Subj : Re: Most memorable modern
To   : Snobsoft
From : Boraxman
Date : Mon May 05 2025 08:10 am

-=> Snobsoft wrote to Arelor <=-

Sn> @MSGID: <[email protected]>
Sn> @REPLY: <[email protected]>
Sn>   Re: Re: Most memorable modern
Sn>   By: Arelor to Snobsoft on
Sn> Sat May 03 2025 05:59 pm

> I pretty much agree that so called
> advocates of freedom have become the
> ones who will slay it.


Sn> Looks like it. And do they really not notice? From my perspective, it's
Sn> so obvious what's happening - almost trivially clear.


> But what I really want to talk about
> is
> this:

>  > They probably don������������t
>  > even
>  > understand the essence of
>  > democracy.
>  > Exactly ������������
>  > that means talking to one
>  > another,
>  > listening to different
>  > perspectives,
>  > thinking them over ������������
>  > and not
>  > canceling them.

> Actually, the essence of democracy
> is
> to allow big groups of people to
> force
> their policies on small groups of
> people without having to kill them.

Sn> Yes, that's one way to see it. But then the question remains - what
Sn> would be better? But you do write more about that further down.


I do think Democracy's days are up.  Not numbered, but finished.  Of course we
still have a democracy, but not one which can propel us in the direction we
need
to go.  Too much emphasis is placed on "rights", but rights are not natural,
they are granted, and they are granted for a purpose.  Is our "right" to vote
serving the purpose it was granted for?

I would argue no.  As we only get to choose for a select few "approved"
candidates, it seems we have no more choice than a child who is given the false
dichotomy by their parents.  As we see in Europe, if anyone does sneak in who
falls outside the approved choices, they use non-democratic means to remove
them.

We just had an election in Australia, and some are painting this as a "Vote
against Trump".  I'm not sure if this makes sense, I hope its not true, but it
shows that the system has run out of moral currency.

> I am actually more impressed by the
> true original _organized_ democracy.
> It
> fell to the same essential defect,
> but
> it had the advantage of not being
> universal - you got to vote only if
> you
> met the minimum requisites. This
> basically meant the people who had
> to
> decide whether to go to war or not
> was
> the same people who would be funding
> the war effort from their pockets or
> who would be in the frontline.

Sn> That is very interesting. Then, quite concretely, "Panzer Toni" from
Sn> the German Greens (who have now become strictly conservative and
Sn> pro-armament) who is erratically claiming to support "Ukraine until
Sn> victory" should also head to the front himself. And I bet that he
Sn> wouldn't be so loud-mouthed anymore. So, a good idea. What I also don't
Sn> quite understand again: Anyone who can think clearly should know that
Sn> 1) Ukraine cannot win and 2) only a third world war would change that.
Sn> How delusional must one be to want to escalate such a conflict? Even
Sn> Biden was aware of the danger of a third world war, and Trump is now
Sn> doing the only right thing.

Sn> And he gets corresponding bashing from the above mentioned German
Sn> loudmouths, because for some reason they remain stuck in their absurd
Sn> fantasy world, where one can defeat a nuclear power without setting the
Sn> entire world on fire.

Sn> Of course, one must also ignore the
Sn> fact that, since 2014, half of the Ukrainian army had already initiated
Sn> constant bombardment against Russian Donbas minorities (around 30,000
Sn> deaths), meaning that the conflict actually began much earlier.
Sn> Naturally, the German propaganda media completely omit this. Likewise,
Sn> the continuous NATO expansion, and the ignorance of Russian protests
Sn> against it - including NATO bases in Ukraine.

Sn> And yes, attacking a country is a violation of international law, which
Sn> is what Russia did - something that superpowers often do. Look at the
Sn> USA in Vietnam, etc. But the world is not simply black and white as in
Sn> propaganda - and currently, for example, in the German mainstream
Sn> media, who should be ashamed of their one-sided reporting. 

I agree.  Universal suffrage was a bad idea in retrospect.  Is the purpose
representation, or the purpose to yield the best outcome?  I would argue the
two
goals are mutually exclusive.  We are in a situation now where the elderly can
vote to keep the next generation out of housing, and where people who have
contributed nothing, also can vote to take from others.  One must have had, and
still have, skin in the game, so to speak.

We can limit voting to those who have skin in the game, so to speak.  Ideally
voting on policy rather than leaders, so we get to vote whether to go to war,
with only those who would either fund it through their income and labour, and
those who may be required to fight voting for it.  That excludes the 80 year
old
retiree voting, which is fair.  But this can fail for other matters, such as
housing policy, where the 80 year old retiree who owns 3 houses can vote
against
policy designed to make housing more affordable, impoverishing the young who
don't own property.

I don't see a solution, and I don't see Democracy, at least one reliant on
people voting, working.  This is an enlightenment idea, based on the assumption
that humans work to reason.  This is proven untrue, and is more and more untrue
by the day as we find more and more ways to manipulate, brainwash, gaslight and
mislead people.

Polybius identified the cycles civlisation goes through, and he observed that
democracy degenerates and leads to strongman politics.  We should bite the
bullet perhaps, and accept this change, rather than carry on the farce for
longer.

After all, I don't care about "choosing" who represents me.  I don't have a
choice as none of the two major parties represent anything CLOSE to what I
want.
Id rather a monarchy which delivered an actual future for me.  I want a good
future, not the illusion of control.


... BoraxMan
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