From [email protected]  Wed Feb 10 11:14:12 1993
Received: by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA10641; Wed, 10 Feb 93 11:14:12 -0800
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 93 11:14:12 -0800
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
From: [email protected]
Subject: Welcome to pine-info
Reply-To: [email protected]
Errors-To: [email protected]
Status: O
X-Status:

Welcome to the pine-info mailing list!

If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, send the
following command in email to "[email protected]":

   unsubscribe pine-info [email protected]

Here's the general information for the list you've subscribed to, in
case you don't already have it:

Pine-Info Mailing List
----------------------

Pine-Info is a mailing list for the email program Pine.  The mailing list
includes discussion of Pine features, bugs, tricks, etc.  Often
technical and installation questions appear on the list.  New releases,
fixes and version of Pine are announced on the pine-info mailing list.

For general information about Pine itself you can ftp the file pine.blurb
from ftp.cac.washington.edu.

Owners of this mailing list can be contacted at
[email protected].



From [email protected] Fri Jan 29 10:38:04 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17742; Fri, 29 Jan 93 10:38:04 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA23260; Fri, 29 Jan 93 10:31:37 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from csd4.csd.uwm.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA23252; Fri, 29 Jan 93 10:31:32 -0800
Received: by csd4.csd.uwm.edu; id AA22052; Fri, 29 Jan 93 12:31:27 -0600
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1993 12:29:44 -0600 (CST)
From: David A Rasmussen <[email protected]>
Subject: Novice user documentation?
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

I just sent in a request to be added to the pine mailing list, which I'm
not on yet, but I was wondering if any sites had any user documentation on
using pine, like a short descriptive session (on paper) to get in and out
of it to send and receive mail, or anything else in addition to this.

Please cc to my address if you follow this up to the group. Thanks!


Dave Rasmussen - SysAdm/Hacker/Consulting Manager, UWM Computing Svcs Div.
Internet:[email protected], Uucp:uwm!dave, Bitnet:dave%uwm.edu@INTERBIT
AT&T:414-229-5133 USmail:Box 413 EMS380,Milwaukee,WI 53201  HAM: N9REJ




From [email protected] Wed Feb  3 11:46:51 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA20307; Wed, 3 Feb 93 11:46:51 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA29322; Wed, 3 Feb 93 11:37:13 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from opus.csd.uwm.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA29316; Wed, 3 Feb 93 11:37:10 -0800
Received: by opus.csd.uwm.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3)
       id AA01422; Wed, 3 Feb 1993 13:37:06 -0600
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1993 13:37:06 -0600
From: [email protected] (Dave Rasmussen)
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Pine on a Convex?
Status: O
X-Status:

Has anyone configured pine for a convex? We have a C220 running
ConvexOS 10.0.3 which is sort of a bsdish thing with ansi c. I tried
using the BSD and the ult configurations and it looks pretty ugly in
error messages so far.



From [email protected] Wed Feb  3 20:07:55 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA03214; Wed, 3 Feb 93 20:07:55 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA03435; Wed, 3 Feb 93 19:58:26 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from sun.stats.umanitoba.ca by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA03429; Wed, 3 Feb 93 19:58:24 -0800
Received: by sun.stats.umanitoba.ca (4.1/SMI-4.1)
       id AA21157; Wed, 3 Feb 93 21:55:50 CST
From: [email protected] (Shu Kai Yeung)
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Subject: Sun3/60 installation
To: [email protected] (pine information)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1993 21:55:49 -0600 (CST)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20]
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 293
Status: O
X-Status:

I am in the process of installing the new version of pine
on our Sun3/60 machine running SunOS4.1. I got compilation
error. Would someone suggest modifications so that I can
put new one in the system.
We had an old version which has no problem on compilation
I must have missed something.


From [email protected] Thu Feb  4 06:26:54 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA11128; Thu, 4 Feb 93 06:26:54 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA07823; Thu, 4 Feb 93 06:19:17 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from research1.bryant.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA07817; Thu, 4 Feb 93 06:19:14 -0800
Received: by research1.bryant.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3)
       id AA10341; Thu, 4 Feb 1993 09:13:57 -0500
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1993 09:10:37 -0500 (EST)
From: Stephen Frazier <[email protected]>
Subject: Is this possible?
To: pine-info <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

One of our professors, Crystal Packer, forwarded the following message to
me.  She said that it was sent to her from one of her students... but Crystal
Packer's userid appears in both the "From:" and "To:" fields.  Is this
possible?

Steve
<[email protected]>


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 10:43:43 -0500 (EST)
From: Crystal Packer <[email protected]>
To: Crystal Packer <[email protected]>
Subject: Hi

Alright we are trying this again. Lets hope that this works.







From [email protected] Thu Feb  4 09:42:13 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA15473; Thu, 4 Feb 93 09:42:13 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA09366; Thu, 4 Feb 93 09:34:18 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from noc.sura.net by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA09360; Thu, 4 Feb 93 09:34:16 -0800
Received: from nalusda.gov by noc.sura.net with SMTP
for [email protected]
(5.65b/(SURAnet $Revision: 1.29 $)) id AA05110; Thu, 4 Feb 93 12:34:03 -0500
Received: by nalusda.gov (4.1/SMI-4.1)
       id AA08029; Thu, 4 Feb 93 12:34:10 EST
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1993 12:34:09 -0500 (EST)
From: Greg Dobrich <[email protected]>
Subject: viewing long headers
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Status: O
X-Status:



Hi folks,

Is there a way to view unshortened mail headers within Pine?

Thanks,

Greg

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
+     Greg Dobrich                          National Agricultural Library     +
+     [email protected]                  Information Systems Division      +
+     301/504-6813                          Beltsville, MD 20705              +
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+




From [email protected] Thu Feb  4 14:21:55 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22275; Thu, 4 Feb 93 14:21:55 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA09673; Thu, 4 Feb 93 14:07:54 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from [134.174.99.10] by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA09667; Thu, 4 Feb 93 14:07:52 -0800
Received: by columbus.bwh.harvard.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1)
       id AA03556; Thu, 4 Feb 93 17:07:49 EST
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1993 17:05:03 -0500 (EST)
From: "Peter W. Karlson" <[email protected]>
Subject: ^C on a Mac
To: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9302041702.C2192-8100000@columbus>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

I know I've heard about this before but I need to ask again, is there a
problem using NCSA telnet on a Mac and trying to cancel a message using
control C??

Thanks

-pk





From [email protected] Fri Feb  5 06:05:09 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA07937; Fri, 5 Feb 93 06:05:09 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA14552; Fri, 5 Feb 93 05:55:48 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from starburst.umd.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA14546; Fri, 5 Feb 93 05:55:46 -0800
Received: by starburst.umd.edu (NeXT-1.0 (From Sendmail 5.52)/NeXT-2.0)
       id AA02309; Fri, 5 Feb 93 08:54:02 EST
From: [email protected] (Jonathan Kruger)
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Subject: Problem using MIME attachments
To: [email protected]
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 93 8:54:01 EST
Organization: Chesapeake Biological Laboratory
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Status: O
X-Status:

Why is it that when I send a NeXT WordPerfect document or a .GIF file
as a MIME attachment it works, but if I send a WP5.1 or .TIFF file the
attachment only contains a few bytes like "II*" and nothing else?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     Jonathan Kruger          "If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier
  [email protected]        about cutting them down?  We might, if they
Chesapeake Biological Lab      screamed all the time, for no good reason."


From [email protected] Fri Feb  5 06:48:06 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA08400; Fri, 5 Feb 93 06:48:06 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA16842; Fri, 5 Feb 93 06:36:58 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from research1.bryant.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA16836; Fri, 5 Feb 93 06:36:56 -0800
Received: by research1.bryant.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3)
       id AA00297; Fri, 5 Feb 1993 09:31:37 -0500
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1993 09:30:48 -0500 (EST)
From: "Stephen L. Frazier" <[email protected]>
Subject: Problem using MIME attachments (fwd)
To: pine-info <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

I've encountered similar problems on DEC 5000 systems.

Steve
<[email protected]>


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 93 8:54:01 EST
From: Jonathan Kruger <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Problem using MIME attachments

Why is it that when I send a NeXT WordPerfect document or a .GIF file
as a MIME attachment it works, but if I send a WP5.1 or .TIFF file the
attachment only contains a few bytes like "II*" and nothing else?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     Jonathan Kruger          "If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier
  [email protected]        about cutting them down?  We might, if they
Chesapeake Biological Lab      screamed all the time, for no good reason."



From [email protected] Mon Feb  8 12:31:58 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA16146; Mon, 8 Feb 93 12:31:58 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA07732; Mon, 8 Feb 93 12:19:14 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from uu3.psi.com by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA07726; Mon, 8 Feb 93 12:19:12 -0800
Received: from tsh.UUCP by uu3.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.071791-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP;
       id AA24456 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 93 15:07:27 -0500
From: [email protected] (Frank Mostek)
Received: by tsh.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/3.1.090690-The Systems House)
       id AA32745; Mon, 8 Feb 1993 13:21:42 -0600
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: ADDS VP emulation (fwd), anyone?
To: [email protected]
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 93 13:21:41 CST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Status: O
X-Status:

Has anyone succeeded in ADDS VP emulation with the pico editor? :

Forwarded message:
>From uucp Sat Feb  6 20:26:37 1993
>Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1993 21:10:13 -0500 (EST)
>From: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: ADDS VP emulation
>To: Frank Mostek <[email protected]>
>Cc: [email protected]
>In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
>Message-Id: <[email protected]>
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
>Ooo, yucky terminals that do that. You can never get is working completely
>I think. Some one has fixed things up for this, but I can't remember who.
>You might try asking on [email protected].
>
>LL
>
>On Fri, 5 Feb 1993, Frank Mostek wrote:
>
>> We have just downloaded pine3.05 and installed on our RS6000 running
>> AIX 3.2.something with very few problems.  Good job!  It works great,
>> however.... ( I love that word :-)
>> Several people in our company have/use ADDS VP (viewpoint) terminal
>> emulation.  Unfortunately, viewpoints do not generate [ESC] sequence with
>> the arrow keys, HOME, etc....   For example, up arrow generates a ^Z,
>> down arrow is ^J, etc....  Pico assumes that these keys begin with [ESC]
>> (estruct.h:#define METACH  0x1B                    /* M- prefix,   Control-[, ESC  */
>> Before I go hacking away, I want to see if you knew about this and had
>> an easy fix.
>> Thanx for any help
>> --
>>  ______ ______          Frank Mostek              ([email protected])
>>    /   /       /    /   Technology Consultant     (708)390-6300
>>   /   /_____  /____/    The Systems House, Inc    Fax: (708)803-4306
>>  /         / /    /     10500 Lunt Avenue
>> /    _____/ /    /      Rosemont,  IL 60018


From [email protected] Mon Feb  8 15:46:33 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22174; Mon, 8 Feb 93 15:46:33 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA09832; Mon, 8 Feb 93 15:39:31 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from nhmpw2.fnal.gov by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA09826; Mon, 8 Feb 93 15:39:28 -0800
Received: by nhmpw2.fnal.gov id AA06347
 (5.65c+/IDA-1.4.4 for [email protected]); Mon, 8 Feb 1993 17:38:50 -0600
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1993 17:38:50 -0600
From: "David E. Martin" <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Message ID
Cc: [email protected], [email protected]
Status: O
X-Status:

I'm having a problem with the Message-ID: header line.  Message IDs
should have the form
Message-Id: <[email protected]>

but since I have my Sun hosts yp database set up as
..
131.225.40.41   nhmpw2 nhmpw2.hep.net
..

I get
Message-Id: <Pine.3.03.9302081747.A5911-5100000@nhmpw2>

I have
user-domain=hep.net
in my pine.conf file, but it seems to be ignored when constructing
message IDs.

I have temporarily fixed the problem by re-ordering the entries
in the hosts yp database to be
..
131.225.40.41   nhmpw2.hep.net nhmpw2
..

but this breaks other things, like bootparams, which now seems to
demand entries have fully qualified domain names.

Any ideas?


David E. Martin
National HEPnet Management                      ||    Phone: +1 708 840-8275
Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory           ||    FAX: +1 708 840-8463
P.O. Box 500, MS 368; Batavia, IL 60510  USA   /  \   E-Mail: [email protected]


From [email protected] Tue Feb  9 12:24:38 1993
Received: by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA14032; Tue, 9 Feb 93 12:24:38 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from techbook.TECHBOOK.COM by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA14026; Tue, 9 Feb 93 12:24:35 -0800
Received: by techbook.techbook.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.1)
       id <[email protected]>; Tue, 9 Feb 93 12:24 PST
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
From: [email protected] (Mike Scheuerman)
Subject: Global Address books
To: [email protected]
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1993 12:23:57 -0800 (PST)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL12]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1093
Status: O
X-Status:

We are just installing Pine and most of our users are novices and so
are having a problem with building and maintaining their address books.
Has anyone come up with a solution that allows someone to access a
global address book as well as a personal addressbook?

Part of the problem we have here is that we have people scattered
geographically around the country and as they come online, they're
not aware of the other users that are on the system already.  We've
discussed putting together a shell script that would run around and
fix up everybody's addressbook as we put new people on the system, but
that seems like a pain.  The other idea is to send a message to everyon
telling them that a new set of users has been added, but then some won't
update their address book and we'll be right back where we started from.
Over time the problem will get worse as people come and go.

The documentation that I've read on Pine says that it doesn't support
a global address book, but there's got to be a way to keep people up
to date on who they can mail to.

Any suggestions?

Mike Scheuerman


From [email protected] Tue Feb  9 21:50:56 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA26329; Tue, 9 Feb 93 21:50:56 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA19287; Tue, 9 Feb 93 21:41:10 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from nexus.yorku.ca by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA19281; Tue, 9 Feb 93 21:41:08 -0800
Received: from vortex.yorku.ca ([130.63.232.15]) by nexus.yorku.ca with SMTP id <9225>; Wed, 10 Feb 1993 00:41:00 -0500
Received: by vortex.yorku.ca (4.1/SMI-4.1)
       id AA03501; Wed, 10 Feb 93 00:42:44 EST
Date:   Wed, 10 Feb 1993 00:41:45 -0500
From: Ian Lumb <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Global Address books
To: PINE INFO <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

This is a terrific idea Mike, that I'd also like to see added/kludged into
pine.

Ian.




--
Ian Lumb     Internet: <[email protected]>
Earth & Atmospheric Science, York University
North York, Ontario  M3J 1P3,  CANADA
Voice: (416) 736-5245; Fax: (416) 736-5817




From [email protected] Wed Feb 10 02:06:50 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA00120; Wed, 10 Feb 93 02:06:50 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA23363; Wed, 10 Feb 93 01:57:01 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA23357; Wed, 10 Feb 93 01:56:58 -0800
Received: by inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com; id AA09312; Wed, 10 Feb 93 01:56:47 -0800
Received: by vbohub.vbo.dec.com.vbo.dec.com (5.65/fma-100391);
       id AA08211; Wed, 10 Feb 1993 10:56:40 +0100
Received: by nova15.vbo.dec.com (5.57/fma-100391);
       id AA01369; Wed, 10 Feb 93 10:58:44 +0100
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 93 10:58:44 +0100
From: [email protected] (Francois Donze)
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: can't send mails anymore
Cc: [email protected]
Status: O
X-Status:



I am running pine on Ultrix and something very strange happenned:

I don't know why but the Suid and Sgid bits of /usr/bin/mail and
/usr/ucb/mail disappeared and I could not receive any mail nor
send any.

I chmoded them back to 6755 and now I can receive mails and send
mails using /usr/ucb/mail but if I send a mail through pine,
pine says "mail sent" and I get the following message in
/usr/spool/mqueue/syslog and  the mail is lost:

Feb 10 09:30:36 localhost: 1300 sendmail: NOQUEUE: SYSERR: queuename: Cannot
create "qf~Z01300" in "/usr/spool/mqueue": No such file or directory

Of course, /usr/spool/mqueue exists ....

I think that there is a bad protection somewhere. I checked /usr/spool/mail
which is drwxrwxrwt.


Any idea?
/francois


From [email protected] Wed Feb 10 02:18:56 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA00258; Wed, 10 Feb 93 02:18:56 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA23443; Wed, 10 Feb 93 02:13:03 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from mts-gw.pa.dec.com by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA23437; Wed, 10 Feb 93 02:12:22 -0800
Received: by mts-gw.pa.dec.com; id AA03401; Wed, 10 Feb 93 02:10:34 -0800
Received: by vbohub.vbo.dec.com.vbo.dec.com (5.65/fma-100391);
       id AA08229; Wed, 10 Feb 1993 11:07:46 +0100
Received: by nova15.vbo.dec.com (5.57/fma-100391);
       id AA01407; Wed, 10 Feb 93 11:09:50 +0100
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1993 11:08:02 +0100 (French Winter)
From: Francois Donze <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: can't send mails anymore
To: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: (null)
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:


I got it: The sendmail program lost its suid bit as well .....

It seems to work now.

/francois



From [email protected] Wed Feb 10 09:43:32 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA07518; Wed, 10 Feb 93 09:43:32 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA26238; Wed, 10 Feb 93 09:32:45 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from noc.sura.net by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA26232; Wed, 10 Feb 93 09:32:44 -0800
Received: from nalusda.gov by noc.sura.net with SMTP
for [email protected]
(5.65b/(SURAnet $Revision: 1.29 $)) id AA03339; Wed, 10 Feb 93 12:32:42 -0500
Received: by nalusda.gov (4.1/SMI-4.1)
       id AA23203; Wed, 10 Feb 93 12:32:50 EST
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1993 12:28:53 -0500 (EST)
From: Bill Feidt <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Global Address books
To: PINE INFO <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

I believe that option 1 would be of significant value to our
organization.  If tying it to option 2 keeps it lower on the
"TuIt" list, then I'd vote for divide and conquer.

*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*
|  Bill Feidt                   |  National Agricultural Library  |
|  [email protected]           |  Information Systems Division   |
|  301/504-6813                 |  Beltsville, MD 20705           |
*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*


On Wed, 10 Feb 1993, Terry Gray wrote:

> Ian and Mike,
> Some form of shared address book is definitely on the enhancement list...
> We just need someone to give us one of those "Round TuIt" things :)
>
> One question is whether this should be a simple extension to the personal
> address book (but searched *after* the personal one, or whether it should
> be an interface to whois/x.500/etc, or are both mechanisms desirable?  I
> suspect the answer is "both", but comments are welcome.  (Obviously the
> former is easier than the latter and would therefore be likely to appear
> sooner!)





From [email protected] Wed Feb 10 10:07:05 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA08428; Wed, 10 Feb 93 10:07:05 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22827; Wed, 10 Feb 93 09:44:26 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from nexus.yorku.ca by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22821; Wed, 10 Feb 93 09:44:23 -0800
Received: from vortex.yorku.ca ([130.63.232.15]) by nexus.yorku.ca with SMTP id <9225>; Wed, 10 Feb 1993 12:44:20 -0500
Received: by vortex.yorku.ca (4.1/SMI-4.1)
       id AA04307; Wed, 10 Feb 93 12:45:57 EST
Date:   Wed, 10 Feb 1993 12:34:21 -0500
From: Ian Lumb <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Global Address books
To: PINE INFO <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

Thanks for your response Terry. I'm pleased to hear that this is indeed a
consideration for a future upgrade of pine.

It is indeed desireable to have a global address book, that is simply an
extension of the personal address book, but would be maintained by the
local pine god. Ideally, your implementation would allow for
cross-checking to avoid unwanted duplication.

Since pine has already set a high networking standard by its
implementation of imap, I would love to see this carried through in the
form of your suggestion to use 'whois/x.500/etc'.

It would be nice to see the first addition to a upcoming release of pine
in the 'short term', but the fully networked version would be an exciting
addition in the long-term.

Ian.

--
Ian Lumb     Internet: <[email protected]>
Earth & Atmospheric Science, York University
North York, Ontario  M3J 1P3,  CANADA
Voice: (416) 736-5245; Fax: (416) 736-5817


On Wed, 10 Feb 1993, Terry Gray wrote:

> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1993 08:05:21 -0800 (PST)
> From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
> To: Ian Lumb <[email protected]>
> Cc: PINE INFO <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: Global Address books
>
> Ian and Mike,
> Some form of shared address book is definitely on the enhancement list...
> We just need someone to give us one of those "Round TuIt" things :)
>
> One question is whether this should be a simple extension to the personal
> address book (but searched *after* the personal one, or whether it should
> be an interface to whois/x.500/etc, or are both mechanisms desirable?  I
> suspect the answer is "both", but comments are welcome.  (Obviously the
> former is easier than the latter and would therefore be likely to appear
> sooner!)
>
> -teg
>
>
> On Wed, 10 Feb 1993, Ian Lumb wrote:
>
> > This is a terrific idea Mike, that I'd also like to see added/kludged into
> > pine.
> >
> > Ian.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Ian Lumb     Internet: <[email protected]>
> > Earth & Atmospheric Science, York University
> > North York, Ontario  M3J 1P3,  CANADA
> > Voice: (416) 736-5245; Fax: (416) 736-5817
> >
> >
>
>
>





From [email protected] Wed Feb  3 13:46:24 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA23664; Wed, 3 Feb 93 13:46:24 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA02321; Wed, 3 Feb 93 13:37:36 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA02315; Wed, 3 Feb 93 13:37:35 -0800
Received: from Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM by Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU
       (NX5.67c/UW-NDC Revision: 2.26 ) id AA02953; Wed, 3 Feb 93 13:37:29 -0800
Received: from localhost by Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM
       (NX5.67c/UW-NDC/Panda Revision: 2.27.MRC ) id AA14378; Wed, 3 Feb 93 13:37:21 -0800
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1993 13:36:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Subject: re: Pine on a Convex?
To: Dave Rasmussen <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

If the Convex has an ANSI C compiler, try the NeXT, AIX, or A32 configurations
and see if any of those get you any closer.



From [email protected] Thu Feb  4 01:00:16 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA06897; Thu, 4 Feb 93 01:00:16 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA06245; Thu, 4 Feb 93 00:53:16 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from convex.csc.fi by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA06239; Thu, 4 Feb 93 00:53:13 -0800
Received: from tellus.csc.fi.csc.fi (tellus.csc.fi) by csc.fi with SMTP id AA24774
 (5.65c8+/IDA-1.4.4 for <[email protected]>); Thu, 4 Feb 1993 10:53:31 +0200
Received: from localhost.csc.fi by tellus.csc.fi.csc.fi (4.1/SMI-4.1)
       id AA00627; Thu, 4 Feb 93 10:53:06 +0200
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
To: [email protected] (Dave Rasmussen)
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Pine on a Convex?
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 03 Feb 1993 13:37:06 CST."
            <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1993 10:53:04 +0200
From: Pekka Kytolaakso <[email protected]>
Status: O
X-Status:

Your message dated: Wed, 03 Feb 1993 13:37:06 CST
> Has anyone configured pine for a convex? We have a C220 running
> ConvexOS 10.0.3 which is sort of a bsdish thing with ansi c. I tried
> using the BSD and the ult configurations and it looks pretty ugly in
> error messages so far.

I sent my convex patches to the development team and they should be in
the next pine version.

My port is available on nic.funet.fi:/pub/unix/convex/pine3.05.tar.Z.
It's configured to work like elm (folders are in ~/Mail/, several folder
name changes). To compile it use './build bsd'.

Pekka Kyt|laakso
---------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected]     Centre for Scientific Computing
[email protected]  PL 40   SF-02101 Espoo FINLAND
Phone: +358 0 4571       Telefax: + 358 0 4572302


From [email protected] Thu Feb  4 10:02:13 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA15867; Thu, 4 Feb 93 10:02:13 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA09535; Thu, 4 Feb 93 09:54:15 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from rainier.lib.washington.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA09529; Thu, 4 Feb 93 09:54:14 -0800
Received: by rainier.lib.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.24 ) id AA08000; Thu, 4 Feb 93 09:54:11 -0800
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1993 09:52:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Adam Garrett <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: viewing long headers
To: Greg Dobrich <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

Yes, change the line in your .pinerc like this:

# "seedling", "sapling" or "old-growth" for novice, intermediate and advanced
feature-level=old-growth

Type 'h' while reading messages to toggle full header on or off.  :-)

Adam R. Garrett
University of Washington Libraries     INTERNET: [email protected]
352 Suzzallo Library, FM-25            PHONE:    (206) 543-8843
Seattle, WA  98195                     FAX:      (206) 685-8049

On Thu, 4 Feb 1993, Greg Dobrich wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> Is there a way to view unshortened mail headers within Pine?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Greg
>
> +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
> +     Greg Dobrich                          National Agricultural Library     +
> +     [email protected]                  Information Systems Division      +
> +     301/504-6813                          Beltsville, MD 20705              +
> +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+




From [email protected] Thu Feb  4 10:32:49 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA16589; Thu, 4 Feb 93 10:32:49 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA07802; Thu, 4 Feb 93 10:25:59 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from camelot.bradley.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA07796; Thu, 4 Feb 93 10:25:56 -0800
Received: by camelot.bradley.edu id AA11738
 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for [email protected]); Thu, 4 Feb 1993 12:25:54 -0600
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1993 12:25:52 -0500 (CDT)
From: Matt Simmons <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Matt Simmons <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: viewing long headers
To: Greg Dobrich <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

On Thu, 4 Feb 1993, Greg Dobrich wrote:

> Hi folks,
> Is there a way to view unshortened mail headers within Pine?
Put old-growth as the user level in your .pinerc file, and type 'h' while
viewing the message....






From [email protected] Thu Feb  4 11:25:39 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17948; Thu, 4 Feb 93 11:25:39 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA10320; Thu, 4 Feb 93 11:15:57 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from noc.sura.net by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA10314; Thu, 4 Feb 93 11:15:55 -0800
Received: from nalusda.gov by noc.sura.net with SMTP
for [email protected]
(5.65b/(SURAnet $Revision: 1.29 $)) id AA06328; Thu, 4 Feb 93 14:15:54 -0500
Received: by nalusda.gov (4.1/SMI-4.1)
       id AA08369; Thu, 4 Feb 93 14:16:06 EST
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1993 14:16:05 -0500 (EST)
From: Greg Dobrich <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Greg Dobrich <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: viewing long headers
To: Adam Garrett <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Status: O
X-Status:


Adam,

What version of Pine supports the feature-level entry?

Thanks,

Greg
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
+     Greg Dobrich                          National Agricultural Library     +
+     [email protected]                  Information Systems Division      +
+     301/504-6813                          Beltsville, MD 20705              +
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+


From [email protected] Thu Feb  4 20:20:40 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA00227; Thu, 4 Feb 93 20:20:40 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA14318; Thu, 4 Feb 93 20:13:59 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from csgrad.cs.vt.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA14312; Thu, 4 Feb 93 20:13:57 -0800
Received: by csgrad.cs.vt.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3)
       id AA28690; Thu, 4 Feb 1993 23:13:46 -0500
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1993 23:13:12 -0500 (EST)
From: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: ^C on a Mac
To: "Peter W. Karlson" <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9302041702.C2192-8100000@columbus>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

The way around this problem is described in the help text off the main
menu under frequently asked questions. I've tacked it on the end here.

LL



Page 8
     5. If ^C Doesn't Work on a Mac

There's a problem with the default configuration of the Macintosh version
of NCSA telnet which prevents Control-Cs from reaching Pine.  Under the
"session menu", select "setup keys". There's you'll see an entry for ^C.
You should make sure it's blank. If it's not, ^C won't work in Pine.
This will fix it just for the current session. To make it permanent
you have to edit the configuration file. You should add a line:

       localkeys=[0,19,17]  (but use curly braces instead of [])

somewhere after the line that contains "name=default".  Also, on
VersaTerm Pro a similar problem occurs where ^C causes a break to be
sent on the modem or serial line.




On Thu, 4 Feb 1993, Peter W. Karlson wrote:

> I know I've heard about this before but I need to ask again, is there a
> problem using NCSA telnet on a Mac and trying to cancel a message using
> control C??
>
> Thanks
>
> -pk
>
>
>







From [email protected] Fri Feb  5 07:18:11 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA09135; Fri, 5 Feb 93 07:18:11 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17012; Fri, 5 Feb 93 07:12:06 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from EMPIRE.CCE.CORNELL.EDU by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17006; Fri, 5 Feb 93 07:12:04 -0800
Received: by cce.cornell.edu (Smail3.1.28.1 #4)
       id m0nKUiu-0001NeC; Fri, 5 Feb 93 10:12 EST
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1993 10:05:51 -0500 (EST)
From: Ron Pool <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Problem using MIME attachments
To: Jonathan Kruger <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

On Fri, 5 Feb 1993, Jonathan Kruger wrote:
> Why is it that when I send a NeXT WordPerfect document or a .GIF file
> as a MIME attachment it works, but if I send a WP5.1 or .TIFF file the
> attachment only contains a few bytes like "II*" and nothing else?

We just noticed this happen with a DOS WordPerfect 5.1 document here
yesterday.  I looked into why it was happening and decided that
file_type() in pine/send.c was deciding it was quotable-text, when it
wasn't.  I'm not sure why, but for us encoding all enclosures as base64
works, so I replaced the call to file_type() with an assignment to the
value IsBinary.  This is a bad fix as it means some files that could have
been directly viewable with MIME tools now won't be, but we had a couple
of users who really needed to get going.

I did notice while reading send.c that there are special checks for
certain file types that just look for a signature of just a few characters at
the beginning of a file to determine file type.  This allows pine to
recognize some certain files (GIF and TIFF in particular), but it's
certainly possible for files to be recognized as being of a certain
type when they're really not of that type.
--
Ron Pool; Electronic Technology Group; B-15 Wing Hall; Ithaca, NY 14853
Internet: [email protected]




From [email protected] Fri Feb  5 11:45:55 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA15806; Fri, 5 Feb 93 11:45:55 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17181; Fri, 5 Feb 93 11:35:33 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from shiva1.cac.washington.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17175; Fri, 5 Feb 93 11:35:32 -0800
Received: by shiva1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA00924; Fri, 5 Feb 93 11:35:30 -0800
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1993 10:21:48 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Problem using MIME attachments
To: Ron Pool <[email protected]>
Cc: Ned Freed <[email protected]>,
       Nathaniel Borenstein <[email protected]>,
       [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

Ron et al,
This is a really important issue, and one we've been wrestling with for
some months.  (In fact, I've taken the liberty of CCing the MIME authors
in case they wish to comment.)

Putting aside for the moment the possibility that there may still be bugs
in either Pine's base64 or quoted-printable encoding/decoding routines, the
design problem is: when to use b64 encoding and when to use q-p encoding.

The issues:

 -Above all else, the integrity of MIME attachments must be preserved.
  That is, MIME is a failure if people can't have certainty that the
  MIME-attached bits will be delivered intact.  This would argue for
  using B64 encoding all the time.  (You don't want q-p newline
  translation to occur on something that wasn't really a text file.)

 -At odds with the above is the fact that text line delimiters differ from
  one system to the next, and if you know you are dealing with a text
  file, it would be nice if the system would handle newline translation
  automatically.  This argues for using q-p whenever you think you have
  a text file.  (If b64 was used for text, the destination system might
  have trouble reading the text, if the nl conventions were different.
  The translation couldn't be automated because the MIME typing doesn't
  currently differentiate text files by originating OS.)

 -If you think you have a text file, q-p is also desirable because it
  is semi-readable by non-MIME mail readers.

 -One lesson of FTP is that we don't want a system where the user has
  to explicitly declare the type of file and therefore the encoding type.
  (That's not to preclude the possibility of override, but in general,
  we don't want people to have to say the equivalent of "binary" or "type
  image" in order to guarantee correct delivery.  I've seen too many
  help desk problems from getting this wrong; I've even heard the claim
  that you can't reliably send binary data on the Internet, presumably
  because of ftp mode ignorance!!)

 -The behavior (choice of encoding) should be predictable.

So one problem is how to decide whether or not you really have a text file.
One can define a text file to be a file that only uses certain bit
patterns within the character space, but to be certain you must scan the
entire file.  But that's inefficient, so right now Pine looks at the first
chunk and tries to make the right decision.

It would appear that the current test is not sufficiently conservative,
and may also fail the predictability goal.  Some Unix systems have a very
sophisticated "file" program that could help, but others are less
sophisticated, and DOS users may have nothing of the kind.  So what is the
minimum acceptable test for "text-ness"?

Of if efficiency concerns imply that there will always be some uncertainty
in the correctness of the encoding decision --a bad thing-- should we
consider defining subtypes text/mac, text/dos, text/unix so b64 could be
used in all cases, and the mail *reader* could do the appropriate newline
translation, if any was needed?   (This assumes that everyone will soon
have MIME-capable mail readers available, which is arguable, but perhaps
not that unreasonable a premise if it would improve the certainty that
MIME attachments are reliable.)

Comments/suggestions are welcome.

-teg



On Fri, 5 Feb 1993, Ron Pool wrote:

> On Fri, 5 Feb 1993, Jonathan Kruger wrote:
> > Why is it that when I send a NeXT WordPerfect document or a .GIF file
> > as a MIME attachment it works, but if I send a WP5.1 or .TIFF file the
> > attachment only contains a few bytes like "II*" and nothing else?
>
> We just noticed this happen with a DOS WordPerfect 5.1 document here
> yesterday.  I looked into why it was happening and decided that
> file_type() in pine/send.c was deciding it was quotable-text, when it
> wasn't.  I'm not sure why, but for us encoding all enclosures as base64
> works, so I replaced the call to file_type() with an assignment to the
> value IsBinary.  This is a bad fix as it means some files that could have
> been directly viewable with MIME tools now won't be, but we had a couple
> of users who really needed to get going.
>
> I did notice while reading send.c that there are special checks for
> certain file types that just look for a signature of just a few characters at
> the beginning of a file to determine file type.  This allows pine to
> recognize some certain files (GIF and TIFF in particular), but it's
> certainly possible for files to be recognized as being of a certain
> type when they're really not of that type.
> --
> Ron Pool; Electronic Technology Group; B-15 Wing Hall; Ithaca, NY 14853
> Internet: [email protected]
>
>





From [email protected] Fri Feb  5 12:43:58 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17414; Fri, 5 Feb 93 12:43:58 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17683; Fri, 5 Feb 93 12:28:13 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from thumper.bellcore.com by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17677; Fri, 5 Feb 93 12:28:10 -0800
Received: from greenbush.bellcore.com by thumper.bellcore.com (4.1/4.7)
       id <AA03929> for [email protected]; Fri, 5 Feb 93 15:28:07 EST
Received: by greenbush.bellcore.com (4.1/4.7)
       id <AA02876> for [email protected]; Fri, 5 Feb 93 15:28:06 EST
Received: from Messages.8.5.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.greenbush.galaxy.sun4.41
         via MS.5.6.greenbush.galaxy.sun4_41;
         Fri,  5 Feb 1993 15:28:04 -0500 (EST)
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Date: Fri,  5 Feb 1993 15:28:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Nathaniel Borenstein <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
To: Ron Pool <[email protected]>, Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Problem using MIME attachments
Cc: Ned Freed <[email protected]>, [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Status: O
X-Status:

Excerpts from mail: 5-Feb-93 Re: Problem using MIME atta.. Terry
[email protected] (4704*)

>  (If b64 was used for text, the destination system might
>    have trouble reading the text, if the nl conventions were different.
>    The translation couldn't be automated because the MIME typing doesn't
>    currently differentiate text files by originating OS.)

Actually, a scrupulously correct MIME implementation shouldn't have this
trouble, because MIME says that text should be converted to CRLF form
before it goes into base64; however, I anticipate that many folks will
have trouble getting this detail right.

>   -If you think you have a text file, q-p is also desirable because it
>    is semi-readable by non-MIME mail readers.

Yes, that's another good reason not to use base64 for text.

> Of if efficiency concerns imply that there will always be some uncertainty
> in the correctness of the encoding decision --a bad thing-- should we
> consider defining subtypes text/mac, text/dos, text/unix so b64 could be
> used in all cases, and the mail *reader* could do the appropriate newline
> translation, if any was needed?

I think that's a bad idea; if you're going to put text in base64, you
should simply convert to CRLF conventions.  It's tricky to understand
the necessity of this, perhaps, but simple to implement.

Just my two cents....  -- Nathaniel







From [email protected] Fri Feb  5 14:17:14 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA19725; Fri, 5 Feb 93 14:17:14 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA20806; Fri, 5 Feb 93 14:10:28 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA20800; Fri, 5 Feb 93 14:10:26 -0800
Received: from Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM by Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU
       (NX5.67c/UW-NDC Revision: 2.26 ) id AA05902; Fri, 5 Feb 93 14:10:17 -0800
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1993 13:51:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Problem using MIME attachments
To: Nathaniel Borenstein <[email protected]>
Cc: Ron Pool <[email protected]>, Terry Gray <[email protected]>,
       Ned Freed <[email protected]>, [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

It's important to realize that there are two separate issues here:
1) determining the difference between text and binary
2) choosing between quoted-printable and base64

I will contend that the (2) choice is one of esthetics.  Quoted-printable is
quite capable of carrying arbitrary binary.  However, to make this choice
intelligently, you have to be able to do (1).

My NeXT MailManager application punts on both of these, and just transmits
everything as binary files.  This has the newline problem that Terry noted,
although it's not as serious as it might be since it's tagged as binary (there
is a MailManager bug in that it fails to do newline conversions when
unattaching segments declared as text).

The kludge suggested for Pine would make Pine do what MailManager does with
attaching (but not have the MailManager bug).  It certainly seems to be what's
needed to get your users back on the air.

The behavior you've reported with damaged attachments is *definitely* a bug,
and we'll look into it.  Either there is something wrong with c-client's
quoted-printable encoder, or Pine may be doing something wrong with preparing
the data for encoding.  Either way, we'll fix it.



From [email protected] Sat Feb  6 18:13:12 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA13431; Sat, 6 Feb 93 18:13:12 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA25396; Sat, 6 Feb 93 18:01:57 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from csgrad.cs.vt.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA25390; Sat, 6 Feb 93 18:01:53 -0800
Received: by csgrad.cs.vt.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3)
       id AA18392; Sat, 6 Feb 1993 21:01:46 -0500
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1993 20:24:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Problem using MIME attachments
To: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Cc: Ron Pool <[email protected]>, Ned Freed <[email protected]>,
       Nathaniel Borenstein <[email protected]>,
       [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

First a couple of points:

* If you follow the MIME canonical MIME encoding model as Nathaniel suggests
and first convert to CRLF and then B64 you have to make sure the body part
is tagged as text so the client knows to convert to the local end of line
convention. (This is related to other MIME discussions about what type to
use for an attached text file text/xxxx or application/o-s, or a newly
defined type). If you don't B64 encode it you let the mail transport
(sendmail in the case of UNIX) do the end of line conversion. This is what
Pine does now.

* Pine actually reads the whole file to make it's determination as to
whether it's text or not. If it has lines over some limit long or
more than 10% characters with the 8th bit on it concludes the file is
binary. (It has to allow for ISO-8859-1 text which might have a few 8 bit
characters).

I believe the bug in question here may be because the files have NULLs in
them and the above test for binary fails for the NULL character -- if it
has NULLs it should be binary. Then Pine tries to treat them as strings
and of course they wind up a lot shorter than they ought to. I believe this
is fixed in an unreleased version of Pine.

I'm trying to remember exactly what the reliability problem of q-p
encoding is. I know one problem is going through an EBCDIC gateway, but I
can't think of any other. A file attachment that is text with some
non-EBCDIC characters will be corrupted as it goes through the gateway.

It seems to me we have three choices now:

  1 Encoding everything in B64 including text attachments tag as text/plain
     + Increased reliability
     - Loss distinction between message text parts and text attachments
     - Loss of readability of text attachments by non MIME users

  2 Encode text with q-p and tag as application/o-s (Current Pine)
     + Readability for non-MIME folks
     - Less reliable

  3 Create a text/file subtype for file attachments and B64 them
     + Increased reliability
     - Loss of readability for non-MIME folks

I've assumed that not handling the end of line conversion is not an option.
Three is the best if you don't worry about non-MIME folks. It is reliable
and distinguishes file attachments from text parts of the message, but it
will require an extension to MIME.

At this point I feel I'm sort of lacking data to decide which is best.
What are the relative risks and importance of:

  - Is the reliability of B64 or q-p encoding really substantial?
    What is the real risk here? How many EBCDIC gateways are there?

  - How important readability for non-MIME folks?

  - How important is it to distinguish text parts from text attachments

We can eliminate the third trade off with a new MIME type, but we have to
choose between the other two. Personally in Pine I often will use a MIME
attachment for a text file while sending to someone without MIME because I
know they can read it, and then if they do have MIME we're encouraging
it's use. I'm also skeptical that there are that many reliability problems
with q-p encoding, though I'd certainly like to hear about them. How many
EBCDIC gateways are there, and what other problems are there?

Lastly, it is often nice to display attachments when the user requests.
Right now if the type is application/o-s you have to use a hueristic like
Pine does when creating an attachment to determine if it is text or not to
know it it can be displayed. If the text/file subtype (or application/
text-file) where added then it would be clear which was which.

Hope this makes sense!

LL



On Fri, 5 Feb 1993, Terry Gray wrote:

> Ron et al,
> This is a really important issue, and one we've been wrestling with for
> some months.  (In fact, I've taken the liberty of CCing the MIME authors
> in case they wish to comment.)
>
> Putting aside for the moment the possibility that there may still be bugs
> in either Pine's base64 or quoted-printable encoding/decoding routines, the
> design problem is: when to use b64 encoding and when to use q-p encoding.
>
> The issues:
>
>   -Above all else, the integrity of MIME attachments must be preserved.
>    That is, MIME is a failure if people can't have certainty that the
>    MIME-attached bits will be delivered intact.  This would argue for
>    using B64 encoding all the time.  (You don't want q-p newline
>    translation to occur on something that wasn't really a text file.)
>
>   -At odds with the above is the fact that text line delimiters differ from
>    one system to the next, and if you know you are dealing with a text
>    file, it would be nice if the system would handle newline translation
>    automatically.  This argues for using q-p whenever you think you have
>    a text file.  (If b64 was used for text, the destination system might
>    have trouble reading the text, if the nl conventions were different.
>    The translation couldn't be automated because the MIME typing doesn't
>    currently differentiate text files by originating OS.)
>
>   -If you think you have a text file, q-p is also desirable because it
>    is semi-readable by non-MIME mail readers.
>
>   -One lesson of FTP is that we don't want a system where the user has
>    to explicitly declare the type of file and therefore the encoding type.
>    (That's not to preclude the possibility of override, but in general,
>    we don't want people to have to say the equivalent of "binary" or "type
>    image" in order to guarantee correct delivery.  I've seen too many
>    help desk problems from getting this wrong; I've even heard the claim
>    that you can't reliably send binary data on the Internet, presumably
>    because of ftp mode ignorance!!)
>
>   -The behavior (choice of encoding) should be predictable.
>
> So one problem is how to decide whether or not you really have a text file.
> One can define a text file to be a file that only uses certain bit
> patterns within the character space, but to be certain you must scan the
> entire file.  But that's inefficient, so right now Pine looks at the first
> chunk and tries to make the right decision.
>
> It would appear that the current test is not sufficiently conservative,
> and may also fail the predictability goal.  Some Unix systems have a very
> sophisticated "file" program that could help, but others are less
> sophisticated, and DOS users may have nothing of the kind.  So what is the
> minimum acceptable test for "text-ness"?
>
> Of if efficiency concerns imply that there will always be some uncertainty
> in the correctness of the encoding decision --a bad thing-- should we
> consider defining subtypes text/mac, text/dos, text/unix so b64 could be
> used in all cases, and the mail *reader* could do the appropriate newline
> translation, if any was needed?   (This assumes that everyone will soon
> have MIME-capable mail readers available, which is arguable, but perhaps
> not that unreasonable a premise if it would improve the certainty that
> MIME attachments are reliable.)
>
> Comments/suggestions are welcome.
>
> -teg
>
>
>
> On Fri, 5 Feb 1993, Ron Pool wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 5 Feb 1993, Jonathan Kruger wrote:
> > > Why is it that when I send a NeXT WordPerfect document or a .GIF file
> > > as a MIME attachment it works, but if I send a WP5.1 or .TIFF file the
> > > attachment only contains a few bytes like "II*" and nothing else?
> >
> > We just noticed this happen with a DOS WordPerfect 5.1 document here
> > yesterday.  I looked into why it was happening and decided that
> > file_type() in pine/send.c was deciding it was quotable-text, when it
> > wasn't.  I'm not sure why, but for us encoding all enclosures as base64
> > works, so I replaced the call to file_type() with an assignment to the
> > value IsBinary.  This is a bad fix as it means some files that could have
> > been directly viewable with MIME tools now won't be, but we had a couple
> > of users who really needed to get going.
> >
> > I did notice while reading send.c that there are special checks for
> > certain file types that just look for a signature of just a few characters at
> > the beginning of a file to determine file type.  This allows pine to
> > recognize some certain files (GIF and TIFF in particular), but it's
> > certainly possible for files to be recognized as being of a certain
> > type when they're really not of that type.
> > --
> > Ron Pool; Electronic Technology Group; B-15 Wing Hall; Ithaca, NY 14853
> > Internet: [email protected]
> >
> >
>
>
>





From [email protected] Sat Feb  6 18:54:45 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA13745; Sat, 6 Feb 93 18:54:45 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA25536; Sat, 6 Feb 93 18:46:23 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from shiva2.cac.washington.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA25530; Sat, 6 Feb 93 18:46:22 -0800
Received: by shiva2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA12756; Sat, 6 Feb 93 18:46:17 -0800
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1993 18:15:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Problem using MIME attachments
To: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Cc: Ron Pool <[email protected]>, Ned Freed <[email protected]>,
       Nathaniel Borenstein <[email protected]>,
       [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:


>   3 Create a text/file subtype for file attachments and B64 them
>      + Increased reliability
>      - Loss of readability for non-MIME folks

This is a comment just on the typing specification, not whether or not
to use b64 encoding...

As we've discussed separately, the problem with "text/file" is that it
breaks the typing model.  "file" is not a type, it is a specification of
the way the bits happen to be stored, and is useful only to distinguish
text that came from a file from text that was entered directly into the
composer.

In order to make the text/file approach work, you would need to create a
parallel universe of "file" subtypes for all other *real* subtypes of type
text.  That is, you need to have text/plain and text/plainfile, text/rich
and text/richfile, etc.  (That's again because "file" has no bearing on
the semantic type of the information.)

So I think this is the wrong direction.  It is clear that the current
strategy in Pine of using application/o-s is also wrong, as it should
certainly be possible to display attached text files base on their MIME type.
So I believe attached text files should use the normal MIME text type.

This is orthogonal to the original question I posed of how to reliably
determine when you really have a text file, as it would be disastrous to
apply newline transformations to something that just *seemed* like it was
a text object...  obviously I didn't realize that Pine was already looking
at the entire file to make its decision, so maybe that's a non-issue.

Then the more interesting question becomes when to use b64 and when to
use q-p once you've decided you've got a text file.  Is it, as Mark
suggests, strictly an aesthetic decision, or are there cases (e.g. the
EBCDIC gateway) where q-p will lose data integrity.  (I'm assuming q-p
would be done in a way that quotes NL-From sequences that would otherwise
be munged by Bky mail delivery software.)

Since I'm personally convinced that data integrity is *infinitely* more
important than backwards compatibility for non-MIME mailers, this seems
to me to be the crucial issue.  (You can keep using Ctl-R text inclusion
until all your friends are MIME-capable!)

-teg




From [email protected] Sat Feb  6 19:15:54 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA13973; Sat, 6 Feb 93 19:15:54 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA25624; Sat, 6 Feb 93 19:06:13 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from csgrad.cs.vt.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA25618; Sat, 6 Feb 93 19:06:10 -0800
Received: by csgrad.cs.vt.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3)
       id AA18834; Sat, 6 Feb 1993 22:06:07 -0500
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1993 21:56:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Problem using MIME attachments (text/file or no)
To: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Cc: Ron Pool <[email protected]>, Ned Freed <[email protected]>,
       Nathaniel Borenstein <[email protected]>,
       [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

Hello Terry,

Since the two issues here are orthogonal let me reply twice.

Yes, a bunch of subtypes like text/plaintext would clearly be a bad idea.
That's an interesting observation about the "text" major type. What
exactly does it mean? Seems that it can be taken to indicate that it is
text to be displayed as part of the initial message the user sees when we
opens the message, or does it indicate the format of the data? I'm not
sure if this is clear.

The main problem I see with tagging an attachment that happens to be text
as "text/plain" is that the receiver of will see little indication that
that part of the message is an attachment. This is the case in the way
that Pine works now and I believe is the case with Andrew. Instead the
potentially 100's of Kb will be text displayed when the user opens the
message as Pine (and Andrew I think) currently display all text parts of a
message right up front. We could change this so it only displays the first
text part, but there are many MIME messages (Barber shop MIME) for example
that wouldn't be displayed in this case. It was my impression that one of
the intents of MIME was to be able to map multimedia mail composed on a
GUI desk top into something that was manageable on a character terminal.

Would a subtype application/text-file, sort of a parallel to application/
octet-stream, solve this problem? There certainly aren't any other sub
types that we'd have to worry about.

My personal use isn't certainly not important here. It would be nice to
hear what some of the other MIME folks think about the meaning of the
"text" type.

LL


On Sat, 6 Feb 1993, Terry Gray wrote:

>
> >   3 Create a text/file subtype for file attachments and B64 them
> >      + Increased reliability
> >      - Loss of readability for non-MIME folks
>
> This is a comment just on the typing specification, not whether or not
> to use b64 encoding...
>
> As we've discussed separately, the problem with "text/file" is that it
> breaks the typing model.  "file" is not a type, it is a specification of
> the way the bits happen to be stored, and is useful only to distinguish
> text that came from a file from text that was entered directly into the
> composer.
>
> In order to make the text/file approach work, you would need to create a
> parallel universe of "file" subtypes for all other *real* subtypes of type
> text.  That is, you need to have text/plain and text/plainfile, text/rich
> and text/richfile, etc.  (That's again because "file" has no bearing on
> the semantic type of the information.)
>
> So I think this is the wrong direction.  It is clear that the current
> strategy in Pine of using application/o-s is also wrong, as it should
> certainly be possible to display attached text files base on their MIME type.
> So I believe attached text files should use the normal MIME text type.
>
> -teg
>
>







From [email protected] Sat Feb  6 19:25:10 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA14040; Sat, 6 Feb 93 19:25:10 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA25661; Sat, 6 Feb 93 19:17:50 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from shiva2.cac.washington.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA25655; Sat, 6 Feb 93 19:17:48 -0800
Received: by shiva2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA20161; Sat, 6 Feb 93 19:17:44 -0800
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1993 19:13:33 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Problem using MIME attachments (text/file or no)
To: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Cc: Ned Freed <[email protected]>,
       Nathaniel Borenstein <[email protected]>,
       [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:


> The main problem I see with tagging an attachment that happens to be text
> as "text/plain" is that the receiver of will see little indication that
> that part of the message is an attachment.

Or said differently, there is little indication that text entered directly
into the composer is *not* an attachment from the user's view point.  So
maybe we're looking at this backwards: the problem is distinguishing the
text that is entered directly into the composer so that it will be
displayed automatically, as opposed to displayed "on demand".

Is there some clever use of "text" and/or "message" types that could be used
to distinguish the composed text part of the message?

-teg




From [email protected] Sat Feb  6 19:39:36 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA14187; Sat, 6 Feb 93 19:39:36 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA25719; Sat, 6 Feb 93 19:32:36 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from csgrad.cs.vt.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA25713; Sat, 6 Feb 93 19:32:34 -0800
Received: by csgrad.cs.vt.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3)
       id AA19011; Sat, 6 Feb 1993 22:32:32 -0500
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1993 22:20:33 -0500 (EST)
From: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Problem using MIME attachments (text/file or no)
To: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Cc: Ned Freed <[email protected]>,
       Nathaniel Borenstein <[email protected]>,
       [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:


> > The main problem I see with tagging an attachment that happens to be text
> > as "text/plain" is that the receiver of will see little indication that
> > that part of the message is an attachment.
>
> Or said differently, there is little indication that text entered directly
> into the composer is *not* an attachment from the user's view point.  So
> maybe we're looking at this backwards: the problem is distinguishing the
> text that is entered directly into the composer so that it will be
> displayed automatically, as opposed to displayed "on demand".
>
> Is there some clever use of "text" and/or "message" types that could be used
> to distinguish the composed text part of the message?
>

Yes, displayed on demand versus automatic is exactly the problem I have in
mind! Sorry if that wasn't clear.

I'm not sure that message type would fool Pine as it tries to display all
the sub messages and their text too. I don't see any subtypes under
message that look good though it seems like a clever idea.

Another possiblity that's come to my mind is to use application/
X-text-file for now and as an experiment. Of course it would only work
with Pine, but it's legal MIME and other MIME implementations should just
treat it as application/octet-stream. (Better check the RFC on this one to
be sure). (Actually last I saw one MIME implementation was getting away
sending Application/octet-data which isn't even legal MIME).

LL







From [email protected] Sat Feb  6 20:09:09 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA14499; Sat, 6 Feb 93 20:09:09 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA27760; Sat, 6 Feb 93 20:01:09 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA27754; Sat, 6 Feb 93 20:01:07 -0800
Received: from Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM by Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU
       (NX5.67c/UW-NDC Revision: 2.26 ) id AA06676; Sat, 6 Feb 93 20:00:51 -0800
Received: from localhost by Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM
       (NX5.67c/UW-NDC/Panda Revision: 2.27.MRC ) id AA26789; Sat, 6 Feb 93 20:00:43 -0800
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1993 19:33:04 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Problem using MIME attachments
To: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Cc: Terry Gray <[email protected]>, Ned Freed <[email protected]>,
       Nathaniel Borenstein <[email protected]>,
       [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

Hi -

I'm staying out of the discussion about TEXT/FILE vs. APPLICATION/TEXT because
I think it's religious and I'm pretty ecumenical on that particular question.
I agree with most of the assessments of the pros and cons on each, and I'd go
with concensus.  Of course, that's easy for me to say since it's not up to me
to implement it!  ;-)

> I'm trying to remember exactly what the reliability problem of q-p
> encoding is. I know one problem is going through an EBCDIC gateway, but I
> can't think of any other. A file attachment that is text with some
> non-EBCDIC characters will be corrupted as it goes through the gateway.

Please try to make sure Nathaniel and Ned have the details of this, because
supposedly q-p is immune to this.

>    1 Encoding everything in B64 including text attachments tag as text/plain
>       - Loss distinction between message text parts and text attachments

I'm not sure this ``minus'' is all that important, as long as you have the
ability to save any text part to a file.  A clever user interface can do a lot
here, and Pine certainly qualifies.

>    2 Encode text with q-p and tag as application/o-s (Current Pine)
>       - Less reliable

This rumor of unreliability is of concern to us.  I think that application/o-s
should indicate that newline processing should not be done, hence Pine vs
MailManager's cat-fight over text attachments (Pine attaches as text,
MailManager attaches as binary).

Whether the data is in q-p or base64 should be irrelevant to the text vs
binary issue; the typing should indicate this

Here is my feeling on the matter of the ``right'' thing to do:

ATTACHING:
- Select binary vs text.  Text data is a sequence of mostly printable
  characters and formatters (e.g. CTRL/L) terminated by the *local* system's
  newline convention (CTRL/J on Unix, CTRL/M CTRL/J on DOS, CTRL/M on Mac,
  etc.).  So this is an osdep decision.  Text that exhibits some other
  line convention (e.g. CTRL/M's appearing in the data on Unix) should be
  automatically disqualified as text and labelled as binary.
  - if text, apply newline conversion to internet standard CR/LF.  Set type
    to be TEXT/FILE, APPLICATION/TEXT, whatever is decided as P.C. for this.
  - if binary, set type to APPLICATION/OCTET-STREAM
- Determine base64 vs q-p encoding
  - if text, default to q-p, unless there is an excessive amount of 8th bit
    and non-printable CTRL characters (e.g. nulls, CTRL/C, etc.) that would
    make a q-p segment likely to be longer than base64.
  - if binary, default to base64, unless there is a paucity of 8th bit and
    non-printable CTRL characters that would make a q-p segment likely to be
    shorter than base64.

DETACHING:
- apply q-p or base64 decoding as possible.
- process the resulting data:
  - if APPLICATION/TEXT (or whatever) convert all CR/LF to local newline.
  - if APPLICATION/OCTET-STREAM, write without conversions

Essentially, the encoding format should say nothing about newlines.  It is the
type that should say this, as follows:
- APPLICATION/OCTET-STREAM should say that ``this is a sequence of octets
  that should be written to a file without any attempt to change it to local
  data conventions.''
- APPLICATION/TEXT should say ``this is text in Internet newline format that
  you may need to convert to local data conventions.''
TOPS-20 ;-) and DOS machines will happily ignore the difference, but everyone
else would have to do newline conversions for APPLICATION/TEXT.

I think that MIME made a big mistake in trying to mesh encodings (base64, q-p,
7bit, 8bit) with the newline problem.  I should have understood this back
then, but I didn't.  It's a terrible mixing of layers to have q-p try to
understand ``newlines'' vs. CR, LF, and CR LF.  I wonder if we can fix this in
MIME without endangering its standards track process by saying ``this is
merely a deletion of what we've realized is a bad idea''.

-- Mark --



From [email protected] Sat Feb  6 20:15:10 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA14560; Sat, 6 Feb 93 20:15:10 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA27785; Sat, 6 Feb 93 20:06:00 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from csgrad.cs.vt.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA27779; Sat, 6 Feb 93 20:05:57 -0800
Received: by csgrad.cs.vt.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3)
       id AA19339; Sat, 6 Feb 1993 23:05:51 -0500
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1993 23:04:55 -0500 (EST)
From: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Problem using MIME attachments
To: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Cc: Terry Gray <[email protected]>, Ned Freed <[email protected]>,
       Nathaniel Borenstein <[email protected]>,
       [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

On Sat, 6 Feb 1993, Mark Crispin wrote:

> Hi -
>
> ....
>
> Here is my feeling on the matter of the ``right'' thing to do:
>
> ATTACHING:
>  - Select binary vs text.  Text data is a sequence of mostly printable
>    characters and formatters (e.g. CTRL/L) terminated by the *local* system's
>    newline convention (CTRL/J on Unix, CTRL/M CTRL/J on DOS, CTRL/M on Mac,
>    etc.).  So this is an osdep decision.  Text that exhibits some other
>    line convention (e.g. CTRL/M's appearing in the data on Unix) should be
>    automatically disqualified as text and labelled as binary.
>    - if text, apply newline conversion to internet standard CR/LF.  Set type
>      to be TEXT/FILE, APPLICATION/TEXT, whatever is decided as P.C. for this.
>    - if binary, set type to APPLICATION/OCTET-STREAM
>  - Determine base64 vs q-p encoding
>    - if text, default to q-p, unless there is an excessive amount of 8th bit
>      and non-printable CTRL characters (e.g. nulls, CTRL/C, etc.) that would
>      make a q-p segment likely to be longer than base64.
>    - if binary, default to base64, unless there is a paucity of 8th bit and
>      non-printable CTRL characters that would make a q-p segment likely to be
>      shorter than base64.
>
> DETACHING:
>  - apply q-p or base64 decoding as possible.
>  - process the resulting data:
>    - if APPLICATION/TEXT (or whatever) convert all CR/LF to local newline.
>    - if APPLICATION/OCTET-STREAM, write without conversions
> ....


Agreed!!!


LL




From [email protected] Sun Feb  7 08:38:03 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22319; Sun, 7 Feb 93 08:38:03 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA28482; Sun, 7 Feb 93 08:27:46 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from thumper.bellcore.com by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA28476; Sun, 7 Feb 93 08:27:02 -0800
Received: from greenbush.bellcore.com by thumper.bellcore.com (4.1/4.7)
       id <AA20123> for [email protected]; Sun, 7 Feb 93 11:27:00 EST
Received: by greenbush.bellcore.com (4.1/4.7)
       id <AA04027> for [email protected]; Sun, 7 Feb 93 10:57:02 EST
Received: from Messages.8.5.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.greenbush.galaxy.sun4.41
         via MS.5.6.greenbush.galaxy.sun4_41;
         Sun,  7 Feb 1993 10:57:00 -0500 (EST)
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Date: Sun,  7 Feb 1993 10:57:00 -0500 (EST)
From: Nathaniel Borenstein <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
To: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>, Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Problem using MIME attachments
Cc: Terry Gray <[email protected]>, Ned Freed <[email protected]>,
       [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Status: O
X-Status:

Rather than another type, how about adding a parameter to
application/octet-stream to indicate whether the attachment is readable
as text, e.g.

Content-type: application/octet-stream; readable=yes

or something like that?  Seems to me that this captures the one bit of
difference that we're trying to get at here with the smallest possible
change to MIME.... -- Nathaniel



From [email protected] Sun Feb  7 09:39:18 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA23031; Sun, 7 Feb 93 09:39:18 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA28644; Sun, 7 Feb 93 09:29:03 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from shiva2.cac.washington.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA28638; Sun, 7 Feb 93 09:28:42 -0800
Received: by shiva2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA12581; Sun, 7 Feb 93 09:23:55 -0800
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1993 09:21:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Problem using MIME attachments
To: Nathaniel Borenstein <[email protected]>
Cc: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>, Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>,
       Ned Freed <[email protected]>, [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:


On Sun, 7 Feb 1993, Nathaniel Borenstein wrote:

> Rather than another type, how about adding a parameter to
> application/octet-stream to indicate whether the attachment is readable
> as text, e.g.
>
> Content-type: application/octet-stream; readable=yes

Not a bad idea, but I would turn it around:

Content-type: text/plain; source=file

or

Content-type: text/plain; source=message

I think it is imperative that text objects get typed as "text", lest the NL
stuff gets messed up...

-teg




From [email protected] Sun Feb  7 11:40:32 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA24483; Sun, 7 Feb 93 11:40:32 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA00929; Sun, 7 Feb 93 11:30:06 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA00918; Sun, 7 Feb 93 11:29:16 -0800
Received: from Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM by Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU
       (NX5.67c/UW-NDC Revision: 2.26 ) id AA07092; Sun, 7 Feb 93 11:28:39 -0800
Received: from localhost by Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM
       (NX5.67c/UW-NDC/Panda Revision: 2.27.MRC ) id AA29584; Sun, 7 Feb 93 11:27:29 -0800
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1993 11:21:59 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Problem using MIME attachments
To: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Cc: Nathaniel Borenstein <[email protected]>,
       Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>,
       Ned Freed <[email protected]>, [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

On Sun, 7 Feb 1993 09:21:31 -0800 (PST), Terry Gray wrote:
> On Sun, 7 Feb 1993, Nathaniel Borenstein wrote:
> > Rather than another type, how about adding a parameter to
> > application/octet-stream to indicate whether the attachment is readable
> > as text, e.g.
> > Content-type: application/octet-stream; readable=yes
>
> Not a bad idea, but I would turn it around:
>
>  Content-type: text/plain; source=file
>
> or
>
>  Content-type: text/plain; source=message
>
> I think it is imperative that text objects get typed as "text", lest the NL
> stuff gets messed up...

And now we've gone full circle, because now we have TEXT/PLAIN being used both
for text which is intended to be read by a human in the mail reader, and
application data which just happens to be in text/Internet new line form.

At the very least, we need a separate subtype that clearly states that:
1) it is application data
2) it is text using Internet newlines

It is a matter of religion whether or not it is a subtype of APPLICATION or of
TEXT, and I am ecumenical on this question; although I somewhat think that
APPLICATION is more appropriate (note that MESSAGE also has ``text'').

We can delete from q-p all the crap about newline handling if we separate text
vs. binary at the upper levels.

So, I see it as the addition on one subtype (as a bug fix) and the deletion of
text (as unnecessary); hopefully miminal damage and not enough to endanger its
progression to Draft.



From [email protected] Sun Feb  7 12:08:14 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA24798; Sun, 7 Feb 93 12:08:14 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA01046; Sun, 7 Feb 93 12:02:45 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from csgrad.cs.vt.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA01040; Sun, 7 Feb 93 12:02:42 -0800
Received: by csgrad.cs.vt.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3)
       id AA24083; Sun, 7 Feb 1993 15:02:35 -0500
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1993 15:00:05 -0500 (EST)
From: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Problem using MIME attachments
To: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Cc: Nathaniel Borenstein <[email protected]>,
       Mark Crispin <[email protected]>, Ned Freed <[email protected]>,
       [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

On Sun, 7 Feb 1993, Terry Gray wrote:

> Not a bad idea, but I would turn it around:
>
>  Content-type: text/plain; source=file
>

This looks like it would work great for Pine! Possibly the parameter
should be name=<file> since that's what is used with application/o-s.
Pine will display all text without the name parameter and treat that with
the name parameter as a displayable attachment.

This will solve the problem for Pine, but for the sake of ineroperability
it seems like it would be good to persue something more formal like Mark
has suggested, so other implementors figure out how do deal with this.

LL







From [email protected] Mon Feb  8 23:20:54 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA28892; Mon, 8 Feb 93 23:20:54 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA12433; Mon, 8 Feb 93 23:14:46 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA12427; Mon, 8 Feb 93 23:14:44 -0800
Received: from localhost by Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU
       (NX5.67c/UW-NDC Revision: 2.26 ) id AA09257; Mon, 8 Feb 93 23:14:39 -0800
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1993 22:58:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Subject: re: Message ID
To: "David E. Martin" <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

Hi -

    I'm surprised that your system really cares about the precise contents of
the Message-ID, since it is defined syntactically only.  I hope this is only
an esthetic issue.

    However, it really is important that the fully-qualified domain name
(FQDN) be listed before any nicknames or non-FQDNs in any host table.  In
several places internally, Pine uses the results of the equivalent of:
 gethostname (tmp,TMPLEN);
 myhostname = gethostbyname (tmp)->h_name;
to get the fully-qualified domain name.

    You may have other strange side effects caused by Pine's inability to get
the FQDN.  I'm surprised you haven't seen any by now.  Arguably, it's a bug
that YP and host tables allow a non-FQDN to show up as the result of the above
code sequence, but the sad reality is that they do...  :-(

    On my machines, I use FQDNs in my bootparams.  In general, I consider
non-FDQNs to be only for user typing convenience, and stick to FQDNs in all
configuration files, etc.  It makes life a lot easier and simpler just to
assume that only FQDN's work.  If you can do this, this may help a lot.

    Another possibility is to punt things like YP and NetInfo and stick with
the DNS, but I understand that that may not be a feasible or useful suggestion
for you.

-- Mark --



From [email protected] Tue Feb  9 03:01:05 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA02576; Tue, 9 Feb 93 03:01:05 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA13174; Tue, 9 Feb 93 02:54:25 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from mail.brad.ac.uk by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA13168; Tue, 9 Feb 93 02:54:17 -0800
Received: from subnode.bradford.ac.uk (info.brad.ac.uk) by mail.brad.ac.uk; Tue, 9 Feb 1993 10:50:46 GMT
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1993 10:05:11 +0000 (GMT)
From: Paul Sutton <[email protected]>
Subject: re: Message ID
To: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

On Mon, 8 Feb 1993, Mark Crispin wrote:
>      I'm surprised that your system really cares about the precise contents of
> the Message-ID, since it is defined syntactically only.  I hope this is only
> an esthetic issue.

We had the same situation as the poster; for historical reasons we do not
have the FQDN in the hosts table. I wanted to ensure that the message-ID
contained the FQDN to ensure that the message-id's generated were unique.
I suppose it might be aesthetic only, but I can't see how you can
guarantee that message-ids are unique if you don't use the FQDN.

>      However, it really is important that the fully-qualified domain name
> (FQDN) be listed before any nicknames or non-FQDNs in any host table.  In
> several places internally, Pine uses the results of the equivalent of:
>   gethostname (tmp,TMPLEN);
>   myhostname = gethostbyname (tmp)->h_name;
> to get the fully-qualified domain name.

I think that the only place that obtains the hostname is the OS specific
files (os-unx.c, etc). This is stored into hostname[] for use elsewhere.
Based on this assumption I made a simple modification to gethostname() to
ensure that hostname[] always had our domain name taked onto its end.

>      On my machines, I use FQDNs in my bootparams.  In general, I consider
> non-FDQNs to be only for user typing convenience, and stick to FQDNs in all
> configuration files, etc.  It makes life a lot easier and simpler just to
> assume that only FQDN's work.  If you can do this, this may help a lot.

I agree with you, and if we started our systems from scratch we'd use
FQDNs everywhere. However, at the moment and for the immediate future we
are stuck with short names (changing to FQDN is not a trivial task, since
the hostname is used as a key is many places which will break when it is
changed).

Paul
--
Paul Sutton                | Computer Centre, University of Bradford,
[email protected]  | Bradford, UK. Tel +44.274.383319




From [email protected] Tue Feb  9 08:56:48 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA07515; Tue, 9 Feb 93 08:56:48 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA15092; Tue, 9 Feb 93 08:42:47 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from csgrad.cs.vt.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA15086; Tue, 9 Feb 93 08:42:38 -0800
Received: by csgrad.cs.vt.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3)
       id AA20891; Tue, 9 Feb 1993 11:39:57 -0500
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1993 11:36:30 -0500 (EST)
From: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Subject: re: Message ID
To: Paul Sutton <[email protected]>
Cc: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>, [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

On Tue, 9 Feb 1993, Paul Sutton wrote:

> I think that the only place that obtains the hostname is the OS specific
> files (os-unx.c, etc). This is stored into hostname[] for use elsewhere.
> Based on this assumption I made a simple modification to gethostname() to
> ensure that hostname[] always had our domain name taked onto its end.
>

What library calls or other do you use to look up to domain you tack on?
You might just send the code.

This is a common annoyance with Pine and I would like to see it fixed, but
in a way that folks installing Pine wouldn't have to worry about it. (No
compile time configuration).

LL








From [email protected] Wed Feb 10 04:56:43 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA02430; Wed, 10 Feb 93 04:56:43 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA24392; Wed, 10 Feb 93 04:49:21 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from mail.brad.ac.uk by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA24386; Wed, 10 Feb 93 04:49:15 -0800
Received: from subnode.bradford.ac.uk (info.brad.ac.uk) by mail.brad.ac.uk; Wed, 10 Feb 1993 12:45:39 GMT
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1993 12:40:44 +0000 (GMT)
From: Paul Sutton <[email protected]>
Subject: re: Message ID
To: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Cc: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>, [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

On Tue, 9 Feb 1993, Laurence Lundblade wrote:
> On Tue, 9 Feb 1993, Paul Sutton wrote:
> > I think that the only place that obtains the hostname is the OS specific
> > files (os-unx.c, etc). This is stored into hostname[] for use elsewhere.
> > Based on this assumption I made a simple modification to gethostname() to
> > ensure that hostname[] always had our domain name taked onto its end.
>
> What library calls or other do you use to look up to domain you tack on?
> You might just send the code.
>
> This is a common annoyance with Pine and I would like to see it fixed, but
> in a way that folks installing Pine wouldn't have to worry about it. (No
> compile time configuration).

I'm afraid I don't do anything clever (or portable!) - just a straight
modification to os-unx.c to force the adding of our domain (which is
hard-coded in, ugh!). (It would be better if it got the domain from the
user-domain, maybe, or from the DNS, but I wanted to make the minimum
amount of changes to the source code so that I could apply it to future
versions without hassle!).

Still, it works for us, so it may be useful, so here's the context diff
(if you aren't using os-unx as your OS specific files you'll have to apply
this to os-???.c instead).

*** os-unx.c.orig       Thu Sep 17 16:17:23 1992
--- os-unx.c    Thu Sep 17 16:19:31 1992
***************
*** 986,991 ****
--- 986,993 ----
         strncpy(hostname, hname, hsize - 1);
     } else {
         strncpy(hostname, he->h_name, hsize-1);
+       if (strindex(hostname, '.') == NULL)
+          strcat(hostname, ".brad.ac.uk");
     }
     hostname[hsize-1] = '\0';


Paul
--
Paul Sutton                | Computer Centre, University of Bradford,
[email protected]  | Bradford, UK. Tel +44.274.383319




From [email protected] Wed Feb 10 08:16:58 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA05056; Wed, 10 Feb 93 08:16:58 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA21859; Wed, 10 Feb 93 08:10:46 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from shiva2.cac.washington.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA21853; Wed, 10 Feb 93 08:10:45 -0800
Received: by shiva2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA23371; Wed, 10 Feb 93 08:10:42 -0800
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1993 08:05:21 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Global Address books
To: Ian Lumb <[email protected]>
Cc: PINE INFO <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

Ian and Mike,
Some form of shared address book is definitely on the enhancement list...
We just need someone to give us one of those "Round TuIt" things :)

One question is whether this should be a simple extension to the personal
address book (but searched *after* the personal one, or whether it should
be an interface to whois/x.500/etc, or are both mechanisms desirable?  I
suspect the answer is "both", but comments are welcome.  (Obviously the
former is easier than the latter and would therefore be likely to appear
sooner!)

-teg


On Wed, 10 Feb 1993, Ian Lumb wrote:

> This is a terrific idea Mike, that I'd also like to see added/kludged into
> pine.
>
> Ian.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Ian Lumb     Internet: <[email protected]>
> Earth & Atmospheric Science, York University
> North York, Ontario  M3J 1P3,  CANADA
> Voice: (416) 736-5245; Fax: (416) 736-5817
>
>





From [email protected] Wed Feb 10 10:44:14 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA09593; Wed, 10 Feb 93 10:44:14 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA26816; Wed, 10 Feb 93 10:26:43 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from julian.uwo.ca by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA26810; Wed, 10 Feb 93 10:26:40 -0800
Received: by julian.uwo.ca id AA07084;
       Wed, 10 Feb 93 13:26:35 -0500
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1993 13:16:32 -0500 (EST)
From: Mike Cote <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Global Address books
To: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Cc: Ian Lumb <[email protected]>, PINE INFO <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:


Ian, Terry:

As we have both X.500 and whois here at UWO, this topic was one
of the first to come up when we decided to go with pine.

I've made some changes to our local pine in order to allow some interaction
with a generic directory server program (using whois as the default).  With
the work I've done so far you can invoke whois with ^W from either the
'ADDRESS BOOK' screen or the 'COMPOSE' screen (from the header fields
only).  A search key is prompted for and the results displayed as a
'HELP' screen (I cheated a bit here, but it works nicely).
I've also added a 'directory-access' entry to the .pinerc file, as we're
also working on a local version of whois.

The next step is to figure out a way to pull an address from the whois
lookup into the appropriate mail header field.  At this point the
interface is purely visual.

For the brave... A diff file containing the whois changes is available
on julian.uwo.ca as ~ftp/pub/unix/mail/pine-3.05/uwo-whois.diff.  All
changes are #ifdef'd with 'WHOIS'.   Suggestions are welcome.

-----------
Mike Cote                                       <[email protected]>
Computing and Communications Services
University of Western Ontario               Phone: (519) 661-2151,  X 6048
London, Ontario Canada



On Wed, 10 Feb 1993, Terry Gray wrote:

> Ian and Mike,
> Some form of shared address book is definitely on the enhancement list...
> We just need someone to give us one of those "Round TuIt" things :)
>
> One question is whether this should be a simple extension to the personal
> address book (but searched *after* the personal one, or whether it should
> be an interface to whois/x.500/etc, or are both mechanisms desirable?  I
> suspect the answer is "both", but comments are welcome.  (Obviously the
> former is easier than the latter and would therefore be likely to appear
> sooner!)
>
> -teg
>




From [email protected]  Wed Feb 10 18:43:51 1993
Received: by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA23894; Wed, 10 Feb 93 18:43:51 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from pail.rain.com by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA23888; Wed, 10 Feb 93 18:43:12 -0800
Received: by pail.rain.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.21.1 #21.2)
       id <[email protected]>; Wed, 10 Feb 93 18:42 PST
Received: from bachelor.cascorp.com by mazama.cascorp.com with SMTP
       (16.8/4.0 Server UUCP) id AA03720; Wed, 10 Feb 93 14:02:06 -0800
From: David Bradford <pail!cascorp!dbradfor>
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1993 13:55:39 +0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Global Address books
To: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

On Wed, 10 Feb 1993, Bill Feidt wrote:

> I believe that option 1 would be of significant value to our
> organization.  If tying it to option 2 keeps it lower on the
> "TuIt" list, then I'd vote for divide and conquer.
>

Option 1 would be of significant value to our group as well. We are on the
verge of having a distinct need for a global address book. The sooner you
can get TuIt, the better :)

- Dave
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
:                                                          :            :
: David L. Bradford   UUCP: [email protected] :   __  |    :
: CAD Tech Support  CASCADE CORPORATION, Portland, OR, USA :  |__\_|    :
: (503) 669-6285   Manufacturers of Lift Truck Attachments :   @--@|__  :
:                                                          :            :
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''




From [email protected]  Wed Feb 10 21:28:27 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA25905; Wed, 10 Feb 93 21:28:27 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA28470; Wed, 10 Feb 93 21:20:56 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from nexus.yorku.ca by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA28464; Wed, 10 Feb 93 21:20:54 -0800
Received: from vortex.yorku.ca ([130.63.232.15]) by nexus.yorku.ca with SMTP id <9225>; Thu, 11 Feb 1993 00:20:49 -0500
Received: by vortex.yorku.ca (4.1/SMI-4.1)
       id AA05585; Thu, 11 Feb 93 00:22:34 EST
Date:   Thu, 11 Feb 1993 00:18:30 -0500
From: Ian Lumb <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Global Address books
To: PINE INFO <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

It sounds like you've made some significant additions Mike; perhaps you
should consider submitting them so that they can be included in a future
release of pine?

I will definitely give your diffs a try.

Thanks for your helpful response,

Ian.



--
Ian Lumb     Internet: <[email protected]>
Earth & Atmospheric Science, York University
North York, Ontario  M3J 1P3,  CANADA
Voice: (416) 736-5245; Fax: (416) 736-5817


On Wed, 10 Feb 1993, Mike Cote wrote:

> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1993 13:16:32 -0500 (EST)
> From: Mike Cote <[email protected]>
> To: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
> Cc: Ian Lumb <[email protected]>,
>      PINE INFO <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: Global Address books
>
>
> Ian, Terry:
>
> As we have both X.500 and whois here at UWO, this topic was one
> of the first to come up when we decided to go with pine.
>
> I've made some changes to our local pine in order to allow some interaction
> with a generic directory server program (using whois as the default).  With
> the work I've done so far you can invoke whois with ^W from either the
> 'ADDRESS BOOK' screen or the 'COMPOSE' screen (from the header fields
> only).  A search key is prompted for and the results displayed as a
> 'HELP' screen (I cheated a bit here, but it works nicely).
> I've also added a 'directory-access' entry to the .pinerc file, as we're
> also working on a local version of whois.
>
> The next step is to figure out a way to pull an address from the whois
> lookup into the appropriate mail header field.  At this point the
> interface is purely visual.
>
> For the brave... A diff file containing the whois changes is available
> on julian.uwo.ca as ~ftp/pub/unix/mail/pine-3.05/uwo-whois.diff.  All
> changes are #ifdef'd with 'WHOIS'.   Suggestions are welcome.
>
> -----------
> Mike Cote                                     <[email protected]>
> Computing and Communications Services
> University of Western Ontario             Phone: (519) 661-2151,  X 6048
> London, Ontario Canada
>
>
>
> On Wed, 10 Feb 1993, Terry Gray wrote:
>
> > Ian and Mike,
> > Some form of shared address book is definitely on the enhancement list...
> > We just need someone to give us one of those "Round TuIt" things :)
> >
> > One question is whether this should be a simple extension to the personal
> > address book (but searched *after* the personal one, or whether it should
> > be an interface to whois/x.500/etc, or are both mechanisms desirable?  I
> > suspect the answer is "both", but comments are welcome.  (Obviously the
> > former is easier than the latter and would therefore be likely to appear
> > sooner!)
> >
> > -teg
> >
>
>





From [email protected]  Fri Feb 12 04:54:22 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA29131; Fri, 12 Feb 93 04:54:22 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA13953; Fri, 12 Feb 93 04:47:07 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from itd1.ul.ie by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA13947; Fri, 12 Feb 93 04:46:58 -0800
Received: from itdsrv1.ul.ie by ul.ie (PMDF #12091) id
<[email protected]>; Fri, 12 Feb 1993 12:43 GMT
Received: by itdsrv1.ul.ie (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA20761; Fri,
12 Feb 93 12:52:05 GMT
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1993 12:51:41 +0000 (WET)
From: Denis Hickey <[email protected]>
Subject: Problems with From address
To: pine-info <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Denis Hickey <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
X-Envelope-To: [email protected]
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Mime-Version: 1.0
Status: O
X-Status:


I have been using Pine (3.05) on an Ultrix platform for some time and
find it excellent. However a problem has arisen over the past few days,
which hasme puzzled. On certain messages, the From: field is being
incorrectly parsed. Eg.

With Header info on here is the From address

Ned Freed <<@INTERBIT.BITNET:[email protected]>>

however the message is showing as coming from

       [email protected]    where itdsrv1.ul.ie is my own domain address.

The entry in .pine-debug file is this:

Userid: hickeyd
Fullname: "Denis Hickey"
Password: 3W6wMB93KHTsY
User domain name being used ""
Local Domain name being used "ul.ie"
Host name being used "itdsrv1.ul.ie"
Mail Domain name being used "itdsrv1.ul.ie"
new win size -----<24 80>------
Terminal type: vt100
About to open folder "inbox"    inbox: "inbox"
Opened folder "/usr/spool/mail/hickeyd" with 2 messages
Sorting by arrival


---- MAIL INDEX ----
IMAP 11:50 2/12 mm_log parse: Must use comma to separate addresses: Freed <<@INTERBIT.bitnet:[email protected]>>
IMAP 11:50 2/12 mm_log parse: Must use comma to separate addresses: Freed <<@INTERBIT.bitnet:[email protected]>>

Can anyone throw some light on this.

       Thanks,

               Denis
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Denis Hickey    Information Technology Dept     Email: [email protected]
               University of Limerick          Phone: +353-61-333644
               Eire
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------





From [email protected]  Fri Feb 12 06:29:11 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA00268; Fri, 12 Feb 93 06:29:11 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA14308; Fri, 12 Feb 93 06:23:47 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from csgrad.cs.vt.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA14302; Fri, 12 Feb 93 06:22:44 -0800
Received: by csgrad.cs.vt.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3)
       id AA07263; Fri, 12 Feb 1993 09:22:04 -0500
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1993 09:10:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Subject: re: Message ID
To: Paul Sutton <[email protected]>
Cc: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>, [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

Yes, that's the problem. The only two ways I know to find out a systems
domain is to query the hosts table, DNS, NIS... or to read
/etc/resolv.conf. The best way to do it is to look it up with DNS, NIS and
such, but if you've got the entries in your hosts table unqualified
there's not much that can be done.

I think you wind up having to have some hueristic that tries to decided if
the name you've got is fully qualified or not. (It could have a list of
top level domains hard coded or require at least two clauses separated by
a dot.)

Given that we don't want the method set at compile time there are two
choices. (Don't want extra configuration hassle for system administrators
since ease of administration is also a Pine goal).

1. Look up the name in /etc/hosts (DNS, NIS or YP) and try and fully
  qualify it with whats in /etc/resolv.conf if it's not qualified

2. Get the systems idea of the host name (via the hostname() call), decide
  if it's fully qualified or not and then try and fully qualify it
  with what's in /etc/resolv.conf

Wither case we have to have the hueristic to decide if a name is fully
qualified or not, and this seems like a bad idea.

Personally, I would suggest just overriding all the look ups by setting
the user-domain in the .pinerc or pine.conf files. This does leave the
message ID unqualified, but I'd guess the likelyhood of a problem is
small. Most applications don't use it, and most host names are unique
(unless you use pc1-n, mac1-n or names of planets).

Perhaps a solution to this in Pine might be to use the longer of the name
looked up in /etc/hosts and the name set in the user-domain variable,
assuming the longer is more unique.

Hope this makes sense....

LL




On Wed, 10 Feb 1993, Paul Sutton wrote:

> On Tue, 9 Feb 1993, Laurence Lundblade wrote:
> > On Tue, 9 Feb 1993, Paul Sutton wrote:
> > > I think that the only place that obtains the hostname is the OS specific
> > > files (os-unx.c, etc). This is stored into hostname[] for use elsewhere.
> > > Based on this assumption I made a simple modification to gethostname() to
> > > ensure that hostname[] always had our domain name taked onto its end.
> >
> > What library calls or other do you use to look up to domain you tack on?
> > You might just send the code.
> >
> > This is a common annoyance with Pine and I would like to see it fixed, but
> > in a way that folks installing Pine wouldn't have to worry about it. (No
> > compile time configuration).
>
> I'm afraid I don't do anything clever (or portable!) - just a straight
> modification to os-unx.c to force the adding of our domain (which is
> hard-coded in, ugh!). (It would be better if it got the domain from the
> user-domain, maybe, or from the DNS, but I wanted to make the minimum
> amount of changes to the source code so that I could apply it to future
> versions without hassle!).
>
> Still, it works for us, so it may be useful, so here's the context diff
> (if you aren't using os-unx as your OS specific files you'll have to apply
> this to os-???.c instead).
>
> *** os-unx.c.orig       Thu Sep 17 16:17:23 1992
> --- os-unx.c    Thu Sep 17 16:19:31 1992
> ***************
> *** 986,991 ****
> --- 986,993 ----
>           strncpy(hostname, hname, hsize - 1);
>       } else {
>           strncpy(hostname, he->h_name, hsize-1);
> +       if (strindex(hostname, '.') == NULL)
> +          strcat(hostname, ".brad.ac.uk");
>       }
>       hostname[hsize-1] = '\0';
>
>
> Paul
> --
> Paul Sutton                | Computer Centre, University of Bradford,
> [email protected]  | Bradford, UK. Tel +44.274.383319
>
>







From [email protected]  Fri Feb 12 06:35:46 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA00444; Fri, 12 Feb 93 06:35:46 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA14321; Fri, 12 Feb 93 06:30:46 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from csgrad.cs.vt.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA14315; Fri, 12 Feb 93 06:30:44 -0800
Received: by csgrad.cs.vt.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3)
       id AA07285; Fri, 12 Feb 1993 09:27:42 -0500
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1993 09:24:27 -0500 (EST)
From: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Problems with From address
To: Denis Hickey <[email protected]>
Cc: pine-info <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

It's not a legal RFC-822 address is all the problem:

"Ned Freed <<@INTERBIT.BITNET:[email protected]>>"

It shouldn't have the double "<". I don't know where they are coming from,
but it looks like some gateway is not doing the right thing. Perhaps Mark
can shed some more light on this.

LL



On Fri, 12 Feb 1993, Denis Hickey wrote:

>
> With Header info on here is the From address
>
> Ned Freed <<@INTERBIT.BITNET:[email protected]>>
>
> however the message is showing as coming from
>
>       [email protected]    where itdsrv1.ul.ie is my own domain address.
>
> The entry in .pine-debug file is this:
>
>
>  ---- MAIL INDEX ----
> IMAP 11:50 2/12 mm_log parse: Must use comma to separate addresses: Freed <<@INTERBIT.bitnet:[email protected]>>
> IMAP 11:50 2/12 mm_log parse: Must use comma to separate addresses: Freed <<@INTERBIT.bitnet:[email protected]>>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Denis Hickey  Information Technology Dept     Email: [email protected]
>               University of Limerick          Phone: +353-61-333644
>               Eire
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>





From [email protected]  Fri Feb 12 14:14:15 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA12834; Fri, 12 Feb 93 14:14:15 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA18000; Fri, 12 Feb 93 14:07:44 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17994; Fri, 12 Feb 93 14:07:42 -0800
Received: from Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM by Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU
       (NX5.67c/UW-NDC Revision: 2.26 ) id AA05510; Fri, 12 Feb 93 14:07:38 -0800
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1993 13:59:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Subject: re: Problems with From address
To: Denis Hickey <[email protected]>
Cc: pine-info <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

Denis -

    The problem is with the two angle brackets in the address
       Ned Freed <<@INTERBIT.BITNET:[email protected]>>
This totally confuses Pine's parser, which looks for addresses in the
following order:
       human name <@relay:user@host>
       human name <user@host>
       user@host
       user
What happens is that ``Ned'' satisfies the final rule.  It then expects to see
a comma or the end of string; instead, it encounters ``Freed''.

    Garbage In, Garbage Out...  ;-)

    My suspicion is that the INTERBIT gateway was responsible for this.  Most
likely, it left Ned's machine as
       Ned Freed <[email protected]>
and the INTERBIT gateway has a rule that says ``turn user@host into
<INTERBIT.BITNET:user@host>'', failing to check for the address already being
in the bracketed format.

    Please let me know if there is anything I can do to assist you in
composing a bug report to the INTERBIT gateway maintainer.

-- Mark --



From [email protected]  Fri Feb 12 21:28:03 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA19993; Fri, 12 Feb 93 21:28:03 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA20814; Fri, 12 Feb 93 21:22:38 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from haas.Berkeley.EDU by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA20808; Fri, 12 Feb 93 21:22:37 -0800
Received: by haas.berkeley.edu (5.65/Haas-1.34)
       id AA04690; Fri, 12 Feb 93 21:17:20 -0800
From: [email protected] (Philip Enteles)
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Subject: pine-send????.?
To: [email protected]
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 93 21:17:19 PST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Status: RO
X-Status:

Hello,

I am having a problem with pine 3.05 running on a DEC 5000/133, Ultrix
4.2A. I don't know how long it's been going on but it was just brought
to my attention. What happens is pine sometimes stores mail in /tmp. The
tech notes says that it does this and then starts sendmail in the
background to send these off. The store part seems to be happening but
sendmail never sends them out. I don't think it happens a lot or /tmp
would be filling up every day. I have > 600 users using pine and only
one person has complained but I have about 15 messages up to 3 days old
after which cron removes them so I am not sure how many have been
removed. I have many pleased pine users but I have to solve this problem
ASAP. By the way all the messages seem to have good headers.
Thanks
--
Philip Enteles                          Network Administrator
[email protected]        University of California, Berkeley
510-642-4436                            "Shake your hand,,,,Shake your hand"


From [email protected]  Sat Feb 13 03:37:09 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA24323; Sat, 13 Feb 93 03:37:09 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22015; Sat, 13 Feb 93 03:32:40 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from uu5.psi.com by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22009; Sat, 13 Feb 93 03:32:38 -0800
Received: from teraluna.UUCP by uu5.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.071791-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP;
       id AA12806 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 93 06:19:07 -0500
Received: by TerraLuna.Org (1.65/waf)
       via UUCP; Sat, 13 Feb 93 06:19:35 EST
       for [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: MSDOS Port of Pine?
From: [email protected] (Steve Traugott)
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 93 06:11:08 EST
Organization: ---TerraLuna------*   ...Evolution at Work
Status: O
X-Status:

In the Pine blurb on ftp sites, there's a mention of a port of Pine
to the MS-DOS platform being "well underway".

I'm looking for a good mail reader to port to the Waffle (an MS-DOS
UUCP package) environment, to replace Waffle's stock reader.

Does anyone know if the MS-DOS Pine port is still in progress, does
it have a projected release date, who's doing it, what sorts of
problems are they having if it's taking this long...

I'm ready to do the port myself, but don't want to duplicate effort
nor get into something that's infeasable.  Any word on this?

Steve

---                     .        .    `   *
Steve Traugott             `    .  *           +       [email protected]
...Evolution of Organizations       +    ` .   .      [email protected]
Unix/Internet Systems Engineer         .    [email protected]
Currently Contracting in Kingston N.Y.   .    [email protected] List Manager



From [email protected]  Sat Feb 13 08:52:04 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA27153; Sat, 13 Feb 93 08:52:04 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA01988; Sat, 13 Feb 93 08:40:14 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from shiva2.cac.washington.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA01982; Sat, 13 Feb 93 08:40:12 -0800
Received: by shiva2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17247; Sat, 13 Feb 93 08:40:04 -0800
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1993 08:15:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: MSDOS Port of Pine?
To: Steve Traugott <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

Steve,
PC-Pine is *still* "well underway" :)

Our best guess at the moment is that we'll have a general beta release
ready in about 4 weeks (around the ides of March :)

We *think* that release will be pretty stable, in terms of the key
functionality; in fact, it appears to be pretty stable now, but we still
need to sort out some issues on folder namespaces (especially remote
folders) and mailbox driver control.

And yes, it was a *lot* harder than it looked.  Mostly trying to squeeze
things into a 640K address space, while still being able to deal with
arbitrarily large mailboxes and arbitrarily large MIME attachments.
(We won't talk about the weeks lost discovering and working around
Microsoft bugs...)  All of the work has been done by Mike Seibel, who has
been working on it for 7 months, at about 80 hours a week, with low-level
library support from Mark Crispin.

The functionality is equivalent to the Unix version except that it doesn't
have a spelling checker yet, plus it has a few new things that will also
show up in the next Unix version.  (Anyone have a spelling checker that is
fast and doesn't use any memory? :) It is also mouse-aware (though not a
true Windows app.) The initial release will include versions for packet
driver (based on WATTCP), Novel LWP, and PC-TCP stacks.

-teg


On Sat, 13 Feb 1993, Steve Traugott wrote:

> In the Pine blurb on ftp sites, there's a mention of a port of Pine
> to the MS-DOS platform being "well underway".
>
> I'm looking for a good mail reader to port to the Waffle (an MS-DOS
> UUCP package) environment, to replace Waffle's stock reader.
>
> Does anyone know if the MS-DOS Pine port is still in progress, does
> it have a projected release date, who's doing it, what sorts of
> problems are they having if it's taking this long...
>
> I'm ready to do the port myself, but don't want to duplicate effort
> nor get into something that's infeasable.  Any word on this?
>
> Steve
>
> ---                     .        .    `   *
> Steve Traugott             `    .  *           +       [email protected]
>  ...Evolution of Organizations       +    ` .   .      [email protected]
> Unix/Internet Systems Engineer         .    [email protected]
> Currently Contracting in Kingston N.Y.   .    [email protected] List Manager
>





From [email protected]  Sat Feb 13 11:55:56 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA28857; Sat, 13 Feb 93 11:55:56 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA24027; Sat, 13 Feb 93 11:43:18 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA24021; Sat, 13 Feb 93 11:43:17 -0800
Received: from Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM by Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU
       (NX5.67c/UW-NDC Revision: 2.26 ) id AA06281; Sat, 13 Feb 93 11:43:12 -0800
Received: from localhost by Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM
       (NX5.67c/UW-NDC/Panda Revision: 2.27.MRC ) id AA12623; Sat, 13 Feb 93 11:43:05 -0800
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1993 11:12:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: MSDOS Port of Pine?
To: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

On Sat, 13 Feb 1993 08:15:24 -0800 (PST), Terry Gray wrote:
> And yes, it was a *lot* harder than it looked.  Mostly trying to squeeze
> things into a 640K address space, while still being able to deal with
> arbitrarily large mailboxes and arbitrarily large MIME attachments.
> (We won't talk about the weeks lost discovering and working around
> Microsoft bugs...)  All of the work has been done by Mike Seibel, who has
> been working on it for 7 months, at about 80 hours a week, with low-level
> library support from Mark Crispin.

The work done in c-client (which is really more like a ``kernel'' than a
``library'' these days) would make an interesting case study: how you convince
software that was written with a ``memory is cheaper than bandwidth'' frame of
mind to run on a machine where the exact opposite is true?

What ended up being done was rather clever, if I could be so immodest.  The
first step, and perhaps the least used, was the ability to purge the c-client
caches (or selected parts thereof).  I say ``least used'' because it turned
out that wasn't enough by a long shot.  There's a lesson in this for people
who think the IMAP2bis ``PURGE'' functionality is helpful.

The second step was to control the scope of the caches.  Eliminating message
text caching happened early on, along with a mechanism to pipe the data
through a routine rather than praying that it'd be a short enough (char *)
string to fit inside a 64K DOS segment.  The next to go was envelope caching;
while a big performance win it did take up a surprising amount of memory.

The final step was putting all cache management under the control of a cache
manager routine which can be overridden by the main program (and is overridden
by PC Pine).  This mechanism is amazingly flexible, and Mike has done things
with his cache manager to poor ol' c-client's data structures that I never
dreamed possible -- not to mention possibly illegal under the morality laws of
certain states.......;-)

Using the cache manager capability, a fully-functional c-client can be induced
to use no memory at all modulo temporary storage.  The result is a version of
Pine that runs competantly (if somewhat slowly) even on an XT!



From [email protected]  Sat Feb 13 13:55:20 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA00156; Sat, 13 Feb 93 13:55:20 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA24444; Sat, 13 Feb 93 13:48:42 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from uu5.psi.com by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA24438; Sat, 13 Feb 93 13:48:39 -0800
Received: from teraluna.UUCP by uu5.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.071791-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP;
       id AA27542 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 93 16:31:04 -0500
Received: by TerraLuna.Org (1.65/waf)
       via UUCP; Sat, 13 Feb 93 16:25:34 EST
       for [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: MSDOS Port of Pine?
From: [email protected] (Steve Traugott)
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 93 15:57:34 EST
Organization: ---TerraLuna------*   ...Evolution at Work
Status: O
X-Status:

Terry Gray <[email protected]> writes:

> PC-Pine is *still* "well underway" :)

> And yes, it was a *lot* harder than it looked.  Mostly trying to squeeze
> things into a 640K address space, while still being able to deal with
> arbitrarily large mailboxes and arbitrarily large MIME attachments.
> (We won't talk about the weeks lost discovering and working around
> Microsoft bugs...)  All of the work has been done by Mike Seibel, who has
> been working on it for 7 months, at about 80 hours a week, with low-level
> library support from Mark Crispin.

Goodness!  I'm glad I asked.  Some credit is definitely due there.

I've just started porting the 'tin' newsreader, and haven't yet
gotten anywhere near running make, let alone trying to load the
thing.  Here's hoping 'tin' is small enough...

> Our best guess at the moment is that we'll have a general beta release
> ready in about 4 weeks (around the ides of March :)

I'll keep my eyes open.  Is the beta going to be copied to the ftp
directory?

Steve
---                     .        .    `   *
Steve Traugott             `    .  *           +       [email protected]
...Evolution of Organizations       +    ` .   .      [email protected]
Unix/Internet Systems Engineer         .    [email protected]
Currently Contracting in Kingston N.Y.   .    [email protected] List Manager



From [email protected]  Sat Feb 13 14:19:03 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA00486; Sat, 13 Feb 93 14:19:03 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA03139; Sat, 13 Feb 93 14:12:08 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from shiva2.cac.washington.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA03133; Sat, 13 Feb 93 14:12:07 -0800
Received: by shiva2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA19733; Sat, 13 Feb 93 14:12:01 -0800
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1993 14:00:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: MSDOS Port of Pine?
To: Steve Traugott <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:


On Sat, 13 Feb 1993, Steve Traugott wrote:

> I've just started porting the 'tin' newsreader, and haven't yet
> gotten anywhere near running make, let alone trying to load the
> thing.  Here's hoping 'tin' is small enough...

Incidentally, one of the things we've been working on in the background in
mail and news integration.  For sites that store news on the same machine
that has user home directories (in particular, .newsrc files), it is
possible to use Pine/IMAP for reading news today, though more work is
needed on the user interface.  Mark has just finished the first cut of an
NNTP driver for C-client, so we expect that PC-Pine will be able to read
news using either a central .newsrc model via IMAP, or a local/desktop
newsrc model via NNTP. Not sure how soon we'll have the pieces together,
but it is coming.   We haven't done anything about posting yet.

I'm sure tin will have superior news reading functionality for awhile
anyway, but we think there is merit in providing a common UI to both
worlds.

> I'll keep my eyes open.  Is the beta going to be copied to the ftp
> directory?

Definitely.  And of course there will be an anouncement posted to
pine-info and pine-announce.

-teg




From [email protected]  Mon Feb 15 00:59:12 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA20947; Mon, 15 Feb 93 00:59:12 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA10218; Mon, 15 Feb 93 00:50:37 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from sussdirt.rdg.ac.uk by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA10212; Mon, 15 Feb 93 00:50:34 -0800
Received: from reading.ac.uk by susssys1.reading.ac.uk with SMTP (PP)
         id <[email protected]>; Mon, 15 Feb 1993 08:49:29 +0000
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1993 08:44:15 +0000 (GMT)
From: Mike Roch <[email protected]>
Subject: Posting News Items from within Pine
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9302150855.B16206-c110000@suma1>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="587204512-2052408702-729766085:#16206"
Status: O
X-Status:

--587204512-2052408702-729766085:#16206
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

There's been some discussion lately about using Pine as a newsreader.
We've set this up here and are delighted with the functionality.

Version 3.05 does not offer an option to post messages, but posting _can_
be done from within Pine using a post-news-via-mail service. The only host
I know of is that mentioned in the attached message. I've verified that it
works, but it took four or five days to appear as "news" back here.

Mike

===================================================================
Mike Roch, Computer Services Centre,         [email protected]
University of Reading,                             Tel: 0734 318430
Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AX.                    Fax: 0734 753094


--587204512-2052408702-729766085:#16206
Content-Type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Content-ID: <Pine.3.05.9302150815.C16206@suma1>
Content-Description: Forwarded message 'Re: Posting news item via e-mail'

Path: reading!uknet!doc.ic.ac.uk!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Scott Reinhardt)
Newsgroups: comp.mail.misc
Subject: Re: Posting news item via e-mail
Message-ID: <9302051525.AA53112@tonga>
Date: 5 Feb 93 15:44:14 GMT
Sender: [email protected]
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
Lines: 36
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu




Reply-To: [email protected]

Roch Saumure writes:

>I have an account at university from where I can send e-mail but cannot
>access usenet. I would like to know how I can post news items from university
>by using e-mail.

There are several ways to send mail to post to a newgroup.  Here is one,
and the way that this message was posted.

[email protected]

Where: comp-mail-misc is one's favorite newsgroup delimited by dashes (-)
instead of the customary dot (.) format.

There are a few hosts that will post for you, but my doc file seems to be
missing.


Scott

Scott Reinhardt      (602) 548-4731              -CS90's Project UI Development
Professional Software Consultants, Phoenix, AZ   -American Express
[email protected] -or- [email protected] -or- [email protected]
                       CompuServe: 73230,2401         MCI Mail: 337-4731 you, but my doc file seems to be
missing.


Scott

Scott Reinhardt      (602) 548-4731              -CS90's Project UI Development
Professional Software Consultants, Phoenix, AZ   -American Express
[email protected] -or- [email protected] -or- [email protected]
                       CompuServe: 73230,2401         MCI Mail: 337-4731

--587204512-2052408702-729766085:#16206--



From [email protected]  Tue Feb 16 03:36:34 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA10827; Tue, 16 Feb 93 03:36:34 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA16693; Tue, 16 Feb 93 03:27:27 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from sussdirt.rdg.ac.uk by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA16687; Tue, 16 Feb 93 03:27:22 -0800
Received: from reading.ac.uk by susssys1.reading.ac.uk with SMTP (PP)
         id <[email protected]>; Tue, 16 Feb 1993 11:22:44 +0000
Message-Id: <6687.9302161123@suma1>
X-Mailer: Eudora 1.3b109
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1993 11:25:02 +0000
To: [email protected]
From: Mike Roch <[email protected]>
X-Sender: [email protected]
Subject: Pine, bytes and parity.
Cc: Hilary Vines x8437 <[email protected]>,
       Noel Lynch x8435 <[email protected]>
Status: O
X-Status:

We're having problems with some of our X25 connected terminals and Pine.

Our comms expert tells me that all Pine output to the screen is 8 bit with
the top bit unset; Pine demands that input is also in this form. We see no
problems with telnet sessions, nor with serial terminals that are set to 8
bit no parity.

Is it possible for Pine to communicate properly with a 7 bit terminal?

Mike




From [email protected]  Tue Feb 16 08:28:23 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA14889; Tue, 16 Feb 93 08:28:23 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA18571; Tue, 16 Feb 93 08:19:09 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from csgrad.cs.vt.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA18564; Tue, 16 Feb 93 08:19:05 -0800
Received: by csgrad.cs.vt.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3)
       id AA06394; Tue, 16 Feb 1993 11:18:47 -0500
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1993 11:09:02 -0500 (EST)
From: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pine, bytes and parity.
To: Mike Roch <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected], Hilary Vines x8437 <[email protected]>,
       Noel Lynch x8435 <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <6687.9302161123@suma1>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

Pine uses cbreak mode, at least on BSD based UNIX's, which I believe
implies the terminal driver generates the parity. The first thing to check
would be the tty parameters. If Pine where running in RAW more then it
would be different. Also, if you're running Pine on a System V box this
might be different, but I suspect the problem is still in the tty driver
settings.

It is a little different if you set the character-set parameter to
iso-8859-X. Then Pine sets up the tty a little different (stty pass8) and
expects 8 bit input. Otherwise Pine ignores all bits above the 7th. It
does this intentionally to be tolerant of incorrect parity settings. When
8 bit characters are used, obviously it can't ignore the eigth bit.

I guess I don't have an exact answer, but in general Pine doesn't know
much about the parity and number of bits sent.

LL


On Tue, 16 Feb 1993, Mike Roch wrote:

> We're having problems with some of our X25 connected terminals and Pine.
>
> Our comms expert tells me that all Pine output to the screen is 8 bit with
> the top bit unset; Pine demands that input is also in this form. We see no
> problems with telnet sessions, nor with serial terminals that are set to 8
> bit no parity.
>
> Is it possible for Pine to communicate properly with a 7 bit terminal?
>
> Mike
>
>





From [email protected]  Tue Feb 16 10:06:46 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA18595; Tue, 16 Feb 93 10:06:46 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA24880; Tue, 16 Feb 93 09:56:42 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from starburst.umd.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA24825; Tue, 16 Feb 93 09:56:36 -0800
Received: by starburst.umd.edu (NeXT-1.0 (From Sendmail 5.52)/NeXT-2.0)
       id AA08097; Tue, 16 Feb 93 12:54:11 EST
From: [email protected] (Jonathan Kruger)
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Subject: Port for BSDI?
To: [email protected]
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 93 12:54:10 EST
Organization: Chesapeake Biological Laboratory
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Status: O
X-Status:

Does anyone know if a port of Pine has been done or is underway for
BSDI?  The "build bsd" command gets you nowhere fast...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jonathan Kruger      |   "Nothing will benefit human health and increase the
[email protected]      |    chances for survival of life on earth as much as the
Chesapeake Bio Lab   |    evolution to a vegetarian diet."  --  Albert Einstein


From [email protected]  Thu Feb 18 07:37:52 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA10498; Thu, 18 Feb 93 07:37:52 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA27299; Thu, 18 Feb 93 07:24:57 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from lipschitz.sfasu.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA27292; Thu, 18 Feb 93 07:24:55 -0800
Received: by lipschitz.sfasu.edu (NX5.67c/NX3.0M)
       id AA01150; Thu, 18 Feb 93 09:24:37 -0600
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1993 09:23:46 -0600 (GMT-0600)
From: "Kelly Cunningham (Random Deviate)" <[email protected]>
Reply-To: "Kelly Cunningham (Random Deviate)" <[email protected]>
Subject: Continued NiXED support?
To: Pine Info List <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9302180926.A1138-8100000@lipschitz>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:


Will there be continued support of NeXT machines?

Does anyone out there have problems forwarding mail on a NeXT?
Pine sometimes dies with a "Segmentation fault" when I forward
mail.

-- kc






From [email protected]  Thu Feb 18 07:40:51 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA10534; Thu, 18 Feb 93 07:40:51 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA27388; Thu, 18 Feb 93 07:32:50 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from jester.usask.ca by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA27382; Thu, 18 Feb 93 07:32:34 -0800
Received: by jester.usask.ca (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C)
       id AA08089; Thu, 18 Feb 93 09:32:18 -0600 for [email protected]
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1993 09:21:39 -0600 (CST)
From: Earl Fogel <[email protected]>
Subject: maintaining mailing lists with Pine
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

One of our uses has been maintaining a mailing list with DISMAN on a VAX,
but has run into all sorts of problems with bounced and repeating messages.
He's asked us to set up LISTSERV software to use instead, but I wondered
if there was another alternative -- Pine.

So, what experiences do people have maintaining mailing lists with Pine?
How big are your mailing lists, and how well do they work? Is Pine-Info
maintained with Pine?

Thanks,

Earl Fogel
-------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected]           Computing Services, Room 56 Physics
Phone: (306) 966-4861           University of Saskatchewan
Fax:   (306) 966-4938           Saskatoon, Sask. CANADA, S7N 0W0




From [email protected]  Thu Feb 18 11:57:35 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17306; Thu, 18 Feb 93 11:57:35 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA23757; Thu, 18 Feb 93 11:46:22 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from mercury.unt.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA23713; Thu, 18 Feb 93 11:46:17 -0800
Received: from sol.acs.unt.edu by mercury.unt.edu with SMTP id AA25309
 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for <[email protected]>); Thu, 18 Feb 1993 13:46:14 -0600
Received: by sol.acs.unt.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1)
       id AA18392; Thu, 18 Feb 93 13:46:12 CST
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1993 13:43:54 -0600 (CST)
From: "Amos A. Gouaux" <[email protected]>
Subject: ispell-2.0.02 with pine/pico-3.05
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

Pine Folks:

We have just installed pine-3.05 on our Solbourne (sparc) 5e/902
running an adaptation of SunOS 4.1.1.  I would like to know how to
use ispell-2.0.02 with pine/pico.  I tried using the SPELL environmental
variable without luck.  I noticed the emacs interface calls ispell with
the "-A" option so I tired that too.  Is there any way I can get ispell
to work?

Please mail responses.  Thanks in advance.

amos


[email protected]                   Amos A. Gouaux                   (817) 565-2324
-= Academic Computing Services, University of North Texas, Denton, TX, USA. =-




From [email protected]  Thu Feb 18 13:26:36 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA19378; Thu, 18 Feb 93 13:26:36 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA04719; Thu, 18 Feb 93 13:16:43 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from nexus.yorku.ca by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA04669; Thu, 18 Feb 93 13:16:38 -0800
Received: from vortex.yorku.ca ([130.63.232.15]) by nexus.yorku.ca with SMTP id <9221>; Thu, 18 Feb 1993 16:16:23 -0500
Received: by vortex.yorku.ca (4.1/SMI-4.1)
       id AA11172; Thu, 18 Feb 93 16:18:19 EST
Date:   Thu, 18 Feb 1993 16:16:56 -0500
From: Ian Lumb <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: ispell-2.0.02 with pine/pico-3.05
To: PINE INFO <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

I have also tried this and obtained similar results :-( (In fact, I posted
a similar message to this group.) This would be a really **nice** feature
to add to pine ...

Ian.




--
Ian Lumb     Internet: <[email protected]>
Earth & Atmospheric Science, York University
North York, Ontario  M3J 1P3,  CANADA
Voice: (416) 736-5245; Fax: (416) 736-5817


On Thu, 18 Feb 1993, Amos A. Gouaux wrote:

> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1993 13:43:54 -0600 (CST)
> From: Amos A. Gouaux <[email protected]>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: ispell-2.0.02 with pine/pico-3.05
>
> Pine Folks:
>
> We have just installed pine-3.05 on our Solbourne (sparc) 5e/902
> running an adaptation of SunOS 4.1.1.  I would like to know how to
> use ispell-2.0.02 with pine/pico.  I tried using the SPELL environmental
> variable without luck.  I noticed the emacs interface calls ispell with
> the "-A" option so I tired that too.  Is there any way I can get ispell
> to work?
>
> Please mail responses.  Thanks in advance.
>
> amos
>
>
> [email protected]                   Amos A. Gouaux                   (817) 565-2324
> -= Academic Computing Services, University of North Texas, Denton, TX, USA. =-
>
>





From [email protected]  Thu Feb 18 14:50:16 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA21390; Thu, 18 Feb 93 14:50:16 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA10483; Thu, 18 Feb 93 14:41:34 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from shiva2.cac.washington.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA10426; Thu, 18 Feb 93 14:41:26 -0800
Received: by shiva2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22462; Thu, 18 Feb 93 14:41:19 -0800
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1993 14:05:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Seibel <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: ispell-2.0.02 with pine/pico-3.05
To: "Amos A. Gouaux" <[email protected]>, Ian Lumb <[email protected]>
Cc: PINE INFO <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

Thanks, to you both, for the suggestion!  Pine's integrated spelling
function is pretty limited right now, and improving this is on the list
for the future.

In the mean time, there's a neat work around courtesy of the "editor="
variable in your .pinerc.  Setting this to "ispell" (may need to specify
the full path), will cause the "^_ Alt Edit" label to appear on the key
prompt line when the cursor is in the body of your composition.  Hitting
ctrl-underscore will launch ispell on the contents of your message, and
drop you back into the composer with the new text when ispell exits.

Haven't played with this much myself, but I hope it helps...

Michael Seibel
Networks and Distributed Computing              [email protected]
University of Washington, Seattle               (206) 543 - 0359




From [email protected]  Thu Feb 18 16:42:20 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA24436; Thu, 18 Feb 93 16:42:20 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA02693; Thu, 18 Feb 93 16:35:14 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from norman.nwnet.net by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA02687; Thu, 18 Feb 93 16:35:12 -0800
Received: by norman.nwnet.net
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA25384; Thu, 18 Feb 93 16:35:12 -0800
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1993 16:29:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Bob Carlitz {NWNet} <[email protected]>
Subject: pine doesn't like Florida
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

Messages coming in from firn (the Florida school network) now cause pine to
die a horrible death.  Attached below is a sample.  Put this in a pine
folder, and you can see pine wither.  I have seen similar behavior under
SunOS and Ultrix, both with version 3.05.  The firn headers look a little
odd to me, but I don't see anything obviously wrong with them.  The
Alternate-recipient and Disclose-recipients headers are something new to
me.  I'm not sure if they have been part of the firn headers previously.

Cheers!
Bob Carlitz

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

>From [email protected] Tue Feb 16 13:02:52 1993
Received: from nic.cerf.net by hamlet.phyast.pitt.edu (4.1/1.34)
       id AA04879; Tue, 16 Feb 93 13:02:39 EST
Received: from FIRNVX.FIRN.EDU by nic.cerf.net (4.1/CERFnet-1.0)  id AA24264; Tue, 16 Feb 93 09:55:56 PST
Received: with SMTP-MR; Tue, 16 Feb 1993 12:54:55 EST
Mr-Received: by mta FIRNVX; Relayed; Tue, 16 Feb 1993 12:54:55 -0500 (EST)
Alternate-Recipient: prohibited
Disclose-Recipients: prohibited
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1993 17:46:00 EST
From: "Ann S. Johnson 813-361-6472, Ext. 31, ext. 32" <[email protected]>
Subject: Veil Joze
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type:
Posting-Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1993 17:52:00 EST
Importance: normal
Priority: normal
X400-Mts-Identifier: [;55452161203991/141602@FIRNVX]
A1-Format:
A1-Type: MAIL
Hop-Count: 0
Status: RO
X-Status:



Please send me more information on your project Veli Joze.  We are a middle
school in Sarasota, Florida, using the modem from the media center.  I am
wondering what our obligation would be in addition to the pen pal letters?  I
have 3 students interested in this project.  Would the letters be sent by
e-mail?  or by surface mail from our end?  Is this an open-ended project?  How
would replies from Veli Joze be received?  We really would like more
information.  Thanks,

Ann Johnson
media specialist
Brookside Middle School
3636 S. Shade Ave.
Sarasota, Fla.   34329






From [email protected]  Thu Feb 18 18:53:09 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA27293; Thu, 18 Feb 93 18:53:09 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA03583; Thu, 18 Feb 93 18:42:26 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA03577; Thu, 18 Feb 93 18:42:24 -0800
Received: from localhost by Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU
       (NX5.67c/UW-NDC Revision: 2.26 ) id AA04091; Thu, 18 Feb 93 18:42:20 -0800
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1993 18:33:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Subject: re: pine doesn't like Florida
To: Bob Carlitz {NWNet} <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="16819560-2078917053-730089740:#4070"
Status: O
X-Status:

--16819560-2078917053-730089740:#4070
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Bob -

    Thank you for your bug report, and for providing sample data that causes
the problem.  This problem is a c-client bug in handling invalid MIME data.

    The cause of the crash is evil data in the headers; the message claims to
be in MIME format (``Mime-Version: 1.0''), and there is a ``Content-Type:''
header line.  However, there is no data for that header.  The parser detected
the error and declined to attempt to parse the Content-Type: information.
Unfortunately, the error case was bundled with the ``not a Content-Type
header, try Content-Transfer-Encoding'' case, and it fell into that code with
invalid context.  The fix was to implement the error case separately.

    A patch to the c-client module rfc822.c is MIME attached to this message.
Please let me know if you need any assistance in installing this patch on your
system.

    If you could, please also ask your correspondent at Florida to inquire as
to what could be causing her mailer to send invalid MIME data to you.  I guess
this is an X.400/MIME gateway that is behind all this, but there is inadequate
information to be sure.

-- Mark --

--16819560-2078917053-730089740:#4070
Content-Type: APPLICATION/OCTET-DATA; NAME="rfc822.c.patch"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64
Content-Description: attached file
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--16819560-2078917053-730089740:#4070--


From [email protected]  Fri Feb 19 06:34:30 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA06096; Fri, 19 Feb 93 06:34:30 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA16775; Fri, 19 Feb 93 06:25:56 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from nexus.yorku.ca by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA16699; Fri, 19 Feb 93 06:25:47 -0800
Received: from vortex.yorku.ca ([130.63.232.15]) by nexus.yorku.ca with SMTP id <9225>; Fri, 19 Feb 1993 09:25:36 -0500
Received: by vortex.yorku.ca (4.1/SMI-4.1)
       id AA00529; Fri, 19 Feb 93 09:27:30 EST
Date:   Fri, 19 Feb 1993 09:25:39 -0500
From: Ian Lumb <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: ispell-2.0.02 with pine/pico-3.05
To: Michael Seibel <[email protected]>
Cc: "Amos A. Gouaux" <[email protected]>,
       PINE INFO <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

Thanks for the work around Mike. I can see that this has potential, but
I like to use this key to launch emacs; I can then access ispell from
within emacs. It would be nice to see this feature in a future release of
pine, and I am pleased that you have added this to your list :-)

Ian.




--
Ian Lumb     Internet: <[email protected]>
Earth & Atmospheric Science, York University
North York, Ontario  M3J 1P3,  CANADA
Voice: (416) 736-5245; Fax: (416) 736-5817


On Thu, 18 Feb 1993, Michael Seibel wrote:

> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1993 14:05:40 -0800 (PST)
> From: Michael Seibel <[email protected]>
> To: "Amos A. Gouaux" <[email protected]>, Ian Lumb <[email protected]>
> Cc: PINE INFO <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: ispell-2.0.02 with pine/pico-3.05
>
> Thanks, to you both, for the suggestion!  Pine's integrated spelling
> function is pretty limited right now, and improving this is on the list
> for the future.
>
> In the mean time, there's a neat work around courtesy of the "editor="
> variable in your .pinerc.  Setting this to "ispell" (may need to specify
> the full path), will cause the "^_ Alt Edit" label to appear on the key
> prompt line when the cursor is in the body of your composition.  Hitting
> ctrl-underscore will launch ispell on the contents of your message, and
> drop you back into the composer with the new text when ispell exits.
>
> Haven't played with this much myself, but I hope it helps...
>
> Michael Seibel
> Networks and Distributed Computing              [email protected]
> University of Washington, Seattle               (206) 543 - 0359
>
>





From [email protected]  Fri Feb 19 07:15:44 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA06721; Fri, 19 Feb 93 07:15:44 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA06648; Fri, 19 Feb 93 07:05:45 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from itd1.ul.ie by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA06642; Fri, 19 Feb 93 07:05:35 -0800
Received: from itdsrv1.ul.ie by ul.ie (PMDF #12091) id
<[email protected]>; Fri, 19 Feb 1993 15:01 GMT
Received: by itdsrv1.ul.ie (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA19970; Fri,
19 Feb 93 15:09:22 GMT
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1993 15:08:45 +0000 (WET)
From: Denis Hickey <[email protected]>
Subject: re: Problems with From address
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
To: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Cc: pine-info <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
X-Envelope-To: [email protected]
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Mime-Version: 1.0
Status: O
X-Status:


Thanks for the help on this matter. The problem has been fixed at the
offending gateway.

       Denis

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Denis Hickey    Information Technology Dept     Email: [email protected]
               University of Limerick          Phone: +353-61-333644
               Eire
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------



From [email protected]  Fri Feb 19 12:05:20 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA14539; Fri, 19 Feb 93 12:05:20 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA08548; Fri, 19 Feb 93 11:56:26 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from RUTGERS.EDU by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA08490; Fri, 19 Feb 93 11:56:20 -0800
Received: from mimsy.UUCP by rutgers.edu (5.59/SMI4.0/RU1.5/3.08) with UUCP
       id AA05597; Fri, 19 Feb 93 14:30:45 EST
Received: by mimsy.UMD.EDU (smail2.5)
       id AA06936; 19 Feb 93 14:30:23 EST (Fri)
Received: from ghost.uunet.ca (via uunet.ca) by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP
       (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA12811; Fri, 19 Feb 93 14:21:44 -0500
Received: from moore by mail.uunet.ca with UUCP id <9656(2)>; Fri, 19 Feb 1993 14:20:49 -0500
Received: by moore.moore.com (4.1/smail2.5/01-12-90)
       id AA17977; Fri, 19 Feb 93 14:19:48 EST
Date:   Fri, 19 Feb 1993 14:15:52 -0500
From: Paul Maclauchlan <[email protected]>
Subject: Address expansion
To: Pine Info mailing list <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9302191452.A17898-9100000@moore>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:


In the "COMPOSE MESSAGE" screen, typing a nickname from the address book
returns the full address and full name.  In ELM, the same expansion
happens when a local user name is entered.

Can this feature be added to PINE, either as default behaviour or as an
option?

--
../Paul Maclauchlan
Moore Corporation Limited, Toronto, Ontario (416) 364-2600
[email protected]   -or-  {...!uunet.ca,...!telly}!moore!paul
"For tomorrow may rain so I'll follow the sun."/JL&PMcC'64




From [email protected]  Fri Feb 19 13:56:29 1993
Received: by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA18595; Fri, 19 Feb 93 13:56:29 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from tsippi.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA18587; Fri, 19 Feb 93 13:56:15 -0800
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1993 13:49:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Sheryl Erez <[email protected]>
Subject: re: maintaining mailing lists with Pine
To: Earl Fogel <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

Earl,

Pine was not designed to handle the administration of mailing lists.
Some people use the addressbook feature for very small lists, but that's
about it.

We have lots of mailing lists (including pine-info) and have turned
to other software to manage them.  We use a program called Majordomo
for managing the pine-info list.

                      Sheryl Erez
                        [email protected]
                          UW Network Information Center

On Thu, 18 Feb 1993 09:21:39 -0600 (CST), Earl Fogel wrote:

> Subject: maintaining mailing lists with Pine
> To: [email protected]
>
> One of our uses has been maintaining a mailing list with DISMAN on a VAX,
> but has run into all sorts of problems with bounced and repeating messages.
> He's asked us to set up LISTSERV software to use instead, but I wondered
> if there was another alternative -- Pine.
>
> So, what experiences do people have maintaining mailing lists with Pine?
> How big are your mailing lists, and how well do they work? Is Pine-Info
> maintained with Pine?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Earl Fogel
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> [email protected]         Computing Services, Room 56 Physics
> Phone: (306) 966-4861         University of Saskatchewan
> Fax:   (306) 966-4938         Saskatoon, Sask. CANADA, S7N 0W0



From [email protected]  Fri Feb 19 19:54:33 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA25377; Fri, 19 Feb 93 19:54:33 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA12717; Fri, 19 Feb 93 19:47:31 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from csgrad.cs.vt.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA12711; Fri, 19 Feb 93 19:47:28 -0800
Received: by csgrad.cs.vt.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3)
       id AA14730; Fri, 19 Feb 1993 22:47:00 -0500
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1993 22:43:28 -0500 (EST)
From: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Address expansion
To: Paul Maclauchlan <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Info mailing list <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9302191452.A17898-9100000@moore>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

Hello,

Pine should do that now. I believe there is one case where it won't do
it -- when you explicity set the user-domain in the
/usr/local/lib/pine.conf file to be different from the local domain. In
this case Pine decides that it doesn't make sense to expand the names.
Are you setting user-domain or use-only-domain-name?

LL

On Fri, 19 Feb 1993, Paul Maclauchlan wrote:
>
> In the "COMPOSE MESSAGE" screen, typing a nickname from the address book
> returns the full address and full name.  In ELM, the same expansion
> happens when a local user name is entered.
>
> Can this feature be added to PINE, either as default behaviour or as an
> option?
>
> --
> .../Paul Maclauchlan
> Moore Corporation Limited, Toronto, Ontario (416) 364-2600
> [email protected]   -or-  {...!uunet.ca,...!telly}!moore!paul
> "For tomorrow may rain so I'll follow the sun."/JL&PMcC'64
>
>





From [email protected]  Fri Feb 19 20:06:07 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA25559; Fri, 19 Feb 93 20:06:07 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA03992; Fri, 19 Feb 93 19:59:58 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from nexus.yorku.ca by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA03949; Fri, 19 Feb 93 19:59:53 -0800
Received: from vortex.yorku.ca ([130.63.232.15]) by nexus.yorku.ca with SMTP id <9221>; Fri, 19 Feb 1993 22:59:47 -0500
Received: by vortex.yorku.ca (4.1/SMI-4.1)
       id AA02330; Fri, 19 Feb 93 23:01:48 EST
Date:   Fri, 19 Feb 1993 22:52:36 -0500
From: Ian Lumb <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Ian Lumb <[email protected]>
Subject: global addressbooks via imapd ???
To: PINE INFO <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

Greetings:-

We have recently had some interesting discussions re: global addressbooks
under pine. Perhaps an addition to our discussion, would be to allow
access to addressbooks via imapd.

For example, suppose I decide that fred.yorku.ca will be the host that I
will use for storing my mail messages, and where I will keep my
addressbook. If I am doing some work on barney.yorku.ca, it would be
really nice if the .addressbook on fred.yorku.ca could be consulted via
something analogous to imapd for my mail aliases. Currently, I update my
addressbook on fred.yorku.ca, and manually (**gasp**) ftp a copy over to
my account on barney.yorku.ca.

Ian.



--
Ian Lumb     Internet: <[email protected]>
Earth & Atmospheric Science, York University
North York, Ontario  M3J 1P3,  CANADA
Voice: (416) 736-5245; Fax: (416) 736-5817






From [email protected]  Sun Feb 21 09:00:26 1993
Received: by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17299; Sun, 21 Feb 93 09:00:26 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17213; Sun, 21 Feb 93 08:50:37 -0800
Received: by ListDist v0.2 for /usr/local/lib/pine-announce.cf
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17207; Sun, 21 Feb 93 08:50:35 -0800
Received: from shiva2.cac.washington.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA00276; Sun, 21 Feb 93 08:50:31 -0800
Received: by shiva2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA11075; Sun, 21 Feb 93 08:50:27 -0800
Reply-To: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Date:       Sun, 21 Feb 1993 08:47:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Gray <[email protected]>
To: Pine Announcement Distribution <[email protected]>
Subject:    Re: Pine 3.05 on an RS6000
X-Owner:    [email protected]
X-To:       Glenn Leavell <[email protected]>
X-Cc:       Raoul Villalpando <[email protected]>, [email protected],
       [email protected]
Status: O
X-Status:

This has sort of become an FAQ, so here is the current status...

-teg

------------------

The next pine release will have a proper AIX 3.2 port, but unfortunately,
it won't be ready for a couple of months.

The good news is, the AIX 3.2 port contributor, John Eisenmenger at Duke,
has made a port of the current pine version, v3.05, available to the net.
A copy is available via anonymous ftp from ftp.egr.duke.edu in the
directory "archives/network" under the filename "pine3.05a.tar.Z".









From [email protected]  Sun Feb 21 14:31:07 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA20825; Sun, 21 Feb 93 14:31:07 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA26418; Sun, 21 Feb 93 14:17:17 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from dns1.NMSU.Edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA26372; Sun, 21 Feb 93 14:17:12 -0800
From: [email protected]
Received: from dante (dante.NMSU.Edu) by NMSU.Edu (4.1/NMSU-1.18)
       id AA28225; Sun, 21 Feb 93 15:17:09 MST
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Received: by dante (4.1/NMSU)
       id AA24114; Sun, 21 Feb 93 15:17:04 MST
Subject: I am no longer in charge of Pine, please unsub
To: [email protected]
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 93 15:17:03 MST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Status: O
X-Status:

I am no longer in charge of Pine and would like to be unsubscribed from
the list.  I have enjoyed the support offered for Pine and wish that
other applications offered the same.  If this gets out to everyone on
the list, I apologize to you for having to read it... I don't know where
else to send it to.

Sorry bout using ELM for this, Pine is being rebuilt on another disk and
I don't have access to it yet :)

Good health to you!             Trevor Baker              [email protected]
I'm a student:  donations and gifts of money or food graciously accepted!


From [email protected]  Sun Feb 21 17:13:08 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22376; Sun, 21 Feb 93 17:13:08 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA21885; Sun, 21 Feb 93 17:05:41 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA21879; Sun, 21 Feb 93 17:05:39 -0800
Received: from localhost by Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU
       (NX5.67c/UW-NDC Revision: 2.26 ) id AA08597; Sun, 21 Feb 93 17:05:34 -0800
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1993 16:53:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Subject: re: global addressbooks via imapd ???
To: Ian Lumb <[email protected]>
Cc: PINE INFO <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

Ian -

    Thank you for your suggestion.  The idea of distributing address book
information has been on the list of ideas for a long time.  You aren't the
only person who has been annoyed by having to FTP around copies of the address
book every time a trivial update is made!!

    It isn't necessarily desirable to do it in imapd, since you may want to
distribute address book information in non-IMAP environments as well.  Also,
you may have multiple IMAP servers in an organization which will give you all
the problems that having separate address books on clients would.

    In the draft IMSP (IMAP support protocol) definition I read, CMU suggests
that address books may be part of directory service.  This makes a lot of
sense to me.

    In any case, I think we will need to do something about distributing
address books.  I hope it's ``sooner'' rather than ``later''!  ;-)

-- Mark --



From [email protected]  Mon Feb 22 12:03:11 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA09292; Mon, 22 Feb 93 12:03:11 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA07398; Mon, 22 Feb 93 11:42:16 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from RUTGERS.EDU by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA07348; Mon, 22 Feb 93 11:42:09 -0800
Received: from mimsy.UUCP by rutgers.edu (5.59/SMI4.0/RU1.5/3.08) with UUCP
       id AA23050; Mon, 22 Feb 93 13:08:48 EST
Received: by mimsy.UMD.EDU (smail2.5)
       id AA26717; 22 Feb 93 13:08:16 EST (Mon)
Received: from ghost.uunet.ca (via uunet.ca) by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP
       (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA25925; Mon, 22 Feb 93 13:04:46 -0500
Received: from moore by mail.uunet.ca with UUCP id <9645(3)>; Mon, 22 Feb 1993 13:04:41 -0500
Received: by moore.moore.com (4.1/smail2.5/01-12-90)
       id AA07552; Mon, 22 Feb 93 13:03:45 EST
Date:   Mon, 22 Feb 1993 12:58:04 -0500
From: Paul Maclauchlan <paul%[email protected]>
Subject: Printing and Windows
To: Pine Info mailing list <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9302221204.A7444-a100000@moore>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:


One of my users is having problems printing Pine stuff via ProComm Plus
for Windows.

For example, say he wants to print one of the help screens... he gets the
screen up on his display and presses L.  The Windows Print Manager is
started but nothing is printed.

Ok, so he tries to use the "Capture" facility to log the session.  Only
the first screen and the last screen appear in the log, even if all the
help pages displayed on his screen.

Any ideas?

BTW, we have had no problems using ProComm or ProComm Plus in DOS.

--
../Paul Maclauchlan
Moore Corporation Limited, Toronto, Ontario (416) 364-2600
[email protected]   -or-  {...!uunet.ca,...!telly}!moore!paul
"For tomorrow may rain so I'll follow the sun."/JL&PMcC'64




From [email protected]  Mon Feb 22 14:02:48 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA13980; Mon, 22 Feb 93 14:02:48 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA28582; Mon, 22 Feb 93 13:54:13 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from lipschitz.sfasu.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA28576; Mon, 22 Feb 93 13:54:04 -0800
Received: by lipschitz.sfasu.edu (NX5.67c/NX3.0M)
       id AA04519; Mon, 22 Feb 93 15:53:35 -0600
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1993 15:45:53 -0600 (GMT-0600)
From: "Kelly Cunningham (Random Deviate)" <[email protected]>
Reply-To: "Kelly Cunningham (Random Deviate)" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Printing and Windows
To: Pine Info mailing list <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9302221204.A7444-a100000@moore>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9302221514.C4445-b100000@lipschitz>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:



On Mon, 22 Feb 1993, Paul Maclauchlan wrote:

>
> One of my users is having problems printing Pine stuff via ProComm Plus
> for Windows.
>
> For example, say he wants to print one of the help screens... he gets the
> screen up on his display and presses L.  The Windows Print Manager is
> started but nothing is printed.
>
> Ok, so he tries to use the "Capture" facility to log the session.  Only
> the first screen and the last screen appear in the log, even if all the
> help pages displayed on his screen.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> BTW, we have had no problems using ProComm or ProComm Plus in DOS.
>
> --
> .../Paul Maclauchlan
> Moore Corporation Limited, Toronto, Ontario (416) 364-2600
> [email protected]   -or-  {...!uunet.ca,...!telly}!moore!paul
> "For tomorrow may rain so I'll follow the sun."/JL&PMcC'64
>
>

Try the "Capture" facility in conjuction with the "attached-to-ansi" Pine
print option.  I use Zterm to connect a Mac to a NeXT. The "attached-to-ansi"
and "Capture text..."  writes the message to a file which I print later.

-- kc

P.S. Forwarding and Replying still randomly result in a Segmentation fault.




From [email protected]  Mon Feb 22 14:30:44 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA14870; Mon, 22 Feb 93 14:30:44 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA28822; Mon, 22 Feb 93 14:20:30 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from nysernet.org by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA28814; Mon, 22 Feb 93 14:20:25 -0800
Received: by nysernet.ORG (5.65/3.1.090690-NYSERnet Inc.)
       id AA14084; Mon, 22 Feb 93 16:25:45 -0500
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1993 16:23:58 -0500 (EST)
From: Alan Rowoth <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Printing and Windows
To: Paul Maclauchlan <paul%[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Info mailing list <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9302221204.A7444-a100000@moore>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

Many terminal programs have to be told to capture upon receipt of the
screen "clear" character instead of as the material scrolls off the
screen. That solved the problem for me on a couple of different programs.
There are a zillion options to pcplus, I don't know where they hide that
one, but I am certain they would support it.

good luck,
Alan

--
=========================================================================
Alan Rowoth             |"I know what she's thinking, know what she'd say
Liverpool Public Library| That my life and hers are like night and day
310 Tulip Street        | And her love is the love that will save him
Liverpool, NY 13088-4997| Brave words, but I don't believe them.
315.457-0310 ext. 251   | I'd be stronger, wouldn't stay 1 minute longer
315.453.7867 fax        | ...I would be stronger than that."
[email protected]      |-Maura O'Connell "I Would Be Stronger Than That"


On Mon, 22 Feb 1993, Paul Maclauchlan wrote:

>
> One of my users is having problems printing Pine stuff via ProComm Plus
> for Windows.
>
> For example, say he wants to print one of the help screens... he gets the
> screen up on his display and presses L.  The Windows Print Manager is
> started but nothing is printed.
>
> Ok, so he tries to use the "Capture" facility to log the session.  Only
> the first screen and the last screen appear in the log, even if all the
> help pages displayed on his screen.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> BTW, we have had no problems using ProComm or ProComm Plus in DOS.
>
> --
> .../Paul Maclauchlan
> Moore Corporation Limited, Toronto, Ontario (416) 364-2600
> [email protected]   -or-  {...!uunet.ca,...!telly}!moore!paul
> "For tomorrow may rain so I'll follow the sun."/JL&PMcC'64
>
>





From [email protected]  Wed Feb 24 01:11:49 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA26857; Wed, 24 Feb 93 01:11:49 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA09115; Wed, 24 Feb 93 01:02:20 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from sussdirt.rdg.ac.uk by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA09109; Wed, 24 Feb 93 01:02:18 -0800
Received: from reading.ac.uk by susssys1.reading.ac.uk with SMTP (PP)
         id <[email protected]>; Wed, 24 Feb 1993 09:00:31 +0000
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1993 09:01:34 +0000 (GMT)
From: Mike Roch <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Mike Roch <[email protected]>
Subject: Local help file (/usr/local/lib/pine.info)
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9302231421.A8742-b101000@suma1>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="587204512-192296755-730544553:#23293"
Status: O
X-Status:

--587204512-192296755-730544553:#23293
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

We've just put up a local help file and find that most of the standard
help has disappeared! We get the main heading and contents list, then
the local page, then help on folders. That's it.

What's happened?

Mike

===================================================================
Mike Roch, Computer Services Centre,         [email protected]
University of Reading,                             Tel: 0734 318430
Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AX.                    Fax: 0734 753094






--587204512-192296755-730544553:#23293
Content-Type: APPLICATION/octet-stream; name="pine.info"
Content-ID: <Pine.3.05.9302240933.A23293@suma1>
Content-Description: Our local help file


       University of Reading Computer Services Centre

This is Pine, a public-domain (i.e. freely available) mail program
that originated in the University of Washington. Pine was designed for
novice computer users; for this reason it offers fewer facilities than
some other electronic mail tools.

If you have problems using Pine at Reading, telephone the CSC Advisory
helpline on Reading 317145 between 9:30-12.00 or 2.30-5.00 on
weekdays, or (if possible) mail a message to [email protected].

Typing   man pine   at the Unix prompt will produce a manual entry
for Pine, listing its command line options and other parameters that
you can set for yourself.

A background document, "pine-tech-notes" in several formats can be found
in /usr/local/lib.

Mike Roch
14/09/92

--587204512-192296755-730544553:#23293--



From [email protected]  Wed Feb 24 05:04:12 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA00349; Wed, 24 Feb 93 05:04:12 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA12213; Wed, 24 Feb 93 04:51:23 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from csgrad.cs.vt.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA12207; Wed, 24 Feb 93 04:51:21 -0800
Received: by csgrad.cs.vt.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3)
       id AA01551; Wed, 24 Feb 1993 07:50:51 -0500
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1993 07:49:28 -0500 (EST)
From: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Local help file (/usr/local/lib/pine.info)
To: Mike Roch <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9302231421.A8742-b101000@suma1>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="587204512-192296755-730544553:#23293"
Status: O
X-Status:

--587204512-192296755-730544553:#23293
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

There's a bug in Pine 3.05 that will cause weird things to happen if the
custom help text is longer than the place holder text that's there now.
That's about 19 lines. I think you're just over that. Let us know if this
solves the problem or not.

LL


On Wed, 24 Feb 1993, Mike Roch wrote:

> We've just put up a local help file and find that most of the standard
> help has disappeared! We get the main heading and contents list, then
> the local page, then help on folders. That's it.
>
> What's happened?
>
> Mike
>
> ===================================================================
> Mike Roch, Computer Services Centre,         [email protected]
> University of Reading,                             Tel: 0734 318430
> Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AX.                    Fax: 0734 753094
>
>
>
>
>
>


--587204512-192296755-730544553:#23293
Content-Type: APPLICATION/OCTET-STREAM; NAME="pine.info"
Content-ID: <Pine.3.05.9302240933.A23293@suma1>
Content-Description: Our local help file


       University of Reading Computer Services Centre

This is Pine, a public-domain (i.e. freely available) mail program
that originated in the University of Washington. Pine was designed for
novice computer users; for this reason it offers fewer facilities than
some other electronic mail tools.

If you have problems using Pine at Reading, telephone the CSC Advisory
helpline on Reading 317145 between 9:30-12.00 or 2.30-5.00 on
weekdays, or (if possible) mail a message to [email protected].

Typing   man pine   at the Unix prompt will produce a manual entry
for Pine, listing its command line options and other parameters that
you can set for yourself.

A background document, "pine-tech-notes" in several formats can be found
in /usr/local/lib.

Mike Roch
14/09/92


--587204512-192296755-730544553:#23293--



From [email protected]  Wed Feb 24 06:52:55 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA01673; Wed, 24 Feb 93 06:52:55 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA10679; Wed, 24 Feb 93 06:40:23 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from sussdirt.rdg.ac.uk by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA10673; Wed, 24 Feb 93 06:40:20 -0800
Received: from reading.ac.uk by susssys1.reading.ac.uk with SMTP (PP)
         id <[email protected]>; Wed, 24 Feb 1993 14:38:32 +0000
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1993 14:39:16 +0000 (GMT)
From: Mike Roch <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Local help file (/usr/local/lib/pine.info)
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9302241408.B6216-9100000@suma1>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="587204512-192296755-730544553:#23293"
Status: O
X-Status:

--587204512-192296755-730544553:#23293
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

On Wed, 24 Feb 1993, Laurence Lundblade wrote:
> There's a bug in Pine 3.05 that will cause weird things to happen if the
> custom help text is longer than the place holder text that's there now.
> That's about 19 lines. I think you're just over that. Let us know if this
> solves the problem or not.

Yes, that fixed it. Thanks

Mike

--587204512-192296755-730544553:#23293--



From [email protected]  Wed Feb 24 17:52:48 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA20258; Wed, 24 Feb 93 17:52:48 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA16768; Wed, 24 Feb 93 17:43:38 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from RUTGERS.EDU by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA16762; Wed, 24 Feb 93 17:43:30 -0800
Received: from mimsy.UUCP by rutgers.edu (5.59/SMI4.0/RU1.5/3.08) with UUCP
       id AA29187; Wed, 24 Feb 93 18:56:18 EST
Received: by mimsy.UMD.EDU (smail2.5)
       id AA29936; 24 Feb 93 18:56:09 EST (Wed)
Received: from ghost.uunet.ca (via uunet.ca) by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP
       (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA18670; Wed, 24 Feb 93 18:43:01 -0500
Received: from moore by mail.uunet.ca with UUCP id <9769(2)>; Wed, 24 Feb 1993 18:37:29 -0500
Received: by moore.moore.com (4.1/smail2.5/01-12-90)
       id AA21612; Wed, 24 Feb 93 18:36:14 EST
Date:   Wed, 24 Feb 1993 18:30:19 -0500
From: Paul Maclauchlan <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Printing and Windows
To: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Info mailing list <[email protected]>,
       Chris Box - CHO <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9302241811.A21250-c100000@moore>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:



Here is the solution one of my users found (thanks for the hint):

> From: [email protected] (Chris Box)
> To: [email protected]
> Cc: paul (Paul Maclauchlan)
> Subject: Procomm: Capturing the PINE Help File
>
> Hi Ricardo!
>
> I've figured out ONE way of capturing the help file.
>
> In Procomm Plus for Windows, click on the Setup icon.  Click on the
> "Capture" button, and then click "Advanced".  Under the advanced options,
> there is a check box labelled "Write filtered text with no emulation
> escapes".  Click on that box.
>
> This will set up a capture file that you specify, capturing *only* the
> text that appears on the screen.  I found that it worked well.
>
> If you have any problems, drop me a line!
>
> Chris

So, there is the answer!

--
../Paul Maclauchlan
Moore Corporation Limited, Toronto, Ontario (416) 364-2600
[email protected]   -or-  {...!uunet.ca,...!telly}!moore!paul
"Or am I just the last surviving friend that you know?"/EJ&BT'73


On Wed, 24 Feb 1993, Laurence Lundblade wrote:

> Sounds like you need a Windows/Procomm expert more than a Pine expert.
> Personally I'd like to hear the end of the story. I was getting close to
> putting done my $100 for Procomm for Windows. Thanks for any more details
> you have.
>
> LL
>
>
> On Mon, 22 Feb 1993, Paul Maclauchlan wrote:
>
> >
> > One of my users is having problems printing Pine stuff via ProComm Plus
> > for Windows.
> >
> > For example, say he wants to print one of the help screens... he gets the
> > screen up on his display and presses L.  The Windows Print Manager is
> > started but nothing is printed.
> >
> > Ok, so he tries to use the "Capture" facility to log the session.  Only
> > the first screen and the last screen appear in the log, even if all the
> > help pages displayed on his screen.
> >
> > Any ideas?
> >
> > BTW, we have had no problems using ProComm or ProComm Plus in DOS.
> >
> > --
> > .../Paul Maclauchlan
> > Moore Corporation Limited, Toronto, Ontario (416) 364-2600
> > [email protected]   -or-  {...!uunet.ca,...!telly}!moore!paul
> > "For tomorrow may rain so I'll follow the sun."/JL&PMcC'64
> >
> >
>
>
>



../Paul Maclauchlan
Moore Corporation Limited, Toronto, Ontario (416) 364-2600
[email protected]   -or-  {...!uunet.ca,...!telly}!moore!paul
"Or am I just the last surviving friend that you know?"/EJ&BT'73




From [email protected]  Wed Feb 24 21:01:53 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22627; Wed, 24 Feb 93 21:01:53 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17565; Wed, 24 Feb 93 20:52:35 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from nexus.yorku.ca by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17559; Wed, 24 Feb 93 20:52:29 -0800
Received: from vortex.yorku.ca ([130.63.232.15]) by nexus.yorku.ca with SMTP id <9221>; Wed, 24 Feb 1993 23:52:25 -0500
Received: by vortex.yorku.ca (4.1/SMI-4.1)
       id AA04617; Wed, 24 Feb 93 23:54:21 EST
Date:   Wed, 24 Feb 1993 23:51:44 -0500
From: Ian Lumb <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: PC mail software
To: Jianxin Jiang <[email protected]>
Cc: PINE INFO <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

Greetings Jianxin:-

There's a pc version of pine that should be ready in a few months, I
believe, that might serve your purposes.

Ian.




--
Ian Lumb     Internet: <[email protected]>
Earth & Atmospheric Science, York University
North York, Ontario  M3J 1P3,  CANADA
Voice: (416) 736-5245; Fax: (416) 736-5817


On Wed, 24 Feb 1993, Jianxin Jiang wrote:

> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1993 15:22:38 -0500
> From: Jianxin Jiang <[email protected]>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: PC mail software
>
>
> Hello,
>
>     I have two PC's using Sun's PC-NFS. A Sun IPC runs pcnfsd. And I am looking
> for mail software that supports SMTP, or anything better than the SEND/LISTENER
> from PC-NFS.
>
>     PC-NFS only enables PC's to run as NFS clients. Anybody has anything that
> can also let the PC's be NFS servers for Unix and/or PC clients? Ideally, It
> will be nice have something that does NOT conflict with PC-NFS. Thanks a lot
> and I will summarize.
>
>                                               Jiang





From [email protected]  Thu Feb 25 02:36:17 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA27104; Thu, 25 Feb 93 02:36:17 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA20267; Thu, 25 Feb 93 02:06:58 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA20261; Thu, 25 Feb 93 02:06:51 -0800
Received: by inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com; id AA01427; Thu, 25 Feb 93 00:28:26 -0800
Received: by vbohub.vbo.dec.com (5.65/fma-100391);
       id AA28036; Thu, 25 Feb 1993 09:28:22 +0100
Received: by nova15.vbo.dec.com (5.57/fma-100391);
       id AA16028; Thu, 25 Feb 93 09:30:31 +0100
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1993 09:20:29 +0100 (French Winter)
From: Francois Donze <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Francois Donze <[email protected]>
Subject: Accented chars
To: Info Pine <[email protected]>
Cc: Francois Donze <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE
Status: O
X-Status:


I have little problems to create mails with accentuated chars and to=3D20
read mails with such chars. I tried many combinations in .pinerc
and pine.conf but failed. It seems that I can't set ISO char in=20
my mails.

for example, if I compose a message with an =E9 ( e with acute accent ),=20
and then I postpone it, when I get it back the letter is changed
in =3DE29.=20

If I receive a mail with such an accent, I read i which is the 7-bit=20
corresponding char.=20

The above happens when I choose ISO-8859-1 and show-all-characters=3Dyes=20

My system is a DECstation 5000/240 running Ultrix 4.2A.

Any idea?
/francois



From [email protected]  Thu Feb 25 02:51:56 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA27293; Thu, 25 Feb 93 02:51:56 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA20337; Thu, 25 Feb 93 02:20:36 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA20331; Thu, 25 Feb 93 02:20:34 -0800
Received: by inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com; id AA08247; Thu, 25 Feb 93 02:20:14 -0800
Received: by vbohub.vbo.dec.com (5.65/fma-100391);
       id AA29311; Thu, 25 Feb 1993 11:19:54 +0100
Received: by nova15.vbo.dec.com (5.57/fma-100391);
       id AA16109; Thu, 25 Feb 93 11:22:04 +0100
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1993 10:52:34 +0100 (French Winter)
From: Francois Donze <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: PC mail software
To: [email protected]
Cc: Jianxin Jiang <[email protected]>,
       PINE INFO <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: (null)
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:


I am currently purchasing Chameleon from NetManage which seems to solve
many problems; this soft is recommended by the BYTE magazine of Feb 93.

It is a TCP/IP-NFS client AND server designed exclusively for MS-Windows.
There is a Software development kit (add on) as well and RPC access.
Here are some features:

- 6 KB of base memory
- Windows cut-and-paste, drag-and-drop, point-and-click
- NDIS tcp/ip (thus, coexistence with Novell, DECnet....)
- NFS file and Printer Sharing (server and client concurently)
- snmp extensible agent
- smtp, pop2 with address book
- ftp, tftp
- Telnet emulation (vt52, vt100, vt220, ANSI)
- TN3270 (3278 mode 2)
- Static routing over Ethernet, Token Ring, SLIP, FDDI
- DNS client
- Ping, Finger
- ...

Price: US$495

Contact:
NetManage Inc., 20823 Stevens Creek Blvd. Suite 100, Cupertino, CA 95014 USA
Tel: (408) 973-7171
Fax: (408) 257-6405


On Thu, 25 Feb 1993 [email protected]@nova15.vbo.dec.com wrote:

> Greetings Jianxin:-
>
> There's a pc version of pine that should be ready in a few months, I
> believe, that might serve your purposes.
>
> Ian.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Ian Lumb     Internet: <[email protected]>
> Earth & Atmospheric Science, York University
> North York, Ontario  M3J 1P3,  CANADA
> Voice: (416) 736-5245; Fax: (416) 736-5817
>
>
> On Wed, 24 Feb 1993, Jianxin Jiang wrote:
>
> > Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1993 15:22:38 -0500
> > From: Jianxin Jiang <[email protected]>
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: PC mail software
> >
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> >     I have two PC's using Sun's PC-NFS. A Sun IPC runs pcnfsd. And I am looking
> > for mail software that supports SMTP, or anything better than the SEND/LISTENER
> > from PC-NFS.
> >
> >     PC-NFS only enables PC's to run as NFS clients. Anybody has anything that
> > can also let the PC's be NFS servers for Unix and/or PC clients? Ideally, It
> > will be nice have something that does NOT conflict with PC-NFS. Thanks a lot
> > and I will summarize.
> >
> >                                             Jiang
>
>
>
>
> % ====== Internet headers and postmarks (see DECWRL::GATEWAY.DOC) ======
> % Received: by vbormc.vbo.dec.com; id AA02007; Thu, 25 Feb 93 10:46:20 +0100
> % Received: by enet-gw.pa.dec.com; id AA21814; Wed, 24 Feb 93 21:14:19 -0800
> % Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17565; Wed, 24 Feb 93 20:52:35 -080
> % Errors-To: [email protected]
> % Sender: [email protected]
> % Received: from nexus.yorku.ca by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17559; Wed, 24 Feb 93 20:52:29 -080
> % Received: from vortex.yorku.ca ([130.63.232.15]) by nexus.yorku.ca with SMTP id <9221>; Wed, 24 Feb 1993 23:52:25 -0500
> % Received: by vortex.yorku.ca (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA04617; Wed, 24 Feb 93 23:54:21 ES
> % Date:       Wed, 24 Feb 1993 23:51:44 -0500
> % From: Ian Lumb <[email protected]>
> % Subject: Re: PC mail software
> % To: Jianxin Jiang <[email protected]>
> % Cc: PINE INFO <[email protected]>
> % In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
> % Message-Id: <[email protected]>
> % Mime-Version: 1.0
> % Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII




From [email protected]  Thu Feb 25 05:51:12 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA29520; Thu, 25 Feb 93 05:51:12 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA19591; Thu, 25 Feb 93 05:19:03 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from danpost4.uni-c.dk by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA19585; Thu, 25 Feb 93 05:19:00 -0800
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Received: from danpost4.uni-c.dk by danpost4.uni-c.dk
         id <[email protected]>; Thu, 25 Feb 1993 14:16:49 +0100
Subject: Re: Accented chars
To: [email protected]
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1993 14:16:47 +0100 (MET)
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]> from "Francois Donze" at Feb 25, 93 09:20:29 am
Organisation: UNI-C, Danish Computer Centre for Research and Education
X-Address: Building 305 DTH, DK-2800 Lyngby, Denmark
X-Phone: +45 45 93 83 55
X-Fax: +45 45 93 02 20
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 742
From: Erik Lawaetz <[email protected]>
Status: O
X-Status:

Francois Donze writes:

> for example, if I compose a message with an =E9 ( e with acute accent ),
> and then I postpone it, when I get it back the letter is changed
> in =E29.

This happens, as far as I understand PINE, because PINE immediately
interprets your input and converts it to MIME's quoted-printable
encoding before writing it to the mail file. The problem is, that it's
not redisplayed the way you would expect when you resume editing a
postponed mail, and consequently you suddenly see the quoted-printable
stuff.

> If I receive a mail with such an accent, I read i which is the 7-bit
> corresponding char.

This should be a terminal problem since it's a problem with
bitstripping. You need stty -istrip, maybe more.

--Erik




From [email protected]  Thu Feb 25 08:18:05 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA01868; Thu, 25 Feb 93 08:18:05 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA20290; Thu, 25 Feb 93 07:46:17 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from itep.itep.br by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA20284; Thu, 25 Feb 93 07:46:10 -0800
Received: from di.ufpe.br (recife.di.ufpe.br) by itep.itep.br (PMDF #12039) id
<[email protected]>; Thu, 25 Feb 1993 11:38 -0300
Received: from moreno.di.ufpe.br by di.ufpe.br (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA01393; Thu,
25 Feb 93 11:35:25 EST
Received: by moreno.di.ufpe.br (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02571; Thu,
25 Feb 93 11:35:25 EST
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1993 11:31:12 -0300 (EST)
From: Alcino Dall Igna Junior <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: PC mail software
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
To: PINE INFO <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9302251110.B2542-a100000@moreno>
X-Envelope-To: [email protected]
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Mime-Version: 1.0
Status: O
X-Status:

I'm using a PC connected via phone (bitcom/windows) to a vax/vms. Could
the pc-pine be used with this software? (or maybe telix, or telemate)
There are a beta version?

Alcino Dall Igna Junior
Universidade Federal de Alagoas         [email protected]
Universidade Federal de Pernambuco      [email protected]

On Wed, 24 Feb 1993, Ian Lumb wrote:

> Greetings Jianxin:-
>
> There's a pc version of pine that should be ready in a few months, I
> believe, that might serve your purposes.
>
> Ian.
>
> --
> Ian Lumb     Internet: <[email protected]>
> Earth & Atmospheric Science, York University
> North York, Ontario  M3J 1P3,  CANADA
> Voice: (416) 736-5245; Fax: (416) 736-5817
>
>





From [email protected]  Thu Feb 25 08:56:38 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA03141; Thu, 25 Feb 93 08:56:38 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA20545; Thu, 25 Feb 93 08:20:10 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from csgrad.cs.vt.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA20538; Thu, 25 Feb 93 08:20:06 -0800
Received: by csgrad.cs.vt.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3)
       id AA25812; Thu, 25 Feb 1993 11:19:57 -0500
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1993 11:18:24 -0500 (EST)
From: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Accented chars
To: Erik Lawaetz <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected], [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status:

Yes, I believe there's some definite bugs in Pine when postpoing messages
with 8 bit characters in them. There's also a bug in Pine 3.05 for
displaying 8 bit characters on some systems. I don't have the patched
handy, but there are patched for it.

LL


On Thu, 25 Feb 1993, Erik Lawaetz wrote:

> Francois Donze writes:
>
> > for example, if I compose a message with an =E9 ( e with acute accent ),
> > and then I postpone it, when I get it back the letter is changed
> > in =E29.
>
> This happens, as far as I understand PINE, because PINE immediately
> interprets your input and converts it to MIME's quoted-printable
> encoding before writing it to the mail file. The problem is, that it's
> not redisplayed the way you would expect when you resume editing a
> postponed mail, and consequently you suddenly see the quoted-printable
> stuff.
>
> > If I receive a mail with such an accent, I read i which is the 7-bit
> > corresponding char.
>
> This should be a terminal problem since it's a problem with
> bitstripping. You need stty -istrip, maybe more.
>
> --Erik
>
>





From [email protected]  Thu Feb 25 15:25:49 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA13277; Thu, 25 Feb 93 15:25:49 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA26320; Thu, 25 Feb 93 15:11:41 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from bradley.bradley.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA26314; Thu, 25 Feb 93 15:11:38 -0800
Received: from cs1.bradley.edu by bradley.bradley.edu with SMTP id AA05859
 (5.65b/IDA-1.4.3 for [email protected]); Thu, 25 Feb 93 17:11:30 -0600
Received: by cs1.bradley.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1)
       id AA09578; Thu, 25 Feb 93 17:11:29 CST
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1993 16:26:32 -0600 (CST)
From: Matt Simmons <[email protected]>
Subject: Problem with pine?
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="1430303733-1179186136-730681811:#7487"
Status: O
X-Status:

--1430303733-1179186136-730681811:#7487
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

When I view the attached file, and a line goes over 80 characters, and I
hit space to show the next page, one of the lines near the one that ran
over (I forget which one) does not get erased...  Why?


       [email protected]                               __
                                                            ///
Never hit a man with glasses  --                            ///
               Hit him with a baseball bat.           __  ///
                                                      \\\///
        Anybody have the address for Earth Last?       \XX/ Amiga

--1430303733-1179186136-730681811:#7487
Content-Type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Content-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Description: Forwarded message 'Disks 811-820 now available'

Received: from relay2.UU.NET by cs1.bradley.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1)
       id AA19863; Wed, 24 Feb 93 04:21:33 CST
Errors-To: [email protected]
Received: from uunet.uu.net (via LOCALHOST.UU.NET) by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP
       (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA24577; Wed, 24 Feb 93 04:34:12 -0500
Received: from megalith.UUCP by uunet.uu.net with UUCP/RMAIL
       (queueing-rmail) id 043325.29755; Wed, 24 Feb 1993 04:33:25 EST
Received: by megalith.miami.fl.us (V1.16/Amiga)
       id AA01caq; Tue, 23 Feb 93 17:39:27 EST
Received: by megalith.miami.fl.us (V1.16/Amiga)
       id AA01cal; Tue, 23 Feb 93 17:39:22 EST
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 93 17:39:22 EST
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Errors-To: [email protected]
Warnings-To: [email protected]
Return-Path: [email protected]
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.announce
Article-I.D.: ucdavis.22910
Reply-To: [email protected] (Fred Fish)
Message-Number: 352
From: [email protected] (Fred Fish) (COMP.SYS.AMIGA.ANNOUNCE)
To: [email protected]
Subject: Disks 811-820 now available


Disks 811-820 are now available.  Shipping to all those who have preordered
disks should be complete by 18-Jan-93.

Note that you can get a copy of the catalog (2 disks) of the complete library
contents by sending $3 for disks, postage, and mailer to:

       Fred Fish
       Catalog Disk Requests
       1835 East Belmont Drive
       Tempe, Arizona  85284
       USA

Thanks to all who submitted new and interesting material.  If you submitted
something in the past and it has not yet appeared in the library, please
feel free to resubmit it, particularly if it was several months ago.  I
sometimes hesitate to include material submitted more than about six
months ago because of some vague feeling that as soon as I include version
1.01 submitted many months ago, I'll see version 5.23 posted on usenet.

For those wishing to submit material for possible inclusion in the library,
here are a few simple guidelines that will make my job of organizing the
material MUCH easier and GREATLY increase your chances of having the material
accepted for inclusion:

1.      Don't submit bootable disks or disks with any other sort of
       proprietary material included, since I then have to go examine
       each file to decide if it is distributable or not, and if not,
       what effect removing it might have.  Unless the material is
       particularly interesting, I frequently just toss such disks
       into the recycling bin.

2.      Organize the distribution in a manner similar to my disks.  I.E,
       place all files related to a particular submission under a single
       directory on the disk.  If there is more than one submission per
       disk, place each submission in its own directory.

3.      Try to write a simple entry for my "Contents" listing that
       summarizes your submission.  It should be about 3-10 lines, and
       include the current version number, the version and disk number
       of the most recent version (if any) that was last included in the
       library, whether or not source is included, and an "Author" list.

4.      Ensure that your submission will run correctly from its sub-
       directory and if necessary, supply a script runnable from workbench
       (via :c/xicon or c:iconx) that makes all necessary assigns, copies
       fonts and libraries, etc.

5.      Send your submission in a sturdy envelope with sufficient padding.

Thanks!!!

======================================================================

CONTENTS OF DISK 811
--------------------

bsh             A powerful advanced shell and interpretive programming
               language.  Runs on AmigaDOS 1.2 - AmigaDOS 2.1.  Major
               features include command history, command line editing,
               command substitution, redirection and piping, redirection
               of standard error file, concurrent piping for external
               commands, here documents, aliases, file name completion
               using wildcards ('*', '?'), pattern permutations, variables,
               array variables, local and environment variables, variable
               exporting, C-like expression evaluation, conditionals,
               looping, more than 50 builtin commands, more than 40
               builtin functions, script programming, workbench startup
               via newbsh, directory aliases, shell window manipulation
               and command search by CLI path, by bsh path variable,
               command hashing and resident command loading.  Version 0.98,
               shareware, binary only.
               Author:  Gary Brant

MagicNoises     A MED module package including: Happy Hour, Magic Voices, Take
               it slow, Terminator II.
               Author:  Lars Rv_iger

WhiteLion       A new Othello (Reversi) playing program.  Strong and fast, it
               explains the rules and plays different strategies depending
               on the selected level.  Supports interLaced resolutions.
               Version 1.2_FD, english and german executables.  ShareWare,
               C sources and special version available when registering.
               Author:  Martin Grote


CONTENTS OF DISK 812
--------------------

PPMC            The Powerpacker Mini Clone.  This is powerpacker.library
               meeting gadtools.library: A small utility, useful for compres-
               sing any text or data file.  This is version 1.2b, an update
               to version 1.1 on disk 751.  Many new enhancements, including
               a complete Shell interface, hypertext documentation, a brand
               new look, localization, Danish, Dutch, and French catalogs,
               etc.  Includes 68030 and 68040 versions, plus source for SAS
               C.
               Author:  Reza Elghazi

SCAN8800        A specialized database program to store frequencies and sta-
               tion names for shortwave transmitters.  It can also control
               a receiver for scanning frequency ranges.  Version 2.28, an
               update to version 2.27 on disk 803.  Now works on NTSC Amigas.
               Binary only.
               Author:  Rainer Redweik


CONTENTS OF DISK 813
--------------------

AmigaBase       A hierachical, programmable, in-core database that runs under
               OS 1.3 and OS 2.0.  Has a full intuition interface.  Features
               include two display methods, filter datasets, search datasets,
               print datasets, and much more.  Nearly everything can be real-
               ized by programming AmigaBase. Datatypes can be Integer, Real,
               Boolean, String, Memo (Text), Date and Time.  Number of data-
               sets is only limited by available memory.  Also included in
               the package are some example projects.  Version 1.21, an up-
               date to version 1.20 on disk 792.  Shareware, binary only.
               Author:  Steffen Gutmann

GIFdatatype     This program is a datatype that understands the GIF file for-
               mat.  Once installed, it allows any datatype-aware programs
               (such as MultiView) to read GIF files as if they were IFF.
               You can also use them as screen backdrops.  Datatypes only
               exist at WB3.0 and greater.  Version 39.2, binary only.
               Author:  Steve Goddard

MinedOut        A remake of the BASIC program of the same name for the Sin-
               clair Spektrum, by Ian Andrews.  Mined Out is a strategy game,
               like Mine on disk 725 or AMines on disk 707.  The object of
               the game is to find a way from the bottom of the minefield
               to the top, to escape a computer enemy.  Version 1.0, share-
               ware, binary only.
               Author:  Dieter Seidel


CONTENTS OF DISK 814
--------------------

BootJob         The BootBlock Utility.  Includes functions to store, install,
               view, or execute any disk bootblock.  Also self-made boot-
               blocks can be installed to disk.  The most powerful function
               is to save any bootblock as an executable CLI-File.  Now you
               can start every boot-util, viruschecker, game, or loader from
               the CLI.  Also included is a drawer with 46 different boot-
               blocks.  BootJob requires Amiga OS2.x. This is version 1.30,
               an update to version 1.00 on disk 760.  Shareware, binary
               only.
               Author:  Michael Bialas

FIM             The Fast-Intro-Maker.  Use this little IntroMaker to create
               your own Intros in a few minutes.  Includes functions to
               insert selfmade IFF-Pictures, Color-Screentexts, Music and
               more.  Final created Intros will run on OS1.2/1.3/2.x (WB/Cli).
               F.I.M. requires Amiga OS2.x.  This is version 2.2, an update
               to version 1.0 on disk 760.  Shareware, binary only.
               Author:  Michael Bialas

MemBar          A simple program to display the free memory using a window
               with bars for chip and fast memory.  Version 1.0, public
               domain, includes source.
               Author:  Benjamin (Pink) Stegemann

Monopoly        Demo version of a Monopoly game written in C.  Version 1.0,
               shareware, binary only.
               Author:  Ken Gilmer

NoteEdit        NoteEdit is a utility to write and save crypted notes.  The
               ability of an automatic diary is included as well.  Version
               1.0, freeware, includes source.
               Author:  Benjamin (Pink) Stegemann

TreeGrow        TreeGrow is a program which generates quasifractal trees or
               plants.  The idea is taken from "Spectrum der Wissenschaft",
               the german release of "Scientific American".  Version 1.0,
               freeware, includes source.
               Author:  Benjamin (Pink) Stegemann


CONTENTS OF DISK 815
--------------------

AntiCicloVir    A link virus detector that detects 27 different such viruses.
               Checks your disk and memory for known link viruses, and can
               also detect known bootblock viruses in memory.  Version 1.7,
               an update to version 1.6a on disk 767. Shareware, binary only.
               Author:  Matthias Gutt

InspireDemo     Demo version of a new, easy to use, AmigaDOS 2.0 text editor.
               The demo is the same as the registered version, except that
               save and print are disabled in the demo.  Inspire uses the
               new features of AmigaDOS 2.0 extensively, including using the
               ASL requester for font and file selection, and the gadtools
               library for standardized gadgets.  The display database is
               used so you may open any type of screen that your computer
               is capable of.  Features include an ARexx port, undo, find
               and replace, bookmarks, text centering, word wrap, case
               conversions, clipboard support, auto indenting, and more.
               Version 1.2, binary only.
               Author:  Josh Van Abrahams

ShuffleRun      A game for two players.  Try to collect more points than the
               other player.  A level editor is implemented.  300 levels are
               included, 100 can be edited.  Version 1.0, freeware, includes
               source.
               Author:  Benjamin (Pink) Stegemann


CONTENTS OF DISK 816
--------------------

Egypt           A small game for one or two players.  Find three chests of
               gold in a computer generated maze.  Version 1.0, freeware,
               includes source.
               Author:  Benjamin (Pink) Stegemann

Look            A powerful program for creating and showing disk magazines.
               Supports IFF pictures, IFF brushes, ANSI, fonts, PowerPacker,
               and many more features.  Programmed in assembly language to
               be small and fast.  German language only.  Version 1.6, an
               update to version 1.5 on disk 808.  Shareware, binary only.
               Author:  Andri Voget.

Revenge         Revenge of the Blob, an animated interpretation using Bill
               Watterson's original cartoon strip character "Calvin".  Tells
               the story of Calvin's encounter with his mother's food, and
               how the dreaded tapioca monster gets back at Calvin for
               turning his nose up at it.  Version 1.0.
               Author:  David Wiles


CONTENTS OF DISK 817
--------------------

CTimer          A pair of programs for use with Sys1.3 and Sys2.  CTimer will
               measure the execution time of any section of code from a
               complete program down to a single line.  Freeware, includes
               source.
               Author:  Chas A. Wyndham

EditKeys        A keymap editor.  Supports editing of string, dead and modi-
               fiable keys, as well as control of repeatable and capsable
               status of each key.  Runs equally well under AmigaDOS 1.3 or
               2.0.  This is version 1.3, an update to version 1.2 on disk
               642.  Binary only.
               Author:  David Kinder

Hextract        A complete header file reference.  Definitions, structures,
               structure members and offsets, flag values, library contents,
               function definitions, registers, library offsets, prototypes,
               and pragmas.  The data from a set of V2.x Amiga and Lattice
               header files is included and packed for immediate reference
               by Hextract.  Version 1.3, an update to version 1.2 on disk
               726.  Freeware, includes partial source.
               Author:  Chas A. Wyndham

Install         A replacement for the AmigaDOS Install command, with an
               Intuition front end.  This is version 1.2, an update to
               version 1.1 on disk 643.  Includes source in assembly.
               Author:  David Kinder

S-Text          Turns texts into completely self-contained, self-displaying
               compressed files callable from Workbench or a CLI.  S-Texts
               will save disk space and can be transferred from disk to disk
               without having to think about reader and decompression compati-
               bility.  Version 1.2, an update to version 1.1 on disk 760.
               Freeware, binary only.
               Author:  Chas A. Wyndham


CONTENTS OF DISK 818
--------------------

LoadLibrary     Another LoadLib program, but this version runs in it's own
               task, and uses the reqtools.library for multiselection and
               other user friendly file handling.  All installed LoadLib
               libraries can also be removed from the system.  Supports the
               locale.library and Amiga-Guide.  Version 2.52 an update to
               version 2.52 on disk 743.  Freeware, binary only.
               Author:  Nils 'Jon' Gvrs

TankHunter      A simple action game for two players.  Destroy the tank of
               your opponent.  50 levels are included.  You can choose
               between sound effects or a background song.  Version 1.0,
               freeware, includes source.
               Author:  Benjamin (Pink) Stegemann

UUCoderWindow   An intuition user interface for the CLI commands UUEncodeX
               and UUDecodeX, written by Michel Bekke.  Requires AmigaDOS
               2.x.  Version 1.0, freeware, binary only.
               Author:  Nils 'Jon' Gvrs

WatchStack      A program that monitors the stack of any selected task or
               process 50 (PAL)/60 (NTSC) times per second and reports the
               allocated stack, maximum stack usage and current stack used.
               This program is a clone to StackWatch, disk 494, but improved
               a little bit. Requires AmigaOS 2.0. Version 2.02, binary only.
               Author:  Brian Ipsen


CONTENTS OF DISK 819
--------------------

JukeBox         A program to play compact digitial audio discs by emulating
               a graphical user interface similar to common CD players.  It
               provides a command line oriented, fully programmable ARexx
               user interface, as well.  Version 1.2522, shareware, binary
               only.
               Author:  Franz-Josef Reichert

MemoMaster      A program that warns you about events (like birthdays and
               anniversaries) as they approach.  Version 2, includes source.
               Author:  Jeff Flynn

OctaMEDPlayer   Standalone player program for playing songs made with OctaMED.
               Can load sng+samples-format and MMD0/MMD1-modules made with
               MED V2.10 or later, or any version of OctaMED.  Can play stan-
               dard four channel Amiga songs, MIDI songs, 5 to 8 channel
               OctaMED songs, and multi-modules.  Has a nice 2.0 look and
               works fine under 2.0 as well as 1.3.  Version 4.04, an update
               to version 3.00 on disk 688.  Binary only.
               Author:  Teijo Kinnunen and AMIGANUTS UNITED


CONTENTS OF DISK 820
--------------------

Databench       Databench is a new low-cost Database with some nice features
               like fast search, filter, password, import/export and more.
               Includes both English and German versions.  Demo version only,
               binary only.
               Author: Eric Hambuch / APC&TCP Vertrieb

QuickFile       A flexible, fast and easy to use flat file database using ran-
               dom access with intelligent buffering to minimise disk access,
               multiple indexes for fast access to records, form and list
               style screens and reports, and fast sorting and searching.
               Files are quickly and easily defined, and fields can be added,
               changed, or deleted at any time.  Version 1.2, shareware,
               binary only
               Author:  Alan Wigginton

SysInfo         A program which reports interesting information about the
               configuration of your machine, including some speed compar-
               isons with other configurations, versions of the OS software,
               etc.  Lots of new enhancements including information on
               devices, resources and ports, and graphical speed comparisons.
               This is version 3.11, an update to version 3.01 on disk 758.
               Binary only.
               Author:  Nic Wilson

VirusZ          A virus detector that recognizes over 500 bootblocks (200 boot
               viruses) and over 95 file viruses.  The filechecker can also
               decrunch files for testing.  The memory checker removes  all
               known viruses from memory without 'Guru  Meditation' and
               checks memory for viruses regularly.  VirusZ has easy to use
               intuitionized menus including keycuts for both beginners and
               experienced users.  VirusZ performs a self-test on every
               startup to prevent link virus infection.  Written entirely in
               assembly language and operates with Kickstart 1.2/1.3, OS 2.0
               and OS 3.0.  Version 3.00, an update to version 2.27 on disk
               786.  Shareware, binary only.
               Author:  Georg Hvrmann

======================================================================
|\/ o\  Fred Fish, 1835 E. Belmont Drive, Tempe, AZ 85284,  USA
|/\__/  1-602-491-0048                  [email protected]
======================================================================

-Fred

--
Read all administrative posts before putting your post up.  Mailing
list: [email protected].  Comments to [email protected].
MAIL ALL COMP.SYS.AMIGA.ANNOUNCE ANNOUNCEMENTS TO [email protected].
====================================================================
This is part of a mailing list gateway maintained by Carlos Amezaga.
Bugs, Comments, Subscribes and UnSubcribes should be sent to
[email protected].

--1430303733-1179186136-730681811:#7487--



From [email protected]  Thu Feb 25 15:43:39 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA13676; Thu, 25 Feb 93 15:43:39 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA24146; Thu, 25 Feb 93 15:32:40 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from degsyd.syd.deg.CSIRO.AU by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA24140; Thu, 25 Feb 93 15:32:35 -0800
Date:    Fri, 26 Feb 1993 10:32:19 EST
From: [email protected] (Jack Churchill)
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: PC mail software
To: [email protected], [email protected]
X-Vmsmail-To: PINE-INFO

>I am currently purchasing Chameleon from NetManage which seems to solve
>many problems; this soft is recommended by the BYTE magazine of Feb 93.
>
>It is a TCP/IP-NFS client AND server designed exclusively for MS-Windows.
>There is a Software development kit (add on) as well and RPC access.
>Here are some features:
>
>- 6 KB of base memory
>- Windows cut-and-paste, drag-and-drop, point-and-click
>- NDIS tcp/ip (thus, coexistence with Novell, DECnet....)
>- NFS file and Printer Sharing (server and client concurently)
>- snmp extensible agent
>- smtp, pop2 with address book
>- ftp, tftp
>- Telnet emulation (vt52, vt100, vt220, ANSI)
>- TN3270 (3278 mode 2)
>- Static routing over Ethernet, Token Ring, SLIP, FDDI
>- DNS client
>- Ping, Finger
>- ...
>
>Price: US$495
>
>Contact:
>NetManage Inc., 20823 Stevens Creek Blvd. Suite 100, Cupertino, CA 95014 USA
>Tel: (408) 973-7171
>Fax: (408) 257-6405
>
>
>> On Wed, 24 Feb 1993, Jianxin Jiang wrote:
>>
>> > Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1993 15:22:38 -0500
>> > From: Jianxin Jiang <[email protected]>
>> > To: [email protected]
>> > Subject: PC mail software
>> >
>> >
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> >     I have two PC's using Sun's PC-NFS. A Sun IPC runs pcnfsd. And I am looking
>> > for mail software that supports SMTP, or anything better than the SEND/LISTENER
>> > from PC-NFS.
>> >
>> >     PC-NFS only enables PC's to run as NFS clients. Anybody has anything that
>> > can also let the PC's be NFS servers for Unix and/or PC clients? Ideally, It
>> > will be nice have something that does NOT conflict with PC-NFS. Thanks a lot
>> > and I will summarize.

We also recomend you look at Chameleon.  Also, look at Beame *
Whiteside's product which is very similar to Chameleon plus it has the
added advantage of running either in DOS or Windows or both at the same
time.  It also has whois, nntp, timed, telnetd (up e.g., to 20 people
can remotely log onto your PC and run DOS applications).  That last
point may be useful for us to allow cc:mail people (if we decide to go
that way - can't wait for DOS-pine) to access their e-mail remotely
without carrying a laptop all the time.  I'm not sure but I did hear
from one person that Novell have/will buy out B&W.  Novell's current
Lanworks for DOS is also very similar but not as feature packed as B&W.

One a very similar thread:  could someone please help me decide between
MS-Mail and cc:mail?  I like and dislike both for various reasons but
cc:mail to me appears a better solution for us due to the smtp gateway
that runs on Suns.  The catch is that the PC (and some MAC) uses use MS
type applications like Word for Windows and Excel so MS-Mail mail be a
better choice in the longer term.  True?

 Jack N. Churchill                         | [email protected]
 CSIRO  Division of Exploration Geoscience | [email protected]
 PO Box 136  North Ryde  NSW  2113         | Phone:  +61 2 887 8884
 Australia                                 | Fax:    +61 2 887 8909
** Unless otherwise specified, the opinions expressed here are my own. **


From [email protected]  Thu Feb 25 19:58:32 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA20502; Thu, 25 Feb 93 19:58:32 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA28460; Thu, 25 Feb 93 19:51:32 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from acad.csv.kutztown.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA28454; Thu, 25 Feb 93 19:51:22 -0800
Received: by acad.csv.kutztown.edu (5.61/1.35)
       id AA01356; Thu, 25 Feb 93 22:48:43 -0500
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1993 22:47:13 -0500 (EST)
From: "James D. Gillmore" <[email protected]>
Subject: request
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Pleas add my name to your mailer list.  Thank you.

__________________________________________________________________
Jim Gillmore            E-mail      [email protected]
Manager Network Services                        VOICE 215.683.4199
Kutztown University of PA                         FAX 215.683.4634
LMS Annex Room 105                               HOME 717.865.5820
                                 Holidays & Weekends 717.567.3931




From [email protected]  Fri Feb 26 09:21:47 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA03314; Fri, 26 Feb 93 09:21:47 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA29593; Fri, 26 Feb 93 09:06:23 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from uwavm.u.washington.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA29585; Fri, 26 Feb 93 09:06:20 -0800
Received: from orca.fhcrc.org by UWAVM.U.WASHINGTON.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R1)
  with TCP; Fri, 26 Feb 93 09:05:39 PST
Received: by orca.fhcrc.org (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
         id AA53353; Fri, 26 Feb 1993 09:05:02 -0800
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1993 09:00:38 -800 (PST)
From: Brent Blumenstein <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: PC mail software
To: Jack Churchill <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected], [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Fo OS/2 IBM's TCP/IP package is terrific.  It even includes X emulation if
you buy it.  The combination (OS/2 and TCP/IP) is real smooth to
install, operate, and maintain.  In contrast, doing this kind of thing
DOS or DOS with Windows is a hassle.  True multitasking really does have
benefits.

--
Brent A. Blumenstein                   | tel.:   206 667 4623
Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center | fax:    206 667 4408
1124 Columbia Street  MP-557           | e-mail: [email protected]
Seattle, WA 98104    USA               |


On Fri, 26 Feb 1993, Jack Churchill wrote:

> >I am currently purchasing Chameleon from NetManage which seems to solve
> >many problems; this soft is recommended by the BYTE magazine of Feb 93.
> >
> >It is a TCP/IP-NFS client AND server designed exclusively for MS-Windows.
> >There is a Software development kit (add on) as well and RPC access.
> >Here are some features:
> >
> >- 6 KB of base memory
> >- Windows cut-and-paste, drag-and-drop, point-and-click
> >- NDIS tcp/ip (thus, coexistence with Novell, DECnet....)
> >- NFS file and Printer Sharing (server and client concurently)
> >- snmp extensible agent
> >- smtp, pop2 with address book
> >- ftp, tftp
> >- Telnet emulation (vt52, vt100, vt220, ANSI)
> >- TN3270 (3278 mode 2)
> >- Static routing over Ethernet, Token Ring, SLIP, FDDI
> >- DNS client
> >- Ping, Finger
> >- ...
> >
> >Price: US$495
> >
> >Contact:
> >NetManage Inc., 20823 Stevens Creek Blvd. Suite 100, Cupertino, CA 95014 USA
> >Tel: (408) 973-7171
> >Fax: (408) 257-6405
> >
> >
> >> On Wed, 24 Feb 1993, Jianxin Jiang wrote:
> >>
> >> > Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1993 15:22:38 -0500
> >> > From: Jianxin Jiang <[email protected]>
> >> > To: [email protected]
> >> > Subject: PC mail software
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Hello,
> >> >
> >> >     I have two PC's using Sun's PC-NFS. A Sun IPC runs pcnfsd. And I am looking
> >> > for mail software that supports SMTP, or anything better than the SEND/LISTENER
> >> > from PC-NFS.
> >> >
> >> >     PC-NFS only enables PC's to run as NFS clients. Anybody has anything that
> >> > can also let the PC's be NFS servers for Unix and/or PC clients? Ideally, It
> >> > will be nice have something that does NOT conflict with PC-NFS. Thanks a lot
> >> > and I will summarize.
>
> We also recomend you look at Chameleon.  Also, look at Beame *
> Whiteside's product which is very similar to Chameleon plus it has the
> added advantage of running either in DOS or Windows or both at the same
> time.  It also has whois, nntp, timed, telnetd (up e.g., to 20 people
> can remotely log onto your PC and run DOS applications).  That last
> point may be useful for us to allow cc:mail people (if we decide to go
> that way - can't wait for DOS-pine) to access their e-mail remotely
> without carrying a laptop all the time.  I'm not sure but I did hear
> from one person that Novell have/will buy out B&W.  Novell's current
> Lanworks for DOS is also very similar but not as feature packed as B&W.
>
> One a very similar thread:  could someone please help me decide between
> MS-Mail and cc:mail?  I like and dislike both for various reasons but
> cc:mail to me appears a better solution for us due to the smtp gateway
> that runs on Suns.  The catch is that the PC (and some MAC) uses use MS
> type applications like Word for Windows and Excel so MS-Mail mail be a
> better choice in the longer term.  True?
>
>   Jack N. Churchill                         | [email protected]
>   CSIRO  Division of Exploration Geoscience | [email protected]
>   PO Box 136  North Ryde  NSW  2113         | Phone:  +61 2 887 8884
>   Australia                                 | Fax:    +61 2 887 8909
> ** Unless otherwise specified, the opinions expressed here are my own. **




From [email protected]  Fri Feb 26 13:10:53 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA08644; Fri, 26 Feb 93 13:10:53 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA01627; Fri, 26 Feb 93 13:00:11 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from RUTGERS.EDU by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA01621; Fri, 26 Feb 93 13:00:08 -0800
Received: from mimsy.UUCP by rutgers.edu (5.59/SMI4.0/RU1.5/3.08) with UUCP
       id AA06782; Fri, 26 Feb 93 15:12:33 EST
Received: by mimsy.UMD.EDU (smail2.5)
       id AA13150; 26 Feb 93 15:12:11 EST (Fri)
Received: from ghost.uunet.ca (via uunet.ca) by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP
       (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA10201; Fri, 26 Feb 93 15:07:28 -0500
Received: from moore by mail.uunet.ca with UUCP id <10764(4)>; Fri, 26 Feb 1993 15:07:24 -0500
Received: by moore.moore.com (4.1/smail2.5/01-12-90)
       id AA20894; Fri, 26 Feb 93 14:32:54 EST
Date:   Fri, 26 Feb 1993 14:27:28 -0500
From: Paul Maclauchlan <[email protected]>
Subject: User documentation
To: Pine Info mailing list <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9302261428.B20451-a100000@moore>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


I realize the help screens include just about everything users need to
know, but that is mostly useful *after* they've begun using Pine.  What do
you do to introduce Pine to new email users at your site?

Seminars and demos are effective for people at my office, but I have many
more users that are remote.  Any ideas for them?

Ideally, I'd like to be able to provide my users with a short document
describing the Pine basics and how they can learn more about the features
available to them.  If nobody has written one, I'll take a crack at it and
share it with anyone that is interested.

I look forward to hearing from you.

--
../Paul Maclauchlan
Moore Corporation Limited, Toronto, Ontario (416) 364-2600
[email protected]   -or-  {...!uunet.ca,...!telly}!moore!paul
"Give me the beat, boys, and free my soul,
I want to get lost in your rock-n-roll and drift away..."




From [email protected]  Fri Feb 26 18:51:58 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA15112; Fri, 26 Feb 93 18:51:58 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA06924; Fri, 26 Feb 93 18:33:47 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from emoryu1.cc.emory.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA06920; Fri, 26 Feb 93 18:33:45 -0800
Received: by
       emoryu1.cc.emory.edu (5.65/Emory_cc.3.4.6) via MAILPROG
       id AA04947 ; Fri, 26 Feb 93 21:33:41 -0500
Return-Path: [email protected]
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1993 21:32:30 -0500 (EST)
From: "Richard L. Doernberg" <[email protected]>
Subject:
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

How do I join the pine-info mailing list? Thanks.

Richard L. Doernberg

Emory University School of Law
Atlanta, Ga. 30322-2770
Phone: (404) 727 6836
Fax:   (404) 727 6850
Email Address: [email protected]




From [email protected]  Fri Feb 26 22:43:23 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17371; Fri, 26 Feb 93 22:43:23 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA05039; Fri, 26 Feb 93 22:27:38 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from camelot.bradley.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA05033; Fri, 26 Feb 93 22:27:31 -0800
Received: by camelot.bradley.edu id AA23114
 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for Pine Info mailing list <[email protected]>); Sat, 27 Feb 1993 00:26:55 -0600
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1993 00:25:31 -0500 (CDT)
From: Matt Simmons <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: User documentation
To: Paul Maclauchlan <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Info mailing list <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9302261428.B20451-a100000@moore>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Fri, 26 Feb 1993, Paul Maclauchlan wrote:

>
> I realize the help screens include just about everything users need to
> know, but that is mostly useful *after* they've begun using Pine.  What do
> you do to introduce Pine to new email users at your site?
>
> Seminars and demos are effective for people at my office, but I have many
> more users that are remote.  Any ideas for them?
>
> Ideally, I'd like to be able to provide my users with a short document
> describing the Pine basics and how they can learn more about the features
> available to them.  If nobody has written one, I'll take a crack at it and
> share it with anyone that is interested.
>
> I look forward to hearing from you.
>
Well, I'm the sole supporter of it here, and what I've found to work is
just telling the person how to start it up...  They ask 'How do I ____'
once or twice, but you tell them to just read the screen...  They learn on
their own that way and it seems to have worked very well here...




From [email protected]  Mon Mar  1 01:30:43 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA16708; Mon, 1 Mar 93 01:30:43 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17664; Mon, 1 Mar 93 01:19:32 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17658; Mon, 1 Mar 93 01:19:29 -0800
Received: by inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com; id AA09167; Mon, 1 Mar 93 01:19:11 -0800
Received: by vbohub.vbo.dec.com (5.65/fma-100391);
       id AA08083; Mon, 1 Mar 1993 10:18:48 +0100
Received: by nova15.vbo.dec.com (5.57/fma-100391);
       id AA18904; Mon, 1 Mar 93 10:20:58 +0100
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1993 10:13:56 +0100 (French Winter)
From: Francois Donze <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Francois Donze <[email protected]>
Subject: Address resolution
To: Info Pine <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII


I've seen many mails about address resolution and I hope the
following has not been mentioned before.

In the index screen, I can read the following From field:

       frmrc::a1_evoai2::bastoul.jean-charles

However, if I decide to reply to that fellow, the To header field
becomes:

"frmrc::a1_evoai2::bastoul.jean-charles"@nova15.vbo.dec.com

I can't use that address and I need to modify it by hand. However, my
sendmail.cf knows how to handle DECnet addresses and the first address is
fine because sendmail will modify it properly before sending.

What I am looking for is a kind of switch for allowing or not address
expansion.

/francois
Internet: [email protected]
DECnet: ulysse::donze
All in 1: francois donze @vbo
Tel: (33) 92.95.54.81
Fax: (33) 92.95.62.34





From [email protected]  Mon Mar  1 05:00:43 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA19376; Mon, 1 Mar 93 05:00:43 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA16992; Mon, 1 Mar 93 04:53:48 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA16986; Mon, 1 Mar 93 04:53:46 -0800
Received: by inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com; id AA22939; Mon, 1 Mar 93 04:52:20 -0800
Received: by vbohub.vbo.dec.com (5.65/fma-100391);
       id AA05369; Mon, 1 Mar 1993 13:52:00 +0100
Received: by nova15.vbo.dec.com (5.57/fma-100391);
       id AA00550; Mon, 1 Mar 93 13:54:39 +0100
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1993 13:49:15 +0100 (French Winter)
From: Francois Donze <[email protected]>
Subject: Include mail fonctionality
To: Info Pine <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


I did not find anything in the compose menu allowing including a
specific mail in the body text. I could workaround by exporting and
then read file which is fine but heavy.

Of course, I am not speaking of forwarding but but including a
mail. Did I miss this somewhere ?.



/francois
Internet: [email protected]
DECnet: ulysse::donze
All in 1: francois donze @vbo
Tel: (33) 92.95.54.81
Fax: (33) 92.95.62.34



From [email protected]  Mon Mar  1 06:10:07 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA20371; Mon, 1 Mar 93 06:10:07 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17226; Mon, 1 Mar 93 06:03:29 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from csgrad.cs.vt.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17220; Mon, 1 Mar 93 06:03:20 -0800
Received: by csgrad.cs.vt.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3)
       id AA22174; Mon, 1 Mar 1993 09:03:01 -0500
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1993 09:00:13 -0500 (EST)
From: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Address resolution
To: Francois Donze <[email protected]>
Cc: Info Pine <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

There really isn't any way to turn off address expansion in Pine. It's
pretty deeply ingranined, but I believe the address that results from the
expansion you give below should work fine. It's just adding the local host
name on the end; your sendmail should be smart enough to know what to do
with it if it can handle DECnet mail. We've pretty much intentionally made
Pine follow RFC-822 closely because we believe that adhering to standards
will increase interoperability and the quality of the product.

LL


On Mon, 1 Mar 1993, Francois Donze wrote:

>
> I've seen many mails about address resolution and I hope the
> following has not been mentioned before.
>
> In the index screen, I can read the following From field:
>
>       frmrc::a1_evoai2::bastoul.jean-charles
>
> However, if I decide to reply to that fellow, the To header field
> becomes:
>
> "frmrc::a1_evoai2::bastoul.jean-charles"@nova15.vbo.dec.com
>
> I can't use that address and I need to modify it by hand. However, my
> sendmail.cf knows how to handle DECnet addresses and the first address is
> fine because sendmail will modify it properly before sending.
>
> What I am looking for is a kind of switch for allowing or not address
> expansion.
>
> /francois
> Internet: [email protected]
> DECnet: ulysse::donze
> All in 1: francois donze @vbo
> Tel: (33) 92.95.54.81
> Fax: (33) 92.95.62.34
>
>
>





From [email protected]  Mon Mar  1 06:13:20 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA20413; Mon, 1 Mar 93 06:13:20 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17236; Mon, 1 Mar 93 06:04:45 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from csgrad.cs.vt.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17230; Mon, 1 Mar 93 06:04:36 -0800
Received: by csgrad.cs.vt.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3)
       id AA22186; Mon, 1 Mar 1993 09:04:23 -0500
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1993 09:03:10 -0500 (EST)
From: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Include mail fonctionality
To: Francois Donze <[email protected]>
Cc: Info Pine <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

The way to do this in Pine now is to use the export command to write the
message to a file and then include the file with the ^R command in the
composer. Would be nice if there was a better way...

LL


On Mon, 1 Mar 1993, Francois Donze wrote:

>
> I did not find anything in the compose menu allowing including a
> specific mail in the body text. I could workaround by exporting and
> then read file which is fine but heavy.
>
> Of course, I am not speaking of forwarding but but including a
> mail. Did I miss this somewhere ?.
>
>
>
> /francois
> Internet: [email protected]
> DECnet: ulysse::donze
> All in 1: francois donze @vbo
> Tel: (33) 92.95.54.81
> Fax: (33) 92.95.62.34
>





From [email protected]  Mon Mar  1 12:48:35 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA00410; Mon, 1 Mar 93 12:48:35 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA20609; Mon, 1 Mar 93 12:32:00 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from RUTGERS.EDU by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA20603; Mon, 1 Mar 93 12:31:56 -0800
Received: from mimsy.UUCP by rutgers.edu (5.59/SMI4.0/RU1.5/3.08) with UUCP
       id AA08026; Mon, 1 Mar 93 14:15:03 EST
Received: by mimsy.UMD.EDU (smail2.5)
       id AA26037; 1 Mar 93 14:01:30 EST (Mon)
Received: from ghost.uunet.ca (via uunet.ca) by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP
       (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA20455; Mon, 1 Mar 93 13:45:53 -0500
Received: from moore by mail.uunet.ca with UUCP id <9749(1)>; Mon, 1 Mar 1993 13:45:49 -0500
Received: by moore.moore.com (4.1/smail2.5/01-12-90)
       id AA05892; Mon, 1 Mar 93 13:29:59 EST
Date:   Mon, 1 Mar 1993 13:26:41 -0500
From: Paul Maclauchlan <[email protected]>
Subject: Return Receipt et al
To: Pine Info mailing list <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9303011341.C5692-a100000@moore>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


Is there a philosophical reason a "Return-Receipt-To:" header is not
available with the Rich Header option?  It would be useful.

Even more useful would be a method for a sender to check the Status: line
of a message sent to another user.  I keep getting questions like "How do
I know they read my message?"  Any suggestions?

--
../Paul Maclauchlan
Moore Corporation Limited, Toronto, Ontario (416) 364-2600
[email protected]   -or-  {...!uunet.ca,...!telly}!moore!paul
"You know you can't hold me forever, I didn't sign up with you."/EJ&BT'73




From [email protected]  Mon Mar  1 13:10:44 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA01085; Mon, 1 Mar 93 13:10:44 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22059; Mon, 1 Mar 93 13:00:58 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22053; Mon, 1 Mar 93 13:00:56 -0800
Received: from Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM by Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU
       (NX5.67c/UW-NDC Revision: 2.26 ) id AA01354; Mon, 1 Mar 93 13:00:41 -0800
Received: from localhost by Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM
       (NX5.67c/UW-NDC/Panda Revision: 2.27.MRC ) id AA01984; Mon, 1 Mar 93 13:00:32 -0800
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1993 12:49:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Subject: re: Return Receipt et al
To: Paul Maclauchlan <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Info mailing list <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9303011341.C5692-a100000@moore>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 1 Mar 1993 13:26:41 -0500, Paul Maclauchlan wrote:
> Is there a philosophical reason a "Return-Receipt-To:" header is not
> available with the Rich Header option?  It would be useful.

The Return-Receipt-To header is extremely controversial.  It is not part of
any standards; rather, it is a local feature implemented inside the UNIX
sendmail and not in other mailers.

Thus, there is no guarantee that you will get a return receipt; the absence of
a receipt does not mean that that the user did not get the message, just as
the absence of a human-generated acknowledgement or reply does not.

Some people, including me, are opposed to the functionality on privacy
grounds.  I patched out the return receipt functionality in sendmail on my
workstations.  If I do not acknowledge or reply to a message, I have a
specific reason for not doing so; and do not want a program to override my
wishes.

There has been talk about a voluntary facility that would prompt the user
agent to say, when the receipient reads the mail, ``the sender requested that
this message be acknowledged.  Shall I send an acknowledgement?''  The problem
is, since it's a voluntary functionality, it would suffer all the problems of
uncertainty that return receipts would.

> Even more useful would be a method for a sender to check the Status: line
> of a message sent to another user.  I keep getting questions like "How do
> I know they read my message?"  Any suggestions?

This is something that would be even more abhorrant, even to people who accept
the return receipt functionality as attractive.  It requires a program to dig
into another user's private data.



From [email protected]  Mon Mar  1 13:38:39 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA01822; Mon, 1 Mar 93 13:38:39 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22394; Mon, 1 Mar 93 13:27:55 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from world.std.com by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22388; Mon, 1 Mar 93 13:27:53 -0800
Received: from localhost by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0)
       id AA20689; Mon, 1 Mar 1993 16:20:15 -0500
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
To: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Cc: Paul Maclauchlan <[email protected]>,
       Pine Info mailing list <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Return Receipt et al
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1993 16:20:15 -0500
From: Joe Ilacqua <[email protected]>


       Since it is only a receipt of delivery to your mail box, and
does not in anyway guarantee that you have seen them message, I'm not
sure I see the philosophical problem.  All it does is inform the
sender that the various mail links are functioning.

->Spike


From [email protected]  Mon Mar  1 13:44:07 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA01980; Mon, 1 Mar 93 13:44:07 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA21256; Mon, 1 Mar 93 13:36:36 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA21250; Mon, 1 Mar 93 13:36:30 -0800
Received: from cantsc.canterbury.ac.nz by csc.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF #2553 ) id
<[email protected]>; Tue, 2 Mar 1993 10:36:22 +1300
Received: by cantsc.canterbury.ac.nz (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05824; Tue,
2 Mar 93 10:36:18 NZD
Received: from
Messages.8.5.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.cantsc.canterbury.ac.nz.sun4.41 via
MS.5.6.cantsc.canterbury.ac.nz.sun4_41; Tue,  2 Mar 1993 10:36:18 +1300 (NZDT)
Date: Tue,  2 Mar 1993 10:36:18 +1300 (NZDT)
From: Jason Haar <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Return Receipt et al
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
To: Pine Info mailing list <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Jason Haar <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
X-Envelope-To: [email protected]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/richtext; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Andrew-Message-Size: 483+0
X-Contact: phone: +64 3 364-2336, fax: +64 3 364-2332
Organisation: CSC, University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand.
References: <[email protected]>

<nl>
<bold><excerpt>Excerpts from Mailing-Lists.Info-Pine: 1-Mar-93 Re: Return Rece=
ipt et al Joe [email protected] (260)</excerpt></bold><nl>
<nl>
<nl>
<excerpt>       Since it is only a receipt of delivery to your mail box, and<nl>
does not in anyway guarantee that you have seen them message, I'm not<nl>
sure I see the philosophical problem.  All it does is inform the<nl>
sender that the various mail links are functioning.<nl>
</excerpt><nl>
You are confusing a delivery-receipt with a read-receipt (<bold>Delivery-Recei=
pt-To:</bold> vs <bold>Read-Receipt-To:</bold> header)<nl>
<nl>
Cheers<nl>
<nl>
Jason Haar


From [email protected]  Mon Mar  1 14:05:50 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA02606; Mon, 1 Mar 93 14:05:50 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22621; Mon, 1 Mar 93 13:54:22 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22615; Mon, 1 Mar 93 13:54:18 -0800
Received: from Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM by Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU
       (NX5.67c/UW-NDC Revision: 2.26 ) id AA01389; Mon, 1 Mar 93 13:54:07 -0800
Received: from localhost by Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM
       (NX5.67c/UW-NDC/Panda Revision: 2.27.MRC ) id AA02121; Mon, 1 Mar 93 13:53:57 -0800
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1993 13:31:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Return Receipt et al
To: Joe Ilacqua <[email protected]>
Cc: Paul Maclauchlan <[email protected]>,
       Pine Info mailing list <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 01 Mar 1993 16:20:15 -0500, Joe Ilacqua wrote:
>       Since it is only a receipt of delivery to your mail box, and
> does not in anyway guarantee that you have seen them message, I'm not
> sure I see the philosophical problem.  All it does is inform the
> sender that the various mail links are functioning.

I occasionally receive email that I want no acknowledgement of its delivery
returned to the sender.  That is, I expressly want to be able to deny having
ever received the message if questioned.  Sometimes, an ``e-mail black hole''
is the only way to get rid of certain individuals.

If the sender really wants to check the mail links, the sender could send a
round-trip message using something like the % hack.  For example, I could send
a message to mrc%[email protected] to see if mail to/from world.std.com
works from Panda.  But, I claim that I have no right to know whether or not a
message I sent makes it to [email protected]'s mailbox unless Joe Ilacqua
decides to give me that information.

If it's really important to me that I know if the message got there, I will
say ``Please acknowledge this message immediately.''  If Joe wants to do that,
he can do a reply with the single word ``ack'' as a message.  If he doesn't,
well, he doesn't.  It's his choice.  A programmed procedure eliminates that
choice.

Consider, too, the frightening possibility of lawsuits getting served via
email in light of the well-known irresponsible ways that people sometimes use
email.

However, the bottom line is that there is at present *no* standard way of
requesting return receipts, only various (different and non-interoperable)
hacks in different mailers.  If all your correspondents use sendmail on UNIX,
and none of them are nasty sorts like me that deliberately patched the code
out, then you could have a working receipt facility.  That is not a realistic
set of assumptions to make on the Internet.

I don't see any particular reason why Pine shouldn't make it possible to send
a Return-Receipt-To header.  On the other hand, who can take responsibility
for making sure it works?



From [email protected]  Mon Mar  1 14:10:10 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA02740; Mon, 1 Mar 93 14:10:10 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22667; Mon, 1 Mar 93 13:58:39 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from world.std.com by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22661; Mon, 1 Mar 93 13:58:37 -0800
Received: from localhost by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0)
       id AA26673; Mon, 1 Mar 1993 16:58:24 -0500
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
To: Jason Haar <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Info mailing list <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Return Receipt et al
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1993 16:58:23 -0500
From: Joe Ilacqua <[email protected]>


<You are confusing a delivery-receipt with a read-receipt
>(Delivery-Receipt-To: vs Read-Receipt-To: header)

       I don't think I'm confused at all. We are talking about the
"Return-Receipt-To:" header (see the Subject: and Mark's message)
which I have never seen implemented to do anything other than delivery
receipt.  I've never seen a read receipt implementation, and I think
that you couldn't do it without mailer cooperation.

->Spike


From [email protected]  Mon Mar  1 14:14:58 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA02882; Mon, 1 Mar 93 14:14:58 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22743; Mon, 1 Mar 93 14:07:06 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from netcom4.netcom.com by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22737; Mon, 1 Mar 93 14:07:04 -0800
Received: by nfs-serv.netcom.com (5.65/SMI-4.1/Netcom)
       id AA16349; Mon, 1 Mar 93 13:58:22 -0800
From: [email protected] (Will Estes)
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Subject: re: Return Receipt et al
To: [email protected] (Mark Crispin)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 93 13:58:22 PST
Cc: [email protected], [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>; from "Mark Crispin" at Mar 1, 93 12:49 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

'Mark Crispin says:'
> The Return-Receipt-To header is extremely controversial.  It is not part of
> any standards; rather, it is a local feature implemented inside the UNIX
> sendmail and not in other mailers.
>
> Thus, there is no guarantee that you will get a return receipt; the absence of
> a receipt does not mean that that the user did not get the message, just as
> the absence of a human-generated acknowledgement or reply does not.
>
> Some people, including me, are opposed to the functionality on privacy
> grounds.  I patched out the return receipt functionality in sendmail on my
> workstations.  If I do not acknowledge or reply to a message, I have a
> specific reason for not doing so; and do not want a program to override my
> wishes.

I thought that Return-Receipt-To simply acknowledges receipt of the
mail by the host, *not* that the mail has necessarily been read by
the receiver.  Is that not correct?

--
Thanks,
Will Estes              Internet: [email protected]


From [email protected]  Mon Mar  1 14:31:22 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA03165; Mon, 1 Mar 93 14:31:22 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22848; Mon, 1 Mar 93 14:21:33 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from world.std.com by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22842; Mon, 1 Mar 93 14:21:31 -0800
Received: from localhost by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0)
       id AA29083; Mon, 1 Mar 1993 17:13:55 -0500
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
To: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Info mailing list <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Return Receipt et al
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1993 17:13:53 -0500
From: Joe Ilacqua <[email protected]>


<But, I claim that I have no right to know whether or not a
>message I sent makes it to [email protected]'s mailbox unless Joe Ilacqua
<decides to give me that information.

       I disagree, I think I have ever right to know whether mail
mail was delivered or not.  Whether my mail got to you or whizzed off
in to a black hole is very much my business.

<Consider, too, the frightening possibility of lawsuits getting served
>via email in light of the well-known irresponsible ways that people
<sometimes use email.

       This is a real reach.

<I don't see any particular reason why Pine shouldn't make it possible to send
>a Return-Receipt-To header.  On the other hand, who can take responsibility
<for making sure it works?

       You don't have to guarantee it works, as there is no way the
sending site can, just provide access to it.  Or allow user defined
headers like ELM does.

->Spike


From [email protected]  Mon Mar  1 14:32:05 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA03195; Mon, 1 Mar 93 14:32:05 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22789; Mon, 1 Mar 93 14:11:19 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22783; Mon, 1 Mar 93 14:11:17 -0800
Received: from Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM by Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU
       (NX5.67c/UW-NDC Revision: 2.26 ) id AA01416; Mon, 1 Mar 93 14:11:05 -0800
Received: from localhost by Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM
       (NX5.67c/UW-NDC/Panda Revision: 2.27.MRC ) id AA02191; Mon, 1 Mar 93 14:10:55 -0800
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1993 14:08:57 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Subject: re: Return Receipt et al
To: Will Estes <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected], [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 1 Mar 93 13:58:22 PST, Will Estes wrote:
> I thought that Return-Receipt-To simply acknowledges receipt of the
> mail by the host, *not* that the mail has necessarily been read by
> the receiver.  Is that not correct?

What difference does that make?  Having my host say ``I got the message and
deposited it in his mailbox'' still conveys more information than I may
necessarily wish to convey.



From [email protected]  Mon Mar  1 14:53:14 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA03678; Mon, 1 Mar 93 14:53:14 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22998; Mon, 1 Mar 93 14:42:47 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22992; Mon, 1 Mar 93 14:42:45 -0800
Received: from Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM by Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU
       (NX5.67c/UW-NDC Revision: 2.26 ) id AA01451; Mon, 1 Mar 93 14:42:38 -0800
Received: from localhost by Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM
       (NX5.67c/UW-NDC/Panda Revision: 2.27.MRC ) id AA02290; Mon, 1 Mar 93 14:42:33 -0800
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1993 14:29:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Return Receipt et al
To: Joe Ilacqua <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Info mailing list <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 01 Mar 1993 17:13:53 -0500, Joe Ilacqua wrote:
>       I disagree, I think I have ever right to know whether mail
> mail was delivered or not.  Whether my mail got to you or whizzed off
> in to a black hole is very much my business.

You may think it's your right, but if the recipient chooses to run a mailer
that does not pay any attention to your request for a receipt then you have no
way of forcing him to do so.

So, the person who thinks it's his right not to give you that information is
going to win out.  So is the person who thinks it's his right not to bother
implementing it.

These acknowledgements are voluntary.  There is no particular reason to
believe that a request for a human-generated acknowledgement will work any
worse than a request for a mailer-generated acknowledgement.  Provably, there
are cases where the latter will not work at all.

> <Consider, too, the frightening possibility of lawsuits getting served
> >via email in light of the well-known irresponsible ways that people
> <sometimes use email.
>       This is a real reach.

On the contrary, I have heard rumors of exactly that possibility on a
commercial e-mail system, and I've seen articles in the trade rags about
electronic delivery of legal process.

Anyway, I am not the person to convince about whether or not Pine should
generate that header.  I'm just speaking my mind as a user here.

I think this discussion has been hashed out fully, so I'm not going to say any
more.



From [email protected]  Mon Mar  1 15:05:34 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA04032; Mon, 1 Mar 93 15:05:34 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA23111; Mon, 1 Mar 93 14:56:34 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from netcom.netcom.com by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA23105; Mon, 1 Mar 93 14:56:32 -0800
Received: by netcom.netcom.com (5.65/SMI-4.1/Netcom)
       id AA22972; Mon, 1 Mar 93 14:56:14 -0800
From: [email protected] (Will Estes)
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Return Receipt et al
To: [email protected]
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 93 14:56:13 PST
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>; from "Mark Crispin" at Mar 1, 93 1:31 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

'Mark Crispin says:'
>
> On Mon, 01 Mar 1993 16:20:15 -0500, Joe Ilacqua wrote:
> >     Since it is only a receipt of delivery to your mail box, and
> > does not in anyway guarantee that you have seen them message, I'm not
> > sure I see the philosophical problem.  All it does is inform the
> > sender that the various mail links are functioning.
>
> I occasionally receive email that I want no acknowledgement of its delivery
> returned to the sender.  That is, I expressly want to be able to deny having
> ever received the message if questioned.  Sometimes, an ``e-mail black hole''
> is the only way to get rid of certain individuals.

I think this is an application issue, not a problem with
Return-Receipt-To:.  I think you are requesting a capability within
sendmail to - on a case-by-case basis - refuse acknowledgement of
receipt to particular individuals when the destination is you.

But the vast majority of people who use this feature simply want to
know that the mail arrived intact.  I know I never use that header
unless I'm dealing with someone on a mail system that loses mail, so
having acknowledgement of receipt is quite important.


> However, the bottom line is that there is at present *no* standard way of
> requesting return receipts, only various (different and non-interoperable)
> hacks in different mailers.  If all your correspondents use sendmail on UNIX,
> and none of them are nasty sorts like me that deliberately patched the code
> out, then you could have a working receipt facility.  That is not a realistic
> set of assumptions to make on the Internet.

But it's all we've got, and it sort of works in 80% of the cases.  I
can't understand something that is useful 80% of the time just
because occasionally it is not.

--
Thanks,
Will Estes              Internet: [email protected]
U.S. Computer           Cupertino, CA  95014


From [email protected]  Mon Mar  1 17:39:15 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA08168; Mon, 1 Mar 93 17:39:15 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA24553; Mon, 1 Mar 93 17:30:15 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from EMPIRE.CCE.CORNELL.EDU by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA24547; Mon, 1 Mar 93 17:30:13 -0800
Received: by cce.cornell.edu (Smail3.1.28.1 #4)
       id m0nTLoN-0001NNC; Mon, 1 Mar 93 20:30 EST
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1993 20:24:24 -0500 (EST)
From: Ron Pool <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Return Receipt et al
To: Joe Ilacqua <[email protected]>
Cc: Jason Haar <[email protected]>,
       Pine Info mailing list <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 1 Mar 1993, Joe Ilacqua wrote:
> receipt.  I've never seen a read receipt implementation, and I think
> that you couldn't do it without mailer cooperation.

We actually had a read-receipt implementation -- it was in an _old_ local
email system that I re-wrote (about 8 years ago) from scratch.  The
re-implemented system also included read-receipt.  We've since switched to
pine and have gladly dropped the read-receipt and delivery-receipt features.

Please note that the biggest complaint about pine from our approx. 750
users has been that it doesn't have read-receipt in it like our old
system.  They've stopped clamoring about that now and seem to be quite
please with pine, excepting those few users who like to open a log file on
the PC when they first go into mail and close it when they leave,
expecting to see a perfectly formatted stream of the text of all messages
read.  Most of these users are happy to put up with this in order to get
the other features of pine like multiple enclosures (our old system had a
single enclosure available -- a homegrown concept then).
--
Ron Pool; Electronic Technology Group; B-15 Wing Hall; Ithaca, NY 14853
Internet: [email protected]




From [email protected]  Mon Mar  1 19:10:19 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA09611; Mon, 1 Mar 93 19:10:19 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA23804; Mon, 1 Mar 93 19:00:50 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from uvaarpa.Virginia.EDU by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA23798; Mon, 1 Mar 93 19:00:48 -0800
Received: from elvis.med.virginia.edu by uvaarpa.virginia.edu id aa03620;
         1 Mar 93 22:00 EST
Received: by elvis.med.Virginia.EDU (5.65c/1.34)
       id AA16345; Mon, 1 Mar 1993 22:00:45 -0500
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1993 21:10:26 +22306404 (EST)
From: "Steven D. Majewski" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Return Receipt et al
To: Pine Info mailing list <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


This subject has been debated in other forums, and I'm aware of
Mark Crispin's feelings on the matter ( and agree with a lot of
his privacy reservations ) BUT, it still stands that:

- delivery-receipts AND read-receipts are something a lot of USERS
  want ( and sometimes NEED ) and when you tell them that read-receipts
  don't really do what they might think they do, they will tell you that
  what they want is for you to make them work better - not to get
  rid of them. ( And they will take whatever limited functionality
  they currently offer in the mean time. )

- Delivery-receipts AND read-receipts ARE implemented in several systems.
  ( usually non portable, non standard and proprietary )

- email thru multiple gateways is unreliable enough that even delivery
  receipts are useful. Sometimes 3 days for a bounce message is an
  unacceptable time to wait for a NACK. And out-of-band phone verification
  is also often out of the question. ( If we could get them on the phone
  then we wouldn't be using email in many cases. Researchers in the former
  Soviet Union, for example, usually tell us to use email because the phone
  system is so poor! )


And, I _might_ add (IMHO), that there are business and commercial uses that
will require (read or delivery) receipts. But then many of those uses will
also require sender verification, public-key-encryption and other security
features, form-letter replies, in addition to a more reliable receipt capability.

But since I've heard there may be enough potential problems just getting MIME
and PEM to work together, ( and I expect that any internet standard approach
to the above will end up using those two as building blocks ), I'll forgive
you, Mark, if you don't want to waste YOUR time on it. :-)

BUT: I managed to keep my damn mount shut the last 3 or 4 times this
topic came up. I weakened this time because it's late AND I want to
ask: Is there an architectural overview - an Email Reference Model -
of how responsibilities should be partitioned between the user agent
and the delivery agent ( and imap and other parts of the mail system ).
My impression is that OSI terminology has sort of been bolted onto
current practice, but that there is not really a very clear model.


But I guess this is getting out of the pine-info mailing list realm.


===============================================================================
Steven D. Majewski                     University of Virginia
[email protected]                     Box 449 Health Sciences Center
Voice: (804)-982-0831                  1300 Jefferson Park Avenue
FAX:   (804)-982-1616                  Charlottesville, VA 22908



From [email protected]  Mon Mar  1 21:22:17 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA11014; Mon, 1 Mar 93 21:22:17 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA24395; Mon, 1 Mar 93 21:14:29 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from csgrad.cs.vt.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA24389; Mon, 1 Mar 93 21:14:26 -0800
Received: by csgrad.cs.vt.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3)
       id AA04765; Tue, 2 Mar 1993 00:14:22 -0500
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1993 00:04:38 -0500 (EST)
From: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Return Receipt et al
To: "Steven D. Majewski" <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Info mailing list <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I think you've got a lot of good points in favor of r-r-r here. Certainly
it's needed for EDI like applications in the future, though I think a lot
of the need for verification now is because users are new and insecure
about e-mail.

I think the ironic thing about the current r-r-r: is that it's probability of
working is about the same as the message going through so it doesn't get
you very much. For example if you go through a a gateway to FidoNet or
such where the messages is likely to get lost, the r-r-r is also likely to
get lost because it's no longer SMTP and sendmail.

I think the gating issue for Pine is clearly the lack of standards for
this. The idea in Pine is to stick with standards to keep interoperability
and quality as high as possible. There was a mailing list where some
Internet standards folks were hashing some of this out, but I think the
effort sort of petered out, mostly due to technical difficulties making it
work across gateways.

LL




On Mon, 1 Mar 1993, Steven D. Majewski wrote:

>
> This subject has been debated in other forums, and I'm aware of
> Mark Crispin's feelings on the matter ( and agree with a lot of
> his privacy reservations ) BUT, it still stands that:
>
>  - delivery-receipts AND read-receipts are something a lot of USERS
>    want ( and sometimes NEED ) and when you tell them that read-receipts
>    don't really do what they might think they do, they will tell you that
>    what they want is for you to make them work better - not to get
>    rid of them. ( And they will take whatever limited functionality
>    they currently offer in the mean time. )
>
>  - Delivery-receipts AND read-receipts ARE implemented in several systems.
>    ( usually non portable, non standard and proprietary )
>
>  - email thru multiple gateways is unreliable enough that even delivery
>    receipts are useful. Sometimes 3 days for a bounce message is an
>    unacceptable time to wait for a NACK. And out-of-band phone verification
>    is also often out of the question. ( If we could get them on the phone
>    then we wouldn't be using email in many cases. Researchers in the former
>    Soviet Union, for example, usually tell us to use email because the phone
>    system is so poor! )
>
>
> And, I _might_ add (IMHO), that there are business and commercial uses that
> will require (read or delivery) receipts. But then many of those uses will
> also require sender verification, public-key-encryption and other security
> features, form-letter replies, in addition to a more reliable receipt
capability.  >
> But since I've heard there may be enough potential problems just getting MIME
> and PEM to work together, ( and I expect that any internet standard approach
> to the above will end up using those two as building blocks ), I'll forgive
> you, Mark, if you don't want to waste YOUR time on it. :-)
>
> BUT: I managed to keep my damn mount shut the last 3 or 4 times this
> topic came up. I weakened this time because it's late AND I want to
> ask: Is there an architectural overview - an Email Reference Model -
> of how responsibilities should be partitioned between the user agent
> and the delivery agent ( and imap and other parts of the mail system ).
> My impression is that OSI terminology has sort of been bolted onto
> current practice, but that there is not really a very clear model.
>
>
> But I guess this is getting out of the pine-info mailing list realm.
>
>
> ===============================================================================
>  Steven D. Majewski                   University of Virginia
>  [email protected]                   Box 449 Health Sciences Center
>  Voice: (804)-982-0831                        1300 Jefferson Park Avenue
>  FAX:   (804)-982-1616                        Charlottesville, VA 22908
>





From [email protected]  Tue Mar  2 03:04:52 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA15665; Tue, 2 Mar 93 03:04:52 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA25753; Tue, 2 Mar 93 02:57:56 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from hpd.lut.ac.uk by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA25745; Tue, 2 Mar 93 02:57:49 -0800
Received: from suna.lut.ac.uk by hpd.lut.ac.uk; Tue, 2 Mar 93 10:57:25 gmt
Received: by suna.lut.ac.uk (4.1/SMI-4.1)
       id AA04161; Tue, 2 Mar 93 10:49:23 GMT
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1993 10:37:16 +0000 (GMT)
From: Michael Rowe <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Michael Rowe <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Return Receipt et al
To: Pine Info <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9303021005.A3727-9100000@suna>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Why not use the following

Generate-Delivery-Report:

This can be used to request a delivery report when sending mail from
Internet through an X400 gateway, and is mentioned in the latest RFC
relating to Internet to X400 gateways/message transfer.

Michael ([email protected])

PS. I can't remember the RFC number I think it could be RFC 1123,
I'm not sure. It only has a passing mention in an otherwise large
document. It is also refered to in earlier RFC's on the subject.




From [email protected]  Tue Mar  2 07:36:06 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA19139; Tue, 2 Mar 93 07:36:06 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA27921; Tue, 2 Mar 93 07:25:20 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from prime.ntb.ch by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA27915; Tue, 2 Mar 93 07:25:18 -0800
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Received: (from user HEEB) by prime.ntb.ch; 02 Mar 93 16:24:55 UT
Subject: PINE for WINDOWS
To: [email protected]
From: [email protected]
Date: 02 Mar 93 16:24:55 UT


Is there  a PINE Version for Windows3.1 available ?
In which Directory can i find this Vers. ?

Which Files must i copy to my PC?

H.U.Heeb
eMail [email protected]




From [email protected]  Tue Mar  2 07:45:50 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA19259; Tue, 2 Mar 93 07:45:50 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA27333; Tue, 2 Mar 93 07:37:01 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from uvaarpa.Virginia.EDU by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA27327; Tue, 2 Mar 93 07:37:00 -0800
Received: from elvis.med.virginia.edu by uvaarpa.virginia.edu id aa26080;
         2 Mar 93 10:36 EST
Received: by elvis.med.Virginia.EDU (5.65c/1.34)
       id AA10096; Tue, 2 Mar 1993 10:36:56 -0500
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1993 10:36:56 -0500
From: "Steven D. Majewski" <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>,
       "Steven D. Majewski" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Return Receipt et al
Cc: Pine Info mailing list <[email protected]>

On Mar 2,  0:04, Laurence Lundblade wrote:
> ... I think a lot of the need for verification now is because
> users are new and insecure about e-mail.

I agree with that point. And another reason is the partial penetration
of email in some organizations. Some people use it. Some don't.
( And a place like UVA gives everyone an email address whether they
use it or not. ) Some people don't know how to use the mail
software. ( And especially, don't know how to turn on notification
if it hasn't been turned on by default for them. ) People don't
understand why some messages bounce back right away, and others
take several days to be returned. In this sort of environment
every bit of feedback helps --- It's like when a program echo's
back "Working..." or something to keep the impatient from hitting
the interrupt. People like to get that "So far, so good" message!

> I think the ironic thing about the current r-r-r: is that it's probability of
> working is about the same as the message going through so it doesn't get
> you very much...
> I think the gating issue for Pine is clearly the lack of standards for
> this. The idea in Pine is to stick with standards to keep interoperability
> and quality as high as possible.

I guess what I was trying to say before was:
I agree, in their current form, receipts are any ungly kludge, and so
I can understand if you don't want to waste your time on them, BUT we
ARE going to need those sort of standards soon.

> There was a mailing list where some
> Internet standards folks were hashing some of this out, but I think the
> effort sort of petered out, mostly due to technical difficulties making it
> work across gateways.

Which again, leads me back to the need for an "Email Architecture
Reference Model". i.e. I don't see a proposal out there that tells
the gateway and application people what exactly they are expected
to support. ( unless maybe it is implicit in some future promise
of X.400 interoperability. )


But anyway - since the question is no longer "Why doesn't PINE
support r-r-r?", I'll be happy to move this discussion to another
list if you have a suggestion of which is the appropriate one.


===============================================================================
Steven D. Majewski                     University of Virginia
[email protected]                     Box 449 Health Sciences Center
Voice: (804)-982-0831                  1300 Jefferson Park Avenue
FAX:   (804)-982-1616                  Charlottesville, VA 22908


From [email protected]  Tue Mar  2 09:15:19 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA21471; Tue, 2 Mar 93 09:15:19 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA28738; Tue, 2 Mar 93 09:06:59 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from wugate.wustl.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA28732; Tue, 2 Mar 93 09:06:57 -0800
Received: by wugate.wustl.edu (5.65c+/WUSTL-0.3) with SMTP
       id AA01037; Tue, 2 Mar 1993 11:06:55 -0600
Received: by fcrc-next.ecs.wustl.edu (NX5.67c/NeXT-2.0)
       id AA04169; Tue, 2 Mar 93 10:59:11 -0600
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1993 10:55:34 -0600 (CST)
From: Timothy Bergeron <[email protected]>
Subject: Does pine run on VMS?
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Pine was recently installed on the Unix machines in our College of Arts &
Sciences and is about to be installed on the machines in our School of
Engineering. Everyone that uses it really likes it.

Now several departments/schools that run VMS are wondering if there is a
version of pine that will run on their VMS systems. Has anyone tried this?

Timothy Bergeron
Manager, Consulting Services
Washington University
St. Louis, MO




From [email protected]  Tue Mar  2 10:25:44 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA23012; Tue, 2 Mar 93 10:25:44 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA29246; Tue, 2 Mar 93 10:14:39 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from halcyon.com by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA29240; Tue, 2 Mar 93 10:14:37 -0800
Received: by halcyon.com id AA08471
 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for [email protected]); Tue, 2 Mar 1993 10:13:56 -0800
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1993 10:13:56 -0800
From: Ralph Sims <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: shell escapes (disabling) and quota error message

Three things, please:

1.  How do I disable pine/pico from giving shell escapes to users (as
well as disabling ctrl-z).

2.  How do I disable pine's ability to read news folders/spool?

3.  How do I supress the "612 Megabytes over limit" message seen
when the index is accessed (we have quotas enabled)?

Many thanks for your help.


From [email protected]  Tue Mar  2 11:29:16 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA25236; Tue, 2 Mar 93 11:29:16 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA29733; Tue, 2 Mar 93 11:18:19 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from scapa.cs.ualberta.ca by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA29725; Tue, 2 Mar 93 11:18:05 -0800
Received: from isagate by scapa.cs.ualberta.ca with UUCP id <42130>; Tue, 2 Mar 1993 12:17:47 -0700
Received: by isagate.edm.isac.ca (/\==/\ Smail3.1.20.1 #20.1)
       id <[email protected]>; Tue, 2 Mar 93 12:06 MST
Received: from isa486-1 by isasun-1.edm.isac.ca with smtp
       (Smail3.1.26.7 #1) id m0nTcNK-000cvAC; Tue, 2 Mar 93 12:11 MST
Date:   Tue, 2 Mar 1993 12:09:23 -0700
From: Steve Hole <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: PINE for WINDOWS
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <ECS9303021223H>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: MULTIPART/mixed; BOUNDARY=Part9303021223B

--Part9303021223B
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII




On Tue, 2 Mar 1993 09:24:55 -0700 [email protected] wrote:

> From:[email protected]> Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1993 09:24:55 -0700
> Subject: PINE for WINDOWS
> To: [email protected]
>
>
> Is there  a PINE Version for Windows3.1 available ?
> In which Directory can i find this Vers. ?
>
> Which Files must i copy to my PC?
>

There is a Windows MUA that is based (somewhat loosely now) on Pine.   It is
called ECSMail and I have included a short description of its features in this
message.

--
Steve Hole                      Director of Research and Communications
ISA Corporation                 mail:  [email protected]
Suite 835, 10040 - 104 St.      phone: (403) 420-8081
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada       fax:   (403) 420-8037
T5J 0Z2


--Part9303021223B
Content-Type: TEXT/plain; name="ANNOUNCE.TXT"

ISA has developed a new Mail User Agent (MUA) for processing electronic
mail on networks.  It is named "ECSMail".

ECSMail can function as both a "remote" MUA and a "local" MUA.   While
functioning in remote mode, it will access a remote message store using
standards based mail access protocols.   In local mode, it will access
a local message store using system dependent message store access
routines.

ECSMail is has been designed and implemented to be as independent as
possible from operating system, display, and network protocols.  We have
achieved this by building driver libraries for the OS and displays, and
using Mark Crispin's c-client drivers for message store access (both
local and remote message stores).

Using this strategy, we are planning to support the following operating
systems, display, and mail protocol combinations:

OS        - Unix, DOS, OS/2 v2, MacOS, NT
Displays  - X11 (R4, R5, Openlook, Motif), MS Windows v3, Presentation
            Manager, Mac Finder
MAP Protocols - IMAP2, P7, PP7
MTP Protocols - SMTP, P1

It is our full intention to make this run on as many platforms, with as
many different mail application protocols as possible.

With ECSMail we plan to provide many interesting features, such as:

 * Multi-part, multimedia mail messages:

   - supporting both MIME and X.400 message formats

   - files (e.g. binaries, images, text, voice, application) can be
     attached and sent along with the message.

   - the different parts of the messsage can be extracted
     and displayed (using the necessary application) to the user.

 * Multiple simultaneous folder access and management (drag and drop
   messages or blocks of messages between folders).

 * Hierarchical folder structures.

 * Virtual folders within folders.   Messages can be grouped using any
   combination of message header criteria into a virtual folder.
   Messages in a virtual folder can be listed and manipulated as
   a single object.   This supports threading of messages within
   folders.

 * Integration of multicast (mail) and broadcast (NEWS, BBS) message
   stores via into a single interface.  NEWS groups appear as a list of
   folders and threading of broadcast messages will be supported.

 * Privancy Enhanced Mail (PEM).   Support encryption of message parts,
   digital signatures, and digital timestamps.

 * Forms mail.  Messages can be composed inside of a forms interface
   as a special message part.   It will include form design and
   display tools.

 * Draft message support.   Users will be able to create and store
   standard draft messages, and select draft messages from both public
   and private draft message stores.

 * Integration with "mail enabled applications".

 * Personal configuration files.

 * Asynchronous new mail notification.

 * Personal address book lookup and management. Addresses can be loaded
   manually, copied from incoming mail, or copied from an X.500 DUA
   (see next).

 * Integration with X.500 Directory Services.  The user can query local
   and network-wide address information while composing messages.
   Addresses can be copied from the Directory User Agent to the user's
   local address book. This facility will be optionally available for
   those who have the X.500 Directory Service capability.

What Is Available Now
---------------------

A BETA demonstration version of the Microsoft Windows version of ECSMail is
available via anonymous ftp from

 ftp.srv.ualberta.ca

in the directory

 /pub/networking/win/mail/ecs.tar.Z

This version of ECSMail only supports the TCP/IP based mail access and
transport protocols (IMAP2, SMTP), and can deliver MIME format messages.
It provides what we term "basic functionality" - it does the things that
most mailers do.   Features such as the virtual folders, and NEWS
message sources have not been implemented at this time.

We encourage you to get the software and try it out.  This version of
ecs is released for demonstration purposes only - IT IS NOT CURRENTLY IN
THE PUBLIC DOMAIN.  As I have mentioned earlier, we are not currently
charging for the product, and are in the process of evaluating different
forms of funding for the software.

There are some restrictions on what you can do with the software at this
time.   The mailer is designed to support several different TCP/IP
stacks through the use of Windows DLLs.   Currently we support the
following TCP/IP stacks:

 * Beame and Whiteside - BWTCP 2.x
 * Sun Microsystems - PCNFS 4.x
 * DEC Pathworks v

We are currently working on providing:

 * Microsoft WinSock DLL compliance
 * FTP Software - PCTCP 2.04

If you are interested in supporting another TCP/IP stack, then provide
us with a copy of the stack and development kit - it must have a sockets
API - and we'll try to provide a DLL interface for it.

How will we fund ECSMail?
-------------------------

There are two funding methods for ECSMail - maintenance contracts and
development contracts.

Maintenance contracts are signed with organizations that want support
and software maintenance on the ECSMail software.   This will include
free software upgrades and immediate response to software problems.

The cost of the maintenance is designed to be far less than
purchase->upgrade cost of conventional shrinkwrapped software.  The cost
is based on the number of installations that are in place.  The
organization will never be charged more than an agreed upon maximum.  As
the number of installations increases, the per seat cost decreases such
that maximum is never exceeded.  An organization can install as many
copies of ECSMail as they like.

Development contracts are signed to produce new functionality in the
ECSMail product.   ISA has identified a number of potential
functionality improvements that it would like to make to ECSMail.
We also believe that clients will have a number of features that they
would like to see added to the product.

The cost of the contract is determined by the amount of work required to
complete the development, and the number of organizations contributing
to the development.   The more organizations that contribute, the lower
the cost.   ISA publishes a detailed list of feature development
projects that it plans to run in the ecs-info mailing list (see below).

Mailing lists
-------------

There is an ecs mailing list.   To join the mailing list send a message
to

 [email protected]

To submit messages to the mailing list, send mail to

 [email protected]

If there are problems with the list, then send mail to

 [email protected]

--Part9303021223B--


From [email protected]  Tue Mar  2 13:35:49 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA29804; Tue, 2 Mar 93 13:35:49 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA01299; Tue, 2 Mar 93 13:23:34 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from research1.bryant.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA01293; Tue, 2 Mar 93 13:23:31 -0800
Received: by research1.bryant.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3)
       id AA16677; Tue, 2 Mar 1993 16:18:11 -0500
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1993 16:04:51 -0500 (EST)
From: "Stephen L. Frazier" <[email protected]>
Subject: Dumps when reading certain message
To: pine-info <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I have been consistently getting a core dump when attempting to message
number 5 (depicted in the INDEX below).  It occurs immediately after
pressing the return key when that entry in the INDEX is highlighted.  I can
read messages before or after it without problem, however. (This has
happened once before some time ago.)

I can read the message by using the native unix mail program.  We are using
version 3.05 of PINE running under Ultrix.  Any ideas?

Thanks!

Steve
<[email protected]>


      PINE 3.05       MAIL INDEX       Folder:inbox  Message 5 of 10

   1   Feb 28 Casilli               (542) List serves
   2   Mar  1 Paul Maclauchlan    (1,412) Re: User documentation
   3   Mar  1 Casilli               (553) list serves
   4   Mar  2 Christopher MacLel    (690) Re: SAS
 N 5   Mar  2 To: pine-info@cac.  (8,660) Re: PINE for WINDOWS
   6   Mar  2 Christopher MacLel  (1,127) MicroFocus Cobol
 N 7   Mar  2 Howard Blakesley    (1,428) Re: Archie????
 N 8   Mar  2 Barbara Weitbrecht  (1,646) Big sig sought
 N 9   Mar  2 Arnold V. Lesikar   (1,338) Re: Archie????
   10  Mar  2 Allan E Johannesen    (655) Re: Incorrect login message (fwd)







From [email protected]  Tue Mar  2 13:52:32 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA00396; Tue, 2 Mar 93 13:52:32 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA01407; Tue, 2 Mar 93 13:40:17 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from world.std.com by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA01401; Tue, 2 Mar 93 13:40:15 -0800
Received: from localhost by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0)
       id AA04691; Tue, 2 Mar 1993 16:32:40 -0500
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
To: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Cc: Pine Info mailing list <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Return Receipt et al
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1993 16:32:39 -0500
From: Joe Ilacqua <[email protected]>


<On the contrary, I have heard rumors of exactly that possibility on a
>commercial e-mail system, and I've seen articles in the trade rags about
<electronic delivery of legal process.

       But that doesn't make it true or even believable.  Even with
read-receipt I can never prove you read it.  But this is an issue for
"misc.legal", not here.

       Email has become a common communications tool that people use
every day like, phone, fax, or real mail.  It is also become
increasingly reliable.  Pretendeding it isn't or worse deliberately
working to to keep it from becoming more reliable is silly.  I agree,
the issue of read-receipt is a hairy philosophical one.  But the issue
of "Did sending this message work?" is not.

       Back to the issue at hand.  Many of my Pine users know what
"Return-Receipt-To:" does and would like not to have to switch to
another MUA when they want to use it.  Therefor I would like to see
it, or user definable headers, in the next release of Pine.

->Spike


From [email protected]  Tue Mar  2 13:54:07 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA00430; Tue, 2 Mar 93 13:54:07 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA01415; Tue, 2 Mar 93 13:40:33 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA01409; Tue, 2 Mar 93 13:40:31 -0800
Received: from localhost by Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU
       (NX5.67c/UW-NDC Revision: 2.26 ) id AA03463; Tue, 2 Mar 93 13:40:23 -0800
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1993 13:38:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Subject: re: Dumps when reading certain message
To: "Stephen L. Frazier" <[email protected]>
Cc: pine-info <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Could you send me a copy of the message or mailbox in question?



From [email protected]  Tue Mar  2 15:03:26 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA02603; Tue, 2 Mar 93 15:03:26 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA01887; Tue, 2 Mar 93 14:53:19 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from uvaarpa.Virginia.EDU by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA01881; Tue, 2 Mar 93 14:53:18 -0800
Received: from elvis.med.virginia.edu by uvaarpa.virginia.edu id aa25792;
         2 Mar 93 17:53 EST
Received: by elvis.med.Virginia.EDU (5.65c/1.34)
       id AA13317; Tue, 2 Mar 1993 17:53:14 -0500
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1993 17:16:34 +22306404 (EST)
From: "Steven D. Majewski" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Return Receipt et al
To: Joe Ilacqua <[email protected]>
Cc: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>,
       Pine Info mailing list <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="-2138107840-2132513265-731112793:#16092"

---2138107840-2132513265-731112793:#16092
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Tue, 2 Mar 1993, Joe Ilacqua wrote:
>
>       Back to the issue at hand.  Many of my Pine users know what
> "Return-Receipt-To:" does and would like not to have to switch to
> another MUA when they want to use it.  Therefor I would like to see
> it, or user definable headers, in the next release of Pine.
>

I (personally) don't often use "Return-Receipt-To:", but two of the
"missing" features that most often send ME to use another mailer are
user-defined headers ( or being able to edit-headers ) and mush's
'pick' command. ( Except I would rather that 'pick' changed the view
of the current folder - like sort, but it would temporarily drop
messages. The mush action of outputing a msg-list wouldn't fit very
well into the Pine User Interface. )

User-defined headers have been mentioned before as being difficult
to parse and verify. And PINE wants to support the idea of making
the mail-headers "fool-proof" (i.e. protected).

How about adding a list of allowable additional headers and a
minimal maybe a minimal grammar to specify that some headers
contain addresses, and SHOULD be parsed, and others contain a
vanilla string ( and should just be checked for non string chars. )

If the field definition said something like:

Sender: <address>  "default address"
Return-Receipt-To: <address>
X-Something <string>

Then Sender and R-R-To: are parsed/checked to ensure they are valid
conforming fully qualified addresses ( and checked against the address
book on the way. ) while X-Something is only checked that it doesn't
have any funny embedded chars.


( BTW: My typical use for editing or extending headers is to
 modify the Sender:, From:, & Reply-To: fields when sending out
 something in my Bosses name. The secretaries here would have the
 same need, but they aren't as adept with the mail software to
 figure out how to do it, so it would be nice if there was a
 "form" capability to set up the proper RFC-822 recommended
 headers for this type of situation.  Extract from the appropriate
 portion of RFC822 included for illustration. )


===============================================================================
Steven D. Majewski                     University of Virginia
[email protected]                     Box 449 Health Sciences Center
Voice: (804)-982-0831                  1300 Jefferson Park Avenue
FAX:   (804)-982-1616                  Charlottesville, VA 22908








---2138107840-2132513265-731112793:#16092
Content-Type: APPLICATION/octet-stream; name=rfc
Content-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Description: Appendix from rfc822 on secretary send mail,etc.



    August 13, 1982                                          RFC #822
    Standard for ARPA Internet Text Messages


    A.2.  ORIGINATOR ITEMS

    A.2.1.  Author-sent

            George Jones logs into his host  as  "Jones".   He  sends
       mail himself.

           From:  [email protected]

       or

           From:  George Jones <[email protected]>

    A.2.2.  Secretary-sent

            George Jones logs in as Jones on his  host.   His  secre-
       tary,  who logs in as Secy sends mail for him.  Replies to the
       mail should go to George.

           From:    George Jones <Jones@Group>
           Sender:  Secy@Other-Group

    A.2.3.  Secretary-sent, for user of shared directory

            George Jones' secretary sends mail  for  George.  Replies
       should go to George.

           From:     George Jones<[email protected]>
           Sender:   Secy@Other-Group

       Note that there need not be a space between  "Jones"  and  the
       "<",  but  adding a space enhances readability (as is the case
       in other examples.

    A.2.4.  Committee activity, with one author

            George is a member of a committee.  He wishes to have any
       replies to his message go to all committee members.

           From:     George Jones <[email protected]>
           Sender:   Jones@Host
           Reply-To: The Committee: [email protected],
                                    [email protected],
                                    Doe@Somewhere-Else;

       Note  that  if  George  had  not  included  himself   in   the
       enumeration  of  The  Committee,  he  would not have gotten an
       implicit reply; the presence of the  "Reply-to"  field  SUPER-
       SEDES the sending of a reply to the person named in the "From"
       field.

    A.2.5.  Secretary acting as full agent of author

            George Jones asks his secretary  (Secy@Host)  to  send  a
       message for him in his capacity as Group.  He wants his secre-
       tary to handle all replies.

           From:     George Jones <Group@Host>
           Sender:   Secy@Host
           Reply-To: Secy@Host

    A.2.6.  Agent for user without online mailbox

            A friend  of  George's,  Sarah,  is  visiting.   George's
       secretary  sends  some  mail to a friend of Sarah in computer-
       land.  Replies should go to George, whose mailbox is Jones  at
       Registry.

           From:     Sarah Friendly <Secy@Registry>
           Sender:   Secy-Name <Secy@Registry>
           Reply-To: Jones@Registry.

    A.2.7.  Agent for member of a committee

            George's secretary sends out a message which was authored
       jointly by all the members of a committee.  Note that the name
       of the committee cannot be specified, since <group> names  are
       not permitted in the From field.

           From:   Jones@Host,
                   Smith@Other-Host,
                   Doe@Somewhere-Else
           Sender: Secy@SHost










---2138107840-2132513265-731112793:#16092--



From [email protected]  Tue Mar  2 15:01:33 1993
Received: by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA02481; Tue, 2 Mar 93 15:01:33 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from tsippi.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA02475; Tue, 2 Mar 93 15:01:30 -0800
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1993 15:00:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Sheryl Erez <[email protected]>
Subject: re: Does pine run on VMS?
To: Timothy Bergeron <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Nope.  Pine doesn't run on VMS.  Many have asked about it and a few
have contemplated porting it, but nobody (that I know of) is doing a
complete port.  If you're interested in trying, we can provide full
source code and try to help out as questions arise.

                      Sheryl Erez
                        [email protected]
                          UW Network Information Center

On Tue, 2 Mar 1993 10:55:34 -0600 (CST), Timothy Bergeron wrote:

> Subject: Does pine run on VMS?
> To: [email protected]
>
> Pine was recently installed on the Unix machines in our College of Arts &
> Sciences and is about to be installed on the machines in our School of
> Engineering. Everyone that uses it really likes it.
>
> Now several departments/schools that run VMS are wondering if there is a
> version of pine that will run on their VMS systems. Has anyone tried this?
>
> Timothy Bergeron
> Manager, Consulting Services
> Washington University
> St. Louis, MO



From [email protected]  Wed Mar  3 04:43:56 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17314; Wed, 3 Mar 93 04:43:56 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA06178; Wed, 3 Mar 93 04:27:30 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA06172; Wed, 3 Mar 93 04:27:28 -0800
Received: by inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com; id AA17165; Wed, 3 Mar 93 04:27:08 -0800
Received: by vbohub.vbo.dec.com (5.65/fma-100391);
       id AA08875; Wed, 3 Mar 1993 13:25:52 +0100
Received: by nova15.vbo.dec.com (5.57/fma-100391);
       id AA02727; Wed, 3 Mar 93 13:28:31 +0100
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1993 12:55:23 +0100 (French Winter)
From: Francois Donze <[email protected]>
Subject: Choosing a Printer
To: Info Pine <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I am using two different printers according to the type of doc to print:
 desk printer for small doc
 Printer server for double side printing ....

What is the easiest way to change from one printer to the other?

Right now, I quit pine, edit .pinerc, modify the printer value and
enter pine again and print. Is there an easier way?

/francois
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Digital Equipment SARL          |                          |
950 Route des Colles - BP 027   |      Francois Donze      |
06901 SOPHIA ANTIPOLIS          |--------------------------|francois donze@VBO
       FRANCE                  |                          |  ULYSSE::DONZE
Tel: (33) 92.95.54.81          |E-mail: [email protected] |  DTN: 828-5481
Fax: (33) 92.95.62.34          |                          |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------



From [email protected]  Wed Mar  3 06:31:53 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA19722; Wed, 3 Mar 93 06:31:53 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA06795; Wed, 3 Mar 93 06:20:07 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from halcyon.com by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA06789; Wed, 3 Mar 93 06:20:04 -0800
Received: by halcyon.com id AA15839
 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for [email protected]); Wed, 3 Mar 1993 06:19:25 -0800
From: Ralph Sims <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: shell escapes (disabling) and quota error message
To: [email protected]
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1993 06:19:23 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]> from "Laurence Lundblade" at Mar 3, 93 07:52:54 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL13]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 652

> > 1.  How do I disable pine/pico from giving shell escapes to users (as

> Didn't know there was a shell escape(?).. You can disable ^Z in both by
> not giving the -z flag. That is the default is disabled.

I thought there was the ability to grab a shell in pico.  I briefly
looked, but could not find it.

> > 3.  How do I supress the "612 Megabytes over limit" message seen
> > when the index is accessed (we have quotas enabled)?

> You can recompile with quotas turned off, but this sounds like a bug.
> I believe there's a USE_QUOTAS define somewhere in the .h files that you
> can remove. What system is this for?

ULTRIX 4.1 on a MicroVAX.



From [email protected]  Wed Mar  3 06:48:44 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA20061; Wed, 3 Mar 93 06:48:44 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA06723; Wed, 3 Mar 93 04:55:53 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from csgrad.cs.vt.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA06717; Wed, 3 Mar 93 04:55:50 -0800
Received: by csgrad.cs.vt.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3)
       id AA24521; Wed, 3 Mar 1993 07:55:41 -0500
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1993 07:52:54 -0500 (EST)
From: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: shell escapes (disabling) and quota error message
To: Ralph Sims <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Hello Ralph,

> 1.  How do I disable pine/pico from giving shell escapes to users (as
> well as disabling ctrl-z).

Didn't know there was a shell escape(?).. You can disable ^Z in both by
not giving the -z flag. That is the default is disabled.

>
> 2.  How do I disable pine's ability to read news folders/spool?

You've have to recompile, commenting out the mail_link(newsdriver); line
in pine.c. (Not sure I got the exact line of the file, but it's close).


> 3.  How do I supress the "612 Megabytes over limit" message seen
> when the index is accessed (we have quotas enabled)?

You can recompile with quotas turned off, but this sounds like a bug.
I believe there's a USE_QUOTAS define somewhere in the .h files that you
can remove. What system is this for?


LL





From [email protected]  Wed Mar  3 07:06:37 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA20440; Wed, 3 Mar 93 07:06:37 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA07474; Wed, 3 Mar 93 06:50:29 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from jester.usask.ca by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA07468; Wed, 3 Mar 93 06:50:26 -0800
Received: by jester.usask.ca (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3)
       id AA24693; Wed, 3 Mar 1993 08:50:24 -0600 for [email protected]
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1993 08:47:51 -0600 (CST)
From: Earl Fogel <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: shell escapes (disabling) and quota error message
To: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Wed, 3 Mar 1993, Ralph Sims wrote:

> > > 3.  How do I supress the "612 Megabytes over limit" message seen
> > > when the index is accessed (we have quotas enabled)?
>
> > You can recompile with quotas turned off, but this sounds like a bug.
> > I believe there's a USE_QUOTAS define somewhere in the .h files that you
> > can remove. What system is this for?
>
> ULTRIX 4.1 on a MicroVAX.

We had a similar problem under Ultrix 4.2 on a DECstation.  When Pine was
recompiled *without* optimization, the problem disappeared.



From [email protected]  Wed Mar  3 07:57:29 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA21422; Wed, 3 Mar 93 07:57:29 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA07748; Wed, 3 Mar 93 07:45:12 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from csgrad.cs.vt.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA07742; Wed, 3 Mar 93 07:45:10 -0800
Received: by csgrad.cs.vt.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3)
       id AA26688; Wed, 3 Mar 1993 10:45:00 -0500
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1993 10:43:55 -0500 (EST)
From: Laurence Lundblade <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Choosing a Printer
To: Francois Donze <[email protected]>
Cc: Info Pine <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On the Other menu off the main screen there's an item to set the printer. When
you change it there it rewrites the .pinerc file.

LL


On Wed, 3 Mar 1993, Francois Donze wrote:

> I am using two different printers according to the type of doc to print:
>   desk printer for small doc
>   Printer server for double side printing ....
>
> What is the easiest way to change from one printer to the other?
>
> Right now, I quit pine, edit .pinerc, modify the printer value and
> enter pine again and print. Is there an easier way?
>
> /francois
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Digital Equipment SARL                |                          |
> 950 Route des Colles - BP 027 |      Francois Donze      |
> 06901 SOPHIA ANTIPOLIS                |--------------------------|francois donze@VBO
>       FRANCE                  |                          |  ULYSSE::DONZE
>  Tel: (33) 92.95.54.81                |E-mail: [email protected] |  DTN: 828-5481
>  Fax: (33) 92.95.62.34                |                          |
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>





From [email protected]  Wed Mar  3 09:45:01 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA24833; Wed, 3 Mar 93 09:45:01 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA08278; Wed, 3 Mar 93 09:33:18 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from tardis.svsu.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA08272; Wed, 3 Mar 93 09:33:16 -0800
Received: by tardis.svsu.edu (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C)
       id AA26199; Wed, 3 Mar 93 12:37:35 -0500
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1993 12:33:44 -0500 (EST)
From: "John J. Guettler" <[email protected]>
Reply-To: "John J. Guettler" <[email protected]>
Subject: Locking Keyboard Problem
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

I've just discovered that if I use the lock keyboard option, pine will not
accept my correct password to unlock the keyboard, and I have to break my
connection to force myself off the system.

I'm also having a similar problem with the imapd in the pine distribution.
It will not take a correct password, either.  I've telnet-ed to the imap
port and tried entering the command by hand, but it responds with bad
username or password.

My system is a DECstation 5000/25 running ULTRIX V4.2A.  I'm also running
at ENHANCED security level.  Could this be causing the problem?

       John J. Guettler
       Saginaw Valley State University
       University Center, MI  48710



From [email protected]  Wed Mar  3 11:07:36 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA27838; Wed, 3 Mar 93 11:07:36 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA09054; Wed, 3 Mar 93 10:56:22 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA09048; Wed, 3 Mar 93 10:56:21 -0800
Received: from Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM by Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU
       (NX5.67c/UW-NDC Revision: 2.26 ) id AA04927; Wed, 3 Mar 93 10:56:14 -0800
Received: from localhost by Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM
       (NX5.67c/UW-NDC/Panda Revision: 2.27.MRC ) id AA02470; Wed, 3 Mar 93 10:56:08 -0800
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1993 10:25:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <[email protected]>
Subject: re: Locking Keyboard Problem
To: "John J. Guettler" <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Wed, 3 Mar 1993 12:33:44 -0500 (EST), John J. Guettler wrote:
> I've just discovered that if I use the lock keyboard option, pine will not
> accept my correct password to unlock the keyboard, and I have to break my
> connection to force myself off the system.
>
> I'm also having a similar problem with the imapd in the pine distribution.
> It will not take a correct password, either.  I've telnet-ed to the imap
> port and tried entering the command by hand, but it responds with bad
> username or password.
>
> My system is a DECstation 5000/25 running ULTRIX V4.2A.  I'm also running
> at ENHANCED security level.  Could this be causing the problem?

That is almost certainly the problem.  Depending upon how ``secure'' your
system is, it may be impossible for an unprivileged task to verify a password.

The most common situation is that of ``shadow password files''.  This takes
the password information out of the password file and puts it in another file
that is supposed to have much stronger protection than the password file.

There are about as many different incompatible implementations of shadow
passwords as there are of UNIX.  Worse, even in the same flavor of UNIX there
are different implementations.  Some implementations are almost invisible; you
only need to relink Pine and imapd and everything will work.  Others require
code changes.  And in some of these, you simply can not win unless you have
root privileges.

All this to get around having a system call to validate passwords the way
other operating systems do...  :-(

The first thing to do in fixing the problem is to figure out what ENHANCED
security really means.  On ULTRIX 4.2A, try the following edits:

1) In c-client/makefile.ult, change the definition of LDFLAGS to be
       LDFLAGS = -lauth

2) In c-client/os_ult.h, add the line
       #include <auth.h>
  somewhere reasonable

3) In c-client/os_ult.c, in the routine server_login(), add the declaration
       struct authorization *au;
  and change the password test (the line after the comment ``validate
  password'') to be:
       if (!(au = getauthuid (pw->pw_uid)) ||
           strcmp (au->a_password,crypt16 (pass,au->a_password)))
         return NIL;           /* no shadow password or doesn't match */

Then rebuild.  You should get a working imapd out of this.  You may be able to
do something similar in Pine, depending upon how shadow passwords are
implemented -- as I said in some systems unprivileged processes are not
permitted to validate passwords.  imapd is alright since server_login() is
only called when imapd is not logged in (and thus is running with ID 0, giving
it root access).

-- Mark --



From [email protected]  Wed Mar  3 11:17:00 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA28133; Wed, 3 Mar 93 11:17:00 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA10077; Wed, 3 Mar 93 11:05:01 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from uvaarpa.Virginia.EDU by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA10071; Wed, 3 Mar 93 11:04:59 -0800
Received: from elvis.med.virginia.edu by uvaarpa.virginia.edu id aa10678;
         3 Mar 93 14:04 EST
Received: by elvis.med.Virginia.EDU (5.65c/1.34)
       id AA11459; Wed, 3 Mar 1993 14:04:54 -0500
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1993 14:02:14 +22306404 (EST)
From: "Steven D. Majewski" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Locking Keyboard Problem
To: "John J. Guettler" <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Wed, 3 Mar 1993, John J. Guettler wrote:

> I've just discovered that if I use the lock keyboard option, pine will not
> accept my correct password to unlock the keyboard, and I have to break my
> connection to force myself off the system.
>
> I'm also having a similar problem with the imapd in the pine distribution.
> It will not take a correct password, either.  I've telnet-ed to the imap
> port and tried entering the command by hand, but it responds with bad
> username or password.
>
> My system is a DECstation 5000/25 running ULTRIX V4.2A.  I'm also running
> at ENHANCED security level.  Could this be causing the problem?
>

I've never seen those problems on either a Sun or an IBM-RS6000, so my
guess is yes - ENHANCED security is causing the problem.

But I have no idea what that option does and I don't have a DECstation
to try to duplicate it.


===============================================================================
Steven D. Majewski                     University of Virginia
[email protected]                     Box 449 Health Sciences Center
Voice: (804)-982-0831                  1300 Jefferson Park Avenue
FAX:   (804)-982-1616                  Charlottesville, VA 22908



From [email protected]  Wed Mar  3 13:16:07 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA01924; Wed, 3 Mar 93 13:16:07 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA11332; Wed, 3 Mar 93 13:03:55 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from [192.68.161.2] by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA11326; Wed, 3 Mar 93 13:03:53 -0800
Received: from ALPHA.NOAAPMEL.GOV by ALPHA.NOAAPMEL.GOV (PMDF #12168) id
<[email protected]>; Wed, 3 Mar 1993 13:01 PDT
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1993 13:01 PDT
From: Laura McCarty <[email protected]>
Subject: a VMS version of Pine
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
X-Vms-To: IN%"[email protected]"
X-Vms-Cc: LMCCARTY

Sheryl Erez at the UW Network Information Center has told us:

>Nope.  Pine doesn't run on VMS.  Many have asked about it and a few
>have cont


From [email protected]  Wed Mar  3 13:45:25 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA02679; Wed, 3 Mar 93 13:45:25 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA11680; Wed, 3 Mar 93 13:26:02 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from sussdirt.rdg.ac.uk by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA11674; Wed, 3 Mar 93 13:26:00 -0800
Received: from reading.ac.uk by susssys1.reading.ac.uk with SMTP (PP)
         id <[email protected]>; Wed, 3 Mar 1993 21:23:36 +0000
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1993 21:23:17 +0000 (GMT)
From: Mike Roch <[email protected]>
Subject: Emergency exit from Lockscreen
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9303032117.A19215-9100000@suma1>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

This certainly aborts Pine, but seems to freeze the session anyway.
Could (should?) it log out too?

Mike

===================================================================
Mike Roch, Computer Services Centre,         [email protected]
University of Reading,                             Tel: 0734 318430
Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AX.                    Fax: 0734 753094





From [email protected]  Thu Mar  4 00:27:13 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA16712; Thu, 4 Mar 93 00:27:13 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA15958; Thu, 4 Mar 93 00:12:47 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from danpost4.uni-c.dk by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA15952; Thu, 4 Mar 93 00:12:45 -0800
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Received: from danpost4.uni-c.dk by danpost4.uni-c.dk
         id <[email protected]>; Thu, 4 Mar 1993 09:11:51 +0100
Subject: Re: Locking Keyboard Problem
To: [email protected] (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1993 09:11:49 +0100 (MET)
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]> from "Steven D. Majewski" at Mar 3, 93 02:02:14 pm
Organisation: UNI-C, Danish Computer Centre for Research and Education
X-Address: Building 305 DTH, DK-2800 Lyngby, Denmark
X-Phone: +45 45 93 83 55
X-Fax: +45 45 93 02 20
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 252
From: Erik Lawaetz <[email protected]>

> I've never seen those problems on either a Sun or an IBM-RS6000, so my
> guess is yes - ENHANCED security is causing the problem.

You'll experience the same problem with SunOS, but SUN's approach
makes it a lot easier to patch than Ultrix.

--Erik


From [email protected]  Fri Mar  5 08:23:13 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA28413; Fri, 5 Mar 93 08:23:13 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA29443; Fri, 5 Mar 93 08:09:59 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from columbus.bwh.harvard.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA29437; Fri, 5 Mar 93 08:09:56 -0800
Received: by columbus.bwh.harvard.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1)
       id AA08783; Fri, 5 Mar 93 11:11:04 EST
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1993 10:54:40 -0500 (EST)
From: "Peter W. Karlson" <[email protected]>
Subject: Pico printing?
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9303051040.B8310-8100000@columbus>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I guess this question is for Mike Seibel, has anybody requested a print
function in Pico or are there any plans for adding it?

-pk





From [email protected]  Fri Mar  5 08:42:33 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA28979; Fri, 5 Mar 93 08:42:33 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA25613; Fri, 5 Mar 93 08:33:01 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from mhc.mtholyoke.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA25605; Fri, 5 Mar 93 08:32:59 -0800
Received: by mhc.mtholyoke.edu (5.57/Ultrix4.2a_921103.02)
       id AA02354; Fri, 5 Mar 93 11:32:58 -0500
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1993 11:31:02 -0500 (EST)
From: KaReN <[email protected]>
Reply-To: KaReN <[email protected]>
Subject: Is there a Pine FAQ?
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII


I ask because I think I'm about to ask a couple of FAQs!!

1.  When will Pine's print command work over appletalk?
       (or does it already and I'm missing something)

2.  Is there a way to delete a batch of messages, rather than one at a time?

Thanks for any info!

Karen

 ____  ____    ____  _____   _________
/___/ /___/|  /___/ /___ /| /_______ /|  *  Karen M. Bourque
|   \/   | |  |   | |   | | |       | |  *  Senior Consultant
|        | |  |   |_|   | | |   ____|/   *  User Services - CIS
|  /\/\  | |  |   __    | | |   |_____   *  Mount Holyoke College
|  |  |  | |  |   | |   | | |   |___/ |  *  South Hadley, MA 01075
|  |  |  | |  |   | |   | | |       | |  *  [email protected]
|__|  |__|/   |___| |___|/  |_______|/   *  [email protected]







From [email protected]  Fri Mar  5 09:17:47 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA00224; Fri, 5 Mar 93 09:17:47 -0800
Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA26030; Fri, 5 Mar 93 09:07:20 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from tardis.svsu.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA26024; Fri, 5 Mar 93 09:07:18 -0800
Received: by tardis.svsu.edu (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C)
       id AA13775; Fri, 5 Mar 93 12:11:45 -0500
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1993 12:01:40 -0500 (EST)
From: "John J. Guettler" <[email protected]>
Subject: File movement control-key sequences
To: [email protected]
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Any talk of putting control-key sequences in Pico (and the Pine composer)
that will take you to the top or bottom of the file, or, perhaps, to a
specific line number?



From [email protected]  Fri Mar  5 09:18:04 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA00245; Fri, 5 Mar 93 09:18:04 -0800
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA00240; Fri, 5 Mar 93 09:07:52 -0800
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Received: from shiva2.cac.washington.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA00234; Fri, 5 Mar 93 09:07:50 -0800
Received: by shiva2.cac.washington.edu
       (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA29284; Fri, 5 Mar 93 09:07:46 -0800
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1993 09:00:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Seibel <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pico printing?
To: "Peter W. Karlson" <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9303051040.B8310-8100000@columbus>
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

It's been on the list for a while, but finding the time and command key to
implement it is the problem!  One option (if it's "attached-to-ansi"
support you're looking for) might be the short ansiprt.c utility included
in the contrib source.  It won't solve the printing from within pico
problem, but could be used to support local printing similar to pine but
from the system command prompt.

Hope this helps!

Michael Seibel
Networks and Distributed Computing              [email protected]
University of Washington, Seattle               (206) 543 - 0359



On Fri, 5 Mar 1993, Peter W. Karlson wrote:

> I guess this question is for Mike Seibel, has anybody requested a print
> function in Pico or are there any plans for adding it?
>
> -pk
>
>