Subj : linked
To   : Frank Vest
From : Peter Knapper
Date : Sun Dec 15 2002 08:51 am

Hi Frank,

FV> If you don't list your IP or domain, you don't fly the IP flag.
PK> You are of course, then saying there is no other possible way to find
PK> out how to contact that node, which of course is not correct....;-)

FV> Not at all. Each Node can set up contacts with each other without the
FV> use of any Nodelist. Even POTS Nodes can do this. :)

Ok, I think I can see where you are heading. Let me re-phrase my statement
slightly. By saying a sysop can't list an IP FLAG if he does not list the his
domain name in the Nodelist, you are placing a limitation on the PUBLIC method
of telling people about your system that can work perfectly well.

A PVT listing tells you its PVT, but it does not list its Phone number in the
Nodelist and yet you may still be able to contact that node if privately given
the number and hours of service.

I don't see why there is a need to penalise IP operations over PSTN in such a
manner.


PK> As the cost
PK> droppped, more and more people moved over to that way of working, its
PK> really just a natural progression.

FV> And as a method of listing Fidonet Nodes in the Nodelist becomes used
FV> more, it will be moved to as well.

When Fidonet started, it NEEDED to create the Nodelist, there was no common
PHONE directory available to look up. With IP, such a directory already exists
(the DNS). If Fidonet ignores that, then you will end up with exactly the
problem we now have, a HUGE section of Fidonet nodes in the Soviet union doing
their own thing because Fidonet is too slow to work out that the DNS is REALLY
what is needed for IP connectivity. Its like trying to force tooth paste back
into the tube........;-)


FV> Telepathy is ok forall I care... as long as it works. :-)
PK> I would need to see DIRECT proof that it works first........;-)

FV> You and me both. (I'm sending you my connection info via telepathy
FV> right now. Did you receive it??) :-))

First prove to me that you sent it, before I confirm if I did receive it (or
not).........;-))


FV> One Nodelist with a flag that tells the IP mailer that this is an IP
FV> capable Node with a "phone number" of <some.domain> while the pots
FV> mailer will look for a phone number in the "phone"
FV> field and use it if configured to do so seems better to me.
PK> Its this type of mangling that concerns me....;-(

FV> How so?

Well it depends on how you read what you said above. If the DATA for
<some.domain> goes INTO the nodelist, just where are you going to put it
without breaking existing functionality of the Nodelist? Change the System name
or Location fields, and you difuse the functionality of those fields for all
nodes (not just PSTN). Current standards prohibit using a FLAG for that info,
so I don't see how one can keep that info in the Nodelist without breaking
SOMETHING at least.

However, if you NOT suggesting to put <some.domain> into the Nodelist, then the
MOST practical place left is the DNS, which is fine with me.

I just thought of another possibilty. Fidonet constructs a server that provides
ALL that info from one single point (an online Nodelist???), allowing Fidonet
to retain "control" over its own destiny. Except that means Fidonet re-invents
the wheel by re-creating what already exists, but that may just keep some
people happy........;-)


FV> All that is being done is adding a flag to tell the IP mailer
FV> to look in the DNS record for <IP or domain> or poll a finger daemon
FV> or some such "standard" Internet listing to get the connection
FV> information (IE: protocol-port).

However we don't really need a Finger Daemon, the IBN flag in the Nodelist is
all thats needed to tell people to find BinkP by looking up the DNS for that
node.

Now IF its also necessary to advise people that a different PORT is to be used,
then we have a couple of options, list the PORT in the FLAGS field, or use SRV
type DNS records for this purpose. Personally, I prefer to use the DNS for this
(although I doubt that any Fidonet S/W currently exists that can use SRV
records), because its related more to DNS than Nodelist type data.

Cheers...........pk.


--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Another Good Point About OS/2 (3:772/1.10)

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