A GPT-4 CONVERSATION ABOUT NGE
Spoiler warning for Neon Genesis Evangelion stop reading if you've not watched
the show, and don't want anything spoiled, this conversation takes place after a
viewing of the show, and so discusses specific details.
I'm currently underwhelmed by the LMMs, they're neat parlor tricks, but I always
seem to hit a wall, they're confident idiots, the most dangerous kind.. A
glorified search engine at best.. But I digress, I'm actually interested in
them, as potential, future tools for thought, as assistant brains, who know
everything and is a million times smarter than me, to help me think better!
By now I hope to have convinced you that I'm not trying to sell you on GPT, yet
anyway, and I'm not terribly impressed by what I've seen so far (this
conversation included).
I recently re-watched Neon Genesis Evangelion, and episodes 25 and 26 are always
a bit hard for me to understand. I've somewhat given up on the idea that they
can truly be understood, but lot's of people have tried. I find them valuable
additions to the events we see in End of Evangelion, I don't think they should
be skipped, and I don't think they should stand alone either.
Having just seen the "original" show (+ End of Evangelion) It thought it might
be interesting to see what GPT-4 could tell me, there is, after all, a lot
written on the show. While it's repeating itself all the time (just like me!)
which makes for sometimes dry reading, I did find the conversation enjoyable,
and it even managed to clarify a few things for me, and correct at least one
false assumption (near the end of the conversation).
Generally, the conversation leads me to believe that I've gotten a good
understanding of NGE, then again, I have my doubts as to how much my leading
questions influenced the answers, so it might be that it simply looks like I
understand it because GPT is telling me what I want to hear? One of the flaws of
the technology in its present form, I don't KNOW when it's just making things
up, I guess we should assume that it always does, but just so happens to also
get it right once in a while.. Then again, that's probably not too far from how
humans do it? I guess I want my AI to be able to speculate, and also be aware
when it does.
Without further ado, here's the coversation, terse as it is:
How much do you know about the anime show Neon Genesis Evangelion and the
philosophy within it ?
Neon Genesis Evangelion is a critically acclaimed anime series created by
Hideaki Anno and produced by Gainax. It originally aired between 1995 and 1996,
and has since been followed by multiple adaptations, including films and manga.
The show is famous for its exploration of complex themes, including
psychological trauma, depression, and the nature of human existence, as well as
its use of religious symbolism and philosophical references.
The show is set in a post-apocalyptic world where teenagers pilot giant robots
called Evangelions to combat monstrous beings known as Angels. However, the
series is not just a typical mecha action show; it delves into the inner
struggles and emotional turmoil of its characters, making it a deeply
psychological and philosophical work.
Here are some philosophical elements and themes present in Neon Genesis
Evangelion:
* Existentialism: The show explores existential themes such as the search for
meaning in life, the nature of existence, and individualism. Characters
struggle to find their purpose and cope with feelings of alienation, which
mirrors the human condition.
* Freudian psychoanalysis: The series incorporates ideas from Sigmund Freud's
theories, particularly the concepts of the id, ego, and superego. Characters'
personalities and relationships reflect these concepts, as well as the idea
of the "Oedipus complex" and other aspects of psychoanalysis.
* Hedgehog's Dilemma: A recurring theme in the show is the Hedgehog's Dilemma,
which is a metaphor for the challenges of human intimacy. It represents the
idea that people want to be close to others but fear getting hurt, like
hedgehogs who want to huddle together for warmth but risk injuring each other
with their sharp quills. This dilemma is at the core of many characters'
struggles to connect with others.
* Religious symbolism: The series incorporates various religious symbols and
themes, primarily from Christianity and Kabbalah. While some of these
references have thematic significance, others may serve as aesthetic elements
without deeper meaning. Nevertheless, they contribute to the show's enigmatic
atmosphere.
* Instrumentality: One of the central plotlines revolves around the "Human
Instrumentality Project," a plan to merge all human consciousness into a
single entity, transcending individuality and eliminating pain and
loneliness. This concept touches on ideas related to collectivism,
self-actualization, and the nature of individual consciousness.
While these themes are an integral part of Neon Genesis Evangelion, the show is
also known for its dense, often cryptic storytelling, leaving ample room for
interpretation. As a result, viewers' understanding and appreciation of the
series' philosophical elements may vary depending on their own perspectives and
experiences.
Summarize the last two episodes
The last two episodes of the original Neon Genesis Evangelion series (episodes
25 and 26) are a significant departure from the earlier episodes in terms of
storytelling and presentation. Instead of continuing the plot in a linear
fashion, the episodes delve into the psychological states of the main
characters—Shinji Ikari, Rei Ayanami, Asuka Langley Soryu, and Misato
Katsuragi—as they undergo the Human Instrumentality Project.
Episode 25, titled "Do you love me?", primarily focuses on the internal
struggles of the characters as they confront their deepest fears, insecurities,
and traumas. They are subjected to a series of introspective dialogues and
abstract visual sequences. These explorations reveal the core issues that have
plagued the characters throughout the series, such as their desires for
validation, feelings of abandonment, and difficulties forming genuine
connections with others.
Episode 26, titled "Take care of yourself.", continues the psychological
exploration and presents an alternate reality where the characters lead normal
lives without Evangelions or Angels. This alternate reality highlights the
potential for personal growth and the importance of self-acceptance. In the end,
Shinji is able to come to terms with his existence and embraces his
individuality. He realizes that his reality and self-worth are shaped by his own
perceptions and choices. The series concludes with the other characters
applauding Shinji, congratulating him for finding his own path and affirming his
decision to accept himself.
These episodes have been the subject of much debate among fans due to their
unconventional and highly abstract nature. While some appreciate the
psychological focus and the exploration of the characters' inner worlds, others
find the episodes confusing and unsatisfying as a conclusion to the series. In
response to this mixed reception, Hideaki Anno and Gainax later released the
film "The End of Evangelion," which provides an alternate ending to the series
that is more in line with the earlier episodes' narrative style.
So, when Shinji finally comes to terms, is that because he cease to exist as an
individual as the instrumentality completes or does instrumentality ultimately
fail and leave him as an individual ?
In the original TV series ending (episodes 25 and 26), the focus is primarily on
Shinji's psychological journey and self-discovery. The outcome of the Human
Instrumentality Project is not explicitly shown or addressed. However, the
conclusion suggests that Shinji, by accepting himself and embracing his
individuality, has chosen to reject the idea of Instrumentality, affirming the
importance of individual existence.
In "The End of Evangelion," the alternate ending provided by the film, the
outcome of the Human Instrumentality Project is depicted more explicitly.
Instrumentality is initiated, and all human beings are merged into a single
collective consciousness called LCL. However, Shinji ultimately rejects
Instrumentality and decides to maintain his individuality. As a result, the
process is reversed, and it is implied that those who wish to reclaim their
individual existences can do so by finding their way back from the LCL.
In both endings, Shinji's decision to accept and embrace his individuality is a
pivotal moment. He chooses to face the challenges and pain that come with being
an individual, rather than dissolving into a collective existence that would
erase his unique identity. The core message is the affirmation of individuality
and the importance of self-acceptance, regardless of the challenges and
hardships one might face in life.
Did the rest of humanity have this option to reject instrumentality and retain
their individuality too, or was Shinji uniquely privileged to do this ?
In "The End of Evangelion," it is suggested that the rest of humanity also has
the option to reject Instrumentality and regain their individuality, but the
choice is not as explicitly explored as it is for Shinji. Shinji serves as the
primary decision-maker during the Human Instrumentality Project, and his choice
to reject it sets a precedent for others to follow.
When Shinji decides to maintain his individuality and accept the pain that comes
with existence, the process of Instrumentality is reversed. Rei/Lilith, the
being responsible for initiating Instrumentality, disintegrates, and the sea of
LCL is formed. It is implied that those who wish to reclaim their individual
existences can do so by finding their way back from the LCL, as long as they can
imagine themselves in their own hearts and minds.
While Shinji's choice is central to the narrative, the possibility of others
making a similar decision is left open, allowing for individual choice and
self-determination. However, the extent to which other characters or humanity as
a whole exercise this option is not explicitly depicted in the film, leaving it
open to interpretation.
But not Rei ?
Rei's fate in "The End of Evangelion" is more ambiguous than that of the other
characters. As a key figure in the initiation of the Human Instrumentality
Project, Rei is central to the process. During the film, she merges with Lilith,
an ancient being that plays a crucial role in the project, and becomes a
god-like entity known as Rei/Lilith.
When Shinji rejects Instrumentality and decides to maintain his individuality,
Rei/Lilith disintegrates and releases the souls of humanity back into the world
in the form of LCL. Rei's existence as an individual is seemingly lost during
this process, as she has merged with Lilith and effectively ceased to exist as a
separate being.
However, Rei's presence is still felt in the aftermath of Instrumentality.
Throughout the film's final scenes, there are multiple sightings of a ghostly
apparition resembling Rei. This suggests that while Rei may no longer exist as a
distinct individual, her essence or spirit lingers in some form, watching over
the world and the characters she left behind.
The nature of Rei's existence and her ultimate fate are left open to
interpretation, much like many other aspects of the film and the series as a
whole.
How about Misato ?
In "The End of Evangelion," Misato Katsuragi meets a tragic fate before the
completion of the Human Instrumentality Project. As NERV is under attack by the
JSSDF (Japan Strategic Self-Defense Force), Misato takes on a protective role
for Shinji, guiding him to the Evangelion Unit-01.
During their attempt to reach the Evangelion, Misato is critically wounded.
Despite her injuries, she encourages Shinji to face his fears and make his own
decisions. She shares a final, intimate moment with Shinji, kissing him and
promising that they would "do the rest" when he returns. Shortly after Shinji
leaves to board the Evangelion, Misato succumbs to her injuries and dies in an
explosion.
Misato's death occurs before the initiation of the Human Instrumentality
Project, so her participation in it is not explicitly depicted. However, since
the souls of humanity are merged during Instrumentality, it could be assumed
that Misato's soul is included in this process. With the reversal of
Instrumentality, individuals have the option to return to their separate
existences if they can imagine themselves in their own hearts and minds. Whether
Misato is able to reclaim her individual existence after her death, though, is
left open to interpretation.
But she couldn't reclaim, because she died before the instrumentality, if she
could, it'd mean that everyone who died before instrumentality in the history of
mankind, would have that option ?
You raise an interesting point, and indeed, the matter of whether Misato, or
anyone who died before Instrumentality, could reclaim their individual existence
is ambiguous and open to interpretation.
The End of Evangelion does not explicitly address the possibility of deceased
individuals returning to life after the reversal of Instrumentality. The film
focuses primarily on Shinji's experience and choices, leaving many questions
unanswered.
In the context of the Evangelion universe, it is unclear whether the Human
Instrumentality Project involves only the souls of the living or if it also
encompasses those who have died. Consequently, the extent to which Misato or any
other deceased individual could potentially reclaim their existence remains
uncertain.
As with many aspects of Neon Genesis Evangelion, the outcome is left to the
viewers' interpretation and imagination. Different viewers might have different
opinions on the matter based on their understanding of the series' themes and
narrative.
Thank you.
You're welcome! If you have any more questions or need further clarification
about Neon Genesis Evangelion or any other topic, please don't hesitate to ask.
I'm here to help!
If you review our previous conversation on this topic, did Seele actually
achieve their goal ?
In reviewing our previous conversation, the ultimate goal of SEELE, the
secretive organization behind the Human Instrumentality Project, was to merge
all human consciousness into a single entity, transcending individuality and
eliminating pain and loneliness.
In "The End of Evangelion," SEELE's plan is partially successful, as the Human
Instrumentality Project is initiated, and all human beings are merged into a
single collective consciousness called LCL. However, the plan ultimately fails
because Shinji, who plays a central role in the process, decides to reject
Instrumentality and maintain his individuality.
Shinji's choice to embrace individual existence and accept the pain and
challenges that come with it leads to the reversal of Instrumentality. It is
implied that those who wish to reclaim their individual existences can do so by
finding their way back from the LCL.
As a result, SEELE does not achieve its goal in its entirety, since the unified
consciousness they sought is not sustained. The ultimate outcome leaves room for
individual choice and self-determination, allowing humanity to decide whether to
return to their separate existences or remain part of the collective
consciousness.
Where do Gendos agenda differ from that of Seele ?
Gendo Ikari, the commander of NERV and Shinji's father, has a different agenda
from that of SEELE, even though he appears to be working with them initially.
While SEELE aims to initiate the Human Instrumentality Project to merge all
human consciousness into a single entity and transcend individuality, Gendo has
a more personal goal in mind.
Gendo's primary motivation is to reunite with his deceased wife, Yui Ikari, who
was absorbed into Evangelion Unit-01 during a contact experiment. Gendo believes
that by manipulating the events surrounding the Human Instrumentality Project
and controlling the powerful beings Adam, Lilith, and Rei Ayanami (a clone of
Yui with the soul of Lilith), he can achieve his objective.
In essence, Gendo's agenda is driven by his desire to be with Yui once again,
even if it means betraying SEELE and manipulating the course of events to serve
his own interests. This divergence in objectives leads to a conflict between
Gendo and SEELE in "The End of Evangelion," as both parties strive to realize
their respective goals through the Human Instrumentality Project. Ultimately,
Gendo's plan fails when Rei Ayanami chooses to merge with Lilith on her own
terms and initiate Instrumentality according to her will, rather than following
Gendo's plan.
How is Gendos plan incompatible with that of Seele ? Why are they in opposition
?
Gendo's plan and SEELE's plan for the Human Instrumentality Project are
fundamentally different in their objectives and execution. While both plans
involve initiating Instrumentality, their goals and the consequences for
humanity differ.
SEELE's goal is to merge all human consciousness into a single entity,
essentially creating a state of collective existence where individuality and the
pain and suffering associated with it would be eliminated. They believe that
this outcome is the next step in human evolution and will lead to a more perfect
existence for humanity.
Gendo's plan, on the other hand, is driven by his personal desire to reunite
with his deceased wife, Yui Ikari. He intends to manipulate the events
surrounding Instrumentality, using the powerful beings Adam, Lilith, and Rei
Ayanami, to achieve this goal. Gendo's plan doesn't prioritize humanity's
evolution or collective existence; instead, it focuses on his own interests and
desires.
The opposition between Gendo and SEELE arises because their goals are not
aligned, and their plans for Instrumentality cannot coexist. Gendo's actions to
pursue his personal agenda threaten SEELE's vision for humanity, which creates a
conflict of interests. Additionally, Gendo's secretive nature and manipulative
tactics create mistrust between him and SEELE.
In "The End of Evangelion," the conflict between Gendo and SEELE comes to a head
as both parties attempt to initiate their versions of Instrumentality.
Ultimately, neither Gendo nor SEELE achieve their goals entirely, as Rei Ayanami
chooses to follow her own path, initiating Instrumentality on her terms and
allowing Shinji Ikari to make the final decision regarding humanity's fate.
Wouldn't Seeles plans achieve what Gendo wants ? If all humanity is united, then
he would also be united with Yui.
While SEELE's plans would indeed merge all human consciousness into a single
entity, Gendo's intentions and desires are more specific and personal. He wants
to reunite with Yui as an individual, preserving their unique identities and the
bond they shared. Merging all of humanity into a collective existence might not
fulfill Gendo's desire for a genuine reunion with Yui, as their individuality
would be lost in the process.
Gendo's plan involves manipulating the Instrumentality process to create a
scenario where he can be with Yui while maintaining their distinct identities.
In contrast, SEELE's vision of a united humanity would dissolve the individual
identities of everyone, including Gendo and Yui, making their reunion less
meaningful in Gendo's perspective.
This difference in the desired outcomes for Instrumentality is what ultimately
puts Gendo's and SEELE's plans at odds. Gendo's personal goal conflicts with
SEELE's vision for humanity, leading to their opposition and eventual
confrontation in "The End of Evangelion."
So the difference is that Gendo wants to reunite with Yui without merging with
her ?
Yes, the primary difference between Gendo's and SEELE's goals lies in the nature
of the desired reunion with Yui. Gendo wants to reunite with Yui as individuals,
preserving their unique identities and the connection they shared. He aims to
manipulate the Instrumentality process in a way that allows him to be with Yui
without losing their distinct selves.
In contrast, SEELE's plan of merging all human consciousness into a single
entity would eliminate individuality, resulting in a collective existence where
the separate identities of Gendo and Yui would be lost. While Gendo might
technically be "united" with Yui in this scenario, the meaningfulness of their
reunion would be diminished due to the loss of their individual selves.
Gendo's personal motivations and desire to reunite with Yui without merging with
her are what set his plan apart from SEELE's vision for humanity and lead to the
conflict between them.
Yui died before instrumentality, but if Gendo can be reunited with her, it means
that everyone who died before instrumentality can effectively be brought back to
life ?
The nature of Yui's "death" in the Evangelion universe is unique compared to
other characters who died before Instrumentality. When Yui Ikari participated in
a contact experiment with Evangelion Unit-01, her body was destroyed, but her
soul was absorbed into the Eva, essentially becoming a part of the giant
humanoid. As a result, Yui's existence continued in a different form, which made
the possibility of Gendo reuniting with her more plausible within the context of
the story.
In Gendo's plan, he aims to manipulate the Instrumentality process to reunite
with Yui's soul, which is still present within Unit-01. His plan does not
involve resurrecting the dead in the conventional sense, but rather focuses on
reestablishing a connection with Yui's soul.
The situation with Yui is specific to her circumstances and doesn't necessarily
apply to all individuals who died before Instrumentality. It is unclear whether
Gendo's plan or the Human Instrumentality Project could bring back others who
died before the process, as the Evangelion series does not explicitly address
this issue. The fate of deceased characters and the potential for their return
to life is left open to interpretation, much like many other aspects of the
series.
In the original ending, what actually started instrumentality ? Do we actually
see it start ?
In the original TV series ending (episodes 25 and 26), the focus is primarily on
the psychological journey and introspection of the main characters, particularly
Shinji. The events leading up to and surrounding the initiation of the Human
Instrumentality Project are not depicted explicitly in these episodes, and the
process itself is not shown in a straightforward manner.
Instead, the episodes present a series of abstract, introspective scenes that
delve into the characters' thoughts, emotions, and struggles. While it is
implied that the Human Instrumentality Project has been initiated or is taking
place during these episodes, the exact trigger for the process is not clearly
defined.
The original ending leaves many questions unanswered, which led to the creation
of "The End of Evangelion" movie. The movie provides an alternate ending that
depicts the events leading up to and during the Human Instrumentality Project
more explicitly, offering a different perspective on the conclusion of the
story.
Is instrumentality a metaphor for personal development ?
The Human Instrumentality Project in Neon Genesis Evangelion can be interpreted
as a metaphor for personal development, although the series contains multiple
layers of symbolism and meaning that can be analyzed from various perspectives.
From the standpoint of personal development, Instrumentality represents the
process of breaking down emotional barriers and confronting one's inner
struggles. As individuals merge into a collective consciousness, their personal
boundaries dissolve, forcing them to confront their deepest fears, insecurities,
and desires.
In the original TV series ending and "The End of Evangelion," the main
characters, especially Shinji, undergo a deep introspection that leads to
self-discovery and personal growth. Instrumentality serves as a catalyst for
this transformation, allowing them to confront their psychological issues and
consider the value of individuality, relationships, and human existence.
Ultimately, the choice to accept or reject Instrumentality becomes a reflection
of the characters' personal development. Shinji's decision to reject
Instrumentality and embrace individual existence, despite the pain and suffering
that comes with it, signifies his growth and newfound understanding of the
importance of self-determination and genuine connections with others.
While Instrumentality can be seen as a metaphor for personal development, it is
essential to note that Neon Genesis Evangelion is a complex work with numerous
themes, symbols, and philosophical ideas. The series can be interpreted in many
different ways, and the meaning of Instrumentality may vary depending on the
viewer's perspective.
How does it relate to Hideakis depression ?
Hideaki Anno, the creator of Neon Genesis Evangelion, has been open about his
struggles with depression, and many elements of the series, including the Human
Instrumentality Project, can be seen as reflections of his personal experiences.
The series explores themes of loneliness, identity, self-worth, and the
difficulty of forming genuine connections with others, which are issues that can
be closely tied to depression. The Human Instrumentality Project represents the
merging of all human consciousness into a single entity, which can be seen as a
metaphor for the desire to escape the pain and isolation of individual
existence.
Anno's depression likely influenced his portrayal of the characters in
Evangelion, who each grapple with their own emotional turmoil and psychological
struggles. Shinji, the protagonist, is a prime example of a character who
embodies the feelings of worthlessness, anxiety, and isolation that are often
associated with depression.
The process of Instrumentality, which forces the characters to confront their
inner fears, desires, and insecurities, can be interpreted as a reflection of
Anno's own journey through depression and the process of self-examination and
growth that often accompanies it.
In this context, the ultimate rejection of Instrumentality by Shinji and the
affirmation of individual existence, despite its inherent pain and suffering,
can be seen as a message of hope and a testament to the importance of personal
growth, self-discovery, and genuine human connection. Neon Genesis Evangelion,
through its exploration of these themes, serves as an expression of Anno's
personal experiences and his journey to overcome his depression.
Can episodes 25 and 26 be considered different perspectives, and as such,
important, to the events depicted in End of Evangelion ?
Yes, episodes 25 and 26 of the original Neon Genesis Evangelion TV series can be
considered as different perspectives on the events leading up to and during the
Human Instrumentality Project compared to "The End of Evangelion." The original
ending and the movie complement each other in many ways, and both can be seen as
important to understanding the series as a whole.
Episodes 25 and 26 focus primarily on the psychological and introspective
aspects of the story, delving into the characters' thoughts, emotions, and
struggles as they confront their inner selves. These episodes provide valuable
insight into the characters' mental states and the process of personal growth
they undergo during Instrumentality.
On the other hand, "The End of Evangelion" provides a more explicit and detailed
depiction of the events surrounding the Human Instrumentality Project. It
presents an alternate ending that offers a different perspective on the
conclusion of the story, showing the external factors and physical events that
lead to the initiation and eventual reversal of Instrumentality.
Both the original ending and "The End of Evangelion" contribute essential
elements to the overall narrative of Neon Genesis Evangelion. The TV series
ending allows for a deeper understanding of the characters' psychological
development, while the movie provides context for the broader plot and events of
the story. Viewing both the original ending and the movie can offer a more
comprehensive appreciation of the themes, ideas, and messages presented in the
series.
Thank you.
You're welcome! If you have any more questions or need further clarification
about Neon Genesis Evangelion or any other topic, please don't hesitate to ask.
I'm here to help!
