Subj : linked
To   : Peter Knapper
From : Frank Vest
Date : Sat Dec 14 2002 11:59 pm

On (15 Dec 02) Peter Knapper wrote to Frank Vest...

Hello Peter,

FV> If you don't list your IP or domain, you don't fly the IP flag.
PK> You are of course, then saying there is no other possible way to find
PK> out how to contact that node, which of course is not correct....;-)

FV> Not at all. Each Node can set up contacts with each other without the
FV> use of any Nodelist. Even POTS Nodes can do this. :)

PK> Ok, I think I can see where you are heading. Let me re-phrase my
PK> statement slightly. By saying a sysop can't list an IP FLAG if he does
PK> not list the his domain name in the Nodelist, you are placing a
PK> limitation on the PUBLIC method of telling people about your system
PK> that can work perfectly well.

PK> A PVT listing tells you its PVT, but it does not list its Phone number
PK> in the Nodelist and yet you may still be able to contact that node if
PK> privately given the number and hours of service.

PK> I don't see why there is a need to penalise IP operations over PSTN in
PK> such a manner.

No penalty involved there. Why would one fly a PVT flag in the
Nodelist and then list a phone number? Same for IP Nodes. Why fly an
IP flag and not list your IP/domain?

I think we're on the same wave here. We just don't know it. :-))

PK> droppped, more and more people moved over to that way of working, its
PK> really just a natural progression.
FV> And as a method of listing Fidonet Nodes in the Nodelist becomes used
FV> more, it will be moved to as well.

PK> When Fidonet started, it NEEDED to create the Nodelist, there was no
PK> common PHONE directory available to look up. With IP, such a directory
PK> already exists (the DNS). If Fidonet ignores that, then you will end

Without listing the IP/domain in the Nodelist, there is little way to
use the DNS except for a default domain like fidonet.net or something
like that.

FV> Telepathy is ok forall I care... as long as it works. :-)
PK> I would need to see DIRECT proof that it works first........;-)
FV> You and me both. (I'm sending you my connection info via telepathy
FV> right now. Did you receive it??) :-))
PK> First prove to me that you sent it, before I confirm if I did receive
PK> it (or not).........;-))

I'm concentrating, dag nab it! <EG>

FV> One Nodelist with a flag that tells the IP mailer that this is an IP
FV> capable Node with a "phone number" of <some.domain> while the pots
FV> mailer will look for a phone number in the "phone"
FV> field and use it if configured to do so seems better to me.
PK> Its this type of mangling that concerns me....;-(
FV> How so?

PK> Well it depends on how you read what you said above. If the DATA for
PK> <some.domain> goes INTO the nodelist, just where are you going to put
PK> it without breaking existing functionality of the Nodelist? Change the
PK> System name or Location fields, and you difuse the functionality of
PK> those fields for all nodes (not just PSTN). Current standards prohibit
PK> using a FLAG for that info, so I don't see how one can keep that info
PK> in the Nodelist without breaking SOMETHING at least.

Create a new standard.

PK> However, if you NOT suggesting to put <some.domain> into the Nodelist,
PK> then the MOST practical place left is the DNS, which is fine with me.

And use some default domain for Fidonet?

PK> I just thought of another possibilty. Fidonet constructs a server that
PK> provides ALL that info from one single point (an online Nodelist???),
PK> allowing Fidonet to retain "control" over its own destiny. Except that
PK> means Fidonet re-invents the wheel by re-creating what already exists,
PK> but that may just keep some people happy........;-)

To do this would require that Fidonet become a "legal" entity. I'm not
sure how that would fly. :/

FV> All that is being done is adding a flag to tell the IP mailer
FV> to look in the DNS record for <IP or domain> or poll a finger daemon
FV> or some such "standard" Internet listing to get the connection
FV> information (IE: protocol-port).
PK> However we don't really need a Finger Daemon, the IBN flag in the
PK> Nodelist is all thats needed to tell people to find BinkP by looking
PK> up the DNS for that node.

And for those that use telnet mailers? or FTP? What about future
protocols and mailers? Do we add flags to no end for them?

PK> Now IF its also necessary to advise people that a different PORT is to
PK> be used, then we have a couple of options, list the PORT in the FLAGS
PK> field, or use SRV type DNS records for this purpose. Personally, I
PK> prefer to use the DNS for this (although I doubt that any Fidonet S/W
PK> currently exists that can use SRV records), because its related more
PK> to DNS than Nodelist type data.

You got me on the technical end there. I'm not a tech person.


Regards,

Frank

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/flv
http://biseonline.com/r19

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