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APPLE II DEVELOPMENT FORUM CONFERENCE LOG
January 17, 1989  10:00 p.m. Eastern time
Topic: Apple IIGS Toolbox
Forum Leader: James Luther (AFL Jim)


AFL Jim    Welcome to the Apple II Development Forum! Tonight's topic is the
          IIGS Toolbox.
AFL Jim    We'll be following protocol in the conference room tonight, so if
          you have a
AFL Jim    question, type a question mark on a line by itself like this:
AFL Jim    ?
AFL Jim    If you have a comment to make on the current discussion, type an
          "!" on a line
AFL Jim    by itself like this:
AFL Jim    !
AFL Jim    Gary will keep track of who's up next and I'll call on you when
          it's your turn.
AFL Jim    Any questions?
AFA Gary J Q = Mr Stanley
David JF   ?
Mr Stanley How do you begin the VBL to make it search the heartbeat queue?
AFL Jim    OK, go ahead, Mr Stanley
AFA Gary J Q = Mr Stanley, David
SEGlass    !
AFL Jim    GA Steve
AFA Dennis (power failure.  I'm off.  Bye)
AFA Parik  (Bye Dennis :(
SEGlass    Do you mean, how do you start the interrupts?
Matt DTS   (Bye Dennis, but I don't see how the two are related... <grin>)
Mr Stanley Yes!
Mr Stanley I cant find the tool
Mr Stanley #
SEGlass    There is a misc.tools call called IntSrc.
AFA Parik  ?
Matt DTS   The release notes for 4.0 and the TB Ref. Update underwent some
          parallel...
AFA Gary J Whew! <back!>
Matt DTS   ...writing, so I think it's safer to have them both.  I do.
Matt DTS   That covers all the sound toolsets.  GA.
Mr Stanley !? (related question)
DaviesDoug ?
AFL Jim    GA Mr Stanley
David JF   Do I need "Sound Tools ERS Rev 2.1" or is there a later, more
          complete version?
Mr Stanley How can I get this update?
AFL Jim    Q= David (Mr S), Doug
AFA Parik  ?
JimLaz     ?
AFL Jim    You can get the update from the Apple Programmmer's and
          Developer's Association
Matt DTS   These products are both only available from APDA, Mr. Stanley.
SEGlass    !
AFL Jim    Their address is:
AFA Gary J Q = David (Mr Stanley), Parik, DaviesDoug, JimLaz
AFL Jim    ut oh... what is it?
AFL Jim    They've moved.
AFL Jack   as of the 18th it's at Apple!
AFA Gary J hehe
Mr Stanley Are they on alink?
Matt DTS   Geez louise.  My APDA information, my Sound Tools ERS and
          everything else...
Matt DTS   ...are all at work.  I can't find anything here (just moved all
          the computers).
AFA Gary J I've got it..
AFL Jim    GA Gary
Matt DTS   Aha!  Found the Sound Tools ERS, and 2.1 is the latest version.
AFA Gary J Phone number:  1-800-282-APDA
AFL Jim    Ahhh... you can call APDA at 1-800-282-APDA
David JF   My Apple APDA card shows a phone # 800-282-APDA.
AFA Gary J For placing orders:
AFA Gary J 20525 Mariani Avenue, M/S 33G
AFA Gary J Cupertion, CA  95014-6299
Matt DTS   (or even Cupertino)
AFL Jim    You have to be an APDA member to place an order, though.
JimLaz     Guys I don't think that APDA want that phone number to be given
          out to non-
JimLaz     members.
DaviesDoug !
AFA Gary J hehe...right, Matt!
AFL Jim    Call the 800 number for membership info.
Matt DTS   Jim:  I don't believe they mind.
AFA Gary J Cupertion = Cupertino
Mr Stanley How can I become an APDA member?
Matt DTS   They will be publishing it with the mailing address in future
          promotional...
AFL Jim    The 800 number is in an Call-APPLE ad.
Matt DTS   ...material.  Mr. S:  Call that number and ask them.
JimLaz     Thought I read that somewhere. Maybe in the old organization.
AFL Jim    Doug, a comment?
DaviesDoug Seems that when I use FFStartSound the volume isn't quite as loud
          as if....
David JF   ga
Matt DTS   The old APDA had an order-only line which was private.  (finally
          done, GA)
AFA Gary J Q = David (Mr Stanley), Parik, DaviesDoug, JimLaz
DaviesDoug I use the sound chip directly
DaviesDoug even if I specify a volume of $FF
Matt DTS   !
AFL Jim    GA Matt
Matt DTS   Is this true even if the volume level in the Control Panel is at
          maximum?
DaviesDoug YES matt
DaviesDoug Sierra online uses the chip directly...and they can really belt it
          out
Matt DTS   Let me look for a few minutes (ga).
AFL Jim    While Matt's mind grinds that question up, let's get your
          question, Parik
AFL Jim    ga
AFA Gary J Q = Parik, DaviesDoug (Matt), JimLaz
AFA Parik  2 questions, is the toolbox quick-reference "fixed"?  :)
AFA Parik  Also, are there any benefits of being in APDA if already certified
          developer?
AFA Parik  GA
Matt DTS   Don't know at this point - send mail to "AFL Tom" and ask him.
AFA Parik  (thats the new APDA :)
SEGlass    !
AFA Gary J Q = Parik (Steve), Doug (Matt), JimLaz
AFL Jim    Parik, I think you have to be an APDA member to buy stuff from
          APDA even if
Matt DTS   [I'm sorry, I'll follow protocol.  I'm just excited.  GA]
AFL Jim    you're a certified developer.
AFL Jim    Steve, GA
SEGlass    I don't know the answer to the first, but for the second
          question,
SEGlass    I think there are advantages to being part of APDA for any
          developer.
SEGlass    You get info on products from other sources than just Apple.
SEGlass    A good example in the GS world is the tools from Byteworks and
          TML.  You
SEGlass    can hear about them and buy them this way.  Its a good $20
          investment.
SEGlass    GA
Matt DTS   !
AFL Jim    Matt, GA
AFA Gary J Q = Parik (Matt), Doug (Matt), JimLaz
Matt DTS   With the added functionality of having APDA in house, Apple's
          Developer Group..
AFL Jim    (Matt's all over)
Matt DTS   ...will continue to consolidate services making dealing with both
          APDA and...
David JF   Bye
SEGlass    (He's not that big.)
AFA Gary J (At least we have him between the parenthesis! :)
AFL Jim    Bye David
Matt DTS   ...other parts of Apple even easier than ever for certified
          developer.  GA.
Mr Stanley (:)
Matt DTS   (I know where you all live.)
AFA Parik  Better send that survey in quick I guess.  :)
Matt DTS   (even scarier, I know where Steve works.)
AFL Jim    (and he has access to my office BEFORE I get there)
Matt DTS   !
AFL Jim    GA Matt
AFA Gary J Q = Parik (Matt), Doug (Matt), JimLaz
Matt DTS   I already have my copy of the next APDAlog (Apple's first), since
          I'm a...
Matt DTS   ...contributor, and I have to say it's looking good.  I think
          you'll all be...
Matt DTS   ...impressed with the way it's set up and produced.  GA.
AFA Gary J !
Mr Stanley ?
AFL Jim    OK, Are we done with your questions, Parik and Doug?
DaviesDoug Yes
AFA Parik  yup
AFL Jim    OK Jim, your turn!
JimLaz     Does anyone know when the Toolbox update and the GS/OS Reference
          Manual (vol 1)
AFA Gary J Q = JimLaz, Mr Stanley
JimLaz     will be released in there final versions?
Matt DTS   !
JimLaz     there=their
AFL Jim    GA Matt
Matt DTS   No.  GA
Matt DTS   <just kidding>
AFL Jim    hehe
AFL Jim    that's probably no comment
Matt DTS   Work continues on both volumes, of course, but there don't seem to
          be any...
AFA Gary J Q = JimLaz (Matt), Mr Stanley
Matt DTS   ...(or many) significant errors or omissions in the beta drafts
          now available.
Matt DTS   We've found several small things, and a couple of things that
          should be added..
Dave Lyons !
AFL Jim    There's Tom now!
SEGlass    Yea, those writers were pestering us even today... GA
Matt DTS   ...before it's printed in hardcover for eternity, but they're very
          stable. GA.
Dave Lyons How 'bout a beta of GS/OS vol 2?
JimLaz     It's just that I hate to buy the beta drafts and then have to buy
          the final
JimLaz     versions.
AFA Gary J Q = JimLaz (Dave), Mr Stanley
AFL Tom    Yea, so what?
Matt DTS   Dave:  It's getting there.  It's a big book, it's taken time.
AFL Jim    Parik, want to ask Tom your first question?
AFA Parik  Didn't Dave has Tom's question?  :)
AFA Parik  Oh, MY question.  Umm, is the toolbox reference "fixed"?
Matt DTS   Jim:  Would you rather everyone had to wait until the final
          hardcover ones...
AFL Tom    You mean the Quick References?
AFA Parik  yup
Matt DTS   ...were printed?  The beta drafts are there for those who wish to
          have 'em.
AFL Tom    Well, the C one is being checked right now, and Assembly is being
          worked on by the formatters.
DaviesDoug ?
AFL Tom    Should be out today or tomorrow, and then checking.
AFA Parik  great!
JimLaz     No, but I still would rather get the final version if I can help
          it.
AFA Gary J Q = JimLaz (Matt), Mr Stanley, Doug
JimLaz     And it looks more and more like I will have to get the beta if I'm
          going to get
AFL Jim    The whole idea behind APDA is to get beta material out to the
          developers who
Matt DTS   Jim: that's about all I can say.  If you want to wait for final,
          you can...
JimLaz     to work on my current big project.
AFL Tom    (Which doc are we talking about?)
Matt DTS   ...but some people prefer not to wait for final manuals to use the
          stuff.  GA.
AFL Jim    want it or need it before the final editions are printed.
AFL Jim    I held onto my II plus until the IIe had been out for 2 years -
          everything was
AFL Jim    in final versions by then, but I was way behind developers that
          started in
AFL Jim    January of '83.
AFL Jim    Mr Stanley, GA with your question...
AFA Gary J Q = Mr Stanley, Doug
Mr Stanley Heres the idea I had: if you could write a program which would
Mr Stanley interupt another, pass control to a second program
Mr Stanley and soon after interupt it couldnt multitalking be emulated?
Mr Stanley oops MultiTasking
Dave Lyons !
DaviesDoug !
AFA Gary J Q = Mr Stanley (Dave, Doug), Doug
AFL Jim    It would be simple multitasking, but I think most people think of
          multitasking
AFL Jim    as an operating system function.
AFL Jim    GA Dave
Dave Lyons There are a _lot_ of issues involved in MultiTasking.  First off,
          what system
Dave Lyons are we talking about?  128K & ProDOS 8?  GS/OS and a big GS with a
          memory
Dave Lyons manager & lots of toolbox routines?
Mr Stanley BIG GS!!!
Dave Lyons Ok, on the GS the toolbox routines aren't currently designed to be
          used by
Dave Lyons more than one application at once, and there isn't even a way to
          _preserve_ the
AFA Parik  !
Dave Lyons complete current state of all toolsets for resuming another
          application later.
AFA Gary J Q = Mr Stanley (Dave, Doug, Parik), Doug
Dave Lyons That's _one_ problem.  ga
AFL Jim    GA Doug
DaviesDoug Maybe you'll see something from WordPerfect soon that does this
          successfully :)
DaviesDoug :)
DaviesDoug GA
Mr Stanley I want to beat Word Perfect! :)
Mr Stanley GA
AFL Jim    GA Parik
AFA Parik  whats the point?  All you're doing is running programs one after
          the other, its
ScottG25   !
AFA Parik  not true multitasking (one program works while the other does too
          :).  Doug,
AFA Parik  tell us more.  :)
AFA Parik  ga
AFA Gary J Q = Mr Stanley (Scott), Doug
Dave Lyons !
AFL Jim    Will he or won't he??...
DaviesDoug who just sent me that flash note? (sorry for talking out of
          turn)
AFL Jim    mememe
AFL Jim    Scott, got a comment? GA
Floyd Zink !
ScottG25   To elaborate on what Parik said... true multitasking involves an
          awful lot...
AFA Gary J Q = Mr Stanley (Scott, Dave, Floyd), Doug
ScottG25   I even wonder if the current GS could handle all the interrupts
          without...
Mr Stanley (ths GS can handle anything!)
ScottG25   starting to crawl... it's and interesting concept, tho...
ScottG25   GA
AFL Jim    OK Dave, GA
Dave Lyons Parik, there's definitely a point to having a Switcher type
          application; it was
Dave Lyons useful on the Mac years before MultiFinder was available.  Same
          idea as
Dave Lyons SoftSwitch, but for 16-bit programs.  Being able to resume an
          applicatino right
Dave Lyons where you left off (all documents open, etc) is neat.
          applicatino=...on
Dave Lyons (done)
AFA Parik  (you'd need 16 megs :)
AFA Gary J Q = Mr Stanley (Floyd), Doug
Dave Lyons (Mebbe, mebbe not....)
AFL Jim    OK Floyd, your turn...
AFL Jim    ga
Floyd Zink I wonder if you could intercept all the Startup and Shutdown tool
          calls and tap into the event mgr
Floyd Zink with the controling (switcher) program.  If one of the
          applications still needs a tool, don't shut
Floyd Zink it down.  Then clean up when they all quit. ga
Dave Lyons !
AFL Jim    Dave, GA
Dave Lyons There's lots more to it than that--I can work on some examples,
          but in general
AFA Gary J Q = Mr Stanley (Dave), Doug
Dave Lyons there is info you can configure in a toolset that there is no
          defined way to
Dave Lyons preserve.  You'd need to get the tools back in the same state they
          were in,
Dave Lyons not just keep them active.  A trivial example is the SFAllCaps
          call.  This one
Mr Stanley !
Dave Lyons wouldn't be a major problem if the caps settin for Standard File
          wasn't
ScottG25   !
Dave Lyons preserved, but it illustrates something there's no way to check
          the status
Dave Lyons of to preserve.  ga
Floyd Zink That's true, but this is the first time I've thought about it.
          :)
AFL Jim    GA Mr Stanley
AFA Gary J Q = Mr Stanley (Mr S, Scott), Doug
Mr Stanley Assuming an 8 meg GS you could copy the _entire_ Toolbox into ram
          and have 2
Mr Stanley separeate sets, but this unfortuatly would be real  slow!!
Dave Lyons !
Mr Stanley Bout in general do the toolbexes care about their former status?
Mr Stanley ga
AFL Jim    Scott, GA
JimLaz     !
ScottG25   User Id's could be used to track everything, if the tools
          preserved a users
AFA Gary J Q = Mr Stanley (Scott, Dave, JimLaz), Doug
Mr Stanley (now theres a good idea for a new toolset!)
ScottG25   state.... is this dreaming?  Just another thing to extend... and
          each user
ScottG25   would have his own area mapped for the state...sure, this is a RAM
          hog idea..
ScottG25   but it eliminates paging/swapping and makes context switching
          easier... GA
Mr Stanley (im still waiting for a 100meg ram GS)
AFA Gary J Q = Mr Stanley (Dave, JimLaz), Doug
AFL Jim    OK, Dave, then Jim, then we're moving on to Doug's next
          question.
Dave Lyons Copying toolbox code from ROM to RAM isn't going to help--won't
          run there as
Dave Lyons is.  Anyway, the reasonable way to keep separate states for most
          toolsets
Dave Lyons would be to _require_ them to keep all their state info in their
          work area
DaviesDoug Is there a list anywhere that shows the toolbox calls that can
          move an...
Dave Lyons (those could be changed by a switcher program), but a lot of
          toolsets still
DaviesDoug unlocked block of memory....the Mac does!
Dave Lyons keep stuff in their own code segments.  (A lot?  Some?)
Dave Lyons ga
AFL Jim    Jim GA
AFA Gary J Q = Mr Stanley (JimLaz), Doug
JimLaz     Never mind... GA Doug.
AFL Jim    (was that your question, Doug?)
Dave Lyons !
DaviesDoug I already did
DaviesDoug look above
AFL Jim    Dave a comment on Doug's question?
AFL Jim        ^ a comma there
Matt DTS   !
Dave Lyons I don't know of a comprehensive list, Doug, but in general assume
          that a call
Dave Lyons _can_ move memory unless you have a good reason to believe it
          doesn't.  Are
Dave Lyons you wondering about any particular calls?  Anything that allocates
          memory can
AFA Gary J Q = Doug (Dave, Matt)
Dave Lyons move unlocked blocks; this includes lots of QuickDraw operations,
          at least if
JimLaz     !
Dave Lyons regions are being created; it also includes GS/OS calls, since
          caching is
Dave Lyons happening, etc.  done
AFL Jim    Matt GA
AFA Gary J Q = Doug (Matt, JimLaz)
Matt DTS   Being very picky, only the Memory Manager actually moves unlocked
          blocks...
Matt DTS   ...around, but any toolset which depends on the MM (which is all
          of them) could
Matt DTS   conceivably force such a move to happen.  Even such a list as you
          describe...
Matt DTS   ...wouldn't do much good since new tools and tool calls are
          regularly added.
Mr Stanley ? (a quicky)
Matt DTS   GA.
DaviesDoug !
AFL Jim    Jim your comment... GAS
AFL Jim    A
AFL Jim    Ack!
JimLaz     If the call description says that it can return Memory Manager
          errors then you
AFA Gary J Q = Doug (JimLaz)
JimLaz     can be sure it'll move memory if it needs to.
DaviesDoug good jim!
JimLaz     ga
Matt DTS   !
Dave Lyons !
AFL Jim    GA Doug
AFA Gary J Q = Doug (Matt, Dave), Mr Stanley
DaviesDoug I know the Mac has a list
DaviesDoug Just a pain to lock a block when you don't need to
AFL Jim    Matt GA
Matt DTS   Don't mistake the Toolbox Ref's "Possible Errors" section for each
          call...
Mr Stanley !
Floyd Zink !
Matt DTS   ...to mean "ALL Possible Errors."  The reference (like the GS/OS
          Reference)...
JimLaz     !
Matt DTS   ...discusses the most probable errors, but others could occur...
Matt DTS   <Geez, what did I start??>  GA
AFA Gary J Q = Doug (Dave, Mr S, Floyd, JimLaz), Mr Stanley
Dave Lyons A list of calls guaranteed _not_ to compact memory would be very
          useful, tho.
AFL Jim    Matt, does this mean the tools that say they return no errors
          can?
Matt DTS   "No errors" is a different story.  Steve's more qualified to
          discuss that one,.
Matt DTS   [passing the buck so fast George Washington's head spins]
AFL Jim    Steve, any comment?
AFL Jim    :)
DaviesDoug steves not here
Matt DTS   He took off.
DaviesDoug he wimped out
AFL Jim    OK, Mr Stanley, GA
Dave Lyons You wouldn't have to include all the calls that can't _currently_
          compact--just
Mr Stanley (lol)
Matt DTS   Well, let me try it.  Hold on for a second while I compose my
          thoughts.
ScottG25   !
Dave Lyons ones you wanted to guarantee.
Mr Stanley You wouldnt have to worry about moving blocks if
Mr Stanley before evry time you directly acces the block
Floyd Zink -!
Mr Stanley you de-reference the handle
AFA Gary J Q = Doug (Stan, JimLaz, Scott), Stan
DaviesDoug That takes time
Mr Stanley the time diference would PROABLY be minimal
Mr Stanley unless you do it all the time
DaviesDoug and takes code (yeck!)
ScottG25   -!
AFL Jim    Jim GA with your comment
AFA Gary J Q = Doug (JimLaz), Stan
Mr Stanley it is easier to access memory using [handle] notation any way.
          ga
JimLaz     I know it's not a compleat list or errors, but it's something to
          concider.
JimLaz     ga
Matt DTS   ! (slightly ready)
AFL Jim    OK Matt, GA slightly...
AFA Gary J Q = Doug (Matt), Stan
Matt DTS   Jim:  Just pointing it out; some people believe it's all possible
          errors.  On..
DaviesDoug Did you know that if you hold the mouse down on the arrow on the
          scroll bar...
Matt DTS   ..."no errors":  I interpret it to mean that I probably shouldn't
          have to...
DaviesDoug that the banner scrolls across a lot quicker   :)
Matt DTS   ...do error-checking after that call.  That's not always the best
          way to do it.
Dave Lyons ! for Mr. Stanley
Matt DTS   An unexpected MM or GS/OS error could pop up, or a new revision of
          the tool...
ScottG25   <a serious system error just occurred>
Matt DTS   ...might require error reporting where none previously was
          needed.
Matt DTS   For example, I would probably check for errors on _SFGetFile, even
          if...
Matt DTS   ...I did nothing but report an error if I got one, but I wouldn't
          check...
AFA Gary J Q = Doug (Matt, Dave), Stan
ScottG25   !
Matt DTS   ...for errors on _GetHandleSize.  It kind of depends on what
          you're doing.
DaviesDoug I'm done
Matt DTS   That's the best I can do on it; "No errors" just means "we don't
          think you'll..
Matt DTS   ...get an error", as best as I understand it.  GA.
AFL Jim    Dave, your comment... GA
ScottG25   Carry is set on _S
Dave Lyons "[handle]" notation is never a valid way to accesss memory in a
          block; I must
Dave Lyons be misunderstanding you, Mr. S.  ga
ScottG25   <sorry>
AFA Gary J Q = Doug (Dave, Scott), Stan
Mr Stanley I meant double indirect addressing. ga
Dave Lyons ok
AFL Jim    Scott, your comment...GA
JimLaz     ?
ScottG25   Carry is set on _SFGetFile, now? It didn't used to be, to my
          recollection. GA
Matt DTS   !
AFL Jim    GA Matt
Matt DTS   I didn't say it was.  I just said that I might be likely to write
          maybe:
AFL Jim    (I need a macro for GA Matt)
Matt DTS   label _SFGetFile
Matt DTS         bcs errordeath
AFA Gary J (I need a macro for (Matt))
Matt DTS   ; Just because I'm paranoid
Matt DTS   (GA)
Dave Lyons ?
ScottG25   Oh, ok!
AFL Jim    Stan, let's get your question in here. GA
AFA Gary J Q = Stan
AFL Jim    Q + Dave
AFA Gary J (thanks!)
AFL Jim    Mr Stanley??
Mr Stanley Heres a quick one: Why do some toolsets Need Prodos 16 of GSOS?
AFA Gary J Q = Stan, Dave
Matt DTS   !
AFL Jim    huh?
JimLaz     of?
Dave Lyons of=?or
Matt DTS   (of = or)
Mr Stanley (yeah, sorry. didnt get eneough sleep)
AFL Jim    Because, some toolsets call the operating system....
AFL Jim    GA Amtt
AFL Jim    Matt
Matt DTS   (AFL Jim   GA, Matt.  Matt DTS   Thanks, Jim)
Dave Lyons !
AFA Gary J (You need a macro REAL bad, Jim!  :)
AFA Parik  (Gary :   ARRGGHGHHHH :-)
Matt DTS   Mr. S:  If you do an _InstallFont call to install a font that's
          not in memory,
Matt DTS   ...how's the Font Manager supposed to get it off the disk without
          GS/OS or P16?
Matt DTS   Similarly with the Scrap manager storing scraps to the disk, the
          Print Manager.
Mr Stanley Yeah, i understand that, but why does MM need it?????
AFA Gary J Q = Stan (Matt, Dave), Dave
Matt DTS   ...loading in printer and port drivers, the MIDI tools loading
          MIDI drivers,
Matt DTS   etc.  And since when does the Memory Manager require the OS?
JimLaz     !
Mr Stanley It does@!
Mr Stanley oops !
AFA Gary J Q + (JimLaz)
Matt DTS   (resorting to an old tactic he used with his sister) Prove it.
AFA Parik  heh
JimLaz     Which call(s)?
Mr Stanley :::::: Looking :::::::
Dave Lyons (Remove my old "!", but the Mem Mgr does _not_ require GS/OS or
          P16, as you can
AFA Parik  "did not"  "did too!"  "Did not!"  "did too!"  :-)
Dave Lyons easily see since the RAMdisk and P8CDA and lots of CDAs work
          without a 16bit
Dave Lyons OS!)
AFA Gary J Q = Stan (Matt, Dave, JimLaz), Dave
Matt DTS   Parik:  You know my sister?
Mr Stanley MM wont start with out prodos 16!!! (or GSOS!)
AFA Parik  (she's DTS at IBM :)
Dave Lyons Whaddaya mean by won't start?
AFA Gary J Q = Stan (Matt, JimLaz), Dave
Matt DTS   Mr Stanley:  No offense, but I think you've gone off the deep
          end.
Dave Lyons !
Mr Stanley You get an error! :::::STILL LOOKING:::::::::
Dave Lyons Idea--if you're calling MMStartUp under ProDOS 8 and nobody has
          allocated the
Dave Lyons memory you're making the call from, it'll return an error, I bet.
          Normally it
Dave Lyons does a FindHandle on the address you're calling from and returns
          the ID of
JimLaz     That's it Dave!
JimLaz     !
Matt DTS   Sounds reasonable, Dave.
Dave Lyons that block.  So try allocating the bank 0 memory first, _then_
          starting up the
AFA Gary J Q = Stan (JimLaz), Dave
JimLaz     -!
Dave Lyons memory manager!  Be prepared to proceed if the memory is already
          allocated, as
Dave Lyons it will be if you launched under P16 or GS/OS (or with P8CDA
          arond).
Matt DTS   !
Dave Lyons (arond=around) done
AFA Gary J Q = Stan (Matt), Dave
Floyd Zink <going to MDV chat in PIPPIN>
AFL Jim    Go Matt
Matt DTS   If you're using the Memory Manager from a P8 program, and you want
          to use...
Matt DTS   ...the auxID field of the User ID for your own purposes (as
          discussed in...
Matt DTS   ...IIgs Tech Note #17), be SURE the ID you get already has a ZERO
          in that...
Matt DTS   ...nibble before continuing.  GS/OS uses the auxID for it's own
          purposes...
Matt DTS   ...and an MMStartUp call from P8 while under GS/OS will return a
          $3000 ID with
Dave Lyons !
Matt DTS   ...a non-zero value in there.  Changing it to something else could
          dispose
Matt DTS   handles that belong to GS/OS that aren't yours to dispose.  Tread
          lightly.
Matt DTS   GA.
Dave Lyons I don't understand...so you should use GetNewID, or what?
Matt DTS   Yeah.  If you get a non-zero AuxID returned from MMStartUp, then
          you should...
AFL Jim    (hey, cut the protocol and continue at your leasure...)
Matt DTS   ...call GetNewID if you intend to modify the AuxID field for MM
          operations.
Dave Lyons Okay, I can dig that, Matt.
Matt DTS   <dig dig dig>
AFA Parik  GA ga GA ga ga ga ga...I'm sick of GA...
Dave Lyons I want to open up an old can of worms and ask what the A register
          means, if
Matt DTS   All right, protocol's dead - let 'em fly, boys...
AFL Jim    Goo goo
Dave Lyons anything, when a tool call returns with the carry clear.
AFA Gary J GA Parik
Matt DTS   ...(since Byte printed recently "there are no women
          programmers")
AFA Parik  :P
AFA Gary J :)
Matt DTS   Dave:  Should be zero.  If it's not, there's a tool bug.  BUT:
Matt DTS   In such an instance, you are to proceed as if no error has
          occured.
JimLaz     too, bad like to get my debuggers on a woman.
AFA Parik  heh heh Jim
Matt DTS   If the carry's not set, no error occured.
Dave Lyons Hmmm...judges?  Is that an answer? :)
Matt DTS   That's a definition.
DaviesDoug Anyone try my debugger trick?
AFL Jim    I've got to go. I'm still packing....
AFA Parik  I tried the p8 one Doug!
ScottG25   <Sounds like an official position to me)..
DaviesDoug work?
AFA Parik  workd nicely!  Too bad the debugger won't source out programs.
          :)
AFA Gary J Goodnight, Jim
AFA Parik  (worked fine)
Dave Lyons So to be safe in all cases you need to add a BCC *+5, LDA #$0000
          after all your
JimLaz     Off to the Cafe!
AFA Parik  Bye Jim
ScottG25   Night Jim!
Dave Lyons tool calls the way APW C does, right?
AFA Gary J Send me a log! :)
AFA Parik  GA Jim
Matt DTS   To be safe, the tool interface routines from the high level
          language...
DaviesDoug Matt, did the COMPACT get sent out today?
Matt DTS   ...and your assembly routines don't do a BNE or BEQ, but only BCS
          and BCC.
Mr Stanley <------- gotta go
Mr Stanley I hate to open a can of worms and run
Matt DTS   (after all, the last operation before the Tool Locator returned
          might have...
Mr Stanley but........SYAL
AFA Parik  Bye mr. stan
Mr Stanley Bye.
AFA Gary J Bye Stan.
Matt DTS   ...conditioned the zero flag the other way even if A is zero.)
ScottG25   Bye..
Dave Lyons I meant if you want to then always STA the error code, Matt, the
          way C does.
Matt DTS   Doug:  It will be sent this week (boss is out sick)(
AFA Parik  sick of who?  :)
DaviesDoug why not make it public domain
DaviesDoug and put it on here
Matt DTS   Doug:  Don't get into that.  Those questions are truly annoying
          for DTS people.
Matt DTS   ...to have to try and answer.
Matt DTS   "Don't ask me how it works or I'll start to whimper.
Matt DTS   :
Matt DTS   "
Matt DTS   We're engineers.  We don't set company marketing, sales or legal
          policy.
AFA Parik  YOU DON'T RUN APPLE?!?!?!
AFA Parik  ARGH!  :)
AFA Gary J Maybe that's a good thing.
AFA Parik  :-)
AFA Gary J Maybe not.
AFA Gary J :)
ScottG25   Night!
Matt DTS   Day!
AFA Parik  Twilight all!
Matt DTS   (sorry, isn't this the ASVAB?  Oh, I must be in the wrong
          room...)
Dave Lyons What's the status of the printed technotes?  And how long till we
          get 'em here?
AFA Gary J Matt, is APDA going to be carrying any 3rd party stuff?  Last time
          I placed
Matt DTS   They go in the mail this week (duplication's nearly finished)
ScottG25   OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
AFA Gary J an order, they told me they weren't, but I got the impression from
          you tonight
Matt DTS   Call 1-800-282-APDA, Gary.  They ain't me.
AFA Gary J that they would be?
AFA Gary J Yes, but you've seen the catalog!
Matt DTS   But I didn't read it cover to cover.
Matt DTS   (and you got that impression from Steve, not from me.)
DaviesDoug PB?
AFA Gary J oh yeah.  Sorry  :)
Dave Lyons So what's holding up the electronic versions?  Somebody waiting
          until the
Dave Lyons printed ones are mailed, or is it licensing, or converting them to
          text, or
Dave Lyons what?
Matt DTS   They're up on AppleLink Apple Edition.
Dave Lyons I know...so that makes it even more mysterious to me why they
          aren't here and
Matt DTS   Licensing sends a disk to the other services, who then handle them
          as they...
Dave Lyons on GEnie and CompuServe....
Matt DTS   ...choose.  Sometimes that takes some time.
Dave Lyons sends --> (a) sent, (b), will send, ....?
Matt DTS   We upload them in DTS to AppleLink Apple Edition.  That usually
          takes no time.
Matt DTS   I don't know.  I'm not licensing either.
Dave Lyons Okay.  Don't mean to sound unappreciative of all DTS's work...I
          just want to
Dave Lyons actually get to _see_ it!

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