Subj : Re: Most memorable modern
To   : Snobsoft
From : Boraxman
Date : Mon May 05 2025 08:37 am

-=> Snobsoft wrote to Boraxman <=-

Sn> @MSGID: <[email protected]>
Sn> @REPLY: <[email protected]>
Sn>   Re: Re: Most memorable modern
Sn>   By: Boraxman to Snobsoft on
Sn> Sat May 03 2025 12:00 pm

>  Sn> Of course, people got annoyed
>  Sn> at
>  Sn> other BBS users back then too,
>  Sn> disagreed with their opinions.
>  Sn> But
>  Sn> afterward, they'd go have a
>  Sn> beer
>  Sn> together in real life. Today,
>  Sn> you're often instantly treated
>  Sn> as
>  Sn> an
>  Sn> enemy if you have the "wrong"
>  Sn> opinion. It's terrible.
>  Sn> Especially
>  Sn> when
>  Sn> it comes from the very people
>  Sn> claiming to be "saving
>  Sn> democracy."
>  Sn> In reality, their suppression
>  Sn> of
>  Sn> dissenting opinions is the real
>  Sn> threat to democracy.

>  Sn> They probably don't even
>  Sn> understand the essence of
>  Sn> democracy. Exactly ���� that
>  Sn> means
>  Sn> talking to one another,
>  Sn> listening
>  Sn> to different perspectives,
>  Sn> thinking them over ���� and not
>  Sn> canceling them. 

> Unfortuantely, if my theory is
> correct
> (and its holding up so far),
> this was going to happen, the
> government has little choice about
> it
> and no one can fix it.  It will get
> worse until there is a breaking
> point, at which things get UGLY.
Sn> That can happen. The problem is that the self-proclaimed elites here in
Sn> Germany are profoundly anti-democratic if they refuse to engage in the
Sn> competition of arguments and instead seriously want to ban Germany's
Sn> largest opposition party. Of course, using the "argument" that they are
Sn> Nazis. Although nowadays, the majority in Germany no longer takes the
Sn> loony lefties seriously. Today you're already a Nazi if you turn right
Sn> twice at a traffic light.

Sn> That has something to do with the likely pathological overcompensation
Sn> happening here in Germany, which I already mentioned in this thread.
Sn> There's even a joke about it - better not express your opinion too
Sn> clearly unless you have a bathrobe ready. The background: A
Sn> government-critical publication was supposed to be banned (something
Sn> one would normally only expect in dictatorships), and the images of the
Sn> house search immediately went viral - showing the publisher in a
Sn> bathrobe after being pulled out of bed at dawn by the police storm
Sn> troopers. Naturally, the mainstream media loyal to the system had
Sn> already been informed in advance, so they could capture "the blow for
Sn> democracy" (1984, anyone?).

Sn> BTW: I'm neither a fan of the aforementioned publication nor the party
Sn> in question. But that's not the point. In a democracy, sharp and even
Sn> polemical, unpopular criticism must be tolerated - if it cannot (see
Sn> above), it risks no longer being a democracy. Once again - the JD Vance
Sn> speech was on point.

Sn> BTW2: At least a court has ruled that the aforementioned scandalous ban
Sn> on an opposition publication was unlawful (pending the main trial).

I have been to Germany a couple of times in the past, and it was eye opening
indeed.  For an Australian, I got to see the future the liberal world order is
creating at a more advanced level.  It's no surprise to me that the opposition
party in question is rising.  None at all.  It is NOT their fault, nor the
fault
of the "Nazis" or whatever the system wants to blame.  It was evident this was
going to happen when I was first there in 2005, and no one is to blame except
the leadership of Germany, and if Western countries since WWII.  What Germany
is
doing is what the rest of the West is doing, except Germans are more
enthusiastic because they hold guilt as a virtue.  Germans maintain their
supremacy by emisserating themselves harder than anyone else.

People would do well to adopt a more materialist view of history, and of
politics.  The miscalculation I believe, is that we tend to think its simply a
battle of ideas.  One idea is promoted more than another, and the one which has
the best "marketing" wins.  IF a "bad" idea spreads, its only because people
are
spreading it.  That is the modern thinking.  If we just stop people spreading
it, then it will go away.  That is the thinking.  That is flat wrong.

There is a good chance that Europe will see mass expulsions again before the
end
of this century.  I may no see it in my lifetime, but our children will.  The
chance is not 100% of course, but it is a significant risk, significant enough
that I think it is prudent to begin to prepare for it.  Just as you would be
prepared for a bushfire in Australia if you live in a country town.  It may not
happen, but the chance is enough for you to be stupid not to.

The preparation alone is a big problem.  That alone will spark tension. The
party you are alluded to, is, in my view, preparing for the future.

The ruling elite have a sort of dim view of this, in that they can see storm
clouds, but now why they are coming and what drives them.  THAT is why they are
acting this way.  Things are spiralling out of control, and they think if they
can limits speech, prevent "Hate speech", police peoples thoughts, that will
stop the bad ideas and we'll return to normal. My position is it wont, nothing
can stop what is coming now, and the trend you've seen, where people are
becoming more and more polarised, will only continue until its logical
conclusion.   We need an overturning of our way of thinking since WWII, an
upending of our values, and more importantly, *of how we formulate our values*.

I can't see how you can possibly gain more freedom now.  Germans, and the West,
voted to take their own freedom away.  They supported, and PROTESTED FOR,
policies which would deny themselves freedom and take away democratic rights.
Even now, many, many Europeans and Westerners will fight for a material outcome
which would require themselves to lose freedom, privacy and the right to free
expression.

I say this because an "open society" cannot be free.  A "welcome culture"
cannot
be free.  You want a pluralistic society AND be free?  That is the error.
Germany is cooked.  Are you willing to exert a German identity, and put it as
supreme over the others?  No.  Well, welcome to hell.


... BoraxMan
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