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From: [email protected] (Emily Way)
Newsgroups: alt.movies.silent,alt.answers,news.answers
Subject: alt.movies.silent Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ), part 1 of 4
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Date: 27 Jul 2000 20:01:43 GMT
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Summary: This posting describes the newsgroup alt.movies.silent and
        should be read by anyone who wants to post there.
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Archive-name: movies/silent/alt-movies-silent
Posting-Frequency: monthly
Last-modified: 2000/07/27
Version: 1.5
URL: http://www.vex.net/~emily/film/amsfaq/
Copyright: (c) 1999, 2000 Rick Levinson and Emily Way
Maintainer: Emily Way <[email protected]> and Rick Levinson <[email protected]>

FAQ about silent film: alt.movies.silent

-----------------------------------------------------------
This document is the first of four FAQs for the Usenet newsgroup
alt.movies.silent, and contains information about the newsgroup
itself. There is some overlap in the content of the FAQs. If you
don't find what you're looking for here, try one of the related
FAQs (see the last question for a complete list).

 1. What is alt.movies.silent for?
 2. Is it okay to post about talkies?
 3. Some newsgroups are really courteous. Others are
    nasty. How does the silent film newsgroup rate?
 4. Is it okay to buy, sell, and swap films on the
    newsgroup?
 5. What are the recurring in-jokes and threads?
 6. What do some of the terms and abbreviations mean?
 7. Is it okay to ask whether a certain film still exists?
 8. How do I catch up on the newsgroup if I've missed a
    couple of weeks?
 9. Where are the other silent film FAQs?

-----------------------------------------------------------

1. What is the newsgroup alt.movies.silent for?

alt.movies.silent is for people who love silent film.  There's a
fairly broad base of people in the group. Some have been collectors
and aficionados of silent film for many decades. Others discovered
silent film relatively recently. Some have a particular favourite
film star, filmmaker, or genre. Others enjoy all types of silent
film.  Some prefer late silents from the '20s. Others enjoy all
types of silent film from the turn of the century to the end of
the silent era.

The benefits of connecting with the silent film group
include:

  * learning about silent film in particular and in general
  * finding out about recent developments within the silent film
    community
  * learning about silent film festivals
  * meeting with people whose expertise of silent film in all its facets
    is unparalleled.

Whether you are new to silent film or a veteran, please feel free
to post opinions, comments, suggestions, queries, lists, arguments,
and anything else related to silent films.



2. Is it okay to post about talkies?

Occasionally there are discussions about early talkies, silent
filmmakers and performers in talkies, biopics about silent film,
and so forth. So this kind of posting is fine.



3. Some newsgroups are really courteous. Others are nasty. How
does the silent film newsgroup rate?

There are the occasional rhubarbs -- all newsgroups have them --
but generally the level of discourse tends to be civil. Obviously
we all love silent film and some of us are more knowledgeable than
others, but generally we welcome any comments, suggestions, or
opinions from anyone and everyone.

If you want to pick a fight with someone, go offline and duke it out
mano � mano. Try not to engage in a personal grudge match over the
newsgroup.

If you find yourself in a flamewar with someone on the group, try
to keep your posts limited; have your say, let someone post his or
her response, reply, and then stop there. Go to email if you want
to continue the fight.



4. Is it okay to buy, sell, and swap films on the newsgroup?

Unless you are a retailer by profession, it is illegal to sell
copyright-protected material publicly.

If you want to sell or trade your silent film cache, you can mention
it on the newsgroup, but do your actual business by email.

If you want to buy or sell silent film or silent film memorabilia,
check out the online auction site, eBay:

    http://www.ebay.com/

You must register online with eBay before you sell or bid on items.



5. What are the recurring in-jokes and threads?

There's a few perennials:

5a. Charles Ogle

Charles Ogle (1865-1940) was an actor who started with Edison in
1909. His most celebrated role is that of the Frankenstein monster
in 1910 in what is considered to be the first screen adaptation of
Mary Shelley's novel. He was a prolific character actor in silent
film.

Why is Ogle mentioned so frequently on the silent film newsgroup?
The answer is shrouded in mystery. It may be because the name "Ogle"
sounds humorous in a vague sort of way.

Jeremy Bond Shepherd <[email protected]> has shed some light on the
Ogle phenomenon on the newsgroup:

    I think it's because of Firezine's numerous Ogle
    references. He used to chime in every time a film
    was being discussed in which Ogle had even the
    smallest walkon. A most endearing habit.

The Silents Majority Web site has an Ogle page:

    http://www.mdle.com/ClassicFilms/Guest/ogle.htm

for all your Ogle needs.


5b. LONDON AFTER MIDNIGHT

LONDON AFTER MIDNIGHT is a 1927 film starring Lon Chaney and directed
by horror auteur Tod Browning. It is a lost film and it is mentioned
to torment Jon Mirsalis, a/k/a ChaneyFan.

Q. I heard that a collector has LONDON AFTER MIDNIGHT and is waiting
for its copyright to expire so he can release the film.  Is this
true?

A: Almost certainly not.

Tod Browning's LONDON AFTER MIDNIGHT (1927), starring Lon Chaney
Sr. in a dual role as a Scotland Yard inspector and as a pointy-toothed
vampire, is the most famous of lost films -- mainly because Forrest
J. Ackerman, with the aid of the film's admittedly tantalizing
stills, spent a lot of energy hyping it as a lost masterpiece in
his teen-oriented horror magazines.  The reality is that those who
saw the film as late as the 1950s, such as William K. Everson and
David Bradley, considered it well short of a masterpiece -- inferior
to Browning's talkie remake, MARK OF THE VAMPIRE (1935), with Bela
Lugosi, and not even the most desirable lost film of Chaney's
career.

The most persistent rumor about LAM is that some collector has the film and
has been waiting for the copyright to expire in 2002.  The legend probably
dates back to the early 70's, when a New England rental source named Cecil
Miller listed LAM among his upcoming titles, presumably as a gag.  (Later
versions of the same gag have included reviews of the film on the Internet
Movie Database and April Fool's discussions of showings on Turner Classic
Movies in alt.movies.silent.)  This mythical collector is in for a longer
wait now -- copyright law has been changed, making the date LAM would become
public domain 2022.  For that reason, it is likely that any such collector
who wanted to cash in during his own lifetime would have already come
forward to make a deal with the current copyright holders (Time Warner).

In fact, the odds are not high that any print ever got loose in the first
place.  According to Jon Mirsalis, MGM "was very diligent about collecting
prints after the completion of their print run, making it unlikely that a
retired projectionist has a copy hiding in his attic... The last time the
film was inspected by MGM was in 1955.  It was stored in vault 7 and a
vault fire (circa 1967) in vault 7 destroyed the last known print.  All the
MGM nitrate material was subsequently donated to Eastman House, but by then
the print and camera negative were gone."  As Bob Birchard further points
out, "MGM did a worldwide search when it decided to copy its nitrate to
safety in the 1970's," and turned up nothing.

Even so... another MGM film that vanished around the same time was
Victor Sjostrom's THE DIVINE WOMAN, with Greta Garbo.
Yet a ten-minute fragment of that film subsequently turned up in
Eastern Europe.  So the possibility that LAM will turn up in some
unexpected place cannot be ruled out completely.  Just... nearly
completely.

In the meantime, the closest you are likely ever to come to seeing
LONDON AFTER MIDNIGHT is in the pages of Philip J. Riley's
book LONDON AFTER MIDNIGHT, published by Cornwall Books in
1985 -- and by watching MARK OF THE VAMPIRE.

[Thanks to Michel Gebert for the above information on
LONDON AFTER MIDNIGHT.]


5c. GREED

GREED (1925) is famed director Erich von Stroheim's epic, based on
the Frank Norris novel McTeague.

Von Stroheim filmed Lord knows how many reels. MGM released it in
a cut version. To this day silent film aficionados will argue over
how many reels constitute the "director's cut" of the film. So it's
not uncommon for someone to say, apropos of nothing, "well, I've
seen the 72-reel version of GREED," just to start an argument and
tick others off.


5d. Roscoe "Fatty" Arbuckle

You may have heard of the famous scandal involving the death of a
young actress at a party thrown by Roscoe "Fatty" Arbuckle. Once and
for all, Arbuckle absolutely did not rape, kill, or harm anyone.

An unemployed actress named Virginia Rappe took ill during a party
held in Roscoe Arbuckle's suite at the St. Francis Hotel in San
Francisco. Arbuckle found her in his bathroon, and called for a
doctor. Four days later, Rappe died of acute peritonitis, while in a
maternity hospital. Many experts today believe she died from a botched
abortion done a short time before the party.

Another party guest, Maude Delmont, declared that Arbuckle had raped
Rappe at the party. Yellow journalistic newspapers, led by the Hearst
newspaper chain, used Delmont's story to paint Arbuckle as a murderer.
Tabloid-like banner headlines attacked Arbuckle's reputation daily
over several months.

On Delmont's statement, Arbuckle was arrested by the police for
murder. However, the state prosecution found that Delmont was an
unusable witness because of her criminal record and her being a
complusive liar. Nevertheless, pressured by the public, the
prosecution pushed forward and tried Arbuckle for the reduced charges
of manslaughter.

After two hung juries, Arbuckle was found not guilty by a third jury
in five minutes. Arbuckle's jury then made this statement to the
press:

"Acquittal is not enough for Roscoe Arbuckle. We feel that a great
injustice has been done him. We feel also that it was only our plain
duty to give him this exoneration, under the evidence, for there was
not the slightest proof adduced to connect him in any way with the
commission of a crime. He was manly throughout the case, and told a
straightforward story on the witness stand, which we all believed.

"The happening at the hotel was an unfortunate affair for which
Arbuckle, so the evidence shows, was in no way responsible. We wish
him success and hope that the American people will take the judgement
of fourteen men and women who have sat listening for thirty-one days
to the evidence, that Roscoe Arbuckle is entirely innocent and free of
all blame."

Despite this complete vindication, Arbuckle's reputation as a film
star remained in tatters. Arbuckle was effectively banned from acting
in Hollywood for a period of eleven years. Returning to the screen in
1932, Arbuckle died in 1933, immediately after celebrating his signing
of a new starring contract with Warner Brothers, and the completion of
six comedy shorts which re-established him as a comedian.

For more information, see Arbucklemania:

    http://silent-movies.com/Arbucklemania/


5e. The proper running speed of silent film

There are infrequent disputes over the proper running speed of
silent film. Please don't mention this. It's been known to cause
nervous breakdowns.

Okay; if you want the goods on the proper running speed, check out
David Pierce's peerless Silent Film Bookshelf Web site:

    http://www.cinemaweb.com/silentfilm/bookshelf/

Bob Lipton notes: "there is no 'proper' running speed for silents.
As both cameras and projectors were hand-cranked, the action running
speeds varied according to the dictates and whims of the cameramen
and projectionists.   Comedies were typically run faster than
dramas."

In his book SEDUCTIVE CINEMA: THE ART OF SILENT FILM (Knopf: New
York, 1994), James Card, the founder of the famed George Eastman
film archive housed in Rochester, New York, discusses among other
things the holy grail of the "proper" running speed for silent
film, on pp. 52-56.



6. What do some of the terms and abbreviations mean?

Here is a list of frequently used initialisms, courtesy of Jon
Mirsalis:

LOC: Library of Congress, Washington, D.C.
GEH: George Eastman House, Rochester, NY
MOMA: Museum of Modern Art, New York City
PFA: Pacific Film Archive, Berkeley, CA
UCLA: University of California-Los Angeles
FIAF: La Federation Internationale des Archives du Film
AFI: American Film Institute
BFI: British Film Institute (which isn't an archive really, but they
acquire films that are then stored at the National Film Archives in
London)
NARS: National Archives, Washington, D.C.
fps: frames per second

Jon also notes that he and others frequently refer to things being at
"Turner." This refers to Ted Turner's Turner Entertainment; however,
the company is now known as Warner Brothers Classics since Time/Warner
bought Turner Entertainment in a billion-dollar stock swap.



7. Is it okay to ask whether a certain film still exists?

Tragically, about 80% of the films of the silent era no longer
exist. Many were lost in fires because of the volatility of nitrate
film stock; some were destroyed deliberately for their silver
content; some were just allowed to decompose. It's fine to post
and ask if a film survives. Someone will get back to you on it.


8. How do I catch up on the newsgroup if I've missed a couple of weeks?

Deja.com archives Usenet postings, and Dave Garrett posted a link
to a handy interface that you can use to search Deja for what you've
missed:

    http://www.exit109.com/~jeremy/news/deja.html


9. Where are the other silent film FAQs?

There are three other FAQs for the alt.movies.silent newsgroup:

  * Online resources for silent film
  * Books and documentaries about silent film
  * Where to see silent films

The complete set of alt.movies.silent FAQs lives on Emily Way's
REEL WORLD Web site:

    http://www.vex.net/~emily/film/amsfaq/

The FAQs are also posted to alt.movies.silent, news.answers, and
alt.answers once a month. They are also archived automatically at
the following sites:

  * ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/news.answers/movies/silent/
  * http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/hypertext/faq/usenet/movies/silent/top.html
  * http://www.cs.ruu.nl/wais/html/na-dir/movies/silent/.html
  * http://www.faqs.org/faqs/movies/silent/

-----------------------------------------------------------
Rick Levinson ([email protected]) and Emily Way ([email protected])
Last updated July 27, 2000
--
Emily Way * emily at vex.net * emily at woolworks.org * emily at icomm.ca
"Over the years I've had a lot relatives with two-name first names and
 a lot of Random Violent Rural Death, usually involving trees." -B. E. Cole