Subj : Re: Angels and demons
To : Boraxman
From : jimmylogan
Date : Tue May 27 2025 08:29 am
-=> Boraxman wrote to jimmylogan <=-
ji> Foreknowledge is NOT the say as predestination. If God
ji> DECIDED for us, we would have no choice. But He doesn't
ji> decide for us, but He does KNOW what we are going to
ji> choose.
Bo> This is a problem that is discussed in physics as well, whether the
Bo> universe is deterministic and whether a deternistic universe allows
Bo> free will.
By deterministic, do you mean that things are set in motion
and will unfold based purely on cause and effect -
no intelligent intervention?
Bo> Foreknowledge does mean that your choice is set, before it is made,
Bo> before it is considered. If I know that you are going to eat Corn
Bo> Flakes for breakfast on the 30th of January, 2027, then it removes the
Bo> possibility of you making any decision which does not result in you
Bo> eating those Corn Flakes. Foreknowledge of every event, removes every
Bo> possibility. There is only one possibility, the future that is known.
You said: "Foreknowledge removes all other possibilities." But I
see it the other way around. You only know I'll eat Corn Flakes
because I chose to. If I suddenly decide on Raisin Bran instead,
then your foreknowledge would reflect that. Your knowing is a
result of my choice - not the cause of it.
Bo> It still is reasonable to act as if we have choices, after all, our
Bo> choices are influenced by what happens to us, but this creates a bit
Bo> of a conundrum. If we indeed only have one path, who set that path?
That's the key for me. God's foreknowledge doesn't erase our
free will - it just means He already sees the outcome. There's
still a genuine decision being made, from our point of view
inside time.
So when you ask: "If there's only one path, who set it?" I'd say:
no one sets it in the sense of forcing it. It's just that God,
being outside of time, already sees the whole path we'll choose.
You and I don't have this perspective. We live moment by moment.
We don't even know what we'll decide tomorrow (or if we'll even
be here). But just because God knows our future decisions
doesn't mean He causes them.
Bo> For us mere mortals, we can attribute responsibility to each other,
Bo> because there is not other candidate. But if a Deity was the first
Bo> Prime Mover, then responsibility lies there. Then we have
Bo> predestination.
So on that final point, I will respectfully disagree. :-)
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