From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue Feb 1 01:47:27 1994

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Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 09:34:28 GMT
From: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Subject: enhancement request
To: Pine User Group <[email protected]>
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Message-Id: <PCPine_p.3.89.9402010943.A10523-0100000@[134.225.33.95]>
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I wrote yesterday that I find myself using ^arrow keys in pico...

I also find myself using PgUp to try to get to the top of the index
screen, but Pine tells me that I am already on the first page. I think
PageUp should take you to the top of the page in this case. Again this is
fairly standard for DOS applications.

Oh and similarly for Page Down of course!

John Stumbles [email protected]
Reading University 0734 318435
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

From [email protected] Tue Feb 1 03:38:11 1994
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id <[email protected]>; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 11:21:55 +0000
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 11:22:31 +0000 (GMT)
From: Dave King <[email protected]>
Subject: Pine / PTX futures.
To: Pine Information <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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We use Pine 3.89 on DYNIX/ptx 2.0.4 with no problems.

Sequent recently told me that ptx version 4 will be released sometime in
Q1/Q2 of this year. I'm aware that ptx is a mjor Pine platform, and that
Pine runs on ptx at UW, but ...

Could someone please advise if Pine will be ported to ptx version 4 when
it is released?

Thanks,

Dave

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave King, Admin. Computing Services Manager, University of Bristol
[email protected] (JANET) [email protected] (INTERNET)

From [email protected] Tue Feb 1 06:24:12 1994
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Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 14:05:03 GMT
From: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Subject: PC Pine under Windows
To: Pine User Group <[email protected]>,
Pine Mission Control <[email protected]>
X-Sender: [email protected]
Message-Id: <PCPine_p.3.89.9402011322.A10525-0100000@[134.225.33.95]>
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If I leave PC Pine (3.89) running under MS Windows, when I return to it
after a while I get the message [IMAP connection broken in reply].

Is this a bug?

I'm not sure what's happening - the 'in reply' bit of the error messsage
is a bit confusing (in reply to what?).

John Stumbles [email protected]
University of Reading 0734 318435
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

From [email protected] Tue Feb 1 06:59:15 1994
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From: [email protected] (Jonathan Kruger)
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Subject: Problems compiling 3.89 on Ultrix 4.3 w/secure passwords
To: [email protected]
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 09:31:27 -0500 (EST)
Organization: Chesapeake Biological Laboratory
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 2807

For 3.07 someone had to hack on it to get the secure passwords to work
with IMAP, but it compiled fine.

When I type "build ult" on our DECstation 5000 with ULTRIX 4.3, I get
the following:
---------------------------
make args are "CC=cc"

Making c-client library and mtest
rm -f osdep.h
ln os_ult.h osdep.h
cc -g3 -O2 -Olimit 800 -Dconst= -c mtest.c
cpp: error /usr/include/netdb.h:67: Can't find include file
sys/bitypes.h
cpp: warning /usr/include/sys/cdefs.h:96: const redefined
*** Error code 1

Stop.

Making Imapd
cd ../c-client;make
cc -g3 -O2 -Olimit 800 -Dconst= -c mtest.c
cpp: error /usr/include/netdb.h:67: Can't find include file
sys/bitypes.h
cpp: warning /usr/include/sys/cdefs.h:96: const redefined
*** Error code 1

Stop.
*** Error code 1

Stop.

Making Pico
rm -f osdep.c
cp os_unix.c osdep.c
rm -f osdep.h
cp os_unix.h osdep.h
cc -c -Dult -DJOB_CONTROL -g attach.c
cc -c -Dult -DJOB_CONTROL -g ansi.c
cc -c -Dult -DJOB_CONTROL -g basic.c
cc -c -Dult -DJOB_CONTROL -g bind.c
cc -c -Dult -DJOB_CONTROL -g browse.c
cc -c -Dult -DJOB_CONTROL -g buffer.c
cc -c -Dult -DJOB_CONTROL -g composer.c
cc -c -Dult -DJOB_CONTROL -g display.c
cc -c -Dult -DJOB_CONTROL -g file.c
cc -c -Dult -DJOB_CONTROL -g fileio.c
cc -c -Dult -DJOB_CONTROL -g line.c
cc -c -Dult -DJOB_CONTROL -g osdep.c
cc -c -Dult -DJOB_CONTROL -g pico.c
cc -c -Dult -DJOB_CONTROL -g random.c
cc -c -Dult -DJOB_CONTROL -g region.c
cc -c -Dult -DJOB_CONTROL -g search.c
cc -c -Dult -DJOB_CONTROL -g spell.c
cc -c -Dult -DJOB_CONTROL -g tcap.c
cc -c -Dult -DJOB_CONTROL -g window.c
cc -c -Dult -DJOB_CONTROL -g word.c
ar ru libpico.a attach.o ansi.o basic.o bind.o browse.o buffer.o
composer.o display.o file.o fileio.o line.o osdep.o pico.o random.o
region.o search.o spell.o tcap.o window.o word.o
ar: Warning: creating libpico.a
ranlib libpico.a
cc -Dult -DJOB_CONTROL -g main.c libpico.a -ltermcap -lc -o pico

Making Pine.
rm -f os.h
ln -s osdep/os-ult.h os.h
/cmplhlp2.sh < pine.hlp > helptext.h
cc -DULT -g -DDEBUG -c addrbook.c
cpp: error /usr/include/netdb.h:67: Can't find include file
sys/bitypes.h
cpp: warning ./headers.h:75: const redefined
*** Error code 1

Stop.

Links to executables are in bin directory:
ldopen: cannot open bin/pine
size: cannot open bin/pine
ldopen: cannot open bin/mtest
size: cannot open bin/mtest
ldopen: cannot open bin/imapd
size: cannot open bin/imapd
text data bss dec hex
217088 36864 30432 284384 456e0 bin/pico
Done
--------------------------------------

So what's going on? Is ULTRIX 4.3 just plain not supported?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jonathan Kruger - [email protected] - Computer and Network Systems Coordinator
UMCEES/CBL, PO Box 38, Solomons, MD 20688 Phone: 410-326-7306 Fax: 410-326-7361

From [email protected] Tue Feb 1 08:39:25 1994
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Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 08:05:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Subject: re: Problems compiling 3.89 on Ultrix 4.3 w/secure passwords
To: Jonathan Kruger <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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This sounds like a problem on your system; specifically, the system C include
file /usr/include/netdb.h is attempting to include /usr/include/sys/bitypes.h
but that file does not exist.

The netdb.h on our ULTRIX system does not reference bitypes.h, and I have no
idea what bitypes.h might be. I looked on some of our other systems, and I
could not find bitypes.h there either.

At this point, I am inclined to say that the problem is a faulty installation
of the C compiler on your system.

From [email protected] Tue Feb 1 09:05:43 1994
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Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 08:39:08 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: enhancement request
To: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine User Group <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <PCPine_p.3.89.9402010943.A10523-0100000@[134.225.33.95]>
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This is on the to-do list for one of the next few releases. Thanks for
the suggestion!

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Tue, 1 Feb 1994, John Stumbles wrote:

> I wrote yesterday that I find myself using ^arrow keys in pico...
>
> I also find myself using PgUp to try to get to the top of the index
> screen, but Pine tells me that I am already on the first page. I think
> PageUp should take you to the top of the page in this case. Again this is
> fairly standard for DOS applications.
>
> Oh and similarly for Page Down of course!
>
> John Stumbles [email protected]
> Reading University 0734 318435
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>

From [email protected] Tue Feb 1 09:47:41 1994
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Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 17:15:49 GMT
From: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: enhancement request
To: David L Miller <[email protected]>,
Pine User Group <[email protected]>
X-Sender: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <PCPine_p.3.89.9402011728.A10525-0100000@[134.225.33.95]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Tue, 1 Feb 1994, David L Miller wrote:

> On Tue, 1 Feb 1994, John Stumbles wrote:
>
> > I wrote yesterday that I find myself using ^arrow keys in pico...
> > I also find myself using PgUp to try to get to the top of the index ..
> > Oh and similarly for Page Down of course!
>
> This is on the to-do list for one of the next few releases. Thanks for
> the suggestion!

Thanks, David - I find Pico VERY useful as a stand-alone editor for
installation scripts etc. One other feature I'd like to see is a
write-to-file operation (reverse of ^R). It would be useful in Pine for
folks to make/modify/maintain their signature files (I just modified mine
today and had to go out of Pine to do so - if I'd been able to mark the
block and write it out I wouldn't have had to).

John Stumbles [email protected]
University of Reading 0734 318435
Whiteknights, Reading, UK
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

From [email protected] Tue Feb 1 09:54:07 1994
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From: [email protected] (Jonathan Kruger)
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: ULTRIX install problem
To: [email protected]
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 12:04:10 -0500 (EST)
Organization: Chesapeake Biological Laboratory
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 303

It's a local problem, nevermind. Curse ULTRIX, curse DEC, argh.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jonathan Kruger - [email protected] - Computer and Network Systems Coordinator
UMCEES/CBL, PO Box 38, Solomons, MD 20688 Phone: 410-326-7306 Fax: 410-326-7361

From [email protected] Tue Feb 1 11:26:03 1994
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Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 18:02:03 +0000 (GMT)
From: The PenMaster <[email protected]>
Subject: Pine getting address wrong
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9402011712.A1276-0100000@teaching6>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Greetings,
I'm new to this maling list, but I have I problem that I thought
that maybe someone could solve for me. Sorry if its been covered before.

My e-mail address is [email protected], but there
are a quite a few places from which people have tried sending me mail,
but have had it bounce due to `unknown domain', etc. I could live with
that problem, because I have discovered that if I use my address as
edwards%[email protected], then it works from everywhere.

I used to use Elm as my mailer, and this was fine because it got
my return address, etc. correct, but I have now switched to Pine 3.89,
and am experiencing problems. Pine uses the first form of my address.

I have tried setting the user-domain=%[email protected],
but Pine puts a `@' inbetween the username and the domain when I post
something locally (eg I input `user' and Pine completes it to
`user@%[email protected]'.

Has anyone got any idea how I could solve this? I don't know what
it is putting in any of the Reply-To: headers or anything. Would it help
if I mailed someone so that they could look to see what it is doing?
Perhaps the next version of pine could have a variable that we can set
which specifies the complete e-mail address of the user, so that it can
be sent up manually if neccessary.

Anyway, I would be very grateful if someone could help.

Charuuba!

David Edwards
_ _
==========////====================================================
/ //// David Edwards: Welcome to the real world... \
|| _ _ //// send mail to: ||
|| \\\\ //// edwards%[email protected] ||
\ \\\X/// or [email protected] /
====\XXX/=========================================================

From [email protected] Tue Feb 1 13:14:15 1994
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Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 20:45:47 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: logging mailbox access
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected], [email protected]
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9402012053.A18595-0100000@osprey>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
From: Laurie Cuthbert <[email protected]>
X-Original-Sender: laurie

Now that we have moved student email in the department away from pop to
imap-based mailers (mainly pine) we would like to be able to log when
they have accessed the mailbox. This is purely so we can see which
students have NOT read their mail for some time as it may be a warning
that they are having some sort of problems and maybe dropping out - early
warning can often solve the problem.

With pop we could do that by checking the date stamp on the lock file but
there seems no obvious way with imapd. Have I missed something (obvious) ?

Regards

Laurie Cuthbert

From [email protected] Tue Feb 1 13:30:49 1994
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Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:04:51 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine getting address wrong
To: The PenMaster <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9402011712.A1276-0100000@teaching6>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

David,

The next version of Pine will support the Reply-To: header and possibly a
mechanism to modify the From: header. Thanks for the request!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Tue, 1 Feb 1994, The PenMaster wrote:

>
> Greetings,
> I'm new to this maling list, but I have I problem that I thought
> that maybe someone could solve for me. Sorry if its been covered before.
>
> My e-mail address is [email protected], but there
> are a quite a few places from which people have tried sending me mail,
> but have had it bounce due to `unknown domain', etc. I could live with
> that problem, because I have discovered that if I use my address as
> edwards%[email protected], then it works from everywhere.
>
> I used to use Elm as my mailer, and this was fine because it got
> my return address, etc. correct, but I have now switched to Pine 3.89,
> and am experiencing problems. Pine uses the first form of my address.
>
> I have tried setting the user-domain=%[email protected],
> but Pine puts a `@' inbetween the username and the domain when I post
> something locally (eg I input `user' and Pine completes it to
> `user@%[email protected]'.
>
> Has anyone got any idea how I could solve this? I don't know what
> it is putting in any of the Reply-To: headers or anything. Would it help
> if I mailed someone so that they could look to see what it is doing?
> Perhaps the next version of pine could have a variable that we can set
> which specifies the complete e-mail address of the user, so that it can
> be sent up manually if neccessary.
>
> Anyway, I would be very grateful if someone could help.
>
> Charuuba!
>
> David Edwards
> _ _
> ==========////====================================================
> / //// David Edwards: Welcome to the real world... \
> || _ _ //// send mail to: ||
> || \\\\ //// edwards%[email protected] ||
> \ \\\X/// or [email protected] /
> ====\XXX/=========================================================
>

From [email protected] Tue Feb 1 13:58:52 1994
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Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:24:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Subject: re: logging mailbox access
To: Laurie Cuthbert <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9402012053.A18595-0100000@osprey>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

On Tue, 1 Feb 1994 20:45:47 +0000 (GMT), Laurie Cuthbert wrote:
> Now that we have moved student email in the department away from pop to
> imap-based mailers (mainly pine) we would like to be able to log when
> they have accessed the mailbox. This is purely so we can see which
> students have NOT read their mail for some time as it may be a warning
> that they are having some sort of problems and maybe dropping out - early
> warning can often solve the problem.
>
> With pop we could do that by checking the date stamp on the lock file but
> there seems no obvious way with imapd. Have I missed something (obvious) ?

Since you're just interested in last access and not in any access telemetry,
have you considered using the file access time?

Another possibility is to modify the server_login() routine in imap/c-
client/os_???.c to write a timestamp of your choosing; that way, you'll be
able to discriminate inactive users specifically.

From [email protected] Tue Feb 1 15:46:54 1994
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Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 23:26:17 +0000 (GMT)
From: Barry Landy <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine getting address wrong
To: The PenMaster <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9402011712.A1276-0100000@teaching6>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Without checking, I suspect you are hitting a UK problem here. I suspect
that teaching.physics.ox.ac.uk is not registered in the NRS as a mail
domain, but is registered in the DNS. This will have the effect that
anyone that mails to you directly using smtp will get the mail through;
any mail that goes through "official gateways" will not.
The Reply-To: feature that is promised for later versions will "cure" the
problem; alternatively, registering the teaching. etc in the NRS for
mail (though oxford might have other objections to this).

On the assumption that physics.ox is properly registered (and that you
have a suitable mailbox there) you could get PINE to specify your mail
address as [email protected] (and indeed you could leave your
INBOX there as well).

On Tue, 1 Feb 1994, The PenMaster wrote:

>
> Greetings,
> I'm new to this maling list, but I have I problem that I thought
> that maybe someone could solve for me. Sorry if its been covered before.
>
> My e-mail address is [email protected], but there
> are a quite a few places from which people have tried sending me mail,
> but have had it bounce due to `unknown domain', etc. I could live with
> that problem, because I have discovered that if I use my address as
> edwards%[email protected], then it works from everywhere.
>
> I used to use Elm as my mailer, and this was fine because it got
> my return address, etc. correct, but I have now switched to Pine 3.89,
> and am experiencing problems. Pine uses the first form of my address.
>
> I have tried setting the user-domain=%[email protected],
> but Pine puts a `@' inbetween the username and the domain when I post
> something locally (eg I input `user' and Pine completes it to
> `user@%[email protected]'.
>
> Has anyone got any idea how I could solve this? I don't know what
> it is putting in any of the Reply-To: headers or anything. Would it help
> if I mailed someone so that they could look to see what it is doing?
> Perhaps the next version of pine could have a variable that we can set
> which specifies the complete e-mail address of the user, so that it can
> be sent up manually if neccessary.
>
> Anyway, I would be very grateful if someone could help.
>
> Charuuba!
>
> David Edwards
> _ _
> ==========////====================================================
> / //// David Edwards: Welcome to the real world... \
> || _ _ //// send mail to: ||
> || \\\\ //// edwards%[email protected] ||
> \ \\\X/// or [email protected] /
> ====\XXX/=========================================================
>
>
>

=======================================================================
Barry Landy, Head of Systems and Development,
University of Cambridge Computing Service
[email protected] 0223-334713 +44-223-334713

From [email protected] Tue Feb 1 23:29:55 1994
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Date: Wed, 2 Feb 1994 08:47:52 +0200
From: Kari Sutela <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: logging mailbox access
To: Laurie Cuthbert <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9402012053.A18595-0100000@osprey>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Tue, 1 Feb 1994, Laurie Cuthbert wrote:

> With pop we could do that by checking the date stamp on the lock file but
> there seems no obvious way with imapd. Have I missed something (obvious) ?

Just check the access time on their mailbox file (for example, "ls -lu
/var/spool/mail/user" if your mailboxes are located in /var/spool/mail).
This is what finger does.

/KS

From [email protected] Wed Feb 2 01:22:18 1994
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From: Programmer x 21323 <[email protected]>
Subject:
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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subscribe [email protected]

From [email protected] Wed Feb 2 01:38:54 1994
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Wed, 2 Feb 94 09:18:56 GMT
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 1994 09:18:53 +0000 (GMT)
From: Neil J Long <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine getting address wrong
To: Barry Landy <[email protected]>
Cc: The PenMaster <[email protected]>,
[email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

HI
It is a major headache for us all - the only way around it is to edit the
sendmail.cf to force it to use %[email protected] when it generates a
from: address

AND
^^^
modify the pine send.c (?) to prevent pine generating a from: line.
(There are 2 sections of code which have to be def'd out).

The sendmail.cf mods are needed for all mailers unless the machine is
registered outside the .ox.ac.uk domain. The pine mods are to prevent
pine generating a valid from: line which passes straight through sendmail
rules.

I have done this for SGI's and HP's here in materials and can offer
limited advice.

Many people have switched back to using elm and PC/Mac Eudora until Pine
comes up with a Reply-To: option.

Come on guys, hurry, hurry with the next release - just joking!!

__________________________________________________
Dr Neil J Long phone: +44 (0) 865 273656
University of Oxford FAX: +44 (0) 865 273789
Department of Materials
__________________________________________________

From [email protected] Wed Feb 2 01:40:31 1994
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Date: Wed, 2 Feb 1994 09:18:23 GMT
From: Laurie Cuthbert <[email protected]>
Subject: re: logging mailbox access
To: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Cc: Laurie Cuthbert <[email protected]>, [email protected],
[email protected], [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Priority: Normal
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Mark

Thanks for the response.

I should have explained in the original message that delivering mail with smail, the
access time appears to be updated when mail is delivered as well as retrieved, so
we can't use that.

I was hoping for any easy switch to cause to imapd to write info to syslog but we'll
now have to investigate server_login().

Thanks

Laurie

On Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:24:02 -0800 (PST) Mark Crispin wrote:

> From: Mark Crispin
> Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:24:02 -0800 (PST)
> Subject: re: logging mailbox access
> To: Laurie Cuthbert <[email protected]>
> Cc: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
>
> On Tue, 1 Feb 1994 20:45:47 +0000 (GMT), Laurie Cuthbert wrote:
> > Now that we have moved student email in the department away from pop to
> > imap-based mailers (mainly pine) we would like to be able to log when
> > they have accessed the mailbox. This is purely so we can see which
> > students have NOT read their mail for some time as it may be a warning
> > that they are having some sort of problems and maybe dropping out - early
> > warning can often solve the problem.
> >
> > With pop we could do that by checking the date stamp on the lock file but
> > there seems no obvious way with imapd. Have I missed something (obvious) ?
>
> Since you're just interested in last access and not in any access telemetry,
> have you considered using the file access time?
>
> Another possibility is to modify the server_login() routine in imap/c-
> client/os_???.c to write a timestamp of your choosing; that way, you'll be
> able to discriminate inactive users specifically.
>

From [email protected] Wed Feb 2 02:01:58 1994
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From: "Programmer x 21323" <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <560747*@su-kom.dsv.su.se>
To: "Pine mailer discussions group (pine-infoEcac.washington.edu)" <[email protected]>,
Pine User Group <[email protected]>

From [email protected] Wed Feb 2 02:14:10 1994
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id <[email protected]>; Wed, 2 Feb 1994 09:50:44 +0000
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 1994 09:48:35 GMT
From: Barry Landy <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Barry Landy <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine getting address wrong
To: The PenMaster <@ox.ac.uk:[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
X-Sender: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9402011712.A1276-0100000@teaching6>
Message-Id: <PCPine_p.3.89.9402020903.D6330-0100000-0100000@[131.111.10.53]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

We have checked and found a number of problems with mail registration at
Oxford (ox.ac.uk) which we are communicating directly with postmaster and
hostmaster at Oxford.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry Landy Computer Laboratory:+44 223 334600
Head of Systems and Development Direct line: +44 223 334713
University of Cambridge Computing Service
New Museums Site Email:[email protected]
Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QG

From [email protected] Wed Feb 2 03:53:45 1994
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(Smail-3.1.28.1 #115) id m0pRfq1-000BzEC; Wed, 2 Feb 94 11:33 GMT
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 1994 11:33:09 +0000 (GMT)
From: Philip Hazel <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine getting address wrong
To: Neil J Long <[email protected]>
Cc: Barry Landy <[email protected]>,
The PenMaster <[email protected]>,
[email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Length: 439

> It is a major headache for us all - the only way around it is to edit the
> sendmail.cf to force it to use %[email protected] when it generates a
> from: address

Pity, since the % form of source routing is deprecated in the Internet.

--
Philip Hazel University Computing Service,
[email protected] New Museums Site, Cambridge CB2 3QG,
[email protected] England. Phone: +44 223 334714

From [email protected] Wed Feb 2 05:05:48 1994
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Wed, 2 Feb 94 12:31:59 GMT
From: long%[email protected] (Neil J Long)
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 1994 12:31:57 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Re: Pine getting address wrong (fwd)
To: [email protected]
Cc: The PenMaster <[email protected]>,
[email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Sorry,
I used an unhacked version of pine by mistake. This should have the %
kludge in the from: line

Neil

From [email protected] Wed Feb 2 05:27:16 1994
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id <[email protected]>; Wed, 2 Feb 1994 13:05:00 +0000
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Date: Wed, 2 Feb 1994 13:04:42 +0000 (GMT)
From: The PenMaster <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine getting address wrong (fwd)
To: Neil J Long <long%[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9402021331.A3906-0100000@teaching6>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Is there any chance you can tell me exactly what I need to change to
get my address working? Perhaps you could send me the relevent pieces of
hacked source code/sendmail.cf files.

If you could, I'd be very grateful...

Charuuba!

David

_ _
==========////====================================================
/ //// David Edwards: Welcome to the real world... \
|| _ _ //// send mail to: ||
|| \\\\ //// edwards%[email protected] ||
\ \\\X/// or [email protected] /
====\XXX/=========================================================

From [email protected] Wed Feb 2 06:16:52 1994
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id <[email protected]>; Wed, 2 Feb 1994 13:56:51 +0000
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 1994 13:57:27 +0000 (GMT)
From: Dave King <[email protected]>
Subject: Tenex format
To: Pine Information <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Can anyone help with these questions?:

1. It's easy to get Pine's INBOX into tenex format by touch(ing) mail.TxT,
but is there an easy way to reverse the process?

2. Is there a technical description of the tenex format so that I can
incorporate tenex support in a program I've written (specifically how
to determine the start and end of a message, and its status: New, Old,
or Unread).

I'd like to make use of tenex but am wary about going up a one way street!

Thanks in advance,

Dave

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave King, Admin. Computing Services Manager, University of Bristol
[email protected] (JANET) [email protected] (INTERNET)

From [email protected] Wed Feb 2 09:42:27 1994
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Date: Wed, 2 Feb 1994 09:02:59 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Tenex format
To: Dave King <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Information <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

No, there is not currently a painless way to reverse the process. A
simple copier program would be pretty trivial using c-client, but none of
us have gotten around to writing it. I did talk to someone a few weeks
ago who was going to write such a beast, but have not heard anything in a
while.

The Pine Technical Notes include a description of the Tenex format. The
easiest way to add Tenex support to your app would be to call the
appropriate c-client routines. You might also want to wait for the Unix
MTX driver. This is almost identical to Tenex format, but is binary
compatible with the MTX format used in PC-Pine.

Thanks for the request!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Wed, 2 Feb 1994, Dave King wrote:

> Can anyone help with these questions?:
>
> 1. It's easy to get Pine's INBOX into tenex format by touch(ing) mail.TxT,
> but is there an easy way to reverse the process?
>
> 2. Is there a technical description of the tenex format so that I can
> incorporate tenex support in a program I've written (specifically how
> to determine the start and end of a message, and its status: New, Old,
> or Unread).
>
> I'd like to make use of tenex but am wary about going up a one way street!
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
>
> Dave
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Dave King, Admin. Computing Services Manager, University of Bristol
> [email protected] (JANET) [email protected] (INTERNET)
>

From [email protected] Wed Feb 2 09:58:19 1994
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From: Matt Simmons <[email protected]>
Subject: Pine is greedy
To: Pine Mailing List <[email protected]>
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When you exit pine, it seems to suck up all of the keystrokes from the
time you hit expunge-yes until the prompt returns... Is there any way for
pine to not suck up these keystrokes, so I can start typing the next
command while it is exitting? I've noticed this problem with other
(SunOS 4.1.something) programs... Is it a general UNIXism?

Devoted _n______________________________________________ _________________
Teri / \|[]|"" \ |[]| |[]| |[]| |[]| / || \ |[]| |[]|
Polo ,(_____| |()_()\___| |___| |___| |___| |___/ || \___| |___| |
Fan <_______|__|_(_)_____|__|___|__|___|__|___|__|______||______|__|___|__|
=========\ Walt Disney World Monorail System ||
LCA _____\________________________________________________||_________________
__/ This highway's in perfect shape. Quick! Thank god I'm not a
_/ Break it so we can 'fix' it! -- IDOT Motto F. I. P. =)

From [email protected] Thu Feb 3 00:57:03 1994
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Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 10:42:26 +0200
From: Kari Sutela <[email protected]>
Subject: 8-bit characters in the header.
To: Pine mailing list <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
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I know this can be controversial, but I'd like the option of using 8-bit
characters (we use ISO 8859-1, here) in the header part of the message.=20
Our users are especially concerned because they can't use 8-bit characters
in the Subject field (=E4 and =F6 are very common letters in Finnish).=20

Could this option be included in a future version of Pine? Perhaps as a
compile time option (-DALLOW_8BIT_IN_HEADER_ENTRY)? Perhaps the header
fields where 8-bit chars are found could be quoted-printable-encoded?=20
Please. I know this would break some rules but our users would be very
delighted.=20

/KS

From [email protected] Thu Feb 3 09:22:52 1994
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Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 08:40:00 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: 8-bit characters in the header.
To: Kari Sutela <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine mailing list <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

Actually it's not that controversial, RFC1522 defines a way to represent
non-ASCII characters in headers. Pine will support this eventually, but
probably not in the next release.

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Thu, 3 Feb 1994, Kari Sutela wrote:

>=20
> I know this can be controversial, but I'd like the option of using 8-bit
> characters (we use ISO 8859-1, here) in the header part of the message.=
=20
> Our users are especially concerned because they can't use 8-bit character=
s
> in the Subject field (=E4 and =F6 are very common letters in Finnish).=20
>=20
> Could this option be included in a future version of Pine? Perhaps as a
> compile time option (-DALLOW_8BIT_IN_HEADER_ENTRY)? Perhaps the header
> fields where 8-bit chars are found could be quoted-printable-encoded?=20
> Please. I know this would break some rules but our users would be very
> delighted.=20
>=20
> /KS

From [email protected] Thu Feb 3 10:58:13 1994
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Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 18:07:48 +0000 (GMT)
From: "A. Hilborne" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Suggestions
To: "Gregory J. Atchity" <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9402031713.A18770-0100000@scawdell>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Thu, 27 Jan 1994, Gregory J. Atchity wrote:

> I just joined this group a week ago, and I see a lot of suggestions,
> so I guess they are welcomed by the designers. I'll put my two cents
> in, let me know if you want any more of my money.
>
> First, I'd rather see the number of lines in a message in the index
> instead of the number of characters it has. I don't receive that much
> mime, and so lines is a bit more useful to me. Perhaps that should be an
> option.
>
> Second, why does the 'To:' line require commas between members of a
> list? I don't know much about mail programs, but I thought all addresses
> had to be one word, and so I'd like to see Pine parse each word regardless
> of whether it has a comma after it or not, and insert the commas for me if
> I forget. This sounds do-able to me, even if aliases can be multi-word.

This message is a good example of how Pine has moved far away from it's
principle original design goal--KISS or, "Keep it simple, stupid."

The kinds of things Gregory would like to see are options in Mush, VM (almost
certainly) and probably several other mailers designed for power users.

I started using Pine because it was a solid mailer which did 70 percent of what
I wanted to do and did much of it well. Yes, only 70 percent. I always wanted
a score or so "enhancements." However I knew that the sum total of all the
different enhancements which Pine users the world over wanted numbered a few
hundred.

I was happy to stick with a simple mailer because it could be used adequately
not only by me, but by all users of many different levels of understanding and
ability. For the same reason our Computing Service here was happy to offer
Pine as our standard UNIX mailer. We wanted to have something that was simple
to use, required no user configuration and which (one of early Pine's proud
boasts) didn't need paper documentation because it was so small. Use of IMAP
and MIME were additional advantages which could simplify and enhance our mail
setup here but they were secondary.

Now creeping featurism threatens to swallow Pine whole. The present
configuration file is a nightmare in some areas, and it continually grows. One
may see some of the problems by the number of exchanges on this list which go:

Q. Why doesn't pine do "this?"

A (several times.) Just put "option77=blah" in your .pinerc file.

Pine is now complicated.

Don't misunderstand me. There are some wonderful parts of Pine. Pico is
pretty good and so are the supplied IMAP daemon and the c-client. Indeed it is
because of these, Pine's solid base, that there is such a demand for Pine to do
even more. I don't like this idea (although all my wished-for extra features
still aren't implemented :-) Equally to the point I know that there are a lot
of people who are unhappy at Pine's current development.

I'm afraid that I don't have a definitive solution, but I will offer one
suggestion:

Pine should be frozen at it's current state of development, or preferably a
couple of states back, where the config file was simpler and there were no
stubs for "coming" features visible to the user.

This version of Pine can either retain the name, or become, say, "Pinelet."
Perhaps someone out there can think of a suitable diminutive name. The
version we have now can then move on until it suits all us power users out
here. Only bug fixes would be back-grafted onto Pinelet.

What do you think?

--
Andrew M. Hilborne [email protected]
Computing Service Tel: +44 91 222 8226 (direct)
University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK. +44 91 222 8039 (Comp Service office)

From [email protected] Thu Feb 3 13:14:24 1994
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Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 20:43:05 +0000 (GMT)
From: Barry Landy <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Suggestions
To: "A. Hilborne" <[email protected]>
Cc: "Gregory J. Atchity" <[email protected]>,
[email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9402031713.A18770-0100000@scawdell>
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(I have edited the commented original as it is getting v long).

I agree strongly with the KISS aim, though I dont arrive at the same
conclusion as Andrew, probably because my simple users still find it
simple.
My replies thus reflect that principle.

On Thu, 3 Feb 1994, A. Hilborne wrote:

> On Thu, 27 Jan 1994, Gregory J. Atchity wrote:
> > First, I'd rather see the number of lines in a message in the index
> > instead of the number of characters it has.
> >
KISS says "please give the users information they understand; a 'random'
large number tells them nothing (and since the count includes data in
headers, it really *is* random). I personally see no reason for any data
of this type, but if there has to be, line count sounds sensible to me
(if well defined).

> > Second, why does the 'To:' line require commas between members of a
> > list? I don't know much about mail programs, but I thought all addresses
> > had to be one word, and so I'd like to see Pine parse each word regardless
> > of whether it has a comma after it or not, and insert the commas for me if
> > I forget. This sounds do-able to me, even if aliases can be multi-word.
>
This one I cannot agree with; permitting implied separators causes chaos.
Separation by commas is well understood even in plain English (apples,
oranges, and pears).

> This message is a good example of how Pine has moved far away from it's
> principle original design goal--KISS or, "Keep it simple, stupid."
Lots omitted here............

> Pine should be frozen at it's current state of development, or preferably a
> couple of states back, where the config file was simpler and there were no
> stubs for "coming" features visible to the user.
>
> This version of Pine can either retain the name, or become, say, "Pinelet."
> Perhaps someone out there can think of a suitable diminutive name. The
> version we have now can then move on until it suits all us power users out
> here. Only bug fixes would be back-grafted onto Pinelet.
>
> What do you think?
Knowing that a lot of the coming features have been asked for by our
users, especially features to make asynch use much more efficient (eg
phone use) I cannot support this. I think the critical thing is to keep
the simple subset clear (and simple!).

=======================================================================
Barry Landy, Head of Systems and Development,
University of Cambridge Computing Service
[email protected] 0223-334713 +44-223-334713

From [email protected] Thu Feb 3 13:15:14 1994
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Date: Fri, 4 Feb 1994 07:15:41 +1100 (EST)
From: Jack Churchill <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Suggestions
To: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9402031713.A18770-0100000@scawdell>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Thu, 3 Feb 1994, A. Hilborne wrote:

> I started using Pine because it was a solid mailer which did 70 percent of what
> I wanted to do and did much of it well. Yes, only 70 percent. I always wanted
> a score or so "enhancements." However I knew that the sum total of all the
> different enhancements which Pine users the world over wanted numbered a few
> hundred.

Same here.

> I was happy to stick with a simple mailer because it could be used adequately
> not only by me, but by all users of many different levels of understanding and
> ability. For the same reason our Computing Service here was happy to offer
> Pine as our standard UNIX mailer. We wanted to have something that was simple
> to use, required no user configuration and which (one of early Pine's proud
> boasts) didn't need paper documentation because it was so small. Use of IMAP
> and MIME were additional advantages which could simplify and enhance our mail
> setup here but they were secondary.

Same here.

> Now creeping featurism threatens to swallow Pine whole. The present
> configuration file is a nightmare in some areas, and it continually grows. One
> may see some of the problems by the number of exchanges on this list which go:
>
> Q. Why doesn't pine do "this?"
>
> A (several times.) Just put "option77=blah" in your .pinerc file.
>
> Pine is now complicated.

> I'm afraid that I don't have a definitive solution, but I will offer one
> suggestion:
>
> Pine should be frozen at it's current state of development, or preferably a
> couple of states back, where the config file was simpler and there were no
> stubs for "coming" features visible to the user.

How about a menu-driven configuration built into pine with documentation
to explain what the various options mean. To add spice have special
options in the global config file to stop users modifying their own
configs. More work I know but it would make pine configuration much
simpler for the users.

Jack N. Churchill | [email protected]
CSIRO Division of Exploration and Mining | [email protected]
PO Box 136 North Ryde NSW 2113 | Phone: +61 2 887 8884
Australia | Fax: +61 2 887 8921

From [email protected] Thu Feb 3 13:46:39 1994
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Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 22:14:54 +0100 (MET)
From: Michael Wolf <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Michael Wolf <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Suggestions
To: "A. Hilborne" <[email protected]>
Cc: "Gregory J. Atchity" <[email protected]>,
[email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9402031713.A18770-0100000@scawdell>
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On Thu, 3 Feb 1994, A. Hilborne wrote:

>
> Pine is now complicated.
>
> Don't misunderstand me.There are some wonderful parts of Pine. Pico is
> pretty good and so are the supplied IMAP daemon and the c-client.Indeed it is
> because of these, Pine's solid base, that there is such a demand for Pine to do
> even more.I don't like this idea (although all my wished-for extra features
> still aren't implemented :-)Equally to the point I know that there are a lot
> of people who are unhappy at Pine's current development.
>
> I'm afraid that I don't have a definitive solution, but I will offer one
> suggestion:
>
> Pine should be frozen at it's current state of development, or preferably a
> couple of states back, where the config file was simpler and there were no
> stubs for "coming" features visible to the user.
>
> This version of Pine can either retain the name, or become, say, "Pinelet."
> Perhaps someone out there can think of a suitable diminutive name. The
> version we have now can then move on until it suits all us power users out
> here. Only bug fixes would be back-grafted onto Pinelet.
>
> What do you think?
>
> --
> Andrew M. Hilborne [email protected]
> Computing Service Tel: +44 91 222 8226 (direct)
> University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK. +44 91 222 8039 (Comp Service office)
>

I am new to this list, I use pine now instead of elm since several weeks
and I like it. In order to satisfy both "normal" users and power users I
would prefer to have a "User Level" command with options "beginner" and
"advanced" and in addition, to have the possibility to generate .pinerc
through a dialog.

Michael Wolf | email:
Dept of Mechanical and Automotive Engineering | [email protected]
Fachhochschule Muenchen University |

From [email protected] Thu Feb 3 14:37:01 1994
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Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 21:16:30 GMT
From: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Reply-To: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Suggestions
To: "A. Hilborne" <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
X-Sender: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9402031713.A18770-0100000@scawdell>
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On Thu, 3 Feb 1994, A. Hilborne wrote:

[...in reply to a suggested enhancement...]

> I started using Pine because it was a solid mailer which did 70 percent o=
f what
> I wanted to do and did much of it well.=20
[...]
> Now creeping featurism threatens to swallow Pine whole. The present
> configuration file is a nightmare in some areas, and it continually grows=
=20
[...]
> What do you think?

Firstly pardon the severe edits - I'd done a more thorough job on this
reply and just got to the end, reformatted the last paragraph, and ... got
an error message about failing to allocate 144 bytes or something. Pine
could have snipped 144 chars from my message, I wouldn't have cared so
much - instead it just hung there 'till I gave the PC the 3-finger salute
and then I lost the lot :-(

Anyway, I quite agree with you about the config file - it is a nightmare!
- but I'd like to separate it from the other sort of enhancement request
you were actually replying to which was about "when a user does
<such-and-such action which users do> can Pine be made to treat it as a
correct thing to do instead of spitting it out as an error". The example
was separating mail aliases by commas or spaces - other examples are
showing end-of-file messages when the end has been displayed instead of
when the user tries to page down, and the action of various PC cursor
keys. These sorts of enhancements do not require extra menu options or
setting in the config file, and can make Pine more instinctively natural
to use - user friendly - which I believe is the pine philosophy and A Good
Thing!=20

Anyway the *%=9C"@#! config file - I suggest:

(1) most straightforward options should be settable by the (promised)=20
Setup/Options screen, so the casual user should never have to edit their=20
pinerc or (PC) PINERC file

(2) Pine should come 'out of the box' with a simple config file that can=20
be set by the Options function, and this file can either be expanded by=20
the user adding options manually, or by the user setting an=20
'intermediate' or 'advanced' user setting - in some way that the casual=20
user cannot do accidentally. Maybe by running pine from the command line=20
with some flag like:
=09PINE user_options=3Dintermediate [or advanced]
whereupon it would read the current config file and write out a new one=20
with extra bells and whistles.

(3) documentation! At present there is nothing between the 2-page Readme
file and the 180K tech notes (in some wierd MAN-page type of format) which
has to be FTPed over separateley. I suggest pine should come with some
intermediate level documentation which should explain what you can
configure, and give examples in more detail than in the config file
(indeed why have any in the config file - particularly in the PC version
where RAM is precious - if you can have decent documentation with it?) The
point is if you've got documentation you don't have to read it - and the
casual user won't - but if you haven't got it you can't!=20

(?) actually I think there could be a case for having two config files -
particularly in PC-PINE - one for the user's name, login id etc (which
the user could muck about with) and another for system-type settings (like
inbox-path=3D{imaphost.domain}inbox etc which are easier to screw up and
the casual user unlikely to need to deal with).

John Stumbles [email protected]=
uk
University of Reading 0734 318=
435
Whiteknights, Reading, UK
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+

From [email protected] Thu Feb 3 14:38:10 1994
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id <[email protected]>; Thu, 3 Feb 1994 21:32:06 +0000
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 21:32:03 +0000 (GMT)
From: Mike Roch <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Mike Roch <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Suggestions
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9402031713.A18770-0100000@scawdell>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.88.9402032056.A19711-0100000@suma3>
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On Thu, 3 Feb 1994, A. Hilborne wrote:

> ability. For the same reason our Computing Service here was happy to offer
> Pine as our standard UNIX mailer. We wanted to have something that was simple
> to use, required no user configuration and which (one of early Pine's proud
> boasts) didn't need paper documentation because it was so small. Use of IMAP
> and MIME were additional advantages which could simplify and enhance our mail
> setup here but they were secondary.
>
> Now creeping featurism threatens to swallow Pine whole. The present
> configuration file is a nightmare in some areas, and it continually grows.

I'm very conscious that Pine is Washington's property - they made it -
they pay for it and so they're entitled to do what they like with it -
the rest of us are just free-loading.

However, I have to say that I agree wholeheartedly with Andrew on this.
(Boring over here aren't we?) We chose Pine because it did most of the
things that most people wanted - painlessly. User support gets harder as
more arcane features/options are added. Instead of having 20 advisors who
know all about Pine 3.0x, we're unlikely to have more than 5 who'll get to
grips with all of Pine 3.8x.

I do think that you should be conservative about adding features unless
they are geared to making life easier for Pine's original constituency. By
definition this list is for the people who setup/fix Pine, not its users -
contributions are unlikely to be representative of the user base.

On the same reasoning it's the ever-growing Pine strand that should have
a new name, not the "original". The original joke (PIne's Not Elm) is
going to backfire when people start to say that Pine's Not Pine Anymore.

Mike

==============================================================================
Mike Roch, Computer Services Centre, Tel: 0734 318430
The University, Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AF Fax: 0734 753094

From [email protected] Thu Feb 3 16:01:09 1994
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Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 17:48:32 -0500 (EST)
From: Shyela Aberman <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Shyela Aberman <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Saving sent mail
To: [email protected]
Cc: answer-l@emuvm1
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9402011152.F26622-0100000@sydte3>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.85.9402031647.A8302-0100000@dooley>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Hello Folks,
Working on a SunOS 5.3 (Sol2) system, I want to keep a copy of all
mail I send out. This is easy to do with mail/mush: I add "set record=
/home/labsha/mail/record" to my .mailrc. However, I have been having
some problems doing the same thing with pine 3.85. I have modified my
pinerc so that "default-fcc=/home/labsha/mail/record", and I have
come across some problems when I try to send mail from pine that
puzzle me. When I try to send mail I get the following message:

Folder "/home/labsha/mail/record" doesn't exist. Create? (y/n) [y]:

I get this whether or not ~/mail/record actually exists. If I say No:

[Find of folder outside context: /home/labsha/mail/record]
[Fcc of message rejected]

Pine doesn't send the message, and dumps me back in the compose screen.
If I say Yes, and ~/mail/record exists, I get:

[Can't create folder /home/labsha/mail/record: folder already exists]

Again, pine doesn't send the message, and dumps me back in the compose
screen. If I say Yes and ~/mail/ record doesn't exist, I then get:

[Find of folder outside context: /home/labsha/mail/record]
[Message sent, and copied to "/home/labsha/mail/record".]

So, here are my problems:
1) Why can't pine seem to recognize ~/mail/record, even when it exists?
a) Is it a problem with incompatible mail formats or something? I
wouldn't think so, cuz I can read the same mail file in mail, mush,
and pine with no problem, but...?
b) What does "out of context" mean within "Find of folder outside
context"? I get that when I try to get pine to recognize ~/mail/record
without creating a new file. This seems to be the real problem. Any
clues?
2) Why does rejecting the Fcc or inability to create ~/mail/record mean
that pine cannot send the mail?

With the recent/ongoing thread about sent-mail as well as several recent
system modifications, it occurred to me that this would be a perfect time
to ask Pine-Info and Answer-L. A couple of misc. related things:
1) I don't remember this happening before, so could it be related to the
OS or the global pine setup (ie, related to whatever system changes
have just happened)?
2) I would prefer that all my outgoing mail be in a single folder
(~/mail/record, if possible), but I suppose renaming it sent-mail
should theoretically avoid all my current problems. Does anyone know
a better way to approach my situation?

If someone could explain what pine is doing and why it is doing so, I
would appreciate it. Also, if you know something better to do, please
tell me.

thanx,
shy

From [email protected] Thu Feb 3 20:33:00 1994
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Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 20:17:10 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Saving sent mail
To: Shyela Aberman <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected], answer-l@emuvm1
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.85.9402031647.A8302-0100000@dooley>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
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Try setting "default-fcc=record". Some versions of pine prior to 3.89 had
problems with fully qualified paths for the default-fcc. Your problems
should also pretty well go away if you upgrade to Pine 3.89...

Thanks for the report!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Thu, 3 Feb 1994, Shyela Aberman wrote:

>
> Hello Folks,
> Working on a SunOS 5.3 (Sol2) system, I want to keep a copy of all
> mail I send out. This is easy to do with mail/mush: I add "set record=
> /home/labsha/mail/record" to my .mailrc. However, I have been having
> some problems doing the same thing with pine 3.85. I have modified my
> .pinerc so that "default-fcc=/home/labsha/mail/record", and I have
> come across some problems when I try to send mail from pine that
> puzzle me. When I try to send mail I get the following message:
>
> Folder "/home/labsha/mail/record" doesn't exist. Create? (y/n) [y]:
>
> I get this whether or not ~/mail/record actually exists. If I say No:
>
> [Find of folder outside context: /home/labsha/mail/record]
> [Fcc of message rejected]
>
> Pine doesn't send the message, and dumps me back in the compose screen.
> If I say Yes, and ~/mail/record exists, I get:
>
> [Can't create folder /home/labsha/mail/record: folder already exists]
>
> Again, pine doesn't send the message, and dumps me back in the compose
> screen. If I say Yes and ~/mail/ record doesn't exist, I then get:
>
> [Find of folder outside context: /home/labsha/mail/record]
> [Message sent, and copied to "/home/labsha/mail/record".]
>
> So, here are my problems:
> 1) Why can't pine seem to recognize ~/mail/record, even when it exists?
> a) Is it a problem with incompatible mail formats or something? I
> wouldn't think so, cuz I can read the same mail file in mail, mush,
> and pine with no problem, but...?
> b) What does "out of context" mean within "Find of folder outside
> context"? I get that when I try to get pine to recognize ~/mail/record
> without creating a new file. This seems to be the real problem. Any
> clues?
> 2) Why does rejecting the Fcc or inability to create ~/mail/record mean
> that pine cannot send the mail?
>
> With the recent/ongoing thread about sent-mail as well as several recent
> system modifications, it occurred to me that this would be a perfect time
> to ask Pine-Info and Answer-L. A couple of misc. related things:
> 1) I don't remember this happening before, so could it be related to the
> OS or the global pine setup (ie, related to whatever system changes
> have just happened)?
> 2) I would prefer that all my outgoing mail be in a single folder
> (~/mail/record, if possible), but I suppose renaming it sent-mail
> should theoretically avoid all my current problems. Does anyone know
> a better way to approach my situation?
>
> If someone could explain what pine is doing and why it is doing so, I
> would appreciate it. Also, if you know something better to do, please
> tell me.
>
> thanx,
> shy
>
>
>

From [email protected] Fri Feb 4 01:32:47 1994
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Date: Fri, 4 Feb 1994 00:54:48 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Suggestions
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Andrew, Barry, Jack, Michael, Mike, John, et al:

Here are a few reactions and comments from one of the culprits...

> We wanted to have something that was simple to use, required no user
> configuration...

And it's still true that Pine *requires* no user configuration. Erase
your .pinerc (and maybe even your pine.conf) and you can verify this for
yourself. In fact, you'll see a Pine that looks remarkably similar to the
very earliest versions, except that it has more consistency across
screens.

Even PC-Pine users never need edit their PINERC if they want a minimalist
Pine (or, as suggested, "pinelet"). That's because the first time they
run it, PC-Pine will prompt them for the configuration essentials (name,
imap server, smtp server).

One of the reasons we have not made the "Pine Configuration" screen our
highest priority is that it has always been our view that the config
options were there primarily for those who were not intimidated by them.

> Now creeping featurism threatens to swallow Pine whole.
> Pine is now complicated.

Note that some of you want the options to be *less* accessible, if not go
away altoghether, while others actually want them to be *more* accessible
(easier to configure.) We won't talk about those of you who want lots
*more* options, but you know who you are! :)

Remember, these creeping features that have swallowed Pine are indeed
*options*; those who do not explicitly turn them on, do not suffer any
added complexity. (Exception: if the system admin turns them on in the
pine.conf, well... that's a local policy decision. Also, the new status
indicators in the Index, + and A, are not configurable.)

> How about a menu-driven configuration built into pine with documentation
> to explain what the various options mean.

Planned. But I suppose we need to make its presence configurable, in
order to keep both the "no features" and "easier features" camps happy :)

> In order to satisfy both "normal" users and power users I would prefer
> to have a "User Level" command with options "beginner" and "advanced"

Old timers will recall that we used to do just that: there was a
normal/basic mode and an "old-growth"/advanced mode. However, we found
that many options are a question of personal taste, and did not relate to
experience level, so this model broke down. There is still a novice
mode, of course: it's what you get if you don't turn on any options!

> User support gets harder as more arcane features/options are added.
> Instead of having 20 advisors who know all about Pine 3.0x, we're unlikely
> to have more than 5 who'll get to grips with all of Pine 3.8x.

Could we get those 5 to help us with pine-bugs support? :)

Mike's point is valid, of course, but on the other hand each site needs to
define it's own base configuration and level of support.

Suppose that there was a "pinelet"... a base version that had no options.
A user asks "How can I do xxx in Pinelet?" The support staff says "Sorry,
it can't be done in Pinelet." whereas the corresponding answer for
regular Pine might be: "Sorry, that feature is not available in the Pine
configuration supported at this site". (Or they could say "RTFM"...)

But if folks really want a "pinelet", you can have it right now! Just
have "pinelet" be an alias for "pine -p /usr/local/dummy.pinerc" and
presto. no personal pinerc and no user-settable options! Just good-old,
simple Pine :) (PC users wanting a "pinelet" must simply use some
self-discipline and *pretend* they don't have a PINERC...)

> ... and which (one of early Pine's proud boasts) didn't need
> paper documentation because it was so small.

Well, with Pine option configuration disabled as above, that's probably
still true, too! (At least as true as it ever was... documentation is a
funny thing. Some people will use online but not hard-copy, some are just
the opposite, and the vast majority refuse to use either! :)

-teg

From [email protected] Fri Feb 4 01:50:27 1994
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Date: Fri, 4 Feb 1994 09:27:52 +0000 (GMT)
From: Philip Hazel <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Suggestions
To: "A. Hilborne" <[email protected]>
Cc: "Gregory J. Atchity" <[email protected]>,
[email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9402031713.A18770-0100000@scawdell>
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> Pine should be frozen at it's current state of development, or preferably a
> couple of states back, where the config file was simpler and there were no
> stubs for "coming" features visible to the user.
>
> This version of Pine can either retain the name, or become, say, "Pinelet."
> Perhaps someone out there can think of a suitable diminutive name. The
> version we have now can then move on until it suits all us power users out
> here. Only bug fixes would be back-grafted onto Pinelet.
>
> What do you think?

I don't think this is a good idea. There would be confusion between
the two products, and one wouldn't be able to remember which did what.

We already have problems with the "novice" vs "old growth" modes in Pine.
Scenario:

A user phones up with a problem about the message. Adviser asks "What are
the full headers?". User can't see all the headers, of course. Adviser says
"press h to see the full headers". Users presses h. Nothing happens,
because h is a "power user feature". A messy interchange follows.

I see no reason why Pine shouldn't have a number of configurable options,
provided that the defaults are all suited for the novice, and there is an
easy-to-use configuration screen with lots of explanation for each option,
(a paragraph rather than a couple of words), so it is simple to make changes.

Users will advance as time progresses. Novices become power users in time.
It's simpler if they can just start to use additional features of the same,
familiar product.

Philip

--
Philip Hazel University Computing Service,
[email protected] New Museums Site, Cambridge CB2 3QG,
[email protected] England. Phone: +44 223 334714

From [email protected] Fri Feb 4 03:50:13 1994
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Date: Fri, 4 Feb 94 12:32:41 +0100
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From: Klaus Zeuge <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected], [email protected]
In-Reply-To: David L Miller's message of Thu, 3 Feb 1994 08:40:00 -0800 (PST) <[email protected]>
Subject: 8-bit characters in the header.

>Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 08:40:00 -0800 (PST)
>From: David L Miller <[email protected]>

>Actually it's not that controversial, RFC1522 defines a way to represent
>non-ASCII characters in headers. Pine will support this eventually, but
>probably not in the next release.

Too bad. It would make Pine really shine. It's bit hard to explain to
someone named Bj=F6rn =E5sberg why he can use his name in the message
body, but not in the TO, FROM etc fields.

From [email protected] Fri Feb 4 03:50:13 1994
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id <[email protected]>; Fri, 4 Feb 1994 11:30:10 +0000
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 1994 11:30:48 +0000 (GMT)
From: Dave King <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Dave King <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Suggestions
To: Philip Hazel <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Apologies for yet another suggestion (which may have been made before),
but if "pine.conf" settings (when set) took precendence over ".pinerc"
settings this would give sites an opportunity to setup Pine to suit their
user community. This would allow sites to:

1. Take advantage of new Pine releases (to overcome possible bugs).
2. Control the release of new features to the user community.
3. Block possibly undesireable features ("Update" and enable-suspend).
4. Fix variables such as "user-domain", and possibly "news-server", etc.

If this approach was adopted, Pine would need to clearly inform the user
when a user configured option has been disabled if the user sets it in
their .pinerc file.

As an example, I currently have the bounce and zoom commands disabled in
pine.conf to avoid user confusion, but will make them available when they
are implemented.

Is the "pine.conf takes precedence over .pinerc" the perfect solution?

Dave

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave King, Admin. Computing Services Manager, University of Bristol
[email protected] (JANET) [email protected] (INTERNET)

From [email protected] Fri Feb 4 04:25:21 1994
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Date: Fri, 4 Feb 1994 07:07:02 -0500
From: Robert Morris <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]> (message from Klaus Zeuge on Fri, 4 Feb 94 12:32:41 +0100)
Subject: Re: 8-bit characters in the header.
Reply-To: [email protected]

>>>>> "Klaus" == Klaus Zeuge <[email protected]> writes:

>> Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 08:40:00 -0800 (PST) From: David L Miller
>> <[email protected]>

>> Actually it's not that controversial, RFC1522 defines a way to
>> represent non-ASCII characters in headers. Pine will support this
>> eventually, but probably not in the next release.

> Too bad. It would make Pine really shine. It's bit hard to explain
> to someone named Bj=F6rn =E5sberg why he can use his name in the
> message body, but not in the TO, FROM etc fields.

Nah, it's not so hard to explain. RFC822 was written in 1982. The
Atlantic Ocean wasn't discovered until 1991, and the Pacific Ocean a
year later. Latin America still hasn't been discovered, I think.

Hah,hah, only serious.

Bob Morris

From [email protected] Fri Feb 4 04:54:39 1994
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Date: Fri, 4 Feb 1994 12:31:05 +0000 (GMT)
From: "A. Hilborne" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Suggestions
To: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9402041243.K8246-0100000@scawdell>
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I must say I am impressed by the level of debate which has come about as a
result of my previous message.

To answer all the messages I have seen so far...

0. I should have started off by thanking the UoW crew for giving us Pine at
all. I'd like to make amends by offering a VERY BIG THANKYOU here.

1. I think that a reasonable config/preference screen would remove a lot of
the problems with the present config file.

2. The possibility that "Pine-out-of-the-box" should use a simple config
file, with a "power-user option" to create and use a more complex one
sounds attractive, but would clearly be considerable work.

3. I shall definitely bear in mind the suggestion that "Pinelet" be something
like "pine -p <simple config file>."

4. I accept the argument that Pine and "Pinelet" should not be developed
separately.

5. The suggestion that pine.conf override .pinerc also sounds interesting,
but there should be a .pinerc option to override the override! Many
mature UNIX programs do this sort of thing (UCB Mail, EMACS, nn, ...) but
normally it is only a command-line option. This a pain because it makes
the user have his own wrapper when he hardly needs one.

6. Documentation. If a reasonable paper manual appears, it should hive off
all the advanced options to a _very_ separate section.

--
Andrew M. Hilborne [email protected]
Computing Service Tel: +44 91 222 8226 (direct)
University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK. +44 91 222 8039 (Comp Service office)

From [email protected] Fri Feb 4 07:08:55 1994
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id <[email protected]>; Fri, 4 Feb 1994 14:48:40 +0000
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 1994 14:46:32 GMT
From: Barry Landy <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Suggestions
To: Dave King <[email protected]>
Cc: Philip Hazel <[email protected]>, [email protected]
X-Sender: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <PCPine_p.3.89.9402041421.A6401-0100000@[131.111.10.53]>
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Sounds to me like three levels are needed:

pine.conf - naive users standard defaults
pinerc - upgrades for less naive users (settable by editor or online
config system)
pine.absolute - local settings that cannot be over-ridden in any way

(and this does not make things more complicated for the simple users, but
does allow the system managers to lock out things that they dont want
experimented with or altered).

On Fri, 4 Feb 1994, Dave King wrote:

> Apologies for yet another suggestion (which may have been made before),
> but if "pine.conf" settings (when set) took precendence over ".pinerc"
> settings this would give sites an opportunity to setup Pine to suit their
> user community. This would allow sites to:
>
> 1. Take advantage of new Pine releases (to overcome possible bugs).
> 2. Control the release of new features to the user community.
> 3. Block possibly undesireable features ("Update" and enable-suspend).
> 4. Fix variables such as "user-domain", and possibly "news-server", etc.
>
> If this approach was adopted, Pine would need to clearly inform the user
> when a user configured option has been disabled if the user sets it in
> their .pinerc file.
>
> As an example, I currently have the bounce and zoom commands disabled in
> pine.conf to avoid user confusion, but will make them available when they
> are implemented.
>
> Is the "pine.conf takes precedence over .pinerc" the perfect solution?
>

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry Landy Computer Laboratory:+44 223 334600
Head of Systems and Development Direct line: +44 223 334713
University of Cambridge Computing Service
New Museums Site Email:[email protected]
Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QG

From [email protected] Fri Feb 4 11:47:28 1994
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Date: Fri, 4 Feb 1994 13:32:29 -0600 (CST)
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Suggestions
To: Pine Info <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <PCPine_p.3.89.9402041421.A6401-0100000@[131.111.10.53]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
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On Fri, 4 Feb 1994, Barry Landy wrote:

> Sounds to me like three levels are needed:
>
> pine.conf - naive users standard defaults
> .pinerc - upgrades for less naive users (settable by editor or online
> config system)
> pine.absolute - local settings that cannot be over-ridden in any way
>
> (and this does not make things more complicated for the simple users, but
> does allow the system managers to lock out things that they dont want
> experimented with or altered).

I dont' like it.

Admins I know are very paranoid. As a matter of fact, when I installed
filter and started sorting my mail into different subject-related
mailboxes, I had to spend an hour explaining to the admin exactly what it
was I was doing, and even then she only grudingly agree to allow me to do
it because I get so much mail.

All it would take is an unapproachable and uninformed admin and users
have all advanced options locked out, which turns around and makes pine
useless.

I'd simply have it so that pine.conf is the default, and then users who
know what they are doing modify their .pinerc for their specific needs.

Of course, since I'm not an admin, I'm just reporting on what I;d like as
a user (and what I fear as a user).

____ Robert A. Hayden <=> [email protected]
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> In the United States, they
\/ Finger for PGP 2.3a Public Key <=> first came for us in Colorado...
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 1.0.1) GAT d- -p+(---) c++(++++) l++ u++ e+/* m++(*)@ s-/++
n-(---) h+(*) f+ g+ w++ t++ r++ y+(*)

From [email protected] Fri Feb 4 12:11:02 1994
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Date: Fri, 4 Feb 94 14:51:19 EST
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: pine with MMDF

There's a driver for MMDF in the c-client directory and the docs
mention support for MMDF, but I can't find anything that indicates
how to set this up. Does anyone have any experience with a pine/MMDF
combination?

Steve Leonard
Northeast Parallel Architecture Center at Syracuse University
e-mail: [email protected]

From [email protected] Fri Feb 4 12:29:36 1994
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Date: Fri, 4 Feb 1994 12:13:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: 8-bit characters in the header.
To: Klaus Zeuge <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
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> Too bad. It would make Pine really shine. It's bit hard to explain to
> someone named Bj=F6rn =E5sberg why he can use his name in the message
> body, but not in the TO, FROM etc fields.

Klaus -

Just to sensitize people to the problem, on my screen that name appeared=20
as: "Bj", a filled-in square, "n ", a Chinese character meaning a kind of=
=20
shell, and "berg". My screen is set up with the Japanese character set.

Fortunately, Pine was able to recognize that it may not display the text=20
properly, and warned me of that fact (hey, it's better than refusing to=20
display it at all, which earlier versions did!). However, it's important=
=20
to realize that all the world isn't ISO-8859.

Pine *will* support non-ASCII characters in headers, but you should=20
always have a reasonable 7-bit form of your name for the benefit of those=
=20
who can't display European characters.

From [email protected] Fri Feb 4 13:10:11 1994
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Date: Fri, 4 Feb 1994 15:37:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Shyela Aberman <[email protected]>
Subject:
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <Pine.3.85.9402041506.A5727-0100000@dooley>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Folks,
Has anyone tried to compile Pine 3.89 on a SunOS 5.3 machine (sol2)?

I have, and have gotten the following compilation errors:

Making Pine.
cc -DSV4 -g -DDEBUG -c addrbook.c
"/usr/include/unistd.h", line 171: identifier redeclared: rename
"addrbook.c", line 200: warning: semantics of ">" change in ANSI C; use
explicit cast
"addrbook.c", line 204: warning: semantics of ">" change in ANSI C; use
explicit cast
"addrbook.c", line 1349: cannot recover from previous errors
cc: acomp failed for addrbook.c
*** Error code 1
make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `addrbook.o'

The errors about semantics aren't a problem near as I can tell; the
c-client, pico, mtest, and imapd have them and compile successfully. What
I think the problem is, but can't find where to fix is the "identifier
redeclared: rename".

I've searched all the source code for declarations of rename that would
mess with unistd.h, but pico and the c-client seem to be the only ones.

Since I'm not familiar at all with the code, does anyone out there
(hello, pine development team! :-) have any idea where to look or what to
do to fix this?

thanx, and I hope this isn't a FAQ or something,

shy

P.S. cc doesn't seem to be the usual /usr/bin/cc, but is
/opt/SUNWspro/bin/cc and thus the package uses cc5.sol.

/----------------------------------+-----------------------------------------\
|Shyela Aberman, Emory University -|- Consultant, Exec. Editor, CS Major, |
| 404-712-2229 -|- Martial Artist, and Good Kisser |
|----------------------------------+-----------------------------------------|
|INTERNET: [email protected] OTHER: [email protected] |
|BITNET: labsha@emoryu1 UUCP: {rutgers,gatech}!emoryu1!labsha |
\----------------------------------------------------------------------------/

From [email protected] Fri Feb 4 13:14:32 1994
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Date: Fri, 4 Feb 1994 15:26:37 -0500 (EST)
From: Dan Schlitt <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Suggestions
To: "Robert A. Hayden" <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Info <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I would suggest to you that there are already the three levels that some
folks want. There is the global configuration file, the individual
configuration file and there are the compilation options. But the
individual ought to be able to override the global configuration on most
things.

One should remember that on most unix systems MUAs are user level programs
that don't require privilege. With docile users (or in a rigid corporate
environment) you may be able to impose strict rules. But in many places
anyone can bring in their own MUA and use it. This means that
restrictions on the configuration of MUAs better have good rationales and
that the global configuration is primarily to make it convenient for most
users to use the program without having to worry about the configuration.

/dan

Dan Schlitt School of Engineering Computer Systems
[email protected] City College of New York
(212)650-6760 New York, NY 10031

From [email protected] Fri Feb 4 13:38:00 1994
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To: "Pine mailer discussions group (pine-infoEcac.washington.edu)" <[email protected]>,
Pine Info <[email protected]>

From [email protected] Fri Feb 4 13:53:07 1994
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Date: Fri, 4 Feb 1994 13:33:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: pine with MMDF
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Fri, 4 Feb 1994 [email protected] wrote:
> There's a driver for MMDF in the c-client directory and the docs
> mention support for MMDF, but I can't find anything that indicates
> how to set this up. Does anyone have any experience with a pine/MMDF
> combination?

Hello. The c-client MMDF support is contributed code, and there are
various rumors about whether or not it really works. I think that it
needs some hacker attention to knock it into shape. We don't use MMDF
here, so it's somewhat difficult for us to fix it.

From [email protected] Fri Feb 4 16:45:25 1994
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Message-Id: <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: IMAP or PC-PINE problem?
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 94 16:21:45 -0800
From: [email protected]
X-Mts: smtp

We have IMAP 3.2 and PC-PINE 3.89. When trying to save a message to a
folder on the mainframe (the IMAP server) is says "IMAP error: APPEND
request unknown:" then "Save Request Unknown:". It works fine if you
save them on the local PC. I had assumed it was a problem with the
IMAP server, however another IMAP client "Mailstrom" (a mac client) will
save folders on the mainframe just fine.

Anyone have any helpful hints?

Randy Bell
----------------------------------------------------------------------
User Services, University Computing Services
Email: [email protected] Phone: (503) 737-4267

From [email protected] Fri Feb 4 17:09:56 1994
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Date: Fri, 4 Feb 1994 16:49:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: IMAP or PC-PINE problem?
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected], [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.90.9402041619.1731B-0100000@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Fri, 4 Feb 1994 [email protected] wrote:
> We have IMAP 3.2 and PC-PINE 3.89. When trying to save a message to a
> folder on the mainframe (the IMAP server) is says "IMAP error: APPEND
> request unknown:" then "Save Request Unknown:". It works fine if you
> save them on the local PC. I had assumed it was a problem with the
> IMAP server, however another IMAP client "Mailstrom" (a mac client) will
> save folders on the mainframe just fine.

It appears that you are running the old Stanford IMAP2 server which is
based on RFC-1064. You need to have an IMAP2bis server, such as the UW
IMAP server, in order to save messages on the server from PC Pine.

Note that the Stanford IMAP2 server uses the COPY command, and thus can
only copy messages from one folder on the server to the other. IMAP2bis
servers have the more general APPEND command (which is what PC Pine
uses), so the source and destination can be different systems.

From [email protected] Fri Feb 4 17:18:22 1994
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Date: Sat, 5 Feb 1994 01:52:10 +0100 (MET)
From: Michael Wolf <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Michael Wolf <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: 8-bit characters in the header.
To: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Cc: Klaus Zeuge <[email protected]>, [email protected],
[email protected], [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.1.1.9402050144.B2231-0100000@sun3>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

On Fri, 4 Feb 1994, Mark Crispin wrote:

> Klaus -
>
> ........................................ .However, it's important
> to realize that all the world isn't ISO-8859.
>
>............................................... , but you should
>always have a reasonable 7-bit form of your name for the benefit of those
> who can't display European characters.
>

I agree. Klaus may wish to use non ASCII characters only locally. But I
also think that we all should try to keep internet messages in *English*.
In addition, even many (not all) computer applications should remain in
English and restrict themselves to ASCII.

Michael

From [email protected] Fri Feb 4 17:27:40 1994
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Date: Fri, 4 Feb 1994 17:04:40 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: IMAP or PC-PINE problem?
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected], [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Randy,

IMAP 3.2(85) is a very ancient version of imapd. You should download the
latest version from ftp.cac.washington.edu. The source is in the file
mail/imap.tar.Z or there are selected binaroes in the mail/unix-bin
directory.

Thanks for the report!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Fri, 4 Feb 1994 [email protected] wrote:

>
> We have IMAP 3.2 and PC-PINE 3.89. When trying to save a message to a
> folder on the mainframe (the IMAP server) is says "IMAP error: APPEND
> request unknown:" then "Save Request Unknown:". It works fine if you
> save them on the local PC. I had assumed it was a problem with the
> IMAP server, however another IMAP client "Mailstrom" (a mac client) will
> save folders on the mainframe just fine.
>
> Anyone have any helpful hints?
>
> Randy Bell
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> User Services, University Computing Services
> Email: [email protected] Phone: (503) 737-4267

From [email protected] Sat Feb 5 11:23:49 1994
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Date: Sat, 5 Feb 1994 18:51:34 +0000 (GMT)
From: Barry Landy <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Suggestions
To: Dan Schlitt <[email protected]>
Cc: "Robert A. Hayden" <[email protected]>,
Pine Info <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

True on many but not all systems. Some of us (and not just me!) run mail
systems on restricted shell unix systems where the usrs do not have the
freedom to install their own programs, and where we have to do a lot of
work to keep them out of things we dont want them to have (shell busters
like calling your own editor, for example).

Compilation options are fine when they exist, but if they dont we are
down to hacking or nagging the developers.

On Fri, 4 Feb 1994, Dan Schlitt wrote:

> I would suggest to you that there are already the three levels that some
> folks want. There is the global configuration file, the individual
> configuration file and there are the compilation options. But the
> individual ought to be able to override the global configuration on most
> things.
>
> One should remember that on most unix systems MUAs are user level programs
> that don't require privilege. With docile users (or in a rigid corporate
> environment) you may be able to impose strict rules. But in many places
> anyone can bring in their own MUA and use it. This means that
> restrictions on the configuration of MUAs better have good rationales and
> that the global configuration is primarily to make it convenient for most
> users to use the program without having to worry about the configuration.
>
> /dan
>
> Dan Schlitt School of Engineering Computer Systems
> [email protected] City College of New York
> (212)650-6760 New York, NY 10031
>
>
>
>

=======================================================================
Barry Landy, Head of Systems and Development,
University of Cambridge Computing Service
[email protected] 0223-334713 +44-223-334713

From [email protected] Sun Feb 6 17:27:45 1994
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Date: Mon, 7 Feb 94 02:05:55 +0100
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X-Zippy-Proclaims: The PINK SOCKS were ORIGINALLY from 1952!! But they went to
MARS around 1953!!
X-Dogma: 36 >> 32
From: Klaus Zeuge <[email protected]>
X-Phone: (int) +46-18-271064
X-Fax: (int) +46-18-271031
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected],
[email protected], [email protected]
In-Reply-To: Michael Wolf's message of Sat, 5 Feb 1994 01:52:10 +0100 (MET) <Pine.3.89.1.1.9402050144.B2231-0100000@sun3>
Subject: 8-bit characters in the header.

>Date: Sat, 5 Feb 1994 01:52:10 +0100 (MET)
>From: Michael Wolf <[email protected]>
>
>
>I agree. Klaus may wish to use non ASCII characters only locally. But I
>also think that we all should try to keep internet messages in *English*.
>In addition, even many (not all) computer applications should remain in
>English and restrict themselves to ASCII.

Why? Arent't you supposed to *use* email among actual (physical) *PEOPLE* ?

From [email protected] Sun Feb 6 17:30:20 1994
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Date: Mon, 7 Feb 94 02:09:28 +0100
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
X-Zippy-Proclaims: UH-OH!! I put on ``GREAT HEAD-ON TRAIN COLLISIONS of the
50's'' by mistake!!!
X-Dogma: 36 >> 32
From: Klaus Zeuge <[email protected]>
X-Phone: (int) +46-18-271064
X-Fax: (int) +46-18-271031
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected],
[email protected]
In-Reply-To: Mark Crispin's message of Fri, 4 Feb 1994 12:13:17 -0800 (PST) <[email protected]>
Subject: 8-bit characters in the header.

>Date: Fri, 4 Feb 1994 12:13:17 -0800 (PST)
>From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>

>shell, and "berg". My screen is set up with the Japanese character set.

Hm, my message was encoded using ISO 8859-1. My message SAID so. How
come you tried to read it in JAPANESE?

I think (while not being SURE) there is a bug somewhere here.

From [email protected] Sun Feb 6 18:40:03 1994
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Date: Sun, 6 Feb 1994 18:00:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Subject: re: 8-bit characters in the header.
To: Klaus Zeuge <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

On Mon, 7 Feb 94 02:09:28 +0100, Klaus Zeuge wrote:
> Hm, my message was encoded using ISO 8859-1. My message SAID so. How
> come you tried to read it in JAPANESE?

Yes, your message was encoded using 8859-1, and yes, I was warned that it was
not likely to be displayed correctly. But my terminal was not capable of
displaying 8859-1. It is only capable of displaying Japanese.

> I think (while not being SURE) there is a bug somewhere here.

Pine had the choice of displaying the 8859-1 in the Japanese character set
(and hoping that there would be enough ASCII that I could make some sense of
it), or it could refuse to display it at all. I claim that Pine did the right
thing by giving me a warning, and then trying to show me something.

The point is, not everyone can assume that every terminal in the world has
8859. It is Euro-centric to assume otherwise.

Don't forget, there are more people who use East Asian characters than there
are Europeans; if it came down to it, they out-number you. This is the
underlying fault of the ``8-bit clean is enough'' idea.

We all need to be very careful to make sure we have a match in character sets
between sender and receiver and not make assumptions. If there is any
question about the capabilities of the receiver's terminal, it is best to
limit yourself to ASCII.

From [email protected] Mon Feb 7 04:05:36 1994
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Message-Id: <[email protected]>
X-Zippy-Proclaims: I guess it was all a DREAM.. or an episode of HAWAII
FIVE-O...
X-Dogma: 36 >> 32
From: Klaus Zeuge <[email protected]>
X-Phone: (int) +46-18-271064
X-Fax: (int) +46-18-271031
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
In-Reply-To: Mark Crispin's message of Sun, 6 Feb 1994 18:00:46 -0800 (PST) <[email protected]>
Subject: 8-bit characters in the header.

>Date: Sun, 6 Feb 1994 18:00:46 -0800 (PST)
>From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>

>Yes, your message was encoded using 8859-1, and yes, I was warned that it was
>not likely to be displayed correctly. But my terminal was not capable of
>displaying 8859-1. It is only capable of displaying Japanese.

OK, this is were I misunderstood you. I had gotten the impression you
weren't being warned.

>it), or it could refuse to display it at all. I claim that Pine did the right
>thing by giving me a warning, and then trying to show me something.

I agree.

Still, I would like this mechanism used in the header also (well,
actually I'm content with the real name part in the FROM, TO, CC etc
fields).

/Klaus

From [email protected] Mon Feb 7 04:13:51 1994
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id <[email protected]>; Mon, 7 Feb 1994 11:31:04 +0000
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 1994 11:28:54 GMT
From: Barry Landy <[email protected]>
Subject: re: 8-bit characters in the header.
To: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Cc: Klaus Zeuge <[email protected]>, [email protected],
[email protected], [email protected]
X-Sender: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
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On Sun, 6 Feb 1994, Mark Crispin wrote:

> On Mon, 7 Feb 94 02:09:28 +0100, Klaus Zeuge wrote:
> > Hm, my message was encoded using ISO 8859-1. My message SAID so. How
> > come you tried to read it in JAPANESE?
>
> Yes, your message was encoded using 8859-1, and yes, I was warned that it was
> not likely to be displayed correctly. But my terminal was not capable of
> displaying 8859-1. It is only capable of displaying Japanese.
>
> > I think (while not being SURE) there is a bug somewhere here.
>
> Pine had the choice of displaying the 8859-1 in the Japanese character set
> (and hoping that there would be enough ASCII that I could make some sense of
> it), or it could refuse to display it at all. I claim that Pine did the right
> thing by giving me a warning, and then trying to show me something.
>
> The point is, not everyone can assume that every terminal in the world has
> 8859. It is Euro-centric to assume otherwise.
>
> Don't forget, there are more people who use East Asian characters than there
> are Europeans; if it came down to it, they out-number you. This is the
> underlying fault of the ``8-bit clean is enough'' idea.

While that is true, it is also true that there are more Europeans than
Americans, and since 8859 will also cope very well with N America,
perhaps it is a better default?

>
> We all need to be very careful to make sure we have a match in character sets
> between sender and receiver and not make assumptions. If there is any
> question about the capabilities of the receiver's terminal, it is best to
> limit yourself to ASCII.
>

Well and all but it is hard to know, especially if one is a naive sender
of mail typing what to you are normal characters.

On the general issue, the problem is not solved until ISOCODE/ISO 90646
comes into effect, but we will then all have to embrace the implications.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry Landy Computer Laboratory:+44 223 334600
Head of Systems and Development Direct line: +44 223 334713
University of Cambridge Computing Service
New Museums Site Email:[email protected]
Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QG

From [email protected] Mon Feb 7 05:06:59 1994
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Date: Mon, 7 Feb 1994 13:41:09 +0100 (MET)
From: Michael Wolf <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: 8-bit characters in the header.
To: Klaus Zeuge <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 7 Feb 1994, Klaus Zeuge wrote:

>
> >Date: Sat, 5 Feb 1994 01:52:10 +0100 (MET)
> >From: Michael Wolf <[email protected]>
> >
> >
> >I agree. Klaus may wish to use non ASCII characters only locally. But I
> >also think that we all should try to keep internet messages in *English*.
> >.................
>
> Why? Arent't you supposed to *use* email among actual (physical) *PEOPLE* ?
>

Sure. But I would make a difference between local and international
communications.

It is important for us to understand each other. A good "tool" for this
purpose is English. I am happy to have the possibility to communicate all
over the world, even if I have some difficulties, with the language or
with the character set.

Michael

From [email protected] Mon Feb 7 05:18:34 1994
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Date: Mon, 7 Feb 1994 12:56:02 +0000 (GMT)
From: Barry Cornelius <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Suggestions
To: Pine Info <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
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On Sat, 5 Feb 1994, Barry Landy wrote:

> True on many but not all systems. Some of us (and not just me!) run mail
> systems on restricted shell unix systems where the usrs do not have the
> freedom to install their own programs, and where we have to do a lot of
> work to keep them out of things we dont want them to have (shell busters
> like calling your own editor, for example).
>
> Compilation options are fine when they exist, but if they dont we are
> down to hacking or nagging the developers.

One change to Pine that we would like is to prevent the user from setting
the user-domain and use-only-domain-name variables. It is inappropriate
in our environment for users to change these. If they do, they send out
messages that can't be replied to by the recipient.

To use the terminology introduced above, I have "hacked" the code to
give out a message if the user sets either of these variables.

I was going ask the Pine development team if they could add a compilation
option for this. Or it could instead be done by the third configuration
file that others are suggesting. This is the file that overrides the
user's settings of some variables.

--
Barry Cornelius Durham (091 or +44 91) 374 4717
Information Technology Service, IT Service Office: 374 2892
University of Durham, Durham. Fax: 374 3741
DH1 3LE, UK E-mail: [email protected]

From [email protected] Mon Feb 7 07:49:38 1994
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Date: Mon, 7 Feb 1994 10:24:49 -0500 (EST)
From: Jeff Traigle <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Jeff Traigle <[email protected]>
Subject: Pine/imapd and SGI weirdness
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

I'm having a small problem with the pre-authentication mechanism on my
SGI clients and have been unable to determine the cause so far. Hopefully
someone out there has some insight.

Setup: SGI as mail/imap server, Sun as NIS server

Problem: SGI clients insist on login/password to access the mail server.

Hints: Suns and SGI mail/imap server have no problems with
pre-authentication. Doesn't matter whether or not the passwd info is in NIS
or local to machines.

Configuration:
l--------- 1 root sys 20 Jan 28 13:25 /etc/rimapd@ -> /usr/local/etc/imapd

-rwxr-xr-x 1 root sys 549268 Feb 7 09:30 /usr/local/etc/imapd

inetd.conf entry
imap stream tcp nowait root /usr/local/etc/imapd imapd

If anybody has experienced this or has any ideas about what might be
causing it, I'd really appreciate the input. Other admins on campus who
have similar setups tell me they don't have this problem, but I've been
unable to determine differences in setups that would account for the
difference in behavior (unless they aren't running 3.89 as I am trying to
do).

=============================================================================
| Jeff Traigle | Systems Administrator | University of Michigan |
=============================================================================
| College of Pharmacy | Biophysics Research Division |
=============================================================================
| Masters of Science in Computer Science and Engineering |
=============================================================================
| Masters of Information and Library Studies |
=============================================================================

From [email protected] Mon Feb 7 09:49:25 1994
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Date: Mon, 7 Feb 1994 19:19:43 +0200
From: Kari Sutela <[email protected]>
Subject: re: 8-bit characters in the header.
To: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 7 Feb 1994, Mark Crispin wrote:

> The point is, not everyone can assume that every terminal in the world ha=
s
> 8859. It is Euro-centric to assume otherwise.

Ok, ok. Let's just change the suggestion to "please, allow pine to=20
use non-ASCII characters in the header by implementing the RFC which=20
describes how to do this without breaking any rules" :-) It has been=20
promised that pine will eventually do this and I'm satisfied.

> We all need to be very careful to make sure we have a match in character =
sets
> between sender and receiver and not make assumptions. If there is any
> question about the capabilities of the receiver's terminal, it is best to
> limit yourself to ASCII.

But I have a very hard job in explaining this to my 3000 users who HAVE a
display which supports 8859-1 that they can't user =E4 and =F6 in subjects,=
=20
when most of them just exchange email locally. Don't take me wrong, I=20
really appreciate the pine folks and I think that pine is great! This is=
=20
just one relatively minor inconvenience.

/KS

From [email protected] Mon Feb 7 09:57:21 1994
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Date: Mon, 7 Feb 1994 12:38:57 -0500 (EST)
From: Jeff Traigle <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Jeff Traigle <[email protected]>
Subject: SOLVED Re: Pine/imapd and SGI weirdness
To: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Seems I found the problem after digging around in the source code. There
is a bug in the os_sgi.c code for the c-client in the pine-3.89
distribution. Line 411 of this file reads:

execl ("/usr/ucb/rsh","rsh",hostname,"exec",service,0);

It should read:

execl ("/usr/bsd/rsh","rsh",hostname,"exec",service,0);

There is no /usr/ucb directory on SGIs (at least not ones running 4.0.x).
Changing this line and recompiling pine seems to have remedied the
problem I was having.

=============================================================================
| Jeff Traigle | Systems Administrator | University of Michigan |
=============================================================================
| College of Pharmacy | Biophysics Research Division |
=============================================================================
| Masters of Science in Computer Science and Engineering |
=============================================================================
| Masters of Information and Library Studies |
=============================================================================

From [email protected] Mon Feb 7 11:00:35 1994
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Date: Mon, 7 Feb 1994 10:25:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Subject: re: 8-bit characters in the header.
To: Barry Landy <[email protected]>
Cc: Klaus Zeuge <[email protected]>, [email protected],
[email protected], [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <PCPine_p.3.89.9402071150.A6151-0100000@[131.111.10.53]>
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On Mon, 7 Feb 1994 11:28:54 GMT, Barry Landy wrote:
> While that is true, it is also true that there are more Europeans than
> Americans, and since 8859 will also cope very well with N America,
> perhaps it is a better default?

As a data point, inside the US and Canada there are still a great many
terminals which do not support 8859. In fact, most *terminals* do not support
8859; it's the small set of lucky people who have X terminals who have 8859
capability by default, plus a few who have the right terminal emulator on
their Mac or PC.

It is only until very recently that the US was the ``majority'' of the
Internet (now, it's merely the ``largest country represented'' on the
Internet). Furthermore, you have to consider the looming importance of Asia
in the Internet scene. Asia is already more important than Europe in
international economy, and there's no reason to believe the steamroller is
going to stop at that.

All this suggests that it is not safe to assume 8859 as a given except within
Europe. 7bit ASCII is the only thing that you can reasonably assume is
universal.

From [email protected] Mon Feb 7 11:07:14 1994
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Date: Mon, 7 Feb 1994 10:40:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Subject: re: Pine/imapd and SGI weirdness
To: Jeff Traigle <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Hello.

There is a bug in Pine 3.89 on SGI systems related to preauthentication. It
is fixed in Pine 3.90.

In pine/imap/non-ANSI/c-client/os_sgi.c, find the reference to "/usr/ucb/rsh"
and replace it with RSHPATH (no quotes). Then rebuild.

From [email protected] Mon Feb 7 13:49:04 1994
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Date: Mon, 7 Feb 1994 21:29:52 +0000 (GMT)
From: Barry Landy <[email protected]>
Subject: re: 8-bit characters in the header.
To: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Cc: Klaus Zeuge <[email protected]>, [email protected],
[email protected], [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 7 Feb 1994, Mark Crispin wrote:

> On Mon, 7 Feb 1994 11:28:54 GMT, Barry Landy wrote:
> > While that is true, it is also true that there are more Europeans than
> > Americans, and since 8859 will also cope very well with N America,
> > perhaps it is a better default?
>
> As a data point, inside the US and Canada there are still a great many
> terminals which do not support 8859. In fact, most *terminals* do not support
> 8859; it's the small set of lucky people who have X terminals who have 8859
> capability by default, plus a few who have the right terminal emulator on
> their Mac or PC.
Well, I very naively just set ISO-8859-1 in my PINERC and got the magic
characters from that Finnish name loud and clear; I then set codepage 850
and keyboard uk, and my whole world worked normally. What's the point? I
have a bog standard PC with no requested special language support.
I have a French Canadian friend who would take strong issue with you on
the underlying point, which he calls linguistic and cultural fasciscm
(yea, he is really hot on this point!) basically, it is bad enough that
most computer applications assume that people *speak* English, but for
heavens sake let them *write* other languages, and especially their names!

>
> It is only until very recently that the US was the ``majority'' of the
> Internet (now, it's merely the ``largest country represented'' on the
> Internet). Furthermore, you have to consider the looming importance of Asia

I assumed we were talking about the total computing economy - just
because Europe has been slow in taking up internet, doesnt mean it can be
ignored, especially as the solutions are already there, and just need to
be used.

> in the Internet scene. Asia is already more important than Europe in
> international economy, and there's no reason to believe the steamroller is
> going to stop at that.

As I said in my earlier message, the linguistic problem is wider than
Europe and not just confined to Asia (Hebrew, Arabic, Turkish, Greek, are
European in scope these days); the problem solution to that is "in the
wings" and no one will be able to ignore it.

>
> All this suggests that it is not safe to assume 8859 as a given except within
> Europe. 7bit ASCII is the only thing that you can reasonably assume is
> universal.

All very well, but you will find that you cannot then write some people's
names in messages.

Sorry to go on a bit (it always helps oneself perhaps more than the
readers) but it is an issue on which Europeans (and other people world
wide who do not have the English alphabet as their first written
language) feel very strongly, and on one which US based computing has
historically been very blind to.

=======================================================================
Barry Landy, Head of Systems and Development,
University of Cambridge Computing Service
[email protected] 0223-334713 +44-223-334713

From [email protected] Mon Feb 7 15:43:07 1994
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Date: Mon, 7 Feb 1994 14:35:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Subject: re: 8-bit characters in the header.
To: Barry Landy <[email protected]>
Cc: Klaus Zeuge <[email protected]>, [email protected],
[email protected], [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
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Barry -

It is important to understand that when one waves the banner of
``linguistic and cultural fascism'' one should be sure that one's own house is
in order. 8859 is not universal. It is a regional character set. It may be
recognized outside that region. But -- and this is important -- there are
other regional character sets, and they use an overlapping space with 8859.

I doubt very much that EDCfB@O: displays as anything sensible on your
terminal, yet that is a standard representation of a person's name in that
person's language. It's just not 8859.

This is not a simple problem to solve. If it were simple, we would have
solved it by now!

Americans are not immune from the problem either; they just are closer
to the subset and don't have to worry about losing any letters. Backslash is
yen-sign in Japan. Sharp-sign is the British currency symbol in the UK.
Dollar sign, at-sign, and other familiar characters (to us) are also different
in various national variants of ASCII.

In other words, the lingua franca of Internet email is a *subset* of 7bit
ASCII. To be safe, you have to stay within that subset unless you are
communicating within your region. Even after Pine supports RFC-1522 header
encoding, it'll still be advisable to have an acceptable 7bit representation
of your name along with the 8859 version.

-- Mark --

From [email protected] Mon Feb 7 16:14:55 1994
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Date: Tue, 8 Feb 1994 00:48:19 +0100 (MET)
From: Wojtek Bogusz <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Wojtek Bogusz <[email protected]>
Subject: 3 questions
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9402080047.A2544-0100000@zow13>
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Hello !

I have to say I am not very experienced user of pine. But all are
starting one day :-) So instead of digging in manuals or in archives of
this mailing list I have decided to ask those probably easy questions:

1. When you open your INBOX you have mails sorted from newest (top)
to oldest (bottom) that comes to you. Is there a way to have mails
permanently sorted from oldest (top) to newest, just like in any other
folders ?

2. When pine is running and new mail comes (you can see in on you xbiff,
which checks mailbox once in 10 s.) you have to wait really long time
until pine will realize that there is some thing new in mailbox. It is
very irritating. And most of the time it is quicker to quit pine and
re-run it again. Is there a way to force pine to reopen INBOX ? Or to
customize time beatweane checking mailbox ?

3. Is there a plane to write Xwindows interface to pine ? Or may be there
is written one ... ?

If it is a FAQ or it is well explained on one of the page of the manual
just please give me the pointer :-)

Thanks

Wojtek Bogusz

From [email protected] Mon Feb 7 16:27:26 1994
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Date: Mon, 7 Feb 1994 17:07:12 -0700 (MST)
From: "Paul G. Leo Jr." <[email protected]>
Subject: pine v3.89 hanging when sending mail (solaris version -- home directory on ultrix box)
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I've just noticed this behavior of pine v3.89 ( & v3.88 ). User on a
solaris box, with his/her home directory on an ultrix 4.2a box, fires up
pine, composes a message, and sends the message. The message is sent
(and correctly received to another individual), but -- pine hangs with
the "Sending mail" message. I am unable to break out of pine -- I
basically have to kill the process.

If a solaris user with home directory on solaris box, or ultrix user with
home directory on ultrix box fires up pine, pine works as I would expect,
great...

Paul Leo e-mail [email protected]
University of Utah Medical School [email protected]
Eccles Institute of Human Genetics
Building 533 Room 2100 phone 801-585-3653
Salt Lake City, Utah 84106 fax 801-585-3910

From [email protected] Mon Feb 7 17:24:06 1994
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Date: Mon, 7 Feb 1994 17:05:31 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: 3 questions
To: Wojtek Bogusz <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9402080047.A2544-0100000@zow13>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Wojtek,

You can set the default sort ordering by changing the "sort-key" variable
in your ".pinerc" file. If you press "N" several times at the bottom of
the index or press "^L" in the index, that will force pine to recheck
your inbox. We have no immediate plans to write an X interface for Pine,
but we have heard reports of someone else doing their own conversion.

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Tue, 8 Feb 1994, Wojtek Bogusz wrote:

>
> Hello !
>
> I have to say I am not very experienced user of pine. But all are
> starting one day :-) So instead of digging in manuals or in archives of
> this mailing list I have decided to ask those probably easy questions:
>
> 1. When you open your INBOX you have mails sorted from newest (top)
> to oldest (bottom) that comes to you. Is there a way to have mails
> permanently sorted from oldest (top) to newest, just like in any other
> folders ?
>
> 2. When pine is running and new mail comes (you can see in on you xbiff,
> which checks mailbox once in 10 s.) you have to wait really long time
> until pine will realize that there is some thing new in mailbox. It is
> very irritating. And most of the time it is quicker to quit pine and
> re-run it again. Is there a way to force pine to reopen INBOX ? Or to
> customize time beatweane checking mailbox ?
>
> 3. Is there a plane to write Xwindows interface to pine ? Or may be there
> is written one ... ?
>
> If it is a FAQ or it is well explained on one of the page of the manual
> just please give me the pointer :-)
>
> Thanks
>
> Wojtek Bogusz
>

From [email protected] Tue Feb 8 00:46:53 1994
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Tue, 8 Feb 94 08:02 GMT
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 1994 08:03:21 GMT
From: Laurie Cuthbert <[email protected]>
Subject: re: 8-bit characters in the header.
To: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Cc: Barry Landy <[email protected]>,
Klaus Zeuge <[email protected]>, [email protected],
[email protected], [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Priority: Normal
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

I must say I agree with Mark. I'm quite happy to write "pds" (or even "UK pds")
instead of the pound symbol as I know that character may not display as
intended; also to address one of my German colleagues as Guenther to avoid the
^^
u-umlaut.

The whole point about communication is that we should be certain that it can be
read reliably at the other end wherever that may be, and the only sure way to do
that is to use the lowest common denominator - as Mark says, a subset of 7-bit
ASCII. It would be much worse to have to think about what sort of alphabet the
other end might be using before composing a message.

Regards

Laurie Cuthbert

On Mon, 7 Feb 1994 14:35:00 -0800 (PST) Mark Crispin wrote:

> From: Mark Crispin
> Date: Mon, 7 Feb 1994 14:35:00 -0800 (PST)
> Subject: re: 8-bit characters in the header.
> To: Barry Landy <[email protected]>
> Cc: Klaus Zeuge <[email protected]>, [email protected],
> [email protected], [email protected]
>
> Barry -
>
> It is important to understand that when one waves the banner of
> ``linguistic and cultural fascism'' one should be sure that one's own house is
> in order. 8859 is not universal. It is a regional character set. It may be
> recognized outside that region. But -- and this is important -- there are
> other regional character sets, and they use an overlapping space with 8859.
>
> I doubt very much that EDCfB@O: displays as anything sensible on your
> terminal, yet that is a standard representation of a person's name in that
> person's language. It's just not 8859.
>
> This is not a simple problem to solve. If it were simple, we would have
> solved it by now!
>
> Americans are not immune from the problem either; they just are closer
> to the subset and don't have to worry about losing any letters. Backslash is
> yen-sign in Japan. Sharp-sign is the British currency symbol in the UK.
> Dollar sign, at-sign, and other familiar characters (to us) are also different
> in various national variants of ASCII.
>
> In other words, the lingua franca of Internet email is a *subset* of 7bit
> ASCII. To be safe, you have to stay within that subset unless you are
> communicating within your region. Even after Pine supports RFC-1522 header
> encoding, it'll still be advisable to have an acceptable 7bit representation
> of your name along with the 8859 version.
>
> -- Mark --
>

From [email protected] Tue Feb 8 02:23:01 1994
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Date: Tue, 8 Feb 1994 09:52:35 +0000 (GMT)
From: Philip Hazel <[email protected]>
Subject: re: 8-bit characters in the header.
To: Laurie Cuthbert <[email protected]>
Cc: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>, Barry Landy <[email protected]>,
Klaus Zeuge <[email protected]>, [email protected],
[email protected], [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Length: 797

> I must say I agree with Mark. I'm quite happy to write "pds" (or even "UK pds")
> instead of the pound symbol as I know that character may not display as

Even within one country there are differences. I'm in the UK, but my X
terminal does not show a pound sterling symbol for ASCII character 35 - it
shows a hash (= "sharp sign").

There are standard TLAs for the world's currencies, used by banks,
airlines, etc. I don't know if they are a formal ISO standard. Anyway, for
pounds sterling, you should use GBP, and for U.S. dollars, USD. No doubt
there is a list somewhere on the Internet...

--
Philip Hazel University Computing Service,
[email protected] New Museums Site, Cambridge CB2 3QG,
[email protected] England. Phone: +44 223 334714

From [email protected] Tue Feb 8 02:46:36 1994
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Date: Mon, 07 Feb 1994 19:10:43 -1000
From: "James H. Thompson - HNL" <[email protected]>
Subject: Question on address parsing
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Organization: VeriFone
X-Ps-Qualifiers:
/FONT=Courier-Bold/LINES=66/LEFT_MARGIN=36/CALCULATE/TOP_MARGIN=36/BOTTOM_MARGIN=36
X-Envelope-To: cac.washington.edu!pine-info
X-Vms-To: IN%"[email protected]"
X-Vms-Cc: JIMMY_T
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

When a from line contains a personal name that contains commas
PINE seems to have problems extracting the correct reply address.

Example of a from line that causes problems:

From:"Laura, Veglac, .... lots, of, junk" <[email protected]>

Is there an easy fix for this?

Thanks.

Jim
+------------------------------------+--------------------------------------+
| James H. Thompson | [email protected] (Internet) |
| VeriFone Inc. | uunet!verifone!jimmy_t (UUCP) |
| 100 Kahelu Avenue | 808-623-2911 (Phone) |
| Mililani, HI 96789 | 808-625-3201 (FAX) |
+------------------------------------+--------------------------------------+

From [email protected] Tue Feb 8 04:05:17 1994
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Date: Tue, 8 Feb 94 11:57:20 +0100
From: [email protected] (Christer Lindh)
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To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected],
[email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
In-Reply-To: Laurie Cuthbert's message of Tue, 8 Feb 1994 08:03:21 GMT <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: 8-bit characters in the header.
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

> The whole point about communication is that we should be certain
> that it can be read reliably at the other end wherever that may be,
> and the only sure way to do that is to use the lowest common
> denominator - as Mark says, a subset of 7-bit ASCII. =

Using a common *language* like English when communicating in a forum
like this makes total sense. All words in english use characters
available in ASCII.

But sometimes it is necessary to refer to names, places etc in
countries that use extended alphabets. And why should't people with
capable MIME-readers be able to see then "=C5ke =D6st=E4ng"'s or some Asi=
ans
name like it was intended to be viewed, if at all possible?

And when it can't be viewed properly, the MUA should do it's best.
What's the difference beteen seeing that name as "Ake Ostang", "]ke
\st{ng", "_ke _st_ng", "Eke Vostdng" or whatever your MIME-reader
decides on showing when the charset is missing? All of these are
obfuscations of the guys real name, equally "useless".

In this particular example the first alternative is the best
approximation and could be achieved by using mapping tables between
some character sets. There is existing code and "standard" for this
available in the public domain (forgot wo wrote it though).

But if the name was in Hebrew (8859-9?) or some Asian language it just
can't be mapped properly on a 7bit terminal. So what? If the writer
wanted everyone on the world top see it he should supply an alternate
view (MIME supports that, does Pine?).

In earlies version Pine could map 8bit-chars in the wrong charset to
"_" or something, and that's an option the user that's afraid that odd
8bit characters in an unavailable charset may screw up the terminal,
should use. =

(BTW, are we talking about 8bit in pine-list or in general here? Of
course we should talk in English here but a little non-ASCII doesn't
hurt anyone...)

A big point about MIME IMHO is that the user writing a mail shouldn't
have to worry about the capabilities of the receivers MUA. MIME tags
everything that's in your mail and then it's up to the receivers MUA
to do whatever's appropriate. Using ISO vs Unicode/Asian charsets are
irrelevant, a good MUA should be able to adopt new registred
MIME-charsets and types.

Pine is great in many respects but has some way to go before it
becomes a good MIME-reader for other languages, for example it should
support character mapping tables and viewing attachments in other
charsets by switching the terminals charset (for xterm for
example). The "metamail" package can do things like this.

This discussion went the wrong track somewhere; the original question
was why MIME was not supported in the header when it is so in the
message body? These two types of encodings are described in the same
RFC. The answer was that it WILL be, and we applause that (and eagerly
wait for it).

>> in order. 8859 is not universal. It is a regional character set.
>>
So is ASCII...

--
:: [email protected] :: o/ :: ::=

:: Abalon AB, Stockholm, Sweden :: /@ :: Earth. ::=

:: (MIME compliant) :: /!> :: Love it or leave it. ::=

:: * All disclaimers apply * :: ! climb! :: ::=

From [email protected] Tue Feb 8 05:53:41 1994
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE
From: Klaus Zeuge <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected],
[email protected], [email protected]
In-Reply-To: Klaus Zeuge's message of Mon, 7 Feb 94 02:05:55 +0100 <[email protected]>
Subject: 8-bit characters in the header.

>Date: Mon, 7 Feb 94 02:05:55 +0100
>From: Klaus Zeuge <[email protected]>
>Sender: [email protected]
>X-Phone: (int) +46-18-271064
>X-Fax: (int) +46-18-271031
>
>
>>Date: Sat, 5 Feb 1994 01:52:10 +0100 (MET)
>>From: Michael Wolf <[email protected]>
>>
>>
>>I agree. Klaus may wish to use non ASCII characters only locally. But I
>>also think that we all should try to keep internet messages in *English*.

Ah, I see here a misunderstanding. To me an internet message might be
to the guy in the next room, or to the gal accross te Atlantic ocean.
The guy might understand just english, while the gal prefers swedish.
Whatever. Both are internet messages.

I do agree in english being the lingua franca in todays computer
related world, and that it's wise giving a version of ones written
name using just A to Z -- but I still think it's plus non good NOT
being able to write once native name TOO, especially as the technical
means exist.

Yes, I'd still like to see Pine starting to cope with this.

>>In addition, even many (not all) computer applications should remain in
>>English and restrict themselves to ASCII.

>Why? Arent't you supposed to *use* email among actual (physical) *PEOPLE* ?

Here I clearly over reacted, sorry for my bad handling of english.

From [email protected] Tue Feb 8 09:19:30 1994
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Date: Tue, 8 Feb 1994 09:00:34 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Question on address parsing
To: "James H. Thompson - HNL" <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

This is a known problem with the display routines in the composer. Pine
will still interpret it correctly though. We will fix it as soon as one
of us gets up the nerve to dig into the bowels of Pico ;)

Thanks for the report!

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Mon, 7 Feb 1994, James H. Thompson - HNL wrote:

> When a from line contains a personal name that contains commas
> PINE seems to have problems extracting the correct reply address.
>
> Example of a from line that causes problems:
>
> From:"Laura, Veglac, .... lots, of, junk" <[email protected]>
>
> Is there an easy fix for this?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jim
> +------------------------------------+--------------------------------------+
> | James H. Thompson | [email protected] (Internet) |
> | VeriFone Inc. | uunet!verifone!jimmy_t (UUCP) |
> | 100 Kahelu Avenue | 808-623-2911 (Phone) |
> | Mililani, HI 96789 | 808-625-3201 (FAX) |
> +------------------------------------+--------------------------------------+
>

From [email protected] Tue Feb 8 09:21:15 1994
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id <[email protected]>; Tue, 8 Feb 1994 16:45:27 +0000
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Date: Tue, 8 Feb 1994 16:45:11 +0000 (GMT)
From: Barry Cornelius <[email protected]>
Subject: one rsh left around after Pine finishes
To: Pine Info Mailing List <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89-940130.9402081606.A7719-0100000@hercules>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Length: 1124

We run three variants of Pine 3.89:

sun for computers running SunOS 4.1.2 and SunOS 4.1.3
sol for computers running SunOS 5.2 and SunOS 5.3
hpp for computers running HP-UX 9.01

All uses of Pine on these machines use IMAP to access the user's inbox.
The IMAP daemons run on a SunOS 4.1.3 computer called venus. We are using
the version supplied with Pine 3.89, namely IMAP2bis Version 7.5(72).

When Pine is run, it sets up two rsh processes to venus:

rsh venus exec /etc/rimapd

When Pine 3.89 (or 3.88) is run on a SunOS 5.2 machine, sometimes one of
the two rsh processes still remains after the user has left Pine. This
happens quite often during the day. But I haven't worked out why it
happens on some occasions and not on others.

Is this a known problem? Has anyone else seen this?

--
Barry Cornelius Durham (091 or +44 91) 374 4717
Information Technology Service, IT Service Office: 374 2892
University of Durham, Durham. Fax: 374 3741
DH1 3LE, UK E-mail: [email protected]

From [email protected] Wed Feb 9 10:35:10 1994
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Date: Wed, 9 Feb 1994 15:53:05 +0100
From: Jost Krieger <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Problem with PC-PINE and SLIP
Comments: Hyperbole mail buttons accepted, v3.09.

We have the following problem:

Across SLIP (with the packet driver implementation)
PC-PINE 3.89 seems not to work.

Is this known or intended ?

Thank you
Jost Krieger

--
Jost Krieger, Rechenzentrum der Ruhr-Universitaet Bochum
[email protected]
g=Jost;s=Krieger;ou=ruba;ou=rz;pd=ruhr-uni-bochum;ad=dbp;c=de

From [email protected] Wed Feb 9 17:12:36 1994
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Date: Thu, 10 Feb 1994 01:44:39 +0100 (MET)
From: Michael Wolf <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Michael Wolf <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: 8-bit characters in the header.
To: Klaus Zeuge <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected],
[email protected], [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.1.1.9402092308.A9883-0100000@sun3>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

On Tue, 8 Feb 1994, Klaus Zeuge wrote:

>
> >
> >
> >>Date: Sat, 5 Feb 1994 01:52:10 +0100 (MET)
> >>From: Michael Wolf <[email protected]>
> >>
> >>
> >>I agree. Klaus may wish to use non ASCII characters only locally. But I
> >>also think that we all should try to keep internet messages in *English*.
>
> Ah, I see here a misunderstanding. To me an internet message might be
> to the guy in the next room, or to the gal accross te Atlantic ocean.
> The guy might understand just english, while the gal prefers swedish.
> Whatever. Both are internet messages.

Perhaps I should have said "international messages", or "messages to an
international audience".

>
> I do agree in english being the lingua franca in todays computer
> related world, and that it's wise giving a version of ones written
> name using just A to Z -- but I still think it's plus non good NOT
> being able to write once native name TOO, especially as the technical
> means exist.
>
> Yes, I'd still like to see Pine starting to cope with this.

Wishing to display your name in your language via e-mail to people that
understand your language is legitimate. But I would use non-ASCII only for
well defined targets and with care. Certainly an international mailing
list or an international news group would not be an adequate audience.
Receiving a name in a Japanese font, for example, would make no sense for
me, even if my computer would be able to display it correctly.

:-)
Michael

From [email protected] Wed Feb 9 22:13:38 1994
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Date: Thu, 10 Feb 1994 16:49:16 +1000 (EET)
From: Eddie Leonardi <[email protected]>
Subject: Various
To: Pine-info <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Hi!

I have two quick questions about Pine. If anyone can help please let
[email protected] know.

1. How do you switch off the debug mode in pine i.e. so that debug files
are not printed.

2. When using the basic unix mail command it is possible to put it into
verbose mode so that you can see it sending the mail and if it actually
got there or not. Is it possible to do the same thing in pine? I.e.
put it in a verbose mode?

Thanks
Eddie

*--------------------------------------------------------*
| Associate Professor Eddie Leonardi |
| School of Mechanical and Manufacturing Engineering |
| The University of New South Wales |
| P.O. Box 1, Kensington, N.S.W., AUSTRALIA 2033 |
| |
| E-mail: [email protected] ; Fax: (+61 2) 663 1222 |
| Phone: Work: (+61 2) 697 4252 ; Home: (+61 2) 646 2568 |
*--------------------------------------------------------*

From [email protected] Wed Feb 9 23:17:25 1994
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Date: Wed, 9 Feb 1994 22:49:19 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Various
To: Eddie Leonardi <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine-info <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Eddie,

To switch off debugging, use the -d0 command line option. Pine does not
yet have a verbose send mode, but we are considering making it an option.

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Thu, 10 Feb 1994, Eddie Leonardi wrote:

> Hi!
>
> I have two quick questions about Pine. If anyone can help please let
> [email protected] know.
>
> 1. How do you switch off the debug mode in pine i.e. so that debug files
> are not printed.
>
> 2. When using the basic unix mail command it is possible to put it into
> verbose mode so that you can see it sending the mail and if it actually
> got there or not. Is it possible to do the same thing in pine? I.e.
> put it in a verbose mode?
>
>
> Thanks
> Eddie
>
> *--------------------------------------------------------*
> | Associate Professor Eddie Leonardi |
> | School of Mechanical and Manufacturing Engineering |
> | The University of New South Wales |
> | P.O. Box 1, Kensington, N.S.W., AUSTRALIA 2033 |
> | |
> | E-mail: [email protected] ; Fax: (+61 2) 663 1222 |
> | Phone: Work: (+61 2) 697 4252 ; Home: (+61 2) 646 2568 |
> *--------------------------------------------------------*
>

From [email protected] Thu Feb 10 03:01:15 1994
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Date: Thu, 10 Feb 1994 10:42:51 +0000 (GMT)
From: David Brownlee <[email protected]>
Subject: Verbose send mode
To: Pine-Info Maillist <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9402101014.A1566-0100000@Hove>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Could I add a vote for this to be an option!

David

[email protected]. Network Analyst. Postmaster. Hostmaster.
<_.-^-._> Telephone: (+44) 71 477 8000 Ext:3757. <_.-^-._>
Snailmail:E308, City University, Northampton Sq, Islington, London EC1V 0HB.

From [email protected] Thu Feb 10 06:05:41 1994
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Date: Thu, 10 Feb 1994 13:40:55 +0000 (GMT)
From: Philip Hazel <[email protected]>
Subject: Replying without attachments
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Length: 797

I received a message with a MIME attachment, to which I wanted to reply.
Having been caught once before, I checked carefully before sending the
reply, and noticed that Pine 3.89 had added the attachment to the reply,
which doesn't seem right to me. One would rarely want to send an attachment
back to its sender, I feel.

However, I was able to delete the attachment before sending the message,
which saved some embarrassment, but the recipient tells me that the message
was nevertheless sent as MIME MULTIPART/Mixed, despite having no
attachments. This must be a minor bug...

Regards,
Philip

--
Philip Hazel University Computing Service,
[email protected] New Museums Site, Cambridge CB2 3QG,
[email protected] England. Phone: +44 223 334714

From [email protected] Thu Feb 10 10:34:48 1994
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Date: Thu, 10 Feb 1994 10:09:09 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Replying without attachments
To: Philip Hazel <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Yes, this is a known problem. Thanks for the report!

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Thu, 10 Feb 1994, Philip Hazel wrote:

> I received a message with a MIME attachment, to which I wanted to reply.
> Having been caught once before, I checked carefully before sending the
> reply, and noticed that Pine 3.89 had added the attachment to the reply,
> which doesn't seem right to me. One would rarely want to send an attachment
> back to its sender, I feel.
>
> However, I was able to delete the attachment before sending the message,
> which saved some embarrassment, but the recipient tells me that the message
> was nevertheless sent as MIME MULTIPART/Mixed, despite having no
> attachments. This must be a minor bug...
>
> Regards,
> Philip
>
> --
> Philip Hazel University Computing Service,
> [email protected] New Museums Site, Cambridge CB2 3QG,
> [email protected] England. Phone: +44 223 334714
>
>

From [email protected] Thu Feb 10 11:04:54 1994
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Date: Thu, 10 Feb 1994 20:36:53 +0300 (EETDST)
From: Ian Leiman <[email protected]>
Subject: Problems starting pine from HP Vue Frontpanel and menus
To: Pine Info <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

This is a problem that has bothered me a long time, but I haven't had
any luck in finding a nice solution. Perhaps someone in this mailing
list has figured it out??

We use HP9000/730 hosts with HP/UX 9.01 and from 700/RX X-terminals
configured to use HP-Vue. PINE does not of course work properly with
the default HpTerm terminal windows, you must use Xterm. In HpTerm
cursors keys won't work etc. weird things happen. Modifying ttyin.c
would surely fix this, but that's not my idea of having fun :-)

Even when you use xterm, you must start pine from a shell. Starting pine
by using 'xterm -e pine', which starts pine directly without invoking any
shell first, does not work properly. Something goes wrong with the
tty-driver and the screen becomes messy. This would work however:
'xterm -e csh -c pine'

but executing the shell in between is really a waste of CPU time and system
resources. The shell shouldn't really be needed. Then you could of course
make a shell script (say eg. 'exec.pine') that contains
#!/bin/csh
exec pine

executed by 'xterm -e exec.pine', to get rid of the shell after pine starts.
This isn't very elegant either. Also, pine won't start from tcsh or zsh
properly, you must use csh. This is the only program that I know of, that
behaves like this. Answer may be found from ttyout.c's 2000 lines of code,
or maybe it's HPs fault?

The standard way to put something like pine into Vue Workspace Menu is
modifying your ~/.vue/vuewmrc (or system-wide '/usr/vue/config/sys.vuewmrc')
in the following manner:

Menu VueRootMenu
{
"Workspace Menu" f.title
pine _P Meta<key>F11 f.exec "xterm -e pine"
...etc...
}

Can somebody explain why doesn't this work, and I really must use the ugly:
pine _P Meta<key>F11 f.exec "xterm -e csh -c pine"

Equivalently, adding PINE to Front Panel goes like this. To a file called
'/usr/vue/config/panels/fp.mail' you add (included in vuewmrc):
CONTROL Pine
{
TYPE button
IMAGE mail
LABEL "Pine"
PUSH_ACTION f.exec "xterm -e /usr/local/bin/pine"
}
..etc...
BOX Bottom
{
TYPE secondary
CONTROL Pine
}
..

which of course doesn't work, you must make it
PUSH_ACTION f.exec "xterm -e /bin/csh -c /usr/local/bin/pine"

************************
Note, that you can also replace PINE as your MAILER action, which means that
you could have PINE start from the standard mail button of Front Panel. You
need a file called '/usr/vue/config/types/pine.vf', that contains:
ACTION Pine
DESCRIPTION Pine mailer action
TYPE COMMAND
EXEC-STRING /usr/local/bin/pine
WINDOW-TYPE TERMINAL
END

then in your '~/.vue/types/user-prefs.vf' OR '/usr/vue/types/user-prefs.vf':

# To use a mailer other than elm, define an action for your mailer and
# substitute it for Elm.
ACTION Mailer
TYPE MAP Pine
END

The problem here is that Vue absolutely refuses to use Xterm disregarding
that I have defined personally and system-wide TERMINAL action as Xterm.
Vue persistently uses Hpterm and Pine thus won't work. A less elegant
work-around is to have a script start the xterm, which would start the
shell and then pine. But that's too desperate...

--
Ian Leiman, M.Sc. phone +358 0 5104 4453, fax +358 0 5104 4764

From [email protected] Thu Feb 10 11:47:12 1994
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Date: Thu, 10 Feb 1994 12:19:53 -0700
From: Daniel Simmons <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Problems starting pine from HP Vue Frontpanel and menus
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Organization: Idaho State University, Pocatello
Cc:

In article <[email protected]> you write:
>We use HP9000/730 hosts with HP/UX 9.01 and from 700/RX X-terminals
>configured to use HP-Vue. PINE does not of course work properly with
>the default HpTerm terminal windows, you must use Xterm. In HpTerm
>cursors keys won't work etc. weird things happen. Modifying ttyin.c
>would surely fix this, but that's not my idea of having fun :-)

This doesn't "exactly" answer your question, but...

I have a patch for pine version 3.87 (I haven't updated it to 3.89 yet)
which makes it work properly in an hpterm (I had to because a number of our
users actually use hp dumb terminals--not under x windows). There are
still a few small problems, but they are basically little reverse video
buglets that don't amount to much (99% of everything works correctly).

I've also talked with the pine maintainers about some more hardcore changes
to their terminal i/o library which would fix the rest of the problems. We
may work together to integrate the changes in some future release of pine.

Anyway, if you want the patch, let me know.

Danny
--
Daniel Simmons electronic mail : [email protected]
Idaho State University voice mail : (208) 236-3199
Computer Center snail mail : Box 8037, Pocatello

From [email protected] Thu Feb 10 12:29:39 1994
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Date: Thu, 10 Feb 1994 12:05:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Burzin Engineer <[email protected]>
Subject:
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9402101152.H8921-0100000@tecsrv12>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

A few questions:
(I moved from elm to pine, my questions might reflect that)

1. anyway in pine for having a local signature file v/s remote signature
file?

2. anyway of saving outgoing message by to-field default and if folder
does not exist then put it in sent-mail?

3. How do you stop pine from adding the domainname to internal messages.
i.e. If I leave it blank in .pinerc then it recognizes internal mail and
expands userid to username BUT my external mail does not have my correct
return address, so people cannot reply back to me. If I add the domainname
it appends it to internal addresses also which I would prefer not to.
Any solutions?

Thanks

--
Burzin N. Engineer
Teradata Database Development Center | Phone (310) 524-7513
Decision Enabling Systems Division | Fax (310) 524-5511
AT&T Global Information Solutions | E-Mail [email protected]

From [email protected] Thu Feb 10 13:15:47 1994
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From: Burzin Engineer <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <571428*@su-kom.dsv.su.se>
To: "Pine mailer discussions group (pine-infoEcac.washington.edu)" <[email protected]>,
Pine Info <[email protected]>

From [email protected] Thu Feb 10 14:08:20 1994
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Date: Thu, 10 Feb 1994 16:42:22 -0500 (EST)
From: Jeff Traigle <[email protected]>
Subject: alias conversions
To: Pine Information <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Does anybody happen to have conversion tools already written? I'm
attempting to migrate one of my sites to IMAP, but I can see that I might
meet with some resistence since the aliases aren't in compatible formats.
Particular conversions would need to be from .mailrc and from elm
formats.

--
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Jeff Traigle |
| Systems Administrator |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| University of Michigan University of Michigan |
| College of Pharmacy Biophysics Research Division |
| Pharmacy Building, Room 1033 Chemistry Building, Room 3080 |
| Ann Arbor MI 48109 Ann Arbor MI 48109 |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| [email protected] Pager: (313) 617-8793 |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From [email protected] Thu Feb 10 16:34:40 1994
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Date: Thu, 10 Feb 1994 16:08:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Pete Kaplan <[email protected]>
Subject: Word wrap
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

How do I keep pico from word wrapping? Occasionally, there is a need to
write a unix command that must be on a continued line.

Peter Kaplan Sys Adm
Cal. St. Univ. Chanc. Office
(310) 985-9446

From [email protected] Thu Feb 10 19:43:42 1994
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Date: Thu, 10 Feb 1994 19:12:09 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Word wrap
To: Pete Kaplan <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

The "-w" command line option will disable word-wrap in Pico.

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Thu, 10 Feb 1994, Pete Kaplan wrote:

> How do I keep pico from word wrapping? Occasionally, there is a need to
> write a unix command that must be on a continued line.
>
> Peter Kaplan Sys Adm
> Cal. St. Univ. Chanc. Office
> (310) 985-9446
>

From [email protected] Fri Feb 11 01:37:15 1994
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id <[email protected]>; Fri, 11 Feb 1994 09:22:08 +0000
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 1994 09:19:38 +0000 (GMT)
From: Terry Campton Analyst/Programmer NDM <[email protected]>
Subject: Running Pine under AIX v 3.2
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Dear Pine Team,

We seem to have a problem running pine under AIX v 3.2, I cannot run pine
with any options, I can't even do a -conf, to see what is what.

We are using pine 3.89 the m/c is an IBM RS600 Model 320 running AIX
v3.2. We are also using pine 3.89 on a DEC 5000/240 running ULTRIX v 4.3
and pine is running fine there, so we would like to get the IBM up to
scratch.

Any suggestions ?

Terry Campton
University Data Centre
University of Oxford
John Radcliffe Hospital
Oxford

From [email protected] Fri Feb 11 01:39:41 1994
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Date: Fri, 11 Feb 1994 09:23:10 +0000 (GMT)
From: Philip Hazel <[email protected]>
Subject: Commas
To: maillist Pine <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Length: 364

Why won't pine accept commas in file names? They are relatively common in
file names on Unix... Is there a quoting mechanism that I have overlooked?

Regards,
Philip

--
Philip Hazel University Computing Service,
[email protected] New Museums Site, Cambridge CB2 3QG,
[email protected] England. Phone: +44 223 334714

From [email protected] Fri Feb 11 01:55:52 1994
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Date: Fri, 11 Feb 94 10:39:33 +0100
From: [email protected] (Martin Spohn)
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: user-id for UNIX-Pine

Hello all,

is there an equivalent for the PC-PINE variable user-id in UNIX-Pine?

Thanks

Martin Spohn
Zentrum fuer Datenverarbeitung Telefon: +49 7071 29-6970 (Fax: -5912)
Abteilung Netze E-Mail:
Universitaet Tuebingen SMTP: [email protected]
Brunnenstrasse 27 X.400: C=de;A=d400;P=uni-tuebingen;O=zdv;S=spohn
D-72074 Tuebingen

From [email protected] Fri Feb 11 03:24:04 1994
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Fri, 11 Feb 1994 11:02:16 +0000
Subject: imapd version with pine 3.89
To: [email protected]
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 1994 11:02:15 +0000 (GMT)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Mime-Version: 1.0
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From: Alan Thew <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <"liverbird..102:11.01.94.11.02.17"@liverbird.liverpool.ac.uk>

The source says that it's version 7.5(72). How does this correspond
to the imapd version number listed on the ftp site e.g. 3.1 ?

Thanks

--
Alan Thew
[email protected] ...!uknet!liv!alan.thew Tel: +44 51 794-3735
University of Liverpool, Computing Services Fax: +44 51 794-3759

From [email protected] Fri Feb 11 05:04:40 1994
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To: [email protected]
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 94 14:46:20 GMT+5:30
Generate-Delivery-Report:
From: SANJEEV SINGH <[email protected]>

Hello! pine group

How can I execute *ftp* command from message body (or some
where else ? ) of pine to fetch data from remote M/C in
case message body is large enough.

can someone help me ?

thanx in advance.

-sanjeev

From [email protected] Fri Feb 11 05:15:31 1994
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Date: Fri, 11 Feb 1994 07:58:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Paul Ribeiro <[email protected]>
Subject: Spool Cleanup
To: Info Pine <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

This isn't a pine question but I'm interested in how mail managers
deal with end of semester cleanups and people who love to keep all
their mail in their inbox. Do you run a nightly job to remove mail
that is more than xx days old?
many thanks,
/P

From [email protected] Fri Feb 11 06:40:40 1994
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Date: Fri, 11 Feb 94 08:15:12 -0600
From: Joel Ness <[email protected]>
To: Jeff Traigle <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: alias conversions
Cc: Pine Information <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: Your message
<[email protected]> of Thu, 10 Feb 1994
16:42:22 -0500 (EST)
Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=US-ASCII

> Does anybody happen to have conversion tools already
> written? I'm attempting to migrate one of my sites to
> IMAP, but I can see that I might meet with some
> resistence since the aliases aren't in compatible
> formats. Particular conversions would need to be from
> .mailrc and from elm formats.
>
> --
> +---------------------------------------------------------
> --------------------+
> | Jeff Traigle
> |

Here's a little script one of our UNIX folks worked up to handle conversion of
elm aliases to pine alias form (pretty simple syntax substitution). If you
execute it multiple times it will keep adding another set of your elm aliases to
your pine addressbook, but Pine seems to handle that all right.

#!/bin/csh
#!/bin/csh -vx
# convert elm aliases.text to pine addressbook
# Greg Gustafson
# UMD Information Services
# January 1993
#
if -r $HOME/.elm/aliases.text then
if -e $HOME/.addressbook then
set n=1
while (-e $HOME/.addressbook$n)
@ n++
end
mv $HOME/.addressbook $HOME/.addressbook$n
endif
ex - $HOME/.elm/aliases.text << ---
%s/ = / /
%s/ = / (
%s/\$/)/
:w $HOME/.addressbook
---
set n=`cat $HOME/.addressbook | wc -l`
echo $n elm aliases converted to pine addresses
else
echo no Elm aliases found
endif

_________________________
Joel Ness
UMD Information Services
[email protected]
(218) 726-8841

From [email protected] Fri Feb 11 07:06:45 1994
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Date: Fri, 11 Feb 1994 14:10:45 +0000 (GMT)
From: The PenMaster <[email protected]>
Subject: Vt100 & ANSI codes
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9402111450.B8707-0100000@teaching6>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Hwi there,
Really sorry to post a non-Pine question (sort of), but no-one on
the Usenet seems to be willing to help me...

I need some documentation on VT100 and ANSI escape codes
including curur positioning and colours, etc, and would be very grateful
if someone could mail me any info that they have. Thanks.

Secondly; Pine and ANSI. Is there any way of getting Pine to
display messages with something like More, for example so that messages
including cursor postioning information could be displyed correctly (e.g.
for ANSI animations). I know that you can save out the message, stip off
the headers and then view it with More, but it would be nice to be able
to do it all from within Pine...

Charuuba!

David Edwards
_ _
==========////====================================================
/ //// David Edwards: Welcome to the real world... \
|| _ _ //// send mail to: ||
|| \\\\ //// edwards%[email protected] ||
\ \\\X/// or [email protected] /
====\XXX/=========================================================

From [email protected] Fri Feb 11 07:44:02 1994
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Date: Fri, 11 Feb 1994 10:16:05 -0500 (EST)
From: Adam J Weitzman <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Adam J Weitzman <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Commas
To: Pine Mailing List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

On Fri, 11 Feb 1994, Philip Hazel wrote:

> Why won't pine accept commas in file names? They are relatively common in
> file names on Unix... Is there a quoting mechanism that I have overlooked?

This is news to me. I have been around UNIX for almost 8 years and I have
maybe once or twice only ever seen a filename with a comma in it. But if
you really need to include it, you can always go "To files" after the
"Read File" part and bring it in that way.

I don't know why Pine won't let you tyoe it in, though.

- Adam J Weitzman
INDIVIDUAL, Inc.
[email protected]

From [email protected] Fri Feb 11 08:55:03 1994
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Date: Fri, 11 Feb 1994 08:34:44 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Running Pine under AIX v 3.2
To: Terry Campton Analyst/Programmer NDM <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Did you compile Pine from the source distribution or are you using our
pre-compiled binaries? A number of AIX 3.2 sites have had trouble
building from source, but had no trouble with the pre-compiled version.
We would like to isolate the problem, but so far have not been able to get
access to any of the problem systems...

The pre-compiled binaries are available from ftp.cac.washington.edu in the
mail/unix-bin directory.

Thanks for the report!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Fri, 11 Feb 1994, Terry Campton Analyst/Programmer NDM wrote:

> Dear Pine Team,
>
> We seem to have a problem running pine under AIX v 3.2, I cannot run pine
> with any options, I can't even do a -conf, to see what is what.
>
> We are using pine 3.89 the m/c is an IBM RS600 Model 320 running AIX
> v3.2. We are also using pine 3.89 on a DEC 5000/240 running ULTRIX v 4.3
> and pine is running fine there, so we would like to get the IBM up to
> scratch.
>
> Any suggestions ?
>
>
> Terry Campton
> University Data Centre
> University of Oxford
> John Radcliffe Hospital
> Oxford

From [email protected] Fri Feb 11 08:57:05 1994
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Date: Fri, 11 Feb 1994 08:37:35 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: user-id for UNIX-Pine
To: Martin Spohn <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Martin,

No. We are considering adding it or something similar though. In the
mean time, the next version of Pine (due late spring) will include the
Reply-To: header, which might help solve your problem.

Thanks for the request!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Fri, 11 Feb 1994, Martin Spohn wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> is there an equivalent for the PC-PINE variable user-id in UNIX-Pine?
>
> Thanks
>
> Martin Spohn
> Zentrum fuer Datenverarbeitung Telefon: +49 7071 29-6970 (Fax: -5912)
> Abteilung Netze E-Mail:
> Universitaet Tuebingen SMTP: [email protected]
> Brunnenstrasse 27 X.400: C=de;A=d400;P=uni-tuebingen;O=zdv;S=spohn
> D-72074 Tuebingen

From [email protected] Fri Feb 11 09:27:08 1994
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Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 94 15:00:48 PST
From: [email protected]
Subject: Pine on SCO UNIX System V/386, Release 3.2
To: [email protected]
Reply-To: [email protected]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII

Hi folks,

Could you inform me in how far Pine is usable on a
SCO UNIX System. From a pine-ports document that
comes with Version 3.87 of Pine, I understand that
some work has been done by Ken Bobey. By the way,
do you have his e-mail address?

I would also like to know whether there is a binary
version of pine for SCO Unix 3.2, version 4.2.
( I am without a compiler on my system.)

Before hand thanks for your help

Andries Algera
ITU Americas Office
Brasilia - Brazil
ph: +5561 212 7377
fax: +5561 226 5061
Internet: [email protected]

From [email protected] Fri Feb 11 09:28:40 1994
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Date: Fri, 11 Feb 1994 09:57:30 -0600 (MDT)
From: Eldon Cutlip <[email protected]>
Subject: Please Unsubscribe me
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I tried to unsubscribe and got the response that there was no pine-info
list. Please unsubcribe me. Thanks.

From [email protected] Fri Feb 11 10:11:02 1994
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id AA15813; Fri, 11 Feb 94 11:48:21 -0600
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 1994 11:39:04 -0600 (CST)
From: "Isaias Callejas Mancilla." <[email protected]>
Reply-To: "Isaias Callejas Mancilla." <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Spool Cleanup
To: Paul Ribeiro <[email protected]>
Cc: Info Pine <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

On Fri, 11 Feb 1994, Paul Ribeiro wrote:

> This isn't a pine question but I'm interested in how mail managers
> deal with end of semester cleanups and people who love to keep all
> their mail in their inbox. Do you run a nightly job to remove mail
> that is more than xx days old?
> many thanks,
> /P
>
Hi Paul,
type "man find" on your UNIX System and you can use instructions
as:

find /usr/spool/mail -atime +7 -exec rm {} \;

and found solution to you problem..

NOTE: Remember as good administrator to back before of delete...

Later..

/#### E. Isaias Callejas M.
/# /######## Electronic Mail System Administration
/## /########## Coordination of Computing Services
### /## ### Academic Computing, National University of Mexico
### ######### ### ==================================================
### ##/ ### University City, Mexico D.F.
##########/ ##/ E-mail : [email protected]
########/ #/ Phone : (5)6 22 85 22 << MIME is Welcome!!! >>
####/

From [email protected] Fri Feb 11 10:56:55 1994
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id AA07952; Fri, 11 Feb 94 12:34:50 CST
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 1994 12:34:49 -0600 (CST)
From: Matt Simmons <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Commas
To: Adam J Weitzman <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Mailing List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Fri, 11 Feb 1994, Adam J Weitzman wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Feb 1994, Philip Hazel wrote:
> > Why won't pine accept commas in file names? They are relatively common in
> > file names on Unix... Is there a quoting mechanism that I have overlooked?
> This is news to me. I have been around UNIX for almost 8 years and I have
> maybe once or twice only ever seen a filename with a comma in it. But if
Have you/do you use RCS?

> you really need to include it, you can always go "To files" after the
> "Read File" part and bring it in that way.
> I don't know why Pine won't let you tyoe it in, though.
Because pine uses the , as a delimeter between files to be included.
Thus it thinks input.c,v (the RCS file for input.c) is really a request
to include input.c and v.

Devoted _n______________________________________________ _________________
Teri / \|[]|"" \ |[]| |[]| |[]| |[]| / || \ |[]| |[]|
Polo ,(_____| |()_()\___| |___| |___| |___| |___/ || \___| |___| |
Fan <_______|__|_(_)_____|__|___|__|___|__|___|__|______||______|__|___|__|
=========\ Walt Disney World Monorail System ||
LCA _____\________________________________________________||_________________
__/ This highway's in perfect shape. Quick! Thank god I'm not a
_/ Break it so we can 'fix' it! -- IDOT Motto F. I. P. =)

From [email protected] Fri Feb 11 11:33:36 1994
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Date: Fri, 11 Feb 1994 11:11:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: imapd version with pine 3.89
To: Alan Thew <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <"liverbird..102:11.01.94.11.02.17"@liverbird.liverpool.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Fri, 11 Feb 1994, Alan Thew wrote:
> The source says that it's version 7.5(72). How does this correspond
> to the imapd version number listed on the ftp site e.g. 3.1 ?

The 3.1 version number is the version of the IMAP toolkit, which includes
many components besides imapd, each with its own version number. 3.1 is
the last frozen release; 3.2 is the current development version (and
changes regularly).

From [email protected] Fri Feb 11 11:37:40 1994
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From: Arnt Gulbrandsen <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Spool Cleanup
To: [email protected]
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 1994 20:09:21 +0100 (MET)
Cc: [email protected], [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]> from "Isaias Callejas Mancilla." at Feb 11, 94 11:39:04 am
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> > Do you run a nightly job to remove mail
> > that is more than xx days old?
>
> find /usr/spool/mail -atime +7 -exec rm {} \;
>
> and found solution to you problem..

And delete even new messages? Not a good idea. Ask archie about a
program called mailclean, that's a better solution.

--Arnt

From [email protected] Fri Feb 11 12:29:02 1994
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Date: Fri, 11 Feb 94 14:10:06 CST
From: "John Ladwig" <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
To: Matt Simmons <[email protected]>
Cc: Adam J Weitzman <[email protected]>,
Pine Mailing List <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Commas
In-Reply-To: Matt Simmons's message <[email protected]> of 11 February 1994
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>

>>>>> On Fri, 11 Feb 1994 12:34:49 -0600 (CST), Matt Simmons <[email protected]> said:

Matt> On Fri, 11 Feb 1994, Adam J Weitzman wrote:
>> On Fri, 11 Feb 1994, Philip Hazel wrote:
>> > Why won't pine accept commas in file names?

Matt> Have you/do you use RCS?

*There's* the right question...

>> I don't know why Pine won't let you type it in, though.

Matt> Because pine uses the , as a delimeter between files to be included.
Matt> Thus it thinks input.c,v (the RCS file for input.c) is really a request
Matt> to include input.c and v.

Mmm... Seems a reasonable choice for those *not* used to *NIX, since
it follows mailer recipient semantics, but shell semantics would
suggest whitespace as a delimiter.

What thinkest thou, O Pine developers?

-jml

From [email protected] Fri Feb 11 13:31:06 1994
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Date: Fri, 11 Feb 1994 15:14:08 -0600 (CST)
From: Chris Garrigues <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Commas
To: John Ladwig <[email protected]>
Cc: Matt Simmons <[email protected]>,
Adam J Weitzman <[email protected]>,
Pine Mailing List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Fri, 11 Feb 1994, John Ladwig wrote:
> >>>>> On Fri, 11 Feb 1994 12:34:49 -0600 (CST), Matt Simmons <[email protected]> said:
> Mmm... Seems a reasonable choice for those *not* used to *NIX, since
> it follows mailer recipient semantics, but shell semantics would
> suggest whitespace as a delimiter.
>
> What thinkest thou, O Pine developers?

I'm not a pine developer, but my vote is to require the comma be
quoted, probably with a backslash. This way non-Unix geeks won't get
screwed by trying to use a comma in a place that is perfectly
reasonable, and Unix geeks will be able to figure out that a backslash
is a good idea.

Chris

--
Chris Garrigues (MIME capable) [email protected]
Microelectronics and Computer Technology Corporation +1 512 338 3328
3500 West Balcones Center Drive Fax +1 512 338 3838
Austin, TX 78759-6509
USA

From [email protected] Fri Feb 11 13:42:54 1994
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Date: Fri, 11 Feb 1994 15:24:53 -0600 (CST)
From: Chris Garrigues <[email protected]>
Subject: Pico is not quite emacs
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Am I the only one who has a problem with editors which are *almost*
emacs, but not quite?

One problem I have with pine is that it's very common for me to ^P into a
message that I'm replying to and insert text in the middle. I always
want to use ^O for this because I've been doing it that way for ten
years. Needless to say, when I type ^O, I am surprised every time.

Also, as I was editing the above paragraph, three (count them) three
times, I tried to use ^K as if I were in emacs. Was there a decision
made that the added difficutly of typing ^A^K over simply ^K was
sufficient to warrant disallowing the functionality of emacs's ^K? The
minor frustration I feel every time I type ^K expands when I try to clean
up by typing ^Y.

And, as long as I'm picking nits, I'd like ^L to center the current line
rather than do a simple refresh.

Any thoughts?

Chris

--
Chris Garrigues (MIME capable) [email protected]
Microelectronics and Computer Technology Corporation +1 512 338 3328
3500 West Balcones Center Drive Fax +1 512 338 3838
Austin, TX 78759-6509
USA

From [email protected] Fri Feb 11 15:21:50 1994
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To: [email protected]
Path: not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Mark Delany)
Newsgroups: apana.lists.mail.pine
Subject: Re: Pico is not quite emacs
Date: 12 Feb 1994 10:06:37 +1100
Organization: APANA regional feed site - Melbourne, Australia.
Lines: 15
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>

In <[email protected]> [email protected] (Chris Garrigues) writes:

>Am I the only one who has a problem with editors which are *almost*
>emacs, but not quite?

I tend to agree with the original poster. Though I suspect that
changing it now is way too late as you'll hit all those pico users.

Certainly I get hit by ^K and ^Y an awful lot, especially as I use
pico for small mails and switch to emacs for larger ones.

Oh well.

M.

From [email protected] Fri Feb 11 15:28:55 1994
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Date: Fri, 11 Feb 1994 15:10:58 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: FAQ Available
To: Sherry Lake <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Not yet, but we are working on one. Thanks for the request!

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Mon, 10 Jan 1994, Sherry Lake wrote:

> Is there a FAQ available for pine?
>
> Thanks
>
> -----
> Sherry H. Lake [email protected]
> Electronic Mail Consultant
> George Mason University
>

From [email protected] Fri Feb 11 16:27:53 1994
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Date: Fri, 11 Feb 1994 16:11:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pico is not quite emacs
To: Chris Garrigues <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Chris,
As a part-time emacs user, I am sympathetic to your frustration.
Remember, however, that emacs has a semi-infinite number of commands that
can be bound to a large set of keystrokes (because of ESCape... or the
META key, if there are any of those keyboards still around.)

In Pico we needed to live within the constraint of single control-key
commands. We couldn't even use ESCape as an escape option, because we
wanted arrow keys to work.

We actually started with ^K being like emacs, but feedback from some of
our early users suggested that this was not intuitively obvious behavior
for our (original) target audience. So we changed. It has occurred to
some of us that we could add an option that restored emacs-style Ctl-K
behavior, and this is on the list. Ctl-O and Ctl-Y are much more
difficult to deal with, because we just don't have sufficient key space.

I suspect we could reduce your cognitive dissonance a bit by making it
easier for emacs to be your default editor (e.g. having cursor motion
into the body of the message trigger the alternate editor.) That way
you'd only have to re-map your fingers when in the message header :)
There are some issues in trying to do this, but we will be investigating
the feasibility.

We welcome all suggestions, save perhaps "Make all keybindings
user-configurable..."

-teg

On Fri, 11 Feb 1994, Chris Garrigues wrote:

> Am I the only one who has a problem with editors which are *almost*
> emacs, but not quite?
>
> One problem I have with pine is that it's very common for me to ^P into a
> message that I'm replying to and insert text in the middle. I always
> want to use ^O for this because I've been doing it that way for ten
> years. Needless to say, when I type ^O, I am surprised every time.
>
> Also, as I was editing the above paragraph, three (count them) three
> times, I tried to use ^K as if I were in emacs. Was there a decision
> made that the added difficutly of typing ^A^K over simply ^K was
> sufficient to warrant disallowing the functionality of emacs's ^K? The
> minor frustration I feel every time I type ^K expands when I try to clean
> up by typing ^Y.
>
> And, as long as I'm picking nits, I'd like ^L to center the current line
> rather than do a simple refresh.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Chris
>
>
> --
> Chris Garrigues (MIME capable) [email protected]
> Microelectronics and Computer Technology Corporation +1 512 338 3328
> 3500 West Balcones Center Drive Fax +1 512 338 3838
> Austin, TX 78759-6509
> USA
>
>

From [email protected] Sat Feb 12 22:22:29 1994
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Date: Sat, 12 Feb 1994 21:54:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Henry Kuo <[email protected]>
Subject: Compile Problem on Dynix V3.2.0
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Hi! Everyone:

I got some compile problem on Dynix V3.2.0. I don't know how to correct
them. I hope I can get some help! Thanks!!

----------------------------------------------------

make args are "CC=cc"

Making c-client library and mtest
`mtest' is up to date.

Making Imapd
cd ../c-client;make
`mtest' is up to date.
cc -I../c-client `cat ../c-client/CFLAGS` -o imapd imapd.o ../c-client/c-client.a `cat ../c-client/LDFLAGS`

Making Pico

Making Pine.
cc -DDYN -O -c addrbook.c &13946
cc -DDYN -O -c addrutil.c &13948
cc -DDYN -O -c adrbklib.c &13950

13948: *** Error code 1

13946: *** Error code 1

13950: *** Error code 1

Links to executables are in bin directory:
size: bin/pine not found
text data bss dec hex
221184 32768 13364 267316 41434 bin/mtest
212992 32768 21524 267284 41414 bin/imapd
131072 28672 20668 180412 2c0bc bin/pico
Done

From [email protected] Sat Feb 12 23:06:57 1994
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Date: Sat, 12 Feb 1994 22:43:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: PC Pine under Windows
To: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine User Group <[email protected]>,
Pine Mission Control <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <PCPine_p.3.89.9402011322.A10525-0100000@[134.225.33.95]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

John,
Apologies for the delay in responding.

Does this happen when PC-Pine is in the foreground, or only when it is in
the background?

-teg

On Tue, 1 Feb 1994, John Stumbles wrote:

> If I leave PC Pine (3.89) running under MS Windows, when I return to it
> after a while I get the message [IMAP connection broken in reply].
>
> Is this a bug?
>
> I'm not sure what's happening - the 'in reply' bit of the error messsage
> is a bit confusing (in reply to what?).
>
>
> John Stumbles [email protected]
> University of Reading 0734 318435
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>
>

From [email protected] Sun Feb 13 03:48:21 1994
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Date: Sun, 13 Feb 1994 13:36:23 +0200 (IST)
From: Einat Bielopolski <[email protected]>
Subject:
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Please, unsubscribe me !

Einat Bielopolski
Computation Center
Tel-Aviv University
Tel_Aviv
Israel

From [email protected] Sun Feb 13 04:01:55 1994
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Message-Id: <573783*@su-kom.dsv.su.se>
To: "Pine mailer discussions group (pine-infoEcac.washington.edu)" <[email protected]>,
Pine User Group <[email protected]>

From [email protected] Sun Feb 13 07:20:11 1994
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Date: Sun, 13 Feb 1994 22:56:13 +0800 (TPE)
From: Ed Greshko <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Commas
To: Adam J Weitzman <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Mailing List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Fri, 11 Feb 1994, Adam J Weitzman wrote:

> This is news to me. I have been around UNIX for almost 8 years and I have
> maybe once or twice only ever seen a filename with a comma in it. But if
> you really need to include it, you can always go "To files" after the
> "Read File" part and bring it in that way.

By now you know one of the reason's for a comma in a filename.

The next question. Do you try the "To files" suggestion you
made? It doesn't work either.

I agee with an earlier post that the comma should be quoted
via backslash for us *NIX geeks.

Edward M. Greshko Control Data Taiwan
Voice: +886-2-715-2222 x287 6/F, 131 Nanking East Road, Section 3
FAX : +886-2-712-9197 Taipei, Taiwan R.O.C

From [email protected] Sun Feb 13 07:21:56 1994
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Date: Sun, 13 Feb 1994 23:07:25 +0800 (TPE)
From: Ed Greshko <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pico is not quite emacs
To: Chris Garrigues <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Fri, 11 Feb 1994, Chris Garrigues wrote:

> Any thoughts?

Yes, I know what you mean. I have the same problem when I get
into a Ford Fiesta in Australia. Everything is almost the same...but
there are enough differences that I get confused. I was tempted to
ask Ford Australia to change their design so that it would make it
easier for me. However, someone pointed out that if I wanted to use
a Ford Fiesta manufactured in Australia I should get used to it and
not expect Ford to change it for me...when everyone in Australia is
perfectly happy with that model. :-) :-)

But to be serious...if you like emacs, and are happy with
emacs, then why don't you configure emacs as your alternate editor and
use emacs? It would be better than trying to change pico to be like
emacs...which I'm sure was never the intention.

Edward M. Greshko Control Data Taiwan
Voice: +886-2-715-2222 x287 6/F, 131 Nanking East Road, Section 3
FAX : +886-2-712-9197 Taipei, Taiwan R.O.C

From [email protected] Sun Feb 13 08:47:57 1994
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13 Feb 94 17:34 MEZ
Date: Sun, 13 Feb 1994 17:34:32 PST
From: Eigil Krogh Sorensen <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: PC Pine under Windows
To: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Cc: John Stumbles <[email protected]>,
Pine User Group <[email protected]>,
Pine Mission Control <[email protected]>
X-Sender: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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I was just about to reply that I'd never seen the problem described here.
Next thing that happend was I got the same errormessage [IMAP connection
broken in reply] after having read a couple of e-mails more.

That happend while PC-Pine was in the foreground-

- Eigil

On Sat, 12 Feb 1994, Terry Gray wrote:

> John,
> Apologies for the delay in responding.
>
> Does this happen when PC-Pine is in the foreground, or only when it is in
> the background?
>
> -teg
>
> On Tue, 1 Feb 1994, John Stumbles wrote:
>
> > If I leave PC Pine (3.89) running under MS Windows, when I return to it
> > after a while I get the message [IMAP connection broken in reply].
> >
> > Is this a bug?
> >
> > I'm not sure what's happening - the 'in reply' bit of the error messsage
> > is a bit confusing (in reply to what?).
> >
> >
> > John Stumbles [email protected]
> > University of Reading 0734 318435
> > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> >
> >
>

From [email protected] Sun Feb 13 09:24:33 1994
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Date: Sun, 13 Feb 1994 10:15:24 -0700 (MST)
From: Jim Davis <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Compile Problem on Dynix V3.2.0
To: Henry Kuo <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Sat, 12 Feb 1994, Henry Kuo wrote:

> I got some compile problem on Dynix V3.2.0. I don't know how to correct
> them. I hope I can get some help! Thanks!!

There were a lot of compilation problems when I tried building 3.89 on our
3.2.0 system. Since 3.07 (or thereabouts) compiled and ran fine I assume
that 3.89 should be okay without too much work. I was hoping to have done
it myself by now, but for my sins I've been stuck with Solaris support and
haven't had time to work on it.
--
Jim Davis | "He can eat an entire case of pudding cups."
[email protected] | -- Clifford Spleenhurfer

From [email protected] Sun Feb 13 10:58:17 1994
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Date: Sun, 13 Feb 1994 10:42:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Henry Kuo <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Henry Kuo <[email protected]>
Subject: Dynix V3.2.0
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Hi! Everyone,

Has anyone ever compiled pine3.89 for Dynix v3.2.0? Will that be legal
and ok to give me a copy? Staff in my site is not interesting in pine except
users. If you could give me a copy, please send it to me and use MINE
format. (I can run pine3.07 here.) Thank you very much!!

=Henry=

From [email protected] Sun Feb 13 11:06:21 1994
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Date: Sun, 13 Feb 1994 10:51:33 -0800 (PST)
From: Henry Kuo <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Henry Kuo <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Compile Problem on Dynix V3.2.0
To: Jim Davis <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

On Sun, 13 Feb 1994, Jim Davis wrote:

> There were a lot of compilation problems when I tried building 3.89 on our
> 3.2.0 system. Since 3.07 (or thereabouts) compiled and ran fine I assume
> that 3.89 should be okay without too much work. I was hoping to have done
> it myself by now, but for my sins I've been stuck with Solaris support and
> haven't had time to work on it.

I don't have problem to get imapd, mtest, and pico. I got my first
compile error on pine. I added /usr/types.h in os-dyn.h and the program
ran thourgh. Then the second problem is the fpos_t was undefined. I
added typedef unsigned long fpos_t; in the source which needed this variable.
Afterwards, I got something like redeclaration of formal parameter, ptr. I
don't quite understand that. Finally I gave up! I hope some one could
give me a hand.

-------------------------------------------------------------
Making c-client library and mtest
`mtest' is up to date.

Making Imapd
cd ../c-client;make
`mtest' is up to date.
cc -I../c-client `cat ../c-client/CFLAGS` -o imapd imapd.o ../c-client/c-client.a `cat ../c-client/LDFLAGS`

Making Pico

Making Pine.
cc -DDYN -O -c os.c &22592
"os.c", line 615: warning: illegal pointer combination, op =
"os.c", line 644: warning: illegal pointer/integer combination, op =
"os.c", line 680: warning: illegal pointer combination, op =
"os.c", line 1181: syntax error
"os.c", line 1183: redeclaration of formal parameter, ptr
"os.c", line 1183: incomplete or misplaced function definition
"os.c", line 1184: syntax error
"os.c", line 1190: redeclaration of formal parameter, stream
"os.c", line 1190: redeclaration of formal parameter, ptr
"os.c", line 1192: syntax error
"os.c", line 1194: redeclaration of formal parameter, ptr
"os.c", line 1194: incomplete or misplaced function definition
"os.c", line 1195: syntax error

22592: *** Error code 1
Make: . Stop.

From [email protected] Sun Feb 13 23:23:57 1994
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To: [email protected]
Path: news
From: [email protected] (Jon Etkins)
Newsgroups: apana.lists.mail.pine
Subject: Using a full 50-line screen
Date: 14 Feb 1994 18:06:20 +1100
Organization: werple public-access unix, Melbourne
Lines: 11
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Summary: PINE only uses the first 24 lines
Keywords: terminal size

I have changed my terminal definition to an 80x50 variant of vt100. Most
things (MAN, HELP, NN, etc) now use the whole screen, but PINE and PICO
steadfastly refuse to use the bottom half at all.

How can I get these two to use the whole screen?
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jon Etkins | "I do not avoid women, Mandrake,
| but I do deny them my essence"
[email protected] | - General Ripper, "Dr. Strangelove"

From [email protected] Sun Feb 13 23:42:16 1994
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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 08:27:25 +0100 (MET)
From: Petr Skoda <[email protected]>
Subject: Compression in PINE ?
To: pine-info <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9402140853.A6187-0100000@sunstel>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Hi, PINE-wizards,

I was just stroken by an crazy idea, so don't take me serious, but maybe
it is not crazy enough... ;-))

As the PINE has been used mostly for the processing AND SAVING of text mail
and the lot of text messages in folder may become very large, what about
a built-in compression and decompression routines ( I know, that the
decompression can be very fast opposite to compression -- e.g ARJ).
I mean by that a compressed folders (switchable by some option in .pinerc)
would be used. Whole folder would be decompressed at once to some temporary
file (or virtual memory) so all operations would be unaffected.

Regards,

*************************************************************************
* Petr Skoda Phone : +42-204-85201, ext. 361 *
* Stellar Department +42-2-724525 *
* Astronomical Institute CAS Fax : +42-2-881611 *
* 251 65 Ondrejov e-mail: [email protected] *
* Czech Republic [email protected] *
*************************************************************************

From [email protected] Mon Feb 14 01:47:54 1994
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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 09:35:51 +0000 (GMT)
From: Philip Hazel <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Commas
To: Chris Garrigues <[email protected]>
Cc: Matt Simmons <[email protected]>,
Adam J Weitzman <[email protected]>,
Pine Mailing List <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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X-Organisation: Computer Laboratory, Cambridge University, UK.
X-Mailer: RISCOS feMail [ver 0.20-alpha]

> On Fri, 11 Feb 1994, John Ladwig wrote:

> I'm not a pine developer, but my vote is to require the comma be
> quoted, probably with a backslash. This way non-Unix geeks won't get
> screwed by trying to use a comma in a place that is perfectly
> reasonable, and Unix geeks will be able to figure out that a backslash
> is a good idea.

If this is done, Pine should itself quote commas when suggesting file names.
I started this thread after receiving a MIME-attached file, whose suggested
name contained a comma. Pine put up the suggested name, but when I pressed
RETURN, complained about it!

Philip

--
Philip Hazel University Computing Service,
[email protected] New Museums Site, Cambridge CB2 3QG,
[email protected] England. Phone: +44 223 334714

From [email protected] Mon Feb 14 06:42:39 1994
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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 14:15:30 +0000 (GMT)
From: Marcus Collard <[email protected]>
Subject: Please unsubscribe.
To: [email protected]
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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Please unsubscribe me from the list.

Regards

[email protected]

From [email protected] Mon Feb 14 06:46:15 1994
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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 14:17:41 GMT
From: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Commas
To: Adam J Weitzman <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Mailing List <[email protected]>
X-Sender: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <PCPine_p.3.89.9402141406.A10529-0100000@[134.225.33.95]>
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Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Fri, 11 Feb 1994, Adam J Weitzman wrote:

> On Fri, 11 Feb 1994, Philip Hazel wrote:
>
> > Why won't pine accept commas in file names? They are relatively common in
> > file names on Unix... Is there a quoting mechanism that I have overlooked?
>
> This is news to me. I have been around UNIX for almost 8 years and I have
> maybe once or twice only ever seen a filename with a comma in it. But if
> you really need to include it, you can always go "To files" after the
> "Read File" part and bring it in that way.

Whilst we're on the subject (well, sort of...) why doesn't PC-PINE
understand that # is legal in DOS filenames?

John Stumbles [email protected]
University of Reading 0734 318435
Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AF, UK
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

From [email protected] Mon Feb 14 06:54:12 1994
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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 09:23:54 -0500 (EST)
From: Sherry Lake <[email protected]>
Subject: Reading News Question
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Can you read news from pine? If not, are there any plans to do this?

Thanks.
---
Sherry H. Lake [email protected]
Electronic Mail Consultant
George Mason University

From [email protected] Mon Feb 14 07:01:46 1994
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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 14:40:41 GMT
From: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pico is not quite emacs
To: Mark Delany <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine User Group <[email protected]>
X-Sender: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <PCPine_p.3.89.9402141427.B10529-0100000@[134.225.33.95]>
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On 12 Feb 1994, Mark Delany wrote:

> In <[email protected]> [email protected] (Chris Garrigues) writes:
>
> >Am I the only one who has a problem with editors which are *almost*
> >emacs, but not quite?
>
> I tend to agree with the original poster. Though I suspect that
> changing it now is way too late as you'll hit all those pico users.
>
> Certainly I get hit by ^K and ^Y an awful lot, especially as I use
> pico for small mails and switch to emacs for larger ones.

It's not quite WordStar either. I switch between Pico in PC-Pine and
other PC editors, many of which have WS keymapping. I can get used to ^K =
delete line/block, and ^U to undelete is exact WS, but then I find myself
going ^X to go down a line .... <sigh>

But I do agree that it shouldn't be changed - that way lies madness!

John Stumbles [email protected]
University of Reading 0734 318435
Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AF, UK
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

From [email protected] Mon Feb 14 07:30:02 1994
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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 09:57:49 -0500 (EST)
From: Adam J Weitzman <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Commas
To: Ed Greshko <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Mailing List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
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On Sun, 13 Feb 1994, Ed Greshko wrote:

> By now you know one of the reason's for a comma in a filename.

And boy is my face red!

> The next question. Do you try the "To files" suggestion you
> made? It doesn't work either.

Funny, I tried it, and it did work. I used emacs to create a short test
file called hello,goodbye and was successfully able to include it into a
mailing using ^R^T and cursoring to that filename.

- Adam J Weitzman
INDIVIDUAL, Inc.
[email protected]

From [email protected] Mon Feb 14 08:33:27 1994
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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 09:56:45 -0600 (CST)
From: Chris Garrigues <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Chris Garrigues <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pico is not quite emacs
To: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
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On Fri, 11 Feb 1994, Terry Gray wrote:

> Chris,
> As a part-time emacs user, I am sympathetic to your frustration.
> Remember, however, that emacs has a semi-infinite number of commands that
> can be bound to a large set of keystrokes (because of ESCape... or the
> META key, if there are any of those keyboards still around.)
>
> In Pico we needed to live within the constraint of single control-key
> commands. We couldn't even use ESCape as an escape option, because we
> wanted arrow keys to work.

I certainly understand the above issues and it would be absurd to ask for
the full functionality of gnu emacs. After all, I'd love to have things
like meta-C available, that I know that would be asking too much. I
actually adapt fairly well to missing functionality, I just don't adapt
well to different functionality.

> We actually started with ^K being like emacs, but feedback from some of
> our early users suggested that this was not intuitively obvious behavior
> for our (original) target audience. So we changed. It has occurred to
> some of us that we could add an option that restored emacs-style Ctl-K
> behavior, and this is on the list. Ctl-O and Ctl-Y are much more
> difficult to deal with, because we just don't have sufficient key space.
>
> I suspect we could reduce your cognitive dissonance a bit by making it
> easier for emacs to be your default editor (e.g. having cursor motion
> into the body of the message trigger the alternate editor.) That way
> you'd only have to re-map your fingers when in the message header :)
> There are some issues in trying to do this, but we will be investigating
> the feasibility.

The problem is that the functionality in the headers is very useful, so I
don't really want to give that up. I think mostly I just felt like
grousing a little. After all, this isn't the only "cognitive dissonance"
that I suffer from: since I also use a Mac a lot, whenever I'm in gnu
emacs 19, I keep expecting that if I mark a region and start typing that the
marked region will magically be deleted. I don't suppose you can solve
this for me. (There was a time that I was using three editors and had a
problem with the escape key: One of them was teco where hitting the
escape key twice executed my commands, so I got used to doing that often.
Another one had escape toggle into a help screen so I kept having my
screen refreshed needlessly. A third one was the real problem: in the
UCSD Pascal editor escape aborted the current insertion. In short;
things have been worse in the past, so I shouldn't complain too much.)

> We welcome all suggestions, save perhaps "Make all keybindings
> user-configurable..."
>
> -teg
>

On a more useful note: I've loaded the mime tools for emacs (available
from wnoc-fuk.wide.ad.jp:pub/GNU/etc/emacs-mime-tools.shar) into my
system, and it would be nice if it worked when I escaped into my alternate
editor (emacs); put it in mime mode; inserted some mime stuff; and
returned to pine.

Chris

--
Chris Garrigues (MIME capable) [email protected]
Microelectronics and Computer Technology Corporation +1 512 338 3328
3500 West Balcones Center Drive Fax +1 512 338 3838
Austin, TX 78759-6509
USA

From [email protected] Mon Feb 14 08:39:49 1994
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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 08:02:54 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Using a full 50-line screen
To: Jon Etkins <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Jon,

Try "stty rows 50 cols 80" before entering Pine.

Thanks for the request!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On 14 Feb 1994, Jon Etkins wrote:

>
> I have changed my terminal definition to an 80x50 variant of vt100. Most
> things (MAN, HELP, NN, etc) now use the whole screen, but PINE and PICO
> steadfastly refuse to use the bottom half at all.
>
> How can I get these two to use the whole screen?
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Jon Etkins | "I do not avoid women, Mandrake,
> | but I do deny them my essence"
> [email protected] | - General Ripper, "Dr. Strangelove"
>

From [email protected] Mon Feb 14 08:51:19 1994
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14 Feb 94 17:22 MEZ
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 17:21:21 PST
From: Eigil Krogh Sorensen <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pico is not quite emacs
To: Pine User Group <[email protected]>
X-Sender: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <PCPine_p.3.89.9402141427.B10529-0100000@[134.225.33.95]>
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On Mon, 14 Feb 1994, John Stumbles wrote:

> On 12 Feb 1994, Mark Delany wrote:
>
> > In <[email protected]> [email protected] (Chris Garrigues) writes:
> >
> > >Am I the only one who has a problem with editors which are *almost*
> > >emacs, but not quite?
> >
> > I tend to agree with the original poster. Though I suspect that
> > changing it now is way too late as you'll hit all those pico users.
> >
> > Certainly I get hit by ^K and ^Y an awful lot, especially as I use
> > pico for small mails and switch to emacs for larger ones.
>
>
> It's not quite WordStar either. I switch between Pico in PC-Pine and
> other PC editors, many of which have WS keymapping. I can get used to ^K =
> delete line/block, and ^U to undelete is exact WS, but then I find myself
> going ^X to go down a line .... <sigh>
>
>
> But I do agree that it shouldn't be changed - that way lies madness!
>
>
> John Stumbles [email protected]
> University of Reading 0734 318435
> Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AF, UK
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>
>
Add this as one more reason why not to change pico:
I'm used to use elm on UNIX with vi as the editor. Please change pine to
act just as vi ;-)

Eigil Krogh Sorensen
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Address: Water Quality Institute
Science Park Aarhus
10, Gustav Wieds Vej
DK-8000 Aarhus C
DENMARK.

Phone: +45 86 20 20 00 or
+45 86 20 20 11 local 2114

Fax: +45 86 19 75 11

E-mail: [email protected]
----------------------------------------------------------------------

From [email protected] Mon Feb 14 09:35:04 1994
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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 08:57:48 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Dynix V3.2.0
To: Henry Kuo <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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We only have Dynix/PTX systems here, so we must depend on outside
contributions for non-PTX systems. If someone will send us diffs to make
Pine 3.89 run on Dynix (non-PTX) we will make every effort to roll those
changes into Pine 3.90.

Sorry I don't have any better news!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Sun, 13 Feb 1994, Henry Kuo wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, 13 Feb 1994, David L Miller wrote:
>
> > Henry,
> >
> > Are you running Dynix or Dynix/PTX? They are two very different
>
> Dynix only.
>
> > operating systems with different Pine ports. If you are running PTX, use
> > the "ptx" port...
>
> Then what can I do?
>
> =Henry=
>
>

From [email protected] Mon Feb 14 09:51:35 1994
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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 09:15:50 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Compression in PINE ?
To: Petr Skoda <[email protected]>
Cc: pine-info <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9402140853.A6187-0100000@sunstel>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Petr,

This has been suggested before. Our basic opinion is that disk space is
cheaper than the extra CPUs we would have to buy to support compression
for a given amount of raw data. If you would like to write a c-client
driver for compressed mailboxes, we can probably incorporate it into the
distribution. Look in c-client/mbox.c for a template you might want to
start from.

Thanks for the request!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Mon, 14 Feb 1994, Petr Skoda wrote:

> Hi, PINE-wizards,
>
> I was just stroken by an crazy idea, so don't take me serious, but maybe
> it is not crazy enough... ;-))
>
> As the PINE has been used mostly for the processing AND SAVING of text mail
> and the lot of text messages in folder may become very large, what about
> a built-in compression and decompression routines ( I know, that the
> decompression can be very fast opposite to compression -- e.g ARJ).
> I mean by that a compressed folders (switchable by some option in .pinerc)
> would be used. Whole folder would be decompressed at once to some temporary
> file (or virtual memory) so all operations would be unaffected.
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
>
> *************************************************************************
> * Petr Skoda Phone : +42-204-85201, ext. 361 *
> * Stellar Department +42-2-724525 *
> * Astronomical Institute CAS Fax : +42-2-881611 *
> * 251 65 Ondrejov e-mail: [email protected] *
> * Czech Republic [email protected] *
> *************************************************************************
>

From [email protected] Mon Feb 14 11:00:37 1994
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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 10:24:02 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Please unsubscribe.
To: Marcus Collard <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

To unsubscribe from pine-info, send a message to
[email protected] containing:

unsubscribe pine-info

Thank you!

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Mon, 14 Feb 1994, Marcus Collard wrote:

>
> Please unsubscribe me from the list.
>
> Regards
>
> [email protected]
>

From [email protected] Mon Feb 14 11:14:04 1994
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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 10:41:34 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Reading News Question
To: Sherry Lake <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Sherry,

Yes, in Pine 3.89 you can *read* news, assuming you already have a .pinerc
file created by another newsreader. Just set the news-collections
variable in your .pinerc file to point to your NNTP server(s). The next
release of Pine will include support for subscription, unsubscription,
posting, etc.

Thanks for the request!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Mon, 14 Feb 1994, Sherry Lake wrote:

> Can you read news from pine? If not, are there any plans to do this?
>
> Thanks.
> ---
> Sherry H. Lake [email protected]
> Electronic Mail Consultant
> George Mason University
>

From [email protected] Mon Feb 14 12:33:39 1994
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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 20:08:14 +0000 (GMT)
From: The PenMaster <[email protected]>
Subject: Headers
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9402142057.A4651-0100000@teaching6>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Greetings,
I have a small request to make for Pine; I know about the
Reply-To: header is going to be introduced, but can we please have an
option to allow us to specify our own headers (and what goes in them;
whether it is always the same, or editable at the time of message
composition), and whether they are included in a message or not (like
bcc: in the rich header...).

Also, I wholeheartedly approve of any plans to include proper
News handling. If it could be based on a similar system to rtin 1.2 then
that would be even better...

Thanks for listening,

David

_ _
==========////====================================================
/ //// David Edwards: Welcome to the real world... \
|| _ _ //// send mail to: ||
|| \\\\ //// edwards%[email protected] ||
\ \\\X/// or [email protected] /
====\XXX/=========================================================

From [email protected] Mon Feb 14 12:43:18 1994
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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 13:47:35 -0600 (CST)
From: "Isaias Callejas Mancilla." <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Using a full 50-line screen
To: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Cc: Jon Etkins <[email protected]>,
The PINE List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 14 Feb 1994, David L Miller wrote:

> Jon,
>
> Try "stty rows 50 cols 80" before entering Pine.
>
> Thanks for the request!
>
> --DLM
>
> |\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
> |/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
> University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
> 4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA
>
> On 14 Feb 1994, Jon Etkins wrote:
>
> >
> > I have changed my terminal definition to an 80x50 variant of vt100. Most
> > things (MAN, HELP, NN, etc) now use the whole screen, but PINE and PICO
> > steadfastly refuse to use the bottom half at all.
> >
> > How can I get these two to use the whole screen?
> > --
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Jon Etkins | "I do not avoid women, Mandrake,
> > | but I do deny them my essence"
> > [email protected] | - General Ripper, "Dr. Strangelove"
> >
>
Hi,
But, then in the "pine/osdep/os-xxx.h file :

=================os-xxx.h========================
/*-- Max screen pine will display on. Used to define some array sizes --*/
define MAX_SCREEN_COLS (170)
define MAX_SCREEN_ROWS (200)

/*---- When no screen size can be discovered this is the size used -----*/
define DEFAULT_LINES_ON_TERMINAL (24)
define DEFAULT_COLUMNS_ON_TERMINAL (80)
========================================================

Do not solution the problem ??? I have this over screen more
large on DECWindows emulating vt100 terminal and it's fine...

Later...

/#### E. Isaias Callejas M.
/# /######## Electronic Mail System Administration
/## /########## Coordination of Computing Services
### /## ### Academic Computing, National University of Mexico
### ######### ### ==================================================
### ##/ ### University City, Mexico D.F.
##########/ ##/ E-mail : [email protected]
########/ #/ Phone : (5)6 22 85 22 << MIME is Welcome!!! >>
####/

From [email protected] Mon Feb 14 12:48:46 1994
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id <[email protected]>; Mon, 14 Feb 1994 20:12:08 +0000
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 20:14:28 GMT
From: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pico is not quite emacs
To: Eigil Krogh Sorensen <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine User Group <[email protected]>
X-Sender: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <PCPine_f.3.89.9402141739.A10255-0100000@vkipc22>
Message-Id: <PCPine_p.3.89.9402142022.B10527-0100000@[134.225.33.95]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Mon, 14 Feb 1994, Eigil Krogh Sorensen wrote:

> On Mon, 14 Feb 1994, John Stumbles wrote:
>
> > On 12 Feb 1994, Mark Delany wrote:
> >
> > > In <[email protected]> [email protected] (Chris Garrigues) writes:
> > >
> > > >Am I the only one who has a problem with editors which are *almost*
> > > >emacs, but not quite?
> > >
> > It's not quite WordStar either. I switch between Pico in PC-Pine and

> I'm used to use elm on UNIX with vi as the editor. Please change pine to
> act just as vi ;-)

Now let's hear it for EDLIN! .... 8^)

John Stumbles [email protected]
University of Reading 0734 318435
Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AF, UK
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

From [email protected] Mon Feb 14 13:54:16 1994
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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 13:18:40 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Headers
To: The PenMaster <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9402142057.A4651-0100000@teaching6>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

David,

We are working on a way to specify extension headers, but have not come
to any firm design decisions yet. Thanks for the request!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA Amiga makes it possible!

On Mon, 14 Feb 1994, The PenMaster wrote:

> Greetings,
> I have a small request to make for Pine; I know about the
> Reply-To: header is going to be introduced, but can we please have an
> option to allow us to specify our own headers (and what goes in them;
> whether it is always the same, or editable at the time of message
> composition), and whether they are included in a message or not (like
> bcc: in the rich header...).
>
> Also, I wholeheartedly approve of any plans to include proper
> News handling. If it could be based on a similar system to rtin 1.2 then
> that would be even better...
>
> Thanks for listening,
>
> David
>
> _ _
> ==========////====================================================
> / //// David Edwards: Welcome to the real world... \
> || _ _ //// send mail to: ||
> || \\\\ //// edwards%[email protected] ||
> \ \\\X/// or [email protected] /
> ====\XXX/=========================================================
>

From [email protected] Mon Feb 14 14:36:43 1994
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14 Feb 94 23:02 MEZ
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 23:00:47 PST
From: Eigil Krogh Sorensen <[email protected]>
Subject: Saved mail read on PC-Pine and SCO with elm. Good ideas ?
To: Pine User Group <[email protected]>
X-Sender: [email protected]
Message-Id: <PCPine_f.3.89.9402142202.B10452-0100000@vkipc22>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

We are using PC-Pine with an SCO UNIX as mailserver. The mailer program
on SCO is mmdf.

On the SCO UNIX system we use elm as the mail reader/poster.

Now it is so that PC-Pine can understand and read mails saved with elm on
the SCO but elm can't understand and read mails saved with PC-Pine. The
reason is that mmdf and elm saves mails in folders with a line with 4
CTRL-As before and after each mail in the folder. If these CTRL-A's are
not there elm declares the folder corrupt.

Does someone have a good idea about hov to solve that problem ?

Of course we could read the mails in the folders with PC-Pine and resend
it to ourselves and then read the incoming mail with elm. But that is a
bit to crazy.

Eigil Krogh Sorensen
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Address: Water Quality Institute
Science Park Aarhus
10, Gustav Wieds Vej
DK-8000 Aarhus C
DENMARK.

Phone: +45 86 20 20 00 or
+45 86 20 20 11 local 2114

Fax: +45 86 19 75 11

E-mail: [email protected]
----------------------------------------------------------------------

From [email protected] Mon Feb 14 15:48:59 1994
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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 17:28:44 -0600 (CST)
From: Chris Garrigues <[email protected]>
Subject: text/enriched
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

According to the FAQ, text/enriched supersedes text/richtext, but pine
only appears to support text/richtext while exmh is generating
text/enriched. Can I assume that the next patch to pine will include
the support of text/enriched to the same limited extent that
text/richtext is currently supported?

Chris

Chris Garrigues (MIME capable) [email protected]
Microelectronics and Computer Technology Corporation +1 512 338 3328
3500 West Balcones Center Drive Fax +1 512 338 3838
Austin, TX 78759-6509 USA

From [email protected] Mon Feb 14 16:16:50 1994
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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 15:55:29 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: your mail
To: Burzin Engineer <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9402101152.H8921-0100000@tecsrv12>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Burzin,

Pine does not currently have an option for alternate signatures. We are
considering the addition of a "FCC-folder-name-rule" similar to the
saved-msg-name-rule. If the user-domain variable in your .pinerc file is
blank, Pine should use whatever is returned by your system. The issue of
when to use it is kind of a hot topic, but we find it to be much safer
and more predictable to always fully qualify addresses.

Thanks for the requests!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Thu, 10 Feb 1994, Burzin Engineer wrote:

> A few questions:
> (I moved from elm to pine, my questions might reflect that)
>
> 1. anyway in pine for having a local signature file v/s remote signature
> file?
>
> 2. anyway of saving outgoing message by to-field default and if folder
> does not exist then put it in sent-mail?
>
> 3. How do you stop pine from adding the domainname to internal messages.
> i.e. If I leave it blank in .pinerc then it recognizes internal mail and
> expands userid to username BUT my external mail does not have my correct
> return address, so people cannot reply back to me. If I add the domainname
> it appends it to internal addresses also which I would prefer not to.
> Any solutions?
>
> Thanks
>
> --
> Burzin N. Engineer
> Teradata Database Development Center | Phone (310) 524-7513
> Decision Enabling Systems Division | Fax (310) 524-5511
> AT&T Global Information Solutions | E-Mail [email protected]
>
>
>

From [email protected] Tue Feb 15 02:30:41 1994
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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 09:16:37 +0000 (WET)
From: Martin Beenham <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Reading News Question
To: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 14 Feb 1994, David L Miller wrote:
> Yes, in Pine 3.89 you can *read* news, assuming you already have a .pinerc
> file created by another newsreader. Just set the news-collections
> variable in your .pinerc file to point to your NNTP server(s). The next
> release of Pine will include support for subscription, unsubscription,
> posting, etc.

And threading???...Please :)

Regards,
--
Martin G. Beenham "IT - what's that?" (martin@compass)|Tel +44 635 550660
Compass Computer Group, Newbury, Berks, UK RG14 5PX |Fax +44 635 521268
Internet: [email protected] (@work)
[email protected] (@home)

From [email protected] Tue Feb 15 06:13:00 1994
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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 08:29:24 -0500 (EST)
From: ILAN GRAIFER <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Reading News Question
To: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.07.9402150822.A27345-b100000@green>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Tue, 15 Feb 1994, Martin Beenham wrote:

> On Mon, 14 Feb 1994, David L Miller wrote:
> > Yes, in Pine 3.89 you can *read* news, assuming you already have a .pinerc
> > file created by another newsreader. Just set the news-collections
> > variable in your .pinerc file to point to your NNTP server(s). The next
> > release of Pine will include support for subscription, unsubscription,
> > posting, etc.
>
> And threading???...Please :)
>

I don't think pine should become a full news-reader. There are many
readers that are both powerful and easy to use and which are easily
obtainable on the net.
I would prefer to see pine as a mail agent only, which does what
it is supposed to do and doesn't try to be an all in one package.

I would like to suggest adding an option of making an uuencoded attachment
in addition to the MIME attachments. Many people don't have MIME, and it
will be nice if it was possible to send a uuencoded file to those people
from within pine. An automatic decoding would be nice as well :)

Ilan

--
_==| Ilan Graifer
_==| )__) |
)_) )___) )) [email protected]
)___) )____))_) [email protected]
_ )____)_____))__)\ [email protected]
\---__|____/|___|___-\\---
^^^^^^^^^\ oo oo oo oo /~~^^^^^^^
~^^^^ ~~~~^^~~~~^^~~^^~~~~~
~~^^ ~^^~ ~^~ ~^ ~^
~^~~ ~~~^^~

From [email protected] Tue Feb 15 10:44:00 1994
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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 10:11:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Gayland G. Gump" <[email protected]>
Subject: Addressbooks for PINE
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I'd like to express our appreciation for the work you are doing with
PINE. I believe it is of great benefit to the Internet Community. Not
to appear ungreatful, but we understand that you are planning on
providing multiple personal and shared addressbook capabilities in a
future release of PINE. We are trying to move to an electronic office
and would greatly appreciate if these capabilities were made available
ASAP. In addition, we are looking for scheduling/calendar capabilities
which would ideally be integrated into our mail system. We understand
that these may be on you "long list". It would be great if these
capabilities were given more attention sooner than later if possible.
Thanks.

Gayland G. Gump
One of the Good Guys!

From [email protected] Tue Feb 15 10:45:12 1994
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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 12:16:33 -0600 (CST)
From: Matt Simmons <[email protected]>
Subject: Control-D
To: Pine Mailing List <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Would it be possible to define Control-D on the index screen and main
menu as an alias to Quit? Many UNIX programs do this (ftp, lynx, Bourne
shell, C-Shell) and it's become a habit to exit...

[email protected] Matt Simmons Bradley University, Peoria, IL
Found in the BU Scout Personals:
"Jane--I don't want to be alone again for Valentine's Day. I want to work
this out. I was just hurt that you would sleep with my best friend ...
repeatedly ... in my bed. Actually, never mind. Go to hell. John"

From [email protected] Tue Feb 15 11:14:08 1994
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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 10:44:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Trimble <[email protected]>
Subject: Multiple Personal and Shared Addressbooks
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I would like to see multiple personal and shared addressbooks in the next
version of pine.

****************************************************************************
John Trimble VOICE: (206) 737-2039
Washington State University FAX: (206) 690-4611
1812 E. McLoughlin Blvd.
Vancouver, WA 98663-3597 INTERNET: [email protected]
****************************************************************************

From [email protected] Tue Feb 15 11:40:15 1994
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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 11:19:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Laurel Cunningham <[email protected]>
Subject:
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

It would be most helpful to have multiple personal and shared
addressbooks included in the next release of pine.

From [email protected] Tue Feb 15 12:02:45 1994
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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 20:33:28 PST
From: Eigil Krogh Sorensen <[email protected]>
Subject: Announcement of new versions of Pine
To: Pine User Group <[email protected]>
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Will release of new versions of pine be announced in this group ?

In the docs. following pine it says that a pine version for Windows is=20
under way. I would very much like to be informed as soon as this Windows=20
pine is available.

Eigil Krogh S=F8rensen
---------------------------------------------------------------------
=09Address: Water Quality Institute
=09=09=09Science Park Aarhus
=09=09=0910, Gustav Wieds Vej
=09=09=09DK-8000 Aarhus C
=09=09=09DENMARK.

=09Phone: +45 86 20 20 00 or
=09=09=09+45 86 20 20 11 local 2114

=09Fax: +45 86 19 75 11

=09E-mail: [email protected]
----------------------------------------------------------------------

From [email protected] Tue Feb 15 12:28:31 1994
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From [email protected] Tue Feb 15 12:35:07 1994
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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 20:06:36 +0000 (GMT)
From: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Reply-To: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: PC Pine under Windows
To: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine User Group <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 14 Feb 1994, Terry Gray wrote:

> We've seen cases where, with certain PC configurations, PC-Pine will fail
> with this error [IMAP connection broken in reply] even when in the
> foreground, but in the background case,
> one thing to check is the "PIF" file and how much of the CPU Pine is
> allocated while in the background. I think I have mine set to 50%
> (PC-Pine will try to "wake up" and check for new mail periodically, even
> when in the background. If it doesn't get any cycles, I think the error
> you saw would be expected.)

OK, I have PCPINE running from a PIF, and it now seems not to lose its
IMAP connection! Thanks for your help. For the FAQ my PIF settings are as
follows (386 enhanced mode, BTW)

Prog filename C:\PINE\PINE.EXE
Window title Pine
Optional params
Startup dir C:\PINE
Video memory (.) Text ( ) Low graphics ( ) High graphics
Memory reqirements KB required 128 KB desired 640
EMS memory ... 0 KB limit 0
XMS memory ... 0 .... 0
Display usage (.) Full screen Execution [x] Background
( ) Windowed [ ] Exclusive
[x] Close window on exit

----------------------------Advanced Settings-------------------------------
Multitasking options--------------------------------------------------------
Background priority 100 Foreground priority 100
[ ] Detect Idle time

Memory Options--------------------------------------------------------------
[ ] EMS memory locked [ ] XMS memory locked
[ ] Uses High memory area [ ] Lock application memory

Display options-------------------------------------------------------------
Monitor ports [ ] text [ ] Low graphics [ ] High Graphics
[x] Emulate text mode [ ] Retain Video memory

Other options----------------------------------------------------------------
[x] Allow fast paste [ ] Allow close when active
Reserve shortcut keys
(none - I can't be bothered typing all the boxes!)

Application shortcut key [None ]

I did have Background priority set to 50 (not 50% BTW - 50 out of 10000)
but increased it the first time PINE lost its IMAP connection (when in the
background). However at the time I didn't have the Background execution
box checked, which meant that PINE didn't get any time when in the
background anyway (and of course it lost its connection), so I can
probably put it back to 50 again. I understand that if any other
application is set for Execution: Exclusive flag then it will hog the
processor and prevent PINE getting timeslices, so there's still no
guarantee that PINE will never lose its connection when in the
background, but at least it won't do so when nothing else is happening.

I'm not sure about the memory requirements - I'm pretty sure PINE
doesn't use XMS or EMS, but I guess it does want 640K if it can get
it...?

I switched off Detect idle time as I understand (from good old Windows
Secrets) that Windows can cut off the app thinking it's not doing anything
if this setting is on. I wonder if PINE is Windows-aware and tells windows
when it's not doing anything anyway?

Maybe some Windows guru out there can suggest further tweaks.

John Stumbles [email protected]
University of Reading 0734 318435
Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AF, UK
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

From [email protected] Tue Feb 15 14:12:21 1994
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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 13:50:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Ellen C. Franklin" <[email protected]>
Subject: address book request
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Please add the capacity for multiple personal (or personnel) and shared
address books to Pine. Thank you.

From [email protected] Tue Feb 15 14:50:50 1994
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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 16:29:33 -0600 (CST)
From: Chris Garrigues <[email protected]>
Subject: File references
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

At our site, everybody has access to pretty much the same file system so
it would actually be preferable to use

Content-type: message/external-body; access-type=local-file

over actually attaching the file. I'd like to be able to specify that a
file is either attached or referenced under user control and also be able
to set the default at our site to use references instead of attachments
as it does at present. (Of course, it would be nice if this default
depended on wether or not there were off-site addresses in the to list,
but that's hard to do reliably due to mailing lists, etc.)

Chris

Chris Garrigues (MIME capable) [email protected]
Microelectronics and Computer Technology Corporation +1 512 338 3328
3500 West Balcones Center Drive Fax +1 512 338 3838
Austin, TX 78759-6509 USA

From [email protected] Tue Feb 15 15:32:23 1994
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From: [email protected]
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Message-Id: <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 94 18:17:47 EST
Subject: Wishes for Pine Improvements

I love Pine! It isn't as flexible as Elm or as Mac-like as the Mac-Eudora
client. Nor does it act as a client that will phone my account periodically
like AOL does. Still it is a wonderful product. My students, who are local
teachers, have found ways to circumvent their VMS account, which doesn't use
Pine, to telnet to WSUV, which does. That's proof of its ease of use.

I would like to see Pine as a Mac POP client that uses the communications
toolbox, much as Eudora does. There are many advantages to reading and
writing mail offline. The first is that I can't get online. there just
aren't enough dialups anymore. The second is that when I do get on, the net
is too slow to think and write at the same time. This is why I've started
forwarding my mail to AOL from my UNIX account. I can't check my mail
several times per day automatically and read and write offline. When the
dialups are busy, I don't worry because I know they will eventually be free
and I don't have to keep trying to get on manually.

I'd also like to see multiple personal and shared addressbooks. This would
help me organize my lists (e.g., class,
committee, department, professional, etc.).

Keep up the good work.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
| Mark G. Gillingham | [email protected] |
| WSU Vancouver | Voice- 206 737-2010 |
| 1812 E McLoughlin Blvd | FAX- 206 690-4611 |
| Vancouver WA 98663 | 503-228-6307 (home & FAX) |
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++

From [email protected] Tue Feb 15 16:29:06 1994
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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 16:04:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Raymond Pendergast <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Raymond Pendergast <[email protected]>
Subject: new release of pine
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

I'd like to see multiple personal and shared address books in the
new release of pine. thanks.

From [email protected] Tue Feb 15 16:29:14 1994
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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 15:35:23 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Announcement of new versions of Pine
To: Eigil Krogh Sorensen <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine User Group <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <PCPine_f.3.89.9402152046.A10452-0100000@vkipc22>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Yes, all new version announcements go to both pine-info and pine-announce=
=20
mailing lists.

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Tue, 15 Feb 1994, Eigil Krogh Sorensen wrote:

> Will release of new versions of pine be announced in this group ?
>=20
> In the docs. following pine it says that a pine version for Windows is=20
> under way. I would very much like to be informed as soon as this Windows=
=20
> pine is available.
>=20
>=20
> Eigil Krogh S=F8rensen
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> =09Address: Water Quality Institute
> =09=09=09Science Park Aarhus
> =09=09=0910, Gustav Wieds Vej
> =09=09=09DK-8000 Aarhus C
> =09=09=09DENMARK.
>=20
> =09Phone: +45 86 20 20 00 or
> =09=09=09+45 86 20 20 11 local 2114
>=20
> =09Fax: +45 86 19 75 11
>=20
> =09E-mail: [email protected]
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>=20

From [email protected] Tue Feb 15 16:31:37 1994
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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 15:57:43 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: File references
To: Chris Garrigues <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Chris,

We plan to add support for message/external-body in a future release of
Pine. Thanks for the suggestion!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Tue, 15 Feb 1994, Chris Garrigues wrote:

> At our site, everybody has access to pretty much the same file system so
> it would actually be preferable to use
>
> Content-type: message/external-body; access-type=local-file
>
> over actually attaching the file. I'd like to be able to specify that a
> file is either attached or referenced under user control and also be able
> to set the default at our site to use references instead of attachments
> as it does at present. (Of course, it would be nice if this default
> depended on wether or not there were off-site addresses in the to list,
> but that's hard to do reliably due to mailing lists, etc.)
>
> Chris
>
>
> Chris Garrigues (MIME capable) [email protected]
> Microelectronics and Computer Technology Corporation +1 512 338 3328
> 3500 West Balcones Center Drive Fax +1 512 338 3838
> Austin, TX 78759-6509 USA
>

From [email protected] Tue Feb 15 16:47:50 1994
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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 94 16:33:24 PST
Message-Id: <9402160033.AA01802@ciao>
To: [email protected]
From: [email protected] (Michael Showers)
Subject: File Access

How can I stop users from move about in our file system?

They can use the "attach" feature to "go to files", and roam freely.
Granted, they can't do much, but one student just tried to mail a "core".

All ideas freely accepted.

Michael Showers | 2079-Columbia Ave.
Computer Systems Manager | Trail, British Columbia
School District No. 11 (Trail) | CANADA V1R-1K7
[email protected] | voice: (604) 368-2234

-- A.K.A. The Technical Connection for the CIAO! Free-Net --

/\ /\ /\
/ \^^^/\/ /^^^^\
^^^^^^ It's great in the Kootenays.
----------------------------------------------------

From [email protected] Tue Feb 15 17:18:17 1994
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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 19:59:02 -0500 (EST)
From: "Michael A. Crowley" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: File Access
To: Michael Showers <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <9402160033.AA01802@ciao>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Tue, 15 Feb 1994, Michael Showers wrote:

> Date: Tue, 15 Feb 94 16:33:24 PST
> From: Michael Showers <[email protected]>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: File Access
>
> How can I stop users from move about in our file system?
>
> They can use the "attach" feature to "go to files", and roam freely.
> Granted, they can't do much, but one student just tried to mail a "core".
>
> All ideas freely accepted.

Seems like if someone has read permissions, they should be able
to move there. Don't try to overcontrol for the low probability
event.

mike

From [email protected] Tue Feb 15 17:19:18 1994
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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 19:52:11 -0500 (EST)
From: Ken Weaverling <[email protected]>
Subject: Security enhancement request...
To: Pine Mailing List <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I have just been the victim of a very troubling problem. My mail directory
was set to 755 permissions and many of my saved mail folders were set to
644. I also found evidence that my mail was read by others since this
hole opened up. Being the sys administrator here, this is a real bad
problem. I now have to go through 5 megs of saved messages, look for
compromising information and correct it.

To settle some fears, No, Pine was not responsible for this. Also created
in my mail directory was a subdir used by Macintosh file serving software
that I installed on Unix months ago. Apparently, it changed the permissions,
probably based on the "Privileges" menu item on the Mac that I had checked
incorrectly.

Yes, this is a stupid user mistake of the highest order, especially since
I should know better.

But what I am suggesting is the following. Since Pine is geared towards
novices (and idiots like myself), can it be made to double check access
rights when opening a folder for world-read permissions and perhaps warn
the user in the status window ("Warning: Your folder is set to be readable
by everyone on the system")?

On one hand, a MUA shouldn't have to worry about double-checking for
stupid luser mistakes, but on the other hand, it might make a nice public
service feature! I can't really think of many reasons why people's mail
should be publically readable. If it is to be shared, it should be in a
public type newsgroup or bbs type thingamajig.

From [email protected] Tue Feb 15 18:45:53 1994
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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 21:23:43 -0500
From: [email protected] (Barry Shein)
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: Ken Weaverling's message of Tue, 15 Feb 1994 19:52:11 -0500 (EST) <[email protected]>
Subject: Security enhancement request...

It would seem that a better solution to the problem you describe would
be the option to save folders encrypted with some password. Then it
wouldn't matter a lot if file security were compromised. Obviously it
raises the issue of people forgetting their encryption keys, but I
think that only argues for this not being the default. This sort of
thing is becoming a more and more commonplace option in all sorts of
utilities so I think people basically knows what it means and whether
they want it or not (or understand in a sentence.)

The only other problem it raises is the whole export regs spectre, but
perhaps the right approach is the sysadmin or someone enters the
command to be run on the file to encrypt or some such thing.

-Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die | [email protected] | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202 | Login: 617-739-WRLD

From [email protected] Tue Feb 15 19:13:44 1994
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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 21:52:12 -0500 (EST)
From: Virtual Dave Lankes <[email protected]>
Subject: Multiple Delete/Jump to top
To: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I remember some mention of a multiple delete in coming versions of Pine.
This is a VERY useful feature I'd like to see implemented. The ability to
tag messages 1-30 for deletion. Thi might work as a command line option
or like Pico's multiple line selection.

Another feature that is standard in other mail programs and would make a
lot of sense to me...the ability to jump to the top or bottom of a message
(or file in Pico).

..........................................................
: "Virtual" Dave Lankes [email protected] :
: AskERIC Researcher "This is not your father's Internet" :
: School of Information Studies Syracuse University :
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

From [email protected] Tue Feb 15 19:29:09 1994
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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 19:13:38 -0800 (PST)
From: VampLestat <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Security enhancement request...
To: Barry Shein <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected], [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Tue, 15 Feb 1994, Barry Shein wrote:

> It would seem that a better solution to the problem you describe would
> be the option to save folders encrypted with some password. Then it
> wouldn't matter a lot if file security were compromised.

I think that existing utilities for secure email, namely PGP, are a
better way to go that creating Yet Another Format for encryption. PGP
has a number of features that make it much more secure than what the pine
developers would be able to whip up.

I would prefer that Pine be developed to make it easier to integrate PGP
encryption and decryption by allowing the user to pipe the contents of
the current message thru a filter.

> The only other problem it raises is the whole export regs spectre, but
> perhaps the right approach is the sysadmin or someone enters the
> command to be run on the file to encrypt or some such thing.

Which brings up the topic of the Clipper chip. The US governement
wants to make Clipper the standard because it will be able to hold the
keys to decrypt anything it wants to see.

_O_ Ryan L. Watkins [email protected]
| Academic Computing Services Cal State Long Beach - Network Support
| pgp key available via 'finger [email protected]' or key server

From [email protected] Tue Feb 15 19:45:02 1994
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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 22:29:13 -0500
From: [email protected] (Barry Shein)
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected], [email protected]
In-Reply-To: VampLestat's message of Tue, 15 Feb 1994 19:13:38 -0800 (PST) <[email protected]>
Subject: Security enhancement request...

From: VampLestat <[email protected]>
>I think that existing utilities for secure email, namely PGP, are a
>better way to go that creating Yet Another Format for encryption. PGP
>has a number of features that make it much more secure than what the pine
>developers would be able to whip up.

>I would prefer that Pine be developed to make it easier to integrate PGP
>encryption and decryption by allowing the user to pipe the contents of
>the current message thru a filter.

Yes, had you read my whole note before responding you would have seen
this is precisely what I said and could have saved us all this
follow-up.

As to PGP specifically last I heard it was still claimed to be in
violation of the RSA patent. I assume, however, you are an officer of
your university with fidiciary responsibilities so are able to make
the determination of potential liabilities for yourself. I am such an
officer of my company and have made my own decision.

>Which brings up the topic of the Clipper chip. The US governement
>wants to make Clipper the standard because it will be able to hold the
>keys to decrypt anything it wants to see.

No, actually it does not bring up the topic of the Clipper chip since
this has nothing to do with Pine development except perhaps in the
distant future (does Pine use any chips explicitly? Is it likely to?)

My suggestion about export regs was meant only as an argument for a
site-configurable command to encrypt so sites which do not have
something like DES can use something else without trouble, and the
pine folks don't have to worry about complying with export regulations
since they wouldn't be shipping any cryptography software, only a
method for incorporating your own. That would be a proper devpt issue.

-Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die | [email protected] | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202 | Login: 617-739-WRLD

From [email protected] Tue Feb 15 20:00:54 1994
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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 19:46:20 -0800 (GMT-0800)
From: VampLestat <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Security enhancement request...
To: Barry Shein <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Info List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Tue, 15 Feb 1994, Barry Shein wrote:

> Yes, had you read my whole note before responding you would have seen
> this is precisely what I said and could have saved us all this
> follow-up.

Excuse me, but I did indeed read your entire article. If you look back
at my reply, I quoted your last section, so I had obviously read it.

> As to PGP specifically last I heard it was still claimed to be in
> violation of the RSA patent.

Regardless of legal issues, all I'm asking is that pine be configured to
allow people to use filters of thier own creation, be they PGP or just
crypt. I think creating the option to pipe out the current message
would be a heck of alot more useful than simple encryption of a
folder.

> I assume, however, you are an officer of
> your university with fidiciary responsibilities so are able to make
> the determination of potential liabilities for yourself.

I'm a student here that happens to work as a student consultant doing
network support.

> No, actually it does not bring up the topic of the Clipper chip since
> this has nothing to do with Pine development except perhaps in the
> distant future (does Pine use any chips explicitly? Is it likely to?)

I think the whole topic of encryption in the US leads to discussion of
clipper. I'd rather know that my mail is indeed secure, and not able to
be opened when the government feels like snooping around in it, or when
someone else manages to get the keys. I'd rather hold the keys to my own
mail box, thank you.

> My suggestion about export regs was meant only as an argument for a
> site-configurable command to encrypt so sites which do not have
> something like DES can use something else without trouble, and the
> pine folks don't have to worry about complying with export regulations
> since they wouldn't be shipping any cryptography software, only a
> method for incorporating your own.

I wasnt asking that the pine developers ship copies of PGP with Pine,
just that the ability to pipe the current message out to a filter program
defined by the user.

_O_ Ryan L. Watkins [email protected]
| Academic Computing Services Cal State Long Beach - Network Support
| pgp key available via 'finger [email protected]' or key server

From [email protected] Wed Feb 16 03:51:07 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 11:28:49 GMT
From: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Reply-To: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Subject: enhancement req re postponed composition
To: Pine User Group <[email protected]>
X-Sender: [email protected]
Message-Id: <PCPine_p.3.89.9402151939.A10525-0100000@[134.225.33.95]>
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I just tried to postpone composition of a message so that I could get
back to my mail folder and refer to another message. I was told that
another message composition had also been postponed and so I couldn't
postpone the current one. I didn't know I had another one postponed, and
that raises this enhancement request.

I think what would be useful would be for Pine to remind me at some point
that I have already postponed a composition. Not just when I start it up,
because now that I can run it in a Window I leave it running, but also
when I Reply to or Forward a message that puts me into the composer

Alternatively, or in addition, maybe Pine could allow multiple postponed
compositions (would this tie in with the proposed /Unsent flag in imap?)?

John Stumbles [email protected]
University of Reading 0734 318435
Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AF, UK
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

From [email protected] Wed Feb 16 05:06:25 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 07:39:51 -0500
From: Robert Morris <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]> (message from VampLestat on Tue, 15 Feb 1994 19:13:38 -0800 (PST))
Subject: Re: Security enhancement request...
Reply-To: [email protected]

[ Omitted: Violent agreement between vamp and bzs about encryption
support in Pine ...]

>> Which brings up the topic of the Clipper chip. The US governement
>> wants to make Clipper the standard because it will be able to hold the
>> keys to decrypt anything it wants to see.

Clipper refers only to digital telephony cryptography. The computer
system implementation is called Capstone. The secret NSA/NIST
algorithm is Skipjack. Nothing (yet) in the current U.S. government
proposals prohibits private citizens from using any encryption schemes
they wish in their electronic mail or file transfers. There are
plenty of good reasons for opposing the key escrow, secret algorithm
and special chip proposals widely mis-referred to as the "Clipper
initiative", as well as for opposing the restrictions on encryption
software exports, but threat to software email encryption is probably
not among them.

See the Risks forum 15.47 and following, for a good discussion of the
current state or peruse documents on the gopher and ftp servers of
the Electronic Frontier Foundation, gopher.eff.org and ftp.eff.org.

User agent support for viewing encrypted mail deserves a little more
thought than simply providing hooks to external filters---which in my
opinion is a Good Thing on its own. For example, automatic reply to an
encrypted message should possibly be encrypted by default, with key
options that permit the use of the same key or one-time key
generation. Already viewed mail should possibly remain encrypted for
storage, etc. etc.

Of course, the best thing would be to embed a Lisp interpreter in Pine
with access to messages and other internal objects. Then we could use
the 20 years worth of emacs lisp contribiutions out there, including
ones which deal with encryption..... Hah, hah, only serious.

Bob Morris
[email protected]

From [email protected] Wed Feb 16 07:24:53 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 09:05:14 -0600 (CST)
From: Richard Lee <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Security enhancement request...
To: Ken Weaverling <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Mailing List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9402160922.A14051-0100000@comp>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Content-Length: 2180

Can't the people who give out accounts on your system make sure
that the .profile or .login file or whatever sets the default permissions
appropriately. That's where the responsibility lies. Sure some of us
who don't know what we're doing may override that (change it), but then
it's our fault if our mail is readable by the world. This is not, in my
view, pine's job.

On Tue, 15 Feb 1994, Ken Weaverling wrote:

> I have just been the victim of a very troubling problem. My mail directory
> was set to 755 permissions and many of my saved mail folders were set to
> 644. I also found evidence that my mail was read by others since this
> hole opened up. Being the sys administrator here, this is a real bad
> problem. I now have to go through 5 megs of saved messages, look for
> compromising information and correct it.
>
> To settle some fears, No, Pine was not responsible for this. Also created
> in my mail directory was a subdir used by Macintosh file serving software
> that I installed on Unix months ago. Apparently, it changed the permissions,
> probably based on the "Privileges" menu item on the Mac that I had checked
> incorrectly.
>
> Yes, this is a stupid user mistake of the highest order, especially since
> I should know better.
>
> But what I am suggesting is the following. Since Pine is geared towards
> novices (and idiots like myself), can it be made to double check access
> rights when opening a folder for world-read permissions and perhaps warn
> the user in the status window ("Warning: Your folder is set to be readable
> by everyone on the system")?
>
> On one hand, a MUA shouldn't have to worry about double-checking for
> stupid luser mistakes, but on the other hand, it might make a nice public
> service feature! I can't really think of many reasons why people's mail
> should be publically readable. If it is to be shared, it should be in a
> public type newsgroup or bbs type thingamajig.
>
>
>

--

Dr. Richard Lee [email protected]
Department of Philosophy Old Main 318 [email protected]
University of Arkansas phone: 501-575-5826
Fayetteville, AR 72701

From [email protected] Wed Feb 16 07:27:21 1994
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16 Feb 94 09:10:23 -0600
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 09:10:22 -0600 (CST)
From: "Daniel P. Joy" <[email protected]>
Subject: Pine, IMAP with VMS and MVS?
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

Sorry if this question has been asked before - I'm new to this mailing
list.

I'm working on setting up a mail system for our computer center. We
have Unix, Macs, and VAX's. Unix and Macs are not a problem - but
can a VAX=A0act as a IMAP client and use Pine or even VMS Mail? It=20
would be nice to just use Pine. Sometime in the future this mail
system might include an IBM mainframe running MVS/ESA. Is it possible
to run IMAP on the IBM? (please don't laugh :)

Thank you,

Daniel=A0Joy
Systems Manager
Howard Hughes Medical Institute, UT Southwestern Medical School
[email protected]=09(214)648-5034

From [email protected] Wed Feb 16 07:52:04 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 10:15:20 -0500 (EST)
From: "Carolynn Seeley ( Spring )" <[email protected]>
Subject: Pine on Solaris (fwd)
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <Pine.3.88.9402161001.C1182-0100000@offsv1>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I installed PINE 3.88 on our MUSS System in Dec. 93. MUSS is running
SunOS 5.2 Generic on a SUN Sparc. Our System Analyst reports the problem
below. Has anyone had a similar problem? I remember seeing dialogue on
the read/write lock/unlock but don't recall the details. Thank you in
advance. Your help is really appreciated.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carolynn Seeley email: [email protected]
Consultant, Desktop Computing Support [email protected]
PINE Administrator [email protected]
Computing and Information Services
McMaster University, JHE-122, Hamilton, Ontario, CANADA
(905) 525-9140 x27090
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 09:45:40 -0500 (EST)
From: Brian Beckberger <[email protected]>
To: "Carolynn E Seeley ( Spring )" <[email protected]>
Subject: Pine on Solaris

Carolynn:-

There seems to be a problem using PINE on MUSS. I am not sure if
the problem is with the students or a coding problem or a combination. I
have a large number of defunct processes. This in itself is unusual. I
have been having MUSS re-booted to clear these up once a week.
Unfortunately, the occurance of these defunct processes is increasing
more rapidly than before. I have traced these defunct processes back to
running PINE.
My request is this: Would you ask the question of the PINE
support group (or the interest group) if anyone else is experiencing this
problem. It looks like the process has the mail box open and another
Pine process can't get control of the inbox to open for read-write.

Thanks.

Brian Beckberger Voice: (905) 525-9140 Ext. 24159
Software Analyst FAX: (905) 528-3773
Computing & Information Services E-Mail: [email protected]
McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

From [email protected] Wed Feb 16 09:22:11 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 11:57:15 -0500 (EST)
From: Jeff Traigle <[email protected]>
Subject: Creating .pinerc for new users
To: Pine Information <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Is Pine supposed to copy the system pine.conf file to the user's .pinerc
file the first time it is run? If so, it doesn't appear to be doing so at
my sight for some reason. Anyone care to comment? What would be really
nice if there was a system pine.conf file and then a copy of a .pinerc
file that can be copied to a user's directory on the first startup. That
way, an admin can only put those parameters that he/she feels the user
should be messing with in the user's file.

Also, I just got through tracking down a problem with pre-authentication.
Seems one of my users runs a small program from his .cshrc file. This
apparently causes him to have to authenticate himself to the mail server.
Rather annoying little quirk. I have another user who is also being
required to authenticate, but I haven't tracked down the culprit in his
case. I'll let you know when I do. These are both people running from
SGIs in case anyone wants to know.
--
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Jeff Traigle |
| Systems Administrator |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| University of Michigan University of Michigan |
| College of Pharmacy Biophysics Research Division |
| Pharmacy Building, Room 1033 Chemistry Building, Room 3080 |
| Ann Arbor MI 48109 Ann Arbor MI 48109 |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| [email protected] Pager: (313) 617-8793 |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From [email protected] Wed Feb 16 09:34:24 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 08:54:31 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: enhancement req re postponed composition
To: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine User Group <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <PCPine_p.3.89.9402151939.A10525-0100000@[134.225.33.95]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
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John,

Currently, Pine reminds you when you enter the composer for an original
composition. I think it would be terribly distracting to be prompted to
resume a postponed composition on reply or forward. We do plan to implement
multiple postponed compositions in the future. I don't know how or if it
will tie in with the /UNSENT proposal. Thanks for the request!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Wed, 16 Feb 1994, John Stumbles wrote:

> I just tried to postpone composition of a message so that I could get
> back to my mail folder and refer to another message. I was told that
> another message composition had also been postponed and so I couldn't
> postpone the current one. I didn't know I had another one postponed, and
> that raises this enhancement request.
>
> I think what would be useful would be for Pine to remind me at some point
> that I have already postponed a composition. Not just when I start it up,
> because now that I can run it in a Window I leave it running, but also
> when I Reply to or Forward a message that puts me into the composer
>
> Alternatively, or in addition, maybe Pine could allow multiple postponed
> compositions (would this tie in with the proposed /Unsent flag in imap?)?
>
> John Stumbles [email protected]
> University of Reading 0734 318435
> Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AF, UK
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>
>

From [email protected] Wed Feb 16 10:15:45 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 09:45:38 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Creating .pinerc for new users
To: Jeff Traigle <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Information <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Jeff,

Pine generates a new .pinerc from internal defaults for new users and
automatically adds any entries that were not found in the original. This
is to make sure that all new variables are added after upgrades.

It sounds like you are on the right track with the authentication problem.
Manually issuing the "rsh host /etc/rimapd" can give some clues if you are
not already using that.

Thanks for the report!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Wed, 16 Feb 1994, Jeff Traigle wrote:

>
> Is Pine supposed to copy the system pine.conf file to the user's .pinerc
> file the first time it is run? If so, it doesn't appear to be doing so at
> my sight for some reason. Anyone care to comment? What would be really
> nice if there was a system pine.conf file and then a copy of a .pinerc
> file that can be copied to a user's directory on the first startup. That
> way, an admin can only put those parameters that he/she feels the user
> should be messing with in the user's file.
>
> Also, I just got through tracking down a problem with pre-authentication.
> Seems one of my users runs a small program from his .cshrc file. This
> apparently causes him to have to authenticate himself to the mail server.
> Rather annoying little quirk. I have another user who is also being
> required to authenticate, but I haven't tracked down the culprit in his
> case. I'll let you know when I do. These are both people running from
> SGIs in case anyone wants to know.
> --
> +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
> | Jeff Traigle |
> | Systems Administrator |
> +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
> | University of Michigan University of Michigan |
> | College of Pharmacy Biophysics Research Division |
> | Pharmacy Building, Room 1033 Chemistry Building, Room 3080 |
> | Ann Arbor MI 48109 Ann Arbor MI 48109 |
> +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
> | [email protected] Pager: (313) 617-8793 |
> +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
>
>

From [email protected] Wed Feb 16 10:15:49 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 17:52:32 +0000 (GMT)
From: Barry Cornelius <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Barry Cornelius <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Creating .pinerc for new users
To: Jeff Traigle <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Information <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89-940130.9402161738.A11933-0100000@hercules>
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> Also, I just got through tracking down a problem with pre-authentication.
> Seems one of my users runs a small program from his .cshrc file. This
> apparently causes him to have to authenticate himself to the mail server.
> Rather annoying little quirk. I have another user who is also being
> required to authenticate, but I haven't tracked down the culprit in his
> case. I'll let you know when I do. These are both people running from
> SGIs in case anyone wants to know.

There are a number of reasons why the user has to type their username and
password each time that they use Pine. I have tracked down the following:

(1) The .cshrc file does output to the screen, e.g., it uses the
echo command. The user will need to remove the appropriate
command(s) from the .cshrc file.

(2) The .cshrc file contains one or more of the Unix commands biff,
mesg, stty. Probably the command can be moved to the .login file.

The problem also occurs if the file /etc/rimapd has not been set up on the
IMAP machine. This would affect all users that IMAP into that machine.

The problem will also occur if the Pine code executes the wrong command
when it wants to set up a remote shell from the machine running Pine to
the IMAP machine. For example, if the code says that the remote shell
command is /usr/bin/rsh when in fact the command on the machine running
Pine is /usr/ucb/rsh or /usr/bin/remsh. Note that both of these would
affect all users of Pine on the machine running Pine.

If other people know of any more reasons, then I would be interested to
see them. I also think it would be useful if this information were
included in the intended FAQ.

I think some of our users believe that user-authentication is a part of
the way in which Pine works, because it has always done that whenever they
use Pine. It would be nice to have more ammunition to dispel this rumour.

--
Barry Cornelius Durham (091 or +44 91) 374 4717
Information Technology Service, IT Service Office: 374 2892
University of Durham, Durham. Fax: 374 3741
DH1 3LE, UK E-mail: [email protected]

From [email protected] Wed Feb 16 10:36:07 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 13:12:54 -0500 (EST)
From: Jeff Traigle <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Creating .pinerc for new users
To: Pine Information <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89-940130.9402161738.A11933-0100000@hercules>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Just found the problem with the other user's setup. His .cshrc file was
missing an endif. Found it by trying to manually run rimapd with rsh as
suggested earlier.

--
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Jeff Traigle |
| Systems Administrator |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| University of Michigan University of Michigan |
| College of Pharmacy Biophysics Research Division |
| Pharmacy Building, Room 1033 Chemistry Building, Room 3080 |
| Ann Arbor MI 48109 Ann Arbor MI 48109 |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| [email protected] Pager: (313) 617-8793 |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From [email protected] Wed Feb 16 10:42:47 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 18:05:04 +0000 (GMT)
From: Barry Cornelius <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine on Solaris
To: "Carolynn Seeley ( Spring )" <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.88.9402161001.C1182-0100000@offsv1>
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On Wed, 16 Feb 1994, Carolynn Seeley ( Spring ) wrote:

> I installed PINE 3.88 on our MUSS System in Dec. 93. MUSS is running
> SunOS 5.2 Generic on a SUN Sparc. Our System Analyst reports the problem
> below. Has anyone had a similar problem? ...
> ... There seems to be a problem using PINE on MUSS. I am not sure if
> the problem is with the students or a coding problem or a combination. I
> have a large number of defunct processes. This in itself is unusual. I
> have been having MUSS re-booted to clear these up once a week.
> Unfortunately, the occurance of these defunct processes is increasing
> more rapidly than before. I have traced these defunct processes back to
> running PINE.
> My request is this: Would you ask the question of the PINE
> support group (or the interest group) if anyone else is experiencing this
> problem. It looks like the process has the mail box open and another
> Pine process can't get control of the inbox to open for read-write.

I reported a problem to the pine-info mailing list last week, but got no
response. Each day I am having to delete about 10 processes left around
by uses of Pine. Help! Anybody got any ideas of what's going on. The
message is repeated below. Reading your description above, it would
appear that my problem is different to yours.

Date: Tue, 8 Feb 1994 16:45:11 +0000 (GMT)
From: Barry Cornelius <[email protected]>
To: Pine Info Mailing List <[email protected]>
Subject: one rsh left around after Pine finishes

We run three variants of Pine 3.89:

sun for computers running SunOS 4.1.2 and SunOS 4.1.3
sol for computers running SunOS 5.2 and SunOS 5.3
hpp for computers running HP-UX 9.01

All uses of Pine on these machines use IMAP to access the user's inbox.
The IMAP daemons run on a SunOS 4.1.3 computer called venus. We are using
the version supplied with Pine 3.89, namely IMAP2bis Version 7.5(72).

When Pine is run, it sets up two rsh processes to venus:

rsh venus exec /etc/rimapd

When Pine 3.89 (or 3.88) is run on a SunOS 5.2 machine, sometimes one of
the two rsh processes still remains after the user has left Pine. This
happens quite often during the day. But I haven't worked out why it
happens on some occasions and not on others.

Is this a known problem? Has anyone else seen this?

--
Barry Cornelius Durham (091 or +44 91) 374 4717
Information Technology Service, IT Service Office: 374 2892
University of Durham, Durham. Fax: 374 3741
DH1 3LE, UK E-mail: [email protected]

From [email protected] Wed Feb 16 10:56:14 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 18:30:35 GMT
From: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Subject: PC Pine crashes
To: Pine User Group <[email protected]>,
Pine Mission Control <[email protected]>
X-Sender: [email protected]
Message-Id: <PCPine_p.3.89.9402161827.B10785-0100000@[134.225.33.95]>
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Aargh!

Just had another Pine crash - 3.89, running under windows. It did warn me
that there might not be enough memory to send the message I was composing,
but then it bombed out without (as far as I know) saving the message
anywhere!

Grrr!

John Stumbles [email protected]
University of Reading 0734 318435
Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AF, UK
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

From [email protected] Wed Feb 16 11:17:57 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 13:53:50 -0500 (EST)
From: Jason Cross <[email protected]>
Subject: Mime decoder
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <Pine.3.88.9402161355.i568-0100000@majorca>
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Is there a mime decoder available for those users who receive
messages with mime attachments, yet do not have a mime mailer?

ciao,
Jason Cross <[email protected]>
EDS
Troy, Mi.

From [email protected] Wed Feb 16 11:18:19 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 18:53:25 GMT
From: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: enhancement req re postponed composition
To: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Cc: John Stumbles <[email protected]>,
Pine User Group <[email protected]>
X-Sender: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <PCPine_p.3.89.9402161817.A10785-0100000@[134.225.33.95]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Wed, 16 Feb 1994, David L Miller wrote:

> Currently, Pine reminds you when you enter the composer for an original
> composition. I think it would be terribly distracting to be prompted to
> resume a postponed composition on reply or forward. We do plan to implement
> multiple postponed compositions in the future. I don't know how or if it
> will tie in with the /UNSENT proposal. Thanks for the request!

Thanks, I think multiple postponed composition is the way to go. Funnily
enough, in composing this reply (or rather the version before, 'coz Pine
crashed out and lost that message :-( - see my earlier bug report) I got a
flash that I had new mail from David L Miller re: postponed composition,
so I postponed and went to see your mail (it was just the other copy of
this message which you'd sent to me and to the list) and then returned.

Really it's all a workaround for not having a true Windows Pine, in which
the index, received message viewer and composer are separate windows with
multiple instances which the user can swap between. I'm not hassling you
guys - I'm sure you have lives outside work :-) - just making a (wishful)
observation!

John Stumbles [email protected]
University of Reading 0734 318435
Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AF, UK
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

> On Wed, 16 Feb 1994, I (John Stumbles) wrote:
>
> > I think what would be useful would be for Pine to remind me at some point
> > that I have already postponed a composition. Not just when I start it up,
> > ... but also
> > when I Reply to or Forward a message that puts me into the composer
> >
> > Alternatively, or in addition, maybe Pine could allow multiple postponed
> > compositions (would this tie in with the proposed /Unsent flag in imap?)?

From [email protected] Wed Feb 16 11:27:03 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 19:57:34 +0100 (MET)
From: Wojtek Bogusz <[email protected]>
Subject: Local sending mails
To: Pine Information <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9402161949.A6614-0100000@zow44>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-Charset: US-ASCII
X-Char-Esc: 29

Hello !

I thought it would be nice if pine would add information read from
passwd when you mail to local user (with out domain name). You could have
a switch in pinerc telling if you would like pine to behave in that way
or not. It would be nice too having a switch for adding a domain name to
the addresses.

Best regards !

Wojtek

From [email protected] Wed Feb 16 11:30:52 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Feb 94 13:01:14 -0600
From: Johnny Kwan <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: move mail spool file to home directory

On our network the users' incoming mail is spooled in /var/spool/mail
which is NFS mounted on all client hosts. To reduce the mail server
load, we would like to move the user's mail spool file to the user's
home directory when the user invokes pine. I set up the mail_link with
the mbox driver in building pine. But it still doesn't do what we
want. Anyone knows how to accomplish that?

Johnny Kwan
Office of Telecommunication Services
University of Texas System
[email protected]

From [email protected] Wed Feb 16 11:30:55 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 11:01:51 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: your mail
To: Laurel Cunningham <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Laurel,

Thanks for the request!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Tue, 15 Feb 1994, Laurel Cunningham wrote:

> It would be most helpful to have multiple personal and shared
> addressbooks included in the next release of pine.
>

From [email protected] Wed Feb 16 11:36:08 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 11:08:16 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: address book request
To: "Ellen C. Franklin" <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Ellen,

Thanks for the request!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Tue, 15 Feb 1994, Ellen C. Franklin wrote:

> Please add the capacity for multiple personal (or personnel) and shared
> address books to Pine. Thank you.
>

From [email protected] Wed Feb 16 11:39:35 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 11:10:20 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Addressbooks for PINE
To: "Gayland G. Gump" <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Gayland,

Thanks for the kind words! As I mentioned in a separate message, we will
do our best to get multiple addressbooks implemented soon.

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Tue, 15 Feb 1994, Gayland G. Gump wrote:

> I'd like to express our appreciation for the work you are doing with
> PINE. I believe it is of great benefit to the Internet Community. Not
> to appear ungreatful, but we understand that you are planning on
> providing multiple personal and shared addressbook capabilities in a
> future release of PINE. We are trying to move to an electronic office
> and would greatly appreciate if these capabilities were made available
> ASAP. In addition, we are looking for scheduling/calendar capabilities
> which would ideally be integrated into our mail system. We understand
> that these may be on you "long list". It would be great if these
> capabilities were given more attention sooner than later if possible.
> Thanks.
>
> Gayland G. Gump
> One of the Good Guys!
>

From [email protected] Wed Feb 16 11:41:53 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 11:14:13 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Another place for ^C
To: Richard Lee <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9401232206.A14249-0100000@comp>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Richard,

If you press 'V' in this situation, you will go back to the message
view. With the current design of the top level screens, ^C is not really
a meaningful operation. Thanks for the request!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Sun, 23 Jan 1994, Richard Lee wrote:

> Sometimes ^C would be welcome where it is not available. I was
> reading a letter in my inbox and wanted to print it. I don't often do
> that, so I forgot what letter of the alphabet is used to print mail this
> week. I remembered it wasn't "P". So I tried "L." Naturally I got into
> a screen allowing me to change folders. I didn't want to be there. I
> wanted to return to what I was. But no, ^C wouldn't let me do that. I
> had to return to the main menu, go from there to the index, then down to
> the message I was reading, then read that. A simple ^C would have been
> easier.
>
> --
>
> Dr. Richard Lee [email protected]
> Department of Philosophy Old Main 318 [email protected]
> University of Arkansas phone: 501-575-5826
> Fayetteville, AR 72701
>

From [email protected] Wed Feb 16 11:50:08 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Feb 94 13:21:37 -0600
From: Johnny Kwan <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: move spool mail file to user home directory

Regarding my previous message asking info to have pine to move
the user's mail spool file to the user's home directory, after
I did a "make clean" and make pine again, it works. Now
the mail spool file is moved to ~/mbox after pine is run.

Johnny Kwan

From [email protected] Wed Feb 16 12:17:28 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 11:50:37 -0800 (GMT-0800)
From: VampLestat <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: move mail spool file to home directory
To: Johnny Kwan <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Info List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Wed, 16 Feb 1994, Johnny Kwan wrote:

> On our network the users' incoming mail is spooled in /var/spool/mail
> which is NFS mounted on all client hosts. To reduce the mail server
> load, we would like to move the user's mail spool file to the user's
> home directory when the user invokes pine. I set up the mail_link with
> the mbox driver in building pine. But it still doesn't do what we
> want. Anyone knows how to accomplish that?

The must have an existing ~/mbox before pine will start moving over the
mail. I accomplished this by creating an empty ~/mbox for every user with
a .pinerc file and then adding an empty one to the default skeleton given
to new accounts.

_O_ Ryan L. Watkins [email protected]
| Academic Computing Services Cal State Long Beach - Network Support
| pgp key available via 'finger [email protected]' or key server

From [email protected] Wed Feb 16 12:18:18 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 11:55:26 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Control-D
To: Matt Simmons <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Mailing List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Matt,

Thanks for the suggestion! We'll put it on the list...

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Tue, 15 Feb 1994, Matt Simmons wrote:

> Would it be possible to define Control-D on the index screen and main
> menu as an alias to Quit? Many UNIX programs do this (ftp, lynx, Bourne
> shell, C-Shell) and it's become a habit to exit...
>
> [email protected] Matt Simmons Bradley University, Peoria, IL
> Found in the BU Scout Personals:
> "Jane--I don't want to be alone again for Valentine's Day. I want to work
> this out. I was just hurt that you would sleep with my best friend ...
> repeatedly ... in my bed. Actually, never mind. Go to hell. John"
>
>

From [email protected] Wed Feb 16 12:20:17 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 12:56:41 -0700 (MST)
From: Jim Davis <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Jim Davis <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine on Solaris
To: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89-940130.9402161725.A11933-0100000@hercules>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
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On Wed, 16 Feb 1994, Barry Cornelius wrote:

> When Pine is run, it sets up two rsh processes to venus:
>
> rsh venus exec /etc/rimapd
>
> When Pine 3.89 (or 3.88) is run on a SunOS 5.2 machine, sometimes one of
> the two rsh processes still remains after the user has left Pine. This
> happens quite often during the day. But I haven't worked out why it
> happens on some occasions and not on others.
>
> Is this a known problem? Has anyone else seen this?

I've seen what might be a related problem with the 2.3 rshd. If you run
truss on the stuck process and see it spinning in a 'wait() Err#10
ECHILD' loop then it's the same problem. Haven't seen anything about rshd
in the Solaris patch database; maybe one of this week's socket/tcp/kernel
patches will fix it. Then again, maybe not.
--
Jim Davis | "I fire up the bulk eraser."
[email protected] | -- BOfH

From [email protected] Wed Feb 16 12:57:36 1994
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id m0pWsv2-0000OZC; Wed, 16 Feb 1994 22:32:24 +0200 (SAST)
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 22:32:16 +0200 (SAST)
From: Alan Barrett <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Mime decoder
To: Jason Cross <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.88.9402161355.i568-0100000@majorca>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

> Is there a mime decoder available for those users who receive
> messages with mime attachments, yet do not have a mime mailer?

Since breaking a MIME multipart message into its component parts is very
easy to do with a text editor (just look for the "--boundary" lines), I
suspect that you are really looking for a base64 decoder. I have written
a perl package (available from ftp://ftp.ee.und.ac.za/pub/unix/base64.pl)
that includes functions for converting in all six possible directions
between base64, uuencode and pure binary formats; using these functions,
a simple base64 decoder is a one-line perl program:

require 'base64.pl'; undef $/; $_ = <>; print &base64'b64decode($_);

--apb
Alan Barrett, Dept. of Electronic Eng., Univ. of Natal, Durban, South Africa
RFC822: [email protected]

From [email protected] Wed Feb 16 13:15:29 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Feb 94 14:46:32 CST
From: "John Ladwig" <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
To: Jason Cross <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Mime decoder
In-Reply-To: Jason Cross's message <Pine.3.88.9402161355.i568-0100000@majorca> of 16 February 1994
References: <Pine.3.88.9402161355.i568-0100000@majorca>

>>>>> On Wed, 16 Feb 1994 13:53:50 -0500 (EST), Jason Cross <[email protected]> said:

Jason> Is there a mime decoder available for those users who receive
Jason> messages with mime attachments, yet do not have a mime mailer?

Metamail for *NIX or DOS, current version 2.6 to my knowledge,
contains most all the program necessary to deal with MIME. This does
not include graphic viewers and the like, but will create and chop up
all MIME messages.

Metamail is available at:

ftp://thumper.bellcore.com//pub/nsb

-jml

From [email protected] Wed Feb 16 13:38:46 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 16:12:47 -0500 (EST)
From: Jeff Traigle <[email protected]>
Subject: Another pine request
To: Pine Information <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Just tried using pine under a new account and noticed something else that
I'd like to see come in an upcoming version. Pine currently creates the
mail directory for postponed and interrupted messages. It doesn't create
the directory(ies) defined by folder-collections in the .pinerc file if
they don't already exist. It would be a welcome additional feature, I
think. Enlightenment is appreciated on the matter.

Regarding the earlier problem with the user running a program from his
cshrc file and being forced to authenticate, the person who suggested
the interactive shell check was on the mark. Works like a charm now.

--
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Jeff Traigle |
| Systems Administrator |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| University of Michigan University of Michigan |
| College of Pharmacy Biophysics Research Division |
| Pharmacy Building, Room 1033 Chemistry Building, Room 3080 |
| Ann Arbor MI 48109 Ann Arbor MI 48109 |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| [email protected] Pager: (313) 617-8793 |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From [email protected] Wed Feb 16 13:42:59 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 13:16:21 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Default Folder Name Selection (PC-Pine)
To: "Bill Ouchark, Networks Group, (617) 495-1271" <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected], [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Bill,

Sorry about the slow reply! This is on our to-do list for an upcoming
version of Pine.

Thanks for the suggestion!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Wed, 26 Jan 1994, Bill Ouchark, Networks Group, (617) 495-1271 wrote:

> Is there a way in PC-Pine 3.89 to set the name of the folder
> used by default for Saves? It defaults to "savemail", but as
> I have a remote folder collection used as the default I would
> prefer to use "saved-messages". I did notice the
> "saved-msg-name-rule=" option in NEWSRC, but it doesn't appear
> to have the option of choosing a specific name.
>
> -Bill Ouchark-

From [email protected] Wed Feb 16 14:20:17 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 13:47:21 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Another pine request
To: Jeff Traigle <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Information <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Jeff,

Thanks for the suggestion! I'm not sure how quickly we will pursue this
though, since we consider folder-collections to be a power-user feature,
and power-users should know how to create directories ;)

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Wed, 16 Feb 1994, Jeff Traigle wrote:

>
> Just tried using pine under a new account and noticed something else that
> I'd like to see come in an upcoming version. Pine currently creates the
> mail directory for postponed and interrupted messages. It doesn't create
> the directory(ies) defined by folder-collections in the .pinerc file if
> they don't already exist. It would be a welcome additional feature, I
> think. Enlightenment is appreciated on the matter.
>
> Regarding the earlier problem with the user running a program from his
> .cshrc file and being forced to authenticate, the person who suggested
> the interactive shell check was on the mark. Works like a charm now.
>
> --
> +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
> | Jeff Traigle |
> | Systems Administrator |
> +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
> | University of Michigan University of Michigan |
> | College of Pharmacy Biophysics Research Division |
> | Pharmacy Building, Room 1033 Chemistry Building, Room 3080 |
> | Ann Arbor MI 48109 Ann Arbor MI 48109 |
> +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
> | [email protected] Pager: (313) 617-8793 |
> +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
>
>

From [email protected] Wed Feb 16 18:34:00 1994
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Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 13:08:11 +1100 (DST)
From: Simon McClenahan <[email protected]>
Subject: How to make pine more elm-like?
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Hi,
I was a happy user of elm until I became a happier user with
pine. I have elm-style-save=yes in my .pinerc , but there are other
things that I miss from elm.

1) the ability to sort-tag-save messages from one mailbox to another

2) a feature that I found most desirable and is probably possible with
pine but I haven't figure it out, is the automatic saving of composed or
reply messages in the mailbox corresponding with the To: address, i.e.
this is the line in .elm/elmrc (I think)
# save messages, incoming and outbound, by login name of sender/recipient?
savename = ON

Any thoughts on an X interface to pine as well? :)

When is the next version coming out? I have 3.89

cheers,

[email protected] \CSIRO Supercomputing Support Group
CSIRO Division of Information Technology\ tel: +61 3 282 2623
723 Swanston St, Carlton 3053 AUSTRALIA \ fax: +61 3 282 2600
All I ask is a chance to prove that money can't make me happy.

From [email protected] Wed Feb 16 18:36:56 1994
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17 Feb 94 3:13 MEZ
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 03:11:28 PST
From: Eigil Krogh Sorensen <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Mime decoder
To: Jason Cross <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
X-Sender: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.88.9402161355.i568-0100000@majorca>
Message-Id: <PCPine_f.3.89.9402170316.E10255-0100000@vkipc22>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Wed, 16 Feb 1994, Jason Cross wrote:

> Is there a mime decoder available for those users who receive
> messages with mime attachments, yet do not have a mime mailer?
>
>
> ciao,
> Jason Cross <[email protected]>
> EDS
> Troy, Mi.
>
>

Yes there is. It's called metamail. Metamail is used by elm if it
receives mails with MIME stuff (if you configured elm to support MIME of
course. Metamail does not follow elm, so search for "metamail" not "elm".

Eigil Krogh Sorensen
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Address: Water Quality Institute
Science Park Aarhus
10, Gustav Wieds Vej
DK-8000 Aarhus C
DENMARK.

Phone: +45 86 20 20 00 or
+45 86 20 20 11 local 2114

Fax: +45 86 19 75 11

E-mail: [email protected]
----------------------------------------------------------------------

From [email protected] Wed Feb 16 22:04:45 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 21:45:04 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: How to make pine more elm-like?
To: Simon McClenahan <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Simon,

The "elm-style-save" option is now obsolete, having been replaced by a
couple feature-list options. At least the first of your suggestions will
be available in the next release of Pine. We do not have any current
plans for an X interface, although we have toyed with the idea of some
primitive mouse support, about like PC-Pine has. We are hoping to have
the next release ready about late spring.

Thanks for the suggestions!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Thu, 17 Feb 1994, Simon McClenahan wrote:

> Hi,
> I was a happy user of elm until I became a happier user with
> pine. I have elm-style-save=yes in my .pinerc , but there are other
> things that I miss from elm.
>
> 1) the ability to sort-tag-save messages from one mailbox to another
>
> 2) a feature that I found most desirable and is probably possible with
> pine but I haven't figure it out, is the automatic saving of composed or
> reply messages in the mailbox corresponding with the To: address, i.e.
> this is the line in .elm/elmrc (I think)
> # save messages, incoming and outbound, by login name of sender/recipient?
> savename = ON
>
>
> Any thoughts on an X interface to pine as well? :)
>
>
> When is the next version coming out? I have 3.89
>
>
> cheers,
>
> [email protected] \CSIRO Supercomputing Support Group
> CSIRO Division of Information Technology\ tel: +61 3 282 2623
> 723 Swanston St, Carlton 3053 AUSTRALIA \ fax: +61 3 282 2600
> All I ask is a chance to prove that money can't make me happy.
>

From [email protected] Wed Feb 16 23:06:35 1994
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Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 08:44:07 +0200
From: Kari Sutela <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Mime decoder
To: Jason Cross <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.88.9402161355.i568-0100000@majorca>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Wed, 16 Feb 1994, Jason Cross wrote:

> Is there a mime decoder available for those users who receive
> messages with mime attachments, yet do not have a mime mailer?

Yep, there is something called metamail.

/KS

From [email protected] Thu Feb 17 03:19:22 1994
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id AA07188; Thu, 17 Feb 1994 05:47:16 -0500
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 05:47:15 -0500 (EST)
From: "Michael A. Crowley" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Default Folder Name Selection (PC-Pine)
Cc: [email protected], [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

As a workaround, make a link in your mail directory between the
saved messages file that pine uses and the name you want to use.

-mike

On Wed, 16 Feb 1994, David L Miller wrote:

> Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 13:16:21 -0800 (PST)
> From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
> To: "Bill Ouchark, Networks Group, (617) 495-1271"
<[email protected]>
> Cc: [email protected], [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Default Folder Name Selection (PC-Pine)
>
> Bill,
>
> Sorry about the slow reply! This is on our to-do list for an upcoming
> version of Pine.
>
> Thanks for the suggestion!
>
> --DLM
>
> On Wed, 26 Jan 1994, Bill Ouchark, Networks Group, (617) 495-1271 wrote:
>
> > Is there a way in PC-Pine 3.89 to set the name of the folder
> > used by default for Saves? It defaults to "savemail", but as
> > I have a remote folder collection used as the default I would
> > prefer to use "saved-messages". I did notice the
> > "saved-msg-name-rule=" option in NEWSRC, but it doesn't appear
> > to have the option of choosing a specific name.
> >
> > -Bill Ouchark-
>

From [email protected] Thu Feb 17 06:44:29 1994
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17 Feb 94 08:34:10 -0600
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 08:34:09 -0600 (CST)
From: "Daniel P. Joy" <[email protected]>
Subject: Pine, IMAP and VMS - summary
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Regarding my question yesterday about Pine and IMAP on VMS. I received
some information from Innosoft about their PMDF product - maybe
other VMS users will find it useful.

The next version of Innosoft's PMDF (4.3?) will have Pine and an IMAP
client for VMS. I believe it will be released in about one month.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Daniel Joy
Systems Manager Internet: [email protected]
Howard Hughes Medical Institute BITNET: joy@utsw
UT Southwestern Medical School Phone: (214) 648-5034

From [email protected] Thu Feb 17 09:34:50 1994
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Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 09:06:04 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: help ?
To: SANJEEV SINGH <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Sanjeev,

Pine does not yet support MIME external-body constructs, but we do plan
to implement it in the future. Until that time, you will need to
manually execute ftp outside of Pine. Sorry.

Thanks for the request!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Fri, 11 Feb 1994, SANJEEV SINGH wrote:

> Hello! pine group
>
>
> How can I execute *ftp* command from message body (or some
> where else ? ) of pine to fetch data from remote M/C in
> case message body is large enough.
>
> can someone help me ?
>
> thanx in advance.
>
> -sanjeev

From [email protected] Thu Feb 17 09:53:37 1994
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Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 16:14:15 +0000 (WET)
From: Martin Beenham <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Martin Beenham <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Reading News Question
To: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.07.9402150822.A27345-b100000@green>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

On Tue, 15 Feb 1994, ILAN GRAIFER wrote:
> I don't think pine should become a full news-reader. There are many
> readers that are both powerful and easy to use and which are easily
> obtainable on the net.
> I would prefer to see pine as a mail agent only, which does what
> it is supposed to do and doesn't try to be an all in one package.

There is a high degree of common functionality and purpose between news
and mail. I for one strongly prefer them to be combined. As a busy
administrator of many systems two into one goes down a treat in reducing
the number of packages to maintain. Also, I don't wish to hop about
between packages when replying to news articles via mail, forwarding etc.

I use and prefer a common news and mail utility on my PC at home. I think
you are underestimating the PINE team in implying that they wouldn't make
as good a job of it as existing news offerings on the net. I'm sure
they'd do even better! In any case, if you don't want to use PINE's
in-built news facilities you don't have to. There seems little reason not
to continue the logical path on which PINE has embarked.

> I would like to suggest adding an option of making an uuencoded attachment
> in addition to the MIME attachments. Many people don't have MIME, and it
> will be nice if it was possible to send a uuencoded file to those people
> from within pine. An automatic decoding would be nice as well :)

That gets my vote. Even though it's easy to do by shelling out it's a
common enough operation to warrent a built-in facility IMHO.

Regards,
--
Martin G. Beenham "IT - what's that?" (martin@compass)|Tel +44 635 550660
Compass Computer Group, Newbury, Berks, UK RG14 5PX |Fax +44 635 521268
Internet: [email protected] (@work)
[email protected] (@home)

From [email protected] Thu Feb 17 10:51:26 1994
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Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 10:30:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Philip D. Young" <[email protected]>
Subject: addressbooks
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I would like to see multiple personal and shared addressbooks included in
the next release of pine.

Phil Young

From [email protected] Thu Feb 17 11:46:43 1994
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Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 11:21:44 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: addressbooks
To: "Philip D. Young" <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Philip,

Thanks for the request!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Thu, 17 Feb 1994, Philip D. Young wrote:

> I would like to see multiple personal and shared addressbooks included in
> the next release of pine.
>
>
> Phil Young
>

From [email protected] Thu Feb 17 12:56:34 1994
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Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 12:25:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Elmar Kurgpold <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Elmar Kurgpold <[email protected]>
Subject: mail thinks user is someone else
To: Pine Info <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9402171132.L17356-0100000@hal>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

I am not positive this is a Pine problem, and now I can't even duplicate
it. Just created a new user "mtom", and I've triple-checked it by now.
We have another user "stom" on a different system (but same NIS domain).
For a while, mtom was sending out messages that had two From headers,
which by itself doesn't seem out of the ordinary, but maybe someone who's
more up on the RFC than I can correct me. The problem is the headers were
different-- the first said "mtom" and the second said "stom". The comment
(GCOS) field was even filled in accordingly on the second "From" (which
was actually "From:" with the colon).

Both users said they could not find the message in the sent-mail folder,
although here I am telling you what I found in this folder.

If you have an idea what might be causing this, I'd like to hear it. If
someone can definitely rule out that this might be a Pine problem, I'll be
glad to hear that too. :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Elmar Kurgpold | EMAIL: [email protected] |
| Network Administrator | VOICE: (213)740-2571 |
| University of Southern California | FAX: (213)740-5502 |
| The Law Center | |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

From [email protected] Thu Feb 17 14:26:16 1994
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Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 14:02:35 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Multiple Personal and Shared Addressbooks
To: John Trimble <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

John,

Thanks for the suggestion!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Tue, 15 Feb 1994, John Trimble wrote:

> I would like to see multiple personal and shared addressbooks in the next
> version of pine.
>
> ****************************************************************************
> John Trimble VOICE: (206) 737-2039
> Washington State University FAX: (206) 690-4611
> 1812 E. McLoughlin Blvd.
> Vancouver, WA 98663-3597 INTERNET: [email protected]
> ****************************************************************************

From [email protected] Thu Feb 17 14:27:43 1994
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Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 14:08:11 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: new release of pine
To: Raymond Pendergast <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Raymond,

Thanks for the suggestion!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Tue, 15 Feb 1994, Raymond Pendergast wrote:

> I'd like to see multiple personal and shared address books in the
> new release of pine. thanks.
>
>

From [email protected] Thu Feb 17 14:27:56 1994
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Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 14:02:11 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Multiple Delete/Jump to top
To: Virtual Dave Lankes <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Dave,

The next version of Pine will include all of these. Thanks for the
suggestions!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Tue, 15 Feb 1994, Virtual Dave Lankes wrote:

> I remember some mention of a multiple delete in coming versions of Pine.
> This is a VERY useful feature I'd like to see implemented. The ability to
> tag messages 1-30 for deletion. Thi might work as a command line option
> or like Pico's multiple line selection.
>
> Another feature that is standard in other mail programs and would make a
> lot of sense to me...the ability to jump to the top or bottom of a message
> (or file in Pico).
>
> ...........................................................
> : "Virtual" Dave Lankes [email protected] :
> : AskERIC Researcher "This is not your father's Internet" :
> : School of Information Studies Syracuse University :
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>

From [email protected] Thu Feb 17 14:31:00 1994
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Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 14:13:16 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: PC Pico enhancement
To: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine User Group <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <PCPine_p.3.89.9401311322.C10523-0100000@[134.225.33.95]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

John,

Unfortunately the meanings of those keys are not clearly defined on
non-PC keyboards. Many keyboards just send a NULL for both of them...

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Mon, 31 Jan 1994, John Stumbles wrote:

> I keep finding myself using Control with the left- and right-arrow keys to
> try to get around: this is pretty standard key-binding in PC editors -
> could it be implemented in PICO?
>
> John Stumbles [email protected]
> Reading University 0734 318435
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>

From [email protected] Thu Feb 17 15:39:31 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 09:24:28 +0100
From: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Compression in PINE ?
To: pine-info <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Mon, 14 Feb 1994, David L Miller wrote:
>
> This has been suggested before. Our basic opinion is that disk space is
> cheaper than the extra CPUs we would have to buy to support compression
> for a given amount of raw data.

The rest of the PC world seems to think otherwise.....

From [email protected] Thu Feb 17 15:57:28 1994
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Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 15:20:52 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine / PTX futures.
To: Dave King <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Information <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Dave,

The future of Dynix/ptx here is somewhat uncertain. Presuming our Sequent
stays around that long, we will certainly port Pine to version 4. Otherwise
we will support it the best we can with user contributions.

Thanks for the request!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Tue, 1 Feb 1994, Dave King wrote:

> We use Pine 3.89 on DYNIX/ptx 2.0.4 with no problems.
>
> Sequent recently told me that ptx version 4 will be released sometime in
> Q1/Q2 of this year. I'm aware that ptx is a mjor Pine platform, and that
> Pine runs on ptx at UW, but ...
>
> Could someone please advise if Pine will be ported to ptx version 4 when
> it is released?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Dave King, Admin. Computing Services Manager, University of Bristol
> [email protected] (JANET) [email protected] (INTERNET)
>

From [email protected] Thu Feb 17 16:55:23 1994
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Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 16:09:50 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: PINE built for XENIX?
To: Alex Brown <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected], [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Alex,

Sorry about the very slow reply, we have been swamped. Unfortunately we
do not have alot of experience/expertise with the older SYSV
environments. About the closest thing we would have is an as yet
untested ISC port. In the long run you might be better off just
converting the whole system to Linux or NetBSD, both of which have
working Pine implementations.

Thanks for the request!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Mon, 3 Jan 1994, Alex Brown wrote:

> Hello --
>
> I'm trying to provide a small school with a simple mail+news installation;
> the system available is 80386 Xenix 2.3.2. I have an incomplete PICO port
> working, but there seem to be some more fundamental problems with PINE.
> As I'm doing this as a volunteer, I don't have much time to put into solving
> them. I'd appreciate any contact information regarding ports of PINE to
> Xenix, SCO UNIX, 386/ix, or any other 386 System V environment.
>
> I'd appreciate reply by mail -- I'm not a subscriber to this list.
> Please reply to the address below, not the origination address of this
> note. Thanks!
>
> Alex Brown
> [email protected]
>
>
> > Date: Mon, 3 Jan 1994 01:36:05 -0500 (EST)
> > From: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
> > Subject: Re: PINE built for XENIX?
> > To: Alex Brown <[email protected]>
> > Cc: [email protected], [email protected]
> > In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
> > Message-Id: <[email protected]>
> > References: <[email protected]>
> > Mime-Version: 1.0
> > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> > Status: R
>
> > Hello Alex,
> > I'm not so directly involved with Pine anymore. I think some folks
> > have made attempts, but no one has really got it running. You might try
> > posting to [email protected] and see if you get any help there.
>
> > Laurence Lundblade
> > [email protected] 703-552-2537
> > Virginia Tech -- Blacksburg, Virginia
>
>
> > On Fri, 29 Oct 1993, Alex Brown wrote:
>
> > > Date: Fri, 29 Oct 93 16:28:32 -0400
> > > From: Alex Brown <[email protected]>
> > > To: [email protected], [email protected]
> > > Cc: [email protected]
> > > Subject: PINE built for XENIX?
> > >
> > > Has there been any word of a XENIX port of PINE/PICO?
> > > I'd appreciate any contact information if so.
> > >
> > > Thanks --
> > >
> > > Alexander S. Brown [email protected]
> > > IEEE Society for Social Implications of Technology
> > > PO Box 341, Hopkinton MA 01748 (508) 435-4765
> > >
>
>
>

From [email protected] Thu Feb 17 18:15:24 1994
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Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 19:55:11 -0600 (CST)
From: Richard Lee <[email protected]>
Subject: Export messages
To: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9402171502.A4067-0100000@comp>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Length: 940

A friendly suggestion for the wonderful pine development team.
When exporting a message to a file pine (nicely) checks to see if
the file exists. If it does, the user is given the option of appending
the new message to the end of the exiting file. If you say "n"o, the
export will be canceled. (I assume ^C will have the identical effect.)
There is no way, so far as I know, of *choosing* to overwrite the old
message with the new one. (Of course one could shell out, rm the old
file, and then return to the export, but that's several steps.) So
consider adding: "File exists, (o) overwrite, (a) append, or (c) cancel?"
If you don't like this ("hey, the other messages give yes/no
options instead of a list"), no big deal.

--

Dr. Richard Lee [email protected]
Department of Philosophy Old Main 318 [email protected]
University of Arkansas phone: 501-575-5826
Fayetteville, AR 72701

From [email protected] Thu Feb 17 18:38:54 1994
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Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 18:22:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Adam Garrett <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Export messages
To: Richard Lee <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9402171502.A4067-0100000@comp>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I like this idea too. I like to save files to 'temp', for example, all the
time and would rather overwrite it, then append it.

-Adam

Adam R. Garrett
University of Washington Libraries INTERNET: [email protected]
352 Suzzallo Library, FM-25 PHONE: (206) 543-8843
Seattle, WA 98195 FAX: (206) 685-8049

On Thu, 17 Feb 1994, Richard Lee wrote:

> A friendly suggestion for the wonderful pine development team.
> When exporting a message to a file pine (nicely) checks to see if
> the file exists. If it does, the user is given the option of appending
> the new message to the end of the exiting file. If you say "n"o, the
> export will be canceled. (I assume ^C will have the identical effect.)
> There is no way, so far as I know, of *choosing* to overwrite the old
> message with the new one. (Of course one could shell out, rm the old
> file, and then return to the export, but that's several steps.) So
> consider adding: "File exists, (o) overwrite, (a) append, or (c) cancel?"
> If you don't like this ("hey, the other messages give yes/no
> options instead of a list"), no big deal.
>
> --
>
> Dr. Richard Lee [email protected]
> Department of Philosophy Old Main 318 [email protected]
> University of Arkansas phone: 501-575-5826
> Fayetteville, AR 72701

From [email protected] Thu Feb 17 22:03:00 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 00:41:16 -0500 (EST)
From: Ying-Yuang Chen <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Mime decoder
To: John Ladwig <[email protected]>
Cc: Jason Cross <[email protected]>, [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9402180053.A9534-0100000@wave>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

How could I make pine and metamail work together ?

Ying-Yuang Chen
Computer Services, UNIX System Admin.
US Department of Commerce NOAA / AOML
4301 Rickenbacker Causeway, Miami, FL 33199

From [email protected] Fri Feb 18 03:06:48 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 10:24:20 +0000 (GMT)
From: Ian Dunkin <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Export messages
To: Richard Lee <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9402171502.A4067-0100000@comp>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9402181000.A10843-0100000@uk0x04>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Thu, 17 Feb 1994, Richard Lee wrote:

> When exporting a message to a file pine (nicely) checks to see if
> the file exists. If it does, the user is given the option of appending
> the new message to the end of the exiting file. If you say "n"o, the
> export will be canceled. (I assume ^C will have the identical effect.)
> There is no way, so far as I know, of *choosing* to overwrite the old
> message with the new one. (Of course one could shell out, rm the old
> file, and then return to the export, but that's several steps.) So
> consider adding: "File exists, (o) overwrite, (a) append, or (c) cancel?"

Yes! That would be very popular here too.

I.

--
Ian Dunkin <[email protected]>
--

From [email protected] Fri Feb 18 08:37:31 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 10:58:41 -0500 (EST)
From: ILAN GRAIFER <[email protected]>
Reply-To: ILAN GRAIFER <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Reading News Question
To: Martin Beenham <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.07.9402181029.C3044-c100000@green>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

On Thu, 17 Feb 1994, Martin Beenham wrote:

> There is a high degree of common functionality and purpose between news
> and mail. I for one strongly prefer them to be combined. As a busy
> administrator of many systems two into one goes down a treat in reducing
> the number of packages to maintain. Also, I don't wish to hop about
> between packages when replying to news articles via mail, forwarding etc.

Although having a combined mail client and a newsreader might reduce the
initial installation time of the packages, it will defiantly increase the
complexity of the whole package, making it harder to use.

If you take a look, at any of the newsreaders that are available for UNIX,
you will see that there are many different options, and incorporating them
into pine will create a package that will be extremely hard to use for
novice users.
I think the best part about pine is it's ease of use, and simplicity, thus
adding so many features will increase the number of options and reduce the
usefulness of the whole package.

>
> I use and prefer a common news and mail utility on my PC at home. I think
> you are underestimating the PINE team in implying that they wouldn't make
> as good a job of it as existing news offerings on the net. I'm sure
> they'd do even better! In any case, if you don't want to use PINE's
> in-built news facilities you don't have to. There seems little reason not
> to continue the logical path on which PINE has embarked.

I had no intention to imply that the PINE team can't create a newsreader
that will be as good or even better than other newsreaders that are
available, but I just don't feel it is necessary to reinvent the wheel all
over again.

On a UNIX platform there are many good newsreaders, including readers for
the X window system, such as rn, trn, xrn and several others.

If the system in question is DOS based, then I am not sure if there exist
any good newsreaders. In this case a combined news/mail client can be
a good idea, but I feel that the news should be implemented only in PC-PINE,
and preferably as a second package that will interact closely with pine.

Ilan

--
_==| Ilan Graifer
_==| )__) |
)_) )___) )) [email protected]
)___) )____))_) [email protected]
_ )____)_____))__)\ [email protected]
\---__|____/|___|___-\\---
^^^^^^^^^\ oo oo oo oo /~~^^^^^^^
~^^^^ ~~~~^^~~~~^^~~^^~~~~~
~~^^ ~^^~ ~^~ ~^ ~^
~^~~ ~~~^^~

From [email protected] Fri Feb 18 09:03:23 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 11:37:01 -0500
To: [email protected]
From: [email protected] (Jamey Maze)
Subject: how to influence Pine about MIME type/subtypes??? (please!)

I'm wanting to use Pine to send binary files around, specifically
WordPerfect 5.1, and Microsoft Word. There are IANA defined MIME
type/subtype's defined for these document types
(application/wordperfect5.1, application/msword). When I upload a
WordPerfect 5.1 file from my PC to my workstation and attach it to a
message with Pine, Pine sends it as test/plain. I need some way to tell
Pine that this file is to be sent as application/wordperfect5.1 with base64
encoding. I'd think you'd do that with some type of mapping from the file
extension (e.g., *.w51 maps to application/wordperfect5.1 with base64
encoding). Does Pine support such mappings or is there an alternate way to
accomplish the same objective?

I would really appreciate your help with this question.

Thanks!

--
Jamey Maze 615/574-6355
Martin Marietta Energy Systems, Inc. FAX:576-4992
Oak Ridge National Laboratory

"Personally, I'm always ready to learn, although I do not always like being
taught." -- Winston Churchill

From [email protected] Fri Feb 18 09:53:59 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 09:36:45 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Mime decoder
To: Ying-Yuang Chen <[email protected]>
Cc: John Ladwig <[email protected]>, Jason Cross <[email protected]>,
[email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9402180053.A9534-0100000@wave>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
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The next version of Pine will incorporate much of metamail, though
perhaps not all. Specifically, the same mailcap database will be usable
by pine and metamail. There will also be a Pipe command that will allow
calling metamail directly.

Thanks for the request!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Fri, 18 Feb 1994, Ying-Yuang Chen wrote:

>
> How could I make pine and metamail work together ?
>
> Ying-Yuang Chen
> Computer Services, UNIX System Admin.
> US Department of Commerce NOAA / AOML
> 4301 Rickenbacker Causeway, Miami, FL 33199
>

From [email protected] Fri Feb 18 10:22:01 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 09:55:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: how to influence Pine about MIME type/subtypes??? (please!)
To: Jamey Maze <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Jamey,
We have been struggling with the best way to handle typing of potentially
ambiguous data. In some cases, the file extension is the only thing
available to distinguish the data --but should it be trusted to be correct?

I'm actually surprised that the WP doc ended up as text/plain, rather than
application/octet-stream, but either way we agree that having the official
type recognized is highly desirable. The existing mechanisms should be
sufficient to get the document to the recipient without corruption (note
that Pine uses B64-encoding even text attachments, to assure their
integrity), but automated processing by the recipient does require proper
typing.

-teg

On Fri, 18 Feb 1994, Jamey Maze wrote:

> I'm wanting to use Pine to send binary files around, specifically
> WordPerfect 5.1, and Microsoft Word. There are IANA defined MIME
> type/subtype's defined for these document types
> (application/wordperfect5.1, application/msword). When I upload a
> WordPerfect 5.1 file from my PC to my workstation and attach it to a
> message with Pine, Pine sends it as test/plain. I need some way to tell
> Pine that this file is to be sent as application/wordperfect5.1 with base64
> encoding. I'd think you'd do that with some type of mapping from the file
> extension (e.g., *.w51 maps to application/wordperfect5.1 with base64
> encoding). Does Pine support such mappings or is there an alternate way to
> accomplish the same objective?
>
> I would really appreciate your help with this question.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> --
> Jamey Maze 615/574-6355
> Martin Marietta Energy Systems, Inc. FAX:576-4992
> Oak Ridge National Laboratory
>
> "Personally, I'm always ready to learn, although I do not always like being
> taught." -- Winston Churchill
>
>
>

From [email protected] Fri Feb 18 10:27:26 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 10:05:49 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Reading News Question
To: ILAN GRAIFER <[email protected]>
Cc: Martin Beenham <[email protected]>, [email protected]
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On Fri, 18 Feb 1994, ILAN GRAIFER wrote:

> On Thu, 17 Feb 1994, Martin Beenham wrote:
>
> > There is a high degree of common functionality and purpose between news
> > and mail. I for one strongly prefer them to be combined. As a busy
> > administrator of many systems two into one goes down a treat in reducing
> > the number of packages to maintain. Also, I don't wish to hop about
> > between packages when replying to news articles via mail, forwarding etc.
>
> Although having a combined mail client and a newsreader might reduce the
> initial installation time of the packages, it will defiantly increase the
> complexity of the whole package, making it harder to use.
>
> If you take a look, at any of the newsreaders that are available for UNIX,
> you will see that there are many different options, and incorporating them
> into pine will create a package that will be extremely hard to use for
> novice users.
> I think the best part about pine is it's ease of use, and simplicity, thus
> adding so many features will increase the number of options and reduce the
> usefulness of the whole package.
>

I think you will be pleasantly surprised by the Pine news support. For
the novice user, the transition from a mail folder to a newsgroup will be
barely noticable. One of the biggest reasons for putting news support into
pine is to give the novice user something that is not as daunting as the
conventional Unix newsreader. Pine will probably never be as
sophisticated as the big news packages, but they do not meet the usability
needs of our primary target audience!

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

From [email protected] Fri Feb 18 10:27:32 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 13:09:42 -0500 (EST)
From: Jason Cross <[email protected]>
Subject: pc-pine
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <Pine.3.88.9402181335.B3869-0100000@majorca>
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Is there much difference (in terms of look and functionality)
between the pc and unix versions? Is the pc version just
as easy to compile and install as unix? Any feedback (subjective
or objective) is welcome. Thanks a bunch.

ciao,
Jason Cross <[email protected]>
EDS
Troy, Mi.

From [email protected] Fri Feb 18 10:58:54 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 10:37:02 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine is greedy
To: Matt Simmons <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Mailing List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Matt,

I'm afraid it is a general Unixism when you reconfigure the terminal
driver. Pine does not do anything explicitly to suck up keystrokes.

Thanks for the report!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Wed, 2 Feb 1994, Matt Simmons wrote:

> When you exit pine, it seems to suck up all of the keystrokes from the
> time you hit expunge-yes until the prompt returns... Is there any way for
> pine to not suck up these keystrokes, so I can start typing the next
> command while it is exitting? I've noticed this problem with other
> (SunOS 4.1.something) programs... Is it a general UNIXism?
>
> Devoted _n______________________________________________ _________________
> Teri / \|[]|"" \ |[]| |[]| |[]| |[]| / || \ |[]| |[]|
> Polo ,(_____| |()_()\___| |___| |___| |___| |___/ || \___| |___| |
> Fan <_______|__|_(_)_____|__|___|__|___|__|___|__|______||______|__|___|__|
> =========\ Walt Disney World Monorail System ||
> LCA _____\________________________________________________||_________________
> __/ This highway's in perfect shape. Quick! Thank god I'm not a
> _/ Break it so we can 'fix' it! -- IDOT Motto F. I. P. =)
>
>

From [email protected] Fri Feb 18 10:59:56 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 10:41:41 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine locking (fwd)
To: Ian Dunkin <[email protected]>
Cc: The Pine list <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9401281556.A2824-0100000@uk0x04>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Ian,

Sorry about the slow reply to this. Unfortunately this apparently simple
operation gets quite complicated behind the scenes. If you have users
who do this kind of thing routinely, you might consider converting to one
of the alternate INBOX formats (e.g. Tenex) that allows shared concurrent
access.

Thanks for the request!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Fri, 28 Jan 1994, Ian Dunkin wrote:

>
> Had the following query from a user here. I'm sure I've seen discussion
> of this on the list, but it doesn't seem to have been implemented. Would
> it be a good thing to add? In summary:
>
> User runs Pine, leaves the session going
>
> User goes away and logs in from somwhere else; Pine correctly takes
> the lock from the first session
>
> User comes back to the first session. Would like a way to grab
> _back_ the lock.
>
> Thanks,
>
> I.
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>
> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 15:42:02 +0000 (GMT)
> From: [...] one-of-our-users
> Subject: Pine locking
>
> When I dial-in to my workstaion & look at mail with Pine it is very good
> at grabbing the file locking, but when I get back to the console I have
> to quit Pine, then run it again to leave the read-only mode. Is there a
> way of getting the file lock back in Pine?
>
> R.

From [email protected] Fri Feb 18 11:49:10 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 19:09:49 +0000 (GMT)
From: The PenMaster <[email protected]>
Subject: Next Pine version- When?
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9402181920.A15639-0100000@teaching6>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Greetings,
Just a quick question; Any rough estimate on when the next
version of Pine will be ready, and any chance of a quick re-cap on what
new features it will have?

Thanks,

David

_ _
==========////====================================================
/ //// David Edwards: Welcome to the real world... \
|| _ _ //// send mail to: ||
|| \\\\ //// edwards%[email protected] ||
\ \\\X/// or [email protected] /
====\XXX/=========================================================

From [email protected] Fri Feb 18 11:54:57 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 14:28:52 -0500 (EST)
From: Sherry Lake <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Sherry Lake <[email protected]>
Subject: Bug Found in Pine....
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

I had a user report that while he was in the addressbook he deleted an
entry (the one and only) and then when he tried to create another, he got
a pine "bug" message.

I tried to reproduce the problem and finally did (it is very
intermittent). After lots of deletes and adds in the addressbook, I got
the following error message (this is screen capture output):

Any thoughts?????

Thanks.

------------------------------------

[Entry deleted, address book updated]
? Help M MainMenu P PrevField - PrevPage D Delete S CreateList
O OTHER CMDS E [Edit] N NextField Spc NextPage A Add Z AddToList

Bug in Pine detected: "Received abort signal".
Exiting pine.
-----------------------------

----
Sherry H. Lake [email protected]
Electronic Mail Consultant
George Mason University

From [email protected] Fri Feb 18 12:01:16 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 11:38:37 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: pine v3.89 hanging when sending mail (solaris version -- home directory on ultrix box)
To: "Paul G. Leo Jr." <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Paul,

This sounds like it may be a problem with NFS file locking when trying to
write the sent-mail copy of the message. The best way to avoid this
problem is to install imapd on the ultrix box and configure Pine to
use imap instead of NFS.

Thanks for the report!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Mon, 7 Feb 1994, Paul G. Leo Jr. wrote:

>
> I've just noticed this behavior of pine v3.89 ( & v3.88 ). User on a
> solaris box, with his/her home directory on an ultrix 4.2a box, fires up
> pine, composes a message, and sends the message. The message is sent
> (and correctly received to another individual), but -- pine hangs with
> the "Sending mail" message. I am unable to break out of pine -- I
> basically have to kill the process.
>
> If a solaris user with home directory on solaris box, or ultrix user with
> home directory on ultrix box fires up pine, pine works as I would expect,
> great...
>
>
> Paul Leo e-mail [email protected]
> University of Utah Medical School [email protected]
> Eccles Institute of Human Genetics
> Building 533 Room 2100 phone 801-585-3653
> Salt Lake City, Utah 84106 fax 801-585-3910

From [email protected] Fri Feb 18 12:03:28 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 11:46:12 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine, IMAP with VMS and MVS?
To: "Daniel P. Joy" <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

Daniel,

There is a commercial implementation of IMAP for VMS available from
Innosoft. They are rumored to be working on a Pine implementation for
VMS. I do not know of any IMAP implementations for MVS. Here is the
contact info for Innosoft:=20

Innosoft International Inc. (PMDF mail software for VMS)
250 W. First Street, #240,=20
Claremont CA 91711
(909) 624-7907, FAX (909) 621-5319
[email protected] (for literature and general info)
[email protected] (for technical questions)

Thanks for the request!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Wed, 16 Feb 1994, Daniel P. Joy wrote:

>=20
> Sorry if this question has been asked before - I'm new to this mailing
> list.
>=20
> I'm working on setting up a mail system for our computer center. We
> have Unix, Macs, and VAX's. Unix and Macs are not a problem - but
> can a VAX=A0act as a IMAP client and use Pine or even VMS Mail? It=20
> would be nice to just use Pine. Sometime in the future this mail
> system might include an IBM mainframe running MVS/ESA. Is it possible
> to run IMAP on the IBM? (please don't laugh :)
>=20
> Thank you,
>=20
> Daniel=A0Joy
> Systems Manager
> Howard Hughes Medical Institute, UT Southwestern Medical School
> [email protected]=09(214)648-5034
>=20

From [email protected] Fri Feb 18 12:45:02 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 15:24:05 -0500 (EST)
From: Omi Chandiramani <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Export messages
To: Ian Dunkin <[email protected]>
Cc: Richard Lee <[email protected]>, [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9402181000.A10843-0100000@uk0x04>
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On Fri, 18 Feb 1994, Ian Dunkin wrote:

[..]
> > When exporting a message to a file pine (nicely) checks to see if
> > the file exists. If it does, the user is given the option of appending
> > the new message to the end of the exiting file. If you say "n"o, the
> > export will be canceled. (I assume ^C will have the identical effect.)
> > There is no way, so far as I know, of *choosing* to overwrite the old
> > message with the new one. (Of course one could shell out, rm the old
> > file, and then return to the export, but that's several steps.) So
> > consider adding: "File exists, (o) overwrite, (a) append, or (c) cancel?"

I dont know how the average user feels about this but if we just wanted to
stick to the Yes/No answer format then I'd much rather have Pine ask me if
I want to overwrite the file. I use temp a lot too and I can't remember a
single time when i needed Pine to append a message to a file. Of course
there are probably LOTS of users who might disagree with me on this but
then again maybe not!?

Omi Chandiramani

From [email protected] Fri Feb 18 12:59:53 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 12:41:48 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Bug Found in Pine....
To: Sherry Lake <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Sherry,

Could you send us a compressed core file as an attachment? If you run
pine with the "-d9" option, duplicate the problem, and send us the
pine-debug2 file, that would also be helpful.

Thanks for the report!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Fri, 18 Feb 1994, Sherry Lake wrote:

> I had a user report that while he was in the addressbook he deleted an
> entry (the one and only) and then when he tried to create another, he got
> a pine "bug" message.
>
> I tried to reproduce the problem and finally did (it is very
> intermittent). After lots of deletes and adds in the addressbook, I got
> the following error message (this is screen capture output):
>
> Any thoughts?????
>
> Thanks.
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> [Entry deleted, address book updated]
> ? Help M MainMenu P PrevField - PrevPage D Delete S CreateList
> O OTHER CMDS E [Edit] N NextField Spc NextPage A Add Z AddToList
>
>
> Bug in Pine detected: "Received abort signal".
> Exiting pine.
> -----------------------------
>
> ----
> Sherry H. Lake [email protected]
> Electronic Mail Consultant
> George Mason University
>
>

From [email protected] Fri Feb 18 13:08:02 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 12:46:19 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Next Pine version- When?
To: The PenMaster <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9402181920.A15639-0100000@teaching6>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

David,

We do not have any sort of firm date, but we are shooting for a late
spring release. The features we have running internally include pipe,
bounce, news posting/subscription, aggregate operations, and mailcap
support. I am not sure what other features will make it into the
distribution yet.

Thanks for the request!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Fri, 18 Feb 1994, The PenMaster wrote:

> Greetings,
> Just a quick question; Any rough estimate on when the next
> version of Pine will be ready, and any chance of a quick re-cap on what
> new features it will have?
>
> Thanks,
>
> David
>
>
> _ _
> ==========////====================================================
> / //// David Edwards: Welcome to the real world... \
> || _ _ //// send mail to: ||
> || \\\\ //// edwards%[email protected] ||
> \ \\\X/// or [email protected] /
> ====\XXX/=========================================================
>

From [email protected] Fri Feb 18 13:22:35 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 12:59:34 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: pc-pine
To: Jason Cross <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.88.9402181335.B3869-0100000@majorca>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Jason,

We have made the PC and Unix versions of pine as close to the same as we
can. I'm not sure about the ease of compilation, but we distribute
pre-compiled versions of PC-Pine for all of the currently supported
TCP/IP stacks.

Thanks for the interest!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Fri, 18 Feb 1994, Jason Cross wrote:

> Is there much difference (in terms of look and functionality)
> between the pc and unix versions? Is the pc version just
> as easy to compile and install as unix? Any feedback (subjective
> or objective) is welcome. Thanks a bunch.
>
> ciao,
> Jason Cross <[email protected]>
> EDS
> Troy, Mi.
>

From [email protected] Fri Feb 18 13:55:35 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 16:33:41 -0500 (EST)
From: Steven Sietz <[email protected]>
Subject: Contributed Pine icons
To: Pine <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9402181657.A8171-0100000@maui>
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How can I invoke pine to open an X-window and refer to the icons in the
contrib directory? "xterm -e pine" gets me the window but without the fancy
icon.

-Steven Sietz-

[email protected]
Martin Marietta Corporation (formerly GE Aerospace - GESD)
Government Electronic Systems
Moorestown, NJ

From [email protected] Fri Feb 18 14:03:36 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Feb 94 16:40:59 -0500
From: James Dryfoos <[email protected]>
Subject: Request for directory look in passwd file?
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Would/is it be possible to have pine capable of looking up users to send
mail to in the passwd file? I.e. When in compose, I would like to be
able to bring up a list of all users on the local system with their full
names and be able to select one as the destination. It should work in
similar manner to the personal directory lookup. It is better however,
because you would not have to update your own list and you will always
get an up to date list. Perhaps you can have a selection to pick from
personal directory or global directory (on unix it would use passwd).

-- Jim

==========================================================================
James D. Dryfoos | [email protected]
MIT Lincoln Labs, Group 28 |
244 Wood Street, MailStop: C159 | (617) 981-2008 - office
Lexington, MA 02173, Earth | (617) 981-0782 - fax
==========================================================================

From [email protected] Fri Feb 18 14:07:18 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 16:50:37 -0500 (EST)
From: Ken Weaverling <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Request for directory look in passwd file?
To: James Dryfoos <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

The idea of being able to pick local users out of the passwd file is
excellent, but for a lot of educational sites that use NIS (commercial
sites would be nuts to use NIS for security reasons, but that is another
story).

Anyway, yeah. Great idea. Just support NIS if it is done!

On Fri, 18 Feb 1994, James Dryfoos wrote:

> Would/is it be possible to have pine capable of looking up users to send
> mail to in the passwd file? I.e. When in compose, I would like to be
> able to bring up a list of all users on the local system with their full
> names and be able to select one as the destination. It should work in
> similar manner to the personal directory lookup. It is better however,
> because you would not have to update your own list and you will always
> get an up to date list. Perhaps you can have a selection to pick from
> personal directory or global directory (on unix it would use passwd).
>
> -- Jim
>
> ==========================================================================
> James D. Dryfoos | [email protected]
> MIT Lincoln Labs, Group 28 |
> 244 Wood Street, MailStop: C159 | (617) 981-2008 - office
> Lexington, MA 02173, Earth | (617) 981-0782 - fax
> ==========================================================================
>

Ken Weaverling [email protected] |*|
Manager of Computer Services |*| Wilmington: +1 302 573-5460
Stanton/Wilmington Campuses of |*| Stanton: +1 302 454-3978
Delaware Technical & Community College |*|

From [email protected] Fri Feb 18 15:17:41 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 14:59:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Elmar Kurgpold <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: PC Pico enhancement
To: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Cc: John Stumbles <[email protected]>,
Pine User Group <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9402181408.X17356-0100000@hal>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Maybe so, but y'all managed to stick in ^Space, to skip *ahead* a word at
a time. I've asked about this before-- are there plans to add a "skip a
word backwords" keystroke? Just for us impatient editors... :-) Pardon
my key-mapping ignorance, but would the keys control-< and control-> be
possible to use? (Oh no, another keystroke change request!!!)

------------------------------------- ,-,,-, __
| Elmar Kurgpold | ______/ /_,' |
| Network Administrator | \________________/
| University of Southern California | |<) (> |
| The Law Center | ( | oo |
| [email protected] | ) `| |--'
| (213)740-2571 FAX: (213)740-5502 | (___^^^^|
------------------------------------- (____'

On Thu, 17 Feb 1994, David L Miller wrote:

>
> John,
>
> Unfortunately the meanings of those keys are not clearly defined on
> non-PC keyboards. Many keyboards just send a NULL for both of them...
>
> --DLM
>
> |\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
> |/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
> University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
> 4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA
>
> On Mon, 31 Jan 1994, John Stumbles wrote:
>
> > I keep finding myself using Control with the left- and right-arrow keys to
> > try to get around: this is pretty standard key-binding in PC editors -
> > could it be implemented in PICO?
> >
> > John Stumbles [email protected]
> > Reading University 0734 318435
> > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> >
>

From [email protected] Fri Feb 18 15:22:39 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Feb 94 17:04:34 CST
From: "John Ladwig" <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
To: Ken Weaverling <[email protected]>
Cc: James Dryfoos <[email protected]>, [email protected]
Subject: Re: Request for directory look in passwd file?
In-Reply-To: Ken Weaverling's message <[email protected]> of 18 February 1994
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>

>>>>> On Fri, 18 Feb 1994 16:50:37 -0500 (EST), Ken Weaverling <[email protected]> said:

Ken> The idea of being able to pick local users out of the passwd
Ken> file is excellent, but for a lot of educational sites that
Ken> use NIS (commercial sites would be nuts to use NIS for
Ken> security reasons, but that is another story).

Ken> Anyway, yeah. Great idea. Just support NIS if it is done!

Ken> On Fri, 18 Feb 1994, James Dryfoos wrote:

>> Would/is it be possible to have pine capable of looking up
>> users to send mail to in the passwd file? I.e. When in
>> compose, I would like to be able to bring up a list of all
>> users on the local system with their full names and be able to
>> select one as the destination.

It should *really* be optional, as I can't imagine how it would be
useful for our University-wide systems, each of which has better than
60,000 local users.

Really.

I can just see users paging through 60,000/25 screens full of information.

-jml

From [email protected] Fri Feb 18 15:32:41 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 15:13:20 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Q: Can I print to LPT3 with PC-Pine 3.89
To: Darryl Friesen <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Mailing List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <PCPine_p.3.89.9401111329.B6298-0100000@[128.233.2.37]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Darryl,

Sorry about the slow response, we have been swamped! PC-Pine will print
to whatever the default printer is, so if you set up DOS so that one of
the others is default, it should work.

Thanks for the request!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Tue, 11 Jan 1994, Darryl Friesen wrote:

>
> Is is possible to use LPT2 or LPT3 with PC-Pine 3.89? The reason I
> ask is that we have a number of network print queues available on each
> machine, and LPT1 is not always a text queue (ie. on some machines
> LPT1 is connected to a postscript only, or a local postacript printer).
>
> Thanx
>
> - Darryl
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> Darryl Friesen | Client Services
> [email protected] | Department of Computing Services
> [email protected] | University of Saskatchewan
> --------------------------------------------------------------
>

From [email protected] Fri Feb 18 15:36:46 1994
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Subject: Re: Request for directory look in passwd file?
From: Billy Barron <[email protected]>
To: [email protected] (Ken Weaverling)
Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 17:11:31 -0600
Cc: [email protected], [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]> from "Ken Weaverling" at Feb 18, 94 03:50:37 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
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In reply to Ken Weaverling's message:
>
>The idea of being able to pick local users out of the passwd file is
>excellent, but for a lot of educational sites that use NIS (commercial
>sites would be nuts to use NIS for security reasons, but that is another
>story).
>
>Anyway, yeah. Great idea. Just support NIS if it is done!
>
I was thinking about this the other day. I think PINE just needs
to make a programming interface. Then each of us can write the
directory service to meet our own needs. People with ones of
general interest like this passwd/NIS can submit it to the PINE
team.

I understand how this passwd idea would be good in some environments,
but in mine it is horrible as depending what machine someone was logged
into they would see different people in the addressbook....

--
Billy Barron, Network Services Manager, Univ of Texas at Dallas
[email protected]

From [email protected] Fri Feb 18 16:08:46 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 15:51:27 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Request for directory look in passwd file?
To: Billy Barron <[email protected]>
Cc: Ken Weaverling <[email protected]>, [email protected],
[email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Pine will be adding support for the IMSP protocol in the not-to-distant
future. A significant part of this protocol is devoted to an addressbook
service. The proposed c-client extensions for IMSP support include just
the kind of API you are asking for. Here is the latest draft announcement:

>Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 16:22:34 -0500 (EST)
>From: Chris Newman <[email protected]>
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: IMSP API extensions to c-client
>
>I have an alpha release of the IMSP API extensions to c-client available on
> export.acs.cmu.edu:/pub/cyrus-mail/imsp-api-v1.00a1.tar.gz
>
>This includes the API descriptions, and support for address books and
>options.
>
>Please see the included README file for more details.
>
>I'd very much appreciate comments/bug-fixes/etc.
>
> Thanks,
> - Chris Newman

Anyone interested in discussing this API should subscribe to the
[email protected] mailing list. The admin address for the list
is [email protected].

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Fri, 18 Feb 1994, Billy Barron wrote:

> In reply to Ken Weaverling's message:
> >
> >The idea of being able to pick local users out of the passwd file is
> >excellent, but for a lot of educational sites that use NIS (commercial
> >sites would be nuts to use NIS for security reasons, but that is another
> >story).
> >
> >Anyway, yeah. Great idea. Just support NIS if it is done!
> >
> I was thinking about this the other day. I think PINE just needs
> to make a programming interface. Then each of us can write the
> directory service to meet our own needs. People with ones of
> general interest like this passwd/NIS can submit it to the PINE
> team.
>
> I understand how this passwd idea would be good in some environments,
> but in mine it is horrible as depending what machine someone was logged
> into they would see different people in the addressbook....
>
> --
> Billy Barron, Network Services Manager, Univ of Texas at Dallas
> [email protected]

From [email protected] Fri Feb 18 16:11:41 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 15:57:01 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Quit pine -> "You have new mail." ???
To: Mike Ramey <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine-Info Email List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Mike,

Sorry about the delayed response! Thanks for the suggestion!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Thu, 20 Jan 1994, Mike Ramey wrote:

> Often, when I quit pine, I immediately get the message:
> You have new mail.
> before the unix prompt.
>
> I suspect this is because pine only checks for new mail every xx seconds,
> and it has not yet seen the new mail; so unix (cshell?) tells me about it
> before presenting the unix prompt.
>
> Suggestion: As part of the pine 'quit' processing, check for new mail
> and allow the user to read it before completing the pine 'quit' command.
> There is always the possibility of missing a new message that arrives
> just 'after' pine quits, but the window of lost messages will be smaller
> than it is now. -mr

From [email protected] Fri Feb 18 16:32:39 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 16:14:08 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: QUOTED-PRINTABLE and line breaks.
To: Kari Sutela <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Kari,

Sorry about the abysmally late response to this! Pine does indeed use
standard CRLF line breaks. I have heard of mail delivery software that
incorrectly converts the CRLF pairs to something else, but that should
affect all incoming MIME mail. Let us know if you need further assistance
tracking down the problem.

Thanks for the report!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Tue, 21 Dec 1993, Kari Sutela wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> Our VMS-administrator complains that the MIME-compatible
> VMS-EMAIL-program won't properly display pine-generated messages. He
> says, that if the content-transfer-encoding says quoted-printable, then
> all linebreaks should be represented by the CRLF pair. I took a quick
> peek at the MIME rfc and I'm beginning to think that he's right.
>
> Now it seems that pine does not change line breaks into CRLF pairs. Does
> pine behave according to MIME spec in this respect? Have we
> misunderstood the MIME rfc? Are there any fixes?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> /KS
>

From [email protected] Fri Feb 18 16:58:30 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 16:48:24 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Skipping quoted text.
To: Mike Ramey <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine-Info Email List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Not really. The next version of Pine will have a "Search for End"
command, but that is about it so far.

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Thu, 20 Jan 1994, Mike Ramey wrote:

> I just discovered the <tab> key skips to the next new message
> -- even in reading mode. I tried it in hopes of skipping over
> a large amount of >quoted text. Is there any way to do this?
> -mr

From [email protected] Fri Feb 18 17:01:47 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 16:51:29 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: smtp-server=
To: Philip Hazel <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Philip,

Sorry about the slow response! Thanks for the suggestions. We will be
looking into way of getting what you are looking for.

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Wed, 12 Jan 1994, Philip Hazel wrote:

> A suggestion to the Pine Team:
>
> We've just uncovered an uncomfortable trap. A user who had been using
> PC-Pine logged onto our Unix system and wanted to use Pine there. He
> naturally copied his pinerc file from the PC to the Unix system. The
> problem was, it contained
>
> smtp-server=<something>
>
> which caused behaviour that we don't want; we want all mail sent on the
> Unix system to go through sendmail (= smail, actually). Would it be
> possible to have an option in the system pinerc that said "don't take any
> notice of smtp-server settings in users' pinerc files"?
>
> In fact, we'd appreciate a more general facility whereby we could give a
> list of options that users were not allowed to change. (Have I suggested
> this before?) As well as a general Unix system, we also have a "mail-only"
> system, and currently have to hack Pine on that system to prevent users
> escaping via the alternate editor and printer configuration options.
>
> Regards,
> Philip
>
> --
> Philip Hazel University Computing Service,
> [email protected] New Museums Site, Cambridge CB2 3QG,
> [email protected] England. Phone: +44 223 334714
>

From [email protected] Fri Feb 18 17:30:01 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 17:19:40 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Suggestions
To: "Gregory J. Atchity" <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Gregory,

Sorry about the slow response! We've got your first suggestion on our
list of enhancements to consider. Your second suggestion os not really
doable though. You can most certainly have spaces in the fullname part
of the address. Even your address has spaces in it...

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Thu, 27 Jan 1994, Gregory J. Atchity wrote:

> I just joined this group a week ago, and I see a lot of suggestions,
> so I guess they are welcomed by the designers. I'll put my two cents
> in, let me know if you want any more of my money.
>
> First, I'd rather see the number of lines in a message in the index
> instead of the number of characters it has. I don't receive that much
> mime, and so lines is a bit more useful to me. Perhaps that should be an
> option.
>
> Second, why does the 'To:' line require commas between members of a
> list? I don't know much about mail programs, but I thought all addresses
> had to be one word, and so I'd like to see Pine parse each word regardless
> of whether it has a comma after it or not, and insert the commas for me if
> I forget. This sounds do-able to me, even if aliases can be multi-word.
>
> Thanks for listening.
> ---
> Greg Atchity ([email protected] and [email protected])
> Iowa State University and Ames Laboratory - USDOE
>
>

From [email protected] Sat Feb 19 00:59:07 1994
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Date: Sat, 19 Feb 1994 00:40:24 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: uNread flag on Saved messages
To: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine User Group <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <PCPine_p.3.89.9401241816.B9791-0100000@[134.225.33.95]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
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John,

This is a feature/bug of the current version of Pine that will be
corrected in an upcoming version. Thanks for the report!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Mon, 24 Jan 1994, John Stumbles wrote:

> I've just been tidying up my mailboxes, saving a lot of the mail which I
> have read in other mailboxes, and then changing into another mailbox
> shows the messages as unread! Is this a bug or a feature?
>
> (Using PC Pine 3.89 with IMAP to access mailboxes)
>
> John Stumbles [email protected]
> Reading University 0734 318435
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>

From [email protected] Sat Feb 19 00:59:44 1994
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Date: Sat, 19 Feb 1994 00:45:25 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Use ispell with -pico- ?
To: Mike Ramey <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine-Info Email List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

What a novel idea... An "alternate editor" function in an editor ;)

Seriously, when we re-work the spell checker in Pine, I would presume
that the Pico spell checker will also get updated. I suspect that this
is quite far down the "master to-do list" though...

Thanks for the suggestion, Mike!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Mon, 24 Jan 1994, Mike Ramey wrote:

> On Mon, 24 Jan 1994, Gregory J. Atchity wrote:
> > I just started using Pine last week, and am very interested in seeing your
> > instructions. I've never used Emacs, and have no interest in using Emacs,
> > but you have been able to coerce Ispell to work with the Pico editor I'd
> > LOVE to use it.
>
> Everything I've seen so far relates to using ispell with pine, not pico.
> I just tried the ^_ key in pico, and it is an 'unknown command'.
> Pine-folks: Is ^_ (alternate composer) supported in -pico-?
> Is there a .picorc file? Should there be?
> How can we get ispell (native mode!) to work in -pico-?
> -mr

From [email protected] Sat Feb 19 01:14:13 1994
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Date: Sat, 19 Feb 1994 01:02:27 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Vt100 & ANSI codes
To: The PenMaster <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9402111450.B8707-0100000@teaching6>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

David,

What you need to find is a VT100 programmer's manual. They are getting
pretty hard to find, but there is bound to be someone over there who has
a dusty copy on their bookshelf...

The next version of Pine will have a Pipe command, but it will feed back into
the same scrolltool() routine. If you have mutiple screens (physical or
virtual) you should be able to come up with a clever way to make it work
though...

Thanks for the requests!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA Amiga Makes it Possible!

On Fri, 11 Feb 1994, The PenMaster wrote:

>
> Hwi there,
> Really sorry to post a non-Pine question (sort of), but no-one on
> the Usenet seems to be willing to help me...
>
> I need some documentation on VT100 and ANSI escape codes
> including curur positioning and colours, etc, and would be very grateful
> if someone could mail me any info that they have. Thanks.
>
> Secondly; Pine and ANSI. Is there any way of getting Pine to
> display messages with something like More, for example so that messages
> including cursor postioning information could be displyed correctly (e.g.
> for ANSI animations). I know that you can save out the message, stip off
> the headers and then view it with More, but it would be nice to be able
> to do it all from within Pine...
>
> Charuuba!
>
> David Edwards
> _ _
> ==========////====================================================
> / //// David Edwards: Welcome to the real world... \
> || _ _ //// send mail to: ||
> || \\\\ //// edwards%[email protected] ||
> \ \\\X/// or [email protected] /
> ====\XXX/=========================================================
>
>

From [email protected] Sat Feb 19 06:07:33 1994
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Date: Sat, 19 Feb 1994 08:51:50 -0500 (EST)
From: Ken Weaverling <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Request for directory look in passwd file?
To: Billy Barron <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected], [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
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On Fri, 18 Feb 1994, Billy Barron wrote:

> I was thinking about this the other day. I think PINE just needs
> to make a programming interface. Then each of us can write the
> directory service to meet our own needs. People with ones of
> general interest like this passwd/NIS can submit it to the PINE
> team.

Actually, this would really be great. Just simple programming hooks
that would allow us who can program to tailor items into Pine
without having to modify actual source code in the distribution.

Also, if address book could do expansions, with same user interface
as folders, is "personal addressbook" "system addressbook" etc...

Ken Weaverling [email protected] |*|
Manager of Computer Services |*| Wilmington: +1 302 573-5460
Stanton/Wilmington Campuses of |*| Stanton: +1 302 454-3978
Delaware Technical & Community College |*|

From [email protected] Sat Feb 19 09:33:41 1994
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Date: Sat, 19 Feb 1994 19:21:10 +0200
From: Kari Sutela <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: QUOTED-PRINTABLE and line breaks.
To: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
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On Sat, 19 Feb 1994, David L Miller wrote:

> Kari,
>
> Sorry about the abysmally late response to this! Pine does indeed use
> standard CRLF line breaks. I have heard of mail delivery software that
> incorrectly converts the CRLF pairs to something else,

No problem. There actually was a bug in the PMDF mail user agent under
VMS which caused it to display quoted-printable mail incorrectly. I had a
hard time in convinving our VMS admin, but that's an entirely different
story :-) Upgrading PMDF fixed it. Thanks for the reply anyway.

/KS

From [email protected] Sat Feb 19 18:03:55 1994
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Date: Sat, 19 Feb 1994 17:53:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Henry Kuo <[email protected]>
Subject: Suggestion for pico
To: [email protected]
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Hi!

Is that possible to add line and position counter on pico? That will
be helpful for people who use pico to write program. Thanks!!

=Henry=

From [email protected] Sat Feb 19 20:44:27 1994
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Date: Sat, 19 Feb 1994 20:33:26 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Suggestion for pico
To: Henry Kuo <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
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Henry,

^C will give you that information as a command. I think it would be
pretty crowded to put it in the header...

Thanks for the suggestion!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Sat, 19 Feb 1994, Henry Kuo wrote:

>
> Hi!
>
> Is that possible to add line and position counter on pico? That will
> be helpful for people who use pico to write program. Thanks!!
>
> =Henry=

From [email protected] Sat Feb 19 21:08:30 1994
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Date: Sat, 19 Feb 1994 20:57:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Henry Kuo <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Suggestion for pico
To: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
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On Sat, 19 Feb 1994, David L Miller wrote:

> Henry,
>
> ^C will give you that information as a command. I think it would be
> pretty crowded to put it in the header...

However, it only tells you which line; it doesn't say which position.
For example, for Fortran programmers, they need to know where is 7 and 70.

=Henry=

>
> Thanks for the suggestion!
>
> --DLM
>
> |\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
> |/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
> University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
> 4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA
>
> On Sat, 19 Feb 1994, Henry Kuo wrote:
>
> >
> > Hi!
> >
> > Is that possible to add line and position counter on pico? That will
> > be helpful for people who use pico to write program. Thanks!!
> >
> > =Henry=
>

From [email protected] Sat Feb 19 22:15:30 1994
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Date: Sat, 19 Feb 1994 22:01:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Norm Aleks <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Suggestion for pico
To: [email protected]
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On Sat, 19 Feb 1994, Henry Kuo wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Feb 1994, David L Miller wrote:
> > ^C will give you that information as a command. I think it would be
> > pretty crowded to put it in the header...
> However, it only tells you which line; it doesn't say which position.
> For example, for Fortran programmers, they need to know where is 7 and 70.

I don't know about this one ... it seems irrelevant for an integrated mail
editor to show line and column. And Pico is *so* far off from being a
decent programmer's editor (that's not a problem, it just reflects Pico's
purpose) that adding line/column won't help.

Just use Emacs, Henry ...

____
\ / Norm Aleks [email protected] +1 508 797 4709
\/ UMass Med. Ctr. Box 279, 55 Lake Ave. N., Worcester, MA 01655-0001 USA

From [email protected] Sat Feb 19 23:32:53 1994
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(5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for [email protected]); Sun, 20 Feb 1994 08:25:02 +0200
To: [email protected]
Path: farzin
From: [email protected] (Farzin Shakibanejad)
Newsgroups: bwc.list.pineinfo
Subject: Expiration Date for pine emails?
Date: 20 Feb 1994 06:24:58 GMT
Organization: Baha'i World Centre
Lines: 8
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Nntp-Posting-Host: saturn.bwc.org
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Is there a way to set expiration date on the emails
at the pine folder level? So emails within that folder
get deleted after number of given days.

I appreciate any info regarding this question,
Farzin

From [email protected] Sun Feb 20 04:52:45 1994
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id HAA07516; Sun, 20 Feb 1994 07:37:57 -0500
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 1994 07:37:56 -0500 (EST)
From: Rick Troxel <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Rick Troxel <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Expiration Date for pine emails?
To: Farzin Shakibanejad <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
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Message-Id: <[email protected]>
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I believe there is a package called mailtool that will do this.

Hoping this helps,

Rick Troxel [email protected] [email protected] 301/496-4823
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
All effort and exertion put forth by man from the fullness of his
heart is worship, if it is prompted by the highest motives and
the will to do service to humanity. --Abdu'l-Baha

On 20 Feb 1994, Farzin Shakibanejad wrote:

> Is there a way to set expiration date on the emails
> at the pine folder level? So emails within that folder
> get deleted after number of given days.

From [email protected] Sun Feb 20 13:41:06 1994
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Date: Sun, 20 Feb 1994 15:30:05 -0600 (CST)
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <[email protected]>
Subject: bounce command
To: Pine Info <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I know the bounce command isn't functional yet, but I'm kinda curious.
What exactly does/will it do?

____ Robert A. Hayden <=> [email protected]
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> In the United States, they
\/ Finger for PGP 2.3a Public Key <=> first came for us in Colorado...
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 1.0.1) GAT d- -p+(---) c++(++++) l++ u++ e+/* m++(*)@ s-/++
n-(---) h+(*) f+ g+ w++ t++ r++ y+(*)

From [email protected] Sun Feb 20 16:51:56 1994
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Date: Sun, 20 Feb 1994 16:39:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: bounce command
To: "Robert A. Hayden" <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Info <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Bounce, aka "resend" or "remail", will prompt you for one or more
addresses to resend the message to. Upon arrival, the message will retain
the *originator's* From: line, rather than appearing to be from you. So
replies by the final addressee will go back to the originator, unlike the
Forward case. There will be "Resent-From:" and "Resent-To:" headers
added to give the recipient a hint as to why they received it. You will
not have an opportunity to edit or otherwise modify the message.

The principle purpose of bounce is to re-direct mail that was
mis-addressed or more appropriately sent elsewhere. Another use is for
list moderators to easily redirect candidate messages to the actual list.

-teg

On Sun, 20 Feb 1994, Robert A. Hayden wrote:

> I know the bounce command isn't functional yet, but I'm kinda curious.
> What exactly does/will it do?
>
> ____ Robert A. Hayden <=> [email protected]
> \ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
> \/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> In the United States, they
> \/ Finger for PGP 2.3a Public Key <=> first came for us in Colorado...
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> (GEEK CODE 1.0.1) GAT d- -p+(---) c++(++++) l++ u++ e+/* m++(*)@ s-/++
> n-(---) h+(*) f+ g+ w++ t++ r++ y+(*)
>
>

From [email protected] Mon Feb 21 02:50:17 1994
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Date: Mon, 21 Feb 1994 10:05:15 +0000 (WET)
From: Martin Beenham <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Martin Beenham <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Reading News Question
To: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.07.9402181029.C3044-c100000@green>
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On Fri, 18 Feb 1994, ILAN GRAIFER wrote:
> Although having a combined mail client and a newsreader might reduce the
> initial installation time of the packages, it will defiantly increase the
> complexity of the whole package, making it harder to use.

I entirely disagree that enhancing the existing news funcionality of PINE
by implementing threading would either increase the complexity or make it
harder to use.

For those who do not wish to utilise the news functionality it need not be
enabled, as now. For those who do, the single package for dealing with
both news and mail would make usage easier not more difficult. There
would not be the requirement to learn a whole set of different commands
for a separate package (eg trn).

I would think that implementing threading which extended to mail as well
as news would be enthusiastically received by all who have actually used a
threaded mail reader (and would be a new delight to those who havn't).

> If you take a look, at any of the newsreaders that are available for UNIX,
> you will see that there are many different options, and incorporating them
> into pine will create a package that will be extremely hard to use for
> novice users.
> I think the best part about pine is it's ease of use, and simplicity, thus
> adding so many features will increase the number of options and reduce the
> usefulness of the whole package.

We are talking here about a package that already has much of the
functionality of a news utility. I use PINE to look at news from time to
time, but the absence of threading make it hard work.(Even harder for a
novice). Threading of mail would make for a much easier system for novices
to get to grips with. I use a threaded mail/news system so speak from
experience.

> I had no intention to imply that the PINE team can't create a newsreader
> that will be as good or even better than other newsreaders that are
> available, but I just don't feel it is necessary to reinvent the wheel all
> over again.

If you think about it, we're not reinventing the wheel. What we're
actually doing is enabling the PINE's existing news functionality to be
used more powerfully, especially by novice users.

> On a UNIX platform there are many good newsreaders, including readers for
> the X window system, such as rn, trn, xrn and several others.

I use and administrate all these readers from time to time and I think
that asking a novice to cope with the range of options available under eg.
trn is asking a lot.

PINE has been developed so that it's very easy for new users to pick up
and use, yet has advanced functionality that those of us who know where to
look can utilise. Asking a novice user to use trn is on a par with asking
him to use vi as his mail editor (IMHO).

> If the system in question is DOS based, then I am not sure if there exist
> any good newsreaders. In this case a combined news/mail client can be
> a good idea, but I feel that the news should be implemented only in PC-PINE,
> and preferably as a second package that will interact closely with pine.

In the DOS arena there are a number of news and mail utilities. Most that
I have encountered are good.

>From home I use a dialup SLIP with winsock under windows to access
Internet with a combined news and mail utility which is threaded. It makes
the facilities available within most UNIX mail and news offerings I've
implemented and encountered appear crude and cumbersome. (And I'm a UNIX
devotee who LOVES vi!).

When PC-PINE has a winsock implementation AND threads mail and news I'll
think carefully about changing my personal setup.

I want my users to have a system that's simple in concept to understand
and not a kludge of disparate applications doing essentially the same job.

Hence my request to extend the existing news functionality of PINE by
threading. (That's all I asked), because I think the PINE team have got
the balance between funtionality and ease of use right.

Regards,
--
Martin G. Beenham "IT - what's that?" (martin@compass)|Tel +44 635 550660
Compass Computer Group, Newbury, Berks, UK RG14 5PX |Fax +44 635 521268
Internet: [email protected] (@work)
[email protected] (@home)

From [email protected] Mon Feb 21 04:25:01 1994
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Date: Mon, 21 Feb 1994 10:16:08 +0000 (WET)
From: Martin Beenham <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Reading News Question
To: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Fri, 18 Feb 1994, David L Miller wrote:
> I think you will be pleasantly surprised by the Pine news support. For
> the novice user, the transition from a mail folder to a newsgroup will be
> barely noticable. One of the biggest reasons for putting news support into
> pine is to give the novice user something that is not as daunting as the
> conventional Unix newsreader. Pine will probably never be as
> sophisticated as the big news packages, but they do not meet the usability
> needs of our primary target audience!

I await the pleasure with antici..............................pation. It's
refreshing to find somebody who actually knows the needs of their primary
target audience. Just thread your mail as well as news (optionally for
those who like difficult news reading?) and you'll be dead centre!

As has been said, there are plenty of monolithic newsreaders (And good
they are too for those that can afford the time and think it worthwhile to
master them) so you're right not to make another one (IMHO).
;-)

Regards,
--
Martin G. Beenham "IT - what's that?" (martin@compass)|Tel +44 635 550660
Compass Computer Group, Newbury, Berks, UK RG14 5PX |Fax +44 635 521268
Internet: [email protected] (@work)
[email protected] (@home)

From [email protected] Mon Feb 21 04:48:59 1994
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Date: Mon, 21 Feb 1994 12:27:16 GMT
From: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: PC Pico enhancement
To: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine User Group <[email protected]>
X-Sender: [email protected]
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On Thu, 17 Feb 1994, David L Miller wrote:

> Unfortunately the meanings of those keys are not clearly defined on
> non-PC keyboards. Many keyboards just send a NULL for both of them...

Sorry if I wasn't clear that I'm only asking for this in the PC version of
Pico - I know the mapping of cursor keys varies widely amongst terminal
emulators and there's not much you can do about that :-(

John Stumbles [email protected]
University of Reading 0734 318435
Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AF, UK
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

> On Mon, 31 Jan 1994, I (John Stumbles) wrote:
>
> > I keep finding myself using Control with the left- and right-arrow keys to
> > try to get around: this is pretty standard key-binding in PC editors -
> > could it be implemented in PICO?

From [email protected] Mon Feb 21 05:35:45 1994
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Date: Mon, 21 Feb 1994 13:07:40 GMT
From: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Reading News Question
To: ILAN GRAIFER <[email protected]>
Cc: Martin Beenham <[email protected]>, [email protected]
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> On Thu, 17 Feb 1994, Martin Beenham wrote:
> > There is a high degree of common functionality and purpose between news
> > and mail. I for one strongly prefer them to be combined. ...
> > ................... Also, I don't wish to hop about
> > between packages when replying to news articles via mail, forwarding etc.

On Fri, 18 Feb 1994, ILAN GRAIFER wrote:
> If you take a look, at any of the newsreaders that are available for UNIX,
> you will see that there are many different options, and incorporating them
> into pine will create a package that will be extremely hard to use for
> novice users.
> I think the best part about pine is it's ease of use, and simplicity, thus
> adding so many features will increase the number of options and reduce the
> usefulness of the whole package.

I agree with having Pine have SIMPLE newsreading capabilities, for the
following reasons:

1: some sites (e.g. this one) do not have a newsreader, even rn,
available so it's pine or nothing (and as Ilan acknowledges, for PCs this
is pretty much true too)

2: as a recent novice user of rn I found it extremely hard to get the hang
of, and this had put me off making the effort to learn to use it for ages
- Pine makes it easy enough to start that the user can soon find out
whether it's for them or not - and if it is can get some appreciation of
the value of features like threading and know a bit of what to look for
in a 'real' newsreader.

And I don't think it has to make Pine difficult to use - the present
newsreading (which only works for me on unix version 3.0something, not the
PC version for some reason :-( ) doesn't change the Pine user interface
one jot, and is so much easier than rn that if I could kill or follow a
thread I'd want for nothing else.

(Actually I'd like to see killing and threading in pine for MAIL, but
that's another story...)

John Stumbles [email protected]
University of Reading 0734 318435
Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AF, UK
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

From [email protected] Mon Feb 21 05:40:35 1994
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Date: Mon, 21 Feb 1994 13:15:32 GMT
From: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: pc-pine
To: Jason Cross <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
X-Sender: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.88.9402181335.B3869-0100000@majorca>
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On Fri, 18 Feb 1994, Jason Cross wrote:

> Is there much difference (in terms of look and functionality)
> between the pc and unix versions? Is the pc version just
> as easy to compile and install as unix? Any feedback (subjective
> or objective) is welcome. Thanks a bunch.

Practically the only difference is the IMAP logon IF your Unix version
doesn't use IMAP and IF you don't have PCPINE store your password -
otherwise you might never know the difference.

Except when PCPINE runs out of memory, falls over and waves its little
legs in the air! :-)

Oh and PC - 'compile' - what's a compiler? ;-)
Installation is as easy/pig-awful-difficult as any other PC application -
i.e. a real pain first time, then OK once you know how. (I gave up on the
soi-disant PCNFS version - not even any documentation to tell you why it
doesn't work! - but the packet driver version works fine. If you're not
using packet drivers .... tough!

John Stumbles [email protected]
University of Reading 0734 318435
Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AF, UK
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

From [email protected] Mon Feb 21 07:17:22 1994
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Date: Mon, 21 Feb 1994 14:53:58 +0000 (GMT)
From: Mike Roch <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Mike Roch <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Reading Reading News Question Questioned - News!
Cc: [email protected]
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On Mon, 21 Feb 1994, John Stumbles wrote:

> I agree with having Pine have SIMPLE newsreading capabilities, for the
> following reasons:
>
> 1: some sites (e.g. this one) do not have a newsreader, even rn,
> available so it's pine or nothing (and as Ilan acknowledges, for PCs this

Apart from nn,trn and xvnews of course [see me John!]

Mike

==============================================================================
Mike Roch, Computer Services Centre, Tel: 0734 318430
The University, Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AF Fax: 0734 753094

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Date: Mon, 21 Feb 1994 14:36:59 +0000 (WET)
From: Martin Beenham <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Reading News Question
To: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Cc: ILAN GRAIFER <[email protected]>,
[email protected]
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On Mon, 21 Feb 1994, John Stumbles wrote:
> (Actually I'd like to see killing and threading in pine for MAIL, but
> that's another story...)

Well John, I think it's all part of the same story - and very central to
the plot ;-)

That's the argument I'm trying to make, anyway...

One of many good reasons for having threaded mail (as well as news):

The use of threading in mail means that excessive quoting of preceding
articles in a thread is rendered unnecessary. This should reduce the
load on the Internet, make mail easier to read and reduce space taken on
disk by stored messages.

I'm not too sure about killing mail. I use kill files to kill the body of
large news articles eg. those in bin group, so I can fetch later if the
header looks interesting.

(Also to avoid articles written by known abusives, drivel generators or
those with signatures that take up half a page: please excuse my
rantings).

In the case of mail, killing is a fairly final action! Better not IMHO
because you can't fetch a killed mail article later if you change your
mind or set the template such that it's killed accidentally (very likely
with novice users).

I'm certainly a member of the KISS camp, and agree with the sentiments of
the rest of your article. I'm not denegrating trn, I use it daily and
it's good and fast. But inflicting it on novices?

BTW
PINE team: Two in favour of threading mail so far 8*)
Any more out there?

Regards,
--
Martin G. Beenham "IT - what's that?" (martin@compass)|Tel +44 635 550660
Compass Computer Group, Newbury, Berks, UK RG14 5PX |Fax +44 635 521268
Internet: [email protected] (@work)
[email protected] (@home)

From [email protected] Mon Feb 21 10:08:27 1994
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Date: Mon, 21 Feb 1994 09:48:56 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Reading News Question
To: Martin Beenham <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
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> PINE team: Two in favour of threading mail so far 8*)
> Any more out there?

Martin,
No need to start a signature campaign... threading has been part of the
plan since we first started thinking about news support (a long time ago)!

However, threading may not make it into the upcoming release, and the
first iteration may be "poor man's" threading based on a Subject sort...
but whatever is there will certainly apply to both news and mail.

We have *not* thought about adding kill files, though I confess I've seen a
few messages that tempt me mightily :)

For the record: the next Pine release will include news posting and
subscription/unsubscription, plus a bunch of other stuff like mailcap
support. Threading, etc, is in the works, but I don't know exactly when
it will be ready.

-teg

From [email protected] Mon Feb 21 10:17:00 1994
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Date: Mon, 21 Feb 1994 12:59:35 -0500 (EST)
From: Sherry Lake <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Sherry Lake <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Bug Found in Pine....
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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> I had a user report that while he was in the addressbook he deleted an
> entry (the one and only) and then when he tried to create another, he got
> a pine "bug" message.
>

Problem was, an empty addressbook and the user pressing "C". He
thought "C" was to create (but it really is ComposeTo). Because there
were no addresses to ComposeTo, pine crashed. Here is the response from
David Miller, Pine development team:

> I just duplicated the crash. Normally we neverget an empty addressbook
> because the current Pine automatically creates an entry for pine-bugs.
> I'll make sure this gets fixed in the next release!

----
Sherry H. Lake [email protected]
Electronic Mail Consultant
George Mason University

From [email protected] Mon Feb 21 10:54:37 1994
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Date: Mon, 21 Feb 1994 13:29:23 -0500 (EST)
From: "Thomas E. Rutledge, III" <[email protected]>
Subject: Pine/News Question
To: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

When I read news via the Pine interface, the items I have finished with
and or deleted continue to show up in my list, even days later and many
log ons later... Currently, I go into my .newsrc and change the last
item read reference so they stop showing up in Pine.

Any suggestions on how to delete news items from Pine?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
U U | Thomas E. Rutledge, III | (919) 962-6501
U U N N | UNC OIT User Services |
U U N N N CCCC | CB # 3455 Phillips Hall | INTERNET Mail address:
UUUU N N N C | Chapel Hill, NC 27599 | [email protected]
N N C |---------------------------------------------------------
CCCC | :( "Where ever you go, there you are ..." ):
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From [email protected] Mon Feb 21 12:15:35 1994
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Date: Mon, 21 Feb 1994 11:56:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine/News Question
To: "Thomas E. Rutledge, III" <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Thomas,
Given a .pinerc entry something like this:
news-collections=News *{news.u.washington.edu/nntp}[*]
and a .newsrc in my home directory on the same machine where Pine is
running, you should find that any news article marked as Deleted
causes your .newsrc to be updated (in the same manner that other
newsreaders would "mark as read").

Unfortunately, the current version of Pine does not know how to eXclude
those messages from the Index view (stay tuned for the next release),
but the "D" status should be remembered across sessions by virtue of the
newsrc info.

If that is not happening, we'll need more info to help...

-teg

On Mon, 21 Feb 1994, Thomas E. Rutledge, III wrote:

> When I read news via the Pine interface, the items I have finished with
> and or deleted continue to show up in my list, even days later and many
> log ons later... Currently, I go into my .newsrc and change the last
> item read reference so they stop showing up in Pine.
>
> Any suggestions on how to delete news items from Pine?
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> U U | Thomas E. Rutledge, III | (919) 962-6501
> U U N N | UNC OIT User Services |
> U U N N N CCCC | CB # 3455 Phillips Hall | INTERNET Mail address:
> UUUU N N N C | Chapel Hill, NC 27599 | [email protected]
> N N C |---------------------------------------------------------
> CCCC | :( "Where ever you go, there you are ..." ):
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

From [email protected] Mon Feb 21 13:18:51 1994
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Date: Mon, 21 Feb 1994 21:55:05 +0100 (MEZ)
From: Guenter Mueller <[email protected]>
Subject: bug in address handling
To: Pine Mission Control {bug reports} <[email protected]>
Cc: pine-l <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Hello,

one of our user told me today and I verified that pine is not able to
reply to addresses like
Lastname.firstname=hostname%hack1%[email protected]

The To: field stays empty. You can add this address to your addressbook
but if you want to use the nickname, the To: gets replaced by an empty
string. I know that the %hack is no correct address, but it is still
used and my user was sad that she couldn't respond to her sender.

Typing this kind of address directly into the To: field is possible and
the mail gets delivered.

Kind Regards
Guenter

Guenter Mueller [email protected] Phone: +49 761 203 -4622
University of Freiburg - Computing Center FAX: -4643
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> New Phone and FAX Numbers since 10.10.93 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

From [email protected] Mon Feb 21 20:14:54 1994
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Date: Mon, 21 Feb 1994 22:48:04 -0500 (EST)
From: "Thomas E. Rutledge, III" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine/News Question
To: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Mon, 21 Feb 1994, Terry Gray wrote:

>
> Unfortunately, the current version of Pine does not know how to eXclude
> those messages from the Index view (stay tuned for the next release),
> but the "D" status should be remembered across sessions by virtue of the
> .newsrc info.

Good News! When I checked this, that is exactly what is happening -- my
newsrc IS being updated!

Thanks for clarifying, and keep up the great work on Pine!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
U U | Thomas E. Rutledge, III | (919) 962-6501
U U N N | UNC OIT User Services |
U U N N N CCCC | CB # 3455 Phillips Hall | INTERNET Mail address:
UUUU N N N C | Chapel Hill, NC 27599 | [email protected]
N N C |---------------------------------------------------------
CCCC | :( "Where ever you go, there you are ..." ):
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From [email protected] Tue Feb 22 06:38:05 1994
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Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 08:55:18 +0000 (WET)
From: Martin Beenham <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Martin Beenham <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Reading News Question
To: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9402211150.A13486-0100000@comp>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 21 Feb 1994, Richard Lee wrote:
> Of course this only works if you know those you are sending the
> message *to* also have a mail system that handles threading.

A very good point Richard, but not strictly true ;)

If I send mail or news without excessive quoting then that will reduce
network traffic whether or not the recipient has a threaded mail or news
reader.

The hope is that in order to follow threads efficiently the recipient will
get a threaded reader and the usage of threaded readers will grow like
wildfire. Network traffic due to mail and news will be reduced by 90% and
everything in the garden will be rosy. Could this be the real world?

But I'm sure I'm preaching to the converted ;)

I've probably generated enough noise on the subject for now... so I'll
shut up. This is not the right venue for this type of discussion I think,
apologies to all if I got carried away.

Regards,
--
Martin G. Beenham "IT - what's that?" (martin@compass)|Tel +44 635 550660
Compass Computer Group, Newbury, Berks, UK RG14 5PX |Fax +44 635 521268
Internet: [email protected] (@work)
[email protected] (@home)

From [email protected] Tue Feb 22 08:17:20 1994
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Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 11:00:02 -0500 (EST)
From: Software Maintenance Account <[email protected]>
Subject: Another enhancement suggestion: default-fcc = prompt
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Not using that syntax, of course, but I'd like to be able to tell pine to
*prompt* me for a folder name in which to save outgoing messages. As it
is, I have to periodically run through sent-mail in order to move the
messages to the folders in which I really want to store them.

--David

From [email protected] Tue Feb 22 09:50:52 1994
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Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 09:22:40 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Another enhancement suggestion: default-fcc = prompt
To: Software Maintenance Account <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

David,

We are planning to implement a FCC-folder-name-rule similar to the
saved-msg-name-rule in a future release. Will this be good enough? You
can already change the Fcc: by editing the header before sending...

Thanks for the suggestion!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Tue, 22 Feb 1994, Software Maintenance Account wrote:

> Not using that syntax, of course, but I'd like to be able to tell pine to
> *prompt* me for a folder name in which to save outgoing messages. As it
> is, I have to periodically run through sent-mail in order to move the
> messages to the folders in which I really want to store them.
>
> --David

From [email protected] Tue Feb 22 13:15:47 1994
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Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 20:37:39 +0000 (GMT)
From: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Reply-To: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine/News Question
To: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 21 Feb 1994, Terry Gray wrote:

> Given a .pinerc entry something like this:
> news-collections=News *{news.u.washington.edu/nntp}[*]
> and a .newsrc in my home directory on the same machine where Pine is
> running,........

I have never had this work for me with Unix Pine 3.88 - it just says
[ ** Empty List ** select here to try Re-Expanding ]
and with PC-PINE 3.89 it hangs the PC :-(.

I can read news with 3.07 using the *newsgroup way of selecting groups.
Is it me or Pine?

BTW I think the line you've shown is wrong - surely the =News *{...
> news-collections=News *{news.u.washington.edu/nntp}[*]
should be =*{... ??

My .pinerc has:
news-collections=*{mercury/nntp}[*]
and assuming that 3.07 also reads .pinerc then I think it's correct.

John Stumbles [email protected]
University of Reading 0734 318435
Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AF, UK
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

From [email protected] Tue Feb 22 13:58:45 1994
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Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 13:35:49 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine/News Question
To: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Cc: Terry Gray <[email protected]>, [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.88.9402222039.A13326-0100000@suma3>
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John,

What application wrote your .newsrc? How many groups are subscribed? If
you send a copy of your .pinerc and .newsrc files to
[email protected] we will take a look and see if we can
duplicate the problem.

The "News " is an optional nickname for the collection that will be
displayed on the FOLDER LIST screen.

Thanks for the report!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Tue, 22 Feb 1994, John Stumbles wrote:

> On Mon, 21 Feb 1994, Terry Gray wrote:
>
> > Given a .pinerc entry something like this:
> > news-collections=News *{news.u.washington.edu/nntp}[*]
> > and a .newsrc in my home directory on the same machine where Pine is
> > running,........
>
> I have never had this work for me with Unix Pine 3.88 - it just says
> [ ** Empty List ** select here to try Re-Expanding ]
> and with PC-PINE 3.89 it hangs the PC :-(.
>
> I can read news with 3.07 using the *newsgroup way of selecting groups.
> Is it me or Pine?
>
> BTW I think the line you've shown is wrong - surely the =News *{...
> > news-collections=News *{news.u.washington.edu/nntp}[*]
> should be =*{... ??
>
> My .pinerc has:
> news-collections=*{mercury/nntp}[*]
> and assuming that 3.07 also reads .pinerc then I think it's correct.
>
>
> John Stumbles [email protected]
> University of Reading 0734 318435
> Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AF, UK
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>

From [email protected] Tue Feb 22 15:30:07 1994
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Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 15:06:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Elmar Kurgpold <[email protected]>
Subject: forwarding or replying while message is postponed
To: Pine Info <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9402221504.T24131-0100000@hal>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I'm not sure if this topic has been covered, but....

It seems to me that whatever method I use to get to the compose message
screen, I should still get a warning about the postponed message (if it
exists). As it is, this only happens if I press "C" to compose, but not
if I use the forward or reply function. Can this be fixed?

------------------------------------- ,-,,-, __
| Elmar Kurgpold | ______/ /_,' |
| Network Administrator | \________________/
| University of Southern California | |<) (> |
| The Law Center | ( | oo |
| [email protected] | ) `| |--'
| (213)740-2571 FAX: (213)740-5502 | (___^^^^|
------------------------------------- (____'

From [email protected] Tue Feb 22 15:58:46 1994
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Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 18:31:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Software Maintenance Account <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Another enhancement suggestion: default-fcc = prompt
To: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Tue, 22 Feb 1994, David L Miller wrote:
> We are planning to implement a FCC-folder-name-rule similar to the
> saved-msg-name-rule in a future release. Will this be good enough? You
> can already change the Fcc: by editing the header before sending...

Maybe. I'll be able to set it to something like "last-folder-used"
and it will prompt me with that as the default before doing the actual save?

I think I can get into the habit of using rich headers and filling in the
FCC line, but an (optional) automatic prompt would sure be easier.

Hmm. Actually, a feature-list command to make rich headers the default,
or better yet a variable to allow me to select the list of default compose
headers, combined with default-FCC = "" would make me even happier, I
think.

But thanks for reminding me about the extra headers. That will
instaneously make my life easier <grin>.

--David

From [email protected] Tue Feb 22 16:07:26 1994
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Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 15:40:21 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Another enhancement suggestion: default-fcc = prompt
To: Software Maintenance Account <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Tue, 22 Feb 1994, Software Maintenance Account wrote:

> On Tue, 22 Feb 1994, David L Miller wrote:
> > We are planning to implement a FCC-folder-name-rule similar to the
> > saved-msg-name-rule in a future release. Will this be good enough? You
> > can already change the Fcc: by editing the header before sending...
>
> Maybe. I'll be able to set it to something like "last-folder-used"
> and it will prompt me with that as the default before doing the actual save?
>

I don't think there will be an extra prompt, it will just change the
default that is put in the FCC: header.

> I think I can get into the habit of using rich headers and filling in the
> FCC line, but an (optional) automatic prompt would sure be easier.
>
> Hmm. Actually, a feature-list command to make rich headers the default,
> or better yet a variable to allow me to select the list of default compose
> headers, combined with default-FCC = "" would make me even happier, I
> think.
>

We are looking into various ways of implementing this. People have been
requesting just about every possible combination of headers to show by
default. This problem is just going to multiply with the News headers
added ;)

> But thanks for reminding me about the extra headers. That will
> instaneously make my life easier <grin>.
>
> --David

From [email protected] Tue Feb 22 16:24:21 1994
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Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 16:05:02 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: bug in address handling
To: Guenter Mueller <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Mission Control {bug reports} <[email protected]>,
pine-l <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Guenter,

Pine should be able to handle that form of address without any problem.
Could you send a message that exhibits this problem to
[email protected] as an attachment?

Thanks for the report!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Mon, 21 Feb 1994, Guenter Mueller wrote:

> Hello,
>
> one of our user told me today and I verified that pine is not able to
> reply to addresses like
> Lastname.firstname=hostname%hack1%[email protected]
>
> The To: field stays empty. You can add this address to your addressbook
> but if you want to use the nickname, the To: gets replaced by an empty
> string. I know that the %hack is no correct address, but it is still
> used and my user was sad that she couldn't respond to her sender.
>
> Typing this kind of address directly into the To: field is possible and
> the mail gets delivered.
>
> Kind Regards
> Guenter
>
> Guenter Mueller [email protected] Phone: +49 761 203 -4622
> University of Freiburg - Computing Center FAX: -4643
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> New Phone and FAX Numbers since 10.10.93 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>

From [email protected] Tue Feb 22 16:39:57 1994
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Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 16:26:16 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: forwarding or replying while message is postponed
To: Elmar Kurgpold <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Info <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9402221504.T24131-0100000@hal>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I think I would find that behavior very annoying. Usually if I am
replying or forwarding a message I do not want to be distracted by a
previously interrupted message. The downside of the current behavior is
what to do when you already have a message postponed and you want to
postpone another one. This will be addressed when we add support for
multiple postponed messages....

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Tue, 22 Feb 1994, Elmar Kurgpold wrote:

> I'm not sure if this topic has been covered, but....
>
> It seems to me that whatever method I use to get to the compose message
> screen, I should still get a warning about the postponed message (if it
> exists). As it is, this only happens if I press "C" to compose, but not
> if I use the forward or reply function. Can this be fixed?
>
> ------------------------------------- ,-,,-, __
> | Elmar Kurgpold | ______/ /_,' |
> | Network Administrator | \________________/
> | University of Southern California | |<) (> |
> | The Law Center | ( | oo |
> | [email protected] | ) `| |--'
> | (213)740-2571 FAX: (213)740-5502 | (___^^^^|
> ------------------------------------- (____'
>

From [email protected] Tue Feb 22 17:11:59 1994
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Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 16:57:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Elmar Kurgpold <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Elmar Kurgpold <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: forwarding or replying while message is postponed
To: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Info <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9402221615.X24131-0100000@hal>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

David,

I see your point, and I understand that the pine team will consider this.
I suppose I can wait until the multiple postponed messages support is
added. :-)

However, I'd just like to mention that most of the mail I compose is
a reply to someone else's mail. Personally, I think of all the
methods of starting the composer essentially the same, except that the
different information may already be filled in. If I were just giving
simple "Yes", "No", or "Here is the info you requested" answers, then I
would find the behavior annoying. Frankly, I found it annoying at first
when I used the simple "compose" command-- but I got used to it. I think
it is a fair request to allow the user to postpone *any* message s/he
composes, no matter what command was used to fire up the editor.

Thanks for the consideration!

Regards,
Elmar

------------------------------------- ,-,,-, __
| Elmar Kurgpold | ______/ /_,' |
| Network Administrator | \________________/
| University of Southern California | |<) (> |
| The Law Center | ( | oo |
| [email protected] | ) `| |--'
| (213)740-2571 FAX: (213)740-5502 | (___^^^^|
------------------------------------- (____'

On Tue, 22 Feb 1994, David L Miller wrote:

>
> I think I would find that behavior very annoying. Usually if I am
> replying or forwarding a message I do not want to be distracted by a
> previously interrupted message. The downside of the current behavior is
> what to do when you already have a message postponed and you want to
> postpone another one. This will be addressed when we add support for
> multiple postponed messages....
>
> |\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
> |/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
> University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
> 4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA
>
> On Tue, 22 Feb 1994, Elmar Kurgpold wrote:
>
> > I'm not sure if this topic has been covered, but....
> >
> > It seems to me that whatever method I use to get to the compose message
> > screen, I should still get a warning about the postponed message (if it
> > exists). As it is, this only happens if I press "C" to compose, but not
> > if I use the forward or reply function. Can this be fixed?

From [email protected] Tue Feb 22 17:32:02 1994
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Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 17:18:05 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Export messages
To: Richard Lee <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9402171502.A4067-0100000@comp>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Richard,

Thanks for the suggestion! I'll make sure it gets on the list!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Thu, 17 Feb 1994, Richard Lee wrote:

> A friendly suggestion for the wonderful pine development team.
> When exporting a message to a file pine (nicely) checks to see if
> the file exists. If it does, the user is given the option of appending
> the new message to the end of the exiting file. If you say "n"o, the
> export will be canceled. (I assume ^C will have the identical effect.)
> There is no way, so far as I know, of *choosing* to overwrite the old
> message with the new one. (Of course one could shell out, rm the old
> file, and then return to the export, but that's several steps.) So
> consider adding: "File exists, (o) overwrite, (a) append, or (c) cancel?"
> If you don't like this ("hey, the other messages give yes/no
> options instead of a list"), no big deal.
>
> --
>
> Dr. Richard Lee [email protected]
> Department of Philosophy Old Main 318 [email protected]
> University of Arkansas phone: 501-575-5826
> Fayetteville, AR 72701
>

From [email protected] Wed Feb 23 04:55:37 1994
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Date: Wed, 23 Feb 1994 13:24:58 +0100 (MET)
From: Kacper Nowicki <[email protected]>
Subject: line breaking & justification
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <Pine.3.87.9402231358.t15773-0100000@ccfs1>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Hi,

Do you know how I can change automatic line breaking column ?
I would like to have narrower letters and now I have to use
"Enter" a lot.

Is it possible to automaticly justify letters in such way that each
line is filled up to line breaking point ?

How can I change character for included messages (>) ?

Thanks in advance,
Kacper

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kacper Nowicki e-mail: [email protected]
Warsaw University =================================
Institute of Experimental Physics
Hoza 69, 00-681 Warszawa fax: (+48)(22) 294309
Poland (+48) 39121805

From [email protected] Wed Feb 23 06:01:48 1994
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To: [email protected]
Subject: What does the message 'MAIL FOLDER "INBOX" CLOSED DUE TO ACCESS
ERROR' mean
X-Mailer: exmh version 1.3alpha 2/10/94
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 1994 08:45:28 EST
From: "Lawrence R. Rogers" <[email protected]>

Hi:

I have just installed pine-3.89 and a user reports getting the message:

MAIL FOLDER "INBOX" CLOSED DUE TO ACCESS ERROR

followed by it deleteing all of this person's new mail, which I assume means
the unread mail in /usr/spool/mail/foo. Have I built pine incorrectly.
Thanks.

===== ======= ======= Larry Rogers
= = = = Manager, UNIX Systems
= = = Princeton University
= = = 87 Prospect Street, Room 201
= = = Princeton, NJ 08544
= = = [email protected], princeton!lrr
= = = = Phone: 609-258-6483/6000
===== ======= = FAX: 609-258-1069/3943

From [email protected] Wed Feb 23 07:17:11 1994
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Date: Wed, 23 Feb 1994 09:00:11 -0600 (CST)
From: Richard Lee <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Richard Lee <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: forwarding or replying while message is postponed
To: Elmar Kurgpold <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9402221615.X24131-0100000@hal>
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On Tue, 22 Feb 1994, Elmar Kurgpold wrote:

> . . . I think
> it is a fair request to allow the user to postpone *any* message s/he
> composes, no matter what command was used to fire up the editor.

Well you *can* postpone messages that you reply to. The only
problem is that you are still limited to *one* postponed message, If the
pine development team implemented multiple postpones, then your problem
would, in the main, be solved, wouldn't it?

--

Dr. Richard Lee [email protected]
Department of Philosophy Old Main 318 [email protected]
University of Arkansas phone: 501-575-5826
Fayetteville, AR 72701

From [email protected] Wed Feb 23 09:18:35 1994
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Date: Wed, 23 Feb 1994 08:55:15 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: line breaking & justification
To: Kacper Nowicki <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.87.9402231358.t15773-0100000@ccfs1>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Kacper,

Pine does not currently have a way to change the wrap column. A hack that
will make Pine use shorter lines is to run "stty cols 70" or some such
before entering Pine. This will cause it to think the screen is actually
narrower than it is and thus break on shorter lines. The drawback of this
is that Pine uses the narrower width for everything...

We plan to improve the justification done by the composer. I don't know
when/if we will implement full justification though...

There is not currently an option to change the '>' character. This is on
the list of requested enhancements.

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Wed, 23 Feb 1994, Kacper Nowicki wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> Do you know how I can change automatic line breaking column ?
> I would like to have narrower letters and now I have to use
> "Enter" a lot.
>
> Is it possible to automaticly justify letters in such way that each
> line is filled up to line breaking point ?
>
> How can I change character for included messages (>) ?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Kacper
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Kacper Nowicki e-mail: [email protected]
> Warsaw University =================================
> Institute of Experimental Physics
> Hoza 69, 00-681 Warszawa fax: (+48)(22) 294309
> Poland (+48) 39121805
>
>
>
>

From [email protected] Wed Feb 23 09:42:42 1994
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Date: Wed, 23 Feb 1994 09:24:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Elmar Kurgpold <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: forwarding or replying while message is postponed
To: Richard Lee <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9402230830.A13316-0100000@comp>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9402230918.e24131-0100000@hal>
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(Boink!) I was referring to postponing a message when there was already
one postponed. If the multiple postpones feature is coming in the next
release, then my question is moot anyway. :-) I basically just want the
warning about a previously postponed message ***every*** time you start a
new message. I know that normally you wouldn't want to continue your
previous message if you were doing a reply (well, that's debatable), but
if you start a message and *can't* postpone it, I think it's fair that you
be told. 8-D

On Wed, 23 Feb 1994, Richard Lee wrote:

> On Tue, 22 Feb 1994, Elmar Kurgpold wrote:
>
> > . . . I think
> > it is a fair request to allow the user to postpone *any* message s/he
> > composes, no matter what command was used to fire up the editor.
>
> Well you *can* postpone messages that you reply to. The only
> problem is that you are still limited to *one* postponed message, If the
> pine development team implemented multiple postpones, then your problem
> would, in the main, be solved, wouldn't it?
>
> --
>
> Dr. Richard Lee [email protected]
> Department of Philosophy Old Main 318 [email protected]
> University of Arkansas phone: 501-575-5826
> Fayetteville, AR 72701
>
>
>

From [email protected] Wed Feb 23 10:22:22 1994
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Date: Wed, 23 Feb 1994 13:01:37 -0500 (EST)
From: Jeff Traigle <[email protected]>
Subject: Addressbook
To: Pine Information <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I was playing around with some Pine configurations and discovered that
there is no mechanism for remote addressbooks or remote signature files.
Being an admin for two separate sites, I would find such mechanisms very
useful. Given that IMAP is used to centralize one's mail collections, I
would think it generally useful to centralize the addressbook and
signature file within Pine as well if it's possible.

=============================================================================
| Jeff Traigle | Systems Administrator | University of Michigan |
=============================================================================
| College of Pharmacy | Biophysics Research Division |
=============================================================================
| Masters of Science in Computer Science and Engineering |
=============================================================================
| Masters of Information and Library Studies |
=============================================================================

From [email protected] Wed Feb 23 10:58:02 1994
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Date: Wed, 23 Feb 1994 10:38:59 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Contributed Pine icons
To: Steven Sietz <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9402181657.A8171-0100000@maui>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

xterm -bm pine.icon -e pine

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Fri, 18 Feb 1994, Steven Sietz wrote:

>
> How can I invoke pine to open an X-window and refer to the icons in the
> contrib directory? "xterm -e pine" gets me the window but without the fancy
> icon.
>
>
> -Steven Sietz-
>
> [email protected]
> Martin Marietta Corporation (formerly GE Aerospace - GESD)
> Government Electronic Systems
> Moorestown, NJ
>
>
>

From [email protected] Wed Feb 23 11:03:54 1994
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Date: Wed, 23 Feb 1994 10:44:25 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Addressbook
To: Jeff Traigle <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Information <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Jeff,

Both of these are indeed coming. The biggest holdup is getting the IMAP4
specification out the door so we can put together the tools we need to
handle remote files cleanly.

Thanks for the request!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Wed, 23 Feb 1994, Jeff Traigle wrote:

>
> I was playing around with some Pine configurations and discovered that
> there is no mechanism for remote addressbooks or remote signature files.
> Being an admin for two separate sites, I would find such mechanisms very
> useful. Given that IMAP is used to centralize one's mail collections, I
> would think it generally useful to centralize the addressbook and
> signature file within Pine as well if it's possible.
>
> =============================================================================
> | Jeff Traigle | Systems Administrator | University of Michigan |
> =============================================================================
> | College of Pharmacy | Biophysics Research Division |
> =============================================================================
> | Masters of Science in Computer Science and Engineering |
> =============================================================================
> | Masters of Information and Library Studies |
> =============================================================================
>
>

From [email protected] Wed Feb 23 11:08:56 1994
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Date: Wed, 23 Feb 1994 13:46:30 -0500 (EST)
From: Steven Sietz <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Contributed Pine icons
To: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9402231319.A7004-0100000@maui>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

-bm is not a valid comand line option for xterm. I was able to get it to
work using "xterm -name Pine -e pine" with the following line added to
my .Xdefaults file:

Pine*iconPixmap: /home/ssietz/pine3.89/contrib/pine.icon

-Steven Sietz-

[email protected]
Martin Marietta Corporation (formerly GE Aerospace - GESD)
Government Electronic Systems
Moorestown, NJ

On Wed, 23 Feb 1994, David L Miller wrote:

>
> xterm -bm pine.icon -e pine
>
> |\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
> |/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
> University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
> 4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA
>
> On Fri, 18 Feb 1994, Steven Sietz wrote:
>
> >
> > How can I invoke pine to open an X-window and refer to the icons in the
> > contrib directory? "xterm -e pine" gets me the window but without the fancy
> > icon.
> >
> >
> > -Steven Sietz-
> >
> > [email protected]
> > Martin Marietta Corporation (formerly GE Aerospace - GESD)
> > Government Electronic Systems
> > Moorestown, NJ
> >
> >
> >
>

From [email protected] Wed Feb 23 11:11:12 1994
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Date: Wed, 23 Feb 1994 18:55:18 GMT
From: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Reply-To: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Subject: attachments and replying
To: Pine User Group <[email protected]>,
Pine Mission Control <[email protected]>
X-Sender: [email protected]
Message-Id: <PCPine_p.3.89.9402231845.B8223-0100000@[134.225.33.95]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

(I seem to remember something about this coming up here recently, but I
can't see it in the last few hundred messages I've scanned....)

If I receive a message with an attachment (e.g. from David L Miller with a
sample .newsrc) and want to reply ("thanks David, that works") I don't
want to return the attachment - can I remove it?

I can delete the Attchmnt: line in the header, but does that do it? I
tried that and found that when I postponed the message I was warned that
the attachment would not be saved - suggesting that it was still there,
and I'd just deleted the attachment comment; but also suggesting a
workaround - to postpone and then resume the reply (assuming I hadn't
already postponed another composition!).

John Stumbles [email protected]
University of Reading 0734 318435
Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AF, UK
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

From [email protected] Wed Feb 23 11:18:29 1994
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Date: Wed, 23 Feb 1994 10:58:08 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: attachments and replying
To: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine User Group <[email protected]>,
Pine Mission Control <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <PCPine_p.3.89.9402231845.B8223-0100000@[134.225.33.95]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

John,

When you delete the last attachment, Pine does not realize that it should
"downgrade" the message type to a simple message. We will correct this
in a future release of Pine.

Thanks for the report!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Wed, 23 Feb 1994, John Stumbles wrote:

> (I seem to remember something about this coming up here recently, but I
> can't see it in the last few hundred messages I've scanned....)
>
> If I receive a message with an attachment (e.g. from David L Miller with a
> sample .newsrc) and want to reply ("thanks David, that works") I don't
> want to return the attachment - can I remove it?
>
> I can delete the Attchmnt: line in the header, but does that do it? I
> tried that and found that when I postponed the message I was warned that
> the attachment would not be saved - suggesting that it was still there,
> and I'd just deleted the attachment comment; but also suggesting a
> workaround - to postpone and then resume the reply (assuming I hadn't
> already postponed another composition!).
>
>
> John Stumbles [email protected]
> University of Reading 0734 318435
> Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AF, UK
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>
>

From [email protected] Wed Feb 23 11:22:05 1994
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Date: Wed, 23 Feb 1994 11:02:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Brad Greer <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Contributed Pine icons
To: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Cc: Steven Sietz <[email protected]>, Pine <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I believe the '-bm' option is a local hack to xterm that is not
supported in the 'normal' X11 R5 xterm client.

-- brad

On Wed, 23 Feb 1994, David L Miller wrote:

>
> xterm -bm pine.icon -e pine
>
> |\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
> |/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
> University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
> 4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA
>
> On Fri, 18 Feb 1994, Steven Sietz wrote:
>
> >
> > How can I invoke pine to open an X-window and refer to the icons in the
> > contrib directory? "xterm -e pine" gets me the window but without the fancy
> > icon.
> >
> >
> > -Steven Sietz-
> >
> > [email protected]
> > Martin Marietta Corporation (formerly GE Aerospace - GESD)
> > Government Electronic Systems
> > Moorestown, NJ
> >
> >
> >
>

****************************************************************************
Brad Greer - Software Engineer
Networks and Distributed Computing
University of Washington
INTERNET: [email protected] TELEPHONE: (206) 685-4179
****************************************************************************

From [email protected] Wed Feb 23 11:23:33 1994
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Date: Wed, 23 Feb 1994 19:02:26 GMT
From: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Subject: Displaying full headers
To: Pine User Group <[email protected]>
X-Sender: [email protected]
Message-Id: <PCPine_p.3.89.9402231943.E8223-0100000@[134.225.33.95]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I'm sure this is a FAQ - is there a way of displaying the full headers in
a received message?

John Stumbles [email protected]
University of Reading 0734 318435
Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AF, UK
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

From [email protected] Wed Feb 23 11:36:38 1994
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Date: Wed, 23 Feb 1994 14:13:46 -0500 (EST)
From: Steven Sietz <[email protected]>
Subject: Expunge folder while reading mail
To: Pine <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9402231419.A7263-0100000@maui>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I am attempting to convert over from emacs RMAIL to pine since it has
better support for folders, addressing, and other goodies. However, I
can't get over the urge to be able to expunge mail while reading
messages (not from the index). RMAIL's behavior was that while viewing a
message, the expunge command would expunge all mail in the folder and
display the first message not expunged. In pine, I must go back to the
mail index and then do the expunge.

I rely on expunge because I generally don't like to keep any mail in my
INBOX so that xbiff reflects no new mail.

-Steven Sietz-

[email protected]
Martin Marietta Corporation (formerly GE Aerospace - GESD)
Government Electronic Systems
Moorestown, NJ

From [email protected] Wed Feb 23 12:00:03 1994
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Date: Wed, 23 Feb 1994 11:42:32 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Displaying full headers
To: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine User Group <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <PCPine_p.3.89.9402231943.E8223-0100000@[134.225.33.95]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

John,

Yes, the 'H' command will give them to you. Actually, it gives you the
raw message in all its gorey detail. You need to have
enable-full-header-cmd set in the feature-list in your .pinerc file to
enable this command.

Thanks for the request!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Wed, 23 Feb 1994, John Stumbles wrote:

> I'm sure this is a FAQ - is there a way of displaying the full headers in
> a received message?
>
> John Stumbles [email protected]
> University of Reading 0734 318435
> Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AF, UK
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>

From [email protected] Wed Feb 23 12:21:02 1994
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Date: Wed, 23 Feb 1994 13:04:44 -0700 (MST)
From: "Paul G. Leo Jr." <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Displaying full headers
To: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine User Group <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <PCPine_p.3.89.9402231943.E8223-0100000@[134.225.33.95]>
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if your feature-list is set to old-growth, pressing h will display full
headers

Paul Leo e-mail [email protected]
University of Utah Medical School [email protected]
Eccles Institute of Human Genetics
Building 533 Room 2100 phone 801-585-3653
Salt Lake City, Utah 84106 fax 801-585-3910

From [email protected] Wed Feb 23 14:49:40 1994
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Wed, 23 Feb 94 14:32:54 -0800
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 1994 14:32:54 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: one rsh left around after Pine finishes
To: Barry Cornelius <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Info Mailing List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89-940130.9402081606.A7719-0100000@hercules>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Barry,

This is a known problem, but unfortunately we are thus far unable to
pinpoint the cause. We will continue to pursue it. Thanks for the report!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Tue, 8 Feb 1994, Barry Cornelius wrote:

> We run three variants of Pine 3.89:
>
> sun for computers running SunOS 4.1.2 and SunOS 4.1.3
> sol for computers running SunOS 5.2 and SunOS 5.3
> hpp for computers running HP-UX 9.01
>
> All uses of Pine on these machines use IMAP to access the user's inbox.
> The IMAP daemons run on a SunOS 4.1.3 computer called venus. We are using
> the version supplied with Pine 3.89, namely IMAP2bis Version 7.5(72).
>
> When Pine is run, it sets up two rsh processes to venus:
>
> rsh venus exec /etc/rimapd
>
> When Pine 3.89 (or 3.88) is run on a SunOS 5.2 machine, sometimes one of
> the two rsh processes still remains after the user has left Pine. This
> happens quite often during the day. But I haven't worked out why it
> happens on some occasions and not on others.
>
> Is this a known problem? Has anyone else seen this?
>
> --
> Barry Cornelius Durham (091 or +44 91) 374 4717
> Information Technology Service, IT Service Office: 374 2892
> University of Durham, Durham. Fax: 374 3741
> DH1 3LE, UK E-mail: [email protected]
>

From [email protected] Wed Feb 23 15:01:29 1994
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Date: Wed, 23 Feb 1994 14:43:24 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: PC Pico enhancement
To: Elmar Kurgpold <[email protected]>
Cc: John Stumbles <[email protected]>,
Pine User Group <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9402181408.X17356-0100000@hal>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Elmar and John,

these are reasonable requests, and we will certainly keep them in mind.
The problem is that we have far more good suggestions than we have keys
available. We also want to be very careful that the keys we define are
generally available on all platforms. We have already cut the margin
pretty close with some of our current choices, e.g. ^O, ^J, ...

Thanks for the suggestions!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Fri, 18 Feb 1994, Elmar Kurgpold wrote:

> Maybe so, but y'all managed to stick in ^Space, to skip *ahead* a word at
> a time. I've asked about this before-- are there plans to add a "skip a
> word backwords" keystroke? Just for us impatient editors... :-) Pardon
> my key-mapping ignorance, but would the keys control-< and control-> be
> possible to use? (Oh no, another keystroke change request!!!)
>
> ------------------------------------- ,-,,-, __
> | Elmar Kurgpold | ______/ /_,' |
> | Network Administrator | \________________/
> | University of Southern California | |<) (> |
> | The Law Center | ( | oo |
> | [email protected] | ) `| |--'
> | (213)740-2571 FAX: (213)740-5502 | (___^^^^|
> ------------------------------------- (____'
>
>
> On Thu, 17 Feb 1994, David L Miller wrote:
>
> >
> > John,
> >
> > Unfortunately the meanings of those keys are not clearly defined on
> > non-PC keyboards. Many keyboards just send a NULL for both of them...
> >
> > --DLM
> >
> > |\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
> > |/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
> > University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
> > 4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA
> >
> > On Mon, 31 Jan 1994, John Stumbles wrote:
> >
> > > I keep finding myself using Control with the left- and right-arrow keys to
> > > try to get around: this is pretty standard key-binding in PC editors -
> > > could it be implemented in PICO?
> > >
> > > John Stumbles [email protected]
> > > Reading University 0734 318435
> > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> > >
> >

From [email protected] Wed Feb 23 20:07:07 1994
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Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 22:50:16 EST
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
X-Mts-Userid: GCLN
Subject: Problems "pasting" in Windows.

I'm using PINE (on an office Unix machine) from home. I use ProComm Plus
for Windows to get into PINE. All works great except that I cannot
paste material from the Windows clipboard through ProCOmm+ into PINE
without the lines wrapping. For instance, the following lines in the
clipboard:

This is line 1.
This is line 2.
This is line 3.

ends up in PINE as:

This is line 1. This is line 2. This is line 3.

I've tried changing all the CR, CR/LF switches in ProComm+ to no
avail. Do you have a suggestion?

Raymond De Young ([email protected])

From [email protected] Thu Feb 24 01:34:38 1994
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Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 09:19:42 +0000 (GMT)
From: "A. Hilborne" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: PC Pine under Windows
To: Eigil Krogh Sorensen <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine User Group <[email protected]>,
Pine Mission Control <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <PCPine_f.3.89.9402131739.A6972-0100000@vkipc22>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9402240928.H18656-0100000@scawdell>
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On Sun, 13 Feb 1994, Eigil Krogh Sorensen wrote:

> I was just about to reply that I'd never seen the problem described here.
> Next thing that happend was I got the same errormessage [IMAP connection
> broken in reply] after having read a couple of e-mails more.
>
> That happend while PC-Pine was in the foreground-

I have seen identical behaviour after spending a long time in the
alternative editor composing a message. This was under SunOS 4.1.2 on an
ELC. Pine version 3.89.

I assume that Pine is simply wait(2)'ing for the editor. It may be possible
for it to do this in the select loop for the IMAP connection, trapping a
child-signal when the editor terminates.

--
Andrew M. Hilborne [email protected]
Computing Service Tel: +44 91 222 8226 (direct)
University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK. +44 91 222 8039 (Comp Service office)

From [email protected] Thu Feb 24 01:37:22 1994
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Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 09:15:10 +0000 (GMT)
From: "A. Hilborne" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pico is not quite emacs
To: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Cc: Chris Garrigues <[email protected]>, [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9402240948.G18656-0100000@scawdell>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Fri, 11 Feb 1994, Terry Gray wrote:

>
> We welcome all suggestions, save perhaps "Make all keybindings
> user-configurable..."
>

Making all _Pico_ keybindings user-configurable would surely answer complaints
about Pico vs Emacs. NOrmally users wouldn't have to touch their keybindings.

--
Andrew M. Hilborne [email protected]
Computing Service Tel: +44 91 222 8226 (direct)
University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK. +44 91 222 8039 (Comp Service office)

From [email protected] Thu Feb 24 02:19:02 1994
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Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 04:58:02 -0500
From: [email protected] (Joshua Hosseinoff)
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Standalone PC-Pine

I was trying to use PC-Pine as an offline mailreader, so I download one of
the network versions that was at ftp.cac.washington.edu. For some
reason the PC-Pine doesn't recognize the unix mail folders that I
downloaded as a valid mail folder. Does the PC-Pine use a different
format for its mail folders and is there a way to convert unix mail
folders to PC? Thanx

Josh Hosseinoff -------- [email protected]

From [email protected] Thu Feb 24 02:27:48 1994
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Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 09:10:35 +0000 (WET)
From: Martin Beenham <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Martin Beenham <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine/News Question
To: [email protected]
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On Tue, 22 Feb 1994, John Stumbles wrote:
> I have never had this work for me with Unix Pine 3.88 - it just says
> [ ** Empty List ** select here to try Re-Expanding ]
> and with PC-PINE 3.89 it hangs the PC :-(.
>
> My .pinerc has:
> news-collections=*{mercury/nntp}[*]
> and assuming that 3.07 also reads .pinerc then I think it's correct.

John,

My .pinerc (Not on compcg) has:

news-collections=Internet-News *{compcg.demon.co.uk}[]

Hope this helps.

Regards,
--
Martin G. Beenham "IT - what's that?" (martin@compass)|Tel +44 635 550660
Compass Computer Group, Newbury, Berks, UK RG14 5PX |Fax +44 635 521268
Internet: [email protected] (@work)
[email protected] (@home)

From [email protected] Thu Feb 24 02:43:36 1994
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Thu, 24 Feb 1994 10:16:41 GMT
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 10:16:40 +0000 (GMT)
From: David Brownlee <[email protected]>
Subject: Connection to IMAP server lost in pine
To: Pine-Info Maillist <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9402240928.H18656-0100000@scawdell>
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I get this on my sun - I have a screen saver that I think blocks
update till it exits, so if it runs overnight pine fills up the
output buffer, then blocks until I get in in the morning.

In the meantime the imapd gets tired of waiting :)

Not much I can do about this I guess except switch screen savers!

David

[email protected]. Network Analyst. Postmaster. Hostmaster.
<_.-^-._> Telephone: (+44) 71 477 8000 Ext:3757. <_.-^-._>
Snailmail:E308, City University, Northampton Sq, Islington, London EC1V 0HB.

On Thu, 24 Feb 1994, A. Hilborne wrote:

> On Sun, 13 Feb 1994, Eigil Krogh Sorensen wrote:
>
> > I was just about to reply that I'd never seen the problem described here.
> > Next thing that happend was I got the same errormessage [IMAP connection
> > broken in reply] after having read a couple of e-mails more.
> >
> > That happend while PC-Pine was in the foreground-
>
> I have seen identical behaviour after spending a long time in the
> alternative editor composing a message. This was under SunOS 4.1.2 on an
> ELC. Pine version 3.89.
>
> I assume that Pine is simply wait(2)'ing for the editor. It may be possible
> for it to do this in the select loop for the IMAP connection, trapping a
> child-signal when the editor terminates.
>
> --
> Andrew M. Hilborne [email protected]
> Computing Service Tel: +44 91 222 8226 (direct)
> University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK. +44 91 222 8039 (Comp Service office)
>
>

From [email protected] Thu Feb 24 02:46:55 1994
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Thu, 24 Feb 1994 10:23:03 GMT
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 10:23:01 +0000 (GMT)
From: David Brownlee <[email protected]>
Subject: Terminal 'special' keys handling
To: Pine-Info Maillist <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Every public terminal (sun/PC) at this site has PageUp/PageDown,
and also seperate delete/backspace keys... (Also Home & End)

Some thoughts on keys...

On an Xterm PageUp & PageDown work fine in pico, but not in the
index, and not at all in pico. It would be *REALLY* nice if
they would work all the time! Home & End would be nice too!

Also, an option to make Delete work the same as ^D, possibly in the
.pinerc? I know this would be bad news for people on genuine DEC
terminals, but if you make it settable via options, or even only
via .pinerc so novices dont muck it up?

What do people think?

David

[email protected]. Network Analyst. Postmaster. Hostmaster.
<_.-^-._> Telephone: (+44) 71 477 8000 Ext:3757. <_.-^-._>
Snailmail:E308, City University, Northampton Sq, Islington, London EC1V 0HB.

From [email protected] Thu Feb 24 02:49:11 1994
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Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 10:28:04 +0000 (GMT)
From: Mike Roch <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: ECSMail (fwd)
To: [email protected], Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.88.9402241050.A10681-0100000@suma3>
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Mark,

I got this message on another list. Couldn't think of anyone better to
answer it!

Mike

==============================================================================
Mike Roch, Computer Services Centre, Tel: 0734 318430
The University, Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AF Fax: 0734 753094

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 94 10:03:37 gmt
From: Andre Schappo <[email protected]>
To: [email protected],
mac-supporters mailbase list <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: ECSMail

At 11:51 21/2/94 +0000, P Browning wrote:
>Any of you out there using ECSMail? I'm just about to have
>a play with a Mac version of it. This could be the
>way forward for sites which have religous objections to
>POP - it's an IMAP client which seems to offer a similar
>level of feature-richness as Eudora.
>
>It's available for PeeCees and Unix too and apparently
>CHEST are thinking about it.
>
>I'm summarise for the list if appropriate.
>

I sometimes wonder what would be the effect of large scale usage of IMAP
clients as opposed to SMTP/POPx clients since IMAP is connection oriented
and SMTP/POPx is connectionless oriented.

Take the case of a University (say) with X thousand mail users and a single
mail server.

Now I figure if everyone used an SMTP/POPx client the system would cope
fairly well. If though everyone used an IMAP client I figure the system
would clog.

I have no proof or evidence for this. It is just something I feel in my bones.

Anyone had experience of large scale usage of IMAP clients?

Andre Schappo
Department Computer Studies,
University of Technology,
Loughborough, email: [email protected]
Leics, talk: [email protected]
LE11 3TU, tel: (0509) 222693
UK fax: (0509) 610815

From [email protected] Thu Feb 24 03:40:06 1994
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Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 11:20:23 +0000 (GMT)
From: Mike Roch <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Terminal 'special' keys handling
Cc: Pine-Info Maillist <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.88.9402241107.A10681-0100000@suma3>
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I believe Pico is a "down-sized" (demolished?) MicroEmacs. Since you can't
please all the people all the time (PC users will want wordprocessor-like
things, Unix users will want emacs/vi-like things) why not get Pico to
look for/obey a .emacsrc file and be done with it.

Dare I add that for most Pine users (that I know) configurability is a
pretty arcane area.

Mike

==============================================================================
Mike Roch, Computer Services Centre, Tel: 0734 318430
The University, Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AF Fax: 0734 753094

From [email protected] Thu Feb 24 03:40:20 1994
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Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 02:42:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: ECSMail (fwd)
To: Andre Schappo <[email protected]>, [email protected],
mac-supporters mailbase list <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected], Mike Roch <[email protected]>
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Andre -

Mike Roch forwarded your questions about IMAP vs POP performance to me.
It seems that you have several misconceptions, which I hope I can clarify.

There is no ``IMAP vs SMTP'' issue. Like POP clients, IMAP clients use
SMTP for mail delivery. Actually some POP clients may use an undocumented
extension feature in some POP servers to deliver mail without using SMTP, so
one could say the issue is ``SMTP/IMAP vs POP''. However, it is generally a
bad idea to use an access protocol such as POP or IMAP to deliver mail (a long
description of why this is so is in the IMAP4 draft document).

It is incorrect to think of POP as being ``connectionless''. POP is as
much a connection-oriented protocol as IMAP is. The difference is that for
the most part you use POP to download all messages from the server to the
client, delete from the server, and close the connection. IMAP permits this
mode of operation, but also offers a mode in which you manipulate data on the
server without having to download the entire mail folder (which implies
keeping the connection open).

IMAP servers, in general, use remarkably little CPU time. Depending upon
folder format, my implementation may need some virtual memory (note the word
``virtual'' -- it tolerates being paged out quite nicely) but even that isn't
necessarily the case; one folder format is quite a miser on system resources.

We have NEVER observed a system being overloaded because of IMAP servers.
In general, long before the system runs out of resources to handle IMAP
servers, you run into trouble due to other reasons related to a overlarge user
population; inadequate disk space, lock contention between sendmail processes,
access to /tmp, etc. In fact, sendmail will drag such a system to its knees
long before IMAP servers will.

This isn't to say that there is no cost differential between IMAP and
POP. There is. However, the concerns expressed tend to be overblown. Most
IMAP users are likely to be mobile users, who would otherwise log in to the
server system as a timesharing user. An IMAP server is ALWAYS less costly
than a user mail program run on that system. That is, a user running PC Pine
to a UNIX based server causes MUCH LESS of a load on that server than by
running UNIX Pine on the UNIX machine.

-- Mark --

From [email protected] Thu Feb 24 08:33:06 1994
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Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 08:11:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Ami Fischman <[email protected]>
Subject: Alternate editor
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Is there any way to change the DEFAULT editor in pine, so that it
automatically puts me into (say, ) emacs whenever I would otherwise be
put in pine?

--Ami
Have YOU hugged your smurf today??

From [email protected] Thu Feb 24 08:39:46 1994
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Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 08:10:39 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine on Solaris
To: Barry Cornelius <[email protected]>
Cc: "Carolynn Seeley ( Spring )" <[email protected]>,
[email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89-940130.9402161725.A11933-0100000@hercules>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Barry and Carolynn,

The latest version of the IMAP distribution contains improved process
management code that will hopefully solve or improve this problem. If you
would like to try it, get mail/imap.tar.Z from ftp.cac.washington.edu.
This distribution may also be substituted for the imap subtree of Pine
3.89 if you really want to be on the cutting edge. NOTE, this code is
still considered experimental and has not been extensively tested on some
platforms!

Thanks for the report!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Wed, 16 Feb 1994, Barry Cornelius wrote:

> On Wed, 16 Feb 1994, Carolynn Seeley ( Spring ) wrote:
>
> > I installed PINE 3.88 on our MUSS System in Dec. 93. MUSS is running
> > SunOS 5.2 Generic on a SUN Sparc. Our System Analyst reports the problem
> > below. Has anyone had a similar problem? ...
> > ... There seems to be a problem using PINE on MUSS. I am not sure if
> > the problem is with the students or a coding problem or a combination. I
> > have a large number of defunct processes. This in itself is unusual. I
> > have been having MUSS re-booted to clear these up once a week.
> > Unfortunately, the occurance of these defunct processes is increasing
> > more rapidly than before. I have traced these defunct processes back to
> > running PINE.
> > My request is this: Would you ask the question of the PINE
> > support group (or the interest group) if anyone else is experiencing this
> > problem. It looks like the process has the mail box open and another
> > Pine process can't get control of the inbox to open for read-write.
>
> I reported a problem to the pine-info mailing list last week, but got no
> response. Each day I am having to delete about 10 processes left around
> by uses of Pine. Help! Anybody got any ideas of what's going on. The
> message is repeated below. Reading your description above, it would
> appear that my problem is different to yours.
>
> Date: Tue, 8 Feb 1994 16:45:11 +0000 (GMT)
> From: Barry Cornelius <[email protected]>
> To: Pine Info Mailing List <[email protected]>
> Subject: one rsh left around after Pine finishes
>
> We run three variants of Pine 3.89:
>
> sun for computers running SunOS 4.1.2 and SunOS 4.1.3
> sol for computers running SunOS 5.2 and SunOS 5.3
> hpp for computers running HP-UX 9.01
>
> All uses of Pine on these machines use IMAP to access the user's inbox.
> The IMAP daemons run on a SunOS 4.1.3 computer called venus. We are using
> the version supplied with Pine 3.89, namely IMAP2bis Version 7.5(72).
>
> When Pine is run, it sets up two rsh processes to venus:
>
> rsh venus exec /etc/rimapd
>
> When Pine 3.89 (or 3.88) is run on a SunOS 5.2 machine, sometimes one of
> the two rsh processes still remains after the user has left Pine. This
> happens quite often during the day. But I haven't worked out why it
> happens on some occasions and not on others.
>
> Is this a known problem? Has anyone else seen this?
>
> --
> Barry Cornelius Durham (091 or +44 91) 374 4717
> Information Technology Service, IT Service Office: 374 2892
> University of Durham, Durham. Fax: 374 3741
> DH1 3LE, UK E-mail: [email protected]

From [email protected] Thu Feb 24 09:07:36 1994
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Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 08:48:33 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Alternate editor
To: Ami Fischman <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Ami,

No, you have to explicitly invoke the alternate editor from the
composer. We are considering an option to automatically invoke the
alternate editor when you move the cursor from the headers to the body of
the message, but that is about as far as we will probably go.

Thanks for the request!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Thu, 24 Feb 1994, Ami Fischman wrote:

> Is there any way to change the DEFAULT editor in pine, so that it
> automatically puts me into (say, ) emacs whenever I would otherwise be
> put in pine?
>
> --Ami
> Have YOU hugged your smurf today??
>

From [email protected] Thu Feb 24 10:00:44 1994
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Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 09:39:35 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pico is not quite emacs
To: "A. Hilborne" <[email protected]>
Cc: Terry Gray <[email protected]>, Chris Garrigues <[email protected]>,
[email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9402240948.G18656-0100000@scawdell>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Andrew,

The problem is that user-configurable keybindings make for a customer
support nightmare! If you want Pico with configurable keys, get EMACS ;)

Thanks for the suggestion!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Thu, 24 Feb 1994, A. Hilborne wrote:

> On Fri, 11 Feb 1994, Terry Gray wrote:
>
> >
> > We welcome all suggestions, save perhaps "Make all keybindings
> > user-configurable..."
> >
>
> Making all _Pico_ keybindings user-configurable would surely answer complaints
> about Pico vs Emacs. NOrmally users wouldn't have to touch their keybindings.
>
> --
> Andrew M. Hilborne [email protected]
> Computing Service Tel: +44 91 222 8226 (direct)
> University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK. +44 91 222 8039 (Comp Service office)

From [email protected] Thu Feb 24 10:04:45 1994
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Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 09:33:32 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: PC Pine under Windows
To: "A. Hilborne" <[email protected]>
Cc: Eigil Krogh Sorensen <[email protected]>,
Pine User Group <[email protected]>,
Pine Mission Control <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9402240928.H18656-0100000@scawdell>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Andrew,

This is indeed a known limitation of the alternate editor that we plan to
address in an upcoming release. Thanks for the report!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Thu, 24 Feb 1994, A. Hilborne wrote:

> On Sun, 13 Feb 1994, Eigil Krogh Sorensen wrote:
>
> > I was just about to reply that I'd never seen the problem described here.
> > Next thing that happend was I got the same errormessage [IMAP connection
> > broken in reply] after having read a couple of e-mails more.
> >
> > That happend while PC-Pine was in the foreground-
>
> I have seen identical behaviour after spending a long time in the
> alternative editor composing a message. This was under SunOS 4.1.2 on an
> ELC. Pine version 3.89.
>
> I assume that Pine is simply wait(2)'ing for the editor. It may be possible
> for it to do this in the select loop for the IMAP connection, trapping a
> child-signal when the editor terminates.
>
> --
> Andrew M. Hilborne [email protected]
> Computing Service Tel: +44 91 222 8226 (direct)
> University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK. +44 91 222 8039 (Comp Service office)
>

From [email protected] Thu Feb 24 10:10:01 1994
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Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 09:45:19 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Standalone PC-Pine
To: Joshua Hosseinoff <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Joshua,

Yes, PC-Pine does use a different folder format. The next version of
Unix Pine will include support for the MTX format used in PC-Pine, but
that is only a small part of making Pine a reasonable offline mail
reader. We will be working on the necessary changes over the next
few releases of Pine.

Thanks for the request!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Thu, 24 Feb 1994, Joshua Hosseinoff wrote:

>
> I was trying to use PC-Pine as an offline mailreader, so I download one of
> the network versions that was at ftp.cac.washington.edu. For some
> reason the PC-Pine doesn't recognize the unix mail folders that I
> downloaded as a valid mail folder. Does the PC-Pine use a different
> format for its mail folders and is there a way to convert unix mail
> folders to PC? Thanx
>
> Josh Hosseinoff -------- [email protected]

From [email protected] Thu Feb 24 11:00:22 1994
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Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 13:38:24 -0500 (EST)
From: Sherry Lake <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Sherry Lake <[email protected]>
Subject: Questions...
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

1. Is there a way in pine to define "user" headers, such as Reply-To:
and Return-Receipt-To:, so they will be included on an out-going message.
In 'elm' and 'mush', you can create user-definable headers. If not, any
plans in the future???

2. Can you include other messages while composing a message? For
example, I am composing a message to "jay" and want to include message 34
and 56 from my INBOX in this message. Is there a way to "easily" do this?

Thanks - From a converted MUSh user.

-----
Sherry H. Lake [email protected]
Electronic Mail Consultant
George Mason University

From [email protected] Thu Feb 24 11:39:05 1994
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Thu, 24 Feb 94 11:15:04 -0800
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 11:15:03 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Questions...
To: Sherry Lake <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Sherry,

The next release of Pine will definitely include the Reply-To: header.
We are still working out the mechanisms to allow user-defined headers in
a reasonable way. Currently, the only way to include multiple messages
in an outgoing message is to export them to a file and read them into or
attach them to the new composition. The next version of Pine will at
least start to simplify that procedure.

Thanks for the requests!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Thu, 24 Feb 1994, Sherry Lake wrote:

> 1. Is there a way in pine to define "user" headers, such as Reply-To:
> and Return-Receipt-To:, so they will be included on an out-going message.
> In 'elm' and 'mush', you can create user-definable headers. If not, any
> plans in the future???
>
> 2. Can you include other messages while composing a message? For
> example, I am composing a message to "jay" and want to include message 34
> and 56 from my INBOX in this message. Is there a way to "easily" do this?
>
> Thanks - From a converted MUSh user.
>
> -----
> Sherry H. Lake [email protected]
> Electronic Mail Consultant
> George Mason University
>
>

From [email protected] Thu Feb 24 11:57:38 1994
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Thu, 24 Feb 94 11:29:15 -0800
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 11:29:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Questions...
To: Sherry Lake <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Sherry,
Both of these are on the "shorter" list of requested enhancements.
Too soon to say *exactly* what will make it into the next release, though.

-teg

On Thu, 24 Feb 1994, Sherry Lake wrote:

> 1. Is there a way in pine to define "user" headers, such as Reply-To:
> and Return-Receipt-To:, so they will be included on an out-going message.
> In 'elm' and 'mush', you can create user-definable headers. If not, any
> plans in the future???
>
> 2. Can you include other messages while composing a message? For
> example, I am composing a message to "jay" and want to include message 34
> and 56 from my INBOX in this message. Is there a way to "easily" do this?
>
> Thanks - From a converted MUSh user.
>
> -----
> Sherry H. Lake [email protected]
> Electronic Mail Consultant
> George Mason University
>
>
>

From [email protected] Thu Feb 24 12:17:20 1994
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Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 13:58:19 -0600 (CST)
From: Chris Garrigues <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Chris Garrigues <[email protected]>
Subject:
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

I got the following message from pine when looking at a message sent from
meuf:

[The following text is in the "iso-8879-1" character set]
[Your display is set for the "ISO-8859-1" character set]
[Some characters may be displayed incorrectly]

A case-insentive comparison certainly seems reasonable, no?

Chris

Chris Garrigues (MIME capable) [email protected]
Microelectronics and Computer Technology Corporation +1 512 338 3328
3500 West Balcones Center Drive Fax +1 512 338 3838
Austin, TX 78759-6509 USA

From [email protected] Thu Feb 24 12:47:36 1994
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Cc: Pine User Group <[email protected]>
To: "Pine mailer discussions group (pine-infoEcac.washington.edu)" <[email protected]>

From [email protected] Thu Feb 24 13:00:27 1994
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Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 15:32:08 -0500 (EST)
From: Adam J Weitzman <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Adam J Weitzman <[email protected]>
Subject: No message text if I don't go with "full headers"
To: Pine Mailing List <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

I'm using Pine 3.07 on a SunOS 4.1.2 UNIX box.

Occasionally, I get mail with just headers and no message. I usually
figure, "Oh, this guy sent something out by mistake" or whatever, but one
time I hit the "H" key to see the full headers, and lo and behold, a
message appeared at the bottom out of thin air. A look at the headers
revealed this:

Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="Boundary (ID mMUBo+QQrtWQIXsCyCqPSw)"

as one of the headers. What is happening here? When I don't have "full
headers" on, it looks like the message is completely blank, and when I
turn the headers on, it looks like a normal mail (with lots of headers).

- Adam J Weitzman
INDIVIDUAL, Inc.
[email protected]

From [email protected] Thu Feb 24 13:18:46 1994
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Thu, 24 Feb 94 13:02:53 -0800
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 13:02:53 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: your mail
To: Chris Garrigues <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Chris,

The comparison *is* case insensitive, but note that '7' is not the same as
'5' in either case... ;)

Thanks for the report!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Thu, 24 Feb 1994, Chris Garrigues wrote:

> I got the following message from pine when looking at a message sent from
> meuf:
>
> [The following text is in the "iso-8879-1" character set]
> [Your display is set for the "ISO-8859-1" character set]
> [Some characters may be displayed incorrectly]
>
> A case-insentive comparison certainly seems reasonable, no?
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> Chris Garrigues (MIME capable) [email protected]
> Microelectronics and Computer Technology Corporation +1 512 338 3328
> 3500 West Balcones Center Drive Fax +1 512 338 3838
> Austin, TX 78759-6509 USA
>
>

From [email protected] Thu Feb 24 13:26:31 1994
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Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 13:09:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Subject: re:
To: Chris Garrigues <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

On Thu, 24 Feb 1994 13:58:19 -0600 (CST), Chris Garrigues wrote:
> I got the following message from pine when looking at a message sent from
> meuf:
>
> [The following text is in the "iso-8879-1" character set]
> [Your display is set for the "ISO-8859-1" character set]
> [Some characters may be displayed incorrectly]
>
> A case-insentive comparison certainly seems reasonable, no?

A case-insensitive comparison is reasonable, but not a numeric-insensitive
comparison (note 8879 vs 8859). I think that 8879 is an error on the part of
whomever sent the message.

From [email protected] Thu Feb 24 13:30:08 1994
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Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 13:13:25 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: No message text if I don't go with "full headers"
To: Adam J Weitzman <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Mailing List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Adam,

It looks like Pine is seeing a MIME message, but is not able to correctly
parse it as such. This is often caused by not having the required blank
line between the header and body of the message. Or, the boundaries
between parts may not be in quite the expected form, etc.

My first recommendation would be to upgrade to Pine 3.89. If Pine 3.89
still cannot read the problem messages, send us a copy of one of them as
an attachment and we will figure out what the problem is.

Thanks for the report!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Thu, 24 Feb 1994, Adam J Weitzman wrote:

> I'm using Pine 3.07 on a SunOS 4.1.2 UNIX box.
>
> Occasionally, I get mail with just headers and no message. I usually
> figure, "Oh, this guy sent something out by mistake" or whatever, but one
> time I hit the "H" key to see the full headers, and lo and behold, a
> message appeared at the bottom out of thin air. A look at the headers
> revealed this:
>
> Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="Boundary (ID mMUBo+QQrtWQIXsCyCqPSw)"
>
> as one of the headers. What is happening here? When I don't have "full
> headers" on, it looks like the message is completely blank, and when I
> turn the headers on, it looks like a normal mail (with lots of headers).
>
> - Adam J Weitzman
> INDIVIDUAL, Inc.
> [email protected]
>
>
>
>
>
>

From [email protected] Thu Feb 24 13:32:58 1994
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Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 13:12:57 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Subject: re: No message text if I don't go with "full headers"
To: Adam J Weitzman <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Mailing List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Hello. Please save a message which demonstrates this problem to a file, and
then mail that file to us ([email protected]) as a Pine attachment.
We'll analyze it figure out if it's a bug in our stuff, or if the message is
badly-formed MIME. If the former, we'll fix the bug; if the latter, we'll get
in touch with the sender so he can fix his bug.

From [email protected] Thu Feb 24 13:41:33 1994
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Subject: Re: your mail
From: Billy Barron <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 15:23:36 -0600
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]> from "Chris Garrigues" at Feb 24, 94 01:58:19 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 513
Message-Id: <[email protected]>

In reply to Chris Garrigues's message:
>
>I got the following message from pine when looking at a message sent from
>meuf:
>
> [The following text is in the "iso-8879-1" character set]
> [Your display is set for the "ISO-8859-1" character set]
> [Some characters may be displayed incorrectly]
>
>A case-insentive comparison certainly seems reasonable, no?
>
Even so it would not match. See "8879" vs "8859". :-)

--
Billy Barron, Network Services Manager, Univ of Texas at Dallas
[email protected]

From [email protected] Thu Feb 24 14:29:20 1994
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Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 17:05:57 -0500 (EST)
From: Jeff Traigle <[email protected]>
Subject: Pine dumping core
To: Pine Information <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I run Pine from an xterm with the following line in my .xinitrc on Suns
running SunOS 4.1.3:

/usr/local/x11r5/bin/xterm -geometry 87x24--1-8 -e pine &

Every time I quit Pine in this case, it dumps core. Anybody else notice
this behavior? Know what's causing it?

--
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Jeff Traigle |
| Systems Administrator |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| University of Michigan University of Michigan |
| College of Pharmacy Biophysics Research Division |
| Pharmacy Building, Room 1033 Chemistry Building, Room 3080 |
| Ann Arbor MI 48109 Ann Arbor MI 48109 |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| [email protected] Pager: (313) 617-8793 |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From [email protected] Thu Feb 24 14:40:33 1994
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Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 14:18:55 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Read only folders for some, read-write for others
To: Elmar Kurgpold <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9401201633.A20433-0100000@hal>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Elmar,

Sorry about the late reply. The ideal behavior would be for Pine to know
that the folder was read-only and to not attempt to get write access.
Unfortunately, there is currently no mechanism for this except for the
first folder opened, in which case you can use "-o" on the command line.

Perhaps the following would work in your .pinerc:

inbox-path={develop}/home/develop/compute/incoming
incoming-folders=Personal /usr/spool/mail/$USER

Then set up pine as an alias to "pine -o".

I hope this helps!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Thu, 20 Jan 1994, Elmar Kurgpold wrote:

> I've been trying to setup a folder that many people could open up with
> read-only access, and one designated person could read and write. I tried
> some variations on the methods in the attached message below, but couldn't
> get anything to work with IMAP. By the way, I want this folder to be
> treated as an incoming folder.
>
> Right now, the only thing that works is
>
> incoming-folders=incoming {develop}/home/develop/compute/incoming
>
> Then I just do some Unix group ownership tricks to allow only the owner of
> the file to modify it. However, this results in some strange messages and
> weird behavior when opening the folder read-only, which I'd like to avoid
> since it is confusing. Anyone have any ideas how I can do this and still
> use IMAP?
>
> ------------------------------------- ,-,,-, __
> | Elmar Kurgpold | ______/ /_,' |
> | Network Administrator | \________________/
> | University of Southern California | |<) (> |
> | The Law Center | ( | oo |
> | [email protected] | ) `| |--'
> | (213)740-2571 FAX: (213)740-5502 | (___^^^^|
> ------------------------------------- (____'
>
>
>
> On Fri, 3 Dec 1993, Terry Gray wrote:
>
> > Isaias,
> > "news.u.washington.edu" is only an example; it is not available to you
> > for news access. You will need to find a news server (perhaps from
> > your Internet provider) that you can use.
> >
> > Chances are you really do want to use nntp, since it is easier to find
> > news servers that run nntp than those that run IMAPd and will let you
> > have an account on them. (Unlike nntp, IMAPd uses a newsrc file on
> > the same machine as the news database.)
> >
> > Remember that *for now* you must run another newsreader to initially
> > create a suitable newsrc file. Once you have successfully read news via
> > some other program, presumably using nntp, it should be easy to get Pine
> > to do the same.
> >
> > -teg
> >
> > On Fri, 3 Dec 1993, Isaias Callejas Mancilla. wrote:
> >
> > > On Thu, 2 Dec 1993, David L Miller wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Henry,
> > > >
> > > > You need to specify the news server in your .pinerc file. Something like
> > > >
> > > > news-collections=*{server/nntp}[*]
> > > >
> > > > where "server" is the name of the NNTP server you want to use. You will
> > > > also need a .newsrc file as generated by another newsreader like rrn or
> > > > nn.
> > > >
> > > > --DLM
> > > >
> > > > |\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
> > > > |/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
> > > > University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
> > > > 4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, 2 Dec 1993, Henry Kuo wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi! Everyone:
> > > > >
> > > > > How can I read newsgroup by pine?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > `~~~~~~
> > > > > @(0-0)
> > > > > ---------oOO----^---OOo-------
> > > > >
> > > > > ^.^ Henry.........
> > > > > ------------------------------
> > > > >
> > >
> > > That's O.K..
> > > In my ".pinerc" configuration file I have got it :
> > >
> > > # news-collections specifies one or more collections of news groups.
> > > # News collection syntax: optnl-label *{news-host/protocol}[]
> > > # Examples:
> > > # news-collections=News *[] <-- if your login host carries news
> > > # news-collections=Subscribed-Groups *{news.u.washington.edu/nntp}[]
> > > news-collections=News *{news.u.washington.edu/imapd}[]
> > > ^
> > > I haven't nntp yet...then type "imapd"--------|
> > >
> > > When PINE show me the folder's screen, exist a line about remote
> > > conection :
> > >
> > > " [ Select Here to See Expanded List ]"
> > >
> > > Then I press <return> on it and PINE connect to news.u.washington.edu, but
> > > ask me for a "login" and "password"....
> > > I don't know what type!!!
> > >
> > > Pardon if is it obvious... but I don't know what type...or
> > > news.u.washington.edu is not a server for "news"???
> > >
> > > Than's in advance... :(
> > >
> > > /####### E. Isaias Callejas M.
> > > /# /############ Group System Managers from Microvax 3400 System
> > > /## /############## Coordination of Computing Services
> > > ### /## ### Academic Computing
> > > ### ### ### National University of Mexico
> > > ### ########## ###
> > > ### ### ### =================================================
> > > ### ##/ ###
> > > ##############/ ##/ Internet : [email protected]
> > > ############/ #/ Bitnet : [email protected]
> > > #######/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >

From [email protected] Thu Feb 24 15:04:49 1994
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Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 14:38:33 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine dumping core
To: Jeff Traigle <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Information <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Jeff,

Try the following in your .xinitrc:

/usr/local/x11r5/bin/xterm -geometry 87x24--1-8 -e pine.sh &

pine.sh:

#!/bin/sh
pine
sleep 1

This gets around a timing race that currently occurs with Pine run in a
Sun xterm.

Thanks for the report!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Thu, 24 Feb 1994, Jeff Traigle wrote:

>
> I run Pine from an xterm with the following line in my .xinitrc on Suns
> running SunOS 4.1.3:
>
> /usr/local/x11r5/bin/xterm -geometry 87x24--1-8 -e pine &
>
> Every time I quit Pine in this case, it dumps core. Anybody else notice
> this behavior? Know what's causing it?
>
> --
> +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
> | Jeff Traigle |
> | Systems Administrator |
> +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
> | University of Michigan University of Michigan |
> | College of Pharmacy Biophysics Research Division |
> | Pharmacy Building, Room 1033 Chemistry Building, Room 3080 |
> | Ann Arbor MI 48109 Ann Arbor MI 48109 |
> +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
> | [email protected] Pager: (313) 617-8793 |
> +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
>
>

From [email protected] Thu Feb 24 16:34:14 1994
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Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 16:19:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Jason R. Thorpe" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine dumping core
To: Jeff Traigle <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Information <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Thu, 24 Feb 1994, Jeff Traigle wrote:

>
> I run Pine from an xterm with the following line in my .xinitrc on Suns
> running SunOS 4.1.3:
>
> /usr/local/x11r5/bin/xterm -geometry 87x24--1-8 -e pine &

Your xterm has to sleep to give pine a chance to exit...

Do this...

/usr/local/x11r5/bin/xterm -geometry 87x24--1-8 -e xpine.csh &

-----xpine.csh-----
#!/bin/csh -f
/usr/local/bin/pine
sleep 2

Hope it helps...

Later...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason R. Thorpe [email protected] 737-9533
OSU CS Support CSWest Room 12 737-2552
'These are my opinions and not necessarily those of anyone else.'

From [email protected] Thu Feb 24 17:12:35 1994
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Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 16:59:29 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: What does the message 'MAIL FOLDER "INBOX" CLOSED DUE TO ACCESS ERROR' mean
To: "Lawrence R. Rogers" <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Lawrence,

The message ``Folder format invalidated (consult an expert), aborted'' means
that Pine was reading your mail folder, and at the point in which it expected
a start-of-message header line, it found something else.

The start-of-message header line is in the form:
From [email protected] Wed Feb 23 11:43:10 PST 1994
There are variations in the format of the date and time.

The ``format invalidated'' condition can happen in one of three ways:
1) bad data exists at the beginning of the folder.
2) data was appended to the folder after Pine initially read it, and the new
data did not begin with a start-of-message-header.
3) the folder was modified without Pine being aware of it.

All three problems are generally caused by software external to Pine.

Condition (1) can be determined by whether or not the problem repeats itself
after restarting Pine. If restarting Pine does not make the problem go away,
then you need to look at the actual file for the folder and see what is wrong
with the very first line. In particular, make sure that the first character
of the folder file is a capital ``F'' , the second an ``r'', the third an
``o'', etc.

Condition (2) may be caused by a mail delivery process (e.g. /bin/mail) which
writes some characters other than ``From '' at the beginning of the new data.

Condition (3) is caused by some program manipulating the mail folder without
following the Pine folder locking protocol. This is a general problem on
UNIX.

Conditions (2) and (3) have also been known to occur when accessing folders
via NFS, if the information returned by the stat() and read() system calls do
not correspond with each other as a result of NFS buffer caching.

Restarting Pine on that folder always clears conditions (2) and (3). If the
problem is chronic, it may be worth an investigation to determine its cause.
Usually, it is due to the misbehavior of some external software. The reason
why Pine gives up with conditions (2) and (3) is that it does not want to risk
damaging user data by guessing what is right. Pine never writes to the folder
unless it is absolutely sure it knows what it is doing.

There are some steps which can be taken to reduce the risk of these conditions
coming up. Some of these steps may require the assistance of your system
adminstrator (or whomever it was that built and installed Pine on your
system):
1) Use IMAP instead of NFS to access remote folders. This is perhaps the
single most important cause of user difficulties.
2) Consider enabling the mbox driver in Pine. If the mbox driver is enabled,
mail is transferred from the /usr/spool/mail mail into a file called mbox
in your home directory, if mbox exists. The home directory mbox file is
then your INBOX. This has the advantage that Pine and the mail delivery
system are never in contention for the INBOX. Pine only empties the
/usr/spool/mail file, it never tries updating it.
3) Be careful not to run other programs that access your folders while you
are running Pine. Such programs may modify the folder from under Pine,
and lead Pine to conclude that there is a problem.

Thanks for the report!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Wed, 23 Feb 1994, Lawrence R. Rogers wrote:

> Hi:
>
> I have just installed pine-3.89 and a user reports getting the message:
>
> MAIL FOLDER "INBOX" CLOSED DUE TO ACCESS ERROR
>
> followed by it deleteing all of this person's new mail, which I assume means
> the unread mail in /usr/spool/mail/foo. Have I built pine incorrectly.
> Thanks.
>
>
> ===== ======= ======= Larry Rogers
> = = = = Manager, UNIX Systems
> = = = Princeton University
> = = = 87 Prospect Street, Room 201
> = = = Princeton, NJ 08544
> = = = [email protected], princeton!lrr
> = = = = Phone: 609-258-6483/6000
> ===== ======= = FAX: 609-258-1069/3943
>

From [email protected] Thu Feb 24 17:25:37 1994
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Thu, 24 Feb 94 17:10:07 -0800
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 17:10:07 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Wishes for Pine Improvements
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Mark,

Thanks for the nice words! We have recently recieved word of two separate
VMS pine ports by outside contributors, so the VMS people may not be out in
the cold forever...

It does not look like offline support will make it into the next release
of Pine, but we are hoping to get something put together soon. We also
plan to implement multiple addressbook support soon.

Thanks for the requests!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Tue, 15 Feb 1994 [email protected] wrote:

> I love Pine! It isn't as flexible as Elm or as Mac-like as the Mac-Eudora
> client. Nor does it act as a client that will phone my account periodically
> like AOL does. Still it is a wonderful product. My students, who are local
> teachers, have found ways to circumvent their VMS account, which doesn't use
> Pine, to telnet to WSUV, which does. That's proof of its ease of use.
>
> I would like to see Pine as a Mac POP client that uses the communications
> toolbox, much as Eudora does. There are many advantages to reading and
> writing mail offline. The first is that I can't get online. there just
> aren't enough dialups anymore. The second is that when I do get on, the net
> is too slow to think and write at the same time. This is why I've started
> forwarding my mail to AOL from my UNIX account. I can't check my mail
> several times per day automatically and read and write offline. When the
> dialups are busy, I don't worry because I know they will eventually be free
> and I don't have to keep trying to get on manually.
>
> I'd also like to see multiple personal and shared addressbooks. This would
> help me organize my lists (e.g., class,
> committee, department, professional, etc.).
>
> Keep up the good work.
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> | Mark G. Gillingham | [email protected] |
> | WSU Vancouver | Voice- 206 737-2010 |
> | 1812 E McLoughlin Blvd | FAX- 206 690-4611 |
> | Vancouver WA 98663 | 503-228-6307 (home & FAX) |
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> ++++++++++++

From [email protected] Thu Feb 24 18:42:21 1994
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Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 20:29:10 -0600 (CST)
From: Matt Simmons <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: What does the message 'MAIL FOLDER "INBOX" CLOSED DUE TO ACCESS ERROR' mean
To: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Cc: "Lawrence R. Rogers" <[email protected]>, [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
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Honestly, what works for me 99% of the time is to load it into dmail (or
equivalent), do something to it which causes dmail to rewrite the
mailbox, exit dmail, and re-run pine.

[email protected] Matt Simmons Bradley University, Peoria, IL
Found in the BU Scout Personals:
"Jane--I don't want to be alone again for Valentine's Day. I want to work
this out. I was just hurt that you would sleep with my best friend ...
repeatedly ... in my bed. Actually, never mind. Go to hell. John"

From [email protected] Thu Feb 24 20:41:46 1994
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From: [email protected] (Dean Brooks)
Subject: Remove from list
To: [email protected]
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 23:26:34 -0500 (EST)
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Hello,

Please remove my name "[email protected]" from the PINE mailing
list.

Thanks!
--
<><> Dean Brooks Internet: [email protected]
<><> System Administrator / Postmaster CompuServe: 70672,2405
<><> IgLou Internet Services

From [email protected] Thu Feb 24 21:26:13 1994
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Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 21:14:54 -0800 (PST)
From: "Henry Kuo @(0-0)" <[email protected]>
Subject: Subscribe and Unsubscribe
To: [email protected]
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Hi! How can I subscribe and unsubscribe the pine-info mailing list?

=Henry=

From [email protected] Thu Feb 24 22:18:31 1994
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Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 22:06:42 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Subscribe and Unsubscribe
To: "Henry Kuo @(0-0)" <[email protected]>, Dean Brooks <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
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Henry and Dean,

Requests to subscribe or unsubscribe should be sent to
[email protected]. If you need to communicate with a real
person, the address is [email protected].

Please do not address requests to the list. Thank you.

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Thu, 24 Feb 1994, Henry Kuo @(0-0) wrote:

>
>
> Hi! How can I subscribe and unsubscribe the pine-info mailing list?
>
>
> =Henry=

From [email protected] Sat Feb 26 23:46:54 1994
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Date: Sun, 27 Feb 1994 08:32:04 +0100 (MEZ)
From: Graham de Vahl Davis <[email protected]>
Subject:
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Dear Pine Team,

I am a happy Pine user. Congratulations on developing an easy and useful=
=20
mail handler. But (compliments are often followed by buts)

1. Is it (or could it be made) possible to have the Receipt Time recorded
in the header of incoming messages, as well as the Date and time of
dispatch? Sometimes messages are received in a different chronological
order from that of their dispatch, and it would be useful to have this
information recorded.=20

2. Is it (or could it be made) possible to bring in another message during
a Reply (i.e., other than the message being Replied to)? The only way I
can see to do this at present is to export that message to a file, and
then read it into the reply. But that means anticipating that the message
will be needed; if not, the Reply must be postponed while the export is
done.=20

I look forward to your comments.

Graham de Vahl Davis

*----------------------------------------------------------*
| Professor Graham de Vahl Davis |
| From 22nd Feb to 6th Mar 1994: |=20
| c/o Dr Tomek Kowalewski |
| Max-Planck-Institut, Bunsenstr. 10, D-37073 Goettingen |=20
| E-mail: [email protected] |
| Phone: (+49 551) 709 2546; Fax: 709 2704; Home: 709 2569 |=20
| |
| Permanent e-mail address (messages will be forwarded): |
| [email protected] |
=FF| |=20
*----------------------------------------------------------*

From [email protected] Sun Feb 27 00:06:39 1994
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From: Graham de Vahl Davis <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <594060*@su-kom.dsv.su.se>
To: "Pine mailer discussions group (pine-infoEcac.washington.edu)" <[email protected]>,
Pine Information <[email protected]>

From [email protected] Sun Feb 27 15:29:30 1994
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Date: Sun, 27 Feb 1994 15:19:40 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: your mail
To: Graham de Vahl Davis <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
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Graham,

The Berkeley mailbox format (default on most systems) includes the date=20
and time recieved on the internal "From " that precedes each message. =20
However, if you "save" a message, that date and time will be updated with=
=20
the date and time saved.

A future version of Pine will include a capability to include a message=20
directly...

Thanks for the requests!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Sun, 27 Feb 1994, Graham de Vahl Davis wrote:

>=20
>=20
> Dear Pine Team,
>=20
> I am a happy Pine user. Congratulations on developing an easy and useful=
=20
> mail handler. But (compliments are often followed by buts)
>=20
> 1. Is it (or could it be made) possible to have the Receipt Time recorde=
d
> in the header of incoming messages, as well as the Date and time of
> dispatch? Sometimes messages are received in a different chronological
> order from that of their dispatch, and it would be useful to have this
> information recorded.=20
>=20
> 2. Is it (or could it be made) possible to bring in another message duri=
ng
> a Reply (i.e., other than the message being Replied to)? The only way I
> can see to do this at present is to export that message to a file, and
> then read it into the reply. But that means anticipating that the messag=
e
> will be needed; if not, the Reply must be postponed while the export is
> done.=20
>=20
> I look forward to your comments.
>=20
> Graham de Vahl Davis
>=20
> *----------------------------------------------------------*
> | Professor Graham de Vahl Davis |
> | From 22nd Feb to 6th Mar 1994: |=20
> | c/o Dr Tomek Kowalewski |
> | Max-Planck-Institut, Bunsenstr. 10, D-37073 Goettingen |=20
> | E-mail: [email protected] |
> | Phone: (+49 551) 709 2546; Fax: 709 2704; Home: 709 2569 |=20
> | |
> | Permanent e-mail address (messages will be forwarded): |
> | [email protected] |
> =FF| |=20
> *----------------------------------------------------------*
>=20