From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Thu Apr 1 03:41:07 1993

From [email protected] Thu Apr 1 03:41:07 1993
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Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1993 12:29:58 +0100 (BST)
From: Mike Roch <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Mike Roch <[email protected]>
Subject: Pine/other/disk space (fwd)
To: [email protected]
Cc: Christine Storey x8436 <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9304011205.C7325-b100000@suma2>
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One of my colleagues has noticed a glich:-

> Does pine have a bug in the section where its offers to report on disk
> space used and available. The used bit seems OK but 'available' always
> seems to report 0bytes? Am sure it's not urgent but may be easily fixed by
> a tweek in the installation, perhaps.

Number of folders: 81
Space used by mail folders: 2,739,358 characters
(2.7Mb)
Free space available for mail on disk drive: 0 characters (0 bytes)
Mail directory: /home/sunserv/ru/su/suqroch/mail

Is this a bug in Pine or a problem with the way we've installed it? Does
the free space refer to the system mailbox, or the user's mail folder
partition?

We're not using imap; we have ~100 Suns that NFS mount a mail directory
(and it's not [often] full)!

Filesystem kbytes used avail capacity Mounted on
suma1:/var/spool/mail
99724 80357 9394 90% /var/spool/mail

My folders live where hers do;

Filesystem kbytes used avail capacity Mounted on
sunserv:/home/sunserv/ru
108091 94155 3126 97% /home/sunserv/ru

Mike

==============================================================================
Mike Roch, Computer Services Centre, Tel: 0734 318430
The University, Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AX. Fax: 0734 753094

From [email protected] Thu Apr 1 05:07:56 1993
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Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1993 07:55:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine/other/disk space (fwd)
To: Mike Roch <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected],
Christine Storey x8436 <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9304011205.C7325-b100000@suma2>
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It probably should be classified as a bug in Pine. UNIX systems provide
system calls to figure out the space used in a directory, but they don't
provide system calls to get the amount of space available in a file
system.

What Pine does to retrieve this value is run the "df" command and pick
apart the output. If the "df" command is not located in the right place or
the format doesn't match what Pine is expecting it'll get confused and
report the wrong value. There's a number of formats of "df" output on
different systems and vendors don't think twice about changing it.

What probably needs to be done is to tweek the code that runs and parses
the "df" output for suns, or at least your suns. (Maybe a different
version of SunOS?) If it's Pine 3.05 I think the code should be correct
for the some suns.

LL

On Thu, 1 Apr 1993, Mike Roch wrote:

> One of my colleagues has noticed a glich:-
>
> > Does pine have a bug in the section where its offers to report on disk
> > space used and available. The used bit seems OK but 'available' always
> > seems to report 0bytes? Am sure it's not urgent but may be easily fixed by
> > a tweek in the installation, perhaps.
>
> Number of folders: 81
> Space used by mail folders: 2,739,358 characters
> (2.7Mb)
> Free space available for mail on disk drive: 0 characters (0 bytes)
> Mail directory: /home/sunserv/ru/su/suqroch/mail
>
> Is this a bug in Pine or a problem with the way we've installed it? Does
> the free space refer to the system mailbox, or the user's mail folder
> partition?
>
> We're not using imap; we have ~100 Suns that NFS mount a mail directory
> (and it's not [often] full)!
>
> Filesystem kbytes used avail capacity Mounted on
> suma1:/var/spool/mail
> 99724 80357 9394 90% /var/spool/mail
>
> My folders live where hers do;
>
> Filesystem kbytes used avail capacity Mounted on
> sunserv:/home/sunserv/ru
> 108091 94155 3126 97% /home/sunserv/ru
>
> Mike
>
> ==============================================================================
> Mike Roch, Computer Services Centre, Tel: 0734 318430
> The University, Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AX. Fax: 0734 753094
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

From [email protected] Thu Apr 1 05:21:36 1993
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Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1993 12:57:16 +0000 (GMT)
From: Barry Cornelius <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Barry Cornelius <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine/other/disk space (fwd)
To: Mike Roch <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected],
Christine Storey x8436 <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9304011205.C7325-b100000@suma2>
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On Thu, 1 Apr 1993, Mike Roch wrote:

> > Does pine have a bug in the section where its offers to report on disk
> > space used and available. The used bit seems OK but 'available' always
> > seems to report 0bytes? ...
> ... My folders live where hers do;
>
> Filesystem kbytes used avail capacity Mounted on
> sunserv:/home/sunserv/ru
> 108091 94155 3126 97% /home/sunserv/ru

Choosing "o" for "other" from the main menu followed by "d" for "disk"
will sometimes give the free space available on the disk drive as 0 bytes.
This will happen if the name of the Filesystem is long, say, more than
about 17 characters. In such situations, the output produced by df
(or bdf) straddles two lines.

The code (in both Versions 3.05 and 3.07 of pine) assumes that this output is
all on one line. The lines:
/* Skip the filesystem */
p = buf;
for(;*p != ' '; p++);
can be replaced by:
/* Skip the filesystem */
p = buf;
for(;*p != ' ' && *p != '\0'; p++);
/* *p == ' ' || *p == '\0' */
if (*p == '\0') {
if(fgets(buf, sizeof(buf), df_s) == NULL)
return(-2);
p = buf;
}

--
Barry Cornelius Electronic mail: [email protected]
Post: Computing Service, University of Durham, Durham, DH1 3LE, England
Phone: Durham (091 or +44 91) 374 4717, Secretary:374 2892, Fax:374 3741

From [email protected] Thu Apr 1 05:37:19 1993
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Message-Id: <[email protected]>
From: Gordon Good <[email protected]>
To: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Cc: Mike Roch <[email protected]>, [email protected],
Christine Storey x8436 <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine/other/disk space (fwd)
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 01 Apr 93 07:55:59 EST."
<[email protected]>
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 93 08:25:34 -0500
Status: O
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>It probably should be classified as a bug in Pine. UNIX systems provide
>system calls to figure out the space used in a directory, but they don't
>provide system calls to get the amount of space available in a file
>system.

Why wouldn't statfs(2) work? Seems like a more standard way of doing things
than expecting df output to be the same across vendors.

-Gordon

From [email protected] Thu Apr 1 08:21:35 1993
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Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1993 11:08:55 -0500 (EST)
From: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine/other/disk space (fwd)
To: Gordon Good <[email protected]>
Cc: Mike Roch <[email protected]>, [email protected],
Christine Storey x8436 <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
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On Thu, 1 Apr 1993, Gordon Good wrote:
>
> >It probably should be classified as a bug in Pine. UNIX systems provide
> >system calls to figure out the space used in a directory, but they don't
> >provide system calls to get the amount of space available in a file
> >system.
>
> Why wouldn't statfs(2) work? Seems like a more standard way of doing things
> than expecting df output to be the same across vendors.
>
> -Gordon

You're right this is the best solution and will hopefully get on the to do
list.

I think this was a somewhat recent addition to UNIX systems (it wasn't in
4.1BSD when I learned all the system calls). It's also not on all systems
so some of the current code needs to be retained.

I think Barry's solution will also solve the problem.

LL

From [email protected] Thu Apr 1 09:18:21 1993
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Subject: Pine on BSD-386
To: [email protected]
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1993 12:06:47 -0500 (EST)
From: Steven E Frazier <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Steven E Frazier <[email protected]>
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I would like to hear from you if you are running pine and pico on BSD/386.
Thanks.

steve

--
Norstan Communications, Inc. | Steven E. Frazier
8101 N. High Street Suite 100 |---------------------------------------
Columbus, OH 43235 | Local : sfrazier
Voice 614-785-7335 Fax 614-785-7337 | Remote: [email protected]

From [email protected] Thu Apr 1 12:45:18 1993
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Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1993 12:29:38 -0800 (PST)
From: "David L. Miller" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine/other/disk space (fwd)
To: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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It should be a pretty easy fix as well. That code is already in the
system-dependant modules (os-unx.c) so the change should be pretty easy, and
transparent to other systems...

*****************************************************************************
David L. Miller Internet: [email protected]
Systems Programmer/Network Analyst BITNET: MILLERD@WSUVM1
Washington State University Tri-Cities UUCP: ...!yoda!dmiller
100 Sprout Road
Richland, WA 99352 Phone: (509)375-9245
*****************************************************************************

On Thu, 1 Apr 1993, Laurence Lundblade wrote:

> On Thu, 1 Apr 1993, Gordon Good wrote:
> >
> > >It probably should be classified as a bug in Pine. UNIX systems provide
> > >system calls to figure out the space used in a directory, but they don't
> > >provide system calls to get the amount of space available in a file
> > >system.
> >
> > Why wouldn't statfs(2) work? Seems like a more standard way of doing things
> > than expecting df output to be the same across vendors.
> >
> > -Gordon
>
> You're right this is the best solution and will hopefully get on the to do
> list.
>
> I think this was a somewhat recent addition to UNIX systems (it wasn't in
> 4.1BSD when I learned all the system calls). It's also not on all systems
> so some of the current code needs to be retained.
>
> I think Barry's solution will also solve the problem.
>
> LL
>
>
>
>

From [email protected] Fri Apr 2 12:28:44 1993
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Message-Id: <[email protected]>
From: [email protected] (Mike Scheuerman)
Subject: Pine, ipopd, & QVT/Net integration
To: [email protected] (Pine Info)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1993 12:27:42 -0800 (PST)
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We've just installed the imapd/ipopd3 software on our Sequent ptx system and
now we're trying to use QPC's Win QVT/Net to access the pop3 server and
nothing is happening. We're trying to figure out if it's our POP install
or a problem with QVT/Net.

We've added the following information to the etc/inetd.conf file:

pop3 stream tcp nowait root /usr/etc/ipop3d ipop3d
imap stream tcp nowait root /usr/etc/imapd imapd

We've adding the following to the etc/services file:

pop 109/tcp postoffice
pop3 110/tcp
imap 143/tcp

Is there anything there or elsewhere that we're missing??

If that all looks ok, has anybody had experience with the Win QVT/Net v3.22
pop mail? When we try and open up a pop session it just sits there and
nothing happens. Occasionally it will say that the connection has been lost
but only the first time we try to open a session.

We appreciate you're putting up with us novices and the help.

Thanks

Mike Scheuerman

From [email protected] Fri Apr 2 14:22:12 1993
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Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1993 14:03:01 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Subject: re: Pine, ipopd, & QVT/Net integration
To: Mike Scheuerman <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Info <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Mike -

There is a ``feature'' of PTX which requires that a couple of PTX-unique
lines be added at the start of every daemon that runs under inetd. I'll dig
up what you need to add to ipop?d and imapd to make these work under PTX.

The number of gratuituous incompatibilities in PTX from other flavors of
UNIX (even SVR4) is astounding.

Regards,

-- Mark --

From [email protected] Fri Apr 2 14:34:27 1993
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Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1993 14:10:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Subject: re: Pine, ipopd, & QVT/Net integration
To: Mike Scheuerman <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Info <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Mike -

Here's what you need to do to get imapd and ipop?d to run under
PTX. Edit the source files as follows then rebuild:

Add the following two includes with the others:
#include <tiuser.h>
#include <stropts.h>

In the main() function, at the very beginning (right after the
local variable declarations), add these lines:
tsync (0);
ioctl (0,I_PUSH,"tirdwr");
dup2 (0,1);

This is necessary before a server running under inetd on PTX can
do any stdin input. Why this crap is necessary (it isn't on any other
flavor of UNIX I know), only Sequent knows.

Please let me know if you have any further problems.

-- Mark --

From [email protected] Sat Apr 3 11:09:56 1993
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Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1993 11:05:14 -0600 (CST)
From: Jeff Earickson <[email protected]>
Subject: Possible pine 3.07 bug
To: pine-info <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Dear Pine,

Scenario: Sun 3/60 running SunOS4.1.1, Pine compiled with gcc 2.3.3.

I seem to have encountered a mysterious bug in Pine 3.07, where the process
just goes to sleep right after starting up. It never gets to the point where
it puts the menu on the screen, and this problem only occurs sporadically.
Some investigation with the debugger indicates that the problem might
be about the time pine does the gethostbyname() call in getdomainnames()
in os-unx.c. In looking at this piece of code, it is not clear to me
that any memory is ever allocated for the hostent structure, so the
use of the contents of "he" may be bogus. What's going on here?

/*------------------------------------------------------------------------*/
/* Jeff Earickson, Cray/nCUBE/Sun Consultant|e-mail: [email protected] */
/* Alabama Supercomputer Network | Work Phone: (205) 348-3969 */
/* Boeing Computer Services | Work Fax: (205) 348-3993 */
/* Address: PO Box 870346, University of Alabama, Tuscaloosa, AL 35487 */
/* Alabama 13-0-0, 1992 National Football Champions. Roll Tide! */
/* */
/* Caduceus, n. [Latin]: a shaft with two snakes entwined around it in a */
/* strangling embrace, historically used as the symbol of the medical */
/* profession. In modern times, this symbol has become more */
/* appropriate to the legal profession.... */
/*------------------------------------------------------------------------*/

From [email protected] Sat Apr 3 11:37:07 1993
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Subject: BSD/386 Port of Pine/Pico?
To: [email protected]
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1993 14:27:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Steven E Frazier <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Steven E Frazier <[email protected]>
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Has Pine and Pico been ported to BSD/386?

Thanks.

Steve

--
Norstan Communications, Inc. | Steven E. Frazier
8101 N. High Street Suite 100 |---------------------------------------
Columbus, OH 43235 | Local : sfrazier
Voice 614-785-7335 Fax 614-785-7337 | Remote: [email protected]

From [email protected] Sat Apr 3 12:06:48 1993
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Subject: Attachments in Pine
To: [email protected]
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1993 14:58:02 -0500 (EST)
From: Steven E Frazier <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Steven E Frazier <[email protected]>
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21]
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What type of attachments does Pine support?

Will it support a binary file? If so, does pine actually do an uuencode on
the binary file?

Thanks.

--
Norstan Communications, Inc. | Steven E. Frazier
8101 N. High Street Suite 100 |---------------------------------------
Columbus, OH 43235 | Local : sfrazier
Voice 614-785-7335 Fax 614-785-7337 | Remote: [email protected]

From [email protected] Sat Apr 3 12:23:08 1993
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Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1993 12:08:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Subject: re: Attachments in Pine
To: Steven E Frazier <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Pine will attach arbitrary format files. It does so using the emerging
Internet standard for multi-part mail, MIME.

The actual encoding used is either BASE64 or QUOTED-PRINTABLE, depending upon
the characteristics of the data. These encoding formats are much more
resilient to structural damage of the data. uuencode, on the other hand, is
quite vulnerable to several syndromes of data damage.

MIME is supported in an increasing number of mailers. Recently Microsoft
stated that it will be supporting MIME in its SMTP gateway, replacing RFC-1154
and uuencode. Although uuencode is undoubtably more prevalent today, MIME can
be expected to rapidly overtake it.

Unfortunately, uuencode is not interoperable with BASE64, although they use
similar formats. Fortunately, BASE64 decoders are trivial to write, and
Nathaniel Borenstein's metamail package includes a public-domain standalone
BASE64 decoder.

-- Mark --

From [email protected] Sat Apr 3 13:48:06 1993
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Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1993 13:30:04 -0800 (PST)
From: "David L. Miller" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Attachments in Pine
To: Steven E Frazier <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
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On Sat, 3 Apr 1993, Steven E Frazier wrote:

> What type of attachments does Pine support?
>
> Will it support a binary file? If so, does pine actually do an uuencode on
> the binary file?
>

Pine does not use uuencode to encode binary files. Instead, it uses what
is called Base64 Content-Transfer-Encoding. It performs the same function
as uuencode, but is not compatible. According to RFC1341 (MIME), Base64
has the advantage of working with all versions of EBCDIC. If you want to
write your own encoder/decoder, section 5.2 of the RFC should give you
enough info to whip one out...

*****************************************************************************
David L. Miller Internet: [email protected]
Systems Programmer/Network Analyst BITNET: MILLERD@WSUVM1
Washington State University Tri-Cities UUCP: ...!yoda!dmiller
100 Sprout Road
Richland, WA 99352 Phone: (509)375-9245
*****************************************************************************

From [email protected] Sat Apr 3 15:07:53 1993
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Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1993 14:46:51 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Seibel <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Michael Seibel <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Possible pine 3.07 bug
To: Jeff Earickson <[email protected]>
Cc: pine-info <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Status: RO
X-Status:

Unfortunately, this isn't likely the problem as gethostbyname() returns a
pointer into static data. I'm not sure yet where the problem lies, but it
could be related to a bug I'm hunting in the ultrix version that results
in bogus data returned by disk_quota() under certain conditions. I'll let
you know what turns up...

Michael Seibel
Networks and Distributed Computing [email protected]
University of Washington, Seattle (206) 543 - 0359

On Sat, 3 Apr 1993, Jeff Earickson wrote:

>
> Dear Pine,
>
> Scenario: Sun 3/60 running SunOS4.1.1, Pine compiled with gcc 2.3.3.
>
> I seem to have encountered a mysterious bug in Pine 3.07, where the process
> just goes to sleep right after starting up. It never gets to the point where
> it puts the menu on the screen, and this problem only occurs sporadically.
> Some investigation with the debugger indicates that the problem might
> be about the time pine does the gethostbyname() call in getdomainnames()
> in os-unx.c. In looking at this piece of code, it is not clear to me
> that any memory is ever allocated for the hostent structure, so the
> use of the contents of "he" may be bogus. What's going on here?
>
>
> /*------------------------------------------------------------------------*/
> /* Jeff Earickson, Cray/nCUBE/Sun Consultant|e-mail: [email protected] */
> /* Alabama Supercomputer Network | Work Phone: (205) 348-3969 */
> /* Boeing Computer Services | Work Fax: (205) 348-3993 */
> /* Address: PO Box 870346, University of Alabama, Tuscaloosa, AL 35487 */
> /* Alabama 13-0-0, 1992 National Football Champions. Roll Tide! */
> /* */
> /* Caduceus, n. [Latin]: a shaft with two snakes entwined around it in a */
> /* strangling embrace, historically used as the symbol of the medical */
> /* profession. In modern times, this symbol has become more */
> /* appropriate to the legal profession.... */
> /*------------------------------------------------------------------------*/

From [email protected] Sat Apr 3 23:24:52 1993
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Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1993 23:13:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine on BSD-386
To: Steven E Frazier <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
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On Thu, 1 Apr 1993, Steven E Frazier wrote:

> I would like to hear from you if you are running pine and pico on BSD/386.
> Thanks.

Steve,
We just recently got word of a BSD386 port. I'll try to get details for
you (and we'll try to incorporate the mods in the next version.)

-teg

From [email protected] Mon Apr 5 04:35:05 1993
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Subject: pine on SVR4 ?
To: [email protected]
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 93 13:19:08 MET DST
From: Paul P. Kolk <[email protected]>
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Status: O
X-Status:

Hi,

can you tell me if someone has contacted you about having ported pine to
386/486 SVR4 unix ?.

I've been trying with Pine3.05, but haven't had much luck. I've tried various
combinations and eventually compiled without an error.Unfortunately, when I try
to send mail (I get the question through Pico:"send mail now ?" ) it crashes
with a segmentation fault and dumps core.

I've also tried the ptx build,(since I have a sequent available with PTX 1.3.1
and our U6000/35-65 is binary compatible with bcs generated executables on the
sequent, so moving the binaries after the build to SVR4 environment is possible)
but can only get it correctly built with the -j option (POSIX).This option
makes my binaries not in bcs format, and therefore I cannot move them to the
SVR4 platform.

I would also appreciate if you could tell me if I'm using the latest release,
or is there already a higher release available.

regards,

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DISCLAIMER: This statement is not an official statement from, nor does it
represent an official position of, Unisys Nederland N.V
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul P. Kolk | Telephone: +31 20 5658574
Unisys Nederland NV | Telefax : +31 20 6977755
CSE Unix Support | E-mail : [email protected]
Hoogoorddreef 11 | NET2 : 770 8574
1101 BA Amsterdam |
The Netherlands |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From [email protected] Mon Apr 5 12:56:07 1993
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Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1993 14:25:52 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jeff Earickson <[email protected]>
Subject: pine 3.07 bug and paranoia
To: pine-info <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

Hi again,

Pine seems to core dump upon finishing when you run pine within an xterm
window. I originally reported this bug back with 3.04, and it got fixed
in 3.05. Its back... I thought at the time that it had to do with the
"Pine Finished" message trying to print while the xterm window is dying.
Why is this message in the code anyway? It is useless and un-Unix.

On another subject, why is Pine in the business of changing passwords, or
even monkeying with the password part of the getpwent structure at all??!!
I find it disturbing and offensive to discover my encrypted password buried
in the .pine-debug file. Being the paranoid individual that I am, I
envision nefarious uses of this information by parties unknown. After all,
this IS a mail program, so encrypted passwords could be mailed off without
the user's knowledge. I think that pine-central should consider removing
the password manipulations from this fine program....

/*------------------------------------------------------------------------*/
/* Jeff Earickson, Cray/nCUBE/Sun Consultant|e-mail: [email protected] */
/* Alabama Supercomputer Network | Work Phone: (205) 348-3969 */
/* Boeing Computer Services | Work Fax: (205) 348-3993 */
/* Address: PO Box 870346, University of Alabama, Tuscaloosa, AL 35487 */
/* Alabama 13-0-0, 1992 National Football Champions. Roll Tide! */
/* */
/* Caduceus, n. [Latin]: a shaft with two snakes entwined around it in a */
/* strangling embrace, historically used as the symbol of the medical */
/* profession. In modern times, this symbol has become more */
/* appropriate to the legal profession.... */
/*------------------------------------------------------------------------*/

From [email protected] Mon Apr 5 13:02:13 1993
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id <[email protected]>; Mon, 5 Apr 1993 20:49:41 +0100
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1993 20:41:27 +0200 (BST)
From: Ross Wakelin <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: pine on SVR4 ?
To: "Paul P. Kolk" <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 5 Apr 1993, Paul P. Kolk wrote:

> Hi,
>
> can you tell me if someone has contacted you about having ported pine to
> 386/486 SVR4 unix ?.
>
> I've been trying with Pine3.05, but haven't had much luck. I've tried various
> combinations and eventually compiled without an error.Unfortunately, when I try
> to send mail (I get the question through Pico:"send mail now ?" ) it crashes
> with a segmentation fault and dumps core.
>

It took me abut three days, but we have pine running on two different SVR4
platforms, sparc and intel.

We started with the PTX includes and defines, and hacked on it from there.

There is still a "difference" in how pine treates dates in files, and how
SVR4 likes to think of them. This is fixed in the new imap release (2.3)
which builds very cleanly (just copy the non-ANSI tree to the ANSI tree
and compile with the right compiler switches). Unfortunately, it is not
very high on our priority list to migrate pine 3.05 to the new imap (read:
looks like a lot of work and can't be bothered).

I haven't looked at 3.07 yet, and am not looking forward to migrating my
fixes (read: haven't generated a patch file).

But..... it can be done, with a little effort, and if I ever (hah) get the
time, I will mail the patches to UW

Cheers

Ross Wakelin [email protected]
Open Systems Director or ..mcsun!uknet!uknet!march!rossw
March Systems Consultancy Ltd +44 734 845 399

From [email protected] Mon Apr 5 13:27:07 1993
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Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1993 16:15:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: KaReN <[email protected]>
Reply-To: KaReN <[email protected]>
Subject: unsubscribe
To: [email protected]
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.please! I'm on the MHC distribution list now so I'm getting everything
twice.

Thanks a lot!

Karen

:: ::| : :| ::::| :Karen M. Bourque {Senior Consultant, User Services}
:|:/:| :___:| :| :MOUNT HOLYOKE COLLEGE-South Hadley, Massachusetts-USA
:| :| :::::| :| :[email protected]
:| :| :| :| ::::| :-)

From [email protected] Mon Apr 5 14:28:30 1993
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Message-Id: <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: pine 3.07 bug and paranoia
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 05 Apr 1993 14:25:52 PDT."
<[email protected]>
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1993 14:15:50 -0700
From: "Michael J. Corrigan" <[email protected]>
Status: O
X-Status:

..
On another subject, why is Pine in the business of changing passwords, or
even monkeying with the password part of the getpwent structure at all??!!
I find it disturbing and offensive to discover my encrypted password burie
d
in the .pine-debug file. Being the paranoid individual that I am, I
envision nefarious uses of this information by parties unknown. After all
,
this IS a mail program, so encrypted passwords could be mailed off without

the user's knowledge. I think that pine-central should consider removing
the password manipulations from this fine program.

/* Jeff Earickson, Cray/nCUBE/Sun Consultant|e-mail: [email protected] */
..

I don't agree that the password changing menu item needs to be removed from
pine.

Pine doesn't change passwords or monkey with the password part of
the getpwent structure. It calls the system "/bin/passwd" the same
as you would to change passwords. It is just providing a full-screen
menu - item for changing passwords - as do many full-screen menu
interfaces to Unix.

The password in my .pine-debug file looks like:
Password: *
Since we run shadow passwords on our system the encrypted password is not
kept in /etc/passwd, just an asterik appears in the passwd part of /etc/passwd
Since pine has no special privileges the only way it could get the
encrypted password entry into your .pine-debug file is if the
/etc/passwd file is world-readable.
Therefore, anyone on your system can mail your encrypted password entry off
by mailing /etc/passwd. This is a lot more obvious place to look for
your encrypted password entry than your personal .pine-debug file.
The best solution to this security hole - and it *is* a security hole -
is to install shadow passwords.

-Mike Corrigan

From [email protected] Tue Apr 6 23:48:44 1993
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id <[email protected]>; Wed, 7 Apr 1993 08:38:27 +0200
Subject: Re: Folders
To: [email protected] (Jon 'I'm never home' Gross)
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1993 08:38:25 +0200 (MET DST)
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]> from "Jon 'I'm never home' Gross" at Apr 6, 93 11:22:44 pm
Organisation: UNI-C, Danish Computer Centre for Research and Education
X-Address: Building 305 DTH, DK-2800 Lyngby, Denmark
X-Phone: +45 45 93 83 55
X-Fax: +45 45 93 02 20
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21]
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From: Erik Lawaetz <[email protected]>
Status: O
X-Status:

OK, since Jon didn't get any response I'll try asking the same
question.
When using elm-style-folders PINE (3.05) insists on creating new
folders in the home dir rather than the folder dir.
Anyone got a fix?

--Erik

From [email protected] Wed Apr 7 00:12:20 1993
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Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1993 23:49:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Folders
To: Erik Lawaetz <[email protected]>
Cc: Jon 'I'm never home' Gross <[email protected]>,
[email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
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On Wed, 7 Apr 1993, Erik Lawaetz wrote:

> OK, since Jon didn't get any response I'll try asking the same
> question.
> When using elm-style-folders PINE (3.05) insists on creating new
> folders in the home dir rather than the folder dir.
> Anyone got a fix?

Erik,
Eventually someone will write a Pine FAQ for the pine-info list, and this
will be question #1...

Here's the scoop:

When elm-style-save is enabled, Pine insists on creating new folders in
the home directory whenever a user-specified name is entered because
that's what Elm does. (Only when you enter the magic "=" token does Elm
save to the mail directory. Pine assumes that typing something like "m/"
is not much harder than typing "=", and some folks *like* having
by-subject folders in a different directory, but this has confused a
lot of people so the next version of Pine will do what you expect.)

-teg

From [email protected] Wed Apr 7 03:24:39 1993
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Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1993 10:49:35 +0100 (BST)
From: "Michael J. Sheppard" <[email protected]>
Subject: Global address books
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9304071033.E22412-9100000@brains>
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Hi all,

I can recall a thread of discussion about Global address books in pine a
month or two ago, at the time I did not think it important but my users
are letting me know I was wrong. Was there any resolution of this debate
and does anyone have any patches to implement such an address book?

Thanks in advance,

////| Michael Sheppard E-mail : [email protected]
//// | System Administrator Voice : +44.(0)61.232.9444
////__| GENASYS II Ltd Fax : +44.(0)61.232.9453

From [email protected] Wed Apr 7 12:24:41 1993
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Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1993 11:59:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: "David L. Miller" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Global address books
To: "Michael J. Sheppard" <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9304071033.E22412-9100000@brains>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
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I have submitted patches to UW to allow multiple address books. The changes
were made against a beta version of 4.0, so they may not work on 3.0x without
some work. I also don't know if UW will be including my technique in 4.0...
They may decide to do something completely different (and incompatible).

If you still want the patches, email me and I will send them to you...

*****************************************************************************
David L. Miller Internet: [email protected]
Systems Programmer/Network Analyst BITNET: MILLERD@WSUVM1
Washington State University Tri-Cities UUCP: ...!yoda!dmiller
100 Sprout Road
Richland, WA 99352 Phone: (509)375-9245
*****************************************************************************

On Wed, 7 Apr 1993, Michael J. Sheppard wrote:

>
> Hi all,
>
> I can recall a thread of discussion about Global address books in pine a
> month or two ago, at the time I did not think it important but my users
> are letting me know I was wrong. Was there any resolution of this debate
> and does anyone have any patches to implement such an address book?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> ////| Michael Sheppard E-mail : [email protected]
> //// | System Administrator Voice : +44.(0)61.232.9444
> ////__| GENASYS II Ltd Fax : +44.(0)61.232.9453
>
>
>

From [email protected] Thu Apr 8 10:39:03 1993
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Date: Thu, 8 Apr 93 13:22:10 -0500
From: Chris Maukonen <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: IMSP specs
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Could someone tell me where I could obtain a copy of the IMSP specs. /docs ?

Thanks

Chris

From [email protected] Thu Apr 8 10:45:57 1993
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Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1993 12:25:08 -0600 (GMT-0600)
From: "Kelly Cunningham (Random Deviate)" <[email protected]>
Subject:
To: Pine Info List <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9304081208.A7483-a100000@lipschitz>
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How do you guys keep the NeXT Mailer from robbing /usr/spool/mail/whatever?

I could have cron cat /usr/spool/mail/deviate into a Pine inbox and a NeXT
spool directory. Would links from the ~/Mailboxes/Something.mbox/mbox to a
Pine mail folder work?

Am I over-complicating this? (not uncommon...)

--
Randomly, Kelly Cunningham
<[email protected]><[email protected]><[email protected]>
NeXTMail (favored) MIME (ok) VMS Mail (tolerated) MIME (ok)
"There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in their home."
-- Ken Olson, President and visionary, Digital Equipment, 1977

From [email protected] Thu Apr 8 12:13:55 1993
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Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1993 14:38:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Virtual Dave Lankes <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: your mail
To: "Kelly Cunningham (Random Deviate)" <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Info List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9304081208.A7483-a100000@lipschitz>
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On Thu, 8 Apr 1993, Kelly Cunningham (Random Deviate) wrote:

> How do you guys keep the NeXT Mailer from robbing /usr/spool/mail/whatever?
>
> I could have cron cat /usr/spool/mail/deviate into a Pine inbox and a NeXT
> spool directory. Would links from the ~/Mailboxes/Something.mbox/mbox to a
> Pine mail folder work?
>
> Am I over-complicating this? (not uncommon...)
>
> --
> Randomly, Kelly Cunningham
> <[email protected]><[email protected]><[email protected]>
> NeXTMail (favored) MIME (ok) VMS Mail (tolerated) MIME (ok)
> "There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in their home."
> -- Ken Olson, President and visionary, Digital Equipment, 1977
>
>

We have set up something in just this manner for the AskERIC project. We
use both Pine and NeXTMail at the same time (one from the consol, and one
from a vt100 terminal out of the serial port).

For the inbox we created a hard link from the mbox in the active.mbox
(mailboxes are just directories with special extensions) to a file in the
mail directory where pine keeps its "folders" (we call the linked mbox
NeXTMail to prevent confusion). You can do this with more than one
mbox/folder. Presently we share about 20 different NeXT mailboxes with
Pine, so both archive to the smae file, and the messages are accessable
from both places.

the command from the home directory:
ln Mailbox/<nameOfMailbox>/mbox mail/<nameOfFolder

so to create our NeXTMail directory we:

ln Mailboxes/Active.mbox/mbox mail/NeXTMail

it is that easy.

The only problem we have found, is that when NeXTMail accesses a directory
in use by Pine (i.e., at the same time), Pine freezes UNTIL NeXTMail stops
using that directory (i.e., NeXTMail wins).

This system is great for working the two systems together So you NeXTMail
at work, and Pine at home. It is really easy too (I hope I haven't made
this too confusing or rambling).

Let me know if you have any problems.

........................................
: R.David Lankes (a.k.a."Virtual Dave") :
: Technical Consultant AskERIC Project :
: Coordinator Oliver/AEGIS Project :
: Syracuse University :
: School of Information Studies :
: [email protected] :
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

From [email protected] Thu Apr 8 12:41:37 1993
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Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1993 12:15:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Subject: re: keeping NeXT Mail.app from robbing mail
To: "Kelly Cunningham (Random Deviate)" <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Info List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9304081208.A7483-a100000@lipschitz>
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Kelly -

The strategy most of us use to avoid NeXTmail's behavior is not to use
NeXTmail at all. NeXTmail is, after all, unsupported and doesn't handle MIME,
and (at least in the past) has had security bugs you could drive a truck
through.

You can use something like our mail-dup utility (included below) to have
all copies of your mail go to two different places, and read your Pine mail
from the copy. But that won't keep NeXTmail from stealing the /usr/spool/mail
file on the NeXT; you'd either have to run Pine on some other machine or use a
different inbox path in Pine besides /usr/spool/mail.

-- Mark --

#! /bin/sh
: '
: This filter when used in a .forward file causes mail to be
: forwarded to the BACKUP host if and only if it hasnt already been
: forwarded. If that delivery fails, the failure message comes
: to the owner of the .forward file, not the original sender.
:
: The following line is a sample of the expected .forward file:
: \corey, "|this-filter user@host"
:
: Corey Satten, [email protected] and
: Steve Hubert, [email protected] 89/04/28
: '

PATH=/bin:/usr/ucb:/usr/bin; export PATH
TMP=/usr/tmp/mfil$$
HUMANSTAMP="Received: by Mail Duplicator - Do not forward."
NOFORWARD="X-Status: - - - - - - - - - -"
MAILER=/usr/lib/sendmail
RETURN=75 # (this is EX_TEMPFAIL from /usr/include/sysexits.h)
trap 'rm -f $TMP; exit $RETURN' 0 1 2 13 15

for i in $*; do
case "$1" in
-p) MAILER="cat"; BACKUP=" ";; # don't mail, just format
-s) SUBJFLAG="++";; # flag subject with ++
-h) HOSTNAME=`hostname`;; # put hostname in message
*) BACKUP=${BACKUP-$1};; # backup destination
esac
shift
done
case "$BACKUP" in '')
echo $0: missing argument: user@host 1>&2; exit 1;;
esac

if cat > $TMP ;then : ;else exit ;fi # fail if /tmp full

if sed '/^$/,$d' $TMP|grep -s "^$NOFORWARD" ;then
RETURN=0; exit # never re-forward
fi

sed '
s/^\.$/& /
s/^$Subject:$ $.*$/\1 '$SUBJFLAG'\2'$SUBJFLAG'/
1,/^Received:/ {
/^Received:/i\'"
$HUMANSTAMP\\
$NOFORWARD${HOSTNAME+ ($HOSTNAME)}
}
1 {
/^From /d
}
" $TMP |
$MAILER $BACKUP

case $? in
0) RETURN=0;; # MAILER delivered ok
esac

From [email protected] Thu Apr 8 13:18:54 1993
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Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1993 09:58:49 -1000 (HST)
From: "Lee Ann M. Sakihara" <[email protected]>
Subject: Mac client available?
To: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: (null)
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Is there a Mac client in the works for pine? I understand there's one
for the PC that uses IMAP, does it run under DOS, Windows or both?

Thanks for any information you can provide.

Lee Ann M. Sakihara Internet:[email protected]
University of Hawaii Computing Center Bitnet: [email protected]

From [email protected] Thu Apr 8 15:36:03 1993
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Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1993 15:16:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Mac client available?
To: "Lee Ann M. Sakihara" <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Thu, 8 Apr 1993, Lee Ann M. Sakihara wrote:

> Is there a Mac client in the works for pine? I understand there's one
> for the PC that uses IMAP, does it run under DOS, Windows or both?

Lee Ann,
We are not aware of a Mac version of Pine.

For Mac users, we've been recommending the "Mailstrom" program from
Stanford, which fits into the same IMAP architecture as Pine, and has a
real Mac user interface. (I'm told that the University of North Carolina
is adding MIME support to Mailstrom "as we speak".)

PC-Pine is a DOS application, currently in beta test. It will run under
Windows in the same sense that other DOS apps do.

-teg

p.s. In case anyone is interested in doing it, I can say that, based on
inquiries we've received, several sites would be grateful to have a Mac
version! The underlying C-client code has already been ported to the Mac.

From [email protected] Sun Apr 11 14:17:26 1993
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(5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for [email protected]); Sun, 11 Apr 1993 15:59:51 -0500
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1993 15:57:57 -0400 (CDT)
From: Matt Simmons <[email protected]>
Subject: Suggestion for pine
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
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Make everything cancellable with an [ESC]... So if you accidentally hit f
instead of d, instead of telling it y/n for MIME, cancelling it, etc you
can just hit [esc]...

Adjust the view subcommand of the attachments command so that if the
attachment somebody picks to view happens to be a message or text pine
won't bomb out trying to view it as an image...

zarthac Illinois has two seasons: Winter and Construction
@camelot.bradley.edu It's tax time: Do you know where your money is?
__ __ __ __
There's / \ \ \ / / / \ High Gamma
a pledge / /\ \ \ \_/ / / /\ \ Colony #099
in every / / \ \ \ / / /__\ \ Bradley Univ
class / / \ \ / _ \ / ______ \ Peoria, IL
/ / \ \ / / \ \ / / \ \
/_/ \_\ /_/ \_\ /_/ \_\

From [email protected] Sun Apr 11 14:45:08 1993
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Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1993 14:33:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Suggestion for pine
To: Matt Simmons <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

On Sun, 11 Apr 1993, Matt Simmons wrote:

> Make everything cancellable with an [ESC]... So if you accidentally hit f
> instead of d, instead of telling it y/n for MIME, cancelling it, etc you
> can just hit [esc]...

Matt, this is a terrific idea, but unfortunately we can't do it without
breaking the use of cursor keys, which use ESC as part of the sequence
they emit.

> Adjust the view subcommand of the attachments command so that if the
> attachment somebody picks to view happens to be a message or text pine
> won't bomb out trying to view it as an image...

Absolutely. This is a bug that will be fixed soon.

Thanks for your comments!

-teg

From [email protected] Sun Apr 11 16:19:03 1993
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Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1993 16:07:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Suggestion for pine
To: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

Is CTRL/G (bell) used for anything in Pine now? It's the general EMACS abort,
and if it isn't used for something else it could reasonably be the general
Pine abort as well, couldn't it?

This could be under ``old growth'' mode if necessary...

From [email protected] Sun Apr 11 16:21:18 1993
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Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1993 16:10:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Suggestion for pine
To: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Status: O
X-Status:

Yes, ^G is Get Help.

We will take a look at using ^C more consistently, however.

-teg

On Sun, 11 Apr 1993, Mark Crispin wrote:

> Is CTRL/G (bell) used for anything in Pine now? It's the general EMACS abort,
> and if it isn't used for something else it could reasonably be the general
> Pine abort as well, couldn't it?
>
> This could be under ``old growth'' mode if necessary...
>
>

From [email protected] Sun Apr 11 17:33:14 1993
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Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1993 19:16:52 -0400 (CDT)
From: Matt Simmons <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Suggestion for pine
To: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
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On Sun, 11 Apr 1993, Terry Gray wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Apr 1993, Matt Simmons wrote:
> > Make everything cancellable with an [ESC]... So if you accidentally hit f
> > instead of d, instead of telling it y/n for MIME, cancelling it, etc you
> > can just hit [esc]...
> Matt, this is a terrific idea, but unfortunately we can't do it without
> breaking the use of cursor keys, which use ESC as part of the sequence
> they emit.
How 'bout using ^C instead?

zarthac Illinois has two seasons: Winter and Construction
@camelot.bradley.edu It's tax time: Do you know where your money is?
__ __ __ __
There's / \ \ \ / / / \ High Gamma
a pledge / /\ \ \ \_/ / / /\ \ Colony #099
in every / / \ \ \ / / /__\ \ Bradley Univ
class / / \ \ / _ \ / ______ \ Peoria, IL
/ / \ \ / / \ \ / / \ \
/_/ \_\ /_/ \_\ /_/ \_\

From [email protected] Sun Apr 11 17:39:11 1993
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Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1993 17:26:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Suggestion for pine
To: Matt Simmons <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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> > > Make everything cancellable with an [ESC]... So if you accidentally hit f
> > > instead of d, instead of telling it y/n for MIME, cancelling it, etc you
> > > can just hit [esc]...

> > Matt, this is a terrific idea, but unfortunately we can't do it without
> > breaking the use of cursor keys, which use ESC as part of the sequence
> > they emit.

> How 'bout using ^C instead?

Exactly the plan!

-teg

From [email protected] Sun Apr 11 18:15:27 1993
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id AA03040; Sun, 11 Apr 1993 20:09:06 -0500
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1993 20:07:52 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <[email protected]>
Subject: Stupid questions but . . . .
To: Pine Info <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

In reading over the tech notes and stuff for pine, it seems to imply that
it is somehow able to utilize news.

My question is this: can pine be used to post to news? If so, how. If
not, heh, sorry for bothering y'all :)

[> Robert Hayden ____ <] Black Holes result from God
[> \ /__ <] dividing the universe by zero.
[> [email protected] \/ / <]
[> [email protected] \/ <] # include std_disclaimer.h

From [email protected] Sun Apr 11 18:29:50 1993
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Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1993 18:16:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Stupid questions but . . . .
To: "Robert A. Hayden" <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Info <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
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Robert,
Pine's news reading ability is "work in progress" and needs quite a bit
more work. There is no posting ability yet, but we expect there will be
by the end of summer.

-teg

On Sun, 11 Apr 1993, Robert A. Hayden wrote:

>
> In reading over the tech notes and stuff for pine, it seems to imply that
> it is somehow able to utilize news.
>
> My question is this: can pine be used to post to news? If so, how. If
> not, heh, sorry for bothering y'all :)
>
>
> [> Robert Hayden ____ <] Black Holes result from God
> [> \ /__ <] dividing the universe by zero.
> [> [email protected] \/ / <]
> [> [email protected] \/ <] # include std_disclaimer.h
>
>

From [email protected] Sun Apr 11 19:42:55 1993
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Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1993 19:26:04 -0400 (CDT)
From: Matt Simmons <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Suggestion for pine
To: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Cc: Terry Gray <[email protected]>, [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

On Sun, 11 Apr 1993, Mark Crispin wrote:
> Is CTRL/G (bell) used for anything in Pine now? It's the general EMACS abort,
> and if it isn't used for something else it could reasonably be the general
> Pine abort as well, couldn't it?
> This could be under ``old growth'' mode if necessary...
But wouldn't it make more sense to be consistant, and use Ctrl-C to abort it?

zarthac Illinois has two seasons: Winter and Construction
@camelot.bradley.edu It's tax time: Do you know where your money is?
__ __ __ __
There's / \ \ \ / / / \ High Gamma
a pledge / /\ \ \ \_/ / / /\ \ Colony #099
in every / / \ \ \ / / /__\ \ Bradley Univ
class / / \ \ / _ \ / ______ \ Peoria, IL
/ / \ \ / / \ \ / / \ \
/_/ \_\ /_/ \_\ /_/ \_\

From [email protected] Mon Apr 12 09:31:02 1993
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id AA10718; Mon, 12 Apr 1993 12:19:49 -0400
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1993 12:18:20 -500 (EDT)
From: Paul Ribeiro <[email protected]>
Subject: terminfo/termcap
To: Info Pine <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

Does anyone know how to get pine to look at TERMINFO instead of TERMCAP
on AIX 3.2.3? I'd like to use a vt320 but pine complains that it doesn't
understand it even tho I have a vt320 terminfo file.
thanks,
/P

From [email protected] Mon Apr 12 09:49:30 1993
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Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1993 09:25:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: news and pine
To: "Michael A. Crowley" <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Mon, 12 Apr 1993, Michael A. Crowley wrote:

> Will the pine newsreading capability encorporate threads and
> .newsrc-like history so the user has information about what
> has been previously read? (If you'd like, you can answer
> via info-pine.)

Mike,
The upcoming versions of Pine and PC-Pine have NNTP support so that
you can use a local .newsrc

You can also use IMAP to access the news database, in which case your
newsrc needs to be on the server, so the news server would need to know
about individuals.

Note that there is still quite a bit to be done before we would claim
Pine to be a real newsreader. Things like posting, marking as unread,
catching up, zooming to hide the read messages, threading... are all
missing at the moment.

Threading will be looked at this summer after the rest of those items are
addressed. I'm personally not convinced that the current external
threading files are a good way to go, having seen many problems with them
in our environment. It may be sufficient (and more robust) to locally
sort on Reference number...

-teg

From [email protected] Tue Apr 13 04:24:30 1993
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id <[email protected]>; Tue, 13 Apr 1993 13:14:50 +0200
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1993 13:09:39 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Steinar Haug <[email protected]>
Subject: Pine disallows legal characters in file names
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

When I am composing a message and want to use the ^R command to
read in a file, I expect Pine to let me use all legal characters
in the file name I give. Not so. Pine 3.07 just beeps at me if I
try to use one of the following characters:

!@#$%^&*()`={}[]|\,<?'";:

This is on a Sun, running SunOS 4.1.3.

(My immediate need was for a file name containing '@'...)

Steinar Haug, system/networks administrator
SINTEF RUNIT, University of Trondheim, NORWAY
Email: [email protected], [email protected]

From [email protected] Tue Apr 13 04:27:45 1993
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id <[email protected]>; Tue, 13 Apr 1993 13:20:19 +0200
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1993 13:18:34 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Steinar Haug <[email protected]>
Subject: Wish list: Sort on 'To' field for sent-mail folder
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

When I have the 'sent-mail' folder open, it shows the 'To:'
field of the message by default, which is very sensible. But
it does *not* allow me to *sort* the messages on this field,
which would be very nice...

Steinar Haug, system/networks administrator
SINTEF RUNIT, University of Trondheim, NORWAY
Email: [email protected], [email protected]

From [email protected] Tue Apr 13 12:29:29 1993
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Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1993 14:19:03 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Jeff A. Earickson" <[email protected]>
Reply-To: "Jeff A. Earickson" <[email protected]>
Subject: comments in addressbooks
To: pine-info <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
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X-Status:

Dear Pine,

It sure would be nice if one could put comments in the .addressbook.
I mean, have a way of putting them there thru pine (or with by-hand
editing of .addressbook), and then seeing them when the addresses are
brought up in pine. I would love to store telephone numbers and other
info, ala Rolodex, in my addressbook.

/*------------------------------------------------------------------------*/
/* Jeff Earickson, Cray/nCUBE/Sun Consultant|e-mail: [email protected] */
/* Alabama Supercomputer Network | Work Phone: (205) 348-3969 */
/* Boeing Computer Services | Work Fax: (205) 348-3993 */
/* Address: PO Box 870346, University of Alabama, Tuscaloosa, AL 35487 */
/* Alabama 13-0-0, 1992 National Football Champions. Roll Tide! */
/*------------------------------------------------------------------------*/

From [email protected] Tue Apr 13 14:14:13 1993
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Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1993 13:58:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: "David L. Miller" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: comments in addressbooks
To: "Jeff A. Earickson" <[email protected]>
Cc: pine-info <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

I am starting to work on an extension/generalization to addressbooks that
will take care of this. Basically it will entail an interface to CSO,
WHOIS, X.500, etc. It is a very ambitious project, so it is likely to
take a while though...

*****************************************************************************
David L. Miller Internet: [email protected]
Systems Programmer/Network Analyst BITNET: MILLERD@WSUVM1
Washington State University Tri-Cities UUCP: ...!yoda!dmiller
100 Sprout Road
Richland, WA 99352 Phone: (509)375-9245
*****************************************************************************

On Tue, 13 Apr 1993, Jeff A. Earickson wrote:

> Dear Pine,
>
> It sure would be nice if one could put comments in the .addressbook.
> I mean, have a way of putting them there thru pine (or with by-hand
> editing of .addressbook), and then seeing them when the addresses are
> brought up in pine. I would love to store telephone numbers and other
> info, ala Rolodex, in my addressbook.
>
> /*------------------------------------------------------------------------*/
> /* Jeff Earickson, Cray/nCUBE/Sun Consultant|e-mail: [email protected] */
> /* Alabama Supercomputer Network | Work Phone: (205) 348-3969 */
> /* Boeing Computer Services | Work Fax: (205) 348-3993 */
> /* Address: PO Box 870346, University of Alabama, Tuscaloosa, AL 35487 */
> /* Alabama 13-0-0, 1992 National Football Champions. Roll Tide! */
> /*------------------------------------------------------------------------*/
>
>
>
>

From [email protected] Tue Apr 13 14:33:45 1993
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id AA00305; Tue, 13 Apr 93 17:25:07 EDT
From: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: news and pine
To: [email protected] (Terry Gray)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 93 17:25:06 EDT
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>; from "Terry Gray" at Apr 12, 93 9:25 am
X-Phone: +1 908-604-0866
X-Asset-Tag: 000014257-3425
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Status: O
X-Status:

> Threading will be looked at this summer after the rest of those items are
> addressed. I'm personally not convinced that the current external
> threading files are a good way to go, having seen many problems with them
> in our environment. It may be sufficient (and more robust) to locally
> sort on Reference number...

Let me recommend that you use the NOV library. It will automatically
get the References: information from the nntp server (using the xover
command) and it will even do the algorithm to turn this info into
a tree. In fact, if you use the NOV library and the INN clientlib.o
library, there is very little that you have to add to get a newsreader.
(small understatement)

Tom

--
Tom Limoncelli -- [email protected] (work) -- [email protected] (play)
Disclaimer: I do not speak for Mentor Graphics.
I can't even do the accent.

From [email protected] Wed Apr 14 03:30:50 1993
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id <[email protected]>; Wed, 14 Apr 1993 11:22:49 +0100
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 11:05:06 +0100 (BST)
From: Alan Thew <[email protected]>
Subject: Addition of Reply-To: fields. bug or feature?
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

One thing I miss (compared to elm and MH) in pine is the ability to
add a Reply-To: field to the outgoing mail to ensure that replies are
directed to a different mailbox than that indicated by my From: field.

Have I missed something or is this feature missing?

Thanks

From [email protected] Wed Apr 14 04:34:56 1993
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Wed, 14 Apr 1993 12:18:32 +0100
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 12:18:59 +0100 (BST)
From: Alan Thew <[email protected]>
Subject: pine does not handle source route format correctly
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
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I have an application that uses source route format addresses, e.g.

@gateway:user@host

While this is old and out of date, it is still used by a number of MTAs
and when 'full headers' is set to 'off', the To: field is not shown if the
field is in source route format. Is this by design or is it a bug?

(pine 3.05)

From [email protected] Wed Apr 14 05:44:39 1993
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Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 12:39:53 +0100 (BST)
From: "A. Hilborne" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine disallows legal characters in file names
To: Steinar Haug <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 13 Apr 1993, Steinar Haug wrote:

> When I am composing a message and want to use the ^R command to
> read in a file, I expect Pine to let me use all legal characters
> in the file name I give. Not so. Pine 3.07 just beeps at me if I
> try to use one of the following characters:
>
> !@#$%^&*()`={}[]|\,<?'";:
>
> This is on a Sun, running SunOS 4.1.3.

Yes, this is very annoying. It seems to be a general feature (wait a
moment...) yes, fallowc() seems to be the culprit. Any chance of changing
the okinfname[] map in old_growth? Alternatively 'twould seem more
reasonable under Unix to allow all except control characters and
whitespace in filenames.

Why do I want to do this? I use filenames beginning with "," as
temporaries, an old Unix practice...

--
Andrew M. Hilborne [email protected]
Computing Service Tel: +44 91 222 8226 (direct)
University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK. +44 91 222 8039 (Comp Service office)

From [email protected] Wed Apr 14 06:48:19 1993
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Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 09:34:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine disallows legal characters in file names
To: "A. Hilborne" <[email protected]>
Cc: Steinar Haug <[email protected]>, [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
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Pine "roots" are showing... The original intention was to prevent users
from creating files with names that would cause problems later due to
various UNIX features (e.g. files with '*' or '<' in them).

Seems like a good solution would be to have no restrictions on names when
naming a file for reading, and the current restrictions (perhaps with some
adjustments) for creating files in all but old-growth mode.

LL

On Wed, 14 Apr 1993, A. Hilborne wrote:
>
> On Tue, 13 Apr 1993, Steinar Haug wrote:
>
> > When I am composing a message and want to use the ^R command to
> > read in a file, I expect Pine to let me use all legal characters
> > in the file name I give. Not so. Pine 3.07 just beeps at me if I
> > try to use one of the following characters:
> >
> > !@#$%^&*()`={}[]|\,<?'";:
> >
> > This is on a Sun, running SunOS 4.1.3.
>
> Yes, this is very annoying. It seems to be a general feature (wait a
> moment...) yes, fallowc() seems to be the culprit. Any chance of changing
> the okinfname[] map in old_growth? Alternatively 'twould seem more
> reasonable under Unix to allow all except control characters and
> whitespace in filenames.
>
> Why do I want to do this? I use filenames beginning with "," as
> temporaries, an old Unix practice...
>
> --
> Andrew M. Hilborne [email protected]
> Computing Service Tel: +44 91 222 8226 (direct)
> University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK. +44 91 222 8039 (Comp Service office)
>
>
>

From [email protected] Wed Apr 14 06:50:11 1993
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id <[email protected]>; Wed, 14 Apr 1993 15:41:54 +0200
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 15:40:59 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Steinar Haug <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine disallows legal characters in file names
To: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Cc: "A. Hilborne" <[email protected]>,
Steinar Haug <[email protected]>,
[email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
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> Seems like a good solution would be to have no restrictions on names when
> naming a file for reading, and the current restrictions (perhaps with some
> adjustments) for creating files in all but old-growth mode.

That seems like an eminently sensible solution to me. I would be
very happy if this was implemented.

Steinar Haug, system/networks administrator
SINTEF RUNIT, University of Trondheim, NORWAY
Email: [email protected], [email protected]

From [email protected] Wed Apr 14 12:18:54 1993
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Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 14:02:14 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <[email protected]>
Subject: Concerned about Debug Files
To: Pine Info <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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I do not want to sound accusatory or anything . . . . .

But I've installed pine in my account and found out the sysadmin checked
it out.

Now, I've just gotten a little reamed out because the .pine-debug# files
(I forgot to turn off debugging) has the password field in it. He came
this close to accusing me of trying to crask account or something equally
evil and I was able to calm him by saying that I would look into it.

Well, I'm looking into it. Why is the password field included in the
debug files? (Note, I'm not fully C-literate).

Sorry for the tone of this, I don't mean to sound nasty.

[> Robert Hayden ____ <] Black Holes result from God
[> \ /__ <] dividing the universe by zero.
[> [email protected] \/ / <]
[> [email protected] \/ <] # include std_disclaimer.h

From [email protected] Wed Apr 14 12:30:14 1993
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Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 11:36:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Subject: re: pine does not handle source route format correctly
To: Alan Thew <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
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On Wed, 14 Apr 1993 12:18:59 +0100 (BST), Alan Thew wrote:
> I have an application that uses source route format addresses, e.g.
>
> @gateway:user@host
>
> While this is old and out of date, it is still used by a number of MTAs
> and when 'full headers' is set to 'off', the To: field is not shown if the
> field is in source route format. Is this by design or is it a bug?

I'm a bit confused by this message. Pine *does* parse the old (and obsolete,
as the Host Requirements for Mail abolished it) source route format addresses,
although it doesn't do anything particular with the a-d-l (the ``@gateway:'')
information.

Your message, however, implies that Pine did not parse the address at all,
otherwise something would have shown up. There must have been some syntax
error that caused Pine's parser to reject it. In RFC-822, source routes can
only appear in a bracketed address of the form:
personal name <@gateway1,@gateway2,@gatewayn:user@host>
The Host Requirements for Mail made the personal name optional, so
<@gateway1,@gateway2,@gatewayn:user@host>
is also permitted. Note the presence of the angle brackets, which are
mandatory. Pine permits both formats.

If you believe that your application is using source routes correctly, please
forward me a sample message which exhibits the behavior in Pine.

I question the overall utility of source routes in your application. Many
people were led to believe that source routes would be useful. They aren't.

[Some history] Source routes were put into RFC-822 as a quick and dirty
compromise in the wake of the ``multiple-@'' fiasco as a proposed ``solution''
for the problem. The former mail standard, RFC-733, allowed addresses of the
form
user at host at gateway1 at gateway2 at gatewayn
This address syntax caused a mailer used by many DCA personnel to crash, and
in typical military fashion they decreed that the syntax be abolished rather
than the program be fixed. Since they ran the net back then, they got what
they wanted... As an emergency patch, I changed all but the final ``at'' to
``%'' to work around the DCA restriction. [Yes, I'm the fellow to blame for
the infamous ``% hack''.] Source routes were supposed to abolish the ``%
hack'', but a subsequent DCA restriction required that the string to the right
of the @ had to be in the host table (later, the DNS), which crippled source
routes and made them useless. Consequently many mailers never bothered to
implement them.

I've noticed that more than one site in foreign countries, who couldn't care
in the slightest what DCA wanted (lucky!), implemented (and use) source routes
for more or less the original intended purpose. However, if you do so, you
end up running up against problems when interoperating outside of your local
environment. As a practical matter, you can't trust it to work, and because
of their abolition by the Host Requirements for Mail you can't make anyone
else fix their mailer to use them. It's ultimately a lot less effort to get
the appropriate MX glue into the DNS, or at worst use the %-hack.

Please let me know if I can assist you in any way in figuring out what the
problem is. Pine does support the source route syntax to the point of parsing
it, even if it doesn't do anything in particular with the data.

-- Mark --

From [email protected] Wed Apr 14 14:39:09 1993
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Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 12:44:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Subject: re: Concerned about Debug Files
To: "Robert A. Hayden" <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Info <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
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The only ``password field'' that appears in the .pine-debug# files is your own
password, in encrypted form. Presumably, you already know what your own
password is.

Pine uses this to support the terminal locking functionality; there is a
command to lock your terminal that will not unlock it until you type your
password. Pine does not (can not) know what your password is, but it can
compare the encrypted form of what you enter with the encrypted form of your
password, and assume that if they match that you gave the correct password.

Pine would not be able to access your encrypted password if it was not in the
/etc/passwd file for the world to see.

I believe that your system administrator is over-reacting.

But, this isn't the first time something like this has come up. I suggest
that it should be removed from the debugging telemetry in the name of not
triggering any more unpleasant experiences.

From [email protected] Wed Apr 14 15:05:13 1993
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From: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Concerned about Debug Files
To: [email protected] (Pine Info)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 17:55:07 -0400 (EDT)
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]> from "Mark Crispin" at Apr 14, 93 12:44:41 pm
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Mark Crispin writes:
> Pine does not (can not) know what your password is, but it can
> compare the encrypted form of what you enter with the encrypted form
> of your password

Unless I'm missing something; this doesn't seem to be too
useful, as the number of sites that actually store encrypted passwords
in /etc/passwd is getting smaller and smaller. What if a shadow
passwd file is being used? Or MIT/AFS Kerberos? Can pine handle
this?

Besides, is it really pine's business to be worrying about
locking the screen? There are other program to do this (xlock, etc.)

Regards,

James

--
James Ralston Crawford \ Assistant Supervisor \ Advanced Technology Lab
[email protected] \ [email protected] \ [email protected]
"Computer, you and I need to have a little talk." - O'Brien, ST:DS9

From [email protected] Wed Apr 14 15:52:47 1993
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Date: Wed, 14 Apr 93 15:43:59 -0700
From: Jason Fosback <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.87.1)
Received: by NeXT Mailer (1.87.1)
To: [email protected] (Pine Info)
Subject: Re: Concerned about Debug Files
Status: O
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> Unless I'm missing something; this doesn't seem to be too
> useful, as the number of sites that actually store encrypted passwords
> in /etc/passwd is getting smaller and smaller. What if a shadow
> passwd file is being used? Or MIT/AFS Kerberos? Can pine handle
> this?
>

Pine is not *actually* using the /etc/password file; I believe they must
be using something like getpwent(), getpwuid(), or getpwnam().
Regardless of the system your OS is using, these functions are able to
access the "hidden" information in the alternative database.

Besides, even on these alternative systems (e.g., NetInfo for NeXT), the
password information is still accessible by everyone, you just need to
know how and where to look :) .

> Besides, is it really pine's business to be worrying about
> locking the screen? There are other program to do this (xlock, etc.)
>

Yes, it is. We have a terminal room full of "dumb" terminals here at the
University of Oregon, and it's an invaluable tool for users that want to
lock their terminal momentarily.

I have to agree with Mark Crispin's comment about the System
Administrator's reaction. The encrypted password is still available to
the user; one just needs to know where to look (see above). In fact,
_everyone's_ encrypted password is available to a user that has
permission to be on the system.

-jason
_________________________________________________________________
Jason Fosback, User Support Analyst | No sir, I didn't like it
---- University of Oregon ---- | -R&S
Internet: [email protected] | Star Trek:
NeXT mail: [email protected] | The NeXT Generation...

From [email protected] Wed Apr 14 15:55:51 1993
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Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 17:47:55 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Concerned about Debug Files
To: Pine Info <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Wed, 14 Apr 1993 [email protected] wrote:

> Besides, is it really pine's business to be worrying about
> locking the screen? There are other program to do this (xlock, etc.)

I apologize for bringing up a touchy subject.

In any case, what if instead of using the login password, it instead, when
you invoke the lock, asks for a password, varifies, and then locks, using
that entered password to get back in, completely ignoring /etc/passwd.

It achieves the same purpose, but, if anything, makes people feel "safer".

[> Robert Hayden ____ <] Black Holes result from God
[> \ /__ <] dividing the universe by zero.
[> [email protected] \/ / <]
[> [email protected] \/ <] # include std_disclaimer.h

From [email protected] Wed Apr 14 16:05:59 1993
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Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 08:58:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: "David L. Miller" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Concerned about Debug Files
To: [email protected]
Cc: Pine Info <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

On Wed, 14 Apr 1993 [email protected] wrote:

> Mark Crispin writes:
> > Pine does not (can not) know what your password is, but it can
> > compare the encrypted form of what you enter with the encrypted form
> > of your password
>
> Unless I'm missing something; this doesn't seem to be too
> useful, as the number of sites that actually store encrypted passwords
> in /etc/passwd is getting smaller and smaller. What if a shadow
> passwd file is being used? Or MIT/AFS Kerberos? Can pine handle
> this?
>
> Besides, is it really pine's business to be worrying about
> locking the screen? There are other program to do this (xlock, etc.)
>
As I understand it, the original design of pine was geared toward the
environment at UW, where they still have alot of dumb terminals. Although
terminal locking might not be so important for the rest of us, it makes
sense at UW.

I do agree that there are some things like the passwd entry that should be
boosted to a higher debug level. It may still be valuable for problem
tracking, so I would not eliminate it entirely...

*****************************************************************************
David L. Miller Internet: [email protected]
Systems Programmer/Network Analyst BITNET: MILLERD@WSUVM1
Washington State University Tri-Cities UUCP: ...!yoda!dmiller
100 Sprout Road
Richland, WA 99352 Phone: (509)375-9245
*****************************************************************************

From [email protected] Wed Apr 14 19:06:48 1993
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Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 21:54:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Concerned about Debug Files
To: [email protected]
Cc: Pine Info <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

The reason Pine has the lock command, the change password command, and a
few others is so that naive users don't have to learn UNIX to do these
things.

This was all fine and dandy when there were no shadow password files.
The current code works.

For sites with protected password files there are two choices. You can
either prompt for a lock password which the user has to repeat to unlock
the screen, or make Pine run in priviledged mode so it has access to the
real password file (A shadow password file doesn't add much unless it
requires privilege to get to the real password file). That is Pine would
have to run setuid root.

Last I knew the planned solution was the first one mentioned. Until that
gets implemented lock is broken on machines with shadow password files.

This would be a really easy thing to implement if someone was up for a
little hacking....

LL

On Wed, 14 Apr 1993 [email protected] wrote:

> Mark Crispin writes:
> > Pine does not (can not) know what your password is, but it can
> > compare the encrypted form of what you enter with the encrypted form
> > of your password
>
> Unless I'm missing something; this doesn't seem to be too
> useful, as the number of sites that actually store encrypted passwords
> in /etc/passwd is getting smaller and smaller. What if a shadow
> passwd file is being used? Or MIT/AFS Kerberos? Can pine handle
> this?
>
> Besides, is it really pine's business to be worrying about
> locking the screen? There are other program to do this (xlock, etc.)
>
> Regards,
>
> James
>
> --
> James Ralston Crawford \ Assistant Supervisor \ Advanced Technology Lab
> [email protected] \ [email protected] \ [email protected]
> "Computer, you and I need to have a little talk." - O'Brien, ST:DS9

From [email protected] Thu Apr 15 01:54:28 1993
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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1993 16:16:54 +0800 (TST)
From: Ed Greshko <[email protected]>
Subject: Pine 3.07 .pinerc question....
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <Pine.3.07.9304151654.C21072-b100000@cosmo>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
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Hello,

I've just compiled and started using pine on a MIPS platform. Most
everything appears to be working just fine. However, it appears that I
am having some troubles with my .pinerc file.

When I run pine -conf parts of it show:

# Sub directory in users home directory where mail folders/files are kept
mail-directory=

# Allow composition of MIME message (attachments) when this is set to "yes"
compose-mime=

# Character set used by your terminal e.g. US-ASCII, ISO-8859-1, ISO-8859-4
character-set=

But, after editing the file and running pine the file is changed
to something like this:

# Sub directory in users home directory where mail folders/files are kept
mail-directory=mail

# Allow composition of MIME message (attachments) when this is set to "yes"

# Character set used by your terminal e.g. US-ASCII, ISO-8859-1, ISO-8859-4
character-set=US-ASCII

So, what happed to the line to define MIME??? Other lines are missing
and other lines have been added. For example, the line:

# Your full name
personal-name=

was added.

Can someone clue me in?

Also, I've just joined this list so maybe it is wise to email
directly to me.

Thanks

Edward M. Greshko Control Data Taiwan
Voice: +886-2-715-2222 x287 6/F, 131 Nanking East Road, Section 3
FAX : +886-2-712-9197 Taipei, Taiwan R.O.C

From [email protected] Thu Apr 15 06:12:15 1993
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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1993 08:20:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine 3.07 .pinerc question....
To: Ed Greshko <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.07.9304151654.C21072-b100000@cosmo>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

Hello,

This is probably another one for an FAQ. The -conf option is only for
setting up the system pine config file /usr/local/lib/pine.conf. It has
different variables in it than your personal .pinerc. You don't need to
worry about this for your .pinerc. Pine puts all the variables in it that
it understands (and removes the ones it doesn't).

LL

On Thu, 15 Apr 1993, Ed Greshko wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I've just compiled and started using pine on a MIPS platform. Most
> everything appears to be working just fine. However, it appears that I
> am having some troubles with my .pinerc file.
>
> When I run pine -conf parts of it show:
>
> # Sub directory in users home directory where mail folders/files are kept
> mail-directory=
>
> # Allow composition of MIME message (attachments) when this is set to "yes"
> compose-mime=
>
> # Character set used by your terminal e.g. US-ASCII, ISO-8859-1, ISO-8859-4
> character-set=
>
> But, after editing the file and running pine the file is changed
> to something like this:
>
> # Sub directory in users home directory where mail folders/files are kept
> mail-directory=mail
>
> # Allow composition of MIME message (attachments) when this is set to "yes"
>
> # Character set used by your terminal e.g. US-ASCII, ISO-8859-1, ISO-8859-4
> character-set=US-ASCII
>
> So, what happed to the line to define MIME??? Other lines are missing
> and other lines have been added. For example, the line:
>
> # Your full name
> personal-name=
>
> was added.
>
> Can someone clue me in?
>
> Also, I've just joined this list so maybe it is wise to email
> directly to me.
>
> Thanks
>
> Edward M. Greshko Control Data Taiwan
> Voice: +886-2-715-2222 x287 6/F, 131 Nanking East Road, Section 3
> FAX : +886-2-712-9197 Taipei, Taiwan R.O.C
>

From [email protected] Thu Apr 15 09:45:31 1993
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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 93 19:34:41 +0300
From: Hannu Martikka <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Crypted passwd in pine-debug file ?
Mailer: VM 5.31 (beta) / GNU Emacs 18.58.4
Reply-To: Hannu Martikka <[email protected]>
Organization: Lappeenranta University of Technology, Finland
Status: O
X-Status:

Hi!

Can pine handle NIS passwords? I think it cannot...
IMHO mailers should not change passwords. They should handle mail.
I've got nothing against keyboard locking feature in pine. Some people
like it...
But why does pine haveto copy crypted passwd from /etc/passwd and put
it in some debug-file?
If pine can read crypted passwd then there is no reason (?) to copy
it to another file. Pine can always reread it or keep it in memory.

If I lock keyboard and then change passwd, pine doesn't notice it.
If pine would get cryped passwd with getpwent (or equiv.) every time
someone tries to unlock keyboard, then it should accept new passwd
insted of old.
--
Regards from Goodi
______________________________________________________________________________
Internet: [email protected] / \
Bitnet : GOODGULF@FINFILES // \\ \-\-\-\-\-\-\ oh5lhh
Hannu Martikka,Skinnarilankatu /// \\\ | on 70cm
28 F17, 53850 Lappeenranta,SF /// | \\\_____________|________________________
Tel. +358-(9)53-251446 | :) Lappeenranta University Of Technology |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From [email protected] Thu Apr 15 10:33:42 1993
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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1993 12:21:24 -0500
From: "David E. Martin" <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Pine 3.07 Bug
Status: O
X-Status:

One of our users has been getting

Bug in Pine detected. Program aborted.

Unfortunately, a pine-debug is not created. This does not happen every
time for him, nor can I duplicate it myself. Any ideas?

David E. Martin
National HEPnet Management || Phone: +1 708 840-8275
Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory || FAX: +1 708 840-8463
P.O. Box 500, MS 368; Batavia, IL 60510 USA / \ E-Mail: [email protected]

From [email protected] Thu Apr 15 19:55:41 1993
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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1993 22:33:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Crypted passwd in pine-debug file ?
To: Hannu Martikka <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

Greetings!

On Thu, 15 Apr 1993, Hannu Martikka wrote:

> Can pine handle NIS passwords? I think it cannot...
> IMHO mailers should not change passwords. They should handle mail.

Pine just runs the "passwd" command so if you have "yppasswd" (or whatever
it's called now) linked to "passwd" then Pine can handle NIS passwords.
You're right, it probably shouldn't mess around with the password file
itself. That would require it to run setuid root and such. The way it
works now avoids the problem.

> I've got nothing against keyboard locking feature in pine. Some people
> like it...
> But why does pine haveto copy crypted passwd from /etc/passwd and put
> it in some debug-file?
> If pine can read crypted passwd then there is no reason (?) to copy
> it to another file. Pine can always reread it or keep it in memory.

Right again, Pine does keep it in the memory and nothing more. The stuff
in the debug file is just that, debugging and is not used by Pine at all.
You can turn this by removing the -DDEBUG from the makefile and
recompiling. Also, I suspect that the next release won't put the password
in the debug file no matter what level of debugging you run at (based on
the concern it's caused).

> If I lock keyboard and then change passwd, pine doesn't notice it.
> If pine would get cryped passwd with getpwent (or equiv.) every time
> someone tries to unlock keyboard, then it should accept new passwd
> insted of old.

Yup, that's a bug. It was on the last bug list I saw.

LL

From [email protected] Fri Apr 16 03:57:10 1993
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Fri, 16 Apr 1993 10:24:57 +0100
From: Tim Brooks <[email protected]>
To: [email protected], [email protected]
Subject: ECSMail (?)
Reply-To: [email protected]
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1993 10:24:53 +0100
Message-Id: <"ppsw1.cam..587:16.03.93.09.25.10"@ppsw.cam.ac.uk>
Status: O
X-Status:

I've heard a rumour of a PC Windows Mail Client based on the c-client
libraries. Called ECSMail? Can anyone confirm/deny this and tell me
if/where it is available.

Many thanks,

Tim Brooks
Mail-Support(@UK.AC.Cam.UCS, @UCS.Cam.AC.UK)

University of Cambridge Computing Service Tel: 0223-334709, Int: +44 223 334709
New Museums Site Fax: 0223-334678, Int: +44 223 334678
Pembroke Street Telex: 81240 CAMSPL G
CAMBRIDGE E-Mail(JNT): [email protected]
CB2 3QG United Kingdom "(Internet): [email protected]
X.400: /I=T/S=Brooks/OU=Computing-Service/O=Cambridge/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/

From [email protected] Sat Apr 17 07:46:25 1993
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Sat, 17 Apr 1993 15:26:44 +0100
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1993 15:19:27 +0100 (BST)
From: Alan Thew <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: ECSMail (?)
To: Tim Brooks <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected], [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <"ppsw1.cam..587:16.03.93.09.25.10"@ppsw.cam.ac.uk>
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--587219625-594766692-735056802:#19319
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Fri, 16 Apr 1993, Tim Brooks wrote:

> I've heard a rumour of a PC Windows Mail Client based on the c-client
> libraries. Called ECSMail? Can anyone confirm/deny this and tell me
> if/where it is available.
>
The software exists and I enclose the original announcement which was
mailed to the pine-info list. I've not tried it yet but have all the
components.

Note that the software now resides in the directory

/pub/windows/utilities

I'd be grateful if anyone who's tried this would share their experiences.

Alan Thew

--587219625-594766692-735056802:#19319
Content-Type: APPLICATION/octet-stream; name="ANNOUNCE.TXT"
Content-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Description:

ISA has developed a new Mail User Agent (MUA) for processing electronic
mail on networks. It is named "ECSMail".

ECSMail can function as both a "remote" MUA and a "local" MUA. While
functioning in remote mode, it will access a remote message store using
standards based mail access protocols. In local mode, it will access
a local message store using system dependent message store access
routines.

ECSMail is has been designed and implemented to be as independent as
possible from operating system, display, and network protocols. We have
achieved this by building driver libraries for the OS and displays, and
using Mark Crispin's c-client drivers for message store access (both
local and remote message stores).

Using this strategy, we are planning to support the following operating
systems, display, and mail protocol combinations:

OS - Unix, DOS, OS/2 v2, MacOS, NT
Displays - X11 (R4, R5, Openlook, Motif), MS Windows v3, Presentation
Manager, Mac Finder
MAP Protocols - IMAP2, P7, PP7
MTP Protocols - SMTP, P1

It is our full intention to make this run on as many platforms, with as
many different mail application protocols as possible.

With ECSMail we plan to provide many interesting features, such as:

* Multi-part, multimedia mail messages:

- supporting both MIME and X.400 message formats

- files (e.g. binaries, images, text, voice, application) can be
attached and sent along with the message.

- the different parts of the messsage can be extracted
and displayed (using the necessary application) to the user.

* Multiple simultaneous folder access and management (drag and drop
messages or blocks of messages between folders).

* Hierarchical folder structures.

* Virtual folders within folders. Messages can be grouped using any
combination of message header criteria into a virtual folder.
Messages in a virtual folder can be listed and manipulated as
a single object. This supports threading of messages within
folders.

* Integration of multicast (mail) and broadcast (NEWS, BBS) message
stores via into a single interface. NEWS groups appear as a list of
folders and threading of broadcast messages will be supported.

* Privancy Enhanced Mail (PEM). Support encryption of message parts,
digital signatures, and digital timestamps.

* Forms mail. Messages can be composed inside of a forms interface
as a special message part. It will include form design and
display tools.

* Draft message support. Users will be able to create and store
standard draft messages, and select draft messages from both public
and private draft message stores.

* Integration with "mail enabled applications".

* Personal configuration files.

* Asynchronous new mail notification.

* Personal address book lookup and management. Addresses can be loaded
manually, copied from incoming mail, or copied from an X.500 DUA
(see next).

* Integration with X.500 Directory Services. The user can query local
and network-wide address information while composing messages.
Addresses can be copied from the Directory User Agent to the user's
local address book. This facility will be optionally available for
those who have the X.500 Directory Service capability.

What Is Available Now
---------------------

A BETA demonstration version of the Microsoft Windows version of ECSMail is
available via anonymous ftp from

ftp.srv.ualberta.ca

in the directory

/pub/networking/win/mail/ecs.tar.Z

This version of ECSMail only supports the TCP/IP based mail access and
transport protocols (IMAP2, SMTP), and can deliver MIME format messages.
It provides what we term "basic functionality" - it does the things that
most mailers do. Features such as the virtual folders, and NEWS
message sources have not been implemented at this time.

We encourage you to get the software and try it out. This version of
ecs is released for demonstration purposes only - IT IS NOT CURRENTLY IN
THE PUBLIC DOMAIN. As I have mentioned earlier, we are not currently
charging for the product, and are in the process of evaluating different
forms of funding for the software.

There are some restrictions on what you can do with the software at this
time. The mailer is designed to support several different TCP/IP
stacks through the use of Windows DLLs. Currently we support the
following TCP/IP stacks:

* Beame and Whiteside - BWTCP 2.x
* Sun Microsystems - PCNFS 4.x
* DEC Pathworks v

We are currently working on providing:

* Microsoft WinSock DLL compliance
* FTP Software - PCTCP 2.04

If you are interested in supporting another TCP/IP stack, then provide
us with a copy of the stack and development kit - it must have a sockets
API - and we'll try to provide a DLL interface for it.

How will we fund ECSMail?
-------------------------

There are two funding methods for ECSMail - maintenance contracts and
development contracts.

Maintenance contracts are signed with organizations that want support
and software maintenance on the ECSMail software. This will include
free software upgrades and immediate response to software problems.

The cost of the maintenance is designed to be far less than
purchase->upgrade cost of conventional shrinkwrapped software. The cost
is based on the number of installations that are in place. The
organization will never be charged more than an agreed upon maximum. As
the number of installations increases, the per seat cost decreases such
that maximum is never exceeded. An organization can install as many
copies of ECSMail as they like.

Development contracts are signed to produce new functionality in the
ECSMail product. ISA has identified a number of potential
functionality improvements that it would like to make to ECSMail.
We also believe that clients will have a number of features that they
would like to see added to the product.

The cost of the contract is determined by the amount of work required to
complete the development, and the number of organizations contributing
to the development. The more organizations that contribute, the lower
the cost. ISA publishes a detailed list of feature development
projects that it plans to run in the ecs-info mailing list (see below).

Mailing lists
-------------

There is an ecs mailing list. To join the mailing list send a message
to

[email protected]

To submit messages to the mailing list, send mail to

[email protected]

If there are problems with the list, then send mail to

[email protected]

--587219625-594766692-735056802:#19319--

From [email protected] Sun Apr 18 17:11:47 1993
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Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1993 18:58:17 -0500 (CDT)
From: Matt Simmons <[email protected]>
Subject: subscription
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

Sorry for sending this to everybody, but I've forgotten how to subscribe
to the list. Could you transfer my [email protected]
subscription to [email protected]? Thanks...

[email protected] Illinois has two seasons: Winter and Construction
___________ _______________________________________^__
___ ___ ||| ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ | __ ,----\ High Gamma
| | | |||| | | | | | | | | | | | | |_____\ Lambda
|___| |___|||| |___| |___| |___| | O | O | | | | \ Chi Alpha
||| |___|___| | |__| ) Colony #099
___________|||______________________________|______________/ Bradley Univ
||| WDW Monorail Driver Wannabe /-------- Peoria IL
-----------'''---------------------------------------'

From [email protected] Sun Apr 18 21:03:37 1993
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Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1993 20:48:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine 3.07 Bug
To: "David E. Martin" <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

David,
Would it be possible for him to turn on full debugging? Or is that part
of the problem?

-teg

On Thu, 15 Apr 1993, David E. Martin wrote:

>
> One of our users has been getting
>
> Bug in Pine detected. Program aborted.
>
> Unfortunately, a pine-debug is not created. This does not happen every
> time for him, nor can I duplicate it myself. Any ideas?
>
> David E. Martin
> National HEPnet Management || Phone: +1 708 840-8275
> Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory || FAX: +1 708 840-8463
> P.O. Box 500, MS 368; Batavia, IL 60510 USA / \ E-Mail: [email protected]
>

From [email protected] Mon Apr 19 08:59:35 1993
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Date: Mon, 19 Apr 93 11:08:56 EDT
From: Jim Ennis <[email protected]>
Organization: University of Central Florida - Computer Services
Subject: pico problem
To: Pine Info List <[email protected]>
Status: O
X-Status:

Hello,

Does anyone know if Pico will work with vt220 terminals? I am using
QVTNET to connect to my UNIX system as a vt220 terminal but Pico says
that it is not a supported terminal type.The real message is:

Unknown terminal type vt220!

Jim

From [email protected] Mon Apr 19 10:01:32 1993
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Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1993 10:47:05 -0600 (CST)
From: Earl Fogel <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: pico problem
To: Jim Ennis <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Info List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Mon, 19 Apr 1993, Jim Ennis wrote:

> Does anyone know if Pico will work with vt220 terminals? I am using
> QVTNET to connect to my UNIX system as a vt220 terminal but Pico says
> that it is not a supported terminal type.The real message is:
>
> Unknown terminal type vt220!

Try typing "set term=vt200" before running Pico.

If your system is like ours, (Ultrix 4.3), vt200 is the generic
name for all vt200 series terminals.

--
Earl Fogel Computing Services
[email protected] University of Saskatchewan

From [email protected] Mon Apr 19 10:03:01 1993
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From: David A Rasmussen <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: pico problem
To: [email protected] (Jim Ennis)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 93 11:51:56 CDT
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>; from "Jim Ennis" at Apr 19, 93 11:08 am
Word-Of-The-Day: neuroanotomy
Status: O
X-Status:

>From [email protected] Mon Apr 19 11:45:50 1993
>From: Jim Ennis <[email protected]>
>Organization: University of Central Florida - Computer Services
>Subject: pico problem
>To: Pine Info List <[email protected]>
>
> Does anyone know if Pico will work with vt220 terminals? I am using
>QVTNET to connect to my UNIX system as a vt220 terminal but Pico says
>that it is not a supported terminal type.The real message is:
>
>Unknown terminal type vt220!
>
well, vt220's are backward compatible with vt100's so my guess would be
to tell your system you're using a vt100.

--
Dave Rasmussen - SysAdm/Hacker/Consulting Supervisor, UWM Computing Svcs Div.
Internet:[email protected], Uucp:uwm!dave, Bitnet:dave%uwm.edu@INTERBIT
AT&T:414-229-5133 USmail:Box 413 EMS380,Milwaukee,WI 53201 HAM: N9REJ

From [email protected] Mon Apr 19 10:28:46 1993
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Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1993 10:18:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: "David L. Miller" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: pico problem
To: Jim Ennis <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Info List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Status: O
X-Status:

Some systems (even DEC) don't have a termcap entry for vt220. Try
changing your TERM environment variable to vt200 or vt100.

*****************************************************************************
David L. Miller Internet: [email protected]
Systems Programmer/Network Analyst BITNET: MILLERD@WSUVM1
Washington State University Tri-Cities UUCP: ...!yoda!dmiller
100 Sprout Road
Richland, WA 99352 Phone: (509)375-9245
*****************************************************************************

On Mon, 19 Apr 1993, Jim Ennis wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Does anyone know if Pico will work with vt220 terminals? I am using
> QVTNET to connect to my UNIX system as a vt220 terminal but Pico says
> that it is not a supported terminal type.The real message is:
>
> Unknown terminal type vt220!
>
> Jim

From [email protected] Mon Apr 19 11:09:09 1993
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Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1993 13:39:17 -500 (EDT)
From: Paul Ribeiro <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: pico problem
To: Jim Ennis <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Info List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

On Mon, 19 Apr 1993, Jim Ennis wrote:
> Does anyone know if Pico will work with vt220 terminals? I am using
you didn't say what type of sys you were on, but for me to get it to
work on aix 3.2.3 I had to re-compile it with -lcurses instead of
-ltermcap Setting your terminal to vt100 is no good since you loose
the "extras" you'd normally have with a vt220 (for other applications
that is....)
/P

From [email protected] Mon Apr 19 22:09:33 1993
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Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1993 23:58:39 -0500 (CDT)
From: Matt Simmons <[email protected]>
Subject: ansiprt.c
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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X-Status:

Why doesn't ansiprt.c compile on a SVR4 system?

The error has something to do with /usr/include/sys/file.h

[email protected] Illinois has two seasons: Winter and Construction
___________ _______________________________________^___
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| | | |||| | | | | | | | | | | | | |_____\ Lambda
|___| |___|||| |___| |___| |___| | O | O | | | | \ Chi Alpha
||| |___|___| | |__| ) Colony #099
___________|||______________________________|______________/ Bradley Univ
||| WDW Monorail Driver Wannabe /-------- Peoria IL
-----------'''---------------------------------------'

From [email protected] Tue Apr 20 03:55:20 1993
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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 93 12:43:28 +0200
From: [email protected] (Reiner Ludwig)
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
To: [email protected], [email protected]
Subject: Information on PINE
Status: O
X-Status:

Dear Ladies and Gentlemen,

I'm student at RWTH Aachen in Germany and in the work on my diploma thesis I'm
concerned with designing and implementing a prototyp of a hypermedia mailer.
At the moment I'm defining user requirements for multimedia/hypermedia-mail
based on MIME and X.400.

I heard that the PINE Mail System also deals with multimedia mail so I wonder
if you could send me any useful material that would help me with defining the
user requirements for my work.

Of course I would also be very grateful for any material describing the PINE
Mail System. I could than include a description of PINE in the introduction of
my diploma thesis where I give a survey of the state of the art concerning
multimedia/hypermedia-mail.

Regards,

Reiner Ludwig

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reiner Ludwig e-mail: [email protected]
(research department)
Ericsson Eurolab GmbH
Ericsson Allee 1
W-5120 Herzogenrath 3 (the zip code changes to 52134 on 1 Juli '93)
Germany

From [email protected] Tue Apr 20 09:49:31 1993
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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1993 12:31:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Randall Reynolds <[email protected]>
Subject: Missing return email address with ccMail to Pine on Ultrix
To: PINE <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9304201223.A9299-b100000@mickey>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

We are tring to setup a gateway with smtp. We can get mail in pine but the
from address is missing. We are on Ultrix 4.2. We do not have a problem
with pine with anyother internet mail. Are there options in ccMail to
address it differently? I also do not have the problem with elm or the
standard ultrix mailer.
Any help would be greatly apprecited.

______________________________________________________________________
Randall Reynolds E-mail [email protected]
Director of Information Systems Work: 401-454-6392
Rhode Island School of Design Fax: 401-454-6320
2 College Street
Providence, Rhode Island 02903

WE ARE NOTHING MORE THAN TRUCK DRIVERS:
The Vehicle has changed ..... It is a micro computer not an 18 Wheeler,
The Highway has changed ..... It is Fiber Optic not Black Top,
The Cargo has changed ..... It is Data Packets not Boxes,
The Concept, Delivering Goods and Services, Remains Constant!
______________________________________________________________________

From [email protected] Tue Apr 20 10:45:22 1993
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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1993 10:32:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Debra Crowe <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Missing return email address with ccMail to Pine on Ultrix
To: Randall Reynolds <[email protected]>
Cc: PINE <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9304201223.A9299-b100000@mickey>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

Randall, I think your problem is with cc:Mail's implementation of the smtp
gateway not Pine.. We have that problem here at OSU and are anxiously awaiting
the next release of cc:Mail's smtp g/w to hopefully solve this problem.

Debra Crowe Email: [email protected]
University Computing Services Phone: (503)737-2998
Oregon State University
Corvallis, OR 97331

On Tue, 20 Apr 1993, Randall Reynolds wrote:

> We are tring to setup a gateway with smtp. We can get mail in pine but the
> from address is missing. We are on Ultrix 4.2. We do not have a problem
> with pine with anyother internet mail. Are there options in ccMail to
> address it differently? I also do not have the problem with elm or the
> standard ultrix mailer.
> Any help would be greatly apprecited.
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> Randall Reynolds E-mail [email protected]
> Director of Information Systems Work: 401-454-6392
> Rhode Island School of Design Fax: 401-454-6320
> 2 College Street
> Providence, Rhode Island 02903
>
> WE ARE NOTHING MORE THAN TRUCK DRIVERS:
> The Vehicle has changed ..... It is a micro computer not an 18 Wheeler,
> The Highway has changed ..... It is Fiber Optic not Black Top,
> The Cargo has changed ..... It is Data Packets not Boxes,
> The Concept, Delivering Goods and Services, Remains Constant!
> ______________________________________________________________________
>
>
>

From [email protected] Tue Apr 20 12:16:52 1993
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id AA11456; Tue, 20 Apr 93 15:10:33 -0400
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1993 15:08:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: Randall Reynolds <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Missing return email address with ccMail to Pine on Ultrix
To: Debra Crowe <[email protected]>
Cc: PINE <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9304201521.A11096-b100000@mickey>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

We were able with some help from our Novell support vendor - able to solve
this problem. You need to change the options in ccMail smtp (1.3) to
include the mail header. This is changed in the configuration screen for
smtp. Let me know if you need our setup.
______________________________________________________________________

On Tue, 20 Apr 1993, Debra Crowe wrote:

> Randall, I think your problem is with cc:Mail's implementation of the smtp
> gateway not Pine.. We have that problem here at OSU and are anxiously awaiting
> the next release of cc:Mail's smtp g/w to hopefully solve this problem.
>
> Debra Crowe Email: [email protected]
> University Computing Services Phone: (503)737-2998
> Oregon State University
> Corvallis, OR 97331
>
>
> On Tue, 20 Apr 1993, Randall Reynolds wrote:
>
> > We are tring to setup a gateway with smtp. We can get mail in pine but the
> > from address is missing. We are on Ultrix 4.2. We do not have a problem
> > with pine with anyother internet mail. Are there options in ccMail to
> > address it differently? I also do not have the problem with elm or the
> > standard ultrix mailer.
> > Any help would be greatly apprecited.
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> > Randall Reynolds E-mail [email protected]
> > Director of Information Systems Work: 401-454-6392
> > Rhode Island School of Design Fax: 401-454-6320
> > 2 College Street
> > Providence, Rhode Island 02903
> >
> > WE ARE NOTHING MORE THAN TRUCK DRIVERS:
> > The Vehicle has changed ..... It is a micro computer not an 18 Wheeler,
> > The Highway has changed ..... It is Fiber Optic not Black Top,
> > The Cargo has changed ..... It is Data Packets not Boxes,
> > The Concept, Delivering Goods and Services, Remains Constant!
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
>
>

From [email protected] Wed Apr 21 00:18:58 1993
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Wed, 21 Apr 1993 08:01:47 +0100
From: Tim Brooks <[email protected]>
To: Alan Thew <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected], [email protected]
Subject: Re: ECSMail (?)
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 17 Apr 1993 15:19:27 BST." <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1993 08:01:43 +0100
Message-Id: <"ppsw1.cam..961:21.03.93.07.01.49"@ppsw.cam.ac.uk>
Status: O
X-Status:

Thanks Alan!

Tim

From [email protected] Thu Apr 22 22:02:41 1993
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Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1993 06:39:15 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Christer Lindh <[email protected]>
Subject: included text
To: Pine Info List <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.07.9304230615.A16862-9100000@abalon>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

When I reply to a mail, the included text is inserted *after* my
signature. This is quite ugly and useless. Does anyone have a patch
that'll fix this "feature"?

:: [email protected] :: o/ :: ::
:: Abalon AB, Stockholm, Sweden :: /@ :: Earth. ::
:: 59.19 N, 17.57 E :: <|\ acro :: Love it or leave it. ::
:: * All disclaimers apply * :: | phil :: ::

From [email protected] Thu Apr 22 22:21:39 1993
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Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1993 22:05:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: included text
To: Christer Lindh <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Info List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.07.9304230615.A16862-9100000@abalon>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

On Fri, 23 Apr 1993, Christer Lindh wrote:

> When I reply to a mail, the included text is inserted *after* my
> signature. This is quite ugly and useless.

Standards vary. Around here it is generally viewed as a feature,
especially if you have an extended interchange, where you would otherwise
have to page down to see the latest comment.

> Does anyone have a patch
> that'll fix this "feature"?

Set "old-style-reply=yes" in your .pinerc

-teg

From [email protected] Thu Apr 22 23:24:15 1993
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Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1993 13:47:18 +0800 (TST)
From: Ed Greshko <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: included text
To: Christer Lindh <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Info List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.07.9304230615.A16862-9100000@abalon>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.07.9304231317.E6176-a100000@cosmo>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

On Fri, 23 Apr 1993, Christer Lindh wrote:

> When I reply to a mail, the included text is inserted *after* my
> signature. This is quite ugly and useless. Does anyone have a patch
> that'll fix this "feature"?

I think you can simply change your .pinerc file to read:

# Use old style forward/reply with new text and signature below included text
old-style-reply=yes

Edward M. Greshko Control Data Taiwan
Voice: +886-2-715-2222 x287 6/F, 131 Nanking East Road, Section 3
FAX : +886-2-712-9197 Taipei, Taiwan R.O.C

From [email protected] Fri Apr 23 04:13:20 1993
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Date: Fri, 23 Apr 93 06:59:48 -0400
From: [email protected] (Michael A. Crowley)
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: included text
Status: O
X-Status:

I would not take an absolute stand on this. There are different
styles, but here we encourage people to include inserted
text AFTER everything. Then if the recipient needs the information
for context, it can be read. One does not have to wade through
their own text to find the reply.

Mike

=========================
>From [email protected] Fri Apr 23 01:01:38 1993
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Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1993 06:39:15 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Christer Lindh <[email protected]>
Subject: included text
To: Pine Info List <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.07.9304230615.A16862-9100000@abalon>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: R

When I reply to a mail, the included text is inserted *after* my
signature. This is quite ugly and useless. Does anyone have a patch
that'll fix this "feature"?

:: [email protected] :: o/ :: ::
:: Abalon AB, Stockholm, Sweden :: /@ :: Earth. ::
:: 59.19 N, 17.57 E :: <|\ acro :: Love it or leave it. ::
:: * All disclaimers apply * :: | phil :: ::

From [email protected] Fri Apr 23 09:42:06 1993
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Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1993 09:40:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sheryl Erez <[email protected]>
Subject: re: included text
To: Christer Lindh <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Info List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.07.9304230615.A16862-9100000@abalon>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

Take a look at the internal help (? under the main menu) - it explains
that this feature is user and system-wide configurable.

Sheryl Erez
[email protected]
UW Network Information Center

On Fri, 23 Apr 1993 06:39:15 +0200 (MET DST), Christer Lindh wrote:

> Subject: included text
> To: Pine Info List <[email protected]>
>
> When I reply to a mail, the included text is inserted *after* my
> signature. This is quite ugly and useless. Does anyone have a patch
> that'll fix this "feature"?
>
> :: [email protected] :: o/ ::
::
> :: Abalon AB, Stockholm, Sweden :: /@ :: Earth.
::
> :: 59.19 N, 17.57 E :: <|\ acro :: Love it or leave it.
::
> :: * All disclaimers apply * :: | phil ::
::

From [email protected] Fri Apr 23 11:22:07 1993
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Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1993 10:53:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sharon Deng <[email protected]>
Subject: Auto Delete
To: Pine Info Group <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: RO
X-Status:

I have disk space problem in my system. And most of the users don't
remember to delete their mail after reading it even they don't intend to
keep it. Are there any way in the system level we can set to automatically
delete the mail after reading it unless the users save it explicitly?

Sharon Deng
Assistant Director Internet: [email protected]
Academic Computer Center [email protected]
University of Redlands Phone: (909)793-2121 x.4963

From [email protected] Fri Apr 23 11:47:51 1993
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Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1993 11:27:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Auto Delete
To: Sharon Deng <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Info Group <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

In the next version we plan to have a configuration option that would cause
(upon quitting Pine) the user to be asked if they want to save all read
messages to a folder, as Elm does.

I'm not eager to add yet another prompt upon quitting... What if the
beginning-of-month sent-mail pruning was extended to include the
proposed received/read message folder?

-teg

On Fri, 23 Apr 1993, Sharon Deng wrote:

>
> I have disk space problem in my system. And most of the users don't
> remember to delete their mail after reading it even they don't intend to
> keep it. Are there any way in the system level we can set to automatically
> delete the mail after reading it unless the users save it explicitly?
>
>
> Sharon Deng
> Assistant Director Internet: [email protected]
> Academic Computer Center [email protected]
> University of Redlands Phone: (909)793-2121 x.4963
>
>
>

From [email protected] Fri Apr 23 12:19:32 1993
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Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1993 14:59:54 -0400
From: Andy Poling <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Andy Poling <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Auto Delete
To: Pine Info Group <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

On Fri, 23 Apr 1993, Terry Gray wrote:
> I'm not eager to add yet another prompt upon quitting... What if the
> beginning-of-month sent-mail pruning was extended to include the
> proposed received/read message folder?

That reminds me of something I've been meaning to mention. I have my
saved-messages folder set to null, but I get asked every month if I want
to move "" to "-month-year" (or whatever it uses). It seems unnecessary
to ask to move aside a non-existent unused saved-messages folder...

Other than that (and better MIME support, which I know is already in the
works) I think PINE is the best thing since sliced bread.

-Andy

Andy Poling Internet: [email protected]
UNIX Systems Programmer Bitnet: ANDY@JHUNIX
Homewood Academic Computing Voice: (410)516-8096
Johns Hopkins University UUCP: uunet!mimsy!aplcen!jhunix!andy

From [email protected] Fri Apr 23 12:27:58 1993
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Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1993 12:08:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Jason R. Thorpe" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: included text
To: Christer Lindh <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Info List <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.07.9304230615.A16862-9100000@abalon>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

On Fri, 23 Apr 1993, Christer Lindh wrote:

> When I reply to a mail, the included text is inserted *after* my
> signature. This is quite ugly and useless. Does anyone have a patch
> that'll fix this "feature"?

All you have to do is set 'old-style-reply=yes' in your .pinerc. That
should take care of it.

Later...

/*****************************************************************************
Jason R. Thorpe - Weatherford Hall 434 - Corvallis, OR - 97331-1701
Bellnet (503) 737-9533 Internet [email protected]
*****************************************************************************/

From [email protected] Fri Apr 23 12:40:52 1993
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Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1993 15:16:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: "James D. Gillmore" <[email protected]>
Subject: Bitnet
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

HELP!
Some of our users are trying to send mail to bitnet addresses. Their mail
is being returned as undeliverable. I am not sure what is causing this as
I mail to other users that are BITnet address. When I tried to mail to
[email protected] it also was returned. However, the user keeps
getting mail from this addressee. Any ideas? I more than confused. :)
Jim Gillmore

From [email protected] Fri Apr 23 12:41:32 1993
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Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1993 12:23:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Auto Delete
To: Andy Poling <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Info Group <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

Thanks Andy.

Fixing the unnecessary prompt is on the list.

-teg

On Fri, 23 Apr 1993, Andy Poling wrote:

> On Fri, 23 Apr 1993, Terry Gray wrote:
> > I'm not eager to add yet another prompt upon quitting... What if the
> > beginning-of-month sent-mail pruning was extended to include the
> > proposed received/read message folder?
>
> That reminds me of something I've been meaning to mention. I have my
> saved-messages folder set to null, but I get asked every month if I want
> to move "" to "-month-year" (or whatever it uses). It seems unnecessary
> to ask to move aside a non-existent unused saved-messages folder...
>
> Other than that (and better MIME support, which I know is already in the
> works) I think PINE is the best thing since sliced bread.
>
> -Andy
>
> Andy Poling Internet: [email protected]
> UNIX Systems Programmer Bitnet: ANDY@JHUNIX
> Homewood Academic Computing Voice: (410)516-8096
> Johns Hopkins University UUCP: uunet!mimsy!aplcen!jhunix!andy
>
>
>

From [email protected] Fri Apr 23 13:18:40 1993
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(5.65c/IDA-1.4.4/AECOM-RIT for [email protected]); Fri, 23 Apr 1993 15:37:57 -0400
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
From: [email protected] (Robert N. Berlinger)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1993 15:37:57 -0400
In-Reply-To: Andy Poling's message of Apr 23, 14:59.
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.4 2/2/92)
To: Andy Poling <[email protected]>,
Pine Info Group <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Auto Delete
Status: O
X-Status:

On Apr 23, 14:59, Andy Poling <[email protected]> wrote:
> That reminds me of something I've been meaning to mention. I have my
> saved-messages folder set to null, but I get asked every month if I want
> to move "" to "-month-year" (or whatever it uses). It seems unnecessary
> to ask to move aside a non-existent unused saved-messages folder...
>-- End of excerpt from Andy Poling

I've patched around this in my copy. Here's the diff -c output:

*** init.c Thu Apr 1 15:14:36 1993
--- init.c.orig Thu Apr 1 15:11:35 1993
***************
*** 1175,1186 ****
lcase(strcpy(tmp,month_abbrev((month_to_use % 12)+1))),
month_to_use/12);

- /* RNB */
- /* Don't prompt to move default_fcc file is default_fcc is null */
- if(!*ps_global->VAR_DEFAULT_FCC)
- goto delete_old;
- /* End RNB */
-
sprintf(prompt, "\007Move current \"%s\" to \"%s-%s-%2d\"",
pretty_fn(ps_global->VAR_DEFAULT_FCC),
pretty_fn(ps_global->VAR_DEFAULT_FCC),
--- 1175,1180 ----

--
Robert N. Berlinger |Internet: [email protected]
Manager of Networking and Systems |UUCP: ...uunet!alsys1!rnb
Research Information Technology |CompuServe: [email protected]
Albert Einstein College of Medicine |AppleLink: [email protected]

From [email protected] Fri Apr 23 13:27:29 1993
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Date: Fri, 23 Apr 93 15:44:59 -0400
From: [email protected] (Jackie "Oh!" Owen)
Message-Id: <9304231944.AA26186@ultrix>
To: [email protected], [email protected]
Subject: Re: Auto Delete

>I have disk space problem in my system. And most of the users don't
>remember to delete their mail after reading it even they don't intend to
>keep it. Are there any way in the system level we can set to automatically
>delete the mail after reading it unless the users save it explicitly?

Alternately, you might try setting quotas on the file system that contains
the system mailboxes. In testing it, I've found that once the quota has been
exceeded for 3 successive logins, any new mail is marked as undeliverable
and will be "returned to sender". If your users know that only so much
mail will "fit" into their mailboxes, they will probably be diligent about
deleting old messages.

Jackie Owen
System Administrator
Ramapo College of NJ
Internet: [email protected]

From [email protected] Fri Apr 23 13:29:01 1993
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Date: Fri, 23 Apr 93 16:14:54 -0500
From: Mike Kuniavsky <[email protected]>
To: Sharon Deng <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Auto Delete
Cc: Pine Info Group <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: Your message
<[email protected]> of Fri, 23 Apr 1993
10:53:19 -0700 (PDT)
Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=US-ASCII

> Are there any way in the system level we can set to
> automatically delete the mail after reading it unless
> the users save it explicitly?

There's a piece of software called mailclean (in comp.sources.misc volume 22,
available at all of the usual places or check archie) which removes "old"
(definable) mail after a set period of time from mailboxes, leaving all of the
other mail. There's also procmail (comp.sources.misc volume 35, I believe)
which can automatically deliver incoming mail to a file in the users' home
directories (as opposed to /usr/spool/mail/username), thus allowing quota to see
all of the mail (and thus indirectly forcing people to delete unwanted mail). I
have not used either of these systems yet, but they both seem like reasonable
solutions to the problem.

Mike Kuniavsky U-M ITD/CSS UNIX Support
[email protected] (313) 998-6262

From [email protected] Fri Apr 23 13:39:15 1993
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Date: Fri, 23 Apr 93 15:56:00 -0400
From: [email protected] (Jackie "Oh!" Owen)
Message-Id: <9304231956.AA26478@ultrix>
To: [email protected], [email protected]
Subject: Re: Bitnet

Perhaps you should have your users try to convert the addresses such as:

[email protected] to user%[email protected]

where cunyvm.cuny.edu is a Bitnet/Internet gateway.

Jackie Owen
Systems Administrator
Ramapo College of NJ
Internet: [email protected]

>HELP!
>Some of our users are trying to send mail to bitnet addresses. Their mail
>is being returned as undeliverable. I am not sure what is causing this as
>I mail to other users that are BITnet address. When I tried to mail to
>[email protected] it also was returned. However, the user keeps
>getting mail from this addressee. Any ideas? I more than confused. :)
>Jim Gillmore

From [email protected] Fri Apr 23 13:51:55 1993
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Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1993 16:30:59 -0400
From: Andy Poling <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Auto Delete
To: Mike Kuniavsky <[email protected]>
Cc: Sharon Deng <[email protected]>,
Pine Info Group <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Fri, 23 Apr 1993, Mike Kuniavsky wrote:
> > Are there any way in the system level we can set to
> > automatically delete the mail after reading it unless
> > the users save it explicitly?
[...]
> There's also procmail (comp.sources.misc volume 35, I believe)
> which can automatically deliver incoming mail to a file in the users' home
> directories (as opposed to /usr/spool/mail/username), thus allowing quota to see
> all of the mail (and thus indirectly forcing people to delete unwanted mail).

Our solution to keeping users' mail in the quota'd area was to make
/usr/spool/mail a symlink to /users/mail, where /users is the partition
holding users' home directories and on which quotas are active.

Note: that created a new set of problems when mail got bounced because a
user was temporarily too close to their quota for the mail to fit. I
ended up making quota-overage a temporary failure, giving the user 3 days
to clean up and get their backed-up mail. This seems to make everybody
pretty happy. Of course retrying all of this backed up mail can kill your
system - we use a modified version of zmailer as our MTA, allowing me to
specify that over-quota failures will only be retried every 8 hours.

-Andy

Andy Poling Internet: [email protected]
UNIX Systems Programmer Bitnet: ANDY@JHUNIX
Homewood Academic Computing Voice: (410)516-8096
Johns Hopkins University UUCP: uunet!mimsy!aplcen!jhunix!andy

From [email protected] Fri Apr 23 14:22:26 1993
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From: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: included text
To: [email protected]
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1993 17:10:18 -0400 (EDT)
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]> from "Michael A. Crowley" at Apr 23, 93 06:59:48 am
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Michael A. Crowley writes:
> [...] if the recipient needs the information for context, it can be
> read. One does not have to wade through their own text to find the
> reply.

Wouldn't a simpler (and more efficient) solution be to
encourage users to trim down attributions?

Personally, anyone who quotes my entire message back at me
verbatim (when the message isn't going to any new recipients) gets on
my bad side in a hurry. I know what I said; I don't need my time
wasted in such a manner.

It would seem to me that putting attributions after the body
of the main text encourages people to do this. Which is easier... to
skim down and trim up the attributions, or to just save the message
and send it?

Regards,

James

--
James Ralston Crawford \ Assistant Supervisor \ Advanced Technology Lab
[email protected] \ [email protected] \ [email protected]
"Computer, you and I need to have a little talk." - O'Brien, ST:DS9

From [email protected] Fri Apr 23 14:25:30 1993
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Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1993 16:13:25 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <[email protected]>
Subject: More often saving of sent-mail
To: Pine Info <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

As long as we're in the process of throwing out ideas for future pine
releases, I figure I'd throw one out too.

Right now the sent-mail folder renews itself on the first of every month.
I was wondering if it would be possible to set it up to have it prompt for
a new folder weekly instead of monthly (like every Monday morning at
midnight or something).

This is more of a convienience thing than serving any real purpose.

(and yes, I know I could go through and delete out old stuff)

Thanks for any input.

[> Robert Hayden ____ <] Black Holes result from God
[> \ /__ <] dividing the universe by zero.
[> [email protected] \/ / <]
[> [email protected] \/ <] # include std_disclaimer.h

From [email protected] Mon Apr 26 04:08:47 1993
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Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1993 11:46:35 +0100 (BST)
From: Philip Hazel <[email protected]>
Subject:
To: maillist Pine <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Is this a known bug in Pine 3.05?

I sent myself two messages from another system. The only difference was
that in one I used upper case for the mail address and in the other I used
lower case. Pine behaved differently when I tried to reply to each of
these messages.

For the one with the lower case address, all was as expected; I did not
get a "reply to all recipients" message - correct, as there was only one
recipient.

For the one with the upper case address, first of all I did get a "reply
to all recipients" prompt, and when I replied Y to this one, Pine set up
the message with a SINGLE recipient, which was the upper case original
recipient address. The sender's address had got lost. The message in
question was this:

>From metcalfe.csi.cam.ac.uk!ph10 Mon Apr 26 11:42:50 1993
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Date: Mon, 26 Apr 93 11:42:31 BST
From: [email protected] (Phil Hazel)
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: test 2
Status: RO
X-Status:

test 2

I started on this investigation as I thought I had been getting unexpected
prompts when replying to certain messages. Looks as if Pine isn't folding
the case of the the address correctly.

Philip

--
Philip Hazel University Computing Service,
[email protected] New Museums Site, Cambridge CB2 3QG,
[email protected] England. Phone: +44 223 334714

From [email protected] Mon Apr 26 08:42:54 1993
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Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1993 10:14:37 -600
To: [email protected]
From: [email protected] (Mayfield Harris)
X-Sender: [email protected]
Subject: Version of Pine
X-Mailer: <PC Eudora Version 1.0.1>

Can anyone tell me the latest version of Pine. I have 3.05 and hope this is
it. if not, what is the latest and where can I get it?

Mayfield Harris
LAN Specialist
Rice University
Phone: 713-527-4642
Fax: 713-527-6099
Internet: [email protected]

From [email protected] Mon Apr 26 09:09:28 1993
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Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1993 09:06:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sheryl Erez <[email protected]>
Subject: re: case sensitive address matching
To: Philip Hazel <[email protected]>
Cc: maillist Pine <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

This is a known bug in 3.05 and 3.07. There are plans to fix it in
future releases. Right now, when Pine compares addresses, it will
think that 'PH10' and 'ph10' are different people.

Sheryl Erez
[email protected]
UW Network Information Center

On Mon, 26 Apr 1993 11:46:35 +0100 (BST), Philip Hazel wrote:

> Subject:
> To: maillist Pine <[email protected]>
>
> Is this a known bug in Pine 3.05?
>
> I sent myself two messages from another system. The only difference was
> that in one I used upper case for the mail address and in the other I used
> lower case. Pine behaved differently when I tried to reply to each of
> these messages.

From [email protected] Mon Apr 26 10:20:27 1993
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(5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4 for [email protected]); Mon, 26 Apr 1993 18:50:08 +0200
From: Arnt Gulbrandsen <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Version of Pine (and status of Pine for PC?)
To: [email protected] (Mayfield Harris)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1993 18:47:32 +0200 (EET)
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]> from "Mayfield Harris" at Apr 26, 93 06:35:46 pm
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> Can anyone tell me the latest version of Pine. I have 3.05 and hope this is
> it. if not, what is the latest and where can I get it?

3.07. ftp.cac.uwashington.edu.

Also, what's the status of Pine for PC?

--
Arnt Gulbrandsen
[email protected]

From [email protected] Mon Apr 26 11:41:50 1993
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Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1993 14:13:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dan Schlitt <[email protected]>
Subject: re: case sensitive address matching
To: Sheryl Erez <[email protected]>
Cc: Philip Hazel <[email protected]>,
maillist Pine <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Are you certain that you want to "fix" this? My memory is that only the
host part of an address is case insensitive. Officially the local part
of the address is to be interpreted by the addressed host as it
determines. The only limitation is in the characters that are allowed.

Accepting an address that has the local part in the "wrong" case is the
right thing to do -- be liberal in what you accept. But making an
assumption about what the sending host intended when you generate the
return address may not be the right thing.

At this time it isn't safe to use case sensitive local parts. But until
the Internet standard gets changed to require that the whold address and
not just the host part in case insensitive it might be better to retain
the case of characters in the local part of the address. You never know
when someone is going to start taking the RFC seriously.

My suggestion is that the sending host knows what it wants so preserve the
case when constructing the reply address. Don't modify headers to suit
your prejudices. Deal with the case problem when making comparisons in
your program. Decide what to do with the mail using the results of the
comparison but don't alter the data.

Dan Schlitt School of Engineering Computer Systems
[email protected] City College of New York
(212)650-6760 New York, NY 10031

From [email protected] Mon Apr 26 11:45:09 1993
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Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1993 14:32:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: Chris Maukonen <[email protected]>
Subject: Multiple Mailboxes and IMAP
To: pine-info <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9304261432.D7233-8100000@aquarius>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Hi,

Does the current verson of imapd support multiple mailboxes ? If so, how do I
set it up ? I looked throught the doc, but I am still confused about this.
Could some one please enlighten me.

Thanks

Chris

From [email protected] Mon Apr 26 12:18:22 1993
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Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1993 11:53:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Subject: re: Multiple Mailboxes and IMAP
To: Chris Maukonen <[email protected]>
Cc: pine-info <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9304261432.D7233-8100000@aquarius>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 26 Apr 1993 14:32:32 -0400 (EDT), Chris Maukonen wrote:
> Does the current verson of imapd support multiple mailboxes? If so, how do I
> set it up ? I looked throught the doc, but I am still confused about this.
> Could some one please enlighten me.

imapd has always supported multiple mailboxes. You can access a mailbox other
than INBOX by opening {server_host}mailbox, e.g. {imaphost}mail/foo .

The way you create such a mailbox has changed. In older IMAP servers that
conform to RFC-1176, the only way you can create a mailbox is by copying a
message to a non-existant mailbox name. In newer versions of IMAP2bis IMAP
servers, copying to a non-existant mailbox is an error, and you must give an
explicit create operation.

The current release version (3.07) of Pine does not know about the new method,
but the development version in alpha test here does. I'm not sure how Pine
3.07 handles creating of non-INBOX IMAP mailboxes; it may not offer that
capability in any obvious way.

From [email protected] Mon Apr 26 12:26:08 1993
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Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1993 12:11:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Jason R. Thorpe" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Version of Pine
To: Mayfield Harris <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 26 Apr 1993, Mayfield Harris wrote:

> Can anyone tell me the latest version of Pine. I have 3.05 and hope this is
> it. if not, what is the latest and where can I get it?

Pine 3.07 is available by anonymous ftp at ftp.cac.washington.edu. It is
located at /pine/pine.tar.Z . That is a link to the latest version.
Alternatively, you could cd to /pine and get pine3.07.tar.Z, whichever you
prefer.

Later...

/*****************************************************************************
Jason R. Thorpe - Weatherford Hall 434 - Corvallis, OR - 97331-1701
Bellnet (503) 737-9533 Internet [email protected]
*****************************************************************************/

From [email protected] Mon Apr 26 12:56:12 1993
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Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1993 12:46:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: "David L. Miller" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Multiple Mailboxes and IMAP
To: Chris Maukonen <[email protected]>
Cc: pine-info <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9304261432.D7233-8100000@aquarius>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

When I talked to Mark & Mike last week, that was their hottest project,
figuring out how to support multiple mailboxes/folders. I think they are
getting pretty close...

*****************************************************************************
David L. Miller Internet: [email protected]
Systems Programmer/Network Analyst BITNET: MILLERD@WSUVM1
Washington State University Tri-Cities UUCP: ...!yoda!dmiller
100 Sprout Road
Richland, WA 99352 Phone: (509)375-9245
*****************************************************************************

On Mon, 26 Apr 1993, Chris Maukonen wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Does the current verson of imapd support multiple mailboxes ? If so, how do I
> set it up ? I looked throught the doc, but I am still confused about this.
> Could some one please enlighten me.
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Chris
>
>
>

From [email protected] Tue Apr 27 01:43:26 1993
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id m0nnl0I-00002zC; Tue, 27 Apr 93 09:27 BST
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1993 09:21:06 +0100 (BST)
From: Philip Hazel <[email protected]>
Subject: re: case sensitive address matching
To: Dan Schlitt <[email protected]>
Cc: Sheryl Erez <[email protected]>,
maillist Pine <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 26 Apr 1993, Dan Schlitt wrote:

> Accepting an address that has the local part in the "wrong" case is the
> right thing to do -- be liberal in what you accept. But making an
> assumption about what the sending host intended when you generate the
> return address may not be the right thing.

That's all very well, but Pine currently does the wrong thing. I received a
message addressed to [email protected] from someone@somewhere. When I
pressed "R" to reply, I got prompted "reply to all recipients", and when I
pressed "Y", the reply message got set up addressed to [email protected]
and NOT to the original sender at all. Whatever you think about case
handling, this behaviour is definitely WRONG!

> My suggestion is that the sending host knows what it wants so preserve the
> case when constructing the reply address. Don't modify headers to suit
> your prejudices. Deal with the case problem when making comparisons in
> your program. Decide what to do with the mail using the results of the
> comparison but don't alter the data.

I don't follow this. It was the case of MY address that was causing the
problem, not the case of the sender's address. My address should not have
appeared in the reply addresses at all.

--
Philip Hazel University Computing Service,
[email protected] New Museums Site, Cambridge CB2 3QG,
[email protected] England. Phone: +44 223 334714

From [email protected] Tue Apr 27 03:36:16 1993
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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1993 11:09:34 +0100 (BST)
From: Paul Sutton <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Paul Sutton <[email protected]>
Subject: Sun cmdtool ti/te in pico
To: Pine Developement List <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Hello!

I've(*) just noticed that standalone pico doesn't use the termcap ti/te
strings to init and end using the terminal. This results in it messing up
bad in a cmdtool window. Interestingly, pine does it all ok.

So:

a. Have I done something wrong, and it should work?
b. If not, is it on the to-do list?
c. If it is (or even if not) do you want my little hack which seems
to have fixed it? (for Sun's with termcap anyway).

Paul

(*) Ok, someone else noticed, I've been using xterm windows too long!
--
Paul Sutton | Computer Centre, University of Bradford,
[email protected] | Bradford, UK. Tel +44.274.383319

From [email protected] Tue Apr 27 06:02:55 1993
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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1993 13:50:52 +0100 (BST)
From: "A. Hilborne" <[email protected]>
Reply-To: "A. Hilborne" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Auto Delete
To: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Cc: Sharon Deng <[email protected]>,
Pine Info Group <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

On Fri, 23 Apr 1993, Terry Gray wrote:

> In the next version we plan to have a configuration option that would cause
> (upon quitting Pine) the user to be asked if they want to save all read
> messages to a folder, as Elm does.
>
> I'm not eager to add yet another prompt upon quitting... What if the
> beginning-of-month sent-mail pruning was extended to include the
> proposed received/read message folder?

Please, let's make all such prompts configuration options (as in Elm.)
I'm sure they help the neophyte user, but they are a real pain in the neck
to everyone else, and they gain us nothing, as we simply become used to
typing q RET y RET at the end.

--
Andrew M. Hilborne [email protected]
Computing Service Tel: +44 91 222 8226 (direct)
University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK. +44 91 222 8039 (Comp Service office)

From [email protected] Tue Apr 27 06:46:47 1993
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Organization: Istituto di Fisica Cosmica e Tecnologie Relative
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1993 15:21:21 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Lucio Chiappetti <[email protected]>
Subject: pine -k on Digital LK501 keyboards
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Hello, I had the address of this list saying that some members may be able
to reply to my question.

I have a DECstation 5000 with a standard Digital LK501 keyboard (the sort
of stuff you find also on most Digital VT3xx terminal, you know, the thing
with 20 functional keys, a keypad with arrows, Find, Insert Here and alike,
and, on the extreme right an 18-key numeric keypad ... the sort of stuff
which VMS EDT uses for editing).

In general I work on the DECstation from DECterm windows (handled by
/usr/bin/dxterm, under Ultrix 4.3 and Motif/DECwindows).

I have recently installed Pine on this machine. I'd like to run it in
"pine -k" mode, having Pine function keys assigned as follows :

F1/2/3 to keypad PF1/2/3
F4/5/6 to keypad 7/8/9
F7/8/9 to keypad 4/5/6
F10/11/12 to keypad 1/2/3

I won't mind being able also to assign the "next page" and "previous page"
keys to the Prev and Next keys in the keypad above the arrow keys

I was able to the same thing for an xterm using the following lines
in .Xdefaults, as suggested in Pine Technical Doc

Pine*VT100.translations: #override \
<Key>KP_F1: string(0x1b) string("OP") \n\
<Key>KP_F2: string(0x1b) string("OQ") \n\
<Key>KP_F3: string(0x1b) string("OR") \n\
<Key>KP_7: string(0x1b) string("OS") \n\
<Key>KP_8: string(0x1b) string("Op") \n\
<Key>KP_9: string(0x1b) string("Oq") \n\
<Key>KP_4: string(0x1b) string("Or") \n\
<Key>KP_5: string(0x1b) string("Os") \n\
<Key>KP_6: string(0x1b) string("Ot") \n\
<Key>KP_1: string(0x1b) string("Ou") \n\
<Key>KP_2: string(0x1b) string("Ov") \n\
<Key>KP_3: string(0x1b) string("Ow") \n\
<Key>Prior: string(0x1b) string("Or") \n\
<Key>Next: string(0x1b) string("Os") \n\
<Key>Find: string(0x1b) string("Ow") \n

I do not know what are the resources to do the same for /usr/bin/dxterm.
Can anybody help me (please send a personal reply, I'm not a full fledged
subscriber to pine-info)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
A member of G.ASS : Group for Astronomical Software Support
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lucio Chiappetti - IFCTR/CNR Milano | U N I C U I Q U E
via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano - Italy | System Manager
Internet: [email protected] | FORTUNAE SUAE
Decnet: IFCTR::LUCIO (39610::LUCIO) |
Bitnet: <please do not use any more> |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From [email protected] Tue Apr 27 08:17:53 1993
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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1993 10:50:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dan Schlitt <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Auto Delete
To: "A. Hilborne" <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Info Group <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I agree about the prompts on quiting. I find them very annoying. I would
like to see the "do you really want to quit" prompt go away at the
"old-growth" level. When I hit q I mean I want to quit. I don't see any
damage that will occur if I make a mistake. The "do you really want to
delete" prompt can save you so it might make sense to make it configurable.

At the middle level you might make things configurable but have the novice
level configuration as default.

I realize that this adds to the complexity of the program. But you
already have invited that complexity by have three levels. The only thing
that you haven't done is make the levels significantly different. What
did the designers have in mind when they included them in the design?

/dan

Dan Schlitt School of Engineering Computer Systems
[email protected] City College of New York
(212)650-6760 New York, NY 10031

From [email protected] Tue Apr 27 08:26:32 1993
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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1993 16:09:52 +0100 (BST)
From: Philip Hazel <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Auto Delete
To: "A. Hilborne" <[email protected]>
Cc: Terry Gray <[email protected]>, Sharon Deng <[email protected]>,
Pine Info Group <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

> Please, let's make all such prompts configuration options (as in Elm.)
> I'm sure they help the neophyte user, but they are a real pain in the neck
> to everyone else, and they gain us nothing, as we simply become used to
> typing q RET y RET at the end.

Absolutely! To send a message my fingers now automatically type ^X Y
without thinking, and similarly my brain now associates the "expunge"
function with the key sequence X Y. I would love to turn these prompts off.

--
Philip Hazel University Computing Service,
[email protected] New Museums Site, Cambridge CB2 3QG,
[email protected] England. Phone: +44 223 334714

From [email protected] Tue Apr 27 08:58:22 1993
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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1993 08:41:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sharon Deng <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Auto Delete
To: Philip Hazel <[email protected]>
Cc: "A. Hilborne" <[email protected]>,
Terry Gray <[email protected]>,
Pine Info Group <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Tue, 27 Apr 1993, Philip Hazel wrote:

> > Please, let's make all such prompts configuration options (as in Elm.)
> > I'm sure they help the neophyte user, but they are a real pain in the neck
> > to everyone else, and they gain us nothing, as we simply become used to
> > typing q RET y RET at the end.
>
> Absolutely! To send a message my fingers now automatically type ^X Y
> without thinking, and similarly my brain now associates the "expunge"
> function with the key sequence X Y. I would love to turn these prompts off.
>
>
> --
> Philip Hazel University Computing Service,
> [email protected] New Museums Site, Cambridge CB2 3QG,
> [email protected] England. Phone: +44 223 334714
>
>

I agree to make it as configuration option. I always do what Philip
does, and I know a lot of my users do the same thing. No point to make
another prompt.

Sharon Deng
Assistant Director Internet: [email protected]
Academic Computer Center [email protected]
University of Redlands Phone: (909)793-2121 x.4963

From [email protected] Tue Apr 27 15:20:26 1993
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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1993 16:58:58 +0500 ()
From: Dan Mandell <[email protected]>
Subject: Pine's screen handler
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Two questions:

1. When connected to our HP running Pine 3.03 at 2400 Bd I must be careful
about holding the cursor keys down when moving around, lest the rapid
repetition of a cursor command cause problems with the screen handler and
create garbage in the message being edited, or at least on the screen
until it is rewritten. I am careful at 2400 Bd, but concerned about the
cursom movements at higher baudrates (the problems seems sensitive to
modem speed and do not occur except on modem connected terminals).

2. We have faculty that prefer to upload ascii files directly into pico or
pine, rather using eg. kermit transfers. However, most of the ASCII
transfer modes introduce what look like ANSI screen commands into the
document. Is there a way to do this cleanly?

--
=====================================
Dan Mandell, Academic Computing
Saint Mary's College
Internet: [email protected]

From [email protected] Tue Apr 27 16:13:55 1993
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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1993 15:57:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Pete Kaplan <[email protected]>
Subject: Reading Attachment pblm.
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Dear pine-info,

One of my users just sent me:

I was trying to view a text attachment, and got the following error
message: [Don't know how to display attachment format
Application/OCTET-STREAM] It would not allow me to display the attachment
to the screen, but I _was_ able to save it to disk, and then read it in
the editor.
Is there anything else I should have done, to read it to screen within
PINE? Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Can you help us?

Pete Kaplan Sys Adm

From [email protected] Tue Apr 27 23:30:18 1993
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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1993 23:18:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Reading Attachment pblm.
To: Pete Kaplan <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Pete,
This is a problem with the way Pine is typing the text file attachment.
It will be fixed in the upcoming version.

-teg

On Tue, 27 Apr 1993, Pete Kaplan wrote:

> Dear pine-info,
>
> One of my users just sent me:
>
> I was trying to view a text attachment, and got the following error
> message: [Don't know how to display attachment format
> Application/OCTET-STREAM] It would not allow me to display the attachment
> to the screen, but I _was_ able to save it to disk, and then read it in
> the editor.
> Is there anything else I should have done, to read it to screen within
> PINE? Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Can you help us?
>
> Pete Kaplan Sys Adm

From [email protected] Wed Apr 28 05:35:02 1993
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Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 08:25:15 +0500 (EST)
From: Chip Cobb <[email protected]>
Subject: Please add me to the PINE email list
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Please add me to the Pine email list.

My name is Chip Cobb
email: [email protected]

Thanks in advance,
Chip

..................................................................
Chip Cobb ~ [email protected] ~ TOON ~ TI Attleboro MA USA
..................................................................

Everything should be as simple as possible, but not simpler.
`Albert Einstein'

From [email protected] Wed Apr 28 05:55:01 1993
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Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 08:41:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine's screen handler
To: Dan Mandell <[email protected]>
Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

On Tue, 27 Apr 1993, Dan Mandell wrote:
>
> Two questions:
>
> 1. When connected to our HP running Pine 3.03 at 2400 Bd I must be careful
> about holding the cursor keys down when moving around, lest the rapid
> repetition of a cursor command cause problems with the screen handler and
> create garbage in the message being edited, or at least on the screen
> until it is rewritten. I am careful at 2400 Bd, but concerned about the
> cursom movements at higher baudrates (the problems seems sensitive to
> modem speed and do not occur except on modem connected terminals).

I think the problem here is with the terminal driver buffering on the HP.
It could also be a similar problem in the terminal server or other links
between your keyboard and Pico, possibly including your terminal emulator.
Pico can swallow characters as fast as possible as long as it can get CPU
cycles and output the screen painting.

I don't think there's an easy solution to this. The easiest might be
changing terminal emulators (if it's the cause of the problem). What
happens to me with Procomm at 2400b is that the character buffer fills
up and it beeps at me. Once I wait for the beep to stop all is well.

> 2. We have faculty that prefer to upload ascii files directly into pico or
> pine, rather using eg. kermit transfers. However, most of the ASCII
> transfer modes introduce what look like ANSI screen commands into the
> document. Is there a way to do this cleanly?

Well, the clean way is to run Pine on your PC! Should be possible soon....
There's not really any guarantees that loading it directly into the buffer
will work (there's no error or flow control when you do this).

Laurence Lundblade
[email protected] or [email protected] (both forward to same place)
Blacksburg, Virginia or Seattle, Washington

From [email protected] Wed Apr 28 08:19:43 1993
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Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 08:04:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: VMS Posix or VMS port for Pine?
To: SECRIST <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <2735120928041993/A01823/UTKVX3/1174E24C2100*@mb.utcc.utk.edu>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Mark,
We've had inquiries about a VMS port before, but I'm not sure what's
actually happening; hence, I've CC'd the "pine-info" list to elicit
comment from anyone who might be working on one.

-teg

On 28 Apr 1993, SECRIST wrote:

>
> Hello,
>
> Our UNIX group (mostly SUNs) had installed
> Pine, and I received a copy of the source to try to
> port to OpenVMS. Noticing the ifdefs for
> POSIX_WAIT/SIGNALS in the HPP and AIX (A32?), I tried
> to build under HPP and got close but was missing some
> include files under POSIX. Can you tell me if there is
> any ongoing effort to get Pine working under VMS Posix
> or OpenVMS? Any hints or suggestions are welcome.
> Thanks.
>
> Mark Secrist
> [email protected]
> Univ. of TN, Knoxville
>
>

From [email protected] Wed Apr 28 09:51:18 1993
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Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 93 11:22:54 CDT
From: Rick Troth <[email protected]>
Subject: PC Pine via dial-up
To: [email protected]

Hi,

I've mentioned this elsewhere but still don't know the scoop.
What about running Pine over a dial-up? I mean on a PC or Mac w/o
a network connection such that the dial-up essentially performs IMAP.
Is this being developed? T'would be nice ... "way cool" and etc.

Rick Troth <[email protected]>, Rice University, Information Systems

From [email protected] Wed Apr 28 09:59:04 1993
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Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 12:39:33 -0400
From: Andy Poling <[email protected]>
Subject: Messages that cause heartburn
To: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I run into messages once in a while (like today - a PMDF bounce message)
that cause PINE to report an internal bug when I try to read them. They
almost always contain MIME format data.

Should I send the messages which cause these errors to this list or to a
particular person?

-Andy

Andy Poling Internet: [email protected]
UNIX Systems Programmer Bitnet: ANDY@JHUNIX
Homewood Academic Computing Voice: (410)516-8096
Johns Hopkins University UUCP: uunet!mimsy!aplcen!jhunix!andy

From [email protected] Wed Apr 28 12:09:46 1993
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Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 13:46:37 -0500 (CDT)
From: Rick Troth <[email protected]>
Subject: this is wonderful!
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=Latin-1

I am very impressed. Pine appears to be the mail user agent
for which I've waited for lo these many years. Me? I'm hooked
on RiceMAIL. But RiceMAIL has one serious drawback. You need
either a megabuck box from IBM, Amdahl, Hitachi, Fujitsu, etc.
or at least a P/370 workstation for probably $20K to run it. :-(
Too bad. Y'all would like it.

What editor am I using here? Is it the Pine PICO? It's nice.

Couple of things, though. First, I gotta urge the developers
to avoid explicit character encoding names where a character "set"
name will do. Look at mine. Latin-1 is what you probably mean
when you say ISO-8859-1. ISO-8859-1 is an ASCII-compatible encoding
of those characters in the "Latin-1" set. Latin-1 is valid in
places where ISO-8859-1 really isn't, like on CMS. Latin-1 is
to CMS "Codepage 1047", and that's fine. But when it says
CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 and I'm reading it on CMS, it's a lie.

Also, avoid "quoted printable". If you need safe transfer encoding,
use Base 64. All MIME capable user agents can handle that, but
"quoted printable" breaks much more easily than Base 64.

Nice job, folx!

--
Thanks to the new IBM, most ESA systems today
can be suspected of being stable. -- Barton Robinson

Rick Troth <[email protected]>, Rice University, Information Systems

From [email protected] Wed Apr 28 12:48:18 1993
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Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 12:26:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Subject: re: Messages that cause heartburn
To: Andy Poling <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Wed, 28 Apr 1993 12:39:33 -0400, Andy Poling wrote:
> I run into messages once in a while (like today - a PMDF bounce message)
> that cause PINE to report an internal bug when I try to read them. They
> almost always contain MIME format data.

Are you running Pine 3.07? There are some known bugs in Pine 3.05 and earlier
that could cause crashes with strangely formatted MIME data. Fixes for most
of these bugs are in Pine 3.07. All known bugs are fixed in the lastest
development sources. One of the most worst bugs had to do with a Content-Type
that had a blank subtype, e.g. ``TEXT/'' (note the trailing slash).

If the problem still happens in Pine 3.07, please send us a copy of the
message that triggers the bug with instructions on how to reproduce it.

> Should I send the messages which cause these errors to this list or to a
> particular person?

It is best to send such reports to [email protected]. You may also
want to call a bug in c-client (which does RFC822/MIME parsing as well as
actual mailbox handling) directly to my attention, but please don't send a bug
report only to me. First, UW keeps an archive of the reports; second, about
30% of the bugs sent directly to me turn out to be in another programmer's
balliwick.

Regards,

-- Mark --

From [email protected] Wed Apr 28 13:32:57 1993
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Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 13:17:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: PC Pine via dial-up
To: Rick Troth <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Rick,
Dialup mail access is important to us as well. For the time being,
we're only looking at supporting dialup IP connections; that is, SLIP or
PPP, since the idea of having a different async protocol for every
different network app is a painful prospect.

-teg

On Wed, 28 Apr 1993, Rick Troth wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I've mentioned this elsewhere but still don't know the scoop.
> What about running Pine over a dial-up? I mean on a PC or Mac w/o
> a network connection such that the dial-up essentially performs IMAP.
> Is this being developed? T'would be nice ... "way cool" and etc.
>
> Rick Troth <[email protected]>, Rice University, Information Systems
>

From [email protected] Wed Apr 28 14:01:44 1993
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Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 13:33:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: "David L. Miller" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: this is wonderful!
To: Rick Troth <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected], [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Well, the problem with using "Latin-1" is that it is not in the MIME
standard. It may be in a follow-on RFC, but it is not in RFC-1341. Now
if your system cannot handle the ISO-8859-x charset directly, a translation
needs to occur. I guess my point is that pine has always followed the
principle that the standards should be followed as closely as possible
even if it causes some inconvenience to non-conforming systems.

*****************************************************************************
David L. Miller Internet: [email protected]
Systems Programmer/Network Analyst BITNET: MILLERD@WSUVM1
Washington State University Tri-Cities UUCP: ...!yoda!dmiller
100 Sprout Road
Richland, WA 99352 Phone: (509)375-9245
*****************************************************************************

On Wed, 28 Apr 1993, Rick Troth wrote:

> I am very impressed. Pine appears to be the mail user agent
> for which I've waited for lo these many years. Me? I'm hooked
> on RiceMAIL. But RiceMAIL has one serious drawback. You need
> either a megabuck box from IBM, Amdahl, Hitachi, Fujitsu, etc.
> or at least a P/370 workstation for probably $20K to run it. :-(
> Too bad. Y'all would like it.
>
> What editor am I using here? Is it the Pine PICO? It's nice.
>
> Couple of things, though. First, I gotta urge the developers
> to avoid explicit character encoding names where a character "set"
> name will do. Look at mine. Latin-1 is what you probably mean
> when you say ISO-8859-1. ISO-8859-1 is an ASCII-compatible encoding
> of those characters in the "Latin-1" set. Latin-1 is valid in
> places where ISO-8859-1 really isn't, like on CMS. Latin-1 is
> to CMS "Codepage 1047", and that's fine. But when it says
> CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 and I'm reading it on CMS, it's a lie.
>
> Also, avoid "quoted printable". If you need safe transfer encoding,
> use Base 64. All MIME capable user agents can handle that, but
> "quoted printable" breaks much more easily than Base 64.
>
> Nice job, folx!
>
> --
> Thanks to the new IBM, most ESA systems today
> can be suspected of being stable. -- Barton Robinson
>
> Rick Troth <[email protected]>, Rice University, Information Systems
>
>

From [email protected] Wed Apr 28 13:53:31 1993
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Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 13:36:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sheryl Erez <[email protected]>
Subject: re: Messages that cause heartburn (a.k.a. pine bugs)
To: Andy Poling <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

This seems like a good time to post a reminder about bug reports.
The address for bugs is [email protected]. If you
see something that you think is a bug in Pine, send it in. It
helps us enormously if you add as much context as possible. What
version of Pine do you use? What system hardware and software?
Clippings from .pine-debug files and a good description of the
situation in which the bug occurs are much appreciated.

If it is a known bug, we'll tell you that -- it saves you time and
lets us know what problems are coming up frequently. If the problem
looks like it is about IMAP or other code Pine depends on, we can
make sure the right people see the report. If we think it is some
problem in your local setup outside of Pine, we'll tell you that too.

I do have two requests: Don't suggest to plain old users that they
send in reports to [email protected] without a local
"computer person" taking a look at it first. Also, be as patient as
you can with response time -- we're sending email as fast as we can!

Sheryl Erez
[email protected]
UW Network Information Center

On Wed, 28 Apr 1993 12:39:33 -0400, Andy Poling wrote:

> Should I send the messages which cause these errors to this list or to a
> particular person?
>
> -Andy
>
> Andy Poling Internet: [email protected]
> UNIX Systems Programmer Bitnet: ANDY@JHUNIX
> Homewood Academic Computing Voice: (410)516-8096
> Johns Hopkins University UUCP:
uunet!mimsy!aplcen!jhunix!andy

From [email protected] Thu Apr 29 01:20:21 1993
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Thu, 29 Apr 1993 09:08:57 +0100
From: Tim Brooks <[email protected]>
To: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Cc: Rick Troth <[email protected]>, [email protected]
Subject: Re: PC Pine via dial-up
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 28 Apr 1993 13:17:28 PDT." <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1993 09:08:53 +0100
Message-Id: <"ppsw1.cam..824:29.03.93.08.09.04"@ppsw.cam.ac.uk>

The Eudora UA (Mac POP based UA) has a neat dial-up approach.
Basically it automatically dials up and logs you onto your server then
execs the srialpop package to which it then sends "telnet <host>
<port>" commands. Srialpop sets up the required session and then
transparently passes through the protocol (SMTP or POP in this case)
"messages" between the SMTP/POP servers and the dialup UA. All you
would need to do to extend it for IMAP2 is add in the port number to
the list of allowed ports.

Therefore there is no need to implement different protocols, just the
modem driver and login/exec/telnet sequence.

Tim Brooks
Mail-Support(@UK.AC.Cam.UCS, @UCS.Cam.AC.UK)

University of Cambridge Computing Service Tel: 0223-334709, Int: +44 223 334709
New Museums Site Fax: 0223-334678, Int: +44 223 334678
Pembroke Street Telex: 81240 CAMSPL G
CAMBRIDGE E-Mail(JNT): [email protected]
CB2 3QG United Kingdom "(Internet): [email protected]
X.400: /I=T/S=Brooks/OU=Computing-Service/O=Cambridge/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/

From [email protected] Thu Apr 29 02:01:41 1993
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Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1993 09:26:11 +0100 (BST)
From: Mike Roch <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Mike Roch <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Dialup access for PC-Pine
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9304290938.A13469-b100000-b100000-b100000@suma1>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Can I recommend the strategy employed by (Mac) Eudora which is more-or-less
protocol independent for the micro concerned?

Steve Dorner allows the Mac user to define a login script to dial-up,
navigate through any data switches and login (apparently as a "live"
asynch caller) to an IP host. The script (or a suitable shell provided on
the host - e.g. serialpop - source on ftp.qualcomm.com:) then says
telnet mail.host.name 110/stream (to collect mail via pop)
then says telnet mail.host.name 25/stream (to dispatch any outbound mail)
then says exit
and (if logout doesn't drop the connection) a second script handles the
disconnect.

I spent a lot of time struggling with SLIP and failed to get reliable
dial-up connections with POPmail. Using Eudora as described has proved
totally reliable and can work anywhere which has dialup access to any kind
of host able to telnet the POP/SMTP host. So why not the IMAP host?

Besides we don't offer SLIP or PPP access, but we do want PC-Pine. The PC's
concerned contact our Unix hosts by several (distinctly British) techniques!

Mike

==============================================================================
Mike Roch, Computer Services Centre, Tel: 0734 318430
The University, Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AX. Fax: 0734 753094

From [email protected] Thu Apr 29 05:39:53 1993
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id AA26673; Thu, 29 Apr 93 07:25:37 EDT
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1993 07:22:13 -0400
From: Paul Maclauchlan <[email protected]>
Subject: ***address-loop***
To: Pine Info mailing list <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9304290713.A26625-a100000@moore>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I have noticed a few of my users having difficulty sending messages due to the
sending address site being changed to the above. Instead of [email protected],
the addresses become user@***address-loop***

My mailer then tries to send the message to an external mailer.

What causes this? How can I alert my user community to the problem and what
can I tell them to look for to prevent this from happening?

--
../Paul Maclauchlan
Moore Corporation Limited, Toronto, Ontario (416) 364-2600
[email protected] -or- {...!uunet.ca,...!telly}!moore!paul
"...livin' in the city ain't where it's at..."/EJ&BT'72

From [email protected] Thu Apr 29 08:35:51 1993
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id AA06468; Thu, 29 Apr 1993 11:16:37 -0400
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1993 11:12:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: ***address-loop***
To: Paul Maclauchlan <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Info mailing list <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9304290713.A26625-a100000@moore>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

This happens because the entry in their address book they are sending
mail to has a loop in it. e.g.:

ej John, Elton dr
dr Reginald, Dwight ej

Laurence Lundblade
[email protected] or [email protected] (both forward to same place)
Blacksburg, Virginia or Seattle, Washington

On Thu, 29 Apr 1993, Paul Maclauchlan wrote:
>
> I have noticed a few of my users having difficulty sending messages due to
> the
> sending address site being changed to the above. Instead of [email protected],
> the addresses become user@***address-loop***
>
> My mailer then tries to send the message to an external mailer.
>
> What causes this? How can I alert my user community to the problem and what
> can I tell them to look for to prevent this from happening?
>
> --
> .../Paul Maclauchlan
> Moore Corporation Limited, Toronto, Ontario (416) 364-2600
> [email protected] -or- {...!uunet.ca,...!telly}!moore!paul
> "...livin' in the city ain't where it's at..."/EJ&BT'72
>
>

From [email protected] Thu Apr 29 09:25:03 1993
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Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1993 09:00:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: PC Pine via dial-up
To: Tim Brooks <[email protected]>
Cc: Rick Troth <[email protected]>, [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <"ppsw1.cam..824:29.03.93.08.09.04"@ppsw.cam.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Tim,
I've heard it said that the Eudora approach does not provide for error
checking on the serial link (presumably relying on EC in the modems).
Is this true, and if so, is there not a risk that those without
EC-capable modems (maybe even some with) could get nailed with respect to
data integrity?

-teg

On Thu, 29 Apr 1993, Tim Brooks wrote:

> The Eudora UA (Mac POP based UA) has a neat dial-up approach.
> Basically it automatically dials up and logs you onto your server then
> execs the srialpop package to which it then sends "telnet <host>
> <port>" commands. Srialpop sets up the required session and then
> transparently passes through the protocol (SMTP or POP in this case)
> "messages" between the SMTP/POP servers and the dialup UA. All you
> would need to do to extend it for IMAP2 is add in the port number to
> the list of allowed ports.
>
> Therefore there is no need to implement different protocols, just the
> modem driver and login/exec/telnet sequence.
>
> Tim Brooks
> Mail-Support(@UK.AC.Cam.UCS, @UCS.Cam.AC.UK)
>
> University of Cambridge Computing Service Tel: 0223-334709, Int: +44 223 334709
> New Museums Site Fax: 0223-334678, Int: +44 223 334678
> Pembroke Street Telex: 81240 CAMSPL G
> CAMBRIDGE E-Mail(JNT): [email protected]
> CB2 3QG United Kingdom "(Internet): [email protected]
> X.400: /I=T/S=Brooks/OU=Computing-Service/O=Cambridge/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/
>

From [email protected] Thu Apr 29 10:02:32 1993
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Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1993 12:50:35 -0400
From: Ian Lumb <[email protected]>
Subject: xpine ?
To: PINE INFO <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Greetings All:-

I'm sure that this has come up before, but ...

Is there any ongoing activity aimed at developing an X-based GUI for Pine?

Ian.

--
Ian Lumb Internet: <[email protected]>
Earth & Atmospheric Science, York University
North York, Ontario M3J 1P3, CANADA
Voice: (416) 736-5245; Fax: (416) 736-5817

From [email protected] Thu Apr 29 10:49:41 1993
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Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1993 13:36:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: Chris Maukonen <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: xpine ?
To: PINE INFO <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9304291319.Y12664-9100000@aquarius>
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I have been wondering about this too. Shure would be nice

Chris

On Thu, 29 Apr 1993, Ian Lumb wrote:

> Greetings All:-
>
> I'm sure that this has come up before, but ...
>
> Is there any ongoing activity aimed at developing an X-based GUI for Pine?
>
> Ian.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Ian Lumb Internet: <[email protected]>
> Earth & Atmospheric Science, York University
> North York, Ontario M3J 1P3, CANADA
> Voice: (416) 736-5245; Fax: (416) 736-5817
>
>

From [email protected] Thu Apr 29 09:58:01 1993
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Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1993 09:54:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sheryl Erez <[email protected]>
Subject: Can I dissable MIME encoding in pine ? (fwd)
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Seppo,

Many Pine sites in Europe have grappled with the issue of 8-bit
character sets. I'm forwarding your question to
[email protected] -- a list of Pine users and administrators
around the world. Perhaps somebody can offer suggestions for you.

Sheryl Erez
[email protected]
University of Washington Network Information Center

** Begin Forwarded Message **

Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1993 14:41:27 +0200
From: Seppo Kallio <[email protected]>
Subject: Can I dissable MIME encoding in pine ?
To: [email protected]

Hi

I have a problem: People use 8 bit code and generate MIME code in pine
mail. That is not good, the receivers of mail do not have mailers to decode
MIME code. I want to disable pine MIME code generating. How is that done?

More about the problem: In my own language there is some national letters
at the 8 bit area in ISO Latin1 and they generate 8 bit code. I want that
pine transfers 8 bit code, not 7 bit MIME.
--
+----- Seppo Kallio --------+---- [email protected] ------- Eudora mailer ----+
! Computing Centre ! Fax +358-41-603611 Phone +358-41-603606 !
! University of Jyvaskyla ! Telex 28218 JYU FI !
+------- Finland -----------+- [email protected] Mac-k{ytt{jien postiosoite +

From [email protected] Thu Apr 29 12:09:21 1993
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Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1993 13:54:01 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Jeff A. Earickson" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: xpine?
To: pine-info <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I too once asked this question. Since then, I have set up my .twmrc file
to offer pine as an option. twm just fires up an xterm window and starts
pine for me:

xterm -T pine -e pine -i &

and then I can easily slog thru my mail. I run xbiff++ to actually inform
me of new mail. An xpine interface would be nice, but what I've got now
comes close.

/*------------------------------------------------------------------------*/
/* Jeff Earickson, Cray/nCUBE/Sun Consultant|e-mail: [email protected] */
/* Alabama Supercomputer Network | Work Phone: (205) 348-3969 */
/* Boeing Computer Services | Work Fax: (205) 348-3993 */
/* Address: PO Box 870346, University of Alabama, Tuscaloosa, AL 35487 */
/* Alabama 13-0-0, 1992 National Football Champions. Roll Tide! */
/*------------------------------------------------------------------------*/

From [email protected] Thu Apr 29 13:44:53 1993
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Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1993 21:22:15 +0100 (BST)
From: Mike Roch <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: PC Pine via dial-up
To: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9304292108.A24307-a100000@suma1>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Thu, 29 Apr 1993, Terry Gray wrote:

> I've heard it said that the Eudora approach does not provide for error
> checking on the serial link (presumably relying on EC in the modems).

There's parity checking of course. I guess it would matter less with imap
than pop though; with pop you may be deleting the copy at the Unix end.

Of course without a slip/ppp host available, your mailboxes would be
_really_ safe when you're off site with a pc, a modem and pc-pine as
announced! ;^)

Mike

==============================================================================
Mike Roch, Computer Services Centre, Tel: 0734 318430
The University, Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AX. Fax: 0734 753094

From [email protected] Thu Apr 29 17:11:28 1993
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Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1993 09:55:00 +1000
To: [email protected]
From: [email protected] (Ian Hoyle)
Subject: Re: Can I dissable MIME encoding in pine ? (fwd)

>
>Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1993 14:41:27 +0200
>From: Seppo Kallio <[email protected]>
>Subject: Can I dissable MIME encoding in pine ?
>To: [email protected]
>
>Hi
>
>I have a problem: People use 8 bit code and generate MIME code in pine
>mail. That is not good, the receivers of mail do not have mailers to decode
>MIME code. I want to disable pine MIME code generating. How is that done?
>
>More about the problem: In my own language there is some national letters
>at the 8 bit area in ISO Latin1 and they generate 8 bit code. I want that
>pine transfers 8 bit code, not 7 bit MIME.

But the problem is that the SMTP protocol spec (rfc821) specifically
outlaws 8 bit ascii. There are some MTAs out there (specifically some
sendmail versions) that do handle 8 bit transmission, but the integrity
of the mail messages is not guaranteed as they pass through mail sites
on the Internet if the MTAs at those sites only handle 7 bit codes,

ian
---
/\/\ : Ian Hoyle, Senior Research Scientist
/ / /\ : Image Analysis Group
/ / / \ : BHP Research - Melbourne Laboratories
/ / / /\ \ : 245 Wellington Rd, Mulgrave, 3170, AUSTRALIA
\ \/ / / / : Phone +61-3-560-7066
\ / / / : E-mail [email protected]
\/\/\/ :
:
"If the idea of a protocol behaving like a rabid, diseased
sex-crased bunny rabbit appeals to you, AppleTalk is for
you." -- John Kennedy, comp.dcom.sys.cisco

From [email protected] Fri Apr 30 02:49:25 1993
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Fri, 30 Apr 1993 09:57:59 +0100
From: Tim Brooks <[email protected]>
To: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Cc: Rick Troth <[email protected]>, [email protected]
Subject: Re: PC Pine via dial-up
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 29 Apr 1993 09:00:55 PDT." <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1993 09:57:56 +0100
Message-Id: <"ppsw1.cam..559:30.03.93.08.58.06"@ppsw.cam.ac.uk>

teg asked:

>I've heard it said that the Eudora approach does not provide for error
>checking on the serial link (presumably relying on EC in the modems).
>Is this true, and if so, is there not a risk that those without
>EC-capable modems (maybe even some with) could get nailed with respect to
>data integrity?

This is correct and could be a problem. But it depends on what you
are trying to achieve. The benefit of the approach is that it is a
simple solution that works most of the time, which is what people
want. Most lines in the UK (at least local to us) will handle 9.6K
without problems.

We only have limited experience of using it here but people don't tend
to draw/send megabytes of encrypted GIF file across their dialup line
(especially as here in the UK you even pay for local calls), just the
plain text parts to get the gist of any messages. With the Pine/IMAP
approach the user will always be able to check out any "errors" when
they are next "back in the office", which is a lot better than the
Eudora/POP approach where the principle is that the mail is sucked
onto the client and the maildrop copy deleted.

Ideally one would use SLIP/PPP; but if you haven't got it this does
the job.

Tim

From [email protected] Fri Apr 30 05:33:10 1993
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Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1993 08:19:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: PC Pine via dial-up
To: Tim Brooks <[email protected]>
Cc: Terry Gray <[email protected]>, Rick Troth <[email protected]>,
[email protected]
In-Reply-To: <"ppsw1.cam..559:30.03.93.08.58.06"@ppsw.cam.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Reading mail is one thing. If there are error there you only see the wrong
thing, unless of course you are detaching large parts of MIME messages that
you plan to use otherwise. e.g. a lotus spread sheet. There is also the
possibility with IMAP (and POP too) that noise could result in the right
commands to delete all your mail. I suppose you could always open the
mailbox read-only.

Sending mail is another. It's possible the sent message will have
permanent errors, will not get delivered due to errors in the address, or
worst, get delivered to the wrong person.

Seems like it should be OK over EC modems, but I wouldn't trust anything
important to it otherwise.

Laurence Lundblade
[email protected] or [email protected] (both forward to same place)
Blacksburg, Virginia or Seattle, Washington

On Fri, 30 Apr 1993, Tim Brooks wrote:
>
> teg asked:
>
> >I've heard it said that the Eudora approach does not provide for error
> >checking on the serial link (presumably relying on EC in the modems).
> >Is this true, and if so, is there not a risk that those without
> >EC-capable modems (maybe even some with) could get nailed with respect to
> >data integrity?
>
> This is correct and could be a problem. But it depends on what you
> are trying to achieve. The benefit of the approach is that it is a
> simple solution that works most of the time, which is what people
> want. Most lines in the UK (at least local to us) will handle 9.6K
> without problems.
>
> We only have limited experience of using it here but people don't tend
> to draw/send megabytes of encrypted GIF file across their dialup line
> (especially as here in the UK you even pay for local calls), just the
> plain text parts to get the gist of any messages. With the Pine/IMAP
> approach the user will always be able to check out any "errors" when
> they are next "back in the office", which is a lot better than the
> Eudora/POP approach where the principle is that the mail is sucked
> onto the client and the maildrop copy deleted.
>
> Ideally one would use SLIP/PPP; but if you haven't got it this does
> the job.
>
> Tim