Subj : Re: Most memorable modern
To : Jimmy Anderson
From : Boraxman
Date : Mon May 12 2025 06:30 pm
-=> Jimmy Anderson wrote to Boraxman <=-
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JA> @REPLY: <
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-=> Boraxman wrote to Jimmy Anderson <=-
Bo> Actully, this idea that we could unite, is a particularly Western
Bo> idea, probably British. See, *we* assume that. Because we are
Bo> projecting our values system onto the rest of the world. We believe
Bo> there can be universal values, that we can share, but really, this is
Bo> us projecting our own *parochial* values.
JA> Yep - when we are the ones that are 'right,' it's easy to see that the
JA> rest should follow along. :-)
Bo> See, this idea is us
Bo> pushing OUR values onto the rest of the world! So for the world to
Bo> "unite", it actually means they must accept and subscribe to OUR
Bo> values at the expense of theirs.
JA> Or another set of values, that is not made known yet.
I don't think there is a universal set of values. There are beliefs
that there are, but such a think I think doesn't exist.
Bo> Western arrogance just assumes the
Bo> rest of the world will see the supremacy of *our* ideas and follow
Bo> *our* path. Universal ethics is a predominantly Western invention,
Bo> with some elements in Abrahamic religion. Islam does have something
Bo> like this (hence the clash, but much of the rest of the world doesn't.
Bo> Their values system doesn't work that way.
JA> If enough countries give up their soverign nature, though, it could
JA> still happen. If America stops being "America first," for example, we
JA> could easily shift to a European set of ideals, or Germanic, etc.
I'm pretty confident that non-Western nations have no desire to do that,
because they do not consider it a "virtue" to subsume your national
identity.
Bo> Hence why it was alway a pipedream, and why this
experiment will end
Bo> in tears. Its a vision that never really will
exist outside of the Bo> Anglosphere, because its a specifically
Anglosphere idea, with some of Bo> Europe kind of half heartedly
following the lead.
JA> Gonna disagree. :-) The Bible prophecies say it will happen, so I
JA> believe
JA> it WILL happen. Exactly how is not stated, just that the Antichrist
JA> will
JA> be the world leader. For him to be a one world leader there has to be
JA> a one world joining.
I can't see who that would be. China for example doesn't want to run the
orld.
Russia doesn't. I've heard this prophecy before, but there are no candidates.
Bo> In short, what Captain Kirk was saying, was essentially only going to
Bo> work, if we could be culturally imperialistic enough to force our
Bo> Western values on the rest of the world, which paradoxically, only
Bo> works if you are NOT tolerant of other beliefs! (which leads to
Bo> resentment and conflict).
JA> Which means, as you say, ONE BELIEF system will have to trump the
JA> others. Chritianity says Jesus is the ONLY way to God; Jews believe
JA> He was a fake; Muslims have another way to God; people into spiritulism
JA> believe something else; etc.
JA> ALL religions can come under one umbrella ONLY if they give up their
JA> own beliefs, which could very well be what eventually happens...
I'll put forward my position then, that I predict that the "One World" vision
will fall apart and that there will be rising nationalism with a decrepit
"empire" that tries to maintain control. The 21st century will see more
sectarianism, more violence and identity politics and the powers that be will
desperately try to demonise it, but eventually lose due to the flaws in their
belief system.
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