From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon Aug 2 01:38:42 1993

From [email protected] Mon Aug 2 01:38:42 1993
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Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1993 01:21:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Arrow Keys and Pine ...
To: Alex Chan - Admin <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected], alexc%[email protected]
In-Reply-To: <9307311235.AA30757@merint>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
References: <sdlkfjslkdjfklsdjflks@sdlkfjslkdjf> <sdlkfj@sdlkfj> <0909099009@09090909> <jhjhjjhjh@jhjhjhhj> <878787878@87878787> <3343434@2323232> <12121212@1212121> <lklklklklkl@lklklklklklklklklkllklklklklklklklklklklklklklkkl> <9307311235.AA30757@merint>
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Hello Alex,
The cursor keys work in vi because vi doesn't need ^J, ^K, ^L and ^H for
anything else where Pine uses then for justify, kill line, redraw and
destructive backspace. There's really not much you can do about this other
than hack the code to rebind these functions to obscure control keys like
^_, ^^, ^\ and ^@ so you can use those control keys for the arrow keys.
.. but watch out for future versions of Pine/Pico that use those keys
too. There's a real shortage of control keys.

I think there was someone that made these changes once. If they've got
'em in the form of patches I think they could be included as contributed
additions in the Pine source. (send them to [email protected], as
MIME attachments of course).

LL

On 31 Jul 1993, Alex Chan - Admin wrote:
>
> We have just inherited 20 wyse50 technology terminals, and the
> cursor keys do not work on those terminals. How could one
> adjust pine to allow the usage of the cursor keys ? Or adjust
> the terminfo or termcap file to get the right settings. But the odd
> thing is that /usr/bin/vi works fine with those wyse50 terminals with
> those arrow keys. I guess the termcap and terminfo entries on our
> IBM RS6000 is correct.
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
>

From [email protected] Mon Aug 2 02:19:35 1993
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Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1993 10:08:18 +0100 (BST)
From: Mike Roch <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Mike Roch <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Arrow Keys and Pine ...
To: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected], alexc <@uunet.UU.NET:alexc@merint>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.07.9308020943.E18857-a100000@suma2>
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Hi Laurence,

I once hacked Pine 3.05 source so that we could use a Televideo terminal
(of which we have dozens). These generate ^J,^K,^L,^H for
down,up,right,left arrow, and can't be reprogrammed (as far as we know).

My hack involved sacrificing attach(by keystroke)/justify, kill-line,
redraw-screen and del-with-^h; annoying but still giving most of Pine's
functionality to people cursed by these museum pieces. Speaking of curses,
people tell me that "Curses" could somehow solve this sort of problem.

I have the fixed source files if they are of any help to anyone.

Mike

==============================================================================
Mike Roch, Computer Services Centre, Tel: 0734 318430
The University, Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AH. Fax: 0734 753094

From [email protected] Tue Aug 3 21:39:00 1993
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From: Alex Nishri <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Pine w PPP/SLIP, Annex servers, and modems?
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1993 00:23:53 -0400
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I am considering setting up PC Pine for a group of very important people at this
University, who alas, do not have any network connection yet. I'm thinking of
running PC Pine with Novell's WFD TCP/IP, either PPP or SLIP, & a dialin modem.
At my end I am considering a terminal server which supports PPP or SLIP, such as
an Annex Three.

Is PC Pine up to the task? Would you put your governing council types onto
it? What about with dialin PPP/SLIP? Any pitfalls to such a setup?

Anyone running Novell's WFD TCP/IP and Annex boxes?

If this is the scenario we go, I would have less than 3 man days to make it
happen ... is this do-able in little time?

Thanks,

Alex Nishri
Supervisor of Network Services
University of Toronto Computing & Communications
email: [email protected]
phone: 416-978-7109
fax: 416-978-7159

From [email protected] Wed Aug 4 08:58:59 1993
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Date: Wed, 04 Aug 93 11:44:32 EDT
From: Jim Ennis <[email protected]>
Organization: University of Central Florida - Computer Services
Subject: overwrite mode in Pico
To: Pine Info List <[email protected]>
Status: O
X-Status:

I don't know if this is the right list or not, but here goes. Does Pico
have an overwrite mode so that you can write over text and not insert
characters onto a line? We have users filling out a form in Pine for
forwarding to an id for processing, we would like to have the people
be able to type in the fields directly and not have the text shifting
across the screen as they add characters.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Ennis - Systems Programmer | UCF Postmaster
University of Central Florida | [email protected]
PO BOX 162500 | (407) 823-2713
Orlando, FL 32816-2500 | "The Future begins Tomorrow."

From [email protected] Wed Aug 4 09:28:22 1993
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Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1993 09:17:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Jason R. Thorpe" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine w PPP/SLIP, Annex servers, and modems?
To: Alex Nishri <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Wed, 4 Aug 1993, Alex Nishri wrote:

> I am considering setting up PC Pine for a group of very important people at this
> University, who alas, do not have any network connection yet. I'm thinking of
> running PC Pine with Novell's WFD TCP/IP, either PPP or SLIP, & a dialin modem.
> At my end I am considering a terminal server which supports PPP or SLIP, such as
> an Annex Three.
>
> Is PC Pine up to the task? Would you put your governing council types onto
> it? What about with dialin PPP/SLIP? Any pitfalls to such a setup?

This is the same setup we are running here (more or less)...Our Annex server
runs the Xylogics Annex Command Interpreter and has PPP/SLIP support. We
would be VERY intersted as to whether or not people dialing in and telling
their workstations to talk SLIP could process their mail via IMAP from
their PC...

Later...

/*****************************************************************************
Jason R. Thorpe - OSU Computer Science Support Staff
Bellnet: (503) 623-8514 Internet: [email protected]
*****************************************************************************/

From [email protected] Wed Aug 4 09:35:10 1993
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Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1993 09:27:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: overwrite mode in Pico
To: Jim Ennis <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Info List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Status: O
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No, PICO does not have an overwrite mode, sorry.

--
|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Wed, 4 Aug 1993, Jim Ennis wrote:

> I don't know if this is the right list or not, but here goes. Does Pico
> have an overwrite mode so that you can write over text and not insert
> characters onto a line? We have users filling out a form in Pine for
> forwarding to an id for processing, we would like to have the people
> be able to type in the fields directly and not have the text shifting
> across the screen as they add characters.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Jim Ennis - Systems Programmer | UCF Postmaster
> University of Central Florida | [email protected]
> PO BOX 162500 | (407) 823-2713
> Orlando, FL 32816-2500 | "The Future begins Tomorrow."
>

From [email protected] Wed Aug 4 09:58:28 1993
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Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1993 09:43:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine w PPP/SLIP, Annex servers, and modems?
To: Alex Nishri <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

No problem, as long as you have a fast modem (we use 14.4kbps). We have
users here using a very similar configuration. I would set up a trial for
yourself for a few days just to get comfortable with it before trashing
the council's PCs though ;^)

--
|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Wed, 4 Aug 1993, Alex Nishri wrote:

> I am considering setting up PC Pine for a group of very important people at this
> University, who alas, do not have any network connection yet. I'm thinking of
> running PC Pine with Novell's WFD TCP/IP, either PPP or SLIP, & a dialin modem.
> At my end I am considering a terminal server which supports PPP or SLIP, such as
> an Annex Three.
>
> Is PC Pine up to the task? Would you put your governing council types onto
> it? What about with dialin PPP/SLIP? Any pitfalls to such a setup?
>
> Anyone running Novell's WFD TCP/IP and Annex boxes?
>
> If this is the scenario we go, I would have less than 3 man days to make it
> happen ... is this do-able in little time?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Alex Nishri
> Supervisor of Network Services
> University of Toronto Computing & Communications
> email: [email protected]
> phone: 416-978-7109
> fax: 416-978-7159
>

From [email protected] Wed Aug 4 12:25:16 1993
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Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1993 13:28:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tom Adams <[email protected]>
Subject: Preventing Forging of Mail Addresses
To: Pine Distribution List <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.02.9308041311.A9168-b100000@sol>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

Within minutes of installing our first copy of PC Pine on a public PC, a
user asked to try it out. Sending a short test message to himself, we
noticed that my mail address and personal name were used on the From line
despite the fact the user entered his own name and password to the IMAP
server. He commented on the need for this ``feature'' and happy walked
away with a copy of the software. That got me worrying about deliberate,
as well as unintentional, forging of electronic mail addresses.

The reason for my mail address and personal name being used was because
that's what appeared in the C:\pine\pinerc file of the publicly accessible
machine. The password verification of user identity by IMAP is only for
reading mail on the remote server and is totally independent of SMTP
which sends the mail from the PC.

While the -p option does allow different users to use a different pinerc
file, how do you insure the correct user mail address appears on mail sent?
The Receive by: line naming the sending PC address is not enough.

Short of forcing PC users to Telnet to the Suns for mail (eliminating PC
Pine totally), what can I do??

Otherwise, how can I block SMTP connections from PCs on my Suns?

_______________________________________________________________
Tom Adams Telephone: 516-435-6083
Standard Microsystems Corporation
35 Marcus Boulevard
Hauppauge, NY 11788 Internet: [email protected]

From [email protected] Wed Aug 4 13:22:30 1993
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Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1993 08:00:30 +1200 (NZST)
From: Jason Haar <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Preventing Forging of Mail Addresses
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.02.9308041311.A9168-b100000@sol>
To: Pine Distribution List <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
X-Envelope-To: [email protected]
Mime-Version: 1.0
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X-Contact: phone: +64 3 364-2336, fax: +64 3 364-2332
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References: <Pine.3.02.9308041311.A9168-b100000@sol>
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Excerpts from Mailing-Lists.Info-Pine: 4-Aug-93 Preventing Forging of
> Mail .. Tom [email protected] (1459*)

> Short of forcing PC users to Telnet to the Suns for mail (eliminating PC
> Pine totally), what can I do??

I agree that some POP/IMAP mailers do have this problem. I think the
answer is to force the mailer to always use the usercode the person
logged in as in the From line - but to supply a Reply-To header so the
user can do some rewriting if they need to.

As far as security goes - this really doesn't add much, if an IMAP/SMTP
client does the right thing, there's still nothing to stop the user from
directly sending "forged" mail via other means - except ignorance (which
does work for 99% of them ;-).

> Otherwise, how can I block SMTP connections from PCs on my Suns?

Get log_tcp wrapper (use archie) - it allows you to control what nodes
can connect to your SMTP servers. I use it extensively here - but you
really need a firewall as well to tighten things up...

Cheers

Jason Haar

From [email protected] Wed Aug 4 13:36:10 1993
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Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1993 13:23:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine w PPP/SLIP, Annex servers, and modems?
To: "Jason R. Thorpe" <[email protected]>
Cc: Alex Nishri <[email protected]>, [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

I have personally used PC Pine via SLIP on a variety of platforms, even a XT
laptop clone and a Macintosh running SoftPC.

It works.

However, I'm not sure that I would recommend my particular setup to VIPs.
This doesn't have anything to do with Pine, but rather on how clunky it is to
set up SLIP on a PC. If someone knows of a non-rocket science means to set up
a SLIP link on the PC for packet-driver applications, I'd like to hear of it!

From [email protected] Thu Aug 5 01:11:52 1993
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Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1993 08:55:57 +0100 (BST)
From: Mike Roch <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Preventing Forging of Mail Addresses
To: Tom Adams <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Distribution List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.02.9308041311.A9168-b100000@sol>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.07.9308050844.B14034-a100000@suma1>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Status: O
X-Status:

Sorry to plug a competitor, but Eudora has faced this problem for some
time. Outgoing mail's from field has the word (uncomfirmed) or (confirmed)
appended according to whether the program has done a POP login
successfully since the last change of the user details.

Mike

==============================================================================
Mike Roch, Computer Services Centre, Tel: 0734 318430
The University, Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AH. Fax: 0734 753094

From [email protected] Thu Aug 5 02:07:00 1993
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Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1993 01:54:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Preventing Forging of Mail Addresses
To: Mike Roch <[email protected]>
Cc: Tom Adams <[email protected]>,
Pine Distribution List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.07.9308050844.B14034-a100000@suma1>
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On Thu, 5 Aug 1993 08:55:57 +0100 (BST), Mike Roch wrote:
> Sorry to plug a competitor, but Eudora has faced this problem for some
> time. Outgoing mail's from field has the word (uncomfirmed) or (confirmed)
> appended according to whether the program has done a POP login
> successfully since the last change of the user details.

Uh, one small problem with this.

Presumably, the ``confirmed data'' is the POP login id and the POP service
host. That information may be sensitive, and certainly should not be
disclosed unless the program is configured to do so.

Also, if I were a bad guy there is nothing that keeps me from putting the
string ``(confirmed)'' after the address in a bogus From that I generate.

This isn't to say that Pine's present behavior, which practically encourages
the wrong thing to be sent, is right.

From [email protected] Thu Aug 5 08:16:56 1993
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Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1993 08:02:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Preventing Forging of Mail Addresses
To: Mike Roch <[email protected]>
Cc: Tom Adams <[email protected]>,
Pine Distribution List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.07.9308050844.B14034-a100000@suma1>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Once someone knows how to forge SMTP mail, that additional field makes
very little difference. It is true that it is slightly easier to forge
email on PC-pine, but I feel that something like putting "(confirmed)" on
a header will lead to more of a false sense of security than actual security.

We will be working on changes to make it less likely to inadvertantly
send email with the wrong return address from "multi-user" PCs.

--
|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Thu, 5 Aug 1993, Mike Roch wrote:

> Sorry to plug a competitor, but Eudora has faced this problem for some
> time. Outgoing mail's from field has the word (uncomfirmed) or (confirmed)
> appended according to whether the program has done a POP login
> successfully since the last change of the user details.
>
> Mike
>
> ==============================================================================
> Mike Roch, Computer Services Centre, Tel: 0734 318430
> The University, Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AH. Fax: 0734 753094
>
>
>

From [email protected] Thu Aug 5 08:27:23 1993
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Thu, 5 Aug 93 08:12:09 -0700 for [email protected]
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1993 08:05:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jason Hough <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Preventing Forging of Mail Addresses
To: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Cc: Mike Roch <[email protected]>, Tom Adams <[email protected]>,
Pine Distribution List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
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On Thu, 5 Aug 1993, Mark Crispin wrote:

> On Thu, 5 Aug 1993 08:55:57 +0100 (BST), Mike Roch wrote:
> > Sorry to plug a competitor, but Eudora has faced this problem for some
> > time. Outgoing mail's from field has the word (uncomfirmed) or (confirmed)
> > appended according to whether the program has done a POP login
> > successfully since the last change of the user details.
>
> Uh, one small problem with this.
>
> Presumably, the ``confirmed data'' is the POP login id and the POP service
> host. That information may be sensitive, and certainly should not be
> disclosed unless the program is configured to do so.
>
> Also, if I were a bad guy there is nothing that keeps me from putting the
> string ``(confirmed)'' after the address in a bogus From that I generate.
>
> This isn't to say that Pine's present behavior, which practically encourages
> the wrong thing to be sent, is right.

Some of you may know that Qualcomm has taken over development of Eudora and we
will actually be marketing it soon. I use Pine and Eudora both. Anyway, Eudora's
situation is similar to PC Pine's in that someone could walk up to my machine,
load up either program, and send mail all they want under my name. Eudora
however sees that my Unix password was never entered and automatically puts the
(uncomfirmed) addition in the header. You cannot fake this by typing (confirmed)
in, because Eudora will still but the uncomfirmed section in after it. It's not
something you can delete from the header, since Eudora never shows that part to
the sender.

At any rate, we have about 700 people here using Eudora and have had ALMOST NO
problems with this at all, so I dont think it's a huge issue. The unconfirmed
addtition is a nice security option though.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason Hough / [email protected] / CS Hotline / Ext. 5707 / Page:621-8657
"This world sharpens teeth - eat your words..."
- Marillion, _Standing in the Swing_
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

From [email protected] Thu Aug 5 10:16:25 1993
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Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1993 09:51:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Seibel <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Michael Seibel <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Preventing Forging of Mail Addresses
To: Jason Hough <[email protected]>
Cc: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>, Mike Roch <[email protected]>,
Tom Adams <[email protected]>,
Pine Distribution List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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X-Status:

On Thu, 5 Aug 1993, Jason Hough wrote:

> At any rate, we have about 700 people here using Eudora and have had ALMOST NO
> problems with this at all, so I dont think it's a huge issue. The unconfirmed
> addtition is a nice security option though.

We've been trying to decide exactly what path to take with PC-Pine, and
this is very helpful input! It's not an easy problem to solve.

To make sure I understand, does Eudora require the mailbox in the From
address to match the login's userid before "(confirmed)" is inserted? A
couple of valid situations where they reasonably wouldn't come to mind.
In the particular case of a system administrator, list maintainer or
help-desk consultant, an "(unconfirmed)" label might be less than ideal.
If the match isn't required, well...

At one point we considered putting the login userid/server pair into an
"X-Sender" header line. It might have helped to trace bogus mail back to
an account, but the downside is advertising the imap account with every
sent message. This didn't seem ideal either.

As it stands now, PC-Pine generates message ID's with the PC's name or IP
address. Along with Received entries this is helpful, but of course in a
lab environment is of questionable value. Whatever the solution, we'd
like to keep it innocuous enough so the motivation for snipping it out
after the source release is low.

Further, to diminish the likelihood of accidental forging, the upcoming
release will quite likely have the auto-save of requisite user data
disabled.

-mikes

From [email protected] Thu Aug 5 10:27:07 1993
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Thu, 5 Aug 93 10:17:51 -0700 for [email protected]
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1993 10:11:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jason Hough <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Preventing Forging of Mail Addresses
To: Michael Seibel <[email protected]>
Cc: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>, Mike Roch <[email protected]>,
Tom Adams <[email protected]>,
Pine Distribution List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

On Thu, 5 Aug 1993, Michael Seibel wrote:

> On Thu, 5 Aug 1993, Jason Hough wrote:
>
> > At any rate, we have about 700 people here using Eudora and have had ALMOST NO
> > problems with this at all, so I dont think it's a huge issue. The unconfirmed
> > addtition is a nice security option though.
>
> We've been trying to decide exactly what path to take with PC-Pine, and
> this is very helpful input! It's not an easy problem to solve.
>
> To make sure I understand, does Eudora require the mailbox in the From
> address to match the login's userid before "(confirmed)" is inserted? A
> couple of valid situations where they reasonably wouldn't come to mind.
> In the particular case of a system administrator, list maintainer or
> help-desk consultant, an "(unconfirmed)" label might be less than ideal.
> If the match isn't required, well...
>
Basically, when you first enter Eudora it asks for the password of the username
listed in Eudora's configuration file (eudorarc if you will). If you choose to
cancel when the password window appears, any messages sent will have the
"unconfirmed" text in the header. If the password is entered, this goes away.
Eudora also has the option, and I think this is what I'd like to see in PC Pine,
it has the option to "forget password". So if you're sending mail and need to
leave for lunch or whatever, you can select forget password and the unconfirmed
message comes back. Eudora will also not recieve any mail unless the password is entered.

Hope this helps!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason Hough / [email protected] / CS Hotline / Ext. 5707 / Page:621-8657
"This world sharpens teeth..."
- Marillion, _Standing in the Swing_
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

From [email protected] Fri Aug 6 01:16:11 1993
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Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1993 08:53:04 +0100 (BST)
From: Mike Roch <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Preventing Forging of Mail Addresses
To: Michael Seibel <[email protected]>
Cc: Jason Hough <[email protected]>, Mark Crispin <[email protected]>,
Pine Distribution List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.07.9308060802.B8852-a100000@suma1>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

On checking Eudora (Mac) I see that my assertion that "either (confirmed)
or (unconfirmed) are appended to the From: field" was wrong; the only
comment that appears is (unconfirmed) when a POP login has not taken place
with the userid being used in that From: field.

Mike

==============================================================================
Mike Roch, Computer Services Centre, Tel: 0734 318430
The University, Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AH. Fax: 0734 753094

From [email protected] Sat Aug 7 13:17:03 1993
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Date: Sat, 7 Aug 1993 14:07:53 -0600
From: [email protected] (Witold Owoc)
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: one more filter please
Status: O
X-Status:

With current discussions on [email protected] and
soc.culture.polish it is evident that after more than 3 years
of being connected to the world community Polish e-mail readers
feel the need to use an 8-bit e-mail.
Pine suits our needs :-)
To remain compatible we would need a filter implemented in pine
which translates ISO 8859-2 into ASCII.

I am aware that version 3.85 is imminent. Whom should I contact ?
I am willing to work on this filter (set up appropriate tables,
or whatever is necessary :-).

Witold Owoc <[email protected]> <- Poland-L co-owner

#disclaimer "my.private.views"

From [email protected] Sun Aug 8 23:53:57 1993
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Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1993 16:39:02 +1000 (EST)
From: Andy Linton <[email protected]>
Subject: Problem with folders in pine (fwd)
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="1461841693-1277808196-744864532:#6123"
Status: O
X-Status:

--1461841693-1277808196-744864532:#6123
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Hi,

I've just started using Pine and I've got a problem when sorting mail into
folders.

I'm connecting using the imapd and I'm running 3.07 on an Sun running
SunOS 4.1.3.

Here's the problem:

I'm reading mail in my inbox and I decide to save a message in a separate
folder. I hit the 's' key and I get prompted for a folder name. I've got
the 'elm-style-save' option on so I see a suggested name in []. I decide I
want to put the mail in a different folder so I hit ^T to see the folder
names and I select one. I'd expect to see the message refiled there but it
ends up in a folder of the same name in my home directory. If I supply the
folder name manually, I get the same behaviour.

Changing to a different folder either by using ^T and selecting a folder
or typing in the name works fine.

I've included my .pinerc file and /usr/local/lib/pine.conf. Is this a
known problem? Am I just doing something stupid? It would appear that a
'change directory to the Mail folder' is missing somewhere.

I've just switched from a long commitment to mh and xmh and I like what I
see with pine.

Thanks for your help,
andy

--
Andy Linton, e-mail: [email protected]
Network Engineer, phone: +61 6 249 2874
Australian Academic Research Network fax: +61 6 249 1369

--1461841693-1277808196-744864532:#6123
Content-Type: APPLICATION/OCTET-STREAM; NAME="pine.conf"
Content-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Description: System pine.conf

# /usr/local/lib/pine.conf -- system wide pine configuration
#
# Values here affect all pine users unless they've overidden the values
# in their .pinerc files. A blank copy of this file may be obtained
# by running "pine -conf". It will be printed on the standard output.
#
# For a variable to be unset it's value must be blank.
# To set a varible to the empty string it's value should be "".
# Switch variables are either set to "yes" or "no".
#
# (These comments are automatically inserted.)

# Your printer selection
printer=lpr -Paarnlw

# The system wide standard printer
standard-printer=lpr -Paarnlw

# Domain name you are in e.g. nwnet.net, cac.washington.edu, bwc.org
user-domain=aarnet.edu.au

# Eliminate host part from hostname, using only domain part for domain name
use-only-domain-name=yes

# Name/path of inbox. (Folder path name or "{host}inbox" for remote IMAP inbox)
inbox-path={nico.aarnet.edu.au}inbox

# If "yes" default folder name to sender when saving mail
elm-style-save=yes

# Include message header in inclusion of original mail when replying
header-in-reply=no

# The default folder where a copy of outgoing mail is saved
default-fcc=

# Nickname of bugs entry to be automatically placed in all address books
bugs-nickname=bugs

# Full name of bugs entry to be automatically placed in all address books
bugs-fullname=Pine Bug Report

# Address of bugs entry to be automatically placed in all address books
[email protected]

# Name of SMTP server for sending mail. If blank, sendmail will be used
smtp-server=

# Editor to use in place of Pine's internal composer, Pico
editor=

# Program to view images if format such as GIF and TIFF
image-viewer=/usr/bin/X11/xv

# "seedling", "sapling" or "old-growth" for novice, intermediate and advanced
feature-level=

# Use old style forward/reply with new text and signature below included text
old-style-reply=yes

# Name of file to read signature out of for inclusion in outgoing mail
signature-file=.signature

# Sub directory in users home directory where mail folders/files are kept
mail-directory=Mail

# Allow composition of MIME message (attachments) when this is set to "yes"
compose-mime=yes

# Character set used by your terminal e.g. US-ASCII, ISO-8859-1, ISO-8859-4
character-set=

# Will display all text without checking whether or not it is displayable
show-all-characters=

# If set to "no" messages about new versions of Pine will be supressed
new-version=no

--1461841693-1277808196-744864532:#6123
Content-Type: APPLICATION/OCTET-STREAM; NAME=".pinerc"
Content-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Description: My .pinerc

# Your full name
personal-name=Andy Linton

# Your printer selection
printer=lpr -Paarnlw

# Special print command if it isn't one of the standard printers
personal-print-command=lpr -Paarnlw

# Date last time you were asked about deleting old sent-mail
last-time-prune-questioned=93.8

# Domain name you are in e.g. nwnet.net, cac.washington.edu, bwc.org
user-domain=aarnet.edu.au

# Eliminate host part from hostname, using only domain part for domain name
use-only-domain-name=yes

# Name/path of inbox. (Folder path name or "{host}inbox" for remote IMAP inbox)
inbox-path={nico.aarnet.edu.au}inbox

# If "yes" default folder name to sender when saving mail
elm-style-save=yes

# Include message header in inclusion of original mail when replying
header-in-reply=no

# The default folder where a copy of outgoing mail is saved
default-fcc=ThisMonth

# Name of SMTP server for sending mail. If blank, sendmail will be used
smtp-server=

# Editor to use in place of Pine's internal composer, Pico
editor=emacs

# Program to view images if format such as GIF and TIFF
image-viewer=/usr/bin/X11/xv

# "seedling", "sapling" or "old-growth" for novice, intermediate and advanced
feature-level=old-growth

# Use old style forward/reply with new text and signature below included text
old-style-reply=yes

# Name of file to read signature out of for inclusion in outgoing mail
signature-file=.signature

# Sub directory in users home directory where mail folders/files are kept
mail-directory=Mail

# Character set used by your terminal e.g. US-ASCII, ISO-8859-1, ISO-8859-4
character-set=

# Will display all text without checking whether or not it is displayable
show-all-characters=

# Name/path of inbox. (Folder path name or "{host}inbox" for remote IMAP inbox)
inbox-path=

--1461841693-1277808196-744864532:#6123--

From [email protected] Mon Aug 9 08:42:30 1993
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Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1993 10:30:10 -0500
From: Billy Barron <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Problem with folders in pine
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="1461841693-1277808196-744864532:#6123"
Status: O
X-Status:

--1461841693-1277808196-744864532:#6123
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

>I'm connecting using the imapd and I'm running 3.07 on an Sun running
>SunOS 4.1.3.
>
I'm not using imapd, but otherwise the same configuration.

>Here's the problem:
>
>I'm reading mail in my inbox and I decide to save a message in a separate
>folder. I hit the 's' key and I get prompted for a folder name. I've got
>the 'elm-style-save' option on so I see a suggested name in []. I decide I
>want to put the mail in a different folder so I hit ^T to see the folder
>names and I select one. I'd expect to see the message refiled there but it
>ends up in a folder of the same name in my home directory. If I supply the
>folder name manually, I get the same behaviour.
>
>Changing to a different folder either by using ^T and selecting a folder
>or typing in the name works fine.
>
I'm seeing the exact same problem. Hadn't reported yet because I hadn't
checked it out in detail yet.

Billy Barron
[email protected]

--1461841693-1277808196-744864532:#6123--

From [email protected] Mon Aug 9 09:36:27 1993
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Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1993 09:27:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Problem with folders in pine (fwd)
To: Andy Linton <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Status: O
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Andy and Billy,
Part of the problem is that Elm's behavior is somewhat surprising in that
if you override the default (and don't put in an "=" token) it saves to
the home (actually, the current) directory. Pine emulates this, when
"elm-style-save" is enabled, although doesn't support the "=" shorthand.

The anomoly about selecting a name from the folder menu and having that
end up in the home directory sounds like a true bug...

However, both these problems go away in version 3.85, due later this month,
with the introduction of the concept of "folder collections." (PC-Pine 3.84
users have this facility now.)

-teg

On Mon, 9 Aug 1993, Andy Linton wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I've just started using Pine and I've got a problem when sorting mail into
> folders.
>
> I'm connecting using the imapd and I'm running 3.07 on an Sun running
> SunOS 4.1.3.
>
> Here's the problem:
>
> I'm reading mail in my inbox and I decide to save a message in a separate
> folder. I hit the 's' key and I get prompted for a folder name. I've got
> the 'elm-style-save' option on so I see a suggested name in []. I decide I
> want to put the mail in a different folder so I hit ^T to see the folder
> names and I select one. I'd expect to see the message refiled there but it
> ends up in a folder of the same name in my home directory. If I supply the
> folder name manually, I get the same behaviour.
>
> Changing to a different folder either by using ^T and selecting a folder
> or typing in the name works fine.
>
> I've included my .pinerc file and /usr/local/lib/pine.conf. Is this a
> known problem? Am I just doing something stupid? It would appear that a
> 'change directory to the Mail folder' is missing somewhere.
>
> I've just switched from a long commitment to mh and xmh and I like what I
> see with pine.
>
> Thanks for your help,
> andy
>
> --
> Andy Linton, e-mail: [email protected]
> Network Engineer, phone: +61 6 249 2874
> Australian Academic Research Network fax: +61 6 249 1369
>
>
>

From [email protected] Mon Aug 9 10:01:01 1993
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Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1993 17:44:54 +0100 (BST)
From: Ian Dunkin <[email protected]>
Subject: Export
To: [email protected]
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No doubt it's staring me in the screen, but I can't _see_ any way with
the Export command to overwrite an existing file rather than
appending to it. Which I quite often would like to do.

IS there a way??

I.

From [email protected] Mon Aug 9 12:18:08 1993
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help

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Status: O
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From [email protected] Mon Aug 9 14:27:59 1993
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Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1993 16:53:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael F. Santangelo" <[email protected]>
Subject: PCPINE 3.84a [remote] Folder Collections: Does it work?!?
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

Is this supposed to work? I've tried every syntax I can come up with and
searched through all the documentation I can find, but the most I can do
(aside from access my inbox) is access a single folder at a time with
"incoming-folders=" option in PINERC. What I need to do is use the folder
collections ability but everytime I try to click on it within pine all I
ever get is:

[ *** Empty List *** Select Here to Try Re-Expanding ]

The syntax I understand to use (from the docs) in PINERC is:

remote-folders {remote-node-name}Mail[]

where "Mail" is the subdirectory in my account where the normal UNIX
pine folders exist. I've tried {rnn}/users/mike/Mail[], {rnn}Mail/[*],
{rnn}Mail[*], etc etc.

How do I get a list of remote folders???

I can't seam to read news at all either despite many attempts. Same
message as above.
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Mike F. Santangelo + Internet: [email protected] [work]
Dept. Head-Computer & Network Systems + [email protected] [home]
UMCEES / CBL (Solomons Island) + BITNET: MIKE@UMUC [fwd to mike@cbl]

From [email protected] Mon Aug 9 14:42:13 1993
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Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1993 14:30:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Subject: re: PCPINE 3.84a [remote] Folder Collections: Does it work?!?
To: "Michael F. Santangelo" <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

What version of the IMAP server are you running?

PC Pine requires the latest version. Earlier versions may not work properly.

What syntax are you trying to use to access news? Are you trying to access
news via NNTP or IMAP?

From [email protected] Mon Aug 9 14:46:21 1993
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Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1993 17:30:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael F. Santangelo" <[email protected]>
Subject: *** To Mark Crispin *** (was: re: PCPINE 3.84a [remote] folder...)
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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X-Status:

Mark -- your return-path address is not accessable!

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1993 17:27:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael F. Santangelo" <[email protected]>
To: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Subject: re: PCPINE 3.84a [remote] Folder Collections: Does it work?!?

On Mon, 9 Aug 1993, Mark Crispin wrote:

> What version of the IMAP server are you running?
>
> PC Pine requires the latest version. Earlier versions may not work properly.

I am using whatever version was in the PINE v3.07 distribution for UNIX.

>
> What syntax are you trying to use to access news? Are you trying to access
> news via NNTP or IMAP?

both

>

HELP HELP HELP. Any ideas?

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Mike F. Santangelo + Internet: [email protected] [work]
Dept. Head-Computer & Network Systems + [email protected] [home]
UMCEES / CBL (Solomons Island) + BITNET: MIKE@UMUC [fwd to mike@cbl]

From [email protected] Mon Aug 9 14:48:46 1993
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Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1993 14:33:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: PCPINE 3.84a [remote] Folder Collections: Does it work?!?
To: "Michael F. Santangelo" <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

Mike,
The incoming-folders variable is a list of *individual* folder names,
in contrast to the folder-collections and news-collections variables
which take a list of *collections*. The idea is that all of the
incoming folders together (plus INBOX) constitute a single collection.

So you can have
incoming-folders= {host}Mail/foo, {host}Mail/bar
or
folder-collections= {host}Mail/[*]

Send us the relevant .pinerc entry for news-collections and we'll try to
help on the news problem.

-teg

On Mon, 9 Aug 1993, Michael F. Santangelo wrote:

> Is this supposed to work? I've tried every syntax I can come up with and
> searched through all the documentation I can find, but the most I can do
> (aside from access my inbox) is access a single folder at a time with
> "incoming-folders=" option in PINERC. What I need to do is use the folder
> collections ability but everytime I try to click on it within pine all I
> ever get is:
>
> [ *** Empty List *** Select Here to Try Re-Expanding ]
>
> The syntax I understand to use (from the docs) in PINERC is:
>
> remote-folders {remote-node-name}Mail[]
>
> where "Mail" is the subdirectory in my account where the normal UNIX
> pine folders exist. I've tried {rnn}/users/mike/Mail[], {rnn}Mail/[*],
> {rnn}Mail[*], etc etc.
>
> How do I get a list of remote folders???
>
> I can't seam to read news at all either despite many attempts. Same
> message as above.
> -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> Mike F. Santangelo + Internet: [email protected] [work]
> Dept. Head-Computer & Network Systems + [email protected] [home]
> UMCEES / CBL (Solomons Island) + BITNET: MIKE@UMUC [fwd to mike@cbl]
>
>
>

From [email protected] Mon Aug 9 14:53:10 1993
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Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1993 14:44:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: PCPINE 3.84a [remote] Folder Collections: Does it work?!?
To: "Michael F. Santangelo" <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

Mike,
I mis-read your msg about problems with folder collections; please
disregard my reply.

-teg

From [email protected] Mon Aug 9 17:44:56 1993
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Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1993 20:18:52 PDT
From: Ken Weaverling <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: PCPINE 3.84a [remote] Folder Collections: Does it work?!?
To: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <PCPine.3.84.9308092051.B1-0100000@[138.123.84.248]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

> Send us the relevant .pinerc entry for news-collections and we'll try to
> help on the news problem.

I got the remote folder collection working, but news will not work... I
get the same message

> [ *** Empty List *** Select Here to Try Re-Expanding ]

I am the news admin, so I tweaked with permissions to read-only (no
posting) and posting allowed, same thing (though with the former, I did
see the 201 message from NNTP in the stat line saying no posting).

My pinerc looks like...

# One or more collections where saved messages are stored.
#The first one is the default collection for saves. For example:
# folder-collections=PC-folders C:\MAIL\[],
# Carson-folders {carson.u.washington.edu}mail/[]
folder-collections={pima.dtcc.edu}Mail/[*]

# One or more collections of news folders (e.g. *{news.u.washington.edu/nntp}[])
news-collections=*{apache.dtcc.edu/nntp}[]

From [email protected] Mon Aug 9 18:43:14 1993
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Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1993 18:06:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Seibel <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Michael Seibel <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: PCPINE 3.84a [remote] Folder Collections: Does it work?!?
To: Ken Weaverling <[email protected]>
Cc: "Michael F. Santangelo" <[email protected]>,
[email protected]
In-Reply-To: <PCPine.3.84.9308092051.B1-0100000@[138.123.84.248]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

The collection definitions look fine from here. What's your NEWSRC look
like, and where's it located on the PC's disk?

Effectively, the folder for an NNTP-accessed collection is built from the
list of subscribed groups in the NEWSRC. Pine uses common "rn" notation,
so ftp'ing a .newsrc from a UNIX account to the root of pine's working
drive (or directory pointed to by the "HOME" environment variable) should
be enough.

For now, all subscription maintenance has to be done external to pine, but
an upcoming version (not the one scheduled for later this month, though)
will have this support fleshed out.

Alternatively, just opening a newsgroup for reading can be done by typing
a newsgroup name at the "goto" command prompt with the news collection
selected. It won't get the newsgroup into the NEWSRC, but it will tell us
if NNTP from the PC is working.

Hope this helps!

-mikes

On Mon, 9 Aug 1993, Ken Weaverling wrote:

> > Send us the relevant .pinerc entry for news-collections and we'll try to
> > help on the news problem.
>
> I got the remote folder collection working, but news will not work... I
> get the same message
>
> > [ *** Empty List *** Select Here to Try Re-Expanding ]
>
> I am the news admin, so I tweaked with permissions to read-only (no
> posting) and posting allowed, same thing (though with the former, I did
> see the 201 message from NNTP in the stat line saying no posting).
>
> My pinerc looks like...
>
> # One or more collections where saved messages are stored.
> #The first one is the default collection for saves. For example:
> # folder-collections=PC-folders C:\MAIL\[],
> # Carson-folders {carson.u.washington.edu}mail/[]
> folder-collections={pima.dtcc.edu}Mail/[*]
>
> # One or more collections of news folders (e.g. *{news.u.washington.edu/nntp}[])
> news-collections=*{apache.dtcc.edu/nntp}[]
>

From [email protected] Mon Aug 9 21:37:39 1993
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id AA15990; Tue, 10 Aug 93 00:22:49 EDT
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1993 23:54:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael F. Santangelo" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: PCPINE 3.84a [remote] Folder Collections: Does it work?!?
To: Michael Seibel <[email protected]>
Cc: Ken Weaverling <[email protected]>, [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

On Mon, 9 Aug 1993, Michael Seibel wrote:

> The collection definitions look fine from here. What's your NEWSRC look
> like, and where's it located on the PC's disk?

The problem here seemed to be that I was using an older version
of imapd, I just compiled the new one and willtest extensively at
work tomorrow (as the waterloo IP package you all used in PCPINE doesn't
like going through my home router based on PCROUTE!)

>
> Effectively, the folder for an NNTP-accessed collection is built from the
> list of subscribed groups in the NEWSRC. Pine uses common "rn" notation,
> so ftp'ing a .newsrc from a UNIX account to the root of pine's working
> drive (or directory pointed to by the "HOME" environment variable) should
> be enough.

So the IMAPD process won't read the .newsrc file in the home directory
of my UNIX acct remotely? I have to FTP a .newsrc file to the c:\PINE
directory on the PC? if so, what do I call it ("NEWSRC")?

With the new imapd, I'll try it tomorrow.

>
> For now, all subscription maintenance has to be done external to pine, but
> an upcoming version (not the one scheduled for later this month, though)
> will have this support fleshed out.
>
> Alternatively, just opening a newsgroup for reading can be done by typing
> a newsgroup name at the "goto" command prompt with the news collection
> selected. It won't get the newsgroup into the NEWSRC, but it will tell us
> if NNTP from the PC is working.

You know, we have never gotten PINE at our site to do news! We run
INN v1.2 on a DECstation with 'nn' and 'tin' news reader, with
several UNIX clients. Yet, when I try "g" and type for instance:
"/news/spool/comp/os/vms" (a valid newsgroup) I get "Unknown file format"
everytime. I have symbolic links for /usr/lib/news (for ACTIVEFILE
def in os_ult.h) and /usr/spool/news (for NEWSSPOOL def in os_ult.h).

..what am I doing wrong?

>
> Hope this helps!
>
> -mikes
>
>
> On Mon, 9 Aug 1993, Ken Weaverling wrote:
>
> > > Send us the relevant .pinerc entry for news-collections and we'll try to
> > > help on the news problem.
> >
> > I got the remote folder collection working, but news will not work... I
> > get the same message
> >
> > > [ *** Empty List *** Select Here to Try Re-Expanding ]
> >
> > I am the news admin, so I tweaked with permissions to read-only (no
> > posting) and posting allowed, same thing (though with the former, I did
> > see the 201 message from NNTP in the stat line saying no posting).
> >
> > My pinerc looks like...
> >
> > # One or more collections where saved messages are stored.
> > #The first one is the default collection for saves. For example:
> > # folder-collections=PC-folders C:\MAIL\[],
> > # Carson-folders {carson.u.washington.edu}mail/[]
> > folder-collections={pima.dtcc.edu}Mail/[*]
> >
> > # One or more collections of news folders (e.g. *{news.u.washington.edu/nntp}[])
> > news-collections=*{apache.dtcc.edu/nntp}[]
> >

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Mike F. Santangelo + Internet: [email protected] [work]
Dept. Head-Computer & Network Systems + [email protected] [home]
UMCEES / CBL (Solomons Island) + BITNET: MIKE@UMUC [fwd to mike@cbl]

From [email protected] Mon Aug 9 23:05:28 1993
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Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1993 22:55:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steve Hubert <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Steve Hubert <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: PCPINE 3.84a [remote] Folder Collections: Does it work?!?
To: "Michael F. Santangelo" <[email protected]>
Cc: Michael Seibel <[email protected]>,
Ken Weaverling <[email protected]>, [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

> You know, we have never gotten PINE at our site to do news! We run
> INN v1.2 on a DECstation with 'nn' and 'tin' news reader, with
> several UNIX clients. Yet, when I try "g" and type for instance:
> "/news/spool/comp/os/vms" (a valid newsgroup) I get "Unknown file format"
> everytime. I have symbolic links for /usr/lib/news (for ACTIVEFILE
> def in os_ult.h) and /usr/spool/news (for NEWSSPOOL def in os_ult.h).
>
> ...what am I doing wrong?

Select the news collection in the folder lister, type "g" and type a
newsgroup with the syntax "comp.os.vms". That should test the NNTP part
of it.

From [email protected] Tue Aug 10 00:50:10 1993
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Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1993 00:35:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: PCPINE 3.84a [remote] Folder Collections: Does it work?!?
To: "Michael F. Santangelo" <[email protected]>
Cc: Michael Seibel <[email protected]>,
Ken Weaverling <[email protected]>, [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

On Mon, 9 Aug 1993 23:54:06 -0400 (EDT), Michael F. Santangelo wrote:
> So the IMAPD process won't read the .newsrc file in the home directory
> of my UNIX acct remotely? I have to FTP a .newsrc file to the c:\PINE
> directory on the PC? if so, what do I call it ("NEWSRC")?

This is incorrect.

imapd *WILL* read the .newsrc file in the home directory of the UNIX account
remotely, if you open a news connection using IMAP.

However, if you open a news connection using NNTP, the newsrc data must reside
on the client (that is, on the PC if you are using PC Pine).

Note that there is a bug in the distributed version of PC Pine having to do
with getting a list of newsgroups in an IMAP-based news collection. This bug
has been fixed, but I don't think that version of PC Pine has been released
yet.

These features are not yet in the distributed version of UNIX Pine.

> when I try "g" and type for instance:
> "/news/spool/comp/os/vms" (a valid newsgroup) I get "Unknown file format"
> everytime.

Try G followed by *comp.os.vms

Also, you'll be pleased to know that the IMAP toolkit (mail/imap.tar.Z on
ftp.cac.washington.edu) now includes patch files and instructions for
installing shadow password capability for Ultrix and SUN-OS.

From [email protected] Tue Aug 10 01:56:56 1993
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Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1993 04:40:14 PDT
From: Ken Weaverling <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: PCPINE 3.84a [remote] Folder Collections: Does it work?!?
To: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <PCPine.3.84a.9308100413.A1-0100000@[138.123.84.248]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

>
> imapd *WILL* read the .newsrc file in the home directory of the UNIX account
> remotely, if you open a news connection using IMAP.

Got this to work, almost...

Just tried following first...

# One or more collections of news folders (e.g. *{news.u.washington.edu/nntp}[])
news-collections=*{apache.dtcc.edu/imap}[]

It sat for a while, then bombed with a "Bug detected in Pine, can't resize
memory" or similar error (I have a very large Unix .newsrc file, but it
is still ungraceful!)

I then altered it to

news-collections=*{apache.dtcc.edu/imap}[dtcc*]

.. to pick up our local newsgroups (around 7). It then came back with a
list of groups which were correct, but when I tried to select one, it said...

no such bboard: {apache.dtcc.edu/imap}dtcc.weather

From [email protected] Tue Aug 10 09:16:30 1993
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id AA00484; Tue, 10 Aug 93 12:00:41 EDT
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1993 11:58:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael F. Santangelo" <[email protected]>
Subject: ?Header problem
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

Any mail sent from PCPINE 3.84a arrives with a header than UNIX PINE (3.07)
seems a little confused by. The from-field in the list of messages
says "To: " and the address the mail message was sent to rather than
the PC's nodename or at least the Personal Name. If I go into ugly old
UNIX 'mail' and do an 'h' the from field is more or less what it should
be in the list (says username@<pinedomain name> which I have set to
"[email protected]" our email server).

Any ideas?

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Mike F. Santangelo + Internet: [email protected] [work]
Dept. Head-Computer & Network Systems + [email protected] [home]
UMCEES / CBL (Solomons Island) + BITNET: MIKE@UMUC [fwd to mike@cbl]

From [email protected] Tue Aug 10 09:55:34 1993
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id AA00851; Tue, 10 Aug 93 12:39:58 EDT
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1993 12:39:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael F. Santangelo" <[email protected]>
Subject: ?Remote address books in PCPINE
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

Does PCPINE/IMAP 3 support accessing remote address books? Many of
our administrative users have set up address books on their UNIX PINE
accounts.

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Mike F. Santangelo + Internet: [email protected] [work]
Dept. Head-Computer & Network Systems + [email protected] [home]
UMCEES / CBL (Solomons Island) + BITNET: MIKE@UMUC [fwd to mike@cbl]

From [email protected] Tue Aug 10 11:52:46 1993
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Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1993 04:43:39 +1000
From: Andrew Herbert <[email protected]>
Subject: testing
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Status: O
X-Status:

From [email protected] Tue Aug 10 11:54:37 1993
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Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1993 04:47:01 +1000
From: Andrew Herbert <[email protected]>
Subject: oops!
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Status: O
X-Status:

People,

My apologies for the previous "test" mail from me - it's late and I mailed the
list rather than my local mail-news gateway.

Andrew

From [email protected] Tue Aug 10 14:00:16 1993
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Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1993 13:47:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: ?Remote address books in PCPINE
To: "Michael F. Santangelo" <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

No. The remote addressbook issue is something that is going to be
addressed in Pine 4.0, due out this fall, but it is not available yet.
There will certainly be support for IMSP addressbooks and quite possibly
for CCSO based addressbooks. The details of how to handle them have not
been worked out yet.

--
|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Tue, 10 Aug 1993, Michael F. Santangelo wrote:

> Does PCPINE/IMAP 3 support accessing remote address books? Many of
> our administrative users have set up address books on their UNIX PINE
> accounts.
>
> -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> Mike F. Santangelo + Internet: [email protected] [work]
> Dept. Head-Computer & Network Systems + [email protected] [home]
> UMCEES / CBL (Solomons Island) + BITNET: MIKE@UMUC [fwd to mike@cbl]
>
>
>

From [email protected] Tue Aug 10 14:05:50 1993
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id AA01303; Tue, 10 Aug 93 16:45:04 EDT
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1993 16:44:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael F. Santangelo" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: ?Remote address books in PCPINE
To: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

On Tue, 10 Aug 1993, David L Miller wrote:

>
> No. The remote addressbook issue is something that is going to be
> addressed in Pine 4.0, due out this fall, but it is not available yet.
> There will certainly be support for IMSP addressbooks and quite possibly
> for CCSO based addressbooks. The details of how to handle them have not
> been worked out yet.
>

Ack! More acronyms! Yea, haven't heard of IMSP/CCSO, these proposed
standards for handling such things?

Thanks for the reply.

>
> On Tue, 10 Aug 1993, Michael F. Santangelo wrote:
>
> > Does PCPINE/IMAP 3 support accessing remote address books? Many of
> > our administrative users have set up address books on their UNIX PINE
> > accounts.
> >
> > -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> > Mike F. Santangelo + Internet: [email protected] [work]
> > Dept. Head-Computer & Network Systems + [email protected] [home]
> > UMCEES / CBL (Solomons Island) + BITNET: MIKE@UMUC [fwd to mike@cbl]
> >
> >
> >
>

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Mike F. Santangelo + Internet: [email protected] [work]
Dept. Head-Computer & Network Systems + [email protected] [home]
UMCEES / CBL (Solomons Island) + BITNET: MIKE@UMUC [fwd to mike@cbl]

From [email protected] Tue Aug 10 14:47:49 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
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Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1993 14:35:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Reply-To: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: ?Remote address books in PCPINE
To: "Michael F. Santangelo" <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

Yup, more acronyms! ;^)

IMSP is the Interactive Mail Support Protocol and is being developed by
John G. Meyers at Carnegie Mellon University. It is indeed on the
standards track. There is currently an alpha-release of a server
available and the "standard" is still changing.

CCSO is a nameserver developed by the Computer and Communications
Services Office (hence the acronym) or the University of Illinois at
Urbana. It is in fairly wide use and can also be interfaced to mail
delivery agents for name resolution.

--
|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Tue, 10 Aug 1993, Michael F. Santangelo wrote:

> On Tue, 10 Aug 1993, David L Miller wrote:
>
> >
> > No. The remote addressbook issue is something that is going to be
> > addressed in Pine 4.0, due out this fall, but it is not available yet.
> > There will certainly be support for IMSP addressbooks and quite possibly
> > for CCSO based addressbooks. The details of how to handle them have not
> > been worked out yet.
> >
>
> Ack! More acronyms! Yea, haven't heard of IMSP/CCSO, these proposed
> standards for handling such things?
>
> Thanks for the reply.
>
> >
> > On Tue, 10 Aug 1993, Michael F. Santangelo wrote:
> >
> > > Does PCPINE/IMAP 3 support accessing remote address books? Many of
> > > our administrative users have set up address books on their UNIX PINE
> > > accounts.
> > >
> > > -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> > > Mike F. Santangelo + Internet: [email protected] [work]
> > > Dept. Head-Computer & Network Systems + [email protected] [home]
> > > UMCEES / CBL (Solomons Island) + BITNET: MIKE@UMUC [fwd to mike@cbl]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> Mike F. Santangelo + Internet: [email protected] [work]
> Dept. Head-Computer & Network Systems + [email protected] [home]
> UMCEES / CBL (Solomons Island) + BITNET: MIKE@UMUC [fwd to mike@cbl]
>
>
>

From [email protected] Tue Aug 10 15:08:22 1993
Received: by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
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Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from tsippi.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
(5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA12631; Tue, 10 Aug 93 15:08:19 -0700
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1993 14:56:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sheryl Erez <[email protected]>
Subject: re: ?Header problem
To: "Michael F. Santangelo" <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

This does not sound surprising. When you are in Pine (any Pine) and
looking at the index of messages in a folder, Pine will tell you who
the message is from.

However, if Pine detects that the message sender (From: line) is the
same person as the person currently running Pine, then Pine tells you
who the message is to, not from. This is helpful when looking at the
FOLDER INDEX of a sent-mail folder. It also helps point out messages
which you wrote.

It sounds like you have the user-id and domain set the same for both
Pine and PC-Pine, so they detect that messages sent from either plat-
form are really from you. To test the theory and verify that PC-Pine
messages are in fact OK, use PC-Pine to compose a message to somebody
other than yourself. Have that other person use UNIX Pine 3.07 to
view the message and see what comes up.

Sheryl Erez
[email protected]
UW Network Information Center

On Tue, 10 Aug 1993 11:58:29 -0400 (EDT), Michael F. Santangelo wrote:

> Subject: ?Header problem
> To: [email protected]
>
> Any mail sent from PCPINE 3.84a arrives with a header than UNIX PINE (3.07)
> seems a little confused by. The from-field in the list of messages
> says "To: " and the address the mail message was sent to rather than
> the PC's nodename or at least the Personal Name. If I go into ugly old
> UNIX 'mail' and do an 'h' the from field is more or less what it should
> be in the list (says username@<pinedomain name> which I have set to
> "[email protected]" our email server).
>
> Any ideas?
>
>

From [email protected] Tue Aug 10 18:29:34 1993
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Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1993 21:13:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael F. Santangelo" <[email protected]>
Subject: re: ?Header problem
To: Sheryl Erez <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

Thanks, I'll give it a try...

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Mike F. Santangelo + Internet: [email protected] [work]
Dept. Head-Computer & Network Systems + [email protected] [home]
UMCEES / CBL (Solomons Island) + BITNET: MIKE@UMUC [fwd to mike@cbl]

From [email protected] Tue Aug 10 23:34:05 1993
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Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1993 23:18:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: PCPINE 3.84a [remote] Folder Collections: Does it work?!?
To: Ken Weaverling <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <PCPine.3.84a.9308100413.A1-0100000@[138.123.84.248]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

On Tue, 10 Aug 1993 04:40:14 PDT, Ken Weaverling wrote:
> news-collections=*{apache.dtcc.edu/imap}[]
> It sat for a while, then bombed with a "Bug detected in Pine, can't resize
> memory" or similar error (I have a very large Unix .newsrc file, but it
> is still ungraceful!)

This is definitely a bug. I'll call it to my co-worker's attention.

> I then altered it to
> news-collections=*{apache.dtcc.edu/imap}[dtcc*]
> ... to pick up our local newsgroups (around 7). It then came back with a
> list of groups which were correct, but when I tried to select one, it
> said...
> no such bboard: {apache.dtcc.edu/imap}dtcc.weather

This is a known bug in the current distribution version of PC Pine. It is
fixed in the development sources, so it will be fixed when the source release
is made.

From [email protected] Wed Aug 11 13:44:22 1993
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Message-Id: <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
From: "Mark Thacker...CC1 LAN Manager" <[email protected]>
Organization: UNT Computing Center
Date: 11 Aug 1993 15:32:12 CST6CDT
Subject: Problems with Imap 3.0 under SunOS 4.1.3 (OS-MP 4.1b)?
Priority: normal
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail/Mac v2.02
Status: RO
X-Status:

I am trying to make the latest imapd.tar.Z from cac.washington.edu on a
Solbourne running OS-MP 4.1b (Sun OS 4.1.2 + some of 4.1.3). I have tried
both gcc and normal non-ANSI cc with the following results:

During the make, everything works fine until the following line. After
which, the whole make blows up:

cd ../c-client;make
cc -g -Dconst= -target sun4 -c mbox.c
"mbox.c", line 179: syntax error at or near type word "slock"
"mbox.c", line 184: syntax error at or near type word "slock"
"mbox.c", line 208: syntax error at or near type word "slock"
*** Error code 1
make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `mbox.o'

(none of the rest of the make works at all)

Anyone have any ideas? I thought that Imap 3.0 was supposed to make under
SunOS just fine? In fact, several people have told me that it does.

Thanks!

Mark

======================================================================
Mark Thacker Bitnet : MARK@UNTVAX
Campus Wide Information System Coordinator THENET : NTVAXA::MARK
Computing Center Internet : [email protected]
University of North Texas, Denton, Texas 76203 (817) 565-2568
======================================================================

From [email protected] Wed Aug 11 14:25:03 1993
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Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1993 13:49:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Subject: re: Problems with Imap 3.0 under SunOS 4.1.3 (OS-MP 4.1b)?
To: "Mark Thacker...CC1 LAN Manager" <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I did not have this problem on our SUN-OS 4.1.3 system.

My guess is that on your system the token ``slock'' is defined as something.
In mbox.c, it is a temporary character array.

My suggestion is to change all occurances of ``slock'' to some other word, and
see if that fixes the problem.

-- Mark --

From [email protected] Wed Aug 11 15:07:40 1993
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Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1993 07:56:46 +0100 (EDT)
From: Chris Kirkby <[email protected]>
Subject: Unsubscribe
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <Pine.3.07.9308120746.A16582-9100000@mirage>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Could you please unsubscribe me from this group
Thanks
Chris

---------------------------+---------------------------------------------
Chris Kirkby | Internet: [email protected]
Data General | ACSnet: [email protected]
407 Pacific Highway | CEO: [email protected]
Artarmon, Sydney, Australia | Phone: (61) 2 436-5600

From [email protected] Wed Aug 11 14:44:26 1993
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From: David Bradford <pail!cascorp!dbradfor>
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1993 10:57:15 -0700 (PDT)
Reply-To: "David L. Bradford" <cascorp!dbradfor>
Subject: enhancement requests
To: PINE Info <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

I'm using pine 3.07. It'd be nice to be able to:

q quit from the folder screen
i index (on highlighted folder) from the folder screen
not have pine say [Unknown command: "f"] from folder screen (just
ignore the "f" there)
not have pine say [Unknown command: "m"] from the main menu
(again, ignore it)

Minor points, granted, but they would polish the operation of pine a bit.

- Dave

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
David Bradford CAD/CAM Tech Support "The world's leading __ |
Cascade Corporation, Portland, OR, USA producer of lift |__\_|
Telephone...............(503) 669 6285 truck attachments" @--@|__
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
UUCP: uunet!pail!cascorp!dbradfor Internet: [email protected]
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

From [email protected] Thu Aug 12 09:32:36 1993
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Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1993 09:16:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine on RISK 6000
To: Mahbuba Ferdousi <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected], [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Right now, it is looking like the end of of August.

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Thu, 12 Aug 1993, Mahbuba Ferdousi wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, 26 Jul 1993, David L Miller wrote:
>
> >
> > Pine 3.85 will be released in a couple weeks and will include a fully
> > functional port for the RS/6000.
> >
>
> Do you have any ideas when the above will be available especially for
> RS/6000?? We are very interested.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Mahbuba Ferdousi
> Consultant
> Academic Computing
> Emory University
>
>
>
>
>
>

From [email protected] Thu Aug 12 09:32:57 1993
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Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1993 12:04:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mahbuba Ferdousi <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine on RISK 6000
To: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected], [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 26 Jul 1993, David L Miller wrote:

>
> Pine 3.85 will be released in a couple weeks and will include a fully
> functional port for the RS/6000.
>

Do you have any ideas when the above will be available especially for
RS/6000?? We are very interested.

Thanks in advance,
Mahbuba Ferdousi
Consultant
Academic Computing
Emory University

From [email protected] Thu Aug 12 09:37:35 1993
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Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1993 09:27:41 -0700
From: J. Scott Williams <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: PC-Pine as DOS App. Within Windows?

Do readers of this list have wisdom to share about starting
PC-Pine 3.84 under MS-Windows as a DOS application and then running it
in the background such that email notification parts of PC-Pine work?

-jscott-
----------
|J. Scott Williams Ph: (206) 650-2868 FAX: (206) 650-6548 |
|Academic Tech. User Services Internet: [email protected] |
|Western Washington Univ. "Internet--Talking across the electronic|
|Bellingham, WA 98225-9094 back fence of the world."-JSW|

From [email protected] Thu Aug 12 10:44:19 1993
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Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1993 13:34:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Highway 'The Legend of Billie Jean' Man <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine on RISK 6000
To: Mahbuba Ferdousi <[email protected]>
Cc: David L Miller <[email protected]>, [email protected],
[email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Would love the information too... considering my job has a RS/6000
over here... :)

--------------------- [ National Service Fraternity ] ----------------------
UU UU MM MM DDDDDD [email protected] EEEEEEE MM MM
UU UU MMM MMM DD DD "the snuggly, cuddly care bear" EE MMM MMM
UU UU MM M MM DD DD 124 Englefield Drive EEEEE MM M MM
UU UU MM MM DD DD Gaithersburg, MD 20878 EE MM MM
UUUUUUU MM MM DDDDDD (301) 948-5174 EEEEEEE MM MM
University of Maryland Internet: [email protected] Epsilon Mu
College Park Bitnet: [email protected] Alpha Phi Omega
----------------- [ In Leadership, Friendship & Service ] ------------------
{What is your name?} (Jean-Luc Picard.)
{What is your quest?} (To seek out new life and civilization.)
{What is the average warp speed of a bird of prey?} (Klingon or Romulan?)
{What? I don't know that??!?! AIIIIEEEEEEEEE!!!!}

From [email protected] Thu Aug 12 11:55:06 1993
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(5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for [email protected]); Thu, 12 Aug 1993 14:45:43 -0400
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1993 14:45:43 -0400
From: Robert Morris <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: forwarding agents too compliant
Reply-To: [email protected]

Recognizing that I'm compounding the problem with my citation , I'd
like to throw out an observation and ask whether any existing or
contemplated mechanisms address it, either in the Pine community or
elsewhere. The message below arrived here with (at least) 2268
characters, counting the 80 bytes of consequential content. No doubt
it went to hundreds or thousands of recipients.

About 2/3 of the uninteresting bytes are RFC-822 fields, about 1/3 is
the user's signature file. So my question is this: are there mail
forwarding agents and protocols which say something like: "I've thrown
away N bytes of header and M bytes of content and am forwarding this
message without authentication". A lot of mailing lists would benefit
from this. (I am not talking about presenting less to the user. Like
most competent mailers, Pine can do this. I'm talking about automatically
_forwarding_ less than the received message).

Bob Morris

-----

Ahh, I haven't the stomach to forward the whole thing. It had five
Received: entries, and also

Errors-To:
Sender:
Date:
From:
Subject:
To:
Cc:
In-Reply-To:
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version:
Content-Type:

and 900 bytes of cutesy signature.

From [email protected] Thu Aug 12 15:07:12 1993
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Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1993 14:39:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steve Hubert <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: forwarding agents too compliant
To: Robert Morris <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

> So my question is this: are there mail
> forwarding agents and protocols which say something like: "I've thrown
> away N bytes of header and M bytes of content and am forwarding this
> message without authentication". A lot of mailing lists would benefit
> from this. (I am not talking about presenting less to the user. Like
> most competent mailers, Pine can do this. I'm talking about automatically
> _forwarding_ less than the received message).
>
> Bob Morris

It is certainly possible to configure the list exploder to remove pieces
of the message, and, for that matter, to configure mail transport agents
to do the same. However, the Host Requirements RFC requires that each
transport agent along the way adds a Received line, and 99% of the mail
administrators on the Internet would be upset if they weren't there. All
those header lines are about all you have to go on when there is a
problem, and there *is* is problem.

Received lines are our friends,
Steve Hubert

From [email protected] Thu Aug 12 15:55:28 1993
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id AA62292; Thu, 12 Aug 1993 16:43:20 -0600
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1993 16:43:20 -0600
From: [email protected] (Witold Owoc)
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: forwarding agents too compliant

On original ListServer a user can get either:
- SHORT headers (ListServer strips everything), so
one gets only headers on route from ListServer
- FULL headers (ListServer passes everything untouched).

Witold Owoc <[email protected]>

From [email protected] Fri Aug 13 12:05:57 1993
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Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1993 11:51:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sheryl Erez <[email protected]>
Subject: re: enhancement requests
To: dbradfor%[email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

David,

In May and June, we did some changes to try to make Pine's user interface
as good as it can be. I don't think it is a coincidence that three of
the four things you mention were fixed at that time.

The only one we left (after *much* discussion) was:
> i index (on highlighted folder) from the folder screen

There is an inherent dilemma in the FOLDER LIST (new name for folder
screen): Users need to be able to choose a new folder, but they also
need to be able to change their minds and stick with the folder they
were in before. In the newest version of Pine (3.84/3.85, due out real
soon now), you press "v" or <enter> to get to the index of the currently
highlighted folder. You press "i" to get to the index of the folder
which was open when you started with the FOLDER LIST.

Sheryl Erez
[email protected]
UW Network Information Center

On Wed, 11 Aug 1993 10:57:15 -0700 (PDT), David Bradford wrote:

> Subject: enhancement requests
> To: PINE Info <[email protected]>
>
>
> I'm using pine 3.07. It'd be nice to be able to:
>
> q quit from the folder screen
> i index (on highlighted folder) from the folder screen
> not have pine say [Unknown command: "f"] from folder screen (just
> ignore the "f" there)
> not have pine say [Unknown command: "m"] from the main menu
> (again, ignore it)
>
> Minor points, granted, but they would polish the operation of pine a bit.
>
> - Dave

From [email protected] Fri Aug 13 13:03:15 1993
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Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1993 15:48:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Rand <[email protected]>
Subject: sign me off
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <Pine.3.07.9308131500.E2323-7100000@gursey>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Could you please unsubscribe me from this group
Thanks
Michael
[email protected]

From [email protected] Sun Aug 15 11:19:17 1993
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Date: Sun, 15 Aug 93 14:08:59 -0400
From: [email protected] (Shyela Aberman)
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
To: [email protected], [email protected]
Subject: pine error on "about to end_tty_driver"

Hello,
Using Pine 3.05 under SunOS 4.1.x (I think it is 4.1.3, but I'm
not sure.), I keep on getting the following error:

Bug in Pine detected: "Received abort signal".
Exiting pine.
Floating exception

It occurs when I am switching views from one piece of mail to the
next in the queue. All the .pine-debug# files report "about to
end_tty_driver", but only some have "Pine Panic: Received abort
signal" after that.

I have included a pine-debug file for reference, but there doesn't
seem to be any other info than what I have already written.

So, the question is, is this a known bug? Is it a bug in pine or in
SunOS? If pine, is it fixed in 3.07 or will it be fixed in the
upcoming general release? If SunOS, is there a fix or a workaround
available?

Thankyou,
shy aberman
[email protected]

included .pine-debug1 file:
----------
Debug output of the Pine program (at debug level 2). Version 3.05
Sun Aug 15 13:41:07 1993

reading_pinerc "/usr/local/lib/pine.conf"
Open failed: No such file or directory
reading_pinerc "/home/emoryu1/labs/labsha/.pinerc"
Read 1684 characters
pinerc : /home/emoryu : personal-name : "Shyela Aberman"
pinerc : /home/emoryu : printer : "lpr -P aclw"
pinerc : /home/emoryu : personal-print-comma : "lpr -P aclw"
pinerc : /home/emoryu : last-time-prune-ques : "93.8"
pinerc : /home/emoryu : user-domain : "emoryu1.cc.emory.edu"
pinerc : /home/emoryu : inbox-path : "/usr/spool/mail/labsha"
pinerc : /home/emoryu : default-fcc : "/home/emoryu1/labs/labsha/mail/record"
pinerc : /home/emoryu : editor : "vi"
pinerc : /home/emoryu : feature-level : "old-growth"
pinerc : /home/emoryu : signature-file : ".sig"
pinerc : /home/emoryu : mail-directory : "mail"
pinerc : /home/emoryu : show-all-characters : "yes"
user-id : <unset> <unset> <unset>
personal-name : Shyela Aberman <unset> <unset>
printer : lpr -P aclw attached-to-ansi lpr -P aclw
personal-print-co : lpr -P aclw <unset> lpr -P aclw
standard-printer : <unset> lpr lpr
last-time-prune-q : 93.8 <unset> 93.8
user-domain : emoryu1.cc.emory.e <unset> emoryu1.cc.emory.e
use-only-domain-n : <unset> no no
inbox-path : /usr/spool/mail/la inbox /usr/spool/mail/la
elm-style-save : <unset> no no
header-in-reply : <unset> no no
default-fcc : /home/emoryu1/labs sent-mail /home/emoryu1/labs
bugs-nickname : <unset> <unset> <unset>
bugs-fullname : <unset> <unset> <unset>
bugs-address : <unset> <unset> <unset>
smtp-server : <unset> <unset> <unset>
editor : vi <unset> vi
image-viewer : <unset> <unset> <unset>
feature-level : old-growth sapling old-growth
old-style-reply : <unset> no no
signature-file : .sig .signature .sig
mail-directory : mail mail mail
compose-mime : <unset> <unset> <unset>
character-set : <unset> <unset> <unset>
show-all-characte : yes <unset> yes
new-version : <unset> <unset> <unset>
Userid: labsha
Fullname: "Shyela Aberman"
Password: ##labsha
User domain name being used "emoryu1.cc.emory.edu"
Local Domain name being used "cc.emory.edu"
Host name being used "emoryu1.cc.emory.edu"
Mail Domain name being used "emoryu1.cc.emory.edu"
new win size -----<24 80>------
Terminal type: dec-vt100
About to open folder "inbox" inbox: "inbox"
Opened folder "/usr/spool/mail/labsha" with 299 messages
Sorting by arrival

---- MAIN_MENU_SCREEN ----

---- MAIL INDEX ----

----- MAIL VIEW -----
about to end_tty_driver
Pine Panic: Received abort signal

From [email protected] Mon Aug 16 06:57:05 1993
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To: [email protected]
Subject: Waffle Pine?
From: [email protected] (Steve Traugott)
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 93 22:19:11 EDT
Organization: ---TerraLuna------* ...Organizational Engineering

Is anyone working on a port of Pine to the DOS/Waffle environment?

Steve
--- . . ` *
Steve Traugott ` . * + [email protected]
...Organizational Evolution + ` . . [email protected]
Unix/Internet Systems Engineer . [email protected] List Manager
Currently contracting in Summit, NJ . [email protected]

From [email protected] Mon Aug 16 08:59:12 1993
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Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1993 08:46:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Reply-To: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Waffle Pine?
To: Steve Traugott <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

What format does Waffle store messages in? We are looking at writing a
driver for QWK format message stores. If Waffle uses QWK then we will
probably be supporting it in a future release. If not, do you have
specifications for how it stores incoming/outgoing mail?

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Sun, 15 Aug 1993, Steve Traugott wrote:

> Is anyone working on a port of Pine to the DOS/Waffle environment?
>
> Steve
> --- . . ` *
> Steve Traugott ` . * + [email protected]
> ...Organizational Evolution + ` . . [email protected]
> Unix/Internet Systems Engineer . [email protected] List Manager
> Currently contracting in Summit, NJ . [email protected]
>
>
>

From [email protected] Tue Aug 17 08:46:42 1993
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Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1993 08:26:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rob Bains <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine for the DG port (fwd)
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I've been suggested to contact you in regards to porting Pine on to the DG
platform. Has this been done yet? or are their any plans to provide this port
in the future? Please let me know.

Thanx!!

-- Rob

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1993 16:12:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
To: Rob Bains <[email protected]>, [email protected]
Subject: Re: Pine for the DG port

Actually, it has bee brought to my attention that you should also check
with the pine-info list to see if someone has done a port that they
haven't told us about. The list address is
[email protected]. To subscribe to pine-info, send a note to
[email protected] with "subscribe pine-info" in the body of
the message.

On Tue, 10 Aug 1993, David L Miller wrote:

>
> This is the place to ask. Unfortunately, we do not currently have a DG
> port of Pine. We have been doing alot of work on making it more portable
> though, so you might want to try it again when version 3.85 comes out
> later this month.
>
> --
> |\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
> |/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
> University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
> 4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA
>
>
> On Tue, 10 Aug 1993, Rob Bains wrote:
>
> >
> > Hi;
> >
> > This may not be the correct place to ask this question. My apologies for
> > not being able to identify the key person to speak to. We have Pine
> > installed on a number of machines from a number of different vendors
> > including Sun, SGI, HP, and IBM RS/6000. It is working very nicely. Our
> > users are now so addicted to pine that they find it impossible to live
> > without it. This has resulted in a user request that we must have Pine
> > installed on a DG machine. The DG port is not supported for this
> > version of Pine. I tried installing Pine using a number of different
> > platforms. I had no success with that at all. So is there anyone out
> > there who might have achieved this? Or, has this port been reccently added
> > to the list of supported platforms? I would greatly appreciate any
> > suggestions and comments that will make it possible for me install Pine on
> > DG. If needed, my telephone number is (604) 822-5297, and my e-mail
> > address is:
> >
> > [email protected]
> >
> > Thank you in advance for your assistance.
> >
> > Best Regards.
> >
> >
> > -- Rob
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

From [email protected] Tue Aug 17 11:39:47 1993
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From: [email protected] (Andy)
Message-Id: <9308171805.AA07933@wndrsvr>
Subject: Re: your mail
To: [email protected], [email protected]
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1993 11:05:16 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9308131057.D686-a100000@relax> from "Jay Pfaffman" at Aug 13, 93 10:38:00 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22]
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Length: 1278

Bingo. I had thought I had introduced a new bug when I did the port to
ISC. Now I'm not so sure. I notice that the subject: header states
"Re: your mail", instead of whatever subject line it started with. I wonder
if anyone else has noticed this? I'm also using pine 3.05

- Andy

> If you're just interested in seeing how a client works, you might just
> look at the mtest program that comes with the IMAP client. It should be
> enough to see how to build a client w/o having to wade through lots of
> other stuff.
>
> Jay Pfaffman [email protected]
> Hoboken, NJ 07030 [email protected] --
> 201-217-4241 (work) 201-569-9500
>
>
> On Fri, 13 Aug 1993, [email protected] wrote:
> >
> > Hai... I'm interested on your pinepc..... using IMAP services...
> > Can you post to me the source code for PCPINE.. I'm studying a mail tool
> > and going to standardise our all mail in different platform that is unix
> > ( SUN ) , Macintosh, and IBM PC compatible... May be I'll create my own
> > mailtool for all platform or if you have pine on mac than I'll use pine
> > as our standard mailtool...
> > Hopefully I can get the source code for pcpine... So I'll get the idea
> > how IMAP daemon can give the service...
> >
>
>

From [email protected] Tue Aug 17 13:58:32 1993
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Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1993 13:39:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Elmar Kurgpold <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Elmar Kurgpold <[email protected]>
Subject: Conflict with NIS aliases?
To: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: (null)
Message-Id: <Pine.3.07.9308171305.H21039-a100000@hal>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Pardon me if this is a FAQ, but is there a conflict with Sun NIS aliases?
When I send mail to an alias that is defined in NIS, say 'group', the
address gets filled in as group@mymachine. I get an error from sendmail
that says it doesn't recognize the user. However, if I use the regular
/usr/ucb/mail or /bin/mail the mail goes through. If I log into my mail
server to use pine, it never seems to have the problem.

-------------------------
| Elmar Kurgpold |
| Network Administrator |
| USC Law Center |
| [email protected] |
-------------------------

From [email protected] Tue Aug 17 22:51:09 1993
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To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Waffle Pine?
From: [email protected] (Steve Traugott)
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 93 00:51:45 EDT
Organization: ---TerraLuna------* ...Aerospace Operations Process Group

David L Miller <[email protected]> writes:

> What format does Waffle store messages in?

Indexed MMDF - four ^A's separate each message, and there's an
additional index file to save time when sorting large mail folders.

The inbox is named 'mailbox.f', and is in the user's home directory,
accompanied by the index file, named 'mailbox.i'. Any other mail
folders are also kept in the home directory, and named *.f and *.i.

I haven't tried to figure out what the format of the index files is -
I own a source license so it could be reverse-engineered.

The location of the root of the user home directory tree (as well as a
few other pertinent things) is stored in the Waffle configuration
file, which is pointed to by the WAFFLE environment variable.

These characteristics are true of both the DOS and UNIX versions of
Waffle v1.65, which is the latest release.

DOS Waffle has an external command facility which lets it call other
mail and news readers seamlessly if they accept the user name on
their command line or from an environment variable.

Most ports of mail and news readers to the Waffle environment ignore
various parts of the above - which makes them clumsier to use than
their Waffle equivalents.

> We are looking at writing a driver for QWK format message stores.

Since I'm more of a UNIX person, I don't know the QWK format. Does
it bear any resemblance at all to MMDF, and does it use indexes? My
guess would be no on both counts, but it doesn't hurt to ask... ;-)

Steve
--- . . ` *
Steve Traugott ` . * + [email protected]
...Organizational Evolution + ` . . [email protected]
Unix/Internet Systems Engineer . [email protected] List Manager
Currently contracting in Summit, NJ . [email protected]

From [email protected] Wed Aug 18 08:26:37 1993
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Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1993 08:11:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Waffle Pine?
To: Steve Traugott <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Pine does support MMDF style mailboxes.

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Wed, 18 Aug 1993, Steve Traugott wrote:

> David L Miller <[email protected]> writes:
>
> > What format does Waffle store messages in?
>
> Indexed MMDF - four ^A's separate each message, and there's an
> additional index file to save time when sorting large mail folders.
>
> The inbox is named 'mailbox.f', and is in the user's home directory,
> accompanied by the index file, named 'mailbox.i'. Any other mail
> folders are also kept in the home directory, and named *.f and *.i.
>
> I haven't tried to figure out what the format of the index files is -
> I own a source license so it could be reverse-engineered.
>
> The location of the root of the user home directory tree (as well as a
> few other pertinent things) is stored in the Waffle configuration
> file, which is pointed to by the WAFFLE environment variable.
>
> These characteristics are true of both the DOS and UNIX versions of
> Waffle v1.65, which is the latest release.
>
> DOS Waffle has an external command facility which lets it call other
> mail and news readers seamlessly if they accept the user name on
> their command line or from an environment variable.
>
> Most ports of mail and news readers to the Waffle environment ignore
> various parts of the above - which makes them clumsier to use than
> their Waffle equivalents.
>
> > We are looking at writing a driver for QWK format message stores.
>
> Since I'm more of a UNIX person, I don't know the QWK format. Does
> it bear any resemblance at all to MMDF, and does it use indexes? My
> guess would be no on both counts, but it doesn't hurt to ask... ;-)
>
> Steve
> --- . . ` *
> Steve Traugott ` . * + [email protected]
> ...Organizational Evolution + ` . . [email protected]
> Unix/Internet Systems Engineer . [email protected] List Manager
> Currently contracting in Summit, NJ . [email protected]
>
>
>

From [email protected] Wed Aug 18 09:20:41 1993
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Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1993 09:06:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Reply-To: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Waffle Pine? (MMDF)
To: [email protected]
Cc: Steve Traugott <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Following up on my previous message, quoting Mark Crispin:

Yes, the latest c-client has an MMDF driver, or rather a driver which
claims to support MMDF mailboxes. Unfortunately, it is not presently
possible to use both the MMDF and Berkeley drivers in the same program
without designating one or the other as the INBOX driver. I expect to
solve this problem in the future.

What this means is that at present, the best way to have Pine support it
is to manually edit all reference to the bezerk driver to be to the mmdf
driver (that is, replacing one with the other). Dynaming switching is
still in the future.

Note that I only have the word of the submitter of the MMDF driver that it
works at all; we don't use MMDF here so I have no way of testing it. I
have received a report that an assumption made by the driver (that MMDF
format is like Berkeley format except for the CTRL/A's) may not be
correct.

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

From [email protected] Wed Aug 18 21:49:10 1993
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Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1993 21:19:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Jason R. Thorpe" <[email protected]>
Subject: Imap 3.0 on Sequent PTX 2.0.3...
To: PINE <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Sorry if this is a FAQ...

I have just build and installed imapd and ipopd on 3 HPs and a Sequent...

I love it...It's wonderful...HP performance is flawless...

The problem is on the Sequent...An S81 Symmetry running PTX 2.0.3...I have
problems logging in to the imap server on the sequent (from a Sun)...

I tried connecting directly to the IMAP socket (telnet storm 143) and
everything was fine...

Trying...
Connected to storm.cs.orst.edu.
Escape character is '^]'.
* OK storm.cs.orst.edu IMAP2bis Service 7.3(63) at Wed, 18 Aug 1993
21:25:59 -0700 (PDT)

However, when I hit 'return'...I get...

Connection closed by foreign host.

When I do this on the HPs...

Trying...
Connected to xanth.cs.orst.edu.
Escape character is '^]'.
* OK xanth.CS.ORST.EDU IMAP2bis Service 7.3(63) at Wed, 18 Aug 1993
21:25:07 -0700 (PDT)

* BAD Null command

What's happening on storm (the Sequent?)

Later...

/*****************************************************************************
Jason R. Thorpe - OSU Computer Science Support Staff
Bellnet: (503) 623-8514 Internet: [email protected]
*****************************************************************************/

From [email protected] Wed Aug 18 22:22:21 1993
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Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1993 22:00:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Subject: re: Imap 3.0 on Sequent PTX 2.0.3...
To: "Jason R. Thorpe" <[email protected]>
Cc: PINE <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Jason -

Sorry for the problem. The text below should be part of an FAQ:

For those of you who have the dubious fortune of using PTX, there is an
additional little song and dance you have to do before building the servers in
the IMAP toolkit, due to a charming ``feature'' in PTX. The inetd in PTX does
not do a complete job in setting up the file descriptors for a program that
runs under it.

To work around this problem, somewhere in the beginning of imapd/imapd.c
(and in ipopd/ipop2d.c and ipopd/ipop3d.c if you use the POP servers), insert
these three lines:

t_sync (0);
ioctl (0,I_PUSH,"tirdwr");
dup2 (0,1);

At some point in the future, this will occur automatically without users
having to edit in this change. Probably at the same time Sequent will change
PTX in a way that makes this workaround break things...

-- Mark --

From [email protected] Fri Aug 20 06:22:23 1993
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Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1993 08:21:07 -0400
From: Paul Maclauchlan <[email protected]>
Subject: Pine and WYSE 50 terminals
To: Pine Info mailing list <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9308200807.A16869-9100000@moore>
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I'd like to give PINE access to some of my users that only have access to WYSE
50 terminals. Unfortunately, the screen painting is not correct.

Is there a fix for this? I'm using Pine 3.05 on SunOS 4.1.3.

Thanks.

--
../Paul Maclauchlan
Moore Corporation Limited, Toronto, Ontario (416) 364-2600
[email protected] -or- {...!uunet.ca,...!telly}!moore!paul
"And the way she looked was way beyond compare."/PmcC'63

From [email protected] Fri Aug 20 08:29:33 1993
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Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1993 08:16:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine and WYSE 50 terminals
To: Paul Maclauchlan <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Info mailing list <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9308200807.A16869-9100000@moore>
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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Here is an excerpt from the last time this thread came up, posted by
Edward K. Yagi <[email protected]>:

> Perhaps its your Termcap entry for that terminal. I am able to use Pine3.05a
> at work on a true blue wyse50 fairly well. I just had to find the termcap
> entry for that terminal.
>
> This is the termcap that has worked for me..
>
> TERMCAP='wv|wyse-vp|wyse|Wyse 50 in ADDS Viewpoint emulation mode with
> "enhance" on:\
> :am:do=^J:if=/usr/share/lib/tabset/wyse-adds:\
> :le=^H:bs:li#24:co#80:cm=\EY%+ %+ :cd=\Ek:ce=\EK:nd=^F:\
> :up=^Z:cl=^L:ho=^A:ll=^A^Z:kl=^U:kr=^F:kd=^J:ku=^Z:kh=^A:\
> :pt:so=^N:se=^O:us=^N:ue=^O:dl=\El:al=\EM:im=\Eq:ei=\Er:dc=\EW:\
> :is=\E`\072\E`9^O\Er:rs=\E`\072\E`9^O\Er:'
>
> I said 'fairly' well because I am unable to use the arrow keys on the
> keypad. Control-P,Control-N etc for cursor movement all work, but Id
> like to have the keypad cursor keys to work also. Looking at the termcap
> info above, I tried changing the control sequences for ku,kd,kr,kl to
> control-p, control-n, control-b, control-f but Pine still does not
> recognise them. Any suggestions?
> edman

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Fri, 20 Aug 1993, Paul Maclauchlan wrote:

>
> I'd like to give PINE access to some of my users that only have access to WYSE
> 50 terminals. Unfortunately, the screen painting is not correct.
>
> Is there a fix for this? I'm using Pine 3.05 on SunOS 4.1.3.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> .../Paul Maclauchlan
> Moore Corporation Limited, Toronto, Ontario (416) 364-2600
> [email protected] -or- {...!uunet.ca,...!telly}!moore!paul
> "And the way she looked was way beyond compare."/PmcC'63
>
>
>

From [email protected] Fri Aug 20 08:39:16 1993
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Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1993 08:24:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Debra Ketchell <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: unsubscribe
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> unsubscribe me from this list.

Because of the change with Milton here on campus, I can't get off except
by listowner manually taking me off.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Debbie Ketchell Internet: [email protected]
Health Sciences Library Phone: 206.543.3409
University of Washington Fax: 206.543.8066
-------------------------------------------------------------------

From [email protected] Fri Aug 20 08:19:32 1993
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Subject: unsubscribe
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unsubscribe me from this list.

From [email protected] Fri Aug 20 10:55:56 1993
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Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1993 10:39:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mike Ramey <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Mike Ramey <[email protected]>
Subject: pine; rename 'saved-messages' and 'sent-mail' ???
To: General Help <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine-Info Email List <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii

Can I rename the 2 'special' folders:
saved-messages -> saved
sent-mail -> sent
and still have then appear in the #2 and #3 positions on the folder list?

As I recall, the .pinerc file has a line for specifying the name of the
'sent-mail' folder:
default-fcc=
but the .pinerc file does -not- allow specifying the name of the
'saved-messages' folder. Could this be added?

WHY DO I WANT TO RENAME THESE FOLDERS ???
Because (1) I move between these folders frequently, and (2) the long
names discourage me from using the "G" command. So I use
"MF<arrows><enter>" instead. Short names for these folders would allow me
to use the "G" command. I also want the new name ('saved') to be the
default offered when I save messages ... UNLESS I have previously saved to
another folder, then I want that last-used folder name offered instead.

WHY DO I WANT THE FILES TO REMAIN IN THE #2 AND #3 POSITIONS ???
Because that's where they are most convenient (as you know).
Can you display the other special folders ON THE FIRST LINE of the folder
list also:
postponed-message
interrupted-message
... (are there others?)

-Mike Ramey 685-0940 Wilcox-171 U-W Civil Eng FX-10 Seattle WA 98195.

From [email protected] Fri Aug 20 11:17:29 1993
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Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1993 11:03:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Wall <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: pine; rename 'saved-messages' and 'sent-mail' ???
To: Mike Ramey <[email protected]>
Cc: General Help <[email protected]>,
Pine-Info Email List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Mike,
I think you'd get almost everything you want by just creating a link in your
folder directory:
sent@ -> sent-mail

As for the save to last folder used, you'll see that as a configuration
option in the next release, I believe.
# saved-msg-name-rule= determines default folder name for Saves...
# Choose one: default-folder, by-sender, by-recipient last-folder-used
# Normal default is "default-folder"
saved-msg-name-rule=

--David Wall Computing & Communications...Client Services 3-8491
Univ. of Washington HG-45 [email protected]

On Fri, 20 Aug 1993, Mike Ramey wrote:

> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1993 10:39:38 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Mike Ramey <[email protected]>
> To: General Help <[email protected]>
> Cc: Pine-Info Email List <[email protected]>
> Subject: pine; rename 'saved-messages' and 'sent-mail' ???
>
> Can I rename the 2 'special' folders:
> saved-messages -> saved
> sent-mail -> sent
> and still have then appear in the #2 and #3 positions on the folder list?
>
> As I recall, the .pinerc file has a line for specifying the name of the
> 'sent-mail' folder:
> default-fcc=
> but the .pinerc file does -not- allow specifying the name of the
> 'saved-messages' folder. Could this be added?
>
> WHY DO I WANT TO RENAME THESE FOLDERS ???
> Because (1) I move between these folders frequently, and (2) the long
> names discourage me from using the "G" command. So I use
> "MF<arrows><enter>" instead. Short names for these folders would allow me
> to use the "G" command. I also want the new name ('saved') to be the
> default offered when I save messages ... UNLESS I have previously saved to
> another folder, then I want that last-used folder name offered instead.
>
> WHY DO I WANT THE FILES TO REMAIN IN THE #2 AND #3 POSITIONS ???
> Because that's where they are most convenient (as you know).
> Can you display the other special folders ON THE FIRST LINE of the folder
> list also:
> postponed-message
> interrupted-message
> ... (are there others?)
>
> -Mike Ramey 685-0940 Wilcox-171 U-W Civil Eng FX-10 Seattle WA 98195.
>

From [email protected] Fri Aug 20 13:06:12 1993
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Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1993 13:52:40 -0600
From: [email protected] (Richard D Warner)
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]

unsubscribe me from this list

From [email protected] Fri Aug 20 14:09:35 1993
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Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1993 16:46:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: pine error on "about to end_tty_driver"
To: Shyela Aberman <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected], [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I believe this is fixed in 3.07. If not, there's another abort bug on
SunOS that is fixed so it's worth getting. Another problem I've seen
with SunOS occurs with the GNU compiler. I believe you have to compile
args.c and ttyin.c with the standard Sun compiler or you get aborts like
these.

Laurence Lundblade
[email protected] 703-552-2537
Virginia Tech -- Blacksburg, Virginia

On 15 Aug 1993, Shyela Aberman wrote:
>
> Hello,
> Using Pine 3.05 under SunOS 4.1.x (I think it is 4.1.3, but I'm
> not sure.), I keep on getting the following error:
>
> Bug in Pine detected: "Received abort signal".
> Exiting pine.
> Floating exception
>
> It occurs when I am switching views from one piece of mail to the
> next in the queue. All the .pine-debug# files report "about to
> end_tty_driver", but only some have "Pine Panic: Received abort
> signal" after that.
>
> I have included a pine-debug file for reference, but there doesn't
> seem to be any other info than what I have already written.
>
> So, the question is, is this a known bug? Is it a bug in pine or in
> SunOS? If pine, is it fixed in 3.07 or will it be fixed in the
> upcoming general release? If SunOS, is there a fix or a workaround
> available?
>
> Thankyou,
> shy aberman
> [email protected]
>

From [email protected] Fri Aug 20 15:57:07 1993
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Date: Fri, 20 Aug 93 17:37:39 CDT
From: [email protected] (Dr. Abdelsalam Helal)
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
To: [email protected], [email protected]
Subject: Re: unsubscribe

Please unsubscripe me too. I have tried but I always
received an error message.

A. Helal---

From [email protected] Fri Aug 20 17:21:11 1993
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Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1993 20:03:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Export
To: Ian Dunkin <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.07.9308091754.B876-8100000@uk0x04>
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Didn't see a response to this. The answer is easy. Pine never overwrites
and always appends. Maybe that should be documented some where.

Laurence Lundblade
[email protected] 703-552-2537
Virginia Tech -- Blacksburg, Virginia

On 9 Aug 1993, Ian Dunkin wrote:

>
> No doubt it's staring me in the screen, but I can't _see_ any way with
> the Export command to overwrite an existing file rather than
> appending to it. Which I quite often would like to do.
>
> IS there a way??
>
> I.
>
>
>
>

From [email protected] Fri Aug 20 18:56:21 1993
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Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1993 18:29:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Jason R. Thorpe" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Export
To: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Cc: Ian Dunkin <[email protected]>, [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Fri, 20 Aug 1993, Laurence Lundblade wrote:

> Didn't see a response to this. The answer is easy. Pine never overwrites
> and always appends. Maybe that should be documented some where.

I don't suppose this could be included as an option in .pinerc or perhaps
have two export commands? One for append and one for overwrite?

>
> Laurence Lundblade
> [email protected] 703-552-2537
> Virginia Tech -- Blacksburg, Virginia
>
>
> On 9 Aug 1993, Ian Dunkin wrote:
>
> >
> > No doubt it's staring me in the screen, but I can't _see_ any way with
> > the Export command to overwrite an existing file rather than
> > appending to it. Which I quite often would like to do.
> >
> > IS there a way??
> >
> > I.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

/*****************************************************************************
Jason R. Thorpe - OSU Computer Science Support Staff
Bellnet: (503) 623-8514 Internet: [email protected]
*****************************************************************************/

From [email protected] Mon Aug 23 03:11:51 1993
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Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1993 10:43:14 +0100 (BST)
From: Ian Dunkin <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Export
To: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
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On Fri, 20 Aug 1993, Laurence Lundblade wrote:

> Didn't see a response to this. The answer is easy. Pine never overwrites
> and always appends. Maybe that should be documented some where.

Laurence,

Thanks for the reply. Does anyone else feel (as I do) that it would
sometimes be _useful_ to be able to overwrite an existing file with the
Export command, rather than append? Do the Pine Developers like the
idea??

(Example: say you get mailed a new version of a particular file from time
to time: you want to export it overwriting the old version rather than
appending to it.)

Perhaps when the export file already exists, Pine, instead of asking
`overwrite y/n?', could ask `overwite/append/leave?', or something ??

Thanks,

I.

Ian Dunkin <[email protected]>

From [email protected] Mon Aug 23 03:49:39 1993
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Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1993 06:34:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael A. Crowley" <[email protected]>
Reply-To: "Michael A. Crowley" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Export
To: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Mon, 23 Aug 1993, Ian Dunkin wrote:

> Laurence,
>
> Thanks for the reply. Does anyone else feel (as I do) that it would
> sometimes be _useful_ to be able to overwrite an existing file with the
> Export command, rather than append? Do the Pine Developers like the
> idea??
> .... del ....
> Perhaps when the export file already exists, Pine, instead of asking
> `overwrite y/n?', could ask `overwite/append/leave?', or something ??
>
> Ian Dunkin <[email protected]>
>
I would like to pose the opposing view. An important feature of pine
is that it does not give so many choices that novice users (or even
experienced ones) have to make many choices. This keeps support to
a minimum. Each additional feature may seem logical, but they can
add up to something overloaded with bells and whistles.

In this particular case, I agree that would be useful to be able to
overwrite a file on occasion. Howver, I find it sufficiently easy to
use the UNIX rm command or edit the extract file that I have a mild
preference to have pine simply and unconditionally append.

Now I _would_ prefer to have the option of specifying the path with ./filename
so that I could extract anywhere. Since that would not alter the
standard behavior of the program and since it uses normal UNIX notation,
I would not see that in the same realm as adding another feature.

More views and opinions?

-mike [email protected]

From [email protected] Mon Aug 23 05:06:51 1993
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Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1993 14:54:47 +0300 (IDT)
From: Bob Gregory <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Bob Gregory <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Export
To: [email protected]
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Just to voice strong agreement that cautious control of adding new
features is definitely a pine virtue. I find Pine's current behaviour for
export is usually what is wanted. A destructive overwrite would be unsafe
for novices, and experienced folks workaround it easily when necessary.

Supporting paths relative to where pine starts with an explicit syntax
(like ./filename) would be handy. I would rather have a means to do
environment variable substitution in pathnames (e.g. $FARAWAY/somefile) as
an old-growth option.

-- Bob Gregory <[email protected]>

On Mon, 23 Aug 1993, Michael A. Crowley wrote:

> On Mon, 23 Aug 1993, Ian Dunkin wrote:
>
> > Laurence,
> >
> > Thanks for the reply. Does anyone else feel (as I do) that it would
> > sometimes be _useful_ to be able to overwrite an existing file with the
> > Export command, rather than append? Do the Pine Developers like the
> > idea??
> > .... del ....
> > Perhaps when the export file already exists, Pine, instead of asking
> > `overwrite y/n?', could ask `overwite/append/leave?', or something ??
> >
> > Ian Dunkin <[email protected]>
> >
> I would like to pose the opposing view. An important feature of pine
> is that it does not give so many choices that novice users (or even
> experienced ones) have to make many choices. This keeps support to
> a minimum. Each additional feature may seem logical, but they can
> add up to something overloaded with bells and whistles.
>
> In this particular case, I agree that would be useful to be able to
> overwrite a file on occasion. Howver, I find it sufficiently easy to
> use the UNIX rm command or edit the extract file that I have a mild
> preference to have pine simply and unconditionally append.
>
> Now I _would_ prefer to have the option of specifying the path with
> ./filename so that I could extract anywhere. Since that would not
> alter the standard behavior of the program and since it uses normal
> UNIX notation, I would not see that in the same realm as adding
> another feature.
>
> More views and opinions?
>
> -mike [email protected]

From [email protected] Mon Aug 23 07:44:50 1993
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Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1993 09:39:55 -0500 (CDT)
From: Patrick Heck <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Patrick Heck <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Export
To: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 23 Aug 1993, Michael A. Crowley wrote:

> I would like to pose the opposing view. An important feature of pine
> is that it does not give so many choices that novice users (or even
> experienced ones) have to make many choices. This keeps support to
> a minimum. Each additional feature may seem logical, but they can
> add up to something overloaded with bells and whistles.

I agree with Michael on this one.

> In this particular case, I agree that would be useful to be able to
> overwrite a file on occasion. Howver, I find it sufficiently easy to
> use the UNIX rm command or edit the extract file that I have a mild
> preference to have pine simply and unconditionally append.

It can also be done from within pine. Just move to the folders screen and
delete the folder. Then go back to Index screen and save.

> Now I _would_ prefer to have the option of specifying the path with ./filename
> so that I could extract anywhere. Since that would not alter the
> standard behavior of the program and since it uses normal UNIX notation,
> I would not see that in the same realm as adding another feature.

I think you can do this. However, in your example the "." would refer to
the $HOME/mail directory (in our case anyway). Specifying "../filename"
saves it in the $HOME directory for us (pine 3.07 for SunOS).

Patrick Heck
University of Evansville [email protected]

From [email protected] Mon Aug 23 08:41:43 1993
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From: Nancy McGough <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Export
To: [email protected]
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 93 8:25:33 PDT
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>; from "Michael A. Crowley" at Aug 23, 93 6:34 am
Reply-To: Nancy McGough <[email protected]>
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

I also agree with everyone who voiced a fear of creeping
feature-itis. It would be great, though, if Pine had a
few high level commands that power users could use to do
all kinds of things. My requests:

1] Ability to pipe a message (when is this scheduled to
be implemented?)

In this export-and-overwrite example you could just do:

| cat > filename

2] Ability to shell out while using Pine (any plans for this?)
In this example you could first:

!rm filename

And then use the Pine Export. (I prefer method 1 but the
ability to shell out would be useful for other things.)

3] Macros (any plans for this?)
Given that 1 and 2 are implemented, macros would give power
Pine users all kinds of power.

Thanks,
Nancy

From [email protected] Mon Aug 23 09:33:30 1993
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Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1993 17:11:03 +0100 (BST)
From: Ian Dunkin <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Export
To: Patrick Heck <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 23 Aug 1993, Patrick Heck wrote:

> > In this particular case, I agree that would be useful to be able to
> > overwrite a file on occasion. Howver, I find it sufficiently easy to
> > use the UNIX rm command or edit the extract file that I have a mild
> > preference to have pine simply and unconditionally append.
>
> It can also be done from within pine. Just move to the folders screen and
> delete the folder. Then go back to Index screen and save.

We were talking about exporting to files, not saving to Pine
folders.

I.

From [email protected] Mon Aug 23 10:41:43 1993
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Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1993 11:46:49 -0500 (CDT)
From: Patrick Heck <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Export
To: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
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> On Mon, 23 Aug 1993, Patrick Heck wrote:
>
> > > In this particular case, I agree that would be useful to be able to
> > > overwrite a file on occasion. Howver, I find it sufficiently easy to
> > > use the UNIX rm command or edit the extract file that I have a mild
> > > preference to have pine simply and unconditionally append.
> >
> > It can also be done from within pine. Just move to the folders screen and
> > delete the folder. Then go back to Index screen and save.
>
> We were talking about exporting to files, not saving to Pine
> folders.
>

Whoops! And can you believe that my biggest complaint to my students is
that they don't read the directions closely enough! :-/

Patrick Heck
University of Evansville [email protected]

From [email protected] Mon Aug 23 12:14:39 1993
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Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1993 14:58:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dan Schlitt <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Export
To: Nancy McGough <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I also have times when I yearn for a shell escape. But I quickly return
to my senses. It is a real advantage to not have a shell escape from a
security standpoint. Perhaps as a compile time option for those who
really don't care, but not as a configurable option please.

If I save something from mail I don't find it an intolerable burden to
give the file a new name and do some rm and mv stuff after I exit to put
the file where I want it instead of overwriting the file. The way I look
at it, I'm much more able to do that and I want a simple mail user agent
for most of the people who use pine.

/dan

Dan Schlitt School of Engineering Computer Systems
[email protected] City College of New York
(212)650-6760 New York, NY 10031

From [email protected] Mon Aug 23 12:38:52 1993
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Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1993 15:28:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alex Tang <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Export
To: Dan Schlitt <[email protected]>
Cc: Nancy McGough <[email protected]>, [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 23 Aug 1993, Dan Schlitt wrote:

> I also have times when I yearn for a shell escape. But I quickly return
> to my senses.

Yeah, I've longed for a shell escape, but a ctrl-z usually does it for me.
I wish that pine could automatically enter another editor (like vi) instead of
pico. But that would kind of destroy the whole ease of use thing.

All these comments could possibly go in a feature list like old-growth, or the
like...it could be called really-bitchin-old, or petrified..... :)

Alex Tang -- [email protected]@UMICHUM.BITNET
U of M, SNRE: Student and Computer Consultant II
ITD/CSS Consultant and...General Fun Loving Guy :)

From [email protected] Mon Aug 23 12:40:58 1993
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Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1993 12:25:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joe Pollock <[email protected]>
Subject: New features...
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I fully agree with the concept of keeping Pine as simple as possible. Of
course, we all have our own idea of "simple." :-)

I have had several users ask me if Pine or Pico has a command to move you
to either the top or bottom of a message. A useful command for people who
manipulate long messages.

Could this be already present, but undocumented?

Joe

From [email protected] Mon Aug 23 13:03:17 1993
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Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1993 12:41:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sharon Deng <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Export
To: Dan Schlitt <[email protected]>
Cc: Nancy McGough <[email protected]>, [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 23 Aug 1993, Dan Schlitt wrote:

> I also have times when I yearn for a shell escape. But I quickly return
> to my senses. It is a real advantage to not have a shell escape from a
> security standpoint. Perhaps as a compile time option for those who
> really don't care, but not as a configurable option please.
>
> If I save something from mail I don't find it an intolerable burden to
> give the file a new name and do some rm and mv stuff after I exit to put
> the file where I want it instead of overwriting the file. The way I look
> at it, I'm much more able to do that and I want a simple mail user agent
> for most of the people who use pine.
>
> /dan
>
> Dan Schlitt School of Engineering Computer Systems
> [email protected] City College of New York
> (212)650-6760 New York, NY 10031
>
>

I couldn't agree more what Dan said. Most of the people just want a
simple mail user agent, and they don't care or don't even want to know
what unix commands are. My users keep telling me that the Pine is the
best mail agent they ever had. And I hope it will be the best forever.

Sharon Deng
Assistant Director Internet: [email protected]
Academic Computer Center [email protected]
University of Redlands Phone: (909)793-2121 x.4963

From [email protected] Mon Aug 23 13:19:33 1993
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Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1993 16:09:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alex Tang <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Export
To: Jim Kenyon <[email protected]>
Cc: Dan Schlitt <[email protected]>,
Nancy McGough <[email protected]>, [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 23 Aug 1993, Jim Kenyon wrote:

> On Mon, 23 Aug 1993, Alex Tang wrote:
>
> > Yeah, I've longed for a shell escape, but a ctrl-z usually does it for me.
> > I wish that pine could automatically enter another editor (like vi) instead of
> > pico. But that would kind of destroy the whole ease of use thing.

> PINE can use another editor, use the following line in your .pinerc
>
> # Editor to use in place of Pine's internal composer, Pico
> editor=vi
>

Thanx jim....but the optimal word is **automatically** enter another
editor. I wish that it would just dump me into vi from the start, instead
of having to do ^_ (which in some cases doesn't work....but that's another
story....) Like i said, it's just wishful thinking for a more configurable
pine.....nothing more.

..alex...

Alex Tang -- [email protected]@UMICHUM.BITNET
U of M, SNRE: Student and Computer Consultant II
ITD/CSS Consultant and...General Fun Loving Guy :)

From [email protected] Mon Aug 23 13:20:34 1993
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Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1993 16:06:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Kenyon <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Export
To: Alex Tang <[email protected]>
Cc: Dan Schlitt <[email protected]>,
Nancy McGough <[email protected]>, [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 23 Aug 1993, Alex Tang wrote:

Stuff deleted...
>
> Yeah, I've longed for a shell escape, but a ctrl-z usually does it for me.
> I wish that pine could automatically enter another editor (like vi) instead of
> pico. But that would kind of destroy the whole ease of use thing.
>
> Alex Tang -- [email protected]@UMICHUM.BITNET
> U of M, SNRE: Student and Computer Consultant II
> ITD/CSS Consultant and...General Fun Loving Guy :)

PINE can use another editor, use the following line in your .pinerc

# Editor to use in place of Pine's internal composer, Pico
editor=vi

Jim Kenyon -- [email protected]
Systems Research Programmer II, School of Public Health

From [email protected] Mon Aug 23 16:37:13 1993
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V4.2-11 #2434) id <[email protected]>; Tue,
24 Aug 1993 09:28:58 GMT
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 09:24:06 +1000 (EST)
From: Steve Woodyatt <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Export
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
To: Alex Tang <[email protected]>
Cc: Jim Kenyon <[email protected]>,
Dan Schlitt <[email protected]>,
Nancy McGough <[email protected]>, [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

On Mon, 23 Aug 1993, Alex Tang wrote:

>
> Thanx jim....but the optimal word is **automatically** enter another
> editor. I wish that it would just dump me into vi from the start, instead
> of having to do ^_ (which in some cases doesn't work....but that's another
> story....) Like i said, it's just wishful thinking for a more configurable
> pine.....nothing more.
>

Agreed! If you specify an alternative editor (in the individual
users .pinerc), surely it should dump you immediately into your choice.

As for the current dicussion on feature 'explosion' within pine, I would
have thought that the seedling/sapling/old-growth options would be the
perfect wide to 'hide' complex features.

If you are a seedling, all you see is a very simple interface (which pine
is all about), up to old-growth where you should be able to make
considerable short-cuts and configuration.

Steve.

-------------------------------------------------------------------/\/\---
Steve Woodyatt, Research Scientist, Geoscience & Spatial Systems. / / /\
BHP Research - Newcastle Laboratories, Australia./ / / \
Snail : P.O. Box 188, Wallsend 2287 / / / /\ \
Tel : +61 49 510695 Fax: +61 49 502126 \ \/ / / /
Internet: [email protected] \ / / /
------------------------------------------------------------------\/\/\/--

From [email protected] Mon Aug 23 18:58:10 1993
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Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1993 21:46:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: New features...
To: Joe Pollock <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I think the big problem in doing stuff like this is key bindings. There
just aren't enough letters in the alphabet to keep it simple and
uncluttered.

A cute trick to get to the top of a message, especially for slow lines,
is to go to the previous message and then the next (which is of course
what you were just reading). That's only two full screen repaints
instead of however many screenfuls to scroll back to the top.

Laurence Lundblade
[email protected] 703-552-2537
Virginia Tech -- Blacksburg, Virginia

On 23 Aug 1993, Joe Pollock wrote:

>
> I fully agree with the concept of keeping Pine as simple as possible. Of
> course, we all have our own idea of "simple." :-)
>
> I have had several users ask me if Pine or Pico has a command to move you
> to either the top or bottom of a message. A useful command for people who
> manipulate long messages.
>
> Could this be already present, but undocumented?
>
> Joe
>
>
>
>
>

From [email protected] Mon Aug 23 23:05:35 1993
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Return-Path: <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 08:53:41 +0300 (IDT)
From: Eran Lachs <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Eran Lachs <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: New features...
To: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Cc: Joe Pollock <[email protected]>, [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

On Mon, 23 Aug 1993, Laurence Lundblade wrote:

> A cute trick to get to the top of a message, especially for slow lines,
> is to go to the previous message and then the next (which is of course
> what you were just reading). That's only two full screen repaints
> instead of however many screenfuls to scroll back to the top.

.. or go to the mail index screen and view again (hit 'i' and Return).

-Eran

From [email protected] Tue Aug 24 01:51:37 1993
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Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 09:29:59 +0100 (BST)
From: "D.K.Brownlee" <[email protected]>
Subject: Shell Escape (Was Re: Export)
To: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.07.9308240958.A9350-a100000@Carlisle>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 23 Aug 1993, Dan Schlitt wrote:

> I also have times when I yearn for a shell escape. But I quickly return
> to my senses. It is a real advantage to not have a shell escape from a
> security standpoint. Perhaps as a compile time option for those who
> really don't care, but not as a configurable option please.
>
Personally I find 'pine -z' to give me the ability to ^Z pine gives
me all that I want as far as shell access goes - its quicker than
firing up a new shell each time - & you get all you history etc :)

PS: Suggestion for pine, can we have a .pinerc option that does the
equivalent of -z?

David

|\/| [email protected]. Network Analyst. Postmaster. Hostmaster.
| | Telephone: (+44) 71 477 8000 Ext:3757.
Snailmail: E308, City University, Northampton Sq, Islington, London ECIV 0HB.

(Note: Apologies if my current mail seems somewhat terse, but I have recently
had surgery on my left hand. This has somewhat impaired my typing)

From [email protected] Tue Aug 24 03:09:27 1993
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Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 05:12:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael A. Crowley" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Shell Escape (Was Re: Export)
To: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.07.9308240958.A9350-a100000@Carlisle>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Given you can ^Z, you are probably running a shell with aliasing
capabilities (e.g., csh, tcsh...). Rather than changing pine, why not:
alias p 'pine -iz'
Or something like that. (I like the '-i' option at all times.)
- mike

On Tue, 24 Aug 1993, D.K.Brownlee wrote:
..
> Personally I find 'pine -z' to give me the ability to ^Z pine gives
> me all that I want as far as shell access goes - its quicker than
> firing up a new shell each time - & you get all you history etc :)
>
> PS: Suggestion for pine, can we have a .pinerc option that does the
> equivalent of -z?
>
> David
>
> |\/| [email protected]. Network Analyst. Postmaster. Hostmaster.

From [email protected] Tue Aug 24 13:02:21 1993
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Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 11:47:07 -0600 (PDT)
From: Brandon Hechinger <[email protected]>
Subject:
To: [email protected]
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un-subscribe [email protected]
(is that right?)
unsubscribe me please.. B)
..Brandon

From [email protected] Tue Aug 24 13:41:27 1993
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Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 13:24:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: your mail
To: Brandon Hechinger <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9308241103.A9494-7100000@wndrsvr>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Actually, it should have been

unsubscribe pine-info [email protected]

and sent to [email protected], not to the whole list.

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Tue, 24 Aug 1993, Brandon Hechinger wrote:

> un-subscribe [email protected]
> (is that right?)
> unsubscribe me please.. B)
> ...Brandon
>
>
>
>

From [email protected] Tue Aug 24 13:18:31 1993
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To: "Pine mailer discussions group (pine-infoEcac.washington.edu)" <[email protected]>,
Nancy McGough <[email protected]>,
Dan Schlitt <[email protected]>,
Michael A. Crowley <[email protected]>,
D.K.Brownlee <[email protected]>,
Pine-Info Email List <[email protected]>

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Nancy McGough <[email protected]>,
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Michael A. Crowley <[email protected]>,
D.K.Brownlee <[email protected]>,
Pine-Info Email List <[email protected]>

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Pine-Info Email List <[email protected]>

From [email protected] Tue Aug 24 20:46:15 1993
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From: [email protected]
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Subject: unsubscribe
To: [email protected]
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 93 20:40:25 PDT
In-Reply-To:
X-Achnowledge-To: <[email protected]>

Sam Lester 1993_08_24.Tuesday

Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85]

unsubscribe me from this list.

[email protected]

From [email protected] Thu Aug 26 09:38:49 1993
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Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 08:53:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Subject: "Reply-to"
To: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Several folks have requested that Pine support a "Reply-to" header.
This is definitely on the list and will probably make it into Pine 4.0.
However, in some cases it seems to me that the problem people are trying
to solve can be addressed already via the "user-domain" variable in the
pinerc...

This variable, if set, specifies what will be on the right side of the "@"
sign in the "From: " field of outgoing messages (among other things). For
example, if you receive some of your mail at "[email protected]" but
you want people to send to a generic address such as "[email protected]"
this can be done by setting "user-domain=u.washington.edu".

In PC-Pine you can also set the left side of the @ in the From: field via
the userid variable. But on Unix Pine, the account names on the machine
where mail is delivered and the machine where you run Pine must match.
(That limitation is why a reply-to would be handy in some cases.)

-teg

From [email protected] Thu Aug 26 14:08:35 1993
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Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1993 06:49:41 +1000 (EST)
From: Jack Churchill <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: "Reply-to"
To: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Thu, 26 Aug 1993, Terry Gray wrote:

> Several folks have requested that Pine support a "Reply-to" header.
> This is definitely on the list and will probably make it into Pine 4.0.
> However, in some cases it seems to me that the problem people are trying
> to solve can be addressed already via the "user-domain" variable in the
> .pinerc...
>
> This variable, if set, specifies what will be on the right side of the "@"
> sign in the "From: " field of outgoing messages (among other things). For
> example, if you receive some of your mail at "[email protected]" but
> you want people to send to a generic address such as "[email protected]"
> this can be done by setting "user-domain=u.washington.edu".
>
> In PC-Pine you can also set the left side of the @ in the From: field via
> the userid variable. But on Unix Pine, the account names on the machine
> where mail is delivered and the machine where you run Pine must match.
> (That limitation is why a reply-to would be handy in some cases.)

My instant recommendation on such matters is to fix the problem at the
sendmail end and not at the user agent end, and use IDA sendmail.
Although IDA is not intuative to install, once it is and you understand
its "language" it is a very nice and easy system for doing the above. For
example, a user named joe at a machine called blah.cs.washington.edu can
have his header *AND* his envolope "From" address mapped to say
[email protected].

Jack N. Churchill | [email protected]
CSIRO Division of Exploration and Mining | [email protected]
PO Box 136 North Ryde NSW 2113 | Phone: +61 2 887 8884
Australia | Fax: +61 2 887 8921

From [email protected] Thu Aug 26 22:36:48 1993
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Message-Id: <[email protected]>
From: [email protected] (Bill Campbell)
Subject: Re: "Reply-to"
To: [email protected] (Jack Churchill)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 22:26:37 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]> from "Jack Churchill" at Aug 27, 93 06:49:41 am
Reply-To: [email protected]
Organization: Celestial Software, Mercer Island, WA 98040
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22]
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 1258

>
> On Thu, 26 Aug 1993, Terry Gray wrote:
>.....
> My instant recommendation on such matters is to fix the problem at the
> sendmail end and not at the user agent end, and use IDA sendmail.
> Although IDA is not intuative to install, once it is and you understand
> its "language" it is a very nice and easy system for doing the above. For
> example, a user named joe at a machine called blah.cs.washington.edu can
> have his header *AND* his envolope "From" address mapped to say
> [email protected].
>
This doesn't address the problem I have here. I use several
different logins on my systems here and would like e-mail replies
to come back to a single login. Reply-To: handles this very
nicely. This is the job of the MUA (Mail User Agent), not the
MTA (Mail Transport Agent). Typically it requires action by the
system administrator to do things in the MTA while the users can
do the MUA stuff themselves.

I know Pine is not Elm, but the ~/.elm/elmheaders file is a very
simple solution which would be trivial to implement in Pine.

Bill
--
INTERNET: [email protected] Bill Campbell; Celestial Software
UUCP: uunet!camco!bill 8545 SE 68th Street
FAX: (206) 232-9186 Mercer Island, WA 98040; (206) 947-5591

From [email protected] Thu Aug 26 23:49:55 1993
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(5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for [email protected]); Fri, 27 Aug 1993 16:41:10 +1000
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1993 16:31:17 +1000 (EST)
From: Jack Churchill <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: "Reply-to"
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Thu, 26 Aug 1993, Bill Campbell wrote:

> >
> > On Thu, 26 Aug 1993, Terry Gray wrote:
> >.....
> > My instant recommendation on such matters is to fix the problem at the
> > sendmail end and not at the user agent end, and use IDA sendmail.
> > Although IDA is not intuative to install, once it is and you understand
> > its "language" it is a very nice and easy system for doing the above. For
> > example, a user named joe at a machine called blah.cs.washington.edu can
> > have his header *AND* his envolope "From" address mapped to say
> > [email protected].
> >
> This doesn't address the problem I have here. I use several
> different logins on my systems here and would like e-mail replies
> to come back to a single login. Reply-To: handles this very
> nicely. This is the job of the MUA (Mail User Agent), not the
> MTA (Mail Transport Agent). Typically it requires action by the
> system administrator to do things in the MTA while the users can
> do the MUA stuff themselves.

The environment you work in certainly can make a difference. IDA can do
what you want and more. It can set the same return address for different
users on not only the same machine but different ones on your local area
network or domain. It all depends on how easy it is to get the system
manager to keep changing the settings. That's all. By all means let pine
do some of the work that IDA can do but just keep in mind that other
solutions do already exist.

Jack N. Churchill | [email protected]
CSIRO Division of Exploration and Mining | [email protected]
PO Box 136 North Ryde NSW 2113 | Phone: +61 2 887 8884
Australia | Fax: +61 2 887 8921

From [email protected] Fri Aug 27 05:43:30 1993
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Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Subject: requesting pine info
To: [email protected]
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 93 8:33:14 EDT
From: Tony Klein <[email protected]>
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Content-Type: text
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Please send me any information you have on Pine... we are looking to put
together an e-mail system for fairly stupid users that are computer illiterate.

Thanks,
Tony

[email protected]

From [email protected] Fri Aug 27 06:11:40 1993
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Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1993 08:57:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: James Douglas <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: requesting pine info
To: Tony Klein <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9308270804.A17433-9100000@pool>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I also need a "User Guide" rather than the tech-notes for the many less
knowledgeable computer users.

Thanks,

Jim D.

On Fri, 27 Aug 1993, Tony Klein wrote:

> Please send me any information you have on Pine... we are looking to put
> together an e-mail system for fairly stupid users that are computer illiterate.
>
> Thanks,
> Tony
>
> [email protected]

From [email protected] Fri Aug 27 12:39:39 1993
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Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1993 15:24:11 -0400
From: "Sunjay T. Bedi" <[email protected]>
Subject: Pine running on Alpha
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Will the new version of pine run on a DEC (ALPHA) OSF/1 V1.2 Worksystem
Software (Rev. 10)?

If not, has anyone on the net ported pine 3.07 to the alpha machines?

=========================================================
Sunjay T. Bedi, (519)888-4567, ext. 5297 /\ /\
[email protected] / \ / \
University of Waterloo /____\/____\
=========================================================

From [email protected] Fri Aug 27 13:08:26 1993
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Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1993 12:56:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine running on Alpha
To: "Sunjay T. Bedi" <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Yes, Pine 3.85 will include a port for DEC ALPHA OSF/1 V1.2. We don't
use ALPHA's in a production environment here so it has not been tested
all that thoroughly, but it will be in there.

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Fri, 27 Aug 1993, Sunjay T. Bedi wrote:

>
> Will the new version of pine run on a DEC (ALPHA) OSF/1 V1.2 Worksystem
> Software (Rev. 10)?
>
> If not, has anyone on the net ported pine 3.07 to the alpha machines?
>
> =========================================================
> Sunjay T. Bedi, (519)888-4567, ext. 5297 /\ /\
> [email protected] / \ / \
> University of Waterloo /____\/____\
> =========================================================
>
>

From [email protected] Fri Aug 27 13:41:38 1993
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Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1993 16:28:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael A. Crowley" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine running on Alpha
To: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Fri, 27 Aug 1993, David L Miller wrote:

>
> Yes, Pine 3.85 will include a port for DEC ALPHA OSF/1 V1.2. We don't
> use ALPHA's in a production environment here so it has not been tested
> all that thoroughly, but it will be in there.

Has anyone tried taking an Ultrix compiled pine and using mx on it
to make an alpha osf/1 version?

-mike

From [email protected] Fri Aug 27 15:01:55 1993
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Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1993 14:50:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: David L Miller <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine running on Alpha
To: "Michael A. Crowley" <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Well, I suppose it might work, but why not just wait a couple weeks for
the real thing?

|\ | |\/| David L. Miller [email protected] (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ | | Software Engineer, Pine Development Team (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Fri, 27 Aug 1993, Michael A. Crowley wrote:

> On Fri, 27 Aug 1993, David L Miller wrote:
>
> >
> > Yes, Pine 3.85 will include a port for DEC ALPHA OSF/1 V1.2. We don't
> > use ALPHA's in a production environment here so it has not been tested
> > all that thoroughly, but it will be in there.
>
> Has anyone tried taking an Ultrix compiled pine and using mx on it
> to make an alpha osf/1 version?
>
> -mike
>
>

From [email protected] Sat Aug 28 13:44:28 1993
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Return-Path: <[email protected]>
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1993 23:35:55 +0200 (GMT+0200)
From: OFER Lapid 4X6OJ <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: unsubscribe
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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I would like to be removed from this list too.
Thanks

--
Ofer Lapid 4X6OJ
E-mail: [email protected]

From [email protected] Mon Aug 30 21:40:57 1993
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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1993 21:38:03 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <77888.lspraggs@[142.23.2.21]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Please unsubscribe

Please unsubscribe [email protected]
L. D. Spraggs
FAX: (604) 542-3695
TEL: (604) 542-0112
[email protected]

From [email protected] Tue Aug 31 02:04:07 1993
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Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 09:50:52 +0100
To: [email protected]
From: [email protected] (Mike Roch)
Subject: Additional feature for novices

I'm very much in sympathy with the "keep it simple" philosophy of Pine;
adding lots of power options is probably going to benefit relatively few
users who could usually get those features elsewhere anyway.

Having said that, I'd like to suggest a feature that would benefit novice
users and system administrators alike. You know the "Move sent-mail to
sent-mail-aug93?" feature? Could I suggest that "Move inbox to inbox-aug93"
would be much more beneficial?

Several correspondents have sought tools for managing overlarge mailboxes
in the mail spool. The problem is usually caused by novices who don't
appreciate that subscribing to lots of lists (and forgetting how to use
"unsubscribe"), mailing themselves binaries from gopher servers, or simlply
keeping al their mail together rather than filing it in folders has an
impact on other users (or the whole system).

The trouble with the tools available is _by_definition_ the users who need
them can't use them - and these same users are Pine's target group. At the
moment our sysadmins find oversize mailboxes, move them to home directories
and compress them. The mail is recoverable by users of course, but the
prime offenders/victims tend to be pretty traumatised by this.

I think that Pine should offer something here and adding (or even
substituting) the feature above would help a great deal. The existing
feature is nice but only renames a file in the user's mail folder - it has
no general benefit.

Mike

==================================================================
Mike Roch, Computer Services Centre, Tel: 0734 318430
The University, Reading, RG6 2AF, UK Fax: 0734 753094

From [email protected] Tue Aug 31 08:42:42 1993
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Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 11:28:02 -0300 (EDT)
From: bob ellsworth s <[email protected]>
Subject: inbox folder
To: [email protected]
Cc: ron craig F <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

hi : we have observed that "pine" will not move a message from a generic
folder to the "inbox" folder. when we attempt this, pine says the "message
is saved and marked for deletion" but the message never shows up in "inbox".

can anyone on the list comment on this. (we are currently running pine 3.05)

From [email protected] Tue Aug 31 10:33:05 1993
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Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 13:20:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: "James D. Gillmore" <[email protected]>
Reply-To: "James D. Gillmore" <[email protected]>
Subject: Just another suggestion
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

I would like to suggest that in some future release a mechanism be in
place that allows mail bounced for bad address (user unknown, host
unknown) to be resent with the corrected information. Many times it is a
fat fingered typo and up to now I tell the users to save the message as a
file edit off the mail stuff and then read the file into a new pine session.
Or perhaps, someone has a better idea? I am open to suggestions to a
better way

______________________________________________________________________________
Jim Gillmore E-mail [email protected]
Manager Network Services VOICE 215.683.4199
Kutztown University of PA FAX 215.683.4634
LMS Annex Room 105 HOME 717.865.5820
Holidays & Weekends 717.567.3931
It is not a mistake until you repeat it!
______________________________________________________________________________

From [email protected] Tue Aug 31 11:21:28 1993
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From: ABC News <[email protected]>
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Please unsubscribe [email protected].

From [email protected] Tue Aug 31 11:25:01 1993
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Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 14:14:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ron Pool <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Just another suggestion
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On Tue, 31 Aug 1993, James D. Gillmore wrote:
> I would like to suggest that in some future release a mechanism be in
> place that allows mail bounced for bad address (user unknown, host
> unknown) to be resent with the corrected information. Many times it is a
> fat fingered typo and up to now I tell the users to save the message as a
> file edit off the mail stuff and then read the file into a new pine session.
> Or perhaps, someone has a better idea? I am open to suggestions to a
> better way

What I do in these cases is forward the message to the new address and
edit it on-screen to get rid of the bounce information I don't want. I
don't see why saving it in an intermediate file would be easier or better.
--
Ron Pool; Electronic Technology Group; B-15 Wing Hall; Ithaca, NY 14853
Internet: [email protected]

From [email protected] Tue Aug 31 11:43:11 1993
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Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 11:29:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mike Ramey <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Just another suggestion
To: "James D. Gillmore" <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
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I use the F[orward] command; then use the pine composer to ^K
[delete-line] and ^U [undelete-line] and ^D [delete-character];
thus moving the address up into the header, and removing all the
error messages; then send the reconstituted message on its way.
--Mike Ramey 685-0940 Wilcox-171 U-W Civil Eng FX-10 Seattle WA 98195.

On Tue, 31 Aug 1993, James D. Gillmore wrote:
> I would like to suggest that in some future release a mechanism be in
> place that allows mail bounced for bad address (user unknown, host
> unknown) to be resent with the corrected information. Many times it is a
> fat fingered typo and up to now I tell the users to save the message as a
> file edit off the mail stuff and then read the file into a new pine session.
> Or perhaps, someone has a better idea? I am open to suggestions to a
> better way

From [email protected] Tue Aug 31 13:38:26 1993
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Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 13:28:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Jason R. Thorpe" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Just another suggestion
To: "James D. Gillmore" <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
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Message-Id: <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 31 Aug 1993, James D. Gillmore wrote:

> I would like to suggest that in some future release a mechanism be in
> place that allows mail bounced for bad address (user unknown, host
> unknown) to be resent with the corrected information. Many times it is a
> fat fingered typo and up to now I tell the users to save the message as a
> file edit off the mail stuff and then read the file into a new pine session.
> Or perhaps, someone has a better idea? I am open to suggestions to a
> better way

I just forward it to the correct address and hack out all the
unnecessaries, like the old mail stuff, right there (as well as the (fwd)
in the header...)

Later...

/*****************************************************************************
Jason R. Thorpe - OSU Computer Science Support Staff
Bellnet: (503) 623-8514 Internet: [email protected]
*****************************************************************************/

From [email protected] Tue Aug 31 15:47:32 1993
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Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 23:32:01 +0100 (BST)
From: Alan Ward <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Additional feature for novices
To: Mike Roch <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
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I like the system in which the inbox only contains new and/or unread mail
- mail which has been read moves to mbox in the users home/mail directory
as previous mail.

Alan Ward

[email protected] Department of Microbiology
Medical School
University of Newcastle upon Tyne NE2 4HH

On Tue, 31 Aug 1993, Mike Roch wrote:

> I'm very much in sympathy with the "keep it simple" philosophy of Pine;
> adding lots of power options is probably going to benefit relatively few
> users who could usually get those features elsewhere anyway.
>
> Having said that, I'd like to suggest a feature that would benefit novice
> users and system administrators alike. You know the "Move sent-mail to
> sent-mail-aug93?" feature? Could I suggest that "Move inbox to inbox-aug93"
> would be much more beneficial?
>
> Several correspondents have sought tools for managing overlarge mailboxes
> in the mail spool. The problem is usually caused by novices who don't
> appreciate that subscribing to lots of lists (and forgetting how to use
> "unsubscribe"), mailing themselves binaries from gopher servers, or simlply
> keeping al their mail together rather than filing it in folders has an
> impact on other users (or the whole system).
>
> The trouble with the tools available is _by_definition_ the users who need
> them can't use them - and these same users are Pine's target group. At the
> moment our sysadmins find oversize mailboxes, move them to home directories
> and compress them. The mail is recoverable by users of course, but the
> prime offenders/victims tend to be pretty traumatised by this.
>
> I think that Pine should offer something here and adding (or even
> substituting) the feature above would help a great deal. The existing
> feature is nice but only renames a file in the user's mail folder - it has
> no general benefit.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> ==================================================================
> Mike Roch, Computer Services Centre, Tel: 0734 318430
> The University, Reading, RG6 2AF, UK Fax: 0734 753094
>
>

From [email protected] Tue Aug 31 16:45:28 1993
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Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 19:22:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Virtual Dave Lankes <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Additional feature for novices
To: Alan Ward <[email protected]>
Cc: Mike Roch <[email protected]>, [email protected]
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NO! Please no. While I admit for administrative purposes this makes sense,
it does not fit into Pine. Users are used to the "pile of mail"
approach...both expert and novice. They like working from a central store
and pruning.

Also, having been a victim of NeXTMail that already does this, it creates
nightmares for working in a distributed environment. If you are used to
IMAP clients, moving from one computer to another, or even shared mail
between accouts this is the worst thing possible. You end up with the old
POP dilema of messages and mail on twenty computers all over the place. One of
the features of PINE I love is the use of the Post Office as inbox rather
than displacing mail.

On Tue, 31 Aug 1993, Alan Ward wrote:

> I like the system in which the inbox only contains new and/or unread mail
> - mail which has been read moves to mbox in the users home/mail directory
> as previous mail.
>
> Alan Ward
>
> [email protected] Department of Microbiology
> Medical School
> University of Newcastle upon Tyne NE2 4HH

....................................................
: "Virtual" Dave Lankes [email protected] :
: AskERIC Consultant <--SPIN--> EGIS Coordinator :
: School of Information Studies,Syracuse University :
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

From [email protected] Tue Aug 31 17:07:47 1993
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Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 16:57:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mike Ramey <[email protected]>
Subject: Show folder on printed messages ?
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Is there any interest in showing the folder name on printed messages?

From [email protected] Tue Aug 31 17:32:33 1993
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Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1993 01:20:59 +0100 (BST)
From: Alan Ward <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Alan Ward <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Additional feature for novices
To: Virtual Dave Lankes <[email protected]>
Cc: Alan Ward <[email protected]>, Mike Roch <[email protected]>,
[email protected]
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On Tue, 31 Aug 1993, Virtual Dave Lankes wrote:
> On Tue, 31 Aug 1993, Alan Ward wrote:
>
> > I like the system in which the inbox only contains new and/or unread mail
> > - mail which has been read moves to mbox in the users home/mail directory
> > as previous mail.

> NO! Please no. While I admit for administrative purposes this makes sense,
> it does not fit into Pine. Users are used to the "pile of mail"
> approach...both expert and novice. They like working from a central store
> and pruning.

Pruning - now that really does make your mail inaccessible! If you get mail
you have to manage it. Pine does it with sent-mail .. (pity it is the 1st
question new users get asked).
I quite often get told by users that mail has been lost (mail they have
read) - but they have deleted it, because that is what pine encourages.

> Also, having been a victim of NeXTMail that already does this, it creates
> nightmares for working in a distributed environment. If you are used to
> IMAP clients, moving from one computer to another, or even shared mail
> between accouts this is the worst thing possible. You end up with the old
> POP dilema of messages and mail on twenty computers all over the place. One of
> the features of PINE I love is the use of the Post Office as inbox rather
> than displacing mail.

I don't know the technical problems but I think IMAP should manage mail
folders not just the inbox. I am just as likely to want access to the
mail message I sent in reply as the previous mail message I received.

Thanks Alan Ward

[email protected] Department of Microbiology
Medical School
University of Newcastle upon Tyne NE2 4HH