Subj : Dynamic Duo
To : Michiel van der Vlist
From : Dmitry Protasoff
Date : Sat Aug 03 2024 01:37 am
Hello, Michiel!
Thursday August 01 2024 13:53, you wrote to me:
DP>> Glasnost and Perestroyka was a Soviet thing, in late 80s. It was
DP>> long before Putin.
MV> Indeed, long before Putin. But it didn't have to go when the Sovjet
MV> Union was dissolved. If you had voted against Putin when you still
MV> could, Glasnost and Perestroyka might still be here.
Just imagine your salary as an engineer at a nuclear power station is so low at the end of the month that it doesn't even cover your monthly public transport ticket. How much time would you spend worrying about democracy versus how you are going to feed your kids?
That was the reality for many Russians in the '90s. Democracy wasn't really a priority for them.
For my parents, Perestroika was about making our apartment a livable place (more than 12 C during the winter) and not having to stand in line for six hours just to get 1 kg of bananas.
DP>> However, the country was ill-prepared for such a significant
DP>> shift.
MV> No country is ever prepared well for such a shift. Yet other countries
MV> survived. France survived the revolution. The USA survived after they
MV> kicked the Brittish out and they survived a civil war. Italy survived
MV> the fall of the Roman Empire and The Netherlands survived when they
MV> declared independance from the Spanish Kingdom.
How many citizens of the Netherlands chose to die fighting when Nazi Germany occupied your country?
How many of your relatives died fighting Germany?
My great-granddad spent 4 years in Mauthausen. He've seen many people around but no one from Netherlands.
DP>> We lacked people with good economic education
MV> I don't believe that. Russia has produced famous artist and
MV> scientists. Don't try to tell me that there were no economists.
We had the same problem with telecommunications. Not enought experts.
MV> That a small elite sees a transition as an opportunity for personal
MV> gain happens everywhere. What do you think happened during the so
MV> called "Golden Age" in The Netherlands. BTW, during that "Golden Age"
MV> The Netherlands had very good relations with Russia.
I bought a book about your "Golden Age" 10 minutes ago on Amazon. Sorry, I'm not educated enough to discuss this topic YET ;)
MV> When I was 13, I could not buy a modem because modems didn't exist in
MV> 1959. I already had a modem before Fidonet existed. I didn't buy it, I
MV> put it together myself. IIRC that was around 1978.
0 soviet people had modem in 1978. In 1986 I think that about 10 people had modem in ther appartment :)
MV> This wasn't meant as a personal attack. By "you" I meant the plural,
MV> the people who didn't vote against Putin when they still could.
You probably just don't understand: it doesn't matter how people vote. What matters is who is counting their votes.
DP>> In Russia, we had Fidonet as a great example of democracy. Many
DP>> of my friends still talk about democracy as something from the
DP>> Fidonet era! (I'm not joking).
MV> Ha, so there is where it went wrong. You thought Fidonet was a
MV> democracy... That explains a lot... ;-)
Fidonet is a democracy :)
MV> Not much different from The Netherlands when The King was the ultimate
MV> ruler..
It was like.. 200 year ago?
DP>> In reality, it was quite different. We had actual slavery in
DP>> place. The culture may have been the same but it was a culture of
DP>> the elite. The average Russian lived like an African slave with
DP>> no rights, in his own country.
MV> Not much different from how it was in The Netherlands 200 years ago.
So people in Netherlands 200 years ago were slaves??
DP>> Interestingly, I now live in London (for the past 1.5 years,
DP>> since the war started),
MV> So you left the country in the hands of the Putin supporters...
I spend 6 months in the UK and 3 months in Russia
DP>> and there's a pub here where Trotsky, Lenin, and Stalin used to
DP>> drink together.
MV> "used to drink together" That sounds like all three were regulars
MV> there and met once a week or so. Nice story that if a wear a pub owner
MV> would also try to get around in order to lure customers.
http://www.tiredoflondontiredoflife.com/2010/02/drink-in-pub-where-lenin-and-st alin.html
Best regards,
dp.
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* Origin: All is good in St. John's Wood (2:5001/100.1)
