AppleLink
APPLE II DEVELOPMENT FORUM CONFERNCE LOG
April 25, 1989 10:00 p.m. eastern time
Topic: Apple II Programming Environments
Special Guest: Tim Swihart
Forum Leader: Dave Sugar (AFL Dyfet)
AFL Dyfet Good evening and welcome to the Tuesday night Apple
AFL Dyfet Development Forum Chat. Tonight's topic is Apple II Development
Environments,
AFL Dyfet and Tim Swihart is hear as our informal guest on this topic. Tim
is
Dave Lyons (I think Matt's asleep...not sure.)
DaviesDoug (WAKE UP MATT!!!!)
AFL Dyfet the Product Manager for APW over at Apple. We will be using
PROTOCOL
AFL Dyfet *WHIP* here tonight, starting now. This means that if you wish to
ask
AFL Dyfet a question, you must enter a '?' on a line by itself. If you wish
to make
AFL Dyfet a comment, you must enter a '!' on a line by itself. I will call
you each
AFL Dyfet in turn to speak. First, as some of you know, we will be giving
away some
AFL Dyfet connect time at the end of this chat (or around 10:00pm, whichever
comes
ShrinkIt ?
GMorrison ?
AFL Dyfet first) to some lucky participant out there chosen at random.
Before we
AFA Parik (Hi Willie)
AFA Gary J Q = Andy, Gary M
AFL Dyfet start with questions, I will give the floor over to Tim in case he
wishes to
AFL Dyfet make some introductory statement. GA Tim :)
A2Pro Tim gee, my very own floor... :-)
A2Pro Tim I'm Tim Swihart, and as Dave already pointed out, I work for Apple
as the
A2Pro Tim Product Manager for APW and MPW IIGS (our cross-developement
suite).
A2Pro Tim I've had this job for just over six months and it's been a VERY
fast six months
A2Pro Tim (to say the least).
A2Pro Tim But enough about me, let's get to the REAL reason you're all
here....
A2Pro Tim Dev tools for the Apple II.
A2Pro Tim Take it away, Dave.
AFL Dyfet (not free connect time :)
AFA Gary J :)
A2Pro Tim :-)
AFL Dyfet Well, our first question is from ShrinkIt. GA Andy.
ShrinkIt Tim, Can you give us an description on what's being done to the
current APW to
AFA Gary J Q = ShrinkIt, GMorrison
ShrinkIt enhance it's performance?
ShrinkIt GA
A2Pro Tim Not yet....
AFA Parik ?
ShrinkIt Ok, next...
A2Pro Tim We're not quite ready to start telling the public what exactly
we're putting
A2Pro Tim into the new version.
ShrinkIt Then, there *IS* a new version?
A2Pro Tim Readers of my APDAlog article in the Spring (or was it Winter?)
already
A2Pro Tim know that we're revising that product.... GA
ShrinkIt :) GA
ShrinkIt (Winter..)
AFL Dyfet I believe our next question is from GMorisson. GA GM.
AFA Gary J Q = GMorrison, Parik
GMorrison Ok...
GMorrison I've seen a lot lately on the Mac moving to OOOps and today I saw
an
GMorrison announcemtn that the New Turbo Pascal (whatever) will have
ooops...
GMorrison Is there any chance it will "invade the GS environment? ga
AFL Dyfet Anyone have comments on this?
A2Pro Tim Hmmm, that's partially up to us and partially up to folks like
Mike W. and TML
A2Pro Tim Mike and Tom both sell lots of Pascal (the primary OOPS platform
seems to be
GMorrison Is there a "push" from Apple?
A2Pro Tim Pascal these days)
AFA Parik (ooops? sounds like a mistake... "I program in OOPS! I mean
OOPS! What I..")
A2Pro Tim Apple has a very strong backing for OOPS - I'm not sure how that
applies to
GMorrison object oriented programming I think
A2Pro Tim the GS "today".
A2Pro Tim (yes, OOPS = Object Oriented Programming)
GMorrison Ok, thanks. Ga
AFL Dyfet I know Oops tools are pushed in Macintosh Development :)...perhaps
this will
A2Pro Tim Our recently released MPW IIGS Pascal compiler is a port of the
MPW Pascal...
AFA Gary J Q = GMorrison, Parik
AFL Dyfet change in the future of GS development as well. I believe our
next question
A2Pro Tim We currently don't support OOPS in the MPW IIGS version, but it is
in the MPW
A2Pro Tim once.
AFL Dyfet is from Parik. GA Parik.
A2Pro Tim (finished)
AFA Parik Do you have any comments on any upcoming products at AppleFest,
such as any
A2Pro Tim er, "once = one"
AFA Parik new interface files to possibly a new system disk? ;) ga
A2Pro Tim ok, everybody sing in harmony....
AFA Parik shucks
AFL Marty ?
A2Pro Tim :-)
AFA Parik (was hoping you're drunk :)
A2Pro Tim Never drink and type...
A2Pro Tim you might short out a keyboard.
AFL Dyfet I guess that would be a good post-applefest question :). I
believe we now
AFL Marty (use a straw :)
AFA Gary J Q = Marty
Dan Burton ?
AFL Dyfet have a question from Marty. GA Marty.
AFL Marty Can you shed any light on the nature of the bug(s) in...
AFA Gary J Q = Marty, Dan
AFL Marty the SCSI driver which Glen Bredon recently wrote a patch for?
AFL Marty GA
AFA Parik ?
A2Pro Tim I've downloaded Glen's patch, but haven't had time to talk with
the s/w gang
A2Pro Tim about it. We've tried to get Glen to report it (and send us what
it takes to
A2Pro Tim duplicate it), but haven't had much luck yet. This one won't be
easy....
A2Pro Tim GA
AFL Dyfet Perhaps our DTS people might wish to comment on this...I haven't
been able
AFL Marty (Done)
AFL Dyfet to get much out of Glenn about it either :).
Chaos 89 ?
AFA Gary J Q = Dan, Parik, Chaos
KEVIN95 ?
AFL Dyfet Okay...our next question is from Dan. GA Dan.
Dan Burton The assembler hangs on me occationaly. To prevent this I changed
it so that it
Dan Burton reloads the assembler every time. Is this being fixed? ...
AFA Gary J Q = Dan, Parik, Chaos, Kevin
Dan Burton also it seems that the linker causes programs that are run
A2Pro Tim My assembler is restartable. Have you reported this as a bug?
Dan Burton after a link to crash. Any info?
A2Pro Tim Also, have you double-checked that nothing else is walking all
over your
A2Pro Tim memory?
AE PhilM !
A2Pro Tim GA Phil...
Dan Burton All I'm doing is assembleing several segments in a row.
AFL Dyfet GA Phil
A2Pro Tim (he wrote part of the product....) :-)
AE PhilM The Linker and Assembler and Editor all are restartable and have
checksum rou
AE PhilM tines to prevent indicate if memory stomped on them
AFA Gary J Q = Dan (AE PhilM), Parik, Chaos, Kevin
AE PhilM Doesn't sound like memory problem to me.
Dan Burton I have 4 meg in my machine and no DAs are running just strait
assembles
A2Pro Tim How much RAM do you have (total) & how many desk accessories?
A2Pro Tim (never mind...) :-)
AFL Dyfet I've not had any similar problems myself. Don;t know what to
suggest...
DaviesDoug !
AFA Parik !
AFL Dyfet GA Davies...
AE PhilM Dan - are you using APW or Orca? Which version?
DaviesDoug I've had ORCA/APW crash quite often as dan has
AFA Gary J Q = Dan (Doug, Parik), Parik, Chaos, Kevin
DaviesDoug we use orca phil
AE PhilM The latest version of Orca has some problems--Contact Mike at
BW.
Dan Burton I am assembleing a LARGE program and setting Assembler to not
restart fixes the
Dan Burton problem
DaviesDoug mike doesn't like us anymore
DaviesDoug here at wordperfect
AFL Dyfet :)
DaviesDoug never talks to us
AFA Gary J :X
AE PhilM I encounterd simular problems and got a working version from
them.
DaviesDoug phil, dan is my boss, he works here to
DaviesDoug yah but mikes your bud
DaviesDoug .done.
AFA Gary J Q = Dan (Parik), Parik, Chaos, Kevin
AE PhilM What can I say :) (done)
A2Pro Tim There is a v1.1b of the ORCA shell that fixes some hangs...
Dan Burton .done.
A2Pro Tim (done)
AFL Dyfet Okay, next comment is from Parik...
AFA Parik I've had the same problems, I asml a program, find bug, re-asml
only ONE part
AFA Parik of the program (uses NAMES=(____)) options and it crashes. Got
fix from Mike
Dan Burton !
AFA Parik and works well. Question: How does one debug a program using APW
Debugger
AFA Parik if it uses the text output, WITHOUT i/o redirection (for screen
positioning) ga
Dan Burton Sounds like same problem I guess we need to get the next
version.
AFL Dyfet You snuck a question in there, Parik :). GA Dan, or was that your
comment?
Dan Burton I'm done
AFA Gary J Q = Parik, Chaos, Kevin
AFA Parik :P I was next in queue
DaviesDoug !
A2Pro Tim Parik - I haven't used the "APW debugger" for some time now....
A2Pro Tim Instead, I've been using its replacement... :-)
AFL Dyfet Strangly enough the next question was from Parik anyway :) GA
Doug.
DaviesDoug don't ya just type OFF to see the text screen?!
AFA Parik I haven't. :)
A2Pro Tim (have you tried DaviesDoug's idea?) :-)
AFA Parik No, heh, guess I will. :) ga
DaviesDoug whats the replacement? and it's doug davies
AFL Marty *simple.. just write perfect code :)
A2Pro Tim (sorry 'bout that Doug - _I_ didn't type your screen name
backwards... :-)
AFA Gary J Q = Parik, Chaos, Kevin
AFL Dyfet I believe we (still?) are on Parik's question :)
AFA Parik !@#$%^&*()done)(**&^%$#@!
DaviesDoug what's the replacement for the debugger tim?
AFA Parik (although I see someone discussing UN-ANNOUNCED PRODUCTS!! hmm.
shame! :)
A2Pro Tim (aren't we on Chaos's question?) :-)
AFL Dyfet NiftyList? :) I believe our next question is from Chaos. GA
Chaos. (you are
AFL Dyfet right Tim!) :)
AFA Gary J Q = Chaos, Kevin
Chaos 89 Do you know of any good references on file management or database
programing
Coach101 Tricky move Tim :)
Chaos 89 for the IIGS and GSOS?
A2Pro Tim no, 'fraid not...
A2Pro Tim The last database book I had was on how to write database routines
in
A2Pro Tim IBM (ugh) basic (years ago...)
Chaos 89 I'm looking for one in 65816 for starters.
AFL Dyfet A reminder...we will be picking the lucky winner in about 20-25
mins :).
DaviesDoug (we already did, tim :) , thanks)
AFL Dyfet Anyone else have a favorite book to recommend?
AFA Parik !
A2Pro Tim (is Doug still in the queue somewhere about the replacement for
APW Debugger?)
Coach101 !
A2Pro Tim (he asks gracefully)
AFL Dyfet GA Parik.
AFA Parik Check through OLD AppleSoft books. Many of them did contain
Database programs
AFA Gary J Q = Chaos (Parik), Kevin
AFA Parik so you can fool around with that (one I remember is with a Apple
across a
AFA Parik rainbow and it looks really pretty, 1982 or so :)
AFA Parik ga
AFA Gary J Q = Chaos (Coach), Kevin
AFL Dyfet Okay...GA Coach.
Coach101 Chaos, I would concentrate on finding a good book on data
structures
Coach101 and then apply the algorithms to whatever language you are using
Coach101 on the II-GS. As far as algorithms go, the series from Knuth is
hard
Coach101 to beat (and understand at times). Personally, I learned what
I
Coach101 know by reading the code of existing systems.... Then I know it
Coach101 works in both theory and practice!! ga
Chaos 89 Thanks. (done)
AFA Gary J Q = Chaos, Kevin, Doug
AFL Dyfet I've read about your file manager, coach...hope to be seeing that
goodie
AFL Dyfet soon :). I believe the next question is from Kevin (meant record
manager),
DaviesDoug (I didn't ask a question)
AFL Dyfet GA Kevin.
KEVIN95 Is it possible to write a program to play multitrack music on the
IIe?
AFL Dyfet Yes you did, Doug :)...
AFA Gary J :)
AFL Dyfet Any comments on this?
A2Pro Tim I've never tried to write multitrack music - you're outta my area
of knowledge
A2Pro Tim on that one. SORRY! :-(
DaviesDoug (oh yea, I remember now!)
AFA Gary J heheh
AFL Dyfet I haven't had any experiance in that area either, Kevin. I
believe our next
AE PhilM !
AFL Dyfet comment is from Phil. GA Phil.
AFA Gary J Q = Kevin (Phil), Doug
AE PhilM Are you talking about MIDI?? Phasor/Mockinboard sound?? or just
the II
AE PhilM GA
KEVIN95 Either MIDI or just the IIe but not sound digitizing
AE PhilM Master Tracks Pro for the IIE is a real good program for that.
Not real easy
AE PhilM to write though.
AE PhilM Applied Engineerings Phasor is not bad also. (done)
AFL Dyfet Okay, thank you Phil. Are there any more comments?
AFL Dyfet Okay, I believe our next question is from Doug. Do you remember
it? :) GA
AFL Dyfet Doug.
DaviesDoug What replacement for the IIGS Debugger, Tim? (hehehe, as he asks
innocently)
A2Pro Tim :-)
A2Pro Tim I'm glad you asked....
AFA Gary J :)
AFL Dyfet :)
AFA Gary J Q = Doug
AE PhilM :)
Coach101 :)
DaviesDoug :)
A2Pro Tim It just so happens that I recieved my Spring 1989 APDAlog in the
mail yesterday
A2Pro Tim (did yours come yet?)
AE PhilM Got the feeling we all know something you dont??
A2Pro Tim and on page C-12 is this "NEW" blob that really tends to catch the
eye of the
Coach101 &*(^&*%*
AFA Gary J (mine didn't)
A2Pro Tim reader...
A2Pro Tim Next to it is a headline which reads: GSBug and Debugging Tools
v.4.0B1
DaviesDoug imagine that
A2Pro Tim This baby is the the "APW Debugger" what GS/OS was to P16 (far,
far, far better
AE PhilM Gee and I thought Apple was giving up the "Closed Lip Policy"
Coach101 ?
A2Pro Tim (Phil - I dunno - we're not supposed to talk about the Closed Lip
Policy)
A2Pro Tim :-)
DaviesDoug Can't wait to get mine, maybe tommorrow
Bud Gehr LOL
A2Pro Tim Doug - does that answer your question? :-)
AE PhilM Pssst - OK not a word.
AFL Dyfet Read my closed lips
DaviesDoug yep....can you tell us anymore about it? :)
AFA Gary J Any details on what it does?
A2Pro Tim It a new debugger that's geared towards GS/OS....
Coach101 Anything else in this _hypothetical_ spring APDA?
AFA Gary J Q = Doug (Tim), Coach
AFL Dyfet Yeah, some of us don't have that efficient a post awful...
AFL Dyfet :)
A2Pro Tim let's see - the description says things like:
A2Pro Tim save a trace history to a file on disk...
A2Pro Tim define and use memory protection windows
DaviesDoug what would be really neat is to be able to go into the debugger at
any time....
Chaos 89 !
DaviesDoug and start tracing from there :)
A2Pro Tim view the debugger's master display (you have to see it to believe
it)
A2Pro Tim Doug - glad you mentioned that...
A2Pro Tim :-)
AFA Gary J hmmm!
A2Pro Tim 'Cause this one's got that feature...
AFA Gary J Q = Doug (Chaos), Coach
AFL Dyfet Hmm...reminds me of my VAX debugger :) GA Chaos...then we'll
switch back to
AE PhilM Sold...I'll take three.
AFL Dyfet more of this debugger :)
Chaos 89 Is this a Beta version?
A2Pro Tim you just hit some key sequence (which escapes me at the moment)
and poof -
A2Pro Tim there ya are.....
DaviesDoug data structure template would be nice too
Dave Lyons (Option + Apple-Ctrl-ESC)
A2Pro Tim Chaos - yes, it's a beta version... V4.0B1
AFA Gary J Does it use the "Nifty List" data file? :)
A2Pro Tim (Yeah - what Dave said)
A2Pro Tim No - only Nifty List does that... :-)
Dave Lyons Nope, it doesn't know anything about Nifty List, and NL doesn't
know about the debugger.
AFA Gary J :)
DaviesDoug will they ever meet? :)
AFA Gary J Q = Doug, Coach
A2Pro Tim but it does come with SEVERAL desk accessories - most of which are
brand new...
AFL Scott (Vax debugger..)
TBGTender anyone meet M&M&M&M&M&M&M&M&M&M
TBGTender ?
A2Pro Tim There's a revision to the infamous Loader Dumper and Memory
Mangler CDA's
Chaos 89 Is there a price?
AFA Gary J Q = Doug, Coach, TBGTender
A2Pro Tim and there's a new one called "Scrambler"
A2Pro Tim price = thirty bucks...
DaviesDoug does it handle the (1,S),Y instructions properly now?
A2Pro Tim Doug - <shrug> I'm not sure (Dave - do you know?)
Bud Gehr $30 hummm...thats CHEAP!
A2Pro Tim There's also a CDA version of the GS/Os exercisor in there...
DaviesDoug scramler....sounds like it moves memory blocks....,
DaviesDoug around or something like that :)
A2Pro Tim (of course, the standard, "application" version of the GS/OS
exercisor is
A2Pro Tim there as well.
A2Pro Tim )
Dave Lyons I didn't know about any problems with (1,S),Y in the first place.
Don't know.
Dan Burton Doesn't anyone else besides WordPerfect programmers use (1,s),y?
AFL Dyfet :)
DaviesDoug we need a [1,S],Y for handles
A2Pro Tim Doug - yep, Scrambler is just the thing to flush out those handles
you
A2Pro Tim didn't dereference properly...
A2Pro Tim If you didn't lock your handles properly, Scrambler will let you
know QUICKLY
DaviesDoug hehe
AFA Gary J Q = Doug, Coach
Coach101 Available now????
A2Pro Tim As the name implies, it "scrambles" memory...
A2Pro Tim Coach - as soon as you get your Spring APDAlog (mine came
yesterday), then
A2Pro Tim call and find out...
Doctor Why Just what you need to sort cards? :)
Dave Lyons (It scrambles only parts of memory which could *potentially* be
scrambled anyway, not ones that
Dave Lyons you have locked down properly.)
DaviesDoug whew
AFL Dyfet Okay, do we have any more comments?
AFL Dyfet Before moving on to Coach's question, it is time to announce the
winner of
AFA Parik mememe! hehe :)
AFL Dyfet the extra two hours of connect time....and the winner is (unless
proven
A2Pro Tim Parik - you warming up to start singing??? "mimimimi" ... :-)
AFL Dyfet inelligible...) Dan Burton! Would you like to step forward now
so we can
AFL Dyfet record that you can claim your prize?
AFL Floyd <Shucks, I never win anything> :(
AFA Parik ()()() Dan falalalala
ShrinkIt :(
ShrinkIt hee... :)
Dan Burton dan went home this is doug davies...his co-worker, he said I could
have....
Dan Burton it since....
AFA Gary J Yeah Dan!!
Dan Burton he gets free time here anyway
AFA Parik LOL Dan
Dan Burton cause he does stuff in AWP
AFA Parik Er, Doug :)
AFL Dyfet Argh...It seems hard to find someone without a free account around
here :)
AE PhilM LOL
AFA Parik Gimme $12 bucks instead. :)
AFA Gary J :)
A2Pro Tim Yeah, but who one the all-expense paid trip to Walla-walla
Washington???? :-)
Dan Burton well?
AFL Dyfet I'm afraid we will have to move to the next choice on the list
then...:)...
Bud Gehr Andy, what is the latest version of Shrinkit that you have
released?
A2Pro Tim c'mon snake eyes! Rol them dice...
A2Pro Tim :-)
ShrinkIt 2.01
A2Pro Tim er, Roll (missed an "l" in there)
AFL Dyfet And the winner is...(looking over list...suspense growing...Chaos
89!
Chaos 89 Thanks, I CAN USE IT.
AFL Cheryl what did Chaos win?? :)
Dan Burton boooo!!!
AFL Dyfet Please step formward Chaos...and hopefully you can use it!
ShrinkIt (Bud -- 2.01 is current... it's in the a2 telecom processing utils
area...)
AFL Cheryl Parik...shame on you!! :)
AFA Parik Scott started it! :)
AFL Floyd It's also in the Utilities Communications Processing Utilities
area. ;)
DaviesDoug booo!!!
AFL Floyd Those two areas are linked. :)
AFL Dyfet I take it your not an AppleLink employee or anything like that
:)
ShrinkIt (I wuz gonna say that.. 'specially since I'm between jobs... ;)
Chaos 89 No I'm not
Bud Gehr Thanks Andy!
AFA Gary J Great!
Bud Gehr Keep up the good work!
AFL Scott did not!!:)
AFL Dyfet Cheryl: Chaos just won himself 2 hours of connect time!
Congradulations,
DaviesDoug thanks a lot dan :(
ShrinkIt (but the whole description of where to find it wouldn't fit on one
line..sooo..
AFL Dyfet Chaos!
AFA Parik did too :P Don't feel bad Doug, just charge a extra 3 hours to
Dans account
Chaos 89 Thank you very much.
AppleLink AFA Parik rolled 0 0-sided dice:
Coach101 My ? was answered....
AFL Dyfet Now, *CRACK*, returning to PROTOCOL :), I believe our next
question is from
AFA Gary J Q = Coach (I think!)
AFL Dyfet TBG, as Coach's has been answered.
AFA Gary J Ok.
AFA Parik TBG is gone
ShrinkIt (we all just _luv_ whips, dave... :) hee..
AFA Gary J TBG left though.
Brin Londo ?
AFL Dyfet He is? Okay...GA Brin, your up now :)
AFA Gary J Q = Brin
Brin Londo Okay to ask strict ToolBox ?'s
AFL Dyfet Sure
A2Pro Tim sure, I can make up answers to those also...
A2Pro Tim :-)
Brin Londo Start QDII It grabs SHR screen will FindHandle(ptr(addrs)) let me
use?
Brin Londo If addrs is $E12000
AFL Dyfet Do you mean is that area locked?
Brin Londo yes
Brin Londo Hard to debug behind SHR screen.
AFL Dyfet Well, I don;t believe QD does anything by the handle. It just
knows where the
AFL Dyfet SHR screen is, and probably just locks that area for the sake of
memory
AFL Dyfet manager.
AFA Gary J (If you crash while in SHR mode, type CONTROL-T <Return>)
Brin Londo Ctrl-T? gets to text mode?
AFA Gary J Yes
AFL Dyfet Yes, from the monitor.
AFL Cheryl makes sense :)
AFA Gary J A monitor command.
Brin Londo Oh, yea It's amazing what you forget after reading 15 manuals. :)
AFL Dyfet Do we have any more questions or comments?
Coach101 ANy other goodies in the spring APDA log for II-GS types?
Brin Londo ?
A2Pro Tim hmmmmm
AFL Dyfet Okay, GA Brin.
Brin Londo Hints, (resounding hints on the software front), how about
hardware?
AFA Gary J Q = Brin
Brin Londo For AppleFest
A2Pro Tim huh?
Brin Londo They said YES. You heard it here first Folks!
AFL Dyfet eh?
AFL Cheryl you didn't hear anything, Brian....
AFA Gary J What?
Brin Londo I love to spread rumors...
AFL Cheryl oh...did you ask WHICH Afest???? :)
A2Pro Tim (he calls that a "yes"??? whooooeeee, sell him some swamp land
and a bridge!)
A2Pro Tim :-)
AFL Dyfet Don't quote me, I have non-descs to think about :)
Brin Londo Okay, see you in S.F.
AE PhilM ?
AFL Cheryl that's more like it :)
AFA Gary J Q = Phil
AFL Dyfet GA Phil.
AE PhilM How many folks tonight will be attending the Developers
Conference???
A2Pro Tim Me.
A2Pro Tim :-)
AFL Dyfet In Kansas?
AFL Cheryl I'd like to....how do I get in?? :)
AE PhilM No In Cupertino.
AFL Cheryl (back door??) :)
AFL Dyfet Oh.
A2Pro Tim San Jose actually...
A2Pro Tim :-)
Brin Londo Company pulled my plug on S.F. but will go to Kansas.
AE PhilM Close
AFL Dyfet What company, Brin?
Brin Londo MCE Inc./Lawrence Productions (educational software)
A2Pro Tim Phil - I'll be there everyday except Monday.
AFL Dyfet Oh by the way, I would like to thank Tim for being our patient
guest here
AFL Dyfet tonight and officially end protocol :).
A2Pro Tim <applause sign lights up>
AFL Cheryl hi Jer :)
Brin Londo Yeah Time. ][ ][ ][
AE PhilM Has Apple recieved a lot of A2 Attendees? Tim-or would you know.
A2Pro Tim <the crowd goes wild>
AlphaGraph hello
AFA Gary J ()()()()()() Thanks, Tim.
A2Pro Tim Phil - don't know...
Brin Londo Time = Tim
Coach101 Thanks Tim!
AE PhilM ()()()() Thanks for your time, Tim.
A2Pro Tim my pleasure... See ya again sometime.
A2Pro Tim If you're going to AFest, look me up. I'll be manning the booth
and I'll be
A2Pro Tim on a couple of the panels for conferences.
AFL Cheryl what booth, Tim?? (showing my ignorance) :)
A2Pro Tim Apple's. :-)
AE PhilM See ya there, and at the Developers Conference.
AFL Cheryl silly me :)
A2Pro Tim I'll be looking for ya Phil! Maybe we can grab Mike and go get
lunch one day.
A2Pro Tim :-)
AE PhilM Just like old times except you insetad of David.
A2Pro Tim :-)
AE PhilM How is Dave by the way, understand he got promoted several
times.
A2Pro Tim David is my boss's boss. :-)
AE PhilM Seemed like only a couple of year's ago he was regular folk.
Congrats to him.
A2Pro Tim I'll pass that on...
AFL Cheryl well, don't all shout at once :)
Bud Gehr ?
AFA Gary J Ok
AFL Dyfet Yes Bud?
Bud Gehr Phil whats the latest on the TWGS shipping?
Bud Gehr Any idea?
AE PhilM Lots o problems--we're trying real hard--shipped about 300more
today.
A2Pro Tim I'm heading out gang.... see y'all next time. Go check your
mail boxes for
A2Pro Tim your new APDAlogs. :-)
AE PhilM Bye Tim
AFA Gary J Goodnight, Tim. Thanks.
AFL Dyfet Gnight Tim :)
Bud Gehr I ordered one from CDA and am on their list of the of the first 40
they will
AFL Cheryl bye Tim :)
AFA Gary J (I'll meet the mailman tomorrow :)
A2Pro Tim :-)
Bud Gehr ship when they do get them in stock. I am REALLY anxious!
AE PhilM We are shipping them as fast as we can. Big, big backorder
though.
AE PhilM And the order keep comming.
AE PhilM Go to go make the TWGS (donught comercial)
AFA Gary J It is a product that is long overdue for the IIGS.
Bud Gehr NO doubt about that!
AFL Dyfet I'm sure the backorder is huge there :)
AFA Gary J It's obvious from the response.
AE PhilM It was a real tought one to make. Seems everything is getting
harder and harder
AE PhilM to do
AE PhilM You know technology expanding everyday. A real complicated
product.
AE PhilM If it's any consolation, It's difficult for AE employees to get
one themselves.
AE PhilM Only the software folks (myself included) are getting one to
increase productio
AE PhilM n
Bud Gehr Phil have you seen the mail on ATB that Herr Fixit left about the
the lack of
Bud Gehr spedd increase he has seen on a TWGS equipped GS?
AE PhilM No, tell me more...
AFL Dyfet Oh??
Bud Gehr I really find that hard to believe.
AFL Dyfet Very
AE PhilM I'm new to AL just got on a week ago. What is ATB??
Bud Gehr He basicly says that he did not think that window updates and such
were sped
AFL Cheryl Across the Boards...
AFL Cheryl a message base that linkss all the Apple // forums
Bud Gehr up much.
AFL Dyfet ATB is a shared message base between ALL the Apple II forums,
Phil.
AFL Cheryl and there's one for the Mac Forums, too :)
AFA Gary J Someone (I don't remember who) was trying to compare it with disk
I/O alone.
AFA Gary J It's in "Let's Discuss..." for all of the forums.
Bud Gehr Sorry I didn;t realize that Phil was unaware of the ATB.
AE PhilM Disk I/O is limited to 1MHz. Nothing we can do about it.
AE PhilM Not a fair test of CPU power.
AFA Gary J I know, but that was what this guy was comparing on. It wasn't a
fair test.
AE PhilM He should know what he is doing before he publicly displays
misleading info.
AE PhilM I'll check it out and download it for the folks at AE to see. I
really didn't
AE PhilM know.
Bud Gehr He highly endorsed the Ohio Cache card though!
AFA Gary J I haven't seen Herr Fixit's post, though.
AFA Gary J (At least I don't think I have)
AE PhilM That what the OKS was designed for...I/O speed increase. A
different product.
AFA Gary J How long ago did Herr Fixit make the post, Bud?
AE PhilM Totally different...not the same thing.
AE PhilM I too like the OKS card it is very nice...
Bud Gehr I'm not sure how long ago it was, I "think" it was in a TWGS
folder.
AE PhilM Overall you will see an average increase in speed of 2.2 times on
CPU based
AE PhilM tasks
Bud Gehr It should even make the fill routine I did for CheapPaint look
fast if it is...
AE PhilM It's a difference you will really notice after using one for a
while and then
Bud Gehr half as big an improvement on the GS as I have heard!
AE PhilM switching back to slow speed (2.6mhz)
AE PhilM You can try it now for comparison switch from (2.5) to (1) and see
the
AE PhilM difference.
AE PhilM Time the disk at 2.6 and 1 and there is little difference
AE PhilM Convince yourself--this is true.
AFA Gary J Try playing "Wings of Fury" at 7 Mhz. :)
Bud Gehr I am COMMITTED to getting a TWGS and have no doubts about it at
all Phil.
AE PhilM I'm not a sales person, but this is one product that speeks for
itself. I
Bud Gehr I just got a bit irked when Herr Fixit mentioned he so no real
screen update...
AE PhilM would recommend it even if I never heard of AE.
Bud Gehr improvements, which I really find hard to swallow.
AE PhilM I would also recommend the OKS card or Ramkeeper with lots of RAM
for I/O
Bud Gehr Herr Fixit is big into hardware sales here on ALPE BTW, I got an
Epic 2400...
AE PhilM speedup
Bud Gehr modem from him for $50 (reconditioned)
AE PhilM Not bad...not bad at all.
Bud Gehr and he continues to sell them here at that price.
AFA Gary J What could be "unconditioned" about a modem?
AE PhilM If it works, buy it.
Bud Gehr Returns he no doubt bought from Epic I would guess.
AFA Gary J Must be.
AE PhilM What happened to Epic. Anyone know??
Bud Gehr I had been using a Datalinker 1200.
AFL Cheryl I'd want to know why they had to be reconditioned...Epic modems
haven't been out that long!!
Bud Gehr As far as I know Epic is still in business, but they stopped
selling the Epic
AFL Cheryl As far as I know, they're still around...I have 2 Epic mini2400,
and one regular 2400 from them.
Bud Gehr classic 2400 and are now selling the Epic Classic II 2400.
AFA Gary J I "won" an Epic Mini 2400 at AppleFest SF last Sept. It works
great.
Bud Gehr BTW Phil does AE have an upgrade policy for the 1200?
Bud Gehr to the 2400 I mean.
AE PhilM Yes, but I don't know what it is--Call sales
Bud Gehr Ok. The Epic in my view is not as good as my datalinker as far as
acting..
Bud Gehr predictably with all software I have run it in. The Epic sometimes
refuses to
Bud Gehr dial with ALPE software.
AFL Cheryl that's funny...I had to swap my epic to a friend who's datalinker
was on the 'fritz'!!
AFL Cheryl Phil...what's the warrantee on the datalinker??
Bud Gehr at the local Apple dealer, I am not conviced that it is "that
much" faster or..
AE PhilM 5 Years just send it in..first call Tech Support for an RMA
number.
Bud Gehr better then my GS.
AFL Cheryl great...I just have to check that it is in fact 'dead'...but it's
not acknowledging the dial tone
AE PhilM Funny you should say that..I've got an SE at work and it seems a
little slow
AE PhilM compared to my TWGS GS.
AFL Cheryl on his GS..with ALink..
Bud Gehr Cheryl, my datalinker never acted weird at all in the year that I
have owned it
AFL Cheryl I set this friend up with ALink, configured his GS, etc...and got
him logged on...
Bud Gehr Phil I worked out with a IIcx and then the SE and both were not
really stunning
AFL Cheryl then he got sick, and didn't use the modem for about 4
months...last week he called me, he couldn't
AE PhilM Yes, but I don't know what it is--Call sales
AE PhilM I want a Mac SE!!!
AE PhilM How did you manage to pull that off.
Bud Gehr Ok. The Epic in my view is not as good as my datalinker as far as
acting..
Bud Gehr predictably with all software I have run it in. The Epic sometimes
refuses to
AFA Gary J I was VERY lucky. It was a local radio station contest.
Bud Gehr dial with ALPE software.
AFL Cheryl that's funny...I had to swap my epic to a friend who's datalinker
was on the 'fritz'!!
Bud Gehr I was seriously thinking of buying a Mac SE, but after using it
for a while...
AFL Cheryl Phil...what's the warrantee on the datalinker??
Bud Gehr at the local Apple dealer, I am not conviced that it is "that
much" faster or..
AE PhilM 5 Years just send it in..first call Tech Support for an RMA
number.
Bud Gehr better then my GS.
