From [email protected]  Fri Oct  1 00:09:13 1993
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 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for [email protected]); Fri, 1 Oct 1993 15:30:36 +1000
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1993 15:25:09 +1000 (EST)
From: Jack Churchill <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Extracting 'dead' attachments
To: "Stephen F. Day [Med Ctr Comp Svcs]" <[email protected]>
Cc: NEIL J LONG <[email protected]>, [email protected],
       "Stephen F. Day [Med Ctr Comp Svcs]" <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Thu, 30 Sep 1993, Stephen F. Day [Med Ctr Comp Svcs] wrote:

> >Since the VAX mailer cannot forward MIME attachments nor can it read them I
> >wondered if someone has a simple program to decode the extracted attachments.
> >I guess there are a lot of people who have VAX/VMS accounts who will be facing
> >a similar problem as MIME attachments increase in popularity and a VAX port
> >of pine seems as far away as ever.
>
> Although VMS Mail (a *very* out-dated mail system that DEC should seriously
> think about revamping!) cannot handle MIME, we have found that Innosoft's PMDF
> MAIL product can.  I am hoping that Innosoft might someday beef this product up
> with a menu interface comparable to Elm or Pine or Gold Mail.

I agree totally with your sentiments but one thing must be made clear for
correctness.  VMS mail does have an undocumented feature to send base64
encoded files.  It works to a MIME mailer but unfortunately it doesn't
work the other way, i.e., VMS mail won't recognise a MIME attachment (only
from another VMS-mailed attachemnt).  For some strange reason DEC desided
to stall on the base64 feature about the time MIME started to become
known and popular.  As usual DEC does it first but no follow through.

 Jack N. Churchill                         | [email protected]
 CSIRO  Division of Exploration and Mining | [email protected]
 PO Box 136  North Ryde  NSW  2113         | Phone:  +61 2 887 8884
 Australia                                 | Fax:    +61 2 887 8921



From [email protected]  Fri Oct  1 00:34:07 1993
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         id <[email protected]>; Fri, 1 Oct 1993 08:19:24 +0100
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1993 08:17:42 +0100 (BST)
From: Laurie Cuthbert <[email protected]>
Subject: pine 3.86
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.85.9310010842.A9320-0100000@osprey>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

A suggestion for the next maintenance release - could we make the
location of rimapd configureable in the "build"

We like to keep locally installed stuff separate and hence install in
/usr/local/sbin.

At present we edit the source, but a configuration option would be tidier.

Regards

Laurie Cuthbert



From [email protected]  Fri Oct  1 02:26:31 1993
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         id <[email protected]>; Fri, 1 Oct 1993 10:11:35 +0100
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1993 10:05:35 +0100 (BST)
From: Dave King <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Dave King <[email protected]>
Subject: Delete old sent-mail problem (Pine 3.85 on DYNIX PTX 2.0.4)
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

This morning (1st October) the usual "Delete old sent mail" question
appeared to take a l-o-n-g time to do it's job, i.e. hang. To overcome
the problem I used Pine 3.07 to satisfy Pine's requests for dealing with
previous months' sent-mail files.

I know you're running PTX at Washington, but are you running PTX 2.0.4 and
had the same problem?


Dave

PS Other than that, Pine is fine!

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave King, Admin. Computing Services Manager, University of Bristol
Email: [email protected]  (JANET)
Email: [email protected]  (INTERNET)
Tel:   0272 303961 (Direct Line)








From [email protected]  Fri Oct  1 03:03:14 1993
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         id <[email protected]>; Fri, 1 Oct 1993 10:53:31 +0100
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1993 10:49:06 +0100 (MET)
From: Steinar Haug <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Delete old sent-mail problem (Pine 3.85 on DYNIX PTX 2.0.4)
To: Dave King <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.85.9310011006.D18185-0100000@runix>
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> This morning (1st October) the usual "Delete old sent mail" question
> appeared to take a l-o-n-g time to do it's job, i.e. hang. To overcome
> the problem I used Pine 3.07 to satisfy Pine's requests for dealing with
> previous months' sent-mail files.
>
> I know you're running PTX at Washington, but are you running PTX 2.0.4 and
> had the same problem?

I had exactly the same problem today, running 3.85 on SunOS 4.1.3 machines.
Seemed to hang forever.

As an aside, I prefer to save old mail for a long time. It would be nice
if Pine did *not* ask if I wanted to delete the old mail folder for *each
and every* sent-mail-xxx-1993 folder I have! Is there any way to avoid these
questions?

Steinar Haug, system/networks administrator
SINTEF RUNIT, University of Trondheim, NORWAY
Email: [email protected], [email protected]



From [email protected]  Fri Oct  1 03:05:19 1993
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Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1993 09:43:10 +0100 (BST)
From: Roger Gawley <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: newsgroup rather than mailing list ?
To: Mike Ramey <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine-Info Email List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII



On Thu, 30 Sep 1993, Mike Ramey wrote:

> Would it be useful to conduct the pine-info discussion on a newsgroup
> rather than via mailing list?  (Heresy?)

NO (sorry, I cannot find any bigger letters on my keyboard)

Mail is available to all and fairly fast. News is available only to some
and is variable but mostly slow.

                                           I might want to suggest to a
> colleague that they look at a message (article) which I have deleted.
> With the mailing list, it's gone; with a newsgroup, it's available
> (at least for a while).  -mr


Have you heard of a program called mailbase? Written at the University of
Newcastle upon Tyne (just down the road from me), it was conceived as a
LISTSERV program for unix but is now much more. It functions as a mailing
list expander but you can also archive the messages and read them using
gopher. [Type gopher mailbase.ac.uk to see examples.]

The program is free to UK eduactional establishment because of its
funding. [email protected] could say what the position is for
foreigners.



From [email protected]  Fri Oct  1 04:24:09 1993
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         id <[email protected]>; Fri, 1 Oct 1993 13:06:43 +0100
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1993 12:07:07 +0100 (BST)
From: "D.K.Brownlee" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: newsgroup rather than mailing list ?
To: Pine Info <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.07.9310011206.A18217-9100000@Hove>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Can we gateway it to a newsgroup, so that people who want to read it via news
can, and the rest of us can stick with email?


     [email protected]. Network Analyst. Postmaster. Hostmaster.
       <_.-^-._>  Telephone: (+44) 71 477 8000 Ext:3757.  <_.-^-._>
Snailmail: E308, City University, Northampton Sq, Islington, London ECIV 0HB.




From [email protected]  Fri Oct  1 04:24:56 1993
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 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for [email protected]); Fri, 1 Oct 1993 07:15:13 -0400
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1993 06:51:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mike Stok <[email protected]>
Subject: 3.85 delete old sent-mail slow?
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

It's the beginning of the month...  and I am being asked about deleting
my old mail by pine.  With 3.85 this seems to take ages, moving the
sent-mail to sent-mail-sep-1993 was OK, but it seems to take about 30+
seconds to digest my "n" answer to 'Remove sent-mail-???-1992', then even
longer (maybe 90 sec) to *not* delete sent-mail-aug-1992, then another
long period to deal with Sep 1992...  It even seems to take a long time
(a minute or more) to put up the No when I type "n" at the propmt.

This is an annoyance to me 'cos I keep a couple of years of mail lurking
around by default.  For now I can kill pine, rename all the sent-mail-*
folders to something else, re-start pine.  It fit *my* working pattern if
all pine did was to move the sent-mail and then not ask about deleting
mail (another addition to the feature list?).

I am running 3.85 (with both patches) under SunOS 4.1.3 on a Sun 4c.  The
CPU meter on the local machine and the remote machine both seem to be at
about 0.  Sorry if this is one of those problems that loads of people
report as they get into work in the morning today :-)

Still, loads of features about 3.85 are really excellent (tab completion
of folder names, folder collections, saved-name-rule, ...).  Thanks again.

Mike

--
The "usual disclaimers" apply.    | Meiko
Mike Stok                         | Reservoir Place
[email protected]     | 1601 Trapelo Road
Meiko tel: (617) 890 7676         | Waltham, MA 02154




From [email protected]  Fri Oct  1 05:20:43 1993
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Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1993 19:53:30 +0800 (TPE)
From: Ed Greshko <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Delete old sent-mail problem (Pine 3.85 on DYNIX PTX 2.0.4)
To: Steinar Haug <[email protected]>
Cc: Dave King <[email protected]>, [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.85.9310011006.D18185-0100000@runix>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Fri, 1 Oct 1993, Steinar Haug wrote:

> > This morning (1st October) the usual "Delete old sent mail" question
> > appeared to take a l-o-n-g time to do it's job, i.e. hang. To overcome
> > the problem I used Pine 3.07 to satisfy Pine's requests for dealing with
> > previous months' sent-mail files.
> >
> > I know you're running PTX at Washington, but are you running PTX 2.0.4 and
> > had the same problem?
>
> I had exactly the same problem today, running 3.85 on SunOS 4.1.3 machines.
> Seemed to hang forever.
>
> As an aside, I prefer to save old mail for a long time. It would be nice
> if Pine did *not* ask if I wanted to delete the old mail folder for *each
> and every* sent-mail-xxx-1993 folder I have! Is there any way to avoid these
> questions?

       I had NO problem with this on a MIPS platform.

Edward M. Greshko                       Control Data Taiwan
Voice: +886-2-715-2222 x287             6/F, 131 Nanking East Road, Section 3
FAX  : +886-2-712-9197                  Taipei, Taiwan R.O.C




From [email protected]  Fri Oct  1 05:32:41 1993
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Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1993 08:15:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael A. Crowley" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Delete old sent-mail problem (Pine 3.85 on DYNIX PTX 2.0.4)
To: Steinar Haug <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.85.9310011006.D18185-0100000@runix>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


On Fri, 1 Oct 1993, Steinar Haug wrote:
....
> As an aside, I prefer to save old mail for a long time. It would be nice
> if Pine did *not* ask if I wanted to delete the old mail folder for *each
> and every* sent-mail-xxx-1993 folder I have! Is there any way to avoid these
> questions?
>

Adding a digit in your .pinerc effectively stops it from ever asking
the questions:
--------------------------------------------------------------
# Date last time you were asked about deleting old sent-mail
last-time-prune-questioned=392.8
--------------------------------------------------------------
mike




From [email protected]  Fri Oct  1 05:35:33 1993
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       id AA20310; Fri, 1 Oct 93 08:27:22 -0400
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1993 08:20:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael A. Crowley" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: newsgroup rather than mailing list ?
To: Roger Gawley <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine-Info Email List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


On Fri, 1 Oct 1993, Roger Gawley wrote:
>
> On Thu, 30 Sep 1993, Mike Ramey wrote:
> > Would it be useful to conduct the pine-info discussion on a newsgroup
> > rather than via mailing list?  (Heresy?)
>
> NO (sorry, I cannot find any bigger letters on my keyboard)
>
> Mail is available to all and fairly fast. News is available only to some
> and is variable but mostly slow.

Mailing lists and news are not mutually exclusive and news, for some,
has very rapid distribution.  Many lists are sent into and out of news.
I'm not sure which way I would end up preferring, but I wouldn't mind
having the choice.

mike




From [email protected]  Fri Oct  1 06:38:50 1993
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         id <[email protected]>; Fri, 1 Oct 1993 14:27:06 +0100
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1993 05:54:44 PDT
From: Erik Lawaetz <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Erik Lawaetz <[email protected]>
Subject: ESC key in PC-pine
To: [email protected]
X-Sender: [email protected]
Message-Id: <PCPine_f.3.85.9310010527.D6288-0100000@pc031>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

I haven't been following the discussion on PC-pine thoroughly enough to
know if this has been suggested already, but after about 10 minutes of
usage I already miss something badly. The ability for the ESC key to take
me back, e.g. from the addrbook to the main menu. All I get know is an
annoyin beep.

--Erik




From [email protected]  Fri Oct  1 06:52:19 1993
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Received: from INFOODS.UNU.EDU by INFOODS.UNU.EDU (PMDF V4.2-13 #2603) id
<[email protected]>; Fri, 1 Oct 1993 09:37:06 EDT
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1993 09:37:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: John C Klensin <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: MIME character sets, and an apology
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected], [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
X-Envelope-To: [email protected]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Mail-System-Version: <MultiNet-MM(330)+TOPSLIB(156)+PMDF(4.2)@INFOODS.UNU.EDU>

Thanks Ned, for that posting.  One thing I probably should add to what
I said yesterday.

The current theory about what to do about the proliferation of MIME-
defined character sets is to start issuing Applicability Statements at
some point that identify things as, e.g., "good", "not-so-good", and
"probably you shouldn't use this trash".  Now IETF has been a lot better
at talking about A/Ss than about doing them.  And the feeling has been
to let experience accumulate for some months before trying to get serious
about this one.

However, if someone has a theory on which such a document could be built,
I'd be happy to see a draft proposal.

In the meantime and thereafter, mail systems must be prepared to receive
character set specifications they haven't heard of before and to handle
them in a fairly graceful way.  And the meaning of "graceful" is very much
a matter of taste.

   --john


From [email protected]  Fri Oct  1 07:58:32 1993
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Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1993 08:58:35 -0500 (CDT)
From: Ken Hardy <[email protected]>
Subject: newsgroup rather than mailing list ? (fwd)
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <Pine.3.85.9310010835.A21756-0100000@ernie>
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>rather than via mailing list?  (Heresy?)  I might want to suggest to a
>colleague that they look at a message (article) which I have deleted.
>With the mailing list, it's gone; with a newsgroup, it's available
>(at least for a while).  -mr

I have a couple of mailing lists that I have redirected to a file as
well as to my inbox.  Said file needs to be trimmed by hand, but not
very often if you have the disk space (I trim sometimes only at the
first of the year.)

I don't know if you can do this (depends on your system & your
privilege), but here is what I've done, e.g.  I've subscribed to the
firewalls mailing list as user "firewalls".  Then I put these aliases
into the aliases file on my mail gateway:

   firewalls: fwall_folks, fwall_file
   fwall_folks: ken,max
   fwall_file: /home/ken/security/firewall-list

The mail to "firewalls" gets split to "fwall_folks" and "fwall_file".
You can see that Ken & Max get the list in their inboxes, and the
traffic goes to a file under my home directory as well.  This file can
be read as a mail folder.

I encourage all users here to subscribe to lists in this way whether or
not the redirection to a file is used; local readers can be added to
and subtracted from the list without bothering the mailing list
maintainer, and only 1 copy of each article needs to be sent &
received.  This is how I subcribe to the Pine mailing list (it doesn't
go to a file.)


Ken Hardy
[email protected]  (racerx!ken) --__-_____--__-__--_--__-___-__-__-___----



From [email protected]  Fri Oct  1 08:16:25 1993
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Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1993 09:39:58 -0500 (EST)
From: Shan Duncan <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Delete old sent-mail problem (Pine 3.85 on DYNIX PTX 2.0.4)
To: [email protected]
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On Fri, 1 Oct 1993, Dave King wrote:

> Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1993 10:05:35 +0100 (BST)
> From: Dave King <[email protected]>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Delete old sent-mail problem (Pine 3.85 on DYNIX PTX 2.0.4)
>
> This morning (1st October) the usual "Delete old sent mail" question
> appeared to take a l-o-n-g time to do it's job, i.e. hang. To overcome
> the problem I used Pine 3.07 to satisfy Pine's requests for dealing with
> previous months' sent-mail files.



   Same problem but running on a RS6000 530H and AIX 3.2.4 with each
question taking longer and longer...

Switched back to 3.07 and had no problems.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Shan Duncan                                [email protected]
CISAB- Indiana University                     [email protected]
402 N. Park Ave
Bloomington,  IN.  47405
(812) 855-5895         (812) 855-9663 (main office)    (812) 855-0411 (FAX)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------






From [email protected]  Fri Oct  1 08:53:43 1993
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Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1993 09:38:16 -0600 (MDT)
From: "Paul G. Leo Jr." <[email protected]>
Subject: delete sent-mail under 3.85
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
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i'm experiencing same problem regarding slowness in delete sendmail --

the platform is different though -- decstation 3000 running ultrix v4.2

pine's great!!!!


Paul Leo                                e-mail  [email protected]
University of Utah Medical School               [email protected]
Eccles Institute of Human Genetics
Building 533 Room 2100                  phone   801-585-3653
Salt Lake City, Utah 84106              fax     801-585-3910



From [email protected]  Fri Oct  1 08:56:07 1993
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         id <[email protected]>; Fri, 1 Oct 1993 16:40:52 +0100
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1993 16:38:12 +0100 (BST)
From: Mike Roch <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Mike Roch <[email protected]>
Subject: inbox-path in /usr/local/lib/pine-conf
To: [email protected]
Cc: Neal Curran x8432 <[email protected]>,
       Adrian Bassett x8432 <[email protected]>
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We have a Solaris machine and ~100 SunOS 4.1.n other machines.

For the moment we're happy to run Pine in binary-compatibility mode on
Solaris, but the mail spool is in /var/mail and not /var/spool/mail.

The actual mailboxes (held on SunOS 4) are mounted by the Solaris machine
at /var/mail. Our problem is how to allow users (who move from one machine
to another) to see their mail. We don't really want to use IMAP; why make
them "login again"? If they edit "inbox-path" to /var/mail/_username_
they're Ok until they switch machines. If we setup inbox-path in
/usr/local/lib/pine-conf on the Solaris machine, we can't name each user's
- we need to be able to say /var/spool/$USER or somesuch). If we link
/var/spool/mail to /var/mail then Barry Cornelius reports locking
problems.(See below)  Advice please!

Mike

==============================================================================
Mike Roch, Computer Services Centre,                          Tel: 0734 318430
The University, Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AF                Fax: 0734 753094

Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1993 18:47:01 +0000 (GMT)
From: Barry Cornelius <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Pine and Solaris

It is possible to run SunOS 4.1.x binaries with SunOS 5.1 (which is part
of Solaris 2.1) if you use the Binary Compatibility Package.  I have tried
this with a SunOS 4.1.x binary of pine.  Most aspects of pine will work.
For example, this message was sent from a 4.1.2 binary running on a
machine with SunOS 5.1.

However, I found a problem with file locking.  This problem occurs in two
places:
   (1) if you use NFS to mount /var/spool/mail rather than use
       IMAP, then pine hangs on starting it up. For example, you can't
       get the mail index, and there is a lock on your mailbox;
   (2) if you use the g command to goto a folder, then pine hangs:
       there is a lock on the file containing the folder.






From [email protected]  Fri Oct  1 09:16:02 1993
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Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1993 08:39:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: ^J <=> ^M confusion with Pico (1.6, 2.0) on NeXTSTEP 2.1
To: Pekka Kytolaakso <[email protected]>
Cc: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>,
       Joseph Brennan <[email protected]>,
       [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
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On Thu, 30 Sep 1993, Pekka Kytolaakso wrote:

> Your message dated: Thu, 30 Sep 1993 12:10:32 MST
> > On Thu, 30 Sep 1993 13:17:43 -0400 (EDT), Joseph Brennan wrote:
> > > Has someone got a fix for the Mac NCSA Telnet problem with ^J ?  It's=
been
> > > making us crazy here.  I actually modified Pico/Pine to avoid ^J as a
> > > command but that'll be annoying to do with each release.  If I can in=
stall
> > > a standard 3.85 I'd be happy.
> >=20
> A way (hack :-) might be to add a configuration parameter (yes, one more)
> like=20
>=20
> # fill-command defines the control chacter used to fill paragraphs
> # the default value is 11 (^J), 0 means fill no in use=20
> fill-command=3D
>=20
A much better solution would be to provide a general keyboard remapping=20
capability (and not much more work).

> The problems with this are
> =09- screen-menu shows ^J as fill (runtime change)
> =09- help file has wrong key (must edit help-file)
>=20
> Neither of these are serious because when a user changes this he should
> now what the fill command is.
>=20
> I just looked and found a problem with this. There are few free keys. I
> think ^W and ^] are about the only unused ones. A way around this would m=
e to
> make some key (like ^X) a prefix-key and make some seldom-used
> functions two-key commands. I can suggest several like spell (^X^S),
> read (^X^R), postpone (^X^P), send (^X^C),... . If pressing the prefix
> (^X) changes the menu at the bottom of the screen tit isn't much harder
> to use that pine/pico now are (and most people need to know emacs anyway)=

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