_______ __ _______ | |
| | |.---.-..----.| |--..-----..----. | | |.-----..--.--.--..-----. | |
| || _ || __|| < | -__|| _| | || -__|| | | ||__ --| | |
|___|___||___._||____||__|__||_____||__| |__|____||_____||________||_____| | |
on Gopher (inofficial) | |
Visit Hacker News on the Web | |
COMMENT PAGE FOR: | |
Show HN: The current sky at your approximate location, as a CSS gradient | |
jama211 wrote 9 hours 4 min ago: | |
This would be cool on a fake window for your house, like a screen in a | |
basement | |
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote 13 hours 38 min ago: | |
My sky is blue and orange right now though and your site shows black. | |
chrz wrote 15 hours 45 min ago: | |
Fully black web page for me here. Well its correct | |
CodeVerseEx wrote 21 hours 20 min ago: | |
Very cool concept. Would be great if thereâs an option to tweak the | |
gradient before copying, so devs can match it exactly to their design | |
needs. | |
leokennis wrote 1 day ago: | |
Should anyone appreciate it, this Shortcut for your iOS/iPadOS device | |
will set your wallpaper to the current sky based on this nice tool: [1] | |
Just make sure that your last (or only) iDevice Home Screen is set to | |
type âimageâ. | |
[1]: https://www.icloud.com/shortcuts/c8ba254a0272453cbe39357b144d0... | |
Biganon wrote 1 day ago: | |
Not often does a project make me think "adorable", and it's a | |
compliment. Just lovely. | |
fastasucan wrote 1 day ago: | |
This might be a stupid question, but is it the background of [1] that | |
shows the current sky? I am a bit confused since neither the post or | |
the github repo says so outright. | |
Edit: I think its this link: [2] OP - put it in the HN post and first | |
on your github repo! Good work. | |
[1]: https://html.energy/html-day/2025/index.html | |
[2]: https://sky.dlazaro.ca/ | |
tcumulus wrote 1 day ago: | |
Very cool! Might be interesting to combine this with cloud data or | |
sunset forecast data from Sunsethue to create some sort of sky/sunset | |
simulation. Well done! | |
mcintyre1994 wrote 1 day ago: | |
This is really cool! And from skimming your code, TIL about Math.hypot! | |
jama211 wrote 1 day ago: | |
Ok this is incredible, it was exactly right, I did a double take! | |
kylegalbraith wrote 1 day ago: | |
Tid bits like this are why HN is still the best corner of the internet | |
most of the time. | |
This is really cool. Iâll probably see if I can make it my new tab | |
background in Chromium. | |
natewww wrote 1 day ago: | |
that is really cool, thanks for sharing | |
ComputerGuru wrote 1 day ago: | |
Ahhh youâre not taking light pollution into account! | |
dddgghhbbfblk wrote 1 day ago: | |
I'll have to check this out tomorrow. I can tell you that black is not | |
very accurate for my current conditions (midnight in Manhattan) but | |
curious to see how it does in the day! | |
lazystar wrote 1 day ago: | |
sunsetting in the monroe, wa area. only a month left to live out here, | |
gonna miss it dearly | |
meatjuice wrote 1 day ago: | |
This project looks amazing and fun. However, the website did not seem | |
to take the cloudy weather at my current location into account, which | |
is a bit of a disappointment. | |
jclarkcom wrote 1 day ago: | |
Very cool. We are launching a sensor that mounts on the inside of your | |
window and measure the sky color for a small cone of the sky and | |
transmits this to our skylight and window fixtures inside (see | |
innerscene.com) so they can replicate exactly the same thing indoors. | |
You could potentially use a computer monitor to do this, but it | |
generally doesn't provide great light due to using RGBs instead of | |
wide-spectrum sources. | |
One issue with the current code is it doesnât model clouds, haze, or | |
smoke so the rendered sky can differ from what you see outside | |
(numerous HN comments notice this). You can partially correct for this | |
by using semi-realtime satellite imaging but hard to get super accurate | |
which is what pushed us to develop our own sensor. There are various | |
CCT sensors on the market already but they only measure | |
directional+diffuse+reflected light which is typically ~7500k but the | |
sky color goes up to 40,000k. | |
Here is a plot showing the color of the sky as it changes during the | |
day from real sensor readings. Each one is 30s apart, so it change | |
change quickly. [1] A bit more info as well: | |
[1]: https://www.innerscene.com/built_pages/cs_specsheet/cct/cct_me... | |
[2]: https://www.innerscene.com/SpecHelp/CircadianSky/cct/cct.html | |
jaharios wrote 1 day ago: | |
I refreshed the page, enabled js, refreshed again and again and finally | |
I gave up thinking it is not loading because it was hugged to death. | |
While reading the comments here it dawned on me that it was just a | |
black background because it is night outside and the paged worked fine | |
from the start... | |
ryukoposting wrote 1 day ago: | |
Would be cool if it considered current weather conditions. The sky is | |
presently much grayer than what the site showed me. | |
j45 wrote 1 day ago: | |
Neat tool, would love to be able to set the location when the | |
registered IP location isnât accurate. | |
joeyh wrote 1 day ago: | |
This reminds of of a web page that did this for Ithaca NY circa 1995. | |
The page was a static hardcoded shade of grey. | |
mgdm wrote 1 day ago: | |
I have been meaning to do it for ages! I got as far as finding a paper | |
on the topic and reading it and then forgetting all about it. Nice | |
work. | |
dehugger wrote 1 day ago: | |
Is this all done server side? I was shocked to inspect the page to | |
discover zero js or even a stylesheet. Not so much as a single div. | |
Very impressive. | |
verelo wrote 1 day ago: | |
Feels like this would be great for fake skylights⦠| |
sudosteph wrote 1 day ago: | |
Looks pretty Carolina blue to me. Good job. | |
cloudfudge wrote 1 day ago: | |
As an old-timer who's not up on all the latest whiz-bang web stuff, I | |
have to ask what is the astro/cloudflare/wrangler magic that allows the | |
following to work: | |
const { latitude = "0", longitude = "0" } = Astro.locals.runtime.cf | |
|| {}; | |
I gather you're using some cloudflare feature wrapped in astro to | |
provide lat/long but I don't see the actual plumbing that gets it to | |
you (and I did try to spelunk through a decent amount of documentation | |
to find it). Can you elaborate? | |
dlazaro wrote 1 day ago: | |
There is no visible plumbing because it kinda is magic! Astro | |
provides adapters for different server runtimes (e.g., Vercel, | |
Cloudflare, Netlify), and it's basically just plug and play. The | |
Cloudflare adapter exposes a bunch of bindings [1] through | |
`Astro.locals.runtime`, which can be accessed during each request. | |
The `cf` binding contains incoming request properties [2], including | |
latitude and longitude. | |
These bindings (or at least some of them) are also mocked when | |
developing locally, in a non-Cloudflare-Workers environment. [1] | |
[1]: https://developers.cloudflare.com/workers/wrangler/api/#supp... | |
[2]: https://developers.cloudflare.com/workers/runtime-apis/reque... | |
Theodores wrote 21 hours 24 min ago: | |
Any ideas on how to do this without the Cloud flare magic, so | |
entirely in the client? | |
Just based on time will suffice, with latitude approximated to | |
somewhere such as London? | |
cloudfudge wrote 1 day ago: | |
Great explanation; thanks. | |
gregsadetsky wrote 1 day ago: | |
You can enable a feature in Cloudflare which will inject the | |
approximate user's lat/lng (based on their IP (and other factors?)) | |
as an HTTP header added to the original request: [1] "This Managed | |
Transform adds HTTP request headers with location information for the | |
visitor's IP address, such as city, country, continent, longitude, | |
and latitude." | |
[1]: https://developers.cloudflare.com/network/ip-geolocation/ | |
tinco wrote 1 day ago: | |
21pm in The Netherlands, the sky is a clear blue down to a baby pink | |
right now, however the app shows a black to dark red. Other people are | |
saying it matches exactly for their location so maybe there's some sort | |
of bug? | |
croisillon wrote 1 day ago: | |
during the day it was good here, now that it is night it's a bit off | |
for me too | |
cwmoore wrote 1 day ago: | |
I like this, but Iâm newly concerned about the unitary horizon. | |
yonatan8070 wrote 1 day ago: | |
Very cool, though I opened it at night so it's just black. Is there a | |
way to adjust the time it renders to see what it would look like at | |
different times? | |
fmbb wrote 1 day ago: | |
Itâs way too dark for this time of year at this time of day here at | |
60 degrees north. | |
But it looked very cool earlier today when it matched! | |
therealfiona wrote 1 day ago: | |
Works in Hawaii. | |
cwmoore wrote 1 day ago: | |
Even at sunrise? | |
sheerun wrote 1 day ago: | |
Bit darker blues, please! | |
mourner wrote 1 day ago: | |
Author of Suncalc here â this is exactly the kind of stuff I love to | |
see my code being used in, thanks for sharing! | |
gregsadetsky wrote 1 day ago: | |
Hey, small note that your excellent [1] is showing an error due to | |
the Google Maps API token having expired. | |
I know that you deeply know map tech :-) but if I may make a | |
suggestion - you might consider switching from Google Maps to | |
Protomaps? [2] Cheers | |
[1]: https://suncalc.net/ | |
[2]: https://github.com/protomaps/protomaps-leaflet | |
mourner wrote 1 day ago: | |
Yeah, I think I last updated that website even before I released | |
the first version of Leaflet. Life is very hectic at the moment, | |
but I do really want to get to it sooner than later and modernize | |
everything. | |
sheerun wrote 1 day ago: | |
Author or contributor? Great work, by the way, I love such shows | |
mourner wrote 1 day ago: | |
Wrote it 14 years ago! [1] It's a bit neglected but I'll do some | |
upkeep shortly... | |
[1]: https://github.com/mourner/suncalc/ | |
card_zero wrote 1 day ago: | |
Useful, saves me looking at the thing. | |
michelreij wrote 1 day ago: | |
Beautiful, thank you! | |
SeanAnderson wrote 1 day ago: | |
Oh nice, this is actually something I very specifically wanted for [1] | |
! I was trying to have the background sky for the ant farm be | |
reflective of the user's current environment, but I didn't do anything | |
more than a naïve approach. Maybe I'll work on adopting your approach | |
at some point :) Still a bit torn on if the whole thing should be | |
Rust/WASM or just the core simulation in Rust and defer as much as | |
possible to JS/HTML. | |
[1]: https://ant.care/ | |
cgijoe wrote 1 day ago: | |
Ooh, how about this as a live desktop wallpaper! | |
rafinha wrote 1 day ago: | |
Same! | |
cosmicgadget wrote 1 day ago: | |
That is awesome but now I want to check what my SF bros see when they | |
look up. | |
DonHopkins wrote 1 day ago: | |
Why doesn't it respect dark mode??? ;) | |
8n4vidtmkvmk wrote 1 day ago: | |
Wait a few hours | |
mushufasa wrote 1 day ago: | |
would love this to be a desktop background -- linux or macOS | |
Leftium wrote 1 day ago: | |
I use a built-in MacOS wallpaper called Solar Gradients[1] | |
It looks very similar! | |
[1] | |
[1]: https://youtu.be/0mf8YaWN5qE?t=1m21s | |
nathandaly wrote 1 day ago: | |
I just did some googling and found at least one app to do exactly | |
this on Android. This is now my phone background!! | |
(I used this, but it does leave a small "please purchase" banner at | |
the top, until you pay: [1] ) | |
[1]: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.nuko.livew... | |
xattt wrote 1 day ago: | |
This would be an awesome background for a smart home dash! | |
fudged71 wrote 1 day ago: | |
It would be awesome for a fake window in a basement | |
101008 wrote 1 day ago: | |
Put my phone against the window and I had to call over my wife to come | |
to check it: it matches 100% (clear sky right now). It's amazing, | |
congratulations | |
esafak wrote 1 day ago: | |
More sophisticated than I expected. It relies on a research paper: | |
[1]: https://github.com/ebruneton/precomputed_atmospheric_scatterin... | |
gdubs wrote 1 day ago: | |
Well, that's delightful. Works really well here in the Pacific | |
Northwest :) | |
jhardy54 wrote 1 day ago: | |
Super neat. Looking forward to checking out your implementation and | |
learning about this! | |
djoldman wrote 1 day ago: | |
@dlazaro, I believe that style={{backgroundColor: bottom}} is not | |
needed in: | |
is not needed. | |
dlazaro wrote 1 day ago: | |
I actually included that so the tab and status bars are themed on | |
iOS/Safari. Here's someone else's writeup on that: | |
[1]: https://medium.com/@evkirkiles/coloring-the-webkit-browser-b... | |
doughecka wrote 1 day ago: | |
Wow, this works in chrome on Android as well | |
djoldman wrote 1 day ago: | |
Today I learned! Thanks | |
peterldowns wrote 1 day ago: | |
That's a cool thing to know, thanks for sharing. Great job on the | |
sky site! | |
i_love_retros wrote 1 day ago: | |
Curious why a celebration of HTML needed a full stack javascript | |
framework? | |
ascorbic wrote 1 day ago: | |
Astro is a great way to write HTML | |
dlazaro wrote 1 day ago: | |
I'm sure that's your totally unbiased opinion ;) | |
ascorbic wrote 1 day ago: | |
I was a fan of Astro long before I became a maintainer. That's | |
why I joined! | |
dlazaro wrote 1 day ago: | |
A server is needed to calculate the sun's position from latitude + | |
longitude + time, and then render the gradient. I could use HTML | |
templating in some other language/framework, but I used Astro because | |
that's what I'm familiar with and it's very easy to deploy to | |
Cloudflare Pages. | |
nnnnico wrote 1 day ago: | |
it's beautiful. btw, could this be all done in client side js? | |
didnt look at the implementation, probably server is used to | |
resolve location? | |
wonger_ wrote 1 day ago: | |
(not author) from the source: | |
const { latitude = "0", longitude = "0" } = | |
Astro.locals.runtime.cf || {}; | |
To do it client-side, you would probably have to call some | |
less-reputable IP geolocation service, or settle for | |
navigator.geolocation which has a permission popup | |
mcteamster wrote 1 day ago: | |
Depending on how "approximate" is acceptable, I've found that | |
using timezone names can be a good proxy for location. As most | |
users have their timezones set correctly it's more consistent | |
and private than IP or GPS. | |
I've made a library for my own use cases that does this ( [1] | |
), but it's also pretty straightforward to parse the city/state | |
name out of the timezone and look it up somewhere. | |
[1]: https://github.com/mcteamster/virgo | |
mlhpdx wrote 1 day ago: | |
Which direction am I looking? Deeper blue to the north. | |
dlazaro wrote 1 day ago: | |
It's always facing the sun (although it doesn't include the sun | |
itself). | |
nhinck3 wrote 1 day ago: | |
Opened this up and sat there for a good 20 seconds waiting for | |
something to happen... only to remember it's midnight here. | |
socalgal2 wrote 1 day ago: | |
Suggestion for the author, I don't think there are any outdoor places | |
where the sky is black. I don't know that gray would be any better. | |
Stars? Some night clouds? or maybe even still a gradient? | |
[1]: https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=58e7983bf9f21fcd&udm=2... | |
dlazaro wrote 1 day ago: | |
Maybe someone smarter than me could add stars to the night sky, so | |
it's not just black. | |
nativeit wrote 1 day ago: | |
I was just thinking about how to slice up a star map projection, | |
and apply it as an overlay. I donât do such things often enough | |
to do it quickly, although I can imagine how it could be achieved. | |
Iâd imagine someone working in game dev probably could whip up a | |
mechanism for applying coordinates to a star map fairly quickly, | |
but realizing it in pure CSS would probably require exporting all | |
the slices to a folder as SVG squares that are labeled with | |
coordinates, and then using a bit of JS to stitch it all together | |
in the rendered page. | |
mpetroff wrote 1 day ago: | |
I wrote a simple web-based night sky viewer a while ago [1], | |
which renders the 750 brightest stars from coordinates in a data | |
file (along with the moon). It uses D3.js to do fully client-side | |
SVG-based rendering for interactive use, but it could be | |
simplified to render server side to an SVG file. I think the main | |
complication is that by adding stars, a projection needs to be | |
decided on, and you'd need to consider the aspect ratio of the | |
browser window. | |
[1]: https://github.com/mpetroff/nightsky | |
nisten wrote 1 day ago: | |
i put my laptop next to the window and it was spot on wtf | |
what got me the most is opening chrome dev tools and seeing nothing | |
there | |
ianbicking wrote 1 day ago: | |
I'm around so much wildfire smoke lately that my sky expectations have | |
changed... | |
I wonder what it would take to account for weather? | |
craftkiller wrote 1 day ago: | |
That'd be a pretty large introduction of a dependency. The sky can be | |
calculated with just lat/lon and the current date+time. Adding in | |
weather would mean querying some external weather service. | |
ryandrake wrote 1 day ago: | |
Awesome. I remember much earlier in my career I was working on a 3D | |
turn-by-turn navigation software, and one of my tasks was to draw the | |
sky in the background. The more senior guy on the team said, just draw | |
a blue rectangle during the day and a dark gray one at night and call | |
it job done. Of course, I had to do it the hard way, so I looked up the | |
relevant literature on sky rendering based on the environment, | |
latitude, longitude, time of day and so on, which at the time was | |
Preetham[1] ("A Practical Analytic Model for Daylight"), and built a | |
fully realistic sky model for the software. I even added prominent | |
stars based on a hard-coded ephemeris table. It was quite fast, too. | |
Well, the higher ups of course hated it, they were confused as to why | |
the horizon would get hazy, yellowish, and so on. "Our competitors' | |
skies are blue!" They didn't like "Use your eyes and look outside" as | |
an answer. | |
Eventually, I was told to scrap it and just draw a blue rectangle :( | |
All that to say, nice job on the site! | |
1: | |
[1]: https://courses.cs.duke.edu/cps124/fall01/resources/p91-preeth... | |
nkrisc wrote 19 hours 25 min ago: | |
That sounds really cool but I have to reluctantly agree with the | |
senior: a cartoonish day/night sky is better than a half-implemented | |
realistic one. I say âhalf-implementedâ because it sounds as | |
though yours didnât account for local weather and cloud cover, | |
which is reasonable but then incomplete. Even if you did, well, | |
itâs turn-by-turn navigation. I expect the sky color to be selected | |
for ideal contrast with the important UI elements to reduce the time | |
spent looking at it while driving. | |
GuardianCaveman wrote 21 hours 36 min ago: | |
I identify so much with your sentiment and this type of overthinking | |
overbuilding . | |
maddmann wrote 1 day ago: | |
Haha it sounds you applied the opposite of the YAGNI principle | |
building this. | |
bravesoul2 wrote 1 day ago: | |
The thing here is programming the job can be much more dull than | |
programming the hobby. Occasionally (twice a decade) there can be a | |
collision where you get to do something really cool like that at | |
work. The higher ups want a realistic sky because their market | |
research said it'll boost an OKR by 10 basis points. And then you are | |
in luck! | |
That said there are niches where jobs let you do cool stuff all the | |
time. Hard to find. Probably why gaming jobs are notoriously | |
underpaid and overworked. | |
crazygringo wrote 1 day ago: | |
This is why specifications are important, and why design is | |
important. | |
The reality is that we have certain conventions that are immediately | |
understandable, and that too much visual complexity results in | |
confusion rather than clarity. | |
If the sky is hazy white when I expect it to be blue, I'm confused as | |
to whether it's the sky or if the map is still loading. It's adding | |
cognitive complexity for no reason. Stars similarly serve no | |
functional purpose at night. | |
What you built sounds great for an actual planetary view like Google | |
Earth. And it sounds fun to build. But it's an anti-feature for a | |
navigation view. When you're navigating, simplicity and clarity are | |
paramount. Not realism. | |
wkjagt wrote 1 day ago: | |
Also, any fanciness you add in your product is something you need | |
to then maintain. Even after the developer that built it leaves the | |
company. | |
carlosjobim wrote 17 hours 50 min ago: | |
It takes thousands of years for the stars to have changed | |
positions in a noticeable way, and my best guess is that the | |
customers will not use their car GPS for so long that this will | |
bother them. | |
crazygringo wrote 17 hours 16 min ago: | |
Very funny, but in case you're serious, it's not the stars | |
changing... | |
...it's the software frameworks. A new screen size. A different | |
color depth. A bug when the graphics library is upgraded for | |
antialiasing. Etc. | |
carlosjobim wrote 16 hours 30 min ago: | |
That's not going to be an issue with devices already sold. | |
And if developers of future devices can't handle it they | |
should probably be fired from their job. | |
crazygringo wrote 13 hours 27 min ago: | |
It's not a question of whether future developers can | |
"handle" it. It's a question of whether the additional time | |
required to maintain it is worth the cost. Maintenance | |
isn't free. It takes time, and every little bit adds up. | |
Also, devices already sold often get updates, so it's not | |
even just about future devices. | |
dylan604 wrote 1 day ago: | |
> This is why specifications are important, and why design is | |
important. | |
Also the phrase "know your audience". No sense in casting pearls | |
before the swine. | |
resonious wrote 1 day ago: | |
Though sometimes the higher ups might not be the same as (or | |
understand) the actual audience. | |
In this case the higher ups may have been confused due to, say, | |
looking at the app while indoors (and from the perspective of | |
"let's judge this developer's work"), while the actual users | |
would see it in a vehicle alongside the real sky (and from the | |
perspective of "let's see how easy this is to match up with | |
reality"). | |
dylan604 wrote 1 day ago: | |
Ah, I see the confusion. You think the users are the dev's | |
audience! /s | |
resonious wrote 1 day ago: | |
I suppose this is the lesson OP learned! | |
edoceo wrote 1 day ago: | |
I wish more people knew it. So many times frustration of | |
the system is directed at devs. They couldn't figure out X? | |
Why is Z feature so shit? Etc. | |
That's a management thumbprint on the deliverable. | |
johnfn wrote 1 day ago: | |
Oh come now. You are being no fun. | |
Waterluvian wrote 1 day ago: | |
Iâve had similar issues at work where people really overdo | |
something and itâs difficult. On one hand you never want to kill | |
that joy and passion someone has. Thatâs a great characteristic. | |
But projects have scopes and too often instructions like âjust draw | |
a blue rectangleâ get ignored. | |
ryandrake wrote 1 day ago: | |
Totally. It was a harsh but needed lesson on the realities of | |
getting work done in a commercial environment. | |
benrutter wrote 1 day ago: | |
Ironically, I'm in the South of England wih clear blue sky, and the | |
site thinks I have a much darker and beautiful reddish sunset. Im | |
fairness, it's probably only out by an hour if that. | |
thebruce87m wrote 22 hours 37 min ago: | |
Maybe it is out by an hour due to BST. | |
marcosdumay wrote 1 day ago: | |
Yep, if you have to draw the Sun, you better draw it yellow. If you | |
have to draw a cloudless day sky, you better draw it blue. | |
That doesn't apply to every single instance of those, but if the sky | |
isn't the focus of your application, a realistic one is just a | |
distraction. | |
dylan604 wrote 1 day ago: | |
> Yep, if you have to draw the Sun, you better draw it yellow. | |
This one always gets me in how dirty the sky must have been "back | |
in the day" in order for people to see a yellow sun. I've never | |
looked into what gas would be needed to make the sun look yellow, | |
but it must have been hell to breathe. | |
card_zero wrote 1 day ago: | |
Nah, the ancient Egyptians, and other cultures, depicted the sun | |
a lot, and never made it white. Red, quite often, gold, very | |
frequently - warm colors. If you paint a white sun people say | |
it's the moon. | |
withinboredom wrote 1 day ago: | |
The walls were black for a reason in big cities. All those | |
chimneys and coal everywhere. | |
teaearlgraycold wrote 1 day ago: | |
To be honest I donât think anyone wants that kind of functionality | |
- maybe in the satellite view but not in the vector map. | |
jbverschoor wrote 1 day ago: | |
Whipping down the innovator with the stupidity whip. Great management | |
idiotsecant wrote 1 day ago: | |
This is a wildly unprofessional attitude. Programmers are | |
craft(wo)men. They employ their craft toward creating things people | |
pay them to create. | |
We aren't painting sistine chapels, we are running the plumbing in | |
the sistine chapels basement. The job doesn't exist to give you | |
emotional fulfillment. A mason doesn't insist that a client who | |
needs a warehouse must pay him to spend a week detailing corbelled | |
brick cornices. He makes a CMU wall, in the cheapest and most | |
efficient way that still gets the job done. | |
It's profoundly disrespectful when we build monuments to our own | |
ego instead of just getting the work done and it speaks to a | |
professional immaturity of the highest order. That was one of the | |
hardest lessons I learned as a fresh engineer and I see so often | |
others that are just learning it. Sometimes people never learn it. | |
sgarland wrote 1 day ago: | |
> We aren't painting sistine chapels, we are running the plumbing | |
in the sistine chapels basement. | |
Sure, but in plumbing - or any trade - there is a huge spectrum | |
of quality of work. Tons of little details add up that confer the | |
personâs skill level to anyone checking it out in the future. | |
> It's profoundly disrespectful when we build monuments to our | |
own ego instead of just getting the work done and it speaks to a | |
professional immaturity of the highest order. | |
When I insist that something must be done a certain way, itâs | |
not for my ego, itâs because I know that a year from now, I | |
will be called upon to fix it during an incident if I donât do | |
it right this time. I am so absolutely sick of hacky bandaids | |
being thrown on the ever-increasing pile of tech debt. To me, | |
itâs profoundly disrespectful when product tells engineering | |
that yet again, they will not yield time to fix the backlog, and | |
to ship New Feature X. | |
ChrisMarshallNY wrote 1 day ago: | |
I've been in the developer's shoes. I've also been in the manager's | |
shoes. | |
It's not that simple. There's possibly better ways to deal with it, | |
but for safety-critical stuff (like a navigation display in a | |
vehicle), simple is much, much better. In many cases, there's | |
actually laws and liability stuff involved. | |
I once spent six months, developing an "un-asked-for" WiFi control | |
app for a digital camera, and had it nuked. It worked much better | |
than the shipping app (which was enjoying a richly-deserved | |
one-star rating in the app store). | |
The considerations had a lot to do with the corporate Process (note | |
the capital "P"), which I sidelined. I thought I could do better, | |
but the people with the hands on the brake, thought different. I | |
didn't kiss the right rings. That's a very real consideration in | |
any corporation. | |
As a manager, however, I did go to bat for employees that displayed | |
initiative. In some cases, I was successful. In some cases, not so | |
much. | |
hobs wrote 1 day ago: | |
There's so much decision making in companies that comes down to | |
some dingus in management decided that it would Be Bad On | |
Purpose. Fighting that battle is something you can try a few | |
times in your career if you want, but it usually leads to burnout | |
or a resume generating event. | |
woah wrote 1 day ago: | |
It sounds like the developer spent a lot of time implementing | |
something that nobody wanted. Drawing the sky accurately may be | |
cool, but it wasn't required in this case. It's also not | |
innovation. It's been done before. | |
This is like if you were renovating your house and the drywall guy | |
spends a huge amount of time building up round corners, but you | |
just wanted regular square corners. Then on some drywall forum | |
they're bitching about how "all clients are stupid" or something. | |
alwa wrote 19 hours 27 min ago: | |
And, from the sound of it, the developer confused truth with | |
beauty. Sometimes weâd prefer to see the sky the way we wish it | |
were rather than the way it is. | |
Thatâs an aesthetic call, not a âwho can do the mathâ cal… | |
âGood news, I accurately simulated the particulate load in the | |
local atmosphereâso now you authentically canât read the text | |
on a given smoggy winter morning!â | |
(FWIW, grace for management decisions notwithstanding, I think | |
what gp did is awesome, and would switch on full realism mode | |
every time :) | |
ryandrake wrote 1 day ago: | |
A foundational, core theme about making commercial software, that | |
repeats over and over and I slowly got accustomed to is: companies | |
really don't want these kinds of micro-innovations. 90% of | |
companies are just looking at their competitors, making a checklist | |
out of those products, and asking engineers to check the boxes and | |
go home. They don't care about little details, about craftsmanship | |
and polish, about lint warnings, about "oh, that's a nice touch," | |
or even quality beyond "will the customer return the product?" They | |
just want people to poop out software as fast as possible so | |
everyone can get bonuses and drive around on their jetskis on | |
Saturday. | |
If you're the kind of developer who likes to "sand and finish the | |
back side of the cabinet," either you need to find a very rare, | |
special company, or do it at home as a hobby. | |
cyberax wrote 1 day ago: | |
> They don't care about little details, about craftsmanship and | |
polish, about lint warnings, about "oh, that's a nice touch," or | |
even quality beyond "will the customer return the product?" | |
I worked at large companies, and there are reasons beyond that. | |
I've been on the both sides of this fence. | |
Senior engineers feel the pain of supporting all these features. | |
You created a new streaming API prototype that provides a gradual | |
response, progressively displaying details of the 3D model? | |
Great. But it's 15000 lines of dense code without a lot of | |
explanation. Who is going to support it once you leave the | |
company? Is it secure? How does it work with kiosk-type browsers? | |
Can you write a formal proposal so we can start the review | |
process? | |
Oh, I see that you're already leaving the company :( | |
And that's also why startups are often so much more successful | |
initially. They just don't care about the long-term support and | |
YOLO a lot of functionality. | |
jbverschoor wrote 18 hours 41 min ago: | |
Sure.. but all there prototypes don't have to be released. It's | |
part of innovation. And maybe you'll even find a new product or | |
a competitive edge. | |
jbverschoor wrote 1 day ago: | |
But it's exactly the thing that makes software "delightful". It's | |
also a huge boost to the developer's appreciation, motivation, | |
productivity, care for the product. | |
But yeah, if you only care about checking the feature boxes.. Go | |
ahead, make shit software with miserable people, but be sure to | |
prepare to go out of business. | |
philipallstar wrote 1 day ago: | |
The point is a real skybox is not great for satnav software. | |
It's probably actually worse than a stylised mode, with a | |
predictable colour background for anything that's going to sit | |
on top of it. | |
jbverschoor wrote 18 hours 43 min ago: | |
That's exactly not the point. | |
Where do you think innovation comes from? | |
It comes from tinkering. | |
zarzavat wrote 1 day ago: | |
You should have added a duck. | |
otikik wrote 1 day ago: | |
I understood that reference | |
darknavi wrote 1 day ago: | |
A past coworker who worked on Cobalt[1] told me that they spent | |
entirely too much time implementing stars in the sky of the game with | |
some amount of real(ish) star system physics behind them. | |
I can understand people removing polish things like that if there are | |
usability concerns, but those small things add up to a lot in an end | |
product and are a joy to find and explore. | |
1: | |
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobalt_(video_game) | |
dylan604 wrote 1 day ago: | |
The last thing you want is to receive a message from Neil Degrasse | |
Tyson about how wrong your sky was | |
[1]: https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=neil+degrasse+tyson+gives... | |
edoceo wrote 1 day ago: | |
And pointed out Jon Stewart's globe spinned backward | |
pava0 wrote 1 day ago: | |
Cobalt was a really interesting game, too bad it never got any fame | |
netsharc wrote 1 day ago: | |
Not even as an easter egg? | |
You could've sold it with telling them Vincent Van Gogh's paintings | |
had the location of stars accurately, you were inspired by those | |
paintings to reproduce the sky color accurately. | |
j_bum wrote 1 day ago: | |
Fun (but not fun) story :) | |
hoppp wrote 1 day ago: | |
Seems to work :) | |
siva7 wrote 1 day ago: | |
how i missed this small hn posts. thanks | |
nnnnico wrote 2 days ago: | |
incredible <3 not much else to say | |
throwanem wrote 2 days ago: | |
> the little-known meta http-equiv="Refresh" HTML tag | |
Oh, don't mind me, I'll just be over here in the corner laughing | |
ruefully as my bones crumble to dust: back when I started, if you | |
wanted a page to refresh on its own, this was the only way. | |
Beautiful work! A splendid example of formal minimalism at its best. | |
mintplant wrote 1 day ago: | |
Of course, the "http-equiv" means that this tag is supposed to stand | |
in for an equivalent HTTP header, so you could accomplish the same by | |
sending a "Refresh: 60" header :) | |
js2 wrote 1 day ago: | |
There was also server[-side] push: | |
[1]: https://www.oreilly.com/openbook/cgi/ch06_06.html | |
throwanem wrote 1 day ago: | |
Sure, if you wanted to deal with configuring Apache. Or getting | |
your hosting provider to do that. If you knew to ask, and didn't | |
mind waiting, and your hosting provider knew how... | |
dudus wrote 1 day ago: | |
Not sure what you are on about. Adding an HTTP header to a | |
request is one of the easiest things to do. | |
urquhartfe wrote 1 day ago: | |
I think you are the one who doesn't know what they are on | |
about. | |
First, the header must be added to the response, not the | |
request. | |
Second, in many environments (managed hosting etc.) there is | |
not an easy way (or indeed a way at all) of adding headers to | |
responses. | |
bapak wrote 1 day ago: | |
What are you talking about. Any non-static hosting will let | |
you specify headers with a plain php function. Any baseline | |
shared hosting offers that kind of control and has done so | |
for the past 20+ years. | |
KTibow wrote 1 day ago: | |
> Second, in many environments (managed hosting etc.) there | |
is not an easy way (or indeed a way at all) of adding headers | |
to responses. | |
It's getting better. Most serverless hosts (including | |
Cloudflare, which this site uses) follow the (req: Request) | |
=> Response pattern, which by definition allows sending | |
headers. | |
dylan604 wrote 1 day ago: | |
is that something that could have be done in the dot file for | |
server override? what was it, .htaccess or something? | |
astrange wrote 1 day ago: | |
Ever tried doing it in nginx? You'll find `add_header` | |
doesn't work at all the way you think it does. | |
And it doesn't allow overrides in dotfiles since that's not | |
performant or secure. | |
throwanem wrote 1 day ago: | |
Sure, if you wanted to deal with configuring Apache. Or | |
getting your hosting provider to do that. If you knew to | |
ask, and didn't mind waiting, and your hosting provider | |
knew how...and was willing to do it, a condition I forgot | |
to add in my last comment here, but which applies equally | |
there. (User-provided .htaccess files were the source of a | |
number of relatively high-profile early CVEs, as I recall. | |
Apache grew a number of options for trusting their content, | |
and I want to say before very long you could not rely on | |
anything working past simple HTTP-Basic credential | |
management.) | |
Oldschool shared web hosting was a shockingly deprived | |
environment by modern standards, which is why my Linode | |
account turned old enough a few months ago to buy a drink | |
in a bar: $20 a month in 2004 was amply worth gaining a | |
degree of control over web server configuration which is | |
broadly the default assumption now. | |
Since I was also administering some shared web hosting in | |
my own right at the time - partially overlapping with my | |
web design work targeting shared hosting, since some | |
customers preferred to BYO - I don't blame admins for being | |
difficult to work with; we all had good reason to be, with | |
the afterthought security typically was everywhere in those | |
days. But you begin perhaps to see why bypassing the whole | |
rigamarole with a hint to the client was attractive. | |
dylan604 wrote 1 day ago: | |
but that was the point of the dot file to allow vhosts to | |
change the default server settings without needing access | |
to the root config. maybe they weren't designed | |
specifically for vhosts, but that was my main use of | |
them. | |
throwanem wrote 1 day ago: | |
Yes. If the main Apache config was set up to allow it | |
to read a dotfile, and if configured not to ignore the | |
options you wanted to use, that is what the dotfile | |
did. That's why, if you wanted an option easily | |
portable across hosting providers, you used the meta | |
tag instead. Which is my point, and my only point, and | |
not really up for debate by some pettifogging rando | |
with nothing better to fill a Saturday night. | |
dylan604 wrote 1 day ago: | |
Wtf, seriously. I was just asking. Sorry if that | |
resulted in me pissing in your cheerios. Just because | |
a question was asked doesnât mean it was | |
challenging your knowledge. I was just asking to | |
clarify based on personal experience. If you donât | |
have time for questions or feel personally slighted | |
that someone would have the gall to question the | |
written word of the almighty throwanem, then posting | |
on the internet is probably something you stop doing | |
throwanem wrote 1 day ago: | |
It isn't a question of "challenging [my] | |
knowledge," it's a question of you acting like kind | |
of a jerk. I realize you don't see yourself as the | |
one starting an argument here, and I have observed | |
your manners likewise lacking on many occasions on | |
this website before. Your opinion of the matter is | |
not well qualified. You're being an ass. Knock it | |
off. | |
I realize you're probably not accustomed to being | |
called on your lousy behavior. I doubt you will | |
need to become so. But just for once, here we are. | |
You don't bother to find out what you're talking | |
about before you speak and then you want your hand | |
held on points that were already clarified, had you | |
but bothered to catch up. I don't tolerate that in | |
candidates, I won't tolerate it in colleagues, and | |
I see no very pressing reason to tolerate it here. | |
radicalriddler wrote 8 hours 28 min ago: | |
You're like the caricature of what other social | |
media platforms represent HN users to be. | |
throwanem wrote 42 min ago: | |
Not really, that's more like N-Gate (pbuh, rip) | |
[1] | |
[1]: http://n-gate.com/hackernews/ | |
skrebbel wrote 1 day ago: | |
I canât wait till they hear about framesets | |
dlazaro wrote 1 day ago: | |
Thank you! And umm, not to make you feel ancient, but I think I | |
wasn't even alive yet when `setTimeout(() => location.reload(), ...)` | |
first became widely available. | |
throwanem wrote 1 day ago: | |
Oh, don't worry about it at all, and I don't just mean in my own | |
case. Every generation learns to age graciously or otherwise, | |
partly through experience, and for me it's a regular source of joy | |
to see you young 'uns independently rediscover things I long since | |
quit bothering to remember. | |
phatskat wrote 1 day ago: | |
Honestly itâs kind of cute, I had all but forgotten about | |
http-equiv | |
stephenlf wrote 2 days ago: | |
Fantastic. Iâve always wondered why the sky wasnât blue around the | |
horizon. Fascinating stuff. | |
verandaguy wrote 1 day ago: | |
There's two main reasons for this: | |
- First and most impactful: as the earth curves down and away from | |
the observer's horizon, your line of sight goes through a thicker | |
slice of the atmosphere. | |
Looking straight up you might have 100km of atmosphere until space | |
(the distance is made up here, but I'm using the Kármán line as an | |
arbitrary ruler), but looking out towards the horizon (assuming a | |
perfectly spherical Earth), it's much, much more than that 100km, so | |
the light will scatter off of (and/or be filtered by, depending on | |
angle and time of day) more particles in the atmosphere, affecting | |
the colour of the sky. | |
- The compounding factor here is if there are environmental factors | |
that boost the particle count in the air, and especially particles | |
that'd stay in lower layers of the atmosphere. Where I am, we've been | |
dealing with wildfire smoke of varying strengths for a few weeks. | |
Today's gentle enough, but it's bad enough that my gradient goes from | |
rgb(115, 160, 207) at the top of the sky to rgb(227, 230, 227) at the | |
horizon (which is shockingly accurate). | |
<- back to front page |