AppleLink
APPLE II DEVELOPMENT FORUM CONFERENCE LOG
March 28, 1989 10:00 p.m. Eastern time
Pippin Auditorium
Topic: A2-Central and Call-A.P.P.L.E Magazines
Forum Leader: James Luther (AFL Jim)
AppleLink Welcome to the Pippin auditorium and the Apple II Development
Forum.
AppleLink Tonight, we have guests from two magazines that cater to the
development
AppleLink community, A2-Central and Call-A.P.P.L.E.
AFL Jim From A2-Central, we have Tom Weishaar and Dennis Doms.
AFL Jim Say hello, Tom and Dennis.
ADV Guest2 Hello!
AFL Jim (Tom Weishaar = ADV Guest2)
DennisDoms ...hello also.
AFL Jim From Call-A.P.P.L.E., we have Kathryn Suther and Cecil Fretwell.
AFL Jim Good to have you two, also!
CecilFret Howdy
KSUTHER hi
AFL Jim Here's a little information about the auditorium and how it
works...
AppleLink The Pippin (@) Auditorium is one of four areas for
"big-name" events on AppleLink. The large capacity room
allows you to attend the festivities with hundreds of other
AppleLink members.
AppleLink During our event tonight, you'll see a number on the
top left hand side of your screen, reflecting the
number of onstage participants--guests and hosts.
The number in the upper right tells you how many
people are in the audience.
AppleLink We welcome and encourage any questions and
comments you may have during the course of
tonight's Apple extravaganza. However, to
keep the event running smoothly, we've
disabled the Chat line at the bottom of your
screen.
AppleLink To send your questions, select the "Ask A Question"
option on the "Auditorium" menu, write your comment
and send it! At an appropriate moment in the
conversation, we will broadcast your questions for
our guest speakers.
AFL Jim Now that we have that out of the way, I'd like to ask you all what
your
AFL Jim magazines have to offer developers. Let's start with Tom.
ADV Guest2 A2-Central is an 8-page monthly newsletter...
ADV Guest2 We're probably not as programming oriented as Call Apple is...
ADV Guest2 anymore. We do cover some programming questions, but we also cover
a lot...
ADV Guest2 of AppleWorks stuff, general IIgs questions, and bugs, service
notes, news,...
ADV Guest2 and so on. The biggest Developer Centered thing we have is a
Developers Conf..
ADV Guest2 Conference just for Apple II people, which will be held at Avila
College...
ADV Guest2 in Kansas City this summer--July 21 and 22. GA
AFL Jim Hmmm... I know I'll be at that, Tom!
AFL Jim Kathryn, as editor of Call-A.P.P.L.E., what would you say the
focus of your
AFL Jim magazine is?
KSUTHER We focus our attention on helping developers and programmers. The
programs
KSUTHER we publish can serve as skeleton for develpers to modify and use
in their own
KSUTHER work. We are trying to incorporate many different languages and
programming
KSUTHER environments: from BASIC to C.
KSUTHER We also have a special service our consultants who can help people
with
KSUTHER programming problems. They are available by phone and online.
KSUTHER ga
AFL Jim OK, my next question while we get ready for questions from the
audience is...
AFL Jim What do you look for in submissions to your publications and how
do you submit
AFL Jim articles?
KSUTHER We look for technical articles, well written and submitted both on
disk
KSUTHER and with hard copy. Hard copy is important for fomatting tables,
etc.
KSUTHER We are open to topics ranging from languages to hardware related
issues.
AFL Jim Tom, how about A2-Central?
ADV Guest2 We've never published an article that just came in. We've
ADV Guest2 comissioned one or two, and we publish a number of letters
ADV Guest2 from readers every month. If someone has something good,
ADV Guest2 however (and SHORT), I'd be interested in seeing it. When
ADV Guest2 we do take something from authors, our pay is competitive
ADV Guest2 with the magazines.
AFL Jim Thanks!
AFL Jim We'll start taking questions from the audience now.
AFL Jim Gary has the first question from BillP...
Question So... one at a time.... What do you all see for the future of
the Apple II line?
ADV Guest2 I see the future of the Apple II line extending off into
ADV Guest2 the future. I think we'll see more companys making clones
ADV Guest2 now that the Laser--Apple suit has been settled in Laser's
ADV Guest2 favor. And I think Apple will continue to make incremental
ADV Guest2 improvements to the IIgs and Apple II peripherals. GA
AFL Jim Kathryn, what's the view from up in Washington?
KSUTHER I too agree that the II will be here for some time. Why these
rumors start
KSUTHER is really beyond me. People are dedicated to these machines. Even
if Apple
KSUTHER left it, we'd still be here. I don't see this happening, myself.
AFL Jim Our next question is from BillP again...
Question Is your advertising directed more towards programmers too?
AFL Jim Kathryn, why don't you start...
KSUTHER I think programmers tools and resources, hardware do better in our
magazine
KSUTHER We've never been much with games for example so advertisers avoid
us there.
ADV Guest2 We don't actually have any advertising, however, we do have
ADV Guest2 a monthly catalog of products that we sell to subscribers...
ADV Guest2 That has a lot of development-related products in it, such
ADV Guest2 as the Addison-Wesley Apple II Reference Manuals, Merlin
ADV Guest2 16-Plus, Micol Basic, and more. GA
KSUTHER Call is also trying to include the programming utilities and books
our readers
AFL Jim I believe you have something like that too, don
AFL Jim 't you Cecil?
KSUTHER need in our catalog. We feel it is a service we can provide. It's
getting
KSUTHER better, still has a ways to go.
CecilFret Don't forget we are a co-op and started out as the A.P.P.L.E.
Co-op
CecilFret We still are a co-op via Techalliance and have advertisement of
co-op in
CecilFret center fold
AFL Jim Marty Knight would like you to comment on this...
Question I'd like to hear your comments about the 'demise' of A+
magazine.
DennisDoms It may be a minor "shakeout"; companies jockeying for a market
that they...
DennisDoms have a more direct interest in (by "companies" I mean the parent
publisher)...
DennisDoms I think that we'll have to wait and see what the "merged" issues
bring; if..
DennisDoms elements of both magazines are combined it may actually be a
positive...
DennisDoms development (more info in a more "robust" issue). GA
KSUTHER I think the cost of producing magazines and the competing
advertising market$%
KSUTHER has a lot to do with it. Perhaps like Dennis said, it may work out
for
KSUTHER the best, combining the two together.
AFL Jim Our next question is from A Gibber F...
Question We can thank MacWeak for a scare to the Apple // community...
However how do you view
Question Apple's committment to the Apple // line.. Do you see only
superficial changes or Major changes
Question as New technology comes out?
AFL Jim Kathryn, could you start?
ADV Guest2 Apple has said over and over that they intend to make
ADV Guest2 "incremental improvments" to the Apple II family. That's
ADV Guest2 what I expect we'll see. I don't think they're lying. GA
KSUTHER I agree. I don't think Apple would keep hiring such talented
people
CecilFret I agree with Tom (I don't take MAC Week). If anything, the IIgs
will grow...
KSUTHER for the II development side, if they were going to stand still!
CecilFret There is always teh possibility Apple will drop the IIe then the
IIc then
CecilFret move on up in the IIgs. It is a fact of life in a world where
technology
CecilFret is growing at a fantastice rate
DennisDoms I think you also have to consider that magazines for other
computers...
DennisDoms are not always "sensitive" to other users...we've been accused of
an...
DennisDoms anti-Mac bias, which may be because of our enthusiasm from the II.
It may...
DennisDoms be wise to temper reaction and see how Apple responds in terms of
products...
ADV Guest2 (Then again, it may be because of some of our cartoons :))
CecilFret Good point, Dennis
DennisDoms it's difficult, though, since such reports may actually
_influence_ what...
DennisDoms they describe. Fortunately, they don't run Apple!!! GA
AFL Jim hehe, Tom... Our next question comes from Takeyabu...
Question Is there still room in the app;e development market for the
part-time enthusiast who works
Question at a non-computer related job and just dabbles a little or is it
all too sophisticated for that
Question now?
KSUTHER We have a developers channel that is set up to help developers
with the
KSUTHER writing of documentation, the production side etc. And evaluation
of the
KSUTHER product. It might be something you'd like to look into.
CecilFret One problem always is competition. The part-time enthusiast
stands just as...
CecilFret good a chance as anyone. I have a good friend who is president of
a company
CecilFret yet has found time to develop a good package. You just have to be
in the righ
CecilFret place at the right time. Yes I think the part-time developer has
as good a
CecilFret chance as anyone else.
ADV Guest2 How important is it to make money at it? If you're satisfied
ADV Guest2 with glory, I'd start by writing public domain stuff, get it
ADV Guest2 online and make a name for yourself. Then do some shareware...
ADV Guest2 With a name, you have a better chance of getting a regular
ADV Guest2 publisher to pick up your work. GA
DennisDoms If you look at the history, a lot of innovative programs are
witten by...
DennisDoms "nonprofessionals"...if it's somethin you enjoy, go for it; maybe
you'll...
DennisDoms think of a revolutionary approach, like VisiCalc was when it
arrived.
CecilFret TOm makes some really good points regarding starting with public
domain.
CecilFret That is certainly one route. The other route is to publish
articles.
CecilFret I wrote a bunch and Call -A.P.P.L.E> rejected a bunch. Once we
got to know
AFL Jim (or do both :)
CecilFret each other, the final result was my being technical editor. The
key is
CecilFret establishing a name
AFL Jim OK, our next question is from BillP again...
DennisDoms Something else that is important is to know the importance of
"small" but...
DennisDoms critical tips. A bug report or a "quickie" program that gets
published...
DennisDoms may break open a critical problem for someone else.
AFL Jim OK, we'll get Bill's question now...
Question Maybe this into personal reasons but... why did you choose to
have a more techincal
Question format rather then alot of game reviews and goop?
ADV Guest2 We're just combining what we do well with something that
ADV Guest2 makes a living. It's fun, and we like it, and it feeds the
ADV Guest2 kids.
ADV Guest2 I don't think a novice-level newsletter would do as well
ADV Guest2 because it costs SO much to get new subscribers and because
KSUTHER Call -A.P.P.L.E. started in 1978 publishing technical information
that
ADV Guest2 most novices I've met aren't interested in paying what it
ADV Guest2 costs for novice-type information.
ADV Guest2 GA
KSUTHER Sorry Tom. Since we started in 78 we have returned to our roots.
KSUTHER I worked with people from 1980 on, Cecil and Ken Kashmarek.
These
KSUTHER folks kept up with the technical movement. We feel that was our
niche and
KSUTHER should continue to be our focus. It is fun, exciting and
rewarding.GA
CecilFret By our own admission, we are more toward the technical side.
There is still...
CecilFret still a good sized audience of readers who want the technical
stuff.
CecilFret Technical types are still needed to iron out the gorry details of
the internals
CecilFret of a system. We try to cover that niche. A2-Central does a
fantastic
CecilFret job of also filling some of that gap. If I have a tough question
to answer,
CecilFret I head for A2 Central. IT rarely fails me.
AFL Jim Our next question tonight is from NW Man...
ADV Guest2 (Thank you, Cecil.)
Question Which magazenes steer toward Apple hardwar development?
ADV Guest2 There aren't any.
DennisDoms I wish there were!
AFL Jim Kathryn, are you planning on doing any more hardware articles?
CecilFret Hardware development is so complex anymore, it takes a team not an
individual
KSUTHER Peter and Allen Baum had a series for a while. I don't think it
was geared
KSUTHER toward hardware development; but it did answer questions people
had.
KSUTHER Allen will be returning with an article on RISC in the near
future. We hope
KSUTHER to encourage more from him in the future. Also we are looking to
have a
KSUTHER regular hardware column. So, perhaps some day.GA
AFL Jim OK, the next question is from Takeyabu....
Question Has having a IIGS hurt the Apple publishers by creating a market
for the IIGS crowd and
Question another audience for the IIe and IIc both wanting more for their
machine and less for the other?
ADV Guest2 We don't really get too many complains about our split of
ADV Guest2 coverage. Oh, sometimes I overdo one or the other, but most
ADV Guest2 readers seem intereted in both. After all, all the IIe/IIc
ADV Guest2 stuff works on the IIgs, and most IIe/IIc people want to know
ADV Guest2 how the IIgs works too.
ADV Guest2 GA
KSUTHER We've had problems with our IIe and IIc folks. Obviously our
coverage
KSUTHER leans towards the GS. It's just we've been around for 10 years.
We've
KSUTHER published most of the tips and want to be putting out the new
technical\
KSUTHER information people can't get elsewhere. Eventually, we hope to
increase
KSUTHER our pages and supply our IIe and IIc folks with more information
also.
KSUTHER Helps to have advertisers aide us in this quest.GA
CecilFret Ok, we welcome articles on the IIe, IIc, etc. Most of the
articles we receive
CecilFret are on the IIgs. So if you have an idea for an article on the
Standard II
CecilFret (before IIgs) send it to us and we will take a look at it.
Believe it or
CecilFret not the standard II people are screaming for articles.
AFL Jim I think we're going to head over to the Apple II Development
Forum's
AFL Jim conference room now that our hour here is up. Thanks for coming
tonight and
AFL Jim I hope to see you over there in a minute. To get there, type
Open-Apple-K, then
AFL Jim the keyword ADV and select conference room on the menu.
AFL Jim Thanks for coming tonight, Cecil, Tom, Dennis and Kathryn!!
AFL Jim This is fun!
CecilFret Good night, my pleasure. I had fun.
AFA Gary J Thank you, A2-Central and Call-A.P.P.L.E.!!
KSUTHER Yeah. I think I know where the dollar sign is now. Thanks
CecilFret Are we done, I am headed over to the AII place
AFL Jim See you threre...
AFL Jim Hi again!
AFL Vince Howdy Jim
CecilFret I'm here
AFL Dyfet Hello.
ShrinkIt hi dave!
AFL Jim It looks like Richard Williams from Nibble had trouble with the
phone company
AFL Dyfet Oh dear...
AFL Jim tonight. He was waitin for a line to get hooked up.
AFL Vince Wondered what happened to them..
AFC Mark Hi, Kathryn...
KSUTHER Hi Mark. Good to see you. I wanted to tell Tom about talking you
into
KSUTHER writing for Call.
DennisDoms Hi.. haven't picked up my mail yet. :)
ADV Guest2 How did you do that, KS?? I thought we OWNED Mark. Shoot.
AFL Jim Tom, is this srange being a guest here?
CecilFret Dennis, you got the airfield picked out yet?
AFL Jim strange
AFC Mark Bang. (Perhaps not owned... but a good solid Lease! B-)
KSUTHER Tom, you have a way with publishing great stuff at the right time.
I
DennisDoms How about an expedition to one of the
DennisDoms "extravagant" hotels? :)
KSUTHER suppose you have plans for icons too like us? Ah, I love your
work and
KSUTHER don't feel in competition. Pat on the back for you!:)
ADV Guest2 You can have icons all to yourself for now.
CecilFret I agree with Kathryn Tom. I truly do use you a lot of times when
I get into
CecilFret trouble on an article.
ADV Guest2 Jim, not so strange. Remarkably similar to our system, now that
I've seen
Matt DTS I have this article on how the GS/OS Cache works, and I need to
find a publisher for it someday soon.
KSUTHER Well, I'll have to nudge Mark again, right Mark?
ADV Guest2 it. But I miss /nam :)
CecilFret Go for it MAtt
AFC Mark huh... B-)
DennisDoms Matt! Were you in the audience?
Matt DTS I was. Why?
KSUTHER Matt, I was wondering when you'd jump on the bandwagon? Let's take
a look.
AFL Jim That's in the Customer Service area, Tom...
DennisDoms Can I ask about the Apple Tech Tidbits that says slot 5 is
preferred...
DennisDoms for the SCSI interface on a IIgs? :)
AFL Jim I figured Dennis would show you that (some assistance _I_ get :)
Matt DTS "Preferred" = "only slot that allows four partitions under ProDOS
8"
ADV Guest2 Nah, Dennis didn't show me nuttin.
AFL Jim Good job, Dennis :-}
DennisDoms Now that would make sense, actually. But wat do you do when
you...
CecilFret I got a CMS hard drive. Plugging the interface card into Slot 5
would sort of
AFL Dyfet To think, he'll be my problem soon :)
CecilFret mess things up wouldn't it?
DennisDoms have to load software (which comes on...all together now?)?
Matt DTS 3.5" disks?
CecilFret Like collide with me 3.5" and 5.25" drives? Never did understand
the smart port
DennisDoms :)
Matt DTS If P8 finds a SmartPort interface in slot 5 with more than two
units, it will...
Matt DTS ...shadow the third and fourth units to slot 2, drives 1 and 2.
Matt DTS It doesn't *care* whether this is the IIgs internal SmartPort
(with more than 2 3.5" drives)...
Matt DTS ...or the SCSI card with more than two partitions or devices.
ADV Guest2 Matt, I think what we're getting it is why doesn't P8 do that for
slots...
DennisDoms GS/OS will handle multiple partitions in slot 7, though; will
anyone...
ShrinkIt what if there's a fifth unit? does it just dissappear?
ADV Guest2 6 and 7, too???
Matt DTS If you want more than 2 partitions, slot 5 is the only place to
put it to get to them from P8.
DennisDoms need more than 64 megs for their 8-bit stuff?
Matt DTS Any units beyond the fourth just vanish under P8.
CecilFret Gotta run folks. Must take wife for a walk.
ShrinkIt rats...
Matt DTS References: IIgs Firmware Reference, ProDOS 8 Tech Notes #20 and
#21.
AFL Vince night, Cecil
AFL Jim Bye and thanks, Cecil!
AFL Dyfet Gnight Cecil, thanks for comming...
DennisDoms I read the notes last night, Matt. Good job!
CecilFret Any time Jim. YOu here too Vince. Good show on disk stuff
AFA Gary J Goodnight, Cecil!
AFL Jim (Matt's working on Tech Notes again tonight...)
DennisDoms 'Night, Cecil.
Matt DTS You're welcome (or thanks, which ever is appropriate).
AFL Dyfet Naturally...he works best while on-line...
AFL Dyfet :)
AFL Jim probably not...
ADV Guest2 Matt, any chance we'll see P8 enhanced to provide 4 units on slots
6 and 7?
ShrinkIt So, when is this 'KansasFest' thing? How much is it? Where is
it?
DennisDoms I've thought about patching ProDOS 8 (ducking...)...
ShrinkIt zoom, over dennis' head... :)
Matt DTS That would mean shadowing extra drives to slots 1 and 3 or 4. 4
is often used by pascal users...
AFL Jim Andy, there's a press release in the Forum Business category on
the Conference.
ADV Guest2 Kansas City. July 21-22. $300 (before June 1). Includes meals and
free dorm
AFL Marty (that's like rewriting the Bible :)
Matt DTS ...3 interferes with /RAM, and a certain well-known integrated
WP/SS/DB program for 128K Apple IIs...
ADV Guest2 accommodations. All the great Apple II developers will be
there!!!
Matt DTS ....doesn't like devices shadowed to slot 1.
AFL Dyfet I'm very tempted to go for this event myself...
ShrinkIt Dorm? Like roommate type dorm?
AFL Jim It's actually close to you, Dave.
AFL Dyfet Very true.
AFC Mark Matt... while you're on the subject... is there a reason why
Applelink chews...
ShrinkIt You mean I might get to room with matt? heh... ;)
AFC Mark Make that Appletalk! OOPS...
DennisDoms The WP/SS/DB can be patched (doesn't follow Apple protocol).
ADV Guest2 Ah ha. Thank you Matt. Obviously, the idea has come up before.
AFL Dyfet It's a very cheap air fair from Chicago...
AFL Vince I'm running my Sider in slot 1 since 7 has Appletalk in it...
works great with everything so far
AFC Mark runs out of 7 instead of 1?
ADV Guest2 Like bathroom down the hall dorm. Hotels also available starting
at $33/night.
AFL Dyfet And I would have the chance to meet some of the people here...
AFL Vince no, runs out of 1.. :)
DennisDoms Vince: you had trouble with interrupts and term programs (w/AT)?
AFL Jim As long as your card doesn't use the screen holes, it'll work OK
in the slot
AFL Vince Dennis, no... works fine with Proterm, and Alink... I've found no
problems as long as you're carefull
AFL Jim used for AppleTalk.
AFL Vince with P8 printer drivers.. :)
AFL Jim (slot 1 or 2)
DennisDoms Dave - weren't yo on the trolley in SF (Applefest, 1987)?
DennisDoms Proterm drops characters on me...hmmm. Maybe something else,
then.
AFL Dyfet Why does everyone ask that?
AFL Jim Were you????
DennisDoms I tried the Apple II workstation card in the IIgs, but that was a
problem.
DennisDoms :)
AFL Dyfet No, actually...
AFL Vince Dennis.. I havent managed to get hold of one yet... :(
AFL Jim I was %-}
AFL Dyfet I have a couple of the cards here...
AFL Jim (and I remember very little of it)
AFL Vince You using them, Dave?
DennisDoms I was hoping to use the WS card in 1 and not have to tie up 7 and
1/2.
AFL Dyfet Haven't used them for much except testing AppleTalk stuff on
//e's...
Matt DTS Gotta run, gang - "
Matt DTS "The Wonder Years" is almost on and I'm not home yet.
DennisDoms 'Night, Matt.
AFL Jim See you tomorrow, Matt
AFL Dyfet At one time I was thinking of doing some Appleshare utilities...
ADV Guest2 I've already seen it. Wanna know the ending Matt?
KSUTHER Bye Matt. I'll bug you soon.
Matt DTS G'night.
ADV Guest2 Ah, the wonders of time zones.
KSUTHER Thanks and I Vince!
DennisDoms Two problems with card. One is the RFI toroids won't fit (easily)
through..
DennisDoms the IIgs case shielding. The other is software, but that's
inconclusive...
DennisDoms so far (I need to set it up again and test).
AFL Vince Dennis, why bother using one on the GS? The GS has Appletalk
already...
ADV Guest2 slots...slots...slots
AFL Jim Dennis, put an Apple SCSI in slot one or two and then you don't
waste the slot.
ADV Guest2 Jim, are you saying the Apple SCSI doesn't use the screenholes?
What about
DennisDoms Slot 1 (which much software expects). Jim, I may not be using a
SCSI card...
ADV Guest2 the AppleWorks printer contention problem Matt just mentioned?
AFL Vince Jim.. I've never tried putting the SCSI in 1 with Appletalk on...
It will work with any card that
AFL Vince does not use the screen holes..
DennisDoms in slot 7 (I'm not using an Apple card now.).
AFL Jim I use my Apple SCSI in slot one all the time (and I use
AppleWriter :)
KSUTHER Geez haven't you moved up to Zardax yet?
AFL Vince ah... good to know it works!
DennisDoms I've used the SCSI drive at home I/F'ed to 2, but that is a
kludge, frankly.
AFL Jim I need to find out if Chinook's card uses the screen holes.
AFL Vince No telling... they dropped production..
AFL Jim Chris would know, though...
AFL Vince they ship the Apple card now, or at least offer it as an option.
ShrinkIt Does anyone here have a Transwarp GS yet? Is it worth getting?
AFL Scott Parik..
AFA Gary J Parik does :)
AFL Jim Tim Swihart says it is, Andy...
ShrinkIt (no, don't say a word, parik)
ADV Guest2 It's been fun, gang. Thanks for inviting me, Jim. Gotta go.
AFL Vince Andy.. I watched a GS with one work on the same document as a Mac
with MacWrite, side by side, and
AFL Vince the GS w/Transwarp won!
AFL Jim Bye Tom! See you this summer!
AFA Gary J Goodnight, Tom. Nice having you on.
KSUTHER Bye Tom!
AFL Scott Alright!!!!
AFL Dyfet Night Tom. Hope to see you in summer...
AFL Jim MacWrite isn't a good comparison, though... it is slow.
AFL Vince true... :)
AFL Vince but so is AWGS.. :)
AFL Jim hmmm... Claris....
ShrinkIt it won using AWGS? the TWGS really *IS* fast! wow...
AFL Vince Andy... I'm withholding judgement until I see IF a new GS is
actually coming in May, but the one I saw
AFL Vince in action convinced me!
AFA Gary J Parik? (He must be in mail...otherwise he would have jumped all
over the
ShrinkIt Nothing is coming in May... not a new cpu anyway... as far as
anyone knows...
AFA Gary J chance to comment on TWGS :)
AFL Vince does he have one now?
AFA Parik its great
AFL Dyfet I was about to ask what happened to Parambo :)
ShrinkIt ok, parik, spill it.. :)
AFA Parik whats there to say, its great!!!! i loveit!! :)
AFA Parik I was using fastext with it today, the output is faster thanthe
prosel 16
AFA Parik shell!
AFA Gary J Does it speed up AppleLink?? :)
AFA Parik don't know, i use this gs for applelink. it makes your little
windows in
AFA Parik finder not show up (those little grey boxes that always are
opening and closing
AFA Parik and its pretty good. I was using the orca desktop, WOW. Scrolls
fast, no
AFL Vince (hmm... instant jump option appears to be in.. :)
AFA Parik waits, etc. good stuff. I *LOVE* the bootup screen of the
transwarp, it shows
AFL Dyfet That feature can be turned off on the Mac finder (exploding
boxes...) (hint
AFL Dyfet to somebody)
AFA Parik a graphics screen with the words "Transwarp GS" scroll in, do some
nifty stuff
AFA Parik and then run out in full 16 colors. Its also got a sound of a
digitized
AFA Parik airplane (?) powering up. AE JOhnS wrote all the firmware.
AFA Parik 32k of ROM. wow
AFL Dyfet I WANT ONE :)
ShrinkIt I WANT ONE, TOO :)
AFL Jim Just think, Parik. You've probably already saved that 20
minutes...
AFL Jim in CPU time
AFA Parik :) saved a lot more. a green light on the board is on when the
cache is being
ShrinkIt Parik, do you have merlin Plus? did you try that on the TWGS yet?
how fast?
AFC Mark Easy way to do that... Boot AWGS... twice!
AFA Parik used, so its fun to watch it flicker when programs switch between
firmware and
AFA Parik ram. its very fast Andy, link's programs in a few seconds.
ShrinkIt Like how many seconds? 1?
AFA Parik yup. of course, its a 10 line program. :)
AFL Jim I major project, Parik? :)
AFA Parik But seriously, it speeds up everything basically 2-3 times. The
book has a
ShrinkIt I wonder how fast it would link ShrinkIT 2.0? It takes 11 seconds
now...sheesh
AFA Parik programmers appendix which tells you how to mess around with it.
ShrinkIt what's to mess with?
AFA Parik Its entry points are contained in bank $BC, wonder whats the
significance.
AFA Parik You can change the speed settings, etc.
AFL Vince Anyone work with Merlin 16+ yet? Is it worth another $45 for the
third update in two years?
AFL Dyfet As if Merlin 16+ wasn't fast enough already...
ShrinkIt yes, it's worth it. It blows everything else away by a mile.
AFL Dyfet It's NOT an update!
AFL Dyfet It's a whole new product, and it's truelly wonderful.
AFL Vince Upgrade then... semantics... :)
AFA Parik I like Orca myself, more used to the editor. :( haven't tried
replacing
AFA Parik editors yet, have you andy?
ShrinkIt yes
AFA Parik and?
ShrinkIt yeah, I used to use randy brandt's rose editor... I need a new
version, there
ShrinkIt are some strange things wrong with 0.45...
AFA Gary J I'm going to send for the new Merlin 16+, but haven't yet.
ShrinkIt Do it, you'll never forgive yourself if you don't get it.
AFL Vince Think I'll go ahead too, Gary.. :)
AFL Jim Do they offer upgrades from Merlin Pro (old 8 bit)?
ShrinkIt Vince, merlin 816 links shrinkit 1.1 off my HD in 37 seconds.
Merlin+ takes 11.
AFA Gary J Hmmm.... the flyer I got doesn't mention Merlin Pro.
AFL Vince Jim, $45 is the Upgrade fee... must have a serial number, and have
returned your card..
AFL Dyfet They might give upgrade pricing that far back, I don't know
Jim...
AFL Jim I'll have to ask Roger.
AFL Vince Dont know if it works for the older verison though.
ShrinkIt The editor is alot faster, too.. as is the assembler..
AFA Gary J It was $60 for upgrade from OLD Merlin to Merlin 8/16.
AFA Parik You're a nice guy Jim, i'm sure he'll refuse.
ShrinkIt Yes, it does work for the older version.
AFL Jim hehehe
AFA Gary J (OLD was pre- Merlin Pro)
ShrinkIt in that case, I'm not sure...
AFL Jim I started with Merlin, then I got Merlin Pro. I stopped there and
switched to
AFL Jim ORCA.
AFA Gary J One thing I wish Roger Wagner would do is update the Merlin
manual. Merlin 16+
AFL Vince I've been using Orca, but the desktop system seems to crash a lot
on me..
AFA Parik don't inhale too many herbs
ShrinkIt EVERYONE HERE WHO USES ORCA, GET FASTEXT!!
AFA Gary J just comes with an update booklet.
AFA Parik and apw andy.
ShrinkIt (It speeds up the text toolkit speed by abut 100%)
AFA Parik Do you have it on ROMdisk Vince?
AFL Vince Parik, no, I dont use a ROM disk or a RAM disk.
AFA Parik Also make sure you're using the latest version (1.1b or something
like that),
AFA Parik I used the older version and it would crash into m/l on bootup
periodically.
AFL Vince with over 100 megs of HD space, why bother?
ShrinkIt what's the difference between 1.1a and 1.1b?
AFA Parik be-cuz its fassstttt....:)
AFL Jim one works, the other???
AFA Parik bug fixes and GS/OS macros.
AFA Gary J (I have 62 megs of HD space and still boot from a ROM disk)
ShrinkIt what bug fixes? why didn't I get some sort of notice in the mail?
hmmmmm...
AFA Parik Hi GSTeach!
AFL Vince I've got 1.1b and if your program has a minor bug, or if you
havent figured out memory management yet,
AFA Parik I didn't either Andy, I called Mike up.
GSTEACH YO! Howdy folks!
AFL Vince it will almost always crash..
AFA Parik after a while the desktop gets to be a pain, esp if you write
buggy code (like
AFA Parik me :). Its faster using the shell.
AFL Jim I use the shell, because I like it :)
AFA Gary J The shell IS nice.
ShrinkIt I use the shell because it's easy to replace the slow parts with
fast ones..
ShrinkIt (like the editor, linker, etc)
AFL Vince I like to cut and paste routines, so the desktop made that nice,
however, the giveaway doesnt seem
AFL Vince to be worth it.
AFA Parik You can still cut & paste from editor.
AFL Vince its not as nice though, parik.. :)
AFL Jim I'd like a better editor, but I haven't really seen one I like
yet.
ShrinkIt One of the ed's I have can do it between multiple files at once...
like the
ShrinkIt desktop
AFL Jim EMacs?
AFL Vince that's what I need, Andy..
AFL Jim or Rose 16?
ShrinkIt No, a thing Jason Blochowiak (the author of gs/make) wrote, the
Hurricane Ed...
ShrinkIt It's very fast... pull-downs, the works. You can have, switch
between, edit,
AFA Parik It whips your code into shape...
ShrinkIt and cut & paste between up to 8 files in memory at once...
