AppleLink
APPLE II DEVELOPMENT FORUM CONFERENCE LOG
May 23, 1989 10:00 p.m. Eastern time
Topic: "Getting Started"
Forum Leader: Dave Sugar (AFL Dyfet)
CHRISZX ANYONE- I'm looking for arcade routines in assembly for the IIgs,
does anyone
MDW Flyer Hello Folks. Is 'C' for a novice?
A GibberFC My wife wishes that I never got into this development thingie
CHRISZX know where I could find some coding?
HyperRam Whats the faster way to learn Pascal besides college?
HyperRam fastest I mean.
AFL Dyfet Good evening, and welcome to the tuesday night Apple
AFL Dyfet Development forum chat. Tonight's topic is 'getting started'.
AFL Dyfet We will be using PROTOCOL starting NOW. This means
MDW Flyer Getting started with 'C'. Anyone?
AFL Dyfet that if you wish to ask a question, you must enter a '?' on
AFL Dyfet a line by itself, and if you wish to comment on the question
AFL Dyfet being asked, you must enter a '!' on a line by itself. I will
AFL Dyfet call each of you in turn to speak. I believe Chris had the
AFL Dyfet first question. GA Chris.
CHRISZX I'm looking for arcade style assembly coding for the IIgs, help!
AFL Dyfet I take it you are looking for examples?
CHRISZX So far, nothing but dead ends...
CHRISZX Yes, Dyfet.
AFL Dyfet Where have you tried?
CHRISZX On Alink and writing to software companies
CHRISZX that end up telling me about copyright laws.....
AFL Dyfet Most companies would probably consider those 'trade secrets', as
their
AFL Dyfet methods may give them an edge on other companies. I know a few
companies
AFL Dyfet like Penguin used to sell animation construction tools and
routines, but
AFL Dyfet I know of no one selling this kind of a package for the GS so far.
Does
AFL Dyfet anyone else have any comments or suggestions?
AFA Gary J !
AFL Dyfet GA Gary.
JeffDavies !
AFA Gary J I know this isn't EXACTLY what you're looking for, but one of the
Apple source
AFA Gary J code samples does interrupt animation (by Jim Mensch). It is in
our library.
AFA Gary J Also, a LOT can be learned by disassembling other people's code.
It takes a
CHRISZX I have it Gary, but, you know..........
AFA Gary J lot of work, but you learn a lot in the process.
AFA Gary J GA
JeffDavies The Book Apple graphics and arcade game design, by 'The Book
Company' but..
AFL Dyfet Okay. GA Jeff.
JeffDavies wow how was that for timing. what is ':)'
CHRISZX Thanks for your help guys
CHRISZX Chirs?
AFL Dyfet :) is just a smiley face :). I see the next question is from MDW
flyer.
AFL Dyfet GA flyer.
MDW Flyer I've gotten APW C. Reading H. Schildts' Book. And d/l'd various
comments ALPE
MDW Flyer Chris you might look at AnimDemo in the library
MDW Flyer I was wondering if you have any suggestions about getting
started?
CHRISZX Thanks MDW, I'll do that...
AFL Dyfet In terms of books or programs, MDW?
MDW Flyer Well, both. I've used assembler, but like the structured approach
of 'C' or
AFA Parik :)
MDW Flyer TML's Basic. Even if the latter is buggy under GSOS
AFL Dyfet Does anyone here wish to recommend a book or program they have
found to be
AFL Dyfet useful?
A GibberFC !
AFL Dyfet GA Gibber.
MDW Flyer Has ALPE University looked into 'C' as a topic/course?
A GibberFC anything with Lichty's name on it... for the //gs
MDW Flyer Thanks Gibber!
A GibberFC His latest Lichty and Eyes "programming the Apple //gs in Assembly
language"
A GibberFC is Excelent
A GibberFC ga
AFL Dyfet Anyone else?
AFA Parik !
AFL Dyfet GA Parik.
AFA Parik Exploring the Apple IIgs by Gary Little is a great book too.
Morgan Davis and
AFA Parik Dan Gookins ToolBox Programming is a good replacement to Apple's
books, althoug
AFA Parik its not as up-to-date as the updates :) Lichty & Eyes books are
AWESOME ga
AFL Dyfet Okay, any more comments?
AFL Dyfet Okay, the next question is from Windrider. GA.
Windrider5 Since Dave Lyons has joined DTS I've notice a little less help in
Let's Discuss
Windrider5 I am not sure what his offical role at APLE was but I sure hope
someone
Windrider5 replaces him
AFL Dyfet Dave Lyons was a forum 'consultant'. This means he's here to help
answer
AFL Dyfet questions. I'm sure once he gets settled in he will be on-line
more often.
AFA Parik "was"?
AFL Dyfet No was :). Sorry about that.
AFL Dyfet (make that is of course :).
AFL Dyfet I believe our next question is from Jeff. GA Jeff.
JeffDavies HyperRam GA I watchin Miss Universe
HyperRam Me?
AFL Dyfet Okay. GA HyperRam.
HyperRam Ok,
HyperRam whats the best place to learn pascal besides colleges?
HyperRam [tml pascal too]
AFA Parik LOL
HyperRam Is there going to be APLE courses sooon?
AFL Marty (Nothing does, Gibber :)
AFL Dyfet Too many flashes :). Um, as to learning Pascal, you might try
inquiring into
AFL Dyfet the ALPE class program if they are teaching it. Anyone else have
a suggestion?
HyperRam , I sent,
A GibberFC !
HyperRam a letter to a user group and never got a reply. :) (hint)
AFL Dyfet GA Gibber.
A GibberFC Well... I had to use a lot of books to teach myself languages...
In college
AFL Marty !
A GibberFC I majored in Television Broadcast.... But the Book "OH Pascal" is
a good one
AFL Dyfet GA Marty.
CHRISZX !
A GibberFC to learn that language
HyperRam !
A GibberFC ga
AFL Marty I think HyperRam may be looking for an alternative to reading
books...
A GibberFC !
AFL Marty some folks (myself included) find it difficult to learn by reading
only...
JeffDavies I always keep going back to Programming with pascal, by Mc Graw
Hill.
AFL Marty (are we in protocol?)
AFA Parik ?
AFL Marty I find it much easier to learn when I have more direct contact
with the
AFA Gary J <yes>
AFL Marty instructor. I'd like to see a University course for subjects
like
AFL Marty Beginning Pascal, Assembler, C, etc.
AFL Marty done
HyperRam !
AFL Dyfet Okay, GA Chris.
CHRISZX Each book teaches something different so.......
Gferg I am intersted in starting programing on the GS...What language to
you recomnd
JeffDavies !
A GibberFC (my turn yet :)
AFL Dyfet Okay, I think Chris was done ??. GA Gibber.
A GibberFC If Applelink PE were to have online class that would be a good
thing.. the
A GibberFC only other alternative (instead of books) would be classes at a
university or
A GibberFC a community college... both of which can cost some bucks but are
well worth it.
A GibberFC ga
AFL Dyfet Okay. GA Jeff.
JeffDavies A good structured language like 'C' or Pascal or even A structured
BASIC is goo
JeffDavies good to start with then start branching out when you find yourself
limited
JeffDavies done
AFL Dyfet Okay. I believe our next question is from Chaos. GA Chaos.
Chaos 89 Any news on an Assembly lang. course possibly being offered online
here?
Chaos 89 There was talk of one a while back.
AFL Dyfet Anyone here know about this?
AFL Marty !
AFL Dyfet GA Marty.
AFL Marty The subject seems to have been dropped....
AFL Marty I don't think the folder is even in ATB anymore.
AFL Marty What a shame
AFL Marty done
AFL Dyfet Okay. I believe our next question is from Gferg. GA Gferg.
Gferg I am interested in programing the GS ... what languages do you
recomen ?*)
A GibberFC !
AFL Dyfet GA Gibber.
A GibberFC For the 2.8 machine..... a good assembler. however Orca Pascal
and C are
Gferg I currently program on Big blue in structured cobol, basic and
fortran
A GibberFC great
JeffDavies /
Gferg ga
AFL Dyfet / ???
A GibberFC with a transwarp.... anything.... Applesoft ;)
JeffDavies ? my shift doesn't work
A GibberFC ga
AFL Dyfet Okay. Anyone else have a recommendation?
SteveSand !
AFL Dyfet GA Steve.
AFL Marty !
SteveSand I just started & like TML Pascal -- few bugs and relatively
easy.
AFL Dyfet Okay, GA Marty.
Gferg what makes one language better than another on this machine??
SteveSand ?
AFL Marty If anyone here is not yet going to college and will likely take
AFL Marty the AP exam in computer science, Pascal is probably the one
language
AFL Marty to learn. Last time I checked, knowledge of Pascal was assumed
AFL Marty on that exam.
AFL Marty done
AFL Dyfet Interesting note. Okay, I believe the next question is from
Parik. GA Parik.
AFA Parik TOTALLY irrelevant, but i've been stuck for the past 1/2 hour...
!#$*#$!(^@&$%
AFA Parik Does _UNPACKBYTES work across bank boundries? yes/no/go away will
suffice ga
AFL Dyfet I believe this came up once before somewhere, and I believe the
answer was
AFL Dyfet that it does not. Anyone else have a comment?
AFA Gary J Yes, it was in the Let's Discuss area.
AFA Parik !@(!#*$%* ok, thanks :) done
A GibberFC lol
AFL Marty You misspelled that Parik.
AFL Dyfet Must have been frustrating....Um, the next question is from Jeff.
GA Jeff.
AFL Marty There are two #'s in that word. :)
JeffDavies Does anyone know why when I change the border color from assembly
the control
AFA Parik :P
JeffDavies panel resets to the defult even with the _WriteBParam or with
changing the
AFA Parik !
JeffDavies location directly/
AFL Dyfet GA Parik.
JeffDavies done
AFA Parik The control panel resets all firmware softswitches which are
stored in battery
AFA Parik ram. _WRITEBParam won't take effect till reboot I'm pretty sure.
The easiest
AFA Parik thing to do is disable control panel entry (lda #$00 / sta $E01D67
in SHORT M
AFA Parik mode) or just have a routine that intercepts the control panel
(vector is in
AFA Parik the firmware book) ga
AFL Dyfet Any other comments?
AFL Dyfet Okay, the next question is from Steve. GA Steve.
SteveSand I'm not so concerned with the language -many will do- but would
like to see
JeffDavies thanks Parik
SteveSand a class on the GS tools. I am confused about the taskmaster - veen
though I us
SteveSand even though I use it. Is anyone else interested? If so.. I will
start a
SteveSand fplder somewhere and we can put together a list of names.
SteveSand done
AFL Dyfet I think we're losing people to that event :). If you would like
to start some
AFL Dyfet sort of class here, perhaps we can setup a time in the conference
room and a
AFL Dyfet folder for it.
AFL Dyfet Is this what you had in mind, Steve?
SteveSand Yes.. I guess I have been asking for this for a while & if there
were
SteveSand more of us it might happen. What event?
AFL Dyfet I'm not sure, Steve. I only caught a glimps of the tail end of
the worm. In
AFL Dyfet any case, if there's enough interest, I would be more than happy
to help you
AFL Dyfet setup a conf. time in here to do this. We would have to work out
a time that
AFL Dyfet does not conflict with other forums, though.
A GibberFC (got thrown off again :( )
SteveSand There was enough interest tonite. Maybe it will fly.
AFL Dyfet I think a good start would be to put up a folder and see what
others think.
A GibberFC Yeah... that is a good idea.... I love the //gs university idea...
I would love
SteveSand I'll do that.
A GibberFC to attend
A GibberFC that one
SteveSand me too!!!!!
AFL Dyfet :)
A GibberFC I can't wait to get my hands on a real copy of 5.0 with docs and
something
A GibberFC to tell me how to use Expressload...... I want it to be finished
now......
AFL Dyfet Again, we would need to find a timeslot. Anyone have an Alink
Update handy?
A GibberFC ever since seeing it work at
SteveSand Yes
AFL Dyfet Gibber: You can, in theory, expressload any application, as long
as it doesn't
A GibberFC Afest with a Transwarp.... geez...4.0 and a transwarp isn't where
I want to be
AFL Dyfet use some of the fancy loader calls.
AFA Gary J ..I've got one handy.
A GibberFC got one what.....A transwarp or system 5.0 hehe
AFA Gary J (AppleLink Update)
AFL Dyfet Okay, I can't find mine. Either you or Steve see a handy
timeslot?
AFA Gary J Hmmm...
A GibberFC ever since I moved I haven't gotten my alink update
A GibberFC whoops.. gots to go... I will see you all later... :)
AFA Gary J Don't say that, Gibber. I'm probably going to be moving in a
couple of weeks
AFA Gary J :)
AFA Gary J (I still want to get mine.. :)
AFA Parik :-) doomed Gary, doomed to not recieving those little pamphlets
AFA Parik (whats on wed @ 10?)
AFA Parik ack, bye
AFL Dyfet Doesn't ACM have something then?
SteveSand Mine only goes to the end of May -- 11 on Wed May 31? There is a
Mac Dev Conf
AFL Dyfet We can double time with a Mac conf. We already do now, Mac
education normally'
AFA Gary J Wed at 10:00 ... yep.. ACM
AFL Dyfet has a tuesday at 10p conf.
SteveSand The only other thing at 11:00 on May 31 is a Science Class.
AFL Dyfet Hmm...who normally has thur. at 10:00?
AFA Gary J Hmmm.... My Update shows ACM on both Wed and Thur at 10:00 pm!
AFL Dyfet Well, we can settle on an exact day and time after the initial
message. It
AFL Dyfet should be sometime about 2 weeks for today for the first one so
that there is
AFA Gary J It must have been a fluke on the one week I was looking
for...Wednesday at
AFA Gary J 10:00 on the next week only shows a Mac communications forum.
AFL Dyfet enough lead time for worms. I suggest a good start is simply to
open a folder,
AFL Dyfet mention the idea, and see both who is interested and what they
would expect
AFL Dyfet out of such a class.
AFL Dyfet We can finalize the details within the next few days from there.
SteveSand Event Driven Proramming...Taskmaster...handles.... Quickdraw II
and general
SteveSand overview of a GS program is what I would like ---- my 2 cents.
AFL Dyfet Don't tell me, tell them :).
AFA Gary J Steve, the "Apple IIGS Toolbox" topic area has folders on all of
those topics.
AFA Gary J Have you looked in there?
SteveSand I know; but it is all so specific as not to give an overview.
AFA Gary J Steve, have you seen the book by Eyes and Lichty?
AFA Gary J "Programming the Apple IIGS in Assembly Language"?
AFA Gary J It provides an excellent overview... a sample program step by
step with
AFA Gary J explanations as to what's going on.
SteveSand No, but I will get it -- Does APDA have it?
AFA Gary J ..uh I think so... I got mine at B.Daltons.
AFA Gary J Yes, APDA has it.
SteveSand I appreciate the tip -- I'm doing ok; but, feel a little shakey
with this
SteveSand event driven programming.
AFA Gary J (Page C-17 of current catalog)
SteveSand Thanks!!!
AFA Gary J It's an excellent book for that sort of thing.
AFA Gary J (It deals with the TaskMaster too)
SteveSand I also appreciate all the specific help I'm getting in the Let's
Discus Sect.
AFA Gary J I think it would be a good textbook for the sort of class you are
talking about
AFA Gary J , and would provide a good topic for discussion.
SteveSand Things are going much faster since I went online. One last
question......
AFA Gary J (assuming the language you'd want to learn is assembly...)
