| _______ __ _______ | |
| | | |.---.-..----.| |--..-----..----. | | |.-----..--.--.--..-----. | |
| | || _ || __|| < | -__|| _| | || -__|| | | ||__ --| | |
| |___|___||___._||____||__|__||_____||__| |__|____||_____||________||_____| | |
| on Gopher (inofficial) | |
| Visit Hacker News on the Web | |
| COMMENT PAGE FOR: | |
| Writing a blatant Telegram clone using Qt, QML and Rust. And C++ | |
| Imustaskforhelp wrote 23 hours 9 min ago: | |
| Fascinating. | |
| I am seeing that you are writing a matrix client UI basically which is | |
| nice but I am interested if its possible that you could write it in | |
| (agnostic?) UI way if if it makes sense, where I can swap out any other | |
| protocol instead of matrix too | |
| I was just interested in something similar once and there are other | |
| protocols like session,simplex,signal etc. too which I feel like can | |
| definitely benefit from an unified UI perhaps | |
| Personally I am always interested if any messaging app should just | |
| create a cli application/api and have someone else create the UI since | |
| I feel like the UI bugs and similar can definitely be fixed if its not | |
| in house. | |
| I am curious of your opinion regarding it but the project looks cool! | |
| Personally although I can enjoy telegram's UI, nothing beats cinny's UI | |
| ever. | |
| Cinny has the best UI of any messaging app I have ever seen personally, | |
| there are only very few things I wish to change in that, which can be | |
| changed via userstyle and even recent modern element feels good to me | |
| personally but cinny is brilliant overall | |
| So I am interested to hear what your thoughts are on cinny too | |
| (cinny.in) | |
| adikso wrote 12 hours 24 min ago: | |
| I needed a simple chat UI for a diy "SMS gateway" (for an extra | |
| [nearly free] phone number used only to receive SMS - mainly for | |
| registrations and deliveries) and I ended up using Delta Chat that | |
| uses your email server under the hood. So I implemented all the logic | |
| based on emails... but it would be much better to have some nice | |
| looking UI with easy integration. | |
| prmoustache wrote 21 hours 9 min ago: | |
| Basically pidgin but with telegram's UI. | |
| Imustaskforhelp wrote 12 hours 36 min ago: | |
| Oh yes! I had heard of pidgin but only had people use it for | |
| IRC/XMPP but I didnt know it was an universal chat client. | |
| Yes you are absolutely correct, basically pidgin but with | |
| telegram's UI (or cinny's UI can be good too) but yea, thanks for | |
| pointing out to the resource again! I didnt know it was universal | |
| chat client, thanks for helping me know that. | |
| rw_grim wrote 10 hours 8 min ago: | |
| You could just use libpurple to do all the im stuff and literally | |
| just write a user interface. That said, purple 2 isn't really | |
| designed for modern chat networks, but we're trying to solve that | |
| with the still unreleased purple3. | |
| You may be interested in our State of the Birds which cover | |
| libpurple and pidgin development. | |
| [1]: https://discourse.imfreedom.org/tag/state-of-the-bird | |
| alper wrote 23 hours 40 min ago: | |
| Great work on the 20% of making a working chat app. Now somebody has to | |
| do the remaining 80% and then the other remaining 80%. | |
| yokljo wrote 21 hours 24 min ago: | |
| Thanks. It was just a fun exercise and I had fun writing about it. | |
| solarkraft wrote 1 day ago: | |
| I like this and would like it to continue! FOSS chat UX is, in average, | |
| not good at all in my opinion. I donât need an exact copy of | |
| Telegram, but something with a similar amount of care put into it | |
| (which is a lot!). | |
| > There's currently no Matrix to speak of, but it's the thought that | |
| counts. | |
| Welp! I was going to ask about it. Iâm curious how that goes because | |
| Matrix is the natural thing to support, but Iâve been quite critical | |
| of that being too hard to actually do. The Rust SDK supposedly provides | |
| a lot of support here, so maybe the experience wonât be too bad. Some | |
| inherent protocol stuff may still limit the UX and Iâd love a | |
| thorough writeup on it. | |
| scuff3d wrote 1 day ago: | |
| I think your emoji pop up thing looks better then Telegram's. There's | |
| has way too much animation with all the emoji bouncing around. Yours | |
| was nice and clean. | |
| yokljo wrote 21 hours 27 min ago: | |
| Haha thank you, I was quite pleased with the outcome. It's good, | |
| cause getting the animated emojis working would be pretty involved :P | |
| RustSupremacist wrote 1 day ago: | |
| The GUI situation in Rust is dreadful: [1] Rust is simply not meant for | |
| GUI-based data design but I still want Qt in Rust. That's it. Not QML | |
| or Slint or egui or Tauri or gpui or Iced. No markup at all. None of | |
| the immediate mode things. No double and triple languages like this C++ | |
| mess. Definitely not GTK or the other non-imperative subpar things. | |
| There is one option. Until there is more than one, Qt is the best. No | |
| one else is worried about this missed opportunity. | |
| [1]: https://www.boringcactus.com/2025/04/13/2025-survey-of-rust-gu... | |
| yokljo wrote 21 hours 31 min ago: | |
| I'm the OP, and I have to pitch in here. This comment is a bit | |
| unhinged, basically claiming that every WIP GUI library written in | |
| Rust sucks on principle. This is false, and there are some very good | |
| ongoing efforts that will probably be great and desirable GUI options | |
| in the future. | |
| Also, the comment claims that QML is not Qt. QML was added to Qt in | |
| 2009 and has been where a large proportion of the developer's focus | |
| has been ever since. It is absolutely Qt and you can't claim | |
| otherwise. | |
| A bit of a passionate response to a passionate parent comment. | |
| ahartmetz wrote 1 day ago: | |
| Dreadful may be your opinion, but there is actually much more | |
| approval than disapproval for Slint in that huge overview. | |
| scuff3d wrote 1 day ago: | |
| What about gpui? The Zed teams GUI framework? | |
| Edit: Oh, my bad. I thought they open sourced it separate from Zed. | |
| Looks like they are still tied together. | |
| eviks wrote 1 day ago: | |
| But they did open source it separately? [1] How are they tied? | |
| [1]: https://www.gpui.rs/ | |
| throwaway1389z wrote 1 day ago: | |
| Why does the link try to download a copy of fart from Wikipedia? | |
| sph wrote 20 hours 52 min ago: | |
| View source: | |
| [1]: https://www.boringcactus.com/assets/site.js | |
| IAmLiterallyAB wrote 1 day ago: | |
| Another hackernews hater checking the http referrer I'd guess | |
| p0w3n3d wrote 1 day ago: | |
| That's great work. Thanks for sharing. I was wondering is there a good | |
| way of mixing rust and Qt but I decided that this wouldn't make | |
| sense... But I'm used to generate C++ code from uic, and have little | |
| experience in qml. | |
| yokljo wrote 1 day ago: | |
| Hey, I'm the author of the post. Thanks for reading! Appreciate it :) | |
| I think QML is very easy to get started with and you should just give | |
| it a go. It's not without its weirdness as other comments have | |
| already mentioned, and unfortunately there's still many controls that | |
| are less-than-ideal for desktop applications than their original | |
| QWidget equivalents. Using QWidgets+UIC is nice, but in my experience | |
| creates problems when you want to get fancy and custom with your | |
| design, with animations and shifting layouts and whatnot, well, | |
| especially after using QML. | |
| scrivanodev wrote 1 day ago: | |
| QML is a great language to make GUIs. A few years ago I tried XAML, and | |
| it honestly kind of sucked in comparison (the verbosity alone made it | |
| painful to work with). I haven't tried Slint UI, but supposedly their | |
| DSL is even better since it fully compiles to native Rust code. | |
| IshKebab wrote 1 day ago: | |
| I found QML to be a terrible language for making GUIs. I really tried | |
| with it. But it just felt so hacky and unfinished. A couple of | |
| examples (from like 10 years ago so forgive me if I got some of the | |
| details a bit wrong): | |
| 1. Child components can magically refer to variables in their | |
| parents. This is basic encapsulation 101. The only other language I | |
| know of that allows that is SystemVerilog and that's from an era | |
| where people didn't know better (especially hardware guys). | |
| 2. You can create custom widgets... but they can't display text! | |
| There's a class called something like QmlSceneGraphTextNode that is | |
| the way that all the provided widgets display text but it's private. | |
| I guess they might have fixed this eventually but it stayed private | |
| for the ~5 years I tried to use it. They wanted me to just use Label | |
| widgets in QML land which sucks. | |
| It also felt like there was a pretty huge impedance mismatch between | |
| QML and C++ due to its use of Javascript. E.g. stuff like using | |
| 64-bit integers. That reminds me: | |
| 3. It uses Javascript. | |
| 4. I never found a good way to use dialogs. They seem to push you | |
| towards having all possible dialogs exist all the time and just | |
| showing and hiding them, which is kind of crazy. | |
| I don't think the idea of a GUI DSL is fundamentally bad, but QML is | |
| certainly a pretty miserable implementation. Hopefully the Slint guys | |
| have learned all of these lessons. | |
| silon42 wrote 1 day ago: | |
| 3 makes me not wanna use Qt anymore. | |
| ahartmetz wrote 1 day ago: | |
| It uses JS like the early web did: for little pieces of logic | |
| here and there. It isn't based or structured around, and | |
| certainly not made of, JS. It's fine. I don't like JS neither, | |
| but I do like QML. | |
| Also, feel free to use QtWidgets for desktop apps, it's IMO the | |
| better technology for that unless your data is simple and you | |
| want it to look like a typical touch UI for some reason. | |
| IshKebab wrote 1 day ago: | |
| Fortunately you can still just use QtWidgets. You just don't get | |
| fancy animations. | |
| QuantumNomad_ wrote 1 day ago: | |
| > found out that VS Code was running cargo check one way while in the | |
| terminal cargo check was doing some other thing, and effectively | |
| blowing the cache every time I switched from one to the other | |
| I have a similar problem with JetBrains RustRover. For example when I | |
| do cargo build and cargo clippy in the terminal after RustRover has | |
| done build it seems to start over rebuilding more things than when I | |
| edit something in vim and only use cargo from the terminal. | |
| IshKebab wrote 1 day ago: | |
| Yeah I found the same thing. The issue turned out to be that | |
| something in my `.bashrc` was appending to `PATH` (or some other env | |
| var). Because my `cargo build` commands that were running in one more | |
| level of shell than Rust-analyzer, it had different env vars and | |
| therefore a different cache key. | |
| Once you fix it so that Rust-analyzer sees the same env vars as your | |
| shell then the issue goes away. It's kind of annoyingly hard to debug | |
| though. | |
| LorenDB wrote 1 day ago: | |
| > Qt Creator is actually very good, perhaps unexpectedly so for those | |
| who havenât used it | |
| This. I can't abide VSCode. I instead use Qt Creator for all my C++ | |
| development. | |
| zerr wrote 1 day ago: | |
| No love for KDevelop? :) | |
| spacechild1 wrote 1 day ago: | |
| Fellow QtCreator user here :) | |
| fooker wrote 1 day ago: | |
| Me too. | |
| Until having language specific features really lost to AI auto | |
| complete, and now it's some vscode flavor. | |
| IshKebab wrote 1 day ago: | |
| I agree Qt Creator is really good, and VSCode with the Microsoft C++ | |
| extension is probably not quite as good. | |
| However with the Clangd extension it is much much better. Even better | |
| than Qt Creator. 100% accurate C++ code intelligence, really really | |
| fast error squigglies. Honestly I was kind of surprised it's even | |
| possible to get it that good. | |
| It's not quite on the level of Dart (which is basically instant and | |
| perfect), but I'd say it's on the same level as Rust at least in | |
| terms of responsiveness and reliability. | |
| spacechild1 wrote 1 day ago: | |
| Qt Creator also supports clangd: [1] . Personally, I haven't tried | |
| it yet. | |
| [1]: https://doc.qt.io/qtcreator/creator-preferences-cpp-clangd... | |
| irishcoffee wrote 1 day ago: | |
| Nah, it isnât much much better. Itâs at best the same. | |
| Clangd is clangd. It integrates the same everywhere. | |
| IshKebab wrote 23 hours 58 min ago: | |
| I meant Clangd is better than Qt Creator's native code | |
| intelligence. I haven't used it for years so I didn't know it | |
| integrates Clangd now. | |
| p0w3n3d wrote 1 day ago: | |
| Jetbrains CLion is great for non-Qt C++, albeit paid. It helped me | |
| deliver a bank-exchange-grade connector in a tight schedule with very | |
| little knowledge of C (at that time). Mostly with static checking, | |
| compiling, cmake etc. | |
| spacechild1 wrote 1 day ago: | |
| Just in case anyone has missed the news: since May 2025 CLion is | |
| free for non-commercial use. | |
| p0w3n3d wrote 1 day ago: | |
| I missed it too | |
| However I guess that in the case of Jetbrains this means you get | |
| your code infiltrated and stolen to teach the AI on | |
| irishcoffee wrote 1 day ago: | |
| I would personally use qtcreator over clion (and in fact, I do) for | |
| not qt c/c++ projects. | |
| Itâs just a great ide. Using qt has nothing to do with making it | |
| a better or worse ide. | |
| dev_l1x_be wrote 1 day ago: | |
| It would be great to create a torrent like protocol for chat. People | |
| would host for their own circle of friends with some central hosting | |
| option for non technicals. | |
| pndy wrote 1 day ago: | |
| There were some rather forgotten nowadays projects like Tox, Briar, | |
| Ricochet that should fit what you describe | |
| dev_l1x_be wrote 1 day ago: | |
| Thanks! I was not aware. | |
| tracker1 wrote 1 day ago: | |
| I think a self-hosting option for IM that's better than XMPP could be | |
| nice... that said, not sure if something like torrent would be good. | |
| I gave a lot of thought to something similar for emails, and the | |
| biggest issue came down to, it would be difficult to do something | |
| anonymous, distributed, and resistant to flooding/poison pill | |
| attacks. | |
| Torrents themselves work against this, because you have known hash | |
| values as part of seeding... with email and messaging, you wouldn't | |
| have one-off advanced knowledge, and if anyone can send anyone a | |
| message, you'd be open to a flood of messages from what seems to be | |
| randos. There's some of this from scammers on Telegram and other | |
| social media, but it would be much worse. | |
| A federated system that's otherwise tethered to a domain/email or | |
| similar would at least allow for self-management and/or block listing | |
| techniques to work better in practice. | |
| WD-42 wrote 1 day ago: | |
| So Matrix? | |
| QuantumNomad_ wrote 1 day ago: | |
| > There's some of this from scammers on Telegram and other social | |
| media, but it would be much worse | |
| I get about one scam message per week on Telegram. And the annoying | |
| thing with Telegram is that itâs a paid feature to be able to | |
| make it so that only your contacts can send you messages. | |
| Additionally, in order to block and report the sender, I first have | |
| to open the message, which sends a read receipt to the sender. | |
| Which in turn, if the scammers are smart, is something that they | |
| make note of automatically. | |
| So one can presume that every time I open a scam message to block | |
| and report the sender, as I do, I am also giving the scammers | |
| confirmation that this number is actively in use and my number will | |
| keep being included in lists of numbers that they and others send | |
| scam messages to. | |
| ekjhgkejhgk wrote 1 day ago: | |
| > I believe they have put the most love into their user interfaces out | |
| of all the chat programs I have seen | |
| Absolutely true. | |
| Telegram: Best UI. Signal: Best privacy. WhatsApp: Largest userbase. | |
| It's interesting to think about these three dimensions. I could | |
| theoretically pinpoint everything that make Telegram's UI the best, and | |
| copy it. I could do the same with Signal's privacy. Both of these are | |
| technical problems. There's a process for becoming the best at UI, and | |
| there's a process for becoming the best at privacy. I don't know a | |
| process for becoming the one with the largest userbase. | |
| Other than the 3 big ones, I recently found Jami [1] Good UI, though | |
| not as good as Telegram. Arguably better privacy than Signal - you | |
| don't even need an account if you don't want. Zero userbase. Free | |
| software. | |
| [1]: https://jami.net/ | |
| miki123211 wrote 1 day ago: | |
| Part of "good UI" is not having E2E, which e.g. gives you sync that | |
| actually works, even on new devices, with no weird backups and PIN | |
| codes necessary, just like the good old days. | |
| jeroenhd wrote 19 hours 39 min ago: | |
| E2EE can work just fine with backup and sync. Signal chose not to | |
| do it for a long time and remains cautious, sticking to security | |
| over tolerating security-ignorant users. | |
| WhatsApp is end-to-end encrypted, for instance, and it's used by | |
| billions. It being closed-source changes nothing about its feature | |
| set. | |
| These days, Signal supports (encrypted, even cloud) backups just | |
| like WhatsApp or any other messenger. | |
| The problem with UX for many of these apps is that they're designed | |
| for people who want to be sure that the government can't read their | |
| messages, but that's not something that's possible without | |
| compromising on the ease-of-use of SMS and other insecure methods. | |
| It's foolish to try to shove a Signal-shaped app into a SMS-shaped | |
| hole. I believe Signal's mobile app and (with a better underlying | |
| protocol) Telegram's cross-platform UX offer the best mix of secure | |
| and safe by default. | |
| jcelerier wrote 14 hours 29 min ago: | |
| > WhatsApp is end-to-end encrypted, for instance, and it's used | |
| by billions. | |
| and it causes no end of pain when you switch phones (esp. if you | |
| loose one). | |
| Of all the chat services i use, Telegram is the only one that | |
| NEVER, EVER LOST ANY OF MY MESSAGES. Maybe for some people | |
| privacy is more important ; for me, not loosing any message I | |
| have under absolutely no circumstance is the n°1 baseline | |
| requirement for something to even be called a chat app. | |
| aledue wrote 1 day ago: | |
| Partly, but Signal etc. could just as well have a fast and polished | |
| client, and Telegram a clunky electron sloth. Even if you restrict | |
| yourself to one device (so no syncing) the difference in quality is | |
| undeniable. | |
| jeroenhd wrote 19 hours 33 min ago: | |
| Using Molly to get cross-device Signal support works pretty well, | |
| though the Android-only approach requires Waydroid or a | |
| deprecated Windows feature to run on desktop, unfortunately. | |
| Still, it's a lot better than the alternative (which from | |
| Signal's side seems to be "none, be glad we support desktop sync | |
| at all"). | |
| methuselah_in wrote 1 day ago: | |
| Jami is so useless that never recieved messages after few hours. And | |
| there is no way you can make it work properly for longer duration. | |
| tptacek wrote 1 day ago: | |
| Just bear in mind that Signal's goals are in tension with the other 2 | |
| pole's goals. | |
| scotty79 wrote 1 day ago: | |
| How did we end up with this mess of disjoint chat systems each with | |
| their own userbase? Doesn't it indicate that this market desperately | |
| needs regulation? Would email look the same if it was left to be | |
| invented by the corporations? | |
| Either you provide message interchange with any other message system | |
| operating in a specific country or you can't advertise or sell | |
| anything in this country (also app stores must country wide ban). | |
| Bootstrap by taking two largest chats and offering them provisional | |
| access to the market for few months. If they can provide interchange | |
| between them they can remain and others can follow. If not bigest one | |
| is out, let's say for two years and the third one (pre-ban) tries to | |
| establish interchange with the remaining of the two biggest. | |
| JuniperMesos wrote 16 min ago: | |
| > How did we end up with this mess of disjoint chat systems each | |
| with their own userbase? Doesn't it indicate that this market | |
| desperately needs regulation? | |
| Why do you assume that the regulation that would actually get | |
| passed by the actual government would result in effective chat | |
| interchange between different protocols, and not just entrench some | |
| existing platform while making it technically illegal for another | |
| organization to try to compete with them? | |
| > Either you provide message interchange with any other message | |
| system operating in a specific country or you can't advertise or | |
| sell anything in this country (also app stores must country wide | |
| ban). | |
| Would this make it technically illegal for me to use F-Droid to | |
| install an open-source implementation of a novel chat protocol that | |
| doesn't support interchange with existing chat platforms yet? Does | |
| this make it possible for me to force existing chat platforms to be | |
| suddenly illegal by releasing a novel open-source chat protocol | |
| without coordinating it with those platforms? | |
| > Would email look the same if it was left to be invented by the | |
| corporations? | |
| Probably not, but email is a heavily-flawed protocol, so I'm not | |
| sure that's a good thing. Also, although email was invented in the | |
| 1970s, making it one of the oldest internet protocols still used, | |
| it's been extended over the years, and I'm sure at least some of | |
| those extensions were developed by various for-profit companies | |
| (perhaps ones which no longer exist). | |
| bruce511 wrote 1 day ago: | |
| This is going to be a terribly cynical comment, but I've noticed a | |
| trend here on HN to introduce laws to fix problems. | |
| The short version is that, no, you can't law yourself out of this | |
| (or pretty much anything. ) | |
| Firstly, laws have national jurisdiction. There are no "all the | |
| countries agreed to this" laws. | |
| Secondly, the US can't actually pass any laws anyway. Congress is | |
| deadlocked. It can't even get around to killing daylight saving | |
| clock changes (which passed the senate with unanimous support.) | |
| Plus any laws (or, more recently executive orders) just end up in | |
| court forever. And when passed may, or may not, be enforced (or | |
| enforceable. ) | |
| And that's before I point out that big tech buys (sorry, "lobbies") | |
| govt in the first place. Apple, Meta, Google would all pay to make | |
| this bill go away. | |
| Lastly, everyone seems to forget that interoperability leads to | |
| spam. Email is open and completely flooded. SMS is open and | |
| basically unusable. Whatsapp grew their user base in part because | |
| the experience was spam free. So even if laws declaring openness | |
| were proposed they would be far from universally supported. | |
| cosmic_cheese wrote 1 day ago: | |
| Telegram is also the best at first class support of all the platforms | |
| it runs on. In addition to the Qt-based app that's popular on Windows | |
| and Linux, the predominant client on macOS/iOS is AppKit/UIKit-based, | |
| and there exist numerous other native clients (such as UWP/WinAppSDK | |
| on Windows, GTK on Linux, and CLI for anything with a command line). | |
| In comparison everything else puts reasonable effort into the mobile | |
| clients and phones in the rest with bloated, half-baked web apps or | |
| if you're lucky an iOS Catalyst port. | |
| Along with UI/UX quality, this stuff matters and impacts adoption, | |
| even if most users can't put their reasoning into words. | |
| PunchyHamster wrote 1 day ago: | |
| I shudder to think about calling Telegram UI "good". Maybe chats like | |
| Discord spoiled me but both of those feel like way below level of | |
| "comfort" for communication longer than "asking about what food you | |
| want", especially when talking about code or other stuff that | |
| benefits from more richer formatting. | |
| Both look ass at desktop too, way too many wasted space, tho Telegram | |
| at least doesn't stretch the chat on the entire width of monitor when | |
| in fullscreen, having to go from far left to far right just to read | |
| the chat | |
| sznio wrote 20 hours 20 min ago: | |
| >Maybe chats like Discord spoiled me | |
| Discord UI is abysmal, especially on mobile. Every time I start it | |
| I shudder, stare at a stuttering UI that takes way too long to | |
| become responsive. It feels like it will make my phone explode. | |
| bluecalm wrote 1 day ago: | |
| We are comparing it to WhatsApp that lags (very significantly) on | |
| keyboard input and doesn't even have a way to paste code. | |
| mananaysiempre wrote 1 day ago: | |
| > especially when talking about code or other stuff that benefits | |
| from more richer formatting | |
| Telegram has GFM-style fenced code blocks including language | |
| indication for syntax highlighting (e.g. ```python), what else | |
| could one want for code? (I guess syntax-highlighted inline | |
| monospaced blocks, it does indeed not have them.) | |
| I wouldnât say Telegram is perfect. The polish and the actual | |
| experience of using it are great. Yet when you look closely, itâs | |
| as rickety as youâd expect given the insane rate of shipping | |
| features that theyâve sustained until quite recently. (For | |
| instance, there were a few weeks where porn spambots in public | |
| chats would post singleâthus animatedâemoji, seemingly because | |
| the UI didnât allow you to open the context menu on those in | |
| order to report spam, because the usual single-tap handler for that | |
| was overriden by the handler that would play the emoji animation.) | |
| And the discoverability is in the toilet. Did you know that you can | |
| preview a chat without marking its messages read by long-pressing | |
| on the image? That works on Androidâexcept on a tablet where your | |
| screen is large enough that you get the two-pane view; I thought | |
| for weeks they had removed that feature until I realized the tablet | |
| was the problem. And the only thing that mentions its existence is | |
| AFAIK an item in release notes from 2018[1,2]. Did you know that | |
| you could pop out individual chats into their own AIM/ICQ-style | |
| windows on desktop? I donât think itâs documented anywhere, but | |
| itâs in the context menu. | |
| If it were the 2000s I wouldnât have given Telegram any HCI | |
| design awards. But everything else is considerably worse, with the | |
| possible exception of (indeed) Discord. (I prefer Telegramâs | |
| abundant tools for scrubbing through history though, itâs one of | |
| the few things in that category thatâs actually better a calendar | |
| of posts like blogs used to have.) [1] (it didnât even make the | |
| headline!) [2] Just found out (via the comments in [2] ) that this | |
| actually exists on desktop too: Alt-click the chat. Argh. | |
| [1]: https://telegram.org/blog/unread-replace-2x#and-three-more... | |
| [2]: https://bugs.telegram.org/c/52 | |
| AdrenalinMd wrote 1 day ago: | |
| > Telegram: Best UI | |
| Hard no. Have you tried activating encryption in personal chats? | |
| QuantumNomad_ wrote 1 day ago: | |
| I tried Jami for a bit with a friend. For both me and my friend, Jami | |
| was very unreliable about delivering notifications about new | |
| messages. So my friend would send me a message but because I didnât | |
| get any notification about the message it would go days before I | |
| opened the app and saw that he had said something, and Iâd respond | |
| to it and it would be days before he would happen to open the app | |
| again because he also didnât get any notification. | |
| immibis wrote 1 day ago: | |
| This is sadly a ubiquitous problem with FOSS phone software. | |
| Google's and Apple's notification systems are anti-FOSS. You can | |
| use your own on Google phones, but then your app will have to wake | |
| up periodically to check it, and the system will detect your app as | |
| a battery waster, tell the user your app is a battery waster, and | |
| automatically prevent your app waking up to prevent battery waste. | |
| And on Apple I believe you simply can't do that because they user | |
| has to open the app to wake it. | |
| 01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote 1 day ago: | |
| On Android you can use UnifiedPush so just one app gets | |
| background permissions and it wakes everything else up. Chat apps | |
| are starting to support it | |
| scotty79 wrote 1 day ago: | |
| Not just FOSS. Many corporate apps have exactly the same problems | |
| with notification delivery. Those systems barely work. | |
| ekjhgkejhgk wrote 1 day ago: | |
| I never had that experience because I never found another person | |
| with Jami. | |
| johannes1234321 wrote 1 day ago: | |
| > I don't know a process for becoming the one with the largest | |
| userbase. | |
| Easy: Be at the right spot in the right time and be lucky to be | |
| noticed. | |
| WhatsApp had one smart idea: tying accounts to phone number, which | |
| solved detectability, while SMS where expensive in many regions. When | |
| ICQ/AIM still missed the mobile market and before Apple made | |
| iMessage. | |
| Easy to replicate, as we can see with Facebook messenger or Google's | |
| different attempts, who invested quite a few resources into that. | |
| tcfhgj wrote 1 day ago: | |
| does Jami store messages server side like Telegram to enable access | |
| to messages everywhere? | |
| ekjhgkejhgk wrote 1 day ago: | |
| They all store messages server side. | |
| prmoustache wrote 21 hours 11 min ago: | |
| jami doesn't store message on a server, at least not in 1:1 | |
| connection. It is one of the Achille heel in the sense that if | |
| you send a message, your recipient is offline, then you go | |
| offline before your recipient goes online the message will not | |
| have been delivered and will wait until both are online at the | |
| same time. It is particularly annoying because most android | |
| firmware + iphone kill the app when it is in the background so | |
| that people tend to think it is the app that is not working well | |
| whereas it is really the operating system that aggressively kill | |
| it and prevent it from working well. | |
| A workaround for the messages not being received is to have an | |
| opened session on the desktop version running 24/7 at home. | |
| I read that group chats (swarm) are implemented using git and I | |
| think the changes are pushed between clients directly. Again it | |
| is nice if you have a permanent group to have at least one client | |
| running 24/7 | |
| jatins wrote 1 day ago: | |
| Not whatsapp afaik | |
| ekjhgkejhgk wrote 1 day ago: | |
| - Send a message to someone whose phone is off | |
| - turn off your phone | |
| - get that person to turn their phone on | |
| - they receive the message. | |
| Where was it stored, if not in WhatsApps servers? | |
| tcfhgj wrote 1 day ago: | |
| Well, not exactly what I meant. | |
| Burn your phone, setup a new phone, log in, view your | |
| messages was what I meant. | |
| toyg wrote 1 hour 59 min ago: | |
| .... That also works? Unless you believe that your entire | |
| chat history is magically encoded in a QR code... | |
| fooker wrote 1 day ago: | |
| Whatsapp backs up unencrypted messages to Google cloud on | |
| Android and whatever it's called for Apple. | |
| The government can just ask them to turn over those. (note that | |
| this is legally very different from forcing someone to unlock a | |
| device) | |
| __jonas wrote 1 day ago: | |
| It does not just do that, no. | |
| It has the option of doing that, it asks you if you want to | |
| enable the backups. | |
| It also allows you to encrypt the backups with a passkey or a | |
| password that you can manually set, client-side. | |
| It didnât always have the encryption option I think. | |
| toast0 wrote 1 day ago: | |
| > I don't know a process for becoming the one with the largest | |
| userbase. | |
| I was at WhatsApp from 2014 - 2019. Growing a large userbase from | |
| scratch doesn't happen by any one factor. You have to do a lot of | |
| things well. (and probably get lucky) | |
| a) potential users need a compelling reason to join. Messaging at | |
| data rates was significant, but not in the US were many people had | |
| large messaging allowances. Works better than SMS/MMS was compelling | |
| for some. | |
| b) existing users need to be satisfied enough to stay: service has to | |
| work consistently, client has to work, etc. | |
| c) signup flow needs to work well. Doesn't matter if people want to | |
| use the app if they can't. You need to help users understand their | |
| phone number (or other identification). You need multiple methods of | |
| verification, because SMS doesn't always work. Giving someone a | |
| several digit code over the phone is a cognitive task for the user, | |
| and it's harder with disjointed speech generation, so you need to | |
| spend some time on that too. You need multiple providers because if | |
| you can't get verification codes to users, some of those people will | |
| give up and never come back. Since you have multiple providers, you | |
| need to figure out how to pick one based on current conditions which | |
| you also need to figure out how to track. Also --- you need some | |
| money, sending all these codes gets expensive. Phone numbers as ids | |
| is a blessing because "everyone has one" and you can use the system | |
| address book for contacts, but verification costs add up; usernames | |
| or email as id make contact discovery messy and a surprising amount | |
| of people in the developing world don't have an email address or | |
| don't know what it is. | |
| d) users get new phones, a lot, you need to make it easy to move | |
| their account. Or they will likely drop your service when they get a | |
| new phone. | |
| e) you need to be prepared for and handle large events. If some big | |
| news happens, people will want to talk about it. If some similar | |
| service has an outage, you will get more traffic --- if you also fall | |
| over, that's a lost opportunity. | |
| f) things need to work well on the devices people actually have. | |
| Which might not be the ones you would prefer to use. Worldwide, most | |
| people don't have flagship phones. If you want a large number of | |
| users, having good experiences only on recent flagships is self | |
| limiting. Working well (or at least better than alternatives) on low | |
| end and older devices is a path towards addressing users that others | |
| miss. | |
| There's probably more. Most of these require sustained consistent | |
| effort to deliver. It's not a one time thing. And it's not quick. | |
| Sustained consistent effort is easy enough as a one product start-up, | |
| but it's very hard as a big-corp. | |
| Userbase can be a positive feedback loop: once you have enough users, | |
| that becomes its own reason to join ... and having no one to talk to | |
| is a reason to leave. There's not really a way to jump start it, | |
| unless you've already got a large user base somewhere else that you | |
| can use to seed your service. | |
| 4gotunameagain wrote 22 hours 14 min ago: | |
| Of all the things you listed, which are surely important, you also | |
| said the single most important factor in the end: | |
| > once you have enough users, that becomes its own reason to join. | |
| There's not really a way to jump start it | |
| So, a monopoly that was lucky enough to be the first one to solve | |
| some (minor, if I may) technical problems. | |
| We need forced interoperability. Facebook has no right to control | |
| the communications of so many billions of people, just because | |
| Whatsapp got lucky and then facebook acquired them. | |
| Who knows how much data they harvest. | |
| igouy wrote 1 day ago: | |
| > things need to work well on the devices people actually have | |
| Until 2025, WhatsApp was even on KaiOS | |
| ekjhgkejhgk wrote 1 day ago: | |
| That's great, thank you. | |
| koakuma-chan wrote 1 day ago: | |
| "Telegram: Best UI" | |
| [1]: https://i.imgur.com/YDaP5EH.gif | |
| ekjhgkejhgk wrote 1 day ago: | |
| I see "content not viewable in your region". Did I miss the joke or | |
| something? I never had that experience in Telegram. | |
| koakuma-chan wrote 1 day ago: | |
| Are you in the UK? Here, hopefully Cloudflare isn't blocked for | |
| you | |
| [1]: https://pub-aff931c6a6424ddbaff3eccef55f4ae1.r2.dev/IMG_... | |
| ekjhgkejhgk wrote 1 day ago: | |
| Guys, can you make an eggplant that cums. I don't get it. | |
| mananaysiempre wrote 1 day ago: | |
| In one of the early releases of animated emoji on Telegram (I | |
| want to say the very first one), it did. Then Apple objected | |
| and it stopped. Then shortly afterwards like half of the rest | |
| started doing something suggestive but not the eggplant. A | |
| lot of fun was had on the Internet imagining the product | |
| meetings for all of that. | |
| (Not that any of it is particularly relevant to the quality | |
| of Telegramâs UI, which is indeed unmatched.) | |
| koakuma-chan wrote 1 day ago: | |
| Basically, Telegram used to have eggplant sticker that cums, | |
| until Apple forced them to remove it. They also had a peach | |
| sticker that looked like ass. Thus, I am making this joke | |
| about Telegram having best UI. | |
| In this meme, Durov, the Telegram founder, says "Colleagues, | |
| greetings. Who can make it, so that eggplant cums? Added a | |
| task to Notion." Then "employee" sends a cumming eggplant | |
| sticker, and Durov replies "This is what I wanted." | |
| <- back to front page |