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APPLE II DEVELOPMENT FORUM CONFERENCE LOG
Tuesday, November 6, 1990  10:00 p.m. Eastern Time
Topic:  Apple IIGS System Software 5.0.3
Forum Leader:  Dave Sugar (AFL Dyfet)

AFL Dyfet  Good evening and welcome to the Apple II Development Forum.  We
          will be
AFL Dyfet  discussing and trying to answer questions in regards to System
          5.0.3 tonight,
AFL Dyfet  and we will be using PROTOCOL starting now.  This means if you
          have a question,
AFL Dyfet  enter a '?' on a line by itself, and if you have a comment on a
          question, enter
AFL Dyfet  a '!' on a line by itself.  You will each be called in turn.
          There are no
AFL Dyfet  doubt a number of questions in regards to changes in 5.0.3, and if
          we can give
AFL Dyfet  Matt a minute to summerize the important points, I think we will
          be able to
AFL Dyfet  move more smoothly from there....
ShanoJ     So, what's new and cool in the 5.0.3 toolbox?!
Matt DTS   Would you care to be more specific, Jonah?  There are about 18
          pages of release notes.
DaniF      What is so specal that no one can bleave?!?
ShanoJ     Well, for 5.0 you could say "there's a new toolset called TextEdit
          that allows
ShanoJ     you to do word processors really easily, and there's a new
          Resource Manager."
ShanoJ     Guess I was looking for a 'major points' summary like that,
          Matt....
DaniF      where is the release notes? Can they be found here?
Matt DTS   The release notes were not sent electronically to licensees, so
          they're not going to be available
Matt DTS   online at first.
Matt DTS   Let me page through my set of 5.0.3 documents and come up with
          some changes:
Matt DTS   Many things have been moved from one disk to another to accomodate
          changed sizes in things like
Matt DTS   the SCSI Manager (which supports DMA SCSI; 5.0.2's did not) and
          ACE (which has been rewritten).
Matt DTS   Bugs outlined in Tech Notes as "a bug in 5.0.2" are mostly fixed,
          and many of the TNs have already
Matt DTS   been corrected.  GS/OS TN #1 shows which files on the disk have
          changed, with two corrections:
Matt DTS   1)  The LaserWriter driver did change for 5.0.3; the TN says it
          did not, and
Matt DTS   2) The TN indicates there is an HP DeskJet Plus driver on the
          disk; there is not.
Matt DTS   The Window Manager has a new TaskMaster bit to let you feed it an
          event record instead of it always
Matt DTS   calling GetNextEvent - kind of an application version of
          TaskMasterDA.
Matt DTS   Standard File is very much changed.  It is much more bug-free
          (almost totally), and has a new
Matt DTS   interface component.  The "disk" button is replaced by "Volumes",
          which puts a list of online volumes
Matt DTS   in the file list area.  The <tab> key still goes to the next
          volume.
Matt DTS   ACE has been rewritten to improve performance - it's now two to
          three times faster.
Matt DTS   The Resource Manager has a few nasty bugs fixed, as does TextEdit
          - both are much more solid now.
Matt DTS   You can now tell QuickDraw not to use FastFont at QDStartUp
          time.
Matt DTS   The ImageWriter and ImageWriter LQ drivers are totally new, from
          scratch.
Matt DTS   The IW driver is about two to three times faster, uses better
          dialog boxes and has better color.
Matt DTS   The new LQ driver is a NATIVE LQ driver, using all 27 pins, and
          the same good interface and colors of
Matt DTS   the new IW driver.  The port drivers were changed to go up to
          19,200 baud to help the LQ driver (a
Matt DTS   full page of LQ data is a lot of stuff to be sending out the
          serial port!)
Matt DTS   >64K unclaimed interrupts is not a fatal error - it gives a dialog
          that says "see your dealer".
Matt DTS   Unloading segments by address now works again.
Matt DTS   The UniDisk driver now correctly detects disk-switched condition
          after returning from P8.
Matt DTS   A new parameter was added to "Flush" to allow you to only flush
          data blocks and not system blocks.
AFL Marty  Yo Jonah!
Matt DTS   A new call was added to the Miscellaneous Tools, "ConvSeconds" to
          convert various date formats back
Matt DTS   and forth.
Matt DTS   There are lots more bug fixes, etc., but them's the highlights.
          (No, I will NOT repeat them.)
Matt DTS   :)  GA
AFL Dyfet  GA DaniF...
DaniF      Is the over all speed with a HD and the plain SCSI card be
          increased?
Matt DTS   Not significantly, but a little bit I think.  This is not a major
          release, otherwise it would be
Matt DTS   numbered 6.0.  It probably could qualify as 5.1, but that would
          require reprinting a whole lot of
Matt DTS   manuals and passing the cost along, and we chose not to do that.
          :)  <GA>
AFA Gary J :)
AFL Dyfet  Okay, the floor is now open for questions...
AFL Dyfet  Go ahead Coach...
Coach101   Were there any changes in the AppleTalk boot over network process?
          (particularly speed)
Coach101   ga
Matt DTS   No, not in speed.  A few bugs were fixed, though.  <GA>
Coach101   Thanks.... ga
ShanoJ     Matt'll probably tell me to read one of the tech notes, but you
          mentioned a
ShanoJ     problem with unloading a segment by address. What exactly was
          wrong here? I
ShanoJ     used it in Twilight.... :(
AFA Gary J :)
AFL Marty  Read a technote Jonah.
Matt DTS   It didn't work with ExpressLoad.  See IIgs TN #22 (Ha!  You were
          right!) for more details.
Matt DTS   (Jonah, it just gets to me because we spend a lot of time creating
          a lot of documentation that you
Matt DTS   don't seem to spend a lot of time reading.  I'd rather do new
          stuff than repeat the stuff I've already
Matt DTS   done, and I'm sure you would too.)  <GA>
ShanoJ     Okay, thanks! (okay, everone tell me to read the technotes. Get it
          out of your
ShanoJ     system... Good boy, Marty.... :)
ShanoJ     I know you do, Matt. I hope I'm not ACTUALLY as bad about reading
          stuff as I
ShanoJ     appear... I _DO_ read most of it, even though it probably doen't
          look that way.
AFL Marty  (read -all- of it :)
ShanoJ     Oh, wait I've got another one---> ? :)
AFL Dyfet  GA, Jonah
ShanoJ     Okay, after I call UnloadSeg on a code segment, is it okay for me
          to call
ShanoJ     DisposeHandle on the memory it used to be in, or am I going to
          dispose part
ShanoJ     of the system instead of the code?
Matt DTS   Don't go disposing of that stuff.
Matt DTS   The Loader keeps the handle around and will try to reallocate it
          if necessary later.  The Loader makes
Matt DTS   it purge level three, so it will be disposed as soon as any memory
          request can't be immediately
Matt DTS   fulfilled.  Just Unload it and go about your business.  <GA>
ShanoJ     I was having a problem that after calling UnloadSeg, when I tried
          to go to P8
ShanoJ     I would get the $0201 error dialog. I checked with NiftyList, and
          the code was
ShanoJ     getting loaded into bank $01, leading me to believe that this was
          causing the
ShanoJ     problem...
Matt DTS   If you're trying to stick around during P8, that will cause the
          problem.  Just set the "no special
Matt DTS   memory" bit in your OMF and you won't get loaded in bank 1.
          <GA>
AFL Dyfet  For the late comers, we are discussing System 5.0.3 and changes to
          system
AFL Dyfet  tools.  System 5.0.3 will be available on Thur. for downloading
          :)....
AFA Gary J (12:00:01 A.M., to be exact :)
ShanoJ     Well, I wasn't trying to stick around. I was done with that code,
          so I tried
ShanoJ     to unload it, but it didn't seem to work (even though I wasn't
          getting an
ShanoJ     error on the UnloadSeg call....)
Matt DTS   Maybe it wasn't working properly!  That's fixed now.  <GA>
ShanoJ     Okay, thanks!
AFL Dyfet  Okay, Coach, GA...
Coach101   Though DisposeHandle would be a disaster, a PurgeHandle would be
          legal would it not?  ga
Matt DTS   This is true.  <GA>
ShanoJ     Okay, that's nice. Thanks!
Matt DTS   I will point out again, though, that you don't *need* to purge or
          dispose of anything.  The system
Matt DTS   will kick it out as soon as it needs to.  Really!
Matt DTS   <GA>
Coach101   Understood, but if one wanted to get an estimate of the amount of
          memory that might be available on
Coach101   a memory request, then a PurgeHandle would be needed so that the
          memory would be freed, right?
Matt DTS   Even then, Coach, nothing like MaxBlock or RealFreeMem will give
          you a reasonable estimate.
Matt DTS   The best thing to do is just try to allocate what you want and try
          something smaller if you don't get
Matt DTS   it.  Trying to pre-flight NewHandle calls will only cause your
          users grief in the end.
AFL Dyfet  Okay, do we have any other takers for questions about IIgs tools
          and/or 5.0.3?
AFL Dyfet  GA Scott...
AFL Scott  When drawing text in 640 mode, does one have to set up a special
          pen mask to draw text in color?....
AFL Scott  All I need is Red, green, and blue text. GA
AFL Dyfet  GA Dave
Matt DTS   (saved by the bang)
Dave Lyons The pen mask is always irrelevant for text--the
Dave Lyons foreground and background colors are relevant, as is the text mode
          (see SetForeColor, SetBackColor,
Dave Lyons SetTextMode, etc, all in QuickDraw).  There is a special bit in
          either
Dave Lyons Text Mode or Font Flags (I think it's Font Flags, still QD) that
          makes 4 bits of color
Dave Lyons significant in 640 mode instead of just 2.  ga
AFL Scott  I've tried SetFore and Back as well as the FontFlags bit 1... All
          I get is Sick green, pink, white and
AFL Scott  Black. :(
AFL Scott  It's a mess, I'll tell ya that much... It seems as thought the
          only colors one can get are just the'
AFL Scott  ones I've mentioned... On a white background.  Seems like the
          lower two bits of the color word are
AFL Scott  the only bits used and that FontFlags has no effect that I can
          see. :(
AFL Scott  I know it can be done, though... I just don't know how to do it.
          :(
Matt DTS   Hold on, I'll try calling him and see where he is...
Matt DTS   I can't find him.  We'd better move on.
AFL Dyfet  GA Mac...
Mac Hater  how much faster are the new ace tools?  In decompression only?
Matt DTS   Two to three times, and I believe it's both ways.  <GA>
AFA Gary J (Crud, I'll have to put a delay loop in my program now, so that
          the startup
AFA Gary J pic will display long enough :(
Mac Hater  make a bigger sound sample ;)
AFA Gary J :)
AFL Dyfet  Go ahead, David...
FeinDavid  Has there been any changes to the finder?  Like icons that are
          showing up on
FeinDavid  the desktop being automatically placed where they belong when you
          do a clean
FeinDavid  up?
Matt DTS   The Finder did not change from 5.0.2.
Matt DTS   <GA>
FeinDavid  Damn.
AFL Dyfet  As Matt said :)...
FeinDavid  Sorry, I missed that.
Coach101   What is David's problem, CleanUp works for me.
Mac Hater  it should begin to change dramatically, since Andy Nicholas now
          works on the
Mac Hater  Finder team!  ()()()()
AFA Gary J :)
AFL Dyfet  ShrinkIcons :)
FeinDavid  Is the system much faster?  I saw a beta that was faster than
FeinDavid  5.0.2.
Matt DTS   It's a little faster, but nothing to write home about.
FeinDavid  Load your IIgs in under 5 seconds to desktop off of a 3.5!
AFL Dyfet  I like the changes to standard file in 5.0.3...
AFL Dyfet  Go ahead Coach...
Coach101   Any changes in the dispatching/handling of SIGNALs in 5.0.3?
Matt DTS   No.  What did you want to change?
Coach101   If BusyFlag is set, then a SIGNAL is deferred...
Coach101   But, when the BusyFlag is reset, the SIGNAL queue is not checked
          to see if anything needs to be
Coach101   dispatched...   Not nice...   He who blocks, should queue when the
          unblock takes place...  ga
Matt DTS   This didn't change, Coach.  Sorry.
Coach101   Well, I could alwasy hope :)
Matt DTS   Any other takers?
Coach101   How about the Machine bit in a CDev?
Matt DTS   No changes to the Control Panel, ADU, etc.  An Installer bug was
          fixed, though.
AFA Gary J What is the version of P8 on 5.0.3?
Mac Hater  1.9
Matt DTS   Version 1.9.  You wanted it, you got it.  :)
AFA Gary J Actually, 1.8 was fine for me :)
EdM14      Anyone know anything about the new sound tools?
EdM14      Oops, I mean where they are or how can we get them?
ShanoJ     Which sound tools? The new MIDISynth ones?
EdM14      Yes!!!
ShanoJ     Nope, don't know anything about that.... :) (check APDA,
          though...)
Matt DTS   MIDI Synth should be at APDA very soon now, I hear.
AFA Gary J That's good news.
EdM14      I'll believe it when I see it.........
ShanoJ     Okay, I've got to ask this before everyone leaves....
ShanoJ     Okay, when Twilight goes to blank the screen, it's possible that
          it can't get
ShanoJ     some memory it needs, and if so, it won't be able to blank the
          screen. What
ShanoJ     then?! I guess my question is, what would be the best thing to do
          here? I was
ShanoJ     thinking of flasking the menu bar if the desk manager was started,
          and the
ShanoJ     border if it wasn't.... Thoughts, ideas, comments, socks to tape
          in mouth so
ShanoJ     I'll shut up? :)
Matt DTS   The best thing to do is not to blank the screen.  Doing something
          else weird won't help.
AFL Dyfet  Why not pre-allocate the memory you need at startup/initial
          running?
ShanoJ     Well, I'm not going to blank the screen. I thought it might be
          nice to have
ShanoJ     some way of telling the user that, though....
Matt DTS   You should display a message in the CDev that says you can't get
          the memory.  If the screen doesn't
Matt DTS   blank they're most likely to go check the CDev to see if
          something's wrong.
ShanoJ     Hmm... Might try getting it at startup, but I'm not sure if people
          would like
ShanoJ     a 32k chunk permanently allocatd... :(
AFL Dyfet  They're gonna lose it everytime you blank anyway...
ShanoJ     Ah! Now THERE'S a good idea! Thanks, Matt!
AFL Dyfet  GA Scott...
AFL Scott  Why not make your blankers use a different palette than the
          screen... then add what ever is on the
AFL Scott  screen to so the Refresh desktop call can fix it up when the mouse
          is moved?
ShanoJ     Ya, but they might not like it PERMANENTLY gone.... Dunno....
A2GS       Why not require a TWILIGHT user to have a minimum of 5 megs?
Mac Hater  lol
ShanoJ     I thought about that, Albert, but Jim and Scott didn't like it
          very much... :)
A2GS       Picky, aren't they?   ;)
ShanoJ     Well, I actually don't call RefreshDesktop. I just save the screen
          and then
ShanoJ     restore it myself. I found RefreshDesktop was messing a LOT of
          things up... :(
AFL Dyfet  If they dont wan't it gone, they could always shut down the
          blanker, right?
AFL Scott  Hey, this might just be the reason why Twilight causes problem on
          some systems and not on others.
ShanoJ     What's that, Scott?
ShanoJ     Well, they'd have to disable Twilight and then reboot, as far as I
          can tell...
AFL Scott  Jonah, cant you add what is on the desktop to some region so the
          RefreshDesktop call will redraw the
AFL Scott  whole thing?  I mean sorta like before HideMenu was
AFL Scott  available?
ShanoJ     Or I could add a shutdown button to the CDev that would make
          Twilight release
ShanoJ     all of it's memory, but then it would have to be gone for the rest
          of the time
ShanoJ     the system is active....
AFL Dyfet  No, just a shutdown button that deactivated it until it is
          restarted (with a
AFL Dyfet  restart button) and release the 32K in the interum...
AFL Dyfet  And grab a new 32K area when the user restarts...
AFL Scott  I mean it's six or one half dozen or the other at this stage,
          Jonah... sooner or later you're going
AFL Scott  to have to trap an error in low memory situations.
ShanoJ     My first version of Twilight DID call RefreshDesktop, with a
          parameter of 0
ShanoJ     to refresh the whole thing, but I was getting WEIRD problems,
          because the
ShanoJ     application wasn't expecting to have it's desktiop refreshed right
          then....
ShanoJ     Maybe with the modifications I've made I'll be able to use it now,
          but I'd
ShanoJ     still have to do something else when the DeskManager isn't
          started....
AFL Scott  Jonah, the point that I'm trying to make is that sooner or later
          you're going to lose that memory.
A2GS       I don't see what the big deal is...if the user doesn't have the
          memory then
A2GS       don't blank the screen...period.
AFL Scott  So, you're gonna have to either kill the blanker, or "what A2GS
          said"... :)
ShanoJ     Ya, but my original problem was that if I don't have some nice way
          to tell the
ShanoJ     user that I can't blank the screen. Otherwise I'm going against
          the HIG, and
ShanoJ     Matt'll drop a Mac II on me :(
A2GS       Ok. then cycle the border colors if the user doesn't have enough
          memory, that
A2GS       should get the users attention.   :)
ShanoJ     (so would the Mac II... :)
A2GS       Matt....our Matt???  He wouldn't do that...nothing less then a Mac
          Luggable  :)

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