Subj : Re: Most memorable modern
To : Boraxman
From : Arelor
Date : Mon May 05 2025 09:06 am
Re: Re: Most memorable modern
By: Boraxman to Snobsoft on Mon May 05 2025 08:37 am
> I say this because an "open society" cannot be free. A "welcome culture"
> cannot
> be free. You want a pluralistic society AND be free? That is the error.
> Germany is cooked. Are you willing to exert a German identity, and put it
> as supreme over the others? No. Well, welcome to hell.
>
I think this is a matter of the point of view as who gets to be free under which circumsptances.
In post 1950's fascist Spain, people were de-facto more free than they are today - nobody was required to ask permission to have horses and hens, you weren't supposed to report everything you do as you are today - but only if you were, shall we say, Spanish-normative.
Which basically means if you were a working heterosexual non-communist Spaniard you were good to go and the only right you missed was critizising the Party in the open. Lacking the power to citizise Franco in the open is a big one for me, but I would trade the right to critizise the government for the right not to be accountable for every decision I take in my life in a heartbeat. If I were gay I would think different.
I think I have already mentioned that people who like pluralistic open for all cultures do so because they imagine they will be welcoming people that are largely compatible with their views, or who can be evangelized and adapted to the local ways. The problem is people is not going to abbandon their ideas and morals just because they are on your soil. Can you imagine how successful would the population of a pro- female genital mutilation society be in changing your views if you moved there? Newsflash: your chances of changing the morals of a newcomer are about the same.
This is not to say you can't have an open metropolitan society, just that there will be consequences and that most people who propose this society model is not willing to accept them - and they will discover that sooner or later.
In this regard the Japanesse model might be one of the most sustainable ones. People is more or less welcome to stay but you are expected to follow Japanesse rules to the letter while in public. It is fine if you bring European traditions but you are expected not to push them in public.
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