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lite.cnn.com - on gopher - inofficial | |
ARTICLE VIEW: | |
What to know about RFK Jr., the MAHA movement and vaccines in a pivotal | |
week | |
Analysis by Zachary B. Wolf, CNN | |
Updated: | |
6:00 AM EDT, Tue September 16, 2025 | |
Source: CNN | |
Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr.’s campaign | |
to change how US children are vaccinated against serious diseases faces | |
multiple major tests this week. | |
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention director he ousted last | |
month, Dr. Susan Monarez, will about her abrupt firing and her | |
allegation that he is undercutting vaccine standards. | |
Separately, a key Kennedy reconstituted with his own picks —some of | |
whom have made unproven claims about vaccines — will hold a meeting | |
that could lead to drastic changes in vaccine recommendations. | |
For all the questions raised about , he maintains some broad bipartisan | |
support for his Make America Healthy Again efforts to change the way | |
Americans eat. | |
I spoke with CNN health policy and politics reporter about the | |
dichotomy of Kennedy and what to expect from this week. | |
Our conversation, conducted by telephone and edited for length, is | |
below. | |
What is MAHA? | |
WOLF: Kennedy’s agenda is MAHA – Make America Healthy Again. What | |
does that mean in practice? | |
OWERMOHLE: While the MAHA agenda is this huge tent of different people | |
coming in with different priorities, I would put it into three buckets: | |
food, pharmaceuticals and the environment. | |
On the food part, Kennedy has spearheaded calls to phase out artificial | |
dyes, crack down on ultraprocessed foods, improve school lunches and | |
improve SNAP, our food stamp program. That’s the most popular and | |
approachable part of this. | |
Then there’s the pharmaceuticals and vaccine side. I think a lot of | |
people associate Kennedy most with the anti-vaccine rhetoric. He’s | |
been very active on questioning whether certain vaccines are safe and | |
whether children especially should be required to have them. | |
And then there’s the environmental side, which is another one that is | |
divisive. He was an environmental lawyer for a long time before | |
pivoting to MAHA, this broader idea that all of these factors are | |
causing the rise in chronic disease. | |
I don’t know how many people know that, but before this, he was a | |
lawyer. He was part of the legal team that won a huge for a man who had | |
terminal cancer. | |
That third leg is this idea that there’s all these things we’re | |
exposed to in the environment —from to forever plastics — that he | |
wants to take a harder look at. | |
The issue with that third part is that’s not under his purview as HHS | |
secretary. | |
Kennedy’s moves on vaccines | |
WOLF: What are the specific things he’s done with regard to vaccines | |
that have public health experts so worried? | |
OWERMOHLE: Dismissing an advisory panel, CDC’s , this June. These are | |
experts who advise CDC on who should get vaccines and when they should | |
get them, and CDC generally takes up what that panel recommends — he | |
dismissed all those people, and pretty soon after replaced them with | |
his , many of whom have made critical remarks in the past, questioning | |
the safety of Covid-19 vaccines, MMR vaccines, hepatitis B vaccines. | |
That new panel is set to convene this week to talk about those three | |
vaccines. | |
What recommendations they make there, especially since now Kennedy has | |
and has installed his deputy there, could have real ramifications for | |
access to those vaccines. | |
One of the most significant things that has happened so far under his | |
tenure has been the . The FDA and CDC made changes that essentially | |
mean that you and me, as healthy people, cannot go into a pharmacy to | |
get them. Even though the eligibility is now 65 and up, our parents | |
might still have to go to the doctor’s office. | |
We’re finding out from reporting that some of our colleagues have | |
done that a lot of doctors are not stocking these vaccines. There’s | |
ton of confusion about, if I did want to get a Covid-19 booster shot, | |
could I get it? And how could I get it? | |
In terms of his , Kennedy has talked about reassessing how many people | |
have been injured by vaccines and whether they should be compensated | |
for those injuries. He talks about making the childhood vaccine | |
schedule the most ideal it can be for children, which a lot of people | |
interpret to mean reducing the amount of vaccines that children get in | |
first six months to few years of their life. | |
I think the end goal here, he really laid out in the that came out last | |
week. In the part under vaccines, they wrote that this is about | |
ensuring medical freedom. I think that’s the overall ethos here. What | |
he would tell you, if he was in front of you right now, is, “I’m | |
not trying to take away your vaccines. I’m just trying to give people | |
a choice about vaccines.” | |
Kennedy wants to reexamine legal immunity for vaccine producers | |
WOLF: A lot of people probably don’t know there already is a federal | |
system – the —to compensate the very small minority of people who | |
suffer serious side effects from vaccines. Does he want to expand that | |
or change it, or has he even talked about, has he gotten that specific? | |
OWERMOHLE: He has gotten pretty specific about that, the . He believes | |
it is too narrow a system that ignores a lot of the claims that people | |
make, or reviews them in a biased way. | |
One of his big targets is the idea that vaccine manufacturers are | |
shielded from liabilities in a lot of circumstances. | |
This is a parallel to the pesticides issue. MAHA people have also | |
railed against the idea that pesticide manufacturers could possibly get | |
these same sort of liability shields in legislation that’s in | |
Congress right now, and he hasn’t weighed in on that, but the very | |
same thing liability shields that they rail against with vaccine | |
manufacturers could happen for pesticide manufacturers. | |
There’s already a system to detect issues with vaccines. Kennedy is | |
changing it. | |
WOLF: What does the evidence actually say about the number of people | |
injured by vaccines? | |
OWERMOHLE: There are two different ways that we track that. The FDA has | |
the Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System, which is a self-reporting | |
system. So if I went in and I fainted, or something more serious | |
happened, myocarditis or something like that, I could report myself | |
into the system. | |
Then there’s a Vaccine Safety Datalink, which is this huge repository | |
of different health systems and patient records. That’s not a | |
self-reporting system. That’s an overview of everybody in the system. | |
If certain unusual things start to pop up, like myocarditis — is this | |
linked to a vaccine or to something else? | |
We already have these two reporting systems, and what we know from | |
those is that serious injuries, serious side effects, are exceedingly | |
low from vaccines. What Kennedy has argued is that the people who are | |
reviewing that data are not giving us the full extent of it, | |
essentially, and that there are flaws in the way that these are being | |
reported and analyzed. | |
Kennedy made assurances to get confirmed. Has he kept his word? | |
WOLF: Kennedy made some pretty clear promises to Sen. Bill Cassidy, the | |
Louisiana Republican, who is a medical doctor and chair of the Senate | |
Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions Committee. Has Kennedy done | |
anything specifically to violate those assurances that he made? | |
OWERMOHLE: It would depend on who you ask. Sen. Cassidy had a pretty | |
lengthy list of things that he said he got assurances on. | |
One was that they would closely collaborate and talk all the time. I do | |
think that they talk fairly often. From what I have heard, even from | |
Sen. Cassidy, when certain things have happened, he has said, you know, | |
“I spoke to the secretary about this.” Cassidy has said Kennedy | |
would ask for his input into hiring decisions, that he would work | |
within the vaccine approval process and not create like his own | |
parallel processes. | |
Importantly, the two things that everyone that everyone’s watching, | |
though, are: | |
WOLF: Hep B, specifically? | |
OVERMOHLE: That was just an example, but I think as we go into that | |
committee’s meeting, if they recommend things that change the | |
recommendations for longtime, widely used vaccines, that that could be | |
the red line that actually breaks the promise to Cassidy. | |
Will Cassidy turn on Kennedy? | |
WOLF: I suppose if you keep the system but fire everybody on the | |
advisory panel, you have not changed the system, but you’ve changed | |
how it is going to operate. | |
OVERMOHLE: Exactly. That’s why it’s up to interpretation whether | |
Kennedy has broken a promise to Cassidy. I think Cassidy is in quite a | |
bind now, because he’s the chair of the HELP Committee, and they are | |
going to have a hearing with Dr. Susan Monarez, which will be | |
interesting to see how Cassidy navigates it. But he has the authority | |
to bring Kennedy in front of him again and ask, “Are you breaking | |
your promises?” He hasn’t done that yet, and he’s avoided | |
questions about whether he’s going to. | |
WOLF: He has not turned on Kennedy. | |
OWERMOHLE: Notably, no, he hasn’t. MAHA voters have expressed | |
long-term frustration with Cassidy. He’s up for reelection next year. | |
I think he’s in a politically tenuous position, and he’s trying to | |
navigate how to keep people happy but also not go back on what he said | |
he would do. | |
What about food dyes? | |
WOLF: Part of what he wants to do, like , when you hear him talk, it | |
sounds very much like he would mandate these things. But nothing that | |
he’s done so far would be any sort of requirement for food companies. | |
He’s not taking a more collaborative approach. How is he influencing | |
food companies? | |
OWERMOHLE: One of the funny things to me is he put out this plan, or | |
the FDA did under his leadership, to phase out There were two that they | |
wanted out of all food by 2026, and others had a longer runway. And | |
that starts this wave of companies being like, “Well, we’re going | |
to do this. We already have a plan.” They had this event in front of | |
USDA where they celebrated with ice cream companies. And the whole big | |
announcement was that the ice cream companies were going to phase these | |
out by 2028. OK, so they bought themselves two years by holding an | |
event. Is that a win? I don’t know, but it’s mostly been | |
voluntelling people to “do this, and then we won’t crack down on | |
you.” | |
The Kennedy conundrum | |
WOLF: The conundrum of Kennedy is that he’s pushing for these popular | |
things. I think everybody would love to see dyes out of these | |
ultraprocessed foods. At the same time, he’s doing things that are | |
genuinely scary to public health professionals. How do you separate | |
those two tracks of his agenda? Or should we separate them? | |
OWERMOHLE: That’s the most interesting part of this whole MAHA phase. | |
There’s such a wide coalition of people. It brings in all these | |
different people who are motivated by maybe one thing to start, and | |
then they get into the others or they resent the others for taking more | |
attention from the priority that they have. | |
The food and nutrition work is definitely some of the most bipartisan | |
and broadly popular that you’ll see. Some people that I’ve talked | |
to from that corner of the movement have expressed frustration about | |
the vaccine rhetoric and worry that it’s distracting from or | |
discrediting the food and nutrition motivations, or leading people not | |
to take Kennedy so seriously. | |
The focus on vaccines might surprise anyone who saw his confirmation | |
hearing | |
WOLF: He has focused on vaccines to a degree that his confirmation | |
hearing suggested that he would not. Is that right? | |
OWERMOHLE: Absolutely. He is focused most strongly in terms of actions | |
at HHS on vaccines. We were just talking about the food aspect, where | |
they’re asking companies to be proactive in this arena. But they have | |
changed vaccine policies. They have changed Covid-19 vaccine labels. | |
There’s real action there, and there hasn’t been real action so | |
much in food. | |
Democrats especially are struggling with that question of, “do we | |
separate these tracks or take MAHA as a whole?” Because the food | |
aspect, there’s a lot of bipartisan support for that. And then | |
there’s the whole environmental thing, going back to pesticides and | |
forever plastics. That has traditionally been a Democratic priority, | |
and that’s been an area where they probably could work with MAHA | |
people if they could stomach the rest of this. | |
What does Kennedy mean by “interventions” and autism? | |
WOLF: When Kennedy says “interventions” will be shown to be the | |
cause of autism, what does he mean by that? Is that a phrase that has | |
been commonly used, or did it catch people off-guard? | |
OWERMOHLE: The use of the word “intervention” caught me a little | |
bit by surprise, because medically, the word intervention means a | |
treatment or therapy. The first thing I would think of if I heard the | |
word “intervention” would have been a pharmaceutical drug, maybe | |
even more a drug than a vaccine He could have been using it more | |
broadly. He could have been referring to environmental toxins, but | |
that’s not quite a medical intervention. | |
These last few weeks, there has been some swirling about . Tylenol | |
would be something that a doctor would tell you is an intervention. | |
It’s a pain intervention. So is that what he was referring to? | |
SSRIs (antidepressants) have been a really big focal point for him, and | |
the potential risks that he sees there. Those are interventions. With | |
that comment, he expanded it beyond vaccines. | |
Is this like Michelle Obama’s “Let’s Move”? | |
WOLF: Back to food. The last person who launched a public effort to get | |
people to eat healthier was then-first lady . But she ran into a lot of | |
opposition on the right, particularly with school lunches. What’s the | |
difference between her plan 15 years ago and Kennedy’s plan today? | |
OWERMOHLE: There really are not that many differences. Her plan maybe | |
wasn’t quite as ambitious in the things it was going to tackle. But | |
they are remarkably similar, down to how they started. Michelle Obama | |
started by working with brands to say, “Can you improve your food | |
labels, and can you reduce fat and sugar in school foods?” Brands | |
were proactively doing that just the way that things are happening with | |
Kennedy and these brands right now. Exact same thing. | |
Hers started to get that Republican backlash once regulatory action | |
started. There was this 2010 law that imposed new federal standards for | |
milk and whole grains and sodium in school lunches. And that’s really | |
when the rhetoric around her “Let’s Move” initiative kicked into | |
overdrive. | |
There have been lots of subsequent Republican efforts to soften those | |
standards, even as recently as 2018. In the first Trump administration, | |
Sonny Perdue, the USDA secretary, tried to roll back that standard, | |
even though it was it was . It speaks to how this has changed | |
politically, but I also think it speaks to the appeal that Kennedy has | |
had to bring all these different people into the fold with him and make | |
this now a Republican priority. It’s also a reminder that Kennedy was | |
a Democrat. | |
WOLF: He’s also a celebrity. Have we ever had a celebrity HHS | |
secretary before? (No offense to Kathleen Sebelius, Tom Price, Alex | |
Azar or Xavier Becerra.) | |
This is a part of the government that has such great importance, but | |
having Kennedy there has actually upped its profile. | |
OWERMOHLE: It’s so true. He’s definitely the most high-profile HHS | |
secretary in recent history, maybe ever. When I talk to MAHA voters, | |
they say that they won Trump the presidency. Whether or not that’s | |
true, that’s what they believe. And they will tell you they’re not | |
loyal to a political party; they’re loyal to Kennedy. I can’t think | |
of another Cabinet secretary that has that type of pull in any | |
administration. | |
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