Editor's Note: Minutes received after the cut-off for inclusion in the
Proceedings.

Minutes of the TCP/UDP over CLNP-addressed Networks Working Group (TUBA)}
Reported by Peter Ford/LLNL

Keith Sklower (UC Berkeley) reported on his implementation of TUBA
using BSD 4.4 as a software base.  The total number of lines  of added
or changed source code, including ifdefs, turns out to be around 700
lines, with about 200 lines devoted to the TCP/UDP glue layer for
CLNP.   These changes do not include changes to gethostbyname() where
Keith indicated he wanted to get Bill Manning's code.   It was noted
that the API issues, such as gethostbyname() and socket() in Unix, were
very important and that these interfaces were not worked on in the IETF
but in other standards organizations such as IEEE POSIX.

The discussion quickly turned to the issue of what to use for TCP/UDP
connection identifiers.  Ross Callon (DEC) supported the use of the
CLNP NSAP ID field as the TCP connection identifier since  it is
possible to build systems where the ID field does not change when the
NSAP might change due to changes in routing such as the case in some
implementations for mobile hosts.  Keith  explained that using the NSAP
would be better since it places no restrictions on NSAP format.  Brian
Carpenter stated that TUBA has great utility for those who are going to
use TUBA but are not really part of the IP Internet, so there should
not be restrictions placed on NSAP formats for the use of TUBA which
would impede its use in this context.  There were several comments
speculation that perhaps 6 bytes of ID would not be enough in the
future  and that administration of this ID space might prove to be
problematic.    Several people noted that the pseudoheader may have
outlived its usefulness.

Vint Cerf explained the origin and rationale for the TCP pseudoheader.
When it was decided to split the functionality  of old TCP into current
TCP and IP, there  was concern as to how to detect corruption of TCP
connection identifiers.  It would have been possible to directly store the IP
addresses in the TCP header or use the pseudoheader which goes into
the IP header to get IP addresses.  Several people
asked about the probability of this sort of problem, and Vint noted
that something always goes wrong and that TCP has benefited
tremendously by designing accordingly.

The group reached a tentative consensus on an implementation agreement
to use the entire NSAP for the purposes of generating TCP connection
Ids along with the NSEL and TCP/UDP Port numbers.  This will allow trial
implementations to proceed.  Those who want to implement alternatives
are free to do so for experimental testing, but for the sake of
interoperability tests of TUBA, implementors are encouraged
to implement along the lines of the trial implementation agreement.
Keith Sklower is looking into the licensing issues of his
implementation and will report to the TUBA list.

The issue of network translation boxes came up and was quickly tabled as
not being germane to the goals of developing TUBA at this time.
Network translation may  resurface once  TUBA has been completely
specified.

The discussion shifted to the issues TUBA documentation and what TUBA
transition would look like.    Ross  Callon discussed the "son of rfc
1347" which is the core TUBA document.  Ross also noted that his TUBA
addressing internet-draft needs to be updated and noted that some other
topics needed to be discussed in it such as: EIDs, limitation of CLNP
addressing to 20 bytes is not mandatory, the nature of scaling and
flexibility of CLNP NSAPs, and some kind of analysis of future
Internetwork topologies which reflect  possible futures such as telco
provided switching and its impact on the "branchiness" of the network.
Dave Piscitello reported that he is working on updating his document
on the use of CLNP in the TUBA environment.  Bill Manning and Richard
Collela reported they have made significant changes to the  DNS NSAP
resource record RFC and hope to reissue it soon.

A brief discussion of transition issues revealed that they were very
complicated and a second TUBA meeting was scheduled for Friday (20 Nov.
92).

TUBA transition meeting (20 Nov. 92)

The initial topic was the question of whether  to assume that all the
infrastructure would become CLNP capable vrs. the use of  encapsulation
or network layer translation.  The  majority of the group is in favor
of assuming that a ubiquitous CLNP infrastructure can be deployed in
a timely manner and it was noted that this is progressing pretty well.
Brian Carpenter suggested tighter coupling between the TUBA group and
other groups interested in CLNP deployment: HEP, etc.

Bill Manning reported on his NSAP DNS work and reported that  he has an
implementation of BIND  which handles NSAPs.  He has some changes he
still needs to make, but is willing to share his implementation with
others.  He is deploying this for testing on ns.sesquinet.net.

Dave Katz's name was suggested to contribute a document on the use of
ES-IS and dynamic host addressing in the TUBA environment.  Mark agreed
to ask Dave. Frank Solensky mentioned he is studying the use of large
addresses, including SIP, TUBA, PIP, etc., and their impact on APIs and
application interfaces and  hopes to generate a document on these
topics.

Work on new documents was discussed and divided up.  It was pointed out
that the TUBA group needs to do a better job of documenting the
transition process to get to a TUBA world.  Yakov Rekhter has a Mobile
Hosts document he would like to contribute.  Bill Manning, John Curran
and Mark Knopper signed up for a detailed transition plan document.
John Curran, Brian Carpenter and Peter Ford will finish up the response
to the IPv7 requirements fulfillment document pending output from the
requirements BOF held earlier this week.

It was decided a TUBA meeting in late January  would be needed to keep
TUBA progressing.

Attendees

Roland Acra              [email protected]
Cengiz Alaettinoglu      [email protected]
Philip Almquist          [email protected]
Jules Aronson            [email protected]
Nagaraj Arunkumar        [email protected]
William Barns            [email protected]
Bryan Beecher            [email protected]
Shiraz Bhanji            [email protected]
David Bolen              [email protected]
Ross Callon              [email protected]
Brian Carpenter          [email protected]
George Chang             [email protected]
Henry Clark              [email protected]
Richard Colella          [email protected]
Michael Collins          [email protected]
Michael Conn             [email protected]
John Dale                [email protected]
Osmund de Souza          [email protected]
Richard desJardins       [email protected]
David Dubois             [email protected]
Jacques Dugast           [email protected]
Dino Farinacci           [email protected]
Eric Fleischman          [email protected]
Peter Ford               [email protected]
Shoji Fukutomi           [email protected]
Peter Furniss            [email protected]
Masayoshi Gohara         [email protected]
Heather Gray             [email protected]
Thomas Hacker            [email protected]
William Haggerty         [email protected]
Joel Halpern             [email protected]
Susan Hares              [email protected]
Tim Howes                [email protected].
Kathleen Huber           [email protected]
David Jacobson           [email protected]
Dwight Jamieson          [email protected]
Matthew Jonson           [email protected]
Merike Kaeo              [email protected]
Akira Kato               [email protected]
Dave Katz                [email protected]
Mark Knopper             [email protected]
John Krawczyk            [email protected]
Tony Li                  [email protected]
David Lin                [email protected]

                                  1
^L
Tracy Mallory            [email protected]
Bill Manning             [email protected]
Matt Mathis              [email protected]
Jun Matsukata            [email protected]
Donald Merritt           [email protected]
David Meyer              [email protected]
Dave Monachello          [email protected]
Robert Moose             [email protected]
Dennis Morris            [email protected]
Jun Murai                [email protected]
Tu Nguyen                [email protected]
Andy Nicholson           [email protected]
Peder Norgaard           [email protected]
Andrew Partan            [email protected]
Laura Pate               [email protected]
David Piscitello         [email protected]
Yakov Rekhter            [email protected]
April Richstein          [email protected]
Henry Sanders            [email protected]
Dallas Scott             [email protected]
John Scudder             [email protected]
Paul Serice              [email protected]
Keith Sklower            [email protected]
Frank Solensky           [email protected]
Richard Thomas           [email protected]
Paul Traina              [email protected]
Iain Wacey               [email protected]
William Warner           [email protected]
Luanne Waul              [email protected]
Guy Wells                [email protected]
Evan Wetstone            [email protected]
Kirk Williams            [email protected]
Linda Winkler            [email protected]
Cathy Wittbrodt          [email protected]

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