_______ __ _______ | |
| | |.---.-..----.| |--..-----..----. | | |.-----..--.--.--..-----. | |
| || _ || __|| < | -__|| _| | || -__|| | | ||__ --| | |
|___|___||___._||____||__|__||_____||__| |__|____||_____||________||_____| | |
on Gopher (inofficial) | |
Visit Hacker News on the Web | |
COMMENT PAGE FOR: | |
Show HN: I AI-coded a tower defense game and documented the whole process | |
josvdwest wrote 4 hours 38 min ago: | |
Such a cool game! Exactly the simple TD game I've been craving for a | |
while. | |
If you ever want to build this out in Unity, you should try [1] for the | |
AI copilot | |
Thanks for the game! | |
[1]: https://www.coplay.dev/ | |
Waterluvian wrote 8 hours 22 min ago: | |
Iâm finding incredible amusement in the idea of there being people | |
who check-in prompts as the source code, and the âreproducible | |
buildsâ people, and sitting them next to each other at a convention. | |
Lerc wrote 12 hours 19 min ago: | |
Thanks for this, I made a tower defence a while ago and I had been | |
considering applying an AI to the task of designing new waves and | |
tuning hitpoints/speed/armour | |
It made me think that one of the things that it probably needs is a way | |
to get a 'feel' for the game in motion. Perhaps a protocol for | |
encoding visible game state into tokens is needed. With terrain, game | |
entity positions, and any other properties visible to the player. I | |
don't think a straight autoencoder over the whole thing would work but | |
a game element autoencoder might as a list of tokens. | |
Then the game could provide an image for what the screen looks like | |
plus tokens fed directly out of the engine to give the AI a notion of | |
what is actually occurring. I'm not sure how much training a model | |
would need to be able to use the tokens effectively. It's possible | |
that the current embedding space can hold a representation of game | |
state in a few tokens, then maybe only finetuning would be needed. | |
You'd 'just' need a training set of game logs with measurements of how | |
much fun people found them. There's probably some intriguing | |
information there for whoever makes such a dataset. Identifying | |
player preference clusters would open doors to making variants of | |
existing games for different player types. | |
davidmurdoch wrote 13 hours 23 min ago: | |
> AIs like to write a lot of code | |
I vibe coded a greenfield side project last weekend for the first time | |
and I was not prepared for this. It wrote probably 5x more functions | |
than it needed or used, and it absolutely did not trust the type | |
definitions. It added runtime guards for so many random property | |
accesses. | |
I enjoyed watching it go from taking credit for writing new files and | |
changes, and then slowly forgetting after a few hours that it was the | |
one that wrote it ... repeatedly calling calling it "legacy" code and | |
assuming the intents of the original author. | |
But yeah, it, Claude (no idea which one), likes to be verbose! | |
I especially find it funny when it would load the web app in the | |
built-in browser to check its work, and then claiming it found the | |
problem before the page even finishes opening. | |
I noticed it's really obsessed with using Python tooling... in a | |
typescript/node/npm project. | |
Overall it was fun and useful, but we've got a long way to go before | |
PMs and non-engineers can write production-quality software from | |
scratch via prompts. | |
MattRix wrote 12 hours 33 min ago: | |
In my experience Claude Sonnet is much more verbose than Claude Opus, | |
and writes worse code as a result. The difference is pretty striking | |
once you try using them both for the same task. | |
ukuina wrote 5 hours 46 min ago: | |
It generally feels like Opus gives you the 5th or 10th iteration, | |
but Sonnet gives you the first possible solution. | |
iaw wrote 13 hours 54 min ago: | |
I've been using Claude to do the things that are straightforward that I | |
don't want to for about a month now. The power of these development | |
techniques is no where near fully tapped yet from what I can see. | |
M4v3R wrote 13 hours 46 min ago: | |
Oh definitely. Just wait one year. Or five. Or ten. Weâre in it for | |
a wild, wild ride. | |
zahirbmirza wrote 13 hours 56 min ago: | |
so cool | |
jedberg wrote 15 hours 1 min ago: | |
Ok folks, I need a hint. I can't ever build up enough energy to afford | |
a second turret. What's the secret? | |
ethan_smith wrote 12 hours 41 min ago: | |
Focus on upgrading your first turret to level 2 before building a | |
second one - this increases energy generation significantly and makes | |
additional turrets affordable. | |
jedberg wrote 12 hours 29 min ago: | |
Ah!! I didnât even realize I could upgrade. Thanks! | |
M4v3R wrote 12 hours 25 min ago: | |
Um, you canât ^^â. The key is to use the rewind power very | |
sparingly, only as long as itâs required to destroy the enemy. | |
This way youâll guarantee you will be in the net positive | |
energy generation for the first 2-3 waves. You should be able to | |
afford the 2nd tower by the end of Wave 2. | |
jedberg wrote 12 hours 19 min ago: | |
I was barely using the backspace, I even tried letting most of | |
the enemies through, but I never built up enough energy for a | |
second tower. | |
shironandonon_ wrote 15 hours 3 min ago: | |
Thanks for the read! I too have over 20 years in tech and have been | |
going back and forth with Gemini-cli to gamify some tools for | |
integration testing some Enterprise applications and itâs amazing | |
what can be done with Gemini alongside usage of MCP servers. I am | |
finding positive results if I approach problems in chunks and provide | |
clarity in prompt instructions. The AI will make mistakes and | |
sometimes get caught up in loops for some problems (like application | |
routing.. lol) but I am happy to step in and effectively pair program | |
with the AI when issues are present. I notice too that it has never | |
been a better time to enforce things like how Duplication Is Evil | |
because otherwise the AI may make a change in one area and forget that | |
it has similar changes to make in another file. This applies both to | |
programming logic as well as User eXperience and application behaviour. | |
Anyway what a world. It would have taken me weeks to create what an AI | |
and myself are able to whip up in a few short, and fun, hours. | |
Giving a personality to Gemini is also a vital feature to me. I love | |
the portability of the GEMINI.md file so I can bring that personality | |
onto other devices and hand-tailor it to custom specifications. | |
EwanG wrote 15 hours 12 min ago: | |
Curious if anyone here has tried rosebud.ai for something similar. I | |
looked into it, and it did appear to break it down into steps, but | |
can't really produce anything that runs without upgrading to a paid | |
tier. | |
alganet wrote 16 hours 45 min ago: | |
I think indie games could be a really good use case for coding AIs. Low | |
stakes, fun-oriented, sounds like a match. | |
The first commit[0] seems to have a lot of code, but no `PROMPTS.md` | |
yet. | |
For example, `EnergySystem.ts` is already present on this first commit, | |
but later appears in the `PROMPTS.md` in a way that suggests it was | |
made from scratch by the AI. | |
Can you elaborate a bit more on this part of the repository history? | |
[0]: | |
[1]: https://github.com/maciej-trebacz/tower-of-time-game/commit/81... | |
M4v3R wrote 16 hours 16 min ago: | |
Because this was a game jam entry with one week deadline I was going | |
pretty fast and didn't bother to use source control for the first 2-3 | |
days of work, hence the huge initial commit. I also weren't writing | |
down prompts as I went, only after the game was finished I went back | |
in my chat history in the tools I used and copied all the prompts to | |
the `PROMPTS.md` file. | |
If you want to follow the history of this project as it was created | |
the best way would be to read the prompts file from top to bottom. | |
For example the EnergySystem.ts file was created right after I was | |
done with enemy pathfinding, spawing and tower shooting and it was | |
created from scratch by the AI using the prompt "I want to implement | |
an Energy subsystem where..." | |
alganet wrote 16 hours 3 min ago: | |
Thanks for clarifying! | |
Also, good catch in using the chat history to reconstruct the first | |
phases of work. | |
I believe it can be a fun experiment for others to try to reproduce | |
it from scratch using the prompts and image assets only. | |
smusamashah wrote 16 hours 47 min ago: | |
How much time did it take start to finish? | |
M4v3R wrote 16 hours 8 min ago: | |
It took about a week working on it on and off in my spare time. I'd | |
say probably 25-30 hours total. | |
colinmilhaupt wrote 16 hours 49 min ago: | |
Thanks for sharing! This aligns with a workflow I've been converging on | |
incorporating traceability and transparency into LLM-augmented | |
workflows[1]. One of the big benefits I've realized is sharing and | |
committing prompts gives significantly more insight into the original | |
problem set out to be solved by the developer, and then it additionally | |
shows how it morphed over time or what new challenges arose. Cool | |
project! | |
[1]: https://colinmilhaupt.com/posts/responsible-llm-use/ | |
jslakro wrote 17 hours 27 min ago: | |
I didn't find any mention to the costs spent on Claude | |
iaw wrote 13 hours 58 min ago: | |
I'm using Claude for my side projects. The pricing tiers are Free | |
(for Sonnet 3.5), $20/m for Opus 4, $100/m for max (5x usage limit as | |
$20) and then a $200 tier above that at another 5x I believe. | |
The usage limits reset every 6 hours. | |
M4v3R wrote 17 hours 25 min ago: | |
I've mentioned this in other replies, but I actually didn't pay for | |
Claude directly, only via Cursor with their $20/mo subscription. | |
doddpronter wrote 17 hours 42 min ago: | |
That's pretty impressive and super motivating. Love that you documented | |
the prompts. From my experience "vibe coding" can either speed you up | |
or slow you down. As long as you are using succinct and clear | |
instructions and know how to review code quickly, as well as understand | |
the architecture you can really speed up the process | |
malochak wrote 18 hours 22 min ago: | |
I couldn't stop playing this game, very engaging :) | |
Thanks! | |
thegrim33 wrote 18 hours 34 min ago: | |
After scanning through the video, the first 20 minutes is a guy doing | |
coding with no AI involved. He's manually designing a level in a | |
pre-made level editor. He's manually writing code in a pre-made IDE. | |
He's not having AI code. | |
At the 20 minute mark, he decides to ask the AI a question. He wants it | |
to figure out how to prevent a menu from showing when it shouldn't. It | |
takes him 57 seconds to type/communicate this to the AI. | |
He then basically just sits there for over 60 seconds while the AI | |
analyzes the relevant code and figures it out, slowly outputting | |
progress along the way. | |
After a full two minutes into this "AI assistance" process, the AI | |
finally tells him to just call a "canBuildAtCurrentPosition" method | |
when a button is pressed, which is a method that already exists, to | |
switch on whether the menu should be shown or not. | |
The AI also then tries to do something with running the game to test if | |
that change works, even though in the context he provided he told it to | |
never try to run it, so he has to forcefully stop the AI from | |
continuing to spend more time running, and he has to edit a context | |
file to be even more explicit about how the AI should not do that. He's | |
frustrated, saying "how many times do I have to tell it to not do | |
that". | |
So, his first use of AI in 20 minutes of coding, is an over two minute | |
long process, for the AI to tell him to just call a method that already | |
existed when a button is pressed. A single line change. A change which | |
you could trivially do in < 5 seconds if you were just aware of what | |
code existed in your project. | |
About what I expected. | |
rybosome wrote 16 hours 51 min ago: | |
One could find a 5-minute slice of any highly successful project | |
Iâve worked on where my actions look foolish and my tools look | |
broken. | |
Isolating your analysis of this to a single unflattering interaction | |
is intellectually dishonest; you have a bone to pick. | |
M4v3R wrote 18 hours 21 min ago: | |
Congratulations, you've managed to spot all the pain/weak points of | |
the whole ~30 hour process without ever noticing all the good points. | |
It takes a special type of skill to do so :). | |
> About what I expected. | |
But then again, you opened the video already with an expectation to | |
see failure, so of course you found it. | |
ofjcihen wrote 18 hours 36 min ago: | |
Why does this and the follow up comments feel like a sneaky ad for this | |
âAugment Codeâ tool? | |
nico wrote 18 hours 25 min ago: | |
Maybe because it stands out against the other (very well known) tools | |
mentioned in the readme | |
I came back here specifically to ask about Augment Code, after going | |
to their website and not really understanding what it is | |
M4v3R wrote 18 hours 25 min ago: | |
You might want to read a reply I just posted to another commenter | |
about what I dislike about this tool and how I'll probably switch to | |
a different one [0] | |
[0] | |
[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44463967#44465304 | |
twalkz wrote 18 hours 38 min ago: | |
I'm really enjoying reading over the prompts used for development: ( | |
[1] ) | |
A lot of posts about "vibe coding success stories" would have you | |
believe that with the right mix of MCPs, some complex claude code | |
orchestration flow that uses 20 agents in parallel, and a bunch of | |
LLM-generated rules files you can one-shot a game like this with the | |
prompt "create a tower defense game where you rewind time. No security | |
holes. No bugs." | |
But the prompts used for this project match my experience of what works | |
best with AI-coding: a strong and thorough idea of what you want, | |
broken up into hundreds of smaller problems, with specific | |
architectural steers on the really critical pieces. | |
[1]: https://github.com/maciej-trebacz/tower-of-time-game/blob/main... | |
unclebucknasty wrote 7 hours 5 min ago: | |
>a strong and thorough idea of what you want, broken up into hundreds | |
of smaller problems, with specific architectural steers on the really | |
critical pieces. | |
Serious question: at what point is it easier to just write the code? | |
kenjackson wrote 3 hours 35 min ago: | |
Depends. If you have written other Tower Defense games then itâs | |
probably really close to that line. If you just took a CS class in | |
high school then this vibe approach is probably 20x faster. | |
My aunt would always tell me that making fresh pasta or grounding | |
your own meat was basically just as fast as buying it. And while it | |
may have have been true for her it definitely wasnât for me. | |
skydhash wrote 6 hours 40 min ago: | |
And if it's a work project, you're going to spend a few years | |
working on the same tech. So by the time you're done, there's going | |
to be templates, snippets,... that you can quickly reuse for any | |
prototyping with the tech. You would be faster by the fact that you | |
know that it's correct and you don't have to review it. Helps | |
greatly with mental load. I remember initializing a project in | |
React by lifting whole modules out of an old one. Those modules | |
could have been libraries the way they were coded. | |
unclebucknasty wrote 3 hours 23 min ago: | |
All of this, and highlighting this part: | |
>You would be faster by the fact that you know that it's correct | |
and you don't have to review it. Helps greatly with mental load. | |
I keep thinking maybe it's me who's just not getting the vibe | |
coding hype. Or maybe my writing vs reading code efficiency is | |
skewed towards writing more than most people's. Because the idea | |
of validating and fixing code vs just writing it doesn't feel | |
efficient or quality-oriented. | |
Then, there's the idea that it will suddenly break code that | |
previously worked. | |
Overall, I keep hearing people advocating for providing the AI | |
more details, new approaches/processes/etc. to try to get the | |
right output. It makes me wonder if things might be coming full | |
circle. I mean, there has to be some point where it's better to | |
just write the code and be done with it. | |
mvkel wrote 8 hours 4 min ago: | |
What I've found works best is to hand-code the first feature, | |
rendering the codebase itself effectively a self-documenting entity. | |
Then you can vibe code the rest. | |
All future features will have enough patterns defined from the first | |
one (schema, folder structure, modules, views, components, etc), that | |
very few explicit vibe coding rules need to be defined. | |
Swizec wrote 16 hours 1 min ago: | |
> what works best with AI-coding: a strong and thorough idea of what | |
you want, broken up into hundreds of smaller problems, with specific | |
architectural steers on the really critical pieces | |
As a tech lead who also wears product owner hats sometimes: This is | |
how you should do it with humans also. At least 70% of my job is | |
translating an executiveâs âTime travel tower game. No bugsâ | |
into that long series of prompts with a strong architectural vision | |
that people can work on as a team with the right levels of | |
abstraction to avoid stepping on each otherâs toes. | |
AndrewKemendo wrote 16 hours 13 min ago: | |
> A lot of posts about "vibe coding success stories" | |
Where are you reading âa lot of postsâ making this specific | |
claim? Iâve never seen any serious person make such a claim | |
> a strong and thorough idea of what you want, broken up into | |
hundreds of smaller problems, with specific architectural steers on | |
the really critical pieces. | |
This is how Iâve been using LLM bots since CGPT preview and itâs | |
been phenomenally useful and 100x my productivity | |
The gap seems to be between people who never knew how to build, | |
looking for a perfect Oracle that would be like a genie in a lamp, | |
then mad when its actual work | |
The thing the last few years have beat into me is that most engineers | |
are actually functionally bad engineers who only know 1:1000th of | |
what they should know in order to know how to build a successful | |
project end to end | |
My assumption was that all of the bad engineers I worked with in | |
person were a accidental sample of some larger group of really good | |
ones (who Iâve also been able to work with over the years) and that | |
itâs just rare to find an actual capable engineer who understands | |
the whole process | |
Turns out thatâs a trivial minority (like every other field) and | |
most people are pretty bad at what they do | |
johnrob wrote 15 hours 55 min ago: | |
I see 100x used quite a bit related to LLM productivity. It seems | |
extreme because it implies one could generate a yearâs worth of | |
value in a few days. I would think delivering features involves | |
too much non coding work for this to be possible. | |
AndrewKemendo wrote 14 hours 19 min ago: | |
But thatâs precisely what Iâm saying is that what I can do | |
today by myself in a couple of days would have taken me a year | |
with a team of three people | |
The key limiting factor to any project as somebody else in this | |
thread said was âpeople alignment are the number one hindrance | |
in project speedâ | |
So 10 years ago if I wanted to make a web application that does | |
complex shit Iâd have to go and hire a handful of experts have | |
them coordinate, manage the coordination of it, deliver it, | |
monitor it everything else all the way through ideation | |
storyboarding and everything else | |
I can do 100% of that myself now, now itâs true I couldâve | |
done 100% of myself previously, but again it took a year of side | |
effort to do it | |
sarchertech wrote 13 hours 55 min ago: | |
If 100x was really possible, it would be instantly, undeniably | |
obvious to everyone. There would be no need for people | |
alignment because one lone developer could crank out basically | |
anything less complicated than an OS in a month. | |
M4v3R wrote 13 hours 48 min ago: | |
It is starting to become obvious to more and more people. And | |
is it really that hard to believe that a tool can extend your | |
natural abilities by 2 orders of magnitude but not everyone | |
can instantly use it? If fact youâre using one right now. | |
Your computer or phone can do many things orders of magnitude | |
faster than you can do alone, but only until recently most | |
people had no idea how to use computers and could not benefit | |
from this power. | |
I believe with LLMâs were set to relive the same phenomenon | |
again. | |
sarchertech wrote 13 hours 29 min ago: | |
I use it at work everyday. I work with people who use it | |
everyday. 100x is complete and utter nonsense. | |
100x means that I can finish something that would have | |
taken me 10 years in a little over a month. | |
It would be obvious not because people are posting âI get | |
a 100x productivity boostâ, but because show HN would be | |
filled with âlook at this database engine I wrote in a | |
monthâ, and âcheck out this OS that took me 2 | |
monthsâ. | |
And people at work would be posting new repos where they | |
completely rewrote entire apps from the ground up to solve | |
annoying tech debt issues. | |
AndrewKemendo wrote 12 hours 33 min ago: | |
Youâre missing the point by bike shedding on â100xâ… | |
Itâs probably higher tbh because thereâs things I | |
prototyped to test an assumption on, realized it was | |
O(N^2) then dumped it and tried 4 more architecture | |
simulations to get to one that was implementable with | |
existing tool chains I know | |
So youâre doing exactly what i called out which is | |
evaluating it as a magic oracle instead of what I said | |
which is that it makes me personally something like 100x | |
more productive as a support tool, which often means | |
quickly ruling out bad ideas | |
Preventing a problem in architecture is worth way more | |
than 100x | |
sarchertech wrote 10 hours 2 min ago: | |
If what you meant by 100x more productive is that | |
sometimes for very some specific things it made you | |
100x more productive, and that isnât applicable to | |
software development in general, I can see that. | |
I have many times delivered a year of value in a few | |
days by figuring out that we didnât actually need to | |
build something instead of just building exactly what | |
someone asked for. | |
AndrewKemendo wrote 6 hours 8 min ago: | |
>I have many times delivered a year of value in a few | |
days by figuring out that we didnât actually need | |
to build something instead of just building exactly | |
what someone asked for. | |
Knowing what not to do more of a superpower than | |
knowing what to do - cause itâs possible to know | |
ramchip wrote 10 hours 39 min ago: | |
You can prototype by hand too. Personally I find it | |
might take me 10 min to try a change with an LLM that | |
would have taken me 30 min to 1hr by hand. It's a very | |
nice gain but given the other things to do that aren't | |
sped up by LLM all that much (thinking about the | |
options, communicating with the team), it's not _that_ | |
crazy. | |
barrkel wrote 15 hours 58 min ago: | |
The bottleneck IME is people. It's almost never code. It's getting | |
alignment, buy-in, everyone rowing in the same direction. | |
Tech that powers up an individual so they can go faster can be a | |
bit of a liability for a company, bus factor 1 and all that. | |
mberning wrote 16 hours 1 min ago: | |
100x is a bold statement. | |
Kiro wrote 15 hours 51 min ago: | |
You can easily get to 100x in a greenfield project but you will | |
never get to 100x in a legacy codebase. | |
all2 wrote 12 hours 23 min ago: | |
That depends on the code-base. I've found that hand-writing the | |
first 50% of the code base actually makes adding new features | |
somewhat easier because the context/shape of the idea is | |
starting to come into focus. The LLM can take what exists and | |
extrapolate on it. | |
jaggs wrote 16 hours 6 min ago: | |
> Where are you reading âa lot of postsâ making this specific | |
claim? | |
Reddit. | |
recursive wrote 16 hours 14 min ago: | |
Coincidentally those seem to be strongly correlated with success in | |
old fashioned application development as well. | |
fallinditch wrote 17 hours 14 min ago: | |
> what works best with AI-coding: a strong and thorough idea of what | |
you want, broken up into hundreds of smaller problems | |
A technique that works well for me is to get the AI to one-shot the | |
basic functionality or gameplay, and then build on top of that with | |
many iterations. | |
The one-shot should be immediately impressive, if not then ditch it | |
and try again with an amended prompt until you get something good to | |
build on. | |
stavros wrote 18 hours 35 min ago: | |
I tried to build a simple static HTML game for the board game Just | |
One, where you get a text box, type a word in, and it's shown full | |
screen on the phone. There's a bug where, when you type, the text box | |
jumps around, and none of the four LLMs I tried managed to fix it, no | |
matter how much I prompted them. I don't know how you guys manage to | |
one-shot entire games when I can't even stop a text box from jumping | |
around the screen :( | |
mberning wrote 15 hours 56 min ago: | |
Same. I had some idea that I wanted to build a basic sinatra webapp | |
with a couple features. First version was pretty good. Then I asked | |
it to use tailwind for the css. Again pretty good. Then I said I | |
wanted to use htmx to load content dynamically. Suddenly it decides | |
every backend method needs to check if the call is from htmx and | |
alter what it does based on that. No amount of prompting could get | |
it to fix it. | |
M4v3R wrote 15 hours 17 min ago: | |
Hard to tell what exactly went wrong in your case, but if I were | |
to guess - were you trying to do all of this in a single | |
LLM/agent conversation? If you'll look at my prompt history for | |
the game from OP you'll see it was created with a dozens of | |
separate conversations. This is crucial for non-trivial projects, | |
otherwise the agent will run out of context and start to | |
hallucinate. | |
mberning wrote 15 hours 8 min ago: | |
Agent mode in RubyMine which I think is using a recent version | |
of sonnet. I tried starting a new agent conversation but it was | |
still off quite a bit. For me my interest in finessing the LLM | |
runs out pretty quickly, especially if I see it moving further | |
and further from the mark. I guess I can see why some people | |
prefer to interact with the LLM more than the code, but Iâm | |
the opposite. My goal is to build something. If I can do in 2 | |
hours of prompting or 2 hours of doing it manually Iâd rather | |
just do it manually. Itâs a bit like using a mirror to button | |
your shirt. Iâd prefer to just look down. | |
M4v3R wrote 14 hours 53 min ago: | |
> If I can do in 2 hours of prompting or 2 hours of doing it | |
manually Iâd rather just do it manually. | |
100% agree, if that was the case I would not use LLMs either. | |
Point is, at least for my use case and using my workflow it's | |
more like 2 hours vs 10 minutes which suddenly changes the | |
whole equation for me. | |
fragmede wrote 18 hours 1 min ago: | |
CSS is the devil and I fully admit to burning many hours of dev | |
time, mine without an LLM, an LLM by itself, and a combination of | |
the two together to iron out similar layout nonsense for a game I | |
was helping a friend with. In the end, what solved it was breaking | |
things into hierarchical react components and adding divs by hand | |
and using the chrome dev tools inspector, and good old fashioned | |
human brain power to solve it. The other one was translating a | |
python script to rust. I let the LLM run me around in circles, but | |
what finally did it was using Google to find a different library to | |
use, and then to tell the LLM to use that library instead. | |
stavros wrote 17 hours 56 min ago: | |
I didn't realize this was so hard, thanks. I expected to be | |
simple positioning issues, but the LLMs all found it impossible. | |
Here's the game, BTW (requires multiple people in the same | |
location): | |
[1]: https://home.stavros.io/justone/ | |
M4v3R wrote 18 hours 15 min ago: | |
Browser text entry on mobile phones is notoriously hard to get | |
right and some bugs are literally unfixable [1]. I'm a frontend | |
developer in my day job and I struggled with this even before AI | |
was a thing. I think you just accidentally picked one of the | |
hardest tasks for the AI to do for you. [1] Example: | |
[1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/webdev/comments/xaksu6/on_ios_saf... | |
stavros wrote 18 hours 10 min ago: | |
Huh, that's actually my exact bug. I didn't realize this was so | |
hard, thank you. | |
mmastrac wrote 17 hours 52 min ago: | |
I have a reasonably good solution for this project of mine you | |
might find useful: [1] The trick for me was just using a hidden | |
input and updating the state of an in game input box. The code | |
is ancient by today's standards but uses a reasonably simple | |
technique to get the selection bounds of the text. | |
It works with auto complete on phones and has been stable for a | |
decade. | |
[1]: https://grack.com/demos/adventure/ | |
stavros wrote 17 hours 37 min ago: | |
That's promising, thank you! I'll ask the LLM to implement | |
it. | |
gametorch wrote 18 hours 26 min ago: | |
> what works best with AI-coding: a strong and thorough idea of | |
what you want, broken up into hundreds of smaller problems, with | |
specific architectural steers on the really critical pieces | |
This has worked extremely well for me. | |
garciasn wrote 16 hours 35 min ago: | |
I have been working on an end-to-end modeling solution for my day | |
job and I'm doing it entirely w/Claude. | |
I am on full-rework iteration three, learning as I go on what | |
works best, and this is definitely the way. I'm going to be | |
making a presentation to my team about how to use AI to | |
accelerate and extend their day-to-day for things like this and | |
here's my general outline: | |
1. Tell the LLM your overall goal and have it craft a thoughtful | |
product plan from start to finish. | |
2. Take that plan and tell it to break each of the parts into | |
many different parts that are well-planned and thoroughly | |
documented, and then tell it to give you a plan on how to best | |
execute it with LLMs. | |
3. Then go piece by piece, refining as you go. | |
The tool sets up an environment, gets the data from the | |
warehouse, models it, and visualizes it in great detail. It took | |
me about 22 hours of total time and roughly 2 hours of active | |
time. | |
It's beautiful, fast, and fully featured. I am honestly BLOWN | |
AWAY by what it did and I can't wait to see what others on my | |
team do w/this. We could have all done the setup, data ingestion, | |
and modeling, no question; the visualization platform it built | |
for me we absolutely could NOT have done w/the expertise we have | |
on staff--but the time it took? The first three pieces probably | |
were a few days of time, but the last part, I have no idea. | |
Weeks? Months? | |
Amazing. | |
stavros wrote 18 hours 22 min ago: | |
I wrote a whole PRD for this very simple idea, but still the bug | |
persisted, even though I started from scratch four times. | |
Granted, some had different bugs. | |
cootsnuck wrote 16 hours 23 min ago: | |
Have you tried with both Claude opus 4 and Gemini 2.5 pro? | |
stavros wrote 16 hours 20 min ago: | |
Opus 4, Sonnet 4, o3, o4-mini-high. | |
gametorch wrote 18 hours 4 min ago: | |
I guess sometimes I have to do some minor debugging myself. But | |
I really haven't encountered what you're experiencing. | |
Early on, I realized that you have to start a new "chat" after | |
so many messages or the LLM will become incoherent. I've found | |
that gpt-4.1 has a much lower threshold for this than o3. Maybe | |
that's affecting your workflow and you're not realizing it? | |
stavros wrote 18 hours 2 min ago: | |
No, that's why I started again, because it's a fairly simple | |
problem and I was worried that the context would get | |
saturated. A sibling commenter said that browser rendering | |
bugs on mobile are just too hard, which seems to be the case | |
here. | |
skybrian wrote 18 hours 47 min ago: | |
This is the first I've heard of Augment Code. What does it do? Why did | |
you pick that tool, versus alternatives? How well did it work for you? | |
Do you recommend it? | |
virgil_disgr4ce wrote 18 hours 39 min ago: | |
I'd also like to hear about thisâdid OP use Augment Code in Cursor? | |
How does that work/what exactly does that get you? Do you pay for | |
both? | |
M4v3R wrote 18 hours 31 min ago: | |
I've heard about Augment Code on X and what piqued my interest was | |
their "context engine" which is a fancy way of saying they have a | |
way of navigating big codebases and providing enough context for | |
their LLM to execute your query. It worked really well on a | |
medium-sized codebase in my day job where other agents would fail. | |
It's a VS Code extension so I'm using it inside Cursor and | |
depending on a task I would either use Cursor's Agent mode (for | |
simpler, more constrained tasks) or Augment Code's (for tasks that | |
span multiple files and are more vague and/or require more steps to | |
finish). | |
There are downsides though - it's more expensive than Cursor ($50 | |
vs $20 per month) and it can be unreliable - I'm frequently getting | |
errors/timeouts that require hitting "Try again" manually, which is | |
frustrating. I might switch to Claude Code after my plan runs out | |
because I've heard many good things about it recently. | |
lvl155 wrote 18 hours 48 min ago: | |
Part of me thinks Rockstar delayed the release of GTA 6 because they | |
realized they can polish the game by a significant margin using the | |
latest AI tools. | |
Brajeshwar wrote 18 hours 51 min ago: | |
Yours is beautiful; the code is too. I'm sure you had a lot more hand | |
than just using AI. | |
I stopped coding a long time ago. Recently, after a few friends | |
insisted on trying out AI-Assistance codes and I tinkered. And all I | |
came up was a Bubble Wrap popper, and a silencer. :-) [1] | |
[1]: https://bubble-pop.oinam.com | |
[2]: https://void.oinam.com | |
mordechai9000 wrote 14 hours 35 min ago: | |
Running chrome on android and the bubbles aren't popping for me. | |
Count is staying at zero. Are you open to PRs? :-) | |
Brajeshwar wrote 23 min ago: | |
Yes Please. Absolutely. Feel free to send in any edits. | |
[1]: https://github.com/oinam/bubble-pop | |
freehorse wrote 18 hours 56 min ago: | |
A bug in the intro: in the first round in the first playthrough my | |
turret destroyed one of the critter and the other reached the tower. | |
There was no other prompt or anything happening in the game after that | |
and had to restart. The next time, the turret did not destroy any | |
critter, the prompt to use backspace appeared and the game progressed | |
normally. | |
M4v3R wrote 18 hours 50 min ago: | |
Interesting, I actually had the turret destroy one of the enemies | |
several time but it didn't prevent the tutorial message from showing | |
up. I'll look into it though, thanks for the report! | |
laurent_du wrote 20 hours 6 min ago: | |
Very cool and I wish it lasted longer. | |
HNArg024 wrote 20 hours 9 min ago: | |
Great game! The rewind time "skill" it's like playing an Edge of | |
Tomorrow game | |
mgdev wrote 20 hours 14 min ago: | |
This is awesome. I've been in software for 20+ years now as well. | |
One thing I've noticed is many (most?) people in our cohort are very | |
skeptical of AI coding (or simply aren't paying attention). | |
I recently developed a large-ish app (~34k SLOC) primarily using AI. My | |
impression is the leverage you get out of it is exponentially | |
proportional to the quality of your instructions, the structure of your | |
interactions, and the amount of attention you pay to the outputs (e.g. | |
for course-correction). | |
"Just like every other tool!" | |
The difference is the specific leverage is 10x any other "10x" tool | |
I've encountered so far. So, just like every tool, only more so. | |
I think what most skeptics miss is that we shouldn't treat these as | |
external things. If you attempt to wholly delegate some task with a | |
poorly-specified description of the intended outcome, you're gonna have | |
a bad time. There may be a day when these things can read our minds, | |
but it's not today. What it CAN do is help you clarify your thinking, | |
teach you new things, and blast through some of the drudgery. To get | |
max leverage, we need to integrate them into our own cognitive loops. | |
majormajor wrote 17 hours 5 min ago: | |
> The difference is the specific leverage is 10x any other "10x" tool | |
I've encountered so far. So, just like every tool, only more so. | |
One of the best comparisons to me is languages. | |
The old "lisp [or whatever] lets us do more, faster" idea, but with a | |
fun twist where if you can reduce the code you write but still end up | |
with generated code in a fast, high-performance language, without the | |
extra work you would have to do to go add type annotations or whatnot | |
everywhere for SBCL. | |
But with a gotcha that you are gonna have to do a lot of | |
double-checking on some of the less-easily/obviously-verified parts | |
of the generated code for certain type of work. | |
And of course highly-expressive languages have resulted in no small | |
number of messy, unmaintainable codebases being built by people | |
without well-specified advance plans. So we're gonna see a lot of | |
those, still. | |
BUT to me the real, even bigger win - because I spend less time | |
writing 100% new code than integrating old and new, or trying to | |
improve old code/make it suit new purposes, is supercharged | |
debugging. A debugger is a huge improvement over print statements | |
everywhere for many types of things. A machine that you can | |
copy-paste a block of code into, and say "the output looks like | |
[this] instead of like [that], what's going on" and get a fresh set | |
of eyes to quickly give you some generally-good suggestions is a huge | |
improvement over the status quo for a lot of other things as well. | |
Especially the type of things that are hard to attach a debugger to | |
(sql, "infrastructure as code", build scripts, etc, just to start). | |
cgriswald wrote 19 hours 4 min ago: | |
This post was interesting to me because I also have a lot of | |
programming experience but other than hunt the wumpus high school I | |
havenât programmed a game and recently started using AI to help | |
with a new game. | |
AI has become three things for me: | |
(1) A learning tool. What it is really great at is understanding my | |
questions when I donât have the proper terminology. Because of this | |
it can give me a starting point for answers. It is also really | |
fantastic for exposing me to unknown unknowns; probably the most | |
important thing it does for me. | |
(2) A tool to do boring or tedious things that I can do but slow me | |
down. Iâve found it good enough at a variety of things like | |
commenting code, writing a config file (that I usually edit), or | |
other text-based adventures. | |
(3) Search. Just like (1), because it understands what Iâm actually | |
after, it is irrelevant if I know what a thing is actually called. I | |
also let it filter things for me, make recommendations, etc. | |
I think you can let it think for you, but⦠why would you? Itâs | |
not as smart as you. Itâs just faster and knows more things. Itâs | |
like an FPU for the CPU of your brain. | |
roenxi wrote 19 hours 14 min ago: | |
> One thing I've noticed is many (most?) people in our cohort are | |
very skeptical of AI coding (or simply aren't paying attention). | |
I'd hope most devs are using AI heavily when coding, the last 6 | |
months seem to have reached a level of competence in raw programming | |
skill somewhere around mid- or senior- level with hilarious variance | |
between brilliance and idiocy. | |
I think you might be seeing the most vocal programmers are terrified | |
for their future prospects and there isn't much room to reason with | |
them so they're let alone. | |
AnotherGoodName wrote 19 hours 34 min ago: | |
I've come to this same conclusion pretty strongly in the past few | |
months in particular. I actually had negative comments on my | |
experience with AI previously. | |
For all the talk of AI hitting a ceiling the latest tools have | |
improved greatly. I'm literally doing things in hours that'd | |
previously take weeks with little issue. I do of course have to think | |
about the prompts and break it down to a fine grained level and i | |
also have the AI integrated well with the IDE. | |
The biggest wins are the times you hit a new framework/library. | |
Traditionally you'd go through the 'search for code samples on usage | |
of new library/language/framework -> work those samples into a form | |
that accomplishes your task' cycle. AI is much better for this to the | |
extent it even often surprises me. "Oh the library has a more | |
straightforward way to accomplish X than i thought!". | |
For those who are still skeptical it's time to try it again. | |
aprilthird2021 wrote 17 hours 5 min ago: | |
> I'm literally doing things in hours that'd previously take weeks | |
with little issue. | |
What's an example of this? Some of the ones I see most are: | |
converting legacy code to something modern, building a greenfield | |
app or feature in an unfamiliar language / framework / space. | |
But at work I don't have these types of jobs, and I want to get | |
this productivity speed up, but right now I'm stuck at it helps a | |
lot but not turning weeks of work into hours, so trying to get | |
there | |
AnotherGoodName wrote 16 hours 32 min ago: | |
I recently had a need to create educational animations. These | |
were programmatically created using the Manim library in Python. | |
I'm a mobile dev by trade. The best interaction i had recently | |
was with Python and the Manim library specifically which are not | |
my area of expertise. This was a series of "Create an animation | |
that shows X with a graph of the result over variables Y". AI | |
gave a one shot successful results with good coding practices for | |
all of this. I could have spent a week coming up to speed on that | |
library and re-remembering all the Python syntax or i could have | |
fought against doing it at all but instead, one hour of | |
prompting, "here it is boss, done". | |
I had similar results doing some updates to the app itself too | |
fwiw. Android dev has a lot of boilerplate. "Create a new screen | |
to show a list of images in a recycler view". Everyone who's done | |
Android knows the boilerplate involved in what i just stated. | |
Again 1 shot results. Unlike the above this is something i know | |
how to do well, i just didn't want to type 100's of lines of | |
boilerplate. | |
aprilthird2021 wrote 15 hours 38 min ago: | |
Would that have taken you weeks though? | |
I imagine reading through a few articles and examples could | |
have gotten you there. I never heard of Manim before but found | |
these pretty quickly: [1] [2] I am not trying to pick at you, | |
but it feels like what I am currently able to do with AI, shave | |
off a few hours, but not weeks. | |
I agree with you the ease of cutting through boilerplate is a | |
big win, but it also doesn't register as weeks worth of work | |
for me... | |
[1]: https://docs.manim.community/en/stable/examples.html | |
[2]: https://manimclass.com/plot-a-function-in-manim/ | |
AnotherGoodName wrote 15 hours 15 min ago: | |
A single graph might save hours. A full feature series where | |
each graph type has yet new syntax to learn is indeed much | |
more. Especially when there's followups, "let's make the | |
graph move over the left half of the screen and then the next | |
animation shows in the right half?" which again were one shot | |
done in minutes with AI. For me just to gain the context of | |
how to move the animation into the left half smoothly and | |
then move all animations that were drawn into a separate | |
animation file into this file and reposition each element | |
from that second file into the right half of the screen would | |
have probably taken a day. | |
We tend to underestimate engineering time generally. So i | |
wouldn't look at the above and say "that seems doable in X | |
hours". I stand strongly by my assertion that it saved me a | |
week (at least!) all up. | |
skaisbzbsn wrote 18 hours 57 min ago: | |
> I do of course have to think about the prompts and break it down | |
to a fine grained level | |
This is where Iâve found usefulness falling off. Code is much | |
more succinct and exact than English. I was never slowed down by | |
how fast I could type (and maybe some are? Iâve watched people | |
finger type and use the mouse excessively) but by how fast I could | |
understand the existing systems. By the time I could write an | |
expressive prompt in English I might as well have made the changes | |
myself. | |
Iâve found it enormously useful as google on steroids or as a | |
translator (which many changes that require code often end up | |
being). | |
golergka wrote 7 hours 17 min ago: | |
> This is where Iâve found usefulness falling off. Code is much | |
more succinct and exact than English. | |
Depends on how you use English. If you describe all the details | |
down to the last line of requirements â then, yeah. But | |
actually, a lot of requirements are typical and can be compressed | |
to things like "make a configuration page following this config | |
type" and LLM will figure it out and put checkboxes for booleans, | |
drop-downs for enums, and all the boilerplate that goes with | |
them. Sometimes you have to correct this output, but it's still | |
much faster than describing the whole thing. | |
jpcom wrote 18 hours 58 min ago: | |
Which IDE are you using? | |
AnotherGoodName wrote 18 hours 48 min ago: | |
The jetbrains collection which now have claud built in with a | |
subscription option. | |
qsort wrote 20 hours 0 min ago: | |
I commented on this before, I'm in this weird "opinion arbitrage" | |
spot where I'm relatively skeptical by HN standards but I'm actually | |
pushing for more usage at work. Hell, I'm typing this while I wait | |
for Claude to be done. | |
The reason for my skepticism is the delta between what they're being | |
sold as and what they actually do. All AI solutions, including agents | |
(especially agents!), are effectively worse-than-worthless without | |
guidance from someone experienced. There's very little that's | |
"autonomous" about them, in fact. | |
The very guy who coined the term "vibe coding" went on stage | |
effectively saying we're putting the carriage before the horse! | |
Omitting the important caveat that while they are fantastic tools | |
they need to be restrained a lot is effectively lying. | |
mumbisChungo wrote 14 hours 2 min ago: | |
It's the same problem that crypto experiences. Almost everyone is | |
propagating lies about the technology, even if a majority of those | |
doing so don't understand enough to realize they're lies. | |
I'd argue there's more intentional lying in crypto and less value | |
to be gained, but in both cases people who might derive real | |
benefit from the hard truth of the matter are turning away before | |
they enter the door due to dishonesty/misrepresentation. | |
zacharycohn wrote 16 hours 57 min ago: | |
My stance has long been that LLMs are currently worse than the | |
evangelists are claiming they are, but are significantly better | |
than the detractors and skeptics think they are. | |
Like most things, the truth is somewhere in the middle. But unlike | |
many things, they are changing and advancing rapidly, so it's | |
current state is not the resting state. | |
kordlessagain wrote 19 hours 55 min ago: | |
My opinion is that it's about the tools you use. Bad tools, bad | |
agentic behavior. | |
sitkack wrote 19 hours 8 min ago: | |
Better spoons, better food. | |
brookst wrote 18 hours 54 min ago: | |
Spoons are tools you use to consume food; a better analogy | |
would be better kitchen, better food. An induction range, | |
quality good, nice pans, nice knives will definitely enable | |
higher quality food. Of course you can still make crap if you | |
donât know what youâre doing, the point is that the tools | |
raise the ceiling for someone who does know what theyâre | |
doing. | |
prairieroadent wrote 10 hours 23 min ago: | |
one level deeper... better farm (soil, water, .etc), better | |
food... also you can easily ruin food in a top-of-the-line | |
kitchen by over-processing, adding tainted spices, excessive | |
heat, .etc | |
squidbeak wrote 19 hours 6 min ago: | |
Owners of silver spoons tend to eat pretty well. | |
danielbln wrote 20 hours 6 min ago: | |
In addition, there is a learning curve and a skill ceiling that is | |
deceptively higher than people think. Also, running Claude Opus in | |
some tight agentic harness will give very different results than | |
asking GPT-4o in the browser and copy/pasting stuff around. | |
M4v3R wrote 20 hours 10 min ago: | |
> the leverage you get out of it is exponentially proportional to the | |
quality of your instructions, the structure of your interactions, and | |
the amount of attention you pay to the outputs | |
Couldn't say it better myself. I think many people get discouraged | |
when they don't get good results without realizing that for good | |
results you need to learn how to interact with these AI agents, it's | |
a skill that you can improve by using them a lot. Also some AI tools | |
are just better than others for certain use cases, you need to find | |
one that works best with what you're doing. | |
When it finally clicks for you and you realize how much value you can | |
extract from these tools there's literally no coming back. | |
imiric wrote 11 hours 55 min ago: | |
It's not about learning how to interact with AI agents. The only | |
required skills for working with these tools are basic reading and | |
writing skills any decent English speaker would have. Knowing how | |
and when to provide additional context and breaking down problems | |
into incremental steps are common workflows within teams, not | |
something novel or unique to LLMs. | |
"Prompt" or "context engineering" is what grifters claim they can | |
teach for a fee. | |
What does make a difference is what has been obvious since the | |
advent of LLMs: domain experts get the most out of them. LLMs can | |
be coaxed into generating almost any thinkable output, as long as | |
they're prompted for it. Only experts will know precisely what to | |
ask for, what not to ask for, and whether or not the output aligns | |
with their expectations. Everyone else is winging it, and their | |
results will always be of inferior quality, until and if these | |
tools improve significantly. | |
What's dubious to me is whether experts really gain much from using | |
LLMs. They're already good at their job. How valuable is it to use | |
a tool that can automate the mechanical parts of what they do, | |
while leaving them with larger tasks like ensuring that the output | |
is actually correct? In the context of programming, it's like | |
pairing up with a junior developer in the driver seat who can type | |
really quickly, but will confidently make mistakes or will blindly | |
agree with anything you say. At a certain point it becomes less | |
frustrating and even faster to type at normal human speeds using | |
boring old tools yourself. | |
dragonwriter wrote 11 hours 50 min ago: | |
> It's not about learning how to interact with AI agents. The | |
only required skills for working with these tools are basic | |
reading and writing skills any decent English speaker would have. | |
This is flatly untrue, just as the same would be untrue about | |
getting the most out of people (but the behavioral quirks of AI | |
systems and the ways to deal with them do not follow human | |
psychology, so while it is inaccurate in the same way as with | |
people, the skills needed are almost entirely unrelated.) | |
hnaccount_rng wrote 20 hours 31 min ago: | |
How many tokens did you use up and what did you pay for them? | |
M4v3R wrote 20 hours 18 min ago: | |
I can't give you the token count because I didn't really track that | |
(Augment Code does not give you detailed token stats) and I'm not | |
paying per token - I use the Developer plan on Augment Code ($50/mo) | |
and Pro plan on Cursor ($20/mo). Didn't pay for additional usage and | |
I have requests to spare on both of them. | |
As far as stats go from the provider dashboards I see: | |
- 7667 lines of Agent Edits accepted on Cursor | |
- 105 messages (prompts) on Augment Code | |
bix6 wrote 20 hours 32 min ago: | |
Excited to try this when Iâm on a computer. Thanks for sharing | |
everything! | |
edgarneto wrote 21 hours 1 min ago: | |
This is a pretty cool game! I love the twists of rewinding time and | |
playing with the keyboard. It would look pretty cool on Reddit, with a | |
level builder. Redditors could build levels to challenge each other and | |
see who can reach a highscore on each of the UGC levels. Check out | |
Flappy Goose and Build It on Reddit to see some examples. | |
M4v3R wrote 20 hours 13 min ago: | |
Thanks! The game actually supports gamepads too but I didn't have | |
enough time to put in proper instructions for that. | |
<- back to front page |