From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sun Jan 2 22:38:44 1994

From [email protected] Sun Jan 2 22:38:44 1994
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Date: Mon, 3 Jan 1994 01:23:25 -0500 (EST)
From: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine using tvi925 emulation
To: "Tami L. Salz" <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected], [email protected].
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Hello,
This sounds like a simple problem of there not being a termcap (or
terminfo) entry for tvi925's.

Unfortunately, knowing a tvi925's once having had one on my desk, there's
another problem in that the require a space on the screen to change video
attributes (reverse video) and Pine doesn't work with these terminals in
the normal node. The screen painting gets all scrambled. The Pine
Tech Notes have a solution for this and includes a termcap entry that
should work.

There's also the problem that the arrow keys on these terminals don't
work because the send control key sequences that Pine uses for some of
it's commands. There's no real work around for these.

I believe most of these problems occur with Wyse60's too.

Laurence Lundblade
[email protected] 703-552-2537
Virginia Tech -- Blacksburg, Virginia

On Wed, 22 Dec 1993, Tami L. Salz wrote:

> Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1993 10:19:12 -0500 (EST)
> From: Tami L. Salz <[email protected]>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Pine using tvi925 emulation
>
> Hi,
>
> We have some users with Wyse dumb terminals with tvi925 emulation
> who would like to use Pine. They are getting the message from Pine that
> tvi925 aren't known.
>
> "Terminal type "tvi925", is unknown"
>
> tvi925 is the only emulation that these (old) terminals
> are capable of.
>
> Anyone have any suggestions, or will this just not work.
>
> thanks,
>
>
> Tami Salz phone: (617) 353-2780
> Analyst/Consultant III or (617) 353-7272
> Boston University e-mail: [email protected]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

From [email protected] Mon Jan 3 07:45:40 1994
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Date: Mon, 3 Jan 94 09:56:52 -0500
From: Alex Brown <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: PINE built for XENIX?
Cc: [email protected]

Hello --

I'm trying to provide a small school with a simple mail+news installation;
the system available is 80386 Xenix 2.3.2. I have an incomplete PICO port
working, but there seem to be some more fundamental problems with PINE.
As I'm doing this as a volunteer, I don't have much time to put into solving
them. I'd appreciate any contact information regarding ports of PINE to
Xenix, SCO UNIX, 386/ix, or any other 386 System V environment.

I'd appreciate reply by mail -- I'm not a subscriber to this list.
Please reply to the address below, not the origination address of this
note. Thanks!

Alex Brown
[email protected]

> Date: Mon, 3 Jan 1994 01:36:05 -0500 (EST)
> From: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: PINE built for XENIX?
> To: Alex Brown <[email protected]>
> Cc: [email protected], [email protected]
> In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
> Message-Id: <[email protected]>
> References: <[email protected]>
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> Status: R

> Hello Alex,
> I'm not so directly involved with Pine anymore. I think some folks
> have made attempts, but no one has really got it running. You might try
> posting to [email protected] and see if you get any help there.

> Laurence Lundblade
> [email protected] 703-552-2537
> Virginia Tech -- Blacksburg, Virginia

> On Fri, 29 Oct 1993, Alex Brown wrote:

> > Date: Fri, 29 Oct 93 16:28:32 -0400
> > From: Alex Brown <[email protected]>
> > To: [email protected], [email protected]
> > Cc: [email protected]
> > Subject: PINE built for XENIX?
> >
> > Has there been any word of a XENIX port of PINE/PICO?
> > I'd appreciate any contact information if so.
> >
> > Thanks --
> >
> > Alexander S. Brown [email protected]
> > IEEE Society for Social Implications of Technology
> > PO Box 341, Hopkinton MA 01748 (508) 435-4765
> >

From [email protected] Mon Jan 3 09:31:09 1994
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Date: Mon, 3 Jan 1994 09:13:47 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Is there's pine on acfcluster? (fwd)
To: Yigal Rechtman <[email protected]>
Cc: pinelist <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Yes. There are unsubstantiated rumors of a project somewhere to port
Pine to VMS, but it was only a third-hand report...

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Wed, 22 Dec 1993, Yigal Rechtman wrote:

>
> Dear Pine Gurus: Is the info below correct?
>
>
> >>Pine exists only for Unix and DOS. There has been no indication that the
> >>Pine folks (at the University of Washington) plan to port it to VMS.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Yigal
> [email protected]
>

From [email protected] Mon Jan 3 10:43:00 1994
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Date: Mon, 3 Jan 1994 10:33:47 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: unparseable date in PINE 3.89
To: "Carolynn Seeley ( Spring )" <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.88.9312230944.A27102-0100000@offsv1>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Can you track down the specific message(s) that are causing the problem?

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Thu, 23 Dec 1993, Carolynn Seeley ( Spring ) wrote:

>
> I have completed the upgrades to PINE 3.88 from 3.07 on a SUN; to 3.88
> from 3.05 on a Solaris; and to 3.89 from 3.07 on an SGI.
>
> A few of my people have been reporting a problem with PINE 3.89 on the
> SGI. When they start their PINE session the Main menu comes up with the
> message 'Opening INBOX' and then [after a beep] the message 'Unparseable
> date' appears in the command line. PINE seems to open everything and run
> fine and the error message disappears after a few screen changes.
>
> Any ideas? Has anyone else run across this?
>
> Thanks for your help, and Happy Holidays to you all.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Carolynn Seeley (Spring) email: [email protected]
> Consultant, Desktop Support [email protected]
> Computing and Information Services
> McMaster University, JHE-122
> (905) 525-9140 x27090
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

From [email protected] Mon Jan 3 16:52:05 1994
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Date: Tue, 4 Jan 1994 04:49:19 +0300 (EETDST)
From: Ian Leiman <[email protected]>
Subject: Motif GUI for pine
To: Pine Info <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I have made great progress in building an OSF/Motif-based Graphical User
Interface for pine. I can already browse the folder index, select and
manipulate folders and collections, and view messages. Compose,
addressbook, configuration and help screens still need to be implemented.
Plus a lot of polishing.

Basically what I have done, is that I've thrown out all the code that
does I/O onto screen (calls to ttyin.c and ttyout.c). I have built
respective Motif screens with an interface builder, rewritten the code
that builds and maintains lists etc on tty-screen, to fill instead
Motif list and text widgets. User interaction now comes through callbacks
from Motif widgets (Menus, buttons and lists) for which I have to write
callback functions to execute pine functions.

The GUI interface code will be plain automatically generated K&R C, which
should compile on any Unix machine, which has X11R5 and Motif 1.2 libraries
installed. The underlying remaining pine code will remain essentially
unchainged, so that should compile on the same Unix platforms as 3.89 did.
A lot of original pine code can be thrown away since Motif widgets handle
most screen operations by themselves (such as scrolling lists and texts),
and pico will no longer be needed at all.

This is what it will look like:
- The main window will pop-up first, it contains the folder index list,
which looks pretty much the same what the L-command in pine shows. It is
scrollable and has scrollbars, a popup-menu etc.
Above the list is a status bar, exactly like in pine.
Above status bar is a menu bar, containing pulldown menus, from which
most Pine functions can be executed.
Below the folder index list is a pane of push buttons, which allows
convinient execution of the most common functions.
Below that is a scrollable text window, onto which all messages to user are
printed.

- A separate window is provided for viewing messages. This allows concurrent
viewing of the folder index and messages. Messages are shown in a scrollable
text widget. This window also has a menu bar and push buttons.

- Yet another window is provided for composing messages. The editor is very
simple typical Motif text widget application. it does however provide
pull-down menus and pop-up dialogs etc. Another more powerfull editor can
be used instead, like in pine.

- Addressbook is shown in yet another dialog window, which has one list for
individual addresses, one for mailing lists and a third to show contents
of mailing list items. Plus text fields for editing and adding entries
and command buttons and menus.

- Collections and folders are selected also with a custom dialog having
scrollable lists and nescessary buttons etc.

- Options and user preferences can be set from a separate window. This
will eliminate the need to edit .pinerc by hand. .signature can be
edited too. .forward and vacation can be turned on/off from menus.

- Of course there will be also a help text viewer (and help button on each
window and dialog), with a help item index,
possibly with mouse pointable context sensitive help and maybe even
hypertext links.

- Attachement viewers for GIF's, Postscript etc. can be integrated more
smoothly now.

As this is just a hobby for me, it will take probably until March before
I get a distributable version of the package together. It will run on
HP9000/73x's (HP-UX 9.01) for sure, maybe even on IBM RS/6000's (AIX 3.2).
As the unix system-call dependencies are pretty well isolated into one
module in pine already (os-???.c), there will probably be very few problems
in porting the code to any reasonable Unix-platform (with Motif).
Needeless to say, this won't work on DOS. As a matter of fact, I've
thrown that code out as it makes reading very difficult.

--
Ian Leiman, M.Sc. phone +358 0 5104 4453, fax +358 0 5104 4764
Development Engineer mail: TL2E, P.O. BOX 12, FIN-02611 Espoo, Finland
Data Communications internet: [email protected]
Transmission Systems x400: C=FI,A=Elisa,or A=Mailnet,P=Nokia Telecom,
NOKIA Telecommunications SUR=LEIMAN,GIV=IAN,(UNIT=DCO)

From [email protected] Tue Jan 4 01:20:15 1994
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Date: Tue, 4 Jan 1994 09:53:28 +0200 (METDST)
From: Rainer Zimmermann <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: unparseable date in PINE 3.89
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I've had exactly the same problem on HP-UX after upgrading to PINE 3.88 from
3.07. The message went away after the users saved/deleted their old mail
messages from INBOX. It seems there is a different date field handling in
PINE >= 3.87.
Hope this might help.

Greetings,
-Rainer.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rainer Zimmermann, Berufsakademie Mannheim, Germany
[email protected]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Thu, 23 Dec 1993, Carolynn Seeley ( Spring ) wrote:

>
> I have completed the upgrades to PINE 3.88 from 3.07 on a SUN; to 3.88
> from 3.05 on a Solaris; and to 3.89 from 3.07 on an SGI.
>
> A few of my people have been reporting a problem with PINE 3.89 on the
> SGI. When they start their PINE session the Main menu comes up with the
> message 'Opening INBOX' and then [after a beep] the message 'Unparseable
> date' appears in the command line. PINE seems to open everything and run
> fine and the error message disappears after a few screen changes.
>
> Any ideas? Has anyone else run across this?
>
> Thanks for your help, and Happy Holidays to you all.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Carolynn Seeley (Spring) email: [email protected]
> Consultant, Desktop Support [email protected]
> Computing and Information Services
> McMaster University, JHE-122
> (905) 525-9140 x27090
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

From [email protected] Tue Jan 4 02:04:54 1994
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X-Nupop-Charset: Swedish
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 1994 10:31:06 +0100 (MET)
From: "Christer Lindh" <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: IMAP/POP client for Windows?

PINE is great for sure but --- our users demand Windows program.
So can anyone of you recommend a free or shareware email program
for Windows that uses IMAP, POP and or SMTP? Preferably MIME compliant
but they can live without that.

** Please reply directly to me via email as it's a little outside the
subject for this mailing list

(While waiting for a PINE that can be used to read/reply mail off-line
I have to use this NuPOP program which is pretty good but doesn't do
MIME at all which is quite unfortunate as the users at work that send
me mail uses PINE now. And as we speak ISO 8859-1 they use a lot of
8bit chars which are then quoted...)
-----------------------------------------------------------
:: [email protected] :: Remote from the field via nuPop ::
:: Christer Lindh :: (Currently in H{lsingland) ::
-----------------------------------------------------------

From [email protected] Tue Jan 4 09:47:53 1994
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id <[email protected]>; Tue, 4 Jan 1994 16:51:37 +0000
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 1994 16:51:51 +0000 (GMT)
From: Mike Roch <[email protected]>
Subject: Suggested enhancement
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <Pine.3.88.9401041651.A6459-0100000@suma3>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Length: 362

When saving messages, I'd find it helpful if the suggested folder
for saves was the last one saved to - anyone agrY?

Mike

==============================================================================
Mike Roch, Computer Services Centre, Tel: 0734 318430
The University, Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AF Fax: 0734 753094

From [email protected] Tue Jan 4 10:15:50 1994
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Date: Tue, 4 Jan 1994 09:57:14 -0800 (PST)
From: "J. Scott Williams" <[email protected]>
Reply-To: "J. Scott Williams" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: IMAP/POP client for Windows?
To: Christer Lindh <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Christer,

I have gotten PC-Pine to run as a DOS application from within MS-Windows
using a PIF file that gives PC-Pine some background CPU cycles for IMAP
on 386 and 486 CPUs. It involves running a package called PKTMUX after
the Ethernet packet driver is started and before MS-Windows is started.

If PC-Pine is positioned in a window "just right" you can see the status
line highlighted when new mail arrives.

If you want further details. Please let me know.

-jscott-
--------
|J. Scott Williams, MH 354 Ph: (206) 650-2868 FAX: (206) 650-2816 |
|Academic Tech. User Services Internet: [email protected] |
|Western Washington Univ. "Internet--Talking across the electronic|
|Bellingham, WA 98225-9094 back fence of the world."-JSW|

On 4 Jan 1994, Christer Lindh wrote:

> PINE is great for sure but --- our users demand Windows program.
> So can anyone of you recommend a free or shareware email program
> for Windows that uses IMAP, POP and or SMTP? Preferably MIME compliant
> but they can live without that.
>
> ** Please reply directly to me via email as it's a little outside the
> subject for this mailing list
>
<stuff deleted>

> -----------------------------------------------------------
> :: [email protected] :: Remote from the field via nuPop ::
> :: Christer Lindh :: (Currently in H{lsingland) ::
> -----------------------------------------------------------

From [email protected] Tue Jan 4 13:56:05 1994
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Date: Tue, 4 Jan 1994 13:41:24 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Suggested enhancement
To: Mike Roch <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.88.9401041651.A6459-0100000@suma3>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Mike,

Just set "saved-msg-name-rule=last-folder-used" in your .pinerc file...

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Tue, 4 Jan 1994, Mike Roch wrote:

> When saving messages, I'd find it helpful if the suggested folder
> for saves was the last one saved to - anyone agrY?
>
> Mike
>
> ==============================================================================
> Mike Roch, Computer Services Centre, Tel: 0734 318430
> The University, Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AF Fax: 0734 753094
>

From [email protected] Tue Jan 4 20:08:42 1994
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Date: Tue, 4 Jan 1994 22:59:25 -0500 (EST)
From: Yigal Rechtman <[email protected]>
Subject: Pine on VMS (was: Re: Is there's pine on acfcluster? (fwd)
To: pinelist <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

For your Information: This msg came from my sys manager. Please forward and
questions/comments/whatever to him. -Yigal

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 94 23:22:37 -0500
From: tihor <[email protected]>
To: Yigal Rechtman <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Is there's pine on acfcluster? (fwd)

Out Email transport provider is working to port PINE to VMS but it is not
yet ready enough for an estimated date to start testing yet.

From [email protected] Tue Jan 4 21:57:53 1994
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Date: Tue, 4 Jan 1994 21:49:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: IMAP/POP client for Windows?
To: Christer Lindh <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

> PINE is great for sure but --- our users demand Windows program.
> So can anyone of you recommend a free or shareware email program
> for Windows that uses IMAP, POP and or SMTP? Preferably MIME compliant
> but they can live without that.

Christer,
I'm aware of two MS Windows IMAP clients that support MIME, both of them
commercial:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Client MIME? Source/Vendor Status
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

ECSMail 2.2 Yes ISA Corp. Released <[email protected]>
PC-MM Yes ICL ProSystems Released <[email protected]>

The second one (from Sweden) I just learned about today...

-teg

p.s. I CC'd the list because I think your question is actually on the
minds of many friends of Pine... For a more complete listing of
IMAP-capable mailers, see the file mail/imap.software on
ftp.cac.washington.edu, from which the above info is taken.

From [email protected] Wed Jan 5 06:04:18 1994
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Date: Wed, 5 Jan 1994 08:48:02 -0500 (EST)
From: Jamie Wyatt <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: IMAP/POP client for Windows?
To: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Cc: Christer Lindh <[email protected]>, [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Eudora for the PC is a windows application and works just like the Mac
version. It supports both pop and mime and is free. You can find Eudora
at

ftp.qualcomm.com

Jamie

------------------------------------------------------
Jamie Wyatt
Network and Systems Administrator
Dept. of Computer Science, Brock University
St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada, L2S 3A1
[email protected]

On Tue, 4 Jan 1994, Terry Gray wrote:

>
> > PINE is great for sure but --- our users demand Windows program.
> > So can anyone of you recommend a free or shareware email program
> > for Windows that uses IMAP, POP and or SMTP? Preferably MIME compliant
> > but they can live without that.
>
> Christer,
> I'm aware of two MS Windows IMAP clients that support MIME, both of them
> commercial:
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Client MIME? Source/Vendor Status
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ECSMail 2.2 Yes ISA Corp. Released <[email protected]>
> PC-MM Yes ICL ProSystems Released <[email protected]>
>
> The second one (from Sweden) I just learned about today...
>
> -teg
>
> p.s. I CC'd the list because I think your question is actually on the
> minds of many friends of Pine... For a more complete listing of
> IMAP-capable mailers, see the file mail/imap.software on
> ftp.cac.washington.edu, from which the above info is taken.
>

From [email protected] Wed Jan 5 16:30:06 1994
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6 Jan 94 0:01 GMT
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Date: Wed, 5 Jan 1994 17:31:46 +0000 (WET)
From: Martin Beenham <[email protected]>
Subject: PC-PINE sans IMAP?
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I have UNIX PINE compiled and installed on a variety of machine flavours
here and PC-PINE has been very successful.

For consistency's sake I would like to install PC-PINE on a windows PC
running a SLIP dialup to a NON-IMAP mail feeder.

Has anybody modified PC-PINE to pick up mail off a local .txt mailbox
and send mail to the normal .txt and .wrk files?

Thanks,
Martin
--
Martin G. Beenham, IT Manager (martin@compass) |Tel +44 635 550660
Compass Computer Group, Newbury, Berks, UK RG14 5PX |Fax +44 635 521268
Internet: [email protected] (@work)
[email protected] (@home)

From [email protected] Thu Jan 6 06:50:45 1994
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Date: Thu, 6 Jan 1994 09:33:20 -0500 (EST)
From: "Lisa M. Frye" <[email protected]>
Subject: Pine on PTX
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Is anyone running pine on the PTX operating system (or even system V
release 3)? I am going to upgrade from DYNIX to PTX and was wondering if
anyone has compile pine on PTX? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in
advance for your time.

Lisa Frye 683-4474
Network Software Specialist LMS Annex Room 105
Kutztown University [email protected]
Kutztown, PA. 19530

"You can bring a person to the university, but you can't make him think."

From [email protected] Thu Jan 6 10:19:14 1994
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Date: Thu, 6 Jan 1994 10:04:29 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine on PTX
To: "Lisa M. Frye" <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Lisa,

The "ptx" port of Pine runs fine on most Dynix/ptx systems. The only
ones that have much trouble are running old versions of PTX, which I
presume you will not be doing...

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Thu, 6 Jan 1994, Lisa M. Frye wrote:

>
> Is anyone running pine on the PTX operating system (or even system V
> release 3)? I am going to upgrade from DYNIX to PTX and was wondering if
> anyone has compile pine on PTX? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in
> advance for your time.
>
>
>
> Lisa Frye 683-4474
> Network Software Specialist LMS Annex Room 105
> Kutztown University [email protected]
> Kutztown, PA. 19530
>
> "You can bring a person to the university, but you can't make him think."
>
>

From [email protected] Thu Jan 6 11:36:24 1994
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Date: Thu, 6 Jan 1994 11:29:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Jason R. Thorpe" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine on PTX
To: "Lisa M. Frye" <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Thu, 6 Jan 1994, Lisa M. Frye wrote:

>
> Is anyone running pine on the PTX operating system (or even system V
> release 3)? I am going to upgrade from DYNIX to PTX and was wondering if
> anyone has compile pine on PTX? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in
> advance for your time.

Yup...We have 2 Sequent S81's running Dynix/PTX 2.0.3...Pine is the
easiest app to compile on a Sequent I've seen yet...The Pine folks have
done a wonderful job implementing the PTX platform...Way to go, guys!

>
>
>
> Lisa Frye 683-4474
> Network Software Specialist LMS Annex Room 105
> Kutztown University [email protected]
> Kutztown, PA. 19530
>
> "You can bring a person to the university, but you can't make him think."
>
>
>

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason R. Thorpe [email protected] 737-9533
OSU CS Support CSWest Room 12 737-2552
'These are my opinions and not necessarily those of my employer.'

From [email protected] Thu Jan 6 11:48:31 1994
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id <[email protected]>; Thu, 6 Jan 94 11:34 PST
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 1994 11:34:33 -0700(PDT)
From: "J.J.Bailey" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine on PTX
To: "Lisa M. Frye" <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9401061150.A8121-0100000@jagware>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I'm running pine on Interactive 4.0 (SunSoft), which is System V Release
3.2. The patches and additional files required for this port have not yet
been added to the distribution.

J.J.Bailey
Consultant
[email protected]

On Thu, 6 Jan 1994, Lisa M. Frye wrote:

>
> Is anyone running pine on the PTX operating system (or even system V
> release 3)? I am going to upgrade from DYNIX to PTX and was wondering if
> anyone has compile pine on PTX? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in
> advance for your time.
>
>
>
> Lisa Frye 683-4474
> Network Software Specialist LMS Annex Room 105
> Kutztown University [email protected]
> Kutztown, PA. 19530
>
> "You can bring a person to the university, but you can't make him think."
>
>
>

From [email protected] Thu Jan 6 13:53:44 1994
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Date: Thu, 6 Jan 94 16:38:14 EST
From: [email protected] (Tom F. Huehn)
Message-Id: <9401062138.AA19488@goliath>
To: [email protected]
Subject: wanting to run PINE on a Sun

Greetings

I would like to PINE on our Sun 4.1.1.

Could you please recommend an ftp cite.

Is PINE version 3.05 the most current?

Thanks

Tom Huehn
Technical Services Librarian
Palm Beach Atlantic College
West Palm Beach, FL 33416

tel. (407) 835-4398
email: [email protected]

************************************************************************

From [email protected] Thu Jan 6 17:48:52 1994
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Date: Thu, 6 Jan 1994 17:41:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Jason R. Thorpe" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: wanting to run PINE on a Sun
To: "Tom F. Huehn" <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <9401062138.AA19488@goliath>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Thu, 6 Jan 1994, Tom F. Huehn wrote:

> Greetings
>
> I would like to PINE on our Sun 4.1.1.
>
> Could you please recommend an ftp cite.

ftp.cac.washington.edu:/pine

>
> Is PINE version 3.05 the most current?

Ugh...Negatory...3.89

>
> Thanks
>
> Tom Huehn
> Technical Services Librarian
> Palm Beach Atlantic College
> West Palm Beach, FL 33416
>
> tel. (407) 835-4398
> email: [email protected]
>
> ************************************************************************
>

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason R. Thorpe [email protected] 737-9533
OSU CS Support CSWest Room 12 737-2552
'These are my opinions and not necessarily those of my employer.'

From [email protected] Thu Jan 6 19:35:22 1994
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Date: Thu, 6 Jan 1994 22:25:08 -0500 (EST)
From: Yigal Rechtman <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: International Internet Association (fwd)
To: pinelist <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 1994 19:17:37 -0500
From: Edward Wiley <[email protected]>
To: Multiple recipients of list ROOTS-L <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: International Internet Association

This is such a blatent attempt at fraud, that we all should copy it and
spread it all over the Internet.

E. B. (Bud) Wiley | [email protected] |
7204 Andrew Jackson | [email protected] |
Palatka, FL 32177 | [email protected] |

On Wed, 5 Jan 1994, Bruce Bumbalough wrote:

> Hello Rooters!
>
> The discussion in recent days on Internet Access prompts an
> upload of this warning about the International Internet
> Association. I know no more than the contents of the message.
>
> Bruce Bumbalough
> e-mail: [email protected]
>
>
> Forwarded by Gleason Sackman - InterNIC net-happenings moderator
> ()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()
>
> ---------- Text of forwarded message ----------
> Date: Tue, 4 Jan 1994 16:18:44 -0500
> From: "Scott A. Ward 703-614-4719" <[email protected]>
> To: Multiple recipients of list COMMUNET <[email protected]>
> Subject: Warning: International Internet Association
>
> A company calling itself the International Internet Association, and billing
> itself as "the largest non-profit provider of free Internet access in the
> world" has started advertizing in the Washington, D.C. area, and offering free
> Internet accounts to individuals who will FAX them, among other things, a
> credit card number. As an active member of the Member Council of the National
> Capital Area Public Access Network (CapAccess), I wanted to find more about
> this organization that supposedly has offices NOT THREE BLOCKS FROM CAPACCESS.
> Here's the result of my search for the IIA.
>
> 1. Their address, listed as "Suite 852 - 202 Pennsylvania Ave, N.W. Washington
> D.C. 20006", is actually a post office box at Mailboxes, Etc.
>
> 2. The company lists no incorporation, trademark or service-mark licenses.
>
> 3. They claim your E-mail address would be <userid>@iia.org. However:
> a. No iia.org is listed in the hq.af.mil hosts table
> b. No iia.org is listed in the acq.osd.mil hosts table
> c. No iia.org is listed is the INTERNIC 'whois' database
> d. No iia.org is listed using the INTERNIC 'netfind' Internet lookup
> In other words, IIA.ORG does NOT, at this time, exist.
>
> 4. Although they apologize profusely in the application, they state that
> "Without receiving a credit card number, the IIA _cannot_ process an
> account."
>
> 5. Although I have left a message on their voice-mail system, I have received
> no response from them. (they also apologize in the voice mail that,
> due to demand, they are operating at a 3-week backlog for applications.)
>
> I cannot judge an organization in advance. However, I do think it highly
> suspicious that, to use their propaganda, "The International Internet
> Association is able to make this service available through generous private
> donations, and the extraordinary dedication of its membership." I can say that
> I am not convinced this organization exists, and highly discourage any Internet
> user from sending information until you make certain that the IIA is real.
>
> Scott Ward (703) 614-4719
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> Vice-Chair, Public Relations Volunteer Service Manager (VSM)
> National Capital Area Public CapAccess Community Center
> Access Network (CapAccess) [email protected]
> [email protected] "go community"

From [email protected] Fri Jan 7 09:42:58 1994
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Date: Fri, 7 Jan 1994 09:32:51 -0800 (GMT-0800)
From: VampLestat <[email protected]>
Subject: Alias limit and re-syncing the folder
To: Pine Info List <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

We are moving toward getting our users to use the Pine mail program
instead of Elm, but a few people recall a couple problems with Pine in
the past, and I wonder if these problems have since been resolved.

Is there a limit to the number of addresses you can place in a group
alias?

Is there a way to tell pine to go out and check if there is new mail in
the current folder you are working with?

When I am attempting to debug something, and I know I have new mail
waiting, I'd like to be able to tell it to check for new mail right now.

_O_ Ryan L. Watkins <[email protected]> VampLestat at FajitaDiku (R.I.P.)
| Academic Computing Services - California State University Long Beach
|

From [email protected] Fri Jan 7 10:50:37 1994
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Date: Fri, 7 Jan 1994 12:49:28 -0600 (CST)
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Alias limit and re-syncing the folder
To: VampLestat <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Info List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Fri, 7 Jan 1994, VampLestat wrote:

> Is there a limit to the number of addresses you can place in a group
> alias?

None that I am aware of, but I'm not sure.

> Is there a way to tell pine to go out and check if there is new mail in
> the current folder you are working with?
>
> When I am attempting to debug something, and I know I have new mail
> waiting, I'd like to be able to tell it to check for new mail right now.

Pressing 'N' five times or so when at the last message in that folder
will cause pine to then check that folder for new mail. You can be
either at the INDEX or actually reading the last message in the folder.

____ Robert A. Hayden <=> [email protected]
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> To flame me, log on to ICBMnet and
\/ Finger for PGP 2.3a Public Key <=> target 44 09' 49" N x 93 59' 57" W
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 1.0.1) GAT d- -p+(---) c++(++++) l++ u++ e+/* m++(*)@ s-/++
n-(---) h+(*) f+ g+ w++ t++ r++ y+(*)

From [email protected] Fri Jan 7 11:23:11 1994
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Date: Fri, 7 Jan 1994 11:08:44 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Alias limit and re-syncing the folder
To: VampLestat <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Info List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Fri, 7 Jan 1994, VampLestat wrote:

>
> We are moving toward getting our users to use the Pine mail program
> instead of Elm, but a few people recall a couple problems with Pine in
> the past, and I wonder if these problems have since been resolved.
>
> Is there a limit to the number of addresses you can place in a group
> alias?
>
> Is there a way to tell pine to go out and check if there is new mail in
> the current folder you are working with?
>
> When I am attempting to debug something, and I know I have new mail
> waiting, I'd like to be able to tell it to check for new mail right now.
>
>
> _O_ Ryan L. Watkins <[email protected]> VampLestat at FajitaDiku (R.I.P.)
> | Academic Computing Services - California State University Long Beach
> |

From [email protected] Fri Jan 7 11:24:14 1994
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Date: Fri, 7 Jan 1994 11:13:54 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Alias limit and re-syncing the folder
To: VampLestat <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Info List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

No, there is no design limit to the number of addresses in a distribution
list. Older versions of Pine did have bugs or triggered bugs in sendmail to
effectively limit the size, but they have all been fixed in Pine 3.89, as far
as we know.

There are two ways to force a mail check. 1) go to the bottom of the
index and press 'N' a few times. 2) Refresh the screen with '^L'.

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Fri, 7 Jan 1994, VampLestat wrote:

>
> We are moving toward getting our users to use the Pine mail program
> instead of Elm, but a few people recall a couple problems with Pine in
> the past, and I wonder if these problems have since been resolved.
>
> Is there a limit to the number of addresses you can place in a group
> alias?
>
> Is there a way to tell pine to go out and check if there is new mail in
> the current folder you are working with?
>
> When I am attempting to debug something, and I know I have new mail
> waiting, I'd like to be able to tell it to check for new mail right now.
>
>
> _O_ Ryan L. Watkins <[email protected]> VampLestat at FajitaDiku (R.I.P.)
> | Academic Computing Services - California State University Long Beach
> |

From [email protected] Sat Jan 8 16:39:40 1994
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Date: Sat, 8 Jan 1994 16:26:54 -0800 (PST)
From: VampLestat <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Alias limit and re-syncing the folder
To: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Info List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

> There are two ways to force a mail check. 1) go to the bottom of the
> index and press 'N' a few times. 2) Refresh the screen with '^L'.

I've tried this on Pine v3.88 and while the hitting the 'N' key a few
times seems to work, when I refresh the screen with '^L' it doesnt seem
to do a mail check, I did this from the index screen.

_O_ Ryan L. Watkins <[email protected]> VampLestat at FajitaDiku (R.I.P.)
| Academic Computing Services - California State University Long Beach
| pgp key available via 'finger [email protected]' or key server
finger me for my current Depeche Mode Collection For Sale list

From [email protected] Sat Jan 8 16:58:13 1994
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Date: Sat, 8 Jan 1994 16:50:37 -0800 (PST)
From: VampLestat <[email protected]>
Subject: PGP and Pine
To: Pine Info List <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I used to have scripts in ELM that I used to automatically sign or verfy
mail with PGP. Is there any way to accomplish this with Pine? Or is
anyone working on including any form of encyption/digital signatures with
Pine?

_O_ Ryan L. Watkins <[email protected]> VampLestat at FajitaDiku (R.I.P.)
| Academic Computing Services - California State University Long Beach
| pgp key available via 'finger [email protected]' or key server
finger me for my current Depeche Mode Collection For Sale list

From [email protected] Sat Jan 8 18:10:29 1994
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Date: Sat, 8 Jan 1994 20:07:16 -0600 (CST)
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <[email protected]>
Reply-To: "Robert A. Hayden" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: PGP and Pine
To: VampLestat <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Info List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

On Sat, 8 Jan 1994, VampLestat wrote:

>
> I used to have scripts in ELM that I used to automatically sign or verfy
> mail with PGP. Is there any way to accomplish this with Pine? Or is
> anyone working on including any form of encyption/digital signatures with
> Pine?

It is pretty simple to set up pine to sign a message.

The first step is to write a simple script. I call this script 'picopgp'

---> Begin
#!/bin/sh

pico -z -t $1
pgp -sat $1
mv $1.asc $1
---> End

Next, set your alternate editor to this script file.

Then, whenever you invoke your alternate editor, it will launch pico
again, but when you finish, it will sign your mailing.

------

To decrypt stuff, you will have to wait for the pipe command to be
implemented (unless it was in 3.89, we have 3.88). To encrypt on the
fly, I'm afraid that I don't know of a way.

Hope this helps.

____ Robert A. Hayden <=> [email protected]
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> To flame me, log on to ICBMnet and
\/ Finger for PGP 2.3a Public Key <=> target 44 09' 49" N x 93 59' 57" W
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 1.0.1) GAT d- -p+(---) c++(++++) l++ u++ e+/* m++(*)@ s-/++
n-(---) h+(*) f+ g+ w++ t++ r++ y+(*)

From [email protected] Sun Jan 9 16:19:25 1994
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Date: Sun, 9 Jan 1994 16:07:19 -0800 (PST)
From: VampLestat <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: PGP and Pine
To: "Robert A. Hayden" <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Info List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

> > I used to have scripts in ELM that I used to automatically sign or verfy
> > mail with PGP. Is there any way to accomplish this with Pine? Or is
> > anyone working on including any form of encyption/digital signatures with
> > Pine?
>
[snip snip]
> To decrypt stuff, you will have to wait for the pipe command to be
> implemented (unless it was in 3.89, we have 3.88). To encrypt on the
> fly, I'm afraid that I don't know of a way.

Has anyone attempted to get any other forms of encryption working with
Pine, like RIPEM? I think the security of one's mail is becoming
increasingly important as the net grows, and being able to sign my
messages is nice, but I think we need to find a way to encrypt/decrypt on
the fly.

_O_ Ryan L. Watkins <[email protected]> VampLestat at FajitaDiku (R.I.P.)
| Academic Computing Services - California State University Long Beach
| pgp key available via 'finger [email protected]' or key server
finger me for my current Depeche Mode Collection For Sale list

From [email protected] Sun Jan 9 16:21:12 1994
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Date: Sun, 9 Jan 1994 18:14:48 -0600 (CST)
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: PGP and Pine
To: Pine Info <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Sun, 9 Jan 1994, VampLestat wrote:

> Has anyone attempted to get any other forms of encryption working with
> Pine, like RIPEM? I think the security of one's mail is becoming
> increasingly important as the net grows, and being able to sign my
> messages is nice, but I think we need to find a way to encrypt/decrypt on
> the fly.

I agree, I think it is important. But there are some very serious legal
issues that surround cryptography. Not only are there export controls,
but PGP has some legal problems with the RSA patent. There's also the
problem of determining which crytographic method will become the standard
(I like PGP, myself).

Hope the signing script helps.

____ Robert A. Hayden <=> [email protected]
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> To flame me, log on to ICBMnet and
\/ Finger for PGP 2.3a Public Key <=> target 44 09' 49" N x 93 59' 57" W
- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 1.0.1) GAT d- -p+(---) c++(++++) l++ u++ e+/* m++(*)@ s-/++
n-(---) h+(*) f+ g+ w++ t++ r++ y+(*)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.3a

iQCVAgUBLTCd6p3BsrEqkf9NAQG0QAP/fiqy/jG5eMbx9wnbGzUSMk583ckiV5X+
x1dk1AFzWZZr2OkuUP6xSCHDB8lZf6gmXFc6o5ISDD7uywGvCEaXXfgFnSPtOzqN
i6fu+klLFg95MdL5oR8epL5rn4UBgI/Qk0EwNMPmp5FlKMJ6/uGPk0uiPv80EeyM
Qq5OANA5sj8=
=rbqT
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From [email protected] Sun Jan 9 16:45:49 1994
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Date: Sun, 9 Jan 1994 19:37:24 -0500 (EST)
From: Scott McWilliams <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Scott McWilliams <[email protected]>
Subject: Update Disable ?
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9401091902.A5262-0100000@mercury>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

We're planning on rolling out the 3.89 Pine in February to our hospital
users, but are leery of the network traffic as people experiment with the
Update option from the Setup menu. Is there any way to disable this?

Thanks.

------------------ - - - - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
| Scott A. McWilliams Internet: [email protected] |
| Sysadmin, Postmaster |
| |
| Snail: Beth Israel Hospital |
| Network Services |
| Mail Stop BL-320 Vox: +1 617.735.5559 |
| 330 Brookline Avenue Facs: +1 617.735.3966 |
| Boston, Mass. 02215 |
-------------------- - -Deinimid iarracht ni/os fearr!- - ------------------

From [email protected] Sun Jan 9 17:20:22 1994
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Date: Sun, 9 Jan 1994 17:07:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Alias limit and re-syncing the folder
To: VampLestat <[email protected]>
Cc: David L Miller <[email protected]>,
Pine Info List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Ryan,
The ^L new mail check was added in 3.89.

-teg

On Sat, 8 Jan 1994, VampLestat wrote:

> > There are two ways to force a mail check. 1) go to the bottom of the
> > index and press 'N' a few times. 2) Refresh the screen with '^L'.
>
> I've tried this on Pine v3.88 and while the hitting the 'N' key a few
> times seems to work, when I refresh the screen with '^L' it doesnt seem
> to do a mail check, I did this from the index screen.
>
> _O_ Ryan L. Watkins <[email protected]> VampLestat at FajitaDiku (R.I.P.)
> | Academic Computing Services - California State University Long Beach
> | pgp key available via 'finger [email protected]' or key server
> finger me for my current Depeche Mode Collection For Sale list
>
>
>

From [email protected] Sun Jan 9 17:22:41 1994
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Date: Sun, 9 Jan 1994 17:12:45 -0800 (PST)
From: VampLestat <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Alias limit and re-syncing the folder
To: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Info List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Sun, 9 Jan 1994, Terry Gray wrote:

> The ^L new mail check was added in 3.89.

Argh. I got Pine 3.88 all set up an then I find that 3.89 has the one
feature my boss requested. :)

Are there any other feature changes from 3.88 to 3.89, and when is the
next version due out? I might just wait and set up the next version
instead.

_O_ Ryan L. Watkins <[email protected]> VampLestat at FajitaDiku (R.I.P.)
| Academic Computing Services - California State University Long Beach
| pgp key available via 'finger [email protected]' or key server
finger me for my current Depeche Mode Collection For Sale list

From [email protected] Sun Jan 9 17:39:20 1994
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Date: Sun, 9 Jan 1994 17:32:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Alias limit and re-syncing the folder
To: VampLestat <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Info List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

> Are there any other feature changes from 3.88 to 3.89,

No, everthing else was a bug fix. (I'll append a list of the main ones
from the release notes.)

> and when is the next version due out? I might just wait and set up the
> next version instead.

Probably not before late March...

-teg

Pine 3.89 December 7, 1993

User-visible changes...
- ^L side effect is new mail check
Serious bug fixes...
- /tmp file for sendmail has mode based on default umask <Matt Freedman>
- Pine loops to make infinitely long .pine-debug <Mike Kuniavsky>
- Crash: "Bad msgno in mailfetchstructure" <Ian Lumb> <Mike Kuniavsky>
- Crash: "Bad msgno in mailelt" <Ian Lumb> <TJ Olny>
- INBOX index appears empty after Send <Mike Kuniavsky> <TJ Olny>
- PC-Pine problem with folder name after "Goto" <Landy, Berlinger, Pommert>
- Postpone: if canceled, attachment size displayed zero length <Dave King>
- PC-Pine: WATTCP BOOTP ignores gateway, nameservers
- Export: Reports success even after failed write <David Wall> ----

From [email protected] Sun Jan 9 18:24:32 1994
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Date: Sun, 9 Jan 1994 21:14:43 -0500 (EST)
From: "Michael A. Crowley" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Update Disable ?
To: Scott McWilliams <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9401091902.A5262-0100000@mercury>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

It will probably generate less traffic than my responding
to this message. I'd suggest not to worry about it.

Mike

On Sun, 9 Jan 1994, Scott McWilliams wrote:

>
> We're planning on rolling out the 3.89 Pine in February to our hospital
> users, but are leery of the network traffic as people experiment with the
> Update option from the Setup menu. Is there any way to disable this?
>
> Thanks.
>
> ------------------ - - - - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
> | Scott A. McWilliams Internet: [email protected] |
> | Sysadmin, Postmaster |
> | |
> | Snail: Beth Israel Hospital |
> | Network Services |
> | Mail Stop BL-320 Vox: +1 617.735.5559 |
> | 330 Brookline Avenue Facs: +1 617.735.3966 |
> | Boston, Mass. 02215 |
> -------------------- - -Deinimid iarracht ni/os fearr!- - ------------------
>
>
>

From [email protected] Sun Jan 9 23:25:35 1994
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Message-Id: <[email protected]>
To: Scott McWilliams <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Update Disable ?
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 09 Jan 94 19:37:24 MET."
<Pine.3.89.9401091902.A5262-0100000@mercury>
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 94 08:11:19 MET
From: Jos Vos <[email protected]>

> We're planning on rolling out the 3.89 Pine in February to our hospital
> users, but are leery of the network traffic as people experiment with the
> Update option from the Setup menu. Is there any way to disable this?

I agree with you that you should be able to disable it, either
dynamically or statically (at compile-time).

For Pine 3.87 (if I'm right) I made a patch to introduce a macro
DISABLE_UPDATE. Compiling Pine with -DDISABLE_UPDATE then does
what it says: disabling the update option (and the option has
also disappeared from the menu).

If people are interested I can mail it (but remember, it is for
3.87 and it may require some porting).

--
-- Jos Vos <[email protected]> (UUCP: ...!{uunet,mcsun,sun4nl}!nlbull!jos)
-- Bull Netherlands, Professional Services, Amsterdam, The Netherlands

From [email protected] Mon Jan 10 01:12:05 1994
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To: [email protected]
Path: not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Mark Delany)
Newsgroups: apana.lists.mail.pine
Subject: Re: PGP and Pine
Date: 10 Jan 1994 19:56:29 +1100
Organization: APANA regional feed site - Melbourne, Australia.
Lines: 18
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>

In <[email protected]> [email protected] (Robert A. Hayden) writes:

>> Has anyone attempted to get any other forms of encryption working with
>> Pine, like RIPEM? I think the security of one's mail is becoming
>> increasingly important as the net grows, and being able to sign my
>> messages is nice, but I think we need to find a way to encrypt/decrypt on
>> the fly.

>I agree, I think it is important. But there are some very serious legal
>issues that surround cryptography. Not only are there export controls,

That may be true of the programs themselves, but surely not a
framework within pine that allows one to transparently run such
programs?

M.

From [email protected] Mon Jan 10 13:38:49 1994
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Date: Mon, 10 Jan 1994 16:28:48 -0500 (EST)
From: Sherry Lake <[email protected]>
Subject: FAQ Available
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Is there a FAQ available for pine?

Thanks

-----
Sherry H. Lake [email protected]
Electronic Mail Consultant
George Mason University

From [email protected] Mon Jan 10 13:39:37 1994
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Date: Mon, 10 Jan 1994 16:25:50 -0500 (EST)
From: Sherry Lake <[email protected]>
Subject: User's Guide for pine
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Is there a User's Guide for pine (other than the Pine Technical Notes)?
Have other sites created their own documentation? Any help is
appreciated.

Thanks.

-----
Sherry H. Lake [email protected]
Electronic Mail Consultant
George Mason University

From [email protected] Mon Jan 10 19:27:23 1994
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Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 12:27:12 +1100 (EST)
From: Charlie Brady <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: PGP and Pine
To: Mark Delany <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9401111208.F6688-0100000@sydte3>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On 10 Jan 1994, Mark Delany wrote:

> In <[email protected]> [email protected] (Robert A. Hayden) writes:
>
> >> messages is nice, but I think we need to find a way to encrypt/decrypt on
> >> the fly.
>
> >I agree, I think it is important. But there are some very serious legal
> >issues that surround cryptography. Not only are there export controls,
>
> That may be true of the programs themselves, but surely not a
> framework within pine that allows one to transparently run such
> programs?

Isn't it about time that the State Department or whoever it is recognised
the stupidity of the export controls, which are unnecessary,
and unenforceable anyway? Has there been any interest or progress in
removing that obstacle?

Charlie Brady * (W) [email protected] * (H) [email protected]
"Make it as simple as possible - | Tel: (02) 413 6838 ____Telectronics__| /\__
but no simpler" Einstein, A | Fax: (02) 413 6868 Pacing Systems \/

From [email protected] Tue Jan 11 03:51:15 1994
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Date: Tue, 11 Jan 94 12:06:44 +0100
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE
From: Klaus Zeuge <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Confused users -- moving of read messages

At my SunOS 4.1.3 site, we want to move read messages from file
/usr/spool/mail/$USER to file $HOME/mail/mailbox. To do this, the
users file .pinerc holds
read-message-folder=3Dmailbox

This works, but the messages and prompts in connection with this
confuses users. After having read a message (which was in folder
"INBOX", ie file /usr/spool/mail/$USER), and quiting Pine, the user is
asked whether to save the read messages to folder "mailbox". The user
answers "y" and the messages are copied. Next, Pine asks the user
whether the user wants to expunge the DELETED messages from folder
"INBOX".

This is what confuses the users. "What? I haven't deleted any
messages!".

Wouldn't it be better if the operation was -- instead of "save and
delete" -- presented as a "move" with an implicit delete and expunge
of the moved messages?

As an alternative, it might be better to ask the user first about the
save, then about a deletion of the saved messages and last about an
expunge of the deleted messages.

And no, setting
feature-list=3Dauto-move-read-msgs

doesn't help, as this only controls whether the user is asked about
the save of the messages to folder "mailbox", not whether the user is
asked about the expunge.

/Klaus

PS As a warning, don't try putting
read-message-folder=3Dinbox

in the .pinerc file as the folder menu treats both "inbox" and "INBOX"
as aliases for the file /usr/spool/mail/$USER -- even if the file
$HOME/mail/inbox exists. On the other hand, SAVING to folder "inbox",
copies the message to the file $HOME/mail/inbox. As you understand,
the result is a bunch of users who can't find their previous read
messages, thinking their messages are lost ...

From [email protected] Tue Jan 11 05:44:43 1994
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Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 08:19:02 -0500 (EST)
From: Paul Ribeiro <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Confused users -- moving of read messages
To: Klaus Zeuge <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Tue, 11 Jan 1994, Klaus Zeuge wrote:
> At my SunOS 4.1.3 site, we want to move read messages from file
> /usr/spool/mail/$USER to file $HOME/mail/mailbox. To do this, the
You could also create a mail.TxT file in their home directory, this
will suck the mail out of spool into their home, but to the user
it will all be a part of the "INBOX".
/P

From [email protected] Tue Jan 11 12:26:01 1994
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id AA06690; Tue, 11 Jan 1994 13:56:23 -0600 for [email protected]
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 13:55:58 PST
From: Darryl Friesen <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Darryl Friesen <[email protected]>
Subject: Q: Can I print to LPT3 with PC-Pine 3.89
To: Pine Mailing List <[email protected]>
X-Sender: friesend@herald
Message-Id: <PCPine_p.3.89.9401111329.B6298-0100000@[128.233.2.37]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Is is possible to use LPT2 or LPT3 with PC-Pine 3.89? The reason I
ask is that we have a number of network print queues available on each
machine, and LPT1 is not always a text queue (ie. on some machines
LPT1 is connected to a postscript only, or a local postacript printer).

Thanx

- Darryl

--------------------------------------------------------------
Darryl Friesen | Client Services
[email protected] | Department of Computing Services
[email protected] | University of Saskatchewan
--------------------------------------------------------------

From [email protected] Tue Jan 11 14:27:59 1994
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Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 14:27:28 -0600 (CST)
From: "Isaias Callejas Mancilla." <[email protected]>
Reply-To: "Isaias Callejas Mancilla." <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Documentation for Pine (fwd)
To: [email protected]
Cc: The PINE List <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Hi Sherry,
I post a old mail..... I hope help you...

bye...

/####### E. Isaias Callejas M.
/# /############ System Manager from Microvax 3400 System
/## /############## Coordination of Computing Services
### /## ### Academic Computing
### ### ### National University of Mexico
### ########## ###
### ### ### =================================================
### ##/ ###
##############/ ##/ Internet : [email protected]
############/ #/ Bitnet : [email protected]
#######/

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 15:09:19 GMT
From:[email protected]
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
Subject: Re: Documentation for Pine (fwd)

> From [email protected] Fri Nov 12 19:27:21 1993
> Received: from dummy1.dur.ac.uk by vega.dur.ac.uk; Fri, 12 Nov 93 19:27:11 GMT
>
> You neglected to mention that this documentation is based on PINE 3.05!
> If anyone redoes this for the current releases, I would be grateful!
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We have a set of Course Notes, recently updated to be applicable to
version 3.8* of Pine. The document has been produced using Interleaf, and
contains screen displays (but these are text, not screen dumps). I can
supply a hard copy, a PostScript file, the Interleaf file, an rtf version
(produced by Interleaf, readable by Word), and a plain text version to
anyone who wants one.

The files are available via ftp to deneb.dur.ac.uk, in the directory
pub/Documents/Pine. The Interleaf files are in a subdirectory of Pine, called
Interleaf.

Access deneb using the username 'anonymous'

Barbara Smith

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dr. B.L. Smith Email: [email protected]
Information Technology Service, Phone: (091 or +44 91) 374 2873
University of Durham, Secretary: (091 or +44 91) 374 2892
Science Laboratories Fax: (091 or +44 91) 374 3741
South Road,
DURHAM, DH1 3LE UK

From [email protected] Tue Jan 11 16:26:39 1994
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Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 16:16:55 -0800 (GMT-0800)
From: VampLestat <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Confused users -- moving of read messages
To: Paul Ribeiro <[email protected]>
Cc: Klaus Zeuge <[email protected]>, [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Tue, 11 Jan 1994, Paul Ribeiro wrote:

> On Tue, 11 Jan 1994, Klaus Zeuge wrote:
> > At my SunOS 4.1.3 site, we want to move read messages from file
> > /usr/spool/mail/$USER to file $HOME/mail/mailbox. To do this, the
> You could also create a mail.TxT file in their home directory, this
> will suck the mail out of spool into their home, but to the user
> it will all be a part of the "INBOX".

I've also done a small mod to the code suggested by the Pine team that
does basically the same thing but uses ~/mbox. I think the mail.TxT is a
different mailbox format, isnt it?

_O_ Ryan L. Watkins [email protected]
| Academic Computing Services - California State University Long Beach
| pgp key available via 'finger [email protected]' or key server
finger me for my current Depeche Mode Collection For Sale list

From [email protected] Tue Jan 11 21:57:04 1994
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Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 21:47:59 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Subject: Results of "Y Print" survey
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

This is long overdue; sorry...

(For those new to this list: "Y Print" is not viewed as one of our very
best user-interface design decisions because "Y" is also a frequent
response to Pine's (y/n) prompts, so last month we asked for feedback on
which of several alternatives we should pursue...)

I have reviewed all of the responses to the survey on what to do about the
"Y" key. Eliminating any votes from the Pine team, here are the results:

1. "Do nothing" got 13 first choice responses, including two that indicated
they were based on a survey of their users. (One said all 149 of his
users preferred no change, but he personally would prefer to change.)

2. "Use K" got 3 first choice responses.

3. "Use %" got 8 first choice responses, including one that said "if a
change is needed, I prefer %", so this one might actually be a vote for
no change.

4. "Make it an option" got 0 first choice responses.

Plus there were two impassioned pleas to go back to using L for print, one
suggestion to make everything configurable, one to go to two-character
commands (which we have in some cases via subcommands) and one request to
do a thorough review and one massive change to make everything more
consistent --which is of course what we thought we were doing this past
spring :(

So the status quo appears to be the outcome preferred by a clear majority
as far as I can tell. That result was consistent with the feedback we got
from our own UW support folks. Accordingly, we will continue to use Y for
Print. However, as suggested in several messages to the list, we will
change the nomenclature from "Y Print" to "Y prYnt" to emphasize the
relationship.

-teg

From [email protected] Tue Jan 11 22:13:55 1994
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Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 21:57:12 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Confused users -- moving of read messages
To: VampLestat <[email protected]>
Cc: Paul Ribeiro <[email protected]>,
Klaus Zeuge <[email protected]>, [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Correct, mail.TxT is Tenex format which is not compatible with other mail
tools (including text editors ;) However, it can be a very big win if
you have a memory-constrained system.

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Tue, 11 Jan 1994, VampLestat wrote:

> On Tue, 11 Jan 1994, Paul Ribeiro wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 11 Jan 1994, Klaus Zeuge wrote:
> > > At my SunOS 4.1.3 site, we want to move read messages from file
> > > /usr/spool/mail/$USER to file $HOME/mail/mailbox. To do this, the
> > You could also create a mail.TxT file in their home directory, this
> > will suck the mail out of spool into their home, but to the user
> > it will all be a part of the "INBOX".
>
> I've also done a small mod to the code suggested by the Pine team that
> does basically the same thing but uses ~/mbox. I think the mail.TxT is a
> different mailbox format, isnt it?
>
> _O_ Ryan L. Watkins [email protected]
> | Academic Computing Services - California State University Long Beach
> | pgp key available via 'finger [email protected]' or key server
> finger me for my current Depeche Mode Collection For Sale list
>
>

From [email protected] Wed Jan 12 03:29:37 1994
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Date: Wed, 12 Jan 1994 11:16:25 +0000 (GMT)
From: Philip Hazel <[email protected]>
Subject: smtp-server=
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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A suggestion to the Pine Team:

We've just uncovered an uncomfortable trap. A user who had been using
PC-Pine logged onto our Unix system and wanted to use Pine there. He
naturally copied his pinerc file from the PC to the Unix system. The
problem was, it contained

smtp-server=<something>

which caused behaviour that we don't want; we want all mail sent on the
Unix system to go through sendmail (= smail, actually). Would it be
possible to have an option in the system pinerc that said "don't take any
notice of smtp-server settings in users' pinerc files"?

In fact, we'd appreciate a more general facility whereby we could give a
list of options that users were not allowed to change. (Have I suggested
this before?) As well as a general Unix system, we also have a "mail-only"
system, and currently have to hack Pine on that system to prevent users
escaping via the alternate editor and printer configuration options.

Regards,
Philip

--
Philip Hazel University Computing Service,
[email protected] New Museums Site, Cambridge CB2 3QG,
[email protected] England. Phone: +44 223 334714

From [email protected] Wed Jan 12 05:41:54 1994
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Date: Wed, 12 Jan 1994 08:10:38 -0500 (EST)
From: "James R. Kenyon" <[email protected]>
Subject: re: smtp-server=
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Philip Hazel's suggestion to make certain configurable fields only
configurable at the system-wide level sounds *great* to me -- it would
cut down on user questions here as people often get themselves into
trouble messing around with their PC-PINE configuration (and, to a lesser
extent, UNIX .pinerc).
-jk

>ph ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>ph From: Philip Hazel <[email protected]>
>ph Subject: smtp-server=

>ph A suggestion to the Pine Team:

...stuff deleted........

>ph In fact, we'd appreciate a more general facility whereby we could give
>ph a list of options that users were not allowed to change. (Have I
>ph suggested this before?) As well as a general Unix system, we also have
>ph a "mail-only" system, and currently have to hack Pine on that system to
>ph prevent users escaping via the alternate editor and printer configuration
>ph options.

From [email protected] Thu Jan 13 09:35:35 1994
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id <[email protected]>; Thu, 13 Jan 1994 17:07:38 +0000
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 1994 17:07:29 GMT
From: Barry Landy <[email protected]>
Subject: 2 PINE 3.89 problems
To: Pine Info List <[email protected]>
X-Sender: [email protected]
Message-Id: <PCPine_p.3.89.9401131645.B7039-0100000@[131.111.10.53]>
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I reported these two bugs to pine-bugs today. I wonder if other people
have experienced them, and if the collective wisdom of the group might
shed some light on the circumstances?

Both symptoms have occurred also with earlier releases of PINE.

1. Lost data in messages copied to folders.

I only see this very rarely, and when it happens it seems that the body
of the message (everything except the Berkeley header) vanishes.

This shows in the index as a line with blank data, and an empty message
(no header or anything) when trying to read the data. Whenever I have
spotted this quickly enough, I know that there was once genuine data, and
it has certainly genuinely disappeared (so it is not a phantom header
effect).

My most recent case I detected today, but seems to have occurred on Dec
15 (the gap is between two messages on that day). I installed 3.89 on Dec
8 (so the effect must be in 3.89).

2. "Blob"s
Files whose name is "blob" (the non ascii character which looks like a
square) appear in directories. This appears to happen quite reliably in
some circumstances, and not at all in others.

Thes effect seems to be highly environmentally dependent; the member of my
staff who tripped over it, can trigger it from any seat on our Novell Net,
and from his desktop (which remote boots from the Net), but not from my
desktop PC, which is locally booted. Conversely, if I move to the Network,
I can provoke the effect, but I cannot while I stay using my desktop
machine!

I have so far not been able to isolate what feature of the environment is
the one that differs critically in the two cases.

The circumstances reported that cause a failure (when conditions are
right!) are:
-------------------------
Running pine from outside the root directory, opening a folder and
quitting creates a blob. This blob is of various sizes, the smallest
being 4096.

Sometimes, when quitting, there is a long delay followed by a "Bug in Pine
detected: 'Can't write index cache in resize' message. The blob has then
used up all the remaining filespace (7MB in one case).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry Landy Computer Laboratory:+44 223 334600
Head of Systems and Development Direct line: +44 223 334713
University of Cambridge Computing Service
New Museums Site Email:[email protected]
Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QG

From [email protected] Fri Jan 14 01:54:56 1994
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id <[email protected]>; Fri, 14 Jan 1994 09:46:34 +0000
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 09:46:08 +0000 (GMT)
From: Ross Wakelin <[email protected]>
Subject: c-client windows library
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
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Hi all,

Has anyone, or is anyone, worked (working) on a c-client.dll over winsock
for MS windows (or workgroups).

If not it seems as if I will start spending a month of sundays taking the
dos pc-pine ports and trying to shoehorn them into a dll.

Thanks

Ross Wakelin [email protected]
Open Systems Director or ..mcsun!uknet!uknet!march!rossw
March Systems Consultancy Ltd +44 734 845 399
or [email protected] at home PGP signature available

From [email protected] Fri Jan 14 09:34:57 1994
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Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 09:17:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Henry Kuo <[email protected]>
Subject: UNIX-BINARIES
To: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Hi everyone:

I got one problem. If the system is IBM ES9000/ Model 480 running AIX
2.2, what kind of unix-binaries I should use or what I should do to run
pine on this system?

Thanks for any suggestion!

=Henry=

From [email protected] Fri Jan 14 09:36:09 1994
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id <[email protected]>; Fri, 14 Jan 1994 17:15:38 +0000
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 17:00:40 GMT
From: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Subject: PINE PC/Unix compatability and PCNFS (fwd)
To: Pine User Group <[email protected]>
X-Sender: [email protected]
Message-Id: <PCPine_p.3.89.9401141607.A9781-0100000@[134.225.33.95]>
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I sent this message to pine-bugs but I'm told pine-info is a good place
to send to as others may have simialr experience/workarounds/whatever
==============================================================================
We are trying to set up PC Pine to be compatible with the Unix hosted
version already in wide use at this site.

PINE's use of IMAP thus using the same mailboxes by the PC and Unix hosts
does of course make the two flavours broadly compatible, and as users here
usually mount their home directories with PC-NFS I have been investigating
to what extent the .signature and .addressbook files can be kept in common
between versions.

I find that both PC (v3.89) and Unix (v3.88) PINE are happy with either
DOS or Unix format .signature files, so provided that the names specified
in the .pinerc and PINERC files are compatible (i.e. Unix filenames map
into DOS filenames without being mangled by PCNFS) then this file can be
common to both types of PINE.

I find that likewise both flavours of PINE are happy with either format of
address book file, and again provided the names are compatible this would
seem to allow this file to be shared between versions: unfortunately
however when editing the address book file the DOS version of PINE gives
an error:

Error updating address book: Cross-device link

- and on exit from PINE, the file has been deleted! Oddly this only seems
to happen when the address book file is in the 'root' directory of the
NFS-mounted drive (whether this is the user's home directory or not): if
the file is in a subdirectory of the NFS-mounted drive, or the root
directory of a real disk or of a SUBSTed drive it is OK.

PC-NFS version is 5.00, and the filesystems tried have been an Auspex
fileserver and a Sun SPARCStation IPX. Possibly the problem is with
PC-NFS, hence the copy to the CHEST-PCNFS list - has anyone seen similar
funnies with PC-NFS-mounted files?

John Stumbles
[email protected] 0734 318435
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

From [email protected] Fri Jan 14 10:03:32 1994
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Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 09:53:12 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: UNIX-BINARIES
To: Henry Kuo <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Henry,

We do not supply pre-compiled binaries for AIX, except on the RS/6000.
You should get the source distribution (mail/pine.tar.Z on
ftp.cac.washington.edu) and build the "aix" version. Note that we no
longer actively support this port, so we cannot guarantee it's quality.

I hope that helps!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Fri, 14 Jan 1994, Henry Kuo wrote:

>
> Hi everyone:
>
> I got one problem. If the system is IBM ES9000/ Model 480 running AIX
> 2.2, what kind of unix-binaries I should use or what I should do to run
> pine on this system?
>
> Thanks for any suggestion!
>
>
> =Henry=

From [email protected] Fri Jan 14 10:57:27 1994
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Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 10:43:56 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: c-client windows library
To: Ross Wakelin <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Ross,
We had actually hoped that all the *shoehorning* was done to create the
*DOS* port, and moving to a DLL would be *easy* by comparison :)

Seriously, porting not just c-client, but all of Pine, to a
Winsock/Windows* environment is a very important project to us, but we
haven't had any resources to commit just yet. That could change soon,
however. If you think it makes any sense to try to collaborate, let's
discuss by separate email.

-teg

* Initially we intend to port the existing character-based Pine to Windows
without changing the interface to a GUI. After that, we'll look at whether
it makes sense to embark on a "WinPine" GUI version...

On Fri, 14 Jan 1994, Ross Wakelin wrote:

>
>
> Hi all,
>
> Has anyone, or is anyone, worked (working) on a c-client.dll over winsock
> for MS windows (or workgroups).
>
> If not it seems as if I will start spending a month of sundays taking the
> dos pc-pine ports and trying to shoehorn them into a dll.
>
> Thanks
>
> Ross Wakelin [email protected]
> Open Systems Director or ..mcsun!uknet!uknet!march!rossw
> March Systems Consultancy Ltd +44 734 845 399
> or [email protected] at home PGP signature available
>
>

From [email protected] Fri Jan 14 11:23:52 1994
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Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 11:03:39 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: UNIX-BINARIES
To: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I should have been a bit more clear about the status of the AIX ports.

We *do* actively support Pine running under AIX 3.2 on the IBM RS/6000
platform. This is the "a32" port of pine and corresponds to the
pine-bin.aix32 and pico-bin.aix32 pre-compiled binaries in the
mail/UNIX-BINARIES directory on ftp.cac.washington.edu.

We no longer have access to AIX on our IBM 9000 and thus cannot provide
direct support for that platform. This is the "aix" port of pine. We
will continue to distribute the "aix" port and incorporate patches from
outside contributors on a best-effort basis.

I am sorry about any confusion/panic this might have caused!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Fri, 14 Jan 1994, David L Miller wrote:

>
> Henry,
>
> We do not supply pre-compiled binaries for AIX, except on the RS/6000.
> You should get the source distribution (mail/pine.tar.Z on
> ftp.cac.washington.edu) and build the "aix" version. Note that we no
> longer actively support this port, so we cannot guarantee it's quality.
>
> I hope that helps!
>
> --DLM
>
> |\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
> |/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
> University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
> 4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA
>
> On Fri, 14 Jan 1994, Henry Kuo wrote:
>
> >
> > Hi everyone:
> >
> > I got one problem. If the system is IBM ES9000/ Model 480 running AIX
> > 2.2, what kind of unix-binaries I should use or what I should do to run
> > pine on this system?
> >
> > Thanks for any suggestion!
> >
> >
> > =Henry=
>

From [email protected] Fri Jan 14 11:32:26 1994
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Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 11:21:03 -0800 (PST)
From: VampLestat <[email protected]>
Subject: attached-to-ansi printing
To: Pine Info List <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

A professor here is attempting to print out her mail on her local
printer without success. Pine apparently ships off the message and
indicates that the message has been printed, but with no results.

She is trying this from a Mac running Kermit to a HP Deskwriter C. Pine
is version 3.88. Does attached to ansi function properly with Kermit and
this printer?

_O_ Ryan L. Watkins [email protected]
| Academic Computing Services - California State University Long Beach
| pgp key available via 'finger [email protected]' or key server
finger me for my current Depeche Mode Collection For Sale list

From [email protected] Fri Jan 14 11:55:36 1994
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Message-Id: <[email protected]>
From: jay%[email protected] (Jay Schuster)
Subject: Re: UNIX-BINARIES (and questions)
To: [email protected] (Pine List)
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 94 14:42:36 EST
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>; from "David L Miller" at Jan 14, 94 9:53 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

David L Miller writes:
> We do not supply pre-compiled binaries for AIX, except on the RS/6000.
> You should get the source distribution (mail/pine.tar.Z on
> ftp.cac.washington.edu) and build the "aix" version. Note that we no
> longer actively support this port, so we cannot guarantee it's quality.

Well, I just recently downloaded it, and its quality seems to be excellent.

I saw Pine in action at the University of Vermont, where they just put
everyone on the net. Helping a friend use it who only had Macintosh
experience convinced me that this was an excellent mail system, one
I could teach without ever having seen it before, and one he could use
knowing very little.

I'd like to give our users here the option to use Pine.

Now for *my* questions.

I'm new to this list, so if there's an FAQ that answers these questions,
just refer me to it. We use mostly Elm here, and are looking into Pine
because it's seems easier to learn to use, and because the header editor
is incorporated into the message editor. But I have Elm prejudices:

1. When my .signature is included, how do I get the standard `-- '
placed above it (or do I have to place this in my .signature file?

2. I'd like included text (from replies, or for forwards) to be
prefixed with a fixed string (like `> '). Can I do this in pine,
I've read the FM, and I don't see a configuration option for it.

3. In .pinerc, when inbox-path is left empty, pine doesn't look at
the MAIL environment variable for the mailbox; it always assumes
it is in /usr/spool/mail (or /usr/mail, presumably). I can
easily override this with `inbox-path=$MAIL', so it's not a big
deal, it just surprised me.

4. The remarks about being able to get around being prompted for
username and password each time you connect to an imapd imply
that it can be made to use the rsh authentication. It's not
too clear on how to set this up (just make a link to rimapd,
but don't I need to put rimapd in /etc/inetd.conf instead of
imapd?). In any case, it doesn't seem to work here. At first
I thought it was maybe because I don't have a .rhosts (we use
hosts.equiv), but creating one didn't help.

5. As a note to concurrent Elm users -- Pine rewrites your mailbox,
adding X-Status: headers to old messages. If you are in Elm and
Pine simultaneously, Elm will think the mailbox is corrupt the next
time it looks at it after Pine changes it. I understand why Pine
does this, and Elm (2.3PL11) wasn't written to allow concurrent
mailbox changes.

6. In Pico, is there any key sequence that will get me to the beginning
or end of the document? Or a way to prefix numbers to commands
so I don't have to hit ^V a dozen times? Am I being too picky?

Pico is a *great* editor for first time users. The built-in help, auto
word-wrap (with a way to disable it!) makes it easy for novices to change
UNIXy things.

--
Jay Schuster <[email protected]> uunet!uvm-gen!banzai!jay, attmail!banzai!jay
The People's Computer Company `Revolutionary Programming'

From [email protected] Fri Jan 14 13:17:03 1994
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Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 12:55:11 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: UNIX-BINARIES (and questions)
To: Jay Schuster <jay%[email protected]>
Cc: Pine List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

See my comments below.

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Fri, 14 Jan 1994, Jay Schuster wrote:

> David L Miller writes:
> > We do not supply pre-compiled binaries for AIX, except on the RS/6000.
> > You should get the source distribution (mail/pine.tar.Z on
> > ftp.cac.washington.edu) and build the "aix" version. Note that we no
> > longer actively support this port, so we cannot guarantee it's quality.
>
> Well, I just recently downloaded it, and its quality seems to be excellent.
>
Glad to hear it!

> I saw Pine in action at the University of Vermont, where they just put
> everyone on the net. Helping a friend use it who only had Macintosh
> experience convinced me that this was an excellent mail system, one
> I could teach without ever having seen it before, and one he could use
> knowing very little.
>
> I'd like to give our users here the option to use Pine.
>
> Now for *my* questions.
>
> I'm new to this list, so if there's an FAQ that answers these questions,
> just refer me to it. We use mostly Elm here, and are looking into Pine
> because it's seems easier to learn to use, and because the header editor
> is incorporated into the message editor. But I have Elm prejudices:
>
> 1. When my .signature is included, how do I get the standard `-- '
> placed above it (or do I have to place this in my .signature file?
>
You have to include it in the .signature file.

> 2. I'd like included text (from replies, or for forwards) to be
> prefixed with a fixed string (like `> '). Can I do this in pine,
> I've read the FM, and I don't see a configuration option for it.
>
Replies get '> ', forwards do not. This is not currently configurable,
but is on the list for consideration in the spring release.

> 3. In .pinerc, when inbox-path is left empty, pine doesn't look at
> the MAIL environment variable for the mailbox; it always assumes
> it is in /usr/spool/mail (or /usr/mail, presumably). I can
> easily override this with `inbox-path=$MAIL', so it's not a big
> deal, it just surprised me.
>
Correct. The default location is set in the OS-dependent includes to be
the "usual location" for a particular OS. This can be overridden per
system in the /usr/local/lib/pine.conf file. The objective is to reduce
surprise for novice users who probably do not know about the MAIL
variable.

> 4. The remarks about being able to get around being prompted for
> username and password each time you connect to an imapd imply
> that it can be made to use the rsh authentication. It's not
> too clear on how to set this up (just make a link to rimapd,
> but don't I need to put rimapd in /etc/inetd.conf instead of
> imapd?). In any case, it doesn't seem to work here. At first
> I thought it was maybe because I don't have a .rhosts (we use
> hosts.equiv), but creating one didn't help.
>
If you make an rsh connection, you are not going through inetd and
therefore do not need an entry in inetd.conf for rimapd. To test rimapd,
just execute "rsh host /etc/rimapd". You should get something like

* PREAUTH shivafs.cac.washington.edu IMAP2bis Service 7.6(74) at Fri, 14 Jan 1994 12:49:28 -0800 (PST)

To exit rimapd, use "* logout"

> 5. As a note to concurrent Elm users -- Pine rewrites your mailbox,
> adding X-Status: headers to old messages. If you are in Elm and
> Pine simultaneously, Elm will think the mailbox is corrupt the next
> time it looks at it after Pine changes it. I understand why Pine
> does this, and Elm (2.3PL11) wasn't written to allow concurrent
> mailbox changes.
>
> 6. In Pico, is there any key sequence that will get me to the beginning
> or end of the document? Or a way to prefix numbers to commands
> so I don't have to hit ^V a dozen times? Am I being too picky?
>
Not yet.

> Pico is a *great* editor for first time users. The built-in help, auto
> word-wrap (with a way to disable it!) makes it easy for novices to change
> UNIXy things.
>
Thank you!

> --
> Jay Schuster <[email protected]> uunet!uvm-gen!banzai!jay, attmail!banzai!jay
> The People's Computer Company `Revolutionary Programming'

From [email protected] Fri Jan 14 15:22:39 1994
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Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 15:07:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Mike Ramey <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: y/n/^C
To: Richard Lee <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9401141353.A15590-0100000@comp>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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> So where the ^C would be a useful option it is unavailable and
> where ^C is available it is confusing. But that's just one user's view.

Well put; I agree. Please allow users to abort the Q(uit) command. -mr

From [email protected] Sat Jan 15 09:52:36 1994
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Date: Sat, 15 Jan 1994 09:37:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Henry Kuo <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: UNIX-BINARIES
To: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Fri, 14 Jan 1994, David L Miller wrote:

> We *do* actively support Pine running under AIX 3.2 on the IBM RS/6000

> will continue to distribute the "aix" port and incorporate patches from
> outside contributors on a best-effort basis.

Therefore, if I have pine-bin.aix32, where and how can I get the
incorporate patches of IBM ES9000 Model 480 running AIX 2.2?

Thanks!!

=Henry=

From [email protected] Sun Jan 16 18:39:02 1994
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To: [email protected]
From: [email protected] (Ralph Sims)
Subject: Pine for Winsock?
X-Mailer: <PC Eudora Version 1.4b22>

Well, now that I have Winsock up and flying, and Eudora's working
as well as can be expected, I'm ready for pine. Is there a version
out to work with the Trumpet Winsock v.18 Alpha things?

From [email protected] Sun Jan 16 19:40:37 1994
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Date: Sun, 16 Jan 1994 19:23:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine for Winsock?
To: Ralph Sims <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Not yet, but it is definitely a goal.

-teg

On Sun, 16 Jan 1994, Ralph Sims wrote:

> Well, now that I have Winsock up and flying, and Eudora's working
> as well as can be expected, I'm ready for pine. Is there a version
> out to work with the Trumpet Winsock v.18 Alpha things?
>
>

From [email protected] Mon Jan 17 01:28:12 1994
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id <[email protected]>; Mon, 17 Jan 1994 09:16:44 +0000
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 1994 09:19:39 GMT
From: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: y/n/^C
To: Pine User Group <[email protected]>,
Mike Ramey <[email protected]>
X-Sender: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <PCPine_p.3.89.9401170923.D9791-0100000@[134.225.33.95]>
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On Fri, 14 Jan 1994, Mike Ramey wrote:

> > So where the ^C would be a useful option it is unavailable and
> > where ^C is available it is confusing. But that's just one user's view.
>
> Well put; I agree. Please allow users to abort the Q(uit) command. -mr
>

And for PC-PINE can we have the ESCAPE key do the same as ^C, as that's a
common DOSsy way of doing things?

John Stumbles
[email protected] 0734 318435
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

From [email protected] Mon Jan 17 02:52:12 1994
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Date: Mon, 17 Jan 1994 21:40:30 +1000 (EET)
From: Eddie Leonardi <[email protected]>
Subject: Using ^^ to mark lines
To: Pine-info <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Dear Sirs,

I have recently started to use Pine 3.89 and am having problems using
the mark text command "^^". This us used by our network switch to suspend
a given work session and put the user back to the switch. Is there some
other command which can also be used to mark text or is it possible to
redefine this command??

Regards
Eddie

*--------------------------------------------------------*
| Associate Professor Eddie Leonardi |
| School of Mechanical and Manufacturing Engineering |
| The University of New South Wales |
| P.O. Box 1, Kensington, N.S.W., AUSTRALIA 2033 |
| |
| E-mail: [email protected] ; Fax: (+61 2) 663 1222 |
| Phone: Work: (+61 2) 697 4252 ; Home: (+61 2) 646 2568 |
*--------------------------------------------------------*

From [email protected] Mon Jan 17 03:16:32 1994
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Date: Mon, 17 Jan 1994 06:01:39 -0500 (EST)
From: Ken Weaverling <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Using ^^ to mark lines
To: Eddie Leonardi <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine-info <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

If you are using a Cisco terminal server, just press ^^ twice in a row.
If you are using a 3COM or Data General terminal server, you can redefine
the "ECMC" character to something else. For example: set privilige
level to global and then redefine for each port with a terminal on it.

> set pri=g
Password: whatever
> setd (!1) ecmc=^\

Note ... type out the chars ^ and \ above, don't use CTRL-\

If you are just a "common" user on a 3COM term server, log in, then
first time you press ^^ and go to the term server prompt, enter the
command "set ecmc=^\" and then "resume" and you are back into business.

On Mon, 17 Jan 1994, Eddie Leonardi wrote:

> I have recently started to use Pine 3.89 and am having problems using
> the mark text command "^^". This us used by our network switch to suspend
> a given work session and put the user back to the switch. Is there some
> other command which can also be used to mark text or is it possible to
> redefine this command??
>
> Regards
> Eddie
>
> *--------------------------------------------------------*
> | Associate Professor Eddie Leonardi |
> | School of Mechanical and Manufacturing Engineering |
> | The University of New South Wales |
> | P.O. Box 1, Kensington, N.S.W., AUSTRALIA 2033 |
> | |
> | E-mail: [email protected] ; Fax: (+61 2) 663 1222 |
> | Phone: Work: (+61 2) 697 4252 ; Home: (+61 2) 646 2568 |
> *--------------------------------------------------------*
>
>

Ken Weaverling [email protected] |*|
Manager of Computer Services |*| Wilmington: +1 302 573-5460
Stanton/Wilmington Campuses of |*| Stanton: +1 302 454-3978
Delaware Technical & Community College |*|

From [email protected] Mon Jan 17 03:20:00 1994
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id <[email protected]>; Mon, 17 Jan 1994 11:08:06 +0000
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 1994 11:06:16 GMT
From: Barry Landy <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: y/n/^C
To: Richard Lee <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
X-Sender: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9401141353.A15590-0100000@comp>
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On Fri, 14 Jan 1994, Richard Lee wrote:

> And the one place where one *needs* this feature, I think it
> still is unavailable. I have sometimes asked to quit pine and then
> immediately realized I didn't want to. At that point I am given the

Actually, this is subject to the "quit-without-confirm" option, so I
presume you have this set (possibly because you have "old-growth").
Without that option you get asked "do you really want to leave pine y/n".

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry Landy Computer Laboratory:+44 223 334600
Head of Systems and Development Direct line: +44 223 334713
University of Cambridge Computing Service
New Museums Site Email:[email protected]
Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QG

From [email protected] Mon Jan 17 10:44:10 1994
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From: Sharon Deng <[email protected]>
Subject: Add a address to a list?
To: Pine Info Group <[email protected]>
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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Hi,
I want to take a address from the incoming message, and add to a mail
list which alrealy have several address. Could anyone tell me how to do
it? Thank you in advance.

Sharon Deng
Assistant Director Internet: [email protected]
Academic Computer Center [email protected]
University of Redlands Phone: (909)793-2121 x.4963

From [email protected] Mon Jan 17 11:38:10 1994
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Date: Mon, 17 Jan 1994 19:26:44 GMT
From: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Reply-To: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Subject: PC/UNIX PINE compatability (cont'd)
To: Pine Mission Control <[email protected]>,
Pine User Group <[email protected]>
X-Sender: [email protected]
Message-Id: <PCPine_p.3.89.9401171912.B9786-0100000@[134.225.33.95]>
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Further to me previous postings about this: I said both (PC and Unix)
versions of Pine seem happy with either DOS or Unix format for address
book and signature files.

However I have seen today a funny with the Unix version of Pine (v3.88)
with a DOS format address book file: the first column (nicknames) displays
only parts of some entries, until the cursor has run over the entry, and
then it gets filled in. Once the entry has paged off the screen and back
on it has gaps again. E.g.:

ed Bloggs, Fred f.bloggs
a ur Daley, Arthur [email protected]
g d Deity, The s.being@heaven

and after the cursor has been down the page:

fred Bloggs, Fred f.bloggs
arthur Daley, Arthur [email protected]
god Deity, The s.being@heaven

etc - get the idea?

With the DOS version of Pine reading a Unix format file everything is OK.

I also noted that the Unix Pine doesn't change the format of the address
book file when it edits it, but the DOS version re-writes a Unix format
file in DOS format when any changes are made.

John Stumbles
[email protected] 0734 318435
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

From [email protected] Mon Jan 17 11:40:42 1994
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Date: Mon, 17 Jan 1994 19:30:46 GMT
From: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Subject: more bugs
To: Pine User Group <[email protected]>,
Pine Mission Control <[email protected]>
X-Warning: UNAuthenticated Sender
Message-Id: <PCPine_p.3.89.9401171942.F9786-0100000@[134.225.33.95]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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When trying to use PC pine to access a mailbox on a machine that probably
doesn't have the IMAP daemon running (I thought it did!) Pine bombed out
with an error:

run-time error R6000
- stack overflow

and when I started it up again it complained that it could not find a
packet driver (and TRYPKTD - which comes with NuPOP - agreed).

PC PINE V3.89

John Stumbles
[email protected] 0734 318435
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

From [email protected] Mon Jan 17 12:37:03 1994
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Date: Mon, 17 Jan 1994 15:24:37 -0500
From: Andy Poling <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Update Disable ?
To: "Michael A. Crowley" <[email protected]>
Cc: Scott McWilliams <[email protected]>, [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Sun, 9 Jan 1994, Michael A. Crowley wrote:
> It will probably generate less traffic than my responding
> to this message. I'd suggest not to worry about it.

Does this mean that it is somewhat clever (i.e. it checks to see if an update is
necessary before doing it)?

-Andy

PS: Does the latest version of pico do an idlok() or the equivalent? The
version with 3.05 is maddeningly slow when it keeps re-drawing everything each
time I delete a line...

Andy Poling Internet: [email protected]
UNIX Systems Programmer Bitnet: ANDY@JHUNIX
Homewood Academic Computing Voice: (410)516-8096
Johns Hopkins University UUCP: uunet!mimsy!aplcen!jhunix!andy

From [email protected] Mon Jan 17 13:30:56 1994
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Date: Mon, 17 Jan 1994 21:19:05 GMT
From: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Subject: PCpine 3.89 newsreading bomb
To: Pine Mission Control <[email protected]>,
Pine User Group <[email protected]>
X-Sender: [email protected]
Message-Id: <PCPine_p.3.89.9401172137.A9786-0100000@[134.225.33.95]>
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PC Pine 3.89, when asked to read remote news folder, bombs with error:

421 SMTP connection went away

and PC reboots!

John Stumbles
[email protected] 0734 318435
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

From [email protected] Mon Jan 17 13:55:15 1994
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Date: Mon, 17 Jan 1994 21:47:49 GMT
From: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Reply-To: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Subject: PC/Unix compatability (again!)
To: Pine Mission Control <[email protected]>,
Pine User Group <[email protected]>
X-Sender: [email protected]
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I was wrong about another aspect of the compatability between Unix and PC
versions: mailboxes - other than INBOX - do not seem to be readable by Unix
pine 3.88 when they have been written by PC Pine 3.89.

This is of course a case where the PC-written mailboxes are in DOS file
format, and Unix Pine (presumably) expects Unix file format.

<sigh>

Maybe I've got the wrong end of the stick here?

I assumed that the point of PC-PINE using IMAP was to allow it to
manipulate the same mailboxes that the native Unix Pine does, and so
allow users to switch seamlessly between one implementation and another.
The more-or-less compatability between the two versions in reading
signature and address book files strengthened my assumption that this was
one of the design criteria of PINE.

In an academic environment this holds out the promise that the user can
normally use the PC based version, but when away from base can log in over
the network and use the Unix hosted version and still have the same
environment, including access to their mail folders, address book etc.
This seems like a very important potential benefit, and a reason for
choosing Pine rather than NuPOP, Eudora, PC-ELM, Lifeline or whatever.

Am I wrong about the design philosophy, or is it just buggy? Or is it the
difference in versions? Unfortunately I'm not sysadmin of the unix box so
I can't up the Unix version to match the DOS one.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking PINE, I like it: it's straightforward
to use and fairly easy to set up - not what I'd say about the others. (And
I _love_ the postpone composition feature!) I'd just like to know what
it's _supposed_ to do, and have it do it!

:-)

BTW, this is all with the packet-driver version of PC Pine. I tried the
PCNFS version and it didn't run (I forget why - I think it said it
couldn't find its IMAP server). It didn't have any documentation on how
to set up the PCNFS version, and the Packet Driver version worked so I've
stuck with it. Can anyone tell me how to get the PCNFS ver. working?

John Stumbles Reading University
[email protected] 0734 318435
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From [email protected] Mon Jan 17 14:49:24 1994
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Date: Mon, 17 Jan 1994 14:31:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Subject: re: PC/Unix compatability (again!)
To: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Mission Control <[email protected]>,
Pine User Group <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <PCPine_p.3.89.9401172147.A9786-0100000@[134.225.33.95]>
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If you are using IMAP from PC Pine and not the local DOS filesystem, then PC
Pine and UNIX Pine are completely compatible.

If you are using the local DOS filesystem to store mailboxes from PC Pine, the
file formats have two differences. One difference is in newline convention;
the other is in the representation of timezones.

UNIX Pine 3.90 will be capable of reading the mailboxes written by PC Pine on
the local DOS filesystem, with the addition of a new UNIX MTX driver that
parallels the local file driver on DOS.

PC Pine will also be able to read Unix Pine mailboxes in ``MTX'' format (but
not other UNIX Pine format mailboxes -- Unix Pine presently is capable of
supporting nearly 1/2 dozen different formats of mail. DOS lacks the address
space to have such extensive support).

We do not, however, recommend using PC Pine to read mailboxes that reside on a
UNIX server through filesystem operations (e.g. through NFS or Novell) instead
of IMAP. This is because UNIX-based mailboxes require some rather complex
locking operations which are unavailable on DOS. Access will work, but the
protection afforded by this locking would be missing. IMAP addresses these
problems, and is the recommended solution.

There will be external standalone programs to convert mailboxes between
different formats.

From [email protected] Mon Jan 17 14:50:29 1994
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Date: Mon, 17 Jan 1994 22:41:35 +0000 (GMT)
From: Barry Landy <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Add a address to a list?
To: Sharon Deng <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Info Group <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

use the Take option to create a new alias from the address in the
incoming message. Then return to the main menu, and enter the
Addressbook; locate the mail list, and add the new alias to that list.

On Mon, 17 Jan 1994, Sharon Deng wrote:

> Hi,
> I want to take a address from the incoming message, and add to a mail
> list which alrealy have several address. Could anyone tell me how to do
> it? Thank you in advance.
>
>
> Sharon Deng
> Assistant Director Internet: [email protected]
> Academic Computer Center [email protected]
> University of Redlands Phone: (909)793-2121 x.4963
>
>
>

=======================================================================
Barry Landy, Head of Systems and Development,
University of Cambridge Computing Service
[email protected] 0223-334713 +44-223-334713

From [email protected] Tue Jan 18 02:50:33 1994
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id <[email protected]>; Tue, 18 Jan 1994 10:08:10 +0000
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 10:10:58 GMT
From: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Reply-To: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Subject: re: PC/Unix compatability (again!)
To: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine User Group <[email protected]>
X-Sender: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <PCPine_p.3.89.9401180928.A9786-0100000@[134.225.33.95]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Mon, 17 Jan 1994, Mark Crispin wrote:

> If you are using IMAP from PC Pine and not the local DOS filesystem, then PC
> Pine and UNIX Pine are completely compatible.
>
> If you are using the local DOS filesystem to store mailboxes from PC Pine, the
> file formats have two differences. One difference is in newline convention;
> the other is in the representation of timezones.

I'm quite happy to have both versions of PINE maintain the same set of
mailboxes, with the PC version at least using IMAP to do so, but I
evidently haven't got it set up to do so and I don't know how to do so -
I think I'm in an RTFM situation here, but I don't have TFM! I pulled
down the ZIP file from ftp.cac.washington.edu and it has installation
notes etc but no manual - is there one I've missed?

Thanks for your message, Mark. I assume from your email address that
you're part of the PINE team - ?

John Stumbles
[email protected] 0734 318435
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

From [email protected] Tue Jan 18 05:21:11 1994
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Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 07:56:12 -0500
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
From: [email protected] (Jim Finegan, (919) 315-4185, x54185)
To: "[email protected]"@bwco.com
Cc: [email protected], [email protected]
Subject: FWD: PINE for VMS

I was told I should contact you about these issues. BWCo would be
Willing to serve as a Beta Test site.

Jim Finegan
System Admin/Mgr
----------------------------
From: UNICRN::finej01 "James A. Finegan" 14-JAN-1994 09:02:05.57
To: [email protected]
CC: "James A. Finegan" <unicorn::finej01>
Subj: PINE for VMS

We have several users that receive mail that has MIME encoded attachments.
Some, like myself, prefer to receive our mail on a VMS system. Only,
the attachments do not port.

Do you have a PINE version for VMS? If so, how does one acquire it?

Also, is there an X-Windows version of PINE?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Jim Finegan.

From [email protected] Tue Jan 18 07:54:16 1994
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Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 08:32:36 -0700 (MST)
From: "Paul G. Leo Jr." <[email protected]>
Subject: re: PC/Unix compatability (again!)
To: Pine User Group <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Maybe I missed something in this thread.... Can one use an imap server
with pc pine, but also use pine to access the same user mailbox

Paul Leo e-mail [email protected]
University of Utah Medical School [email protected]
Eccles Institute of Human Genetics
Building 533 Room 2100 phone 801-585-3653
Salt Lake City, Utah 84106 fax 801-585-3910

From [email protected] Tue Jan 18 08:39:35 1994
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Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 08:06:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Subject: re: PC/Unix compatability (again!)
To: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine User Group <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <PCPine_p.3.89.9401180928.A9786-0100000@[134.225.33.95]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Please describe to us a bit more about how you have things set up, and we'll
try to help you figure out what to do next.

What do you set the inbox-path variable in your PC-Pine PINERC file?

Is there an IMAP server set up on your UNIX system? [Do you know what this
means and/or how to determine if one is set up?]

You may find the file mail/pine-tech-notes on ftp.cac.washington.edu
(available via anonymous FTP) to be helpful as well.

Yes, I am the author of the c-client library which is the underlying mailbox
access engine used by Pine, imapd, and various other email tools. I also
invented the IMAP protocol back in 1986.

In general, though, it's better to contact the Pine team by use of the email
address [email protected] than to contact individuals directly. That
way, questions (and their answers) are seen by everyone.

From [email protected] Tue Jan 18 09:34:40 1994
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Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 09:21:54 -0800 (GMT-0800)
From: VampLestat <[email protected]>
Subject:
To: Pine Info List <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I'm trying to determine what communications programs are compatable with
the 'attached-to-ansi' print option from a Mac. I've determined Mac
Kermit doesnt work. I know there is a UW hacked version of NCSA Telnet,
but I am looking for telecommunication programs that dial up via a modem.

The only two suggestions I have had so far are Mac340 from White Pine
Software, and Versaterm Pro. Are there any other programs that are known
to work?

_O_ Ryan L. Watkins [email protected]
| Academic Computing Services - California State University Long Beach
| pgp key available via 'finger [email protected]' or key server
finger me for my current Depeche Mode Collection For Sale list

From [email protected] Tue Jan 18 09:48:58 1994
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Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 09:29:12 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: PC/UNIX PINE compatability (cont'd)
To: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine User Group <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <PCPine_p.3.89.9401171912.B9786-0100000@[134.225.33.95]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

John,

I think at least part of what you are seeing is because of the newline
differences. PC-Pine sees the Unix NL and interprets it as a DOS CRNL,
but Unix Pine sees the DOS CRNL and interprets the CR as text! The other
problem is probably due to trying to display the CR...

The compatibility you are seeing is purely coincidental and not by design. A
future version of Pine will allow access to remote addressbooks via IMAP
which will resolve this problem.

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Mon, 17 Jan 1994, John Stumbles wrote:

> Further to me previous postings about this: I said both (PC and Unix)
> versions of Pine seem happy with either DOS or Unix format for address
> book and signature files.
>
> However I have seen today a funny with the Unix version of Pine (v3.88)
> with a DOS format address book file: the first column (nicknames) displays
> only parts of some entries, until the cursor has run over the entry, and
> then it gets filled in. Once the entry has paged off the screen and back
> on it has gaps again. E.g.:
>
> ed Bloggs, Fred f.bloggs
> a ur Daley, Arthur [email protected]
> g d Deity, The s.being@heaven
>
> and after the cursor has been down the page:
>
> fred Bloggs, Fred f.bloggs
> arthur Daley, Arthur [email protected]
> god Deity, The s.being@heaven
>
> etc - get the idea?
>
> With the DOS version of Pine reading a Unix format file everything is OK.
>
> I also noted that the Unix Pine doesn't change the format of the address
> book file when it edits it, but the DOS version re-writes a Unix format
> file in DOS format when any changes are made.
>
>
> John Stumbles
> [email protected] 0734 318435
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>
>
>

From [email protected] Tue Jan 18 09:57:18 1994
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Date: 18 Jan 94 18:43:07+0100
From: VampLestat <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <542111*@su-kom.dsv.su.se>
To: "Pine mailer discussions group (pine-infoEcac.washington.edu)" <[email protected]>,
Pine Info List <[email protected]>

From [email protected] Tue Jan 18 15:16:11 1994
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Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 16:31:42 -0600 (CST)
From: "Isaias Callejas Mancilla." <[email protected]>
Subject: SMTP servers on pine.conf...
To: The PINE List <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Hi all,
What advantage or disadvantage I have when type two (o more) SMTP
servers in my file pine.conf on redvax1 system???

Example : smtp-server=redvax1.dgsca.unam.mx,redvax2.dgsca.unam.mx
^
|- my system...

It will help me to support the demand of electronic mail on my
machine when "redvax1" is very busy???

I did read the tech notes of pine about it... but I not understand
very well yet ...
Thank's in advance...

/####### E. Isaias Callejas M.
/# /############ System Manager from Microvax 3400 System
/## /############## Coordination of Computing Services
### /## ### Academic Computing
### ### ### National University of Mexico
### ########## ###
### ### ### =================================================
### ##/ ###
##############/ ##/ Internet : [email protected]
############/ #/ Bitnet : [email protected]
#######/

From [email protected] Tue Jan 18 15:47:49 1994
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Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 15:34:10 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: SMTP servers on pine.conf...
To: "Isaias Callejas Mancilla." <[email protected]>
Cc: The PINE List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Pine will use the first server listed unless it fails to respond, in
which case it tries the next one in the list. If the second one fails to
respond, it will try the third one, etc.

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Tue, 18 Jan 1994, Isaias Callejas Mancilla. wrote:

> Hi all,
> What advantage or disadvantage I have when type two (o more) SMTP
> servers in my file pine.conf on redvax1 system???
>
> Example : smtp-server=redvax1.dgsca.unam.mx,redvax2.dgsca.unam.mx
> ^
> |- my system...
>
> It will help me to support the demand of electronic mail on my
> machine when "redvax1" is very busy???
>
> I did read the tech notes of pine about it... but I not understand
> very well yet ...
> Thank's in advance...
>
>
> /####### E. Isaias Callejas M.
> /# /############ System Manager from Microvax 3400 System
> /## /############## Coordination of Computing Services
> ### /## ### Academic Computing
> ### ### ### National University of Mexico
> ### ########## ###
> ### ### ### =================================================
> ### ##/ ###
> ##############/ ##/ Internet : [email protected]
> ############/ #/ Bitnet : [email protected]
> #######/

From [email protected] Wed Jan 19 06:14:14 1994
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Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 05:51:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Norm Aleks <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: your mail
To: VampLestat <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Info List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.85.9401190558.A25840-0100000@netcom7>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Tue, 18 Jan 1994, VampLestat wrote:

> I'm trying to determine what communications programs are compatable with
> the 'attached-to-ansi' print option from a Mac. I've determined Mac
> Kermit doesnt work. I know there is a UW hacked version of NCSA Telnet,
> but I am looking for telecommunication programs that dial up via a modem.

Hmm, Mac Kermit 0.99 works for me. But some other that work well are
Smartcom II, MicroPhone (almost any version, I think), VersaTerm and
VersaTerm Pro, White Knight.

Be sure you have the latest version of Mac Kermit (I think it's 0.99
(188)) and try again with that. I'm surprised to hear you had trouble.
Write me , if you like, with what else is going on. With a former job I
used to deal with lots of people who had terminal-emulation printing
problems.

Norm

____
\ / Norm Aleks [email protected] +1 508 797 4709
\/ UMass Med. Ctr. Box 279, 55 Lake Ave. N., Worcester, MA 01655-0001 USA
Q: What do you get when you cross Lee Iacocca and Dracula? A: AUTOEXEC.BAT

From [email protected] Wed Jan 19 09:57:58 1994
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Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 09:43:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Mike Ramey <[email protected]>
Subject: Accept ^C in more places.
To: Pine-Info Email List <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Suggest that ^C be accepted in more places to abort the current process;
for example: if I enter "C"ompose, and in the 'To' line press ^T, now I
am in the addressbook. If I want to exit from the addressbook, I can use
"E"xit, but ^C also makes sense (to abort this immediate process -- using
the addressbook and return to the composer; another ^C would be required
to abort the composer). -mr

From [email protected] Wed Jan 19 09:58:38 1994
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Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 09:39:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Mike Ramey <[email protected]>
Subject: Spell check on marked block ?
To: Pine-Info Email List <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Suggest that, in the pine composer:

^^
move cursor
^T

perform spell checking on the marked block only.
-mr

From [email protected] Wed Jan 19 19:34:27 1994
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Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 13:42:23 +1100 (EST)
From: Charlie Brady <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Spell check on marked block ?
To: Mike Ramey <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine-Info Email List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9401201301.C29462-0100000@sydte3>
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On Wed, 19 Jan 1994, Mike Ramey wrote:

> Suggest that, in the pine composer:
>
> ^^
> move cursor
> ^T
>
> perform spell checking on the marked block only.

What a great idea!! I second.

Charlie Brady * (W) [email protected] * (H) [email protected]
"Make it as simple as possible - | Tel: (02) 413 6838 ____Telectronics__| /\__
but no simpler" Einstein, A | Fax: (02) 413 6868 Pacing Systems \/

From [email protected] Wed Jan 19 19:40:14 1994
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Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 14:06:51 +1100 (EST)
From: Charlie Brady <[email protected]>
Subject: Verbosity and Obscurity
To: Pine Info <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9401201443.F29462-0100000@sydte3>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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I'm not sure if it has always been the case, or is a new change, but the
notification of new mail from Pine 3.89 is

"New mail from xxxxx in point of Some subject or other"

"in point of"?? What is wrong with "re" or "about" or "Subject:"?

Please don't use three words, and perhaps ones without a clear meaning
all through the English speaking world, when one will do.

Charlie Brady * (W) [email protected] * (H) [email protected]
"Make it as simple as possible - | Tel: (02) 413 6838 ____Telectronics__| /\__
but no simpler" Einstein, A | Fax: (02) 413 6868 Pacing Systems \/

From [email protected] Thu Jan 20 00:47:11 1994
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Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 19:07:53 +1100 (EST)
From: Jack Churchill <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Spell check on marked block ?
To: Pine-Info Email List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9401201301.C29462-0100000@sydte3>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Thu, 20 Jan 1994, Charlie Brady wrote:

>
> On Wed, 19 Jan 1994, Mike Ramey wrote:
>
> > Suggest that, in the pine composer:
> >
> > ^^
> > move cursor
> > ^T
> >
> > perform spell checking on the marked block only.
>
> What a great idea!! I second.

Me too. I also would like the spell checking to display the incorrect
words in sequential order starting from the top of the message instead of
in alphabetical order causing too much screen changing particularly with
long messages.

Jack N. Churchill | [email protected]
CSIRO Division of Exploration and Mining | [email protected]
PO Box 136 North Ryde NSW 2113 | Phone: +61 2 887 8884
Australia | Fax: +61 2 887 8921

From [email protected] Thu Jan 20 03:49:31 1994
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Subject: Re: Verbosity and Obscurity
From: Billy Barron <[email protected]>
To: [email protected] (Charlie Brady)
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 05:17:01 -0600
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9401201443.F29462-0100000@sydte3> from "Charlie Brady" at Jan 19, 94 09:06:51 pm
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In reply to Charlie Brady's message:
>
>I'm not sure if it has always been the case, or is a new change, but the
>notification of new mail from Pine 3.89 is
>
It's been the case for a long time at least.

>"New mail from xxxxx in point of Some subject or other"
>
>"in point of"?? What is wrong with "re" or "about" or "Subject:"?
>
Actually, sometimes the phrase constructed does not make any sense
to me.

>Please don't use three words, and perhaps ones without a clear meaning
>all through the English speaking world, when one will do.
>
I agree wholehearted.

--
Billy Barron, Network Services Manager, Univ of Texas at Dallas
[email protected]

From [email protected] Thu Jan 20 03:57:25 1994
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Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 18:03:21 +1100 (EST)
From: Charlie Brady <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Verbosity and Obscurity
To: Pine Info <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9401201443.F29462-0100000@sydte3>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9401201812.H29462-0100000@sydte3>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Thu, 20 Jan 1994, Charlie Brady wrote:

> "New mail from xxxxx in point of Some subject or other"
>
> "in point of"?? What is wrong with "re" or "about" or "Subject:"?
>
> Please don't use three words, and perhaps ones without a clear meaning
> all through the English speaking world, when one will do.

I've looked in the source code and see that there are twelve different
messages. This one is the only one I find really offensive - some call
me a pedant....

Charlie Brady * (W) [email protected] * (H) [email protected]
"Make it as simple as possible - | Tel: (02) 413 6838 ____Telectronics__| /\__
but no simpler" Einstein, A | Fax: (02) 413 6868 Pacing Systems \/

From [email protected] Thu Jan 20 04:29:16 1994
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id <[email protected]>; Thu, 20 Jan 1994 11:46:59 +0000
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 11:50:48 +0000 (GMT)
From: David Brownlee <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Verbosity and Obscurity
To: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9401201108.A15299-0100000@Victoria>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Another vote to cut down on 'in point of'!

David

[email protected]. Network Analyst. Postmaster. Hostmaster.
<_.-^-._> Telephone: (+44) 71 477 8000 Ext:3757. <_.-^-._>
Snailmail:E308, City University, Northampton Sq, Islington, London EC1V 0HB.

From [email protected] Thu Jan 20 06:13:06 1994
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Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 13:36:05 GMT
From: Barry Landy <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Verbosity and Obscurity
To: Pine Info <[email protected]>
X-Sender: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9401201443.F29462-0100000@sydte3>
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On Thu, 20 Jan 1994, Charlie Brady wrote:

>
> I'm not sure if it has always been the case, or is a new change, but the
> notification of new mail from Pine 3.89 is
>
> "New mail from xxxxx in point of Some subject or other"
>
> "in point of"?? What is wrong with "re" or "about" or "Subject:"?
>
> Please don't use three words, and perhaps ones without a clear meaning
> all through the English speaking world, when one will do.

Please do not restore Re: (I would be happiest with Subject:, and about
is OK). My non English first language users (and we have plenty!) find
normal English hard enough, and "re" is not a word in basic english.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry Landy Computer Laboratory:+44 223 334600
Head of Systems and Development Direct line: +44 223 334713
University of Cambridge Computing Service
New Museums Site Email:[email protected]
Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QG

From [email protected] Thu Jan 20 07:10:04 1994
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Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 14:39:56 +0000 (GMT)
From: Barry Cornelius <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Verbosity and Obscurity
To: Charlie Brady <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Info <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9401201812.H29462-0100000@sydte3>
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> On Thu, 20 Jan 1994, Charlie Brady wrote:
> > "New mail from xxxxx in point of Some subject or other"
> > "in point of"?? What is wrong with "re" or "about" or "Subject:"?
> > Please don't use three words, and perhaps ones without a clear meaning
> > all through the English speaking world, when one will do.
> I've looked in the source code and see that there are twelve different
> messages. This one is the only one I find really offensive - some call
> me a pedant....

I noticed that different messages were being used when producing a
document about Pine. I also checked the source, and found that 12
messages were possible and Pine "randomly" chooses one of them. At the
time I thought this was rather quaint. However, if you want to document
Pine (and I acknowledge that some would say that that is not needed), it
is helpful to have the same text each time.

So, I would vote for "always the same text", and like other people I would
prefer "about" because it is reasonably short and not as obscure as "re".

--
Barry Cornelius Durham (091 or +44 91) 374
4717
Information Technology Service, IT Service Office: 374 2892
University of Durham, Durham. Fax: 374 3741
DH1 3LE, UK E-mail: [email protected]

From [email protected] Thu Jan 20 07:11:45 1994
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Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 08:34:24 -0600 (CST)
From: Richard Lee <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Verbosity and Obscurity
To: Billy Barron <[email protected]>
Cc: Charlie Brady <[email protected]>, [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
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On Thu, 20 Jan 1994, Billy Barron wrote:

> >"New mail from xxxxx in point of Some subject or other"
> >
> >"in point of"?? What is wrong with "re" or "about" or "Subject:"?
>
> >Please don't use three words, and perhaps ones without a clear meaning
> >all through the English speaking world, when one will do.
> >
> I agree wholehearted.

If we're voting count mine with theirs (to replace "in point
of"). Maybe just a colon would do:

"New mail from Joe: Meeting tomorrow"
--

Dr. Richard Lee [email protected]
Department of Philosophy Old Main 318 [email protected]
University of Arkansas phone: 501-575-5826
Fayetteville, AR 72701

From [email protected] Thu Jan 20 07:18:28 1994
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Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 09:39:50 -0500 (EST)
From: Dan Schlitt <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Verbosity and Obscurity
Cc: Pine Info <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <PCPine_p.3.89.9401201343.B6333-0100000@[131.111.10.53]>
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I am not so concerned with what is said as in its length. Since the
information seems to be confined to one line I want to see more of who the
mail is from and what it is about and less boilerplate from pine.

A simple colon-space separator might be a language independent method.

/dan

Dan Schlitt School of Engineering Computer Systems
[email protected] City College of New York
(212)650-6760 New York, NY 10031

From [email protected] Thu Jan 20 07:32:53 1994
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id <[email protected]>; Thu, 20 Jan 1994 14:46:56 +0000
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 14:50:47 +0000 (GMT)
From: NoRM <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Verbosity and Obscurity
To: Barry Landy <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Info <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <PCPine_p.3.89.9401201343.B6333-0100000@[131.111.10.53]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9401201457.A28348-0100000@Victoria>
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Er... 'about' is a nice plain english word, and might be understood
better than 're:' which implies you know the word 'regarding.'

I don't like 'in point of' myself. It sounds sloppy....

[New mail! From [email protected] in point of Re: Bob]

....in point of regarding Bob. Hmmm....

Perhaps you could have 'From [email protected] about subject' and if the
subject starts 'Re:' you have 'From [email protected] in reply to subject.'

N.

.---------------------{ NoRM : [email protected] }------------------------.
| "Now when you pick a paw-paw, or a prickly pear, and you prick the |
| wrong paw, well next time beware. Don't pick a prickly pear with the |
| paw, when you pick a pear try to use the claw. But you don't need to |
| use the claw when you pick a pear of the big paw-paw. |
| Have I given you a clue ?" |
` '

On Thu, 20 Jan 1994, Barry Landy wrote:

> On Thu, 20 Jan 1994, Charlie Brady wrote:
>
> >
> > I'm not sure if it has always been the case, or is a new change, but the
> > notification of new mail from Pine 3.89 is
> >
> > "New mail from xxxxx in point of Some subject or other"
> >
> > "in point of"?? What is wrong with "re" or "about" or "Subject:"?
> >
> > Please don't use three words, and perhaps ones without a clear meaning
> > all through the English speaking world, when one will do.
>
> Please do not restore Re: (I would be happiest with Subject:, and about
> is OK). My non English first language users (and we have plenty!) find
> normal English hard enough, and "re" is not a word in basic english.
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Barry Landy Computer Laboratory:+44 223 334600
> Head of Systems and Development Direct line: +44 223 334713
> University of Cambridge Computing Service
> New Museums Site Email:[email protected]
> Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QG
>
>

From [email protected] Thu Jan 20 08:34:31 1994
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Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 11:08:17 -0500 (EST)
From: "Michael A. Crowley" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Verbosity and Obscurity
To: Barry Cornelius <[email protected]>
Cc: Charlie Brady <[email protected]>,
Pine Info <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.88-931125.9401201436.A7694-0100000@hercules>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Thu, 20 Jan 1994, Barry Cornelius wrote:

> > On Thu, 20 Jan 1994, Charlie Brady wrote:
> > > "New mail from xxxxx in point of Some subject or other"
> > > "in point of"?? What is wrong with "re" or "about" or "Subject:"?
> > > Please don't use three words, and perhaps ones without a clear meaning
> > > all through the English speaking world, when one will do.
> > I've looked in the source code and see that there are twelve different
> > messages. This one is the only one I find really offensive - some call
> > me a pedant....
>
> I noticed that different messages were being used when producing a
> document about Pine. I also checked the source, and found that 12
> messages were possible and Pine "randomly" chooses one of them. At the
> time I thought this was rather quaint. However, if you want to document
> Pine (and I acknowledge that some would say that that is not needed), it
> is helpful to have the same text each time.
>

This is quite easy to change without even bothering to modify the
random selection by setting each of the 12 lines to the same thing.
I used "Subj:" for the text string.

Mike

From [email protected] Thu Jan 20 08:50:43 1994
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Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 11:28:56 -0500 (EST)
From: Elaine Lolos <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Verbosity and Obscurity
To: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.88-931125.9401201436.A7694-0100000@hercules>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
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>On Thu, 20 Jan 1994, Barry Cornelius wrote:
>
> I noticed that different messages were being used when producing a
> document about Pine. I also checked the source, and found that 12
> messages were possible and Pine "randomly" chooses one of them. At the
> time I thought this was rather quaint. However, if you want to document
> Pine (and I acknowledge that some would say that that is not needed), it
> is helpful to have the same text each time.
>
> So, I would vote for "always the same text", and like other people I would
> prefer "about" because it is reasonably short and not as obscure as "re".

I agree with always using the same text, and something short. When I first
started using Pine, I noticed the messages having different text right
away, and it was confusing because I assumed there was some method to it.
I don't think having Pine randomly choose phrases is a good thing - it
doesn't promote that feeling of consistency.

Elaine Lolos
Tufts University
Medford, MA

From [email protected] Thu Jan 20 09:02:32 1994
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Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 08:45:04 -0800 (PST)
From: Mike Ramey <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Mike Ramey <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Verbosity and Obscurity
To: Pine Info <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9401201443.F29462-0100000@sydte3>
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Charlie - It's worse than that! The notification actually uses one of
several phrases selected at random from a list:
- in re
- about
- in point of
- apropos
- concerning
- a la
- <etc>

The original programmer probably thought that was a cute idea
(like obscure command names in unix), but I feel it is simply confusing.
Computer messages should (IMNSHO) present the relevant information in a
consistent way. The skeleton of the message should be -constant- so that
the user's attention is drawn to the significant variable part:
- WHO the message is from and
- WHAT the message is about.
The focus should be on the message not on the 'envelope'.
I have been urging the pine folks to change this for a lonnnnng time.
I'm glad to hear I'm not alone in my distaste for clever presentation.
-mr

On Thu, 20 Jan 1994, Charlie Brady wrote:
> "New mail from xxxxx in point of Some subject or other"
> "in point of"?? What is wrong with "re" or "about" or "Subject:"?
> Please don't use three words, and perhaps ones without a clear meaning
> all through the English speaking world, when one will do.

From [email protected] Thu Jan 20 09:39:13 1994
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Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 09:16:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Mike Ramey <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Mike Ramey <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Verbosity and Obscurity
To: Pine Info <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.88-931125.9401201436.A7694-0100000@hercules>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Thu, 20 Jan 1994, Barry Cornelius wrote:
> So, I would vote for "always the same text", and like other people I would
> prefer "about" because it is reasonably short and not as obscure as "re".

My preference:
[New mail! From: .....; Subject: ........]
because "From:" and "Subject:" are identical to the message header lines.
Why improvise when the standard words works just fine? -mr

From [email protected] Thu Jan 20 09:44:21 1994
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Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 09:20:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Mike Ramey <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Verbosity and Obscurity
To: [email protected]
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On Thu, 20 Jan 1994, Richard Lee wrote:
> "New mail from Joe: Meeting tomorrow"

Excellent! Short and clear. Better than my earlier suggestion.
Strunk & White would love it. -mr

From [email protected] Thu Jan 20 09:53:50 1994
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Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 09:40:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Sharon Deng <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Verbosity and Obscurity
To: Richard Lee <[email protected]>
Cc: Billy Barron <[email protected]>,
Charlie Brady <[email protected]>, [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9401200852.A7684-0100000@comp>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Thu, 20 Jan 1994, Richard Lee wrote:

> On Thu, 20 Jan 1994, Billy Barron wrote:
>
> > >"New mail from xxxxx in point of Some subject or other"
> > >
> > >"in point of"?? What is wrong with "re" or "about" or "Subject:"?
> >
> > >Please don't use three words, and perhaps ones without a clear meaning
> > >all through the English speaking world, when one will do.
> > >
> > I agree wholehearted.
>
> If we're voting count mine with theirs (to replace "in point
> of"). Maybe just a colon would do:
>
> "New mail from Joe: Meeting tomorrow"
> --
>
> Dr. Richard Lee [email protected]
> Department of Philosophy Old Main 318 [email protected]
> University of Arkansas phone: 501-575-5826
> Fayetteville, AR 72701
>
>
I am voting for the colon idea. What a great idea!

Sharon Deng
Assistant Director Internet: [email protected]
Academic Computer Center [email protected]
University of Redlands Phone: (909)793-2121 x.4963

From [email protected] Thu Jan 20 10:26:29 1994
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Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 09:49:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Mike Ramey <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Mike Ramey <[email protected]>
Subject: [End of Message] indication.
To: Pine-Info Email List <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Please show the End-of-Message signal as soon as the last page of the
message is displayed. This will save me pressing the space bar to be
sure that I'm at the end.

I would suggest the following.
- If the entire message fits on one screen, show: [ All ]
- Moving down, when last screen is displayed, show: [ End ]
- Moving up, when first screen is displayed, show: [ Top ]

In all cases:
- display the signal at the bottom of the screen, in reverse video;
- display the signal as soon as the condition is encountered,
do not wait until I try to move beyond the end/top of the message.

This last is important. Currently these signals are 'error messages'
(you tried to read past the end of the message, dummy); if the signals
were presented -as soon as- the condition occurred, they would become
'status messages'. Big difference in subjective feeling!

THANK YOU PINE TEAM -- when resuming composition of a suspended message,
the cursor is now on the first line of the message, rather that on the
'To:" line. Thank you much! -mr

From [email protected] Thu Jan 20 10:32:58 1994
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Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 09:59:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Mike Ramey <[email protected]>
Subject: Quit pine -> "You have new mail." ???
To: Pine-Info Email List <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Often, when I quit pine, I immediately get the message:
You have new mail.
before the unix prompt.

I suspect this is because pine only checks for new mail every xx seconds,
and it has not yet seen the new mail; so unix (cshell?) tells me about it
before presenting the unix prompt.

Suggestion: As part of the pine 'quit' processing, check for new mail
and allow the user to read it before completing the pine 'quit' command.
There is always the possibility of missing a new message that arrives
just 'after' pine quits, but the window of lost messages will be smaller
than it is now. -mr

From [email protected] Thu Jan 20 10:52:39 1994
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Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 12:16:21 -0600 (CST)
From: Matt Simmons <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Verbosity and Obscurity
To: Pine Mailing List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Thu, 20 Jan 1994, Mike Ramey wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Jan 1994, Barry Cornelius wrote:
> > So, I would vote for "always the same text", and like other people I would
> > prefer "about" because it is reasonably short and not as obscure as "re".
> My preference:
> [New mail! From: .....; Subject: ........]
> because "From:" and "Subject:" are identical to the message header lines.
> Why improvise when the standard words works just fine? -mr
Well, there are some of us out here who do think it's a nice change from
just the same old boring thing... Since the code for randomness is
already in there, if you do change it, please make it an option (perhaps
something #defined at compile time) so those of us who like the 12
messages can still have them?

Devoted _n______________________________________________ _________________
Teri / \|[]|"" \ |[]| |[]| |[]| |[]| / || \ |[]| |[]|
Polo ,(_____| |()_()\___| |___| |___| |___| |___/ || \___| |___| |
Fan <_______|__|_(_)_____|__|___|__|___|__|___|__|______||______|__|___|__|
=========\ Walt Disney World Monorail System ||
LCA _____\________________________________________________||_________________
__/ This highway's in perfect shape. Quick! Thank god I'm not a
_/ Break it so we can 'fix' it! -- IDOT Motto F. I. P. =)

From [email protected] Thu Jan 20 10:52:50 1994
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Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 10:17:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Mike Ramey <[email protected]>
Subject: Skipping quoted text.
To: Pine-Info Email List <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I just discovered the <tab> key skips to the next new message
-- even in reading mode. I tried it in hopes of skipping over
a large amount of >quoted text. Is there any way to do this?
-mr

From [email protected] Thu Jan 20 11:18:48 1994
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Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 12:52:19 -0600 (CST)
From: Richard Lee <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [End of Message] indication.
To: Mike Ramey <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine-Info Email List <[email protected]>
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On Thu, 20 Jan 1994, Mike Ramey wrote:

> THANK YOU PINE TEAM -- when resuming composition of a suspended message,
> the cursor is now on the first line of the message, rather that on the
> 'To:" line. Thank you much! -mr

I hadn't noticed that change. Definitely an improvement.

--

Dr. Richard Lee [email protected]
Department of Philosophy Old Main 318 [email protected]
University of Arkansas phone: 501-575-5826
Fayetteville, AR 72701

From [email protected] Thu Jan 20 11:21:35 1994
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Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 12:49:37 -0600 (CST)
From: Richard Lee <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Verbosity and Obscurity
To: Elaine Lolos <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
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On Thu, 20 Jan 1994, Elaine Lolos wrote:

> I agree with always using the same text, and something short. When I first
> started using Pine, I noticed the messages having different text right
> away, and it was confusing because I assumed there was some method to it.
> I don't think having Pine randomly choose phrases is a good thing - it
> doesn't promote that feeling of consistency.

Ditto. I vote for ": ".

--

Dr. Richard Lee [email protected]
Department of Philosophy Old Main 318 [email protected]
University of Arkansas phone: 501-575-5826
Fayetteville, AR 72701

From [email protected] Thu Jan 20 11:40:32 1994
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id <[email protected]>; Thu, 20 Jan 1994 19:15:02 +0000
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 19:14:58 +0000 (GMT)
From: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Verbosity and Obscurity
To: Pine User Group <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.88.9401201853.A633-0100000@suma3>
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On Thu, 20 Jan 1994, Mike Ramey (and others) wrote:

> My preference:
> [New mail! From: .....; Subject: ........]
> because "From:" and "Subject:" are identical to the message header lines.
> Why improvise when the standard words works just fine? -mr
> [...and others wrote about their preferences....]

Suggestion:
pinerc/PINERC:
# You can specify up to 12 set of strings to be used in announcing new mail,
# to be displayed at random - if only one string is specified only that set
# of strings will we used. The new-mail-from string comes at the beginning
# of the line, then the sender's name, the -subject-string and the subject
# e.g. New mail! from: Arthur Dent - Subject: A nice hot cup of tea

new-mail-from-string0='New mail! From: '
new-mail-subject-string0=' - Subject: '

new-mail-from-string1='Knock knock - postman! '
new-mail-subject-string1=' writing about: '

new-mail-from-string2='Hey! '
new-mail-subject-string2=' just wrote, about '

John Stumbles [email protected]
Reading University 0734 318435
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

From [email protected] Thu Jan 20 12:47:30 1994
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Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 12:09:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Hubert <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Verbosity and Obscurity
To: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.88-931125.9401201436.A7694-0100000@hercules>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

You people are no fun at all!

Spice up your day with a little uncertainty!
Steve Hubert <[email protected]>
Networks and Distributed Computing, Univ. of Washington, Seattle

From [email protected] Thu Jan 20 13:15:28 1994
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Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 14:51:55 -0600 (CST)
From: Matt Simmons <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Verbosity and Obscurity
To: Pine Mailing List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.88.9401201853.A633-0100000@suma3>
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On Thu, 20 Jan 1994, John Stumbles wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Jan 1994, Mike Ramey (and others) wrote:
> > My preference:
> > [New mail! From: .....; Subject: ........]
> > because "From:" and "Subject:" are identical to the message header lines.
> > Why improvise when the standard words works just fine? -mr
> > [...and others wrote about their preferences....]
> Suggestion:
> .pinerc/PINERC:
> # You can specify up to 12 set of strings to be used in announcing new mail,
> # to be displayed at random - if only one string is specified only that set
> # of strings will we used. The new-mail-from string comes at the beginning
> # of the line, then the sender's name, the -subject-string and the subject
> # e.g. New mail! from: Arthur Dent - Subject: A nice hot cup of tea
> new-mail-from-string0='New mail! From: '
> new-mail-subject-string0=' - Subject: '
> new-mail-from-string1='Knock knock - postman! '
> new-mail-subject-string1=' writing about: '
> new-mail-from-string2='Hey! '
> new-mail-subject-string2=' just wrote, about '
This sounds like a good one... It's got my vote..

Devoted _n______________________________________________ _________________
Teri / \|[]|"" \ |[]| |[]| |[]| |[]| / || \ |[]| |[]|
Polo ,(_____| |()_()\___| |___| |___| |___| |___/ || \___| |___| |
Fan <_______|__|_(_)_____|__|___|__|___|__|___|__|______||______|__|___|__|
=========\ Walt Disney World Monorail System ||
LCA _____\________________________________________________||_________________
__/ This highway's in perfect shape. Quick! Thank god I'm not a
_/ Break it so we can 'fix' it! -- IDOT Motto F. I. P. =)

From [email protected] Thu Jan 20 13:49:49 1994
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Date: Thu, 20 Jan 94 15:19:17 CST
From: "John Ladwig" <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
To: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine User Group <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Verbosity and Obscurity
In-Reply-To: John Stumbles's message <Pine.3.88.9401201853.A633-0100000@suma3> of 20 January 1994
References: <[email protected]>
<Pine.3.88.9401201853.A633-0100000@suma3>

>>>>> On Thu, 20 Jan 1994 19:14:58 +0000 (GMT), John Stumbles <[email protected]> said:

John> On Thu, 20 Jan 1994, Mike Ramey (and others) wrote:
>> Why improvise when the standard words works just fine? -mr
>> [...and others wrote about their preferences....]

John> Suggestion:
John> .pinerc/PINERC:

John> # You can specify up to 12 set of strings to be used in
John> # announcing new mail, to be displayed at random - if only
John> # one string is specified only that set of strings will we
John> # used. The new-mail-from string comes at the beginning of
John> # the line, then the sender's name, the -subject-string and
John> # the subject
John> # e.g. New mail! from: Arthur Dent - Subject: A nice hot cup of tea

John> new-mail-from-string0='New mail! From: '
John> new-mail-subject-string0=' - Subject: '

John> new-mail-from-string1='Knock knock - postman! '
John> new-mail-subject-string1=' writing about: '

John> new-mail-from-string2='Hey! '
John> new-mail-subject-string2=' just wrote, about '

new-mail-from-string2='The mailer-daemon hits! and hands you a scroll from'
new-mail-subject-string2=' inscribed: '

From [email protected] Thu Jan 20 13:50:27 1994
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Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 13:18:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Norm Aleks <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Verbosity and Obscurity
To: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine User Group <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.88.9401201853.A633-0100000@suma3>
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Thu, 20 Jan 1994, John Stumbles wrote:
> Suggestion:
> .pinerc/PINERC:
> # You can specify up to 12 set of strings to be used in announcing new mail,
> # to be displayed at random - if only one string is specified only that set
> # of strings will we used. The new-mail-from string comes at the beginning
> # of the line, then the sender's name, the -subject-string and the subject
> # e.g. New mail! from: Arthur Dent - Subject: A nice hot cup of tea
> new-mail-from-string0='New mail! From: '
> new-mail-subject-string0=' - Subject: '

Well, this thread is already so long, but I feel obliged to say I *love*
this suggestion. That way the configuration kings could set up anything
they (we!) like, and the default could be the colon.

One little change: I'd rather do something elmish and use %f and %s for
from and subject, and I'd rather not enumerate or limit the number of
possibilities ...

new-mail-strings = "New mail! %f: %s",
"Yoo hoo! %f says %s",
"%s (from %f)"

And if the Pine team doesn't have enough to do :), I liked the idea of
stripping out the Re: from a subject (optionally). It could be done with

new-reply-strings = "%f replied to %s"

Always another suggestion, always another suggestion ...

Norm

____
\ / Norm Aleks [email protected] +1 508 797 4709
\/ UMass Med. Ctr. Box 279, 55 Lake Ave. N., Worcester, MA 01655-0001 USA

From [email protected] Thu Jan 20 14:27:12 1994
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Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 16:00:41 -0600 (CST)
From: Richard Lee <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Verbosity and Obscurity
To: Matt Simmons <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Mailing List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9401201544.A7684-0100000@comp>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Length: 1147

> On Thu, 20 Jan 1994, John Stumbles wrote:
> > Suggestion:
> > .pinerc/PINERC:
> > # You can specify up to 12 set of strings to be used in announcing new mail,
> > # to be displayed at random - if only one string is specified only that set
> > # of strings will we used. The new-mail-from string comes at the beginning
> > # of the line, then the sender's name, the -subject-string and the subject
> > # e.g. New mail! from: Arthur Dent - Subject: A nice hot cup of tea
> > new-mail-from-string0='New mail! From: '
> > new-mail-subject-string0=' - Subject: '
> > new-mail-from-string1='Knock knock - postman! '
> > new-mail-subject-string1=' writing about: '
> > new-mail-from-string2='Hey! '
> > new-mail-subject-string2=' just wrote, about '

This allows fun lovers to have their fun (and Stumbles' lines here
are great) and still allows for some dull ": " default for those who are
nervous about confusing users. What a solution!

--

Dr. Richard Lee [email protected]
Department of Philosophy Old Main 318 [email protected]
University of Arkansas phone: 501-575-5826
Fayetteville, AR 72701

From [email protected] Thu Jan 20 14:55:39 1994
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Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 16:40:44 -0600 (CST)
From: Matt Simmons <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Verbosity and Obscurity
To: John Ladwig <[email protected]>
Cc: John Stumbles <[email protected]>,
Pine User Group <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Thu, 20 Jan 1994, John Ladwig started something he couldn't control:
> >>>>> On Thu, 20 Jan 1994 19:14:58 +0000 (GMT), John Stumbles <[email protected]> said:
> John> On Thu, 20 Jan 1994, Mike Ramey (and others) wrote:
> >> Why improvise when the standard words works just fine? -mr
> >> [...and others wrote about their preferences....]
> John> Suggestion:
> John> .pinerc/PINERC:
> John> # You can specify up to 12 set of strings to be used in
> John> # announcing new mail, to be displayed at random - if only
> John> # one string is specified only that set of strings will we
> John> # used. The new-mail-from string comes at the beginning of
> John> # the line, then the sender's name, the -subject-string and
> John> # the subject
> John> # e.g. New mail! from: Arthur Dent - Subject: A nice hot cup of tea
> John> new-mail-from-string0='New mail! From: '
> John> new-mail-subject-string0=' - Subject: '
> John> new-mail-from-string1='Knock knock - postman! '
> John> new-mail-subject-string1=' writing about: '
> John> new-mail-from-string2='Hey! '
> John> new-mail-subject-string2=' just wrote, about '
> new-mail-from-string2='The mailer-daemon hits! and hands you a scroll from'
> new-mail-subject-string2=' inscribed: '
new-mail-from-string2=''
new-mail-subject-string2=' opened their mouth and spewed '

Devoted _n______________________________________________ _________________
Teri / \|[]|"" \ |[]| |[]| |[]| |[]| / || \ |[]| |[]|
Polo ,(_____| |()_()\___| |___| |___| |___| |___/ || \___| |___| |
Fan <_______|__|_(_)_____|__|___|__|___|__|___|__|______||______|__|___|__|
=========\ Walt Disney World Monorail System ||
LCA _____\________________________________________________||_________________
__/ This highway's in perfect shape. Quick! Thank god I'm not a
_/ Break it so we can 'fix' it! -- IDOT Motto F. I. P. =)

From [email protected] Thu Jan 20 15:28:04 1994
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Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 16:57:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Andy Behrens <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Andy Behrens <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Verbosity and Obscurity
To: Pine User Group <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.07.9401201638.E12184-a100000@janus>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

John Stumbles wrote:
> Suggestion:
> .pinerc/PINERC:
>
> new-mail-from-string0='New mail! From: '
> new-mail-subject-string0=' - Subject: '
>
> new-mail-from-string1='Knock knock - postman! '
> new-mail-subject-string1=' writing about: '

It's cute, but I don't think it's a good idea. If pine is going to
have a million features, at least let them be things that are useful.

I vote for either "New mail from xxx: yyyyyyyyyy" or
"New mail! From: xxx; Subject yyyyyyyyyy",
but of those I like the plain ":" best.

From [email protected] Thu Jan 20 16:42:12 1994
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Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 16:29:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Elmar Kurgpold <[email protected]>
Subject: Read only folders for some, read-write for others
To: [email protected], Terry Gray <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9401201633.A20433-0100000@hal>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I've been trying to setup a folder that many people could open up with
read-only access, and one designated person could read and write. I tried
some variations on the methods in the attached message below, but couldn't
get anything to work with IMAP. By the way, I want this folder to be
treated as an incoming folder.

Right now, the only thing that works is

incoming-folders=incoming {develop}/home/develop/compute/incoming

Then I just do some Unix group ownership tricks to allow only the owner of
the file to modify it. However, this results in some strange messages and
weird behavior when opening the folder read-only, which I'd like to avoid
since it is confusing. Anyone have any ideas how I can do this and still
use IMAP?

------------------------------------- ,-,,-, __
| Elmar Kurgpold | ______/ /_,' |
| Network Administrator | \________________/
| University of Southern California | |<) (> |
| The Law Center | ( | oo |
| [email protected] | ) `| |--'
| (213)740-2571 FAX: (213)740-5502 | (___^^^^|
------------------------------------- (____'

On Fri, 3 Dec 1993, Terry Gray wrote:

> Isaias,
> "news.u.washington.edu" is only an example; it is not available to you
> for news access. You will need to find a news server (perhaps from
> your Internet provider) that you can use.
>
> Chances are you really do want to use nntp, since it is easier to find
> news servers that run nntp than those that run IMAPd and will let you
> have an account on them. (Unlike nntp, IMAPd uses a newsrc file on
> the same machine as the news database.)
>
> Remember that *for now* you must run another newsreader to initially
> create a suitable newsrc file. Once you have successfully read news via
> some other program, presumably using nntp, it should be easy to get Pine
> to do the same.
>
> -teg
>
> On Fri, 3 Dec 1993, Isaias Callejas Mancilla. wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 2 Dec 1993, David L Miller wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Henry,
> > >
> > > You need to specify the news server in your .pinerc file. Something like
> > >
> > > news-collections=*{server/nntp}[*]
> > >
> > > where "server" is the name of the NNTP server you want to use. You will
> > > also need a .newsrc file as generated by another newsreader like rrn or
> > > nn.
> > >
> > > --DLM
> > >
> > > |\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
> > > |/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
> > > University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
> > > 4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA
> > >
> > > On Thu, 2 Dec 1993, Henry Kuo wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi! Everyone:
> > > >
> > > > How can I read newsgroup by pine?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > `~~~~~~
> > > > @(0-0)
> > > > ---------oOO----^---OOo-------
> > > >
> > > > ^.^ Henry.........
> > > > ------------------------------
> > > >
> >
> > That's O.K..
> > In my ".pinerc" configuration file I have got it :
> >
> > # news-collections specifies one or more collections of news groups.
> > # News collection syntax: optnl-label *{news-host/protocol}[]
> > # Examples:
> > # news-collections=News *[] <-- if your login host carries news
> > # news-collections=Subscribed-Groups *{news.u.washington.edu/nntp}[]
> > news-collections=News *{news.u.washington.edu/imapd}[]
> > ^
> > I haven't nntp yet...then type "imapd"--------|
> >
> > When PINE show me the folder's screen, exist a line about remote
> > conection :
> >
> > " [ Select Here to See Expanded List ]"
> >
> > Then I press <return> on it and PINE connect to news.u.washington.edu, but
> > ask me for a "login" and "password"....
> > I don't know what type!!!
> >
> > Pardon if is it obvious... but I don't know what type...or
> > news.u.washington.edu is not a server for "news"???
> >
> > Than's in advance... :(
> >
> > /####### E. Isaias Callejas M.
> > /# /############ Group System Managers from Microvax 3400 System
> > /## /############## Coordination of Computing Services
> > ### /## ### Academic Computing
> > ### ### ### National University of Mexico
> > ### ########## ###
> > ### ### ### =================================================
> > ### ##/ ###
> > ##############/ ##/ Internet : [email protected]
> > ############/ #/ Bitnet : [email protected]
> > #######/
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

From [email protected] Thu Jan 20 17:20:59 1994
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Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 20:03:14 -0500 (EST)
From: Dan Schlitt <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Verbosity and Obscurity
To: Andy Behrens <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine User Group <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.07.9401201638.E12184-a100000@janus>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

It seems to me that you asking for problems which will require
considerable programing to protect against when you let these strings be
configurable in the rc file. Is the added complexity really worth it?

/dan

Dan Schlitt School of Engineering Computer Systems
[email protected] City College of New York
(212)650-6760 New York, NY 10031

From [email protected] Thu Jan 20 18:04:58 1994
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Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 18:01:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Sharon Deng <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Verbosity and Obscurity
To: Steve Hubert <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Thu, 20 Jan 1994, Steve Hubert wrote:

> You people are no fun at all!
>
> Spice up your day with a little uncertainty!
> Steve Hubert <[email protected]>
> Networks and Distributed Computing, Univ. of Washington, Seattle
>

I agree, why should we so serious about what it said on the message
after a long day work. Honestly, I never pay any attention to those
message until this big discussion. But if I have to vote one way or
other, I would say the colon is the best idea. Clear and Simple!

Sharon Deng
Assistant Director Internet: [email protected]
Academic Computer Center [email protected]
University of Redlands Phone: (909)793-2121 x.4963

From [email protected] Thu Jan 20 18:10:23 1994
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Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 20:55:27 -0500 (EST)
From: Ron Pool <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Verbosity and Obscurity
To: Pine Mailing List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Thu, 20 Jan 1994, Matt Simmons wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Jan 1994, John Stumbles wrote:
> > Suggestion:
> > .pinerc/PINERC:
> > # You can specify up to 12 set of strings to be used in announcing new mail,
> > # to be displayed at random - if only one string is specified only that set
> > # of strings will we used. The new-mail-from string comes at the beginning
> > # of the line, then the sender's name, the -subject-string and the subject
> > # e.g. New mail! from: Arthur Dent - Subject: A nice hot cup of tea
> > new-mail-from-string0='New mail! From: '
> > new-mail-subject-string0=' - Subject: '
..
> This sounds like a good one... It's got my vote..

Please don't add anything like that. I'd much prefer to see the existing
random strings removed and have a single terse, informative message
instead. I'd get much more pleasure out of having a simpler, smaller
pinerc file and associated code for reading and handling it than out of
having random strings.
--
Ron Pool; Electronic Technology Group; B-15 Wing Hall; Ithaca, NY 14853
Internet: [email protected]

From [email protected] Thu Jan 20 19:26:33 1994
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Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 21:15:07 -0600 (CST)
From: Matt Simmons <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Verbosity and Obscurity
To: Ron Pool <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Mailing List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Thu, 20 Jan 1994, Ron Pool wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Jan 1994, Matt Simmons wrote:
> > On Thu, 20 Jan 1994, John Stumbles wrote:
> > > Suggestion:
> > > .pinerc/PINERC:
> > > # You can specify up to 12 set of strings to be used in announcing new mail,
> > > # to be displayed at random - if only one string is specified only that set
> > > # of strings will we used. The new-mail-from string comes at the beginning
> > > # of the line, then the sender's name, the -subject-string and the subject
> > > # e.g. New mail! from: Arthur Dent - Subject: A nice hot cup of tea
> > > new-mail-from-string0='New mail! From: '
> > > new-mail-subject-string0=' - Subject: '
> > This sounds like a good one... It's got my vote..
> Please don't add anything like that. I'd much prefer to see the existing
> random strings removed and have a single terse, informative message
> instead. I'd get much more pleasure out of having a simpler, smaller
> .pinerc file and associated code for reading and handling it than out of
> having random strings.
How would you feel about having a #define in the Makefile which would
switch between the original 12 random strings and your bor^H^H^Hproposed
colon?

Devoted _n______________________________________________ _________________
Teri / \|[]|"" \ |[]| |[]| |[]| |[]| / || \ |[]| |[]|
Polo ,(_____| |()_()\___| |___| |___| |___| |___/ || \___| |___| |
Fan <_______|__|_(_)_____|__|___|__|___|__|___|__|______||______|__|___|__|
=========\ Walt Disney World Monorail System ||
LCA _____\________________________________________________||_________________
__/ This highway's in perfect shape. Quick! Thank god I'm not a
_/ Break it so we can 'fix' it! -- IDOT Motto F. I. P. =)

From [email protected] Thu Jan 20 20:16:16 1994
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Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 12:03:05 +1100 (EST)
From: Charlie Brady <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Verbosity and Obscurity
To: Matt Simmons <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Mailing List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9401211228.E19077-0100000@sydte3>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Thu, 20 Jan 1994, Matt Simmons wrote:

> something #defined at compile time) so those of us who like the 12
> messages can still have them?

How about 11? :-)

Charlie Brady * (W) [email protected] * (H) [email protected]
"Make it as simple as possible - | Tel: (02) 413 6838 ____Telectronics__| /\__
but no simpler" Einstein, A | Fax: (02) 413 6868 Pacing Systems \/

From [email protected] Thu Jan 20 22:58:50 1994
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Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 22:52:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Read only folders for some, read-write for others
To: Elmar Kurgpold <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9401201633.A20433-0100000@hal>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Elmar,
There shouldn't be any problem providing shared RO access to a folder via
IMAP, but I don't know of any way to suppress the messages that warn the
user that access is Read-Only.

Could you be more specific about the "wierd behavior" you referred to?

-teg

On Thu, 20 Jan 1994, Elmar Kurgpold wrote:

> I've been trying to setup a folder that many people could open up with
> read-only access, and one designated person could read and write. I tried
> some variations on the methods in the attached message below, but couldn't
> get anything to work with IMAP. By the way, I want this folder to be
> treated as an incoming folder.
>
> Right now, the only thing that works is
>
> incoming-folders=incoming {develop}/home/develop/compute/incoming
>
> Then I just do some Unix group ownership tricks to allow only the owner of
> the file to modify it. However, this results in some strange messages and
> weird behavior when opening the folder read-only, which I'd like to avoid
> since it is confusing. Anyone have any ideas how I can do this and still
> use IMAP?

From [email protected] Thu Jan 20 23:09:33 1994
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Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 08:55:49 +0200
From: Kari Sutela <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Using ^^ to mark lines
To: Eddie Leonardi <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine-info <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 17 Jan 1994, Eddie Leonardi wrote:

> I have recently started to use Pine 3.89 and am having problems using
> the mark text command "^^".

I'm not sure if this is a problem with my terminal emulation program but
using ^^-key as the mark command is rather hard on finnish keyboards.
On finnish keyboards the ^-key is a "dead" accent key: it isn't complete
until it's followed by another key (the key to be accented with the
"hat").

Unfortunately, pressing control and the key with the "^" cap on my
terminal does not produce a control-^. To get a ^^ I must hit
control-shift-6! I had no problems finding this out as I know the US
keyboard layout well but for persons who have never seen a US keyboard
(and probably never will) this is very peculiar as the shift-6 normally
produces an ampersand (&) on finnish keyboards.

Oh well, it's probably too late to change anything. I only wish that the
special keys were configurable to some extent.

/KS

From [email protected] Fri Jan 21 02:29:37 1994
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Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 09:56:43 +0000 (GMT)
From: David Brownlee <[email protected]>
Subject: New mail notification -> colon
To: Pine-Info Maillist <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9401210908.A28449-0100000@Victoria>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Another vote for just a colon separator!

[email protected]. Network Analyst. Postmaster. Hostmaster.
<_.-^-._> Telephone: (+44) 71 477 8000 Ext:3757. <_.-^-._>
Snailmail:E308, City University, Northampton Sq, Islington, London EC1V 0HB.

From [email protected] Fri Jan 21 05:49:31 1994
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Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 14:26:10 +0000
From: Alan Robert Clark <[email protected]>
Subject: ispell and pine
To: "Pine-info mailing list." <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9401211401.A13930-0100000@YingTongDiddleIPo.ee.wits.ac.za>
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Surely a FAQ..... How do I get pine to speak to ispell ??

Alan Robert Clark, Pr Eng Computational Electromagnetics
Dept Elec Eng Wits University
P.O.Wits ``Bugs are later known as features''
2050 South Africa Ps 110:11; Ps 37/150
Fax (+27 11)403-1929 [email protected](Pref)
Tel (+27 11)716-5404(24hr) or [email protected]
***Linux 0.99pl13 - the choice of a GNU generation.***

From [email protected] Fri Jan 21 06:03:41 1994
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Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 08:42:46 -0500 (EST)
From: Jamie Wyatt <[email protected]>
Subject: Pine and E-Mail account only
To: Pine Info <[email protected]>
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Are there any options in the .prinerc file or compile flags that can be
set to make pine/pico appropriate for a captive e-mail account only?
Basically I want to keep e-mail only users from being able to leave their
home directory via the ^T to files type stuff.
Even though I use the restricted shell pine/pico still allows them to
move about.

Just thought I would ask before I go start digging through the
code.

Thanks
Jamie

------------------------------------------------------
Jamie Wyatt
Network and Systems Administrator
Dept. of Computer Science, Brock University
St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada, L2S 3A1
[email protected]

From [email protected] Fri Jan 21 06:30:38 1994
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From: Ken Schriner <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Verbosity and Obscurity
To: [email protected]
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I'd like to cast my vote in the "who cares" pool. I never even noticed
it until this group started talking about it. Consistent user
interface? A very noble goal. But we never see it in life.

What's shaking, how you doing, good morning, you're a sight for sore
eyes, what's happening. All good greetings.

I say work on something more important (anything is.)

Ken Schriner ks06054@uafsysb
University of Arkansas [email protected]

From [email protected] Fri Jan 21 07:04:32 1994
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Subject: Re: Pine and E-Mail account only
To: [email protected] (Jamie Wyatt)
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 14:54:57 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]> from "Jamie Wyatt" at Jan 21, 94 08:42:46 am
From: [email protected] (Kate M Jeary)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21]
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Which particular restricted shell are you talking about? We operate with
a restricted shell developed in perl locally. We have also restricted the
use of certain options within Pine (such as the alternative-editor-command
and the personal print command) on a system-wide basis since these are the
major holes through which our users attempt to escape.

We run Pine 3.89 under SunOs 4.1.3 (unix) on two 10/51s with a telnet
interface on one machine, and imap/pop access on the other.

If this is of interest to you, then surely you are welcome to the sum of
our shared experience...

Jamie Wyatt
>
> Are there any options in the .prinerc file or compile flags that can be
> set to make pine/pico appropriate for a captive e-mail account only?
> Basically I want to keep e-mail only users from being able to leave their
> home directory via the ^T to files type stuff.
> Even though I use the restricted shell pine/pico still allows them to
> move about.
>
> Just thought I would ask before I go start digging through the
> code.
>
> Thanks
> Jamie
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Jamie Wyatt
> Network and Systems Administrator
> Dept. of Computer Science, Brock University
> St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada, L2S 3A1
> [email protected]
>
>
>
>
>

--
Internet: [email protected] University Computing Service,
JANET: [email protected] Computer Laboratory, Pembroke St,
Phone: +44 223 334447 Cambridge CB2 3QG, England.

From [email protected] Fri Jan 21 07:12:07 1994
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Subject: Re: Pine and E-Mail account only
From: Billy Barron <[email protected]>
To: [email protected] (Jamie Wyatt)
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 08:54:40 -0600
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]> from "Jamie Wyatt" at Jan 21, 94 07:42:46 am
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In reply to Jamie Wyatt's message:
>
>Are there any options in the .prinerc file or compile flags that can be
>set to make pine/pico appropriate for a captive e-mail account only?
>Basically I want to keep e-mail only users from being able to leave their
>home directory via the ^T to files type stuff.
>Even though I use the restricted shell pine/pico still allows them to
>move about.
>
What we do here is to log them into a chroot environment that only
has absolutely what that user needs to operate. Everything except
their directory, tmp, and /var/spool is mounted read-only. If they
do look around, all they won't see any other user's files anyway.
We run from a menu instead of a shell however.

--
Billy Barron, Network Services Manager, Univ of Texas at Dallas
[email protected]

From [email protected] Fri Jan 21 09:22:43 1994
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Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 09:05:06 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: ispell and pine
To: Alan Robert Clark <[email protected]>
Cc: "Pine-info mailing list." <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9401211401.A13930-0100000@YingTongDiddleIPo.ee.wits.ac.za>
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Alan,

The simple way to do this is to do this is to set your alternate-editor
to ispell, then '^_' in the composer magically becomes ispell.

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Fri, 21 Jan 1994, Alan Robert Clark wrote:

> Surely a FAQ..... How do I get pine to speak to ispell ??
>
> Alan Robert Clark, Pr Eng Computational Electromagnetics
> Dept Elec Eng Wits University
> P.O.Wits ``Bugs are later known as features''
> 2050 South Africa Ps 110:11; Ps 37/150
> Fax (+27 11)403-1929 [email protected](Pref)
> Tel (+27 11)716-5404(24hr) or [email protected]
> ***Linux 0.99pl13 - the choice of a GNU generation.***
>

From [email protected] Fri Jan 21 10:01:25 1994
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Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 12:46:06 +0000
From: Mike Grupenhoff <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: ispell and pine
To: Alan Robert Clark <[email protected]>
Cc: "Pine-info mailing list." <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9401211401.A13930-0100000@YingTongDiddleIPo.ee.wits.ac.za>
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On Fri, 21 Jan 1994, Alan Robert Clark wrote:

> Surely a FAQ..... How do I get pine to speak to ispell ??

I'm not sure this is the correct way, but I just created the following
script and named it "spell."

#!/bin/sh
ispell -l | sort | uniq

It pretty much mimics spell's behavior. Of course, there's probably a
better way, but this has worked for me.

---
Mike Grupenhoff
[email protected]

From [email protected] Fri Jan 21 13:18:53 1994
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Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 12:29:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Elmar Kurgpold <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Elmar Kurgpold <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Read only folders for some, read-write for others
To: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
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Terry,

The first message is:

[-no folder- : Can't get write access to mailbox, access is readonly]

..and then:

[Folder "incoming" opened with 4 messages READONLY]

..accompanied by a beep. The second message seems to be delayed for a
moment, which is expected, but can be confusing for our intermediate
users. If I want ten people to open a given folder read-only as often as
once every five minutes, and one person to open it read-write, my little
system seems less than attractive.

If this is not the most efficient method, perhaps someone on the list can
put me on the path towards something better. Would an internal news
server be the answer? And would I still be able to control the access on
an individual? And would it be worth the time to try and fire up news
just for this purpose? Any answers and hints are welcome, send them to
[email protected].

Thanks,

Elmar

On Thu, 20 Jan 1994, Terry Gray wrote:

> Elmar,
> There shouldn't be any problem providing shared RO access to a folder via
> IMAP, but I don't know of any way to suppress the messages that warn the
> user that access is Read-Only.
>
> Could you be more specific about the "wierd behavior" you referred to?
>
> -teg
>
> On Thu, 20 Jan 1994, Elmar Kurgpold wrote:
>
> > I've been trying to setup a folder that many people could open up with
> > read-only access, and one designated person could read and write. I tried
> > some variations on the methods in the attached message below, but couldn't
> > get anything to work with IMAP. By the way, I want this folder to be
> > treated as an incoming folder.
> >
> > Right now, the only thing that works is
> >
> > incoming-folders=incoming {develop}/home/develop/compute/incoming
> >
> > Then I just do some Unix group ownership tricks to allow only the owner of
> > the file to modify it. However, this results in some strange messages and
> > weird behavior when opening the folder read-only, which I'd like to avoid
> > since it is confusing. Anyone have any ideas how I can do this and still
> > use IMAP?
>

From [email protected] Fri Jan 21 13:34:50 1994
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Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 15:21:48 -0600 (CST)
From: Chris Dunphy <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: ispell and pine
Cc: "Pine-info mailing list." <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9401211522.A6710-0100000@bigfoot>
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Hmmm. [email protected] does not seem to be a valid
email address.. That means, I have no idea how to unsubscribe without
bothering everybody's mailbox. Sorry...

Please remove me from the pine mailing lists. Not enough time anymore,
and the next major release seems far in the future.

Take care!

Chris Dunphy

From [email protected] Fri Jan 21 14:30:16 1994
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Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 14:15:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Mike Ramey <[email protected]>
Subject: Pine & ispell - alternate spell-checker.
To: Pine-Info Email List <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I hope the following is an accurate summary of the ways you can
use ispell with pine. Please correct as necessary.
I think we should have a pine FAQ, and this should go in it.
-mr

From: Alan Robert Clark <[email protected]>
> > Surely a FAQ..... How do I get pine to speak to ispell ??

From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
> The simple way to do this is to do this is to set your alternate-editor
> to ispell, then '^_' in the composer magically becomes ispell.

From: Mike Ramey <[email protected]>
- Set 'editor=/usr/local/bin/ispell' in your '.pinerc' file.
- See 'man ispell' for more information on the ispell program.

Now, when you press ^_ (^-) in pine, you will execute the 'ispell'
program in its native mode. Press "?" for help. Press "I" to
insert unknown words into the personal dictionary. You can still
press ^T to use the standard pine spell-checking program (which
will -not- use your personal dictionary).

From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Pine already checks the SPELL environment variable. I notice that someone
posted a shell script that allows ispell to be used like spell, ...

From: Mike Grupenhoff <[email protected]>
I'm not sure this is the correct way, but I just created the following
script and named it "spell."
#!/bin/sh
ispell -l | sort | uniq
It pretty much mimics spell's behavior. Of course, there's probably a
better way, but this has worked for me.

From: Mike Ramey <[email protected]>
To make ^T in pine use 'ispell' and your '$HOME/.ispell_words' dictionary:
- make the above script file 'spell' in your home directory
- make it executable: 'chmod u+x spell'
- set the environment variable SPELL: 'setenv SPELL $HOME/spell'
(you may include this command in your .cshrc or .login file)

Now, when you press ^T in pine, you will execute the 'ispell' program,
and it will recognize words stored in the private dictionary. The
screen display will look like pine is using the standard spell-checking
program. Unfortunately, this method does not allow the user to "I"nsert
words into the private dictionary. However, this might be useful with a
central script file (setenv SPELL ...) and a central private dictionary
(ispell -p ...) to provide a common private dictionary for an entire
workgroup. The manager could add items to the private dictionary;
ordinary pine users would use the private dictionary (^T), but they
could not change it.

=== end ===

From [email protected] Fri Jan 21 23:55:06 1994
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Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 23:41:59 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Read only folders for some, read-write for others
To: Elmar Kurgpold <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9401211232.A27823-0100000@hal>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Elmar,
If the first message was suppressed, would that meet your needs?

You can certainly build a pseudo-newsgroup, but updating it is not quite
as convenient as just using a simple mailbox format.

The question of when/how to display ReadOnly-ness is non-trivial, since
there are several degrees of ReadOnly-ness. (For example, newsgroups are
not completely read-only because you can set one flag (D) that gets saved
in your .newsrc. In the future there will be other variations on this
theme as well.)

-teg

On Fri, 21 Jan 1994, Elmar Kurgpold wrote:

> Terry,
>
> The first message is:
>
> [-no folder- : Can't get write access to mailbox, access is readonly]
>
> ...and then:
>
> [Folder "incoming" opened with 4 messages READONLY]
>
> ...accompanied by a beep. The second message seems to be delayed for a
> moment, which is expected, but can be confusing for our intermediate
> users. If I want ten people to open a given folder read-only as often as
> once every five minutes, and one person to open it read-write, my little
> system seems less than attractive.
>
> If this is not the most efficient method, perhaps someone on the list can
> put me on the path towards something better. Would an internal news
> server be the answer? And would I still be able to control the access on
> an individual? And would it be worth the time to try and fire up news
> just for this purpose? Any answers and hints are welcome, send them to
> [email protected].
>
> Thanks,
>
> Elmar
>
>
> On Thu, 20 Jan 1994, Terry Gray wrote:
>
> > Elmar,
> > There shouldn't be any problem providing shared RO access to a folder via
> > IMAP, but I don't know of any way to suppress the messages that warn the
> > user that access is Read-Only.
> >
> > Could you be more specific about the "wierd behavior" you referred to?
> >
> > -teg
> >
> > On Thu, 20 Jan 1994, Elmar Kurgpold wrote:
> >
> > > I've been trying to setup a folder that many people could open up with
> > > read-only access, and one designated person could read and write. I tried
> > > some variations on the methods in the attached message below, but couldn't
> > > get anything to work with IMAP. By the way, I want this folder to be
> > > treated as an incoming folder.
> > >
> > > Right now, the only thing that works is
> > >
> > > incoming-folders=incoming {develop}/home/develop/compute/incoming
> > >
> > > Then I just do some Unix group ownership tricks to allow only the owner of
> > > the file to modify it. However, this results in some strange messages and
> > > weird behavior when opening the folder read-only, which I'd like to avoid
> > > since it is confusing. Anyone have any ideas how I can do this and still
> > > use IMAP?
> >
>
>
>

From [email protected] Sat Jan 22 13:44:40 1994
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From: Mike Ramey <[email protected]>
Subject: Use ispell as standard speller, with modified commands?
To: Pine-Info Email List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Pine folks: Please consider implementing ispell as the standard
spell-checker in pine, and provide modified ispell commands
which can be used when a misspelled word is presented, such as:
<enter> accept the word for the entire file (no change)
<arrows...><enter> accept -modified- word for entire file (no change?)
^I accept the word and insert it in the private dictionary
<arrows...>^I accept the -modified- word and insert in dictionary
^R replace entire word; clear edit field, cursor in col 1
^Snn<enter> substitute one of the suggested words from the list
(clear the edit field, like ^R, and show:
"Replace with word number: __"
^C abort spell checking (no change)
Retain '$HOME/.ispell-words' as the private dictionary file for
compatibility with standard ispell.
Thanks, -mr

From [email protected] Sun Jan 23 13:03:26 1994
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Date: Sun, 23 Jan 1994 18:08:29 +0100 (MET)
From: Klaus Zeuge <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Klaus Zeuge <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Read only folders for some, read-write for others
To: Elmar Kurgpold <[email protected]>
Cc: Terry Gray <[email protected]>, [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9401211232.A27823-0100000@hal>
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On Fri, 21 Jan 1994, Elmar Kurgpold wrote:

> ...accompanied by a beep. The second message seems to be delayed for a
> moment, which is expected, but can be confusing for our intermediate

I think the handling of error messages in Pine is pretty bad. It seems to
me, whenever Pine wants to display an error message, it puts the message
on an internal queue. The messages on the queue are displayed one at a
time, with a pause between them. During this, the user can go around
doing other things, making more error or no errors at all. The messages
keep being displayed. Very annoying, especially as a displayed message
has nothing at all to do with what the user has done in the last couple
of seconds.

A simple way to demonstrate this, is to start Pine without -z, ie not
suspendable, and then pressing CNTRL/Z some ten times. After that, start
reading mail, composing mail, whatever.

Is this a bug in the implementation of UNIX/Pine 3.89?

From [email protected] Sun Jan 23 16:05:27 1994
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Date: Sun, 23 Jan 1994 15:47:04 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Read only folders for some, read-write for others
To: Klaus Zeuge <[email protected]>
Cc: Elmar Kurgpold <[email protected]>, [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
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Klaus,
We agree.

The fact that Pine displays some messages after they are no longer relevant,
thus causing confusion, is definitely a known bug, and it is definitely on
the list of things we want to improve this year. (As usual, I can't predict
exactly when.)

-teg

On Sun, 23 Jan 1994, Klaus Zeuge wrote:

> On Fri, 21 Jan 1994, Elmar Kurgpold wrote:
>
> > ...accompanied by a beep. The second message seems to be delayed for a
> > moment, which is expected, but can be confusing for our intermediate
>
> I think the handling of error messages in Pine is pretty bad. It seems to
> me, whenever Pine wants to display an error message, it puts the message
> on an internal queue. The messages on the queue are displayed one at a
> time, with a pause between them. During this, the user can go around
> doing other things, making more error or no errors at all. The messages
> keep being displayed. Very annoying, especially as a displayed message
> has nothing at all to do with what the user has done in the last couple
> of seconds.
>
> A simple way to demonstrate this, is to start Pine without -z, ie not
> suspendable, and then pressing CNTRL/Z some ten times. After that, start
> reading mail, composing mail, whatever.
>
> Is this a bug in the implementation of UNIX/Pine 3.89?
>
>
>
>
>

From [email protected] Sun Jan 23 18:54:15 1994
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Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 11:36:53 +1100 (EST)
From: Charlie Brady <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Use ispell as standard speller, with modified commands?
To: Mike Ramey <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine-Info Email List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9401241124.A1245-0100000@sydte3>
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On Sat, 22 Jan 1994, Mike Ramey wrote:

> Pine folks: Please consider implementing ispell as the standard
> spell-checker in pine, and provide modified ispell commands ...

Sounds good to me.

Charlie Brady * (W) [email protected] * (H) [email protected]
"Make it as simple as possible - | Tel: (02) 413 6838 ____Telectronics__| /\__
but no simpler" Einstein, A | Fax: (02) 413 6868 Pacing Systems \/

From [email protected] Sun Jan 23 21:12:31 1994
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Date: Sun, 23 Jan 1994 22:59:11 -0600 (CST)
From: Richard Lee <[email protected]>
Subject: Another place for ^C
To: [email protected]
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Sometimes ^C would be welcome where it is not available. I was
reading a letter in my inbox and wanted to print it. I don't often do
that, so I forgot what letter of the alphabet is used to print mail this
week. I remembered it wasn't "P". So I tried "L." Naturally I got into
a screen allowing me to change folders. I didn't want to be there. I
wanted to return to what I was. But no, ^C wouldn't let me do that. I
had to return to the main menu, go from there to the index, then down to
the message I was reading, then read that. A simple ^C would have been
easier.

--

Dr. Richard Lee [email protected]
Department of Philosophy Old Main 318 [email protected]
University of Arkansas phone: 501-575-5826
Fayetteville, AR 72701

From [email protected] Mon Jan 24 00:39:18 1994
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Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 10:09:48 +0000
From: Alan Robert Clark <[email protected]>
Subject: 3.89 broken arrow keys in composer?
To: "Pine-info mailing list." <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9401241012.B29570-0100000@YingTongDiddleIPo.ee.wits.ac.za>
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Hi All,
I have just downloaded 3.89 and I have encountered a problem with the
arrow keys that I did not have in 3.05. [C[C[D[D[A

(if you see what I mean) the arrrow keys splurge their escape sequences
all over the text, and dont move the cursor. As I downloaded the linux
binary, is this simply broken, or is it a bug introduced in the new pine?

Alan Robert Clark, Pr Eng Computational Electromagnetics
Dept Elec Eng Wits University
P.O.Wits ``Bugs are later known as features''
2050 South Africa Ps 110:11; Ps 37/150
Fax (+27 11)403-1929 [email protected](Pref)
Tel (+27 11)716-5404(24hr) or [email protected]
***Linux 0.99pl13 - the choice of a GNU generation.***

From [email protected] Mon Jan 24 01:13:57 1994
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Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 08:51:15 +0000 (GMT)
From: Mike Brudenell <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Use ispell as standard speller, with modified commands?
To: Pine-Info Email List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9401241124.A1245-0100000@sydte3>
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..As long as people who don't use ispell aren't overlooked!

There is something positive to be said for using a "standard utility"
that is present on virtually every UNIX system under the sun as against
some optional software that MAY have been installed.

Mike Brudenell

On Mon, 24 Jan 1994, Charlie Brady wrote:

>
> On Sat, 22 Jan 1994, Mike Ramey wrote:
>
> > Pine folks: Please consider implementing ispell as the standard
> > spell-checker in pine, and provide modified ispell commands ...
>
> Sounds good to me.

From [email protected] Mon Jan 24 04:43:09 1994
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Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 12:20:26 +0000 (GMT)
From: Dave King <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Dave King <[email protected]>
Subject: Pine Options Screen(s)
To: Pine Information <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
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Options screen
--------------
Perhaps when Pine is released with Options screen(s) in place, it could
include twelve "mail notification" prefix messages so that:

1. users who prefer variety could enter twelve individual messages.
2. those who like consistency could repeat the same text 12 times.
3. those who have no preference could have 12 default messages.

For novice users, editing .pinerc can be very confusing with lots of '{}'
, '[]' and '/' characters and sometimes cryptic syntax, etc. Options
screen(s) will dramatically improve Pine's ease of configuration, and
could include further checks for curly brace matching / news & imap
syntax, etc.

Could someone in the Pine team please give an idea of when the options
screen(s) are likely to be available?

Thanks,

Dave

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave King, Admin. Computing Services Manager, University of Bristol
[email protected] (JANET) [email protected] (INTERNET)

From [email protected] Mon Jan 24 05:40:37 1994
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Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 13:16:32 +0000 (GMT)
From: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine Options Screen(s)
To: Dave King <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Information <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 24 Jan 1994, Dave King wrote:

> Options screen
> --------------
> 1. users who prefer variety could enter twelve individual messages.
> 2. those who like consistency could repeat the same text 12 times.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Dave - you forgot to say 8^) after that! ;-)

John Stumbles [email protected]
Reading University 0734 318435
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

From [email protected] Mon Jan 24 06:16:35 1994
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Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 06:01:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Mike Ramey <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Mike Ramey <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Use ispell as standard speller, with modified commands?
To: Pine-Info Email List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.87.9401240815.A4654-0100000@unix>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Well, maybe I'm the computer illiterate; I didn't realize that 'ispell' is
not available on every unix system. It certainly would be helpful if
users could add words to the spell-check dictionary. I get tired of being
told that weekday abbreviations are spelled wrong, and my last name, and
'diskette',
'telnet',
'email'(!), etc.
I can see the advantage of using a standard unix utility (spell). Is
'ispell' hard to obtain & install? Is it worth building 'ispell' hooks
into pine?
In the meantime ... If ispell is installed on your system, andif you
want to use it (so you can add words to the spelling dictionary), follow
the detailed instructions in my earlier summary message describing how to:
(1) use ispell in native mode (via the ^_ key), and (2) use ispell in pine
mode (via the ^T key and an executable script file). If you missed that
message, let me know and I will send or repost it. If you have any
corrections to that message, please let me know. Thanks to all who
explained the details of ispell. I like it!

P.S.: In spell-checking this message (using 'spell' via ^T key),
I discovered the following anomaly:
- the following 1 line produces 3 spelling errors:
and 'diskette', 'telnet', 'email'(!), etc.
- the following 3 lines produce -no- spelling errors:
'diskette',
'telnet',
'email'(!), etc.
BUT WAIT ... If you spell check this message just as it is before you,
the three errors (email, diskette, telnet) will be reported in the list
at the top of the message, BUT ... if you remove this P.S. and run the
spell-check again, NO ERRORS will be reported! SO ... the errors are
being -found- in the sentence:
.. and 'diskette', 'telnet', 'email'(!), etc.
but the errors are being -reported- at the first occurrence of the words
in the message (the list at the top). Very strange! What's up?
When I checked the spelling using ispell native mode (via the ^_ key),
the three words (email, diskette, telnet) were -always- reported; but once
I add them to my private dictionary, I'll never see them again. AND ...
ispell even told me that 'occurrance' should be spelled 'occurrence' and
allows me to make the replacement by pressing just one key!
I like ispell. -mr
------------------------

From: Norman Friedman <[email protected]>
Please explain the "ispell" to us computer illiterates who use Pine
because it is so simple. Thanks, Norm

From: Henry Kuo <[email protected]>
Where can I get ispell?

From: Mike Brudenell <[email protected]>
..As long as people who don't use ispell aren't overlooked!
There is something positive to be said for using a "standard utility"
that is present on virtually every UNIX system under the sun as against
some optional software that MAY have been installed. Mike Brudenell
===

From [email protected] Mon Jan 24 06:16:46 1994
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Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 8:58:00 -0500 (EST)
From: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Subject: screen problem when I went to use ispell with Pine
To: [email protected]
X-Vmsmail-To: SMTP%"[email protected]"

A few months ago, when we started to promote Pine use heavily on campus, I
experimented with use of ispell instead of spell with Pine. It didn't work
as I expected ... or in an effective way. That is, ispell was invoked but
it looked as though Pine only expected to provide a line or two at the
bottom of the screen for spell checking (which is fine with spell), but
ispell wants to clear the screen and allow more display and interaction,
with the result that the screen cleared and a bunch of ispell info appeared
but I could not really interact with ispell at that point. This was while
running as a VT100 terminal, BTW. Was I overlooking something? Does
someone have this actually working? I can't remember every combination of
flags that I tried, but I did look at some of them that seemed to promise a
more limited ispell on-screen display.

Jim Cerny, Computing and Information Services, Univ. N.H.
[email protected]

From [email protected] Mon Jan 24 07:27:00 1994
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Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 06:37:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Mike Ramey <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: screen problem using ispell with Pine.
To: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 24 Jan 1994 [email protected] wrote:
> A few months ago, when we started to promote Pine use heavily on campus, I
> experimented with use of ispell instead of spell with Pine. It didn't work
> as I expected ... or in an effective way. ...
> Does someone have this actually working?

The following works for me. I prefer native mode (via the ^_ key).
It allows me to use all the features of ispell. Good luck! -mr
---------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 14:15:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Mike Ramey <[email protected]>
To: Pine-Info Email List <pine-info@cac>
Subject: Pine & ispell - alternate spell-checker.

I hope the following is an accurate summary of the ways you can
use ispell with pine. Please correct as necessary.
I think we should have a pine FAQ, and this should go in it.
-mr

From: Alan Robert Clark <[email protected]>
> > Surely a FAQ..... How do I get pine to speak to ispell ??

From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
> The simple way to do this is to do this is to set your alternate-editor
> to ispell, then '^_' in the composer magically becomes ispell.

From: Mike Ramey <[email protected]>
- Set 'editor=/usr/local/bin/ispell' in your '.pinerc' file.
- See 'man ispell' for more information on the ispell program.

Now, when you press ^_ (^-) in pine, you will execute the 'ispell'
program in its native mode. Press "?" for help. Press "I" to
insert unknown words into the personal dictionary. You can still
press ^T to use the standard pine spell-checking program (which
will -not- use your personal dictionary).

From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Pine already checks the SPELL environment variable. I notice that someone
posted a shell script that allows ispell to be used like spell, ...

From: Mike Grupenhoff <[email protected]>
I'm not sure this is the correct way, but I just created the following
script and named it "spell."
#!/bin/sh
ispell -l | sort | uniq
It pretty much mimics spell's behavior. Of course, there's probably a
better way, but this has worked for me.

From: Mike Ramey <[email protected]>
To make ^T in pine use 'ispell' and your '$HOME/.ispell_words' dictionary:
- make the above script file 'spell' in your home directory
- make it executable: 'chmod u+x spell'
- set the environment variable SPELL: 'setenv SPELL $HOME/spell'
(you may include this command in your .cshrc or .login file)

Now, when you press ^T in pine, you will execute the 'ispell' program,
and it will recognize words stored in the private dictionary. The
screen display will look like pine is using the standard spell-checking
program. Unfortunately, this method does not allow the user to "I"nsert
words into the private dictionary. However, this might be useful with a
central script file (setenv SPELL ...) and a central private dictionary
(ispell -p ...) to provide a common private dictionary for an entire
workgroup. The manager could add items to the private dictionary;
ordinary pine users would use the private dictionary (^T), but they
could not change it.

=== end ===

From [email protected] Mon Jan 24 07:29:51 1994
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Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 09:15:37 -0600 (CST)
From: Richard Lee <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Use ispell as standard speller, with modified commands?
To: Mike Ramey <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine-Info Email List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 24 Jan 1994, Mike Ramey wrote:

> Well, maybe I'm the computer illiterate; I didn't realize that 'ispell' is
> not available on every unix system. It certainly would be helpful if
> users could add words to the spell-check dictionary. I get tired of being
> told that weekday abbreviations are spelled wrong, and my last name, and
> 'diskette',
> 'telnet',
> 'email'(!), etc.

> I can see the advantage of using a standard unix utility (spell). Is
> 'ispell' hard to obtain & install? Is it worth building 'ispell' hooks
> into pine?

Ah, but you CAN add words with the standard spell. I do. I have
a file called "mydic" (no jokes please) with the words I want added, then
in my .profile (or whatever your shell requires) I have the lines:

SPELL="spell +mydic"
export SPELL

This then causes spell whenever it runs to use "mydic" as a supplemental
dictionary. (You should be able to do this with an alias too.)

I don't know ispell, so maybe there are other advantages to that,
but if having a customizable dictionary is what you are looking for, you
don't have to look that far.

--

Dr. Richard Lee [email protected]
Department of Philosophy Old Main 318 [email protected]
University of Arkansas phone: 501-575-5826
Fayetteville, AR 72701

From [email protected] Mon Jan 24 07:40:29 1994
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Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 07:28:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Mike Ramey <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Use ispell as standard speller, with modified commands?
To: Richard Lee <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine-Info Email List <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 24 Jan 1994, Richard Lee wrote:
> Ah, but you CAN add words with the standard spell. I do. I have
> a file called "mydic" (no jokes please) with the words I want added, then
> in my .profile (or whatever your shell requires) I have the lines:
> SPELL="spell +mydic"
> export SPELL
> This then causes spell whenever it runs to use "mydic" as a supplemental
> dictionary. (You should be able to do this with an alias too.)
> I don't know ispell, so maybe there are other advantages to that,
> but if having a customizable dictionary is what you are looking for, you
> don't have to look that far.

The ispell program allows insertion of unknown words into the dictionary
-during- spell checking (press the "I" key); it also offers suggested
correct spellings when it discovers an unknown word (select a replacement
by pressing a number key). Try it if it's on your system. -mr

From [email protected] Mon Jan 24 07:52:57 1994
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Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 07:41:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Mike Ramey <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Use ispell with -pico- ?
To: Pine-Info Email List <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 24 Jan 1994, Gregory J. Atchity wrote:
> I just started using Pine last week, and am very interested in seeing your
> instructions. I've never used Emacs, and have no interest in using Emacs,
> but you have been able to coerce Ispell to work with the Pico editor I'd
> LOVE to use it.

Everything I've seen so far relates to using ispell with pine, not pico.
I just tried the ^_ key in pico, and it is an 'unknown command'.
Pine-folks: Is ^_ (alternate composer) supported in -pico-?
Is there a .picorc file? Should there be?
How can we get ispell (native mode!) to work in -pico-?
-mr

From [email protected] Mon Jan 24 09:49:15 1994
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Date: Mon, 24 Jan 94 08:24:51 EST
From: Bill Williams <[email protected]>
Organization: East Tennessee State University
Subject: Re: Use ispell as standard speller, with modified commands?
To: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 24 Jan 1994 11:36:53 +1100 (EST) from
<[email protected]>
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 09:29:38 -0800 (PST)
Resent-From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Resent-Subject:
Resent-To: [email protected]
Resent-Message-Id: <[email protected]>

On Mon, 24 Jan 1994 11:36:53 +1100 (EST) Charlie Brady said:
>On Sat, 22 Jan 1994, Mike Ramey wrote:
>> Pine folks: Please consider implementing ispell as the standard
>> spell-checker in pine, and provide modified ispell commands ...
>Sounds good to me.

Ahhh... before y'awl do that little thing, be sure 'ispell' is a
standard speller available for/on any pine (unix/aix) platform.

Having said that, what is 'ispell'? Where do I get it? Will it run on
aix?

---------------------------------------
Bill Williams -- ETSU Systems Support
East
Tennessee (615) 929-6853
State <[email protected]>
University <[email protected]>

From [email protected] Mon Jan 24 09:53:07 1994
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Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 09:38:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Elmar Kurgpold <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Read only folders for some, read-write for others
To: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Cc: Klaus Zeuge <[email protected]>, [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
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On Sun, 23 Jan 1994, Terry Gray wrote:

> Klaus,
> We agree.
>
> The fact that Pine displays some messages after they are no longer relevant,
> thus causing confusion, is definitely a known bug, and it is definitely on
> the list of things we want to improve this year. (As usual, I can't predict
> exactly when.)
>
> -teg
>
> On Sun, 23 Jan 1994, Klaus Zeuge wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 21 Jan 1994, Elmar Kurgpold wrote:
> >
> > > ...accompanied by a beep. The second message seems to be delayed for a
> > > moment, which is expected, but can be confusing for our intermediate
> >
> > I think the handling of error messages in Pine is pretty bad. It seems to
> > me, whenever Pine wants to display an error message, it puts the message
> > on an internal queue. The messages on the queue are displayed one at a
> > time, with a pause between them. During this, the user can go around
> > doing other things, making more error or no errors at all. The messages
> > keep being displayed. Very annoying, especially as a displayed message
> > has nothing at all to do with what the user has done in the last couple
> > of seconds.
> >
> > A simple way to demonstrate this, is to start Pine without -z, ie not
> > suspendable, and then pressing CNTRL/Z some ten times. After that, start
> > reading mail, composing mail, whatever.
> >
> > Is this a bug in the implementation of UNIX/Pine 3.89?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

From [email protected] Mon Jan 24 10:19:23 1994
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Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 09:53:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Elmar Kurgpold <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Elmar Kurgpold <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Read only folders for some, read-write for others
To: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
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(By the way, sorry for that previous message, when I realized I was
responding to the wrong one I hit control-X instead of control-C. Guess
my nerves are still a little rattled from the earthquake :-}

Terry,

If the first message were suppressed, I think that would be alright. But
really what I am most interested in is suppressing the beep. I'd prefer
my system not warn me (especially audibly) about something I fully
intended to do ("Psst, excuse me, did you know your fly is up?"). I think
it would be beneficial to have an option on an IMAP folder to specify
read-only, although I would agree that it may not be the most popular Wish
to be added to The List. I'm no programmer, but it seems that Pine can
figure out if a file is read-only for itself, it should be fairly easy to
tell it what to expect ahead of time ;-)

Elmar

On Fri, 21 Jan 1994, Terry Gray wrote:

> Elmar,
> If the first message was suppressed, would that meet your needs?
>
> You can certainly build a pseudo-newsgroup, but updating it is not quite
> as convenient as just using a simple mailbox format.
>
> The question of when/how to display ReadOnly-ness is non-trivial, since
> there are several degrees of ReadOnly-ness. (For example, newsgroups are
> not completely read-only because you can set one flag (D) that gets saved
> in your .newsrc. In the future there will be other variations on this
> theme as well.)
>
> -teg
>
> On Fri, 21 Jan 1994, Elmar Kurgpold wrote:
>
> > Terry,
> >
> > The first message is:
> >
> > [-no folder- : Can't get write access to mailbox, access is readonly]
> >
> > ...and then:
> >
> > [Folder "incoming" opened with 4 messages READONLY]
> >
> > ...accompanied by a beep. The second message seems to be delayed for a
> > moment, which is expected, but can be confusing for our intermediate
> > users. If I want ten people to open a given folder read-only as often as
> > once every five minutes, and one person to open it read-write, my little
> > system seems less than attractive.
> >
> > If this is not the most efficient method, perhaps someone on the list can
> > put me on the path towards something better. Would an internal news
> > server be the answer? And would I still be able to control the access on
> > an individual? And would it be worth the time to try and fire up news
> > just for this purpose? Any answers and hints are welcome, send them to
> > [email protected].
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Elmar
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 20 Jan 1994, Terry Gray wrote:
> >
> > > Elmar,
> > > There shouldn't be any problem providing shared RO access to a folder via
> > > IMAP, but I don't know of any way to suppress the messages that warn the
> > > user that access is Read-Only.
> > >
> > > Could you be more specific about the "wierd behavior" you referred to?
> > >
> > > -teg
> > >
> > > On Thu, 20 Jan 1994, Elmar Kurgpold wrote:
> > >
> > > > I've been trying to setup a folder that many people could open up with
> > > > read-only access, and one designated person could read and write. I tried
> > > > some variations on the methods in the attached message below, but couldn't
> > > > get anything to work with IMAP. By the way, I want this folder to be
> > > > treated as an incoming folder.
> > > >
> > > > Right now, the only thing that works is
> > > >
> > > > incoming-folders=incoming {develop}/home/develop/compute/incoming
> > > >
> > > > Then I just do some Unix group ownership tricks to allow only the owner of
> > > > the file to modify it. However, this results in some strange messages and
> > > > weird behavior when opening the folder read-only, which I'd like to avoid
> > > > since it is confusing. Anyone have any ideas how I can do this and still
> > > > use IMAP?
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

From [email protected] Mon Jan 24 10:45:57 1994
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Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 09:56:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Elmar Kurgpold <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Elmar Kurgpold <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Another place for ^C
To: Richard Lee <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9401232206.A14249-0100000@comp>
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I've also wanted a control-C to cancel out of folder selection. I realize
that the name of the folder I have open is at the top of the screen, but
if I didn't want to go to the folder list anyways it may take me a few
seconds to figure out where I am.

------------------------------------- ,-,,-, __
| Elmar Kurgpold | ______/ /_,' |
| Network Administrator | \________________/
| University of Southern California | |<) (> |
| The Law Center | ( | oo |
| [email protected] | ) `| |--'
| (213)740-2571 FAX: (213)740-5502 | (___^^^^|
------------------------------------- (____'

On Sun, 23 Jan 1994, Richard Lee wrote:

> Sometimes ^C would be welcome where it is not available. I was
> reading a letter in my inbox and wanted to print it. I don't often do
> that, so I forgot what letter of the alphabet is used to print mail this
> week. I remembered it wasn't "P". So I tried "L." Naturally I got into
> a screen allowing me to change folders. I didn't want to be there. I
> wanted to return to what I was. But no, ^C wouldn't let me do that. I
> had to return to the main menu, go from there to the index, then down to
> the message I was reading, then read that. A simple ^C would have been
> easier.
>
> --
>
> Dr. Richard Lee [email protected]
> Department of Philosophy Old Main 318 [email protected]
> University of Arkansas phone: 501-575-5826
> Fayetteville, AR 72701
>

From [email protected] Mon Jan 24 11:21:42 1994
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Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 18:58:30 GMT
From: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Subject: uNread flag on Saved messages
To: Pine User Group <[email protected]>
X-Sender: [email protected]
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I've just been tidying up my mailboxes, saving a lot of the mail which I
have read in other mailboxes, and then changing into another mailbox
shows the messages as unread! Is this a bug or a feature?

(Using PC Pine 3.89 with IMAP to access mailboxes)

John Stumbles [email protected]
Reading University 0734 318435
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

From [email protected] Mon Jan 24 13:19:08 1994
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Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 20:43:00 +0000 (GMT)
From: Barry Landy <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Barry Landy <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Verbosity and Obscurity
To: Ken Schriner <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Info List <[email protected]>
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I certainly agree about working on important things, but please remember
all the time that while this mail list no doubt contains a number of
computer freaks (sorry, experienced computer users :-)), users of PINE
(mine at any rate) are on average anything but; they include Poles,
Czecks, Italians, Nigerians, Ghanaians, CHinese, Japanese, and so on; some
have a hard time with English and all they want is ease of use, simplicity
of language, and predictability. So "nice features to stop something
being bor<del>,del><del> predictable" should definitely NOT appear on the work
list.
On the other hand, I would guess that cutting out the "produce a random
string" code would be the work of a moment.

There - that does feel better! :-)

On Fri, 21 Jan 1994, Ken Schriner wrote:

> I'd like to cast my vote in the "who cares" pool. I never even noticed
> it until this group started talking about it. Consistent user
> interface? A very noble goal. But we never see it in life.
>
> What's shaking, how you doing, good morning, you're a sight for sore
> eyes, what's happening. All good greetings.
>
> I say work on something more important (anything is.)
>
>
> Ken Schriner ks06054@uafsysb
> University of Arkansas [email protected]
>
>
>

=======================================================================
Barry Landy, Head of Systems and Development,
University of Cambridge Computing Service
[email protected] 0223-334713 +44-223-334713

From [email protected] Mon Jan 24 15:26:37 1994
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From: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: pine compile problem
To: [email protected]
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 15:09:51 -0800 (PST)
Cc: [email protected]
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21]
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 1773

Hi! Everyone:

I got a compile problem here. I tried to compile pine3.89 on AIX 2.2, but
it didn't work. Some one told me that I have to change cc to bsdcc in
order to compile the proram. Then I changed cc to bsdcc in the build
script. That made me have pico only and some warnings. Afterwards he
said I have to add the command of -D and change the compiler variables to
-D_NONSTD_TYPES and -D_NO_PROTO. What I should change in build script?

Thanks for your help.

Forwarded message:

> > > > > Try using the command bsdcc it relaxes the compiler. Or look in the file
> > > > > /etc/cc.cft for -D flags to use.
> > > > > IBM has used the HCR compiler exclusively for the 370/390 series
> > > > > machines for the past 5 or 6 years certanly since the devlopment of
> > > > > AIX/ESA began.
> > > > >
> > > > > Your problem comes from loose usage of types, and differences between the
> > > > > official (OSF/POSIX) deffinitions of some things and the other 'standard'
> > > > > definitions of same.
> > >
> > > Change the compiler specification to be bsdcc (from cc). -D is used to
> > > define things to the c compiler. Turning on ome of the flags disables
> > > some of the more strict type checking (there is type checking and type checking
> > > HCR compilers are notorious for being real picky).
>
> The -D command to the compiler is used to define various compiler variables,
> the ones that are of interest are:
> -D_NONSTD_TYPES
> Turns on some nonstandard typing
> -D_NO_PROTO
> Inhibits funcion prototyping from the system include files.
>
> In general it is very difficult to compile a complex program when you don't
> understand the compiler and system that your are working on. You should
> seek help from a knowledgable classmate.
>
>

From [email protected] Mon Jan 24 17:26:53 1994
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Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 20:24:18 +0000
From: Mike Grupenhoff <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Use ispell as standard speller, with modified commands?
To: Mike Ramey <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine-Info Email List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 24 Jan 1994, Mike Ramey wrote:

> P.S.: In spell-checking this message (using 'spell' via ^T key),
> I discovered the following anomaly:
> - the following 1 line produces 3 spelling errors:
> and 'diskette', 'telnet', 'email'(!), etc.
> - the following 3 lines produce -no- spelling errors:
> 'diskette',
> 'telnet',
> 'email'(!), etc.

I think this is because spell only prints out each misspelling once, no
matter how many times it occurs. (The script I posted does this, because
listing each error multiple times doesn't jive well with pine.)

> BUT WAIT ... If you spell check this message just as it is before you,
> the three errors (email, diskette, telnet) will be reported in the list
> at the top of the message, BUT ... if you remove this P.S. and run the
> spell-check again, NO ERRORS will be reported!

I have no proof, but I'm guessing that pine remembers which words you
didn't correct in previous spell checks, and won't keep harrassing you
about them on subsequent checks. Therefore, pine remembered you saying
that email, diskette, and telnet were ok, and passed over them in the
second spell check.

---
Mike Grupenhoff
[email protected]
There's no place like ~

From [email protected] Mon Jan 24 17:27:28 1994
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Date: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 10:54:27 +1100 (EST)
From: Charlie Brady <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: error messages
To: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9401240909.F29045-0100000@hal>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9401251056.L21939-0100000@sydte3>
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Another point regarding error messages being queued and appearing when
they are no longer relevant, if a save is done to a non-existant folder,
the user is prompted about whether to create the folder or not. Then
oafter the user says yes, and the message is saved in the newly created
folder, the system error message "No such file or directory" is
displayed.

This message should never be placed in the error message queue.

Charlie Brady * (W) [email protected] * (H) [email protected]
"Make it as simple as possible - | Tel: (02) 413 6838 ____Telectronics__| /\__
but no simpler" Einstein, A | Fax: (02) 413 6868 Pacing Systems \/

From [email protected] Mon Jan 24 17:30:32 1994
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Date: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 09:58:41 GMT
From: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Subject: PC pine password saving feature
To: Pine User Group <[email protected]>
X-Sender: [email protected]
Message-Id: <PCPine_p.3.89.9401250936.D9791-0100000@[134.225.33.95]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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I've been stuffing my password into PC Pine to save typing it every time I
run Pine (dodgy, I know, but hacking around with the setup I fire it up
and close it down so many times it gets tedious).

Anyway, yesterday Pine suddenly asks me if I'd like the password saved on
disk. I don't know what I did to make it do so - I had just reduced my
folder-collections from 2 to 1 which was IMAP-accessed, so maybe that was
it.

And I don't suppose the protection it gives is very strong - it is
encrypted, but it's the same number of characters as the password - but
it's better than having the password floating about in plain text as I
had!

What i'd like to know is (1) how one can intentionally get Pine to do
this, and (2) how I can get Unix Pine to do the same?

Oh and whether there's a plain text or postscript manual for Pine around
(there's a file pine-info which is almost 200K and has some wierd
MAN-page type formatting in it, and I'm told there's a postscript file
'amongst the sources' but our ftp connection to ftp.cac.washington is a
bit flaky and I haven't yet found it. If anyone's got a copy could they
attach it (possibly ZIPped up) and send it to me? Thanks.

John Stumbles [email protected]
Reading University 0734 318435
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

From [email protected] Mon Jan 24 17:31:02 1994
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id <[email protected]>; Tue, 25 Jan 1994 12:14:50 +0000
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 12:12:45 GMT
From: Barry Landy <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: PC pine password saving feature
To: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine User Group <[email protected]>
X-Sender: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <PCPine_p.3.89.9401250936.D9791-0100000@[134.225.33.95]>
Message-Id: <PCPine_p.3.89.9401251216.A6330-0100000@[131.111.10.53]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Tue, 25 Jan 1994, John Stumbles wrote:

> Anyway, yesterday Pine suddenly asks me if I'd like the password saved on
> disk. I don't know what I did to make it do so - I had just reduced my
> folder-collections from 2 to 1 which was IMAP-accessed, so maybe that was
> it.
.......................................
>
> What i'd like to know is (1) how one can intentionally get Pine to do
> this, and (2) how I can get Unix Pine to do the same?
>
> John Stumbles [email protected]
> Reading University 0734 318435
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>

PC-PINE Will do this if there is a file PINE.SIG in \PINE; this contains
the encrypted PW; if this is not accepted by the remote Unix, then PINE
will request the PW and ask if you want to store it.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry Landy Computer Laboratory:+44 223 334600
Head of Systems and Development Direct line: +44 223 334713
University of Cambridge Computing Service
New Museums Site Email:[email protected]
Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QG

From [email protected] Mon Jan 24 17:31:15 1994
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Date: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 05:37:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Mike Ramey <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Use ispell as standard speller, with modified commands?
To: Pine-Info Email List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 24 Jan 1994, Mike Grupenhoff wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Jan 1994, Mike Ramey wrote:
> > P.S.: In spell-checking this message (using 'spell' via ^T key),
> > I discovered the following anomaly:
> > - the following 1 line produces 3 spelling errors:
> > and 'diskette', 'telnet', 'email'(!), etc.
> > - the following 3 lines produce -no- spelling errors:
> > 'diskette',
> > 'telnet',
> > 'email'(!), etc.
>
> I think this is because spell only prints out each misspelling once, ...

NO. If the message contains only the list, no spelling errors are found;
if the message contains only the one-line phrase, 3 errors are found. -mr

> > BUT WAIT ... If you spell check this message just as it is before you,
> > the three errors (email, diskette, telnet) will be reported in the list
> > at the top of the message, BUT ... if you remove this P.S. and run the
> > spell-check again, NO ERRORS will be reported!
>
> I have no proof, but I'm guessing that pine remembers which words you
> didn't correct in previous spell checks, and won't keep harrassing you
> about them on subsequent checks.

NO. Pine spell (^T) will report the same errors every time. -mr

From [email protected] Tue Jan 25 10:59:20 1994
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Date: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 09:44:20 -0800 (PST)
From: "Daniel D. Todd" <[email protected]>
Reply-To: "Daniel D. Todd" <[email protected]>
Subject: filter, cont.
To: pine-info <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

First,
Thanks to all who responded to my questions re: getting .forwrd
files to work with filter.
The problem was that I was logging on to a different machine than our MTA
(sendmail) thought I should. So I was putting .forward in one alias for
$HOME and sendmail was looking to another. No one on campus could help
but with a little trial and error I found out. Well, now I have no
problem forwarding mail using .forward but I can't get it piped into a
program (filter). If I both forward and attempt to filter it the
recipient gets an error message. It looks like the pipe feature of
sendmail is inactive on campus. That I will work out with our postmaster
or sysadmin.

In the mean time I have .cshrc execute the script from the elm faq to
sort my mail on login. The problem is that if a piece of mail isn't
nabbed by one of the filter rules it is recopied into the inbox. And the
messages that do fit a filter rule are copied into the assigned folder
but they are also left in my inbox. Do I need to give a delete dommand
too? If so, how do I apply multiple actions to a single message?

thanks for all the help, I think I'm getting close.
Dan

*---------------------------------------------------------------------*
* Daniel D. Todd Packet: KC6UUD@KE6LW.#nocal.ca.usa *
* Internet: [email protected] *
* Snail Mail: 1750 Hanover #102 *
* Davis CA 95616 *
*---------------------------------------------------------------------*
* I do not speak for the University of California.... *
* and it sure as hell doesn't speak for me!! *
*---------------------------------------------------------------------*

From [email protected] Tue Jan 25 23:45:34 1994
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<[email protected]>; Wed, 26 Jan 1994 02:25:52 EST
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 02:19:00 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bill Ouchark, Networks Group, (617) 495-1271"
<[email protected]>
Subject: Default Folder Name Selection (PC-Pine)
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Is there a way in PC-Pine 3.89 to set the name of the folder
used by default for Saves? It defaults to "savemail", but as
I have a remote folder collection used as the default I would
prefer to use "saved-messages". I did notice the
"saved-msg-name-rule=" option in NEWSRC, but it doesn't appear
to have the option of choosing a specific name.

-Bill Ouchark-

From [email protected] Wed Jan 26 01:56:17 1994
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id <[email protected]>; Wed, 26 Jan 1994 09:29:19 +0000
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 09:31:49 GMT
From: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Subject: PC Pine/IMAP Gotcha!
To: Pine User Group <[email protected]>
X-Sender: [email protected]
Message-Id: <PCPine_p.3.89.9401260935.A9791-0100000@[134.225.33.95]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I came a cropper on this one so I'll share it with the list - if there's
a FAQ list maybe it should go in there?

Using PC-Pine with IMAP to access folders on a Unix host one has to set
folder-collections, documented in the comments in PINERC as follows (3.89):

# folder-collections specifies a list of folder collections wherein saved
# messages are stored. The first collection is the default for saves.
# Collection syntax: optnl-label {optnl-imap-hostname}optnl-directory-path[]
# Example:
# folder-collections=Saved-Email {foo.bar.edu}mail/[],
# Widget-Project widget/[], <-- Valid only in Unix Pine
# Local-PC mail\[] <-- Valid only in PC-Pine

Although with 20:20 hindsight it is obvious that the form:
{imapserver}directory/[]
applies, I set it as:
{imapserver}directory\[]
(because I was using PC-Pine) and this resulted in the mail folders on
my Unix filesystem being
~/mail\folder1
~/mail\folder2
etc
rather than
~/mail/folder1
etc
- i.e. with a backslash in each name.

John Stumbles [email protected]
Reading University 0734 318435
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

From [email protected] Wed Jan 26 07:20:08 1994
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Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 15:35:15 +0100 (MET)
From: Petr Skoda <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Petr Skoda <[email protected]>
Subject: Suggestions to PINE improvment
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9401261154.A24601-0100000@sunstel>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Dear PINE developers,
let me suggest several add-ons to your excellent program.
I use it everyday and I am very satisfied with it.
I came to PINE after notice of Barry Bouwsma in our local BITNET discussion
list csinfo-l where we had been just discussing methods of processing
of incoming mail from listservers. Soon after my comment that the Save
should be done also by Sender field Barry modified the source of v 3.85
and I am glad that you have included this in later versions

After long time of usage of PINE I have several other ideas how to improve
the management of mail from discussion lists:

1) The sort-key option should include value "sender", so I could have all
mail from each listserver displayed together. Inside this should be
applied the option arrival.

2) Some listservers have very unconvenient Sender field that says little
about the subject of the list (e.g. one Czech discussion list on SCO
machine have sender field maiser.). So it would be nice to have some
other configuration file (say .pinesaveto) which would map the sender:
field to actual name of folder (including path)

3) Other improvement could allow the save command from index screen with
possibility of selection of several messages together (some form of marking
-highlighting) and all messages from each sender.

4) Other configuration option (say header-display with values from:,
sender:, recipient ... ) should change a form of presentation of headers
in index. The from: field in massages form listserver is not very useful -
better is sender: (but may left as it is if the sort-by-sender will be
used)

5) For sending mail to international and local lists would be nice to have
two various signatures (one in local language and in English). In BSD mail
is the option ~A ~a for appending the .Signature and .signature
files respectively. I suggest the usage of some key to include the
Signature file or .signature and have the possibility not to
append it just after start of composing (say option choose-signature)

6) There should be a possibility during Sending message to invoke a sendmail
with -v (verbose mode) that displays a SMTP conversation between machines.
It is useful when you try a new address and you are not sure wheather it is
right or if you need to see that the massage was delivered to the target
machine (to recipient) just now.
I suggest either an auxiliary question
"Verbose sending ? [n]:" after ^X (Send) or two cases of Send command
^X normal send in background
^x verbose mode.

I know that for processing of mail-lists there are better programs
(e.g.procmail) but these will save incoming messages in time of delivery.
But I want to see what has just come alltogether and then sort to various
folders myself but with smallest effort (saving keystrokes).

Let me know, please, whether you have accepted any my suggestion and what
form of its implementation will be used.

Regards,

*************************************************************************
* Petr Skoda Phone : +42-204-85201, ext. 361 *
* Stellar Department +42-2-724525 *
* Astronomical Institute CAS Fax : +42-2-881611 *
* 251 65 Ondrejov e-mail: [email protected] *
* Czech Republic [email protected] *
*************************************************************************

From [email protected] Wed Jan 26 09:33:16 1994
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Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 09:05:11 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Suggestions to PINE improvment
To: Petr Skoda <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9401261154.A24601-0100000@sunstel>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Petr,

Thank you for the good suggestions! See my comments below.

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Wed, 26 Jan 1994, Petr Skoda wrote:

>
> Dear PINE developers,
> let me suggest several add-ons to your excellent program.
> I use it everyday and I am very satisfied with it.
> I came to PINE after notice of Barry Bouwsma in our local BITNET discussion
> list csinfo-l where we had been just discussing methods of processing
> of incoming mail from listservers. Soon after my comment that the Save
> should be done also by Sender field Barry modified the source of v 3.85
> and I am glad that you have included this in later versions
>
> After long time of usage of PINE I have several other ideas how to improve
> the management of mail from discussion lists:
>
> 1) The sort-key option should include value "sender", so I could have all
> mail from each listserver displayed together. Inside this should be
> applied the option arrival.
>
This is a good suggestion. We will also have other ways to group
messages in the next version of Pine. e.g. you will be able to Zoom in
on a set of messages.

> 2) Some listservers have very unconvenient Sender field that says little
> about the subject of the list (e.g. one Czech discussion list on SCO
> machine have sender field maiser.). So it would be nice to have some
> other configuration file (say .pinesaveto) which would map the sender:
> field to actual name of folder (including path)
>
The handling of the Sender field by listserv is very unfortunate. There
have been some other suggestions how to handle a save-by-alias operation,
but we have not decided on a strategy yet.

> 3) Other improvement could allow the save command from index screen with
> possibility of selection of several messages together (some form of marking
> -highlighting) and all messages from each sender.
>
This is coming in the next version of Pine.

> 4) Other configuration option (say header-display with values from:,
> sender:, recipient ... ) should change a form of presentation of headers
> in index. The from: field in massages form listserver is not very useful -
> better is sender: (but may left as it is if the sort-by-sender will be
> used)
>
This is an interesting suggestion. We will have to give it some
consideration.

> 5) For sending mail to international and local lists would be nice to have
> two various signatures (one in local language and in English). In BSD mail
> is the option ~A ~a for appending the .Signature and .signature
> files respectively. I suggest the usage of some key to include the
> .Signature file or .signature and have the possibility not to
> append it just after start of composing (say option choose-signature)
>
Several variations of this have been suggested. For now, you might try
naming your signature files .s and .S, then use ^R to read in the
appropriate one on each message.

> 6) There should be a possibility during Sending message to invoke a sendmail
> with -v (verbose mode) that displays a SMTP conversation between machines.
> It is useful when you try a new address and you are not sure wheather it is
> right or if you need to see that the massage was delivered to the target
> machine (to recipient) just now.
> I suggest either an auxiliary question
> "Verbose sending ? [n]:" after ^X (Send) or two cases of Send command
> ^X normal send in background
> ^x verbose mode.
>
Hmmm... This would definitely be a power-user feature...

BTW, ^x and ^X are the same character...
>
> I know that for processing of mail-lists there are better programs
> (e.g.procmail) but these will save incoming messages in time of delivery.
> But I want to see what has just come alltogether and then sort to various
> folders myself but with smallest effort (saving keystrokes).
>
Stay tuned, improvements are coming...

> Let me know, please, whether you have accepted any my suggestion and what
> form of its implementation will be used.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> *************************************************************************
> * Petr Skoda Phone : +42-204-85201, ext. 361 *
> * Stellar Department +42-2-724525 *
> * Astronomical Institute CAS Fax : +42-2-881611 *
> * 251 65 Ondrejov e-mail: [email protected] *
> * Czech Republic [email protected] *
> *************************************************************************
>
>
>
>
>

From [email protected] Wed Jan 26 10:54:48 1994
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Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 18:15:09 +0000 (GMT)
From: Dave King <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Dave King <[email protected]>
Subject: 'A' & 'N' msg status
To: Pine Information <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

'A' status
----------
When a message has been answered using (R)eply, the message's status
field is updated to show an 'A' - as expected.

If however, a reply is *postponed* and resumed, the status field is not
updated to indicate that an (A)nswer has been mailed.

I've had a quick look at the code and I see that it's the c-client that
does the updating of X-Status. I don't know how easily this anomaly
could be resolved, so is it worthwhile either:

1. indicating in Pine's help that 'A' is not infallible.
2. Amend Pine and/or the c-client to cope with postponed replies - maybe
a lot of work ...

'N' status
----------
Pine's help on this field (in common with all other mailers I know of)
states that this message is 'new' but in fact I've noticed that if a
message 'comes in' and is *not* read, it's 'Status:' field changes to:

Status: RO = OLD
Status: O = SEEN but *not* READ

When the mailbox is rewritten on exit. I think I've got this the right
way around!

With this information, it should be possible to present on entry to a
folder (INBOX?) information to convey how many messages have:

1. Previously arrived, and have not been read (Unseen).
2. Just arrived (New).
3. Previously arrived and have been read (Old).

This information is used here when our menu system initialises to inform
the user that there may be messages that need reading (New & Unseen).

Pine must parse the mailbox at the moment to setup the status flag display
so would it be worthwhile having a 'U' flag to indicate the message's
'unread' status? (although I know many mailers use 'U' to indicate
urgent). Is this worthwhile information?

Maybe I'm being pedantic but should a 'new' message really be a brand-new
message and not an unread message that has previously been 'seen' in the
index?

Dave

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave King, Admin. Computing Services Manager, University of Bristol
[email protected] (JANET) [email protected] (INTERNET)

From [email protected] Wed Jan 26 11:05:09 1994
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id <[email protected]>; Wed, 26 Jan 1994 18:25:53 +0000
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 18:28:23 GMT
From: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Subject: enhancement request
To: Pine User Group <[email protected]>
X-Sender: [email protected]
Message-Id: <PCPine_p.3.89.9401261804.A9791-0100000@[134.225.33.95]>
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When I tidy up my inbox, I read my messages and save them to the
appropriate folders. As I save each message it is marked as deleted in
the current mailbox. I have to press 'N' to move to the next message.

I would like PINE automatically to skip to the next undeleted message.

(One could still get into a message marked as deleted, from the index, by
pointing to it and hitting ENTER)

Possibly this behaviour could be controlled by a flag, like
delete-skips-deleted.

When tagging becomes available I would like a similar behaviour i.e. when
reading each message and skipping to the next/previous with N/P that Pine
jumps past already tagged messages.

John Stumbles [email protected]
Reading University 0734 318435
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

From [email protected] Wed Jan 26 12:17:30 1994
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Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 4:04:57 -0600 (CST)
From: "If wishes were horses, then beggars would ride." <[email protected]>
To: [email protected], [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Subject: pine setup on standalone dos-pc
Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 11:20:08 -0800 (PST)
Resent-From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Resent-Subject:
Resent-To: [email protected]
Resent-Message-Id: <[email protected]>

I'm looking for a software package that will read and write mime encoded
messages. I was hoping pine would do this for me. After downloading pine,
I read all the text file I could find but could not find the answers I need.

Because of my situation, I have to read mail from over a modem connection
into our college. I have NO access to system file from the Vax (we use
SMTP). I would like to download my mail over a modem onto my pc. Then
decodand read (or visualize and listen to) my mail. I do have a sound blaster. To my understanding, mime messages can be told to retrive files from other
systems when reading the mail. I would like to be able to identify this
option to extract the address and directory tree since I would not be able to
do this with the configuration I'm hoping for. But I could go out at some
other tito these files. I know this may seem like a system that is less then
desirable but this is the only way I could read mime messages without having
access to the mainframe or its system files.

If pine can not do what I need, please direct me in the right direction.
After reading the files to configure pine I have realized that this is not
very user friendly (no software for mime I have found is user friendly).
Even a commercial software that can accomplish my goals without having to be
an internet or system administrator expert would be nice.

If I have sent this message to the wrong address please let me know and
send it to the appropriate location. If you believe the pi mailing list
could help, please add my address to it.

Eric Dierkens

[email protected]

From [email protected] Wed Jan 26 12:56:28 1994
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Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 12:28:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Elmar Kurgpold <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Elmar Kurgpold <[email protected]>
Subject: building on Solaris with gcc
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9401261203.S29266-0100000@hal>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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I hope someone can help me. I'm running Solaris 2.3 on an IPC, and just
compiled gcc 2.5.8, which went perfectly (as near as I can tell). Here
are some of the messages when compiling pine (with "build sol")

[...]
Making Pine.
rm -f os.h
ln -s osdep/os-sv4.h os.h
/cmplhlp2.sh < pine.hlp > helptext.h
gcc -DSV4 -g -DDEBUG -c addrbook.c
In file included from ../c-client/osdep.h:41,
from headers.h:78,
from addrbook.c:69:
/usr/local/lib/gcc-lib/sparc-sun-solaris2.3/2.5.8/include/string.h:30:
warning: conflicting types for built-in function `memcpy'
/usr/local/lib/gcc-lib/sparc-sun-solaris2.3/2.5.8/include/string.h:32:
warning: conflicting types for built-in function `strcpy'
/usr/local/lib/gcc-lib/sparc-sun-solaris2.3/2.5.8/include/string.h:38:
warning: conflicting types for built-in function `memcmp'
/usr/local/lib/gcc-lib/sparc-sun-solaris2.3/2.5.8/include/string.h:39:
warning: conflicting types for built-in function `strcmp'
In file included from ../c-client/osdep.h:47,
from headers.h:78,
from addrbook.c:69:
/usr/local/lib/gcc-lib/sparc-sun-solaris2.3/2.5.8/include/unistd.h:171:
conflicting types for `rename'
/usr/local/lib/gcc-lib/sparc-sun-solaris2.3/2.5.8/include/stdio.h:120:
previous declaration of `rename'
*** Error code 1
make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `addrbook.o'
[...]

Of course, I get no pine or pico executable, but imapd and mtest are
there. There were similar errors or warnings for all parts. TIA for your
help!

--Elmar

------------------------------------- ,-,,-, __
| Elmar Kurgpold | ______/ /_,' |
| Network Administrator | \________________/
| University of Southern California | |<) (> |
| The Law Center | ( | oo |
| [email protected] | ) `| |--'
| (213)740-2571 FAX: (213)740-5502 | (___^^^^|
------------------------------------- (____'

From [email protected] Thu Jan 27 01:44:52 1994
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Thu, 27 Jan 94 09:25:13 GMT
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 09:20:35 +0000 (GMT)
From: Mike Brudenell <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: 'A' & 'N' msg status
To: Pine Information <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.87.9401270935.C4667-0100000@unix>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Wed, 26 Jan 1994, Dave King wrote:

> 'A' status
> ----------
> When a message has been answered using (R)eply, the message's status
> field is updated to show an 'A' - as expected.
>
> If however, a reply is *postponed* and resumed, the status field is not
> updated to indicate that an (A)nswer has been mailed.

I, too, have noticed this bug. Ideally I'd like to see the "A" flag set
correctly, but guess there may be context saving problems (for example
the message you're replying to may be deleted before the postponed reply
is actually sent?)

> 'N' status
> ----------
> Pine's help on this field (in common with all other mailers I know of)
> states that this message is 'new' but in fact I've noticed that if a
> message 'comes in' and is *not* read, it's 'Status:' field changes to:
>
> Status: RO = OLD
> Status: O = SEEN but *not* READ
>
> When the mailbox is rewritten on exit. I think I've got this the right
> way around!
>
> With this information, it should be possible to present on entry to a
> folder (INBOX?) information to convey how many messages have:
>
> 1. Previously arrived, and have not been read (Unseen).
> 2. Just arrived (New).
> 3. Previously arrived and have been read (Old).

I agree that with this information it certainly SHOULD be possible to to
have "New", "Old" and "Unseen" (Elm does it).

HOWEVER one of the nice things about Pine IMHO is that it DOESN'T (by
default) do this. Trying to explain the subtleties of the difference
between the three cases to new or naive users is not easy. IWhen we
moved from Elm to Pine I was glad to see the back of this.

If the Powers That Be do decide to re-introduce this PLEASE let it be
configurable offable!

Mike B-)

From [email protected] Thu Jan 27 03:15:16 1994
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Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 10:44:42 +0000 (GMT)
From: Roger Gawley <[email protected]>
Subject: New / Unseen
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I think that the distinction between new messages and unseen messages is
one that most users neither understand nor want. (I understand it but I
do not want it.) Pine should continue to treat these as equivalent.

From [email protected] Thu Jan 27 07:48:57 1994
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Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 10:08:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Sherry Lake <[email protected]>
Subject: Extract Messages and keep ALL Headers
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I was wondering if there was a way in pine to extract a message and keep
all headers (that is if you have "full header" display on and extract a
message, I would like all headers saved in the file)? I would also like
it if there was an option to turn on "keep all headers" in an included
forwarded message.

Thanks.

-----
Sherry H. Lake [email protected]
Electronic Mail Consultant
George Mason University

From [email protected] Thu Jan 27 08:19:19 1994
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Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 10:53:53 -0500 (EST)
From: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Extract Messages and keep ALL Headers
To: Sherry Lake <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

That's actually what save message does. You can give any file name to
the save command and Pine will write the message with full headers to
it. Save defaults to the ~/mail directory, where export defaults to the
home directory. There's a few other differences too, for example save
locks the target file first.

Laurence Lundblade
[email protected] 703-552-2537
Virginia Tech -- Blacksburg, Virginia

On Thu, 27 Jan 1994, Sherry Lake wrote:

> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 10:08:01 -0500 (EST)
> From: Sherry Lake <[email protected]>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Extract Messages and keep ALL Headers
>
> I was wondering if there was a way in pine to extract a message and keep
> all headers (that is if you have "full header" display on and extract a
> message, I would like all headers saved in the file)? I would also like
> it if there was an option to turn on "keep all headers" in an included
> forwarded message.
>
> Thanks.
>
> -----
> Sherry H. Lake [email protected]
> Electronic Mail Consultant
> George Mason University
>

From [email protected] Thu Jan 27 08:30:38 1994
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Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 08:02:21 -0800 (PST)
From: David Wall <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Extract Messages and keep ALL Headers
To: Sherry Lake <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Sherry,
If you use "S"ave, all the headers are preserved. So when I need full
headers I "S"ave to whatever file is appropriate. To include all those
headers in a forwarded message you could '^R"ead in the file.
Pine does have an option to include headers in reply, but you only get
four lines of headers, as shown in your message below.

--David Wall Computing & Communications...Client Services 3-8491
Univ. of Washington HG-45 [email protected]

On Thu, 27 Jan 1994, Sherry Lake wrote:

> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 10:08:01 -0500 (EST)
> From: Sherry Lake <[email protected]>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Extract Messages and keep ALL Headers
>
> I was wondering if there was a way in pine to extract a message and keep
> all headers (that is if you have "full header" display on and extract a
> message, I would like all headers saved in the file)? I would also like
> it if there was an option to turn on "keep all headers" in an included
> forwarded message.
>
> Thanks.
>
> -----
> Sherry H. Lake [email protected]
> Electronic Mail Consultant
> George Mason University
>
>

From [email protected] Thu Jan 27 08:40:31 1994
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Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 16:22:28 +0000 (GMT)
From: Philip Hazel <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Extract Messages and keep ALL Headers
To: Sherry Lake <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Length: 893

> I was wondering if there was a way in pine to extract a message and keep
> all headers (that is if you have "full header" display on and extract a
> message, I would like all headers saved in the file)? I would also like
> it if there was an option to turn on "keep all headers" in an included
> forwarded message.

This has proved troublesome to us too. We have suffered some incidents of
mail spoofing, and the person investigating always says "please send me the
offending message, including all the headers". The trouble is that it is
usually inexperienced users who suffer these incidents, and they are just
the ones who can't even display the headers, let alone forward them...

--
Philip Hazel University Computing Service,
[email protected] New Museums Site, Cambridge CB2 3QG,
[email protected] England. Phone: +44 223 334714

From [email protected] Thu Jan 27 09:09:49 1994
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Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 10:43:14 -0600 (CST)
From: "Gregory J. Atchity" <[email protected]>
Subject: Suggestions
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I just joined this group a week ago, and I see a lot of suggestions,
so I guess they are welcomed by the designers. I'll put my two cents
in, let me know if you want any more of my money.

First, I'd rather see the number of lines in a message in the index
instead of the number of characters it has. I don't receive that much
mime, and so lines is a bit more useful to me. Perhaps that should be an
option.

Second, why does the 'To:' line require commas between members of a
list? I don't know much about mail programs, but I thought all addresses
had to be one word, and so I'd like to see Pine parse each word regardless
of whether it has a comma after it or not, and insert the commas for me if
I forget. This sounds do-able to me, even if aliases can be multi-word.

Thanks for listening.
---
Greg Atchity ([email protected] and [email protected])
Iowa State University and Ames Laboratory - USDOE

From [email protected] Thu Jan 27 09:14:04 1994
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Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 11:48:32 -0500 (EST)
From: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Extract Messages and keep ALL Headers
To: Philip Hazel <[email protected]>
Cc: Sherry Lake <[email protected]>, [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I'm not sure this will solve the problem but it's an idea. It's not
currently the default, but if you set enable-forward-as-MIME and have the
user answer "y" to the "forward as MIME" question the message is forwarded
with all it's headers. The recipient only sees the full headers of the
message if they turn on full headers so it would even be a reasonable
default behavior in an all Pine or all MIME environment. Hopefully
someday we'll have the ability to reply-to/save/forward messages that are
forwarded in MIME format (the message forward message is like an
attachment).

Laurence Lundblade
[email protected] 703-552-2537
Virginia Tech -- Blacksburg, Virginia

On Thu, 27 Jan 1994, Philip Hazel wrote:
>
> > I was wondering if there was a way in pine to extract a message and keep
> > all headers (that is if you have "full header" display on and extract a
> > message, I would like all headers saved in the file)? I would also like
> > it if there was an option to turn on "keep all headers" in an included
> > forwarded message.
>
> This has proved troublesome to us too. We have suffered some incidents of
> mail spoofing, and the person investigating always says "please send me the
> offending message, including all the headers". The trouble is that it is
> usually inexperienced users who suffer these incidents, and they are just
> the ones who can't even display the headers, let alone forward them...
>
>
> --
> Philip Hazel University Computing Service,
> [email protected] New Museums Site, Cambridge CB2 3QG,
> [email protected] England. Phone: +44 223 334714
>

From [email protected] Thu Jan 27 10:00:41 1994
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Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 09:30:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Mike Ramey <[email protected]>
Subject: Extract/Forward Messages and keep ALL Headers!
To: Sherry Lake <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Sherry - I saved your message in the pine folder named 'z' (which I use
for temporary storage only), which is equivalent to "E"xtracting the
message. Then I composed a message and ^R(ead) in the file 'z' from my
'mail' directory, which is equivalent to forwarding the message. The
results are below. Of course, now I must delete the 'z' folder so it will
be empty for my next use. The only thing I find strange is that the first
line of the saved message is:
From [email protected] Thu Jan 27 09:16:15 1994
Pine-folks: What's this mean?
-mr
----------------------

>From [email protected] Thu Jan 27 09:16:15 1994
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Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 10:08:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Sherry Lake <[email protected]>
Subject: Extract Messages and keep ALL Headers
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I was wondering if there was a way in pine to extract a message and keep
all headers (that is if you have "full header" display on and extract a
message, I would like all headers saved in the file)? I would also like
it if there was an option to turn on "keep all headers" in an included
forwarded message.

Thanks.

-----
Sherry H. Lake [email protected]
Electronic Mail Consultant
George Mason University

From [email protected] Thu Jan 27 12:30:48 1994
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Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 15:00:13 -0500 (EST)
From: Dan Mandell <[email protected]>
Subject: Kermit 0.9(57) Printing to attached Printer Prob.
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

When Mac Kermit users print to an attached-ansi printer, we are seeing
Kermit Capture Buffer overflows, and much of longer messages is lost.
I cannot find a way to set the size of the Capture Buffer, or otherwise
prevent it from overflowing....Could someone tell me how to enlarge the
capture buffer....

--
=====================================
Dan Mandell, Computer Services, Saint Mary's College
Internet: [email protected]

"Always promise a little less than you can deliver" : Montaigne

From [email protected] Thu Jan 27 22:40:31 1994
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Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 21:05:08 -0800 (PST)
From: "Daniel D. Todd" <[email protected]>
Subject: filter, cont. (fwd)
To: pine-info <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Hello,
I sent this out last week. To any who answered, please mail your
responses again if possible. It seems my .forward file was causing all
of my mail to be dumped into the great cyber abyss.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 09:44:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Daniel D. Todd <[email protected]>
To: pine-info <[email protected]>
Subject: filter, cont.

First,
Thanks to all who responded to my questions re: getting .forward
files to work with filter.
The problem was that I was logging on to a different machine than our MTA
(sendmail) thought I should. So I was putting .forward in one alias for
$HOME and sendmail was looking to another. No one on campus could help
but with a little trial and error I found out. Well, now I have no
problem forwarding mail using .forward but I can't get it piped into a
program (filter). If I both forward and attempt to filter it the
recipient gets an error message. It looks like the pipe feature of
sendmail is inactive on campus. That I will work out with our postmaster
or sysadmin.

In the mean time I have .cshrc execute the script from the elm faq to
sort my mail on login. The problem is that if a piece of mail isn't
nabbed by one of the filter rules it is recopied into the inbox. And the
messages that do fit a filter rule are copied into the assigned folder
but they are also left in my inbox. Do I need to give a delete dommand
too? If so, how do I apply multiple actions to a single message?

thanks for all the help, I think I'm getting close.
Dan

*---------------------------------------------------------------------*
* Daniel D. Todd Packet: KC6UUD@KE6LW.#nocal.ca.usa *
* Internet: [email protected] *
* Snail Mail: 1750 Hanover #102 *
* Davis CA 95616 *
*---------------------------------------------------------------------*
* I do not speak for the University of California.... *
* and it sure as hell doesn't speak for me!! *
*---------------------------------------------------------------------*

From [email protected] Thu Jan 27 23:30:13 1994
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Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 09:12:18 +0200
From: Kari Sutela <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: building on Solaris with gcc
To: Elmar Kurgpold <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9401261203.S29266-0100000@hal>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Wed, 26 Jan 1994, Elmar Kurgpold wrote:

> In file included from ../c-client/osdep.h:47,
> from headers.h:78,
> from addrbook.c:69:
> /usr/local/lib/gcc-lib/sparc-sun-solaris2.3/2.5.8/include/unistd.h:171:
> conflicting types for `rename'
> /usr/local/lib/gcc-lib/sparc-sun-solaris2.3/2.5.8/include/stdio.h:120:
> previous declaration of `rename'
> *** Error code 1
> make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `addrbook.o'

Sounds like there's something wrong with your include files (gcc uses its
own set of includes as you can see). Did you run fixincludes during the
gcc installation process? Did you re-run fixincludes when you upgraded
from Solaris 2.2 to Solaris 2.3 (provided, of course, that you had been
running Solaris 2.2 previously and your gcc was installing under 2.2)?

This is just the reason I demanded that I get a "real" SparcWorks C
compiler when we upgrade to Solaris 2.x. I'm sure that gcc is a good
compiler WHEN you get it properly installed, but it's just too much
hassle for me.

/KS

From [email protected] Fri Jan 28 04:34:28 1994
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Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 12:07:59 +0000 (GMT)
From: Philip Hazel <[email protected]>
Subject: Clearing the INBOX
To: maillist Pine <[email protected]>
Cc: "B. Landy" <[email protected]>, Chris Thompson <[email protected]>,
"G. Chew" <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Length: 1567

We run Pine on a multi-user Sun box, in the normal configuration where
mail is delivered into /var/spool/mail/<userid>.

A problem that is now beginning to hit us is that new users of computers
don't appreciate that their INBOX is actually in a different filing
system to their other folders, and they tend to leave all their mail in
the INBOX (many of them don't even know how to move it to another
folder). Consequently, our mail partition is beginning to show signs of
strain.

There are obviously various measures we can take to relieve this, but it
was pointed out that Pine is different to many other MUAs in this area.
MH, for example, always copies the messages out of the INBOX when you
read them. Elm won't exit with messages still in the INBOX unless you
tell it to leave them there; by default it copies them to a folder called
(if I remember correctly) "saved-messages".

We don't want to deliver mail into users' home directories, for a number
of reasons (possible non-availability if remote, and unexpected and
unpredictable exhaustion of quota being two main ones).

Could you consider adding to Pine a feature like that of Elm, whereby the
user is asked whether (s)he would like to have any mail remaining in the
INBOX moved to a folder on exiting from Pine? Preferably controlled by an
option in the global conf file.

Regards,
Philip

--
Philip Hazel University Computing Service,
[email protected] New Museums Site, Cambridge CB2 3QG,
[email protected] England. Phone: +44 223 334714

From [email protected] Fri Jan 28 05:21:27 1994
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Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 07:50:26 -0500 (EST)
From: "Thomas E. Rutledge, III" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Kermit 0.9(57) Printing to attached Printer Prob.
To: Dan Mandell <[email protected]>
Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Thu, 27 Jan 1994, Dan Mandell wrote:

> When Mac Kermit users print to an attached-ansi printer, we are seeing
> Kermit Capture Buffer overflows, and much of longer messages is lost.
> I cannot find a way to set the size of the Capture Buffer, or otherwise
> prevent it from overflowing....Could someone tell me how to enlarge the
> capture buffer....

Just in case you have not tried this, increas the memory size of
MacKermit itself... If you have thought of this, then I have no useful
suggestion, except that I hava not (yet) had any buffer overflows...(my
MacKermit is set to 1024...)

Good luck.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
U U | Thomas E. Rutledge, III | (919) 962-6501
U U N N | UNC OIT User Services |
U U N N N CCCC | CB # 3455 Phillips Hall | INTERNET Mail address:
UUUU N N N C | Chapel Hill, NC 27599 | [email protected]
N N C |---------------------------------------------------------
CCCC | :( "Where ever you go, there you are ..." ):
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From [email protected] Fri Jan 28 07:13:56 1994
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id <[email protected]>; Fri, 28 Jan 1994 14:34:41 +0000
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 14:34:36 +0000 (GMT)
From: Mike Roch <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Clearing the INBOX
To: Philip Hazel <[email protected]>
Cc: maillist Pine <[email protected]>,
"B. Landy" <[email protected]>, Chris Thompson <[email protected]>,
"G. Chew" <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.88.9401281403.A2203-0100000@suma3>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In 3.8x there's a

read-message-folder=

entry in .pinerc. This can be set to old-mail, etc etc.

Mike

==============================================================================
Mike Roch, Computer Services Centre, Tel: 0734 318430
The University, Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AF Fax: 0734 753094

From [email protected] Fri Jan 28 07:24:14 1994
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Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 14:49:30 GMT
From: Barry Landy <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Clearing the INBOX
To: Mike Roch <[email protected]>
Cc: Philip Hazel <[email protected]>,
maillist Pine <[email protected]>,
Chris Thompson <[email protected]>, "G. Chew" <[email protected]>
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On Fri, 28 Jan 1994, Mike Roch wrote:

> In 3.8x there's a
>
> read-message-folder=
>
> entry in .pinerc. This can be set to old-mail, etc etc.
>

Just what I was going to say! I use it for my own use of PINE.

The only problem is that the system default is off (no action). For unix
users the system config could be changed (in which case I suppose there
would be no way of turning it off in the local .pinerc, only overriding
with a different value); for PC-PINE users the only hope is persuasion.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry Landy Computer Laboratory:+44 223 334600
Head of Systems and Development Direct line: +44 223 334713
University of Cambridge Computing Service
New Museums Site Email:[email protected]
Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QG

From [email protected] Fri Jan 28 07:41:27 1994
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Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 09:08:25 -0600 (CST)
From: "Amos A. Gouaux" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: building on Solaris with gcc
To: Elmar Kurgpold <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9401261203.S29266-0100000@hal>
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On Wed, 26 Jan 1994, Elmar Kurgpold wrote:

> I hope someone can help me. I'm running Solaris 2.3 on an IPC, and just
> compiled gcc 2.5.8, which went perfectly (as near as I can tell). Here
> are some of the messages when compiling pine (with "build sol")
>
> [...]
> Making Pine.
> rm -f os.h
> ln -s osdep/os-sv4.h os.h
> ./cmplhlp2.sh < pine.hlp > helptext.h
> gcc -DSV4 -g -DDEBUG -c addrbook.c
> In file included from ../c-client/osdep.h:41, .......

The compile line I get is something like this:

gcc -DSV4 -O2 -ansi -DANSI -c addrbook.c

I have included my notes from when I first compiled pine-3.89 under
Solaris. I just recompiled it again using gcc-2.5.8 under Solaris-2.3 and
had no problems.

Unfortunately, just doing "build sol" isn't sufficient to get everything
to compile. You also have to fiddle with some of the files. Perhaps my
notes will help.....

Amos A. Gouaux Academic Computing Services [email protected]
UNIX Systems University of North Texas 817/565-4898
Administration PO Box 13495, Denton, TX 76203 FAX at -4060

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
To compile pine on Solaris using gcc:

1. Under the distribution source directory, edit pine/makefile.sol.
Specify the following make variables:

CC= gcc
CFLAGS= -DSV4 $(OPTIMIZE) $(PROFILE) $(DEBUG) -ansi -DANSI
LDCC= gcc

2. In pine/osdep, edit the file os-sv4.h and make the following
modifications:

/*----------------- Are we ANSI? -----------------------------*/
#define ANSI /* this is an ANSI compiler */

/* #define const /* compiler doesn't support const */

3. Under the distribution source directory, edit pico/makefile.sol.
Specify the following make variables:

CC= gcc
LDCC= gcc
CFLAGS= -Dsv4 -DPOSIX -DJOB_CONTROL -ansi

4. Now actually get everything compiled. For the final version, I
compile it as follows:

% ./build sol CC="gcc" OPTIMIZE="-O2" DASHO="-O2" DEBUG=""

From [email protected] Fri Jan 28 09:16:27 1994
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Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 16:32:19 +0000 (GMT)
From: Mike Brudenell <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Clearing the INBOX
To: Pine Mailing List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
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You have two choices....

1) Use the .pinerc variable (already mentioned in other replies) to set
a "read messages" folder. Remember this can be set globally in the
system Pine configuration file if you wish.

However this moves the read messages into a totally separate folder that
is treated just as any other folder (ie, quite separate from the INBOX).
This means that users must explicitly open this folder in order to
re-read messages they have already read once.

Doesn't sound too bad, perhaps, but it's similar to the NEWMAIL and MAIL
folders in VAX/VMS MAIL, which I found quite difficult to explain to
people at times.

A better choice might be...

2) Modify the Pine source code to call the mboxdriver routines *before*
the bezerkdriver routines when it is initialising the list of mail
drivers (I think it's in the main pine.c file from memory). [Basically
it's a case of add one line in two places.]

The mbox driver causes mail in the INBOX to be (silently) moved to a file
called "mbox" in the user's home directory. This is then opened and
treated as the INBOX.

The upshot is that sendmail (or whatever) delivers mail to your system
mail area (so you don't run into user quota problems). However as soon
as the user starts Pine these messages get moved into their home
directory (and so get charged against their personal disk quota). If
there isn't enough disk quota an error message is displayed, and the new
messages don't get shown (and so can't be read).

One gotcha is that the code as supplied in the mbox.c file requires the
presence of a (possibly empty, if not must be validly formatted) file called
"mbox" in the home directory for the mail moving to occur. No doubt this
can be easily changed along the lines of "If the file isn't there don't
fail, just create one".

The advantage of this approach is that unseen and read messages are still
rationalised into one folder (still called INBOX within Pine, but
actually $HOME/mbox) rather than forcing the split into totally separate
folders. It also means that users can't get round it by overrinding the
systemwide variable setting in their .pinerc file!

We're looking at trying this out on a few of our own Staff, but need to
be sure it'll work before doing it to users. ... It's a bit of a one-way
street to go down!

Mike B-)

On Fri, 28 Jan 1994, Philip Hazel wrote:

> We run Pine on a multi-user Sun box, in the normal configuration where
> mail is delivered into /var/spool/mail/<userid>.
>
> A problem that is now beginning to hit us is that new users of computers
> don't appreciate that their INBOX is actually in a different filing
> system to their other folders, and they tend to leave all their mail in
> the INBOX (many of them don't even know how to move it to another
> folder). Consequently, our mail partition is beginning to show signs of
> strain.
>
> There are obviously various measures we can take to relieve this, but it
> was pointed out that Pine is different to many other MUAs in this area.
> MH, for example, always copies the messages out of the INBOX when you
> read them. Elm won't exit with messages still in the INBOX unless you
> tell it to leave them there; by default it copies them to a folder called
> (if I remember correctly) "saved-messages".
>
> We don't want to deliver mail into users' home directories, for a number
> of reasons (possible non-availability if remote, and unexpected and
> unpredictable exhaustion of quota being two main ones).
>
> Could you consider adding to Pine a feature like that of Elm, whereby the
> user is asked whether (s)he would like to have any mail remaining in the
> INBOX moved to a folder on exiting from Pine? Preferably controlled by an
> option in the global conf file.
>
> Regards,
> Philip
>
> --
> Philip Hazel University Computing Service,
> [email protected] New Museums Site, Cambridge CB2 3QG,
> [email protected] England. Phone: +44 223 334714
>

From [email protected] Fri Jan 28 09:37:32 1994
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Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 15:52:20 +0000 (GMT)
From: Ian Dunkin <[email protected]>
Subject: Pine locking (fwd)
To: The Pine list <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9401281556.A2824-0100000@uk0x04>
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Had the following query from a user here. I'm sure I've seen discussion
of this on the list, but it doesn't seem to have been implemented. Would
it be a good thing to add? In summary:

User runs Pine, leaves the session going

User goes away and logs in from somwhere else; Pine correctly takes
the lock from the first session

User comes back to the first session. Would like a way to grab
_back_ the lock.

Thanks,

I.

---------- Forwarded message ----------

Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 15:42:02 +0000 (GMT)
From: [...] one-of-our-users
Subject: Pine locking

When I dial-in to my workstaion & look at mail with Pine it is very good
at grabbing the file locking, but when I get back to the console I have
to quit Pine, then run it again to leave the read-only mode. Is there a
way of getting the file lock back in Pine?

R.

From [email protected] Fri Jan 28 11:27:46 1994
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Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 11:09:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine locking (fwd)
To: Ian Dunkin <[email protected]>
Cc: The Pine list <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9401281556.A2824-0100000@uk0x04>
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I'm sorry, but it is extremely unlikely that this would ever be
implemented, due to internal technical considerations.

``Having the lock'' means ``I know exactly what the mailbox file looks
like on disk, including where all the messages are located, and the only
thing anyone else can do to this mailbox is append to it.'' Conversely,
``not having the lock'' means ``I took a snapshot of the mailbox file some
time in the past, but I have no idea what it might look like now, so I had
better not try to do anything with that file again.''

The upshot of all of this is that ``grabbing back the lock'' is a
meaningless concept. The process which lost the lock no longer knows
what is on the disk; rather, it just has a snapshot.

Consequently, the only way to get the lock again is to close the mailbox
(discarding the snapshot) and re-opening it again. You can do that with
the appropriate commands in Pine, or by exiting Pine and running it again.

We may, in a future version, create an automatic way to do this that
would simulate the behavior you've requested (``grabbing back the lock'')
but in reality it would be doing a close/re-open operation. The issue
becomes whether or or not it is worth adding yet another command to Pine
to do an operation that users can already do themselves.... ;-)

On Fri, 28 Jan 1994, Ian Dunkin wrote:
> Had the following query from a user here. I'm sure I've seen discussion
> of this on the list, but it doesn't seem to have been implemented. Would
> it be a good thing to add? In summary:
>
> User runs Pine, leaves the session going
>
> User goes away and logs in from somwhere else; Pine correctly takes
> the lock from the first session
>
> User comes back to the first session. Would like a way to grab
> _back_ the lock.

From [email protected] Fri Jan 28 11:51:18 1994
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Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 19:19:45 +0000 (GMT)
From: Ian Dunkin <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Ian Dunkin <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine locking (fwd)
To: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Cc: The Pine list <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9401281923.A3628-0100000@uk0x04>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Fri, 28 Jan 1994, Mark Crispin wrote:

> Consequently, the only way to get the lock again is to close the mailbox
> (discarding the snapshot) and re-opening it again. You can do that with
> the appropriate commands in Pine, or by exiting Pine and running it again.

Thanks for the reply.. Err.. I can see this should be obvious, but: What
_are_ the `appropriate commands' in Pine, to do this?? Leaving and Going
back to the INBOX again still seems to keep the cached snapshot...

I.

From [email protected] Fri Jan 28 13:24:07 1994
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Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 12:58:30 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine locking (fwd)
To: Ian Dunkin <[email protected]>
Cc: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>, The Pine list <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9401281923.A3628-0100000@uk0x04>
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The INBOX is the one folder that there is no way to recover without
exiting and re-entering pine. This is a side effect of never closing the
INBOX in routine operation.

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Fri, 28 Jan 1994, Ian Dunkin wrote:

> On Fri, 28 Jan 1994, Mark Crispin wrote:
>
> > Consequently, the only way to get the lock again is to close the mailbox
> > (discarding the snapshot) and re-opening it again. You can do that with
> > the appropriate commands in Pine, or by exiting Pine and running it again.
>
> Thanks for the reply.. Err.. I can see this should be obvious, but: What
> _are_ the `appropriate commands' in Pine, to do this?? Leaving and Going
> back to the INBOX again still seems to keep the cached snapshot...
>
> I.

From [email protected] Fri Jan 28 14:55:02 1994
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Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 13:36:28 -0800 (PST)
From: "Daniel D. Todd" <[email protected]>
Subject: ideas for pine
To: pine-info <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Well I've been using 3.89 for a month or so now. I think Ihave a couple
of nice features that shouldn't be to hard to implement in the next version.

1) Have "Take address" take the To: address instead of the from address
if you are in the sent-mail folder. This is useful if you initiate
contact and never receive a reply. Or if you didn't initially plan on
including the person in your address book but change your mind.

2) On start-up pine should check the contents of all of your "incoming
mail boxes" so the display might look like this

INBOX Pine-info GIS-list MOTO
5 msg. 16 msg. 200 msg. 2 msg.

or perhaps

INBOX [5] Pine-info [16] GIS-list [200] MOTO [2]

BTW: why does filter leave the original meg. in INBOX when I have it
parsed into a different folder?

Thanks,
Dan
*---------------------------------------------------------------------*
* Daniel D. Todd Packet: KC6UUD@KE6LW.#nocal.ca.usa *
* Internet: [email protected] *
* Snail Mail: 1750 Hanover #102 *
* Davis CA 95616 *
*---------------------------------------------------------------------*
* I do not speak for the University of California.... *
* and it sure as hell doesn't speak for me!! *
*---------------------------------------------------------------------*

From [email protected] Fri Jan 28 14:59:10 1994
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Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 14:17:23 -0800 (PST)
From: "Robert J. Taylor" <[email protected]>
Subject: Installation of pine on DG-UX system
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="0-1210235393-759796298:#5164"

--0-1210235393-759796298:#5164
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

We are attempting to install pine on a Data General Aviion 5500. Version
3.89 was obtained via ftp on Thursday, January 27. Ralph Sims at Halcyon
suggested sending a message to ask for assistance. The messages from the
make process are attached.

We are running version 5.4.2 of DG-UX. The 'cc' compiler runs gcc with
the -traditional flag set according to the man pages.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. If we are the first to use
pine on a DG box we would be glad to share the recipe with world when we
get it working.

Thanks!

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert J. Taylor E-mail: [email protected]
Delta Holding, Inc. Voice: (206)391-2000
Issaquah, Washington 98027 Fax: (206)392-9239
----------------------------------------------------------------------

--0-1210235393-759796298:#5164
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; name="pine3.txt"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64
Content-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Description: Sample of compile messages

CgoKSSBhbSBoYXZpbmcgcHJvYmxlbXMgaW4gdHJ5aW5nIHRvIGluc3RhbGwg
UGluZSBvbiBvdXIgREcvVVggc3lzdGVtCihEYXRhIEdlbmVyYWwgQVZpaU9O
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--0-1210235393-759796298:#5164--

From [email protected] Fri Jan 28 15:39:03 1994
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Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 15:15:23 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: ideas for pine
To: "Daniel D. Todd" <[email protected]>
Cc: pine-info <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Dan,

We are planning to extent the "Take address" command to look at more than
just the From: header. Our current internal developmental version of
Pine has an experimental command to cycle through your incoming folders
and count messages, but the performance of it is too bad to make it
automatic yet...

Thanks for the suggestions!

--DLM

P.S. The "filter" program from ELM has options to either leave a copy in
your inbox or not. See the filter docs for more info.

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Fri, 28 Jan 1994, Daniel D. Todd wrote:

> Well I've been using 3.89 for a month or so now. I think Ihave a couple
> of nice features that shouldn't be to hard to implement in the next version.
>
> 1) Have "Take address" take the To: address instead of the from address
> if you are in the sent-mail folder. This is useful if you initiate
> contact and never receive a reply. Or if you didn't initially plan on
> including the person in your address book but change your mind.
>
> 2) On start-up pine should check the contents of all of your "incoming
> mail boxes" so the display might look like this
>
> INBOX Pine-info GIS-list MOTO
> 5 msg. 16 msg. 200 msg. 2 msg.
>
> or perhaps
>
> INBOX [5] Pine-info [16] GIS-list [200] MOTO [2]
>
>
> BTW: why does filter leave the original meg. in INBOX when I have it
> parsed into a different folder?
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
> *---------------------------------------------------------------------*
> * Daniel D. Todd Packet: KC6UUD@KE6LW.#nocal.ca.usa *
> * Internet: [email protected] *
> * Snail Mail: 1750 Hanover #102 *
> * Davis CA 95616 *
> *---------------------------------------------------------------------*
> * I do not speak for the University of California.... *
> * and it sure as hell doesn't speak for me!! *
> *---------------------------------------------------------------------*
>
>

From [email protected] Fri Jan 28 15:49:03 1994
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Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 15:22:28 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Installation of pine on DG-UX system
To: "Robert J. Taylor" <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="0-114312706-759799348:#24507"

This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text,
while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.

--0-114312706-759799348:#24507
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

We have a contributed DG/UX port of Pine 3.86 that we have not rolled into
the distribution yet. If you would like to take a look at it I can send
a copy separately.

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Fri, 28 Jan 1994, Robert J. Taylor wrote:

> We are attempting to install pine on a Data General Aviion 5500. Version
> 3.89 was obtained via ftp on Thursday, January 27. Ralph Sims at Halcyon
> suggested sending a message to ask for assistance. The messages from the
> make process are attached.
>
> We are running version 5.4.2 of DG-UX. The 'cc' compiler runs gcc with
> the -traditional flag set according to the man pages.
>
> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. If we are the first to use
> pine on a DG box we would be glad to share the recipe with world when we
> get it working.
>
> Thanks!
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Robert J. Taylor E-mail: [email protected]
> Delta Holding, Inc. Voice: (206)391-2000
> Issaquah, Washington 98027 Fax: (206)392-9239
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
--0-114312706-759799348:#24507--

From [email protected] Fri Jan 28 16:09:30 1994
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Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 15:46:57 -0800 (GMT-0800)
From: VampLestat <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Clearing the INBOX
To: Mike Brudenell <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Mailing List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.87.9401281618.A18661-0100000@unix>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

> 2) Modify the Pine source code to call the mboxdriver routines *before*
> the bezerkdriver routines when it is initialising the list of mail
> drivers (I think it's in the main pine.c file from memory). [Basically
> it's a case of add one line in two places.]
>
> The mbox driver causes mail in the INBOX to be (silently) moved to a file
> called "mbox" in the user's home directory. This is then opened and
> treated as the INBOX.
>
> The upshot is that sendmail (or whatever) delivers mail to your system
> mail area (so you don't run into user quota problems). However as soon
> as the user starts Pine these messages get moved into their home
> directory (and so get charged against their personal disk quota). If
> there isn't enough disk quota an error message is displayed, and the new
> messages don't get shown (and so can't be read).
>
> One gotcha is that the code as supplied in the mbox.c file requires the
> presence of a (possibly empty, if not must be validly formatted) file called
> "mbox" in the home directory for the mail moving to occur. No doubt this
> can be easily changed along the lines of "If the file isn't there don't
> fail, just create one".
>
> The advantage of this approach is that unseen and read messages are still
> rationalised into one folder (still called INBOX within Pine, but
> actually $HOME/mbox) rather than forcing the split into totally separate
> folders. It also means that users can't get round it by overrinding the
> systemwide variable setting in their .pinerc file!
>
> We're looking at trying this out on a few of our own Staff, but need to
> be sure it'll work before doing it to users. ... It's a bit of a one-way
> street to go down!

We've done this, and so far things look fine. Its also helped out alot
by reducing all the mail that normally gets left in the spool, which
overflowed a while bnack, causing some chaos.

_O_ Ryan L. Watkins [email protected]
| Academic Computing Services Cal State Long Beach - Network Support
| pgp key available via 'finger [email protected]' or key server

From [email protected] Fri Jan 28 18:15:16 1994
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Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 21:00:30 -0500 (EST)
From: "Dennis H. H. Wu" <[email protected]>
Subject: Removing
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Hi, Dear Sir,

Would you remove me from the pine-info list.
Thank you very much.

e-mail: [email protected]

From [email protected] Sat Jan 29 15:15:20 1994
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Date: Sat, 29 Jan 1994 18:02:35 -0500 (EST)
From: Alex Tang <[email protected]>
Subject: NFS/Locking?
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Hi. this has probably been discussed before, but I was wondering how
user-contention locking works when the user's spool directory is
NFS-mounted. Particularly, I have my spool directory NFS mounted to a
bunch of different machines. Normally, If I open two pine sessions from
the same machine, the first session gets the lock taken away, and the
INBOX becomres Read Only. I just noticed that if I start pine from
machine a, and while it is open, start a pine session from machine b (that
has the same spool dir), they both have Read/Write access to the inbox.
Am I doing something wrong?

Thanx.
..alex...
Alex Tang --- [email protected]@UMICHUM.BITNET
-----------+ U of M, SNRE: Student and Computer Consultant II,
PGP on req.| ITD/CSS Consultant, Short asian with long hair :)
WWW -> http://www.css.itd.umich.edu/users/altitude/

From [email protected] Sat Jan 29 16:13:51 1994
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Date: Sat, 29 Jan 1994 16:01:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: NFS/Locking?
To: Alex Tang <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Sat, 29 Jan 1994, Alex Tang wrote:
> Hi. this has probably been discussed before, but I was wondering how
> user-contention locking works when the user's spool directory is
> NFS-mounted. Particularly, I have my spool directory NFS mounted to a
> bunch of different machines. Normally, If I open two pine sessions from
> the same machine, the first session gets the lock taken away, and the
> INBOX becomres Read Only. I just noticed that if I start pine from
> machine a, and while it is open, start a pine session from machine b (that
> has the same spool dir), they both have Read/Write access to the inbox.
> Am I doing something wrong?

Yes, you are doing something wrong, regrettably. You are using NFS for
remote mail access instead of IMAP.

We understand that NFS access of mail is popular at many sites, and we go
to great lengths to try to make it work. However, there are technical
limitations which severely restrict our ability to do so. We believe
that Pine works as well over NFS as other UNIX mail tools; unfortunately,
we are (at least for the time being) unable to make NFS access via Pine
work at the same high standard we have for local access.

Pine's locking against multiple simultaneous read/write sessions only
works with local files. It does not work over NFS. At best, Pine is
reduced to the same level of interlocking as ordinary UNIX mail utilities
have; however, note that in certain circumstances that translates into
*no* locking at all.

Pine does try pretty hard to detect the situation in which locking has
failed and another mailer has stepped on Pine. Unless Pine is absolutely
sure what it is doing is safe, it will decline to write to the mail file.

From [email protected] Sun Jan 30 11:32:20 1994
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Date: Sun, 30 Jan 1994 19:10:52 +0000 (GMT)
From: Barry Landy <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: ideas for pine
To: "Daniel D. Todd" <[email protected]>
Cc: pine-info <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Fri, 28 Jan 1994, Daniel D. Todd wrote:

> Well I've been using 3.89 for a month or so now. I think Ihave a couple
> of nice features that shouldn't be to hard to implement in the next version.
>
> 1) Have "Take address" take the To: address instead of the from address
> if you are in the sent-mail folder. This is useful if you initiate
> contact and never receive a reply. Or if you didn't initially plan on
> including the person in your address book but change your mind.
>
Careful now! Any folder (except INBOX) can contain messages received and
messages sent; equally there is no such thing as "the sent-mail folder";
PINE is configurable, and these things can be called what the user
chooses. The right feature, which I would certainly like, is that the
Take function takes the sender from received mail and the addressee from
sent mail.
A slightly more bells and whistles version would give a choice, but I
would be happy with that simple upgrade.

> 2) On start-up pine should check the contents of all of your "incoming
> mail boxes" so the display might look like this
>
> INBOX Pine-info GIS-list MOTO
> 5 msg. 16 msg. 200 msg. 2 msg.
>
> or perhaps
>
> INBOX [5] Pine-info [16] GIS-list [200] MOTO [2]
>
Nice, but low priority in my book.

>
> BTW: why does filter leave the original meg. in INBOX when I have it
> parsed into a different folder?
>
It does not for me (using the elm filter); have you used the right primitive?

=======================================================================
Barry Landy, Head of Systems and Development,
University of Cambridge Computing Service
[email protected] 0223-334713 +44-223-334713

From [email protected] Mon Jan 31 05:53:31 1994
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Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 13:30:47 GMT
From: John Stumbles <[email protected]>
Subject: PC Pico enhancement
To: Pine User Group <[email protected]>
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I keep finding myself using Control with the left- and right-arrow keys to
try to get around: this is pretty standard key-binding in PC editors -
could it be implemented in PICO?

John Stumbles [email protected]
Reading University 0734 318435
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

From [email protected] Mon Jan 31 06:59:59 1994
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id <[email protected]>; Mon, 31 Jan 1994 14:31:38 +0000
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 14:31:32 +0000 (GMT)
From: Mike Roch <[email protected]>
Subject: PC-Pine and PC-NFS
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <Pine.3.88.9401311429.A9981-0100000@suma3>
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Would anyone who's got this combination working successfully be kind
enough to let us have copies of their config.sys/autoexec.bat (etc). We're
having problems getting this to work.

Thanks

Mike

==============================================================================
Mike Roch, Computer Services Centre, Tel: 0734 318430
The University, Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AF Fax: 0734 753094

------------------------------ End of forwarded message 1

From [email protected] Mon Jan 31 07:10:07 1994
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Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 09:41:38 -0500 (EST)
From: Jeff Traigle <[email protected]>
Subject: Saving sent mail
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I've been using Pine for a while now after using Elm for many years. One
feature of Elm that I miss is being able to have sent mail saved by
username. I haven't seen anything in the Pine docs that mentioned being
able to do this (though it's certainly possible that I missed it). Can
this be done currently? If not, is a possible additional feature for some
future version?

=============================================================================
| Jeff Traigle | Systems Administrator | University of Michigan |
=============================================================================
| College of Pharmacy | Biophysics Research Division |
=============================================================================
| Masters of Science in Computer Science and Engineering |
=============================================================================
| Masters of Information and Library Studies |
=============================================================================

From [email protected] Mon Jan 31 08:46:06 1994
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Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 08:25:59 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Saving sent mail
To: Jeff Traigle <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Jeff,

No, we do not currently have an FCC-folder-name-rule, but it is on the
list for a future release.

Thanks for the suggestion!

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Mon, 31 Jan 1994, Jeff Traigle wrote:

>
> I've been using Pine for a while now after using Elm for many years. One
> feature of Elm that I miss is being able to have sent mail saved by
> username. I haven't seen anything in the Pine docs that mentioned being
> able to do this (though it's certainly possible that I missed it). Can
> this be done currently? If not, is a possible additional feature for some
> future version?
>
> =============================================================================
> | Jeff Traigle | Systems Administrator | University of Michigan |
> =============================================================================
> | College of Pharmacy | Biophysics Research Division |
> =============================================================================
> | Masters of Science in Computer Science and Engineering |
> =============================================================================
> | Masters of Information and Library Studies |
> =============================================================================
>
>

From [email protected] Mon Jan 31 11:18:21 1994
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Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 12:13:26 -0600 (CST)
From: "Isaias Callejas Mancilla." <[email protected]>
Reply-To: "Isaias Callejas Mancilla." <[email protected]>
Subject: Printing from an user program...
To: The PINE List <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Hi all,
I am configuring my environment from Printer Setup, in the option
<3> called "Personally selected print command" I put my printer program
called "hello" (for example)..
"hello" can work as :

%hello <file name> <enter>
if $1 exist then # $1 == file name
print

or

%hello <enter>
File Name : <file name> <enter> #read variable...
if file exist then
print

PINE not put the message into an file.... then what can I do for
print my messages from "hello" program...??? I can do it??
I am working on PINE 3.87...

Thank's in advance...

/#### E. Isaias Callejas M.
/# /######## System Administrator
/## /########## Coordination of Computing Services
### /## ### Academic Computing, National University of Mexico
### ######### ### ==================================================
### ##/ ### University City, Mexico D.F.
##########/ ##/ E-mail : [email protected]
########/ #/ Phone : (5)6 22 85 22 << MIME is Welcome!!! >>
####/

From [email protected] Mon Jan 31 12:52:14 1994
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Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 15:27:57 -0500 (EST)
From: Paul Holbrook <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Clearing the INBOX
To: VampLestat <[email protected]>
Cc: Mike Brudenell <[email protected]>,
Pine Mailing List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

FYI, we've been running using the MBOX driver (moves the mail from
/var/spool/mail to a file named mbox in the user's home directory) for
about 1.5 years (back to Summer 92) on about 100-300 accounts. We've had
no problems over the time.

To address the problem that there needs to be an MBOX file in the home
directory, we create one when we create the user's account.

J. Paul Holbrook
CICNet Network Services Manager
[email protected] (313) 998-7680

From [email protected] Mon Jan 31 17:30:24 1994
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Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 17:14:13 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Printing from an user program...
To: "Isaias Callejas Mancilla." <[email protected]>
Cc: The PINE List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Isaias,

Try "| cat > /tmp/prtfile ; hello /tmp/prtfile ; rm /tmp/prtfile". It's a
bit long, but it should work.

--DLM

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Mon, 31 Jan 1994, Isaias Callejas Mancilla. wrote:

> Hi all,
> I am configuring my environment from Printer Setup, in the option
> <3> called "Personally selected print command" I put my printer program
> called "hello" (for example)..
> "hello" can work as :
>
> %hello <file name> <enter>
> if $1 exist then # $1 == file name
> print
>
> or
>
> %hello <enter>
> File Name : <file name> <enter> #read variable...
> if file exist then
> print
>
> PINE not put the message into an file.... then what can I do for
> print my messages from "hello" program...??? I can do it??
> I am working on PINE 3.87...
>
> Thank's in advance...
>
> /#### E. Isaias Callejas M.
> /# /######## System Administrator
> /## /########## Coordination of Computing Services
> ### /## ### Academic Computing, National University of Mexico
> ### ######### ### ==================================================
> ### ##/ ### University City, Mexico D.F.
> ##########/ ##/ E-mail : [email protected]
> ########/ #/ Phone : (5)6 22 85 22 << MIME is Welcome!!! >>
> ####/
>
>

From [email protected] Mon Jan 31 18:58:17 1994
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Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 11:56:44 +1100 (EST)
From: Charlie Brady <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Saving sent mail
To: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9402011152.F26622-0100000@sydte3>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 31 Jan 1994, David L Miller wrote:

> Jeff,
>
> No, we do not currently have an FCC-folder-name-rule, but it is on the
> list for a future release.
>
> Thanks for the suggestion!
>
> --DLM
>
> |\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
>
> On Mon, 31 Jan 1994, Jeff Traigle wrote:
> >
> > I've been using Pine for a while now after using Elm for many years. One
> > feature of Elm that I miss is being able to have sent mail saved by
> > username.

I like to do this, too, and do it by periodically redistributing sent-mail
using an alternative .pinerc with a different saved-msg-name-rule. It's
a bit tedious, and means that mail to/from a user ends up in a jumbled
order in a folder. I thought having a sort order by Date rather than
Arrival would deal with that conveniently.

Since I don't archive all outgoing mail, it's probably better to be able
to re-distribute it from sent-mail than to re-distribute it as it goes
out, but it would be handy if I could change the saved-msg-name-rule
at run time, or have a rule to save by-correspondent, i.e. by-sender on
received mail and by-from on sent mail.

Charlie Brady * (W) [email protected] * (H) [email protected]
"Make it as simple as possible - | Tel: (02) 413 6838 ____Telectronics__| /\__
but no simpler" Einstein, A | Fax: (02) 413 6868 Pacing Systems \/

From [email protected] Mon Jan 31 19:53:11 1994
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Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 22:35:16 -0500 (EST)
From: Dan Mandell <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine 3.87 .pine-debug problem
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Our HP 9000 Series 827 running hpux 9.0 had its /users file system
recently fill up because of the creation of a single huge .pine-debug
file. The file was lost in the recovery process, but upon running a
search for other such files I noticed another 10 MB .pine-debug. (Nb. we
haven't set quota's on student directories.) I have just the tail from
this last file...should it be of interest. I've not had any other
problems but wondered whether this is a known problem.

If this is the wrong place to post such messages please let me know...

Dan
====
.... first part of the file is missing...... the last 200 bytes ...

** Error reading from tty : Interrupted system call

** Error reading from tty : Interrupted system call

** Error reading from tty : Interrupted system call

** Received SIGUSR2 **

** INBOX went read-only **

** Error reading from tty : Interrupted system call

** Error reading from tty : I/O error

about to end_tty_driver

--
=====================================
Dan Mandell, Computer Services, Saint Mary's College
Internet: [email protected]

"Always promise a little less than you can deliver" : Montaigne

From [email protected] Mon Jan 31 21:33:32 1994
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Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 21:19:06 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine 3.87 .pine-debug problem
To: Dan Mandell <[email protected]>
Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Dan,

That bug is fixed in Pine 3.89.

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Mon, 31 Jan 1994, Dan Mandell wrote:

>
> Our HP 9000 Series 827 running hpux 9.0 had its /users file system
> recently fill up because of the creation of a single huge .pine-debug
> file. The file was lost in the recovery process, but upon running a
> search for other such files I noticed another 10 MB .pine-debug. (Nb. we
> haven't set quota's on student directories.) I have just the tail from
> this last file...should it be of interest. I've not had any other
> problems but wondered whether this is a known problem.
>
> If this is the wrong place to post such messages please let me know...
>
> Dan
> ====
> ..... first part of the file is missing...... the last 200 bytes ...
>
> ** Error reading from tty : Interrupted system call
>
> ** Error reading from tty : Interrupted system call
>
> ** Error reading from tty : Interrupted system call
>
> ** Received SIGUSR2 **
>
> ** INBOX went read-only **
>
> ** Error reading from tty : Interrupted system call
>
> ** Error reading from tty : I/O error
>
> about to end_tty_driver
>
> --
> =====================================
> Dan Mandell, Computer Services, Saint Mary's College
> Internet: [email protected]
>
> "Always promise a little less than you can deliver" : Montaigne
>
>
>
>
>
>