means
to me.

In a recent article I heard Fidonet described as a "social net"
and that a "profession is exactly what Fidonet is not." In the
same issue another author described it as a "cooperative network"
and had some other things to say about responsibilities. These
views do not necessarily conflict. Nor do I disagree.

Although I'm a newcomer to this hobby I do know something about
being an unpaid volunteer. I have been involved with volunteer
organizations for more than a few years at all levels from grunt
to administration. From that viewpoint I will make the following
observations.

1) Fidonet performs a service. No matter whether Fidonet is
a social net, cooperative net, only a hobby, or is run by
amateur volunteers; nor does it matter that no sysop is obligated
to provide it. It is still a service.

2) Sysops provide that service. We make it work and
BBS users view us as service providers. I do realize that all nodes
are not BBSs but most are and for the purposes of this discussion
that point is irrelevant.

3) The one thing (perhaps the only thing) that distinguishes any
service is the professionalism practiced by its providers.
Working without pay or simply being an amateur has never been an
acceptable reason for unprofessionalism when one is providing
a service to others.

4) It makes no difference whether we wish our service to be
"distinguished" or even feel obligated to act professionally.
If we don't we are still seen by those users in the light
of what we do.

I would hope that most sysops are concerned that they provide
FidoNews 10-32 Page: 4 09 Aug 1993

their users and the net with the best service possible. If that is
not our primary concern then what is, having fun? Great! Any
hobby should be fun. The fact remains that if we are having fun
at the expense of someone else or we can't get the job done for
having fun then we cut ourselves and the net down to a crappy size.
No less so if we spend much of our energy quarreling with each other.

Recently, I did a dumb thing. I won't go into the details except
to say that it was the result of my not having considered the rules
more earnestly. Quite a few Fido folks corrected me in this matter
and they were right to do so. It is my responsibility to know the
rules and abide by them. I thanked them for my chastisement,
apologized for my lack of professionalism, and promised not to make
the same mistake again. I was a little embarrassed. I'm learning.
It's still fun.

I don't think I'm a "control junkie." I tend to agree with those
who feel Policy 4 could easily be 4 pages long. Professionalism
does not imply control; it simply means getting the job done
and doing it the absolute best that I can without letting emotions
or petty things get in the way. Isn't that something like not being
too easily annoyed?"

----------------------------------------------------------------------

PRIME and HOLY_BIBLE, The Wholly Bible Echo
Steve Winter
FidoNet 1:18/98

Those who want false christianity or a visit with infidels certainly
have several networks and echos available, but if any are interested
in "non-compromised" Apostolic Christianity, I encourage you to check
out PRIME. As far as the reprobate oneness nets go, I believe the
Lord allready rated them just a tad below a dunghill.

Luke 14:34 Salt [is] good: but if the salt have lost his savour,
wherewith shall it be seasoned?
Luke 14:35 It is neither fit for the land, nor yet for the dunghill;
[but] men cast it out. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

If you are interested in a network where truth is not compromised
for the sake of false christian fellowship and "friendship with
the world", check out PRIME:

Please spread this info around. Thanks!!

***************************************************************
* __________ __________ ___ ________ *
* | | | | | |\ /| | *
* | | | | | | \ / | | *
* |________| |________| | | \ / | |______ *
* | | \ | | \/ | | *
* | | \ | | | | *
* | | \ | | | | *
* | | \ _|_ | | |_______ *
FidoNews 10-32 Page: 5 09 Aug 1993

* *
* 'The sun never sets on the PRIME network' *
***************************************************************
* PreRapture(tm) International Message Exchange *
***************************************************************
With nodes in NORTH AMERICA, AFRICA, EUROPE, ASIA, and growing.

PRIME is the Only True Christian worldwide network on earth.
* Both Religious (Christian) and non-religious conferences. *
A wholesome, family oriented network with a strict policy
against profanity, lewdness, obscenity etc..
Features echos on educational and technical topics.
* Elaborate Bible Discussion and Debate * False Preachers Exposed *
919-286-3962 * 919-286-3606 * 919-286-3266 * 919-286-2100
Using USRobotics Dual Standard Modems V.32bis-14,400 / HST-16800bps
* FREQ PRIME.ZIP from 1:18/98, or 6:700/447 for network kit *

-={ HOLY_BIBLE Echo Conference }=-
Available through the PRIME Network and
on the FidoNet Zone 1 and Zone 2 Backbone
* The only true Christian Conference in FidoNet *

********
Acts 2:38 *++++++* John 3:5
*+ ** +*
**************+ ** +*************
*+++++++++++ ++++++++++*
*+ ******* HOLY_BIBLE ****** +*
*+++++++++++ ++++++++++*
**************+ ** +*************
*+ ** +*
Gal 1:8 *+ ** +* Mark 12:29
*+ ** +*
I Tim 3:16 *+ ** +* Acts 2:4
*+ ** +*
Isa 45:21 *+ ** +* Mark 16:16
*+ ** +*
Acts 10:46 *++++++* Acts 19:5
********
Hebrews 5:9 Acts 22:16 James 1:22

HOLY_BIBLE and WHOLLY_BIBLE (C)Copyright 1988-93 Steve Winter,
All rights reserved worldwide (with contributers
retaining all rights to their contributions)
A very strict conference designed to expose fakes
by requiring that doctrines be proven with scripture.
FidoNews 10-32 Page: 6 09 Aug 1993

Announcing the Horror Fiction Echo

by Steve Derby, 1:161/414
Horror Fiction echo now available

Do you like to be scared? Want to talk about that novel you read which
kept you up all night wondering if something under the bed was going to
come out and spirit you away into the night? Would you like to read
reviews and comments about horror movies before spending your money to
see them?

There's a new echo now available to all fans of horror fiction. The
HORROR echo is dedicated to discussion of horror fiction of all types.
The echolist description pretty much says it all:

The Horror echo is designed for discussion of contemporary and classic
horror in all media: novels, short stories, films, magazines, TV,
radio, comics, etc. Discussion topics include announcements, reviews,
critiques and general chatter and discussion. Something for all horror
fans! While posting of original creative works is not the *primary*
purpose of this echo, that's certainly allowed, too.

Anyone interested in receiving HORROR, please netmail Steve Derby @
1:161/414.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

A Better Moderator Bureau?

by Steve Derby, 1:161/414
Comments on "Moderator Guides Recommended" in Snooze 10(31)

In the recent Fidonews, Kent Anderson proposed a practice which he
hoped would better echomail. In essence, his idea was to formulate a
set of voluntary guidelines which would advise moderators in how to
conduct echomail business. Under Kent's plan, those moderators who
chose to follow these guidelines and wished to advertise it, could
have a notation added to the echolist. The idea is inspired, but has
some problems which need to be addressed.

Kent's plan can be divided into two basic parts, which should be
looked at separately: (1) The development of guidelines for echo
moderators and (2) flagging moderators which agree to follow the
guidelines.

First, developing guidelines. Some moderators resist the suggestion
that others should be able to tell them how to run their echos, and
with good reason--some of the decisions moderators have to make just
don't fit easily into any one "policy" box. However, the way things
stand now (with the essentially useless BOP), users don't have any
recourse if they feel they've been treated unfairly by a moderator.
Like anyone else, moderators make mistakes and occassionally exercise
poor judgement.
FidoNews 10-32 Page: 7 09 Aug 1993

For this reason, I feel that it would be very appropriate to develop
some basic guidelines (voluntary or otherwise) for echos. Rather than
telling a moderator what to do, though, it seems more logical to develop
guidelines from the standpoint of an echo user. At the very least,
2 things should happen. First, moderators should always be able to
document any disciplinary action they take. It seems that every few
weeks there's an article in the snooze from someone claiming that
such-and-such moderator kicked him or her out of whatever echo for no
reason. Second, folks should have somewhere to appeal to if they feel
they've been treated unfairly by a moderator. Whoever the apealee is,
though, should only be able to reinstate a cut node or person. Giving
them the power to remove or discipline a moderator is just inviting
trouble.

Switching to flagging adhering (enough "ing" words for you?)
moderators in the echolist. I think this is a bad idea. No matter what
set of guidelines is developed, there are going to be those who
disagree with the document, many with perfectly legitimate reasons.
Singling out those persons who do and do not agree with that specific
set implies a value judgement on those echos and those moderators. Why
brand folks without giving them a chance to explain *why* they don't
want to ally themselves? The best way to decide how good an echo is
isn't to look for a notation the echolist, it's to join it for a while
and make a decision based on first-hand experience.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Just a user
From: Rodger Donaldson (3:771/410)

Now, I'm "just" a FidoNet user. Not a sysop, not even a point.
I haven't even been on Fido for that long-maybe 6 months or so.
I count myself as an enthusiast though, so I'm sorta concerned
about the problems in Europe. I mean, when a couple of hundred
nodes dissapear-hundreds of systems, maybe thousands of users
like me, no longer able to enjoy this hobby of ours-I'd tend to
assume there had to be a pretty good reason, especially when the
same thing happening in Germany is gonna happen in the UK soon.

I've always been told I'm rather intelligent. But, try as I
might, I can't work out why this is happening. I've taken a
squizz at policy 4, followed the debates in FidoNews, and
chatted with my Sysop about it. Still doesn't make sense.

Why, I ask myself, is this GeoNet thing floating around? The
only reason I've been able to discern so far is that it makes
things work better in Zone 1. Even on that score, there seem to
be more than a few people over there who are unenthusiastic
about it; but even assuming it _does_ work better in Z1, why
does that mean it should be rammed down the rest of the planet's
throat, like it or not? Here in Z3, we just voted to change to
LHA as our standard NodeDiff compressor. Works for us, right?
(Well, there's one bloke with an Archimedes for whom it doesn't,
FidoNews 10-32 Page: 8 09 Aug 1993

but I'm sure a work-around will be arranged). Maybe, though, it
wouldn't for everyone else-maybe everyone else wants Arc. Fine,
who are we to impose our solutions on everyone else? Heck, if
our ZC was like Z2's, the guy with the Arch would be kicked off
for not having a port or LHA available! But that would be
silly, right? If he can find someone willing to convert the
NodeDiff to Arc, why should he be excluded, right?

Anyone starting to notice something here? That maybe the
solution to this particular problem, archive format, is going to
come about with a little good will and application of a modicum
of good sense? Both to the Arch owner, and to Z3's desire to go
LHA vs. the rest of the world's desire to keep using ARC? Seems
to work, right? Better than a holy Jihad based around a narrow
interpratation of the rules. Heck, the decision was made by
vote!

So, I'm at a loss to understand the GeoNet thing. Was there a
zone-wide vote for change in Z2, or a vote in any of the
regions? Nope, don't look like it from here. Is it causing
problems? Well, I guess I'd call over 800 nodes, at last count,
leaving Fido a "problem". Is it making it work any better?
Well, forcing people who perhaps don't like each other to work
together, adding $$$ (DM, actually) to the cost of persuing a
hobby, and cutting off a significant number of people altogether
doesn't sound better to me!

So why is it being done? I don't see any application of that
common sense I mentioned before happening here! So, could
someone, anyone, preferably a driving force behind this change,
kindly explain why this is being done? Not by beating me over
the head with a rulebook-because, in the real world, stupid laws
usually get changed-but by explaining its practical benefits?

Maybe if it's impossible to do that, the GeoNet idea really _is_
stupid, at least in some parts of the world. And maybe if it is
stupid, so are the rules that mandate it. And maybe, just
maybe, they should be abandoned, or, at least, fine tuned to
make them work a little better for *all* FidoNetters...sysops,
users, and *Cs alike. Because this is-as I understand it,
anyway-a world wide hobby, kept going by a bunch of dedicated
people-the sysops-and supported by avid fans-the users. And
maybe it should look-and act-a little more like that.

Just a thought, anyway.

Rodger Donaldson, 3:771/410.
FidoNews 10-32 Page: 9 09 Aug 1993

Holy Policy
From: Stanton McCandlish (1:301/2)
To: editors (1:1/23)

1) The reliance on Holy Policy in this net is appalling. When a
network considers following a largely arbitary pile of rules to the
letter, regardless of their [lack of] logic, and applicability to the
situation at hand, to the detriment of an entire region of the world,
SOMETHING IS VERY WRONG. I urge that people no only support German
sysops resisting the coming of PolicyNazis(TM) to their area, but I
also urge everyone in Fido to DEMAND a new policy. Is there anyone
near me getting the alternative nodediffs with the original R24
structure intact? I want it and will be happy to make it available
to all comers.

2) It's time we moved on to a domainist addressing scheme. This
nodediff business is an anachronism, and is threatening not only the
fabric of the net, as it tears itself apart, due to the ludicrosity
of a setup that allows a handful of people to ruin whole regions, but
also threatens the viability of the net itself, given the size of the
nodediffs, and the fact that one has to keep a 2+ megabyte nodelist
lying around. On my system, the NL, and it's FD index files take up
about 60k short of FIVE MEGABYTES. Just ridiculous.

3) ARC must go. If you added up the money WASTED in this network,
total, carting around archives that are 30% or so larger than they
need be, it comes out to a VERY large amount. Just doing some
guesstimated math:

VERY conservative estimate of mail costs per month due to feeding
CRPs and paying phone bills: US$5

Thus at about 30% wasted, that's about US$1.70 per month, per person.
At roughly 22,000 sysops, that's US$37,000 per MONTH, or US$444,000
per year. When one considers that many systems have mail bills that
are several HUNDRED dollars per month, you can see how conservative
this estimate is, even if you lop off some of that 30% to account for
time spent in modem connection negotiation, and the passing of
handshake packets.

Stop all this "compatibility whining". Use PK[Un]Zip. If you don't
have an IBM clone, get InfoZip, which is FULLY PKZip 2.04g
compatible, and is availalble compiled for DOS, Windows, Mac, Amiga,
VMS, OS/2 (16- and 32-bit), and more besides, and is also availble in
source code format so you can port it to your Acorn Archimedes RISC,
NeXT, DEC, Sun, or whatever. No more excuses, sorry. You can FREQ
the source from me, nodelisted or not, Fido or not, as ZIP19P1.ZIP.

4) Ignore silly tests like that Arj vs Zip one. Arj and Zip are both
fine formats that do a good job. Arj beats Zip in some cases, and
fails to do so in others. Zipping up one 2 meg file is NOT an
adequate test.

5) Since Tom Jennings does happen to hold copyright on the nodelist,
FidoNews 10-32 Page: 10 09 Aug 1993

perhaps, if he sees the R24 situation as the screwy mess we all do,
he should attempt to use this ownership of said document to force
some changes that are in concurrence with what appears to be a
majority of the people in R24? Just a thought.

8) nuff said. Please direct all flames to 2:24/0, and cc them to
2:2/0.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Announcing IndraNet
From: Stanton McCandlish (1:301/2)
To: Editor (1:1/23)

-=>Announcing IndraNet!<=-

What have we got? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ About 30 echos, ranging from
computer tech, cyberspace/networking, UFOs and scientific debate,
through genealogy, D&D, and Celtic myth, to modems, TriBBS support,
marketplaces, and creative writing.

The freedom to say what you like, where you like, in the manner you
like.

The right to control your own system, to join any net you wish, to be
a hub regardless of any other hubs near you, and to start a new net
or echo at any time.

Great discussion, great attitudes, great people, great systems.

Nodes in 4 states and 4 countries, growing all the time.

Support for Fido formats as zone 369, plus support for QWK format
mail.

What DON'T we have? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ NO *C's. The only "position"
in the net is that of nodelist maker, which does nothing but make a
nodelist.

NO MODERATORS. Participants police themselves, just like in UseNet
(the world's largest online conference network, with several MILLION
users worldwide. It works. The shoe fits, so we wear it.)

NO FASCISTS. NO ONE can tell you what to do, where to feed, what to
call your board, when your system is operating, who you may give net
access to, or anything else.

NO CENSORSHIP. Period. Ever.

NO POLICY DOCS. Our rules are simple: take responsibility for
yourself, don't flame when a reasonable debate is more useful to all
involved, do not attempt to abridge the rights of others, do not
restrict others' access to the net. That's it.

FidoNews 10-32 Page: 11 09 Aug 1993

Does it work? Sure does! And you can be a part of it.

For an info packet, containing nodelist, echolist, application, &
newsletter, FREQ magicname INDRANET from NitV, 1:301/2. To get this
list by BBS download (e.g. if you are QWK system), call NitV at
+1-505-246-8515, N81, 1200-14400 v32b v42b, 24 hr., and look for
IN!?????.ZIP in the BBS-NET file area.

See ya online!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

XAB Complaint threatened
From: Paul Dickie (2:256/62)
To: The Editors (1:221/192)
Subject: XAB Complaint threatened

Greetings!

This was sent to me, by a sysop in 250. I shall make no further
comment about it, for no further comment is needed...

======================================================================
Original Area : NET_250_SYSOP (NET_250_SYSOP)
Original From : Paul Carroll, 2:250/412 (30 Jul 93 15:00)
Original To : All
Original Subj : XAB Complaint threatened
=====================================================================
Hi All,

This is to advise you all that ZC Dwight has threatened an XAB
complaint against me because of some inaccuracies in my recent
article in FidoNews. I have sent another article to FidoNews
correcting these incaccuracies: whether this placates Dwight remains
to be seen.

So if 250/412 disappears from the nodelist, you'll know why.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

ARJ vs ZIP, the Real Story?
By Clay Tinsley, 1:124/5125
Real Life Comparisons of ARJ and PkZip

>While this is great and all, it hasn't even been mentioned what file
>type is compressed and decompressed more than any other in Fidonet, day
>in and day out - the .PKT mail bundle. It would be unfair to leave
>this most popular file type out of the test.

>Let's take another sample - I rescanned 500 msgs in POLITICS to a fake
>node, and compressed the resulting 955k packet using maximum
>compression:

> ZIPMAIL ZIP 314833
> ARJMAIL ARJ 320505
FidoNews 10-32 Page: 12 09 Aug 1993

>As you can see, PkZip can save Fidonet many collective dollars each day
>though reduced long distance phone bills.

One thing here that most people seem to forget about ARJ. It has a
"Huffman Buffer" that's accessed with the "-jh" switch. It's been
hashed out in the ARJ echo for years now, and the best that people
have found is the "-jh11010".

I would ask Mr. Tinsley if he included this switch in his experiment.
Also there's the fact that ARJ keeps the paths that the file is in,
by default. To stop that, you include the "-e" switch. To illustrate
this idea, let's say you're ARJing up a sub-directory of 100 files.
They are 2 dirs deep, like this:

C:\SUB-DIR1\SUB-DIR2

ARJ will store this as SUB-DIR1\SUB-DIR2\FILENAME.EXT for EACH file.
So, taking this example, we have an extra 18 bytes per file. With 100
files, you add 1,800 bytes to the file. This is UNCOMPRESSED bytes,
as the filenames are uncompressed.

This might sound like a small nit to pick, but there are some upload
checkers that re-archive the uploads, and it keeps the FULL paths
from its temporary sub-directory. They then rename the archive, and
then, with DOS's REN command, change it to whatever it was before. (I
won't mention any program names, but I've seen this all too many
times.)

I'm not faulting Mr.s Tinsley. I'm just showing that there are a few
other things to think about when doing these comparisions.

And BTW. For straight ASCII text files, the best Huffman Buffer
setting for ARJ is "-jh65535". If needed, I can do this experiment
with the most recent nodelist, and with the proper commandlines. (And
fully document those command lines.)

I AM all for using something better than ARC, but I'd even settle for
LHA as the standard, as it saves much more space than ARC.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

FIDONET CARES

by Jerry Seward
New Echomail Conference: FIDONET_CARES

The Great Midwest Floods of 1993 have caused untold damage and
heartache to many of the members of our Fidonet family in
Regions 11 and 14. This conference is used to elicit
information about the needs of Fidonet members and their
families that have suffered as a result of this disaster, and to
help meet whatever emergency needs they may have by tapping the
resources of other Fidonet members outside of the disaster area.

FidoNews 10-32 Page: 13 09 Aug 1993

At this time, this echomail conference is being privately
distributed, however it is being carried on all the Zone 1
Echomail ZoneHubs, so any Fidonet node should be able to receive
this conference from their regular echomail resource. Feeds are
available at 2613/333, 260/1, 170/400, 13/13, 396/1, and
209/209. We hope to meet the requirements for listing in
FIDONET.NA in the near future.

JERRY SEWARD | FidoNet 1:2613/333.0
In*Touch Consulting Services | InterNet [email protected]
5 Spicewood Lane | UUCP rutgers!ur-valhalla!rochgte!jerry
Rochester, New York 14624-3717 | FAX: +1-716-461-3169
USA | Voicemail: +1-716-234-9069

----------------------------------------------------------------------

AND ON A SLIGHTLY MYSTICAL NOTE...

There's information available for people with an active interest
in old Celtic(Irish) and shamanic religious and spiritual traditions.
Write to: Circle, Box 219, Mt. Horeb, WI 53572. (Postcards are OK.)
Ask for their info packet, and mention you heard it on FidoNet.

Reviews of esoteric neo-p newsletters, publications and meeting
announcements are being accepted for inclusion in the Herne bulletin.
Send zines or reviews to: NHSK, POB 178, Stratham, NH 03885-0178.
For a copy of Herne, send a business-size SASE.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

========================================================================
Fidonews Information
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------- FIDONEWS MASTHEAD AND CONTACT INFORMATION ----------------

Editors: Sylvia Maxwell, Donald Tees, Tim Pozar
Editors Emeritii: Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell, Vince Perriello,
Tom Jennings

IMPORTANT NOTE: The FidoNet address of the FidoNews BBS has been
changed!!! Please make a note of this.

"FidoNews" BBS
FidoNet 1:1/23
BBS +1-519-570-4176, 300/1200/2400/14400/V.32bis/HST(DS)
Internet addresses:
Don & Sylvia (submission address)
[email protected]

Sylvia -- [email protected]
Donald -- [email protected]
Tim -- [email protected]

FidoNews 10-32 Page: 14 09 Aug 1993

(Postal Service mailing address) (have extreme patience)
FidoNews
172 Duke St. E.
Kitchener, Ontario
Canada
N2H 1A7

Published weekly by and for the members of the FidoNet international
amateur electronic mail system. It is a compilation of individual
articles contributed by their authors or their authorized agents. The
contribution of articles to this compilation does not diminish the
rights of the authors. Opinions expressed in these articles are those
of the authors and not necessarily those of FidoNews.

Authors retain copyright on individual works; otherwise FidoNews is
copyright 1993 Sylvia Maxwell. All rights reserved. Duplication and/or
distribution permitted for noncommercial purposes only. For use in
other circumstances, please contact the original authors, or FidoNews
(we're easy).

OBTAINING COPIES: The-most-recent-issue-ONLY of FidoNews in electronic
form may be obtained from the FidoNews BBS via manual download or
Wazoo FileRequest, or from various sites in the FidoNet and Internet.
PRINTED COPIES may be obtained from Fido Software for $10.00US each
PostPaid First Class within North America, or $13.00US elsewhere,
mailed Air Mail. (US funds drawn upon a US bank only.)

INTERNET USERS: FidoNews is available via FTP from ftp.ieee.org, in
directory ~ftp/pub/fidonet/fidonews. If you have questions regarding
FidoNet, please direct them to [email protected], not the
FidoNews BBS. (Be kind and patient; David Deitch is generously
volunteering to handle FidoNet/Internet questions.)

SUBMISSIONS: You are encouraged to submit articles for publication in
FidoNews. Article submission requirements are contained in the file
ARTSPEC.DOC, available from the FidoNews BBS, or Wazoo filerequestable
from 1:1/23 as file "ARTSPEC.DOC". Please read it.

"Fido", "FidoNet" and the dog-with-diskette are U.S. registered
trademarks of Tom Jennings, and are used with permission.

Asked what he thought of Western civilization,
M.K. Gandhi said, "I think it would be an excellent idea".
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