Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: [l/m 10/3/2006] FAQ on FAQs n.g.FAQ
Followup-To: poster
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
From:
[email protected] (Eugene Miya)
NNTP-Posting-Host: sundance.cse.ucsc.edu
Message-ID: <45703444$1@darkstar>
Date: 1 Dec 2006 05:55:16 -0700
X-Trace: darkstar 1164981316 128.114.48.62 (1 Dec 2006 05:55:16 -0700)
Lines: 629
Path: senator-bedfellow.mit.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!headwall.stanford.edu!newshub.sdsu.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!tethys.csu.net!ucberkeley!news-hog.berkeley.edu!128.114.127.129.MISMATCH!darkstar!eugene
Xref: senator-bedfellow.mit.edu news.groups:550788
This is a prototype.
"FAQs: the billboards of the Usenet." --me
"I prefer to think of them as 99% of the useful content of Usenet. :-)"
--another person
FAQs are the first generation of community memory.
They began with the efforts of Mark Horton, Spaf, Chuq, myself and others.
They are called "Frequently Asked Questions" files, but I prefer
"Frequently Answered Questions" as you will note the news.group
is called news.answers, not news.asked.
Not every person calls them FAQ. "Periodic post" is another term, and some
posts (e.g., in news.announce.newusers) don't have special names or
designations. You have to learn to wing it.
FAQ maintainers mailing list:
Nick Boalch of the UK has recently replaced the FAQ Maintainers list
server at a service in the UK.
The one hosted by Kent Lanfield has been dead for years.
We're already working on various FAQ issues and getting the archive at
rtfm.mit.edu fixed.
Requests to subscribe or unsubscribe to the faq-maintainers mailing
list should be sent (in the Subject: of a message) to
To:
[email protected]
Subject: please subscribe me
subscribe faq-maintainers-announce Your Full Name
subscribe faq-maintainers Your Full Name
Design issues:
1) Keep them short. 200 lines or less is preferable.
If you don't recognize the irony in this like Bill Thacker says:
Farg them.
2) They will come in three basic types:
a) netiquette: how to use the net
always refer to news.announce.newusers
why? for procedure for new group creation, etc.
b) answers to informational queries.
c) Misc.
3) Provide support for version control and killfiles.
4) Break the FAQ up. Chain them. Link them. Maintain some degree of
Subject: line commonality.
5) FAQs don't stop flame wars. They don't limit free speech.
They should not limit speech.
6) Posting charters appears useful but is ultimately silly. Your call.
You can't limit speech in an unmoderated group. No enforcement, so I consider
this wasted bandwidth (bigger wastes exist). If you want low noise,
minimum flaming, to avoid mass cross-posts by broadcasting novices, make
the group MODERATED, just like editing a Journal. See comments on
appropriateness below.
7) If you can provide anonymous FTP, do so, but remember that not everyone
has this luxury. Mailer servers can also answer FAQ queries where FTP is
not available. Some stuff can be archived at rtfm.mit.edu instead of trying
to archive and make available for FTP yourself. rtfm already has
an FTP mail server set up.
Submit your FAQ to
[email protected] if you want to crosspost it
to news.answers and have it archived at rtfm.mit.edu and other
sites. Read the "*.answers submission guidelines" and the
"Introduction to the *.answers newsgroups" first.
8) You will have some interesting times maintaining them.
(my personal chuckle comes on certain wilderness intestinal dysfunctions).
9) Develop them by consensus, BUT retain editorial control subject to
things like flames and liability.
10) FAQs have other useful functions like pulsing connectivity information
like a light house.
11) Frequency. Good question, few good answers.
The naive FAQ maintainer posts once a month.
Others post by hand. Still others post weekly.
Monthly posts are frequently never seen (FNS), whereas weekly posts
will get criticism as being noise (typically by those who have not learned
the 'n key or about Killfiles.
The hand poster typically has not discovered crontab yet.
They must have presence to have an affect. Issues involve maintenance and
effect. A problem is that FAQs grow (as memory does).
If they are not posted, they are not frequent themselves.
The current method under test is the FAQ chain with sections posted once a day.
But maintain common Subject: lines if you do!
Other people clump parts and post all at once, assuming that expiration is
minimized using news group fields (doesn't work, many systems need the disk
space). Multiple FAQs with multiple maintainers exist. Some FAQs are
posted biweekly or once a month and a shorter weekly outrigger or outlier gets
posted for those times the FAQ isn't posted. Even short daily FAQs are
under test.
12) An FAQ should have no or a minimal signature line, strictly for
purposes of bounced email. Otherwise, cute things like ASCII graphics
don't have a real place (usually).
13) Organization or design: Several styles are popular.
The most popular: QAQAQAQA ... down a file. (e.g., news.announce.newusers).
The most work is: Q-summary, QAQAQA (many colorful variations).
I like the "Jeopardy" style: AAAAA... (look the questions are obvious, just
provide the answers (like references). [Optional: determine the question.])
1.1) Sizes: Several useful message sizes are worth knowing. 200 line is an
empirically determined human suggestion. UUCP has a default 100 KB
size limit. Many sites change this: we have one machine, for instance,
with a 30 KB limit. Other systems have other limits, and then there
are people's file systems [approaching 99% fullness]...
Other people keep FAQs to 1000 lines or less
(do you know how many vt100-equivalent screenfuls 1000 lines is?).
It is suggested that "GIF or ASCII graphics" be avoided. Especially
large files may require retransmission, and if problems happen,
message thrashing occurs.
Bottom line, try to keep FAQs small and manageable.
America On-Line has a 27K limit. This breaks a heck of a lot of stuff.
1.2) Not everyone has an editor which does automatic line-wrap.
Limit line lengths to 72-75 characters. Test the FAQ.
11.1) Header Expires: field: Some news systems offer a feature to keep
certain articles around longer than most news system articles. This is
optional, a system manager decides this. Even in the best instances, it does
not appear that this field helps searchability or utility. The idea being
that these articles will pull away from other expired articles does not
hold. You are welcome to use them, but article length is more important.
Using an Expires: longer than the FAQ frequence coupled with Supersedes is
a nice trick. [ sort of --enm]
Picking a good Archive-name is worthwhile -- hierarchy helps grouping.
Open issues: is the FAQ just a static file? Or is it something
which is dynamic?
Some files like netiquette files are probably fairly static.
FAQs make poor books. They should clearly be referenced. Referencing is one
of the standard argument/flame techniques on the net. FAQs aren't flame-proof.
Nor should they be. This is what makes the use of FAQs an open issue.
FAQs are voluntary things. Their evolution is based on the involvement
of the readership and the openess and time of the maintainer.
This is testable.
"Computer people are lazy."
--Kaz Ogawa
12) Why do people post "Where's the FAQ?" when it was recently posted?
Several reasons:
*)Because network connectivity is worse than most people think. News is a low
priority service and articles (including FAQs) don't reach all sites or
stay at those sites. These people are innocent.
*) Because people read articles sequentially and don't reach them in their
reading order. They don't know how to view Subject headers or search for
specific topic /FAQ/ posts. These people are innocent.
*) Because some FAQs aren't called FAQ. Nor should they have to be.
*) People don't read. These people aren't innocent.
"You see what you want to see and read what you want to read."
--Rock Man, "The Point"
Known testable reader habits:
The typical user merely reads sequentially through a post: one screen-full
at a time, doesn't jump around, doesn't search, until they get to the
end of a post and automatically page or skip to the next post. If they need
to get to the bottom, say like the last question of an FAQ, they scroll
(page) down there.
They will learn to skip and page, but they will not learn to use
Killfiles or search (much less use regular expression search).
The above paragraph holds until they learn to skip the reminder of an article:
the so-called 'n' key for 'next' article or note.
Most people will lurk (read, but not post).
Most people will skip news.announce.newusers.
Most people invoke readers on topic specific groups rather than wade through
thousands of uninteresting newsgroups.
We need to face several facts. CRTs are a poor way to read text.
They search easy (if you know how), but we ignore typos more and we scan more
than read. Many people dump FAQs (and other posts to printers).
FAQs should offer references to things like hardcopy media (e.g., books)
rather than give unreadable dissertations. It is difficult to follow a
logical argument on a computer in a strictly serial fashion. Our reading
(mostly at work) will not allow it.
It takes work to maintain an FAQ. It is advised that reader should NOT
archive copies. FAQs change and FAQs should appear frequently enough that
new versions can appear to answer questions. Readers always tend to want it
NOW. Email to the maintainer or anonymous FTP are a far better way to get it
than daily posts of the FAQ (this will happen, mark my word, that's a joke).
Inevitability, you will have an FAQ, and some clueless newbie will post
an article which the FAQ answers but they haven't seen. Don't worry.
Propagation is poorer than you think (maybe only 80% get through).
Short queries aren't a problem. Every one can post to the clueless (by
email) and say, "See the FAQ" [the FAQ-version of RTFM].
If the goal is to stop flame wars, and you wish to ignore point 5,
the best thing to do is an FAQ SUMMARY of all arguments,
challenge people to add more rational points on each side.
Then every one can point and say, "Arguments? See the FAQ. Let's move
on to other things." We lack network history/memory. The FAQ is not
perfect, but some of this works. Cash incentives are useful.
A new book by Johnson and Koop (ex-Surgeon General) is a good example of this.
Systems which use Killfiles typically only grab the first 24 characters
of a Subject: line. Any additional use of Killfiles requires extensive
editing, and not all readers these days know how to text edit.
Indices and tables of contents are helpful, but not always useful.
Most readers do not know of their capability to skip large regions of text.
This is why shorter files are more important than indexed files.
Most of our users have no idea the diversity (or lack of) in news interfaces.
The FAQ must work on the least common denominator.
Guidelines for moderation: proposing, accounting, etc.
Sci and the sci-oriented comp groups should probably mostly be moderated.
Separate open-forum groups can be created (name.d, d for discussion).
Talk groups should almost never be moderated. If free speech is an issue,
then you should make it a talk group. Rec and other groups can consider
moderation. As one more option, you can propose two groups:
the primary one moderated,
the secondary one for discussion.
You will notice quite a few groups with *.d endings (others do not:
e.g., rec.arts.movies.reviews & rec.arts.movies). A bogus free speech
argument would ask to list good moderated groups (comp.risks: selections
published hardcopy in CACM, comp.compilers: 85% of the posts published in
book form, comp.research.japan: NSF funding for two years,
rec.humor.funny is also published in hardcopy, etc.). They are out there,
and they are good.
A real problem is that few people comprehend the number of news groups.
We have people who don't know how to propose a news.group, but also
propose groups which already exist. There appears to be no way around this.
Copyright.
Face it, FAQs should not be copyrighted. Or they should be copyrighted with
the greatest of copy permissions possible. It's a public document (right?),
and if you are going to post it, you have to assume it's going to get every
where you would not want it, so ignore it. Murphy's law will hold.
Credit can be due to authors, but it's a community document.
If you want and expect strict copy control, then don't post it.
Expect others to try to make money off your FAQ by including it, or its
contents in books, CD-ROMs, etc. If you want to make money off it,
don't post it.
Students/classes and homework.
The Net can serve as a wonderful Danny Dunn Homework machine.
At this time, no guidelines exist to protect the student from getting
complete information from the Net. The Net is seen as an information resource
where some of the foremost experts of various fields communicate. That's
the ideal, in practice, it does not always work that way. If you are a teacher
or prof, you need to explicitly state the guidelines for using the Net.
If you are a student, if there is any question about using outside expertise,
then ask your teacher.
Frankly, I seriously wonder about the intelligence of posters if they
have to be told to contribute to an FAQ. This is implicit with free speech.
If an FAQ maintainer has to be forced to maintain text, that is another
matter.
Expect people to send you email consisting of nothing but your FAQ
and their .signature.
Expect broken news to mail gateways to send you bounces. Protest these
to the gateway maintainer.
It's a good idea to set Reply-To: for your FAQ to some address other than
your own. It's a good idea to set Followup-To: to a single newsgroup.
Usenet Self-Moderation Project
=====
O.B.I.T.
Outer Band Individuated Teletracer
Grover: It *watches*, saps the very spirit. And the worse thing of
all is *I* watch it. I can't *not* look. It's like a drug -- a horrible drug
You can't resist it. It's an addiction.
..
Lomax: The machines are everywhere! Oh, you'll find them all; you're a
zealous people. And you'll make a great show out of smashing a few
of them, but for every one you destroy, hundreds of others will be built,
and they'll demoralize you, break your spirit, create such rifts and
tensions in your society that no one will be able to repair them!
You're a savage, despairing planet. And when we come to live here, you
friendless, demoralized flotsam will fall without even a single shot
being fired. You're all of the same dark persuasion. You demand, *insist*
on knowing every private thought and hunger in everyone -- your families,
your neighbors, *everyone* but *yourselves!*
===== tag line =====
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 16:54:08 EDT
From:
[email protected] (Dave Hudson)
Subject: Re: FAQ on FAQs
>Systems which use Killfiles typically only grab the first 24 characters
>of a Subject: line. Any additional use of Killfiles requires extensive
>editing, and not all readers these days know how to text edit.
The easiest way to get a subject into a killfile is to let the
newsreader do it, while the kill is taking effect. If dates,
"Frequently Asked Questions", "part M of N", or other crap are at the
beginning of the subject line, this will not get into the killfile in
a way that is convenient for edits. Since the date is redundant, and
since if changes are important then they can be called out in a
"changes" edition or by use of changebars, dates ought not even be in
a FAQ's subject line.
So, if you're going to have a FAQ on FAQs, please recommend an
explicit format for subject lines, e.g.:
"{Newsgroup,Interest} {Topic,} {(Changes),(# of #),}"
David Hudson
From:
[email protected] (Peter Kaminski)
Subject: Re: [l/m 10/6/92] FAQ on FAQs n.g.FAQ
Nice document.
Some things I didn't see mentioned:
The "Supersedes:" header, so that new posts can delete old ones out
of the spool, especially for posts with "Expires:" headers.
The use of "Followup-To: poster". Sometimes the maintainer will want
questions or comments to go directly to him/her.
The structure used for the misc.kids FAQ suite: a periodically posted
index to email addresses of maintainers/distributors of the actual FAQs,
which are not posted.
Pete
From:
[email protected] (Marc G. Frank)
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Re: [l/m 10/6/92] FAQ on FAQs n.g.FAQ
In article <
[email protected]> you write:
>This is a prototype.
>FAQs are the first generation of community memory.
>13) Organization or design: Several styles are popular.
>The most popular: QAQAQAQA ... down a file. (e.g., news.announce.newusers).
>The most work is: Q-summary, QAQAQA (many colorful variations).
>I like the "Jeopardy" style: AAAAA... (look the questions are obvious, just
>provide the answers (like references). [Optional: determine the question.])
I think you ought to recommend that FAQs be posted in digest format,
since most mail- and newsreaders have commands for skipping to the next
section of a digest. IMHO, this increases the usefulness of any FAQ.
--
Marc G. Frank Vote for Kibo:
[email protected] The only candidate who knows
how to cross-post.
From
[email protected] Mon Nov 2 16:11:38 1992
Subject: Re: [l/m 10/6/92] FAQ on FAQs n.g.FAQ
From:
[email protected]
In article <
[email protected]> you write:
>This is a prototype.
Then I presume you want comments....
First, perhaps section headers (Introduction, Guidelines, etc...) would
be useful?
>2) They will come in three basic types:
> a) netiquette: how to use the net
This is a particular FAQ or two, not really a "genre" of FAQ...
> always refer to news.announce.newusers
> why? for procedure for new group creations, etc.
> b) answers to informational queries.
> c) Misc.
I'd just say that FAQs contain answers to questions (asked
or unasked :) about various topics, ranging from how to use the net,
to is homeopathy a valid form of treatment.
>13) Organization or design: Several styles are popular.
>The most popular: QAQAQAQA ... down a file. (e.g., news.announce.newusers).
>The most work is: Q-summary, QAQAQA (many colorful variations).
>I like the "Jeopardy" style: AAAAA... (look the questions are obvious, just
>provide the answers (like references). [Optional: determine the question.])
>
>1.1) Sizes: Several useful message sizes are worth knowing. 200 line is an
1.1 under 13????? Shouldn't this be 13.1?
> (do you know how many vt100-equivalent screenfuls 1000 lines is?).
> It is suggested that ASCII or GIF graphics be avoided. Especially
Avoid ASCII? What *should* we use?
(upon closer reading it is ASCII graphics to be avoided, perhaps the
phrasing "GIF or ASCII graphics" would make this a bit clearer...)
>1.2) No every one has an editor which does automatic line wrap. Limit
> line lengths to 72-75 characters. Test the FAQ.
>
>11.1) Header Expires: field: Some news systems offer a feature to keep
13)
1.1)
1.2)
11.1) ????????????
Definite renumbering called for here!!!
>Indices and table of contents are helpful, but not always useful.
>Because the ability to skip large regions of text is unknown by most readers.
>This is why shorter files are more important than indexed files.
Just because some people DON'T skip, doesn't mean we should
deprive the ones that can of the information that would be
useful for them.
At least recommend that indexes be placed in the larger files?
-Richard Hartman
[email protected]
From:
[email protected] (Stan Brown)
Subject: Re: [l/m 10/6/92] FAQ on FAQs n.g.FAQ
A suggestion if I may. I've noticed a couple of your FAQs crossposted
to news.answers, and have been much puzzled by their Subject: lines.
When I saw your post in news.groups I felt I had to write. I hope what
I have to say will be helpful.
You might want to consider putting the most inportant information
first, and the last-modified date last. My newsreader -- and I imagine
I'm far from alone in this -- cuts off the end of subject lines. For
FAQs crossposted to news.answers, that means that I don't get to see the
names of the newsgroups unless I actually select and read the articles.
My suggestion, for what it's worth, is to put the newsgroup name or
other subject at the start of the subject line, and also to avoid
cryptic abbreviations. I have no reason to think myself more stupid
than other people, but I scratched my head over "l/m" and I have no idea
what "n.g." is supposed to mean. Obviously you take some time over
preparing your articles, and I assume it's because you want to
communicate. But the things I mention get in the way.
> The syntax of the example subject line is
> made that way for Killfiles. Most Killfile systems use the
> first 24 characters of the Subject for an initial cut on what to Kill.
> This is a short coming is news software.
> It's used by Killfiles with FAQs we are avoiding. It's a crude
> mechanism, but it's the one which exists. We are in the midst of testing
> various FAQ designs with the array of news systems out there
> trying to come up with reasonable designs and VALIDATING them.
> So if you can think of better ways (untried please suggest those, too).
> L/m: last modified: human readable/rememberable version control
> n.g.: news.groups. Goes with FAQ and does not take up space. Test
> variables.
From:
[email protected] (Timo Salmi)
Subject: Re: [l/m 10/6/92] FAQ on FAQs n.g.FAQ
In article <
[email protected]> you write:
>FAQs are the first generation of community memory.
Very good. As an active FAQ writer myself I have some comments.
(Mine are the comp.binaries.ibm.pc.wanted, comp.binaries.ibm.pc.archives
Now:
115853 May 26 1998
ftp://garbo.uwasa.fi/pc/link/tsfaqn.zip
tsfaqn.zip Questions from Usenet and Timo's answers, linked
and
143222 May 26 1998
ftp://garbo.uwasa.fi/pc/link/tsfaqp.zip
tsfaqp.zip Common Turbo Pascal Questions and Timo's answers, linked
My own number one rule of FAQs. There is nothing wrong with asking
a FAQ. (How else could a FAQ become a FAQ :-).
>6) Posting charters appears useful but is ultimately silly. Your call.
>You can't limit speech in an unmoderated group. No enforcement, so I consider
>this wasted bandwidth (bigger wastes exist). If you want low noise,
>minimum flaming, to avoid mass cross-posts by broadcasting novices, make
>the group MODERATED, just like editing a Journal. See comments on
>appropriateness below.
Here I don't fully agree. If the noise level is a tolerable
UseNet average, then ok, but there are cases where the newsgroups
have virtually collapsed because of no peer pressure. In some
groups misposting rates do skyrocket. (I have recent examples in
mind, but details are beside the point). Besides one does not just
make a group moderated. As we know it is a lengthy process.
I would suggest taking a still more balanced wording of this
item. Note that mostly I agree with you, but the way it is now I
feel you are making a bit too much of a blanket statement.
(As to anarchy, I have sometimes have the feeling that especially
users from the US sometimes think that free speach is tantamout to
an unlimited ticket to anarchy).
>7) If you can provide anonymous FTP, do so, but remember that not every one
>has this luxury.
Consider mentioning mail servers.
>10) FAQs have other useful functions like pulsing connectivity information
>like a light house.
You lose me here by the show of the high-flying verbal virtuosity :-).
> Rather than accept suggestions, please rewrite a suggested section 6.
>
> 5) FAQs don't stop flame wars. They don't limit free speech.
> They should not limit speech.
>
> 6) Posting charters appears useful but is ultimately silly. Your call.
> You can't limit speech in an unmoderated group. No enforcement, so I consider
> this wasted bandwidth (bigger wastes exist). If you want low noise,
> minimum flaming, to avoid mass cross-posts by broadcasting novices, make
> the group MODERATED, just like editing a Journal. See comments on
> appropriateness below.
As you suggested I have taken a closer look at this. But I am
having grave difficulties in reformulating this in any way that
would still be compatible with your original. The reason for this
is that I now note that I clearly disagree with you on this. I
don't agree that including charters in FAQs is silly. My feeling on
this is quite the reverse.
In general, the impression that the items 5 and 6 give me as a
reader is that the US obsession with the first amendment pre-empts
limiting the newsgroups' subjects to the topics of the charters.
The concept of free speech overrides all organization and giving
such guidance. According to the above items, discussing anything in
any newsgroup should sanctioned. (That is anarchy, by definition,
as far as I understand).
My impressions and interpretation may be totally wrong, but that is
how this comes out to me. My sincere apologies that I could not be
of any real help to you after all.
If you are interested, the contents of following FAQs of mine
garbo.uwasa.fi:/pc/ts/tsfaq30.zip (general)
garbo.uwasa.fi:/pc/pd2/cbipafaq.zip (for a certain newsgroup)
may explain why I have these objections. I think that they violate
your advice for FAQ writing, perhaps even in several respects.
Yet, all the best for your FAQ advice, and my best compliments on
the work you are doing.
.................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP archives 128.214.87.1
Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa
Internet:
[email protected] Bitnet: salmi@finfun ; SF-65101, Finland
Looks like a useful document. Thanks for putting it together.
>13) Organization or design: Several styles are popular.
>The most popular: QAQAQAQA ... down a file. (e.g., news.announce.newusers).
>The most work is: Q-summary, QAQAQA (many colorful variations).
>I like the "Jeopardy" style: AAAAA... (look the questions are obvious, just
>provide the answers (like references). [Optional: determine the question.])
I like the digest format, Jeopardy style, and plan to make most of the
news.announce.newusers FAQs that way, except for the ones that were
deliberately unformatted essays. A reference to Chris Lewis' FAQ on
"FAQs: A Suggested Minimal Digest Format" (presently posted to
news.admin.misc,news.software.readers) might be in order.
For frequency, one possibility is to post a small FAQ overview frequently
(weekly?) with instructions on how to find the FAQs and the actual FAQs
less frequently.
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 1994 15:50:42 +0100
From:
[email protected]
To:
[email protected] (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: [l/m 2/9/94] FAQ on FAQs n.g.FAQ
Newsgroups: news.groups
Organization: University of Karlsruhe, Germany
Message-Id: <"nz11.rz.un.932:01.02.94.14.50.57"@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>
In news.groups, you wrote in article <
[email protected]>:
>7) If you can provide anonymous FTP, do so, but remember that not every one
>has this luxury. Mailer servers can also answer FAQ queries where FTP is
>not available. Some stuff can be archived at rtfm.mit.edu instead of trying
>to archive and make available for FTP yourself. rtfm already has
>an FTP mail server set up.
Maybe you should mentioning that you should submit it to *.answers
to get it archvied (and also for maximal propagation)... don't assume
FAQ maintainers know this, they can be just as ignorant and unable to RTFM
as anybody else. I experience this dayly, as one of the *.answers
moderators :-)
Generally, I found your article to be very useful, and amusing, to
people who have lots of net.experience; I guess it will confuse newer
people somewhat ;-)
--
